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A47820 Citt and Bumpkin in a dialogue over a pot of ale concerning matters of religion and government L'Estrange, Roger, Sir, 1616-1704. 1680 (1680) Wing L1216; ESTC R15090 33,146 42

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Cause if you can but produce any One Material Point which he hath either Falsify'd Palliated or Omitted in the whole Proceeding But to be plain with you Citt One of the Authours of your Preface is a Common setter a Forger of Hands a little spy upon the Swan in Fishstreet a Hackny Sollicitor against both Church and State You know this to be true Citt and that I do not speak upon Guess so that Calumny and False Witnessing is the best part of that Authours Trade And then the pretended History is a direct Arraignment of the Government He takes up the King and Council Pag. 381. reflects upon the Iudges in the very Contents and elsewhere he descants upon the Duke of York in opposition to the express sense and declaration of the Bench Pag. 145. and has the confidence yet to Dedicate this Gally-mawfry of audacious slanders to the Two Houses of Parliament There is little more in the whole then what has been eaten and spew'd up again Thirty times over and the intire work is only a Medly of Rags and Solaecisms pick'd up out of Rubbish and most suitably put together Citt. You may take his part as ye please But there 's a Famous Lecturer charg'd him Publiquely for Popery in his Answer to the Appeal and for falling upon Dr. Lloyd True He did so but at the same time that Lecturer found no fault with the Appeal it self and the best on 't is his Tongue 's no more a slander then his Pen And whoever reads what he has written concerning the Late King and the Episcopal Church will think never the worse of L'Estrange for what he says Now for the Reverend Dean of Bangor I dare say he never spake or thought of him but with Veneration Let me see the book Look ye here 't is pag. 18. in L'Estrange's Impression and 't is pag. 15. in this and here 's the Point Their Loyalty and Good service paid to the King says the Appealer speaking of the Papists was meerly in their own Defence Now see L'Estrange's Reply upon it If it lies says he as a Reproach upon them that they did not serve the King out of Loyalty that which they did was yet better then not serving him at all and better in a Higher degree still then Fighting against him And a little after It is worth the Observation that not a man drew his Sword in the opposite Cause who was not a Known Separatist and that on the Other side not one Schismatick ever struck stroke in the Kings Quarrell And now for your Notes upon his Answer they are so silly that it were Ridiculous to Reply upon 'um who knows says he but the Regicides were Papists in disguise pag. 19. And a deal of such senselesse stuff enough to turn a bodies Stomach And if you 'd inform your self of his Malice look ye here pag. 4. p. 9. and p. 33. how he Palliates if not Justifies the Late Rebellion the Murther of the Arch-Bishop of St. Andrews and the drawing of the Sword against the King Briefly 't is an Insipid Bawling piece of Foolery from One end to the Other And it is not but that I highly approve of your Zeal for the Discovery of the Plot and Suppressing of Popery but we are not yet to Trample upon Laws and Publique Orders for the attaining even of those Glorious ends But now I think on 't deal freely with me did you really go to the Registers ye spake of to furnish Names for your Subscriptions Citt. No That was but a Flourish but all the Rest we Literally did True Are not you Conscious to your selves of your Iniquities who made You a Commissioner for the Town or You for the Country But we are like to have a fine business of it when the Dreggs of the People set up for the Representatives of the Nation to the Dishonour of the most Considerable and Sober part of the Kingdome Pre'thee Bumpkin with thy Poles and Baltiques how shouldst thou come to understand the Ballance of Empires who are Delinquents and who not the Right of Bishops Votes And You forsooth are to Teach the King when to call a Parliament and when to let it alone And are not you a fine Fool i' the mean time to Drudg fot the Faction that Sets ye on to be afterwards made a slave for your pains And then for You Citt with your Mouldy Records your Co-ordinate Estates and your Sovereign Power of the People Do not I know all your Fallacies your Shifts and Hiding-holes There 's not one step you set but I can trace you in 't You have your Spies upon all Libraries as well as Conversations your Agents for the procuring of old Manuscripts and Records and for the Falsifying of New ones to make them look like Old Ones Nay the Papers of State themselves had much ado to scape ye Those that assert the Iust Rights of the Crown you either Bury or Conceal only Publishing the Presidents of Seditious Times in Vindication of such Principles Citt. I must confess I take the Government to be Co-ordinate and the King One of the Three Estates with submission to be better inform'd True If it be so how comes it that the House of Commons even in their most Popular seasons have still own'd the Crown of England to be Imperial How comes it that all our Laws are call'd the Kings Laws all our Courts of Iustice his Majesties Courts and all Publick Causes try'd in the Kings Name and by the Authority of his Majesty Citt. But have not the Two Houses their share in the Legislative Power True You must distinguish betwixt the Consent and the Sanction the Preparatory Part is Their's the Stamp is the Kings The Two Houses Consent to a Bill It is only a Bill when it is presented and it remains yet a Bill even when the King has Consented to it and in this Common Consent in Order to a Law the Two Houses may be said to share with his Majesty But then the Fiat that superinduces an Authority and is Only and Properly the Act of Legislation is singly in the King So that though they share in the Consent they have no pretence at all to the Sanction which is an Act of Authority the other but of Agreement And yet again admitting your Coordination First every King runs the hazzard of his Crown upon every Parliament he calls For That Third Estate lies at the Mercy of the Other Two And further 't is a kinde of Ringing the Changes with the Government the King and Lords shall be Uppermost One day the King and Commons Another and the Lords and Commons the Third For in this Scale of Constitution whatsoever the One will not the Other Two may Citt. Well but Ours is a MIXT Government and we are a Free People Tru. If ours be a Mixt Government so as to any Popular Participation of Power with the King then it
Duell he 's oblig'd to 't by the Profession of a Sword-man without Formalizing upon the Cause There 's a Conscience of Profession even among the Banditi themselves What is it but the Profession of Presbytery that makes the whole Party oppose Episcopacy as the Independents do Presbytery the Republicans Monarchy and the like Bum. Now I thought that there might have been Conscience of State as well as of Profession in These Cases Citt. Thou sayst very well Bumpkin and so there is and of Profit too and it was much the same Case too throughout the Circle of our Late Revolutions when we Swore and Vow'd from the Oaths of Allegiance and Canonical Obedience to the Protestation the Solemn League and Covenant the Engagement the Negative Oath the Oath of Abjuration and so till we swore round into the Oath of Allegiance again Bum. What do you mean now by your Generall Profession Citt. I mean the Subordination of a Partiall to a Generall of a Private Profession to a Publick as thou seest in the Late Times Bumpkin how strictly the Divided Reformers kept themselves to This Rule so long as the Common Enemy was upon his Legs Bum. But who do you mean by the Common Enemy Citt. I mean the Court and the Church-Party So long I say all our Brethren of the Separation joyn'd as one man against that Inordinate Power and herein we were Conscienciously True to our General Profession but so soon as ever we had subdu'd that Popish and Tyrannicall Interest through the Conscience of our General Profession we then consulted our Particular and every man did Conscienciously labour for the Establishment of his own way But now we come to the great Nicety of all that is to say the Conscience of making a Conscience of using any Conscience at all There 's a Riddle for ye Bumpkin Bum. I must confess I do not understand one Bitt on 't Citt. That 's for want of a Discerning Spirit Bumpkin What does Conscience signifie to the Saints that are deliver'd from the Fetters of Morall Obligations by so many Extraordinary and Over-ruling Priviledges which are granted in a peculiar manner to the People of the Lord What 's he the better or the worse for keeping or for breaking the Ten Commandments that lies under the Predestinarian Fate of an Unchangeable Necessity and Decree What needs he care for any other Guide that carries within himself an Infallible Light Or He for any Rule at all that cannot sin For the same thing may be a sin in another man which in Him is None Bum. Really This is admirable So that we that are the Elect are bound up by no Laws at all either of God or of Man Citt. Why look you now for that we Are and we are Not. If it so happens that the Inward and Invisible Spirit move us to do the same thing which the Outward and Visible Law requires of us in That Case we are Bound but so as to the Spirit not to the Law and therefore we are bid to stand fast in our Christian Liberty Bum. That 's extreamly well said for if We Christians should be Shackled with Human Laws which can only reach the Outward Man then are the Heritage of the Lord in no better Condition then the Wicked and the Heathen Citt. Oh! th' art infinitely in the Right for if it were not for this Christian Liberty we could never have Iustify'd our Selves in our Late Transactions the Designe of Overturning the Government had been Treason taking up Arms against the King Rebellion Dividing from the Communion of the Church had been Schism appropriating the Church Plate and Revenues to Private Uses had been Sacriledge Entring upon Sequester'd Livings had been Oppression taking away mens Estates had been Robbery Imprisoning of their Persons had been Tyranny using the name of God to all This would have been Hypocrisy forcing of Contradictory Oaths had been Impiety and Shedding the Blood both of the King and his People had been Murther And all This would have appear'd so to be if the Cause had come to be Try'd by the Known Laws either of God or of Man Bum. Make us thankfull now What a blessed State are we in that Walk up to our Calling in Simplicity and Truth whose Yea is Yea and whose Nay is Nay 'T is a strange way thou hast Citt of making things out to a man Thou wert saying but now that the same thing may be a Sin in One Man and not in Another I 'm thinking now of the Jesuites Citt. Oh That 's a Iugling Equivocating Hellish sort of People 't is a thousand pitties that they 're suffer'd to live upon the Earth They value an Oath no more then they do a Rush. Those are the Heads of the Plot now upon the Life of the King the Protestant Religion and the Subversion of the Government Bum. Ay Ay Citt they 're a damn'd Generation of Hell-hounds But as I was thinking just now we have so many things among Us like some things among Them that I have been run down some times allmost as if We our selves were Jesuites though I know there 's as much difference as betwixt Light and Darknesse and for my part I defie them as I do the Devill But Citt thou hast so wonderfull a way of making matters plain I 'de give any thing in the world thou'dst but teach me what to say in some Cases when I 'm put to 't One told me 'tother day You are rather worse then the Iesuites says he for when They break an Oath they have some mental Reservation or other for a Come-off But You Swallow your Perjuryes just as Cormorants do Eeles an Oath 's no sooner In at One End then Out at t'other Citt. Let your Answer be This Bumpkin That the Law-maker is Master of his own Laws and that the Spirits dictating of a New Law is the Superseding of an Old one Bum. These are hard words Citt but he told me further don't You Justifie King-Killing says he as well as the Iesuits Only They do 't with Pistol Dagger and Poyson and You come with Your Horse Foot and Cannon They proceed by Excomunicating and Deposing by dissolving the Character first and then destroying the Person and just so did You. First ye Depos'd the King and Then ye Beheaded Charles Stuart And then you need never go to Rome for a Pardon when every man among you is his own Pope Citt. Now your Answer must be This That we had First the Warrant for what we did of an Extraordinary Dispensation as appear'd in the providence of our Successes Secondly we had the Laws of Necessity and Self-preservation to Support us And Thirdly the Government being Coordinate and the King only One of the Three Estates any Two of the Three might deal with the Third as They thought Fit Beside the Ultimate Soveraignty of the People over and above And now take notice that the same Argument holds in the
stitch and so we drew our own necks out of the Collar and left the Countries in the Lurch Bum. Nay that 's the Truth on 't Citt We stood all gaping for London to lead the way Citt. The great work that we look't upon was the gaining of a well-affected Common-Councill which we secur'd upon the Election with all the skill and watchfullness imaginable Bum. And that was a huge point Citt but how were ye able to compasse it Citt. Why we had no more to do then to mark those that we knew were not for our turns either as Courtiers or Loose-livers or half-Protestants and their business was done Bum. We went the same way to work too in the Country at all our Elections for it is a Lawfull Policy you know to lessen the Reputation of an Enemy Citt. Nay we went further still and set a Report a foot upon the Exchange and all the Coffee-houses and Publique Houses thereabouts which held from Change-time till the very Rising of the Common-Councill when the Petition was laid aside that past so currant that no mortall doubted the Truth on 't Bum. But you ha' not told me what that Report was yet Citt It was this that the King had sent a Message to the City to let them understand that he took notice how much they stood affected to the Petition that he expected they would proceed upon it and that his Majesty was ready to give them a gracious Answer Bum. But was this fair dealing Brother Citt. Did not Abraham say of Sarah She 's my Sister Bum. Well thou' rt a heavenly man Citt but come to the Miscarriage it self Citt. After as Hopefull a Choice as ever was made we procur'd a Common-Councill where the Petition was put to the Vote and it was carry'd in the Commons by two Voyces for the presenting it and by Fourteen or Fifteen Votes in the Court of Aldermen on the Negative Bum. So that your Damn'd Aldermen and our Damn'd Justices have ruin'd us both in City and Country Citt. Hang'um they are most of them Church-Papists but we should have dealt well enough with them if it had not been for that confounded Act for Regulating Corporations Bum. Prethee let me understand that for I know nothing on 't Citt. Take notice then that this Devillish Statute has provided that no man shall serve as a Common-Councell man but upon condition of taking three Oaths and subscribing one Declaration therein mention'd and having taken the Sacrament of the Lords Supper according to the Rites of the Church of England within one year next before his Election Now it so fell out that what with this Act and a Court-Letter for putting it in Execution a matter of thirty of our Friends were put by as not duly qualify'd And upon this Pinch we lost it Nay let me tell ye as a friend there were at least twenty or thirty of the rest too that would hardly have past Muster Bum. But is this certain Citt. Why I am now in my Element Bumkin for thou know'st my Education has been toward the Law Bum. This was a Plaguy jobb Citt but we must look better to our Hitts next bout Citt. Nay my life for thine we 'll have another touch for 't yet But tell me in short how came you off with your Petition in the Country Bum. It went on for a good while prettily well at the Quarter-Sessions till at last one Cross-grain'd Curr there upon the Bench claw'd us all away to the Devill and get an Order of Court against it while you would say what 's this Citt. But what did he say Bum. Oh there was a great deal of stuff on 't the King and the Judges he said had declared it to be Seditious and so they were to take it That they sat there to keep the Kings Peace not to countenance the Breaking of it and then says he these fellows don't know what they would have One Petitions for Chalk and Another for Cheefe the Petition was at first for the meeting of the Parliament and then they came to Twit the King with his Coronation-Oath and then Delinquents must be brought to Punishment and then the Parliament was to Sit as long as they pleas'd and at last every man must be mark'd for a Common Enemy that would not Subscribe it So that first they would have the Parliament Sit and then they 'd cut'um out their work and in fine it was little other then a Petition against those that would not Petition He said there were Ill practices in the getting of hands and so they threw out the Petition and order'd an Enquiry into the Abuses Citt. Well there 's no remedy but Patience Bum. I had need of Patience I 'm sure for they 're Examining the Hands allready as hard as they can drive You 'l see me in the Gazette next Thursday as sure as a Gun Citt. Why then we must play the Domestique against him next Fryday Bum. Nay I 'm sure to be trounc'd for 't to some tune if I be taken Citt. Pre'thee what art affraid of There 's no Treason in getting hands to a Petition man Bum. No that 's true but I have put in such a Lurry of Dog-Rogues they cry they 're defam'd with a Fox they 'le have their remedy and they make such a Bawling Citt. Come come set thy heart at rest and know that in this City th' art in the very Sanctuary of the Well-affected But 't is good however to prepare for the worst and the best as they say will help its self But art thou really afraid of being taken Bum. And so would you be too if you were in my condition without a penny or a friend in the world to help ye Citt. Thou art two great Owls Bumkin in a very few words First thou hast great friends and do'st not know no't and Secondly thou do'st not understand the Blessing of having neither Friends nor Money In one word I 'll see thee provided for and in the mean time give me thy answer to a few questions I make no doubt but they that put thee into this Trust and Employment of helping on the Petition are men of Estate and men well-inclin'd to the Publique Cause Bum. O their Landlords and Masters are men of huge Estates but 't is the Tenants and the Stewards that I have to do withall But then do you mark me those people are all in all with their Masters Citt. I suppose you may be known to the Landlords and Masters themselves too Do they ever take any notice of you Bum. Yes yes I go often to their Houses man and they speak mighty kindly to me and there 's nothing but Honest Obadiah and Good Obadiah at every turn and then the Men take me into the Kitchin or into the Cellar or so And let me tell you Citt if it had not been for them once I had been plaguyly paid off in the Spirituall Court upon a
certain Occasion Citt. That 's a very good sign of Affection to the Cause as I told thee and it would be never the worse if they were under a Cloud at Court for an Honest Revenge ye know goes a great way with a tender Conscience Bum. I have hear'd some Inkling that way but we 'le scatter no words Citt. They never speak any thing to you in private do they As of Grievances I mean Religion the Liberty of the Subject and such like Bum. No no but they talk as other people do of the Plot and the Jesuits and Popery and the French King and so Citt. And what is the reason now do ye think that you are not receiv'd into their Bed-Chambers their Closets into their Arms and into their very Hearts as well as some other people as we kaow Bum. Alas what should they do with me I 'm not a man fit to keep them Company Citt. Why then Honest Bumpkin here 's a Golden Sentence for thee Be Taken Sifted Imprison'd Pillory'd and stand true to thy Principles and th' art company for the best Lord in Christendom They I never dare to trust thee till th' art Iayl and Pilloryproof and the bringing of thee into a Jayl would be a greater kindness then the fetching of Another man Out Bum. Prethee Cit tell me one thing by the way hast thou ever made Tryal of this Experiment thy self Citt. To tell thee as a friend I have try'd it and I 'm the best part of a thousand pound the better for 't 'T is certainly the high way to preferment Bum. And yet for all this Citt I have no minde in the World to be taken Citt. And that 's because th' art an arrant buzzard the Lord deliver me from a fellow that has neither Mony nor Friends and yet 's afraid of being Taken Why 't is the very making of man a mans Fortune to be Taken How many men are there that give mony to be Taken and make a Trade on 't Nay happy is the man that can but get any body to Take him Why I tell ye there are people that will quarrel for 't and make Friends to be Taken 'T is a common thing in Paris for a man in One six Months to start out of a Friendless and Monyless condition into an Equipage of Lacquays and Coaches and all this by nicking the blessed Opportunities of being discreetly Taken Bum. I have heard indeed of a man that set fire to one Old House and got as much Mony by a Brief for 't as built him two New ones Citt. Have not I my self heard it cast in a fellows Teeth I was the making of you Sirrah thoughy ' are so high now a body must not speak to you You had never been Taken and clapt up Sirrah but for me Bum. Father what Simpletons we Country-folks are to you Citizens Citt. Now put the case Bumpkin that you were Taken Examin'd and Committed provided you stand to your Tackle y' are a Made man already but if you shrink in the wetting y' are lost Bum. Pray'e what do you mean by standing to my Tackle Citt. You must be sure to keep your self upon a Guard when y' are before the Iustice and not to be either wheedled or frighten'd into any Discovery for they 'le be trying a thousand Tricks with you Bum. But may I deny any thing that 's charg'd upon me point-blank if I be guilty of it Citt. Yes in the case of self-preservation you may but you must be sure then that no body can disprove you for if it be known 't is a Scandall and no longer Lawfull Your best way will be not to answer any Questions against your self Bum. But now you have brought me into a Goal you would do well to tell me how I shall get out again Citt. Why before you turn your self thrice in your Kennell if Baylable Y' are out again upon a Habeas Corpus But in the mean time the Town rings of your Commitment the Cause of it and how bravely you carry'd it upon your Examination all which shall be Reported to your Advantage and by this time y' are Celebrated for the Peoples Martyr And now come in the Bottles the Cold-Pies and the Guynnies But you must lay your finger upon your Mouth and keep all as close as if the Fayries had brought it Bum. Pre thee Citt were thou ever bound Prentice to a Statesman Citt. No not altogether so neither but I serv'd a Conveninent time in two of his Majesties Houses and there I learnt My Politiques that is to say in Newgate and the Gate-house Two schools says one that send more wise men into the World then the four Inns of Court Now let your suffering be what it will the Merit of it will be rated according to the Difficulty and hazzard of the Encounter For there 's a great difference betwixt the Venture of a Pillory and of a Gibbet But in what case soever if you stand fast and keep your Tongue in your head you shall want neither Mony nor Law nor Countenance nor Friends in the Court nor Friends in the Iury. Bum. Hold hold Citt what if all my great Friends should deceive me at last Citt. They 'le never dare to do that for fear you should deceive them I have found the Experiment of it my self and every Term yields us fresh Instances of people that make their Fortunes in a trice by a generous contempt of Principalities and Powers Bum. Thou' rt a brave fellow Citt but pre'thee what may thy Employment be at present if a body may ask thee Citt. I am at this present Bumpkin under the Rose a Secretary-Extraordinary to one of the Grand Committees I told thee of and my business is to draw up Impeachments Informations Articles to lick over now and then a Narrative and to deal with the Mercuries to publish nothing against the Interest of that Party and in fine there 's hardly any thing stirs but I have a finger in 't Mine is a business I can tell you that brings in Money Bum. I make no doubt on 't Citt But could ye put me in a way to get a little money too Citt. We 'l talk of that presently You may think perhaps now the City-Petition's blown off that our Committee will have nothing to do But I do assure you businesse comes in so fast upon us that I shall never be able to go through it without an Assistant and if I find you fit for 't you shall be the man Nay hold let Me speak First do you continue the use of your Short-hand Bum. Yes I do and I have mended my Bastard-Secretary very much since you saw it Citt. Will you be Iust Diligent and Secret Bum. I 'le give you what security you 'le ask for my Truth and Diligence and for my Secrecy I could almost forget to speak Citt. That Figure pleases me but I must shrift you further How stands your appetite to