Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	court_n	ecclesiastical_a	king_n	2,936	5	4.6101	4	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A11509	An apology, or, apologiticall answere, made by Father Paule a Venetian, of the order of Serui, vnto the exceptions and obiections of Cardinall Bellarmine, against certaine treatises and resolutions of Iohn Gerson, concerning the force and validitie of excommunication. First published in Italian, and now translated into English. Seene and allowed by publicke authoritie; Apologia per le oppositioni fatte dall' illustrissimo & reverendissimo signor cardinale Bellarminio alli trattati, et risolutioni di Gio. Gersone. English	Sarpi, Paolo, 1552-1623.	1607 (1607)	STC 21757; ESTC S116732	122,825	141

And as these consequences are necessarily deduced from this doctrine so it were well that they should be throughly with good insight considered of by them to whome indeede they belong But the true Christian doctrine and the common practise which we daily see auoids all these absurdities subiecting all Crimes and offences vnto the temporall Iurisdiction in foro mundano and to the ecclesiasticall in foro animae wherein how men ought to proceede wee can not bee better taught then by the example of Christ and his holy Apostles who neuer pretended to haue or exercise any temporall coertion or coactiue authority ouer mens sinnes But the Author goeth on and inueyeth against the translator not only in the point concerning the lawes but addeth further that his holinesse is not offended with the common wealth of Venice for punishing their subiects that offend but for presuming to lay hands vpon ecclesiasticall persons who are not subiect to any superior but the ecclesiasticall and he concludeth that whosoeuer will consider of the matter without passion shall finde that the Pope goeth not about to depriue that common wealth of any other liberty but the liberty to doe euill which is not giuen of God but of the Diuell Here first he layeth to the translators charge that wherein hee is not faulty at all yet hath he truly cited the words of the translator namely that the Popes censure was denounced vpon Christmas day But vpon that day there was no breefe of the Popes presented but that which concerned onely the two lawes That neither Churches should be built nor lands conueyed by laymen to ecclesiasticall persons without leaue of the State And that other censure for iudging and punishing of certaine Churchmen delinquents came not out till Februarie And therfore could not be mentioned by the translator writing as he doth cōcerning a report which was spread abroad of the censures denounced vpon Christmas day Surely a person of grauity ought not to stirre enuy against an other man but vpon true grounds But to the matter it selfe The ecclesiasticall persons offending against a lawe are not subiect to punishment he onely saith it but prooues it not If wee finde hereafter that he goeth about to prooue it we will answere him as shall be meete for the defence of the truth But in the meane time I may not deferre to say what is fit to be said concerning that proposition of his Ecclesiasticall persons saith he are not subiect to any but their spirituall superior This very proposition is produced as a speciall obiection against Cardinall Bellarmine by a certaine Frenchman who condems it as tending onely to sedition And Lewes Richehomme the prouinciall of the Iesuites in an Apology of his directed vnto the King of Fraunce answeres in the Cardinals behalfe in the 33. Chapter that hee doth not affirme this position but onely in causes meerely sacred as of faith religion Sacraments c. and that it was not his meaning to taxe or reprooue the custome of France where the secular magistrate vseth to iudge of crimes which are specially reserued to the ecclesiasticall courts And the same prouinciall turning his speech afterwards to the King say thus Episcopi Archiepiscopi Cardinales generalesque praepositi Religiosorum ordinum in totò sacr● ordine excelsissimi omnium atque immunissimi primas tenent Propterea ne tamen aut tuae maiestati subiecti vel esse vel dici aspernantur quod fiat immune● subiectique pontifici Romano And a little after hauing said that they acknowledge him for their King he goeth on Quod quomodo sane praestandum 〈◊〉 constituerent nisi se pari iure cum alijs atque sub tuo imperio esse faterentur Parentemne potest Dauidem suus Salomon compellare nec se eius tamen filium ea compellatione dicere And certainly Cardinall Bellarmine in his first Booke de Clericis Cap. 28. And the second conclusion with the reason he renders for it saith not by way of argument or question but definitiuely that ecclesiasticall persons are subiect to secular Princes But because this word subditi is not there so formally expressed I thought better to alleage one of his owne cōpany that in expresse and direct termes hath said it not only in that place before cited but repeats it also in the 36. chapter I forbeare to vouch S. Gregorie in his epistle mentioned before where he calls himselfe the subiect slaue or seruant of the Emperor And brings in God speaking thus vnto him Sacerdotes meos tuae manui cōmiisi which manner of speech I finde to be ordinary with the holy Fathers frequent in the Epistles of the Anciēt Popes And here me thinks a man might wel reply vpon the Author that this saying of his that the Pope went not about to debarre the state of Venice of any other liberty but to do euill may more truly be applied to them and it may be said that the state of Venice in punishing Church-men that offend do not any thing against the ecclesiasticall liberty nor go about to take any other liberty frō them but liberty to doe euill for we be all agreed in this That ecclesiasticall persons breaking a law do therein sinne But in the other point we do not agree that the common wealth hath sinned in correcting them I am prone to beleeue that the Author beeing so exceedingly well learned as hee is had a good meaning when hee saide that the libertye to doe euill is not giuen by GOD but by the Diuell Yet those wordes so deliuered are not Catholicke for by libertie to doo euill is vnderstood free-will which is naturall and of God and this will bee denied by none but Manicheus who makes the Diuell Author of it But I doe not denie as I said but the Author might haue a good meaning in it Yet a good meaning is scarse to be allowed for an excuse vnto him that is so seuere and rigorous a Censor of other men Especially considering what Saint Hierome saith ex verbis male prolatis incurritur haeresis The Author proceedes and by a comparison drawne from secular Princes from a sheepheard and a Pilot he concludes that the Pope Head of Christendome ought not to allow any liberty vnto Princes to make lawes that be preiudiciall to the Church the saluation of mens souls and whereby they procure damnation both to themselues and others These are goodly words at the first sight and such as are able to stagger a simple man by and by and to make him thinke that the author hath all right and reason on his side But when we shall examine and sift them we shall finde them to containe nothing but ambiguities and to conclude with the like Paralogisme that the rest haue done For first what meaneth he by the Church If the same which the holy Scripture meaneth and which the word it selfe doth properly signifie to wit the company of the faithfull it is verie true that he

giue him the seat c. and hee shall raigne for euer This is that you chose not me but I chose you This is the kingdome in the Apocalips and thou hast made vs to our God a kingdom This Christ is the Father of the family who is owner of it and it his child and seruant Which for that it is composed of visible men the Father himselfe would that it should bee gouerned also by a man visible and hath appointed the authority which hee should haue and instituted one of them before the Church was founded but for the residue of time after it was founded hath left on earth the power to choose a successour Now with this doctrine which I am assured the author will admit yea rather will say that without it no man is Catholique the reason is answered that the Church is not a commonwealth as Venice or as Geneua which giue as much authority as themselues please to their Duke nor a kingdom which may chaunge the manner of gouerning it neither inuisibly nor visibly because that Christ hath prescribed the manner much lesse is it such a kingdom as France which hath a bloud royall where the Kings succeede by birth neither as some other by testament but as touching the inward gouernment and meerely spirituall it is not like vnto any because it hath a perpetuall and immortall King In the visible gouernment it hath a Minister as concerning his authority instituted by Christ and vndepending of the Church as concerning the application of the authority to the person electiue and depending of it Wherefore when he alledgeth and I am constituted a King by him Our Lord God shall giue him you chose not me Thou hast made vs to our God a kingdome All these places and such like others are meant of the inuisible kingdom the spirituall interior where the Pope hath no gouernment at all but onely the Sauiour which knoweth the hearts and can inflowe into them and bestow on them the graces and guifts whereby they are made Citizens of the heauenly Ierusalem Christ also is that Father of the family which depēds not of it The high Bishop is a seruant ●et ouer the family by the Fathers therof in respect of the authority but which the family it selfe hath placed ouer it selfe in respect of the election of the person So as touching the authority it is from Christ as touching the application it is from the Church But the Author maketh the Church a family depending of the Father whom he acknowledgeth to be Christ and this beeing setled hee concludeth that the Father doth not depend of the family nor hath his authority from it Therefore the Pope cannot be subiect to the Church and passeth frō the father of the family which is Christ to the steward elected by the family it selfe which is the Pope Let him stand firme in the similitude for he shal neuer find in the Gospell that any other is called father of the family but God the father or else Christ his Son by nature The minister is a seruant it is not fit to attribute the proprietie of God to another For which cause the example serues meruailously for Gerson as also the example which the author brings of a Vice-roy is much for the same purpose If a King of France as S Lewis the 9. should go to the conquest of the holy land shold say to the kingdome I leaue you my cosin for Viceroy with authority to administer iustice but not to make lawes not to assemble the states c. and in case he happen to faile choose ye another in his place with the same authority the authority of the elected should be from the King and master the person which the kingdome should choose should be subiect to the kingdom This is that which Gerson teacheth throughout all his works where it is seene that verily the force of the reason concludeth for him Out of the things abouesaid I will not conclude that the opinion of Gerson in this point of the supreame power Ecclesiastical either is true or is false but onely that the authors conclusion that Gerson is deceiued and that he is deceiued that doth follow him and goeth contrary to the doctrine of the holy scriptures of the sacred Councels and of manifest reason hath need of other proofes then those abouesaide The Author proceedeth Bellarmine And if he should say that which Gerson himselfe wont to say that it is written in Saint Mathew in the 18. chapter tell the Church And if hee will not heare the Church let him bee to thee as the Heathen and the Publican I would answere that in that place by the Church is ment the Prelate who is the head of the Church and so doth Saint Iohn Chrysostom expound it Homilia 61. in Mathew and Pope Innocent 3. cap. Nouit de iudiciis and so doth the practize of the vniuersall Church of all the world and of all times declare that he who will denounce a sinner to the Church and obserue this precept doth not assemble a Councell but hath recourse to the Bishop or to his vicar It is not sufficient to the Author to haue disputed with Gerson but he also giues solution to his reasons But in this place of many which Gerson bringeth and deduceth Frier Paolo the author contenteth himselfe to produce one onely and to dissolue it And this is taken from the authority of Saint Mathew tell the Church vnto which hee answereth the Church that is the Prelate and of this exposition hee maketh Chrysostome the author although the Parisians say that Chrysostom doth not say so but it seemes when a thing is accustomed to bee alleadged euery man alleadgeth it without once viewing it Chrysostome expoundeth tell the Church namely the Bishoppes and Praefidents This is that which Gerson saith to the Church representatiuely because it being not possible to assemble the whole it be comes represented by the assembly of Bishops and Praesidents And therefore they adde that vnder the name of the Church their cannot bee ment one person For in vaine should that ensue If two of you shall consent vpon earth concerning euery thing whatsoeuer they shall aske it shall bee done to them of my Father which is in heauen For where there bee two or three gathered in my name there am I in the midst of them And for confirmation of this sense they bring that Saint Paul who receiued the information against the incestuous there is plainely heard fornication among you c. It followeth I indeede absent in body but present in spirit haue already iudged as present him that hath so doone in the name of our Lord Iesus Christ you beeing gathered together and my spirit with the vertue of our Lord Iesus to deliuer such an one to Satan Where they note that Saint Paul who was then in Philippi did not write by his Briefe I excomunicate such an one but wrote to the Church that beeing