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A60360 The predestinated thief A dialogue betwixt a rigid Calvinian preacher and a condemned malefactor. In which is not onely represented how the Calvinistical opinion occasions the perpetration of wickedness and impieties; but moreover how it doth impede and hinder, nay almost impossibilitate the reducing of a sinner to emendation and repentance. Slatius, Henry, 1585-1623. 1658 (1658) Wing S3982A; ESTC R220063 24,121 82

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power of obeying in this faln corrupted condition God requires faith of all to whom the Word is preached but will not give faith to all to whom it is revealed Pr. You seem to me to have been alwayes of this opinion Th. I was not so wedded to this opinion till such thoughts as these ran alwayes in my minde that I was really of the number of the Elect. Pr. Do not presume rashly you too confidently pronounce your self Elect when from your Childhood you have been such a rakehell and have not to this day mended your course these are but small fruits or signs of your Election Th. O good Sir you must know that all z Calv. in Instit lib. 3. c. 24. dist 10. the Elect are not called so soon as born nor all at one and the same time nay before they are congregated to the Supreme Pastor they wander in the common desert of this world in sin and are neither known to others or themselves to be elected to life till the peculiar mercy of God keep and guide them a Musc loc com de Fide c. 7. Neither is God bound to any time when or persons which to call so that 't is for no one to doubt when he shall be call'd for no sin is so great as to ●inder when heaven calls Whence it appears clear as Noon-day I am not presently to despair if I have not lived so unblameably as you would have me Pr. Yet it was your duty as the Apostle sayes by good works to make your salvation sure Th. How came you to speak so unadvisedly Sir does our Election depend on good works I 'll prove it does not and further I am perswaded that the Elect may fall b Zanch. in M●scel p. 329. into great and hainous sins as Adultery Murther nay sometimes into such errours by which sometimes partly sometimes wholly the very foundation of Salvation is turned topfie-turvy or otherwise against their Conscience to sin foully and grievously c Ruard Acron Explic. Catech. qu. 53. fol. 137. against any of the Commandments of God but all these things hinder little or nothing For d Wilhel Teeling in dial de statu hom Christi pag. 44. God will not damn any of the elect though they sin because the foundation of their safety lies in his eternal act of their election neither can a thousand nay the sins of the whole world nor all the Devils in Hell destroy one of the Elect Our sins may harden our hearts weaken our faith but cannot quite destroy it nor extinguish the Spirit of God utterly So that God damns none for their sins whom he has adopted in Christ Pr. What then you did not fear to be damned Th. No not I a jot for who are e Toss de Praedest cap. 3. Zanch. de nat Dei l. 7. q. 1. predestinated cannot be cast off for ever because once elected by the immutable Decree of God and again because whom Christ loves he loves unto the end Pr. But you ought to have turn'd and conform'd your self according to the will of God that you might have obtained the remission of your sins Th. For any thing I understand you have even the same conception of f Smout in Script consent fol. 12. the New Covenant as of the Old which was placed in the condition of Works as if we would constantly believe and do this and thus God would again do for us so and so c. which rule is diametrically opposite to the New Covenant conditions g Id. fol. 31. God makes a New Covenant with us and promises us not onely when we are without any but have strayed a long way from the condition whilst we wallow in the midst of sin h Id. fol. 46. Behold God forgiveth sin before he renews the heart and does both these before we have done any good nay whilst we are in our sins and do profane his Name Hence 't is abundantly evident i Gesel probat fol. 33. that God does prosecute all his Elect with a singular eternal gracious and saving love before they believe or repent For truly as the Synod of Dort k Acta Synodi cap. 1. Art 9. sayes Election is made not from any foreseen faith obedience fanctity or any other good quality or disposition as a pre-requisite cause or condition in us that we should be thus elected but are chosen to faith and obedience so that Election is the cause from whence all good works flow and from hence faith holiness all spiritual gifts flow and at last life it self as the fruit and effect meerly of it Pr. Whither do you intend to protract this Dispute hold your tongue and leave this disputing think with your self how far the night is spent and how nigh your life is to its period and be more sollicitous how you may be saved when you shall depart this life Consider those words of St. Paul 1 Cor. 6.10 Nor thieves nor drunkards shall inherit the Kingdom of God yet you must possess it if you be saved Th. Do you think you can shew your self a Physician to my sinful sick Soul Pr. Believe in Jesus Christ mourn for your sins beg a blessed change from God an happy hour wherein he may give you the remission of your sins and life everlasting Th. What must I believe that I may believe in Christ aright Pr. You must believe that Jesus Christ by his Death and Passion merited the remission of sins and life eternal and that for you particularly This is commanded you in the Gospel Th. Whatsoever the Gospel says is it true or false Pr. 'T is truth it self Th. Has Christ by his Death and Passion purchased these things for all Pr. l Pisc con Schafm disp de Praedest pag. 12. Although humane Reason and in good men has thence taken scandal and some of the Evangelical Doctors much rage rail when they hear any teach that God would not have all men to be saved but onely such and such and Christ is not dead for all but we firmly believe on either side and that from Scripture it self so that I may assert in plain words m Perk. de Spir. desert p. 3. God has constituted no Mediator for the reprobated for Christ is the Redeemer of the Elect onely and not of others Th. Is not Christ then dead and made n Polan Explic. quar in Relig. diff p. 154. q. 4. an offering for Reprobates Pr. I pray Sir if you be one of Christs elect Sheep why do you thus patronize the Reprobate and Damned Reade the judgement of the Synod of o Synod of Dort c. 2. art 8. Dort that will teach you that this was the free counsel gracious intention of God the Father of the precious death of his onely Son to effect grace and Salvation in all the Elect giving them alone justifying faith and by it infallibly bringing them to heaven that is God
justifie yet notwithstanding we are bound to observe the precepts of God as it is written if you will enter into life eternal keep the commandments Th. Gently good brother l Luth. in Serm. on Joh. 16.4 for thus you deny Christ and destroy faith attributing that to Divine commands or the law which is onely due and proper to God Furthermore I am almost induced to believe that you are an heretick whilst you attribute something to good works in our justification before God m Luther N. T. I say further Sir because the way is narrow you ought to be lowly and humble if you intend to passe for those that are loaded with good works are like those we see go pilgrimage to the reliques of S. James so incompassed with reeds that they cannot passe thither n Id. therefore if you come to heaven with a great bag full of good works you will be forced to lay them down for you cannot get in with them Pr. I confesse that good works are not looked upon as the impulsive cause of our justification and salvation yet for all that we are to take heed that we commit no bad ones Th. Very right Sir we do beware of sins o Catech. Heidel qu. 114. but much more of the law and good works onely heeding divine promises and our end Good God! What good can such miserable sinners as we do when as the most holy men who ever lived whilst they were in this life have had so small beginnings of obedience that you could not out of all their actions pick out one which did not deserve the just punishment yea the eternal punishment rather of Gods wrath then worthy of the reward of eternal life Go to therefore you Pedlers and Sectaries in religion with your good works and follow me who onely build my faith and help in the free grace and mercy of God p Luther of Capt. Babyl ch of Baptism For a baptized Christian is so rich that no sinnes whatsoever they be can rob him of his inheritance or impoverish him unlesse he fall away of himself from the faith All these are the very expresse words of Luther and Calvin and are these of your reformed Divines Pr. Yes but I perceive friend that you confiding in these and such like expressions have taken too much liberty to commit hainous sins therefore 't is necessary that you be instructed of that will of God by which he will be obeyed Th. You speak well Sir but don't you think that I have often thought of it truly I have and have often and much considered with my self about it for y Sturm of Predest Thes 18. pag. 117. I knew the will of God was twofold either Secret or Revealed So that God wills many things which he will not reveal z Id. Thes p. 31. as is clear by this instance a Perk. of Free-grace p. 45. God promulgated this edict by Moses to Pharaoh saying Let my people go when as the secret will of God and purpose was that he should not let the people go Neither b Calv. ad calumn Nebulon. ought this to seem a wonder to you because God has by his secret will decreed some to sin who by his revealed will he has commanded to do no evil Pr. Why so do you believe you perform the will of God when you commit iniquity Th. If c Sturm of Predest Thes 18. p. 17. you look after the hidden will of God whereby he has ordered all things to work for his glory wicked men do do the will of God but ●f you look to the revealed will of God wicked men do it not Pr. You say right therefore you are alwayes to be intent on the external revealed will of God because his hidden will you do not cannot know Th. Truly Sir these same two wills in or of God have alwayes made a great noise in my head and sounded very strangely in my ears d Pisc against Schafm for seeing God does not alwayes will what he e Dungan Pacif. fol. 56. does reveal to us to have willed and his revealed will to be call'd so but improperly his hidden properly furthermore f Calv. ad calumn Neb. pag. 161 to Art 7. that God should by his ineffable counsel will a thing to this end and make it for another and forbid that to be done which he wills to have done I was not very inquisitive about this revealed will Pr. How dare you belch forth such Blasphemies Th. I speak the very truth it self for when-as g Sturm of Predest Thes 1. fol. 3. the secret will of God is wholly onely and alwayes done and nothing happens in the world but God did before decree it nay when this hidden Decree of God is the necessary cause of all things so that God himself wills sin by the will of his bene placet I have alwayes counted it safe to follow the efficacious will of God lest otherwise I should take labour in vain Pr. h Ripert in Colloq p. 250. It is manifest that the Omnipotent God according to his secret Decree and bene placet would not have done what he has commanded to men in his revealed word and that i Id. pag. 252. all things as it appears according to God and his Decree infallibly and necessarily come to pass I go not about to deny nay I expresly hold this opinion in my judgement yet neverthelesse you ought to be the more sollicitous and careful over your self Th. I have read in Scripture Sir that Christ forbids all manner of vain sollicitousness of minde as to adde one cubit to ones height to make one hair black or white and others of these sorts Thence I judge I should do a great deal foolisher as well as more irreligious if I should presume to endeavour and strive against the decree and efficacious will of God Therefore you ought to confess with me that all operations humane commotions internal and external as well the bad as good whether of understanding heart or will have both their rise and efficacy from the force and impulse of Divine Providence so that they cannot but chuse whatsoever God shall will So that in Adams fall God had destinated his heart both to that end and action And hence it is l Calv. of Predest p. 842. that men can never will or do any thing but what God prompts them too whether it be good or evil so that he sometimes guides their hands sometimes holds them now turns them this way then that way and what way soever he pleases that they may effect whatever he has decreed which is only not to be understood of actions which are but of bad and evil likewise for m Calv. de locis praecipuis men sometimes like unto savage beasts run into all manner of viciousness yet for all this it often happens that they are so held in and curbed by an invisible and