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Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
cause_n church_n true_a visible_a 3,262 5 9.6634 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A85314 Separation examined: or, a treatise vvherein the grounds for separation from the ministry and churches of England are weighed, and found too light. The practise proved to be not onely unwarrantable, but likewise so hurtful to the churches, that church-reformation cannot with any comfort go forward, so long as such separation is tolerated. Also an humble request presented to the congregational divines, that since the differences between them and the classical-divines are very small they would please to strike in with the classical-divines in carrying on the worke of reformation, before the inundation of these corrupt opinions, have destroyed both ordinances and religion. / By Gi. Firmin minister to the church in Shalford in essex. Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697. 1652 (1652) Wing F964; Thomason E656_12; ESTC R206624 107,263 123

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maintain_v any_o officer_n i_o wish_v there_o be_v not_o too_o strong_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o covetousness_n and_o ambition_n reign_v too_o much_o among_o this_o kind_n of_o separatist_n yet_o because_o the_o prove_v that_o there_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o england_n will_v be_v of_o great_a consequence_n to_o the_o follow_a discourse_n as_o be_v the_o groundwork_n of_o it_o i_o will_v therefore_o produce_v one_o argument_n to_o prove_v it_o and_o if_o i_o can_v prove_v that_o than_o it_o will_v necessary_o follow_v there_o be_v a_o true_a visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n which_o as_o i_o say_v i_o think_v no_o christian_a dare_v deny_v but_o what_o da●es_v not_o the_o vile_a heart_n of_o man_n think_v say_v or_o do_v if_o god_n give_v it_o up_o to_o its_o own_o blindness_n and_o wickedness_n master_n burrough_n make_v mention_n of_o schusselburgius_fw-la 236._o iren._n pag._n 236._o who_o collect_v the_o sect_n opinion_n and_o way_n of_o man_n soon_o after_o luther_n say_v there_o be_v not_o any_o one_o strange_a opinion_n among_o we_o now_o but_o you_o shall_v find_v it_o among_o they_o in_o terminis_fw-la only_a i_o remember_v not_o that_o one_o that_o have_v take_v some_o who_o though_o they_o acknowledge_v the_o scripture_n yet_o think_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n on_o the_o earth_n many_o be_v the_o error_n that_o be_v confute_v condemn_v in_o the_o first_o synod_n in_o new_a england_n which_o error_n i_o find_v here_o in_o england_n but_o there_o be_v not_o this_o error_n among_o they_o all_o to_o my_o remembrance_n it_o be_v wont_a to_o be_v say_v of_o africa_n that_o every_o year_n it_o produce_v a_o new_a monster_n but_o now_o it_o must_v be_v say_v of_o england_n that_o it_o have_v produce_v such_o a_o spiritual_a monster_n as_o no_o nation_n that_o own_v the_o scripture_n ever_o do_v before_o the_o lord_n save_o we_o from_o our_o own_o heart_n but_o i_o will_v now_o prove_v the_o thesis_n as_o i_o say_v before_o 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england_n there_o be_v true_a gospel-minister_n i_o put_v in_o the_o word_n many_o oppose_v i_o dare_v venture_v far_o here_o but_o that_o i_o will_v save_v myself_o against_o those_o who_o i_o oppose_v because_o i_o be_o sure_a i_o shall_v maintain_v my_o ground_n for_o why_o shall_v i_o have_v undertake_v to_o prove_v that_o all_o the_o minister_n in_o england_n be_v true_a gospel-minister_n and_o that_o in_o every_o parochial_a congregation_n in_o the_o blind_a corner_n of_o england_n there_o be_v such_o visible_a saint_n as_o aught_o to_o be_v in_o the_o constitution_n of_o a_o church_n enough_o i_o mean_v to_o make_v a_o church_n i_o shall_v have_v have_v a_o hard_a task_n but_o by_o this_o word_n many_o i_o include_v abundance_n both_o church_n and_o minister_n beside_o our_o congregationall_a minister_n now_o to_o my_o argument_n the_o major_n can_v be_v deny_v for_o all_o the_o cause_n be_v there_o set_v down_o which_o be_v require_v to_o a_o true_a minister_n 1_o the_o 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impute_v to_o all_o the_o presbyterian_o who_o be_v thus_o scorn_v but_o now_o to_o the_o minister_n the_o general_a apprehension_n that_o these_o man_n have_v of_o the_o minister_n be_v that_o they_o be_v anti-christian_n minister_n and_o what_o be_v more_o common_a in_o their_o mouth_n then_o to_o call_v they_o so_o this_o be_v a_o heavy_a charge_n if_o it_o can_v be_v prove_v but_o this_o term_n anti-christian_n be_v both_o a_o simple_a term_n a_o complexe_n proposition_n a_o syllogism_n i._n e._n they_o think_v it_o sufficient_a proof_n to_o charge_v they_o with_o it_o though_o hundred_o of_o these_o know_v no_o more_o than_o a_o babe_n wherein_o the_o formality_n of_o antichristianism_a do_v consist_v but_o every_o thing_n that_o displease_v they_o that_o be_v antichristian_a infant_n baptism_n be_v anti-christian_n the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n be_v anti-christian_n sing_v of_o psalm_n be_v anti-christian_n it_o be_v proof_n sufficient_a they_o have_v say_v it_o now_o this_o 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most_o of_o you_o and_o many_o walk_n above_o ordinance_n i_o say_v may_v not_o these_o be_v call_v as_o true_o anti-christians_a in_o a_o large_a sense_n who_o thus_o throw_v down_o what_o christ_n have_v set_v up_o as_o well_o as_o those_o who_o set_v up_o such_o ordinance_n as_o christ_n never_o do_v set_v up_o which_o be_v one_o sign_n of_o antichristianism_a but_o if_o you_o will_v know_v what_o be_v proper_o antichristianism_a 162._o exposi_fw-la on_o hos_n first_o book_n p._n 162._o i_o pray_v take_v it_o from_o a_o far_o more_o able_a man_n then_o myself_o one_o well_o know_v and_o that_o deserve_v honour_n mr._n burrough_n he_o well_o observe_v the_o madness_n of_o people_n that_o cry_v out_o against_o any_o thing_n that_o displease_v they_o that_o it_o be_v antichristianism_a then_o set_v down_o thus_o wherein_o it_o consist_v 1_o whosoever_o shall_v obtrude_v any_o doctrine_n upon_o the_o church_n to_o be_v believe_v by_o their_o own_o authority_n 2_o the_o intrusion_n of_o 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they_o do_v look_v upon_o abundance_n of_o our_o presbyterial_a minister_n as_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n 2_o i_o know_v that_o they_o will_v disapprove_v of_o the_o practice_n of_o some_o who_o have_v separate_v from_o the_o minister_n who_o they_o have_v before_o choose_v and_o the_o godly_a congregation_n upon_o this_o notion_n as_o i_o know_v some_o have_v do_v deceive_v i_o do_v honour_n the_o grace_n of_o divers_a of_o those_o christian_n who_o separate_v but_o satan_n get_v into_o a_o angel_n of_o light_n and_o deceive_v especial_o from_o that_o famous_a congregation_n of_o dedham_n of_o which_o i_o dare_v say_v that_o for_o a_o parochial_a congregation_n there_o be_v not_o the_o like_a number_n of_o real_a and_o visible_a saint_n in_o any_o congregation_n in_o england_n i_o be_o sure_a there_o be_v not_o before_o this_o separation_n be_v make_v and_o for_o the_o minister_n i_o speak_v not_o of_o they_o they_o be_v man_n well_o know_v i_o wish_v i_o have_v nothing_o more_o 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to_o preach_v in_o their_o congregation_n that_o go_v from_o hence_o but_o be_v not_o ordain_v there_o but_o our_o minister_n of_o new_a england_n be_v here_o judge_v nothing_o worth_a but_o be_v as_o contemptible_a as_o any_o in_o the_o mouth_n of_o our_o separatist_n yet_o they_o be_v man_n of_o worth_n second_o i_o answer_v to_o what_o you_o say_v it_o come_v through_o and_o from_o the_o romish_a synagogue_n if_o your_o argument_n have_v any_o force_n you_o must_v cast_v it_o thus_o those_o minister_n which_o stand_v by_o a_o romish_a institution_n be_v no_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n but_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n stand_v by_o a_o romish_a institution_n ergo_fw-la the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v no_o true_a minister_n of_o christ_n the_o major_a you_o will_v grant_v and_o if_o we_o can_v prove_v the_o minor_a our_o minister_n shall_v utter_o renounce_v their_o ordination_n i_o dare_v undertake_v for_o they_o but_o the_o minor_a be_v very_o false_a they_o stand_v 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away_o that_o argument_n run_v as_o strong_a against_o our_o baptism_n and_o any_o other_o ordinance_n with_o which_o though_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n mingle_v their_o invention_n do_v they_o therefore_o null_a the_o ordinance_n the_o vessel_n that_o be_v once_o dedicate_v to_o god_n by_o his_o own_o institution_n though_o they_o be_v put_v into_o the_o house_n of_o nebuchadnezar_n god_n and_o those_o that_o be_v fit_a very_o like_v use_v by_o belshazzar_n to_o drink_v wine_n in_o when_o he_o praise_v the_o god_n etc._n etc._n they_o be_v not_o so_o much_o as_o new_a cast_v again_o but_o carry_v to_o jerusalem_n fin_n ezra_n 1.7_o ad_fw-la fin_n i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o think_v of_o the_o judgement_n of_o mr._n johnson_n a_o man_n great_a i_o be_o sure_a among_o the_o brethren_n of_o the_o separation_n though_o the_o separatist_n in_o our_o day_n make_v a_o tush_o at_o the_o judgement_n of_o any_o man_n yea_o although_o he_o be_v of_o the_o separation_n but_o yet_o consider_v the_o reason_n which_o sway_v he_o and_o then_o judge_v the_o case_n be_v this_o one_o that_o be_v a_o minister_n in_o the_o church_n of_o england_n be_v after_o choose_v teacher_n to_o a_o separate_a congregation_n without_o any_o new_a impose_v of_o hand_n this_o he_o undertake_v to_o justify_v thus_o 1_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v of_o god_n and_o not_o a_o invention_n of_o man_n it_o be_v not_o a_o postor_n threshold_n first_o bring_v by_o antichrist_n into_o the_o temple_n of_o god_n but_o have_v therein_o afore_o antichrist_n sit_v there_o 2._o baptism_n and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v join_v together_o among_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o foundation_n speak_v of_o heb._n 6.2_o therefore_o it_o ought_v to_o be_v regard_v 3._o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n still_o give_v to_o the_o office_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o lord_n as_o they_o do_v also_o still_o administer_v baptism_n 4._o we_o find_v not_o either_o precept_n example_n or_o ground_n in_o the_o scripture_n bind_v we_o to_o the_o repetition_n of_o it_o 5._o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n in_o israel_n become_v unclean_a when_o afterward_o they_o be_v cleanse_v retain_v still_o their_o place_n of_o be_v priest_n and_o levite_n and_o the_o child_n of_o the_o priest_n and_o levite_n succeed_v after_o they_o ●id_v administer_v without_o a_o new_a anoint_v or_o new_a imposition_n of_o hand_n etc._n etc._n thus_o then_o as_o mr._n johnson_n and_o mr._n ainsworth_n oppose_v rebaptization_n because_o baptism_n be_v a_o ordinance_n of_o god_n which_o be_v have_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n before_o she_o fall_v into_o apostasy_n and_o have_v be_v there_o continue_v ever_o since_o the_o apostle_n time_n how_o ever_o co-mingled_n with_o many_o invention_n of_o their_o own_o so_o mr._n johnson_n defend_v the_o ordination_n of_o that_o minister_n which_o he_o have_v in_o england_n because_o imposition_n of_o hand_n be_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n from_o the_o apostle_n time_n before_o her_o apostasy_n and_o be_v there_o continue_v to_o this_o day_n though_o mix_v with_o many_o pollution_n of_o their_o own_o i_o pray_v only_o note_v this_o that_o whereas_o i_o say_v they_o stand_v by_o their_o ordination_n i_o do_v not_o mean_v that_o only_o but_o also_o they_o have_v the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n of_o which_o i_o speak_v before_o and_o that_o the_o separatist_n can_v deny_v which_o yet_o they_o make_v the_o great_a matter_n in_o a_o minister_n call_v three_o i_o answer_v if_o this_o argument_n be_v of_o any_o force_n it_o will_v rather_o prevail_v against_o the_o first_o reformer_n as_o in_o other_o nation_n so_o against_o our_o first_o reformer_n in_o england_n who_o come_v new_o out_o of_o popery_n but_o what_o be_v this_o to_o we_o who_o have_v be_v above_o ninety_o year_n out_o of_o that_o bondage_n and_o have_v cast_v off_o their_o government_n worship_n and_o doctrine_n so_o far_o as_o antichristian_a for_o a_o long_a time_n but_o if_o our_o first_o reformer_n be_v able_a enough_o to_o maintain_v their_o call_n then_o much_o more_o our_o minister_n four_o but_o if_o you_o will_v throw_v away_o all_o that_o come_v through_o rome_n let_v we_o see_v what_o course_n you_o will_v take_v when_o you_o have_v deny_v all_o the_o ordinance_n that_o have_v be_v administer_v for_o these_o ninety_o year_n in_o england_n for_o if_o no_o ministry_n then_o certain_o no_o authoritative_a preach_n no_o sacrament_n and_o thus_o you_o have_v renounce_v yvor_o baptism_n which_o you_o have_v by_o these_o minister_n what_o method_n will_v you_o take_v in_o your_o reformation_n how_o will_v you_o come_v to_o be_v rebaptise_v you_o will_v tell_v i_o you_o will_v covenant_v together_o and_o then_o elect_v and_o ordain_v a_o minister_n and_o he_o shall_v baptize_v of_o this_o more_o afterward_o but_o
question_v till_o our_o separatist_n rise_v up_o who_o be_v not_o comparable_a to_o they_o in_o part_n or_o holiness_n 2_o i_o pray_v what_o do_v you_o make_v of_o those_o minister_n who_o be_v ordain_v in_o the_o primitive_a church_n 33_o cyp._n epis_n 33_o they_o be_v ordain_v in_o cyprian_n time_n by_o bishop_n and_o presbyter_n and_o by_o hieroms_n time_n the_o bishop_n have_v ingross_v that_o power_n into_o their_o own_o hand_n as_o appear_v by_o that_o speech_n of_o he_o except_v ordination_n evagr._fw-la epist_n ad_fw-la evagr._fw-la what_o do_v a_o bishop_n that_o a_o presbyter_n do_v not_o so_o that_o by_o this_o time_n it_o shall_v seem_v that_o the_o presbyter_n be_v turn_v out_o and_o the_o bishop_n only_o ordain_v it_o be_v possible_a this_o may_v be_v but_o in_o some_o church_n for_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n order_v that_o no_o bishop_n shall_v ordain_v without_o the_o council_n of_o his_o clergy_n can._n 22._o can._n 3._o now_o what_o be_v these_o no_o minister_n anti-christ_n be_v not_o yet_o get_v into_o his_o seat_n for_o the_o year_n of_o his_o reign_n have_v be_v expire_v before_o this_o time_n it_o be_v strange_a that_o those_o shall_v be_v no_o true_a minister_n who_o live_v so_o near_o the_o apostle_n time_n and_o under_o persecution_n also_o as_o in_o cyprian_n time_n neither_o be_v cyprian_n sure_o the_o first_o bishop_n that_o do_v ordain_v for_o there_o be_v bishop_n before_o he_o yea_o beside_o this_o ordination_n by_o bishop_n we_o find_v the_o papist_n contend_v strong_o for_o strange_a rite_n which_o they_o use_v in_o ordination_n and_o they_o say_v they_o be_v also_o use_v in_o those_o primitive_a time_n for_o the_o anoint_v of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbyter_n that_o be_v ordain_v this_o they_o will_v prove_v from_o cyprian_a or_o at_o least_o the_o author_n of_o the_o card._n work_n of_o ch._n who_o show_v l_n seem_v to_o be_v as_o old_a as_o cyprian_a also_o from_o eusebius_n hist_o eccles_n l._n 10._o c._n 4._o which_o place_n will_v seem_v to_o favour_v it_o and_o other_o there_o be_v who_o they_o quote_v see_v greg._n de_fw-fr val._n to_o 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o also_o for_o the_o shave_n of_o the_o head_n of_o their_o minister_n this_o we_o find_v indeed_o in_o august_n time_n ep._n 26._o &_o ep._n 147._o and_o this_o calvin_n himself_o do_v not_o deny_v to_o have_v be_v use_v then_o and_o give_v the_o reason_n why_o it_o be_v use_v which_o greg._n de_fw-fr val._n scorn_v and_o give_v other_o reason_n to._n 4._o d._n 9_o q._n 5._o p._n 3._o if_o the_o decret_a epistle_n of_o anicetus_n be_v of_o any_o authority_n we_o shall_v find_v it_o in_o his_o day_n long_o before_o augustin_n and_o i_o wonder_v that_o greg._n val._n do_v not_o quote_v he_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v be_v they_o be_v so_o prone_a to_o ceremony_n in_o other_o ordinance_n that_o something_o be_v add_v to_o this_o also_o 27._o just_a l._n 4._o c._n 19_o sect_n 27._o and_o i_o marvel_v that_o in_o the_o four_o council_n of_o carthage_n where_o they_o set_v down_o their_o rite_n in_o ordination_n of_o other_o officer_n and_o some_o very_a ridiculous_a that_o the_o ordination_n of_o presbyter_n shall_v be_v the_o most_o pure_a but_o still_o with_o bishop_n as_o well_o as_o presbyter_n which_o be_v the_o thing_n now_o in_o hand_n 3_o a_o bishop_n if_o you_o consider_v he_o mere_o as_o a_o bishop_n be_v but_o a_o minister_n and_o set_v apart_o to_o do_v the_o work_n of_o a_o minister_n the_o same_o which_o all_o other_o minister_n may_v do_v bishop_n do_v pray_v prithee_o baptise_v administer_v the_o lord_n supper_n ordain_v suspend_v excommunicate_a and_o these_o thing_n other_o minister_n do_v and_o may_v do_v that_o he_o do_v lift_v up_o himself_o above_o other_o minister_n that_o be_v his_o error_n that_o he_o will_v take_v upon_o he_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n and_o excommunication_n this_o be_v his_o error_n but_o as_o the_o addition_n of_o a_o human_a invention_n do_v not_o null_a the_o ordinance_n as_o suppose_v only_o grow_v person_n have_v be_v baptize_v and_o that_o by_o dip_v and_o after_o dip_v they_o have_v be_v sign_v with_o the_o sign_n of_o the_o cross_n will_v this_o have_v null_v the_o ordinance_n in_o the_o anabaptist_n esteem_n no_o more_o this_o usurpation_n of_o the_o power_n of_o administer_a these_o ordinance_n do_v null_a a_o bishop_n so_o as_o he_o be_v no_o minister_n the_o ordinance_n be_v and_o be_v christ_n institution_n indeed_o you_o may_v call_v he_o a_o overgrown_a presbyter_n but_o a_o presbyter_n 10._o 3_o ep._n joh_n ver_fw-la 10._o diotrophe_n love_v of_o pre-eminence_n do_v just_o deserve_v reproof_n and_o john_n do_v no_o doubt_n deal_v with_o he_o but_o yet_o for_o present_a do_v not_o deny_v he_o to_o be_v a_o minister_n though_o a_o corrupt_a one_o for_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o ordination_n they_o tell_v we_o it_o be_v the_o order_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n as_o of_o the_o council_n of_o carthage_n that_o when_o a_o presbyter_n be_v ordain_v all_o the_o presbyter_n that_o be_v present_a shall_v lay_v hand_n as_o for_o the_o sole_a power_n of_o excommunication_n though_o it_o be_v a_o error_n gross_a enough_o yet_o by_o the_o 17._o canon_n council_n sardic_n nice_a ofius_n who_o be_v the_o cause_n of_o that_o ganon_z be_v make_v be_v also_o at_o the_o council_n of_o nice_a it_o shall_v seem_v the_o bishop_n by_o that_o time_n have_v get_v that_o power_n to_o excommunicate_v alone_o which_o canon_n provide_v a_o remedy_n for_o a_o person_n wrongsul_o excommunicate_v by_o his_o bishop_n to_o get_v relief_n by_o appeal_v now_o if_o that_o corruption_n have_v get_v in_o so_o early_o long_o before_o anti-christ_n have_v get_v to_o his_o seat_n no_o wonder_n though_o it_o be_v find_v among_o our_o bishop_n yet_o i_o hope_v they_o be_v true_a minister_n who_o they_o ordain_v as_o a_o bishop_n be_v a_o lord_n bishop_n his_o lordship_n be_v but_o a_o mere_a civil_a addition_n annex_v to_o the_o bishopric_n by_o regallfavour_n his_o lordship_n be_v no_o ingredient_n into_o ordination_n 4_o the_o law_n of_o this_o realm_n do_v account_v nothing_o divine_a in_o a_o bishop_n but_o his_o be_v a_o presbyter_n 85._o lond._n vind_z 125._o dr._n seam_n answ_n to_o diat_v p._n 85._o and_o therefore_o the_o parliament_n in_o their_o ordinance_n for_o ordination_n tell_v we_o that_o they_o do_v ordain_v as_o presbyter_n not_o as_o bishop_n much_o less_o as_o lord_n bishop_n yea_o i_o have_v hear_v a_o reverend_a minister_n now_o pastor_n of_o a_o congregationall_a church_n in_o essex_n say_v that_o when_o the_o bishop_n ordain_v he_o he_o tell_v he_o i_o do_v ordain_v you_o as_o i_o be_o a_o presbyter_n 5_o the_o minister_n of_o england_n be_v ready_a to_o acknowledge_v those_o defect_n and_o corruption_n which_o do_v cleave_v to_o their_o enter_v into_o the_o ministry_n by_o the_o bishop_n hear_v their_o own_o word_n 124._o london_n vindica_fw-la p._n 124._o we_o do_v not_o deny_v but_o that_o the_o way_n of_o minister_n enter_v into_o the_o ministry_n by_o the_o bishop_n have_v many_o defect_n in_o it_o for_o which_o they_o ought_v to_o be_v humble_v but_o we_o add_v that_o notwithstanding_o all_o the_o accidental_a corruption_n yet_o it_o be_v not_o substantial_o and_o essential_o corrupt_v they_o acknowledge_v then_o the_o error_n and_o desire_v to_o be_v humble_v for_o it_o what_o more_o will_v you_o have_v god_n will_v accept_v of_o this_o i_o doubt_v not_o and_z why_o not_o you_o how_o to_o mend_v dr._n seaman_n divinity_n i_o know_v not_o where_o you_o have_v also_o the_o error_n acknowledge_v implicit_o for_o it_o be_v in_o answer_n to_o this_o objection_n then_o give_v his_o judgement_n in_o the_o case_n when_o sin_n cleave_v to_o the_o manner_n of_o call_v 85._o answer_v to_o diat_v p._n 85._o through_o the_o general_a error_n or_o corruption_n of_o all_o sort_n of_o people_n who_o be_v concern_v in_o it_o etc._n etc._n it_o be_v nototherwise_o to_o be_v invalidate_v here_o below_o then_o by_o doctrinal_a censure_n and_o repentance_n and_o not_o by_o iteration_n repentance_n through_o christ_n blood_n do_v take_v away_o corruption_n out_o of_o god_n fight_n and_o will_v it_o not_o when_o they_o be_v so_o ingenuous_a out_o of_o your_o sight_n 6_o there_o be_v a_o maxim_n take_v up_o among_o the_o independent_o according_o many_o may_v true_o bear_v the_o name_n yea_o they_o own_v it_o and_o practice_v according_o yea_o and_o other_o and_o it_o go_v for_o as_o good_a divinity_n as_o any_o the_o gospel_n have_v viz._n that_o error_n in_o nonfundamentals_a must_v be_v bear_v withal_o in_o church_n we_o must_v labour_v indeed_o to_o convince_v people_n of_o such_o but_o if_o they_o will_v not_o be_v so_o convince_v we_o must_v not_o
covenant_n though_o i_o can_v hearty_o wish_v all_o our_o minister_n will_v follow_v the_o practice_n of_o the_o holland_n church_n who_o cause_n all_o apollon_n apollon_n who_o come_v to_o the_o sacrament_n to_o promise_v to_o subject_n to_o discipline_n yet_o for_o the_o present_a i_o say_v this_o there_o be_v a_o implicit_a covenant_n in_o all_o these_o church_n and_o if_o you_o be_v afraid_a to_o speak_v to_o these_o person_n first_o who_o you_o will_v have_v suspend_v then_o go_v to_o the_o minister_n and_o carry_v sufficient_a witness_n as_o you_o must_v do_v in_o any_o church_n and_o i_o be_o confident_a without_o satisfaction_n give_v no_o more_o can_v be_v require_v in_o any_o church_n thousand_o of_o the_o presbyterial_a minister_n will_v keep_v away_o scandalous_a person_n at_o least_o you_o be_v clear_a as_o i_o say_v before_o yet_o to_o see_v these_o man_n separate_v for_o that_o in_o which_o themselves_o be_v most_o to_o blame_v obj._n but_o they_o baptize_v all_o child_n make_v no_o difference_n though_o never_o so_o scandalous_a a._n though_o this_o be_v very_o seldom_o urge_v yet_o because_o i_o will_v draw_v out_o all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v i_o add_v this_o for_o my_o own_o practice_n i_o confess_v in_o this_o i_o differ_v from_o other_o man_n far_o better_a than_o myself_o but_o yet_o be_v i_o a_o member_n of_o some_o other_o presbyterial_a congregation_n i_o shall_v not_o dare_v to_o separate_v upon_o this_o ground_n 1_o it_o be_v grant_v by_o our_o congregationall_a man_n 11._o mr._n hook_n survey_v p._n 3_o p._n 11._o that_o though_o person_n be_v very_o wicked_a yet_o so_o long_o as_o they_o live_v in_o visible_a church_n and_o be_v not_o proceed_v against_o they_o may_v just_o challenge_v the_o privilege_n of_o church-member_n but_o i_o dare_v not_o deny_v they_o to_o be_v true_a visible_a church_n in_o which_o there_o be_v many_o such_o for_o there_o be_v many_o both_o real_a and_o visible_a saint_n in_o such_o church_n where_o these_o wicked_a man_n be_v obj._n but_o then_o this_o make_v against_o yourself_o in_o deny_v some_o child_n baptism_n a._n practice_n learned_a mr._n cawdrey_n come_v to_o my_o hand_n after_o i_o have_v print_v my_o little_a treatise_n have_v i_o see_v he_o before_o i_o shall_v have_v humble_o present_v some_o answer_n to_o some_o thing_n which_o i_o see_v the●e_n so_o far_o as_o concern_v my_o question_n the_o question_n about_o confederacy_n do_v not_o concern_v i_o also_o i_o will_v have_v propound_v some_o reason_n why_o his_o three_o way_n i_o e._n adoption_n i_o shall_v not_o so_o easy_o admit_v under_o the_o new_a testament_n till_o those_o reason_n be_v remove_v i_o perceive_v he_o admire_v at_o they_o who_o deny_v the_o child_n of_o excommunicate_v parent_n baptism_n i_o have_v no_o place_n now_o to_o answer_v but_o only_o this_o i_o say_v it_o be_v not_o good_a to_o put_v too_o much_o upon_o baptism_n nor_o too_o little_a upon_o that_o dreadful_a ordinance_n of_o excommunication_n what_o he_o say_v p._n 202._o about_o the_o impotence_n to_o reject_v profane_a person_n through_o the_o iniquity_n of_o the_o time_n which_o imply_v what_o he_o will_v do_v if_o he_o have_v power_n confirm_v my_o practice_n i_o answer_v as_o i_o have_v declare_v in_o that_o little_a tract_n upon_o this_o question_n which_o the_o uncivil_a carriage_n of_o some_o in_o the_o congregation_n when_o i_o have_v deal_v love_o with_o they_o in_o private_a before_o force_v i_o to_o print_v i_o deny_v not_o they_o baptism_n absolute_o but_o as_o i_o suspend_v they_o from_o one_o of_o the_o seal_n so_o i_o do_v from_o this_o also_o till_o they_o will_v labour_v to_o get_v out_o of_o their_o gross_a ignorance_n and_o scandalous_a conversation_n and_o will_v subject_v themselves_o to_o church-discipline_n so_o that_o i_o do_v as_o say_v the_o london_n minister_n separate_v in_o the_o church_n but_o not_o from_o the_o church_n as_o the_o state_n of_o our_o lapse_v church_n will_v give_v we_o leave_v i_o desire_v to_o proceed_v against_o such_o yet_o but_o gentle_o as_o for_o excommunication_n that_o be_v a_o great_a work_n have_v the_o advantage_n in_o the_o church_n that_o many_o good_a minister_n better_o than_o myself_o have_v not_o viz._n that_o the_o strong_a party_n in_o the_o town_n be_v religious_a but_o have_v many_o presbyterial_a man_n the_o same_o advantage_n i_o believe_v you_o shall_v see_v they_o will_v be_v more_o strict_a than_o now_o they_o be_v congregation_n must_v be_v mend_v by_o degree_n to_o purge_v per_fw-mi vice_n in_o foul_a body_n be_v better_a than_o at_o first_o to_o give_v hellebore_n scammony_n and_o such_o strong_a worker_n it_o will_v cost_v abundance_n of_o prayer_n wisdom_n labour_n meekness_n to_o bring_v these_o congregation_n fall_v into_o this_o ignorance_n and_o profaneness_n for_o want_v of_o catechise_v and_o discipline_n let_v the_o bishop_n look_v to_o their_o account_n beside_o divers_a presbyterial_a minister_n do_v examine_v their_o people_n before_o they_o will_v baptise_v yea_o and_o i_o have_v hear_v one_o who_o be_v esteem_v a_o rigid_a presbyterian_a say_v that_o if_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v settle_v they_o will_v baptise_v none_o but_o they_o will_v have_v the_o parent_n 1._o examine_v in_o point_n of_o knowledge_n 2._o if_o they_o be_v scandalous_a that_o they_o shall_v confess_v their_o sin_n 3._o promise_v for_o the_o time_n to_o come_v to_o reform_v 4._o that_o if_o person_n will_v refuse_v to_o submit_v to_o church-discipline_n they_o will_v deny_v they_o the_o lord_n supper_n since_o than_o it_o be_v in_o the_o heart_n of_o many_o to_o reform_v and_o it_o be_v the_o thing_n they_o will_v glad_o have_v power_n to_o do_v i_o think_v it_o be_v very_o unwarrantable_a upon_o this_o ground_n to_o separate_v from_o they_o beside_o there_o be_v many_o reason_n they_o give_v for_o baptise_v of_o all_o that_o do_v but_o profess_v christ_n which_o though_o they_o be_v not_o satisfactory_a unto_o i_o so_o as_o to_o give_v the_o seal_n of_o the_o covenant_n to_o one_o who_o say_v he_o believe_v in_o christ_n but_o yet_o be_v gross_o ignorant_a scandalous_a etc._n etc._n yet_o their_o reason_n prevail_v with_o i_o so_o as_o to_o be_v very_o charitable_a to_o those_o who_o do_v baptise_v upon_o those_o ground_n if_o there_o be_v any_o sin_n in_o it_o let_v the_o minister_n look_v to_o that_o that_o be_v not_o your_o fault_n certain_o people_n think_v it_o be_v a_o very_a easy_a thing_n to_o reform_v church_n it_o may_v be_v do_v with_o a_o wet_a finger_n but_o if_o they_o be_v in_o the_o place_n of_o minister_n and_o have_v what_o knowledge_n be_v fit_a for_o the_o place_n they_o will_v find_v it_o a_o hard_a work_n especial_o some_o church_n so_o then_o as_o yet_o we_o find_v no_o ground_n warrantable_a for_o this_o separation_n i_o come_v to_o the_o last_o the_o place_n of_o meeting_n it_o be_v idolatrous_a and_o i_o know_v not_o what_o i_o think_v here_o to_o have_v give_v in_o some_o answer_n to_o this_o absurd_a cavil_n but_o the_o practice_n of_o this_o generation_n have_v give_v in_o a_o full_a answer_n for_o it_o be_v observe_v in_o a_o neighbour_n town_n the_o minister_n not_o preach_v upon_o a_o day_n of_o thanksgiving_n a_o trooper_n get_v into_o the_o pulpit_n and_o do_v etc._n etc._n this_o be_v such_o a_o pretty_a thing_n that_o divers_a of_o the_o separatist_n in_o the_o town_n who_o have_v not_o be_v in_o the_o steeplehouse_n for_o some_o year_n before_o run_v in_o haste_n and_o become_v auditor_n of_o the_o trooper_n another_o of_o they_o who_o call_v himself_o the_o king_n of_o england_n come_v to_o i_o and_o offer_v to_o supply_v my_o place_n the_o man_n be_v mad_a as_o error_n have_v make_v he_o mad_a but_o for_o all_o civil_a action_n sober_a enough_o now_o from_o these_o practice_n i_o gather_v that_o either_o it_o be_v no_o sin_n to_o meet_v in_o a_o steeplehouse_n as_o they_o call_v it_o or_o else_o they_o have_v no_o good_a conscience_n these_o practice_n be_v frequent_a if_o trooper_n get_v into_o pulpit_n for_o the_o lawfulness_n of_o the_o assemble_v in_o these_o place_n mr._n lect._n hos_fw-la 2._o ch_z 15._o lect._n burrough_n have_v plead_v more_o may_v be_v add_v but_o i_o spare_v the_o reader_n as_o yet_o then_o we_o have_v find_v no_o sufficient_a ground_n for_o separation_n i_o shall_v desire_v yet_o to_o come_v near_o and_o request_n of_o these_o person_n what_o it_o be_v they_o will_v have_v which_o way_n may_v we_o be_v bring_v to_o a_o union_n if_o what_o they_o propound_v be_v rational_a and_o will_v be_v bear_v out_o by_o scripture_n we_o shall_v desire_n to_o come_v up_o to_o they_o for_o i_o be_o sure_a in_o that_o posture_n we_o now_o stand_v nothing_o can_v go_v forward_o i_o have_v not_o their_o proposal_n before_o
official_a power_n till_o i_o be_v also_o ordain_v the_o scripture_n then_o express_v such_o solemnity_n in_o this_o act_n and_o not_o in_o the_o other_o make_v i_o think_v this_o be_v not_o such_o a_o slight_a adjunct_n and_o the_o other_o only_o essential_a five_o i_o observe_v two_o text_n which_o make_v i_o think_v ordination_n be_v not_o a_o adjunct_n 2_o tim._n 2._o and_o the_o thing_n which_o thou_o have_v hear_v of_o i_o among_o many_o witness_n the_o same_o commit_v thou_o to_o faithful_a man_n who_o shall_v be_v able_a to_o teach_v other_o also_o and_o that_o text_n 1_o tim._n 5.22_o lay_v hand_n sudden_o upon_o no_o man_n neither_o be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n etc._n etc._n timothy_n be_v a_o church-officer_n here_o be_v a_o charge_n give_v to_o he_o to_o take_v heed_n who_o come_v into_o the_o ministry_n yea_o he_o may_v be_v partaker_n of_o other_o man_n sin_n if_o he_o have_v not_o a_o special_a care_n who_o he_o admit_v into_o the_o ministry_n nam_fw-la si_fw-la quem_fw-la cito_fw-la ordinaveris_fw-la qui_fw-la indignus_fw-la sit_fw-la etc._n communicare_fw-la cum_fw-la dicit_fw-la peccatis_fw-la qui_fw-la non_fw-la probatus_fw-la fuerit_fw-la ordinatus_fw-la hieron_n in_o loc._n v._o zanch._n in_o 4_o praec_fw-la p._n 784._o etc._n etc._n communicabis_fw-la peccatis_fw-la alienis_fw-la dum_fw-la ille_fw-la malè_fw-la docebit_fw-la aut_fw-la vivet_fw-la say_v gerhard_n in_o loc._n he_o quote_v also_o leo_n papa_n ep._n 87._o ad_fw-la africanos_n episc_n quid_fw-la est_fw-la citò_fw-la manus_fw-la imponere_fw-la nisi_fw-la ante_fw-la aetatem_fw-la maturitatis_fw-la antè_fw-la tempus_fw-la examinis_fw-la ante_fw-la meritum_fw-la laboris_fw-la antè_fw-la experientiam_fw-la disciplinae_fw-la sacerdotalem_fw-la honorem_fw-la tribuere_fw-la non_fw-la probatis_fw-la calvin_n also_o on_o the_o last_o word_n keep_v thyself_o pure_a ac_fw-la si_fw-la dixisset_fw-la si_fw-la quid_fw-la perperam_fw-la fiat_fw-la ab_fw-la aliis_fw-la vide_fw-la ne_fw-la ulla_fw-la ex_fw-la consensu_fw-la vel_fw-la approbatione_fw-la contagio_fw-la ad_fw-la te_fw-la perveniat_fw-la he_o refer_v it_o to_o timothy_n join_v with_o other_o in_o ordain_v unworthy_a person_n now_o these_o text_n do_v not_o belong_v to_o the_o people_n but_o minister_n officer_n as_o be_v timothy_n which_o make_v i_o think_v that_o what_o the_o minister_n do_v in_o examine_v try_v ordain_v be_v more_o than_o the_o people_n election_n where_o do_v we_o find_v such_o thing_n speak_v to_o the_o people_n where_o the_o great_a blame_n lie_v for_o unworthy_a man_n come_v into_o the_o ministry_n sure_o there_o must_v lie_v the_o great_a power_n of_o admit_v man_n into_o the_o ministry_n else_o the_o blame_n be_v not_o just_a but_o we_o see_v the_o blame_n be_v here_o lay_v upon_o the_o minister_n ☞_o ☞_o paul_n no_o where_n write_v to_o the_o people_n to_o commit_v the_o thing_n they_o have_v hear_v etc._n etc._n nor_o do_v he_o bid_v they_o not_o lay_v on_o hand_n sudden_o etc._n etc._n he_o bid_v they_o indeed_o look_v out_o man_n for_o deacon_n but_o that_o do_v not_o answer_v these_o text_n but_o if_o the_o great_a stroke_n the_o formal_a cause_n lie_v in_o the_o popular_a election_n the_o minister_n may_v well_o say_v we_o do_v but_o ordain_v we_o give_v but_o a_o adjunct_n the_o people_n do_v the_o main_a act_n they_o give_v the_o essence_n the_o essence_n be_v give_v we_o must_v give_v the_o adjunct_n so_o that_o there_o will_v be_v no_o blame_n leave_v for_o the_o minister_n 6_o it_o shall_v seem_v by_o a_o passage_n of_o doct._n 12._o bellar._n enter_v to._n 2_o l_o 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 12._o ames_n that_o ordination_n be_v more_o than_o a_o adjunct_n bellarmine_n have_v say_v vocatio_fw-la seu_fw-la missio_fw-la ministrorum_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la populum_fw-la pertinet_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la episcopos_fw-la etc._n etc._n doct._n ames_n in_o his_o second_o answer_n have_v these_o word_n absurdè_fw-la ad_fw-la modum_fw-la distinguitur_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ministri_fw-la ab_fw-la ejus_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n tanquam_fw-la pars_fw-la distincta_fw-la neque_fw-la in_o scripture_n neque_fw-la in_o antiquis_fw-la patribus_fw-la alia_fw-la vocatio_fw-la ordinaria_fw-la memoratur_fw-la quam_fw-la illa_fw-la quae_fw-la exurgit_fw-la quasi_fw-la totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n what_o totum_fw-la the_o doctor_n mean_v be_v plain_a by_o his_o word_n exurgit_fw-la ex_fw-la ordinatione_fw-la &_o electione_n he_o mean_v totum_fw-la integrale_fw-la so_o than_o ordination_n and_o election_n be_v member_n of_o this_o integrum_fw-la but_o all_o the_o member_n do_v give_v essence_n to_o the_o integrum_fw-la for_o membra_fw-la sunt_fw-la symbola_fw-la causarum_fw-la essentialium_fw-la if_o so_o then_o ordination_n can_v be_v a_o adjunct_n in_o respect_n of_o a_o ministerial_a call_n for_o no_o adjunct_n give_v essence_n but_o follow_v the_o essence_n suppose_v the_o subject_a complete_a in_o its_o essence_n before_o if_o then_o ordination_n do_v give_v essence_n as_o well_o as_o election_n this_o notion_n may_v hold_v else_o we_o shall_v have_v a_o integrum_fw-la consist_v but_o of_o two_o part_n and_o but_o one_o part_n give_v the_o essence_n which_o can_v be_v this_o notion_n of_o a_o minister_n call_v to_o consist_v as_o a_o totum_fw-la ex_fw-la electione_n &_o ordinatione_n be_v much_o near_o the_o rule_n then_o to_o have_v election_n alone_o to_o give_v the_o essence_n and_o ordination_n to_o be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n to_o this_o agree_v mr._n jacob_n a_o man_n well_o know_a there_o be_v two_o essential_a part_n of_o call_v to_o the_o ministry_n election_n ordination_n 64_o dr._n seaman_n quote_v he_o ans_fw-fr to_o diat_v p._n 64_o so_o the_o call_v be_v a_o totum_fw-la as_o for_o the_o objection_n make_v against_o this_o if_o ordination_n be_v essential_a what_o then_o shall_v become_v of_o our_o minister_n who_o ordination_n be_v not_o legitimate_a this_o i_o have_v speak_v to_o before_o and_o so_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o case_n a_o church_n be_v so_o cast_v by_o providence_n that_o they_o can_v get_v no_o officer_n to_o ordain_v they_o a_o officer_n for_o those_o who_o be_v of_o this_o opinion_n deny_v the_o people_n power_n to_o ordain_v it_n be_v easy_o yield_v by_o our_o divine_n that_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n which_o ordinary_o ought_v not_o to_o be_v do_v see_v rutherford_n due_a right_n of_o presbytery_n p._n 187._o gillespie_n miscel_n p._n 34._o etc._n etc._n for_o my_o part_n i_o conceive_v then_o the_o church_n fast_v and_o pray_v for_o such_o a_o one_o who_o be_v elect_v may_v do_v that_o which_o be_v equivalent_a to_o ordination_n though_o it_o be_v not_o ordination_n formalitèr_fw-la the_o strong_a argument_n wherewith_o reverend_a master_n hooker_n prove_v that_o election_n give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n be_v this_o one_o relate_v give_v the_o essential_a constitute_a cause_n to_o another_o but_o pastor_n and_o people_n be_v relate_v ergo_fw-la the_o answer_n which_o mr._n rutherford_n give_v to_o it_o viz._n that_o ordination_n make_v he_o a_o minister_n before_o and_o election_n do_v but_o appropriate_v he_o this_o mr._n hooker_n deny_v to_o be_v any_o answer_n because_o it_o suppose_v ordination_n to_o antecede_v election_n which_o be_v quite_o cross_a to_o the_o scripture_n pattern_n act._n 6.3.6_o but_o with_o favour_n i_o shall_v humble_o propound_v this_o question_n language_n this_o be_v not_o a_o bare_a supposition_n for_o one_o of_o the_o young_a scholar_n do_v now_o preach_v to_o the_o indian_n in_o their_o language_n whether_o ordination_n may_v in_o no_o case_n precede_v election_n as_o now_o in_o this_o case_n suppose_v one_o of_o the_o scholar_n in_o the_o college_n or_o suppose_v four_o or_o more_o have_v learn_v the_o indian_a language_n and_o upon_o examination_n they_o be_v find_v to_o be_v ministerial_o qualify_v suppose_v now_o the_o presbytery_n shall_v solemn_o set_v apart_o these_o young_a man_n to_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n and_o send_v they_o forth_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o indian_n though_o the_o indian_n have_v not_o elect_v they_o here_o indeed_o will_v the_o essential_o of_o a_o officer_n be_v give_v without_o election_n i_o pray_v what_o breach_n of_o rule_n will_v here_o be_v if_o it_o be_v say_v that_o the_o example_n mention_v act._n 6._o &_o act._n 14._o show_v their_o election_n go_v first_o it_o be_v true_a indeed_o where_o there_o be_v church_n but_o here_o be_v none_o beside_o act._n 13.3_o when_o paul_n and_o barnabas_n be_v send_v out_o to_o preach_v among_o the_o gentile_n they_o be_v ordain_v it_o though_o some_o deny_v ordination_n here_o to_o be_v mean_v yet_o many_o learned_a man_n affirm_v it_o when_o no_o election_n do_v precede_v it_o be_v true_a they_o be_v extraordinary_a officer_n but_o what_o then_o though_o this_o do_v not_o make_v those_o young_a man_n extraordinary_a officer_n as_o be_v the_o apostle_n to_o have_v power_n in_o all_o church_n yet_o i_o see_v not_o any_o breach_n of_o rule_n in_o separate_v they_o to_o this_o work_n if_o it_o
the_o people_n be_v but_o a_o homogeneal_a body_n to_o reject_v i.e._n excommunicate_v a_o ossicer_n will_v cost_v more_o to_o prove_v have_v reverend_a mr._n hooker_n be_v alive_a and_o see_v what_o work_v church-member_n make_v here_o in_o england_n in_o very_a many_o church_n i_o think_v it_o will_v have_v cause_v he_o to_o bethink_v himself_o again_o of_o the_o people_n power_n something_o we_o hear_v of_o be_v do_v in_o a_o church_n not_o far_o from_o the_o place_n where_o he_o live_v it_o can_v be_v keep_v close_o the_o light_n of_o that_o fire_n shine_v into_o england_n for_o the_o people_n to_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o such_o a_o officer_n when_o there_o be_v no_o other_o officer_n to_o join_v with_o they_o to_o excommunicate_v he_o this_o be_v not_o deny_v for_o by_o their_o subjection_n to_o he_o they_o make_v he_o their_o officer_n that_o be_v some_o part_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n again_o but_o for_o excommunication_n mr._n cotton_n say_v it_o be_v one_o of_o the_o high_a act_n of_o rule_n in_o the_o church_n 16_o key_n p._n 16_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v perform_v but_o by_o some_o ruler_n mr._n burrough_n say_v 51._o iren._n 51._o if_o the_o church_n be_v without_o officer_n they_o can_v do_v that_o which_o belong_v to_o officer_n to_o do_v they_o have_v no_o sacrament_n among_o they_o neither_o can_v they_o have_v any_o spiritual_a jurisdiction_n exercise_v among_o they_o only_o brotherly_a admonition_n and_o withdraw_v from_o such_o as_o walk_v disorderly_a for_o their_o own_o preservation_n so_o then_o here_o be_v a_o way_n for_o the_o people_n to_o preserve_v themselves_o though_o they_o can_v excommunicate_v and_o those_o text_n which_o reverend_a mr._n hooker_n bring_v matth._n 7.15_o and_o phil._n 3.2_o do_v not_o prove_v the_o church_n as_o a_o homogencal_a body_n to_o have_v power_n to_o excommunicate_v their_o officer_n though_o they_o may_v prove_v withdraw_v as_o also_o rom._n 16.17_o may_v prove_v it_o for_o the_o reason_n of_o his_o consequence_n that_o staple_n rule_n ejusdem_fw-la est_fw-la instituere_fw-la destituere_fw-la this_o maxim_n be_v turn_v every_o way_n sometime_o to_o prove_v the_o people_n may_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n because_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la the_o people_n in_o election_n put_v forth_o no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n therefore_o they_o may_v put_v forth_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o excommunication_n that_o there_o be_v no_o act_n of_o jurisdiction_n in_o election_n doctor_n ames_n acknowledge_v ovas_n rationales_fw-la possunt_fw-la eligere_fw-la sibi_fw-la pastorem_fw-la sicut_fw-la sponsa_fw-la eligit_fw-la sibisponsum_fw-la non_fw-la per_fw-la jurisdictionem_fw-la aut_fw-la gubernationem_fw-la sed_fw-la potius_fw-la per_fw-la subjectionem_fw-la in_o the_o answer_n before_o he_o affirm_v the_o same_o and_o elsewhere_o now_o what_o argue_v be_v this_o 13._o bellar._n enter_fw-mi to_o 2_o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s._n 19_o ib._n s._n 13._o to_o argue_v from_o subjection_n to_o the_o high_a act_n of_o jurisdiction_n there_o be_v no_o authority_n in_o election_n for_o electio_fw-la non_fw-la cogit_fw-la yet_o there_o be_v more_o power_n see_v in_o civil_a election_n than_o church-election_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v afterward_o but_o in_o excommunication_n authority_n appear_v that_o also_o be_v deny_v that_o the_o people_n do_v instituere_fw-la in_o constitute_v chruche_n and_o ordinary_o what_o may_v be_v do_v in_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n be_v no_o ordinary_a rule_n here_o the_o maxim_n be_v turn_v to_o prove_v that_o they_o may_v jnstituere_fw-la because_o they_o can_v destituere_fw-la but_o that_o will_v be_v deny_v unless_o it_o be_v in_o the_o sense_n before_o mention_v i._n e._n in_o what_o manner_n and_o how_o far_o they_o do_v instituere_fw-la i.e._n by_o a_o subjection_n to_o be_v their_o officer_n so_o they_o may_v withdraw_v their_o subjection_n from_o he_o and_o not_o own_v he_o to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o to_o excommunicate_v be_v more_o quest_n but_o suppose_v this_o be_v grant_v that_o the_o fraternity_n can_v excommunicate_v their_o officer_n but_o withdraw_v their_o subjection_n they_o may_v you_o say_v and_o so_o he_o cease_v to_o be_v their_o officer_n but_o what_o be_v he_o now_o a_o officer_n to_o other_o church_n a._n if_o the_o withdraw_a their_o subjection_n and_o reject_v be_v irregular_a then_o though_o they_o make_v he_o not_o their_o officer_n de_fw-fr facto_fw-la which_o he_o be_v still_o the_o jure_fw-la yet_o his_o relation_n to_o the_o church-catholick_n visible_a do_v still_o hold_v and_o another_o church_n give_v he_o a_o call_v he_o have_v then_o power_n actu_fw-la secund●_n to_o administer_v the_o ordinance_n there_o for_o instance_n the_o separatist_n cast_v off_o he_o who_o before_o they_o choose_v for_o their_o officer_n suppose_v now_o unless_o he_o will_v renounce_v his_o ordination_n he_o be_v no_o minister_n do_v he_o therefore_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o minister_n how_o bufie_v some_o congregationall_a church_n be_v in_o withdraw_a from_o their_o officer_n it_o be_v too_o manifest_a and_o many_o go_v to_o the_o anabaptist_n some_o turn_v seeker_n andif_a all_o the_o member_n do_v thus_o do_v they_o now_o cease_v to_o be_v minister_n 2_o but_o if_o the_o withdraw_a be_v regular_a the_o cause_n just_a try_v etc._n etc._n then_o that_o which_o be_v sufficient_a ground_n for_o their_o withdraw_a from_o he_o be_v just_a cause_n why_o he_o shall_v be_v excommunicate_v be_v pertinacious_o scandalous_a or_o heretical_a as_o mr._n hooker_n suppose_v if_o then_o the_o case_n of_o a_o church_n be_v so_o as_o they_o be_v cast_v by_o providence_n into_o some_o remote_a place_n where_o be_v no_o church_n beside_o to_o combine_v with_o then_o as_o their_o election_n of_o he_o etc._n etc._n as_o i_o say_v before_o may_v supply_v the_o want_n of_o ordination_n so_o this_o withdraw_a in_o such_o a_o extraordinary_a case_n may_v be_v analogum_fw-la to_o excommunication_n but_o say_v our_o divine_n if_o that_o church_n be_v in_o combination_n with_o other_o church_n as_o now_o under_o a_o classis_fw-la than_o the_o people_n shall_v not_o need_v to_o stay_v there_o in_o their_o withdraw_a but_o the_o case_n be_v judge_v and_o try_v by_o the_o classis_fw-la they_o as_o they_o ordain_v he_o when_o the_o people_n elect_v he_o the_o people_n consent_v do_v excommunicate_v he_o then_o as_o a_o man_n cast_v out_o of_o one_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o the_o catholic_n church_n visible_a so_o he_o who_o be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o officer_n to_o this_o church_n be_v cast_v out_o from_o be_v a_o minister_n to_o the_o church-catholicke_a visible_a for_o the_o other_o argument_n 78_o burro_fw-la iren_n p._n 50_o nort._n resp_n ad_fw-la apoll._n p._n 76_o 78_o the_o people_n convey_v of_o power_n to_o a_o officer_n i_o know_v of_o no_o power_n the_o people_n convey_v only_o a_o designation_n of_o such_o a_o person_n to_o officiate_v in_o this_o or_o that_o society_n but_o their_o power_n they_o receive_v from_o christ_n immediate_o as_o our_o congregationall_a man_n affirm_v and_o hence_o they_o act_v in_o his_o name_n not_o in_o the_o name_n of_o the_o church_n 5_o the_o last_o answer_n i_o will_v give_v to_o this_o proposal_n be_v this_o if_o you_o conceive_v this_o to_o be_v the_o only_a way_n of_o reformation_n than_o you_o must_v give_v the_o minister_n strong_a proof_n that_o you_o may_v ordain_v the_o minister_n will_v as_o much_o question_n your_o power_n to_o ordain_v as_o you_o question_v the_o bishop_n power_n so_o that_o we_o take_v it_o for_o grant_v you_o be_v able_a to_o prove_v this_o because_o you_o be_v so_o punctual_a you_o say_v for_o reform_v by_o the_o word_n but_o of_o this_o practice_n i_o much_o doubt_n 1_o my_o ground_n be_v because_o i_o find_v not_o one_o jota_n of_o any_o such_o thing_n in_o the_o new_a testament_n obj._n though_o you_o do_v not_o in_o the_o new_a testament_n yet_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n there_o be_v numb_a 8.10_o a._n that_o place_n be_v the_o only_a resuge_n but_o 1_o it_o be_v common_o answer_v that_o it_o be_v no_o fair_a argue_v to_o go_v to_o the_o old_a testament_n for_o one_o thing_n we_o will_v have_v and_o when_o another_o come_v to_o the_o same_o polity_n for_o a_o argument_n for_o their_o turn_n now_o to_o debar_v they_o and_o tell_v they_o this_o be_v the_o old_a polity_n either_o leave_n out_o the_o jewish_a polity_n altogether_o or_o else_o give_v other_o leave_v to_o fetch_v argument_n from_o thence_o as_o well_o as_o yourselves_o 2_o if_o you_o will_v go_v to_o that_o polity_n why_o may_v i_o not_o as_o well_o prove_v that_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n may_v ordain_v as_o well_o as_o moses_n do_v aaron_n levit._n 8._o 3_o but_o in_o that_o church_n at_o that_o time_n there_o be_v officer_n aaron_z and_o his_o son_n thence_o if_o that_o be_v a_o rule_n it_o must_v follow_v
observe_v it_o well_o there_o be_v that_o which_o answer_v the_o covenant_n you_o find_v make_v in_o scripture_n to_o say_v by_o that_o we_o be_v make_v a_o nationall_n church_n this_o be_v very_o silly_a yet_o i_o think_v there_o may_v be_v so_o much_o say_v for_o a_o nationall_n church_n that_o will_v not_o ready_o be_v answer_v but_o suppose_v the_o church_n in_o new_a england_n which_v god_n forbid_v shall_v decline_v etc._n etc._n if_o the_o general_n court_n shall_v make_v such_o a_o covenant_n to_o pass_v through_o all_o the_o church_n in_o the_o colony_n will_v it_o make_v a_o nationall_n church_n they_o will_v conceive_v their_o church_n still_o to_o be_v congregationall_a 3_o i_o make_v no_o doubt_n but_o you_o shall_v have_v find_v if_o you_o have_v but_o a_o little_a patience_n that_o when_o the_o minister_n have_v come_v to_o set_v up_o discipline_n they_o will_v have_v bring_v their_o people_n under_o some_o strict_a tie_n to_o subject_a to_o church_n discipline_n i_o have_v hear_v some_o speak_v of_o it_o they_o will_v have_v find_v it_o too_o lax_n that_o implicit_a consent_n to_o make_v people_n put_v in_o execution_n that_o matth._n 13._o read_v his_o first_o chapter_n in_o some_o church_n he_o say_v there_o be_v solennis_n protestatio_fw-la subjection_n be_v sub_fw-la discipliná_fw-la ecclesiasticâ_fw-la p._n 13._o 18.15_o 16_o etc._n etc._n as_o some_o have_v find_v before_o they_o and_o it_o be_v not_o without_o some_o cause_n that_o apollonius_n set_v down_o that_o as_o one_o thing_n that_o be_v require_v of_o a_o church-member_n and_o who_o they_o will_v admit_v to_o the_o lord_n supper_n that_o he_o shall_v promise_v to_o subject_v himself_o to_o discipline_n he_o tell_v we_o thus_o it_o be_v conclude_v upon_o in_o several_a synod_n he_o mention_n fix_v synod_n i_o have_v find_v the_o experience_n of_o this_o so_o already_o that_o i_o shall_v think_v myself_o in_o a_o poor_a case_n to_o exercise_v discipline_n without_o it_o the_o people_n feel_v some_o strict_a tie_n upon_o their_o spirit_n and_o i_o thank_v god_n i_o have_v know_v good_a effect_n by_o it_o 4_o if_o you_o will_v needs_o go_v close_o do_v you_o may_v enter_v into_o a_o close_a covenant_n as_o do_v those_o worthy_a christian_n in_o wetherfield_n in_o that_o old_a prophet_n day_n who_o set_v down_o their_o covenant_n in_o his_o seven_o treatise_n but_o they_o do_v not_o separate_v as_o you_o do_v excel_v those_o christian_n if_o you_o can_v the_o three_o proposal_n proposal_n the_o three_o proposal_n we_o will_v have_v no_o church-member_n but_o visible_a saint_n a._n this_o be_v a_o thing_n to_o be_v wish_v indeed_o and_o that_o i_o believe_v which_o the_o minister_n will_v be_v glad_a if_o they_o can_v attain_v it_o i_o give_v you_o instance_n before_o out_o of_o their_o book_n and_o it_o be_v that_o which_o they_o will_v put_v forth_o their_o power_n to_o effect_v so_o far_o as_o the_o state_n of_o the_o kingdom_n be_v capable_a of_o if_o once_o they_o be_v invest_v with_o power_n to_o exercise_v discipline_n and_o indeed_o as_o the_o condition_n of_o england_n stand_v there_o be_v need_n of_o a_o civil_a power_n to_o back_v they_o the_o case_n be_v not_o now_o as_o in_o the_o primitive_a time_n 2_o you_o must_v put_v a_o difference_n between_o church_n new_a erect_n and_o these_o in_o england_n which_o have_v be_v church_n so_o long_o when_o i_o raise_v a_o house_n new_a from_o the_o ground_n i_o may_v then_o do_v as_o i_o please_v but_o if_o i_o be_v mend_v of_o a_o old_a house_n i_o must_v do_v as_o well_o as_o i_o can_v repair_n by_o degree_n 3_o what_o will_v you_o have_v do_v with_o all_o the_o rest_n excommunicate_v they_o that_o be_v a_o piece_n of_o work_n indeed_o and_o beside_o there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o work_n to_o do_v before_o we_o come_v to_o that_o it_o may_v be_v many_o will_v not_o be_v find_v contumacious_a nay_o you_o see_v they_o do_v separate_v they_o from_o the_o lord_n supper_n and_o divers_a begin_v to_o look_v something_o more_o narrow_o to_o baptism_n 4_o how_o many_o corrupt_a member_n do_v you_o find_v in_o the_o church_n of_o corinth_n and_o galatia_n for_o the_o latter_a what_o a_o change_n be_v there_o make_v in_o their_o affection_n towards_o paul_n 287._o gillesp_n aar_n rod._n 287._o who_o close_o do_v they_o cleave_v to_o those_o judaize_v zelots_n who_o turn_v they_o away_o almost_o to_o another_o gospel_n insomuch_o that_o though_o paul_n wish_v those_o seducer_n be_v cut_v off_o gal._n 5.12_o i_o e._n by_o excommunication_n yet_o he_o do_v not_o peremptory_o command_v it_o renitente_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la the_o church_n of_o corinth_n have_v drink_v in_o vile_a error_n the_o woman_n it_o shall_v seem_v disorderly_a will_v speak_v in_o the_o church_n and_o for_o member_n 2_o cor._n 12.20_o 21._o you_o may_v conceive_v by_o the_o sin_n there_o mention_v what_o they_o be_v many_o of_o they_o ch._n 13.2_o 289._o aar_n rod_n 289._o paul_n indeed_o say_v he_o will_v not_o spare_v they_o this_o place_n master_n gillespie_n think_v give_v light_a to_o ch._n 10._o &_o 6._o when_o your_o obedience_n be_v fulfil_v our_o minister_n debarresuch_o from_o the_o supper_n 5_o if_o you_o do_v not_o thus_o separate_v from_o they_o they_o may_v do_v more_o towards_o the_o reform_n of_o their_o congregation_n but_o you_o weaken_v their_o hand_n as_o i_o shall_v touch_v hereafter_o 6_o but_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o visible_a saint_n what_o be_v require_v or_o how_o will_v you_o judge_v of_o one_o what_o will_v you_o have_v they_o real_a saint_n i_o suppose_v you_o do_v not_o think_v so_o cross_n to_o the_o text_n the_o floor_n the_o drag-net_n etc._n etc._n what_o will_v you_o have_v such_o as_o by_o the_o exact_a scrutiny_n that_o can_v be_v make_v we_o may_v judge_v to_o be_v saint_n real_o i_o desire_n your_o text_n for_o this_o do_v the_o apostle_n do_v thus_o when_o they_o baptize_v any_o sure_o they_o must_v either_o judge_v by_o a_o apostolical_a spirit_n but_o we_o see_v they_o be_v mistake_v if_o they_o do_v so_o or_o else_o they_o must_v stay_v a_o good_a while_n and_o try_v man_n winter_n they_o 5._o the_o church_n after_o take_v more_o time_n but_o they_o do_v not_o come_v to_o that_o exact_a scrutiny_n etc._n etc._n bell._n enter_v to_o 2._o l._n 2._o c._n 1._o s_o 5._o and_o summer_n they_o as_o we_o say_v before_o they_o do_v judge_v of_o their_o saint-ship_n but_o this_o they_o do_v not_o do_v they_o baptize_v they_o quick_o such_o member_n as_o the_o apostle_n admit_v we_o may_v or_o else_o give_v we_o text_n to_o the_o contrary_n i_o have_v touch_v this_o in_o another_o tract_n desire_v that_o those_o who_o be_v for_o such_o strictness_n in_o member_n will_v give_v we_o their_o ground_n remember_v doctor_n ames_n falsum_fw-la est_fw-la internas_fw-la virtutes_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la requiri_fw-la ut_fw-la aliquis_fw-la sit_fw-la in_o ecclesiâ_fw-la quoad_fw-la visibilem_fw-la ejus_fw-la statum_fw-la the_o four_o proposal_n we_o will_v have_v power_n in_o admission_n of_o member_n and_o in_o excommunication_n ans_fw-fr for_o admission_n of_o member_n 1_o when_o you_o bring_v proof_n out_o of_o the_o word_n what_o power_n church-member_n have_v exercise_v in_o admission_n of_o member_n i_o hope_v you_o shall_v find_v none_o shall_v debar_v you_o from_o have_v that_o power_n 2_o when_o there_o be_v member_n to_o be_v admit_v who_o never_o be_v church-member_n you_o shall_v find_v it_o grant_v but_o that_o be_v not_o our_o case_n here_o if_o you_o will_v have_v power_n in_o admission_n to_o sacrament_n you_o have_v that_o liberty_n give_v you_o to_o bring_v in_o testimony_n for_o or_o against_o and_o if_o you_o bring_v in_o sufficient_a proof_n against_o person_n you_o shall_v find_v they_o shall_v not_o be_v admit_v thus_o must_v you_o do_v in_o any_o church_n whatever_o if_o any_o good_a christian_a shall_v come_v and_o give_v in_o testimony_n for_o another_o the_o minister_n will_v glad_o receive_v it_o for_o excommunication_n the_o presbyterial_a minister_n will_v not_o excommunicate_v without_o the_o people_n consent_n you_o shall_v have_v liberty_n first_o ask_n leave_n of_o the_o minister_n who_o be_v the_o ruler_n and_o mouth_n of_o the_o congregation_n to_o propound_v any_o question_n sober_o and_o grave_o which_o you_o will_v have_v clear_v before_o you_o manifest_v your_o consent_n if_o there_o be_v any_o thing_n dark_a to_o you_o that_o so_o you_o may_v clear_o obey_v they_o for_o i_o hope_v you_o do_v not_o look_v to_o be_v equal_a with_o officer_n in_o this_o act_n and_o i_o hope_v this_o be_v more_o than_o ever_o you_o see_v practise_v in_o old_a time_n now_o that_o the_o minister_n will_v not_o act_n against_o the_o people_n i_o suppose_v they_o mean_v the_o body_n of_o the_o people_n for_o if_o they_o
liberty_n yet_o he_o so_o order_v their_o liberty_n that_o our_o minister_n will_v be_v glad_a if_o they_o have_v their_o church_n govern_v as_o be_v the_o church_n whereof_o himself_o together_o with_o mr._n na._n rogers_n be_v officer_n these_o be_v congregationall_a man_n schismate_fw-la de_fw-fr schismate_fw-la i_o will_v not_o rehearse_v what_o i_o find_v in_o camero_n because_o he_o write_v before_o these_o time_n and_o will_v be_v reckon_v for_o a_o presbyterian_a four_o ground_n he_o give_v for_o separation_n none_o of_o which_o i_o be_o sure_a our_o separatist_n can_v allege_v 1._o grievous_a and_o intolerable_a persecution_n 2._o when_o the_o church_n be_v heretical_a 3._o when_o idolatry_n be_v set_v up_o 4._o when_o the_o church_n be_v the_o seat_n of_o antichrist_n i_o shall_v conclude_v with_o a_o speech_n of_o he_o ut_fw-la nihil_fw-la aequè_fw-la arguit_fw-la ingenium_fw-la spiritus_fw-la christi_fw-la ac_fw-la studium_fw-la conservandae_fw-la societatis_fw-la &_o unionis_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la charitas_fw-la elucet_fw-la sic_fw-la etiam_fw-la nullum_fw-la est_fw-la evidentius_fw-la argumentum_fw-la pravitatis_fw-la ingenii_fw-la humani_fw-la unde_fw-la &_o inter_fw-la carnis_fw-la opera_fw-la contentienes_fw-la nominantur_fw-la quàm_fw-la tumultuandi_fw-la &_o rixandi_fw-la studium_fw-la object_n but_o you_o have_v speak_v against_o godly_a man_n all_o this_o while_n ans_fw-fr not_o against_o their_o godliness_n one_o word_n their_o schism_n &_o error_n only_o i_o have_v oppose_v but_o i_o know_v not_o what_o new_a divinity_n we_o have_v get_v up_o in_o these_o day_n that_o if_o they_o be_v godly_a man_n that_o drink_v in_o error_n or_o practice_v inordinate_o oh_o take_v heed_n how_o you_o speak_v they_o be_v godly_a man_n there_o may_v be_v a_o unwise_a speak_n when_o man_n shall_v only_o fling_v out_o against_o person_n but_o confute_v nothing_o but_o certain_o godly_a man_n deserve_v reproof_n as_o well_o as_o other_o i_o hope_v the_o be_v of_o a_o godly_a man_n do_v not_o make_v that_o to_o be_v no_o sin_n in_o he_o which_o be_v sin_n in_o another_o but_o here_o be_v the_o subtlety_n of_o satan_n and_o it_o be_v all_o the_o game_n he_o have_v to_o play_v in_o those_o time_n i_o must_v now_o say_v he_o get_v into_o a_o angel_n of_o light_n and_o i_o must_v work_v among_o these_o godly_a professor_n schism_n this_o w●●_n satan_n plot_n in_o cyprian_n time_n as_o he_o mention_n in_o his_o book_n de_fw-fr unitä_n eccles_n yet_o when_o he_o see_v his_o heathenish_a worship_n will_v not_o prosper_v but_o be_v cast_v down_o than_o he_o plague_v the_o church_n with_o heresy_n and_o schism_n if_o i_o can_v get_v some_o of_o those_o away_o i_o shall_v get_v other_o hollow_a one_o to_o cleave_v to_o they_o and_o make_v a_o party_n if_o i_o now_o make_v not_o a_o division_n among_o they_o but_o that_o they_o join_v all_o with_o one_o shoulder_n to_o set_v up_o christ_n kingdom_n and_o thrust_v down_o i_o it_o will_v go_v 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all_o mildness_n this_o be_v the_o only_a cause_n why_o mr._n edward_n rake_v up_o all_o he_o can_v against_o i_o and_o put_v it_o into_o print_n even_o such_o thing_n as_o never_o be_v in_o my_o thought_n but_o here_o you_o may_v see_v they_o stand_v not_o upon_o the_o suffrage_n of_o all_o the_o people_n five_o do_v the_o classical-man_n call_v for_o synod_n so_o do_v the_o congregational-man_n mr._n cotton_n keyes_n c._n 6._o mr._n norton_n respon_n ad_fw-la apollon_n p._n 112._o etc._n etc._n and_o certain_o they_o be_v man_n of_o strange_a spirit_n who_o deny_v synod_n to_o be_v useful_a and_o no_o ordinance_n of_o god_n i_o doubt_v he_o do_v not_o well_o consider_v what_o his_o pen_n let_v drop_n and_o leave_v it_o to_o posterity_n that_o he_o never_o see_v any_o good_a that_o come_v by_o any_o synod_n but_o rather_o the_o contrary_n a_o great_a clerk_n indeed_o he_o be_v but_o sure_o the_o man_n be_v in_o some_o passion_n i_o be_o sure_a i_o have_v know_v the_o contrary_a much_o 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their_o member_n not_o because_o of_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o church_n but_o because_o of_o the_o matter_n which_o be_v necessary_a and_o agreeable_a to_o god_n word_n that_o people_n may_v not_o examine_v decree_n of_o their_o synod_n according_a to_o god_n word_n that_o people_n may_v not_o reason_n or_o speak_v in_o their_o synod_n 246._o ib._n p._n 246._o we_o acknowledge_v no_o such_o synod_n this_o latter_a need_v a_o little_a fence_n otherwise_o we_o shall_v have_v confusion_n enough_o our_o church_n in_o new_a england_n choose_v out_o of_o every_o church_n two_o of_o the_o able_a of_o the_o private_a brethren_n and_o send_v they_o as_o their_o messenger_n these_o indeed_o have_v liberty_n to_o speak_v and_o propound_v doubt_n in_o the_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v not_o leave_v free_a for_o any_o body_n to_o speak_v that_o will_v mr._n gillespie_n state_n a_o question_n suppose_v a_o scandalous_a person_n will_v come_v to_o the_o sacrament_n 478_o aar_n rod._n 477_o 478_o the_o minister_n know_v he_o to_o be_v so_o advise_v the_o eldership_n to_o join_v with_o he_o and_o do_v their_o duty_n in_o keep_v this_o person_n away_o it_o may_v be_v they_o refuse_v appeal_v be_v make_v to_o high_a assembly_n classis_fw-la synod_n etc._n etc._n they_o it_o may_v be_v will_v judge_v he_o fit_a for_o the_o sacrament_n this_o be_v their_o sentence_n must_v this_o minister_n now_o obey_v the_o sentence_n of_o the_o classis_fw-la or_o synod_n his_o determination_n be_v that_o the_o minister_n be_v clear_a in_o his_o conscience_n and_o the_o matter_n of_o scandal_n sufficient_o prove_v he_o must_v not_o do_v a_o unlawful_a act_n in_o obedience_n to_o man_n but_o follow_v the_o rule_n 1_o tim._n 5.22_o keep_v thyself_o pure_a his_o conscience_n illuminate_v by_o god_n word_n be_v a_o rule_n to_o he_o of_o his_o own_o personal_a act_n or_o not_o act_v come_v to_o the_o congregational-man_n mr._n cotton_n say_v 25_o key_n p._n 25_o we_o dare_v not_o say_v that_o the_o 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any_o power_n invest_v with_o authority_n but_o if_o they_o enjoin_v a_o thing_n to_o be_v do_v and_o it_o be_v refuse_v that_o authority_n will_v reach_v further_o authoritas_fw-la cogit_fw-la as_o be_v the_o kind_n of_o the_o authority_n civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a bless_a burrough_n in_o answer_v to_o that_o which_o some_o will_v have_v 44._o iren._n p._n 44._o scil_n that_o a_o synod_n may_v formal_o excommunicate_v because_o by_o excommunication_n they_o i.e._n heretical_a church_n be_v put_v out_o of_o the_o kingdom_n of_o christ_n into_o the_o kingdom_n of_o satan_n and_o this_o will_v terrify_v say_v consider_v whether_o this_o be_v not_o do_v before_o and_o that_o with_o a_o authority_n of_o christ_n by_o those_o former_a six_o thing_n mention_v in_o the_o page_n before_o for_o heretical_a congregation_n or_o person_n be_v judge_v and_o declare_v in_o a_o solemn_a ordinance_n by_o the_o officer_n of_o christ_n gather_v together_o in_o his_o name_n to_o be_v such_o as_o 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dispute_n do_v so_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n that_o they_o appear_v to_o the_o magistrate_n unreasonable_o obstinate_a be_v banish_v d_o the_o city_n defen_n ag_n tomb._n 58._o ecclesiae_fw-la appellant_n magistratum_fw-la in_o causis_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la non_fw-la ad_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la declarandam_fw-la vel_fw-la disciplinam_fw-la exequendam_fw-la sed_fw-la ad_fw-la doctrinam_fw-la a_o cencilio_fw-la declaratam_fw-la vel_fw-la disciplinam_fw-la ab_fw-la ecclesiâ_fw-la applicatam_fw-la sanctione_n civili_fw-la confirmandam_fw-la the_o dury_n which_o mr._n cotton_n show_v to_o lie_v upon_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n infer_v as_o much_o as_o also_o mr._n burrough_n and_o thus_o it_o be_v in_o new_a england_n when_o the_o synod_n at_o which_o the_o civil_a power_n be_v present_a as_o to_o hear_v so_o to_o keep_v civil_a order_n have_v consute_v and_o condemn_v the_o error_n and_o heresy_n and_o so_o be_v break_v up_o than_o a_o general_n court_n be_v call_v which_o 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of_o corinth_n there_o be_v other_o point_n beside_o which_o i_o mention_v not_o but_o certain_o the_o controversy_n be_v not_o so_o clear_a as_o the_o controversy_n against_o papist_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n therefore_o i_o shall_v think_v that_o we_o have_v need_v close_o the_o more_o with_o these_o man_n a_o three_o consideration_n be_v this_o unto_o i_o it_o be_v something_o i_o know_v not_o how_o it_o take_v with_o other_o the_o strange_a thing_n that_o god_n in_o his_o providence_n have_v suffer_v to_o fall_v out_o in_o congregationall_a church_n i_o mean_v for_o division_n especial_o and_o error_n that_o charge_n can_v be_v deny_v of_o many_o congregationall_a member_n what_o error_n they_o have_v drink_v in_o and_o for_o division_n they_o be_v not_o secret_a thing_n but_o such_o as_o the_o whole_a nation_n know_v insomuch_o that_o i_o have_v hear_v a_o serious_a congregationall_a minister_n and_o a_o able_a man_n say_v when_o he_o have_v hear_v what_o crack_n and_o rending_n 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indeed_o where_o there_o be_v a_o sad_a example_n of_o this_o kind_n there_o also_o this_o use_n i_o make_v of_o these_o thing_n that_o we_o have_v need_n take_v another_o review_n of_o congregationall_a principle_n in_o respect_n of_o that_o power_n which_o be_v give_v to_o the_o fraternity_n and_o in_o the_o mean_a time_n to_o be_v very_o tender_a towards_o the_o classical_a brethren_n and_o study_v agreement_n with_o they_o the_o four_o the_o classical_a man_n be_v oppose_v in_o reform_v their_o church_n as_o well_o as_o the_o congregationall_a man_n now_o for_o these_o to_o be_v oppose_v not_o only_o by_o the_o profane_a part_n who_o they_o keep_v off_o from_o the_o lord_n snpper_n but_o to_o be_v oppose_v also_o by_o the_o congregationall_a man_n that_o they_o prove_v a_o grief_n to_o they_o this_o be_v a_o hard_a chapter_n certain_o we_o have_v need_n more_o close_o with_o they_o and_o help_v to_o comfort_v they_o rather_o than_o grieve_v they_o in_o their_o work_n they_o be_v scorn_v by_o the_o profane_a party_n let_v not_o we_o scorn_v they_o 5_o these_o nursery_n of_o error_n i_o mean_v the_o separatist_n who_o cast_v off_o orthodox_n officer_n be_v as_o bad_a enemy_n to_o the_o congregationall_a church_n as_o they_o be_v to_o the_o classical_a nay_o worser_o your_o member_n will_v quick_o drink_v in_o their_o poison_n yea_o and_o go_v away_o from_o you_o to_o they_o 119._o pag._n 119._o as_o experience_n have_v testify_v therefore_o it_o concern_v you_o to_o join_v with_o the_o classical_a man_n against_o they_o but_o by_o one_o passage_n i_o meet_v with_o in_o the_o london_n vindication_n it_o seem_v some_o congregationall_a man_n do_v not_o think_v so_o for_o they_o in_o their_o complaint_n to_o you_o thus_o speak_v be_v there_o not_o some_o of_o you_o that_o choose_v rather_o to_o join_v with_o anabaptist_n and_o episcopal_a man_n then_o with_o we_o and_o that_o will_v give_v letter_n dimissory_a to_o your_o member_n to_o depart_v from_o you_o to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o at_o the_o same_o time_n deny_v they_o to_o such_o as_o desire_v they_o for_o to_o join_v with_o church_n of_o our_o communion_n we_o charge_v not_o these_o thing_n upon_o you_o all_o but_o upon_o some_o who_o name_n we_o forbear_v to_o mention_v this_o be_v very_o strange_a but_o this_o confirm_v what_o i_o say_v before_o that_o the_o cause_n of_o our_o dis-union_n be_v not_o altogether_o in_o the_o classical_a man_n 6_o i_o pray_v consider_v what_o a_o fine_a game_n the_o devil_n have_v play_v by_o this_o opposition_n between_o we_o have_v he_o not_o turn_v our_o reformation_n into_o a_o deformation_n have_v he_o not_o cause_v the_o build_n of_o the_o temple_n to_o cease_v do_v not_o all_o thing_n that_o concern_v the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n stand_v at_o a_o stay_n what_o do_v we_o now_o indeed_o those_o who_o be_v for_o congregationall_a government_n have_v the_o opportunity_n to_o gather_v church_n as_o they_o call_v it_o but_o what_o become_v of_o the_o whole_a it_o be_v tell_v i_o when_o i_o be_v in_o spain_n which_o be_v the_o winter_n before_o naseby_n fight_n that_o divers_a that_o be_v in_o religious_a order_n that_o live_v there_o be_v get_v into_o england_n certain_o jesuit_n or_o devil_n have_v be_v here_o to_o hold_v the_o congregationall_a and_o classical_a brethren_n at_o such_o a_o distance_n that_o while_o they_o have_v be_v contend_v about_o government_n we_o be_v in_o danger_n of_o lose_v ordinance_n truth_n government_n and_o be_v swallow_v up_o with_o a_o deluge_n of_o error_n schism_n and_o heresy_n divide_v &_o impera_fw-la that_o have_v be_v satan_n project_n 7_o i_o beseech_v you_o consider_v whether_o we_o lie_v not_o open_a to_o god_n stroke_n be_v there_o not_o matter_n of_o provocation_n give_v he_o by_o reason_n of_o these_o division_n that_o his_o work_n stand_v at_o a_o stay_n error_n schism_n heresy_n and_o decay_v of_o godliness_n that_o follow_v upon_o these_o that_o he_o 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convert_v of_o soul_n and_o batter_v down_o the_o profaneness_n of_o our_o heart_n scatter_v our_o error_n and_o schism_n we_o shall_v not_o be_v a_o wonder_n of_o mercy_n to_o other_o nation_n but_o if_o god_n shall_v be_v please_v to_o let_v our_o heart_n feel_v his_o inward_a kingdom_n and_o our_o eye_n see_v his_o external_a visible_a kingdom_n after_o that_o manner_n exalt_v than_o lord_n some_o of_o we_o care_v not_o how_o soon_o we_o fall_v asleep_a finis_fw-la
to_o choose_v where_o there_o be_v no_o officer_n to_o guide_v they_o and_o many_o time_n very_o weak_a person_n 2._o it_o be_v very_o easy_a to_o choose_v one_o of_o these_o for_o v._o 21._o it_o be_v one_o who_o have_v accompany_v they_o from_o the_o time_n etc._n etc._n this_o be_v easy_a for_o the_o mean_a to_o know_v but_o to_o choose_v a_o man_n fit_a for_o a_o pastor_n require_v more_o skill_n than_o so_o 3._o if_o we_o observe_v it_o narrow_o they_o do_v not_o so_o proper_o elect_v the_o apostle_n for_o when_o they_o have_v appoint_v two_o joseph_n and_o mathias_n suppose_v one_o shall_v have_v ask_v peter_n or_o the_o rest_n which_o of_o these_o be_v the_o apostle_n he_o must_v have_v say_v he_o can_v not_o tell_v proper_o god_n make_v the_o election_n then_o they_o know_v who_o be_v the_o apostle_n like_v to_o some_o corporation_n in_o the_o choice_n of_o a_o mayor_n the_o floor_n nominate_v two_o but_o the_o alderman_n choose_v which_o they_o will_v have_v whence_o the_o people_n say_v the_o alderman_n choose_v the_o mayor_n 1._o something_o may_v here_o be_v gather_v for_o popular_a election_n but_o very_o different_a be_v this_o practice_n from_o we_o i_o can_v add_v other_o scruple_n but_o i_o forbear_v 2_o the_o second_o place_n be_v act._n 6.3_o a_o very_a clear_a place_n for_o the_o popular_a election_n of_o a_o deacon_n but_o the_o last_o word_n of_o the_o verse_n do_v very_o much_o shake_v this_o notion_n of_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n yea_o it_o shake_v the_o essential_a causality_n of_o popular_a election_n do_v you_o look_v on_o etc._n etc._n but_o they_o add_v who_o we_o may_v appoint_v over_o this_o business_n how_o do_v the_o apostle_n appoint_v they_o over_o the_o business_n it_o be_v by_o ordination_n vers_n 16._o those_o that_o do_v authoritative_o appoint_v another_o or_o other_o over_o some_o business_n they_o put_v forth_o a_o causal_n virtue_n sure_o in_o that_o appoint_v these_o appoint_v by_o this_o act_n of_o ordination_n the_o apostle_n do_v not_o not_o meddle_v here_o with_o the_o election_n then_o the_o apostle_n ordination_n be_v more_o than_o a_o adjunct_n from_o this_o place_n divine_v argue_v common_o if_o they_o may_v choose_v deacon_n then_o much_o more_o pastor_n to_o who_o they_o be_v more_o engage_v must_v honour_v maintain_v they_o etc._n etc._n thus_o we_o argue_v one_o while_o a_o majori_fw-la the_o people_n elect_v a_o apostle_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v elect_v a_o pastor_n here_o now_o a_o minori_fw-la the_o people_n elect_v a_o deacon_n ergo_fw-la they_o may_v elect_v a_o pastor_n but_o then_o those_o axiom_n one_o of_o they_o must_v be_v false_a a_o majori_fw-la licet_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d solummodo_fw-la &_o à_fw-la minori_fw-la solùm_fw-la 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d both_o which_o experience_n prove_v to_o be_v false_a and_o logician_n observe_v it_o but_o put_v the_o case_n we_o shall_v question_v this_o argument_n the_o people_n may_v elect_v a_o deacon_n ergo_fw-la their_o pastor_n election_n follow_v the_o judgement_n and_o be_v guide_v by_o it_o but_o must_v we_o needs_o suppose_v the_o people_n to_o be_v as_o able_a to_o judge_v who_o be_v fit_a for_o a_o pastor_n as_o who_o be_v fit_a for_o a_o deacon_n dr._n ames_n say_v à_fw-la minori_fw-la ad_fw-la majus_fw-la si_fw-la quantitas_fw-la probabilitatis_fw-la intelligatur_fw-la semper_fw-la concluditur_fw-la affirmatè_fw-la be_v this_o as_o probable_a 143._o thes_n log_n 143._o sure_o it_o be_v less_o probable_a that_o the_o people_n shall_v be_v fit_a to_o judge_v of_o the_o fitness_n of_o a_o pastor_n than_o a_o deacon_n i_o be_o confident_a there_o be_v hundred_o of_o congregation_n in_o england_n in_o which_o there_o be_v many_o real_a saint_n yet_o all_o the_o jesuit_n in_o rome_n may_v scatter_v themselves_o into_o these_o congregation_n and_o not_o be_v discern_v if_o the_o people_n be_v leave_v alone_o to_o their_o own_o election_n 23._o medul_a l._n 1._o c._n 39_o s_o 31._o &_o bel._n enter_v to._n 2._o l._n 3._o c._n 2._o s_o 23._o hence_o therefore_o our_o divine_n dare_v not_o trust_v the_o people_n alone_o with_o the_o election_n of_o a_o officer_n but_o tell_v we_o they_o must_v have_v the_o counsel_n of_o the_o presbyter_n as_o dr._n ames_n and_o mr._n cartwright_n upon_o act._n 14.23_o rhem._n test_n we_o do_v not_o only_o give_v unto_o the_o bishop_n scripture_n bishop_n ordination_n but_o also_o we_o make_v they_o the_o chief_a and_o director_n in_o the_o election_n say_v he_o where_o be_v this_o practise_v the_o three_o be_v that_o of_o act._n 14.23_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o certain_o if_o we_o come_v to_o find_v out_o the_o substantive_n to_o this_o participle_n they_o must_v be_v the_o same_o which_o be_v substantive_n to_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d and_o they_o be_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n i_o know_v what_o be_v say_v about_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d to_o defend_v the_o people_n election_n as_o the_o custom_n be_v take_v from_o the_o grecian_n dr._n 65._o to._n 4._o l._n 5._o c._n 14._o s_o 65._o ames_n say_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d apud_fw-la veteres_fw-la idem_fw-la sepe_fw-la sonant_fw-la so_o it_o appear_v by_o that_o passage_n of_o basil_n quote_v by_o chamier_n to_o prove_v that_o no_o private_a person_n may_v baptise_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d but_o if_o it_o it_o be_v take_v in_o that_o sense_n here_o i_o do_v not_o know_v how_o it_o will_v pleasure_v the_o people_n unless_o we_o shall_v go_v cross_a to_o the_o gramaticall_a construction_n the_o sum_n be_v barnabas_n zanchy_a in_o 4_o praec_fw-la calvin_n in_o loc_n piscat_fw-la in_o loc_n ob_n 2_o malcol_n in_o loc_n diodat_n in_o loc_n english_a annot._n &c_n &c_n expound_v it_o of_o the_o ordination_n of_o paul_n &_o barnabas_n there_o be_v no_o place_n bring_v for_o the_o people_n election_n but_o those_o who_o be_v but_o shallow_a will_v find_v enough_o from_o the_o text_n to_o wrangle_v very_o hard_o thouh_o i_o be_o for_o the_o people_n election_n myself_o the_o text_n bring_v for_o ordination_n be_v these_o act._n 6.6_o when_o they_o have_v pray_v they_o lay_v on_o hand_n on_o they_o act._n 13.3_o when_o they_o have_v fast_v and_o pray_v and_o lay_v on_o hand_n etc._n etc._n they_o do_v not_o separate_v paul_n and_o barnabas_n by_o election_n but_o ordination_n heb._n 6.2_o the_o lay_n of_o band_n there_o be_v mean_v of_o ordination_n say_v pareus_n dickson_n gillespie_n johnson_n h._n jacob_n urge_v the_o text_n so_o that_o he_o will_v overthrow_v all_o the_o ministry_n of_o england_n because_o he_o say_v they_o err_v in_o the_o foundation_n but_o he_o mistake_v mr._n hooker_n prove_v church-discipline_n to_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n from_o this_o place_n thus_o that_o which_o be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n that_o have_v divine_a institution_n etc._n etc._n but_o church-discipline_n be_v a_o fundamental_a point_n of_o religion_n heb._n 6._o lay_v on_o of_o hand_n be_v by_o a_o metonymy_n of_o the_o adjunct_n put_v for_o ordination_n ordination_n one_o particular_a put_v for_o the_o whole_a of_o church_n discipline_n so_o mr._n hooker_n 1_o tim._n 4.14_o with_o the_o lay_v on_o of_o the_o hand_n of_o the_o presbytery_n i_o know_v not_o that_o this_o text_n be_v question_v by_o our_o divine_n mr._n hooker_n and_o our_o new_a england_n divine_v from_o this_o text_n conceive_v imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o ordination_n to_o be_v near_a the_o rule_n as_o i_o have_v quote_v they_o before_o 1_o tim._n 5.22_o though_o some_o will_v have_v it_o of_o the_o admit_v of_o penitent_n of_o which_o we_o have_v no_o example_n in_o scripture_n yet_o the_o common_a interpretation_n be_v of_o imposition_n of_o hand_n in_o ordination_n this_o interpretation_n have_v other_o scripture_n to_o confirm_v it_o the_o other_z none_o 1_o tit._n 5._o ordain_v elder_n in_o every_o city_n i_o do_v not_o find_v that_o our_o divine_n oppose_v this_o place_n neither_o what_o sectary_n carp_v at_o i_o weigh_v not_o rom._n 37._o miscel_n p._n 37._o 10.15_o how_o shall_v they_o preach_v except_o they_o be_v send_v mr._n gillespy_n have_v i_o think_v sufficient_o clear_v this_o text._n to_o be_v sure_a he_o be_v not_o alone_o in_o his_o interpretation_n he_o likewise_o clear_v ordination_n from_o that_o heb._n 5.4_o and_o first_o verse_n now_o since_o the_o scripture_n be_v more_o copious_a and_o plain_a in_o give_v we_o example_n and_o precedent_n of_o ordination_n of_o minister_n then_o of_o the_o people_n election_n of_o minister_n though_o i_o grant_v something_o may_v well_o be_v draw_v out_o of_o those_o text_n for_o election_n against_o the_o papist_n beside_o the_o ancient_a course_n of_o the_o church_n i_o can_v see_v any_o reason_n if_o scripture_n be_v our_o guide_n why_o we_o shall_v clothe_v these_o text_n for_o ordination_n
with_o this_o logical_a affection_n of_o a_o adjunct_n and_o the_o other_o with_o the_o affection_n of_o a_o formal_a cause_n i_o shall_v put_v most_o upon_o that_o where_o the_o scripture_n be_v plain_a and_o full_a which_o i_o be_o sure_a in_o any_o man_n esteem_n that_o observe_v those_o text_n with_o a_o impartial_a eye_n be_v ordination_n whether_o ordination_n according_a to_o scripture-light_n be_v not_o as_o essential_a to_o a_o minister_n as_o election_n vis_fw-la vind._n chu_o cath._n vis_fw-la let_v any_o one_o judge_n i_o think_v mr._n hudson_n speak_v christianly_o i_o prefer_v one_o divine_a testimony_n before_o ten_o argument_n and_o one_o good_a argument_n before_o ten_o humane_a testimony_n but_o thus_o by_o clothing_n these_o scripture_n with_o these_o logical_a affection_n we_o have_v cry_v up_o election_n and_o cry_v down_o ordination_n sectary_n take_v advantage_n of_o this_o and_o hence_o come_v in_o our_o disorder_n ordination_n be_v a_o divine_a institution_n ars_fw-la est_fw-la in_o rebus_fw-la and_o logic_n be_v a_o general_a art_n so_o that_o we_o must_v give_v some_o logical_a term_n to_o election_n and_o ordination_n i_o deny_v not_o this_o only_o it_o be_v good_a to_o bring_v art_n to_o scripture_n and_o not_o carry_v scripture_n to_o art_n if_o you_o ask_v what_o logical_a argument_n be_v there_o between_o a_o minister_n call_v and_o election_n and_o ordination_n praec_fw-la i_o say_v before_o these_o two_o constitute_v the_o form_n of_o a_o minister_n mutatâ_fw-la affectione_n mutatur_fw-la argumentum_fw-la survey_v par_fw-fr 2._o pag._n 68_o in_o 4_o praec_fw-la what_o if_o i_o shall_v answer_v the_o call_n be_v totum_fw-la integrale_fw-la election_n and_o ordination_n be_v membra_fw-la constitute_v this_o totum_fw-la thus_o i_o make_v election_n to_o be_v essential_a and_o so_o i_o speak_v the_o high_a of_o election_n though_o i_o must_v profess_v upon_o serious_a thought_n i_o rather_o question_v whether_o election_n be_v essential_a than_o i_o do_v ordination_n reverend_a mr._n hooker_n indeed_o say_v ordination_n be_v but_o the_o approbation_n of_o a_o person_n constitute_v in_o his_o office_n but_o i_o be_o apt_a to_o think_v ordination_n do_v most_o respect_n that_o inward_a or_o arcanam_fw-la vocationem_fw-la as_o zanchy_a call_v it_o which_o god_n give_v a_o man_n into_o the_o ministry_n fit_v and_o qualify_a of_o a_o man_n first_o for_o the_o work_n which_o none_o else_o can_v do_v and_o give_v he_o a_o earnest_a desire_n to_o the_o work_n god_n do_v there_o as_o it_o be_v separate_v he_o inward_o and_o now_o he_o do_v it_o outward_o in_o ordination_n the_o particular_a congregation_n do_v but_o give_v he_o a_o call_v by_o their_o election_n and_o subjection_n to_o he_o to_o exercise_v this_o power_n among_o they_o pro_fw-la hic_fw-la &_o nunc_fw-la that_o which_o move_v i_o to_o think_v so_o be_v first_o church_n may_v not_o choose_v who_o they_o listen_v as_o do_v our_o sectary_n but_o person_n qualify_v by_o god_n second_o the_o scripture_n be_v so_o full_a and_o clear_a for_o ordination_n over_o it_o be_v for_o election_n though_o i_o deny_v not_o but_o election_n may_v well_o be_v prove_v three_o because_o a_o man_n may_v in_o some_o case_n be_v ordain_v to_o the_o ministry_n when_o no_o election_n of_o the_o people_n do_v precede_v as_o i_o shall_v give_v instance_n afterward_o 2._o i_o argue_v thus_o if_o the_o election_n of_o the_o people_n do_v give_v the_o essential_o to_o a_o officer_n then_o may_v a_o man_n elect_v execute_v all_o official_a power_n without_o ordination_n and_o that_o common_o but_o no_o man_n may_v execute_v official_a power_n and_o that_o common_o without_o ordination_n ergo_fw-la election_n do_v not_o give_v the_o essentials_n by_o the_o essential_o here_o he_o mean_v the_o formal_a cause_n for_o as_o for_o the_o material_a cause_n they_o can_v give_v that_o and_o we_o have_v but_o two_o cause_n that_o do_v dare_v essentiam_fw-la though_o all_o four_o do_v dare_v esse_fw-la the_o consequence_n be_v clear_a that_o they_o may_v execute_v etc._n etc._n without_o ordination_n for_o forma_fw-la that_fw-mi operari_fw-la but_o election_n give_v the_o form_n say_v these_o reverend_a man_n and_o ordination_n be_v but_o a_o adjunct_n effect_n do_v not_o depend_v upon_o adjunct_n for_o operation_n the_o form_n give_v that_o the_o minor_a that_o they_o must_v not_o do_v so_o first_o it_o be_v cross_v to_o scripture_n precedent_n if_o it_o be_v but_o a_o deacon_n 9_o survey_v part_n 3._o pag._n 9_o say_v mr._n hooker_n yet_o we_o see_v he_o be_v ordain_v second_o it_o be_v cross_a to_o your_o own_o practice_n it_o be_v frequent_a in_o new_a england_n to_o have_v a_o man_n elect_v and_o preach_v half_a a_o year_n a_o whole_a year_n yea_o i_o know_v one_o elect_v and_o preach_v two_o year_n to_o his_o people_n and_o they_o maintain_v he_o all_o that_o while_n and_o yet_o all_o that_o time_n he_o never_o administer_v a_o sacrament_n to_o his_o people_n but_o he_o and_o they_o when_o they_o will_v partake_v of_o the_o lord_n supper_n go_v ten_o mile_n to_o the_o church_n out_o of_o which_o they_o issue_v to_o receive_v the_o sacrament_n but_o this_o be_v very_o hard_a and_o needless_a if_o he_o have_v the_o form_n give_v he_o in_o election_n 2._o that_o which_o do_v next_o invest_v a_o man_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o may_v perform_v official_a act_n and_o before_o which_o he_o can_v not_o do_v so_o that_o do_v give_v essence_n and_o consequent_o be_v not_o a_o mere_a adjunct_n but_o ordination_n do_v next_o invest_v a_o minister_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o may_v perfome_v official_a act_n which_o before_o he_o can_v not_o do_v ergo_fw-la the_o minor_a be_v clear_a by_o the_o scripture_n example_n second_o it_o be_v clear_a by_o your_o own_o practice_n for_o those_o who_o for_o two_o year_n and_o more_o stand_v only_o by_o election_n but_o that_o while_o dispense_v no_o sacrament_n when_o they_o be_v ordain_v do_v present_o put_v forth_o all_o official_a act_n the_o major_a take_v all_o together_o i_o suppose_v will_v not_o be_v deny_v it_o do_v next_o invest_v a_o man_n with_o official_a power_n so_o as_o now_o he_o can_v perform_v official_a act_n and_o before_o he_o can_v not_o do_v it_o to_o say_v he_o have_v official_a power_n before_o give_v he_o by_o election_n but_o can_v not_o act_v it_o be_v strange_a frustra_fw-la est_fw-la illa_fw-la potentia_fw-la etc._n etc._n have_v such_o a_o person_n continue_v twice_o as_o long_o unordain_v he_o have_v not_o execute_v any_o official_a power_n nay_o his_o preach_v all_o that_o time_n be_v not_o esteem_v preach_v by_o way_n of_o office_n neither_o can_v it_o be_v say_v such_o preach_v only_o upon_o trial_n for_o i_o now_o speak_v of_o such_o as_o have_v be_v try_v before_o nay_o have_v be_v preacher_n in_o england_n long_o before_o they_o go_v over_o and_o such_o i_o be_o sure_a as_o the_o people_n will_v willing_o have_v they_o ordain_v within_o one_o month_n after_o they_o have_v choose_v they_o they_o be_v so_o well_o satisfy_v in_o the_o person_n who_o they_o have_v choose_v four_o it_o be_v something_o that_o solemnity_n the_o scripture_n express_v that_o be_v in_o the_o ordination_n of_o minister_n prayer_n and_o fast_v and_o imposition_n of_o hand_n we_o read_v of_o no_o such_o solemnity_n in_o election_n though_o people_n ought_v to_o pray_v before_o they_o do_v choose_v so_o it_o be_v in_o new_a england_n this_o act_n be_v very_o solemn_a when_o notice_n be_v give_v of_o the_o ordination_n of_o a_o officer_n to_o the_o several_a church_n as_o before_o any_o ordination_n all_o the_o church_n adjacent_a have_v notice_n give_v it_o run_v in_o that_o form_n there_o be_v a_o ordination_n to_o be_v this_o week_n at_o such_o a_o church_n etc._n etc._n for_o the_o election_n of_o the_o person_n we_o know_v it_o long_o before_o who_o they_o have_v choose_v and_o though_o the_o people_n do_v by_o their_o suffrage_n declare_v their_o election_n in_o this_o day_n of_o humiliation_n yet_o they_o declare_v no_o more_o than_o the_o country_n know_v before_o and_o i_o hope_v you_o will_v not_o say_v he_o be_v not_o elect_v before_o now_o when_o first_o they_o choose_v he_o to_o go_v with_o they_o or_o come_v to_o they_o and_o there_o continue_v a_o year_n or_o two_o preach_v &_o they_o contribute_v to_o his_o maintenance_n the_o same_o i_o may_v say_v in_o regard_n of_o myself_o i_o have_v as_o full_a a_o election_n of_o my_o people_n at_o my_o first_o come_n as_o be_v declare_v at_o my_o ordination_n and_o it_o be_v above_o two_o year_n before_o i_o can_v get_v my_o ordination_n in_o the_o place_n where_o i_o be_v elect_v through_o the_o trouble_n of_o the_o time_n but_o all_o that_o while_o i_o do_v not_o conceive_v myself_o invest_v with_o