Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	church_n	true_a	visible_a	3,262	5	9.6634	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A43313	An essay for the discovery and discouraging of the new sprung schism raised and maintained by Mr Simon Henden of Bennenden in Kent. Exhibited in some passages of writing which have gone between Mr John Elmeston of Cranebroke, and the same M. Henden. Published according to order.	Elmeston, John.; Henden, Simon, attributed name.	1652 (1652)	Wing H1429B; ESTC R216858	34,427	52

superstitions and inventions in the room of them Christs Ordinances may and do still remain Christs Ordinances for matter and substance though in wrong hands and abused As the great Seale of the Kingdome is still the right and true Seale though in the hands of an usurping Lord Keeper and imployed to wrongfull ends Obj. But the Pope had another Key given him and other Officers as Locusts Revel. 9. Answ. Let it be so that another Key was given to the Pope viz. when he claimed to be an Universal Bishop Christs Vicar and the Head of the Church under him and so usurped an illimitted power in businesses secular and spiritual and that he had with all other Officers called Locusts viz. Monks Friars Priests Abbats Cardinals and the whole Popish Clergy yet with all subtilty he did retain the Key of Christs Discipline in Ordination Excommunication Suspension c. and made use of it to promote his own Kingdom yea and had for substance some of the Officers ordained by Christ such as were Preachers and Administrers of holy things in particular Congregations though under other names as Parsons and Vicars and not without some corruption in their admission and administration Notwithstanding as amongst all the corruptions under Popery Baptism for the substance remained true and right in as much as such as were baptized were baptized In the Name of the Father Sonne and holy Ghost according to the form by Christ appointed Neither have any taught or affirmed That Baptism under Popery was or is null and to be repealed So for the substance a true and right Ministry might be and was there found viz. such a one as by which men were called and set aside to preach the Word and minister the holy things of God Object There was no other face of Officials among Papists but of these Locusts in Luthers time who himself was a Monk Answ. There was among Papists in and before Luthers time Officials as you stile them which are not to be reckoned among these Locusts but such as the holy Ghost in the Apocalyps doth honour and account of as true and worthy Ministers of Christ though what outward calling they had was from Popish Bishops and Presbyters and themselves were Monks and Friars or of some such Popish order It cannot be denied that many of those which during the Apostasie for twelve hundred and sixty years did stand up by Writing and Preaching to witnesse Truth against Popery were Bishops Priests Monks or Friars as in our England Bishop Grosted John Wickliff a Priest in other Countreys Taulerus a Preacher John Hus and Jerom of Prague Priests Savaralona a Monk and one Sylvester a Friar with many other the like All which notwithstanding that their Ordination was according to the times from Popish Bishops and their order superstitious yet the holy Ghost doth reckon of them as Christs faithfull Witnesses and so his true and lawfull Ministers and not any of those Locusts which came out of the smoke of the bottomlesse pit So Chap 1● 6 8 9. there are three Angels which in course follow one another preaching the Gospel and declaiming against Babylon and the Beast Who are these now Not proper Angels coming from heaven but rather according to the currant of Interpreters a series and rank of Ministers which were raised up by the Lord by their preaching to make way for the ruine of the Pope and restoring the Church such as by some learned men are named in particular viz. Ockam John of Gaunt Dantes our John Wickliff John Hus Jerom of Prague Luther men that lived in the Church of Rome had their external calling from that Church were of some of their Popish orders and yet are acknowledged to be Angels as well as those of the seven Churches of Asia that is true Ministers of Christ raised sent and authorized by him It doth not then derogate from the truth of an official Ministry if he be a sound Preacher of the Gospel that a man hath been ordained thereunto by a Bishop Popish not only in regard of the Office but in Doctrine also But this acknowledgment of such for Angels doth approve such Ordination good for substance though in some things it be corrupt and defective as before I said of baptizing It is then a frivolous cavil and which by this sentence of the holy Ghost is put to silence that men make against our English Ministers as Antichristian because ordained by Bishops when such so ordained are called Angels and their Ordination is conferted on them by Bishops which were sound in the profession of the Gospel Presbyters and Preachers of the Gospel and in the worke did joyne other Presbyters with them Object But the visible Church it self failed which is the foundation of these Officials and latter Ordinances and so these must needs fail Answ. This is somewhat indeed Nay so much as will carry the cause if it be made good It is not true as is before shewed That the visible Church is the foundation of these Officials or latter Ordinances but Christs Institution and promise but the visible Church is invested with a power and right to use them and that onely and not any other civil or heretical Society and for the Churches good and service they were by Christ appointed So that if there were in those times of the Apostasie no visible Church it may be granted that they failed since there was no Church which had power to use them or for whose service they were to be used But me thinks for you to say That the visible Church hath failed is much one as if you should affirm That the pillars of the earth were broken down and overthrown For the visible Church standeth on as firm a foundation as they that is Gods Ordinance Power and Faithfulness Concerning which point by a visible Church may be meant a company of Christians with their seed joyned together in one place and setled in a right and compleat order for the worship of God and exercise of all Gods Ordinances Now that there hath been such a visible Church all along the Apostasie in any one place or in many places successively cannot I think easily be shewed nor is it needfull for this matter to be proved Next by a visible Church may be meant a company of persons professing the true Religion abstaining from false worship and worshipping God in a pure way though for the most dispersed in sundry places and meetings for Gods worship but in small companies Such a Church of God certainly hath been and shall be perpetual Such a Church of God there was in Israel under their great Apostasie viz. A company that did not bow the knee to Baal 1 King 18. 19. and did in solemn times meet for the main parts of Gods worship as hearing of his Word and Prayer 2 Kings 4. 23. though not for Sacrifice which ordinarily was onely to be offered at the Temple Such a one was there under the Babylonish Captivity

view of all the Israelites so those Books of Scripture though I exclude none which are plainest and most obvious to the understanding of all Christians are specially to be accounted as our pillar of cloud and fire to direct us how and where in all ages we should follow the Lamb Thirdly It is strange to me that you should affirm That the foundation of the Beast doth consist in an usurped power of Church-Discipline footed on mans will without Gods call It is true that what Discipline is exercised only on mans will without Gods call is bestial as you term it and Antichristian As 1. That which for the thing it self was wholly invented by Antichrist not being once mentioned in the Gospel such was amongst others the Popes interdicting of whole Realms for having any service of God used in them upon their offending against his commands and Ordinances 2. And if for the matter it self it were Christs Discipline yet it was managed not by the hands of Christs Officers but of Antichrist and against Christs faithfull servants such was Excommunication exercised by the Pope papal Bishops Commissaries and the like Notwithstanding Discipline nor the usurped power of it cannot be the foundation of the Beast There are three things in Christian and so in Antichristian Religion Doctrine Worship and Discipline and these so answer one another that look what place any one of them hath in the one the same it hath in the other Religion Now none ever did or can affirm Discipline to be the foundation of Christian Religion it is but as the roof or at best but as the wals of it and serves to beautifie or to guard and preserve it It is sound Doctrine in the principles of faith that is the foundation of Christian Religion 1 Cor 3. 11. So it is the false Doctrine of the Roman Church that is the foundation of the Beast and Antichristian Religion And this the Apostle S. John doth teach 1 Joh 4. 23. Every one that confesseth Christ to be come in the flesh is of God but every one that denieth Christ to be come in the flesh is not of God this is the spirit of Antichrist It is in effect as much as if he had said Sound Doctrine concerning Christ his Nature Person and Offices is the main ground and mark of Christian Religion and false doctrine touching these things the principal note and ground of Antichristian Religion Besides the Popes extravagant exercise of Discipline in excommunicating suspending c. not onely single persons but whole Nations and disposing all Church-dignities c. was founded on that false Doctrine which was first laid That the Pope was an Vniversal Bishop Vicar of Christ and the visible Head of the Church Doctrine then is the foundation of the Beast and not the usurped power of Church-Discipline Lastly None can comply with the Beast in the foundation of his estate without losse of his salvation as who doth lie and relie on some other besides the onely foundation of salvation which is Jesus Christ and worshippeth the Beast in acknowledging him for the Vicar of Christ in the Church and supreme Head under him and submits to his Decrees and new Articles of faith But many may and have too much complied with the Beast in the exercise of Discipline viz. Excommunication Suspension Ordination c managing it in a Popish manner whom yet we have just cause to acknowledge and should deal most uncharitably not to acknowledge for the main to have been godly Christians and out of doubt saved Such as were those Diocesan Bishops in Queen Maries dayes Ridley Latimer Hooper c. and Grindal Jewel and others in Queen Elizabeths Reign Fourthly It is a new conceit not heard of before among Interpreters of the Apocalyps and which I cannot imbrace That in these our times we are called onely to separating from Babylon and rewarding her so that upon separating from her if Gods people go further as to set up reformed Churches and gather themselves into Church-order it is in your opinion against or at least without Gods command But First This is a course flat contrary to that which the Lord hath followed and prescribed to his people in former times whose separation from Idolaters and prophane Nations was still accompanied with a present setting up of a Church-society for Gods service and mutual edification No sooner did God call Abraham out of his idolatrous Countrey but he set up a visible Church in his Family teaching him to call on God and set up alturs for his Worship Gen. 12. 8 and furnishing him with some power of Discipline Genes 17. 14. and 18. 19. So when the Lord brought the Israelites out of Aegypt he brought them not out to wander up and down as a confused multitude but within short time formed them into a Church and within a year or thereabouts gave them the Law furnished them with a Tabernacle Sacrifices Ministry and Ordinances of all sorts This did the Jews also upon their return out of Babylon take to be their duty in a Church-way to set up Gods worship in building the Temple providing Sacrifices restoring the Ministery and ordering means for them And when the Jews slacked their hand this way upon a pretence that the due time to build the house of God was not yet come much like as you now say it is not yet time to set up visible Churches or Church-Discipline they were reproved for the slacknesse and vain pretence by the Prophet Haggai Hag. 1. 3 5. And did not the Apostles the like also at the first preaching of the Gospel so call men from Paganism and Judaism as those that did separate from them and imbrace the Gospel were with all convenient speed gathered and formed into Christian Churches to exercise Gods Worship and Discipline among themselves And what sound reason can be given why the separation Gods people are called to Revel. 18. 4. should not be thus presently followed with joyning together in visible Churches to serve God aright and enjoy all his Ordinances but that they must remain a separated people without any Church-order among themselves untill all the vials be poured out that is none knows how long Secondly This is against a common rule for interpretation of Scripture Among which rules this is an approved one That what Scripture doth command the avoiding any thing as evil the same doth virtually command the pursuing of the contrary good Hence commonly those two commands go together Flee evil and follow good Psal. 34. 14. Isa. 16. 17. Rom. 12. 9. and in many other places The reason whereof is plain because as the perfection of a good tree is not in wanting bad fruit but in bearing good so the true goodnesse of a Christian is not in forbearing evil but in doing good This then is certain that the voice from Heaven which cals Gods people to depart from Babylon as idolatrous and to keep themselves from her sins doth virtually call upon them