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cause_n church_n true_a visible_a 3,262 5 9.6634 5 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A27014 Sacrilegious desertion of the holy ministery rebuked, and tolerated preaching of the gospel vindicated, against the reasonings of a confident questionist, in a book called Toleration not abused; with counsil to the nonconformists, and petition to the pious conformists / by one that is consecrated to the sacred ministry, and is resolved not to be a deserter of it ... Baxter, Richard, 1615-1691. 1672 (1672) Wing B1380; ESTC R5946 61,174 146

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answ_n 1._o such_o confidence_n upon_o such_o insignificant_a reason_n be_v a_o great_a dishonour_n to_o the_o wit_n and_o humility_n of_o the_o author_n he_o that_o no_o better_o know_v their_o judgement_n can_v tell_v you_o what_o all_o the_o light_n of_o the_o presbyterian_a conscience_n be_v 2._o he_o can_v prove_v that_o our_o ministry_n be_v needless_a sinful_a etc._n etc._n because_o he_o can_v call_v the_o exercise_n of_o it_o separation_n as_o if_o the_o paucity_n of_o ignorant_a and_o ungodly_a soul_n and_o the_o sufficient_a number_n ability_n zeal_n and_o diligence_n of_o the_o conformist_n make_v we_o and_o our_o labour_n needless_a indeed_o alas_o what_o thought_n have_v these_o man_n of_o soul_n of_o sin_n of_o holiness_n of_o repentance_n and_o of_o their_o own_o sufficiency_n and_o labour_n but_o sir_n who_o make_v you_o a_o fit_a judge_n of_o the_o need_n of_o soul_n than_o themselves_o and_o all_o other_o next_o persuade_v we_o that_o tutor_n be_v needless_a because_o all_o in_o england_n be_v bear_v learned_a i_o have_v much_o ado_n to_o get_v servant_n in_o my_o own_o family_n that_o have_v tolerable_a knowledge_n and_o piety_n and_o can_v our_o conformist_n alone_o sufficient_o teach_v many_o hundred_o family_n and_o prove_v that_o other_o man_n help_n be_v needless_a try_v first_o whether_o you_o can_v persuade_v man_n that_o you_o alone_o be_v sufficient_a to_o teach_v all_o the_o child_n in_o your_o parish_n to_o speak_v and_o to_o dress_v they_o and_o feed_v they_o and_o that_o all_o other_o person_n help_v be_v needless_a get_v they_o to_o fast_o all_o till_o you_o seed_n they_o yourselves_o and_o make_v they_o believe_v they_o need_v no_o other_o meat_n we_o that_o have_v confer_v with_o all_o the_o people_n of_o our_o parish_n when_o we_o be_v permit_v find_v that_o multitude_n be_v almost_o as_o ignorant_a as_o heathen_n and_o yet_o our_o excellent_a successor_n that_o do_v no_o such_o thing_n as_o to_o any_o two_o of_o they_o 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do_v you_o silence_v we_o and_o depose_v we_o from_o the_o ministry_n and_o forbid_v baptism_n and_o the_o lord_n supper_n to_o all_o that_o have_v not_o as_o wide_o a_o swallow_n as_o yourselves_o and_o then_o ask_v why_o separate_v you_o from_o we_o 4._o do_v you_o draw_v church_n to_o yourselves_o out_o of_o our_o true_a church_n that_o be_v before_o you_o and_o then_o charge_v your_o act_n on_o we_o 5._o why_o come_v not_o you_o to_o the_o private_a church_n among_o you_o that_o have_v all_o this_o while_n be_v keep_v up_o e._n g._n in_o london_n why_o may_v not_o dr._n manton_n dr._n annesley_n dr._n jacomb_n and_o abundance_n of_o such_o as_o fair_o charge_v those_o that_o go_v only_o to_o the_o temple_n for_o separate_v from_o they_o they_o say_v they_o be_v as_o true_a chuche_n as_o you_o if_o their_o not_o hear_v you_o be_v separation_n why_o be_v not_o your_o not_o hear_v of_o they_o so_o big_a word_n when_o man_n be_v get_v into_o the_o saddle_n make_v not_o their_o cause_n 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you_o set_v not_o up_o whole_o for_o yourselves_o that_o speak_v so_o 3._o and_o they_o will_v worship_v god_n with_o the_o sect_n of_o the_o diocesan_n prelatist_n in_o the_o parish-church_n also_o as_o far_o as_o will_v stand_v with_o the_o due_a exercise_n of_o their_o proper_a ministry_n but_o will_v not_o promise_v you_o to_o give_v over_o preach_v to_o become_v your_o constant_a auditor_n or_o disciple_n sect._n 6._o you_o understand_v neither_o the_o man_n that_o you_o talk_v of_o nor_o their_o cause_n they_o take_v not_o the_o independent_o assembly_n to_o be_v the_o tent_n of_o enemy_n they_o leave_v term_n of_o enmity_n among_o brethren_n to_o those_o that_o have_v enmity_n in_o their_o heart_n nor_o do_v they_o tame_o deliver_v up_o the_o cause_n the_o most_o nonconformable_a minister_n of_o my_o acquaintance_n who_o judgement_n i_o ever_o ask_v of_o that_o matter_n do_v seem_v to_o think_v as_o i_o myself_o do_v that_o the_o episcopal_a pretbyterians_n independent_o and_o 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distinct_a and_o separate_a congregation_n be_v unlawful_a in_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o themselves_o sect._n 1_o the_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a be_v his_o work_n pag._n 7_o etc._n etc._n but_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v not_o love_v confusion_n nor_o to_o dispute_v such_o blindly-stated_n question_n they_o distinguish_v 1._o between_o bare_a local_a distinction_n and_o separation_n and_o that_o which_o be_v eminent_o call_v separation_n in_o england_n and_o denominate_v from_o the_o separatist_n which_o be_v separate_v from_o the_o parish-church_n ministry_n &_o worship_n as_o be_v no_o true_a church_n ministry_n and_o worship_n or_o at_o least_o such_o as_o no_o christian_n may_v lawful_o communicate_v with_o in_o doctrine_n prayer_n and_o sacrament_n when_o they_o can_v have_v no_o better_o in_o the_o former_a sense_n as_o be_v say_v one_o parish-church_n be_v separate_v from_o another_o and_o if_o there_o be_v any_o difference_n in_o their_o form_n or_o modes_n 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upon_o he_o the_o form_n of_o a_o servant_n and_o yet_o this_o way_n get_v a_o name_n above_o every_o name_n as_o sure_o as_o you_o live_v contend_v for_o honour_n be_v one_o of_o the_o ready_a way_n to_o loose_v it_o and_o give_v it_o to_o other_o and_o contemn_v it_o yourselves_o be_v one_o of_o the_o sure_a way_n to_o get_v it_o it_o be_v its_o motto_n quod_fw-la sequitur_fw-la fugio_fw-la quod_fw-la fugit_fw-la ipse_fw-la sequor_fw-la self-esteem_a and_o pride_n be_v odious_a in_o all_o but_o in_o a_o minister_n of_o christ_n more_o odious_a than_o in_o any_o man_n but_o never_o so_o odious_a as_o when_o it_o rise_v to_o such_o malignity_n as_o to_o envy_v or_o hinder_v the_o work_n of_o god_n because_o another_o more_o esteem_v do_v it_o it_o be_v a_o sin_n that_o i_o be_o readyer_n to_o tremble_v to_o think_v of_o than_o further_a to_o reprove_v and_o remember_v what_o work_n it_o have_v make_v in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n already_o read_v but_o what_o eusebius_n socrates_n sozomen_n evagrius_n nicephorus_n etc._n etc._n say_v of_o the_o feud_n of_o the_o old_a bishop_n read_v but_o the_o act_n of_o the_o council_n at_o ephes_n 1_o &_o 2._o of_o chalcedon_n at_o ariminum_n at_o sirmium_n at_o nice_a 2d_o etc._n etc._n and_o if_o horror_n and_o shame_n do_v not_o overwhelm_v you_o to_o think_v what_o christian_a bishop_n do_v and_o that_o so_o early_o in_o the_o face_n of_o the_o heathen_n you_o be_v not_o man_n read_v but_o how_o nazianzen_n be_v use_v at_o constantinople_n by_o a_o synod_n of_o orthodox_n bishop_n when_o he_o have_v overcome_v the_o arrian_n read_v the_o controversy_n between_o basil_n and_o anthymius_n and_o other_o read_v the_o doleful_a story_n of_o theophilus_n alexandrinus_n and_o the_o egyptian_a monk_n and_o of_o the_o same_o theophilus_n his_o manner_n of_o deal_n against_o the_o origenist_n and_o of_o his_o double_a letter_n and_o present_v which_o he_o send_v by_o ifidore_n a_o priest_n to_o the_o emperor_n and_o maximus_n to_o 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last_o see_v what_o have_v be_v do_v by_o it_o in_o this_o land_n and_o at_o last_o learn_v by_o experience_n and_o judge_v of_o churchmen_n pride_n by_o the_o effect_n brethren_n what_o harm_n will_v it_o do_v to_o you_o if_o a_o nonconformist_a preach_v by_o you_o if_o many_o follow_v he_o if_o some_o prefer_v he_o before_o you_o do_v not_o other_o prefer_v you_o before_o he_o what_o if_o his_o follower_n think_v conformity_n to_o be_v sin_n do_v not_o you_o and_o you_o think_v so_o of_o our_o nonconformity_n it_o be_v not_o yourselves_o that_o you_o preach_v for_o but_o the_o people_n soul_n and_o why_o may_v not_o christ_n gospel_n profit_v they_o from_o another_o as_o well_o as_o from_o you_o nature_n teach_v man_n to_o relish_v their_o own_o food_n and_o partly_o to_o feel_v what_o do_v they_o good_a clemens_n alexand_n strom._n 1._o give_v it_o as_o the_o reason_n why_o the_o church_n then_o not_o now_o leave_v it_o to_o every_o communicant_a at_o the_o sacrament_n to_o take_v their_o own_o part_n because_o man_n have_v free_a will_n shall_v be_v the_o chooser_n or_o refuser_n of_o his_o own_o good_a if_o they_o choose_v a_o worse_a teacher_n than_o you_o it_o be_v not_o you_o but_o they_o that_o be_v the_o loser_n if_o they_o choose_v a_o better_a you_o have_v your_o end_n if_o you_o be_v christian_n if_o you_o preach_v not_o so_o well_o as_o another_o you_o be_v not_o fit_a to_o be_v minister_n of_o christ_n if_o you_o be_v not_o glad_a that_o another_o do_v better_a and_o be_v a_o blessing_n to_o the_o flock_n if_o you_o preach_v better_o it_o be_v two_o to_o one_o but_o goodness_n will_v have_v a_o insuparable_a attraction_n or_o if_o mistake_v make_v they_o more_o capable_a of_o good_a from_o another_o than_o from_o you_o shall_v you_o not_o desire_v that_o they_o may_v have_v it_o will_v you_o say_v it_o be_v their_o partial_a humour_n i_o have_v hear_v many_o minister_n say_v so_o that_o have_v reason_n to_o have_v say_v it_o be_v my_o unskilfulness_n or_o dulness_n but_o suppose_v it_o be_v so_o a_o physician_n will_v let_v his_o patient_n take_v his_o medicine_n from_o one_o man_n hand_n if_o he_o refuse_v it_o from_o another_o the_o father_n will_v not_o let_v the_o infant_n famish_v if_o he_o will_v take_v no_o meat_n from_o he_o but_o from_o the_o mother_n if_o the_o people_n have_v no_o fault_n or_o weakness_n what_o need_n be_v there_o of_o you_o or_o other_o minister_n i_o be_o as_o apt_a to_o speak_v sharp_o against_o the_o humour_n and_o weakness_n of_o religious_a people_n as_o most_o that_o be_v not_o envious_a and_o malignant_a but_o i_o must_v give_v they_o this_o testimony_n that_o though_o many_o of_o they_o can_v well_o judge_v of_o judiciousness_n in_o their_o teacher_n yet_o most_o of_o they_o love_v a_o serious_a preacher_n and_o a_o godly_a liver_n and_o few_o of_o they_o distaste_n either_o prelate_n or_o conformist_n if_o they_o preach_v serious_o and_o live_v holy_o but_o when_o in_o all_o the_o country_n 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