accounted true visible Churches of Christ. And hitherto of his false blasphâ—mous doctrines objected against vs in his letter Which in his Libell he saith I promised to ansvver performed it not Yet in the letter it self he writeth that I said I had spoken vnto him both privately publickly now would not further haue to do vvith him And concerning his letter my answer was to this effect as I remember sent him by I.L. one of his own company besides my speach vnto himself That the contents of his letter vvere partly private partly publick that for the private I required proof and for the publick I vvould not deale privaely Wishing also the said I.L. to deale with him for some reports ascribed to him in the letter concerning me which he denyed and to end it between themselves who were of one company together And as I should heare thereof so I should consider what to do for the rest This let him aske of I.L. his own companion and let himself now look vnto it who it is that falsifyeth For not ansvvering his letter by vvriting I had good reason as may appeare by that which before is alledged And Wisdome teacheth there be persons who are not to be answered according to their foolishnes and times also when to speak and when to be silent Pro. 26.4 Eccles. 3.7 vvith 2 King 18.36 The dumbe Ministers spoken of in the place here cited by him he hath now consorted himself withall being returned to his old vomit and become as dumbe as any of them for defending the truth against the aduersaries thereof yet opening his mouth above all his fellowes in blaspheming the truth and witnesses of it Wherein the case of the worst dumbe dog in England is ten thousand fold better then his And happy it had ben for him if his toung had cleaved to the roof of his mouth and his hand never vsed pen more then theirs whereas now his sin is vnspeakably greater his estate infinitely more miserable But leaving him to the iudgmeÌ„t of God I will proceed to the other particulars of his book desiring the Reader for all his pretence of due proof of his charges to remember that saying of Salomon He that is first in his ovvn cause is iust then cometh his neighbour and maketh inquirâ— of him Prov. 18.17 Of the first head of Th White his Treatise THat which followeth in his Treatise himself reduceth to fower heads In which order I will also handle them The first is that he saith vve haue betrayed our ovvn cause in vvriting And to prove it he alledgeth that I erre in the description of a true visible Church and thereby overthrovv the mayn drift of my vvritings I answer 1. His reason followes not For may not I or any other of vs erre in some thing yet our generall cause not be betrayed Agayne did not Nathan the Prophet erre about the building of the Temple and Peter the Apostle about the Gentiles calling and comunion Could now an Edomite or Pharisee have iustly gathered that they had therefore betrayed the cause of Israel or of the Christians witnessed by them against the adversaries To come nearer to our owne times it is well knowen that Mr. Calvine Luther Beza Fulk Powell Sutcliff c. writing against the Papists Anabaptists and the like haue in sundrie things erred even concerning the very pointes of the difference between them Shall vve say therefore that they have betrayed the cause handled betvveen them and their aduersaries and overthrovven the mayne drift of their ovvn vvritings Not to speak of the Martyrs put to death by the Papists how both many of them and in many things have erred even concerning the causes controverted in their tymes Should we therefore conclude that they betrayed their own cause Or that they did not witnesse the truth notwithstanding faithfully even vnto death 2. Our cause towching the Church of England is that the estate thereof is such in their Prelacy Priesthood worship confusion c. as it is not lawfull by the word of God for any to ioyne or continue with them in such estate And moreover that it is the duty of all Christians to receive and keep the faith and ordinances of Christ vvherein the Primitive Churches vvere planted by the Apostles To discusse and make these things more playne I reduced our whole cause to seaven questions and so propounded them viz 1. Whether the Lord Iesus Christ have by his last testament given vnto and set in his Church sufficient ordinary Offices with their Callings Workes Maintenance for the administration of his holy things and for the sufficient ordinary instruction guidance and service of his Church to the end of the world or no 2. Whether the Offices of Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons and Helpers be those Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament as aforesaid Or whether the present ecclesiasticall Offices of Archbishops Lordbishops Suffragans Deanes Prebendaries Canons Petticanons Priests Deacons Archdeacons Doctors of divinitie Bachelers of divinity Chapleins or housepriests Commissaries Officialls Proctors Apparitors Parsons Vicars Curates Vagrant or Mercenary preachers Church-wardens Sidemen Clerkes Sextins and the rest now had in the Cathedrall and Parishionall assemblies be those Offices appointed by Christ in his Testament as is aforesaid or no 3. Whether the Calling and entrance into these Ecclesiasticall offices aforesaid their Administration and MaintenaÌ„ce now had and reteyned in England be the manner of calling administration maintenance which Christ hath appointed for the offices of his Church above named or no 4. Whether every true visible Church of Christ be not a company of people called and separated out from the world the false worship and wayes thereof by the word of God ioyned togeather in fellowship of the Gospell by voluntary professioÌ„ of the faith and obedience of Christ And whether the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of the Land be such or no 5 Whether the Sacraments being seales of righteousnes which is by faith may be administred to any other but to the faithfull and their seed or in any other ministery manner then is appointed by Iesus Christ the Apostle and high Priest of our profession And whether they be not otherwise administred in the Cathedrall parishionall Assemblies of England at this day 6. Whether the Book of Common prayer with the Feasts Fasts Holy dayes stinted prayers and Leiturgy prescribed therein and vsed in these Assemblies be the true worship of God commaunded in his word or the devise and invention of man for Gods worship and service 7. Whether all people and Churches without exceptioÌ„ be not bound in Religion only to receive submit vnto that Ministery worship and order which Christ as Lord and King hath given and appointed to his Church Or whether any may receive or ioyne vnto another devised by man for the service of God And consequently whether they which ioine to the present ecclesiasticall Ministery worship and order of
the Cathedrall and parishionall Assemblies can be assured by the word of God that they ioyne to the former ordeined by Christ and not to the latter devised by man even the man of sinne for the worship and service of God Now reducing our cause to these heads if it were so that I erred in one of them is therefore our cause betrayed Or should my particular error be imputed to the whole Church or reputed the betraying of our generall cause Is there not difference to be put between erring through ignorance if this were an errour and betraying with knowledge Or if this maner of reasoning which he vseth might be admitted who can deny but the Protestants of England and of all sorts have an hundred and an hundred tymes betrayed their own cause and overthrovven the very drift of their owne writings And if they think it not of weight against them for their multitude of knowen errours with what face can it be vrged against vs for one supposed errour 3. For the description it self which was given of a visible Church I still hold it to be good It was thus A true visible Church of Christ is a company of faithfull people by the word of God called out from the vvorld and the false vvayes thereof gathered together in fellovvship of the Gospell by a voluntary profession of the faith and obedience of Christ. This is the description which he would proue to be false partly by gathering my meaning thereof in other places of that other books partly and particularly by my judgment concerning the Israelites in Egypt spoken of in the Ans. to Mâ— Ia. pag. 47. Where before I answer him let me advertise the Reader that if there be any weight in this exception it was found out not by Th. White as by his book might be supposed but by some of the Ministers in VViltshire specially by one Mr Io. Ie. and other his fellowes there who have bestowed much labour in reading our writings vvhether for love to the truth or that they might finde somewhat thereby the more to cavill against it let their walking and dealing shew VVhose disciple novv this White is become having heretofore stood as opposite against them as white is to black Now therfore to answer them all vnder one I will write somewhat touching this matter referring the further handling of it if there be need till some other adversaries with whom we haâ—â— to deale concerning it and the other heads of our cause give further occasion Two things as I said about this description are specially noted and vrged the first about the meaning the other about my vvriting of the Israelites in Egypt For the first the meaning is plaine by the words themselues and by the drift of that and all other of our booâ—s as may appeare not onely by the places here cited by him but by many other compared together and particularly by an expresse declaration annexed vnto it in our Apologie against the Oxf Doct. pag. 36.44.45 Yet now againe to explane and proue the truth of that description I will here treat a litle more thereof To esteem and describe aright a true visible Church we must look especially to two things 1. the calling of Christ 2. the covenant and coÌ„munion of the Church To Christ his calling like as the Apostles every where describe the Churches according to it As namely the Churches of Ephesus Corinth Rome c. For which see these Scriptures Rom. 1.5.6.7 1 Cor. 1.2.9.24 Gal. 1.6 5.8.13 Ephe. 1.1 with 4.1.4 Col. 3.15 1 Thes. 2.12 5.24 2 Thes. 1.11 2.14 Heb. 3.1 1 Pet. 1.15 2.9.21 2 Pet. 1.1.3 Iude ver 1. Now it caÌ„not be denyed but Christs calling of his Churches people is vnto the whole faith of the Gospell willing obedience thereof fâ—oÌ„ all evill iniquity that is any way repugnant therevnto therefore froÌ„ the false worship wayes of the vvorld whatsoever they be or wheresoever And herevpon did the Apostles reproue the Churches still when they fell into any sinne eyther against the first or second Table as not walking worthy the holy calling whervnto they were called in Christ and required of them also obedience to all the coÌ„maundements ordinances of Christ fâ—oÌ„ tyme to tyme. Therefore should White and his teachers have better observed that clause of the description aforesaid by the vvord of God called out etc. So might they have perceived if they had love to the truth both that the description is good and that the abberrations of true Chuâ—ches are so far from proving it any way false as they do in deed approue the truth of it in asmuch as the verie being of a Church by the calling of Christ requireth of them to walk otherwise Another thing that we are to look vnto yet also depending vpon the former is the Churches covenant and coÌ„munion This covenant is to be considered as made by them vnto the Lord and one with another to walk together in the truth of the Gospell in all the coÌ„maundements and ordinances of the Lord And therefore to forsake and avoid whatsoever is there against As may appeare by these Scriptures Exod. 19.3 8. 2 King 23.2.3 Esa. 2.2.3 14.1 and 44.5 Ier. 50.4.5 Act. 2.41.42.47 and 11.21.24 Rom. 12.5 2 Cor. 9.13 Ephes. 4.4.5.6 Phil. 1.1.5 Therefore also the description aforesaid is good And so might the adversaries haue perceived if they had well observed that other clause therein of being gathered and ioyned together in fellowship of the Gospell c. And what els is it that giveth the being to a true visible Church but the calling of Christ the Churches covenant according thervnto Wherevpon in a true Church may and ought these things following alway to be observed 1. That it hath Christ alone for the Mediatour that is for the Prophet Priest and King thereof 2. That it is to be accounted the spouse and body of Christ the househould citie and kingdome of God the ground and pillar o truth a Church of Saints c. 3. That the promises and pledges of Gods covenant presence blessing do appertayne vnto them in that estate 4. That it apperteyneth to Christ to remove his Candlestick take away his kingdome from a Church when and as he pleaseth 5. That every true visible Church hath authority and power froÌ„ Christ to receive in members willingly professing the same faith with them to cast out obstinate offenders from among them 6. That the want or transgression of Christs ordinances doth not simply or presently disanull them from being a true Church For example When a people are so called and covenanted as aforesaid though yet they have none in office amoÌ„g theÌ„ eyther Pastors Teachers Elders etc. they are notwithstanding a true visible Church And by their calling and covenant they have power in Christ as he giveth them fit men and meanes to chuse and enjoy these as any other of his ordinances Likewise
dagger c. Now whereas it hath bene objected that they refused not simply to come that charity would have taken things in the best part that the Church might have appointed them another day c. it was also graunted that these and all such things should have bene duly weighed afore the censure had bene executed and that whatsoever errour was committed therin is alway to be acknowledged yet for the reasons before alledged the censure was deemed to be just and not to be recalled And for those he speaketh of that withstood their receiving in againe even this sheweth that there were then among themselves which thought the excommunication was not to be revoked Yet were not they therefore excommunicated as he saith but were earnestly exhorted to rest in their difference of judgement and notwithstanding it peaceably to continew with the Church if it were but till they could vse the advise and help of others for the better clearing of this conttroversy which had so long much troubled theÌ„ Yet they would not but left of all communion with the Church and so persisting were for this cause excommunicated Who also afterward vpon acknowledgement of their eâ—rour therein were received agayne Finally for the reversing agayn of the censure aforesaid who kâ—oweth not that even the best and wisest men have their second 〈◊〉 thoughts and that in some cases this befell the Prophets Apostles themselves howsoever here he terme it a dallying esteeming others belike by himself who hath so chaunged and rechaunged his faith and profession as if he thought he might dally with religion at his pleasure But the Lord is not mocked As he hath sowed to the flesh so let him look of the flesh to reap corruption For as every man soweth so shall he reap Gal. 6.7.8 2. Of the second instance which is about such as have heard the word preached in the Dutch Church I have spoken before If he had named the divers he speaketh of it might have bene shewed that they were cast out for divers causes As M. Sl. whom onely he nameth in particular was for receiving and maynteyning these errors 1. The baptising of the seed of such as are no meÌ„bers of any visible Church of Christ neyther can be themselves received to the Lords supper in any such Church 2. Read prayer or a set forme of prayers prescribed by men for thâ— worship of God As also mainteyning that that onely is not to be vsâ—d in the worship of God which God himself hath commaunded These are other things then onely hearing the word preached as this Proctor for excommunicates objecteth agayne and agayne in his Libell And both the Teacher and my self told him aforehand what would follow if he ioyned with the Dutch in these corruptions aforesaid Which M. Sl. himself knoweth to be true As he doth also that the other matter here intimated was about their Temples whither he was to bring the schollers to the publick worship concerning which there being then some diversity of judgement and himself affirming that he had alwayes held it lawfull to heare in those places so had before practised after he was come to this cause I said as I remember that it should not trouble my self for others I would therein perswade them the best I could But whereas we heard that the Dutch baptized all that were brought vnto them vsed also read prayer in their worship I told him also that if these things being so he should partake with theÌ„ therein that theÌ„ his case would prove such as we could not keep coÌ„munion together Yet he went on persisted and so for his receiving and mainteyning of these corruptions among them about baptisme and read prayer he was cast out of the Church By which also this mans dealing and depraving aâ—ter his maner may here be observed And for the generall of excommunicating such as being of vs have declined to the corruptioÌ„s of these Churches the Law of God requireth that all sinne and sinners be censured without respect of persons And who ever would have blamed such of the Primitive Churches as were free from the errors found in others of them at the same tyme about the resurrection from the dead fornication spirituall and bodily iustification by workes of the Law c. if any of their members declining therevnto they should have excommunicated them for this cause If the particulars noted in this Dutch Church be not errors corruptions why is not that poynt vndertaken to be cleared If they be such why should we not for them accordingly censure our members declining therevnto 3. Of the third which is about the question of Apostasie often spoken of by him who is so notable an Apostate himself I have spoken somewhat before Pag. 34. Now further the Reader is to know that while my self with some other of vs were prisoners in England there fell out question about this matter among the brethren here in these countreyes Whereof knowledge being given vnto vs from hence we wrote a letter vnto them setting downe what our judgment then was about this point the reasons perswading vs therevnto And this is that wherof he speaketh here which we wrote to the Church being absent from it Whereabout some of the brethreÌ„ from hence wrote vnto vs a while after how they were contrarie mynded and their reasons thereof Afterward it pleased God so to dispose as we were discharged out of prison and came over hither Being here there was speach and question againe about this matter And some of vs did now consider further about it more being observed out of the Scriptures about this point then at the first had ben And so began the alteration of our iudgment to be such as it is Which was a good while before ever we heard any thing concerning Mr A. So very false it is which here he writeth thereabout And for those that were cast out these things are to be observed 1. Both the poynt in generall and the case in particular was considered For the generall these questions were spoken of whether the Priests being speciall types of Christ the exception out of Ezech. 44. where they are spoken of do yet include all persons tymes offices and conditions c. Also whether even in the tyme of the Law the Levites which were not of the Priests falling to Idolatry and afterward repenting might not againe have and execute the same office function as they had before And in the New Testament whether Iohn Mark at first refused by Paul for his apostasie Act. 15.37.38 was not afterward received by the same Apostle and employed in the Ministerie of the Gospell notwithstanding Col. 4.10.11 c. For the particular it was also considered what the exceptioÌ„ was about which is spokeÌ„ of before Pag. 42. that theÌ„selves could not deny but he was a man very fit for the office in all other respects that he was already in
will vndertake the defence of your own doctrine In that scripture is shewed a power which Christ hath given to his Church ver 17.20 for the removing out of their communion ver 17. such as remayne vnrepentant and obstinate in their sinnes ver 16.17 and therefore excommunication To what end should this doctrine tend if not to bereave the Church of that power which Christ hath left for the sweeping of vncleannes out of the house of God But this shall be further shewed from whose breasts you suckt this poisoned milk which now you give others to drinck if you will not leave the doctrine to the wide world without defence 2. In that you trussed vp another false doctrine on the same Scripture that the party offēder Mat. 18.17 should be an heathē publican only to the party first offēded not to the whole Church Whē as the whol Church hath as much cause to be offended as the party that was first offended yea more cause thē that party had at first to be offended by reason of the continuance in his sinne which the offender hath added to his former sinne If you had vnderstood what had bene meant by trespasse verse 15 you would not haue thus abused this Scripture as may also be further shewed In this point one of your Ministers but of greater wisdome discretion then your self hath signifyed his contrary iudgment to you thereon as I have heard as knowing I doubt not the falsehood and vanity of your assertion thereon Yea I dare vndertake that many of your our owne Ministers of best reformed iudgments will be ashamed of these black drops which falls from your lipps 3. In that you published in like sort that though open offenders did communicate with true Christians yet were they not defiled thereby traducing Mr Iohns 〈◊〉 affirming the contrary And yet when you came to the triall of it in conference between you and my self you said your meaning was of a true Christian in the sight of God not of a true Christian in the sight of men as he is a member of the visible Church and that such a Christian could not sinne or be defiled with sinne in that he was regenerate or borne of God which was never the question betweene vs and so a true Christian did not sinn though he should commit Idolatry Adultery or the like in that sence that you tooke sinning Yea a true Christian might as much be defiled with sinne in communicating with open offenders as by committing adultery for any thing you have said in that conference which is vnder your hand This was your miserable shifting I feare against the light of your conscience Yet Mr Ies. a few dayes after in a conference betweene Mr Pow. and himself at Mr Bayl. on the same question took it in an other sense yea in that sence as which you said you meant not neither could I bring you vnto it as may appeare in that conference Such confusion of languages doth well become the builders of Babell 4. For that in your letter to Mr St. S.W.W.N. dated the 20. of Ian 1603. you would vndertake though no other would assist you yet your self by word or writing or howsoever against whomsoever to iustify your Ministerie doctrine c. and yet by word in conferring you refused to iustify your Ministery whē you were provoked therevnto yea when I offred to prove it false in those particulars you mentioned and to be separated from I offred also to prove your doctrine false on the 18. of Mat. and 13. of Mat. but you refused I desired that I might propose one argument concerning the question between vs but you would deale no further except you might put downe some proof further of that which we never doubted of viz that a true Christian in the sight of God did not sinne in the regenerate part as he was borne of God Was this timorous fearefull dealing answerable to your bombasted boastings let others iudge These be the doctrines of desolation which you do scatter Let others now iudge what cause we haue to account you a false prophet and they in miserable case that are led by such blind guides Did you not tremble to wish in the pulpit that the Lord would stop your mouth if you spake not the truth Your dealing hath confirmed vs and bene a meanes through Gods goodnes to gaine others to the trueth we professe and for your self remember seing you care not what you teach nor how you take the name of God in vaine that which is written Ion. 2.8 that they that wayt vpon lying vanities forsake their owne mercy 3. And yet least the measure of your iniquity were not full already you add violence persecution to your former evill dealing When you are not able to stand by the word you try whether you can suppresse vs by the sword 1 Your self would not suffer Mr Pow. to make answer to you at Slaughtens fearing least your falsehood should be discovered thereby 2 Afterward Mr Ies. by letters intreated him not to make you answer publikly that you might speak what you would without controlement 3 And seing these meanes would not prevayle your self to shew whose servant you are with others went vp againe againe as if much paynes had bene too little to procure a warrant to attach him Will We. told Mr Pow. that Mr Aw was the procurer of the warrant Thus do you by falsehood violence seek to vphold your ruinated kingdome when truth verity hath forsaken her And you shew yourself in deed to be an Edomite red with bloud Ob. 1.10 like the scarlet coloured beast who hath a mouth like a Dragon 4 Your associate Mr At. could tell me that an other place was fitter for me meaning the prison To whō I answered that if I had the gift of dissembling which he had to subscribe against my conscience as he did I told him then whē wher I might live longe enough inioy Achans wedge as himself doth without abridgement of liberty You of all others may be ashamed to dissemble thus with the Prelates knowing how basely you have thought spoke of them 5 You Mr Aw could call vs brethren afterward being vrged for your dissembling you could expound your meaning that it was in respect of creation and so Cayn Ismaell Antichrist be your brethren too yea nearer of kin then so by persecution too 6 Your self could say not long since that of all sects on some conditions you could soonest joyne to vs as being nearest the truth yet a little after call vs rebells but rebellion being a high degree of treason your self if you conceale it 24. houres will incurr the danger thereof looke you to it 7 You promised by writing to put downe reasons to iustify your Ministerie and doctrine betweene vs conferred of but we thought before how slack we should find you in performance At your next comming to Slaughtens
doth he proue it so to be held by vs If malice had not possessed him this error had never ben imputed to vs eyther as held by the Church or partaken in by the Elders Sometimes in deed we haue had speach among vs of the vnlawfulnes as we were perswaded for man and wife to live together after adultery coÌ„mitted about the band of wedlock being broken thereby whether that in the case of adultery vnknowen to others the offenders were to reveale themselves or not About which latter points when we shewed our judgment reasons this Tho. White who then was present did much vrge that a man who knew such a crime by himself must reveale it or els live in sinne with one that was not his lawfull wife Wherevpon some of vs reasoned with him about it holding that a man should not so reveale himself The end was that we differed in judgemâ—nt about these things having had speach of them but by occasion so rested for the present Will he now therefore make collections and frame positions of his owne or others speâ—châ—s and say as in his letter that they are false doctrines that ly vpon the Church or as here in his Libell that they are blasphemous doctrines of the Church What good dealing this is let the Reader judge And concerning the question aforesaid whereas some of vs were thus minded about it that a man having coÌ„mitted adultery which is vnknoweÌ„ to others is not bound by the word of God to reveale himself but vnfeynedly to repent thereof and that in such case he may notwithstanding lawfully continue with his wife Although I be not here in particular to handle this point yet I will now propound these few things to be considered about it As namely what Scriptures teach a man so to accuse â—imself whether it be not vnnaturall for a man so to do whether in Israell the womaÌ„ spoken of Numb 5.12.13 were bound to reveale her adultery being vnknowen vntill or vnlesse her husband were moved with the spirit of ielousy as the Law there is given And wheâ—her â—â—w â—en should of themselves reveale such their case to the Magistrates who haue power to put them to death for it By what Law of God they are bound therevnto And whether els they cannot haue true rpentance but deny the prophecy of Christ erre fundamentally as here he would perswade 2. The second is That there are qualities in God not essentiall that love in God is not of his being but that the self same love that is in God that is also in vs. Himself knoweth and hath bene here convinced of the notable falsehood hereof yet shameth not thus to publish it against vs. And that now the Reader may know how the matter arose I will briefly shew it We haue in our Church the vse of the exercise of Prophecy spoken of in 1 Cor. 14. chap. Rom. 12.6 1 Thes. 5.20 In which some of the brethren such as for gifts are best able though not in office of Ministery deliver from some portion of Scripture doctrine exhortation comfort sometimes two at a tyme sometymes mo Then also if there be occasion vpon the Scripture treated of are questions propounded and answers made accordingly And the whole action moderated by some of the officers and Overseers of the Church In this exercise the first Epistle of Iohn being treated of vpon these words He that loveth not knoweth not God for God is love the poynt aforesaid was by way of quâ—stioÌ„ spoken of And about it there was reasoning by two or three of the brethren this White himself with obiections and answers diversly Wherevpon this Doeg by some of those brâ—threns reasoning the opinion of one of them about this matter took the occasion thus to reproach vs which first he did more privately and now hath done it publikely to the world Wherein his evill dealing is the more notorious because himself being then present knoweth how both at the same tyme the moderation thereof by one of the Elders was according to tâ—e truth disproving the error aforsaid which he would impute vnto vs and afterward he carying himself verie yll about it other things that the matter was againe heard examined in the publick congregation where to his face he was convinced to be a false accuser therein Besides he knoweth the Confession of our faith long since published which alone doth so fully cleare vs in it as very shame of men if no feare of God might haue restrayned his lying lippes and kept him from blaspheming vs with so black a mouth 3. A third thing there was â—nd that obiected by him publickly in the Church and noted also in his letter as a false doctrine lying vpon the Church Namely that vvhen a matter is in the third place to be brought to the Church by the rule of Christ Mat. 18.15.16.17 our order being that the â—lders first have knowledg thereof given them by the parties themselues then that the case being such as is to come to the Church it be publickly propounded and handled by them as in respect of their office apperteyneth vnto them being the governors and overseers of the Church This he blamed then as an error false doctrine contrary to Christs rule Mat. 18. But here now he concealeth it And good cause why For when he was called vpoÌ„ for his proof hereof in the publick CongregatioÌ„ where he had made the accusation he was glad to answer that he vvas not provided And this also after a weeks respite to consider of it Wherevpon he was rebuked as hasty to accuse and slow to prove whereas wisedome would haue taught him first to haue bene provided of proof before he had set himself to accuse as he did But if now he think it to be no error in vs and therefore speakes not of it he might even by this haue learned to set a watch before his mouth at least not to haue barked rgainst vs in so vile a maner as he hath done Or if he still think that we erre therein contrary to Christs rule Mat. 18. as he obiected heretofore why hath he not here noted it downe with the other aforesaid Is it because that ordinance of Christ overthroweth the Prelacy and government of the Church of England whither he is now revolted it being such as they neyther do neyther can in their constitution obserue that rule at all But how then can he approue them for a true Church in such estate and how will he answer the reason alledged by vs against theÌ„ heretofore in this respect which is this Every true visible Church of Christ hath Christs power spoken of Mat. 18 17.18 to cast out â—â—â—unate sinners from among them But the Ecclesiasticall assemblyes of England haue not the power of Christ there spoken of to cast out obstinate sinners from among them Therefore the Ecclesiasticall assemblies of England cannot in their constitution be
out of his place and to take his kingdome froÌ„ amoÌ„g the requiring also of such as are willing to obey the truth voice of Christ now to save themselves from such a froward generation to walk in obedience of his faith commaundements Rev. 2.5 Mat. 21.42.43 Esa. 8.12 16. Act. 2.40.41.42 13.46.51 18.5.6 19.8.9 And according to this would I be vnderstood wheresoever I speak concerning this argument For the Iewes in Egypt rebelling after admonition besides the difference to be put between obstinacy persisted in and that which is repented of which is thought to haue bene their estate I have here before shewed how we are to discerne between their estate in respect of their owne desert and the Lords mercy vnto them for his Nameâ— sake notwithstanding Which diversity of respect being now revealed vnto vs in the word of God concerning them we are therin to rest and so to speak and esteem of their estate as the Scriptures teach vs. Ezech. 20.7.8.9 with Exod. 4.22 and 3.10.18 8 22. and 12. chap and 15.16 Hos. 11.1 For the Iewes in Christs time and after his death what I think and my reasons thereof the Reader may find also in the Treatise aforesaid both in the Preface sect 4. 5. and in the book it self pag. 161.195 For that he objecteth here about their estate after admonition two things are to be obserued the one concerning that people the other concerning their admonition For the first touching the people God had chosen that nation out of all the nations of the earth to be his he had done great wonderous things for them he had given them his word and statutes he had promised that of them and to them he would send the Messiah him they expected for refusall of him they were to be cut of and the Gentiles to be graffed in many were the cities and Synagogues of them to to Ierusalem the males came but thrice a yeare c. And for the second towching admonition God would haue them fully taught admonished and convinced that the Messiah was now come that Iesus was he therefore was Iohn Baptist appointed to shew him vnto them and to baptise in his name therefore did Christ send his disciples into their cities to preach testifie it vnto them therfore also did Christ himself every where among them teach confirme it by his doctrine and miracles and being the true Passeover shadowed out by all their types was put to death at their feast of Passeover rose againe the third day accoâ—â—ing â—o the scâ—iptuâ—es to accomplish the promises made vnto the Fathers and to leave â—he Iewes without all colour o◠〈…〉 â—â—lief and obstinacy they should be cut off These things and the like noted of them in the Scripture are to be observed of vs that we may aright esteem of their estate and of the Lords account of them and dealing with them Yea the Scriptures here cited by himself shew this very thing how the Lord did not at first cut of that people but after he had vsed sundry meanes vnto them and that also many tymes Luk. 7.30.31 c. Mat. 23.37.38 And the same is playnely declared Mar. 21.33 43. and throughout the history of the Evangelists and Actes of the Apostles Besides for admonition also obserue how God requireth that a particular man for a private â—â—nne be admonished in the 〈◊〉 secoÌ„d and third place before he be cast out Mat. 18.15.16.17 And in rejecting an heretick that it be done after the first and second admonition Tit. 3.10 Also in the Lord his owne dealing with the particular Churches of the Gentiles that he gave them space to repeÌ„t after the admonitions given vnto them before he would remoue the candlestick out of his place Rev. 2.4.5.16.21 3.3.16.18.20.22 And what then should let that we should not likewise obeserve Gods dealing with the Iewes at that tyme and accordingly esteem of their estate Concerning whom note also when now they had despised all the former meanes and crucified Iesus then the Apostles testifying vnto them that he was the Christ did first at Ierusalem after wheresoever they came and found the disobedient teach all to separate and save themselves from such a froward generation Act. 2.14 40. 13.14 51. 18.5.6 19.8.9 28.25.26.27 Thus haue I touching this point shewed my mynd wherein if I erre let it be shewed by the word of God And though in some things I differ in judgment from Mr H Barrow that faithfull Martyr of Christ yet doth it not prejudice the truth testified by both of vs against the Antichristian estate of the Church of England This themselues may obâ—erue in theiâ— owne writers against the Papists in whom it were endles to recount the differences found amoÌ„g theÌ„ frivolous to pretend thereby approbatioÌ„ of the Romish Church in their estate We all here know but in part and who is he that erreth in nothing If then in this I were mistaken haue I therfore betrayed our cause or overthrowen the mayne drift of my writings Nay if this be all the errour in my writings that with all his searching he caÌ„ fynd I shall rather think our cause to be so approved and my drift atteyned therein for the truth of Christ against the present estate of their Church as they are not able eyther to defend themselues or convince vs by the word of God and therefore now set themselues to search snatch and cavill at something for objection against vs. Which also if they fynd and it be graunteâ— them albeit our defence therein were the weaker yet were theyr cause therefore never a whit the better To conclude this poynt besides personall abuse of divers of which 〈…〉 where he hath it agayne he objecteth against me that I condemne the Dutch and French Churches for despising our admonition c. But in what writing of â—â—nne hath he found this or in what words haue I spoken it to any or in what dealing towards them haue I shewed it Where is the due proof of his charges which ere while he told vs of How reverendly we think of these Churches we haue often shewed and published heretofore which I need not here repeat And what dealing hath passed between vs and the Elders of the Dutch and French Churches of this City I shall haue occasion hereafter to shew more particularly To which place I 〈◊〉 it Now onely let the Reader here consider how truely and fitly his shutting vp of this point may be applyed to himself who heretofore hath held and witnessed the same testimony with vs against the Church of England and corruptions of these Churches here but now wavereth or rather in deed is revolted in both as the world seeth and his walking sheweth He that wavereth in his owne testimony â—ow shall his witnes â—e received But thus is that verifyed in him which the wise man speaketh The â—vill man is snared by the wickednes
when as the one of them denyed the fact which she had before confessed to two of the brethren the other in the iudgment of the Church shewed himself vnrepentant many wayes which I will not here mention And if he do not shew them to haue repented how hath he proved that for which he alledged them Besides that there were also other causes for which they were excommunicated As for that which he saith divers of vs have accused themselues of adultery that so they might be ridde of their wives this also he should have proved and not onely haue said it For we know that the persons whome he nameth W. H. and T. C. haue said and avouched earnestly that they did it not to that end but being perswaded that they ought not to continue with their wiues having by their adulterie broken the bond of mariage between them Besides if by him or any it could be proved so to be as he saith he knoweth we would not beare with such wickednes but deale with them according to their demerit howsoever without all shame he do thus abuse vs. And here by the way let me a little note this mans crossing of himself and bad dealing against vs still Before in the beginning of his book he imputed vnto vs abounding with adulteries and that above others as if it were a sinne common and borne withall among vs and this also more then among others Yet here now his objectiō against vs about the case of adultery is such as any may see he thinketh we haue ben too severe therein and that aboue others What this our opinion was is shewed before Wherein although we have chaunged our iudgment as is aforesaid yet even this particular sheweth how greatly we haue alway detested that sinne and how contrary this White is to himself that he might by any meanes deale wretchedly against vs. 3. The third thing is that he saith we haue altered many things which we held in our constitution as among other that it was not lawfull for Apostates to beare office He saith many things yet nameth but one Towching which I might answer that although many of vs did in deed so take it yet it was not here so generally received by all as he seemeth to suppose because that as there was divers times occasiō of question about it there were of the brethren that shewed themselues to be diversely mynded but at length the matter being often and much vrged we did thus agree about it That we think it not meet to chuse such into office as haue before tyme declyned frō the truth without good caution first had thereabout As namely 1. That there be consideration had both of the nature of the thing done of the quality of the person of the estate of the Church 2. That the Church have good and due tryall of such being returned afore they chuse them into office 3. That with these cautions the fittest be taken into office whom God giveth in the present estate of the Church And all these things so mynded and observed of vs as if at any time a better way be shewed out of the word of God we be ready to receive it in the Lord. This is that whereof hitherto we have agreed about this matter the particulars whereof there will be occasion to set downe more at large hereafter But now admitting that the whole Church held it not lawfull for such to beare office afterward altered it as here he saith yet was this alteration but of our judgement and practise not of the Churches constitution as I haue shewed before and therefore his collection herevpon that we held false wayes in our constitution by consequent then were no true Churches is both false frivolous 4. The fourth he propoundeth as a question saying of vs What would it profit them to b◠free from false wayes in their constitution ◠their practise be not according to their profession But the question and point here treated on is whether the description aforesaid be true or not and whether we our selues be a true Church according vnto it If we erre in practise is it therefore a false description or we a false Church The Churches of Asia and Achaia erred greatly in their practise were they not therefore true Churches according to the said description But yet where the practise is not according to the profession it makes the sinne the more grievous True and therefore Tho White his sinne is vnspeakably grievous as all they do know who haue seen what great and earnest profession of the truth he hath made heretofore from which now he is grievously fallen But for our selues he asketh further sith their knowledg is but in part aswell as their love are not they aswell as others subiect to erre in constitution aswell as practise If he meane in judgment aswell as practise we graunt it and we haue alwayes professed it howsoever he write against vs as if we were such as professed perfection of knowledg and practise in this life from which errour himself knoweth vs to be as far as we know him to be from trueth and godlynes But if he meane by our constitution the way of God wherein we are set the calling of Christ with the Churches covenant which giveth being vnto the Church then I answer that difference must be put between the way of God it self and our weak walking therein between the calling of Christ together with the covenant of the Church our sinning and transgressing in our owne wayes notwitstanding between the Church considered in Christ the head thereof in whom we are washed from all our sinnes guyded in in the way of truth and preserved to eternall life and between the Church considered in the members thereof as we are in our selves every one sinfull and subject daily to erre both in judgment and practise And this not onely in the members severally but in all of vs ioyntly together If this distinction be not observed who can shew that ever there was or can be true Church vpon the earth or how we can haue true comfort in this life to our selves or esteem and discerne aright between things that differ as we ought And if it be observed any may see that all his exceptions against vs are of no moment It is not our knowledg or practise but our calling covenant in Christ that secludeth in our constitution all false and evill wayes whether as yet seen or not For which cause also I need not here stand vpon his needles and erroneous discourse about that which he calleth a shift though in deed it be a point much to be respected namely that a true Church must be separate from all false wayes which they see For as I haue shewed alreadie we ought if we will consider aright of a Church to look at their calling and covenant in Christ which is from all false wayes whatsoever seen or vnseen to the obedience of
faith Howsoever therefore we haue erred or may erre in judgment or practise as we and all men in this life are alway subiect to do yet doth it not therefore follow eyther that the description aforesaid is not good or that we are not a true Church notwithstanding Further towching our selues we acknowledge professe before all men that divers things heretofore obserued amoÌ„g vs at the first we have since altered and do from tyme to time alter and amend as God giveth vs by his word to discerne better therein Yea and herevnto are we bound and haue power in Christ even by the constitution of our Church So free from all false wayes is the constitution it self and yet we that are in it subiect to erre notwithstanding many wayes So far are we also from the straunge opinion and impietie of them that having in this latter age of the world disclaymed the Popâ—s person and recâ—ivâ—d some truthes of the Gospell yet reteyning many abhominations of Antichrist withall would now stand still and admit of no further proceeding or alteration among them As if they had at first seen received the whole truth and all the ordinances of Christ. Or as if Antichrist should not now by degrees be discovered and consumed as heretofore he rose vp and was exalted 2 Thes. 2. Rev. 14. and 17. and 18. and 19. chap. with Ier. 51.25.26.45.46 And now by that which hath bene said let the Reader obserue whether this fellow haue not entrapped himself and his mother Church while he thought to haue ensnared vs. Neyther let any be so simple as to give credit in the cause of religion to any further or otherwise but as warrant and confirmation is brought out of the word of God which is the ground and rule of all trueth nor to refuse that which is approved by it for the aberration opposition or calumniation of any whosoever they be His abuse both here and other where in his book of that which we haue published in print I leave also to the Reader to observe and for himself to answer to him that knoweth his heart As for I. N. whom he nameth in particular more then others whom he would insinuate for borrowing and making no conscience to pay againe he hath called him before the Magistrates here as others before mentioned affirming offring to shew how in the very particular alledged by White when he was here demaunded his proof for thus divulging him he hath offred his creditour goods sufficient for his debt with overplus and having had to deale with him for much hath satisfyed all to a little yet remayning having also had hindrance by the sicknes and otherwise And for the generall we acknowledg that men ought to be carefull both how they borrow and how they pay againe and should measure these as all other affaires with judgment and conscience according to godlynes Psal. 37.21 and 112.5 Rom. 13.8 And we know also that yet notwithstanding it is the case sometime of men fearing God not onely to be but even to dy in debt As we read of one of the sonnes of the Prophets 2 King 4.1 But all this which hitherto he hath said being not ynough eyther for the vent of his owne rancour and malice against vs or to please our adversaries whose favour he would purchase by traducing of vs he now further pretendeth to frame an opposition between our practise the Treatise entituled A true description out of the vvord of God of the visible Church thus setting himself to seek and abuse against vs whatsoever he can out of any of our writings To shew his wicked dealing herein as it is would require to insist vpon the particulars of that description and to compare therewith the estate and walking of our Church that would aske a long treatise which here I purpose not It shall suffice that the Reader especially such as haue knowledg of our Church which he blameth and of the Church of England to which he is returned do compare them both with that description and accordingly esteem of both as he shall fynd the estate of them to be in deed and in truth Thereby also will plainely appeare how this adversarie neither writeth nor walketh in the feare of God to whom notwithstanding he must giue account of al these things And for the particulars he mentioneth that the equitie of our cause and iniquitie of his dealing may better appeare I will in the treating of them first set down the words of that description from whence he would draw his opposition and then speak of the particulars themselues And first for the body of the Church considered in her parts as here he would seem to except against vs from one to another through the severall parts of this body thus it is set downe in that description of a true Church Pag. 2. Suerly if this Church be considered in her parts it shall appeare most beautifull yea most wonderfull and even ravishing the senses to conceive much more to behold what then to enioy so blessed a communion For behold her King and Lord is the King of peace and Lord himself of all glorie She enioyeth most holy and heavenly lawes most faithfull vigilant Pastours most sincere pure Teachers most carefull and vpright Governours most diligent and trustie Deacons most loving and sober Relievers and a most humble meek obedient faithfull loving people every stone living elect and precious every stone hath his beautie his burden and his order All bound to edify one another exhort reproue comfort one another lovingly as to their owne members faithfully as in the eyes of God Thus it standeth in that description Towching which now I would aske 1. Whether he hold this description herein to be true and agreable to the word of God 2. Whether he dare deny Iesus Christ to be the King and Lord of our Church 3. Whether he acknowledg him onely to be the King Lord of every true visible Church vpon the earth 4. Whether these be the Offices and functions which he as Lord and King hath appointed to his Church namely Pastors Teachers Elders Deacons Relievers 5. Whether these be had in the Church of England to which he is now gone and in whom they are there to be found 6. Whether the Church Officers there be so qualified as here is set downe 7. Finally whether if any would compare the estate of that Church in the body officers members lawes and walking thereof with the description of a true visible Church out of the word of God he might not make another maner treatise and other maner of obiections against them then this Priest of theirs doth against vs. But to proceed for the Pastor with which office he beginneth first thus are his qualities and duties set down in that descriptioÌ„ of a true Church Pag. 3. Their Pastour must be apt to teach no yong Schâ—ler able to divide the word aright holding fast that
that his work may endure the triall of the fyer and by the light of the same fire reveale the Tymber Hay Stubble of false Teachers He must take diligent heed to keep the Church from errours And further he must deliver his doctrine so plainly simplie purely that the Church may increase with the increasing of God and grow vp vnto him which is the head Christ Iesus Hitherto is that description wherein the qualities and duties set downe be many and great 1. Yet cannot this Adversarie satisfy himself with them all as he would and therefore coming to make exceptions against the Teacher he fetcheth his first out of the generall description of the Church spoken of before objecting that the Teacher is sleyned with hypocrisie and to proue it he alledgeth his dealing concerning G. I. M. Sl. Yet sheweth it not so much as in any one particular thinking belike that some are so simple in themselues or so set against vs as they will take his word for proof sufficient who â—eyther knoweth that dealing himself in the things which he knoweth can ly so notoriously as if he had the art of lying and would be a teacher thereof vnto others 2. The second thing he objecteth is apostasie because that many yeares since having received this cause he did sometimes yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England But synce that tyme hath so approved himself among vs both in the witnesse of the trueth in the service of the Church as hath ben for the great help and comfort of vs all and my self in particular bound to testify concerning him as Paul did of Marcus Barnabas sisters sonne that that he hath ben my workfellow vnto the kingdome of God which hath ben to my consolation Col. 4.10.11 For the question it self and our account of Apostasie I shall write more particularly hereafter 3. The third thing is that he saith he hath ben a meanes to bring in and defend false doctrines But what be they First The latter of those two before mentioned Now that latter was about apostasie in the matter aforesaid So as then himself accounteth them to be apostates that having held our cause do afterward yeeld to heare the Ministery of the Church of England and that it is a false doctrine that any such may afterward beare office in the Church And what then is this Whites own case who being a Minister of the Church of England left both that Church and Ministery and received our cause and witnessed the trueth against them and yet now hath yeelded not onely to heare but even to execute himself the Ministerie of that Church againe But he will say that among the Errata at the end of his book he noted this for one that for the word latter we should here read former I have obserued it and well in deed might he note it amoÌ„g his Errata who even while he would blame others of errour doth so straungely erre himself as to put latter for former one contrarie for another But this might be an oversight as often falleth out in printing which therefore I would not haue noted but that I think there is a worse thing in it namely that at first he both wrote and meant it of the latter which is about apostasie vntill he had himself apostate from the tâ—ueth and executed agayne his Ministery received from the Prelates in England and therevpon now would alter it measuring the doctrines of religion not by the word of God but as may best serue his own turne And I am perswaded the rather thus to think for these reasons 1 because when he began to set himself to be an enemie of this Church and could not prevaile as he desired he then began to make question about apostasie whether any such might beare office in the Church 2. If we vnderstand it here of the former as his Errata now would haue it read it is nothing to the purpose at all seing there is in it no speach of any points of doctrine but of hypocrisie and seing an hypocrite may notwithstanding teach true doctrine For els it would follow that neither Iudas nor White himself did heretofore teach true doctrine when they preached because Iudas was and he is an hypocrite both of them through hypocrisie betraying Christ into the hands of his enemies His other proof of false doctrines which he pretendeth is set down after his woonted manner others that may be alledged yet not naming any which no doubt he would have done if he could or if he durst adventure the triall of them with the Teacher of our Church whom he thus envieth and abuseth who notwithstanding for his learning wisdome and godlynes as also for his faithfull teaching of the Church and vpright walking toward all is so well knowen approued as neither he nor we need regard any adversaries malice opposition against him After this he commeth from the teaching to the ruling Elders whose properties and duties are thus noted in the description abovesaid Pag. 4. Their Elders must be of wisedome and iudgment endued with the Spirit of God able to discerne between cause and cause between plea and plea and accordingly to prevent and redresse evils alwayes vigilant intending to see the statutes ordinances and lawes of God kept in the Church and that not onely by the people in obedience but to see the Officers do their duties These men must be of life likewise vnreproveable governing their own families orderly they must be also of maners sober gentle modest loving temperate c. And afterward againe pag. 5. Their especiall care must be to see the ordinaunces of God truely taught practised aswell by the Officers in doing their dutie vprightly as to see that the people obey willingly and readily It is their dutie to see the Congregation holily and quietly ordered and no way disturbed by the contentioâ—s and disobedient froward and obstinate not taking away the libertie of the least but vpholding the right of all wiselie iudging of times and circumstances They must be ready assistaunts to the Pastour and Teachers helping to beare their burden but not intruding into their office Thus is the description Now towching our Elders he taketh here his exception against two of them The first is Mr Da. St. against whom it may be he is the more eagerly caryed because he discerned so quickly into him being a notable white hypocrite and dealt so plainly roundly with him as he did And therefore also excâ—pteth not a word against him for his ability to discerne into persons and causes and to deale with them accordingly nor for sundrie other of the properties and duties here required though they be many and waighty Yet some things he speaketh of which he had twise before besides that which he hath also hereafter so as I need not repeat and speak of them as he doth againe and againe Yet somewhat more I will note here touching the particulars
excepted out of the description 1. The first is of being indued with the Spirit of God Of which we haue seen many and great testimonies in Mr St. from tyme to tyme. He hath bene an auncient disciple of Christ in the faith of the Gospell this many yeares He hath given vp his life for the name of the Lord being adjudged to death so remayning many yeares vnder the sentence and dayly expectation thereof till he was banished He now liveth still an exile for the same truth of Christ And in the governement of the Church hath had to deale with so many causes persons and dispositions yea oppositions also of sundry people as if he had not bene indued with the spirit of God that in great measure he had never bene able so to have endured waded through them all as he hath done Which also may both streÌ„gtheÌ„ himself still in the Lord stop the mouth of all his adversaries And for this Th. White himself let it here be considered 1. Whether he be fit to beare any office at all yea or to be so much as a member in the Church of God if he be tried but by this one particular of being indued with the Spirit of God 2 With what spirit he hath written this book of his 3. Whether he haue not therein many times and sundry wayes blasphemed the holy spirit of God For which he shall answer to the Lord. 2. The second thing is that he saith he would defend the transgressing of the lawes of God in himself and others Note that he saith not he hath done it but that he would do it And how shewes he this Not so much as by pretence of any one particular for proof thereof Yet this is the man that would perswade his Reader he could make due proof of any thing he layeth to our charge 3. The third thing is about the governing of his house for which he referreth to that he hath els where cited and so do I to that which is there said Yet let himself take this withall that if the things be true which are reported and observed concerning his own family he might have found work ynough at home and cause ynough to cast a beame out of his owne eye But I will not follow his course in this maner howsoever it might be iust to deale with him as he doth with others 4. The fourth is of crueltie and tyranny for proof whereof he allegeth that some of our owne members have complayned that if they had a matter as cleare as the sunne against him yet durst they not deale with him for it But who be these some he speaketh of why doth he not name them at all Or would he haue vs to think that they be some such as hate the light knowing that their works are evill and whome he therfore concealeth that he might shew himself with his fellowes Mr Pâ— and the rest to be fit receivers for such reporters Or why did he not obserue that the Elders must be men of wisdome and judgement able to discerne between cause and cause plea plea that it is their duty to repress the contentious disobedient froward and obstinate Which by whomsoever it be done who can otherwise think but such will be as ready to open theyr mouthes against them as they are to please themselves in their own eyes But howsoever they may for a while lurk walk in the dark yet God in his time will bring them to light discover them as he hath done this White himself sundry other the like heretofore 5. The other of the Elders he speaketh of is Mr St. Mer. against whom he excepteth for Apostasie The matter was thus About thirteen yeares synce a litle while after he was come to this cause which we professe being in the countrey with his friends he was there perswaded that he would heare some of the Ministers of the Church of England preach Which he did once And straightway after being affected therewith did it no more Which also he made knowen himself whereas otherwise it was vnknowen to vs. Now after that time living with the Church and being wel approved among vs he was about five yeares since chosen to be one of the Elders Thus is the case wherein now mark this hypocrites dealing The qualities and duties required in the Elders being so manie and great as in the description are noted was there nothing whereat he could except but this onely And was his malice such as rather then he would say nothing he would except eveÌ„ for that which himself accounteth to be good and lawfull Let such dealing then returne into his owne bosome and be a comfort to such as be thus abused by him From the Elders he cometh to the Deacons whose qualities office is set down in the aforesaid description of a true Church pag. 4. Their Deacons must be men of honest report having the mysterie of the faith in a pure conscience endued with the holy Ghost they must be graue temperate not given to excesse nor to filthy lucre And afterward againe Pag. 5. The Deacons office is faithfully to gather collect by the ordinance of the Church the goods and benevolence of the faithfull and by the same direction diligently and trustâ—lie to distribute them according to the necessitie of the Saincts Further they must enquire and consider of the proportion of the wants both of the Officers and other poore and accordinglie relate vnto the Church that provision may be made Here he excepteth onely against one of our Deacons Mr C. Bow To whom about eleven yeares synce the Magistrates of Narden did once and not weekly as this man intimateth send a litle money to be given to the poore of the Church which he together with one of the Elders Mr. G. Kniston did accordingly bestow vpoÌ„ such as they iudged to stand most in need Whereof because goodwife Colg the woman of whom he speaketh had not a part therevpoÌ„ by her meanes it seemeth was this report raised of Mr. Bow which now this fellow hath published and for which with his many such like instances he is by Mr B. called before the Magistrates as a sclanderer And touching the woman no marvel if shee so abused him who hath synce in other things caryed her self so vngodlily as she is cast out of the Church and so remaineth And for Mr. Bow how wel he hath approved himself in his office I shal not need to relate neither need he regard any sclanderous tong or pen knowing his owne integrity and having the Churches testimony to which he hath with good approbation ministred in that office now about fourteen yeares After this dealing with sondry of our officers in particular the adversarie commeth to speak of the Elders ioyntly Against whom he obiecteth that we called R.W. that is Rose White his wife before vs in the first place for a private thing But it was for that her child
In the fourth his bad dealing doth yet further appeare it being a matter wherewith himself is acquainted and yet propoundeth not the case truely as he knoweth it to be VVe have indeed misliked in the Dutch Church not Churches as he speaketh of AmsterdaÌ„ that consisting of so great a multitude it is but one and yet meeteth in three severall places by meanes whereof the whole Church cannot come together in one the ministers can not together with the flock sanctifie the Lords day the presence or absence of the meÌ„bers of the Church cannot certainly be knowen nor any publick action be rightly performed Which reasons we signifyed to themselves in our dealing with them heretofore On the other side we misliked also that a few people being straungers together in one towne of one language of one profession in religion having not before tyme their peculiar officers should in such case yet divide themselues into severall Churches For which I required example or warrant out of the Scriptures and alledged my self divers reasons about this question And what contrariety now is there in these things being laid together as they ought with their true and due circumstances Such perhaps as the false teachers would pretend against Paul when he circumcised Timothee Act. 16.1.3 and yet would not circumcise Titus but withstood the false brethren that vrged it Gal. 2.3.4.5 The others he speaketh of were himself and some other with him who had left the Church of England and came to dwell here Touching whom seing he pretendeth that they ioyned not to vs for divers disorders amongst vs I wil here advertise the Reader a few things coÌ„cerning them and those also specially out of their own letters which being as their owne children shall also be their Iudges WheÌ„ they had left the Church of England as having aâ— Antichristian Ministery worship confusion c. they first joyned in to a Church in the West parts of England professing the same faith with vs. A while after they came over hither at first communicated with vs but afterward being about twelve or thirteen they ioyned themselues here as a body together to walk in the same faith and way as we do reputing and calling themselves a Church distinct from vs and in their letters to the Church of the West countrey thus inscribed them The Church in Amst. to our bretheren the Church in the West partakers of the same heavenly vocation c. And in the letter wrote thus For our consultatioÌ„ resolution thus it is To meet apart by our selves aswell for the redresse of disorders that may arise as also for the administration of the word expecting the blessing of God which hath not chosen vs for our multitude seeing we were the fewest of all others And againe in the same letter for our own estate though our hope to be a body distinct in our countrey vvere yet is not our hope to be a distinct body in a straung countrey frustrated but rather accomplished And afterward againe speaking of vs and themselues they say For the other Churches estate though that acknowledgment of them vvere graunted yet all things considered vvhether God doth not offer vs occasion to increase the number of the Churches and our selves to vvalk together in holynes to the Lord vvho have had better experience one of another then of that Churches estate that by this meanes the adversaries reproches of one Church and flocking therevnto setting vp one head may be stopped is the thing vve pray you to ponder Thus they wrote in a generall letter together And in another of theirs written in particular by this T. White Tho. Pow. We say they through Gods mercy haue our meetings now apart from our bretheren the Church in Amsterdam building vp our selves vvith that small ability that God hath inabed vs vvithall c. as also receiving such members as vve fynd meet and desirous of our fellowship And afterward in the same letter Wâ— haue had one meeting already together vvherein M. W. is ioyned Consider that vvhich is vvritten Exo. 7. â— and pray vvith vs that the Lord vvould sâ—nd the Northvvynd and the Southvvynd the one cold the other hote Luk 12.55 that is the liuely graces of his spirit in the preaching of his Law and Gospell to blow vp that our garden may be fruitfull Cant. 4.16 but not an Eastvvynd vvhich vvithered Ionas gourd Ion 4. Thus wrote they then of themselves By which may appear both what they intended and for what They intended to be a severall Church from vs though they were but a few and of the same faith living straungers together in the same towne c. And the cause why they did it That they might redresse disorders among themselves that they might be a distinct body in a straung countrey as they purposed in our native countrey before they came over hither that they might encrease the number of Churches that they might stop the adversaries reproches of one Church and flocking therevnto setting vp one head that they might receive such meÌ„bers as were desirous of their fellowship and that they might also themselves be a garden fruitfull c. If these things were so as then they wrote how saith he now in his book that the cause why they would not ioyne to vs was for disorders amongst vs How do his letters and his Libell agree together Specially seing in the same letters at the same tyme they write vs to be their brethreÌ„ the Church in Amsterdam of whose estate they had not that experience c. Belike he had forgotten the old saying Mendacem oportet esse memorem A lyer had need have a good memorie And further if it were as he saith now why did they not then so alledg that we might haue insisted therevpon why shrank they from the handling of the question between vs which we would have discussed by the Scriptures had not they refused as they did But if some be not mistaken there was an other cause then any of the aforesaid which they will not make knowen namely that Mr Po. this White might have bene Officers of that Church whereof they had little hope among vs to satisfie their desier Which whether it were so or not themselves know best And howsoever yet with what face can this hypocrite write as he doth that they would not joyn to vs for divers disorders among vs when but even a while after they returned to the Church of England which they knew certainly to have not onely divers disorders but even a multitude of the corruptions of Antichrist the sonne of perdition Well might he write of these things as he did in another letter of his to Mr S. W. Respice finem Look to the end For as they sowed so have they reaped not having the wind of Gods grace to blow vpon them that they might be a fruitfull garden but the worme of Gods judgment to smite them that they might become a withered gourd
And this according to his owne prophecy though as Caiaphas speaking more trueth then himself intended when to the same Mr S. W. he wrote thus also Certainly if God doth not worke mightily for vs we shall come to desolation Balaam even then when he would have cursed Israel prophecied the truth though against his will 5. The fift is a meer calumniation like the rest In the place quoted we blame in the Dutch as we do also in the French Church of this towne that the rule and commaundement of Christ Mat. 18.15.16.17 they neyther observe nor suffer rightly to be observed among them If this man-pleaser could approue them herein why doth he not For our selves we do carefully observe it think all the Churches of Christ are bound so to do For deciding of matters which are of publick nature they are made knowen and decided among vs in by the whole body of the Church and not by the Elders alone Yet therein we have this order that all such matters be first signifyed to the Elders to whom the oversight of the Church and affaires thereof apperteyneth by whom likewise they are proprounded advised treated of also publickly as the cases do require Of which points we have spoken sufficient at least till we be answered in our Apologie against the Oxf. Doct. pag. 63.64 Notwithstanding if any come to the Elders eyther for our advise or to have some matters brought to the Church we shew them what we think to be best as we are perswaded our selves yet debar not any from proceeding further so as they will answer their doing to the Church as there the case shal be found to be And this to be our practise and maner of walking I think this man himself knoweth well For T. C. his matter the Elders did not decide it as he falsely saith but shewed him what we our selves thought to be best according to godlynes and required of him to do no otherwise in it then he could answer to God and to the Church Of the matter it self as also of W. H. is spoken here before pag. 33. And for that he saith here seeing W.H. his wife put him away who can constreine her or any other in like case to retein such if themselves be not willing For the bringing of matters in a third place to the Elders as they have obiected Mr P. himself the rest of them have ben answered that we do not so but that when in the third place a matter is to come vnto the Church by that rule of Mat. 18. this is the order we keep therein that first knowledg thereof be given to the Elders the overseers of the Church then that they seing the matter to be such and so dealt in as is to come to the Church it be by them publickly propounded and prosequuted as is meet whereas otherwise both the Church might be troubled and mens names and private matters be brought in publick without iust cause And this we do not adding to that rule of Christ as this man and his followers have still objected but having that care and keeping that order in the observation thereof as the Scriptures els where lead vs vnto For which see 1 Tim. 5.17.18.19.21.22 4.14 Heb. 13.17 Rom. 12.7.8.1 Thes. 5.12.13.14.27 Rev. 2.1.7.8.11.12.18.29 3.1.6.7.13.14.22 with Exod. 3.16 4.29.30.31 12.21 and with 1 Cor. 14.40 By which also may appeare how frivolous it is that he saith we alledge the same reasons for our practise which we approue noâ— in â—he Dutch As if we should put no difference between the Eldership alone hearing and deciding the publick matters of the Church between the Elders according to their office having knowledg advising and propounding of such matters to be heard and discussed by the body of the Church joâ—ntly together Or as if the reasons which warrant a lawfull thing should also beare out that which is vnlawfull or that we should not therefore disallow them when by any they are so applyed And for the abuse of that rule of Mat. 18. whether through evill affection in partiality and envie or to an evill end to cover filthynes withall if any do so as he saith measuring others it may be by the length of his owne foot they are to answer it to God who knoweth the heart and tryeth the reynes to give to every one according to their works Our duty is for that which man may see judge to have that rule as all other the ordinances of Christ carefully observed among vs Whereat let him consider if his heart grieve not more then it doth that the Church of England of which he is neyther doth nor can in their estate observe that nor many other the ordinances of Christ by reason whereof they cannot be esteemed a true Church of Christ in such constitution As I shewed before pag. 8. 6. For the sixt which is about the worshipping of God in the Idol TeÌ„ples of Antichrist can he not put difference between the ordinarie publick worship of the Church in such places and the occasionall receiving of aâ—mes therein by the poore Neither between the benevolence of a Church to the Ministers or Saints of Christ which is â—he sacrifice spoken of Phil. 4.18 the relief of a City given to the poore that dwell among them be they of any religion whatsoever one or other Which I speak not as discommending the care they have for the poore among them which is very great and much commendable but to shew the nature of this action how it is performed Nor will he discerne between the solemne appointed worship of God by the Church so assembled together and the private duties of thankfulnes of salutation or the like Or doth he think we hold it not lawfull to walk vp and downe in the Idol Temples as they vse in Powles at London or if we be walking there to lift vp our hearts to God as occasion may be or if we meet some there of whom we have received a benefit to give theÌ„ thankes Or if their Temples were made prisons as in Powles aforesaid there are divers and some of vs committed thither as heretofore sundry have bene by the Prelates that we would not pray there yea preach also as there might be occasion Or when we did so would he therevpon inferre as now he doth that we coÌ„demne others in those things which we would and do our selues A senseles conclusioÌ„ but wel beseming a Baals Priest that hath a good will if he had ability withall to plead for Baals altars and houses As for the poynt it self and the place of Deut. 12. we haue written already in other Treatises not yet aunswered Therefore need I not now write more about it here But let the Reader obserue here how this Idoll Priest himself yeeldeth these places to be Idoll Temples and the Temples of Antichrist Yet bringeth no warrant for the reserving and appoynting of them to spirituall vse
in the worship of God but saith playnly if the coÌ„mandement Deut. 12. be moral which he cannot deny if he hold it morall for the Images and altars that then no civill vse of them may be had at all much lesse spiritual And yet I suppose he will not deny but Iehu the King of Israel put the house of Baal to a lawfull vse 2 King 10.27 7. The seaventh is that whereas we shewed the Dutch here that they vse a new censure of Suspension which Christ hath not appoynted yet we ourselves suspended M. S. many moneths together before his excoÌ„munication But this he should have proved so to have ben The Dutch suspend their members from the Lords supper and yet admit them to participation of the word and prayer so did not we But the case was thus The said Mat. Sl. having declined from the truth which before he professed with vs to sundry errors of the Dutch here it required many dayes to deale with him and convince him in them all which we were carefull to do Now when some of them being handled he was admonished by the Church to repent and returne to the truth and he notwithstanding obstinately persisted against the voyce of Christ so speaking vnto him there were some of vs who thought it not lawfull to have any more spirituall coÌ„munion with him when he came to our publik metings Whereabout there bâ—ing some question and all the particulars being not yet finished it was agreed for the present when he did so come to deale with him about the residue of the poynts yet remaining Which being donne and divers dayes week after week being so imployed for the convincing of him in all the Church did then excoÌ„municate him as here is said and so he remaineth at this day a man overcome with the love of this world here called his preferment and never a whit too good when he was at the best to be of our fellowship which is in the Gospell of Iesus Christ. For which he that thinketh any too good is himself stark naught 8. For the eight about non residency howsoever he speak of Mr Br. his absence frâ—m the Church and this without any leave thereof yet himself knoweth that he with some others of vs was vpon speciall occasion sent by the Church into England and there imployed a long time about that busines Wherein also what good paynes he took with what great carefulnes even this White himself was often a present beholder witnes When he stayed there vpon other occasion he saith it was not so long as here is deceitfully pretended though longer then he or we would have had it and that he could not then possibly do otherwise as things fell out But I will not here insist to speake what may be done in cases of necessitie or speciall occasion or to put difference between factours servants and men agreing together on mutuall conditions nor vpon the difference that is between Ministers of the word and the Deacons and specially the difference between one man having two three or fower benefices as they call them by reason whereof though he be still with some of those Churches yet must he needs be a non resident all his life and between one Church having two three or mo Deacons by meanes whereof though some be absent vpon occasion yet there are other vsually present to performe the duties apperteyning to the office notwithstanding But of these things I will not stand For that which we desier and approve is that he which hath an office should waite on his office Rom. 12.7.8 9. Now followeth the last of his instances but not the least for the lyes and sclanders conteined therein The first particular here spoken of is about this that we blamed in the Dutch Church of this towne that they receive vnrepentant excommunicants to be members of their Church which by this meanes becommeth one body with such as be delivered vnto Sathan But this man had no list to set it downe in our owne words because he hath no love to speak of things as the truth is And if there were no other corruption but this onely in the Church aforesaid let such as are of judgment consider whether we have not just cause to put difference between it the other Churches of these countreyes that stand not in like transgression of which we spake before pag. 25. and whether we which know these things and have had dealing with them thereabout may suffer the members of our Church to joyne with them in this estate in any part of their worship and Ministration be it the preaching of the word or any other whatsoever Yet notwithstanding it is false that he saith we excommunicated our owne members onely for hearing the word preached amongst the Dutch or French for those whome yet we haue cast out hereabout it hath bene partly for their revolting froÌ„ the trueth which they have professed with vs to the corruptions of these Churches which declining as they may shew in hearing the word preached among them in such estate so are we accordingly to esteem thereof and partly for other sinnes withall whereinto they have fallen And a most shamelesly it is that he saith we are our selves one body with an excommunicate from the French Church The party whom he intendeth now one of the Elders of our Church was not excommunicated by them but did himself leave them for their corruptions after he had long much dealt with them in all good manner to the vttermost of his power thereabout they persisted therein notwithstanding The next particular here spoken of is about our dislike of them for that they observe daies and times consecrating certaine dayes in the yeare to the Nativitie Resurrection Ascension of Christ c. Which this adversarie himself knoweth we do not though his conscience be so seared as he careth not how he bely vs and abuse the Reader so he may seem to say something against vs. And straunge it is if he were not impudent out of measure that he is not ashamed to say that we observe their holy dayes as much as they do A thing which is false in both the instances which himself giveth hereabout the one being about the shutting of shops the other about our publick meetings for worship on those dayes For towching the first such of vs as shut their shops do it not in respect of religion or with observance of publick worship as they do but partly thinking it to be a thing civill which may be done at the Magistrats appointment seing no spirituall observation is vrged vpon vs withall partly chusing rather so to do then to pay the penalty whereto otherwise they are lyable it being far more then in compasse of the day they could by their labour obteyn Others of vs do on those dayes follow their ordinary labour some have bene called and have answered it before the Magistrates alledging divers reasons of their
doing in regard of Gods requiring but one day in seaven for publick worship and permitting six for labour because of the popish and superstitious observance of these tymes still reteyned and other the like And what though in these things being matters of such nature and question we have differed in judgment Is it any other thing then the Christians in the Primitive Churches at this day in all ages haue ben may be in divers cases subject vnto For the second it is a notable deceitfull vntruth that we have our meetings for worship on their holy dayes For although their Easter and Whitsunday falling alwayes on the Lords day the feast of Ascension of the fift day on the week called Ascension Thursday we haue our publick meetings on those dayes yet it is not at all in respect of their holy dayes but because that weekly we have our meetings on those dayes all the yeare thorow Besides if we observed their holy dayes as much as they do we should have a religious regard of them have our publick metings for worship as they have on Christmasse day the morrow after also on the morrow after Easter and Whitsunday Which dayes together with the former he knoweth they observe and we not Yet shameth he not thus to write as he doth as if his Lords the Prelates had given him a dispensation to lye and calumniate no matter how and that now he is growen so wicked and shameles that he counteth it nothing so to do if thereby he may please his Lords or pleasure himself God thus justly punishing his former hyprocrisie and present apostasy so matching his writing with his walking as it should be an evident testimony in the sight of all how vndeniably his owne collections are true in himself as in his Lords too which so injuriously he would apply vnto vs and how far he is behind the very heathen even Medea her self which said Video meliora proboque Deteriora sequor I see better things approve them but I follow the worse wheras himself after the example of his Patrones though he see better things yet doth not so much as approve them but set himself to oppugne them what he can possibly and for the worse things doth not onely follow them but approve and applaud them most shamefully yea and therevnto bringeth pretended allegation of Scripture as if it were no sinne to take the Name of God in vayne and make the Scriptures serve his owne fancy yea his lyes calumnies For which certainly the Lord will not hold him guiltles And where he pretendeth against vs as if he could declare false and impertinent allegation of Scripture and yet passeth by it vndeclared the Reader observing his purpose and dealing may easily gather that if he thought himself able to do it he wanteth no will therevnto That which he referreth vnto in a book already published will not prove it so much as in part no though himself with all his ayders do joyne withall The point is about the Scriptures alledged by vs against the yearely chaunge of the Elders in this Dutch Church and not continewing in their office according to the doctrine of the Apostles and practise of the Primitive Churches Which Scriptures be these Rom. 12.4.5.6.7.8 1 Cor. 12.11.12 c. Act. 20.17.28 1 Pet. 5.1.2.3.4 and Numb 8.24 c. Where there be many reasons expressed and included plainely disproving the yearely chaunge and dismission aforesaid As namely the authority and work of the Lord making them Overseers of his Church and placing them as members in his body the duties of wayting on their office of feeding the flock coÌ„mitted vnto them of attendance care and watchfulnes therein the account to be given thereof vnto the Lord and the reward to be hoped for from him according to his promise at that day and other the like Neither can any example or reason of sound consequence be shewed froÌ„ the Scriptures for warrant of their practise But I need not speak further of this point vnles some would vndertake their defence against vs in the particulars wherein we have had to deale with them Which neyther themselves could performe nor any other would yet so much as attempt for them though some great learned men have had just occasion therevnto if they could have done it As for that he saith of the book aforesaid lying vnanswered we have divers reasons for so leaving it 1. It is but part of a book printed before the rest was finished And to see the whole might be of speciall vse if an answer should be given vnto it 2. Synce the writing thereof it pleased God to visite him with sicknes that he died And seing he is dead we do so leave him forbearing now to write what we could aâ— is well knowen to many 3. He did not like as this man leave or contrary our generall cause and testimony against the Church of England but held it so himself as of late going into England he was there taken and put in prison for this cause where he died vnder their hands These reasons among other we have of not answering it Being notwithstanding alway ready as there is just and needfull occasion to answer for our selves to defend the trueth and equity of our cause dealing or wherein we haue erred to acknowledg and amend it as we have often signifyed heretofore Now for that wherewith he coÌ„cludeth even false accusations of whole Churches would shew it by comparing the 7. accusation in our letters to Mr Iunius with the practise of the Dutch Churches it is to be observed that the particular corruptions there noted whereof we have advertised the Eldership of this Dutch Church be eleâ—eÌ„ in all so as this enemy graunteth himself ten of them to be true And for the other that one whereof he speaketh namely their yearly chaunge of Elders it also is so true as the Ministers themselves deputed among them to deale with vs knowing best their owne estate practise did never so much as once offer to deny it and their continuall practise if they have not left it of late avowcheth it against all gaynsayers Yet this flattâ—rer to speak somewhat for them shameth not to say that is false which is very true like as here before against vs he affirmed those things to be true which are very false A fit servant for his Lords the Prelates with whom it is coÌ„moÌ„ in all their dealing against vs to account give out of the truth that it is falsehood and againe of falsehood that it is trueth That in himself and his Masters may be seen verifyed that saying of Plautê° here alledged Iustum non iustum non iustum iustum quod vobis placet Let them therfore consider their wayes in their heart and lay their hands on their mouth Els let them know that out of their owne mouth they shal be judged according to those
denuntiations reproofs here spoken of both by the Apostle Rom. 2.1 9. and by the Prophet Psal. 50.16 22. and by Christ himself Mat. 7.1 5. Luk. 19.22 Which I leave this hypocrite with his fellowes to ponder and apply to themselves and will now conclude this third head of his Treatise and our answer to his false accusations with that saying of Apuleius Insimulari quivis innocens a quovis nebulone potest Or rather with that answer of Nehemiah It is not done according to thesâ— words that thou sayest but thou feynest them of thyne own heart And with that of Salomon in his Proverbes Be not a witnes against thy neighbour without cause for wilt thou deceive with thy lippes And hitherto concerning the third head of his Treatise Of the fourth head of Th White his Treatise THe fourth and last is that he saith we have drawen the curse of God on our selves by rash vniust wicked excoÌ„munication Where first in generall observe these things 1. That we have the power and vse of excommunication without which no Church can walk aright in obedience of the faith of Christ nor long continue without manifold errors and corruptions prevayling among them 2. That even by this appeareth we hold that evill men may creep into and arise in the Church 3. And that when they are once knowen and will not be reclaymed from their evill we approue them not but cast them out from among vs. And so this fourth poynt being well observed overthroweth the whole tenour and intendement of all his writing against vs. Now to come to the particulars 1. About thirteen yeares synce this Church through persecutioÌ„ in England was driven to come into these countreyes A while after they were come hither divers of them fell into the heresies of the Anabaptists which are too common in these countreys and so persisting were excommunicated by the rest Then a while after that againe many others of whom specially I think he speaketh heâ—â— some elder some younger even too many though not the haâ— as I vnderstand fell into a schisme from the rest and so many of them as continewed therein were cast out divers other of them repenting and returning before excomunication divers of them after As for him in particular of whom he speaketh that he was distracted in mynd 1. He was not then so knowen to be neyther so reputed of his fellowes but onely that he had some trouble of conscience which disquieted him 2. Yet sithens it hath bene pleaded by some that he was distâ—acted wherevpon to himself it hath ben offred by the Church that if he would come affirme as much publikly in the Church as he and others had said more privately to some of vs thereabout and that the contrary could not by any be shewed against him then the Church would acknowledg that they offended in casting him out and he should be received agayne But this he would never yet do although it have bene signifyed to him againe and agayne by my self and others that thus the Church had agreed concerning him And thus standeth his case For the excoÌ„munication in generall it was in deed recalled wheervpon C.S. one of the schismed here mentioned by him wrote vnto me thereabout And here the Reader is to know that my self with some others of vs both of the officers and other brethren were then prisoners at London while these things fell out in the Church being in the Low countreyes Now in his letter he wrote that the brethren had revoked it as rash and vniust denying also that he and the rest with him had made the separation c. With this letter I acquainted the other also then in prison we thought it best considering the case as we had before ben informed and tooke it to be to send his letter to the brethren aforesaid that they might see how he had written thereof we might know the truth of things how they stood Wherevpon the matter being againe and further examined both by them by vs as in such estate and distance of place we could do it was in the end agreed vpon by the Church that the excommunication was iust and not to be recalled notwithstanding the errors in the maner of proceeding thereabout which the Church then did and alway is ready to acknowledg and wherevpon they had before revoked it 〈◊〉 vniust onely in respect of that cirâ—umstance but not at all clearing the schismed of their transgression they stood in which at that time the schismed themselues agreâ—d vnto confessing the cause they stood for to be evill And now both for their good whom this matter more specially concerneth as also for the satisfying of others and that Th. White his abusing of vs may better appeare I will here briefly note downe the grounds whervpon the excommunication was esteemed iust not to be recalled as I find in some writings reserved about this matter Which was thus 1. The excommunicated were found to be abettours of an evill cause and therevpon to have made the schisme at the first and so were guilty of the sinne for which they were proceeded against And this was then agreed on all hands as we were let to vnderstand 2. They also were afterward divers tymes and wayes reproved admonished thereof They had sight of the witnesses testimonies about the matter then in question they heard the reasons gathered by one of the brethren for their conviction the Church sent vnto them of the best able of the brethren to deale with them besides that we wrote from London concerning this matter exhorting them to peace c. And all this before the last message of the Church vnto them which was that they should â—â—me to the Church there they should be convicted or if they came not they should be cast out 3. They yet remayned impenitent and despised the Churches voyce and authority Which appeared by their answer to the Churches message aforesaid being to this effect That as by coÌ„maundemeÌ„t or as vnto the Church they would not come at any time And that whereas some of them were to go out of the towne on the morrow and all of them were at that time vnprovided to maynteyne their cause if they might have a hand with them in appointing another day they would come to conferre with them and mainteyne that they did In which answer be divers things shewing their impenitency and despising the Churches authority 1. Their answering resolutely that by comaundement or as vnto the Church they would not come at any time 2. That they would have an hand in appointing the day when they would come Which might have greatly infringed the libertie power of the Church to yeeld vnto schismaticks an equall authority in such cases 3. That their comming should be to conferre and mainteyne their cause not to shew repentance Besides that some of them also dispitefully asked the brethren when they would draw out their woodden
office and the thing before this tyme not knowen to the Church concerning him although if it had bene knowen consideration were to be had of the nature of the thing done of the condition of the person of the estate of the Church and other the like circumstances to be observed thereabout that both before and after his being in office he had well approved himself to and with the Church to the great help comfort of vs all c. 2. Yet notwithstanding they persisted and left of to participate with the Church in all his ministration therin 3. We entreated them that they would not so walk but to continew with vs as before at least till we might eyther among our selves or by others have further help and dealing about this matter but they would not Wherevpon they were for this leaving of communion with the Church together with other causes which he noteth not cast out and some of them a good while synce vpon their repentance received in againe For that which he saith of not answering the reasons in writing note these things 1. We were absent from the Church when we wrote the reasons aforesaid in a letter sent hither but now were here present with the Church to speak mouth to mouth with any that did or should make question thereabout 2. We also signified that if it were so that we were absent having like occasion as before we would then write as before we had done but being now present to speak and reason together we thought it best so to do Not to speak any thing now of the persons and their dealing that would have it otherwise 3. Yet when the matter was still vrged we further advised agreed about it of some particular circuÌ„stances or cautions to be observed therin Which were set down in writing and given to the ruling Elders for any that would come to read or reason thereabout And vpon occasion we gave the same also in writing to the Eldership of the Dutch Church here These things T. White himself knoweth and heretofore thought it sufficient to satisfy any that were reasonable howsoever now he write thereof And where he saith we would not suffer the reasons to be read in our meeting being requested there vnto sometimes in deed we did not suffer it wishing the parties that were contrary minded vnto vs to shew their reasons out of the word of God whether they were those conteyned in that writing or any other and so to reason from that ground which is the onely rule of our faith sometimes also for the more satisfying of all they were both read and reasoned of in our publik meeting As for playing Sathans part let him apply it to himself who hath heretofore both by word and writing out of the Scriptures approved our cause against the Antichristian estate of the Church of England and having now left and oppugning it yet hath not nor ever can vse as good meanes to disprove it and to approve the estate of that Church whither he is returned With whom also it is so common throughout his book to obiect against vs things very false to conceale or deprave the things he knoweth to be good and all this to calumniate the truth and vs that wiâ—nesse it before the world For that which he annexeth of Mr Ad. such as were here present do neyther remember it nor think it to be true howsoever he affirme it And if it had so bene yet who knoweth not that alteration of practise doth vsually follow alteration of judgement And if in other cases why not in this also Finally we do here know but in part are subiect to erre both in our judgment and in our walking as I deny not but in these things thus much vrged vpon vs we may have done Yet our desire hath bene and I trust shal be alway to try all things by the word of God and to keep that which is good 4. The fourth instance is of W.A. cast out for recalling a former Schisme spoken of a little before in his first instance Whatsoever W.A. now say the Church heard and see what then he spake did If he do still repent of that Schisme standing to the acknowledgemeÌ„t he made that matter is soone ended To the writing of Th. White and others about this matter this answer was given by the Elders which the messengers can testify that it being about excomunicatioÌ„ it was a matter which coÌ„cerned the whole body of the Church and therefore if they had any thing to say thereabout they should come to the Church at our publick meeting and there they should have an answer But thither came they not So themselves kept back an answer from themselves And still Th. VVhite keepeth on his course to write falselie What the schisme here spoken of was whereabout see before pag. 65. As for appealing seing it is from an inferior Iudge to a superiour we hold it Antichristian to enterteyne or admit of such appeales from one Church to another because Christ the Lord hath given like equall power authority to all his Churches on the earth Yet notwithstanding may and ought one Church to help another by any good meanes they can as there is occasion But what is this to the appealing and tryall whereof he speaketh when such as be excoÌ„municated by this Church would have their matters and the like submitted to the Dutch and French Churches here or any other els where For which themselves could not by the word of God shew any warrant And against which we had have these reasons following 1. That the Iudge which God hath ordeyned in these cases is to be submitted vnto and not to any other Deut. 17.8.9.10.11.12 2. That the highest Iudge ordeyned now of the Lord for all sinners by Ecclesiasticall censure is the Church even that particular Church whereof the sinner is a member Mat. 18.17 with 1 Cor. 5.4.5.12.13 3. That all Churches of Christ haue equall power and are not one over another but have Christ himself over all and in middest of all Rev. 1.13 2.1 And therefore in vrging our Church to submit to another Church they sought to draw it into AntichristiaÌ„ bondage which we might by no meanes yeeld vnto Gal. 5.1 Rev. 14.9.12 4. The sinne and sinner being bound in heaven how may the cause be submitted to men on earth Mat. 18.18 5. If the censures of the Church then also other doctrines of the Gospell our faith in Christ might aswell by the same ground be brought to like submission 6. It is contrary also to the Confession of our faith published Artic. 24.25 7. And this way there would be no end of strife for if the two Churches disagreed a third higher must be sought vnto by like reason and if yet they agreed not an higher then that and thus might the vsurped Supremacy of the Romish Church and Pope grow and be established 8. Finally if we might
written in particular that they said Our father which art in heaven c. there were some proportion in his maner of reason which now is not Besides the Apostles and Evangelists themselves recording the institution and vse of the Lords supper observe not the same words alike yet all of them agree in the same matter and substance Mat. 26.26.27.28 Mark 14.22.23.24 Luk. 22.19.20 1 Cor. 11.24.25 And why should we not think likewise of their administration of Baptismâ— that it was according to thâ— coÌ„maundement of Christ though the same particular words be not rehearsed Or how can any make question of it when it is recorded that they baptised not in their owne name but in the Name of the Lord Act. 2 38.41 10.48 Rom. 6 3. 1 Cor. 1.13.15 Gal. 3.27 with Mat. 28.19 And so by their example have taught vs how to vnderstand and vsâ— these things aright Exception 3. 3. It is the Anabaptists reasoning against childrens baptisme asking for an example when otherwise there is sufficient warrant so to do yet are their Pretences as good or better then Mr Iohnsons in refusing obedience to our Lords commaundement for want of an example Answer A childish collection froÌ„ the Anabaptists errour about childrenâ— baptisme How often shall we speak it that other sufficient warrant from the Scriptures is as good as a thousand examples And why will he needs shew himself to be like the Anabaptists who would bring in a worship of God for which there cannot be shewed sufficient warrant eyther by precept or by example or sound collection from the Scriptures and so by consequence in tyme deprive the Church of that true worship of God which we are taught both by commaundement and by example and by vnanswerable reasons drawen out of the word of God Wherein the very experience of former tymes so extreemly corrupted in this exercise of prayer might and ought to teach vs to be more carefull For administring the seale of Gods covenant and sacrament of iâ—itiation consequently of Baptisme vnto children being the seed of the faithfull we have both precept example and vndeniable reasons out of the word of God which I will not here stand to relate If our reasons towching the vse of the forme of Prayer spoken of be so weak as he pretendeth why did he not vndertake to answer them but chuse rather to insist vpoÌ„ the Pretences which now he hath purposelie published concerning that Argument And why will he never leave begging of that which he should prove that i◠〈◊〉 our Lords commaundement to say over the very words prescribed Mat. 6. â— Luk 11. for our prayer vnto God Exception 4. 4. The Prayers mencioned in the new Testament are such as 〈◊〉 powred forth vpon speciall occasion as Act. 4.24 Ioh. 17. Answer An absurd pretence and such as wherein he is against himself yeelding that the Lords prayer is not to be vsed vpon speciall occasion or els he speaketh nothing to the purpose And if it teach vs not how to pray vpoÌ„ speciall occasion how is it a perfect directioÌ„ Or if it do yet be not in such case to be vsed how plain is it that Christs meaning the Apostles vnderstanding of it was such as not to prescribe it for our prayer but for our instruction and direction therein Againe Christ saith When ye pray say Our father c. therefore also vpon speciall occasion if that were his meaning as he would perswade Not to speak how themselves commonly hold and give out that it is such as is fit to be vsed at all tymes and for all occasions So well they agree together But why doth he cite here Ioh. 17. wherein Christs prayer a little before his death is mentioned Is it to shew that though Christ did not then vse it praying vpon speciall occasion yet at other times he did If this bâ— his intendement who will believe him that Christ who had no sinn could aske forgivenes of sinne as in that forme of prayer is prescribed If this be not his meaning to what purpose is that Scripture alledged vnles it be to reason against himself to shew still his owne foolishnes Exception 5. 5 Let them shew me an example where ever the Apostles prayed before their Sermons if they can Answer 1. Have they not read what is written of the Apostles Act. 6.4 how they said to the brethren at Ierusalem Look ye out men whom we may appoint to this busines of the Deacons office And we will give our selves continually to prayer and to the ministration of the word Nor how the Apostle Paul gave direction concerning publick prayer when he wrote to the Churches and to Timothee about publik doctrine whether it were in propheticall or ministeriall vse of the word of God 1 Cor. 11.4 and 14. chap. 1 Tim. 1. and 2. chap. Or when Paul taught Timothee that the food of the body is to be sanctified vnto vs by prayer should he not think likewise of the food of the soule 2. And what though the particular circuÌ„stance of time before or after be not set down Or that the Apostles having to deale with severall sorts of persons occasions did diversly cary themselves according therevnto 3. Or doth it not ly vpon the Ministers in publik to be aswell the mouth of the Church vnto God in prayer as to be the mouth of God to the Church in doctrine Or should we think that the Apostles did not carefully performe the whole worke of the Ministery committed vnto them 4. Finally let these men shew vs an example in the Apostles or Primitive Churches where ever they said their prayers over by tote or vsed a book of Common prayer among them or read any prayers at all for their prayer to God or had Archbishops Lordbishops Archdeacons Priests Parsons Vicars c. eyther for vse of prayer or for any other service Ministery or government of the Churches of Christ. Finis Gen. 25.33.34 Heb. 12.16 Whites Discov pag. 4. Ignorance * Mr Sedg to Mr Pow. Falsehood Mr â—â— Violence Whites Discov pag. 20. Whites Discov pag. 6. Pro. 26.26 Prov. 18.17 Pro. 26.5 Prov. 26.4 Prov. 18.2 Micah 7.8.9.10 (a) Wh. Discovery pag. 5· * Act. 24.5 28.22 Mat. 18.15 17.18.22 Luke 17.4 1 Cor. 5.1.4.5.11.12.13 Esa. 16.4 Psal. 103.6 Psal. 9.18 * Besides the Ministery of the vvord * Since altered as himself knoweth b And this also with consent of the Church then signified c Ansvv. to Mr A. H. pag. 62. * To I.L. in his ovvn hearing d Ansvv. to Mr H. Ia. p. 17 4. * Tremell and Iun. on Exod. 2.23 1 Cor. 1â— Pro. 12.13 * Lib. de Monogam Tertul. lib. de Orat. * Tertull. Lib. de orat a Lib. de praescript aduersus haeret b Lib. de virgin veland Confess with Mr Iun. letters pag. 54. * pag 23. Mr R. Ia. * Whites disco p. 7. in the margent A.P. At Northampton ‡ Whites discov pag 26. Contra Marcion lib. 4. c. 5. Lib. de Orat ‡ Yet resting with peace in their difference of iudgment therabout * 1 Cor. 6.16 * Mat. 19. †1 Cor. 6.9.11 ‡ Of this I think my self haue had speach with this Th. White heretofore howsoever now he write as if he had never heard it of any of vs. A true descript of a visible Church * Num. 12.3 Ps. 106.33 Deut. 5.32 1 Tim. 5.21 Mat. 10.37 †The Prelate of Lond. c. Gen. 29. 30. 31. 34. Gen. 34. 35. 37. 38. chap. Epist. to he Corinhians 2 Cor. 11.13.14.15 Answ. to Mr H. I. p. 14. c. Pro. 11 9 Confess with Mr Iun. letters pag. 54. And that we might would if he did thus W. Simson Apologie Discovery RefutatioÌ„ Questions Answer to Mr H. c. 1 Cor. 10.18 Act. 15. Rom. 14. Phil. 3.16 A Discourse of certaine troubles excom c. Confess with Mr Iun. letters Pag. 54. Nehem. 6.8 Prov. 24.28 ‡ In these countreyes being from the Church vpon occasion †But afterward I did speak more to him here about as he may remeÌ„ber ‡ Smyrnâ— Philadelphia c. †Corinth Galat. Pergamuâ— c. And these were in deed the causes that made vs think more and otherwise of this matter theÌ„ we had done Which we also shewed in the Church ‡ 2 Tim. 1.5 and 3.14.15 and 1 Tim. 4.6.12 with Act. 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. chap. †Ephe. 4.11 Rom. 12.7 Aâ—t 5.29 Prov. 26.2 Psal. 109.17.18 Numb 16. Gen. 9.29.27 †Whites Discov p. 24. Prov. 11.21 Eccles. 10.12.13 * Aswell those that have fallen as the rest * Mat. 6.9 ‡ Apologie Discovery Questions Answ to Mr H. c. See also Iob 22.17 Esa. 44.17 Ier. 2.27 Hab. 2.19 1 Cor. 11.20 c. Gen. 5. 2 Tim. 4.4.5