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cause_n church_n time_n true_a 2,011 5 4.6818 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A66965 The Greeks opinion touching the Eucharist misrepresented by Monsieur Claude in his answer to Mr. Arnold R. H., 1609-1678. 1686 (1686) Wing W3447; ESTC R26397 39,994 38

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c._n 6._o who_o say_v they_o hold_v after_o the_o union_n only_o unam_fw-la naturam_fw-la sine_fw-la tamen_fw-la mixtione_fw-la &_o sine_fw-la confusione_n i._n e._n of_o those_o two_o nature_n of_o which_o the_o one_o afterward_o be_v compound_v which_o testimony_n may_v serve_v either_o to_o expound_v or_o to_o confront_v one_o or_o two_o of_o the_o other_o he_o bring_v that_o seem_v to_o say_v otherwise_o urge_v to_o he_o the_o confession_n of_o protestant_n grotius_n bishop_n forbes_n and_o other_o though_o themselves_o of_o a_o contrary_a persuasion_n that_o the_o modern_a greek_a church_n believe_v transubstantiation_n for_o which_o they_o cite_v their_o late_a writer_n the_o read_n of_o who_o convince_v they_o in_o this_o though_o it_o can_v mr._n claude_n of_o these_o two_o grotius_n and_o forbes_n he_o reply_v 4._o reply_v l._n 4._o c._n 4._o that_o they_o be_v person_n who_o admit_v themselves_o to_o be_v prepossessed_n with_o chimerical_a fancy_n and_o
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nothing_o worth_a urge_v the_o socinian_o because_o the_o father_n oppose_v so_o manifest_o their_o own_o opinion_n therefore_o more_o apt_a to_o speak_v the_o truth_n of_o they_o in_o their_o oppose_v also_o those_o of_o other_o protestant_n and_o particular_o in_o their_o differ_v from_o they_o in_o this_o point_n of_o the_o eucharist_n he_o tell_v we_o they_o be_v not_o creditable_a in_o their_o testimony_n because_o so_o much_o interest_v to_o decry_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o father_n in_o their_o own_o regard_n and_o thus_o they_o imagine_v protestant_n will_v have_v less_o countenance_n to_o press_v they_o with_o a_o authority_n that_o themselves_o can_v stand_v to_o urge_v the_o centurist_n confess_v transubstantiation_n find_v in_o some_o of_o the_o father_n and_o in_o magnify_v their_o new-begun_a reformation_n more_o free_a plain_o to_o acknowledge_v those_o they_o think_v error_n of_o former_a time_n he_o 5._o he_o l._n 1._o c._n 5._o deny_v they_o fit_a witness_n in_o this_o controversy_n because_o themselves_o hold_v a_o real_a presence_n they_o have_v rather_o admit_v a_o transubstantiation_n in_o the_o father_n than_o a_o presence_n only_o mystical_a and_o suppose_v such_o excuse_n shall_v fail_v he_o yet_o how_o easy_a be_v it_o to_o find_v some_o other_o whereby_o a_o person_n may_v be_v represent_v never_o to_o stand_v in_o a_o exact_a indifferency_n as_o to_o whatever_o subject_a of_o his_o discourse_n with_o such_o personal_a exception_n m._n claude_n frequent_o seek_v to_o relieve_v his_o cause_n where_o nothing_o else_o will_v do_v it_o whereas_o indeed_o such_o a_o common_a veracity_n be_v to_o be_v suppose_v among_o man_n especial_o as_o to_o these_o matter_n of_o fact_n that_o where_o a_o multitude_n though_o of_o a_o party_n concern_v concur_v in_o their_o testimony_n they_o can_v reasonable_o be_v reject_v on_o such_o a_o account_n either_o that_o their_o be_v deceive_v or_o purpose_n to_o deceive_v and_o to_o relate_v a_o lie_n be_v possible_a or_o that_o what_o they_o say_v can_v be_v show_v a_o thing_n well-pleasing_a and_o agreeable_a to_o their_o own_o inclination_n for_o as_o it_o be_v true_a that_o one_o own_o interest_n if_o as_o to_o his_o own_o particular_a very_o considerable_a render_v a_o testimony_n less_o credible_a so_o on_o the_o other_o side_n almost_o no_o testimony_n will_v be_v valid_a and_o current_n if_o it_o be_v to_o be_v decry_v where_o can_v be_v show_v some_o favour_n or_o engagement_n of_o affection_n to_o the_o thing_n which_o the_o person_n witness_v and_o can_v be_v manifest_v a_o equal_a poise_n to_o all_o party_n and_o so_o for_o example_n in_o the_o narration_n of_o another_o country_n religion_n often_o make_v by_o all_o party_n none_o here_o can_v be_v believe_v save_v in_o what_o he_o testify_v of_o they_o against_o his_o own_o such_o thing_n therefore_o be_v to_o be_v decide_v according_a to_o the_o multitude_n and_o paucity_n and_o the_o reputation_n of_o the_o witness_n rather_o than_o their_o only_o some_o way_n general_a interest_n and_o the_o credibility_n of_o such_o thing_n be_v to_o be_v leave_v to_o the_o equal_a reader_n be_v judgement_n §_o 8_o but_o 7_o shall_v all_o that_o be_v say_v touch_v the_o late_a greek_n from_o the_o eleven_o or_o the_o eight_o to_o the_o present_a age_n their_o hold_a transubstantiation_n be_v undeniable_o make_v good_a and_o all_o the_o testimony_n concern_v it_o exact_o true_a yet_o he_o say_v 1._o say_v l._n 2._o c._n 1._o it_o will_v not_o follow_v that_o a_o change_v of_o the_o church_n former_a faith_n in_o this_o point_n be_v impossible_a or_o have_v not_o actual_o happen_v and_o consequent_o that_o all_o m._n arnauld_n be_v long_a dispute_n about_o it_o be_v vain_a and_o unprofitable_a i_o add_v and_o then_o so_o his_o reply_v but_o here_o since_o the_o true_a sense_n and_o meaning_n of_o antiquity_n on_o what_o side_n this_o stand_v be_v the_o thing_n chief_o question_v and_o debate_v between_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o protestant_n unless_o he_o will_v throw_v off_o this_o too_o and_o retreat_n only_o to_o sense_n of_o scripture_n i_o suppose_v to_o wise_a man_n it_o will_v seem_v little_o less_o than_o the_o loss_n of_o the_o protestant_a cause_n and_o too_o great_a a_o prejudice_n to_o it_o to_o be_v so_o slight_o yield_v up_o if_o that_o not_o the_o roman_a only_o but_o the_o whole_a visible_a catholic_n church_n beside_o themselves_o from_o the_o eleven_o to_o the_o present_a age_n do_v defend_v a_o corporal_a presence_n and_o a_o literal_a sense_n of_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la or_o also_o transubstantiation_n and_o so_o consequent_o do_v concur_v and_o vote_n against_o they_o touch_v the_o sense_n of_o former_a antiquity_n for_o this_o each_o side_n in_o their_o present_a doctrine_n and_o practise_v pretend_v to_o follow_v and_o i_o can_v hardly_o think_v m._n claude_n will_v seem_v to_o spend_v so_o great_a a_o part_n of_o his_o book_n to_o defend_v a_o post_n the_o loss_n of_o which_o he_o think_v no_o way_n harm_v he_o again_o thus_o it_o be_v manifest_a that_o in_o a_o ecumenical_a council_n if_o now_o assemble_v the_o protestant_n will_v remain_v the_o party_n condemn_v §_o 9_o 8._o after_o all_o these_o defence_n wherewith_o he_o seem_v sufficient_o guard_v he_o proceed_v l._n 3._o c._n 13._o thus_o to_o declare_v the_o true_a opinion_n of_o the_o modern_a greek_n on_o this_o subject_a which_o i_o will_v give_v you_o in_o his_o own_o word_n p._n 310._o they_o believe_v say_v he_o that_o by_o the_o sanctification_n or_o consecration_n be_v make_v a_o composition_n of_o the_o bread_n and_o wine_n and_o of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n that_o these_o symbol_n keep_v their_o own_o nature_n be_v join_v to_o the_o divinity_n and_z that_o by_o the_o impression_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n they_o be_v change_v for_o the_o faithful_a alone_o the_o body_n of_o our_o lord_n be_v suppose_v either_o to_o be_v not_o present_a at_o all_o or_o to_o cease_v to_o be_v so_o in_o the_o particle_n of_o the_o symbol_n receive_v by_o the_o unworthy_a into_o the_o virtue_n of_o the_o body_n and_o blood_n of_o jesus_n christ_n be_v by_o this_o mean_n make_v not_o a_o figure_n but_o the_o proper_a and_o true_a body_n of_o jesus_n christ_n and_o this_o by_o the_o way_n of_o augmentation_n of_o the_o same_o natural_a body_n of_o jesus_n christ_n to_o which_o they_o apply_v the_o comparison_n of_o the_o nourishment_n which_o be_v make_v our_o own_o body_n by_o assimilation_n and_o augmentation_n again_o p._n 237._o more_o brief_o the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o greek_a church_n be_v that_o the_o substance_n of_o bread_n conserve_n its_o proper_a be_v be_v add_v to_o the_o natural_a body_n of_o jesus_n christ_n that_o it_o be_v render_v like_o unto_o it_o that_o it_o augment_v and_o by_o this_o mean_n become_v the_o same_o body_n with_o it_z by_o this_o also_o he_o say_v p._n 334._o and_o see_v the_o same_o in_o his_o four_o l._n c._n 7._o the_o greek_n will_v observe_v in_o some_o sort_n the_o literal_a sense_n of_o the_o word_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la which_o say_v he_o we_o do_v not_o we_o understand_v they_o in_o this_o sense_n this_o bread_n be_v the_o sacred_a sign_n or_o sacrament_n of_o my_o body_n or_o which_o come_v to_o the_o same_o pass_n the_o bread_n signify_v my_o body_n they_o on_o the_o contrary_a take_v the_o word_n be_v in_o some_o sort_n according_a to_o the_o letter_n will_v have_v that_o the_o same_o subject_n which_o be_v the_o bread_n be_v also_o the_o body_n of_o christ._n from_o preserve_v this_o pretend_a literal_a sense_n it_o be_v also_o that_o they_o will_v have_v it_o that_o the_o bread_n be_v make_v one_o with_o the_o body_n by_o its_o union_n to_o the_o divinity_n by_o the_o impression_n of_o the_o holy_a ghost_n and_o by_o a_o change_n of_o virtue_n or_o as_o he_o have_v it_o in_o his_o 6_o l._n c._n 10._o that_o there_o be_v a_o union_n of_o
without_o the_o which_o a_o real_a presence_n may_v not_o be_v believe_v and_o a_o due_a adoration_n in_o some_o convenient_a manner_n or_o other_o practise_v 2_o the_o occasion_n of_o they_o be_v well_o know_v to_o have_v be_v the_o berengarian_a and_o many_o other_o error_n concern_v the_o eucharist_n which_o appear_v here_o in_o the_o west_n but_o disturb_v not_o the_o east_n which_o error_n infer_v many_o indignity_n and_o affront_n to_o this_o rich_a and_o dear_a legacy_n of_o our_o depart_a lord_n cause_v the_o church_n to_o multiply_v also_o the_o external_a testification_n of_o her_o devotion_n gratitude_n and_o reverence_n to_o it_o and_o god_n wisdom_n as_o usual_o out_o of_o such_o vilifying_n and_o disrespect_n extract_v a_o great_a honour_n as_o to_o external_n ceremony_n to_o these_o high_a mystery_n so_o also_o the_o many_o subtle_a question_n that_o have_v be_v discuss_v and_o state_v among_o the_o latin_n not_o so_o much_o think_v on_o by_o the_o greek_n but_o all_o shut_v in_o a_o quo_fw-la modo_fw-la novit_fw-la deus_fw-la another_o frequent_a argument_n with_o this_o author_n of_o the_o greek_n not_o believe_v transubstantiation_n acknowledge_v the_o same_o original_a viz._n the_o provocation_n objection_n contrary_a false-position_n of_o the_o heterodox_n which_o force_v the_o church_n to_o descend_v to_o the_o same_o particular_n with_o they_o nor_o can_v she_o censure_v these_o as_o error_n without_o establish_v their_o contradictory_n as_o truth_n this_o of_o adoration_n §_o 22_o to_o conclude_v the_o many_o concenssion_n of_o m._n claude_n and_o the_o consequence_n of_o they_o foremention_v seem_v to_o i_o sufficient_a one_a to_o dissuade_v any_o sober_a and_o modest_a person_n who_o rely_v not_o on_o his_o own_o judgement_n for_o the_o controvert_v sense_n of_o holy_a scripture_n but_o hold_v it_o a_o safe_a way_n to_o conform_v to_o that_o of_o church-authority_n to_o dissuade_v he_o i_o say_v from_o any_o such_o communion_n as_o he_o see_v by_o the_o former_a account_n oppose_v both_o by_o the_o latin_n and_o the_o greek_n greeks_n present_a or_o past_a as_o high_a as_o damascen_n in_o the_o eight_o age_n and_o may_v not_o i_o say_v as_o high_a as_o gregory_n nyssen_n 12._o nyssen_n see_v before_o §._o 12._o in_o the_o four_o whilst_o both_o these_o latin_n and_o greek_n hold_v a_o real_a or_o corporal_a presence_n of_o our_o lord_n in_o the_o eucharist_n and_o agree_v in_o a_o literal_a sense_n of_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la nor_o will_v m._n claude_n enter_v with_o his_o adversary_n into_o this_o controversy_n 2._o next_o to_o persuade_v he_o of_o the_o two_o rather_o to_o the_o roman_a communion_n as_o who_o transubstantiation_n beside_o that_o it_o have_v be_v establish_v by_o so_o many_o council_n 1._o council_n see_v the_o guide_n in_o controversy_n disc_n 1._o be_v of_o itself_o much_o more_o credible_a and_o more_o accommodate_v to_o the_o scripture-expression_n than_o i_o know_v not_o what_o fancy_v augmentation_n of_o christ_n natural_a body_n bear_v of_o the_o bless_a virgin_n by_o a_o new_a breaden_a one_o assume_v in_o the_o eucharist_n numerical_o distinct_a from_o the_o other_o yet_o by_o the_o like_a assumption_n and_o union_n to_o our_o lord_n divinity_n render_v personal_o one_o and_o the_o same_o body_n with_o it_o 58._o §._o 57_o 58._o but_o how_o much_o more_o will_v he_o be_v confirm_v in_o the_o same_o resolution_n if_o by_o what_o have_v be_v say_v above_o etc._n above_o §._o 14_o etc._n etc._n he_o discern_v m._n claude_n relation_n of_o the_o modern_a greek_a opinion_n unsound_a and_o that_o the_o main_a body_n of_o they_o except_o perhaps_o some_o few_o impanatist_n that_o have_v be_v there_o as_o also_o in_o the_o western_a church_n in_o hold_v a_o total_a substantial_a change_n of_o the_o bread_n have_v accord_v with_o the_o roman_a church_n §_o 23_o i_o hope_v the_o reader_n will_v pardon_v this_o digression_n the_o rather_o because_o it_o serve_v much_o to_o illustrate_v that_o whereof_o i_o be_v discourse_v 1._o discourse_v §._o 321_o n._n 1._o that_o notwithstanding_o whatever_o evidence_n of_o truth_n answer_v and_o reply_v from_o person_n ingenious_a and_o pre-engaged_n find_v no_o end_n and_o that_o when_o controversy_n be_v by_o one_o of_o the_o contend_a party_n deny_v any_o decisive_n judge_n though_o error_n may_v easy_o be_v overcome_v yet_o it_o can_v hardly_o be_v silence_v for_o as_o god_n for_o the_o great_a trial_n of_o our_o obedience_n have_v permit_v in_o the_o world_n not_o only_o evil_a but_o very_o many_o allurement_n also_o and_o enticement_n to_o it_o so_o not_o only_o error_n but_o many_o verisimility_n and_o appearance_n of_o reason_n ever_o ready_a to_o support_v it_o with_o those_o that_o do_v not_o by_o humility_n attain_v the_o illumination_n of_o his_o grace_n evidence_n sufficient_a god_n have_v leave_v always_o to_o clear_v and_o manifest_v all_o necessary_a truth_n to_o those_o who_o be_v of_o a_o obedient_a spirit_n and_o willing_a to_o learn_v it_o but_o not_o sufficient_a to_o force_v like_o the_o mathematics_n the_o understanding_n of_o the_o self-confident_a and_o interest_v to_o gainsay_v it_o but_o that_o they_o may_v have_v some_o fair_a colour_n or_o other_o to_o oppose_v to_o it_o and_o catch_v the_o credulous_a all_o which_o still_o more_o infer_v the_o great_a necessity_n of_o church-authority_n and_o a_o conformity_n to_o it_o and_o the_o reasonableness_n of_o mounseur_fw-fr maimbourg_n method_n for_o reduce_v protestant_n to_o the_o true_a faith_n viz._n 8._o viz._n §._o 8._o that_o matter_n once_o decide_v by_o this_o authority_n shall_v be_v no_o long_o dispute_v a_o rule_n the_o protestant_n i_o e._n the_o more_o potent_a party_n of_o they_o for_o preserve_v their_o own_o peace_n will_v have_v to_o be_v observe_v in_o the_o difference_n among_o themselves_o show_v in_o the_o proceed_n of_o the_o synod_n at_o dort_n of_o which_o see_v before_o §_o 254._o n._n 2._o but_o not_o in_o those_o between_o they_o and_o roman_a catholic_n because_o here_o they_o be_v the_o weak_a to_o who_o m._n claude_n answer_v in_o the_o preface_n of_o his_o last_o reply_n to_o d._n arnauld_n be_v this_o it_o be_v unjust_a say_v he_o that_o he_o will_v have_v the_o decision_n of_o council_n to_o be_v prescription_n against_o we_o the_o protestant_n not_o remember_v that_o nothing_o can_v prescribe_v against_o truth_n especial_o when_o it_o concern_v our_o salvation_n and_o the_o determination_n of_o council_n not_o be_v with_o we_o of_o any_o consideration_n but_o as_o they_o do_v conform_v to_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o to_o the_o principle_n of_o christian_a religion_n we_o can_v have_v from_o hence_o any_o reasonable_a or_o profitable_a way_n to_o end_v the_o particular_a difference_n that_o divide_v we_o but_o only_o this_o to_o examine_v the_o matter_n to_o the_o bottom_n to_o discern_v whether_o such_o conformity_n i._n e._n of_o the_o council_n to_o the_o scripture_n which_o we_o suppose_v necessary_a be_v or_o be_v not_o to_o which_o he_o add_v there_o as_o also_o frequent_o elsewhere_o that_o the_o short_a and_o sure_a and_o only_o right_a way_n for_o settle_v the_o conscience_n in_o repose_n which_o must_v rest_v its_o faith_n immediate_o on_o god_n word_n and_o divine_a revelation_n be_v for_o both_o party_n to_o proceed_v to_o the_o trial_n of_o their_o cause_n all_o other_o authority_n and_o method_n lay_v aside_o by_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o when_o he_o be_v press_v by_o his_o adversary_n that_o in_o these_o controversy_n at_o least_o all_o person_n doubt_v i._n e._n what_o be_v the_o true_a sense_n of_o the_o scripture_n controvert_v and_o of_o antiquity_n expound_v they_o and_o not_o certain_a of_o the_o contrary_a of_o what_o the_o church_n teach_v concern_v they_o as_o all_o unlearned_a protestant_n must_v be_v ought_v herein_o to_o conform_v and_o adhere_v rather_o to_o the_o church_n than_o to_o separatist_n he_o seek_v to_o decline_v it_o thus_o that_o the_o simple_a person_n may_v receive_v sufficient_a certainty_n from_o the_o clearness_n of_o scripture_n in_o all_o matter_n necessary_a that_o from_o these_o scripture_n learn_v what_o he_o ought_v to_o believe_v he_o may_v easy_o know_v also_o whether_o the_o society_n he_o live_v in_o be_v a_o true_a church_n and_o such_o as_o will_v conduct_v he_o to_o salvation_n that_o hence_o he_o need_v not_o trouble_v himself_o with_o controversy_n touch_v what_o the_o former_a church_n have_v believe_v yet_o that_o our_o lord_n promise_v to_o be_v with_o true_a believer_n to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n so_o as_o they_o shall_v not_o fall_v into_o damnable_a error_n charity_n oblige_v he_o without_o his_o read_v they_o to_o believe_v that_o the_o father_n be_v of_o this_o number_n and_o so_o that_o they_o believe_v as_o they_o ought_v and_o so_o be_v of_o his_o faith_n to_o give_v you_o his_o own_o word_n l._n 1._o c._n 4