of_o david_n who_o though_o the_o eternal_a punishment_n due_a to_o the_o guilt_n of_o his_o sin_n be_v for_o give_v yet_o be_v punish_v temporal_o by_o the_o death_n of_o his_o son_n for_o these_o be_v the_o word_n in_o scripture_n after_o his_o sin_n be_v forgive_v 12._o because_o thou_o have_v cause_v the_o name_n of_o god_n to_o be_v blaspheme_v the_o child_n that_o be_v bear_v to_o thâ—e_n shall_v die_v in_o like_o sort_n david_n sin_n in_o number_v his_o people_n be_v remit_v he_o yet_o be_v he_o put_v to_o choose_v 24._o for_o his_o temporal_a punishment_n and_o satisfaction_n either_o war_n famine_n or_o pestilence_n now_o the_o guilt_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n for_o sin_n be_v remit_v there_o remain_v a_o temporal_a punishment_n and_o this_o temporal_a punishment_n thus_o reserve_v be_v the_o sole_a subject_n of_o indulgence_n therefore_o a_o indulgence_n as_o hear_v the_o word_n be_v take_v be_v a_o merciful_a relaxation_n or_o remission_n of_o temporal_a punishment_n due_a for_o sin_n by_o apply_v the_o supper_n abundant_a satisfaction_n of_o christ_n after_o the_o sin_n itself_o and_o guilt_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n due_a to_o mortal_a sin_n be_v remit_v by_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confession_n or_o for_o want_v thereof_o by_o perfect_a contrition_n the_o ground_n and_o foundation_n of_o indulgencs_n be_v chief_o the_o treasury_n and_o satisfaction_n of_o christ_n death_n which_o be_v of_o that_o infinity_n great_a value_n a_o price_n see_v every_o drop_n of_o his_o blood_n be_v able_a to_o redeem_v a_o thousand_o world_n in_o regard_n of_o his_o divinity_n be_v unite_v to_o his_o humanity_n as_o that_o it_o can_v vever_o be_v exhaust_v for_o we_o read_v that_o 1._o christ_n die_v for_o all_o also_o that_o 2._o christ_n be_v apropitiation_n for_o our_o sin_n and_o not_o for_o our_o sin_n only_o but_o for_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o whole_a world_n but_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o the_o price_n of_o christ_n death_n be_v not_o actual_o apply_v to_o all_o man_n hitherto_o live_v since_o than_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o all_o man_n which_o hitherto_o have_v live_v shall_v have_v be_v save_v therefore_o it_o follow_v that_o there_o yet_o remain_v a_o great_a abundance_n of_o the_o price_n of_o christ_n passion_n if_o it_o be_v not_o in_o finite_a as_o indeed_o it_o be_v to_o be_v apply_v and_o still_o will_v remain_v the_o dispenser_n of_o this_o treasury_n of_o the_o church_n be_v the_o head_n of_o christ_n church_n who_o have_v power_n to_o apply_v this_o treasury_n for_o the_o absolve_a of_o man_n from_o their_o temporal_a punishment_n due_a to_o their_o sin_n already_o remit_v by_o sacramental_a confession_n according_a to_o the_o authority_n give_v he_o in_o those_o word_n whatsoever_o thou_o lose_v upon_o earth_n shall_v be_v lose_a in_o heaven_n with_o which_o 16._o place_n accord_n other_o place_n 20._o of_o the_o evangelist_n now_o these_o word_n be_v general_a they_o do_v extend_v as_o well_o to_o the_o punishment_n due_a for_o sin_n as_o to_o the_o sin_n itself_o see_v the_o punishment_n be_v as_o remissible_a as_o the_o sin_n and_o as_o to_o the_o one_o be_v apply_v christ_n merit_n so_o to_o the_o other_o christ_n â—atisfactions_n the_o cause_n why_o any_o indulgence_n be_v grant_v to_o any_o man_n aught_o to_o be_v just_a and_o reasonable_a or_o otherwise_o the_o indulgence_n grant_v be_v of_o no_o value_n for_o see_v the_o pope_n be_v not_o lord_n of_o this_o spiritual_a treasure_n of_o the_o church_n but_o only_o the_o distributer_n thereof_o therefore_o this_o distribution_n he_o can_v make_v without_o a_o just_a reasonable_a and_o lawful_a cause_n the_o party_n receive_v the_o benefit_n of_o a_o indulgence_n ought_v at_o the_o time_n of_o receive_v it_o to_o be_v in_o state_n of_o grace_n since_o otherwise_o he_o can_v reap_v no_o benefit_n by_o any_o indulgence_n to_o which_o state_n he_o be_v bring_v by_o true_a contrition_n of_o his_o former_a sin_n although_o not_o perhaps_o forgeven_v in_o respect_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n in_o the_o sacrament_n of_o confession_n and_o here_o be_v discover_v the_o trissle_v vanity_n &_o falsehood_n of_o our_o adversary_n in_o affirm_v that_o the_o catholic_n teach_v that_o the_o pope_n can_v give_v a_o fore_a hand_n a_o indulgence_n to_o any_o man_n for_o any_o sin_n which_o hereafter_o be_v to_o be_v commit_v since_o we_o see_v that_o the_o object_n of_o a_o indulgence_n be_v the_o temporal_a punishment_n only_o and_o not_o the_o punishment_n of_o damnation_n and_o this_o for_o a_o sin_n already_o commit_v and_o not_o hereafter_o to_o be_v commit_v of_o which_o a_o man_n be_v in_o state_n of_o grace_n and_o consequent_o not_o one_o who_o bear_v a_o present_a resolution_n to_o commit_v any_o sin_n hereafter_o be_v remit_v by_o his_o indulgence_n apply_v to_o he_o upon_o just_a and_o reasonable_a cause_n we_o be_v further_o hear_v to_o admonish_v that_o the_o party_n receive_v a_o indulgence_n aught_o to_o perform_v entyre_o and_o precisly_a all_o thing_n enjoin_v he_o by_o his_o indulgence_n whether_o it_o be_v prayer_n alm_n fast_v etc._n etc._n according_a to_o that_o usual_a say_n indulgentia_fw-la tantum_fw-la valent_fw-la quantum_fw-la sonant_fw-la where_o it_o be_v teach_v that_o the_o merit_n and_o suffering_n of_o some_o great_a saint_n as_o of_o our_o bless_a lady_n s_o john_n baptiste_n and_o some_o other_o do_v concur_v to_o the_o increase_n of_o this_o spiritual_a treasure_n of_o the_o church_n which_o be_v the_o foundation_n of_o indulgence_n this_o be_v to_o be_v understand_v in_o this_o sense_n to_o wit_n that_o because_o their_o merit_n work_n and_o suffering_n have_v their_o virtue_n and_o value_n only_o from_o the_o merit_n of_o our_o saviour_n passion_n and_o that_o they_o only_o concur_v to_o the_o increase_n of_o the_o treasure_n as_o they_o depend_v upon_o the_o merit_n of_o christ_n therefore_o it_o may_v be_v true_o say_v that_o primative_o and_o original_o only_o the_o merit_n and_o passion_n of_o christ_n do_v make_v this_o spiritual_a treasure_n from_o whence_o indulgence_n do_v flow_v ad_fw-la hearto_fw-la that_o if_o s._n paul_n may_v true_o say_v in_o a_o researued_a sense_n add_v imple_a ea_fw-la quae_fw-la desunt_fw-la passionum_fw-la christi_fw-la in_o earn_v mea_fw-la 1._o pro_fw-la corporâ—â—ius_fw-la quod_fw-la est_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la i_o do_v fulfil_v those_o thing_n that_o do_v want_n of_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n in_o my_o flesh_n for_o his_o body_n which_o be_v the_o church_n word_n which_o if_o any_o catholic_a shall_v have_v aver_v of_o any_o one_o saint_n without_o the_o warrant_n of_o the_o apostle_n he_o shall_v have_v be_v mighre_o calumniate_v and_o wrong_v by_o the_o protestant_n then_o follow_v it_o that_o the_o affliction_n and_o suffering_n of_o s._n paul_n as_o receive_v their_o force_n from_o christ_n passion_n may_v be_v say_v without_o any_o indignity_n to_o christ_n to_o encreasse_n this_o spiritual_a treasure_n of_o the_o church_n for_o these_o former_a word_n do_v not_o import_v that_o there_o be_v any_o defect_n in_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n but_o that_o the_o suffering_n of_o s._n paul_n do_v fulfil_v the_o plenitude_n of_o christ_n his_o passion_n and_o his_o member_n for_o the_o benefit_n of_o those_o to_o who_o they_o be_v to_o be_v communicate_v for_o as_o christ_n be_v the_o invisible_a and_o supreme_a head_n of_o his_o church_n do_v with_o his_o church_n make_v but_o one_o mystical_a body_n so_o his_o suffering_n with_o the_o suffering_n of_o his_o member_n receive_v all_o their_o force_n and_o efficacy_n from_o the_o passion_n of_o christ_n do_v make_v as_o s._n 61._o austin_n affirm_v one_o common_a and_o public_a weâ—le_n or_o one_o public_a treasure_n and_o according_a hereto_o it_o be_v that_o we_o find_v offer_v s._n paul_n affliction_n sometime_o for_o the_o 1._o colossian_n at_o other_o time_n for_o the_o corinthian_n 1._o he_o desire_v at_o one_o time_n to_o die_v for_o the_o roman_n 9_o at_o a_o other_o time_n to_o become_v a_o aâ—athemâ—_n for_o they_o to_o proceed_v further_o the_o old_a testament_n itself_o warrant_v this_o mutual_a communication_n of_o one_o suffer_v for_o a_o other_o and_o in_o this_o sense_n it_o be_v say_v of_o god_n church_n there_o entitle_v jerusalem_n that_o it_o be_v â—21_n as_o a_o city_n who_o participationes_fw-la in_o itself_o that_o be_v as_o in_o a_o public_a city_n there_o be_v a_o general_a traffic_n for_o the_o public_a benefit_n of_o every_o particular_a citizen_n so_o in_o the_o city_n of_o god_n which_o be_v his_o church_n there_o be_v a_o communion_n or_o participation_n of_o all_o the_o spiritual_a work_n thereof_o to_o the_o general_a benefit_n and_o behoof_n of_o eich_n particular_a man._n and_o upon_o this_o ground_n it_o be_v that_o david_n say_v in_o respect_n of_o the_o communication_n of_o one_o man_n suffering_n for_o a_o other_o 218._o
at_o s._n gregory_n his_o send_v of_o augustine_n into_o england_n which_o be_v about_o a_o thousand_o year_n since_o our_o present_a roman_a religion_n be_v then_o whole_o and_o public_o practise_v in_o rome_n &_o that_o if_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n have_v suffer_v any_o change_n of_o faith_n from_o that_o first_o teach_v by_o the_o apostle_n that_o this_o change_n shall_v have_v be_v make_v not_o since_o but_o before_o gregory_n time_n and_o before_o he_o have_v send_v augustine_n to_o plant_v in_o england_n the_o faith_n of_o christ_n i_o may_v add_v m._n doctor_n in_o further_a confirmation_n of_o d._n humphrey_n his_o judgement_n herein_o the_o judgement_n of_o your_o own_o centurist_n who_o in_o their_o index_n or_o alphabetical_a table_n of_o the_o six_o century_n at_o the_o word_n gregory_n set_v down_o with_o particular_a figure_n ofreference_n where_o every_o such_o mention_a opinion_n may_v be_v find_v as_o follow_v eiusdem_fw-la error_n de_fw-la bonis_fw-la operibus_fw-la de_fw-fr confession_n de_fw-fr coniugio_fw-la de_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la de_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la â—nuocatione_n do_v inferno_fw-la de_fw-la libero_fw-la arbitrio_fw-la de_fw-fr â—ustificatione_n de_fw-fr purgatorio_fw-la de_fw-la paeniâ—entia_fw-la de_fw-fr satisfactione_n etc._n etc._n and_o which_o be_v more_o your_o say_a centurist_n 432._o do_v further_o accuse_v gregory_n out_o of_o his_o own_o write_n with_o consecration_n of_o altar_n chalice_n &_o corporal_n with_o oblation_n of_o sacrifice_n for_o the_o dead_a with_o translation_n of_o reltques_n with_o monachisme_n with_o pilgrimage_n with_o consecration_n of_o church_n with_o mass_n &_o sprinkle_v of_o holy-water_n with_o consecration_n of_o the_o fort_n of_o baptism_n of_o chrâ—â—sâ—â—e_n &_o oil_n with_o celibratio_fw-la of_o mass_n &_o final_o with_o claim_n of_o sovereignty_n over_o all_o church_n all_o which_o place_n of_o the_o centurist_n charge_v he_o be_v to_o be_v find_v in_o their_o six_o century_n after_o the_o first_o edition_n thereof_o to_o these_o former_a acknowledgement_n we_o may_v adjoin_v the_o word_n of_o luke_n osiander_n your_o famous_a protestant_n which_o be_v these_o augustinus_n 289._o romanos_fw-la ritus_fw-la et_fw-la consuetudines_fw-la anglicanis_fw-la ecclesus_fw-la obstitit_fw-la and_o then_o immediate_o after_o he_o particular_o set_v down_o several_a rite_n &_o doctrine_n practise_v and_o believe_v at_o this_o present_a by_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n which_o as_o he_o confesle_v augustine_n do_v plant_v &_o establish_v in_o england_n a_o point_n so_o evident_a that_o even_o your_o own_o self_n m._n doctor_n avertes_o 144._o that_o boniface_n the_o three_o who_o live_v anno_fw-la 605._o and_o present_o after_o the_o foresay_a gregory_n and_o all_o his_o successor_n be_v antichrist_n yea_o you_o speak_v of_o the_o conversion_n of_o england_n make_v by_o this_o gregory_n and_o of_o other_o conversion_n of_o country_n by_o other_o pope_n after_o thus_o conclude_v the_o conversion_n 339._o of_o so_o many_o country_n be_v not_o pure_a but_o corrupt_a with_o you_o herein_o davaeus_fw-la that_o remarkable_a protestant_n conspirech_v who_o thus_o base_o censure_v of_o gregory_n convert_n of_o england_n purgatio_fw-la illa_fw-la quam_fw-la gregorius_n primus_fw-la fecit_fw-la etc._n etc._n fuit_fw-la iâ—ebriatio_fw-la mer_fw-fr etricis_fw-la mundo_fw-la facta_fw-la de_fw-la qua_fw-la est_fw-la apocalips_n 17._o et_fw-la 18._o thus_o refer_v our_o conversion_n to_o christianity_n to_o the_o work_n of_o antichrist_n and_o thus_o m_o doctor_n you_o here_o may_v see_v how_o the_o church_n of_o god_n through_o a_o over_o unkind_a pervert_v and_o misconsture_v her_o most_o motherly_a and_o charitable_a endeavour_n have_v reason_n even_o to_o complain_v and_o grieve_v at_o those_o who_o vaunt_v themselves_o for_o her_o own_o child_n so_o the_o vine_n be_v untimely_o cut_v weep_v out_o its_o mishap_n through_o out_o it_o own_o wound_n now_o from_o all_o these_o former_a testimony_n of_o yourself_o m._n doctor_n &_o other_o protestant_a writer_n we_o may_v infallible_o conclude_v that_o from_o this_o day_n till_o we_o arrive_v at_o least_o to_o the_o age_n of_o the_o foresaid_a s._n gregory_n the_o present_a roman_a &_o catholic_a religion_n be_v teach_v in_o diverse_a country_n &_o consequent_o see_v those_o country_n receive_v their_o instruction_n in_o faith_n from_o rome_n that_o it_o be_v not_o during_o all_o this_o time_n introduce_v into_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n as_o a_o innovation_n and_o change_v of_o the_o faith_n afore_o profess_a by_o the_o say_a church_n now_o it_o be_v make_v evident_a first_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n do_v retain_v her_o purity_n of_o faith_n the_o first_o four_o hundred_o and_o forty_o year_n after_o christ_n and_o also_o that_o for_o this_o last_o thousand_o year_n the_o present_a roman_a &_o catholic_a faith_n have_v not_o at_o any_o time_n thereof_o be_v first_o bring_v into_o the_o world_n but_o during_o the_o say_v thousand_o year_n it_o have_v be_v continual_o the_o general_a teach_v doctrine_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n it_o now_o follow_v that_o we_o take_v into_o our_o consideration_n the_o number_n of_o year_n which_o pass_v between_o the_o first_o four_o hundred_o and_o forty_o from_o christ_n and_o these_o last_o thousand_o year_n from_o us._n which_o number_n see_v it_o be_v sixteen_o hundred_o year_n &_o some_o more_o from_o christ_n to_o we_o amount_v to_o about_o one_o hundred_o and_o sixty_o year_n well_o then_o if_o here_o we_o can_v prove_v that_o no_o change_n of_o faith_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n within_o the_o compass_n of_o this_o 160._o year_n then_o follow_v it_o avoidable_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n never_o to_o this_o day_n have_v suffer_v any_o alteration_n in_o faith_n and_o religion_n since_o its_o first_o embrace_v of_o the_o christian_a faith_n that_o no_o change_n of_o faith_n do_v happen_v within_o the_o compass_n of_o the_o say_v 160._o year_n i_o prove_v several_a way_n yet_o all_o conduce_v to_o erect_v this_o one_o main_a truth_n like_v as_o diverse_a lesser_a number_n though_o count_v after_o different_a way_n make_v up_o but_o one_o and_o the_o same_o great_a number_n and_o first_o this_o assertion_n of_o i_o be_v prove_v from_o the_o doctrine_n which_o be_v believe_v and_o general_o teach_v at_o such_o time_n as_o constantine_n who_o be_v our_o first_o christian_a emperor_n be_v convert_v to_o christianity_n which_o be_v about_o the_o year_n 320._o after_o christ_n and_o therefore_o before_o the_o foresay_a 160._o year_n that_o the_o faith_n in_o his_o time_n be_v the_o same_o that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n profess_v at_o this_o present_a appear_v from_o the_o frequent_a testimony_n of_o your_o former_a centurist_n who_o most_o elaborate_o &_o punctual_o do_v record_v all_o the_o particular_a article_n of_o the_o present_a roman_a faith_n to_o be_v believe_v most_o constant_o by_o the_o say_v constantine_n and_o that_o he_o do_v cause_n to_o be_v put_v in_o practice_v all_o the_o ceremony_n now_o use_v in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o the_o say_a centurist_n be_v so_o exact_a and_o diligent_a in_o their_o enumeration_n of_o all_o the_o catholic_a doctrine_n believe_v by_o constantine_n and_o of_o the_o catholic_a rite_n and_o ceremo_n ie_v observe_v in_o his_o time_n as_o that_o they_o spend_v several_a column_n of_o the_o four_o century_n touch_v this_o point_n to_o wit_n from_o column_n 452._o to_o column_n 497._o or_o thereabouts_o now_o that_o not_o only_a constantine_n himself_o but_o also_o the_o whole_a four_o age_n do_v general_o believe_v and_o profess_v the_o now_o profess_a doctrine_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v in_o like_a sort_n abundant_o confess_v &_o register_v by_o the_o say_a centurist_n they_o spend_v most_o of_o the_o leaf_n of_o the_o say_v century_n in_o particularise_v the_o now_o catholic_a doctrine_n and_o the_o doctor_n of_o that_o age_n believe_v &_o teach_v they_o and_o therefore_o for_o the_o great_a manifestation_n of_o this_o point_n i_o remit_v you_o m._n doctor_n to_o the_o â—â—ligent_a perusal_n herein_o of_o their_o four_o century_n touch_v which_o particular_a subject_n i_o be_o so_o confident_a that_o i_o dare_v avouche_v that_o by_o the_o industry_n of_o the_o say_a centurist_n the_o true_a state_n of_o the_o church_n in_o that_o age_n be_v so_o painful_o &_o articulat_o according_a to_o my_o former_a speech_n register_v as_o the_o perfect_a memory_n thereof_o as_o be_v exempt_a from_o all_o oblivion_n in_o future_a day_n be_v able_a to_o turn_v the_o since_o of_o time_n so_o certain_a it_o be_v that_o even_o in_o your_o own_o history_n so_o long_o as_o they_o shall_v be_v extant_a the_o catholic_n shall_v be_v ever_o able_a to_o glass_n the_o true_a face_n of_o their_o time_n but_o m._n doctor_n for_o the_o great_a evidency_n of_o this_o point_n i_o pray_v you_o tell_v i_o whether_o it_o be_v your_o judgement_n that_o the_o father_n live_v in_o the_o four_o age_n but_o especial_o those_o who_o
we_o at_o what_o time_n some_o sensible_a degree_n and_o increase_v of_o this_o suppose_a change_n do_v happen_v and_o the_o manifestation_n of_o these_o degree_n be_v to_o be_v make_v by_o name_v the_o time_n and_o person_n when_o &_o by_o who_o such_o and_o such_o a_o particular_a point_n or_o article_n of_o our_o present_a roman_a religion_n be_v first_o sensible_o introduce_v into_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n the_o which_o not_o any_o protestant_n notwithstanding_o all_o his_o exquisite_a and_o precise_a search_n of_o ecclesiastical_a history_n have_v be_v able_a yet_o to_o perform_v and_o thus_o far_o m._n doctor_n of_o these_o your_o similitude_n which_o you_o see_v in_o a_o true_a balance_v of_o they_o do_v become_v rather_o hurtful_a then_o beneficial_a to_o your_o cause_n and_o therefore_o they_o have_v be_v better_o forbear_v by_o you_o then_o urge_v d._n whitaker_n indeed_o i_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v no_o history_n or_o record_n at_o this_o day_n out_o of_o which_o we_o 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overflow_a of_o many_o dreadful_a and_o blasphemous_a doctrine_n then_o broach_v and_o defend_v by_o he_o but_o here_o i_o refer_v two_o point_n to_o the_o mature_a consideration_n of_o you_o m._n doctor_n and_o these_o two_o learned_a man_n here_o present_a first_o whether_o luther_n can_v true_o be_v challenge_v at_o this_o day_n for_o a_o perfect_a protestant_n and_o consequent_o whether_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n can_v be_v true_o iustify_v in_o he_o consider_v both_o the_o several_a catholic_a doctrine_n as_o also_o the_o many_o explorat_a heresye_n and_o blasphemye_n he_o maintain_v even_o after_o his_o revolt_n from_o the_o papacy_n the_o second_o though_o but_o incidentall_a at_o this_o present_a whether_o it_o sort_v to_o the_o sweet_a proceed_n of_o god_n to_o use_v as_o his_o instrument_n for_o the_o re-edify_n of_o his_o church_n admit_v it_o afore_o ruin_a a_o man_n who_o practise_v his_o pen_n and_o this_o after_o his_o suppose_a calling_n to_o the_o wrong_v of_o christian_a faith_n and_o charity_n to_o the_o fortify_v of_o the_o state_n and_o empire_n of_o christ_n great_a enemy_n to_o the_o expunge_v of_o god_n sacred_a writ_n and_o convitiate_a of_o his_o great_a servant_n to_o the_o disauthorize_a of_o all_o christian_a prince_n and_o civil_a magistrate_n to_o the_o dishonour_v and_o debase_v of_o the_o sacrament_n to_o the_o disualew_v of_o the_o infinite_a worth_n and_o price_n of_o christ_n his_o passion_n to_o the_o uphould_v and_o maintain_v of_o a_o stoical_a and_o fatal_a necessity_n in_o all_o thing_n and_o last_o to_o the_o absolute_a denial_n of_o the_o most_o bless_a and_o holy_a trinity_n now_o gentlemen_z all_z if_o you_o want_v a_o protestant_n to_o be_v the_o square_a and_o rule_v of_o protestancy_n i_o be_o content_a in_o this_o your_o penury_n that_o you_o take_v luther_n for_o a_o protestant_n ochinus_n i_o be_o amaze_v to_o here_o of_o these_o point_n and_o i_o will_v not_o believe_v they_o but_o that_o luther_n own_o write_n be_v yet_o extant_a &_o ready_a to_o charge_v he_o with_o they_o neuseru_n i_o condemn_v myself_o michaeas_n of_o my_o former_a rash_a and_o unexamined_a assent_n give_v in_o behalf_n of_o luther_n and_o i_o blame_v my_o own_o hasty_a credulity_n but_o by_o this_o i_o may_v learn_v that_o the_o attendant_n of_o wisdom_n be_v slow_a belief_n but_o m._n doctor_n we_o will_v wish_v you_o to_o ascend_v to_o high_a time_n d._n reynolds_n i_o will_n and_o i_o will_v ascend_v sofe_o and_o by_o small_a degree_n only_o afore_o in_o part_n of_o excuse_n though_o not_o in_o defence_n of_o luther_n error_n i_o must_v put_v you_o in_o mind_n michaeas_n that_o the_o pure_a gold_n oar_n be_v mix_v with_o some_o dress_n the_o fair_a rose_n beset_v with_o sharp_a prick_n and_o diverse_a ancient_a and_o reverend_a father_n have_v their_o oversight_n but_o to_o proceed_v high_o what_o say_v you_o michaeas_n of_o the_o twenty_o year_n first_o before_o luther_n do_v you_o not_o think_v that_o there_o be_v then_o many_o markable_o and_o visible_o know_v who_o profess_v the_o present_a protestant_a faith_n and_o religion_n michaeas_n m._n doctor_n if_o you_o can_v evict_v to_o much_o than_o you_o be_v to_o name_v those_o many_o professor_n if_o not_o many_o some_o few_o at_o least_o some_o one_o or_o other_o if_o you_o can_v i_o now_o urge_v you_o to_o it_o but_o it_o seem_v by_o your_o silence_n be_v thus_o provoke_v you_o can_v name_v any_o one_o protestant_a then_o live_v so_o rare_a in_o those_o day_n though_o so_o late_o be_v the_o bird_n of_o such_o a_o aery_n d._n reynolds_n do_v you_o not_o know_v that_o bucer_n melancthon_n and_o pelican_n be_v profess_a protestant_n even_o before_o luther_n break_v with_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n michaeas_n indeed_o d._n morton_n 42._o in_o extreme_a penury_n and_o for_o main_a relief_n of_o his_o cause_n be_v not_o abash_v to_o name_n the_o say_v three_o man_n for_o protestant_n before_o luther_n revolt_n from_o the_o pope_n whereas_o it_o be_v certain_a that_o all_o these_o be_v original_o catholic_n &_o only_o upon_o luther_n fale_n do_v after_o adjoin_v themselves_o to_o he_o i_o here_o further_o tell_v you_o that_o it_o be_v repugnant_a to_o common_a sense_n that_o any_o protestant_n or_o any_o administration_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n shall_v be_v within_o the_o twenty_o year_n next_o afore_o luther_n apostasy_n for_o i_o can_v term_v it_o no_o better_a and_o yet_o no_o memory_n to_o be_v extant_a thereof_o in_o any_o one_o country_n or_o other_o throughout_o all_o christendom_n especial_o see_v all_o occurrent_n thereabouts_o if_o there_o be_v any_o shall_v have_v be_v perform_v in_o the_o memory_n of_o man_n and_o consequent_o less_o subject_a to_o forgetfulness_n again_o you_o pretend_v you_o can_v exemplify_v in_o protestant_n for_o all_o former_a ancient_a time_n and_o yet_o you_o fail_v even_o in_o this_o last_o age_n belike_o you_o will_v persuade_v we_o that_o our_o knowledge_n of_o these_o matter_n be_v like_a to_o some_o bad_a eye_n which_o see_v thing_n a_o far_o of_o better_a then_o near_o at_o hand_n furthermore_o i_o here_o ask_v the_o reason_n that_o if_o any_o such_o example_n of_o protestancy_n have_v be_v immediate_o before_o luther_n revolt_n why_o at_o least_o do_v not_o luther_n zwinglius_fw-la and_o the_o rest_n that_o adjoin_v themselves_o to_o he_o make_v mention_n of_o some_o such_o protestant_n d._n reynolds_n the_o protestant_a church_n doubtless_o be_v in_o those_o day_n but_o it_o be_v in_o solitude_n and_o herein_o i_o join_v in_o judgement_n with_o d._n whitaker_n thus_o censure_v of_o this_o point_n ante_fw-la 5._o lutheri_fw-la tempora_fw-la latebat_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la in_o solitudine_fw-la before_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n the_o church_n lie_v hide_v in_o the_o desert_n michaeas_n i_o grant_v the_o doctor_n answer_v so_o but_o why_o do_v not_o he_o be_v much_o provoke_v by_o his_o adversary_n thereto_o alleadg_n as_o 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do_v hold_v the_o doctrine_n of_o the_o gospel_n with_o who_o in_o like_a manner_n conspire_v benedictus_n 145._o morgenternensis_n thus_o write_v it_o be_v ridiculous_a to_o say_v that_o any_o before_o the_o time_n of_o luther_n have_v the_o purity_n of_o the_o gospel_n thus_o these_o protestant_n from_o who_o authoritye_n be_v thus_o full_o recite_v i_o gather_v m._n d._n this_o resultancy_n that_o luther_n revolt_n be_v so_o far_o from_o prove_v the_o contemn_v of_o the_o visibility_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n or_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n as_o that_o it_o prove_v a_o manifest_a interruption_n or_o rather_o a_o nullity_n thereof_o it_o be_v so_o full_o confess_v that_o at_o the_o first_o appearance_n of_o this_o miscreant_n of_o saxony_n i_o mean_v of_o luther_n who_o first_o poizn_v the_o duchy_n of_o saxony_n with_o his_o doctrine_n there_o be_v not_o any_o one_o protestant_n much_o less_o
the_o old_a testament_n and_o absolute_o to_o abandon_v and_o disclaim_v from_o the_o new_a and_o therefore_o let_v we_o return_v back_o to_o michaeas_n and_o the_o doctor_n to_o acquaint_v they_o with_o this_o our_o final_a resolution_n ochinus_n michaeas_n and_o m._n doctor_n myself_o and_o neuserus_fw-la have_v in_o the_o secrets_n of_o our_o soul_n pass_v our_o impartial_a censure_n upon_o this_o our_o conference_n and_o we_o both_o acknowledge_v the_o full_a weight_n of_o michaeas_n his_o reason_n in_o disprovall_a of_o your_o instance_n &_o of_o our_o own_o former_a evade_v answer_n and_o our_o conclusion_n be_v that_o we_o both_o assure_v ourselves_o that_o the_o protestant_a church_n have_v never_o any_o visible_a existence_n for_o these_o many_o last_o several_a age_n at_o the_o least_o and_o in_o deed_n i_o confess_v when_o i_o do_v dialogorum_fw-la consider_v how_o christ_n by_o his_o power_n wisdom_n and_o goodness_n have_v establish_v and_o found_v his_o church_n wash_v it_o with_o his_o blood_n and_o enrich_v it_o with_o his_o spirit_n and_o discern_v how_o the_o same_o be_v funditus_fw-la aversa_fw-la utter_o overthrow_v i_o can_v but_o wonder_n and_o be_v desirous_a to_o know_v the_o cause_n i_o find_v there_o have_v be_v pope_n who_o have_v prevayl_v in_o utter_a extirpation_n and_o overthrow_n of_o christ_n his_o church_n here_o you_o have_v my_o ceusure_n accompany_v with_o the_o true_a reason_n thereof_o neuseru_n i_o do_v full_o conspire_v in_o judgement_n with_o ochinus_n move_v thereto_o through_o the_o strength_n and_o validity_n of_o michaeas_n his_o argument_n and_o yet_o i_o hope_v this_o be_v no_o blemish_n either_o to_o you_o m._n doctor_n who_o have_v most_o learned_o handle_v this_o point_n nor_o to_o ourselves_o but_o only_o to_o the_o weakness_n of_o our_o cause_n for_o there_o be_v some_o untruth_n so_o palpable_a and_o iniustifiable_a and_o among_o they_o ring_v the_o suppose_a visibility_n of_o our_o own_o church_n that_o neither_o learning_n art_n or_o the_o bestfiled_a word_n which_o common_o 〈◊〉_d the_o ear_n of_o credulity_n be_v able_a to_o set_v a_o good_a gain_n upon_o they_o therefore_o michaeas_n to_o be_v snort_n in_o beleiung_a that_o the_o protestant_a church_n for_o many_o centurye_n have_v be_v whole_o invisible_a ochinus_n and_o myself_o be_v whole_o you_o michaeas_n i_o much_o rejoice_v thereat_o and_o i_o hope_v notwithstanding_o both_o your_o former_a acerbity_n of_o speech_n that_o now_o upon_o your_o second_o and_o more_o serious_a renew_v of_o this_o point_n the_o acknowledgement_n of_o this_o one_o truth_n will_v be_v a_o good_a disposition_n for_o your_o further_a encertaynment_n of_o the_o catholic_a faith_n since_o a_o dislike_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n imply_v in_o itself_o a_o favourable_a respect_n to_o the_o catholic_a church_n which_o church_n have_v ever_o be_v hovor_v with_o a_o perpetual_a visibility_n ochinus_n stay_v michaeas_n not_o so_o you_o be_v over_o hasty_a your_o praen_n be_v as_o yet_o not_o get_v and_o your_o credulous_a expectation_n overrun_v your_o judgement_n know_v you_o therefore_o first_o that_o touch_v your_o church_n at_o the_o stern_a whereof_o that_o romish_a antichrist_n do_v sit_v we_o hold_v it_o not_o as_o above_o we_o protest_v to_o be_v the_o church_n of_o god_n and_o than_o it_o matâ—reth_v nothing_o with_o we_o whether_o your_o say_v antichristian_a church_n have_v ever_o since_o it_o first_o be_v be_v visible_a or_o no_o for_o though_o we_o teach_v that_o the_o true_a church_n must_v ever_o be_v visible_a yet_o we_o teach_v not_o convertible_o that_o what_o church_n have_v ever_o be_v visible_a the_o same_o be_v the_o true_a church_n furthermore_n michaeas_n and_o m._n doctor_n take_v both_o you_o notize_v that_o the_o confess_v want_n of_o a_o continual_a visibility_n and_o of_o the_o administration_n of_o the_o word_n and_o sacrament_n minister_v to_o we_o a_o great_a suspicion_n whether_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n be_v that_o church_n of_o god_n which_o be_v so_o much_o celebrate_v by_o the_o prophet_n of_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o consequent_o whether_o christ_n be_v the_o true_a messiah_n of_o the_o world_n for_o if_o he_o have_v so_o be_v doubtless_o he_o will_v not_o so_o quick_o have_v repudiate_v his_o intemerate_v and_o chaste_a spouse_n for_o so_o the_o true_a church_n of_o god_n be_v after_o his_o departure_n from_o hence_o neuseru_n what_o ochinusâ—ath_v â—ath_z deliver_v though_o perhaps_o with_o amazement_n to_o you_o both_o i_o do_v here_o justify_v and_o as_o it_o be_v evident_a that_o the_o former_a prophecy_n have_v not_o be_v actual_o perform_v in_o christ_n his_o church_n so_o we_o must_v needs_o rest_v doubtful_a at_o the_o least_o through_o want_n of_o the_o performance_n of_o the_o say_a prediction_n whether_o christ_n be_v that_o redeemer_n of_o the_o world_n which_o be_v promise_v to_o the_o father_n of_o the_o old_a law_n and_o whether_o he_o have_v 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self_o will_v have_v they_o take_v heed_n do_v not_o obliterate_v and_o deface_v those_o fair_a impression_n character_v in_o your_o soul_n at_o your_o baptism_n neither_o now_o disavows_n your_o then_o take_v first_o now_o o_o merciful_a god_n how_o ignorant_a be_v you_o in_o these_o matter_n and_o then_o more_o miserable_o ignorant_a it_o that_o partly_o through_o learning_n you_o be_v become_v ignorant_a do_v you_o think_v to_o honour_v the_o father_n by_o dishonour_v the_o son_n even_o that_o son_n in_o who_o the_o father_n take_v such_o ineffable_a contentment_n 3._o hic_fw-la est_fw-la filius_fw-la meus_fw-la dilectus_fw-la in_fw-la quo_fw-la mihi_fw-la complacui_fw-la certain_a it_o be_v that_o if_o you_o persevere_v in_o judgement_n as_o your_o word_n import_v you_o deny_v he_o for_o your_o saviour_n who_o have_v a_o father_n without_o a_o mother_n a_o mother_n without_o a_o father_n the_o first_o argue_v his_o divinity_n the_o second_o his_o immaculate_a and_o pure_a nativity_n gentes_fw-la quod_fw-la de_fw-la deo_fw-la profectum_fw-la est_fw-la 〈…〉_z eus_fw-la est_fw-la &_o dei_fw-la filius_fw-la &_o vnus_fw-la ambo_fw-la you_o deny_v he_o who_o body_n be_v frame_v of_o such_o a_o admirable_a and_o delicate_a constitution_n and_o temperature_n as_o that_o the_o earth_n do_v then_o contrary_a to_o it_o accustom_a manner_n even_o power_n it_o influence_n upon_o heaven_n to_o be_v shorâ—_n you_o deny_v he_o who_o give_v 2._o himself_o 〈◊〉_d redemption_n for_o all_o who_o taste_v 2._o death_n for_o all_o who_o 1._o take_v away_o the_o sin_n of_o the_o world_n and_o final_o who_o be_v saviour_n 4._o of_o the_o world_n and_o reconciliation_n 2._o for_o our_o sin_n in_o the_o time_n of_o who_o passion_n death_n do_v even_o â—eviâ—e_n and_o eclipse_n do_v enlighten_v lux_fw-la 1._o in_o tenebris_fw-la lucet_fw-la &_o tenebrae_fw-la eum_fw-la non_fw-la comprehenderunt_fw-la but_o why_o labour_n i_o to_o celebrate_v his_o birth_n who_o be_v from_o all_o eternity_n or_o to_o perform_v his_o exequy_n who_o can_v die_v 6._o mors_fw-la illi_fw-la ultrà _fw-la non_fw-la dominabitur_fw-la and_o by_o you_o assure_v that_o who_o contemn_v christ_n the_o redeemer_n of_o all_o flesh_n must_v needs_o contemn_v god_n the_o author_n of_o all_o flesh_n and_o where_o you_o call_v the_o pope_n that_o romish_a antichrist_n see_v how_o malice_n seel_v up_o the_o eye_n of_o your_o judgement_n you_o maintain_v be_v seem_v that_o the_o true_a christ_n and_o messiah_n be_v not_o yet_o come_v how_o can_v the_o pope_n then_o by_o your_o doctrine_n be_v antichrist_n since_o antichrist_n you_o know_v be_v to_o come_v after_o not_o before_o the_o true_a christ_n again_o for_o prouffe_n that_o the_o pope_n be_v antichrist_n you_o no_o doubt_n will_v make_v show_n to_o rest_v upon_o the_o wrest_a authority_n of_o the_o new_a 17_o testament_n and_o shall_v not_o then_o the_o say_v new_a testament_n be_v of_o the_o like_a authority_n with_o you_o to_o prove_v that_o christ_n be_v the_o true_a messiah_n ochinus_n tush_o michaeas_n this_o be_v but_o
impudent_a assertion_n and_o first_o touch_v dante_n be_v he_o thus_o write_v of_o s._n peter_n in_o his_o italian_a verse_n o_fw-fr luce_fw-fr paâ—ad_n eterne_a del_o grand_fw-mi viro_fw-la a_fw-la cui_fw-la nostro_fw-la signior_n lascio_fw-la le_fw-fr chiavi_fw-la ch'_fw-it ei_fw-la portò_fw-la giùda_fw-la questo_fw-la gaudio_fw-la mirâ—_n joy_n in_o like_o sort_n touch_v rome_n itself_o he_o thus_o discourse_v non_fw-fr inferno_fw-la pair_v indeg_fw-mi no_o all_o huomo_fw-la d'intelletto_fw-it vhe_fw-it ei_fw-la su_fw-es de_fw-es l'alma_fw-la roma_fw-it &_o de_fw-fr svo_fw-la impero_fw-la nell_n '_o empirco_fw-mi ciel_fw-fr '_o per_fw-la padre_n eletto_fw-it la_fw-fr quale_fw-la el_fw-es quale_fw-la à _fw-fr voler_fw-fr direilvero_fw-la fur_n stabilite_fw-la per_fw-la lo_o loco_fw-la sancto_fw-la r_o '_o fiede_n ill_a successor_n del_fw-it maggior_fw-it piero._n in_o which_o verse_n rome_n be_v call_v a_o reverend_a city_n a_o holy_a place_n fortify_v and_o strenghtn_v even_o from_o heaven_n and_o final_o the_o seat_n of_o peter_n again_o dante_n be_v be_v much_o advers_a against_o pope_n nicolas_n the_o three_o who_o be_v dead_a dante_n be_v notwithstanding_o thus_o honour_v with_o his_o verse_n et_fw-la inferno_fw-la se_fw-la non_fw-fr fusse_fw-fr ch'_fw-it aucor_fw-mi le_fw-fr i_o vieta_fw-la i_o ariverentia_fw-la dell_fw-it sum_n chiani_n cheiutenesti_fw-la vella_fw-la vita_fw-la lieta_fw-la jover_n ei_fw-la parcle_n anchor_n più_fw-fr grant_v in_o which_o word_n dante_n be_v confess_v plain_o that_o the_o reverence_n which_o he_o do_v bear_v to_o this_o pope_n in_o regard_n that_o he_o receive_v the_o key_n of_o the_o church_n mean_v supreme_a authority_n in_o christ_n church_n be_v the_o cause_n why_o he_o do_v forbear_v to_o write_v more_o sharp_o against_o he_o final_o to_o omit_v many_o other_o like_o passage_n dante_n be_v say_v that_o boniface_n the_o eight_o ne_fw-la inferno_fw-la summo_fw-la offitio_fw-la ne_fw-la ordini_fw-la sacri_fw-la guardò_fw-la in_o se_fw-la in_o which_o verse_n he_o acknowlede_v that_o supreme_a authority_n and_o holy_a order_n do_v resyde_v in_o boniface_n who_o manner_n be_v otherwise_o displese_v to_o dante_n be_v in_o this_o next_o place_n i_o will_v come_v to_o petrarch_n who_o thus_o write_v in_o acknowledge_v the_o power_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n cardinalem_fw-la quis_fw-la quaeso_fw-la non_fw-la stupeat_fw-la simulque_fw-la non_fw-la gaudeat_fw-la si_fw-la amicus_fw-la sit_fw-la vicario_n jesv_n christi_n and_o further_o romano_n medicum_fw-la pontifici_fw-la omnes_fw-la qui_fw-la christiano_n nomine_fw-la glortamur_fw-la non_fw-la modo_fw-la consilium_fw-la sed_fw-la obsâ—quium_fw-la insuper_fw-la &_o obedientiam_fw-la debemus_fw-la all_o we_o who_o glory_n in_o the_o name_n of_o christian_n do_v owe_v not_o only_a counsel_n but_o duty_n and_o obedience_n to_o the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n now_o for_o great_a evidency_n of_o this_o point_n i_o will_v descend_v to_o the_o particular_a praise_n give_v by_o petrarch_n to_o particular_a pope_n in_o his_o italian_a book_n write_v of_o the_o life_n of_o pope_n we_o there_o then_o find_v that_o of_o pope_n vrbanus_n 5._o he_o thus_o write_v furio_n nelle_fw-it sacre_n scripture_n dottissimo_fw-la &_o santament_fw-it visse_fw-la vrbanus_n be_v most_o learned_a in_o the_o holy_a scripture_n and_o livod_v most_o sanct_o of_o clemens_n 6._o he_o thus_o record_v furio_n &_o per_fw-mi nome_fw-mi &_o per_fw-la fatti_fw-la di_fw-it molte_fw-it virtù_fw-fr pieno_fw-la clement_n be_v both_o for_o his_o name_n and_o for_o his_o deed_n replenish_v with_o much_o virtue_n of_o benedict_n 12._o these_o be_v his_o word_n beneditto_n fatto_fw-it papa_n reformò_fw-la l'ordine_fw-la di_fw-it s._n benedetto_n etc._n etc._n era_fw-la feruido_fw-la nella_fw-it fide_fw-la &_o nelle_fw-it buone_fw-it operezelatore_fw-la benedict_n be_v create_v pope_n do_v reform_v the_o order_n of_o s._n benedict_n etc._n etc._n he_o be_v feruerous_a in_o the_o faith_n and_o zealous_a in_o good_a work_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v short_a of_o john_n 22._o he_o thus_o say_v costuifu_n ottimo_fw-la &_o glorioso_fw-it pastore_n fece_v molti_fw-la bein_z &_o hereticipe_a zelo_fw-la della_fw-it fide_fw-la condamno_fw-la this_o man_n be_v a_o very_a good_a and_o glorious_a pastor_n he_o do_v many_o good_a deed_n and_o condemn_v heretic_n out_o of_o his_o zeal_n to_o the_o faith_n and_o now_o i_o refâ—r_v to_o any_o in_o different_a judgement_n whether_o these_o two_o italian_a poëte_n dante_n be_v and_o petrarch_n do_v think_v the_o pope_n of_o rome_n to_o be_v antichrist_n or_o no_o as_o our_o 81._o pamphleter_n seem_v to_o urge_v â—hey_n do_v and_o whether_o the_o former_a praise_n can_v be_v true_o apply_v to_o anthichrist_n &_o the_o whoare_n of_o babylon_n â—o_o evident_a it_o be_v that_o what_o the_o foresay_a poent_n do_v satirical_o wryce_o be_v write_v only_o against_o some_o disorder_n in_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o against_o the_o presume_a fault_n of_o some_o particular_a pope_n but_o never_o against_o their_o supreme_a dignity_n in_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o as_o touch_v the_o former_a pope_n by_o petrarch_n so_o commend_v we_o be_v to_o remember_v that_o his_o praise_n deliver_v of_o they_o where_o write_v after_o the_o death_n of_o the_o say_a pope_n and_o therefore_o his_o word_n can_v not_o be_v censure_v to_o proceed_v from_o adulation_n and_o flattery_n but_o according_a to_o his_o own_o true_a and_o secret_a judgement_n pass_v upon_o those_o pope_n in_o the_o same_o manner_n for_o their_o like_a inveigh_v against_o the_o fullness_n of_o the_o pope_n power_n and_o jurisdiction_n he_o allege_v certain_a obscure_a man_n to_o wit_n dulemus_n hayabalus_n joannes_n biraensis_n joannes_n de_fw-fr rupe_n scissa_fw-la three_o religious_a man_n who_o live_v and_o die_v in_o respect_n of_o all_o other_o point_n in_o the_o roman_a church_n and_o yet_o touch_v joannes_n de_fw-fr rupe_n scissa_fw-la both_o this_o author_n and_o the_o author_n of_o catalogus_fw-la testium_fw-la veritatis_fw-la from_o who_o this_o man_n take_v it_o be_v deceive_v if_o we_o may_v believe_v fox_n scissa_fw-la who_o thus_o wryte_n of_o he_o joannes_n de_fw-fr rupe_n scissa_fw-la live_v in_o the_o year_n 1340._o who_o for_o his_o rebuke_v of_o the_o spiritual_o for_o their_o great_a enormitte_v and_o neglect_v their_o office_n be_v cast_v into_o prison_n our_o pamphleter_n after_o produce_v gerson_n for_o a_o protestant_n of_o who_o he_o thus_o say_v gerson_n 81._o see_v in_o his_o age_n many_o horrible_a abuse_n of_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o in_o his_o write_n speak_v liberal_o of_o it_o be_v not_o this_o a_o learned_a prouf_fw-fr for_o gerson_n be_v protestant_a in_o all_o point_n of_o protestancy_n after_o all_o the_o former_a â—nstances_n the_o pamphleter_n even_o for_o want_n of_o other_o matter_n return_v back_o again_o to_o the_o waldenses_n 82._o or_o albigenses_n iterate_v with_o a_o tedious_a prolixity_n his_o former_a discourse_n concern_v they_o and_o this_o in_o many_o leaf_n whereby_o he_o show_v the_o extreme_a mendicity_fw-la of_o his_o cause_n and_o that_o he_o labour_v with_o all_o art_n possible_a to_o draw_v out_o this_o his_o treatise_n as_o be_v above_o say_v into_o some_o reasonable_a number_n of_o sheet_n but_o touch_v the_o waldenses_n i_o refer_v the_o readeâ—_n as_o afore_o i_o will_v to_o the_o particular_a passage_n of_o waldo_n in_o the_o former_a dialogue_n his_o former_a extravagancye_n of_o discourse_n be_v end_v he_o be_v not_o ashamed_a to_o challenge_v s._n bernard_n 91._o for_o a_o protestant_n of_o who_o he_o thus_o write_v before_o our_o ascend_v thus_o high_a we_o may_v tell_v you_o of_o s._n bernard_n who_o all_o though_o it_o be_v likely_a at_o the_o first_o dash_n you_o will_v challenge_v as_o your_o own_o yet_o when_o you_o have_v well_o advize_v of_o he_o you_o may_v let_v he_o go_v again_o o_o perfrictam_fw-la frontâ—m_fw-la and_o wonderful_a impudence_n for_o who_o be_v so_o ignorant_a or_o so_o bold_a that_o will_v not_o confess_v s._n bernard_n to_o have_v be_v a_o roman_a catholic_a in_o all_o point_n he_o be_v a_o religious_a man_n and_o abbot_n of_o clairevaux_n and_o author_n of_o many_o monasterye_n in_o flanders_n and_o france_n as_o o_o siander_v 309._o the_o protestant_n confess_v he_o also_o be_v pry_a and_o say_v mass_n to_o his_o die_a day_n as_o all_o writer_n of_o he_o do_v testify_v a_o point_n so_o evident_a that_o for_o his_o be_v a_o great_a and_o eminent_a member_n of_o our_o catholic_a church_n the_o centurist_n all_o protestant_n thus_o censure_v he_o bernardâ—â—s_fw-la 1638._o coluit_fw-la deum_fw-la maozim_n ad_fw-la novissimum_fw-la aquavitae_fw-la suae_fw-la articulum_fw-la and_o further_o they_o say_v of_o he_o bernardus_n fuit_fw-la acerrimus_fw-la propugnator_fw-la sedis_fw-la antichristi_fw-la bernard_n be_v a_o earnest_a defendor_n of_o the_o seaâ—e_n of_o antichrist_n here_o now_o i_o refer_v to_o the_o candid_a and_o upright_o reader_n what_o impudence_n it_o be_v in_o this_o man_n to_o challenge_v bernard_n for_o a_o member_n of_o the_o protestant_a church_n but_o here_o touch_v s._n bernard_n i_o can_v but_o abserue_v
of_o knowledge_n the_o saint_n do_v know_v our_o prayer_n or_o last_o because_o we_o offer_v injury_n to_o god_n and_o christ_n if_o we_o pray_v to_o any_o other_o then_o to_o he_o alone_o but_o this_o be_v the_o least_o of_o all_o true_a see_v by_o the_o same_o reason_n it_o shall_v not_o be_v lawful_a for_o we_o to_o pray_v to_o the_o live_n that_o they_o will_v pray_v for_o we_o and_o then_o consequent_o saint_n paul_n shall_v have_v be_v most_o injurious_a to_o god_n and_o christ_n in_o pray_v to_o the_o roman_n the_o ephesian_n the_o thessalonian_n the_o colossian_n and_o the_o hebrew_n to_o pray_v for_o he_o to_o god_n therefore_o as_o it_o be_v no_o injury_n but_o a_o honour_n to_o king_n when_o their_o friend_n be_v honour_v and_o ambassador_n be_v send_v to_o they_o even_o so_o here_o there_o be_v no_o injury_n do_v to_o god_n but_o honour_n when_o the_o saint_n of_o god_n be_v honour_v by_o pray_v unto_o they_o not_o as_o to_o god_n but_o as_o to_o the_o friend_n of_o god_n since_o otherwise_o it_o will_v follow_v that_o he_o shall_v commit_v deipara_n a_o injury_n to_o god_n as_o be_v above_o say_v who_o shall_v desire_v &_o entreat_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n this_o argument_n be_v unanswerable_a and_o the_o rather_o since_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n be_v member_n of_o the_o same_o church_n of_o which_o the_o live_a be_v they_o also_o whole_o rely_v upon_o the_o same_o intercession_n of_o christ_n with_o the_o live_n for_o what_o they_o desire_v for_o we_o that_o they_o desire_v of_o god_n through_o the_o merit_n of_o our_o saviour_n christ_n this_o doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n be_v further_o prove_v from_o several_a ancient_a counsel_n who_o place_n for_o great_a brevity_n i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o as_o to_o the_o epistle_n of_o the_o bishop_n of_o europe_n write_v to_o leo_n the_o emperor_n which_o epistle_n be_v adjoin_v to_o the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n the_o council_n of_o chalcedon_n 11._o itself_o the_o six_o 7._o general_a council_n the_o seven_o 6._o general_a council_n beside_o diverse_a other_o that_o the_o ancient_a father_n of_o the_o primative_a church_n believe_v &_o practise_v this_o doctrine_n of_o pray_v to_o saint_n be_v evident_a from_o the_o reference_n herein_o the_o margin_n see_v then_o hereof_o dionysius_n hierarch_n areopagita_n ireneus_fw-la medium_n eusebius_n 7_o athanasius_n h_z basill_n martyr_n chrysostome_n populum_fw-la gregory_n theodorun_v nyssene_n hilary_n 129._o ambrose_n med_a jerome_n paulae_fw-la austin_n johannem_fw-la and_o other_o this_o point_n of_o the_o father_n judgement_n and_o practice_n herein_o be_v so_o manifest_a as_o that_o we_o find_v it_o to_o be_v thus_o confess_v of_o they_o by_o the_o learned_a protestant_n m._n fulke_n thus_o say_v bristol_n i_o confess_v that_o ambrose_n austin_n and_o jerome_n do_v hold_v invocation_n of_o saint_n to_o be_v lawful_a the_o say_v d._n fulke_n do_v further_a thus_o write_v in_o 1._o nazianzen_n basill_n and_o chrysostome_n be_v mention_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o yet_o more_o full_o the_o same_o d._n thus_o confess_v many_o supra_fw-la of_o the_o ancient_a father_n do_v hold_v that_o the_o saint_n depart_v do_v pray_v for_o us._n in_o which_o general_a condemnation_n of_o the_o father_n herein_o d._n whitguift_n the_o archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n thus_o conspire_v with_o the_o foresay_a d._n fulke_n 472._o almost_o all_o the_o bishop_n and_o writer_n of_o the_o greek_a church_n and_o latin_a also_o for_o the_o most_o part_n be_v spot_v with_o the_o doctrine_n of_o invocation_n of_o saint_n and_o such_o like_a point_n to_o conclude_v d._n covell_n thus_o 〈…〉_z p_v with_o the_o former_a protestant_n say_v 120._o diverse_a both_o of_o the_o greek_a and_o latin_a church_n be_v spot_v with_o the_o error_n about_o the_o invocation_n of_o saint_n now_o that_o the_o protestant_n do_v not_o only_o confess_v the_o ancient_a father_n judgement_n hearein_o but_o that_o also_o diverse_a of_o they_o do_v believe_v the_o doctrine_n 〈◊〉_d self_n to_o be_v true_a be_v no_o less_o clear_a for_o we_o find_v luther_n himself_o thus_o to_o write_v de_n articul_fw-la intercessione_n divorum_fw-la cum_fw-la tota_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la christiana_n sentio_fw-la sanctos_fw-la a_o nobis_fw-la honâ—randos_fw-mi esse_fw-la &_o invocandoâ—_n with_o who_o agree_v maximo_fw-la oâ—colampadius_n 1312._o latimer_n and_o diverse_a 4._o protestant_n in_o polonia_n now_o i_o will_v end_v this_o point_n in_o set_v the_o judgement_n of_o learned_a 16._o father_n and_o catholic_n touch_v the_o manner_n how_o saint_n do_v hear_v out_o prayer_n which_o be_v that_o saint_n as_o be_v in_o heaven_n even_o from_o their_o first_o beginning_n of_o their_o beatitude_n and_o happiness_n do_v see_v all_o thing_n in_o god_n as_o in_o a_o clear_a glass_n which_o belong_v unto_o they_o any_o way_n according_a to_o that_o quid_fw-la supra_fw-la est_fw-la quod_fw-la ibi_fw-la nâ—sciunt_fw-la qui_fw-la scie_a tem_fw-la omâ—â—a_fw-la sciunt_fw-la and_o therefore_o they_o see_v and_o hear_v our_o prayer_n direct_v unto_o they_o and_o hence_o it_o be_v that_o the_o holy_a soul_n before_o our_o saviour_n incarnation_n and_o ascension_n be_v in_o lyâ—bus_n patrum_fw-la be_v not_o pray_v unto_o because_o they_o then_o not_o be_v in_o heaven_n can_v not_o hear_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_v make_v to_o they_o and_o therefore_o no_o marvel_n if_o neither_o in_o the_o old_a testament_n nor_o in_o the_o new_a we_o find_v no_o express_a example_n of_o prayer_n make_v to_o saint_n to_o the_o former_a manner_n how_o saint_n do_v see_v the_o action_n of_o the_o live_n and_o do_v hear_v their_o prayer_n i_o may_v adjoine_v a_o other_o manner_n of_o hear_v they_o allow_v &_o teach_v by_o s._n 15._o austin_n &_o other_o gorg._n father_n which_o be_v that_o god_n out_o of_o his_o special_a favour_n and_o love_n to_o his_o saint_n do_v open_a and_o reveal_v to_o they_o the_o particular_a state_n and_o prayer_n of_o their_o friend_n yet_o live_v in_o the_o world_n now_o how_o agreeable_a it_o be_v to_o all_o force_n of_o reason_n that_o saint_n in_o heaven_n shall_v know_v the_o affair_n of_o their_o live_a friend_n be_v several_a way_n prove_v first_o because_o the_o 15._o angel_n in_o heaven_n rejoice_v at_o the_o conversion_n of_o a_o sinneâ—_n therefore_o the_o angel_n know_v the_o particular_a state_n of_o live_a men._n but_o if_o the_o angel_n do_v then_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o saint_n do_v see_v so_o far_o as_o concern_v this_o point_n there_o be_v no_o difference_n between_o the_o angel_n and_o the_o saint_n second_o the_o nature_n of_o their_o beatitude_n require_v such_o knowledge_n of_o the_o affair_n of_o their_o live_a friend_n for_o see_v their_o happiness_n be_v a_o main_n ocean_n of_o all_o joy_n no_o kind_n of_o happiness_n be_v to_o they_o want_v which_o be_v requisite_a for_o they_o to_o have_v therefore_o it_o follow_v that_o for_o their_o greature_n measure_n of_o their_o felicity_n they_o be_v to_o have_v notice_n of_o the_o misery_n want_n &_o prayer_n of_o their_o live_a friend_n and_o this_o the_o rather_o see_v nature_n be_v not_o abolish_v but_o beter_v and_o perfect_v by_o grace_n from_o whence_o we_o may_v gather_v that_o the_o saint_n in_o heaven_n do_v not_o abandon_v &_o reject_v the_o care_n &_o state_n of_o their_o live_a friend_n but_o do_v still_o retain_v though_o with_o great_a perfection_n their_o former_a natural_a desire_n to_o know_v &_o relieve_v the_o state_n of_o their_o say_a friend_n three_o this_o privilege_n of_o saint_n know_v the_o state_n and_o hearn_v the_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n best_o sort_v to_o the_o nobility_n and_o worth_n of_o their_o beatifical_a and_o happy_a vision_n of_o god_n for_o if_o god_n have_v honour_v diverse_a of_o his_o friend_n while_o they_o live_v in_o this_o world_n with_o the_o guyft_n of_o prophecy_n as_o he_o do_v daniel_n ezechiel_n isaiah_n david_n and_o many_o other_o wheareby_o diverse_a of_o they_o reveal_v many_o thing_n to_o come_v mere_o depend_v of_o man_n freewill_n and_o therefore_o not_o forseen_v in_o their_o cause_n as_o also_o do_v tell_v at_o the_o very_a time_n they_o be_v do_v thing_n do_v in_o place_n far_o distant_a and_o remote_a from_o they_o how_o can_v it_o then_o otherwise_o be_v but_o that_o his_o divine_a majesty_n be_v most_o willing_a to_o communicate_v unto_o his_o saint_n the_o state_n and_o prayer_n of_o the_o live_n to_o the_o force_n of_o which_o reason_n s._n austin_n subscribe_v in_o these_o word_n if_o the_o prophet_n elizaeus_n absent_a in_o body_n 29._o do_v see_v the_o bribe_n his_o servant_n geizi_n do_v take_v of_o nâ—man_a syrus_n etc._n etc._n how_o much_o more_o in_o that_o spiritual_a body_n shall_v saint_n see_v all_o thing_n etc._n etc._n when_o god_n shall_v be_v all_o in_o all_o unto_o we_o last_o the_o damn_a spirit_n and_o
i_o be_o make_v partaker_n of_o all_o that_o fear_v the_o lord_n now_o this_o former_a doctrine_n touch_v the_o suffering_n of_o one_o to_o be_v apply_v to_o a_o other_o be_v the_o undoubted_a true_a and_o ancient_a doctrine_n of_o christ_n church_n upon_o which_o ground_n indulgance_n be_v build_v it_o from_o hence_o appear_v how_o idle_o and_o impertinent_o our_o adversaries_n do_v urge_v some_o text_n of_o scripture_n to_o the_o contrary_a as_o where_o it_o be_v say_v the_o 18._o soul_n which_o sin_v â—â—en_o that_o shall_v die_v and_o again_o 6._o every_o one_o shall_v be_v be_v his_o own_o burden_n and_o more_o no_o 49._o man_n câ—â—_n redeem_v his_o brother_n or_o give_v a_o price_n to_o god_n for_o he_o all_o which_o text_n be_v speak_v of_o the_o state_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n and_o therefore_o impertinent_o allege_v in_o which_o state_n a_o man_n deparâ—eth_v out_o of_o this_o world_n but_o they_o be_v not_o speak_v of_o temporal_a punishment_n only_o which_o be_v reserve_v after_o the_o guilt_n of_o eternal_a damnation_n be_v remit_v which_o be_v the_o point_n here_o controvert_v if_o it_o be_v urge_v against_o this_o doctrine_n that_o the_o action_n of_o the_o saint_n decease_a be_v merit_n to_o themselves_o and_o therefore_o can_v be_v apply_v as_o satisfaction_n for_o other_o â—o_o this_o i_o answer_v that_o one_o and_o the_o same_o action_n may_v be_v in_o a_o different_a respect_n both_o meritorious_a and_o satisfactory_a meritorious_a as_o it_o proceed_v from_o supernatural_a grace_n satisfactory_a as_o it_o be_v perform_v with_o pain_n labour_n and_o difficulty_n according_a hereto_o we_o read_v in_o scripture_n that_o almeâ—deeds_n do_v both_o merit_n and_o satisfy_v for_o sin_n for_o thus_o we_o read_v 9_o whosoever_o shall_v give_v in_o my_o name_n a_o cup_n of_o cold_a water_n etc._n etc._n he_o shall_v not_o loose_v his_o reward_n here_o be_v merit_n we_o also_o read_v of_o almeâ—deeds_n 4._o in_o this_o sort_n almesdeed_n deliver_v we_o from_o sin_n and_o death_n and_o again_o as_o 3._o water_n quench_v the_o fire_n so_o almesdeed_n extinguish_v sin_n here_o be_v satisfaction_n here_o also_o we_o be_v to_o conceaâ—e_v that_o though_o the_o same_o action_n may_v be_v meritorious_a and_o satisfactory_a yet_o a_o man_n merit_v only_o for_o himself_o &_o not_o for_o other_o but_o satisfy_v he_o may_v both_o for_o himself_o and_o for_o other_o only_a christ_n our_o saviour_n have_v merit_v both_o grace_n and_o glory_n for_o we_o all_o and_o also_o have_v satisfy_v for_o the_o sin_n of_o all_o man_n yet_o the_o worth_n and_o price_n of_o his_o merit_n we_o can_v apply_v only_o to_o ourselves_o by_o our_o meritorious_a action_n and_o not_o derive_v it_o to_o any_o other_o but_o the_o benefit_n of_o his_o satisfaction_n we_o may_v derive_v by_o our_o own_o satisfactory_a work_n not_o only_o to_o ourselves_o but_o also_o to_o other_o where_o it_o be_v vulgar_o object_v that_o juduigence_n be_v oftentimes_o grant_v for_o more_o thousand_o of_o year_n than_o the_o world_n or_o purgatory_n be_v like_a to_o endure_v and_o continue_v and_o that_o therefore_o they_o be_v ridiculous_o and_o foolish_o grant_v i_o answer_v this_o argument_n proceed_v from_o mere_a ignorance_n for_o here_o the_o year_n be_v not_o to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o year_n or_o day_n of_o penal_a satisfaction_n which_o be_v to_o be_v impose_v in_o purgatory_n but_o of_o the_o number_n of_o year_n which_o be_v more_o or_o less_o in_o number_n proportion_v according_a to_o the_o diversity_n of_o the_o crime_n by_o the_o canonical_a decree_n of_o the_o church_n and_o here_o we_o be_v further_a to_o know_v that_o god_n in_o the_o space_n and_o compass_v of_o a_o hour_n or_o some_o such_o short_a time_n may_v by_o the_o bitter_a pain_n of_o purgatory_n expiate_v that_o which_o in_o this_o life_n a_o remiss_a and_o slow_a penance_n or_o satisfaction_n will_v scarce_o redeem_v in_o the_o compass_n of_o many_o year_n now_o touch_v the_o antiquity_n of_o indulgence_n we_o find_v they_o practise_v by_o s._n paul_n who_o thus_o say_v of_o the_o incestuous_a person_n who_o 2._o you_o have_v pardon_v i_o also_o pardon_v for_o that_o which_o i_o have_v pardon_v in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n for_o you_o i_o have_v do_v it_o that_o we_o be_v not_o circumvent_v of_o satan_n here_o now_o we_o be_v to_o remember_v that_o the_o incestuous_a person_n to_o who_o the_o indulgence_n be_v here_o give_v be_v in_o great_a contrition_n and_o sorrow_n for_o his_o sin_n be_v excommunicate_v by_o s._n paul_n who_o at_o the_o request_n of_o the_o corinthian_n do_v release_v he_o of_o his_o excommunication_n for_o fear_v he_o may_v fall_n into_o despair_n now_o in_o this_o example_n we_o find_v all_o thing_n necessary_a to_o a_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n as_o first_o the_o authority_n of_o the_o grant_a of_o the_o pardon_n to_o wit_n s._n paul_n who_o affirm_v to_o do_v it_o in_o the_o person_n of_o christ_n second_o state_n of_o grace_n in_o the_o receiver_n of_o the_o indulgence_n as_o appear_v by_o his_o contrition_n and_o sorrow_n for_o his_o sin_n commit_v three_o the_o temporal_a punishment_n remit_v to_o wit_n his_o excommunication_n last_o a_o just_a &_o sufficient_a cause_n for_o give_v this_o indulgence_n or_o pardon_n which_o be_v lest_o the_o offendor_n shall_v fall_n into_o despair_n or_o be_v overplunge_v in_o sorrow_n after_o the_o apostle_n time_n we_o find_v that_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o primative_a church_n give_v pardon_n and_o indulgence_n to_o many_o and_o this_o be_v do_v by_o the_o mediation_n of_o confessor_n or_o design_v martyr_n as_o be_v witness_v by_o martyr_n tertullian_n &_o lapsis_fw-la cyprian_n we_o also_o find_v that_o pardon_n and_o indulgence_n be_v give_v by_o sundry_a â—â—opes_n in_o other_o age_n as_o by_o surium_n leo_n the_o three_o by_o 3._o gregory_n the_o great_a by_o 1._o vrban_a the_o second_o by_o chronic._n innocentius_n the_o three_o by_o paschalis_n the_o first_o and_o by_o other_o all_o which_o dispense_v and_o distribute_v out_o of_o the_o common_a treasure_n of_o the_o church_n beside_o the_o former_a authoritye_n the_o doctrine_n and_o use_n of_o indulgencs_n be_v warrant_v by_o counsel_n both_o general_n and_o provincial_n to_o wit_n the_o first_o council_n of_o 11._o nice_a the_o council_n of_o 9_o ancyran_n the_o council_n of_o leodice_n 2._o the_o council_n of_o claramontane_n the_o council_n of_o lateran_n of_o vienna_n of_o constance_n and_o of_o trente_n as_o appear_v in_o the_o counsel_n themselves_o now_o if_o the_o former_a ancient_a pope_n and_o father_n as_o also_o these_o allege_a counsel_n shall_v err_v in_o the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n than_o two_o main_n absurditye_n shall_v follow_v first_o that_o the_o primative_a church_n shall_v most_o foul_o err_v in_o a_o dogmatic_a point_n of_o faith_n contrary_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o the_o more_o sober_a &_o leared_a protestant_n among_o who_o i_o will_v for_o brevity_n hear_v set_v down_o the_o judgement_n only_o of_o kempnitius_n touch_v the_o primative_a church_n who_o thus_o say_v 74._o i_o dowbt_v not_o but_o the_o primative_a church_n receive_v from_o the_o apostle_n and_o apostolical_a man_n not_o only_o the_o text_n of_o scripture_n but_o also_o the_o native_a sense_n thereof_o but_o this_o the_o primative_a church_n can_v not_o receive_v if_o it_o whole_o err_v in_o so_o main_n a_o matter_n of_o christian_a doctrine_n as_o the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n be_v the_o second_o absurdity_n be_v that_o in_o regard_n of_o the_o say_a father_n and_o general_n counsel_n defend_v the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n the_o whole_a church_n of_o christ_n suppose_v the_o doctrine_n to_o be_v faâ—se_n shall_v err_v in_o matter_n of_o faith_n contrary_a to_o the_o promise_n of_o christ_n who_o have_v promise_v ever_o to_o be_v with_o his_o church_n till_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n which_o say_v church_n of_o he_o be_v style_v by_o the_o apostle_n for_o it_o great_a certainty_n of_o faith_n 3._o columna_fw-la &_o firmamentum_fw-la veritatis_fw-la and_o therefore_o incompatible_a with_o error_n and_o thus_o much_o concern_v the_o doctrine_n of_o indulgence_n end_v this_o discourse_n with_o the_o confession_n of_o kempnitius_n touch_v the_o antiquity_n thereof_o who_o plain_o acknowledge_v and_o say_v 329._o that_o the_o begin_n of_o indulgence_n be_v not_o clear_o enough_o set_v down_o in_o history_n the_o catholic_a doctrine_n touch_v communion_n under_o one_o kind_a defend_v the_o true_a state_n of_o this_o question_n be_v not_o whether_o christ_n do_v institute_v the_o eucharist_n under_o both_o kind_n or_o whether_o himself_o and_o the_o apostle_n do_v at_o the_o first_o institution_n receive_v it_o under_o both_o kind_n or_o whether_o the_o apostle_n and_o the_o father_n afterward_o at_o sundry_a time_n do_v minister_v it_o to_o the_o laity_n under_o both_o kind_n for_o all_o this_o