if I were conâ—icted might be punished or else they might haue the rewarde that molesters of the preachers of the Gospell do deserue he graunted it me and appoynted a day which being come rather than I whome hee thought not to fauor his authoritie should haue anie helpe at his handes hee made mee a sleeueles aunswere and sent mee away Thus are Byshoppes coutented to bee bawdes vnto al kinde of sinners rather than they will any way seeme to further the ministerie of those whome they fauour not and euen thus doe you for your hatred vnto my person maketh you to stand with that monstrous vsurer but take hecde of it for God will not be mocked he seeth your dealing and will iudge you accordingly howsoeuer you can pretend the contrarie to the world Diotreph As for mine owne part I passe not what you speake but let me aske you one question concerning these holie fathers and that is this what reason is there that they should do anie good in any respect vnto any of you seeing they knowe you to bee professed foes vnto their dignities Paule Because they taking themselues to be the fathers of the Church shoulde haue a regarde to the good cause and defend it without respect of persons Diotreph No sir I see no reason in that for aboue all things they must look to theÌ„selues without whose authoritie the Gospell would be troden vnder foote and therfore they may defend no cause nor person further than may stand with their owne safety Paule Suppose that were lawfull what hinderance is this to themselues to see theÌ„ that bee common and knowne drunkards vsurers adulterers and profane persons punished for that they are railers at me for teaching the ' trueth of religion and reproouing sharply their godlesse conuersation Diotreph Oh you are a simple man it is great hinderance for they can do nothing in defence of you though it be in matters wherein you and they doe agree but it tendeth to the derogation of their own estimation such is the contrarietie betwixt your building and theirs Paule By that meanes shall we be so wearied with aduersaries that we shal neuer haue any hope to doe good but euen to be constrained to giue ouer the ministerie Diotreph I woulde I might see that once come to passe we haue laboured for it hitherto and neuer could attaine vnto it neyther will the Church euer bee in quiet vntill you all be turned out Paule So thought the Sodomites that they should neuer be wel so long as Lot was in their citie but when he was gone fire from heauen consumed them but I pray you tell me if all were turned out how should the people be taught for it is euident that none else almost maketh a conscience of his duty that way Diotreph You think teaching wold faile without you No sir teaching woulde bee more regarded than it is Paule Shew me how that can be Diotreph Wee woulde haue none to preach aboue once a moneth and then shoulde he doe it profoundly and confirme his matter out of the fathers and humane writers substantially whereas you taking vpon you to preach three or foure times a week must not onely of necessitie handle your matters verie rawlie but also breede loathsomnesse in the people Paule Surely my hart waxeth cold and my flesh trembleth to heare you speake so monstrously dooth preaching consist in quoting of doctors and alleadging of Poets and Philosophers in what part of his commission hath a minister war rant so to do You finde fault with our often preaching because your selues cannot so doe but if you woulde leaue off your vaine glory in hunting after promotion and your couetousnesse in adding murther vnto theft I meane liuing to liuing and betake your selues to study and praier bending your whole indeuor to the glorie of God and edifying of his people you should see the blessing of God so aboundantly vppon you that you shold preach foure times euery week with more fruite than you can doe nowe foure times euery yeare for while you bee minded as you are the Lords iudgment is vpon your gifts and his cursse vpon your labours that you appeare ridiculous euen vnto children And whereas you say often preaching cloyeth the people you shewe your selfe plainely to haue no feeling in the sweetnes of the worde of God for it is so delightfull vnto the childe of God that the more he heareth and readeth it the more desirous is he to proceede therein it is the propertie of the vngodly to whome the word is foolishnes to be cloied with the same Diotreph You shal not be my teacher neither wil I learne at your hands I know wel inough what I haue to do Paule I do not speak as a teacher vnto you but in brotherly loue doo admonishe you and if you refuse mine or rather the councell of the holie-ghost vttered by me you doo but as they do whose condition you defend I pray God forgiue it you and lay it neither to your nor their charge Diotreph They are great moates in your eies they know better what to do than you can tell them they see what is meet for the Church being auncient graue men of long experience better than a sort of yong boyes start vp but yesterday Paule Though some be but yong yet al are not so for we haue some more ancient than they haue any we haue of all ages and degrees of Schooles to compare with the best of them and yet yeares and humane learning and experience must not carrie away the matter but the euidence of truth in the old new Testament and as for experience they haue none for they were first brought vppe in the vniuersities then became Deanes and such iollie fellowes and nowe are made Mitred Lordes so that they cannot tel what it is to traine vp a people to the gospel reclaime them from ignorance and sinne for they neuer stouped so lowe as to labour therein but if they had euen my experience they would sing an other song for before I came into the haruest to worke I liked their hierarchy wel inough but when I laid it to my labours to further them I found that they coulde not possibly stand together Diotreph Did the gospell euer so flourishe in EnglaÌ„d as it doth now at this present Paule No surely God be praised for it and encrease it more more but to what end do you speake it Diotreph To prooue that the authoritie and wise gouernement of the Bishops hath had good successe Paule I thought so but it is if you woulde looke into the matter with a single eie cleane contrarie for the good that hath bin done the Lorde hath brought it to passe by these menne whome you despise and by that course which the Bishops were euer enemies vnto â—â—â—â—â—eph How can you proue that I pray you let mee heare your reasons that mooue you to thinke so for I am perswaded of the cleane contrarie Paule It serueth not
in this case what you are perswaded of for a Bishoptick hath so blinded your eies corrupted your iudgement that you like nothing but that which agreeth therewithall but I will shew you my reasons that maketh me of that iudgement and if you look equallie into the matter or aske anie indifferent man you shall see it to bee so Diotreph Shew mee them for I long to heare them I am sure they be wise stuffe Paule First for the men what congregatioÌ„ what towne or people is there in this land that they haue bene in the raigne of our soueraine Q. Elizabeth conuerted to the gospell that those men haue not bene the instruments to performe whome the Bishops haue continuallie persecuted and for the courses that haue bene taken and which God hath greatly blessed which of them haue not bin ouerturned by the Bish. and the preachers put to silence assoone as euer the gospell beganne to appeare On the other side tell me if you be able of any such effect of the ministerie of a B. or bishoplie preacher in anie place of this land though it hath beene interrupted these twelue yeeres as you shal see in many places by the other sort euen in few moneths now and then so that the matter is not onelie cleare vnto all that will weigh it in the ballance of equitie but vnto me if I had no reason it is an euideÌ„t proofe that they take the right way whose labours the Lorde doth so blesse and contrariwise the curse of God is on the other for their indirect dealing Diotreph Thus you imagin because you please your selfe in your owne peeuish waies but tell me who are of your opinion euen a few Puritans like your selfe Pauls Call vs as you list Christ was neuer the woorse for that his ennemies called him a seducer a deceiuer of the people but I am sure all for the most parte that feare God of euerie degree and calling are of the same minde sauing those whom you by your sutleties haue be witched Diotreph You will haue but a few then in this land that feare God and so you will condemne the rest which is the maner of all of you Paule I condemne none I wishe that not a few but all if it were possible did truely feare God but I woulde haue you learne of Christ wyth me who may without disgrace be your teacher to trie the tree by the fruit and seeke me out that man which maketh a conscience of sinne and hath a care to liue as a christian that is not of the same mind with vs on the other side marke what kinde of men they be that are the patrous and defenders of the Bishops and you shal see them to be men that make no reckoning of sinne but haue their wayes fraughted with all impietie if they bee ttied with the touchstone of Gods word Diotreph Well then you confesse yet that the generall sway goeth on our side and so long as it is so we care not Paule I wil easily grant it and so haue they from the beginning and shall to the ending of the world against all goodnes but I will tel you one thing euen of theÌ„ that few of them like you indeed Diotreph How can these twoo stand together many are with vs few like of vs they be meere contrary Paule I wil tel you how the Papist is on the Bi. side because he can finde shilter vnder them to hide his idolatry The atheist is tooth and naile for them because by them he enioieth carnal libertie the man of most notorious life defendeth theÌ„ bieause he can froÌ„ theÌ„ redeeme the corporal punishment of his sins by mony but none of these like of theÌ„ indeed The first because they keepe the possession of the seats of their popish prelats the other because they are so greedie in their courts for money that euen euery man crieth shame on them who then do loue them indeed and sticke to them onely these three hang-bies that depend vpon them and liue by them as their chaplains and seruants the Cananits I should say the Canonists and such ministers as either cannot or will not labour in their function to conuert soules vnto God so that they doo stincke in the nostrels both of God man especially in these three last yeeres of their tyrannie that I doe verily hope their sinne is very neare the heigth and the Lord in mercy will ease vs of them shortly Diotreph You are a strange fellow and please your selfe with wonderful perswasions but I pray you tel me what maketh you say they are now more hated seeing that in the last yeares the best meanes haue bin vsed to establishe the ministery in a consent and conformitie vnto them Paule Let the meanes be as good as it will I praise God for the successe of it howsoeuer the contrary was meant Diotreph Why praise you God for it I am sure you neuer liked of it Paule The meanes indeede I neuer liked neither I thinke did euer any reasonable man but it being a britle wall dawbed with vntempered morter had that successe that such sandie foundations do deserue Diotreph Why man what successe had it I am sure the greatest part yea euen of your forwardest men subscribed and those that did not are not like to â—arry in the Church very long Paule Wel sooth vp your selfe in your own perswasion and brag of the multitude of subscribers if it were to doo againe hundreds of them would neuer doo it because they were subtilly circumuented and deceiued they meaning well tendring the peace of the Church but being now sorie for it wil stand in defence of the cause I dare say for them with their brethren euen vnto death So that the Bysh haue but their names written And yet that if they would also shew the protestations and condicions by which they were induced and wherof the B. made alowance it wold plainely appeare that either they dealt wickedly to admit exceptions if the articles were true or more vngodly if they were not euer to attempt any such matter Diotreph Tell me now what is that wherein you seeme to reioice as though the issue of it fell on your side Paule It is euen this that the Bish. straight dealing made men to looke so narrowly into the cause and to seeke the reasons on both sides for their owne satisfaction that there are at this day I am fullie perswaded tenne times as manie of all degrees that are fully perswaded of the matters of reformation as were before so gracious God is vnto his seruaunts to make euen their enemies to do them good and so tender is hee ouer his owne cause and glorie that he wil make the verie meanes intended to oppugne it be notable wayes to aduance it Diotreph I do not beleeue you albeit I cannot controll you in it because I haue not bin in England of late but what will come of it if it be so Paule Euen
The state of the Church of Englande laide open in a conference betweene Diotrephes a Bishop Tertullus a Papist Demetrius an vsurer Pandocheus an In-keeper and Paule a Preacher of the word of God PSAL. 122. 6. Pray for the peace of Hierusalem let them prosper that loue the Lord. REVEL 14. 9. 10. And the third Angel followed them saying with a loud voice if any man worship the beast and his image and receiue his marke in his forehead or on his hande the same shall drinke of the wine of the wrath of God THE PRAEFACE JEntle Reader I haue sette down heere in a dialogue the practize of Sathan which hee vseth as I haue obserued by experience to subuert and vtterly ouerturne the course of the gospel here in England the names of the speakers containe in them for the moste parte the matter that they defend and the affection that they are of For thou knowest that Diotrephes was hee of whom S. Iohn speaketh in his third Epi. v. 9. that louing to haue the preheminence disturbed the course of good things in the Church and therefore sustaineth the person of a Bishop or byshoplie prelate Tertullus is he of whom Luke speaketh in the 24. Acts that was the speaker in the ambassage from Hierusalem to Foelix the gouernor against Paule in the defence of ceremonies abrogated from the ouerthrowe of the Gospell and so representeth the Papists that maintaine their trash to the rooting out of true religion Demetrius is he of whom mention is made in Actes 19. that was enemie to Paule because he liued by an vnlawfull trade and for that cause doth play the part of an vsurer Paule was the defender you knowe of the Gospell in sinccritie he whose pen the holy Ghost did vse to expresse the discipline of the church most clerely and therefore speaketh for the ministers of our time that stand for reformation Pandocheus is an In-keeper in Greeke and it is as much as to say a receiuer of all and a soother of euerie man for his gaine so that the persons in their nature thus considered it remaineth that thou wouldest be intreated by me whosoeuer thou art to whoÌ„ this little booke shall come that thou wouldest in reading of it set all affectioÌ„ aside neither beleeue it because one of thy disposition did pen it neither yet reiâ—ct it because it was not composed by one of thy complexion but considdâ—r well of the speeches vttered by euerie partie compare them with the practize of the worlde and then looke what it is that so hardeneth Pandocheus in Atheisine Demetrin in vsurie Tertullus in Papistrie and you shall I doubt not plainely perceiue that the cause of all vngodlines so to raigne in euery place and of the Papists so to increase in strength and number ariseth from our Byshops and their vnlawfull gouernement on the other side looke into the answers that Diotrephes maketh to Paul and the councell that Tertullus giueth to Diotrephes and compare them with the practize of the B. in all pointes and you shall euidentlye perceiue that the cause why the gospel being so long preached hath taken so little effect ariseth from them onely forsomuch as they haue weakened the knees of the true Preachers and euerie way crossed them in all good actions I haue touched thinges verie briefly of purpose partly for that they who see what reformation meaneth will quickly vnderstand my meaning and partly for that I would haue him that vnderstandeth not mine intent and would be resolued to confer at large of it wyth some godly learned for his further instruction Now I pray thee let mee intreat thee to think thus of mine intent namely that it is not of purpose to disgrace any man albeit we ought to disgrace them by whom God his sonne is disgraced but especially to this end that euery man in his calling might see howe hee is or hath beene made an instrument to do harme or for want eyther of knowledge or prouident forecast being ouertaken vnder colour of right and law lastly that we al seeing the subtilties of the deuill againste the kingdom of Christ Iesus may first of al returne to God by speedie repentance from the wickednesse that we haue in our hands which in deede is the cause of this cursse vpon vs and then praie vnto his Maiestie that he would detect the craftie subtilties of all his aduersaries reueale the trueth to those that are seduced and abused and erect the kingdome of his Sonne Christ Iesus amongst vs by the forme of that discipline that his owne worde expresseth vnto vs. The state of the Church of England Diotreph MIne hoste I pray you stay with me and my friende M. Tertullus and tell vs some newes for wee are lately come out of Scotland and would heare before wee come nere London in what state things doo stand least wee comming on a sudden speede as ill as wee did at Edenborough and S. Andrews Pandoch Good my Lorde I canne tell you no great newes for I go not so farre as to Church once in a moneth but if I doo happen to go one of my seruants doth come for me in all haste to make merrie with one guest or other but there be twoo in this house that came from London if it please your L. I wil intreat one of them to come vnto you it may be he can tell you some thing Diotreph I pray thee doo so you are welcome my friend I vnderstand that you came from London I pray you tell me some newes for I hauing beene in Scotland some space haue not heard much of the state of England Demetri My L. I heare no newes but that our Bishoppes Gods blessing haue theyr heartes for it say pretie wel by one and by one to these precise and hot Preachers for some of them are putte to silence some of them close prisoners in the Gate-house some well loden wyth yrons in the White-lyon and some in the Clinke I hope to see them one day all put downe for they trouble the whole land and are neither contented to obey the authoritie of these holie fathers neyther yet will suffer vs to liue as our fore-fathers haue doone before vs and heere is a good fellowe which I met yesterday vppon the way who is iust of their opinion Pandoch I knowe not of what religion hee of whome you speake is of but I am sure that hee hath manie of our Preachers quallities for whiche I like him the woorse for since our Preacher came I haue not gained halfe so much as heretofore I did but if I had but euery night suche a guest wythin one moneth all men woulde refraine from comming to mine house and so I might begge Diotreph Why mine hoste what are his qualities that you dislike so much Pandoeh VVhat I will tell you as soone as euer he lighted my man that tooke his horse chanced but to sweare by God and he was reproouing of him
the gouernment of the church by the rules of that discipline whiche Christ him selfe hath prescribed in his word which I do perswade my selfe to see before it be long Diotreph You woulde be examined before a iustice punished for saying you hope to see an alteration you cannot be the Q. friend that thus looke for innouations in the state Paule Examine me when you will and punish me as God shall giue you leaue I will be tried to be so far the Q. friend as that I wish so well vnto hir as vnto mine owne soule and all that I saye or desire is not to inuert any thing in the state that is good but to haue the corruption thereof remooued and hir maiestie more honoured before God and men in drawing more neare vnto hir God in aduauncing the kingdome of his sonne more gloriously within hir dominions Diotreph These be but fained wordes I do not beleeue that you speake as you thinke Paule It is bicause you measure me by your selfe who indeede care neither for Qu. Countrey nor your owne soule but for a Bishoppricke but I thanke God in Christ my conscience beareth me witnesse that they be all verie deare vnto me Diotreph Away thou railing hypocrite I will talke with thee no longer if I catch thee in London I will make thee kisse the Clincke for this geare Paule Indeede the Clincke Gate-house White-lion the fleet haue bin your onely arguments whereby you haue prooued your causes these manie yeres but you shall preuaile no longer for your wickednesse is made manifest vnto all men which God will shortlie repay into your own bosoms seuen fold but pray you to God to giue you repentance that those things happen not vnto you Diotreph Pray thou for thy selfe and care not for mee I knowe well inough what I haue to do without thy counsell but it is your manner to teach all men Tertullus Out vpon him what a fellowe is this my Lord I neuer heard such a one in my life Diotreph I can tell you he gesseth shrewdlie I per eiue that our course which wee haue taken and our intent in our actions haue bin descried by one meanes or other Tertullus My lord it was a thing obserued in the Puritans at Geneua and in France while I was in Rhemes that we could neuer inuent anie practise for the furtheraunce of the Catholique religion but they knew it often before wee put it in execution so that for the moste part they preuent all our determinations Diotreph Howsoeuer it be I am wonderfully sorie that they seeme so to triumph and that our matters haue no better successe it behoueth vs to looke about vs we will speed our selues to London to take some way in hast least it be too late in the meane while I pray you tell me for you must be my counseller whé all is done what way you thinke best to be taken Tertullus I will doo the best I can I must first request one thing of you before I ioine to help you Diotreph What is that if it be not vnreasonable you may assure your selfe of it for you know that I haue neuer bin strait laced against you nor anye of your friends Tertullus I doubt not of it but how can I haue it before I aske it of you you know that we receiued letters from England that there were verie hard lawes made this last parliament against the Catholikes this is it therfore I must request that you would vse meanes that the rigour of them be not inforced for you knowe that wee haue many both in Court and countrey that shall else bee in great danger Diotreph I am verie well contented to doo so but what way shall I take to do it Tertullus Surely such a way as shall also make greatly for your owne cause and that is this complaine of the domesticall for the Puritan and say that they bee woorse than we and that you shall neuer preuaile against vs vntill first they be suppressed and desire that we may be let alone for a time and that al men would bend their forces against them Diotreph This is excellent I am verie willing to do this for it will helpe forward our owne cause nowe go on and tell mee what is to be doone further Tertullus The first thing you must take in hād must be the suppression of those preachers in London and in other countries that be of most speciall note for their forwardnes against you and you must do it verie wisly that is you may not suppresse them all at once neither all of them in a long time for you must take heede that the world do not conceiue opinion of you to be enemies to the Gospell for then haue you no way but to turne wholie vnto vs. Diotreph That will be a verie good way but how shall we haue good matter against them for their liues are thought to be very vpright and they haue learned of late to be more pollitike than heeretofore for if they speak against any thing established they doo it so cunningly that aduantage can not be taken against them by law Tertullus Neuer doubt of that was there euer any man that went to beat a dogge but he could easily finde out a staffe to doo it you must in this case preferre your safetie before your credit or the estimation of anye that belongeth vnto you Diotreph Yea but shew me some particulars for I promise you I see not how to doo it Tertullus You must be sure to let none preach at Paules crosse but they of whom you haue experience to like wel of you and you must giue them instructions before hand that they do inuey mightilie against the reformation that our aduersaries desire and there wil one or other of them speake against that and so you may haue sufficient aduantage against them Diotreph But these fellowes be very sharpe to find a fault What and if the matter which our friend preacheth be false so the other take occasion to cōfute it Tertullus Then must you vrge him to defende that which he hath said and so shal you haue more occasion to intrap the aduersarie Diotreph But in so doing he whome we set on worke shall lose his credit Tertullus What and if he do do you compare his credit with the waight of your Bishoprickes There is no comparison Diotreph You say true but what if it shall fall out that the aduersarie be not blame-worthy neither in matter nor manner Tertullus If hee maintaine the controuersie it is sufficient cause to put him to silence though he haue the better part for you must maintain the peace of the Church Diotreph But this is not all for how shall we do for the courte that is the place which aboue all we must fortifie or els we are gone Tertullus Indeede there is great care to be had of it and there be many waies to preuent vs there but we will doo what we can in it