Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	church_n	schism_n	separation_n	4,536	5	11.0940	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A97096	The compassionate Samaritane unbinding the conscience, and powring oyle into the wounds which have beene made upon the separation: recommending their future welfare to the serious thoughts, and carefull endeavours of all who love the peace and unity of Commonwealths men, or desire the unanimous prosecution of the common enemie, or who follow our Saviours rule, to doe unto others, what they would have others doe unto them.	Walwyn, William, 1600-1681.; Goodwin, John, 1594?-1665, attributed name.	1644 (1644)	Wing W681B; Thomason E1202_1; ESTC R208770	22,915	91

City yet many whose number might much encrease the yearly revennue of the Minister and therefore you must thinke it has concerned them to meet together and to say amongst themselves Sirs you know that by this our craft we have our wealth moreover ye se hear that not alone at London but in most parts of the Kingdom these Separatists have perswaded turnd away much peo ple saying that our Ministry is no true Ministry our Church no true Church our Doctrine in many things erronious that our succession from the Apostles is but a pretended thing as we our selves do derive it descended for many 100. yeares through the detestable Papacy mish Ministry so that if these men be suffered our gaine and the magnificence of the Ministery wich not England only but all Christendome doth highly magnificence of the Ministery wich not England only but all Christendome doth highly magnifie and reverence would quickly downe For what other reason then this can be imagined why the Separati on should bee the eye-sore of our Ministers It cannot be instanced in one particular whereby the Common-wealth receives prejudice from them And then for the charge of Separating for their maknig a Scisme which is endeavoured to be cast so heavily upon them I answer That by reason of the Church of Romes corruptions the Church of England did long since make a Scisme from the Church of Rome for which cause likewise many of the present Ministers in lieve of the Antichristian domineering Bishops thought it no robbery to make scisme from England and even this Idolizing Synod which though not yet upon her Throne sticks not to let her clients see she sayes in her heart Behold I s●t a queen I am no widdow and shall see no sorrow Rev. 18. 7. May not I say this Reverend Synod if to be proceeded against by such carnall sandy principles such humane ordinances by which the Separatists stand prejudiced be legally found to have made the greatest and most transcendent scisme which England ever knew or heard of since the Papistrie was discarded If then the Separation have gon a little further and not only with the Bishops separated from Rome with the Ministers from the Bishops but by reason of some corruptions still remaining among the Ministers are by their consciences necssitated to separate from them likewise In all these separations there was difference in judgment the Bishops differ in some things from Rome our Ministers from the Bishops and amongst themselves too which differecnes by the Scriptures they cannot determine as appeareth both by their writings and preachings wherein with nuch vehemency they urge the same against other of little force then will the major vote of a Synod be for the determining thereof having so lately most notoriously discovered themselves to be men-pleasers and temporisers by crying downe the things which but yesterday they so highly magnified in their Pulpits and also practised with much devotion at least seemingly and having withall their owne interests so much concerned therein as is before in Part declared And further knowing that the same persons themselves and their Tenets as well as the opinions of Independents Brownists and Anababtists whom they oppose doe stand condemned not by the major vote of divers Synods only but by many generall Counsells also who are accounted to represent the whole Church upon Earth no whit inferiour to them either in Arts or Learning or any other qualification Let it be then no wonder nor so much as seem blameable hereafter that the Separatists should differ in some Opinions from this present Synod since the Ministers therein no little differ amongst them selves much more than ye● appeares and will do so while Sun and Moon endures untill we have courage and strength enough to abandon all private interests and advantages All times have produced men of severall wayes and I beleive no man thinkes there will be an agreement of judgement as longe as this World lasts If ever there be in all probability it must proceed from the power and efficacie of Truth not from constraint Objection An Assembly of Divines men that have imployed all their time in the study of Religion are more likely to find out the truth then other men that have not so spent their time who being now consulting what Doctrines and what Discipline is most agreeable to the Word of God it is but meet that all men should waite their leasure till it be manifest what they shall produce Answ To this objection I say first That they being now in consultation not for themselves but as they say for the whole people it is but reasonable that they should publish to the world whatsoever is in debate amongst them and invite every man to give them their best light and information that so they may heare all voyces and not conclude ought against mens judgments before it be heard what they can say for themselves This might peradventure be a meanes to find out all truth and settle things so as that every man might be satisfied You will say that they consider of all objections amongst themselves I reply that is not sufficient for 't is a knowne case men are generally partiall to themselves and their owne judgments urging the weakest objections and that but slightly and it can give no satisfaction to men to have their causes pleaded by their Adversaries Secondly how palpable soever it appeare that an Assembly of Divines are more likely to find out truth then other men yet it is to be considered that it will puzzle any man to instance when they did so Besides grant it be more probable yet it may be otherwise and 't is well knowne hath proved so The Liturgie was by universall consent approved and by the Parliaments Authority authorised particular men being for these many yeares averse to it and separating from the publike Congregations because of it it now appeares who were in the right How confident soever therefore the Divines as they style them selves are that they shall find out the right rule yet since it may be and hitherto hath been otherwise it is but meet that they should decree only for themselves and such as are of their owne mind and allow Christian Liberty to all their Brethren to follow that way which shall seem to them most agreable to truth Ob. But we are told in the Divines Considerations that all men must wait otherwise the Parliament are like to be provoaked Answ J marry Sir this is a good strongue Argument and speakes home to us I cannot blame the Separatists now for crying out they feare your Club more then your Reason I see what they might expect if the sword and authority were in your hand your nine Considerations informes me wherin are these two suppositions First that the right rule may not be delivered us And secondly that then men may be called to s●ffer It is a wonder to observe the wrethed condition of man and his

foule ingratitude Is it so long since the yoakes were broaken off these mens necks that they forget the burthen injustice of them or that assistance they had from their separatist Brethren in breaking those yoakes that now so soone as they are got into reputation they should suppose a time of suffering for their brethren for doing what to them appeares to be their duty Regard O God since man is become thus forgetfull take thy distressed Servants the Separatists into thine owne pr●tection Thou O Lord that art the Judge of all the Earth put into the hearts of the Parliament to doe right in this cause and to suffer those afflicted people no longer to endure reproach or molestation for doing of their duties Ob. But some may I beat the Aire all this while there is no purpose in the Divines to force the conscience they are sufficienily informed that the conscience cannot be forced being in no wise snbject to compulsion only it concerues them they say to prevent the grouth and encrease of errours which cannot otherwise be done but by punishing those that are the authors and maintainers of them that so truth only may flourish and the Gospell with the Ordinances according to the true institution of them be maintained and practised by all the people of the Nation Answ I answer that though it were certaine that what they esteeme truth were so indeed and that the true Gospell and Ordinances were in every part and circumstance of them that which they judge them to be however though they are earnestly to endeavour by argument and perswation to reduce all men to the same beleife● and practice with themselves yet those that cannot be thereunto periwaded they ought not by any meanes to punish for the first and third Reasons afore given But then for the assurance of the Divines that their conclusions and Articles are certainly true if it be built vpon certaine foundations they need not avoyde the combate with any sort of men of what opinion soever Truth was uot used to feare or to seeke shifts or stratagems for its advancement I should rather thinke that they who are assured of her should desire that all mens mouthes should be open that so errour may discover its foulnes and trueth become more glorious by a victorious conquest after a fight in open field they shunne the battell that doubt their strenght Wise men are at a stand to see that whilest the Presse was open no man undertooke the Anabaptists and that now their adversaries have bound their hands they begin to buffet them what can they doe else but necessarily ssupect that our Divines have not the truth nor by any evidence thereof are able to make good their owne standings or practices To stop mens mouths or punish men for speaking their mindes was profitable indeed and necessarie for the Bishopes who had proposed to themselves such endes as could endure no discourse upon them and framed such constitutions ceremonies and doctrines as must be received without scanning or else would appeare empty and groundlesse But that the reforming Clergy that pretend to have truth in its simplicity and the Gospell in its purity and seeme to abominate all by-endes or respects should yet take the same course of prohititions with the Bishops locke up the Presse and then vent themselves in a furious and evidently scandalizing way as in their late preachings and Pamphlets against the Anabaptists will make I beleeve all wise men suspect that either they doubt their owne tenets or know some grosse errours amongst themselves which yet their interests and professions engage them to maintaine To say they goe not about to compell the conscience which is uncapable of compu●sion but will only punish the person is as if they were sportfull in their cruelty and shewes as if it proceeded from men setled and long practised in tyranny I could wish for Christianity sake they had more wisedome then to play with mens afflictions I professe unto you did I still dote upon the persons and seeming holynesse of our Miuisters as I have done such carriage as this I thinke would open mine eyes and make me see they are not the men they seeme to be that in so sho●t ● time can grow so wanton with their owne estate and preheminence as to gibe and scoffe at their brethrens miseries Is it not a shame to our profession and scandall to our cause that well affected men reall and irreconcileable enemies to tyranny and our common Adversaries should be necessitatd to leave their native Country because they can hope nothing from you our Divines but to be imprisoned or punished for exercising their consciences though by their helpe you should be setled in your liberties I cannot tell what else to make of this for my part but that you bad rather be slaves to the King and hazard the freed me of the whole Nation then that these men should have freedome with you yee may flatter your selves that yee are rich in spirituall graces and presume that you are in the right and have found out the truth of the Gospell and Ordieances but so long as yee want the maine evidences thereof Love and lowlinesse of mind so long as yee propose dominion and the sway over your Brethren which our Saviour said his followers shonld not doe Matth. 20. 25. 26. Murke 10. 42. you must give men that are unwilling to be deceived leave to thinke that yee have yet but the forme and shew of Religion but want the inward sweetnesse and most excellent fruites and effects thereof I could wish I had no occasion for speaking thus much but when sores bigin to fester they must not be nourished and swathed but lanc'd and corraciv'd 't is no time to hide and excuse mens imperfections when they strive to take roote for perpetuity Were it in mine own cause I could not speak so much but in halfe of such a harmelesse people as I have found those of the Separation to be after much inquiry and examination of their Tenets and practice I thinke my selfe bound in conscience to breke silence and become their advocate Ob. There is one Objection more against the Anabaptists in particular and that is that they allow not of Civill government and therefore not to be tolerated because they hold an opinion directly destructive to the Common-wealth Ans Who saies they hold this opinion why the Divines commonly in their Pulpits and what ground have they for their so saying They find it in bookes that they who have written of them affirme that they maintaine this opinion But how if the societies of Anabaptists in this Kinghome are most Zealous and rationall defenders of our Government as to my knowledge they are and that experience can testifie for them that noe men have more forwardly and constantly then they assisted the Parliament against those that would disolve our free governement and bring in tyranny how is it true then that the Anabaptists hold such