Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A Word B Word C Word D Occurrence Frequency Band MI MI Band Prominent
cause_n church_n rome_n separation_n 2,430 5 10.6947 5 true
View all documents for the selected quad

Text snippets containing the quad

ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A45154 A reply to the defence of Dr. Stillingfleet being a counter plot for union between the Protestants, in opposition to the project of others for conjunction with the Church of Rome / by the authors of the Modest and peaceable inquiry, of the Reflections, (i.e.) the Country confor., of the Peaceable designe. Humfrey, John, 1621-1719.; Lobb, Stephen, d. 1699. 1681 (1681) Wing H3706; ESTC R8863 130,594 165

There are 5 snippets containing the selected quad. | View lemmatised text

have been for his purpose and rectification In his Defence of the Church of England Tom. 2. Disp 2. c. 2. he saith The Communion of the Christian Catholick Church is partly internal partly external Among many other things in discoursing of internal communion 't is added That it is to judg charitably one of another To exclude none from the Catholick Communion and hope of salvation either Eastern or Western or Southern or Northern Christians which profess the ancient Faith of the Apostles and primitive Fathers established in the first General Councils and comprehended in the Apostolick Nicene and Athanasian Creeds This granted by our Author as describ'd by Bramhall seeing the Faith contain'd in these Creeds is professed by the Dissenters 't is queried Whether or no this Gentleman doth not fall short in this respect of Catholick internal communion by excluding the Dissenters from the Catholick communion and hope of salvation Moreover as to external communion says Bramhall There are degrees of exclusion every one that is excluded is not cut off from the Catholick Church for external communion may sometimes be suspended more or less by the just censures of the Church clave non errante as in the primitive times some were excluded a caetu participantium only from the use of the Sacraments others a caetu procumbentium from Sacraments and Prayers also and others a caetu Audientium from Sacraments Prayers and Sermons and others a caetu Fil●lium from the society of Christians yea and as it may be suspended it may be waved or withdrawn by particular Churches or persons from their Neighbour Churches or Christians in their Innovations or Errors Nor is there so strict and perpetual an adherence required to a particular Church as to the universal Church This surely is enough to intimate how sudden our Authors thoughts were for had he but deliberated on those things as this great Bishop did he would not assert so confidently That the separating from a particular Church that is in the Universal is a separating from the Universal Leaving therefore our Author to receive further light from this Bishop concerning his own notion I 'le make my address to the Reader beseeching him to apply himself to our Protestant Divines for an answer to what is said against the dependency of the Church of England on Foreign Churches such as Rome c. And as to what he saith concerning Schism from the Universal Church which p. 256. saith he is when any shall separate from that part of the Catholick Church where they dwell and set up any distinct Churches meerly for some greater degree of purity This is so like what the Author of Charity maintain'd by Catholicks insisted on that the Memorandums given by the famous Mr. Chillingworth will be sufficient to enab'e an ordinary capacity to answer the whole he hath asserted about Schism 1. That not every separation but a causless separation from the external communion of any Church is the sin of Schism 2. That imposing upon men under pain of Excommunication a necessity of professing known errors and practising known corruptions is a sufficient and necessary cause of separation and that this is the cause which Protestants alledg to justifie their separation from the Church of Rome To which I must add That this is the cause which Dissenters alledg to justifie their separation from the Church of England it being uncontroulably true That the professing known errors and the practising known corruptions is imposed on Dissenters on pain of Excommunication as hath been proved in Mr. Baxter's first Plea for Peace never answered but only nibled at by some inconsiderate Scriblers The Dissenters are convinc'd in conscience that if they continued in your communion they should sin against God What can be offered against this I know not unless you 'l say unto us thus viz. If this your pretence of conscience may serve what Schismatick in the Church what popular seditious brain in a Kingdom may not alledg the dictamen of conscience to free themselves from Schism or Sedition No man wishes them to do any thing against their conscience but we say that they may and ought to rectifie and depose such a conscience which is easie for them to do This is what hath been frequently urg'd by the Clergy yea by the Dean of Pauls But seeing these words are taken out of the mouth of a Papist the answer shall be no other than what I find in the mouth of a son of the Church the famous Chillingworth who asserts That whoever is convinced in conscience that the Church of Rome errs cannot with a good conscience but forsake her in the profession and practice of her errors and the reason hereof is manifest because otherwise he must profess what he believes not and practice what he approves not which is no more than your self in thesi have divers times affirmed For in one place you say 't is unlawful to speak any the least untruth Now he that professes your Religion and believes it not what else doth he but live in a perpetual lye Again in another you have called them that profess one thing and believe another a damned crew of dissembling Sycophants And therefore in inveighing against Protestants for forsaking the profession of those Errors the belief whereof they had already forsaken what do you but rail at them for not being a damned crew of Sycophants The same may be said as to the Dissenters who are in conscience convinced that they must profess to believe what really they do not should they conform But as to what the wicked may pretend as to conscience take the Author's answer 'T is said that a pretence of conscience will not serve to justifie separation from being Schismatical which is true but little to the purpose saith Mr. Chil. seeing it was but an erroneous persuasion much less an hypocritical pretence but a true and well grounded conviction of conscience And therefore though seditious men in the Church and State may pretend conscience for a cloak of their Rebellion yet this I hope hinders not but that an honest man ought to obey his rightly informed conscience rather than the unjust command of his Tyrannous Superiors Otherwise with what colour can you defend either your own refusing the Oaths of Allegiance and Supremacy I may add Otherwise with what colour can the Dean and his Substitute defend their so firmly adhering to the present Constitution But to return to the third Memorandum 3. That to leave the Church and to leave the external communion of the Church at least as Dr. Potter understands the words and I think I may safely add as every Protestant but a Grotian understands is not the same thing That being done by ceasing to be a member of it by ceasing to have those requisites which constitute a man a member of it as Faith and Obedience This by refusing to communicate with any Church in her Liturgies and publick Worship of God This little Armour
Comment on the former entituled The English Pope Printed at London in the same Year 1643 and he will tell us That after Con had undertook the managing of the Affairs matters began to grow to some Agreement The King Required saith he such a Dispensation from the then Pope as that his Catholique Subjects might resort to the Protestant Churches and to take the Oaths of Supremacy and Fidelity and that the Pope's Jurisdiction here should be declared to be but of Humane Right And so far had the Pope consented that whatever did concern the King therein should have been really performed so far as other Catholick Princes usually enjoy and expect as their due And so far as the Bishops were to be Independent both from King and Pope there was no fear of breach on the Pope's part So that upon the point the Pope was to content himself amongst us in England with a Priority instead of a Superiority over other Bishops and with a Primacy instead of a Supremacy in these Parts of Christendom which I conceive no man of Learning and Sobriety would have grudged to grant him It was also condescended to in the name of the Pope that Marriage might be permitted to Priests that the Communion might be administred sub utraque specie and that the Liturgy might be officiated in the English Tongue And though the Author adds not long after that it was to be suspected That so far as the Inferiour Clergy and the People were concerned the after performance was to be left to the Popes discretion yet this was but his own Suspicion without ground at all And to obtain a Reconciliation upon these advantages the Archbishop had all the reason in the world to do as he did in ordering the Lords-Table to be placed where the Altar stood and making the accustomed Reverence in all approaches towards it and accesses to it In beautifying and adorning Churches and celebrating the Divine Service with all due Selemnities in taking care that all offensive and exasperating passages should be expunged out of such Books as were brought to the Press and for reducing the extravagancy of some Opinions to an evener temper His Majesty had the like Reason also for Tolerating lawful Recreations on Sundays and Holydays But the Doctor goes on If you would know how far they had proceeded towards this happy Reconciliation the Popes Nuncio will assure us thus That the Universities Bishops and Divines of this Realm did daily embrace Catholick Opinions though they professed not so much with Pen or Mouth for fear of the Puritans For example They hold that the Church of Rome is a true Church That the Pope is Superiour to all Bishops That to him it appertains to call General Councils That 't is lawful to pray for the Souls of the departed That Altars ought to be erected of Stone In sum That they believe all that is taught by the Church but not by the Court of Rome Another of their Authors tells us as was elsewhere noted That those amongst us of greatest Worth Learning and Authority began to love Temper and Moderation That their Doctrines began to be altered in many things for which their Progenitors forsook the Visible Church of Christ As for example The Pope not Antichrist Prayers for the Dead Limbus Patrum Pictures That the Church hath Authority in determining Controversies of Faith and to interpret Scriptures about Free-will Predestination Universal Grace That all our Works are not Sins Merit of good Works Inherent Justice Faith alone doth justifie Charity to be preferr'd before Knowledg the Authority of Traditions Commandments possible to be kept That in Exposition of the Scripture they are by Canon bound to follow the Fathers And that the once fearful names of Priests and Altars are used willingly in their Talk and Writings In which compliances so far forth as they speak the Truth saies Heylin for in some points through the Ignorance of the One and the Malice of the Other they are much mistaken there is scarce any thing which may not very well consist with the established though for a time discontinued Doctrine of the Church of England The Articles whereof as the same Jesuit hath observed seem patient or ambitious rather of some sense wherein they may seem Catholick And such a sense is put upon them by him that calls himself Franciscus â Sancta Clara as before was said So far Heylir Thus to carry on this Recenciling Design all the care imaginable must be taken to humour the Papist not only by prosecuting the Puritan with the greatest severity but the Pope must not any longer be stigmatized with the name of Antichrist all exasperating passages in any Book brought to the Press must be expung'd not one word of the Gunpowder-Treason for said Baker the Bishop of London's chaplain We are not now so angry with the Papists as we were twenty years ago and that there was no need to exasperate them and therefore the Book concerning the Gunpowder-Treason must by no means be reprinted the Divine Service must be in some respects altered that whereas the Reformers in Queen Elizabeth's time had a greater kindness for the Pope than those in H. 8. and Ed. 6. manifested by expunging a clause against the Pope viz. From the tyranny of the Bishop of Rome and all his detestable enormities Good Lord deliver us Even so in imitation Archbishop Land changes some phrases in the Book of Prayers for the fifth of November So far a Church of England Dr. To which I might add several other instances but I wish there had not been the woful occasion of insisting on so much By this time the Reader may see cause to suspect at least the Deans Substitute who in the Defence of the Dr. gives us the scheme of the old Grotian model so much esteemed by the Archbishop Laud who in his walking towards Rome kept most exactly thereunto But notwithstanding this caution must be had that we reproach not all the Church of England as if they had been such as this Author for I do verily believe there are very few this day in England among the Conforming Clergy who will approve of this mans notion but probably may judg themselves as much concerned to oppose it as any among the Dissenters I 'm sure Abbot Archbishop of Canterbury and Usher Primate of Ireland were persons of quite another principle and temper And not only Abbot and Usher but if we may judg of a Queen Elizabeth Protestant by the Writings of the famous Hooker and Dr. Field we may be sure that this man to say nothing of the Dean hath notwithstanding the great talk of the glory of the first Reformation forsaken the notion the old church of England had of the church and of such as are judged Schismatical falling in with the French Papacy about Church-Government as I will evince in the next Section SECT II. The Deans Substitutes agreement with the Papists about Schism even when he differs from the
wait a while but at length humbly desire a Parochial Discipline instead of which they fall under the lash of new Impositions unto which they could not Conscienciously conform hence many Learned Jud●●●us Godly and Faithful Ministers are cast out even at such a time when the Church had but a company of Illiterate Fellows to officiate in Publick From whence proceedeth the First S●parati●n as appears from what the old Smith said in his Answer to the Bishop of London's charge where you will find that although they separated from the Church because their faithful Ministers were turn'd out yet they even then made it manifest That they left not the Liturgy because it contain'd Forms of Prayer for they made use of a Form at their Separate Meeting Take Smith's words in a part of the Register Indeed as you said even now for Preaching and ministring the Sacraments so long as we might have the Word freely Preached and the Sacraments administred without the preferring of Idolatrous gear about it we never assembled together in Houses But when it came to this point that all our Preachers were displaced by your Law that would not subscribe to your Apparel and your Law so that we could not hear none of them in any Church by the space of seven or eight weeks except Father Coverdale of whom we have a good opinion and yet God knows the man was so fearful that he durst not be known unto us where he Preached though we sought it at his house And then were we troubled and commanded to your Courts from day to day for not coming to your Parish-Churches Then we bethought us what were best to do and we remembred that there was a Congregation of us in this City in Queen Marys days and a Congreagation at Geneva which used a Book and Order of Preaching Ministring of the Sacraments and Discipline most agreeable to the Word of God which Book is allowed by that Godly and Well-learned man Mr. Calvin and the Preachers there which Book and Order we now hold And if you can reprove this Book or any thing that we hold by the Word of God we will yield to you and do open Penance at Paul's Cross if not we will stand to it by the Grace of God Thus no Parochial Discipline being admitted but those who desir'd it being Ejected even at such a time when those who remain'd in Publick for the most part were Illiterate and Vicious the Separation begun The Ejection of the Godly Now Conformists the Sensuality of the remaining Clergy was a great Cause of the first Separation and not without great Reason For it being as essential to every true Gospel-Minister that he Govern the Church of which he is a Pastor as that he teaches and instructs it the taking from 'em so essential a part of their Office which by woful experience has been of a very ill tendency could not but occasion the Old Nonconformists to manifest their dislike to such proceedings and refuse the giving in an Assent and Consent thereunto for which Refusal they being Ejected the multitude of such as remain'd being Illiterate yea and Vicious in their Conversations the more sober People withdrew from the Publick and run after the Ejected The Scandals of the Clergy having had no inconsiderable influence on the Separation For which consult the Learned Dr. Burnet who saith In the Sponsions made by the Priests they bind themselves to teach the People committed to their charge to banish away all erroneous Doctrines and to use both publick and private Monitions and Exhortations as well to the sick as to the whole within their Cures as need shall require and as occasion shall be given Such as remember that they have plighted their Faith for this to God will feel the Pastoral Charge to be a load indeed and so be far enough from relinquishing it or hiring it out to a loose or ignorant Mercenary These are the blemishes and Scandals that lye on our Church brought on it partly by the corruption of some Simoniacal Patrons but chiefly by the Negligence of some and the Faultiness of other Clergy-men Which could never have lost so much ground in the Nation upon such trifling accounts as are the contests since raised about Ceremonies if it were not that the People by such palpable faults in the Persons and behaviour of some Church-men have been possessed with prejudices first against them and then upon their account against the whole Church So that these corrupt Church-men are not only to answer to God for all those Souls within their charge that have perished through their neglect but in a great degree for all the mischief of the Schism among us to the nourishing whereof they have given so great and palpable occasion The importance of those things made me judge they deserved this Digression Having been thus large in removing the Mistakes the Dr's Substitute seem'd to lye under let the Sober Reader judge Whether 't is any way probable that the Jesuits had an hand in the first Separation or whether the pretence about Spiritual Prayer was any ground of their Separation that is Whether they were against a Form of Prayer crying down the English Liturgy with a Design of setting up Free and Spritual Prayer in its stead SECT II. The Designs of the Jesuit against a Prelatical Episcopacy found to be none Some Differences between the first Reformers and our Author A Letter of Sir Francis Knolles to the Lord Treasurer Cecil out of which 't is prov'd That there is a Difference between some old Queen Elizabeths Bishops and the Dean c. The Author's Pretences about Antiquity confuted out of Bishop Jewel HIS Reply to what I offer'd to the Dean's second Argument falls now under Consideration The Dean in representing the Dissenter to the great Disadvantage of the Party insinuates as if their opposing Prelatical Episcopacy had been the most effectual way to cast reproach on the first Reformers and to introduce Popery In Answer unto this I did First prove 1. That it was not the Principle nor the Interest of the Jesuit to destroy Episcopacy A Truth the Dean's Substitute doth not deny 2. That the Reputation of the first Reformation is not in the least blasted by the Dissenter which I evinc'd with so much Demonstration that the whole that is returned by way of Answer is His not believing some of those persons on whose Testimony I insisted though he gives no Reason for his Unbelief His proving what I granted and his Extravagant Interpreting an Argument brought to evince That 't was not the Jesuits Interest to destroy a Prelatical Episcopal Constitution to be an admirable Address to the Lords and Commons to pull down Bishops and divide their Lands All which is done partly in his Preface and partly in the first Chapter of his great Book to shew himself an excellent Methodist But the whole is so little to the purpose that if he had not given an occasion to
this Extrinsecal Consideration sufficient to occasion a Difference that is Intrinsecal Moreover to return to his French Monarch Hath not the Experience of many a year assured us That when Monarchs design not the enlarging their own Monarchies they have done all they could to preserve other Monarchies An Aristocracy or a Democracy being things detestable in their eye 7. His answering the Letter of the Council by transcribing part of Sir Francis Walsingham's Letter as recorded in Dr. Burnet bing little to the purpose might have escaped my Consideration had it not been very necessary to suggest How prudently he overlook'd the great Principles on which the Queen grounded her proceedings the one being That Consciences cannot be forced but to be won and reduced by force of Truth with the aid of time and use of all good means of Instruction and Perswasion A Principle unto which if our Clergy would adhere it might have conduced very much to the Peace of the Church This I suppose is a sufficient Reply to the Dean's Substitute The Dissenters oppose Episcopacy and Ceremonies notwithstanding their Antiquity c. The Doctor 's Argument was here set forth to the greatest advantage of his Cause in his own words To which I reply'd That our not embracing Episcopacy c. does not advantage the Papist neither doth our rejecting it even when it pretends to so much Antiquity I having shewn that there was no such strength in their Argument of Antiquity if it fell short of an Absolutely Primitive or an Apostolical Antiquity as theirs really doth they not being able to shew in what part of the Scriptures their Dio●san Episcopacy is found it being consider'd as a Creature of Human make by many a Son of the Church yea and once by our great Doctor himself and it hath been prov'd by other hands unanswerably That there is no evidence for such an Episcopacy in the Church the first two hundred years for which reason Mr. Chillingworth's Argument shewing the vanity of such mens pretences about Antiquity that can ascend no higher than the fifth or fourth or third or second Age is it may be as pertinently urg'd as the little intimation of Mr. Ch's sense of the Antiquity of Episcopacy 'T is pleasant then to see with what pertness our Author hopes that our Enquirer will now grow so modest as not to cite Mr. Chil. any more against an Argument from Antiquity The other part of his Reply is as little to the purpose unless a declaiming against Protestant Arguments such as are too strong to receive an Answer be the most effectual way to ruine Popery 'T is true we reject the Popish pretences about Antiquity as futilous many Protestants in the number of which some Nonconformists may be listed having unanswerably proved Popery to be a Novelty However If Popery or Episcopacy be not agreeable to the Scriptures whatever their pretences are to Antiquity they will be found unworthy the consideration of a solid Divine and therefore because he sends me to Bishop J●wel Part 1. p. mihi 539 c. I 'll give the Reader an account of his sense against Harding The Truth of God saith the Bishop is neither further'd by the Face of Antiquity nor hinder'd by the Opinion of Novelty For oftentimes the thing that is New is condemned as Old and the thing that is indeed Old is condemned as New If Newness in Religion in all respects and every way were ill Christ would not have resembled his Doctrine to New Wine c. Arnobius saith The Authority of Religion must be weighed by God and not by Time It behoveth us to consider not upon what day but what things we begin to Worship The thing that is true is never too late Saint Augustine saies The Heathen say The Religion that was First cannot be False as if Antiquity and old Custom could prevail against the Truth The old Learned Father Tertullian saies Whatsoever thing savoureth against the Truth the same is an Heresie yea although it be a Custom never so Old c. This surely is the Protestant Doctrine whence to talk of Antiquity in order to the countenancing that in Religion which finds no favour from the Scriptures is but to advance the Papal Interest who have but little beside the pretence of Antiquity to support their Abominations SECT III. A search for the Schismatick A true state of the Difference between the Church of England and the Protestant Dissenter The Dissenter according to our Author's Notion clear'd from Schisme The Church of England found Guilty Some Remarks on several other passages in the Dean's Defence An Account of some of the Dean's Mistakes The Dissenter no friend to Popery The Conclusion 1. THAT our Divisions advance the Popish Designs is acknowledged But the 2. Enquiry is Who is the Faulty Divider It being the Faulty Divider alone who gives the Papist the advantage The great Enquiry then must be after the Faulty Divider Whether the Conformist or the Nonconformist be the Divider The state of the Case was given in the Enquiry p. 23. where the Principle on which the Dissenters proceed was laid down and improv'd this should have been consider'd by our Author but he was so prudent as to pass it by For which Reason without any Reflections on my Learned Adversary I must mind him of the state of the Controversie and shew wherein he hath exercised his Wisdom in leaping over what he could not handsomly remove out of the way In the Enquiry after the Faulty Divider I shewed wherein the Parties at variance agreed and wherein they differ'd 1. They agreed in those Points commonly called Docirinal or Substantial in contradistinction to lesser things about Worship and Church-Discipline c. They differ'd about what was in the Judgment of the Dissenter Sinful but in the Opinion of the Episcopal only Indifferent 'T is true the Episcopal represent us as a weak People whose Consciences as to those particulars are Erreneous that therefore we must cast off these erring Consciences and submit Our Reply is We seek Heaven for Counsel we study hard for the Truth read with the greatest Impartiality and Freedom the Discourses the Episcopal have written For we can solemnly and with much sincerity declare as in the presence of an Heart-searching God We would with the greatest chearfulness Conform to all the Impositions if we thought we could do it without sin That we are so peevish as to lose the Comforts of a good Benefice merely to gratifie an obstinate Humour if we are in danger of being biass'd one way more than another by carnal considerations 't is towards Conformity For if we conform we are freed from the reproaches and contempt of many from the continued fear of Imprisonment and other uncomfortable severities and in a fair way of abounding with the good things of this life for the supporting our selves and Families But if we conform not we are represented as Factious and Seditious expos'd to the Rage of every vile
afraid this is all that is attainaable in this Nation yea and in the Christian world whatever our Author may say to the contrary and that those that will have more shall have less 'T is with Christian Churches as 't is with some weakly constituted bodies if no violent remedies be used they may drill out for many years but if you will be tampering and nothing will satisfie you but a perfect health you will soon destroy them If Churches that have some defects may be endured God may have some worship and we may see some peace among Christians but if like Ecclesiastical Mountebanks we will be perpetually trying experiments upon sickly and diseased Churches we may disturb the peace of Christians destroy the Churches and leave few to call upon the name of God in the world What I have discoursed I think may with some probability be expected from Mr. H.'s design But can we expect so much from the design of this Gentleman Or is there the least shadow for it For my part I can see no such thing he must have better eyes or worse than I have that can see any advantage like to betide Protestants by uniting in a General Council or in a Patriarch or Pope ruling by the Canons thereof And yet I think this is that our Author would be at For he affirms That it is not enough or sufficient to Christian Unity that the Christians of one Nation or one Congregation be united among themselves unless they be united to the Catholique Church For if there be but one Church a whole Nation may be Schismatical as well as single persons c. Well then I am past all doubt that Protestants will never agree to the Canons of a General Council nor to the Government of a Patriarch or Pope according to those Canons and then they are all Schismaticks and if the Princes in whose Dominions they live can be prevailed withal to do it they are to be Proscribed Banished sent to the Galleys and Mines or be chastised at home by Axes and Halters And I think this is a very pious and charitable Design and becoming a Protestant Doctor and Son of the Church of England But by the way give me leave to add that whereas this Gentleman hath undertaken to vindicate the Learned Dean of St. Pauls from what Mr. Humfrey hath said against him concerning the Constitutive Head of this National Church I am shrewdly afraid that he has given up the Doctor 's Cause and left it to shift for it self as well as it can or rather asserted that of his Adversary The Doctor had said That we deny any need of a Constitutive Regent part or one Formal Ecclesiastical Head as essential to a National Church This Mr. H. confutes and this Author affirms and defends but grants a pars imperans subdita or a ruling and ruled part p. 567. Church-Governours united and governing by consent says he are the governing part Christian people in obedience to the Laws of our Saviour submitting to such Government are the ruled part and all this is true without a Constitutive Regent Head pag. ibid. This methinks looks strange That the Bishops by consent which consent they are obliged to by the Laws of Christ should be the pars imperans and yet not the Constitutive Regent Head is in my opinion a Paradox For I would fain learn what it is that makes a Constitutive Regent Head to any Body Is it not Right and Obligation to Rule Doth not this make Kings and Princes Constitutive Heads of their Principalities and Kingdoms And doth not this make Aristocracies and Democracies the essential Regent part of those Commonwealths over which they do preside Have the Bishops of this Nation Right and Obligation to rule all the Christian People in it This I think our Author will grant And how he will deny them to be the Constitutive Head of the National Church with any consistency of Reason I do not yet understand This Gentleman indeed says That though a National Church be one body yet ' t is not such a body as he Mr. B. describes nor can be according to its Original Constitution which differs from Secular Forms of Government by that ancient Church-Canon of our Saviour It shall not be so among you And then adds A National Church as governed by consent may be one body in an Ecclesiastical though not in a Civil Political sense That it cannot be a Body consisting of Head and Members in a Political sense according to Mr. B's description I do not find proved by that Church-Canon of our Saviour That the Ecclesiastical and Civil Forms of Government do differ I readily grant but are there no other Differences but such as are essential A Regent formal Head and Members is of the essence of political bodies and that is no body that is without them whatever ever this Gentleman says to the contrary Many other defects are consistent with the being of Political bodies but if they want a Head they are no Body The Church differs in many things from Civil Political bodies and particularly in this that it is not armed with civil power and jurisdiction p. 566. by which I suppose this Author means Coercive power But what then Hath the Church no Constitutive Head because it hath no Coercive power or because it cannot imprison fine and destroy its members Masters and Parents and Tutors can't do these things and yet most men think they are the Regent formal Heads of their Families children and pupils Well then against that marvellous Oracle of our Author That a National Church governed by consent may be a body in an Ecclesiastical tho' not in a civil political sense i. e. tho' it may be a Church yet it cannot be a Commonwealth or Kingdom I will advance this proposition That a National Church is a body in a political sense as well as in an Ecclesiastical or else it is no body at all and that according to his own doctrine And if he will defend the Deans cause he must write a book in his own confutation which I think he ought to do in revenge on himself that he hath hitherunto betrayed it as the Dr. has the Church of England's Our Author I remember somewhere calls Mr. Humfrey Mr. Baxter's Eccho when yet Mr. Humfrey's Answer to the Drs. Book came out before Mr. Baxter's When the Eccho now can be proved to go before the Voice or the Voice to follow the Eccho then shall the Deans determination of the question between him and them concerning the Constitutive Head of the National Church be held as unanswerable as this Gentleman affirms it in one place and as admirable as he cryes it up in another Having said thus much on the behalf of Mr. H. I shall add a few lines more before I return to the vindication of the Countrey Conformist The learned D. of St. Pauls had charged the Nonconformists with joining with the Papists for a general Toleration and