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cause_n	church_n	rome_n	schism_n	1,901	5	10.5828	5	false

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A54912	Occasionall discourses 1. Of worship and prayer to angells and saints. 2. Of purgatorie. 3. Of the Popes supremacie. 4. Of the succession of the Church. Had with Doctor Cosens, by word of mouth, or by writing from him. By Thomas Carre confessour of the English nunnerie at Paris. As also, An answer to a libell written by the said Doctor Cosens against the great Generall councell of Lateran under Innocentius the third, in the yeere of our Lord 1215. By Thomas Vane Doctor in Diuinity of Cambridge.	Carre, Thomas, 1599-1674.; Vane, Thomas, fl. 1652. Answer to a libell written by D. Cosens against the great Generall councell of Laterane under Pope Innocent the Third. aut	1646 (1646)	Wing P2272; ESTC R220529	96,496	286

celebrate together the Memories of Martyrs with a religious solemnitie Religious worship both to excite imitation Sacrifice to be made fellow partners in their merits and to be helped by their prayers yet so as we offer sacrifice to none of the Martyrs but to the verie God of Martyrs Altars though we erect Altars in the Memories of Martyrs c. If then saint Augustins mynde be made good by so many and so manifest places To what end should the D. come yet coldly dropping another seeming place out of the said saint or to what purpose should I answere it Howbeit lets yet heare him speake for euery ones full satisfaction S. Augustin l. 2. contra Ep. Parm. chap. 8. Cos. IF the Apostle had said you shall haue one for your Aduocate and I will pray the Father for your sinnes what good or faithfull Christian would haue endured it or accompted him one of Christs Apostles and not rather haue looked vpon him as vpon an Antichrist Car. I answer first that by Aduocate which is indeed in the text Mediatour the D. will either haue S. Augustine after the Apostle to meane the Principall and immediate Mediatour Mediatour which if the Apostle had assumed to himselfe he had iustly bene looked vpon by all good Christians not as an Apostle of Christ but rather as an Antichrist or els the mediate lesse principall and impropre Mediatour which he must meane if he would haue the place to make any thing against a Catholike and to his purpose And such certainly the Apostle both might be and was and yet is farre from incurring the censure of an Antichrist sith S. Iohn was doubtlessy a Bishop and euery Bishop if we beleeue S. Paul Heb. 5. is taken from among men and is ordayned for men in things pertayning to God that he may offer both guifts and sacrifices for sinne which is to be some kind of Mediatour or Aduocate representing their miseries pleading their cause and mediating their reconcilement to God by Christ the onely properly true Mediatour of Redemptiō In this kind of Mediation are the Priests employed saith Ioel c. 2. Betweene the porch and the Altar shall the Priests the Ministers of our Lord weepe and shall say spare ô Lord spare thy people and giue not thyne inheritance into reproach that the heathens should rule ouer them and thus finally concludes S. Aug. in this place doe all Christiā men commend themselues mutually to one anothers prayers So farre is he from speaking against mediating in this second sense or consequently from apprehending that derogatorie to Christ our prime Mediatour I answere secondly that here againe is a whole clause left out whence the clearing of the difficultie was to be demanded to witt As Parmenianus in a certaine place put a Bishop Mediatour betwixt the people and God And how did Parmenianus put Bishops Mediatours c marrie as purifiers and iustifiers of men by their owne vertue and iustice since they the Donatists allowed vertue and effect to the Sacraments and Sacrifice onely according to the qualitie of the Minister or offerer which was indeed to assume to themselues the proper Mediation of Christ Iesus who onely of himselfe is able to appease Gods wrath against sinne as being our principal immediate primarie Mediatour and indeed our onely Mediatour of Redemption who by the right of his owne merits obtaynes grace forvs the others onely by him and by his merits Such a Mediatour it is manifest S. Aug. spake of in this place and such we admitt none but Christ alone who spake against the pride of the Donatists which forsoothe would haue no spott or vice to be amongst them or their fellowes as saith S. Augustine in the chap. immediately before which was a prerogatiue due to Christ alone who was that one and true Mediatour for whō none prayed he prayed for all as saith the said St. in this 8. chap. In fine one of S. Augustines principall designes in this place was to proue against the Donatists that they iniustly separated themselues from the Catholike Church vpon pretence of the wickednes of the Bishops and priests in the Church for dato that it were so indeed yet were that no iust cause of a diuision or schisme since be the Bishops and priests what they will we ought alwayes to be secure of one Mediatour Iesus Christ the iust whom we haue an Aduocate with the Father and he is the propitiation for our sinnes Hence I beleeue the weakest may obserue that it is not fairely done of Mr. Cos. to make vse of the mistaken sense of an obscure passage in an Authour to stagger the vnlettered who are not able to examine him while being examined he beares no shew of difficultie along with him COSENS S Irenaeus against Heresies 2. booke chap. 57. THe Church Catholike doth not inuocate Angels bnt purely calleth vpon God and Christ CARRE Still something is left out most important to the clearing of the difficultie S. Irenaeus his words are these Neither doth it to witt the vniuersall Church doc any thing by Angelicall inuocations nor by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie these words by incantations nor by any other wicked curiositie are omitted but cleanely purely and manifestly directing prayers to God c. Now what doe these words incantations and wicked curiosities lead vs to but the old heretiques to witt the Symonians the Marcites Meandriās and Carpocratiās against whom he had spoken shewing here that the Catholike Church in working her true miracles did not vse their proceeding in working false ones which they did by the inuocation and superstitious naming of Angels to whom they ascribed the creation of the world by incantations and spells whereby they deluded many especially poore women robbing them of fortunes and honour with the exercise of innumerable villanies as is to be seene in the 9. 20. 22. and and 24. chapters of his first booke but by fasting and prayer performed chastely purely openly and without hope of lucre His words are That vniuerfall Church which is in euery place demanding by fasting and much prayer the spirit os life returned to the dead man who was giuen to the Saints prayers What is here yet I pray against the inuocation of Saints Cos. Origene against Celsus l. 5. ALl prayers are to be sent and offered vp vnto God by our Angel and high Priest who is the Prince and Lord of all Angels Nor will our Religion permitt vs to supplicate or pray to any other whom so euer Car. Answer First your choyce herein is not verie happie if you should make him stand vp alone against all antiquitie ingenous men would not esteeme his word were sufficient caution after his so many errours yea euen in this place where he destroyes Christs Diuinitie making him inferiour to his heauenly Father Howbeit if you admitt his authoritie vpon this matter so doe I and thus I produce him speaking of the Angels in the same place O

and bloud of our Lord God Iesus Christ our Redeemer and be lyable to a strict punishment at the day of Doome If vpon the 4. booke 34. Chap. there he excommunicates or suspends from Masse the Bishop of Salonitane who was made without his knowledge against custome as he complaynes The Bishop of the Cittie of Salonitane was ordered without my owne or my Nuncius his knowledge wherein a thing was done which neuer happened vnder the reigne of any the preceeding Princes And concludes with a couered reflection or reprehension against the Emperours themselues And saith he if the causes of Bishops who are committed to me are carried with my most pious Lords by syding and the supportation of others what doe I vnhappie man in this Church But I giue thankes to God and impute it to myne owne sinnes that my Bishops should contemne me and flie to secular Iudges for refuge against me In conclusion fearing to trespasse vpon the patience of my gentle Reader I omitt a number of other cleare passages and appeale to euery Christian heart whether it be not euen industriously to endeauour ones owne losse to dwell vpon the words of an Authour which manifestly contayne some doubtfull and odious sense and thence force the conclusion to what our passion aymes at without going on with the same Authour to heare him out and to take along with vs what he plainely positiuely and frequently deliuers vpon the same subiect It is true sainct Gregorie cryes out against the proud title of vniuersall Bishop yet speakes he not in a limited sense and points he not particularly at what he feares in it saying Least all priests should be thereby depriued of due honour Least he should endeauour to be called Bishop alone c. as I haue intimated from himselfe aboue pag. 123. But is it not also true that he more then any such is God's prouidence preaches proclaimes practises the power of supreme Head of the vniuersall Church Tearming the Sea of Rome THE HEAD OF ALL THE CHVRCHES NOT KNOWING WHAT BISHOP IS NOT SVBIECT TO IT WHERE PETER WAS APPOINTED BY ALMIGHTY GOD TO BE OVER ALL THE CHVRCH THAT NO COMMVNION IS LAWFVLL WHICH THAT CHVRCH ADMITTS NOT. THAT IT IS THE MOTHER CHVRCH THAT THEY ARE PERVERSE MEN WHO WILL NOT BE SVBIECT TO IT Will you heare these propositions secōded and confirmed by his publique practices which suffer no glosse Is it not he who gouernes and giues lawes to Europe Afrique and Asia Doth he not order all the Bishops of England to be vnder saint Augustine Doth he not sende the Pall to Auston in France and by the fauour of his authoritie rancke it next to Lions Doth he not in Spayne depriue a Bishop ordered against the Canons of Priesthoode and all Ecclesiasticall ministerie depriuing the Bishops too who consecrated him of the body and blood of Christ c. Doth he not in Afrique command Columbus to vse canonicall rigour against Bishop Victor if Donadeus Deacon whom he Victor had degraded had right on his side Doth he not in Greece by the authoritie of Blessed Peter prince of the Apostles disannulle what the Bishop of Iustiniana Prima had done and depriue him of the holy Communion for thirtie dayes Doth he not professe openly that the cause of the Patriarch of Constantinople though the Emperour resided there was according to the Canons deuolued to the Sea of Rome and was ended by his SENTENCE If we will then heare Gregorie le ts heare him throughly If we fly to his authoritie let vs stand to his verdict Let not his word be taken where it pleases you and reiected where it displeases you for so I shall haue cause to make vse of a passage of saint Augustine against the Manichees in in Ep. Fundam and say Doe you conceiue me a foole in such a measure that without giuing any reason at all I should beleeue what you please and what you please not I should not beleeue Noe that were not to deale fairely and ingenuously If Gregorie must be our vmpire LET ROME BE TEARMED THE HEAD OF ALL THE CHVRCHES as he stiles it and exercise iurisdiction ouer all the Churches as we haue seene him practise and let not VNIVERSALL BISHOP which we cannot or will not vnderstand aright stand betwixt vs as a wall of diuision a seed-plott of irreconcileable discorde The fortunes of Greece depend not vpon it nor Christian Beatitude If it signifie head or chiefe-bishop of the VNIVERSALL CHVRCH it is but ROMES DVE if it would entayle the whole right power and dignitie of Bishop vpon Rome alone Rome reiects it as sacrilegious and blasphemous and so doe we Mr Cosens his third Mediū or argument was that appeales to Rome were prohibited in the Mileuitane and 6th Carthaginean Councell and that vnder paine of excommunication Ergo the Africans did not acknowledge the Supremacie of Rome Carre My answer was that for minor or lesser persons or minor and lesser causes appeales were prohibited I granted it That Appeales were forbidden for Maior or greater persons at least in maior or greater Causes I denyed it And consequently I denyed the Conclusion intended to witt Ergo the Africans did not acknowledge the Supremacie of Rome And the reason is because the Supremacie of Rome is discerned and exercised in greater causes as in matter of faith or the generall gouernment of the vniuersall Church For such they precisely are which Rome did alwayes challenge as properly belonging to her owne iurisdiction Heare in confirmation of this what saint Gregorie writes to the Bishop of Iustiniana prima l. 2. ep 46. If any cause of faith or crime or Money-matter be commenced against our fellow-Bishop Adrian Bishop of Thebes if it be a thing of little importance let it be iudged by our Nuncio'es Responsales who are or shall be in the Royall Cittie Constantinople but if it be a matter of weight let it be referred hither to the Sea Apostolique And such Africa neuer denyed to Rome to witt aknowledgment of iurisdiction and subiection in GREATER CAVSES but contrarily had frequent recourse to the Popes of Rome with due submission and aknowledgment Yea the verie Fathers to the nūber of 61. of the Mileuitane Councell wrote to Pope Innocētius in these tearmes Wheras God by his speciall grace hath placed thee in the Sea Apostolique and hath giuen vs thee such an one talē one so qualified or so good in our dayes that it would rather be imputed to our negligence if we should conceale from thy veneration what we iudge ought to be represented for the Churches aduantage then that we neede to apprehend that thou wouldst esteeme it importune or otherwise slight the same we beseech thee daigne to employe thy pastorall care in the great dangers of the infirme members of Christ for a new and most pernicious heresie c. Againe in the same place while we intimate these things to thy Apostolicall heart we neede not vse many words to exaggerate so great

an impietie which we doubt not thou wilt so deeply resent that thou wilt not be able to contayne thy selfe from correcting them c. Againe But we conceiue by the mercy of our Lord God Christ Iesus who daignes both to direct thy counsells and to heare thy prayers that they who hold those peruerse and pernicious tenets will easily yeeld to the authoritie of thy Holinesse which is drawne from the authoritie of the holy Scriptures And in the end of the same Epistle We addressed these writings to your Holinesse from the Councell of Numidia to witt from Mileui imitating our fellow-Bishops of the Prouince of Carthage who we perceiue haue written vpon this subiect to the sea Apostolike which sea Apostolike thou a blessed man dost illustrate or which your holinesse doth gouerne quam Beatus illustras Thus did the whole Councell deferre to the Sea Apostolike Heare now how this respect is receiued by Pope Innocentius With care saith he and congruitie did you exhibite respect to the Apostolicall honour to his honour I say who besides what was without had the solicitude of all the Churches in seeking what sentence you are to hold in points of great difficultie following therein the forme of the ancient rule which you know the whole world obserues with me Behold how Pope Innocentius ascribes the honour done to himselfe to S. Peter as to one who had the care of all the Churches and declares that in hauing recourse to him to know what they should hold in points of GREAT DIFFICVLTIE they doe but follow the ancient forme of proceeding which as he saith they knew all the world obserues Heare againe S. Augustine confirming the same What answer could that holy man returne to the Africane Councells but that which the Apostolicall Sea and Romane Church holds of old perseuerantly with the rest And what forme of proceeding did they amongst the rest expresse Marrie that they were to betake themselues to his Pastorall care in the great dangers of the infirme members of Christ as to condemne Heresie c. That they were to intimate such things to his Apostolicall heart to haue them corrected That the authoritie of his Holinesse is drawne out of the authoritie of holy Scripture Is this to misacknowledge or deny the supremacie of Rome No let onely this forme of proceeding be obserued this correction endured this authoritie be acknowledged and we shall thus farre most willingly ioyne hands and make the verie Councells which are alleadged against vs the modell of our practice So farre falls Mr. C. short in his proofes drawen from the Councell of Mileui Will you heare how much better he speeds in the 6. Councell of Carthage where it is pretended that appeales to Rome were prohibited yea euen in Maior persons too as in Bishops Metropolitans c Certes if that Councell be well looked into and with an indifferent eye it will be found so farre from concluding against the supremacie that it doth absolutely conuince the truth of it for First what was there said was said against the manner and frequencie not against the right of Appeales as manifestly appeares by the Epist of the Africane Bishops to Pope Celestine in these tearmes Conc. A●●ri● c. 15. The office of a due salutation being premised we beseech you with our whole affection that you doe not easily admitt such as come from hence to your eares and that you would no more receiue to Communion such as we may haue excommunicated c. let not then those who were barred from Communion in their owne Prouinces appeare to be restored to Communion by your Holinesse with precipitation and otherwise then is meete Behold the companie of the Bishops of Afrike become humble suitors to the Bishop of Rome and consequently acknowledge his iurisdiction otherwise it were a most sillie part to sue to him in those tearmes not that he would not admitt any appeales at all but not easily admitt them c Not that he would restore none at all to Communion c. which yet they should haue done and haue denyed he had any such authoritie had they opposed the supremacie but onely that it should not appeare that they were reslored with preoipitation and otherwise then was meete alwayes presupposing such a power Secondly what was said was said in point of Minor causes as in ciuill pecuniarie scandalous and criminall matters c. such as was that of Apiarius an Africane Priest and that of Anthonie Bishop of Fussal both which appealed to Rome and their Appeales were there admitted to proue or disproue which productions of witnesses would often be necessarie to witt people of diuers sexes and ages litle fitt to vndergoe the difficulties of such a voyage to say nothing of the charges or other impediments as is expressed in the Epist 105. of the Africane Councell to the Pope of Rome Celestine Thirdly whatsoeuer was said nothing was done what euer was proposed nothing was enacted or decreed against the right of Maior persons to witt Bishops in their appeales to Rome who kept their priuileges according to that of S. Augustin speaking of Ceoilianus Archbishop of Carthage deposed by a Councell of seauentie Bishops saying He might haue contemned the conspiring multitude of his enemyes because he saw himselfe in communion with the Church of Rome by Communicatory letters wherin the Principality or soueraigntie of the Sea Apost did alwayes flourish where he was prepared to pleade his cause Nay what was euen proposed too was done dependently of what should be discouered in the Councell of Nice which they had sent for to the Patriarchall Churches in the East and that with all possible submission to the Church of Rome the while witnesse their owne words as they are put downe in the said 6. Councell In Ep. ab omni Concilio Africano ad Bonifacium Vrbis Romae Episcopum in answer to the propositions contayned in the Monitorie sent to them frō Pope Zozimus by Faustinus Bishop his Legate c. Wherein he recommended to them the obseruance of the 7. canon of the Councell of Sardis indeede Conc. Sardis cap. 7. but vnder the name of the Councell of Nice it being esteemed an appendix of this touching Appeales to Rome as followes But if he to witt a Bishop iudged and deposed by the Assemblie of Bishops of the same Countrie who demands to haue a new hearing of his cause haue by petition moued the Bishop of Rome to send a Priest è latere suo commonly called Legatus à latere it shall be in the Bishops power to doe what he will and what he iudges fitt And if he decree to send some endowed with his authoritie from whom they are sent who being present with the Bishops should iudge it is in his free disposition And if he beleeue the Bishops sufficient to put a period to the affaire he shall doe what in his owne most wise counsell he iudges behoofull Now the Africane Bishops not finding this in

obserued where he exclaimes against that pompous title of vniuersall saying It is euident to all who know the Gospell that the care of the whole Church is committed by our Lords voyce to S. Peter the Apostle the Prince of all the Apostles for to him it was said Peter doest thou loue me feede my sheepe c. beholde he receiues the keyes of the kingdome of heauen the power of binding ad loosing is giuen to him the care and principalitie principatus soueraigntie or dominion of the whole Church is committed to him and yet he is not called vniuersall Apostle OBSERVATION Receiue from saint Gregories owne mouth then that the Sea Apostolique is the head of all the Churches That all Bishops found in fault are subiect to it That Peter was placed ouer all the Churches That the Roman Church is the head of all the Churches That it is knowne to all that know the Gospell that the Care of the whole Church is committed by our Lord himselfe to Peter the Prince of all the Apostles and that yet he is not called vniuersall Apostle What other thing is this I pray then to crye out with a lowde voyce and to make open demonstration to all the world that while he exclaymes against the title of vniuersall Bishop he refuses not the headship of all the Churches but professeth to haue iurisdiction and superintendencie ouer all the other Bishops Archbishops and Patriarkes as doth partly appeare by what I haue alreadie cited out of him and more fully shall yet appeare in my ensuing discourse THE II. TITLE WHEREBY saint Gregorie makes good the supremacie is The exercice of such power all ouer the Christian world FIRST ouer the Bishops of Europe l. 12. Ep. 15. to s. Aug. in particular ouer the Bishops of England Let the Bishop of Yorke order 12. Bishops and enioy the honour of a Metropolitane but let all the Bishops of England be subiect to thy brotherhood Secondly l. 7. Ep. 112. ouer the Bishops of France Granting the vse of the Pall to the Bishop of Auston he saith And withall we perceiued we were to grant that the Church of the cittie of Auston should be after the Church of Lions and to challenge to it selfe this place and rancke by the fauour indulgentia of our Authoritie Thirdly ouer the Bishops of Spayne saying Let him who presumed while the innocent Bishop was yet aliue to be ordered in his Church against the Canons being depriued of priesthood be cast out of all Church-ministerie and withall let him be kept in safe custodie or els be sent vnto vs. Let the Bishops who ordered him being depriued of the Communion of the body and bloud of our Lord for the space of six monthes be appointed to doe pennance in a Monasterie Fourthly l. 7. Ep. 32. Ouer the Bishops of Africa In particular thus to the Bishop of Carthage By louing the Sea Apostolique you baue recourse to the source of your office or dignitie knowing whence priestly ordination had its beginning in Africa Againe l. 10. Ep. 2. Writing to Columbus a Bishop of Numidie c. he saith You are diligently to examine all the contents of his Petition to witt Donadeus Deacon degraded by Victor a Bishop of Numidie and if his complaint be accompanied with truth let canonicall rigour be vsed against his Bishop Victor Fiftly l. 2. Ep. 6. Ouer the Bishops of Greece In particular ouer Iohn Bishop of Iustiniana prima in these words As for the present hauing first disannulled and made of no effect the Decrees of thy sentence we decree by the authoritie of Blessed Peter Prince of the Apostles that for thirtie dayes space thou shalt be depriued of the holy Communion that with verie great pennance and teares thou mayst preuayle with Almightie God to pardon thy so great an excesse And if we shall come to perceiue that thou doest coldly performe our sentence know that then not barely thy iniustice but the contumacie also of thy brotherhood shall be more seuerely punished Againe l. 5. Ep. 7. Writing to the Bishops of Epirus he saith Know that we haue sent a Pall to Andrew our brother and fellow-Bishop and haue graunted or confirmed him all the priuiledges which our predecessours conferred vpon his Againe Writing to Iohn Bishop of Corinth l. 4. Ep. 51. touching Secūdinus a Bishop whom he had deputed to examine and depose one Anastasius Bishop quam causam ei examinandam iniunximus he saith And because in that sentence whereby it is euident that the fore named Anastasius was iustly condemned and deposed our fore-mentioned brother and fellow Bishop so punished certaine persons that he reserued them to our arbitrimēet And a litle after speaking of another we pardō him this fault and we appoint that he should be receiued in his rancke and place Againe We will haue them to witt Euphemius and Thomas to remayne deposed as they are and we decree that they shall neuer more be receiued into holy orders vnder what pretext of excuse soeuer Sixtly l. 5. Ep. 14. Writing to Marinianus Bishop of Rauenna vpō the difference which was betweene his Church and Claudius the Abbot he saith And doe not you your selfe know that in the cause which was agitated by Iohn Priest against Iohn of Constantinople our brother and fellow Bishop recourse was made to the Sea Apostolique following the Canons and the cause was ended definita by our Sentence And thence saint Gregorie frames an argument a fortiori in these words which immediatly follow If therfore the cause be deuolued to our knowledge euen from the Cittie where the Prince to witt the Emperour resides how much more is the busines which is against you to be determined or iudged here the trueth being knowne The like speeches bearing a face of authoritie with them are all his Epistles so full of as may with ease be seene in Dr. Sander's visible Monarchie that who would take the paines could hardly light vpon an Epistle where he should not meete with thē If he should looke vpon the 11. booke and 10. Epistle he would finde him instile the kings his sonnes saying according to the writing of our sonnes the most excellent kings c. And in the end of the same Ep. And we command that all these things shall be obserued for euer which are contayned in this our Decree as well by thy selfe he speakes to a certaine Abbot as by all those who shall succeede in thy place and rancke or whom it may otherwise concerne And if any king Priest Iudge or secular person hauing knowledge of this our Constitution shall offer to oppose it let him be depriued of his honour and dignitie and acknowledge that he stands guiltie of the iniquitie committed in the sight of the diuine iudgement And vnlesse he doe either restore the things which he wickedly tooke away or expiate his iniquitie with the teares of worthy repentance let him be kept from the most sacred body