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A00664 An ansvvere to VVilliam Alablaster [sic] his motiues. By Roger Fenton preacher of Grayes Inne Fenton, Roger, 1565-1616.; Alabaster, William, 1567-1640. 1599 (1599) STC 10799; ESTC S101956 37,337 52

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which that ancient writer so approued by you doth auere Solus sufficit ad omnia satis superque all reformations of the Church whatsoeuer haue been since or hereafter shalbe must come vnder the name of meere restitutions without addition not instituting any new doctrine but restoring the ancient not creating a new Church as you fondly imagine but reducing the old vnto the primitiue Therefore in this kind there is no need of miracles or prodigious signes seeing our reformers bring no new reuelations of their owne but only make appeales to the iudgement of the primitiue Church desire credit of others no further then they giue euidence of argument drawne from such grounds as be receiued of all hands Then seeing their proceedings be ordinarie what extraordinarie wonders are to be expected Neither was it their desire motion in this reformatiō that the present visible Church should fly the world and leaue her kingdome royaltie but onely this y t it should be purged because reason telleth vs experience hath proued it that the visible Church is not al spirit but some flesh though she be informed by the holy Ghost in her holy and generall assemblies yet she consisteth likewise of earthly fraile sinful men therfore she must of necessity gather some dust in time grow corrupt if she do not clense refine her selfe Wherupon motion was made to the commanders of the Church for the reformation of certaine abuses which being crept in had gotten a head and were growne to that pitch that they became burdensome to the consciences of religious men This complaint being not harkened vnto they perswaded themselues that the backwardnes of their brethren could not be to them a sufficient excuse not to reforme themselues For this cause they protested a separation from their fellowship and communion in those points vntill such time as it should please God to moue their minds so to refine themselues from those corruptions as there might insue conformitie a thing wished and praied for with sighes not to be expressed So that the strength of this your Motiue which makes Martin Luther his fellowes seeme so odious vnto you is resolued into these two questions First whether in his time there were abuses in the Church that required a reformation Secondly reformation being denied vnhoped for whether they were abuses of that nature degree as did bind the conscience of true catholikes not to cōmunicate with others in them Which two points if they be true they cleer our reformers frō all slander suspitiō either of heresy or schisme vntil you haue proued them false this the like generall motiues to this purpose be mere shadows without substance of no value or force at all THE SIXTH MOTIVE AS the cause is the paterne of the effects vpon which ground Saint Paul from the vnitie of Gods Church buildeth the vnitie of faith so may we go backwards from the defference of effects to denie the affinitie of the cause and from the impossibilitie of vnion in faith take away the possibilitie of dependance vpon God Such is the religion of the protestants which hath no certaine principle of vnitie and therefore lacketh the cognisance whereby true religion is knowne For where there is not an infallible authoritie which doth iudge and decide controuersies by remouing all actions of doubt and reply and vnto which absolute obedience is tied there must needs be varietie of iudgements and opinions which cannot be tied in one knot For all vnitie in particulars proceedeth from the vnitie of some cause wherein all agree But there is no such infallible authoritie the iudge of controuersies besides the voice of the Church which the protestants either put altogether to silence or else obey so farre as they please For the scriptures whom they haue erected to be iudges as rebels that put downe all iudges and pretend to be ruled onely by the law cannot alone supply this place to take away all occasionof controuersies And if there were no other argument their owne irreconcilable quarrels in so manifold differences among themselues might suffice to stop their mouthes herein For as diuers parcels of silke of deeper or lighter ground dipped by the Dyar in the same liquour drink in a seuerall tincture of colour according to their former varietie so they that diue in the letter of the holy scripture according as their iudgements are before stained with preiudice of one or other opinion come forth againe not in vnity of minds but in the same differences as they went in more or lesse Or as in the miracle of tongues giuen to the Apostles when many auditors of diuers languages came to heare them although the same men could speake no more but one idiome at once yet the seuerall auditours comprehended them as if they had spoken in the proprietie of their speech so when many of diuers languages in religion come to heare some one of the Apostles speaking in the scripture although the author vse onely the voice of the truth yet euery sundrie faction doth conceiue him as speaking in the seuerall confusion of their opinions Neither can they comfort themselues with any hope to see these diuerse opinions wound vp in one confession For as the vnitie in conclusion in logick cannot be without the vnitie of the medium so they cannot meete in that middle way which should bring them into peace able cōposition vnlesse they returne to the Church For all grant there is no way to accomplish it without a councell but who shall call it when there is none whom they all obey How many factions shall assemble out of what sect shall the president be chosen what number of suffrages shall there be on euery side what rule shall bee allowed for the interpretation of the scriptures And if all this were by a dreame imagined yet the authoritie of the Canons and conclusions shall not be so authenticall but that any priuate head may refuse it if in his owne singularity he thinke it disagreeing from the scripture so desperate is the possibilitie of vnion among them that hope which imagineth impossible things cannot possibly imagine it ANSVVERE AS euery defect and imperfection tendeth vnto dissolution so the good estate of euery bodie aswell politicke and mistical as natural doth consist in the vnity of the whole harmonie of the parts amongst themselues Therfore seeing the band of vnitie knitting many members into one whole maketh an entire body that societie is of all others conceiued to be most absolute which hath attained to the greatest perfection of vnitie Which kind of reason moued the Philosopher to giue the preeminence to a Monarchy before other simple formes So the Apostle in the place whence you take your rise from the vnitie of Gods Church doth build the vnity of faith as also the vnity of spirit in the bond of peace vrging a preseruation and increase of the same as a thing most perfecting the
to the stoole ANSVVERE IF you respect repentance good works I wonder you regard christian charitie no more but so apparantly to slaunder vs against the generall voice of our writers who protest themselues herein greatly iniuried and vrge as great necessitie of good workes as you doe or can desire secluding them onely from the act of iustification not from the meanes of securitie euery where teaching that the keeping of a good conscience in true faith doth worke in vs that certaintie of hope for saluatiō which is the rest only peace of conscience in this life Notwithstanding whē we haue done what we can in Gods seruice since we are vnprofitable and our workes vnperfect it is not any way safe to trust in our selues or rely vpon them but onely in Gods mercies and Christes merits in which poynt Bellarmine himselfe doth most ingenuously ioyne with vs. Tutissimum tamen est propter incertitudinem propriae iustitiae periculum inanis gloriae totam fiduciam nō in opeirbus nostris sed sola dei misericordia benignitate reponere This is all I can find in our writers that giues any shadow of occasion to this vncharitable slaunder which in the iudgment of a cleere minde will easily vanish as a miste before the sunne Your simile I confesse is too strong and may easily ouercome me and modestie biddes me spare to encounter it MOTIVE THese are the two fallacies whereupon Luther built his rebellion and wherein all the heresies of our time conspire though otherwise at difference with themselues for there can bee no fitter baites to beguile simple men then opinion and sensuall men then ease because euery one lieth open to decay in his owne vices ANSVVERE THus are you taken in the snare which you layd for others For the power of God in our ministery being to encounter with those two vglie monsters of nature ignorance and sensualitie it is the ende of our whole profession both to make the simple wise to saluation in such pointes as be meete for their conceites and expedient for their seuerall callings as also to conuert the sensuall vnto newnes and holines of life Thus we professe and thus we teach neither feeding the one kinde with opinions nor promising ease vnto the other Therefore if you either perceiuing some loosenes of life in the laitie doe ascribe that to our doctrine or obseruing the due execution of this ministerie to be wanting in some of the clergie shall therfore condemne the whole do ye not plainly see the two grād fallacies wherein you beguile your selfe and whereupon you haue built this Apostasie THE FOVRTH MOTIVE AMongst many loadstones that which hath the preeminence of vertue in proportionable distance winneth the Iron from all the rest So Christ being lifted vp in the abasing of his passion promised by his attractiue vertue to draw vnto his seruice all men from all religions For what rebellion of nature cannot he pacifie vnto the vnitie of Faith when he pleaseth to come within compasse that hath vnited humane nature into Gods hypostaticall vnion Therefore to gather vp the effect as a threed to leade to the cause the greatest multitude in consent of communion among the diuerse parcels and rentes of those that beare the liuery of Christ his name is a sufficient demonstration of the true and naturall loadstone which must of necessitie drawe more vnto it then the rest because it effecteth by his owne vertue when all the rest worke onely by the touch thereof ANSVVERE THat I may the better finde you in this discourse I will expresse your meaning more distinctly which you carie in a cloud of generalities the easier to deceaue For when I enquire what kinde of beleeuers they be whose number you endeuour so far to enlarge and extend beyond others me thinkes the resemblance of the loadstone and that attractiue vertue of Christ his passion out of the 12. of Iohn doe import not so much an outward calling to the profession of the catholike faith which makes a visible Church as an inward and effectuall drawing to the power thereof proper onely to the liuely members who make a mystical and inuisible bodie not discernable in the eye of man yet so it falleth out that this number of elect and sanctified persons is not by you intended For many are called into the visible Church but few chosen into the number of the Saintes many clensed in the fount from originall leprosie scarce the tithe shewing due thankfulnesse in the residue of their liues Wherevpon that I may take you right I vnderstand you meane a visible companie of catholikes that is professors of the Apostolike faith And then must you shake hands with Christ his attractiue vertue resembled by your loadstone which is taken in the former kinde to signifie not so much the outward calling of men into the visible Church as an inward and forcible drawing of them into the fellowship of the sonnes of God And so hath Christ and doth still by his death and passion draw vnto him men of all conditions from all the quarters of the world Further if you take that visible companie of professours at the largest for all those that beare the liuerie of Christ his name vnder which liuerie saith Barnard many doe seruice vnto Antichrist then doe you make both the Church of Rome and ours to be members of one visible Church al professing one Lord that is Christ giuing the name to all christians Secondly one baptisme without rebaptization of either hand Thirdly one faith as it is summarily premised in the counsell of Trent and professed dayly in our Church Thus far be we knit togither by a triple bande of vnitie which is not easily broken And so farre is your note of multitude common to both and therefore not to the purpose of this motiue It remaines then in the third place that the middle way be taken twixt these two vnderstanding the companie of sounde beleeuers and orthodoxall professors of Christs truth for in these three seuerall sences is the Church taken by diuers The first that is the companie of Saints is too narrow for your purpose the second containing all professors is too large and for the third that is the companie onely of sound and orthodoxall professors if you proue that that is and euermore hath been preeminent for multitude euen in persecution and inundations of heresies I shall much meruaile MOTIVE THis populous inheritance of such as professe the communion of his doctrine was giuen him as a royaltie in the 2. Psalme And after his resurrection he sent his Apostles to take possession of the dowrie of his Church from Hierusalem vnto the ends of the world and the prophets who from their high tower of speculation might ouerlooke more then the compasse of 2000. yeares and therefore tooke the draught of Christ his kingdome could perceiue no signe more glorious and visible then a multitude reaching from the East to the
principally we appeale to scripture as to the certaine rule and ground of all the rest yet for the true sense and interpretation of scripture we confirme our selues by the consent of the learned in the Church by the analogie of faith and common grounds of beliefe deliuered by the Church and collected by the ancient fathers out of the most plaine vndoubted scriptures by the generall consent of antiquitie by prouinciall and generall counsels which at this day we wish and heartily pray might be called without partialitie but our complaint is the same with Saint Basil and Gregorie Nazianzene in their time that a generall counsell cannot be called with indifferencie in the throng of so many quarrels especially since the head of the strongest faction must needs be possessed with a preiudice in his owne cause These meanes of finding and maintaining the truth of God though taken seuerally they may seeme the weaker yet all or most of them ioyned together are sufficient to rest the consciences of true Catholikes To the perfection where of we labour to attaine forgetting that which is behind and endeuouring to that which is before THE SEVENTH MOTIVE THe diuine prouidence which as a center indifferently extendeth it selfe to the vniuersalitie of things hath allowed euerie creature common strength to preserue his being such is in liuelesse bodies their place or motion or qualities in vegetable their instinct of distinguishing their proper aliment in beastes the iudgement of sense and priuiledge of nature and in man an apprehension censure and proiect from the intelligence of sensible occurrents both in naturall and ciuill bodies The same wisedome and bountie which hath been so enlarged to his seruants cannot be straightned to his children and therefore it is aboue all doubt that he hath set some plaine and certaine direction in his Church both of discerning of heresies when they arise and of auoiding the infection of them neither hath the holy Ghost failed herein for because all the dangers of the Church were chiefly to come from heretikes hee hath drawne in the scripture as in a table the picture of heretikes their apparrell fashion speech and cariage whereby they might be noted vpon the first apparance But among all other Items none is oftener giuen for a marke to discerne them then their difference of doctrine from the former tradition and custome There shall be false teachers which shall bring in heresies 2. Peter 2. 1. If any man come to you and bring not this doctrine Iohn 2. 10. And the contradiction of Corah 1. Tim. 8. If any man teach other wise then that which you haue heard from the beginning Let it abide in you fight for the faith once deliuered keepe the traditions you are taught And if any man would fashion in his wishes a plaine and sensible rule whereby the thickest conceits that are not able to goe betweene truth and errour in the loosest controuersies might determine any question there cannot bee a better fancied then this difference of teaching and innouation of doctrine which he that vnderstandeth not the sense may perceiue by the words the soundes and contradiction of former opinion as men that are skilfull in musicall proportions and being acquainted through vse of song can easily iudge if any chaunge be made therein By this were all heresies apprehended at the first and also arraigned So that Stephanus Bishop of Rome ouerthrew the decree of the councell of Carthage for rebaptising wherein Saint Cyprian was president with his owne rule Ecclesia Dei non habet talem consuetudinem So Luther and Zwinglius and the rest of that crewe were at the first appearing branded by this note for heretikes ANSVVERE THis is the same fallacie with the former applyed another way for as in the last motiue you haue assured the Church of an infallible meanes to define all truth so in this you secure her members likewise of a power with facilitie to discerne heretikes by argument drawen from the generall prouidence of God extending it selfe to all creatures but most of all to his children In which ground there is some truth but entwined with some errours For as in other creatures the diuine prouidence is verie bountifull for the preseruation of their seuerall beings against iniurie and daungers yet for all the power of nature in senceles things or the iudgment of sense in the vnreasonable or the benefit of reason in men they be notwithstanding oftentimes subiect aswell to the pray and violence as to the crafte and deceit of others so is it in the professours of christian faith vnto whom God hath reuealed a meanes to preserue their spirituall being in this state militant more certaine and far more sufficient for them then he hath giuen to any other yet not with such ease facilitie to be enioyed as in this motiue you indeuour to perswade For albeit the Scripture hath not been wanting in describing heretikes so plainly as by way of prophecie could possibly be expressed yet are they not thereby presently knowne vpon the first appearance nor can the thickest conceites so easily iudge of them If you take your markes as you say from their apparell fashion or outward carriage then a sheeps skin drawen ouer a woolfe will easily deceaue you their outward apparance will in euery respect seeme holy and innocent as the sheepe of Christ. Therefore is there neede of a serpents wisedome to discerne them and not that onely but also of diligence and watchfulnesse to espie them For as they come in sheeps skins so come they priuily as Saint Peter noteth in the place by you first mencioned There shalbe false teachers who priuilie shall bring in damnable heresies Which word though it carie the emphasis of the sentence yet is it by you wisely omitted happily because you thought it a note of an heretike not so well beseeming Martin Luther who came not so priuily I wis but open inough and in his owne liknes contrarie to the common fashion of heretikes who first put on a sheepes skin and then creepe into the flock the easier to deceiue Wherefore when that prophecie is fufilled which you haue so fitted vnto these times concerning the doctrine of many false Christs where the bodie is thither will the Eagles resort not owles or bussards but such as haue a quicke eye of faith to discerne the Lord and the swift wing of deuotiō to fly vnto him Nay y e delusions of heresies shal thē grow so strong as nothing shall be able to withstand them but only the eternall election of God For if it were possible the verie elect should be deceiued A small number God knowes in compare of that glorious multitude you so boast of in your fifth motiue yet it seemes these fewe must stand when many great troupes are caried with the doctrine of false Christs Ecce hic ecce illic But these difficulties seeme nothing vnto you who can imagine a direction so plaine against
Counsell sought into the auncient copies thereof sent for from Constantinople Alexandria and Rome the next yeare conferred examined nothing found Whereupon the Bishops of that Counsell writ to the Pope that in the Nicen Counsell nothing was decreed tending that way but rather the contrarie to wit that he should keepe himselfe within his bounds as other Metropolitans did and therefore aduised him to content himselfe with his owne charge To this subscribed 230. fathers If you come to latter times when his ful and most complet supremacie was defined at the Lateran Counsell vnder Leo the tenth presently vpon it the Vniuersitie of Paris appealed to another Counsell and condemned that former So may ye finde other Vniuersities to haue done in the like cause as Louan Colen Uienna and the rest So in these and the like poynts concerning the externall face of the Church more conspicuous consequently more subiect to gain sayings the repugnance and reiecting of them might easily bee shewen to be ancient as the allowance of them is But there be other questions concerning faith and opinion which be of a far different kinde from the former Much like vnto those tares in the parable scattered by the enemie in the seede time of the Church the better to plead antiquite yet are they not at the first espyed though till they haue sprung vp and laid claime to the ground as well as the most pure wheate Whereof there be many causes concurring one is because they be little seedes at the first and therefore lesse regarded of men De minimis non curat lex aut ratio And not onely from little euils but euen from indifferent beginnings as the deuotions and naturall affections of men doth the enemie take occasion to bring in grosse superstition Whereof the wise man giueth instance in that grat sin of idolatrie among the heathen For when a father mourned grieuously for his sonne that was taken away suddenly he made an image for him that was once dead endeuouring after a sort to preserue him aliue in the eye and memorie of man Which affection in the father had it proceeded no further were not greatly to be misliked but after he worshipped it as a God ordained ceremonies and commaunded his seruants to sacrifice vnto it Thus sayth the text by processe of time this wicked custome preuailed and was kept as a lawe Secondly as the beginnings be small and therefore lesse conspicuous so doe they breed inwardly and take deepe roote first in the minds of men before they bee published in the Church as the seed is first couered with earth before it spring vp To this purpose doth our Sauiour compare the false doctrine of the Pharisies vnto leuen which a woman takes and hides in a barrell of meale So by this meanes a little leuen in time will sower the lumpe Thirdly as the beginnings of errors so likewise their growthes and proceedings are vnsensible because they doe not sprout vp like Ionas Gourd in a moment but like ordinarie plants by little and little Non crescere cernis frutices sed crenisse The same reason which is of the growth of error is likewise to bee applied to the decay of pure religion which being not put downe at once but mouldering away in time is not so easily perceiued For had the Figge-tree which the Disciples saw suddenly withered and flourishing ouer night dryed vp in longer space it had not been so subiect to their obseruation Besides these impediments we must presume that the enemie being wise will take all fit oportunitie y t may be then since all ages haue not been alike furnished with able and vigilant pastors that also addeth some aduātage to this purpose For it is obserued that when men slept the enemie sowed tares so the darke nights of ignorance and times of securitie bee fittest to entertaine heresies without resistance But in other ages againe when it pleased almightie God to raise most glorious lights in his Church such as were most of the ancient Fathers they were presently set a worke with some graund heretike or other which so possessed them as they could not so wel intend those lesser enormities which by that meanes gathered strength more and more For they were to gather all their forces and encounter with such heresies as did aime at the soule of religion and maine pillars of christian faith some taking away the diuinitie of Christ some mangling his humanitie some confounding his natures some renting his person thus the Dragon setting vpon the Lorde of life and ready to teare in peeces the very person of our blessed Sauiour it was then no time to stand brushing his garment hauing such huge beames to remoue it was vnseasonable to pecke moates though they also hinder the eye sight and become dangerous in time to the very apple of Gods eye as the Church is called So then to conclude as in diuers questions controuersed the repugnances may be shewed to haue been auncient so there is good reason you should pardon vs for some others Thus haue I briefelie examined these few motiues not any waies extenuating so farre as I can conceiue but rather vrging them with the aduantage which if I haue in any reasonable sort satisfied my next endeuour is humble prayer to almightie God so to moue your heart as this your resolution be no more peremptorie and strong then the Motiues whereupon it buildeth are in reason able to enforce Amen FINIS Heb. 6. 1. 2. Psal. 73. 16. Luke 24. 31. Ioh. 7. 17. Stringe mētem dabit intellectum Origen D. Whit. against Camp rat 5. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Plato in Timaeo Motiue 5. Thom 2. 2● q. 2. ar 4. Scotus in 3. sent dist 23. Caietan in locum Aquin. Durand in 3. sent dist 22 1. Ioh. 5. 10. Qui credit infillum testimonium habet in se. Thom. 2. 2ae q 2 art 4. in 3. sentent dist 22. de gra libero 〈◊〉 ●6 ca. 2. 〈◊〉 6. can 〈◊〉 Gal. 1. 8. Princ. doct l. 8. cap. 22. 1. Iohn 5 Bel. de consil author lib. 2. ca. 11. ca. 12. Ibid. Bel. Sia princ doc lib. 8. ca. 15. Bel. ibid. Bel. ibid. Bel. de cons. auct lib. 2. ca. 12. Consilia ex co per ratiocinationem deducunt conclusiones De consil autho lib 2. cap. 12. lib. 8. cap. 15. a Quo peccati genere peccant illi qui c. prin lib. 8. ca. 15. infine b Bonus ecclesiae filius docentē ecclesiam securus tutus audiet nec solicite laborans an idonea media ad doctrinam suam tradendam ecclesia adhibuerit nec curiose inquirens an in medijs ipsis debitam diligentiam impenderit c Quando de huiusmodi inquam questionibus vel consulitur vel obiter disputat ecclesia aberrare aliquādo poterit velassereado vel etiā concludendo prin l. 8. ca. 15. initio d Ea solum de causa nō assirraamus hanc propositionem side catholica esse tenendam quod authores qui contrarium sentiunt nondum videamus ab ecclesia damnatos pro Hereticis de cons. auth lib. 2. ca. 5. e ca. 2. Espencaeus in comment in Titum ca. 1. August de Doct. Christiana lib. 2. Cap. 9. Lib. 3. Cap. 27. Cap. 28. Motiue 1. Hier. Epist. 19. inter Aug. Confess Aug. in praefat ad Lect. D. Reinold against Hart. Campian rat 2. Stapl. princ doct l. 10. ca. 11. Confes. August art 20. Caluin Insti l. 3. cap. 16. Cemnitius exa Cons. Trid. ses 6. Luther lib de visit saxoni Brent catechis Bellarm. de iustificat l. 5. ca. 7. propos 3. Stapl. princ lib. 2. cap. 9. Concil Trident. sess 3. Stapl. D. princ 〈◊〉 lib. 2. Cap. 4. Cap. 2. Cap. 49. Luke 18. Vincent Lirin cap. 39. Initio Orationis In 〈…〉 Lib. de Synod aduersus Arrianos ibid. ca. 16. Stapel prin doct lib. 2. ca. 13. Cap. 6. Luke 1. 17. Esa. 40. 3. Luke 1 64. Luke 16. 16. Iohn 3. 30. Gen. 35. 2. 3. Iudg. 2. 10. Chro. 13. 3. Apoc. 22. 18. Vincent Lirin ca. 2. 41. Mark 3. 24. Nahum 1. 10. Motiue 4. Ephes. 6. 15. 16. 17. Ioh. 5. 39. Mat. 16. 18. Mat. 3. 9. Mat. 3. 1. Septa Synod Constantinop Act. 13. 2. Synod Nicaena 2. Act. 7. 3. Synod 80. Constantinop sub Adrian 2. Act. 7. Gal. 3. 7. Iohn 8. 39. Rom. 11. 19. Pasil ep 52. ad Athanas. Nazian 2. Epi. ad Procopium Propter multitudinē hereticis fauentium infaustum exitum habuerūt omnia consilia illis temporibus qualia fuerint Sel●usiense Tirense Ariminense Mediolanense Smyrnense c. Mat. 7. 15. 2. Pet. 2. 1. Mat. 24. 28. Vers. 24. Mat. 5. Mat. 19. 8. Motiue 14. Cap. 39. Dilatae inueteratae haereses nequaquam hac via aggrediedae sunt 〈◊〉 quod pro● temporum tractu longa 〈◊〉 furandae veritatis patuerit occasio Sola scripturunt authoritate Nisi paeucis desperatis perditis minor videtur esse authoritas Episcoporum in Africa c. Cap. 28. 98. 116. 123. Faustinus Philippus Asellus In fascicul rerum expetend fugiend Apeliat vniuers Parisiens à Leone decimo ad futurum consilium Wisd. 14. 14.