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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A61556	The grand question, concerning the Bishops right to vote in Parliament in cases capital stated and argued, from the Parliament-rolls, and the history of former times : with an enquiry into their peerage, and the three estates in Parliament.	Stillingfleet, Edward, 1635-1699.	1680 (1680)	Wing S5594; ESTC R19869	81,456	194

In his absence the People refuse to pay the Taxes and the Lords combine together and all things tend to an open Rebellion His Son Ed. II. calls a Parlament at London and promises a Confirmation of the Charter and that no Taxes should hereafter be raised either on Clergy or Laiety without their consent Which being sent over Edw. I. confirmed it with his own Seal which was all done within the compass of this year But he again ratified it in the Parlament 27 Ed. I. So that nothing was done in that Parlament at S. Edmondsbury but granting a 12 th of the Laiety to the King And when the great Laws were passed the King and Clergy were reconciled and they sate in Parlament And the Archbishop of Canterbury fell into the King's displeasure afterwards for being so active a promoter of them The summe then of this mighty argument is that the Lords and Commons once granted their own Subsidies without the concurrence of the Clergy therefore the Clergy are no essential part of the parlament 3. The Reason assigned in Keilway's Reports why the King may hold a Parlament without the Bishops is very insufficient viz. because they have no place in Parlament by reason of their Spiritualty but by reason of their Temporal possessions The insufficiency of which Reason will appear by two things 1. That it is not true as appears by this that the Clergy are one of the Estates of the Kingdom and all the Estates of the Kingdom must be represented in Parlament 2. Were it true it is no good Reason For why may they be excluded because they sit on the account of their Baronies Where lies the force of this Reason Is it because there will be Number enough without them That was the Rump's Argument against the Secluded Members And I hope the Authour of the Letter will not justify their Cause Or is it because they hold their Baronies by Tenure So did all the ancient Barons of England and why may the King hold his Parlament with the other Barons without the Bishops and not as well with the Bishops without the other Barons Which I do not see how it can be answer'd upon those grounds Suppose the Question had been thus put Since all the ancient Lords of Parlament were Barons by Tenure and Parlaments were held for many Ages without any Barons by Patent or by Writ why may not the King hold his Parlament after the ancient way onely with Barons by Tenure I do not see but as good a Reason may be given for this as that in Keilway's Reports All that I plead for is that our good ancient and legal Constitution of Parlament may not be changed for the sake of any single Precedents and rare Cases and obscure Reports built upon weak and insufficient Reasons For as the Authour of the Letter very well saith Consuetudo Parlamenti est Lex Parlamenti The constant Practice of Parlaments and not one single Instance is the Law of Parlaments And suppose that Precedent of 25 Ed. I. as full as could be wished in this case yet I return the answer of the Authour of the Letter in a like case This is but one single Precedent of a Parlament without Bishops against multitudes wherein they were present it was once so and never but once And can that be thought sufficient to alter and change the constant course and practice of Parlaments which hath been otherwise Nothing now remains but a severe reflexion on the Popish Bishops for opposing the Statute of Provisors and the several good Acts for the Reformation But what this makes against the Votes of Protestant Bishops is hard to understand If he thinks those could not make a good Third Estate in Parlament who took Oaths to the Pope contrary to their Allegeance and the interest of the Nation so do we If he have a great zeal for the Reformation so have all true Members of the Church of England who we doubt not will heartily maintain the Cause of our Church against the Vsurpations of Rome though the heat of others should abate For did not our Protestant Bishops seal the Reformation with their Bloud and defend it by their admirable Writings What Champions hath the Protestant Religion ever had to be compared in all respects with our Cranmer ●idley Iewel Bilson Morton Hall Davenant and many other Bishops of the Church of England And notwithstanding the hard fortune Archbishop Laud had in other respects not to be well understood in the Age he lived in yet his enemies cannot deny his Book to be written with as much strength and judgment against the Church of Rome as any other whatsoever I shall conclude with saying that the Clergy of the Church of England have done incomparably more Service against Popery from the Reformatition to this day then all the other Parties among us put together And that the Papists at this time wish for nothing more then to see men under a pretence of Zeal against Popery to destroy our Church and while they cry up Magna Charta to invade the legal Rights thereof and thereby break the first Chapter of it and from disputing the Bishops presence in Cases Capital to proceed to others and so by degrees to alter the ancient Constitution of our Parlaments which will unavoidably bring Anarchy and Confusion upon us from which as well as Popery Good Lord deliver us THE END Letter p. 1. Lett. p. 93. Lett. p. 3. 118. Lett. p. 66. P. 21. Lett. p. 2 3. Lett. p. 5. Lett. p. 86. Hincmar Epist de Ordine lalatii Concil Franc. c. 3. 9. Marculph Form l. 1. c. 25. Not. in Marc. p. 287. Concil Tolet 4. c. 75. 5. c. 7. 6. c. 17. 8. in Praef. 12. c. 1. 17. c. 1. 17. c. 1. Cont l. Tolet 13. c. 2. Rer. Aleman To. 2. Cod. Leg. Antiq. B. 362. Arumae de Comitiis ● 35. c. 4. ● 98. Goldast Bohem l. 5. c. 1. Bonfin dec 2. l. 1. Decret Ladiss p. 12. Starovolse ●olon p. 2●5 Herburt Stat. Regni Pol. p. 263. Adam Brem de situ Dan. n. 85. Loccen Antiq S●eco Goth. c. 8. Ius Aulicum N●rveg c. 3. c. 36. Lett. p. 3 4. Stat. Merton c. 9. 20 H. 3. Dissert ad Flet. c. 9. § 2. Soz. hist. l. 1. c. 9. Capitul Carol Ludov l. 6. c. 281. ed. Lindenb c. 366. ed. Baluz Cod. Just. de Epise Audient l. 1. tit 4. c. 8. Cod. Theodos l. 16. tit 11. c. 1. Greg. NysS vit Greg. Basil. in ep Socr. l. 7. c. 37. Ambros. de Offic. l. 2. c. 24. Aug. ep 147. in Ps. 118. conc 24. Jac. Goth. in cod Theod. ad Extrav de Episc. judicio Concil Sardic c. 7. Balsam in Can. 4. Concil Chalced. Auth. Collat 1. tit 6. Novell 6. c. 2. Justin. Cod. l. 1. tit 3. c. 41. Cod. Theod. l. 16. tit 2. n. 38. Lindwood l. 3. de Testam Lett. p. 4. Lett. p. 68. Lett. p. 69. Lett. p.

Affairs CHAP. II. The Right in point of Law debated Concerning the Constitution of Clarendon and the Protestation 11 R. 2. HAving removed these general Prejudices I now come to debate more closely the main Point For the Authour of the Letter undertakes to prove that Bishops cannot by Law give Votes in Capital Cases in Parlament Which he doth two ways 1. by Statute-Law 2. by Use and Custome which he saith is Parlament-Law and for this he produceth many Precedents I. For Statute-Law two Ratifications he saith there have been of it in Parlament by the Constitutions of Clarendon and the 11 R. 2. 1. The Constitutions of Clarendon which he looks on as the more considerable because they were not the enacting of new Laws but a declaration of what was before And for the same Reason I value them too and shall be content this Cause stand or fall by them The Constitution in debate is the 11 th which is thus repeated and translated in the Letter Archiepiscopi Episcopi universae Personae Regni qui de Rege tenent in Capite habeant possessiones suas de Rege sicut Baroniam inde Respondeant Iusticiariis Ministris Regis sequantur faciant omnes consuetudines Regias Et sicut ceteri Barones debent interesse judiciis Curie Regis quousque perveniatur ad diminutionem membrorum vel ad mortem The Archbishops Bishops and all the dignified Clergy of the Land that hold of the King in Capite shall hold their possessions from the King as a Barony and answer for their estates unto the King's Iustices and Ministers and shall observe and obey all the King's Laws And together with the other Barons they are to be present at all Iudgments in the King's Courts till it come to require either losse of Member or Life The Argument from hence he enforceth from the solemn Recognition and publick confirmation of these Constitutions and the Oath taken to observe them from whence he concludes this to be Testimonium irrefragabile An irrefragable and invincible Testimony And so I foresee it will prove but to a quite contrary purpose from what he intended it The whole Question depends upon the meaning of the latter Clause of this Constitution The meaning he gives of it is this that the Prelats of the Church should not be present at the Iudgments given in the King's Courts when losse of Member or Life was in question The meaning of it I conceive to be this that the Bishops are required to be present in the King's Courts as other Barons are till they come to give Sentence as to Dismembring or loss of Life Whether of these is the true meaning is now to be considered and that will best be discovered these three ways 1. By the Occasion 2. By the plain Sense of the words according to their true Reading 3. By the subsequent Practice upon this Constitution in the Parlament at Northampton soon after 1. By the Occasion The Authour of the Letter assigns that Occasion for this Constitution for which there is not the least colour viz. That the Prelats of that time were ambitious of a kind of Omnipotency in Judicature I suppose he means and that to restrain their power of Judging Capital Cases this Constitution was made and because this seemed to be a diminution of their Power therefore Matt. Paris ranks it among the Consuetudines iniquas the wicked Customs of the former times For all which there is not the least shadow of Proof besides that it is so repugnant to the History of those Times that I can hardly believe a Person of so much Learning and Judgment as is commonly said to be the Authour of the Letter could betray so much unskilfulness in the Affairs of those Times For this is so far from being true that the Bishops did then affect such a Power of Iudging in all Secular Causes that they looked on their attendance in the King's Court in the Trial of Causes as a burthen which they would fain have been rid of because they accounted it a Mark of Subjection to the Civil Power and contrary to that Ecclesiastical Liberty or Independency on Princes which from the days of Gregory VII they had been endeavouring to set up Which H. II. being very sensible of resolved to tie them to the Service of their Baronies and to an attendance on the King's Courts together with other Barons But lest they should pretend any force on their Consciences as to the Canons of the Church this Constitution doth not require but suffers them to withdraw when they came to Sentence in matters of Bloud And that this was the true Occasion I prove by these two invincible Arguments 1. By the complaint which they made of the Baronies as too great a mark of Subjection to the Civil Power This is plain from Matt. Paris himself to whom the Authour of the Letter refers for when he speaks of William the Conquerour's bringing the Temporalties of the Bishops into the condition of Baronies i. e. forcing them to hold them of him in Chief upon certain Duties and Services he calls it Constitutionem pessimam a most wicked Constitution just as he calls the Customs of Clarendon Consuetudines iniquas wicked Customs And he adds that many were banished rather then they would submit to that Constitution For their Privileges were so great with the Frank-almoign they enjoy'd in the Saxon times and their desires so hearty especially among the Monks who from Edgar's time had gotten into most Cathedral Churches to advance the Papal Monarchy that they rather chose to quit all then to give up the Cause of the Churche's Liberty by accepting of Baronies Therefore Matt. Paris calls the Rolls that were made of the Services belonging to these Baronies Rotulas Ecclesiasticae Servitutis the Rolls of Ecclesiastical Slavery then which nothing could be more contrary to that Ecclesiastical Liberty which was then setting up by Pope Hildebrand And to put this out of all dispute Petrus Blesensis a Name well known in this dispute in that very Book where he complains of the Bishops Hypocrisy about Cases of Bloud in being present at hearing and trying Causes but going out at Sentence complains likewise of their Baronies as those which gave occasion to that Hypocrisy and as the marks of the vilest Slavery Et in occasione turpissimae Servitutis seipsos Barones appellant They may think it an honour to be called the King's Barons but he accounts it the greatest Slavery and applies that place of Scripture to them They have reigned but not by me they are become Princes and I know them not Now Pet. Blesensis lived in the time of H. II. and knew the whole proceedings of the Constitutions of Clarendon and was a zealous maintainer of Becket's Cause or which was all one of the Liberties of the Church as they call'd them against the Civil Power 2. By the fierce Contest between the Civil and Ecclesiastical

Power about the Liberties of Church-men This was carried on from the time that William I. brought them into Subjection by their Baronies his Sons stood upon the Rights of the Crown whilst Anselm and his Brethren struggled all they could but to little purpose till after the death of H. I. Then Stephen to gratifie the great Prelates by whose favour he came to the Crown yielded all they desired but he soon repented and they were even with him for it Malmsbury takes particular notice that he yielded they should have their Possessions free and absolute and they promised onely a conditional Allegeance to him as long as he maintained the Liberties of the Church When K. Stephen broke the Canons as they said by imprisoning 2 Bishops the Bishop of Winchester and his Brethren summon'd him to answer it before them in Council and there declared that the King had nothing to doe with Church-men till the Cause was first heard and determined by themselves All his time they had no regard to his Authority when it contradicted their Wills and when the Peace was made between Him and H. II. Radulphus de Diceto takes notice that the Power of the Clergy increased by it In this state H. II. found things when Gul. Neuburgensis saith the great business of the Church-men was to preserve their Liberties Upon this the great Quarrel between Him and Becket began this made the King search what the Rights of the Crown were which his Ancestours challenged to these he was resolved to make Becket and his Brethren submit For this purpose the Parlament was called at Clarendon and after great debates the 16 Constitutions were produced which were those the King was resolved to maintain and he made the Bishops as well as others swear to observe them Now when the rest of them relate to some Exemptions and Privileges which the Church-men challenged to themselves about their Courts Excommunications Appeals and such like and which the King thought fit to restrain them in From whence in Becket's Epistles it is said those Constitutions were framed ad ancillandam Ecclesiam to bring the Church in subjection as Baronius shews out of the Vatican Copy And Fitz-Stephen saith All the Constitutions of Clarendon were for suppressing the Liberty of the Church and oppressing the Clergy I say considering this is there not then great Reason to understand this 11 th Constitution after the same manner viz. that notwithstanding K. Stephen's Grant H. II. would make them hold by Baronies and doe all the Service of Barons in the King's Courts as other Barons did and he would allow them no other Privilege but that of withdrawing when they came to Sentence in a Case of Bloud What is there in this sense but what is easy and natural and fully agreeable to the state of those Times whereas there is not the least foundation for the pretence of the Bishops affecting to be present in all Causes which the King must restrain by this Constitution This sense of it is not onely without ground but is absolutely repugnant to all the History of that Age. For if this Constitution was intended to restrain the Bishops from trying Causes of Bloud then the Bishops did desire to be present in those Causes and the King would not suffer them Whereas it is evident that the Bishops pretended scruple of Conscience from the Canons that they could not be present but in truth stood upon their Exemption from the Service of Barons which they call'd Ecclesiastical Slavery And therefore that could not be the sense of the Constitution to restrain them in that which they desired to be freed from and which by this Constitution of Clarendon was plainly forced upon them against their wills For Lanfranc had brought the Canon of the 11 th Council of Toledo into England That no Bishop or Clergy-man should condemn a man to death or give vote in the Sentence of Condemnation at which Council were present 2 Archbishops 12 Bishops and 21 Abbots And before H. II ' s time this Canon of Toledo was received into the Body of the Canon-Law made by Ivo Burchardus Regino and Gratian who lived in the time of K. Stephen and when they saw such a Canon so generally received is there not far greater Reason to think they desired to withdraw then that they should press to be present and the King restrain them But the Constitution is so framed on purpose to let them understand that the King expected in all Iudgments they should doe their Duty as other Barons but lest they should think he purposely designed to make them break the Canons he leaves them at liberty to withdraw when Sentence was to be given So that I can hardly doubt but the Authour of the Letter if he please calmly to reflect upon the whole matter will see reason to acknowledge his mistake and that this Constitution was so far from intending to restrain the Bishops from all Iudicature in Cases of Bloud that on the contrary it was purposely framed to oblige them to be present and to act in such Causes as the other Barons did at least till the Cause was ripe for Sentence which last Point the King was content to yield to them out of regard and reverence to the Canons of the Church For the words of the Law are not words of Prohibition and restraint from any thing but of Obligation to a Duty which was to be present and serve in the King's Courts of Iudicature in like manner as the other Barons did From all which it is evident I think beyond contradiction that the Occasion of this Law was not the Ambition of the Prelates as the Authour of the Letter suggests to thrust themselves into this kind of Iudicature but an Ambition of a worse kind though quite contrary viz. under a pretence of Ecclesiastical Liberty and Privilege to exempt themselves from the Service of the King and Kingdom to which by virtue of their Baronies they were bound sicut caeteri Barones as well as the other Barons And therefore it is so far from being true that the Bishops exercise of this Iurisdiction together with the Temporal Lords is a Relique of Popery and one of the Encroachments of the Clergy in those Times of Ignorance and Usurpation as some well-meaning Protestants are now made to believe that on the contrary the Exemption of the Clergy from this kind of Secular Iudicature was one of the highest Points of Popery and that which the Pope and his Adherents contested for with more zeal then for any Article of the Creed This was one of those Privileges which Thomas Becket said Christ purchased for his Church with his bloud and in the obstinate defence whereof against the King he himself at last lost his life And now to put the matter beyond all doubt I appeal to any man skill'd in the History of those Times whether Thomas Becket opposed the Constitutions of Clarendon to the