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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A10753	A friendly caveat to Irelands Catholickes, concerning the daungerous dreame of Christs corporall (yet invisible) presence in the sacrament of the Lords Supper Grounded vpon a letter pretended to be sent by some well minded Catholickes: who doubted, and therefore desired satisfaction in certaine points of religion, with the aunswere and proofes of the Romane Catholicke priests, to satisfie and confirme them in the same. Perused and allowed for apostolicall and Catholicke, by the subscription of maister Henry Fitzsimon Iesuit, now prisoner in the Castle of Dublin. With a true, diligent, and charitable examination of the same prooffes: wherein the Catholickes may see this nevv Romane doctrine to bee neither apostolicall nor Catholicke, but cleane contarie to the old Romane religion, and therefore to bee shunned of all true auncient Romane Catholickes, vnlesse they vvill be new Romish heretickes. By Iohn Rider Deane of Saint Patrickes Dublin.	Rider, John, 1562-1632.	1602 (1602)	STC 21031; ESTC S102958	114,489	172

one hath drawn them to ydolatrie the other inciteth whom he can to treacherie And if Spaine might haue his will of this kingdome but he is liker to loose Spaine then conquer Ireland the subiects should be vsed as the Dukedome of Millain the kingdome of Naples are by the Spaniards hādled Poperie seeketh to bring Ireland to Spanish slaverie from English libertie al the Nobilitie Gentlemē vpō pain of death are forbidden to dwel in Castles the cittizens in high streets but back-laines no man to wear a weapō but a knife of three inches lōg yet tipt with a French posie No poynt This should be the miserable state of the Irish vnder bloudie Spaines government Now for conclusion let me intreat you as August did his Readers Noli meas literas ex tua opinione vel contentione In his Preface before the third booke de Trinitate c. neither reprooue nor correct these labors according to your own private opinion or contentions humors but correct confute thē lectione divina by Gods word then you shal haue my good leaue loue my best furtherance to the State that after you haue replied to this it may be printed as also your persons for further conference protected the like I desire of you that whē you find the text truth against you you seek not any lying glosse or Romish shift to help you rather contending for victory then veritie The Lord open your eies that you may see the truth that you we ioyntlie ioyfully may preach onely Christ crucified without mans inventions c Your louing friend so far at you are Christs the Queene Iob. Rider A FRIENDLY CAVEAT TO IRELANDS CATHOLICQVES CONCERning the Daungerous Dreame of Christs corporal● presence in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper grounded vpon a letter sent from the Catholicques c. To the reverend Fathers the holy Iesuits Seminaries and all other Priests that fauour the holy Romane religion within the kingdome of Ireland HVmbly praieth your Fatherly charities F. W. and P. D. with many other professed Catholicques of the holie Romane religion that whereas of late they haue heard some Protestant Preachers confidently affirme and as it seems vnto our shallow capacities plainly do prooue that these positions here vnder-written cannot be proued by anie of you to be either Apostolicall or Catholicque by canonicall Scripture or the auncient Fathers of the Church which liued and writ within the compasse of the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention which assertion of theirs hath bred in your suppliants great doubts touching the trueth of the same vnlesse your fatherly accustomed charities be extended presently to satisfie our consciences in the same by the holy vvritten word of God such Fathers of the Church as aforesaid which being so directly and plainely prooued by you as aforesaid may be a speedie meanes to convert many Protestants to our profession Otherwise if these points cannot be so proued by you vpon whose learned resolutions we greatly relie then not onely we but many thousands more in this kingdome of Ireland can hold these points to be neither Apostolicall or Catholicque And thus hauing shewed some of our doubts wee desire your fatherly resolutions as you tender the credit of our religion the convincing of the Protestants and the satisfying of our poore consciences And thus craving your speedie learned and fatherly answeres in writing at or before the first of Februarie next with a perfect quotation of both Scripture and Fathers themselues not recited or repeated by others for our better instruction and the aduersaries speedier stronger confutation we cōmend your persons and studies to Gods blessed direction and protection Positions 1 That Transubstantiation or the corporall presence of Christ● bodie and bloud in the Sacrament was neuer taught by the auncient fathers that euer writ in the first fiue hundred years after Christs ascention but a spirituall presence onely to the faithfull beleeuers 2 That the Church of God had not their service in an vnknowne tongue but in such language as euery perticuler Church vnderstood 3 Thirdly that Purgatorie and praiers for the dead were not then knowne in Gods Church 4 Fourthly that images praying to Saints vvere then neither taught by those Fathers nor receiued of the Catholicque Church 5 Fiftly that the Masse vvhich novv the Church of Rome vseth vvas not then knovvne to the Church 6 Sixtly that there ought not to bee one supreame Bishop ouer all the vvorld and that Bishop to be the Pope of Rome and that the said Pope hath not vniversall iurisdiction ouer all Princes and their subiects in all causes Temporall and Ecclesiasticall The Protestant Preachers affirme vnles you prooue the premisses by canonicall Scripture they cannot be Apostolicall and therefore bind not the conscience of anie And if they cannot bee proued by the said Fathers then they be neither auncient nor Catholike And therefore to be reiected as mens inventions PRouoked to prooue either by Scriptures or Fathers Catho Priests vvhich liued vvithin the compasse of fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention that the Primitiue Church and Catholicques of this time are of consent touching these Articles 1 That Christ is really in the blessed Sacrament 2 That Scriptures should not be perused by the vulgar 3 That praier for the dead Purgatorie vvas beleeved 4 That images vvere vvorshipped and praiers made to Saints 5 That Masse vvas allovved 6 That the supremacie of the Pope vvas acknovvledged GEntlemen Rider the cause of this your provokement was a quiet and milde conference vpon these positions maister W. N. with an honorable Gentlemā and a speciall good friend of yours concerning religion wherein he confidently assumed that the Iesuits and Romane Priests of this kingdome were able to prooue by Scriptures and Fathers these Positions to be Apostolicall Catholicque And that the Church of Rome and the Romane Catholicques in Ireland now hold nothing touching the same but what the holy Scriptures and primitiue Fathers held within the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention Now if you in this conference for your part haue made such proofe by the holy canonicall Scriptures and such Doctors of the Church as aforesaid I haue promised to become a Roman Catholicque if you haue failed in your proofe which I am assured you haue done he likewise before worshipfull witnesses hath giuen his hand to renounce this your new doctrine of the church of Rome become a professor of the gospel of Christ This was the occasion and maner of your prouokement which J hope the best minded will not mistake not you misconster being onelie prouoked by your friend 1. Pet. 3.15 yea faith if you refuse not Saint Peters counsell to be readie alwaes to giue an answere to anie man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you In your first line you chaunge a woord and for or which greatly

altereth the Catholickes question and is farre from our first meaning For we hold with Christs trueth Ioh. 20.31 that vnlesse the written word of God first warrant it we are not bound in conscience to beleeue it though all the Doctors and Prelates in the world should sweare it And this was demaunded of you not as the demaunders doubted that the canonicall Scriptures were insufficient to prooue any article of faith but onelie that all men might see and so be resolved whether the Protestants or the now Romane Catholicques ioyne neerest to Christs trueth and the faith of the first primitiue Fathers For that faith which can bee prooved to bee taught in Christs time and so receiued and continued in the primitiue Church for the first fiue hundred yeares after Christs ascention must needs be the true auncient Apostolicall and Catholicque faith And that other faith that cannot be so proved is but base bastardly and counterfeit and I trust in Christ that the Reader easily shall perceiue before the ende of this small Treatise that this your opinion touching Christs carnall presence in the Sacrament and so in the rest of the other Positions was never taught by Christ nor once dreamed on by the auncient Fathers but invented and deviled a thousand yeares after Christ by the late Church of Rome grounding their proofes onelie of an emptie sound of syllables without Apostolicall or Catholicque sence enforcing both Scriptures and Fathers to speake what they and you pleased not what the holie Ghost and the Fathers purposed But first heere you wrong your selfe much your cause more but the simple people most of all in altering the state of the question for our controversie is of the manner of Christs presence in the Sacrament whether he be there corporallie or spirituallie The Catholicque Priests subtilly alter the state of the question And you no doubt in your conscience knowing it vnpossible to prooue your carnall presence alter the question verie deceiptfully from the manner to the matter That Christ is really in the blessed Sacrament A thing never denied by vs nor ever in question betwixt Protestant and Papist for both you and we hold Christs reall presence in the Sacrament but you carnallie and locallie we misticallie and spiritually you by Transubstantiation we in the commanded and lawfull administration But here you forget your grounds of divinitie and rules of Logicke in making an opposition betwixt spirituall receiving and reall receiving opposing them as contraries whereas the opposition is not betwixt spirituall and reall but betwixt corporall and spirituall for spirituall receiving by faith is reall receiving and corporall receiving by the mouth is also reall receiving So that the Scriptures and Fathers that here you alleadge bee altogither impertinent to prooue your carnall presence of Christ and his new conception of bread not of the blessed Virgin by a sinfull Priest not by the holy Ghost For Christ willing I will make it plaine vnto you that you haue shewed little divinitie and concealed much learning in this onely hudled vp a number of texts of Scriptures and Testimonies of Fathers out of Eckius Common-places and other like Enchiridions and neuer read the fathers themselues which at first was requested And thus trusting other mens reports and not your owne eyes you haue wrongd your self weakned your cause and abused the simple For if you had diligently read throughly weighed these Scriptures and Fathers you might haue seene and knowne that these confute your erronious opinions and confirme them not But this you should haue here prooved for the Catholicques satisfaction in which you haue altogither failed That after the Priest hath spoken over and to the Bread and Wine Rhem. test 1. Cor. 11. Sect. 9. Hoc est corpus meum and vsed powrefull words over it and thē which you call your consecration that presentlie the substances of Bread and Wine are gon not one crumme or drop remaining but wholly transubstantiated transnatured and chaunged into the verie reall naturall and substantiall bodie and bloud of Christ which was borne of the Virgin Marie Rhe. Test ●●th 26. Sect. 4. and nailed on the crosse is now in heaven and yet in the Sacrament whole aliue and immortall and that this bodie of Christ must bee received with our corporall mouth and locally descend into our corporall stomackes Which bodie so made by the Priest is offered by the Priest to God the father as a propitiatorie mercifull and redeeming sacrifice by which the Priest applieth as hee saith the generall vertues of Christs passion to every particular mans necessitie either quicke or dead for m●tters temporall or graces spirituall for whom and when he listeth and for what hee pleaseth Your carnall presence shall bee first handled The second point which is your propitiatorie sacrifice shall bee handled in the title of the Masse This is your Romane ●●e learning which you should haue prooved but how your owne proofes being duely examined disprooue you let the learned iudge But now to your first proofe out of the sixth of Iohn to prooue your opinion touching the first position Ioh. 6. vers 51. The bread vvhich I vvill giue is my flesh c. Catho Priests Ioh. 6. vers 53. Vnlesse you eate the flesh of the Son of man and drinke his bloud you shal haue no life in you Ioh. 6. vers 55. My flesh is meat truly my bloudes c. GEntlemē you mistake vtterly Christs meaning Rider wresting Christs wordes from the spirituall sence in which he spake to the litterall sence which he never meant ancient Fathers never taught Primitiue Church of Christ for one thousand yeares at least after Christs ascentiō never knew or received For the words and phrases be figuratiue and allegorical therefore the sence must be spirituall not carnal For this is a generall rule in Gods booke ancient Fathers yea and in your Popes Canons and glosses that everie figuratiue speech or phrase of Scripture must be expounded spirituallie not carnally or litterallie as anone more plainlie you shall heare But that the simple be no longer seduced by your Romane doctrine expounding this 6. of Iohn grammaticallie and carnally contrarie to Christs meaning constraining these places to prooue your carnall presence of Christ in the Sacrament when there was no Sacrament then ordained J will set downe GOD willing Christs meaning truelie and plainlie which you shall nor be able either by Scriptures or auncient Fathers to contradict 1 First I will plainelie deliver the occasion why Christ vsed the Metaphor of Bread calling himselfe Bread 2 Secondlie according to which of Christs nature he is our living bread whether as hee is man onely or God onely or as he is compleate God and man 3 Thirdly how this bread must be taken and eaten whether by the mouth of the bodie or the mouth of the soule 4 Fourthly the fruit that comes to the true eaters thereof 5 Lastly the reasons shall bee alleadged out of

est nam ipse quoque homo vinum benedixit cum dixit accipite bibite hoc est sanguis meus sanguis vi●●s c. For our Lord Christ red wine blessed wine when he said take drinke that my bloud the bloud of the vine the word which is ●●ed for manie for the remission of sinnes doth signifie allegorie allie the holy river of gladnesse Out of which I note First it is sarguis vitis the bloud of the grope properlie and that is wine It is called Christs bloud ●acromontallie and by way of signification Secondlie it appeares to be figura●ne in this word shed for the bloud of the grape which is ●●●e was not shed for manie but the bloud of Ch i st But you will save it is true before consece●tion but after consecration it is Christs verie naturall bloud No saith Clement immediatlie following Qued autem v●num esset quod benedictum est c. And that it was wine which was blessed hee sheweth againe when he saith to his disciples I will not drinke of the fruit of the vine c. Read Clem nt follow Clem. Out of which premis●es I note three things First that that which you call consecration this learned Father calls it benediction Second he that after consecration the nature of wine remaineth still and it is not changed as you imagine Thirdly that the phrase is figuratiue and not proper Peda ●u Inc. 22. page 476 And ve●●rable Beda one countrie man tells you that in England in his time the text was taken figuratiuely The solemnities of the old Passover saith he being ended Christ commeth to the newe which the Church is des●ous to continue in remembrance of her redemption that in stead of the flesh and bloud of a LAMBE hee substituting the Sacrament of his flesh and bloud in the figure of bread and wine might shew himselfe to bee the same to whom the Lord sware and will not repent c. Beds calleth it not the naturall bodie of Christ that worketh our redemption but a rememberance of our redemption a figure of it Thus the indifferent Reader may see that Augustine Ambrose Origin Tertullian Hiorome Clemens Alexandrinus Beda and manie others which I omit for brevities sake all of them being auncient approoved w●iters and all of them of your owne Prints doe hold with vs against you that your propositions be not proper but Sacramentall improper significatiue representatiue allegoricall figuratiue which greatlie wounds the bodie of your cause and will weaken your credits with the Catholickes But you will say these testimonies of these Fathers though of your owne Prints yet they prooue nothing against you vnlesse the Church of Rome should receiue and allow that exposition of the fathers to be Catholicke If you should so replie surely it were a weake replication and subiect to manie exceptions and you would wring I cannot say wrong the church of Rome that she should hold a doctrine against all the old Doctors But if you will thus replie to bleate the eies of the simple yet will I frustrate your expectation for now I will shew you that the auncient Popes and the auncient Church of Rome held at these Fathers did that the proposition Hoc est corpus meum to be significatiue and improper and therefore figuratiue against your opinion You shall heare the Church of Rome deliver her owne minde with her owne mouth Dist 2. do consecratione canon which you cannot denie her wordes be these Ipsa immolatio carnis quae sacerdotis manibus fit Ch●●●ti p●ssio more crucifixio dicitur non rei veritate sed significante misterio That offering of the f esh which is done by the hand of the Priest Hecost pag. 434. You cannot denie but this Pope was a Protestant And if this canon be Catholicke then it your carnall presence antichristian is called the passion death and crucifying of Christ but not in exactnesse of truth but in misterie of that which was s gnified and the glosse there maketh most plaine against you Dicitur corpus Christi sed improprie vt sit sensus vocatur corpus Christi id est significat corpus Christi It is called the bodie of Christ but improperly that is figuratiuely that this be the ●ence●t is called the bodie of Christ that is it signifieth the bodie of Christ J will alleadge in this case other Popes and the saith of the Church of Rome in another age whereby the Reader may plainelie see that the auncient P●pes and auncient Rome had the true succession in doctrine which we stand now on not that false succession of the place and a rotten worme-eaten chaire that you brag of the glosse speaketh thus against your litterall sence of Hec est corpus meum De consecratione dist ● Panis est in altare Glossa ibid page 43● Not possible by their owne confession that bread should bee the bodie of Christ. Hoc ta●●● est impossible quod panis sit corpus Christi yet this is impossible that bread should be the body of Christ Now gentle Reader see the wrong the late Popes and Priests offer to the Catholicks of this kingdome they would haue them imbrace that fot faith which the old Church of Rome held for heresie that for poss b litie which she saith is impossible Why would you haue vs to beleeue that which you your selues say is impossible This all the Iesuits and Priests in Christendome cannot aunswere If you say these two Popes and the Church of Rome then taught the truth why doe you now dissent from the olde Romane faith If you saye the Popes and Church of Rome then cited you will be counted an hereticke and therefore in Gods feare confesse the trueth with vs and the olde Church of Rome and deceiue the Catholickes of this kingdome no more with this litterall sence of Hoc est corpus meum which you borrow from the late Popes and late Church of Rome and is a new error dissenting from the old Catholicke faith dist 2. can Corpus Christi pag. 4. 8. col 4. You cannot d●nie this Pope to be a protestan● in 〈◊〉 point And I will adde one other Popes Canon Corpus Christi quod fuexitur de Altari figura est dum panis ●inum videntur extra veritas autem dum corpus sa●gu●s Christi in veritate interins creditur The bodie of Christ which is taken from the Altar is a figure so long as the bread and wine are seene vnreceived but the tru●●● of the figure is seene when the bodie and bloud are received trul●● inwardly and by faith into the heart Now the glosse in that place expondeth the te●t and saith Corpus Christs est sacrificium corporis Christi alias falsum est quod dicit the bodie of Christ in the text signifieth the sacrifice of the bodie of Christ otherwise it is false Out of which I note that the Church of Rome calls the outward Elements

presence which if the● faile you then your foundation is santif●● your building will not be able to abide the least 〈◊〉 of Christs breath The first is consecration the second transubstantiation for vnles there he consecration there can be no transubstantiation then no car●●l presence of Christ in the Sacrament And then neither your masse nor mattes worth two pece And so the ●oules then in your imagined purgatorie may crie and yell for lacke of a dirge and a masse of Requiem But l●●t I must tell you the word is new neither vsed by Christ or his Apostles in the institution of the sacramēt ●or heard of in any ancient Father for manie hundred yeares after Christ Again you never read in anie a●●e 〈◊〉 sacred or prophane that consecration should signifie to change one substance into another for the nature of the word wil not beare it Now seeing by Christ ●or his Apostle Paul it was not vsed nor ancient father euer tooke it in this sence Again the nature of the word 〈◊〉 no such signification I see not but you deserue much blame in binding the Catholickes consciences to beleeue that which is against divinitie antiquitie and ●omon sence Now Gentlemen pardon me to demand of you but this question what words be they that cōse●●● that is which turn the substances of bread wine ●nto the naturall substantial bodie bloud of Christ Me thinkes I heare you Iesuits and Priests calling me a foole for demaunding such a question considering as yee pretend that the Church of Rome her learned men haue euer from Christs time held with one consent one manner of consecration with a certaine set number of words without addition or alteration Such fathers as lived next to Christs time shold know best the practise of the primitiue church these fathers you refuse and chose others a thousand years yonger and therefore they be of lesse credit Gala. 9. and therefore my question is frivolous needlesse and no doubt you make your Catholickes beleeue so but alasse you deceiue them it is not so for I will show you manie several opinions amongst your learned men yea Popes themselues one contrarie to another I praye you let me and the Catholickes of this kingdome therefore be certified and satisfied by Gods word the practise of the Primitiue Church for the fi st six hundred years which be the words of consecration that worketh this miraculous alteration of substances which if you cannot prooue as I am sure you cannot then the Catholickes haue good cause to looke to their consciences to follow you no further then you follow Christ according to his word For if anie man nay all men nay if an Angell nay all Angels should come from heauen and preach otherwise then Christ and his Apostles haue taught let him be accursed If Angels nay all Angels from heauen must not be beleeued bringing contrarie doctrine to Christ and his Apostles will you then bindle the Catholickes of this kingdome to beleeue you onely comming from Rome Rheme whence you being new doctrine not onelie contrarie to Gods truth but to the Fathers of the Primitiue Church And to beginne with Guide in his Manipulo curatorum Guid● cap. 4. pag 23. 24. 25. But more you 〈◊〉 see on the cantels or sleights of your masso concerning the neces●●tie of the crosses vvord of the canon of the masse and the priests intention Who saith there be foure several opinions amongst the learned Rabbins of Rome touching the words of consecration The first fore saieth hee will haue besides the words of the ● Euangelists and Paule the intention of ●he Preiste a and so saith your masse booke the precepts of the Church to bee dulie observed jumping with your said Masse-booke that vnlesse the Priests intention bee to consecrate there is no consecration though he vse all Christs words and Pauls And if the priest omit pracepta ecclesia that is the commaundements of the Church of Rome in his consecration ●●ttalissime pecearet he sinnes most deadlie and is to be punished most grievously But Abbot panormitaue do celebratione messarum page 220. is of another minde saying Etiamsi sacerdos celebres vt Deus perdat aliquem 〈◊〉 bene consecrat Notwithstanding the priest saie Masse with intention that God would destroy some 〈◊〉 yet doth hee consecrate well (a) In he canteli prin at Venice 1464 What Christian heart doth not loath this divelish intention and hellish religion Heere let all Catholickes marke that this first opinion holds that Christes institution is not sufficient without the priests intention At the people are not sure of the priests intention so they are not surs of Christs carnal presence so commit ●dolatr●t ●●o worshipp●●g bread bei●● not consecrated For if his head be otherwise occupied he consecrates not and the due observation of the precepts of the Church which partlie consist in wordes partlie in gestures c. so that by this opinion those that simplie and plainlie for the first eight hundred or a thousand yeares next after Christ vsed the forme of Christs institution onelie never consecrated rightlie no not Christ himselfe nor Paul and so till of late daies there was no consecration Transubstantiation or carnall presence So that this opinion prooveth your owne transubstantiation carnall presence not to be either Apostolicall or Catholicke but new invented and phantasticall The second opinion in of maister Doctor Subtilis for so he call● him he statlie contradicteth the former opinion saith that all he words from qui pri●●●● to Simili modo in the Canon of your masse booke are necessarilie required to consecration and therefore the former Doctor If you say Christs institution vvere sufficient then your canon o● your m●sse is super sludus if you say it is not sufficient without your masse caug● then Christs institution vvere imperfect Which to thinke is blasphemy flint short But Gentlemen you know that the Canon of the masse was not made by one Pope nor by tenne Popes b●t in manie hundred years it was in patching togither I hope you will not sa●e that those Saints and Martirs of God from Christes time to the making of that Idolatrous Canon of the masse beeing manie hundred yeares had not the right consecration when they practiz d Christs institution Alij d●xerunt there is a third opinion of divers Doctors which held contrarie to both the former but because it is but fabulous and not woorth reading therefore I will seilence it as not worth the writing But Guido his opinion is flat contrarie to them all and saith pre●sely that hoc est enim corpus menin doth consecrate without anie more helpe So Guido is contrarie in opinion to the former three opinions and everie of them all contrarie one to another Heere now the Catholickes may see the consent and vnitie of the late Church of Rome touching consecration Yet I will bring you a