tromperie whereof how greate complaintes the Cleargie of Englande hath made you maie reade in Mathewe of Westminster in the liues of diuers kynges and namely of Henry the thirde and Edward the first One historie is notable that the Pope fente a Legate called Otto with a letter complainyng of the greate pouertie of the Churche of Rome whiche was the cause that she was compelled to pille and polle poore suters that sued to the Courte of Rome in remeadie whereof he demaunded of euery Cathedrall churche two prebendes and of euery Religious house so much as the portiō of two Mōkes or cloisterers came to by yere But the Cleargy would in no wise graunte it The same requeste was made in Fraunce but could not bee obteined Wherefore euery man maie see how maliciously you slander the prince whiche hath aucthoritie to take for necessarie affaires of the realme so longe as a competent liuyng remaine vnto the Ministers The Papiste Forth it is writtē of the Primitiue church that of suche goods which thei had in common ther was such equall diuision made by the handes of the Apostles that no one man of the beliuers did lacke or was forced of necessitie to begge But since the reformation of this Englishe church many especially of the Clergie which were before well able to liue are now brought vnto a very bare and beggerly life and estate The aunswere This diuision lasted not longe emong the Apostles at Hierusalem for saincte Paule from the Churches of the Gentiles receiued almose to supplie the necessitie of the poore sainctes at Hierusalem and by Peter Iames Ihon he was exhorted so to doe as you maie reade in the seconde to the Galathians and the second to the Corinth viij and. ix And as for your Cleargie if any of theim bee broughte to beggerie it is through their owne ignoraunce and frowardnesse whiche either will not forsake their heresies or are not able to minister in the Churche of Christ if any worthie menne bee neglected it is the faulte of some priuate persones and not of the whole Churche The Papiste Fiueth in the Primitiue church christes Apostles did baptise the beleuers onely in the name of Iesus Christe and not by expresse woordes of the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghoste the whiche forme of baptizyng vsed in the Primitiue churche these new reformatours vse not The aunswere That any of the Apostles Baptised onely in the name of Iesus Christe excludyng the name of the father and of the holy ghost it is a detestable sclaūder of the holy apostles Who as thei had an expresse commaundement of our sauiour Christe to baptise in the name of the blessed Trinitie the Father the Sonne and the holy Ghost so there is no doubt but thei did alwaies obserue it which is easily to be gathered out of the. xix chapiter of the Actes where certain disciples of Ephesus beyng vnorderly baptised by some preposterous disciples of Ihon aunswered thei knewe not whether there were an holy ghost or no sainct Paule then doeth demaunde into what thei were baptized as though he should saie if you had been rightly Baptized you could not haue been ignorante of the holy ghost but by their aunswere he perceiued that thei were baptised into the name of Ihon and not of Christe as though Ihon had béen the head of their religiō and not christ Then after S. Paule had declared that Ihons doctrine baptisme was to bee referred altogether to Iesu Christe thei were baptised into the name of Iesus Christe that is to acknowledge Iesus Christ to be the heade and aucthour of their Religion not that in the forme of their Baptisyng the name of the father of the holy ghost was excluded And so are all other places to be expounded where it is saied that any are baptised in the name of Iesus christ And in no place is it said that any manne was baptised onely in the name of Iesus Christ. Wherfore this cauillation as it vnproffitable for your purpose so is it slanderous and blasphemous against the Apostles The Papiste Sixte in the Primitiue Churche the Apostles Peter Ihon and their Successours did geue the holy Ghost vnto their beleuers that were before baptized by laiyng their handes vppon their heades whiche thinge our reformators of this our English churche doe refuse to doe by their deniall made of the Sacrament of Confirmation The Aunswere Although I wil not contende with you on what parte of mens bodies the Apostles laide their handes yet it is boldly affirmed of you that thei laide their handes on mens heades whiche you reade not in any place of the scripture but concernyng the substance of the matter the Apostles by the ceremony of imposition of handes conferred the holy ghost that is to saie the visible graces and giftes of the holy ghost as the gifte of tongues the gift of prophecie the gifte of healyng and suche like whiche giftes as they were temporall in the Churche to beutifie the ministery of the gospell in the firste publishing therof and nowe are ceased so the ceremony by whiche thei were conferred is rightly abrogated For now the ministers by laiyng on their handes can not giue those externall graces of the holie ghoste wherefore thei ought not to vse that Ceremonie An other imposition of handes was vsed by the Apostles on those that were Baptised beyng infantes which after thei came to yeres of discretion professed their faith before the Churche to whiche thei were Baptised and so were receiued onely by imposition of handes whiche was therefore called confirmation Not that it was a Sacramente or a signe of Gods fauour suppliyng that which wāted in baptisme but that it was a testimonie of the Churches allowing of those that were so Baptised and after learned the principles of their faithe And this Ceremonie we retaine in our churche not as a Sacramēte whiche is a visible signe of an inuisible grace betwene God and vs but as an externall approbation and receiuyng of the persone in suche sorte Baptised As for your Oile and Chrisme that you occupie in your Popishe confirmation hath none institution of Christe and therefore is no Sacramente The Papiste Seuenth the order and maner was of the Primitiue churche if any man was dangerously sicke to send for the Prieste to praie for hym and oinct hym with Oyle in the name of our Lorde God whiche the reformatours of this our Englishe churche doe refuse to doe by their deniall of the Sacramente of extreme vnction The aunswere In the primitiue Churche the Elders of the Churche had the gifte of healyng and therefore when any man was sicke thei vsed to sende for the Elders of the Churche who praied for hym and anointed hym with Oile in the name of the Lorde by whiche Ceremonie it pleased GOD to restore the partie to healthe as you maie read in the v. Chapiter of sainct Iames. And in the sixte of saincte Markes Gospell wee reade that the Apostles beyng sente
called Especially whē you pretend to geue it the name whiche commonly it beareth for you are not ignorante that it is called the booke of Common praier and not the Common booke of praier But a man maie easely and peraduenture truely gesse why you refused to cal it the boke of common praier leaste any man should conceiue by the onely name that common praier which is so necessarie for the Churche of Christe a forme whereof that booke conteineth is altogether wantyng in your Popishe Churche where in your Missalles Processionalles Hymnalles Grailes Antiphonalls and Pontificalls are not conteined common praiers to the edification of all the churche but idle and vnprofitable ceremonies to the mainteinaunce of ignoraunce and superstition The Papiste The first consideration is because the saide seruis booke was condemned as hereticall and schismaticall Anno domini 1553. both by the clergie and cōuocation of this realme and by the nobilitie and commons of the same by al whose consentes ther passed an acte of Parliament for the repeale therof Beside that Cranmer Ridley and Latimer the chief aucthours and composers of the saied boke were therfore openly condemned by the Churche and Lawes of this realme suffered the paines of death in Oxforde S. Paule in his Epistle willed the hebrues to haue in remembrance their Bishoppes which preached vnto them the woorde of God and diligently to obserue and looke vpon the ende of their liues and conuersation The aunswere The first consideration cōteineth two causes of your refusal the one because the booke of Seruice was repealed by Acte of Parliament the other for that Cranmer Ridley and Latimer were burned at Oxforde for it To the first I aunswere that if you accompt the aucthoritie of the Parliament of force to condempne it why doe you not acknowledge th'aucthoritie of the same in establishyng it for anno 1551. by all the states of the realme that boke was allowed and appoincted to bee vsed Also by diuerse Actes of Parliamente in the tyme of our soueraigne Ladies reigne established and cōfirmed But it is no hard matter to gather your traiterous meanyng whiche is common to you with all them of your religion You accoumpte no actes of Parliament passed in the tyme of kyng Edward or Quéene Elizabeth to be of any aucthoritie beyng confirmed by the roiall assent of those whom you esteme to be no lawfull Princes seyng your father the Pope hath pronounced sentence of depriuation against them Your seconde reason I will tourne vpon your owne necke Seyng Cranmer Ridley and Latimer did so constauntly suffer death for the confirmation of that doctrine whiche thei hadde taught it is a good argumente that thei dissembled not with vs but vttered that truthe vnto vs wherein as thei liued so thei were content to dye The text of the Apostle to the Hebres 13. you applie verie straungely as though wee should thincke well of none that suffreth death by martyrdom wheras the Apostle meaneth cleane contrary and exhorteth the Iewes to followe the faithe of them the ende of whose conuersation thei had séen to be agreable to their doctrine who as thei had preached diligētly so did thei ende their liues by tormentes in the same confession constauntely and patiently The Papiste The seconde consideration is that the saied booke so vniuersally condemned by all degrees of men here in this realme was receiued and brought in againe only by the nobilitie and cōmons of this realme cleane contrary to the whole mindes of our Clergie no one person in the Parliamente did giue his consente thereunto Besides that the whole conuocation did exhibite their boke to the contrarie VVherin the shepe taking vpon theim to establishe this boke contrarie to the learnyng and conscience of their shepherdes thei haue doen against the expresse wordes of our sauiour Christ who in describing the office of good shepherde and the duetie of good shepe saied that a good shepherde muste knowe his sheepe and his sheepe muste knowe hym heare his voice and followe hym And the Apostle S. Paule in his Epistle Cap. 13. willed the Hebrues to obey their shepherdes and spirituall gouernours and to submitte themselues vnto theim for thei doe watch euen as men whiche muste geue accompte for their soules Obey them therfore saieth S. Paule that they maie do it with ioie and not with grief The aunswere Your seconde consideration is determinable by suche as are skilfull in the lawes of this realme what persones muste concurre in the Parliament that it may be an Acte of Parliamente and I doubte not but the matter was so ordered by the iudgemente of them that had knowledge as was for the honour and wealthe of the realme But if any errour had been committed at that tyme you speake of it was since by all three estates in Parliament redressed the same booke of seruice by their aucthoritie being confirmed But whereas you complaine that the Shepe in that firste Parliament tooke vpon thē against their shepherdes I aunswer naie but the Shepherdes againste the Shepebiters for your Cleargie consisted all of Wolues and not of Shepherdes wherefore it was the duetie of the Prince with the nobles and senatours of that Parliamente to deliuer the Shepe out of their cruell tyrānie and to banishe and remoue all suche raueinous beastes frō the flocke And touchyng the booke you saie thei exhibited of what credite would you haue it to bee when thei so shamefully refused conference before the moste parte of the Parliamente vpon a friuolous pretence in Westminster churche At whiche time al wise menne sawe that their cause was naught whiche durste not abide the triall in the open light The Papiste The thirde consideration is that it is prohibited by the Canons of the apostles and by the generall caunselles also that a christian man shoulde not communicate neither in Sacramentes nor yet in commō praiers with Heritikes and Schismatikes As it appeareth in the tenth Canon and in the seconde Canon of the counsell holden at Antioche It was decreed there that it was not lawful to communicate with excōmunicate persones nor to enter into any house nor to praie with thē nor lawfull to receiue them that are excommunicate out of one churche into another churche And in the coūsel holdē at Laodicea it was prohibited there that the christiā men should enter into the churches or churche yerdes of the heretikes there to praie with them and in the 33. Canon of the same counsell the like prohibition is there expressed for praier with Schismatikes And in the 4. counsell holden at Carthage Canon 73. it was decreed that christian men should nether praie nor singe with Heretikes And who so euer did praie singe or communicate with any excōmunicate person whether he were of the Clergie or of the Laitie shoulde be thereby excommunicated An example we reade therefore how the christian men at Constantinople would not cōmunicate with the Arianes neither in Sacramentes nor yet in commō praiers notwithstādyng that
the Arians did agree with the Christen menne in theim bothe as in all Sacramentes and in all poinctes of praiyng sauing that the Arians did sing Gloria patri in filio and the Christian menne Gloria patri filio c. And therfore and for that onely poinct Ihō Chrysostome then beyng Bishop of Constantinople did appoincte vnto the christian men a seperate place and maner of praier from them as it appeareth in the sixth of the Historie Ecclesiastike And therefore the notable doctour S. Augustine doth conclude on thys wise saiyng that they shall not communicate in Sacramētes with vs whose doctrine we cannot approue and allowe The aunswere Your third consideration standeth vppon a foolishe fallation of Sophistrie called petitio principij whiche is whē a man will take that as true whiche his aduersarie will not graunte hym As you doe in this your argument where you take that for a true principle whiche you shall neuer be able to proue namely that we are Heretikes and Schismatikes And so you committe double folie Firste in prouyng that so diligentely whiche no manne will deny whiche is that a manne ought not to communicate in religion with Heretikes and secondly in bringing no proofe at all of that which all your aduersaries wil deny namely that thei are Heretikes or Schismatikes For you must first prooue that thei are suche before you can proue that you ought to auoide their societie The Papiste The fowerth consideration is that the receiuyng of this new booke of seruice is a condemnation of the olde wherby is taken away 5. of the. 7. Sacramentes the reall presence of Christes body in the Sacramente of the alter the sacrifice of the masse many traditions of the Apostles as the holiyng of the Fonte oile and Chrisma in Baptisme and Confirmation the making of the signe of the Crosse praiers for the deade and vnto sainctes All sacramentall and godly cerimonies frequented in the vniuersal churche of Christe and brougt into this realme with the faithe of Christe by S. Augustine and here by hym established as suer signes and tokens of christian faieth like as the holy S. Bede witnesseth in his firste boke de gestis Anglorum in the 25.29.30 chapiters beside that all the foresaide thinges haue been alwaie approued vsed and allowed throughout the vniuersal church of christ And therfore saieth S. Augustine all these thinges whiche haue been receiued in the vniuersall Churche of Christe and approued by the vse and consente therof ought not to be ouerthrowen nor yet to be chaūged by the iudgemente of one priuate person be his learnyng and liuyng neuer so good nor yet by the Bishoppes of any one prouince or countrie when thereby they shoulde breake the vnitie of Gods spirite whiche is the chief treasure in his Churche commended by our sauiour Christe vnto his Apostles wishynge and praiynge the same vnitie to be amongest theim whiche was betwixt him and God Ioan 17 the father The Apostle S. Paule tought the Corinthians aboue all thinges to obserue this vnitie and willed the Romaines that with one minde and one mouth they shoulde glorifie god And in the Epistle to the Ephesians he besought theim most entirely to obserue this vnitie Again S. Augustine saieth these thinges whiche the vniuersall churche doth teache therfore are to be obserued and kepte of all menne because the churche which is the spouse of Christ hath the full aucthoritie of her husband Christ and suche gouernement also of the holy ghost that she cannot consent but to true thinges nor she cannot commaunde but onely suche thinges whiche are both holy holsome and good And farther the same S. Augustine saieth that in the ministratiō of the Sacramentes and in the manner of praiyng vsed of Preestes there must be an vniformitie obserued in Christes catholike Churche that by their Lawe and maner of praiyng there may be established the lawe of beleuyng And lest that the lawe and maner of praiyng being chaunged may also bring foorthe a chaunge and alteration of faieth like as it hath so proued in thys realme Beside that S. Ambrose doth thinke that there can not bee the faieth where Schisme is for albeit that schismatikes may haue faieth towardes God yet they cannot haue faieth towarde the Churche of God whom they suffer to bee dismembred and discerped in peeces For wheras our sauiour Christe suffered for his Churche and the Churche is the mysticall bodie of Christe how therfore may thei haue faith in christ by whom his Passion is made frustrate and his mysticall bodie drawen in peeces And therefore woulde not we shoulde chaunge an order set or a custome of Christes churche For albeit saieth he the reason or cause of a custome may be sought for yet must it be so sought for that the custome thereby be not infirmed or broken for the searche may not bee made vnto destruction but vnto aedification wherby thou maist better obserue the custome when thou arte assured of the cause and reason therof I do praise thee saieth Tertuliane whiche firste doeth beleue the custome to be obserued before it hath learned the cause and reason why and wherfore The aunswere In your fowerth consideration you should haue likewise considered that suche thynges as are graunted of bothe partes nede small proofe and that those matters whiche are in controuersie should be substancially cōfirmed As for example How necessarie vnitie is for the Churche of Christe no manne doubteth so it bee in truthe and not in falshed for there is vnitie emong the mooste wicked but not in truthe and honestie On the other side that there be fiue sacramentes more then the boke alloweth that there is a carnall presence in the Sacrament of the Lordes bodie and bloude that there is or ought to be a Sacrifice in the masse ye bring not one worde of proof Concernyng Ceremonies whiche you call traditions of the Apostles you saie in deede a little although to little purpose and yet so confusely and out of all good order that you seme rather to confounde then to instructe your simple reader for what an hochpotte is this in the middes of your Sacramentes and Sacramentalles to choppe in praiers for the deade and inuocation of sainctes whiche bée articles of doctrine and not Ceremoniall obseruations Againe when you haue rehersed by name diuers Ceremonies as oile and chrisme in Baptisme your maner of confirmation the signe of the Crosse and all other your Sacramentalls and Ceremonies you bryng in certain broken and vnperfecte sentences of Doctours whiche speake generally of Ceremonies vsed in the churche in their age and doe not shew that your Ceremonies were vsed then in suche maner as you vse them now which is a meere mockerie of your readers For wheras you doe comprehende thē all vnder the name of Traditions of the Apostles if you be a man of suche learning as you would seme to be I dare saie in your behalfe you will bee ashamed to come to triall of this poincte that
as scandalum acceptum but so geuen as scandalum datum of my parte And wher as it hath been often tymes obiected vnto me how that it is but a very small matter to sticke or staie at for to come to the Church and heare the saied seruice beyng set at libertie secretly and priuily to praie with my self whatsoeuer I shall thinke mete for he aunswere I doe reade in the Scriptures howe Eleazarus the Preest is in the same commended because he would not dissemble the eatyng of swynes fleshe wheras he might haue escaped the paynes of death therby Tertulliane writeth a booke in the praise of a Souldiar and entituleth his boke de corona militis because that Souldiar refused in natali die Seueri imperatoris to weare but a Garlande of flowers vpōn his heade because he should therin then haue followed the maner of the gentiles and heathen people And rather or he would do so small a mattet as to weare but a Garland of flowers he did suffer inprisonment and therfore is commended of so greate a clerke as Tertullian was Theodoritus in hys second booke of the historie Ecclesiastike in Cap. 24. doth note Leontius Bishoppe of Antioche of greate dissimulation for as much as he beyng present in the quire at Antioche and in the hearing of christian men there to sing Gloria patri filio c. and the Arians Gloria patri in filio c. Contrariwise he did there openly take nether partie but priuily at the ende of euery psalme did sing Gloria pari in saecula saeculorum Amen And so he mumbled it vp to hym selfe vt ab instantibus vix audiri posset whose example therfore beyng so manifest and so well admonished therof I purpose not to followe God willyng VVhen to dissemble with a mā I hold it no honestly to dissemble with my Prince it is the iuste deserte of perpetuall discredite and infamie but to dissemble with God it is most impietie from the whiche detestable sinne I am vtterly resolued by the word god spoken by the mouth of Helias saiyng Vsquequo claudicatis in duas partes How long will you halte or limpe on both sides And S. Ihon in his reuelation saieth Because thou arte neither whot nor colde therfore I shall beginne now to vomit and cast thee out of my mouth The premisses well waighed it cannot be iustly saied that I sticke at a trifling or small matter but a matter of greate importance and conscience moueth me therunto and forceth me that I shoulde not vnaduisedly without greate cause seperate my self from the vnity of the Churche neither to condēne the vniuersal church vnheard hauing no iust or weightie cause why I should so doe For I haue alwaies and doe thus waigh the matter with my selfe that the poinctes and matters of religion which this boke of seruice hath condemned or taken awaie ether thei were thought matters of smal importāce and did no harme but being rightly vnderstanded might haue doen good or els thei were to be taken for matters of impietie and intollerable to be borne withal In case thei were of the firste sorte whiche thei haue condemned and abolished Then in my iudgement they should haue been tolerated and borne withall for charities sake and for the continuance and encrease of vnitie betwixte vs and the vniuersall Church of christendom On the other side in case thei had been taken for matters intollerable and could in no wise haue been borne with all for their impietie as it hath been pretended then yet in my cōscience we ought to haue been better aduised then by our priuate condemnation of theim to haue shewed our selfe to condemne thereby al the whole vniuersall church of impietie vnheard which thinges the vniuersall church hath vsed from the Apostles time and doe to this daie As touching matters of right faieth and godly maners the churche of Christe beyng the spouse of Christ was neuer destitute of the holy ghost neither could nor woulde in all this tyme haue borne or dissembled any impietie like as S. Augustine writeth hereof The Church of God beyng placed and put among muche chaffe and many Cockles and wedes the same church doth suffer and beare with many thinges yet that notwithstandyng touchyng the thinges whiche are against faithe and against good life the Churche doth neither approue theim nor yet lette theim escape vnspoken against The aunswere In that you will not dissemble against your conscience if you doe not dissemble but speake as you thinke you are to bee commended but if your conscience as you saie is not yet perswaded you are by no meanes to bée excused for in this so cleare light of the Gospell you could not bee so blind if you did not obstinately close your iyes from receiuyng the Sunne beames into theim And whereas you thinke it not reason to departe from the vnitie of the churche nor to condemne the vniuersall Churche vnheard you stande vpon a false grounde as you dooe alwaies that the Popishe Churche is that vniuersall Churche but that you shall neuer be able to proue For was the Popishe churche at any tyme or is it nowe vniuersalle But the Romishe churche you will saie is alwaies vniuersall though it haue neuer so many enemies But I can shewe you by saincte Augustines iudgemente that the vniuersall Churche maie bee without the Romishe churche For writyng to Casulane Epi. 86. he hath these woordes speakyng of one that defended the Ceremonies custome of the Romishe churche against the whole catholike Churche Quod vtinam sic quaereret aut sic affirmaret vt toto terrarum orbe diffusam exceptis Romanis adhuc paucis occidentalibus apertissimè nō blasphemaret ecclesiam that is to saie whiche thyng I would he did seeke in suche maner or so affirme that he did not moste manifestly thereby blaspheme the churche dispersed through out the whole worlde excepte the Romanes and a fewe other Westerne Churches Doe you not here see that when the Romishe churche with a fewe other that agréed with her are exempted the vniuersall churche of Christe still remaineth by sainct Augustines iudgemente and that if the Romishe Churche departe from the whole Catholike Churche the Romishe Churche is a Schismatike as it is at this daie and hath been a long time euen since Antichriste sette vp his seate there and made a generall departyng from the faith of Christ which sainct Paule prophesieth should come to passe ij Thessal ij All the whiche tyme though there were but few that continued in true faithe and honouryng of God yet those fewe wheresoeuer thei were scattered in all the worlde wer the true catholike Churche of Christ and were alwaies ioigned together in Christe their heade by vnitie of true religion And whereas you saie your Churche is vnhearde I maruaile what you meane for what can the Pope or any of her proctours saie in her defence but it hath been hearde and confuted by the scriptures Whiche thing hath caused the most part
of the regions of Europe this daie to forsake your Hereticall Schismaticall and Antichristian Churche of Rome and to ioigne them selues to the true Catholike and Apostolike churche of Christ whiche approueth all her doctrine out of the holie Scriptures and by the same reproueth all your heresies and erronious opinions the iudgement and triall of whiche holy Canonicall scriptures you neuer yet durst abide It is not therefore any priuate condemnation whiche is pronounced out of Gods woorde against heresies whose aucthoritie in all thynges is highest and of al menne to bee obeied Finally where you affirme that the churche of Christe was not destitute of the holy Ghoste I agree with you but that your Churche is the Churche of Christe I maie in no wise acknowledge And truthe it is that the true Churche did alwaies reclaime against the heresies of your church as thei sprong vp and increased in the worlde and receiued that reward whiche true Prophetes haue accustomed to receiue of wicked tyrantes namely persecution imprisonmente and cruell death as appeared in Bertramus Marsilius of Padua Pauperes de Lugduno Iohannes de Gandauo Bruno Andegauensis Iohannes Wickleue Iohannes Hus Hieronimus de Praga c. all whiche with many other in seuerall times places reproued and confuted your false Churche and the errours thereof some in Italie some in Fraunce some in Flaunders some in Germanie some in Bohemia and some in Englande and for the moste part were either murthered or otherwise cruelly persecuted for their labours But yet the heresies of your church did not escape vnspoken against and confuted by them The Papiste The sixte and laste consideration that I come not to their churche is because I am not of their Churche S. Augustine in putting difference of churches saieth how vnto them whiche haue not all one Sacramētes there can not be one religion nor consequently one Churche And the cause why I am not of their Churche but refuse to communicate with theym in religion besides this saiyng of S. Augustine that we should not Communicate in sacramentes with those men whose doctrine we can not aproue and allow I do refuse to be of their church because I cannot learne nor vnderstande of what church they are of For thei beyng first Baptized in the catholike churche and in the very self faieth and religion wherin I do at this present time beleue and remaine thei are departed therefro some to the Lutheranes Church some to the Zwinglians and comyng last of al to the church Geneua they are in maner fled from that church also and by attributing the chief supreme gouernment of this their English churche vnto the Quenes highnes thei are in doctrine directly against their old maister Caluine being the chief Apostle of the Church of Geneua whiche Caluine in the eight Chapter of the boke of his institutions doth directlie reason against Kynges and Princes for takyng vpon theim spirituall gouernment in the Church of Christ and in the same Chapiter he doeth muche commende the holy Bishop S. Ambrose and the noble Emperour Theodosius Ambrose for his greate stoutnes and resistance made against the Emperour And Theodosius for his greate submission and obediens shewed vnto the Bishop The history whereof is at large expressed in Ecclesiastica historia And the saide Caluine in hys exposition vppon the fowerth Chapiter of the prophete Amos doth taxe King Henry the eight by name because he alone of all other Princes was the first that toke vpon hym in the Church of Christ spirituall gouernmēt whose example in that poinct there was neuer one Prince in all Germanie nor yet in any place els where of the whole world that woulde followe the same but his owne naturall sonne Kyng Edward the sixte beyng then in his minoritie and againe the Queenes highnes that nowe is If therfore I shall departe from the comon knowen catholike Church wherin I stand I would gladly knowe of theim vnto what Church I shoulde repaire to be instructed with out errours wherin vnitie charitie and veritie doe dwel what forme of a churche are thei able to shew wherupon a christian man may be bolde to assure himselfe And if peraduenture they cease not ro pretende that the Primitiue Churche is that plat forme of the Churche wherunto they would reduce vs I answere that there be so many poinctes wherein they doe dissent from the Primitiue Churche like as I shall make sufficient proofe thereof that it can not be so it is onely pretended but it shall neuer be proued The Anabaptistes the Libertines and the Arians doe pretende gods worde and the Primitiue Churche as well as thei And because they are so bolde to name the primitiue church I aske of theim but this one questiō whether that this daie 50. or 60. yeres laste paste was their Church here in this realme or in any other parte of christendome VVhat particuler Church either here in Englande in the laste yere of Kyng Henry the eight his raigne or any other realme els can thei name that taught or receiued vniuersally throughout in all poinctes the doctrine that this presente Churche of Englande doeth now teache or from that daie a thousande yeres before that or from thence vnto the tyme of Christe and his Apostles If thei can not shewe any one suche Churche as I am well assured thei shall neuer be able to doe then it muste nedes followe that either Christe had no Church in the worlde al that tyme till now their commyng or elles it muste needes follow that their Churche is a new inuented and vpstert Church whiche with christes Primitiue church hath no agreans like as it shall moste plainly appeare vnto you by these profes followyng The aunswere In your laste consideration you doe inconsiderately alledge that you are not of our Churche but shewe no sufficient reason why you ought not to bee one of our Churche You saie we are departed from the churche in whiche we were baptised as though if a manne were Baptised in a Churche of heretikes he is bounde to remaine in the same Churche and heretical faithe of that Churche in whiche he was baptised so that if a manne were baptised in the Churche of Arrianes Nouatianes Donatistes Pelagians he might not forsake the faithe and Churche in whiche he was baptised to become a true Christian catholike A childe of seuen yere old maie see how slender a reason it is for a manne to continue in any Churche or Religion because he receiued baptisme therin For if a Papist maie not become a Protestāt because he was Baptised in the Popishe churche by the same reason a Protestant must not become a Papist if he were baptised in the Protestantes Churche which you your self by no meanes will graunte The seconde reason you bryng is of the diuersitye of churches the Lutherane the Zwingliane the Geneuian As though the diuersitie of some opinions not of the greatest importāce maketh diuers churches The churche of Salisburie the churche
it is Prophesied in the xij Chapiter of sainct Ihons Reuelation And yet for fiftie or sixtie yere agone it had been no harde matter to haue shewed you diuers members of our Churche bothe in Englande in Bohemia as th' historie of the church declareth at large Also in Fraunce at Merindoll and about Lyōs but these you will saie agreed not with vs in all poinctes but I will aunswere you thei agréed in the cheifest poinctes necessary to eternall saluation For whatsoeuer we are able to shewe for our Churche I am sure you are neuer able to shewe your self for your churche that whiche you require vs to shewe namely a churche that hath continued from this tyme vpwarde vnto the Apostles that taught vniformely and in all poinctes the doctrine that the Popishe Churche nowe teacheth Whiche thyng when you haue performed I will doe the like for oure Churche In the meane time that whiche is a sufficiente rule to finde out the true Churche by the iudgement of Saincte Augustine I will declare vnto you In his booke the vnitate ecclesiae Capi. 2. Inter nos autem Donatistat quaestio est vbi sit ecclesia Quid ergo facturi sumus In verbis nostris eam quaesituri sumus an in verbis capitis sui domini nostri Iesu Christi Puto quod in illius potius verbis eam quaerere debemus qui veritas est optimè nouit corpus suum Betwene vs and the Donatistes saieth saincte Augustine the question is where the churche should bée What shall we doe then shall we seke her in our wordes or in the woordes of her heade our Lorde Iesus Christ I thinke that rather in his wordes we ought to seke her which is the truthe and beste knoweth his own bodie And in the. xvj chapiter of the same booke he writeth thus of the Donatistes Vtrum ipsi ecclesiam teneant non nisi diuinarū scripturarum canonicis libris ostendant That is whether thei haue the churche on their side let theim shewe none otherwise but by the Canonicall bookes of holy scriptures Many other suche testimonies are in S. Augustine by whiche it is plaine that he geueth this infallible rule to knowe the true churche to examine the doctrine therof onely by the scriptures But wheras you saie that Anabaptistes Libertines and Arians pretende the word of god and the primitiue Churche what meane you therby that we should forsake the worde of god the Primitiue churche by whiche all heretikes haue béen cōfuted what soeuer thei pretended For though heretikes pretende the scriptures yet onely by the scriptures thei are to be cōfuted though thei appeale to the iudgemente of the primitiue church yet by the primitiue church thei are condemned for heretikes I maie as well say that Arianes Libertines and Anabaptistes boste them selues to be the true Catholike Churche therefore wee must not allowe the true catholike churche It is pitie to see menne that would be coumpted wise and learned to reason so fondly and vnlearnedly For of all other reasons it is the vainest and feeblest shift that the Papistes vse to flie frō the scriptures to the aucthoritie of the Churche in confutation of heresies For there was neuer yet heresie did arise but there was as greate controuersie of the Churche as of the opinion for euery heretike boasteth as well of the Churche as of the scriptures but when all is dooen his bragges of bothe muste bee beaten doune onely by the scriptures But because you make so proude vauntes that you will so plainlie proue that our Churche hath none agreans with the primitiue churche of Christ in discourse of that controuersie with you I will sette for the bothe what is the Primitiue churche and how we agree therewith and I doubte not but that I shal bee able by the grace of God bothe to iustifie our cause againste your false accusations and also to ouerthrowe youre falshodde whiche you haue heaped vppe to ouerwhelme the truthe And as I haue confuted your sixe considerations which vnto you seme of greate importaunce so by Gods helpe I shall auoide all other youre calumniations in whiche with some subtiltie but more impudencie and moste of all impietie you goe aboute to intangle the consciences of suche as bee ignorante and vnlearned to withdrawe their obedience ▪ from the godly lawes of this realme whiche are established for the mainteinyng of Gods true Religion and the abolishyng of all Idolatrie and superstition The Papiste Argumentes gathered out of the Scriptures prouyng that this late reformed Englishe churche hath none agreans with the Primitiue churche of Christ. The aunswere The very title of your argumentes declareth of what force youre argumentes are Your reasons are tenne in noumber whiche if thei were all graūted to be true yet foloweth not this conclusion that our Churche hath no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe excepte you would affirme that all the doctrine of the Primitiue Churche were comprehended in these tenne poinctes Again your owne Popishe Churche differeth in these tenne poinctes as muche from the Primitiue Churche as ours therefore by your owne Logike I will conclude that your Popish churche hath no agreance with the church of Christ. 1. For neither you haue all thinges common 2. neither dooe you sell your houses and landes to putte the price in common 3. Neither doe you make diuision to euery manne accordyng to his necessitie 4. Neither are all mēbers of your Churche so prouided for that none dooe begge 5. Neither doe you baptise onely in the name of Christe 6. Neither dooe you giue the holy ghost by laiyng on your handes 7. Neither dooe you restore theim to health whom you annoincte with oile beyng sicke 8. Neither dooe you make open confession of your synnes 9. Neither dooe you celebrate the Sacramente after supper 10. Neither dooe you abstaine from bloodde and strangled therefore by your owne reason you haue no agreance with the Primitiue Churche of Christe Or if you maie haue any agreance these differences notwithstanding why maie not we the same differences nothyng lettyng vs haue sufficient agremente therewith You see that either your argument is nothyng worthe or els you haue as little agreance with the Primatiue churche as we Your only refuge is this that it is not necessary for you to haue any agreance with the primitiue Churche And that is the opinion of all Papistes whiche is diligently to be noted that you disclaime of al title of the Primitiue Churche whiche you holde was but an infante and by addition of your doctrine and Ceremonies is growne to bee of womannes state As though Christ maried his Churche when she was vnder age and so the matrimonie was not ratified and consumated before the Pope had nourtured her in his schole vntill she came to yeres of discretion For it is as lawfull for me so to inferre vppon your allegorie as for you so to allegorise of her But that you maie the better vnderstande what
néedes thruste in so long a tale and the same to dilate with all the circumstaunces whereas you had no leasure to note the places of your Doctours that ye alledge in good earneste But now sir sauyng your tale and to applie it to the purpose If maister Molande as he rehersed some faultes of whiche perhappes his horse was free so he had recited all the faultes that maie be in any horse and denied theim all to bee in his horse might not Clare the Butcher haue boughte a good horse of him by negatiues But maister Molande like a subtile Sophister repeateth a many of his defaultes and suppresseth as many or more and so he begileth poore Clare the Butcher And this Sophistrie of maister Molande is youre Logike throughout all your treatise of a fewe particulars to inferre an vniuersal And this your Iade belike you thoughte to sell vnto some as simple as Clare the Butcher that could no more discerne of your diuinitie then Clare the Butcher could sée of maister Molandes Sophistrie Or els if you mente good faithe as you do pretende I must nedes saie to quitte your tale that if Clare wer not a better Butcher then you shewe your self to be a Logicien or diuine you might bothe procede in one facultie and maister Molande bee your presenter For as he solde his horse by negatiues so you haue proued that all our Religion standeth wholie vppon negatiues that we denie all thinges and affirme nothyng The Papiste Dewe obiections made againste the premisses For wheras ye haue saiede the religion of this newe reformed Churche to stande wholy by negatiues in affirmynge no one thyng more then was before vsed in the Catholike churche of Christe howe vntrue this is who seeth not when the religion of this newe reformed Church doth affirme and hath brought in many thinges as good godly and lawfull whiche before were straightly denied The aunswere It must néedes be a clerkely disputatiō wher you maie be both opponent respōdent your self wher you maie make argumētes for vs and make answere for your self But as he that aunswereth if he gett the victorie ouerthroweth him that opposeth so you taking vpon you to oppose and aunswere your self you can ouerthrowe none other but your owne self But neuer a one of these fiue obiections is holden of vs in maner and forme as it is propounded of you And therfore I would desire you henceforwarde to defende youre owne matters aswell as you can for you shall gette neither money nor thankes to plaie the Proctor for vs. The Papiste Firste it dooeth affirme that it is lawfull and bothe good and godly that Priestes shoulde take wiues and beyng firste made Priestes it is lawfull to marie The aunswere We affirme that it is vnlawfull that any manne should bee bounde to sole life whiche hath not the gifte of continence And that marriage is as honourable in ecclesiasticall ministers as in al other men whether thei were married before thei were called to that office or to whether thei marrie afterwarde Hebre. xiij j. Timoth. iij. and Tite j. The Papiste Seconde it dooeth affirme that Freers Monkes and Nonnes after their vowes made solemnely vnto God of their chaste and cōtinent life that it is lawful for theim to mary together and holde the same to be good and lawfull wedlocke The aunswere Wee affirme that who soeuer hath made a rashe and vnaduised vowe of continence whiche he is not able to keepe ought to repente him of his rashenes and rather to marrie then to burne j. Cor. 7. The Papiste Thirde it doeth affirme that a man beyng deuorced from his wise for fornicatiō may therupon marie againe and take another and so it is lawfull for hym to haue twoo wiues a liue the one in the bedde the other diuorced The aunswere Wee affirme that thei whiche are lawfully deuorced for adulterie are no more housebande and wife For the knot of marriage by lawfull deuorsemente is cleane dissolued and therefore a manne so deuorsed maie marrie and not haue twoo wiues at ones accordyng to the doctrine and right vnderstandyng of our Sauiour Christes wordes Math. v. and xix The Papiste Fowerth it doeth affirme Breade ad wine to bee the whole substaunce of the Eucharistie after the consecration The aunswere Wee affirme accordyng to the scriptures and faithe of the Churche for a thousande yeres after Christe that breade and wine remaine in the Sacrament and are necessarie there to remaine that it maie bée a Sacramente for the woorde muste come to the Elemente and so make it a Sacrament But we doe not affirme that breade and wine is the whole substaunce of the Sacrament but the bodie and blood of Christe receiued by faithe is the principall parte thereof as in Baptisme the outward Element is water but the principall part thereof is the pourgyng of our sinnes by the secrete and wōderfull workyng of the holie ghoste the Papiste Fifte it doth affirme that onely faieth iustifieth and that faieth alone is sufficient to procure and purchase for vs gods grace and mercie for the time of this present life and at the ende and terme therof life euerlastyng Beside many other like diuerse thinges that the religion of this newe reformed churche doth affirme as thinges lawfull and haue brought theim into this realme as thinges good and godly The aunswere Wee affirme that the free mercie of God in Christ is the efficient cause of our iustification whiche mercie we apprehēde by none other hande or instrumente but by faithe But that either faithe dooeth procure or purchase Gods grace or mercie by any whorthinesse of it wee vtterly denie as also that onely faithe is sufficiēte for a christian man when we teache that this faith by which we are iustified is not a solitarie faith but of necessitie accompanied with many vertues good workes although by receiuyng Goddes mercie no workes but onely faithe doeth iustifie vs. The Papiste An answere against the obiections For aunswere beside that there is no one of their affirmatiōs now by theim brought that maketh any thing ad cultum diuinum to the seruice and honouryng of god wherin true religion doth consiste as it is before proued by the diffinition therof geuen by Augustine al their affirmations doe include some negatiōs of a farre more better thing then is brought in by their affirmations The aunswere But euen nowe in the latter ende of the firste obiection you confesse that wee affirme many other thynges beside these fiue whiche you haue rehersed And now as though we had no other affirmations you conclude as your maner is that no one of our affirmatiōs maketh any thyng ad cultum diuinum to gods seruice and that all our affirmations doe include a negation of a farre better thing then is brought in by them So that when wee affirme all the articles of the Crede none of theim perteineth to Goddes seruice but rather include a negation of a farre better thing When we affirme