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cause_n church_n pope_n rome_n 4,587 5 6.8117 4 true
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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A00919 A Catholike confutation of M. Iohn Riders clayme of antiquitie and a caulming comfort against his caueat. In which is demonstrated, by assurances, euen of protestants, that al antiquitie, for al pointes of religion in controuersie, is repugnant to protestancie. Secondly, that protestancie is repugnant particularlie to al articles of beleefe. Thirdly, that puritan plots are pernitious to religion, and state. And lastly, a replye to M. Riders Rescript; with a discouerie of puritan partialitie in his behalfe. By Henry Fitzimon of Dublin in Irland, of the Societie of Iesus, priest.; Catholike confutation of M. John Riders clayme of antiquitie. Fitzsimon, Henry, b. 1566.; Rider, John, 1562-1632. Rescript.; Rider, John, 1562-1632. Friendly caveat to Irelands Catholicks. 1608 (1608) STC 11025; ESTC S102272 591,774 580

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when_o shadow_n be_v change_v into_o substance_n and_o truth_n how_o can_v any_o thing_n more_o apt_o be_v apply_v unto_o they_o then_o by_o say_v they_o have_v leave_v the_o bread_n snatch_v the_o shadow_n and_o lose_v the_o bait_n 64._o but_o first_o i_o must_v tell_v you_o the_o word_n be_v new_a rider_n rider_n neither_o use_v by_o christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n in_o the_o institution_n of_o the_o sacrament_n nor_o hear_v of_o in_o any_o ancient_a father_n for_o many_o hundred_o year_n after_o christ_n again_o never_o read_v in_o any_o author_n sacred_a or_o profane_a that_o consecration_n shall_v signify_v to_o change_v one_o substance_n into_o another_o for_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o word_n will_v not_o bear_v it_o now_o see_v by_o christ_n or_o his_o apostle_n paul_n it_o be_v not_o use_v nor_o ancient_a father_n ever_o take_v it_o in_o this_o sense_n again_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o word_n have_v no_o such_o signification_n i_o see_v not_o but_o you_o deserve_v much_o blame_n in_o bind_v the_o catholic_n conscience_n to_o believe_v that_o which_o be_v against_o divinity_n antiquity_n and_o common_a sense_n now_o gentleman_n pardon_v i_o to_o demand_v of_o you_o but_o this_o question_n what_o word_n be_v they_o that_o consecrat_v that_o be_v which_o turn_v the_o substance_n of_o bread_n and_o wine_n into_o the_o natural_a and_o substantial_a body_n and_o blood_n of_o christ_n i_o think_v i_o hear_v you_o jesuit_n and_o priest_n call_v i_o a_o fool_n for_o demand_v such_o a_o question_n credit_n such_o father_n as_o live_v next_o to_o christ_n time_n shall_v know_v best_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n &_o these_o father_n you_o refuse_v and_o choose_v other_o a_o thousand_o year_n young_a &_o therefore_o they_o be_v of_o less_o credit_n consider_v as_o you_o pretend_v that_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o their_o learned_a man_n have_v ever_o from_o christ_n time_n hold_v with_o one_o consent_n one_o manner_n of_o consecration_n with_o a_o certain_a set_a number_n of_o word_n without_o addition_n or_o alteration_n and_o therefore_o my_o question_n be_v frivolous_a and_o needless_a and_o no_o doubt_n you_o make_v your_o catholic_n believe_v so_o but_o alas_o you_o deceive_v they_o it_o be_v not_o so_o for_o i_o will_v show_v you_o many_o several_a opinion_n among_o your_o learned_a man_n yea_o pope_n themselves_o one_o contrary_a to_o another_o i_o pray_v you_o let_v i_o and_o the_o catholic_n of_o this_o kingdom_n therefore_o be_v certify_v and_o satisfy_v by_o god_n word_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o primitive_a church_n for_o the_o first_o six_o hundred_o year_n which_o be_v the_o word_n of_o consecration_n that_o work_v this_o miraculous_a alteration_n of_o substance_n which_o if_o you_o can_v prove_v as_o i_o be_o sure_a you_o can_v then_o the_o catholic_n have_v good_a cause_n to_o look_v to_o their_o conscience_n and_o to_o
some_o other_o quality_n lest_o the_o receiver_n shall_v abhor_v raw_a and_o bloody_a thing_n and_o that_o believe_v they_o shall_v receive_v great_a reward_n of_o their_o faith_n this_o faith_n church_n which_o disperse_v through_o out_o the_o world_n be_v call_v catholic_a hold_v from_o old_a time_n &_o now_o hold_v you_o behowld_v he_o of_o set_v purpose_n to_o deliver_v the_o ancient_a faith_n to_o affirm_v the_o change_n into_o the_o essence_n of_o christ_n body_n the_o accident_n to_o remain_v the_o cause_n of_o not_o seem_v what_o be_v contain_v plain_o express_v the_o same_o to_o have_v ever_o before_o and_o then_o be_v the_o belief_n of_o the_o catholic_a church_n as_o be_v now_o by_o we_o believe_v what_o think_v you_o two_o such_o holy_a archbishop_n of_o canterbury_n be_v they_o not_o more_o worthy_a of_o credit_n than_o m._n rider_n alas_o it_o be_v a_o shameful_a demand_n to_o be_v have_v in_o controversy_n since_o therefore_o he_o be_v not_o worthy_a to_o be_v their_o chaplin_n equal_a will_v he_o not_o blush_v if_o his_o forehead_n be_v not_o of_o brass_n to_o tell_v hencfoorth_o our_o doctrine_n not_o to_o have_v be_v ever_o the_o same_o in_o the_o catholic_n church_n 73._o that_o in_o the_o pope_n court_n and_o in_o his_o consistory_n rider_n rider_n there_o be_v diverse_a opinion_n touch_v transubstansiation_n yet_o the_o denial_n of_o it_o or_o the_o contradict_v of_o the_o pope_n opinion_n be_v death_n be_v denial_n of_o transubstantiation_n in_o rome_n be_v no_o death_n no_o death_n though_o in_o those_o merciless_a day_n of_o spanish_a philip_n and_o romish_a marie_n it_o be_v make_v the_o thirteen_o article_n of_o our_o faith_n and_o it_o have_v be_v less_o danger_n to_o have_v deny_v those_o twelve_o old_a article_n of_o our_o old_a faith_n than_o this_o one_o of_o your_o new_a faith_n for_o the_o one_o be_v dispense_v with_o for_o money_n but_o the_o denial_n of_o the_o other_o be_v punish_v with_o death_n without_o mercy_n but_o you_o will_v reply_v and_o say_v not_o withstand_v the_o dissension_n aforesaid_a yet_o christ_n word_n be_v true_a he_o can_v lie_v he_o have_v say_v hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la this_o be_v my_o body_n therefore_o it_o be_v his_o body_n 73._o i_o report_v i_o to_o all_o consideration_n fitzsimon_n fitzsimon_n whether_o they_o ever_o observe_v a_o style_n less_o steel_v as_o i_o say_v before_o or_o more_o frivolouse_a what_o may_v i_o imagine_v to_o awnswer_v to_o such_o pregnant_a untruethe_n in_o the_o pope_n court_n and_o consistory_n in_o this_o point_n there_o be_v dissension_n of_o opinion_n under_o spanish_a philipp_n and_o romish_n marie_n transubstantiatoin_n be_v make_v a_o thirteen_o article_n of_o belief_n he_o immediate_o tell_v it_o be_v make_v under_o innocent_a the_o three_o who_o live_v 300._o year_n before_o philipp_n &_o marie_n then_o dispensation_n to_o have_v be_v grawnt_v for_o money_n concern_v all_o other_o article_n of_o belief_n etc._n etc._n the_o least_o that_o i_o can_v do_v be_v to_o score_v up_o of_o so_o many_o the_o 76._o untruth_n untruth_n the_o 76._o untruth_n 74._o we_o confess_v these_o word_n to_o be_v christ_n word_n and_o therefore_o true_a rider_n rider_n but_o the_o literal_a sense_n be_v you_o and_o therefore_o false_a but_o that_o i_o will_v not_o be_v tedious_a unto_o you_o i_o can_v show_v you_o as_o many_o several_a opinion_n dissent_v about_o the_o meaning_n of_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la and_o corpus_fw-la as_o i_o have_v do_v in_o the_o premise_n but_o that_o the_o catholic_n shall_v know_v there_o be_v no_o such_o unity_n not_o verity_n in_o your_o doctrine_n as_o you_o confident_o but_o untrulie_o have_v teach_v they_o therefore_o i_o will_v give_v they_o but_o a_o taste_n till_o some_o other_o time_n only_o point_v you_o and_o they_o to_o their_o author_n and_o place_n and_o then_o read_v advisedlie_o and_o judge_v without_o partial_a affection_n this_o friar_n you_o hear_v late_o recite_v your_o several_a jar_n touch_v consecration_n 116._o josephus_n angle_n do_v essentialibus_fw-la euch._n pag._n 114._o 115._o 116._o now_o hear_v he_o with_o your_o patience_n to_o deliver_v he_o &_o other_o several_a opinion_n touch_v the_o exposition_n of_o these_o three_o word_n severallie_o hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la the_o first_o opinion_n be_v that_o this_o demonstrative_a pronoune_n hoc_fw-la must_v be_v refer_v not_o to_o the_o bread_n josephus_n 1._o josephus_n but_o to_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n that_o this_o shall_v be_v the_o sense_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la etc._n etc._n id_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la that_o be_v this_o my_o body_n be_v my_o body_n but_o how_o absurd_a this_o be_v let_v the_o young_a sophister_n in_o the_o school_n give_v their_o censure_n 17._o 2._o bonaventura_n 3._o occam_n in_o lib._n 4._o 1._o s._n thom._n 2._o ricar_n 3._o scotus_n nec_fw-la panem_fw-la nec_fw-la corpus_fw-la sub_fw-la ratione_fw-la corporis_fw-la sed_fw-la corpus_fw-la christi_fw-la sub_fw-la ratione_fw-la entis_fw-la vel_fw-la individui_fw-la etc._n etc._n lib._n 4._o pag._n 182_o de_fw-la sacro_fw-la altaris_fw-la mysterio_fw-la cap._n 17._o but_o the_o second_o opinion_n be_v of_o bonaventura_n who_o say_v this_o pronoune_n hoc_fw-la must_v be_v refer_v to_o the_o bread_n that_o must_v be_v convert_v into_o christ_n body_n but_o not_o to_o christ_n body_n the_o three_o opinion_n be_v occhams_n and_o he_o be_v of_o opinion_n with_o the_o first_o there_o follow_v three_o other_o learned_a man_n opinion_n contrary_a to_o all_o the_o former_a and_o say_v flat_o that_o this_o demonstrative_a hoc_fw-la must_v not_o be_v refer_v to_o note_v either_o the_o bread_n or_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n but_o that_o this_o may_v be_v the_o sense_n hoc_fw-la ens_fw-la vel_fw-la hac_fw-la substantia_fw-la quae_fw-la continetur_fw-la sub_fw-la speciebus_fw-la etc._n etc._n this_o thing_n or_o this_o substance_n which_o be_v contain_v under_o the_o accident_n of_o bread_n be_v my_o body_n but_o how_o well_o these_o opinion_n with_o their_o strange_a logical_a manner_n of_o reason_v will_v content_v the_o learned_a priest_n &_o jesuit_n i_o will_v fain_o know_v for_o this_o i_o be_o sure_a they_o sound_v not_o either_o of_o divinity_n or_o learning_n but_o this_o friar_n for_o a_o farewell_n conclude_v pag._n 118._o pronomen_fw-la hoc_fw-la nihil_fw-la this_o pronoune_n hoc_fw-la signify_v nothing_o till_o the_o last_o syllable_n they_o be_v pronounce_v pag._n hoc_fw-la nihil_fw-la demonstrate_v in_o the_o same_o pag._n pope_n innocentius_n the_o three_o say_v that_o hoc_fw-la signify_v neither_o bread_n nor_o christ_n body_n because_o the_o whole_a word_n of_o consecration_n be_v not_o speak_v unless_o say_v he_o you_o will_v say_v the_o priest_n consecrate_v at_o this_o word_n benedixit_fw-la he_o bless_v but_o the_o pope_n say_v hoc_fw-la signify_v nothing_o and_o his_o reason_n be_v that_o the_o priest_n show_v or_o note_v nothing_o because_o he_o use_v hoc_fw-la est_fw-la etc._n etc._n not_o by_o way_n of_o demonstration_n but_o by_o way_n of_o cursory_a repetion_n priest_n mark_v this_o you_o jesuit_n and_o priest_n so_o then_o this_o pope_n will_v have_v this_o sense_n hoc_fw-la est_fw-la corpus_fw-la meum_fw-la that_o be_v nothing_o be_v my_o body_n but_o in_o the_o three_o of_o the_o last_o line_n of_o that_o chapter_n his_o wisdom_n change_v his_o mind_n and_o say_v this_o be_v my_o body_n that_o be_v what_o soever_o be_v under_o the_o form_n of_o bread_n be_v my_o body_n be_v not_o this_o think_v you_o deep_a divinity_n for_o a_o pope_n you_o may_v see_v hereein_o how_o the_o pope_n use_v shameful_a shift_n to_o cover_v his_o sensible_a error_n and_o to_o deceive_v christ_n little_a flock_n con._n in_o his_o marc._n anton._n con._n stephen_n gardner_n live_v but_o late_o see_v every_o man_n opinion_n expound_v what_o hoc_fw-la shall_v be_v he_o dislike_v they_o all_o and_o faith_n it_o signify_v individuum_fw-la vagum_fw-la as_o if_o christ_n have_v say_v this_o but_o what_o it_o be_v i_o can_v tell_v but_o it_o must_v of_o necessity_n be_v some_o what_o be_v my_o body_n ibidem_fw-la de_fw-fr consec_fw-fr do_v 2._o can_n timorem_fw-la glossa_fw-la ibidem_fw-la but_o i_o will_v conclude_v with_o your_o own_o pope_n canon_n and_o gloss_n which_o you_o hold_v for_o canonical_a though_o in_o deed_n heretical_a solet_fw-la quaeri_fw-la quid_fw-la demonstratur_fw-la per_fw-la pronomen_fw-la hoc_fw-la it_o be_v a_o common_a question_n what_o be_v mean_v by_o this_o pronoune_n this_o whether_o bread_n or_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n not_o bread_n for_o that_o be_v not_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n nor_o yet_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n for_o it_o appereath_v not_o that_o there_o be_v any_o transubstansiation_n till_o the_o word_n be_v all_o pronounce_v yea_o the_o last_o fillable_n they_o to_o this_o question_n this_o must_v be_v answer_v that_o by_o the_o word_n this_o nothing_o be_v mean_v but_o it_o be_v there_o put_v
less_o frivolous_a they_o impertinent_a that_o wicked_a his_o that_o opinion_n that_o by_o falsification_n must_v be_v mantayn_v i_o think_v to_o be_v most_o true_a i_o will_v it_o have_v not_o only_o be_v marginal_a but_o also_o textual_a as_o be_v more_o important_a and_o pertinent_a than_o any_o other_o part_n of_o all_o this_o discourse_n 4.25_o ephes._n 4.25_o for_o the_o which_o cause_n say_v the_o apostle_n lay_v away_o lie_v speak_v you_o truth_n every_o one_o with_o his_o neighbour_n but_o in_o this_o case_n i_o can_v not_o entreat_v you_o to_o omit_v it_o 73._o s._n basil_n ep_v 10._o vide_fw-la &_o ep_v 73._o first_o because_o as_o s._n basil_n in_o a_o like_a case_n say_v mihi_fw-la illud_fw-la diomedis_n subit_fw-la dicere_fw-la ne_fw-la prec●ris_fw-la quoniam_fw-la vir_fw-la est_fw-la improbus_fw-la nam_fw-la procul_fw-la du●to_fw-la cum_fw-la lenius_fw-la tractantur_fw-la animi_fw-la elati_fw-la solito_fw-la insolentiores_fw-la plerumque_fw-la fieri_fw-la solent_fw-la to_o i_o the_o say_n of_o diomedes_n seem_v now_o to_o be_v say_v entreat_v he_o not_o because_o he_o be_v froward_a for_o haughty_a mind_n without_o dowbt_n by_o how_o much_o they_o be_v treat_v gentle_o by_o so_o much_o for_o the_o most_o part_n do_v they_o become_v more_o insolent_a for_o this_o m._n rider_n i_o can_v not_o entreat_v you_o to_o deal_v upright_o your_o disposition_n of_o itself_o be_v inexorable_a but_o the_o second_o cause_n be_v that_o lie_v be_v intrinsical_v and_o inseparable_a to_o your_o profession_n quasi_fw-la apud_fw-la lapsos_fw-la &_o prophanos_fw-la &_o extra_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la positos_fw-la de_fw-la quorum_fw-la pectoribus_fw-la excesserit_fw-la spiritus_fw-la sanctus_fw-la esse_fw-la aliud_fw-la possit_fw-la nisi_fw-la mens_fw-la prava_fw-la 69._o s._n cypr._n ep_v 69._o &_o fallax_fw-la lingua_fw-la &_o odia_fw-la venenata_fw-la &_o sacrilegia_fw-la mendacia_fw-la as_o if_o say_v s._n cyprian_n with_o they_o fall_v and_o profane_a and_o place_v out_o of_o the_o church_n from_o who_o breast_n the_o holy_a ghost_n be_v depart_v anything_o else_o man_n befownd_v but_o a_o deprave_a mind_n and_o deceitful_a tongue_n and_o venemouse_n hatred_n and_o sacrilegiouse_a lie_n but_o you_o may_v lay_v in_o our_o way_n the_o late_a word_n of_o s._n optatus_n that_o heynous_o attaint_v you_o at_o least_o lawful_a proof_n be_v not_o omit_v i_o therefore_o say_v that_o m._n edmond_n buny_n confess_v our_o church_n to_o be_v that_o from_o which_o you_o discend_v or_o be_v fall_v which_o have_v continue_v from_o the_o apostle_n age_n to_o this_o present_a luther_n also_o confess_v it_o in_o one_o of_o his_o last_o book_n end_n bunie_n in_o his_o treat_v to_o pacification_n towards_o the_o end_n omne_fw-la bonum_fw-la christianum_fw-la a_o papatu_fw-la ad_fw-la nos_fw-la devenisse_fw-la all_o good_a of_o christianity_n to_o have_v descend_v to_o they_o from_o papistry_n to_o every_o one_o sense_n it_o be_v so_o evident_a an●bapti●_n luth_n in_o lillo_o in_o an●bapti●_n that_o you_o be_v fall_v from_o we_o that_o i_o loathe_v to_o declare_v it_o then_o which_o reproach_n to_o be_v separate_v from_o we_o catech._n we_o s._n aug._n ep_v 42._o &_o l._n 1._o c._n 5._o de_fw-la symbolo_fw-la ad_fw-la catech._n tanquam_fw-la sarmenta_fw-la as_o chip_n ecclesiae_fw-la chip_n ●_o cyp._n l._n de_fw-fr unitate_fw-la ecclesiae_fw-la tanquam_fw-la ramos_fw-la as_o branch_n 1._o branch_n s._n opt._n lib._n 1._o tanquam_fw-la for_o as_o exunte_n as_o departer_n forth_o 28.15_o forth_o tertull._n l._n 4._o con_v martion_n s._n vinc._n c._n 37._o s._n iren._n l._n 3._o c._n 4._o isa_n 28.15_o tanquam_fw-la posteriores_fw-la as_o late_a the_o holy_a father_n s._n augustin_n s._n cyprian_n s._n optatus_n tertullian_n s._n vincent_n lirinensis_n s._n ireneus_fw-la thowght_fw-mi none_o more_o vehement_a and_o ignominious_a against_o owld_a heretic_n so_o they_o it_o be_v prove_v that_o you_o be_v fall_v from_o we_o we_o be_v now_o to_o know_v 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the_o centuriast_n aforesaid_a be_v confess_v that_o the_o pope_n of_o rome_n summon_v general_a concil_n that_o they_o be_v the_o precedent_n in_o they_o that_o they_o confirm_v they_o and_o some_o time_n in_o part_n sometime_o whole_o etc._n vide_fw-la cent._n 2._o cap._n 7._o cent._n 5._o c._n 7._o etc._n etc._n when_o there_o be_v occasion_n disannul_v they_o anacletus_fw-la live_v in_o the_o first_o hondr_v year_n after_o christ_n ascension_n say_v sacro_fw-la sancta_fw-la romana_fw-la &_o apostolica_fw-la ecclesia_fw-la non_fw-la ab_fw-la apostolis_n sed_fw-la ab_fw-la ipso_fw-la domino_fw-la &_o saluatore_fw-la nostro_fw-la primatum_fw-la obtinuit_fw-la sicuti_fw-la beato_fw-la petro_n apostolo_n dixit_fw-la 22._o cap._n sacrosancta_fw-la p._n 1._o d._n 22._o tu_fw-la es_fw-la petrus_n &_o super_fw-la hanc_fw-la petram_fw-la edificabo_fw-la ecclesiam_fw-la meam_fw-la the_o most_o holy_a roman_a and_o apostolic_a church_n not_o by_o the_o apostle_n but_o by_o our_o very_a lord_n and_o saviour_n have_v obtain_v the_o primacy_n as_o he_o say_v to_o b._n peter_n the_o apostle_n thou_o be_v peter_n and_o upon_o this_o rock_n will_v i_o build_v my_o church_n origen_n towards_o the_o same_o time_n say_v quis_fw-la esset_fw-la altior_fw-la apostolorum_fw-la eo_fw-la qui_fw-la est_fw-la &_o dicitur_fw-la vertex_fw-la eorum_fw-la euangelistis_fw-la orig._n ho._n 2._o de_fw-la euangelistis_fw-la who_o shall_v be_v more_o high_a of_o the_o apostle_n than_o he_o who_o be_v and_o be_v call_v their_o head_n the_o same_o question_n in_o like_a phrase_n be_v inquyre_v by_o s._n austin_n who_o 6._o s._n aug._n super_fw-la joan._n c._n 6._o as_o all_o other_o except_v only_o certain_a obscure_a reformer_n that_o first_o deny_v s._n peter_n to_o have_v be_v pope_n of_o rome_n and_o after_o upon_o contrary_a knowledge_n revoke_v their_o denial_n do_v attribute_n to_o the_o roman_a cheyre_n all_o prerogative_n of_o s._n peter_n as_o by_o diverse_a evidence_n yea_o and_o imperial_a 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head_n of_o the_o world_n to_o all_o these_o think_v you_o will_n m._n rider_n have_v nothing_o to_o answer_v yes_o i_o warrant_v you_o he_o have_v answer_v already_o all_o these_o be_v take_v by_o the_o sound_n and_o not_o by_o the_o sense_n the_o phrase_n be_v pretty_a and_o be_v a_o riderian_a answer_n to_o all_o which_o if_o you_o will_v not_o accept_v you_o must_v have_v no_o other_o because_o it_o be_v their_o opinion_n as_o even_o luther_n of_o the_o very_a sort_n say_v although_o they_o touch_v not_o one_o argument_n 397._o luth._o tom_n 7._o defence_n verb._n cene_z fol._n 394._o 397._o yet_o that_o they_o have_v answer_v the_o matter_n pass_v well_o and_o such_o be_v their_o greediness_n to_o defend_v their_o credit_n that_o it_o make_v they_o giddy_a and_o frantic_a in_o such_o sort_n that_o what_o soever_o they_o take_v hold_v of_o though_o it_o be_v but_o a_o straw_n yet_o they_o imagine_v it_o to_o be_v a_o sword_n or_o spear_n and_o that_o at_o every_o stroke_n they_o 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