hierom_n and_o evag._n tell_v we_o of_o viz._n that_o the_o presbyter_n of_o alexandria_n till_o the_o day_n of_o heroclas_n and_o dionysius_n take_v one_o from_o among_o themselves_o and_o make_v he_o a_o bishop_n therefore_o they_o may_v make_v presbyter_n which_o be_v less_o be_v not_o the_o bishop_n wont_a to_o have_v presbyter_n to_o join_v with_o they_o in_o this_o work_n have_v not_o a_o sheet_n of_o this_o reverend_a bishop_n write_v for_o accommodation_n at_o the_o isle_n of_o wight_n hint_v this_o to_o be_v his_o judgement_n ask_v the_o more_o moderate_a presbyterian_o if_o they_o can_v not_o close_o with_o it_o have_v not_o the_o rubric_n tell_v we_o that_o bishop_n ordain_v as_o presbyter_n doctor_n prid._n in_o his_o fasciculus_fw-la therefore_o subscribe_v himself_o in_o the_o epistle_n dedicatory_a episcopus_fw-la vester_fw-ge &_o sympresbyter_n do_v not_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o ministry_n by_o the_o london_n minister_n bring_v abundant_a testimony_n of_o this_o last_o ask_v the_o most_o rigid_a episcopal_a man_n in_o england_n and_o try_v if_o he_o will_v not_o say_v that_o minister_n ordain_v by_o presbyter_n be_v more_o lawful_o minister_n than_o those_o that_o have_v a_o pretend_a ordination_n from_o church_n query_n 19_o again_o if_o you_o say_v all_z or_o any_o the_o forementioned_a ordination_n be_v lawful_a then_o how_o vain_a a_o thing_n be_v it_o for_o the_o presbyterian_o to_o throw_v down_o the_o government_n of_o episcopacy_n why_o do_v they_o not_o rather_o reform_v it_o than_o cashier_v it_o see_v it_o be_v a_o power_n by_o which_o minister_n may_v have_v be_v authorize_v to_o preach_v according_a to_o god_n ordinance_n counter-query_a do_v you_o go_v on_o still_o to_o your_o unchristian_a charge_n whereby_o you_o will_v not_o only_o lay_v injustice_n but_o blood_n upon_o the_o head_n of_o presbyterian_o dare_v you_o assert_v speak_v out_o that_o the_o presbyterian_o do_v throw_v down_o the_o government_n of_o episcopacy_n mere_o for_o this_o error_n in_o ordination_n be_v this_o the_o only_a reason_n of_o such_o sad_a misery_n may_v we_o not_o more_o safe_o say_v the_o anabaptistical_n spirit_n which_o usual_o be_v bloody_a witness_v those_o in_o germany_n egg_v on_o to_o ruin_n whilst_o only_a reformation_n be_v intend_v do_v not_o they_o make_v the_o civil_a wound_n turn_v to_o fatal_a death_n do_v not_o they_o blow_v up_o that_o unbrother_o fire_n which_o may_v have_v be_v timely_o quench_v into_o a_o destroy_a flame_n and_o then_o with_o joy_n warm_v their_o hand_n at_o it_o query_n 20._o if_o the_o bishop_n as_o bishop_n have_v this_o lawful_a power_n when_o do_v any_o power_n from_o christ_n divest_v they_o counter-query_a if_o bishop_n not_o as_o bishop_n but_o as_o minister_n have_v this_o lawful_a power_n may_v we_o not_o be_v confident_a that_o christ_n have_v not_o devest_v those_o that_o be_v lawful_o minister_n of_o this_o power_n we_o will_v never_o so_o far_o distrust_v his_o promise_n as_o to_o doubt_v but_o he_o will_v be_v with_o they_o to_o the_o end_n of_o the_o world_n matth._n 28.20_o query_n 21._o if_o episcopal_a authority_n be_v of_o god_n as_o the_o bishop_n pretend_v why_o may_v not_o a_o man_n lawful_o go_v still_o to_o they_o for_o ordination_n in_o case_n this_o authority_n be_v never_o take_v from_o they_o in_o a_o ecclesiastical_a way_n counter-query_a 1_o can_v that_o authority_n which_o be_v found_v upon_o the_o word_n of_o god_n be_v take_v from_o any_o in_o a_o ecclesiastical_a way_n what_o do_v you_o mean_v 2_o be_v not_o this_o episcopal_a authority_n of_o ordain_v as_o minister_n found_v on_o the_o word_n 3_o can_v the_o contrary_a opinion_n either_o of_o the_o ordainer_n or_o the_o ordain_v null_a this_o lawful_a authority_n 4_o may_v not_o a_o man_n lawful_o go_v to_o they_o if_o they_o will_v ordain_v as_o minister_n 5_o if_o not_o ought_v he_o not_o in_o conscience_n since_o no_o necessity_n bind_v now_o to_o the_o contrary_a take_v it_o where_o it_o be_v more_o pure_o administer_v query_n 22._o if_o you_o say_v that_o both_o presbyterian_a and_o episcopal_a ordination_n be_v lawful_a then_o i_o query_n whether_o that_o christ_n ever_o erect_v two_o way_n of_o ordination_n of_o minister_n one_o contrary_a to_o the_o other_o and_o yet_o both_o lawful_a for_o such_o be_v the_o state_n of_o episcopacy_n and_o presbytery_n in_o england_n one_o say_v that_o the_o presbytery_n have_v no_o power_n to_o ordain_v the_o other_o say_v they_o have_v counter-query_a be_v not_o both_o episcopal_a and_o presbyterian_a ordination_n the_o same_o as_o to_o the_o substance_n as_o be_v already_o hint_v and_o as_o esteem_v lawful_a the_o same_o as_o to_o purity_n only_o differ_v in_o circumstance_n how_o irrational_a then_o and_o i_o think_v if_o logic_n be_v rational_a illogical_a be_v it_o to_o say_v there_o be_v contrariety_n where_o there_o be_v but_o one_o thing_n viz._n ordination_n by_o minister_n sure_o only_a two_o distinct_a thing_n can_v be_v call_v contrary_n must_v you_o not_o bring_v better_a argument_n the_o next_o time_n to_o prove_v this_o then_o to_o say_v because_o some_o circumstance_n differ_v therefore_o there_o be_v a_o contrariety_n etc._n etc._n because_o episcopal_n and_o presbyterian_a minister_n contradict_v one_o another_o therefore_o ordination_n by_o each_o be_v contrary_a each_o to_o other_o if_o there_o be_v such_o a_o essential_a agreement_n and_o only_o a_o circumstantial_a difference_n what_o reason_n then_o for_o such_o a_o query_n whether_o do_v christ_n erect_v two_o way_n of_o ordination_n query_n 23._o if_o it_o be_v that_o ordination_n that_o be_v among_o the_o independent_o than_o we_o have_v that_o we_o run_v for_o then_o if_o one_o have_v their_o suffrage_n and_o ordination_n and_o this_o be_v lawful_a which_o i_o think_v you_o will_v not_o say_v then_o wherein_o be_v master_n brooks_n in_o this_o to_o be_v condemn_v counter-query_a have_v you_o urge_v any_o thing_n yet_o that_o shall_v force_v we_o to_o own_o any_o ordination_n among_o independent_o but_o what_o be_v according_a to_o the_o gospel-rule_a viz._n by_o minister_n will_v you_o make_v the_o world_n believe_v you_o run_v for_o independency_n be_v you_o not_o pass_v it_o and_o get_v to_o anabaptism_n will_v you_o not_o fain_o have_v this_o as_o a_o cloak_n that_o your_o design_n may_v be_v the_o more_o plausible_a or_o be_v it_o that_o you_o tun_n for_o the_o defence_n of_o mr._n brook_n only_a must_v we_o not_o necessary_o hence_o suspect_v either_o that_o mr._n brookes_n or_o his_o church_n be_v stagger_v and_o that_o they_o get_v you_o to_o be_v their_o patron_n or_o that_o you_o be_v guilty_a of_o presumption_n by_o intrude_a into_o their_o cause_n uncalled_a query_n 24._o again_o if_o you_o say_v that_o ordination_n by_o the_o presbytery_n be_v the_o only_a ordination_n then_o where_o be_v a_o ordination_n to_o be_v have_v in_o england_n thirty_o year_n ago_o counter-query_a since_o ordination_n as_o i_o have_v say_v be_v by_o minister_n be_v there_o not_o true_a and_o lawful_a minister_n in_o england_n thirty_o year_n ago_o do_v you_o think_v so_o easy_o by_o your_o sophistry_n to_o persuade_v we_o there_o can_v be_v a_o true_a ministry_n under_o the_o name_n of_o episcopacy_n and_o presbytery_n as_o if_o bishop_n thirty_o year_n ago_o can_v not_o be_v true_a minister_n and_o ordain_v true_a minister_n or_o as_o if_o presbyter_n now_o can_v be_v true_a minister_n nor_o ordain_v true_a minister_n prove_v this_o by_o the_o next_o query_n 25._o be_v it_o not_o very_o strange_a that_o you_o shall_v tell_v the_o people_n they_o sin_v in_o hear_v those_o that_o be_v not_o ordain_v when_o you_o never_o tell_v they_o whether_o you_o mean_v any_o ordination_n may_v serve_v nor_o what_o ordination_n of_o those_o divers_a kind_n it_o be_v that_o god_n approve_v of_o counter-query_a how_o mr._n ives_n darenot_v you_o thus_o charge_v mr._n willes_n either_o you_o hear_v he_o all_o his_o sermon_n there_o or_o not_o if_o not_o how_o dare_v you_o say_v that_o he_o never_o tell_v the_o people_n what_o ordination_n he_o mean_v if_o you_o do_v hear_v he_o then_o how_o dare_v you_o false_o charge_v he_o with_o that_o that_o hundred_o of_o people_n can_v witness_v against_o do_v he_o not_o public_o declare_v that_o they_o ought_v to_o hear_v none_o but_o minister_n ordain_v by_o minister_n and_o that_o he_o be_v rigid_o neither_o for_o the_o aforesaid_a independency_n presbytery_n or_o episcopacy_n but_o for_o a_o moderation_n see_v they_o differ_v in_o this_o but_o circumstantial_o and_o that_o he_o hold_v ordination_n perform_v by_o minister_n of_o any_o of_o these_o three_o way_n to_o be_v valid_a and_o good_a be_v not_o a_o tale-bearer_n and_o take_v not_o up_o a_o false_a report_n against_o thy_o neighbour_n query_n 26._o since_o you_o say_v that_o none_o ought_v to_o preach_v but_o they_o must_v be_v ordain_v
example_n to_o a_o believer_n in_o charity_n 1_o tim._n 4.12_o i_o query_n then_o whether_o backbiting_a tale-bearing_a and_o take_v up_o a_o reproach_n against_o your_o neighbour_n be_v not_o contrary_a to_o the_o law_n of_o charity_n and_o whether_o you_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o this_o when_o you_o tell_v a_o gentleman_n that_o live_v at_o highgate_n who_o be_v ready_a to_o witness_v the_o truth_n hereof_o that_o you_o be_v inform_v i_o be_v a_o jesuit_n and_o therefore_o tell_v he_o he_o will_v do_v well_o to_o apprehend_v i_o true_o sir_n if_o you_o do_v not_o tell_v i_o who_o inform_v you_o i_o shall_v say_v it_o be_v a_o slander_n of_o your_o own_o devise_v either_o thereby_o to_o take_v away_o my_o life_n for_o that_o be_v the_o punishment_n the_o law_n have_v provide_v for_o jesuit_n by_o the_o stat._n of_o eliz._n 27.2_o or_o else_o if_o that_o gentlemn_a will_v have_v be_v rule_v by_o you_o that_o i_o may_v have_v be_v lay_v in_o goal_n right_a or_o wrong_n to_o the_o undo_n of_o myself_o and_o family_n till_o i_o can_v have_v clear_v myself_o of_o the_o suppose_a crime_n in_o open_a session_n this_o must_v needs_o be_v your_o design_n otherwise_o why_o do_v you_o encourage_v he_o to_o apprehend_v i_o as_o a_o jesuit_n but_o more_o of_o this_o in_o a_o more_o convenient_a place_n where_o i_o doubt_v not_o of_o reparation_n only_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o that_o if_o you_o can_v as_o easy_o prove_v the_o affirmative_a viz._n that_o you_o be_v send_v of_o god_n to_o preach_v and_o that_o all_o you_o preach_v be_v true_a as_o i_o can_v prove_v the_o negative_a that_o i_o be_o no_o jesuit_n the_o controversy_n between_o we_o will_v soon_o be_v end_v counter-query_a do_v you_o not_o see_v by_o mr._n willes_n his_o letter_n how_o much_o you_o be_v to_o blame_v thus_o in_o print_n to_o take_v up_o a_o reproach_n against_o he_o and_o that_o upon_o the_o bare_a information_n of_o such_o a_o single_a person_n do_v he_o ever_o assert_v you_o to_o be_v a_o jesuit_n at_o the_o most_o he_o only_o say_v you_o be_v suspect_v and_o this_o he_o speak_v in_o private_a and_o indeed_o who_o will_v not_o suspect_v that_o man_n to_o be_v jesuitical_a who_o be_v cry_v out_o on_o to_o be_v such_o to_o his_o face_n in_o a_o great_a congregation_n at_o clements_n beyond_o temple-bar_n that_o have_v the_o vox_fw-la populi_fw-la to_o accuse_v he_o of_o it_o that_o be_v report_v to_o have_v converse_n with_o jesuit_n that_o live_v a_o conceal_v i_o have_v almost_o say_v a_o suspect_a life_n for_o some_o year_n together_o in_o and_o about_o london_n that_o have_v jesuitical_a opinion_n and_o design_n especial_o to_o pluck_v down_o the_o ministry_n of_o england_n or_o to_o make_v it_o odious_a that_o these_o ground_n of_o suspicion_n may_v be_v have_v concern_v you_o i_o shall_v not_o assert_v but_o only_o wish_v that_o we_o have_v no_o more_o ground_n to_o suspect_v you_o to_o be_v jesuitical_a than_o mr._n willes_n to_o be_v uncharitable_a in_o accuse_v you_o or_o erroneous_a in_o what_o be_v here_o controvert_v and_o i_o make_v no_o question_n but_o you_o will_v in_o your_o next_o subscribe_v yourself_o a_o friend_n to_o mr._n willes_n and_o this_o truth_n in_o some_o measure_n vindicate_v confess_v the_o truth_n and_o glorify_v god_n amen_o reader_n there_o be_v fault_n in_o the_o print_n which_o be_v not_o much_o material_a only_o correct_v p._n 31._o l._n 4._o read_v with_o for_o as_o postscript_n reader_n i_o think_v it_o necessary_a to_o advertise_v thou_o of_o a_o few_o thing_n 1_o that_o to_o i_o it_o be_v a_o great_a sign_n that_o that_o be_v a_o truth_n and_o a_o truth_n of_o great_a concernment_n which_o when_o it_o be_v assert_v or_o teach_v man_n of_o corrupt_a mind_n be_v enrage_v at_o and_o oppose_v they_o will_v have_v the_o servant_n sleep_v that_o be_v their_o time_n of_o sow_v tare_n therefore_o it_o be_v very_o observable_a that_o when_o ever_o godliness_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o increase_v when_o the_o ministry_n have_v be_v most_o famous_a and_o active_a than_o the_o devil_n have_v stir_v up_o deadly_a enemy_n and_o opposer_n this_o have_v be_v in_o all_o age_n this_o we_o sad_o experience_n in_o our_o day_n be_v there_o ever_o a_o more_o learned_a pious_a famous_a ministry_n in_o england_n than_o now_o there_o be_v i_o challenge_v even_o its_o enemy_n and_o among_o they_o mr._n ives_n to_o contradict_v it_o if_o they_o can_v and_o shall_v we_o not_o sigh_v at_o it_o have_v ever_o the_o ministry_n of_o england_n so_o great_a and_o so_o many_o designer_n to_o undermine_v it_o but_o the_o father_n of_o truth_n usual_o so_o bless_v his_o own_o cause_n that_o it_o get_v by_o opposition_n thus_o we_o can_v say_v of_o this_o truth_n of_o ordination_n of_o minister_n which_o in_o my_o knowledge_n have_v get_v ground_n by_o these_o late_a broil_n gather_v yourselves_o together_o and_o you_o shall_v be_v break_v in_o piece_n for_o the_o lord_n be_v with_o we_o isa_n 8.9_o 10._o mat._n 28.20_o 2_o that_o those_o that_o have_v design_n against_o the_o truth_n have_v usual_o some_o plausible_a pretence_n to_o carry_v they_o on_o the_o devil_n have_v get_v the_o art_n now_o adays_o to_o wrap_v himself_o in_o a_o prophet_n mantle_n to_o appear_v as_o a_o angel_n of_o light_n in_o his_o choice_a instrument_n who_o usual_o with_o a_o seem_a religious_a garb_n forth_o up_o with_o soft_a word_n till_o they_o may_v opportune_o change_v their_o courtship_n into_o calumny_n have_v not_o mr._n ives_n worthy_o show_v himself_o for_o ordination_n of_o minister_n as_o he_o pretend_v that_o will_v make_v the_o world_n believe_v that_o the_o present_a godly_a ministry_n be_v antichristian_a if_o he_o can_v and_o that_o have_v thus_o thrust_v himself_o into_o a_o quarrel_n against_o it_o 3_o that_o those_o that_o design_v the_o propagate_a of_o their_o error_n will_v for_o the_o most_o part_n oppose_v their_o hand_n will_v be_v against_o every_o man_n but_o seldom_o assert_v their_o own_o opinion_n and_o prove_v it_o be_v it_o not_o because_o it_o be_v easy_a to_o quarrel_v with_o truth_n than_o to_o prove_v a_o error_n and_o because_o that_o be_v a_o time_n to_o break_v in_o when_o the_o rank_n be_v first_o shatter_v to_o broach_v error_n when_o man_n be_v stagger_v in_o the_o truth_n or_o be_v not_o this_o the_o end_n viz._n to_o be_v always_o accuse_v of_o other_o that_o they_o themselves_o may_v never_o be_v question_v or_o call_v to_o justify_v their_o own_o practice_n have_v not_o mr._n ives_n play_v his_o part_n in_o this_o by_o oppose_v every_o man_n not_o of_o his_o own_o way_n that_o we_o may_v believe_v what_o he_o assert_v to_o be_v truth_n have_v he_o not_o do_v so_o in_o these_o query_n where_o do_v he_o bring_v the_o least_o positive_a truth_n or_o one_o argument_n to_o justify_v his_o own_o practice_n or_o to_o state_n what_o be_v right_a have_v he_o bring_v one_o probable_a argument_n to_o prove_v that_o gift_a brethren_n may_v preach_v or_o that_o people_n may_v hear_v they_o that_o the_o church_n ought_v to_o ordain_v and_o not_o minister_n have_v he_o unfold_v any_o of_o those_o independent_a riddle_n viz._n that_o a_o company_n of_o those_o that_o be_v baptize_v and_o own_o their_o baptism_n be_v not_o member_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n or_o that_o a_o minister_n be_v such_o in_o relation_n to_o his_o church_n act_n no_o long_o as_o in_o office_n than_o to_o his_o church_n and_o that_o at_o one_o and_o the_o same_o time_n and_o place_n he_o preach_v as_o a_o mere_a gift_a brother_n to_o those_o that_o be_v not_o of_o his_o church_n and_o as_o a_o minister_n to_o those_o of_o his_o church_n thus_o thou_o may_v see_v his_o spirit_n of_o opposition_n and_o his_o design_n to_o cry_v out_o on_o other_o that_o none_o may_v suspect_v his_o cause_n as_o cutpurse_n that_o they_o may_v may_v not_o be_v accuse_v ought_v he_o not_o to_o do_v otherwise_o the_o next_o time_n 4_o that_o this_o task_n i_o have_v here_o undertake_v be_v the_o first_o and_o therefore_o may_v be_v guilty_a of_o mistake_n of_o which_o i_o beg_v thy_o pardon_n and_o do_v promise_v thou_o that_o nothing_o but_o what_o be_v more_o than_o ordinary_o material_a shall_v provoke_v i_o to_o spend_v my_o own_o time_n in_o writing_n or_o thou_o in_o read_v be_v zealous_a for_o the_o truth_n pray_v for_o its_o progress_n and_o be_v thankful_a to_o god_n for_o any_o satisfaction_n thou_o shall_v receive_v by_o he_o who_o be_v thy_o conceal_a friend_n n._n e._n finis_fw-la
the_o confident_a questionist_n question_v or_o the_o examination_n of_o the_o doctrine_n deliver_v by_o mr._n thomas_n willes_n in_o certain_a qvery_n publish_a by_o mr._n jeremiah_n ives_n examine_v by_o counter-query_n by_o n._n e._n with_o a_o letter_n of_o mr._n tho._n willes_n gal._n 1.6_o i_o marvel_v that_o you_o be_v so_o soon_o remove_v from_o he_o that_o call_v you_o into_o the_o grace_n of_o christ_n unto_o another_o gospel_n 7_o which_o be_v not_o another_o but_o there_o be_v some_o that_o trouble_v you_o and_o will_v pervert_v the_o gospel_n of_o christ_n 8_o but_o though_o we_o or_o a_o angel_n from_o heaven_n preach_v any_o other_o gospel_n unto_o you_o then_o that_o which_o we_o have_v preach_v unto_o you_o let_v he_o be_v accurse_v 9_o as_o we_o say_v before_o so_o say_v i_o now_o again_o if_o any_o man_n preach_v any_o other_o gospel_n unto_o you_o then_o that_o you_o have_v receive_v let_v he_o be_v accurse_v 2_o tim._n 3.13_o evil_a man_n and_o seducer_n shall_v wax_v worse_o and_o worse_o deceive_v and_o be_v deceive_v 14_o but_o continue_v thou_o in_o the_o thing_n which_o thou_o have_v learn_v and_o have_v be_v assure_v of_o know_v of_o who_o thou_o have_v learn_v they_o london_n print_v for_o tho._n newberry_n and_o be_v to_o be_v sell_v at_o his_o shop_n in_o sweetings-rent_n in_o cornhill_n near_o the_o exchange_n 1658._o reader_n if_o thou_o be_v a_o friend_n to_o the_o truth_n probable_o thou_o have_v be_v somewhat_o ere_o this_o grieve_a to_o see_v the_o host_n of_o israel_n rout_v and_o the_o philistines_n to_o carry_v the_o sacred_a ark_n into_o their_o idol-temple_n to_o see_v the_o ministry_n so_o much_o shatter_v and_o uncircumcised_a one_o to_o take_v the_o holy_a gospel_n and_o dispense_v it_o after_o their_o own_o humane_a invention_n bless_a be_v god_n that_o this_o foundation-truth_n be_v undertake_v to_o be_v rescue_v and_o that_o by_o a_o worthy_a hand_n for_o thou_o if_o thou_o have_v hear_v will_v say_v with_o many_o more_o that_o we_o have_v cause_n to_o bless_v god_n for_o that_o light_n and_o discovery_n of_o the_o truth_n there_o have_v be_v and_o for_o that_o satisfaction_n that_o be_v give_v to_o many_o honest_a heart_n i_o doubt_v not_o but_o by_o this_o time_n mr._n ives_n his_o query_n have_v fall_v into_o thy_o hand_n i_o shall_v not_o so_o far_o question_v thy_o judgement_n as_o to_o say_v that_o he_o have_v stagger_v thou_o in_o the_o belief_n of_o what_o mr._n willes_n have_v deliver_v if_o he_o have_v to_o settle_v thou_o who_o be_v too_o soon_o move_v i_o have_v send_v thou_o some_o counter-query_n judge_n and_o try_v and_o then_o i_o hope_v thou_o will_v blush_v at_o thy_o inconstancy_n and_o for_o a_o further_a settlement_n i_o advise_v thou_o to_o attend_v mr._n willes_n his_o lecture_n in_o crooked-lane_n but_o if_o thou_o be_v a_o enemy_n to_o the_o truth_n i_o be_o confident_a thou_o have_v sing_v many_o jopaean_n and_o have_v triumph_v before_o the_o victory_n be_v get_v shall_v mr._n brooks_n or_o his_o church_n invite_v this_o man_n to_o be_v the_o patron_n of_o their_o cause_n we_o may_v guess_v they_o miserable_o baffle_v and_o that_o they_o have_v too_o much_o inclination_n to_o his_o other_o error_n thou_o can_v not_o expect_v that_o mr._n willes_n by_o take_v notice_n of_o these_o slight_a query_n shall_v hinder_v his_o more_o serious_a discussion_n of_o this_o weighty_a point_n which_o he_o have_v undertake_v in_o the_o foresay_a lecture_n serious_o and_o impartial_o catechise_v the_o questionist_n by_o the_o question_v a_o mean_a hand_n have_v prepare_v try_v if_o here_o be_v not_o enough_o to_o puzzle_v he_o modesty_n forbid_v to_o say_v more_o i_o have_v print_v a_o letter_n of_o mr._n willes_n his_o for_o thy_o satisfaction_n in_o some_o thing_n which_o i_o receive_v for_o my_o own_o if_o i_o have_v mistake_v in_o any_o thing_n as_o a_o christian_a forgive_v because_o not_o wilful_a and_o learn_v not_o in_o any_o thing_n to_o attribute_v the_o weaknese_n of_o the_o author_n to_o the_o cause_n i_o can_v wish_v that_o thou_o and_o i_o can_v prevail_v with_o mr._n willes_n to_o publish_v his_o solid_a and_o serious_a discourse_n concern_v this_o subject_n that_o the_o enemy_n may_v be_v confound_v christian_n establish_v and_o direct_v the_o truth_n vindicate_v seduce_v once_o reduce_v for_o which_o bless_a effect_n i_o shall_v join_v with_o thou_o in_o prayer_n who_o am_z thy_o christian_a brother_n n._n e._n the_o copy_n of_o a_o letter_n to_o mr._n willes_n mr._n willes_n i_o late_o meet_v with_o a_o book_n of_o mr._n ives_n that_o question_n your_o confidence_n in_o the_o truth_n i_o judge_v he_o too_o bold_a if_o not_o worse_o see_v his_o ground_n and_o warrant_v for_o it_o be_v so_o slight_a for_o true_o my_o mean_a judgement_n be_v scarce_o shake_v much_o less_o rout_v by_o this_o assault_n i_o beg_v not_o therefore_o your_o reply_n to_o recruit_v your_o cause_n neither_o do_v i_o think_v any_o else_o do_v cry_v out_o for_o your_o help_n but_o those_o that_o be_v more_o afraid_a than_o hurt_n i_o only_o desire_v to_o be_v inform_v of_o some_o private_a and_o personal_a transaction_n which_o he_o hint_n and_o of_o some_o expression_n he_o lay_v to_o your_o charge_n 1_o in_o what_o sense_n you_o assert_v the_o baptise_v of_o the_o child_n of_o wicked_a parent_n q._n 40._o i_o suppose_v you_o mean_v only_o of_o those_o that_o be_v church-member_n and_o not_o cast_v out_o as_o have_v a_o visible_a right_n 2_o i_o desire_v to_o know_v what_o be_v your_o own_o word_n concern_v the_o five_o monarchy_n man_n q._n 42._o 3_o whether_o do_v you_o positive_o assert_v he_o to_o be_v a_o jesuit_n or_o not_o q._n 47._o 4_o and_o i_o pray_v give_v i_o some_o brief_a account_n concern_v your_o private_a discourse_n with_o he_o a_o advertisement_n concern_v these_o particular_n will_v be_v satisfaction_n both_o to_o i_o and_o to_o other_o if_o any_o thing_n shall_v appear_v in_o print_n in_o answer_n to_o the_o whole_a it_o will_v beg_v your_o patronage_n of_o its_o cause_n your_o pardon_n of_o its_o weakness_n this_o only_a i_o further_o crave_v viz._n that_o you_o will_v love_v and_o pray_v for_o he_o who_o be_v your_o friend_n and_o servant_n n._n e._n the_o answer_n i_o receive_v to_o this_o letter_n follow_v the_o copy_n of_o mr._n willes_n his_o letter_n sir_n the_o book_n or_o print_v paper_n you_o speak_v of_o be_v send_v to_o my_o hand_n from_o the_o author_n himself_o who_o if_o you_o know_v he_o not_o be_v once_o a_o soldier_n be_v now_o by_o trade_n a_o cheesmonger_n and_o for_o sect_n a_o anabaptist_n he_o come_v open_o to_o oppose_v i_o at_o my_o lecture_n at_o fish-street-hill_n whereby_o he_o occasion_v a_o very_a great_a disturbance_n which_o may_v have_v prove_v to_o his_o own_o peril_n but_o for_o the_o pacification_n of_o the_o tumult_n i_o open_o declare_v to_o all_o the_o people_n that_o if_o any_o of_o they_o have_v any_o thing_n to_o object_n against_o the_o doctrine_n by_o i_o deliver_v if_o they_o will_v be_v please_v to_o signify_v their_o objection_n to_o i_o in_o word_n or_o write_n at_o any_o convenient_a time_n i_o will_v answer_v all_o that_o be_v material_a in_o my_o further_a prosecution_n of_o that_o subject_n at_o michael_n crooked-lane_n hereupon_o mr._n ives_n with_o some_o other_o come_v unto_o i_o pretend_v to_o desire_v satisfaction_n though_o as_o it_o afterward_o appear_v the_o intent_n be_v rather_o opposition_n the_o principal_a thing_n that_o mr._n ives_n stick_v upon_o be_v the_o call_v of_o our_o first_o reformer_n two_o principle_n i_o propound_v to_o he_o as_o the_o ground_n of_o his_o satisfaction_n which_o be_v no_o other_o than_o what_o i_o have_v public_o deliver_v viz._n 1_o that_o minister_n in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n and_o case_n be_v to_o be_v ordain_v by_o minister_n 2_o that_o in_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n where_o there_o be_v no_o minister_n to_o ordain_v fit_a person_n may_v become_v minister_n without_o ordination_n for_o a_o positive_a law_n give_v place_n to_o necessity_n mat._n 12._o 15_a both_o these_o he_o own_v and_o acknowledge_v to_o be_v true_a before_o sundry_a witness_n and_o particular_o declare_v his_o high_a esteem_n of_o the_o latter_a hereupon_o i_o offer_v he_o satisfaction_n as_o to_o the_o call_v of_o our_o first_o reformer_n after_o the_o prevalency_n of_o popery_n in_o the_o land_n for_o if_o he_o will_v say_v the_o popish_a priest_n and_o bishop_n be_v no_o minister_n of_o christ_n and_o have_v no_o power_n to_o ordain_v than_o do_v the_o case_n of_o necessity_n warrant_v the_o call_v of_o our_o first_o reformer_n for_o as_o much_o as_o then_o there_o be_v no_o such_o ordination_n as_o he_o will_v acknowledge_v valid_a to_o be_v have_v but_o if_o he_o shall_v say_v
very_o vain_a all_o the_o way_n be_v not_o this_o the_o opinion_n of_o the_o most_o godly_a and_o sober_a protestant_a minister_n i_o suppose_v mr._n willes_n do_v not_o assert_v necessity_n in_o opposition_n to_o succession_n as_o his_o opinion_n but_o bring_v it_o as_o one_o branch_n of_o that_o dilemma_n he_o bring_v for_o your_o satisfaction_n viz._n that_o the_o first_o reformer_n must_v needs_o be_v true_a minister_n either_o by_o necessity_n or_o by_o succession_n which_o you_o have_v not_o answer_v reader_n take_v notice_n then_o that_o in_o my_o answer_v his_o follow_a query_n i_o plead_v not_o for_o necessity_n as_o if_o there_o be_v no_o succession_n but_o to_o show_v you_o suppose_v that_o succession_n be_v break_v off_o how_o weak_o he_o argue_v against_o necessity_n query_n 37._o if_o that_o ordination_n from_o rome_n and_o receive_v holy_a order_n from_o thence_o be_v throw_v off_o upon_o a_o politic_a account_n as_o doubtless_o it_o be_v at_o first_o though_o since_o we_o have_v decline_v it_o upon_o more_o religious_a consideration_n than_o i_o query_n how_o any_o body_n can_v pretend_v to_o the_o argument_n of_o necessity_n to_o preach_v without_o ordination_n counter-query_a have_v you_o prove_v plain_o clear_o and_o convince_o that_o there_o be_v no_o true_a succession_n be_v you_o sure_a of_o it_o have_v you_o do_v it_o with_o the_o true_a strength_n of_o argument_n rather_o than_o with_o subtlety_n be_v it_o certain_a reader_n be_v thou_o convince_v then_o have_v he_o not_o as_o clear_o prove_v the_o first_o reformer_n to_o be_v minister_n by_o necessity_n can_v you_o deny_v it_o but_o that_o there_o be_v a_o case_n of_o necessity_n when_o ordinationcane_v be_v have_v from_o succession_n and_o do_v not_o such_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n make_v they_o true_a minister_n that_o can_v in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n be_v ordain_v why_o then_o dare_v you_o thus_o to_o seem_v to_o unsay_v what_o you_o have_v say_v by_o plead_v against_o necessity_n notwithstanding_o you_o have_v argue_v that_o there_o be_v no_o succession_n but_o if_o we_o shall_v suppose_v succession_n be_v lose_v be_v your_o query_n of_o any_o force_n against_o necessity_n what_o if_o the_o religious_a consideration_n of_o the_o first_o reformer_n embrace_v that_o opportunity_n which_o political_a interest_n give_v be_v they_o therefore_o impious_a or_o what_o though_o through_o ignorance_n of_o the_o loss_n of_o succession_n they_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o the_o argument_n of_o necessity_n do_v it_o follow_v they_o lose_v this_o title_n therefore_o what_o if_o a_o man_n shall_v not_o know_v that_o the_o writing_n be_v lose_v whereby_o he_o have_v a_o right_a title_n to_o his_o house_n of_o which_o he_o and_o his_o ancestor_n have_v have_v a_o unquestionable_a possession_n a_o hundred_o year_n do_v it_o follow_v that_o because_o he_o do_v not_o plead_v the_o right_n of_o prescription_n that_o therefore_o he_o have_v not_o that_o right_a thus_o may_v not_o the_o first_o reformer_n be_v true_o minister_n by_o necessity_n it_o be_v suppose_v though_o they_o plead_v it_o not_o query_n 38._o whether_o or_o no_o when_o the_o line_n of_o succession_n be_v break_v it_o be_v not_o lawful_a than_o for_o every_o one_o to_o preach_v that_o can_v although_o it_o may_v not_o have_v be_v lawful_a before_o because_o necessity_n put_v one_o lawful_o upon_o that_o work_n where_o a_o successive_a ordination_n can_v be_v have_v by_o your_o own_o maxim_n counter-query_a 1._o do_v not_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n rather_o give_v that_o right_n which_o a_o positive_a law_n shall_v give_v in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n than_o make_v a_o new_a law_n 2_o do_v not_o such_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n then_o rather_o put_v man_n into_o office_n as_o do_v the_o positive_a law_n tit._n 1.5_o then_o give_v liberty_n to_o mere_a gift_a brethren_n to_o preach_v for_o which_o there_o be_v no_o law_n in_o the_o whole_a word_n of_o god_n 3_o do_v not_o then_o those_o that_o be_v by_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n put_v upon_o the_o work_n of_o the_o ministry_n act_n as_o man_n in_o office_n and_o not_o as_o meet_v gift_v brethren_n 4_o or_o do_v this_o case_n of_o necessity_n make_v any_o minister_n but_o those_o that_o be_v fit_a and_o undertake_v the_o ministerial_a charge_n 5_o do_v not_o they_o then_o preach_v without_o authority_n from_o this_o case_n and_o so_o sin_n that_o preach_v as_o not_o in_o office_n by_o this_o case_n notwithstanding_o their_o gift_n query_n 39_o if_o it_o be_v true_a as_o you_o say_v that_o none_o ought_v to_o preach_v while_o the_o successive_a ordination_n of_o christ_n remain_v uninterrupted_n but_o such_o as_o be_v lawful_o ordain_v which_o be_v the_o great_a thing_n in_o question_n how_o do_v it_o become_v a_o sin_n for_o man_n that_o be_v gift_v to_o preach_v since_o there_o be_v no_o such_o ordination_n now_o on_o foot_n but_o that_o which_o man_n put_v themselves_o upon_o through_o necessity_n and_o want_v of_o the_o other_o by_o succession_n counter-query_a see_v therefore_o none_o but_o those_o that_o be_v in_o office_n either_o by_o lawful_a ordination_n in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n or_o by_o a_o case_n of_o necessity_n be_v to_o preach_v be_v it_o not_o a_o sin_n for_o mere_a gift_a brethren_n to_o preach_v if_o there_o be_v a_o case_n of_o necessity_n do_v not_o this_o put_v our_o first_o reformer_n in_o office_n 2_o suppose_v this_o case_n of_o necessity_n which_o be_v not_o yet_o grant_v you_o insinuate_v they_o do_v not_o pretend_v to_o that_o argument_n how_o can_v they_o then_o through_o necessity_n put_v themselves_o upon_o the_o office_n will_v not_o providence_n suppose_v the_o case_n plain_o put_v they_o upon_o it_o 3_o suppose_v they_o be_v actual_o in_o office_n by_o this_o necessity_n be_v there_o not_o at_o least_o a_o lawful_a succession_n from_o they_o 4_o can_v any_o then_o in_o a_o ordinary_a lawful_a way_n be_v in_o office_n but_o those_o that_o have_v it_o from_o that_o succession_n and_o be_v not_o likewise_o the_o present_a ministry_n true_a and_o lawful_a that_o thus_o have_v it_o query_n 40_o whereas_o you_o say_v you_o can_v baptize_v the_o child_n of_o wicked_a parent_n i_o query_n what_o ground_n you_o have_v in_o scripture_n so_o to_o do_v counter-query_a do_v you_o not_o handsome_o and_o neat_o endeavour_v to_o delude_v one_o while_o by_o pretend_v to_o run_v for_o independency_n when_o you_o be_v a_o anabaptist_n already_o another_o while_n by_o plead_v against_o the_o baptise_v of_o the_o child_n of_o wicked_a parent_n when_o you_o be_v against_o the_o baptise_v of_o any_o child_n do_v not_o you_o acknowledge_v that_o those_o that_o have_v a_o right_a to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n ought_v to_o be_v baptize_v may_v not_o they_o then_o as_o well_o baptize_v the_o child_n of_o those_o that_o be_v church-member_n as_o have_v a_o right_a to_o membership_n upon_o their_o principle_n query_n 41._o whether_o to_o baptize_v the_o child_n of_o wicked_a parent_n be_v not_o contrary_a to_o the_o opinion_n of_o those_o which_o yourself_o call_v the_o reform_a church_n counter-query_a in_o the_o sense_n mr._n willes_n assert_v this_o baptism_n it_o be_v easy_a to_o see_v it_o belong_v to_o the_o child_n of_o those_o that_o be_v member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o do_v not_o most_o reform_a church_n thus_o judge_v i_o will_v propound_v one_o query_n concern_v what_o you_o probable_o know_v or_o at_o the_o least_o wish_n to_o be_v whether_o or_o no_o be_v mr._n brook_v inclinable_a to_o anabaptism_n have_v be_v not_o very_o favourable_a thought_n of_o it_o when_o he_o plead_v so_o much_o for_o man_n of_o that_o opinion_n either_o he_o own_v the_o baptism_n of_o child_n or_o not_o if_o he_o do_v why_o do_v he_o not_o acknowledge_v all_o the_o parishioner_n of_o margarets-new-fish-street_n to_o be_v member_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n since_o they_o have_v be_v baptize_v and_o be_v never_o cut_v off_o why_o have_v he_o ever_o since_o he_o come_v without_o cause_n or_o at_o least_o proof_n of_o cause_n debar_v they_o from_o those_o privilege_n that_o belong_v to_o they_o as_o member_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n if_o he_o do_v not_o own_o paedobaptism_n then_o may_v we_o not_o say_v this_o be_v the_o reason_n why_o for_o thus_o many_o year_n he_o never_o give_v the_o lord_n supper_n to_o one_o master_n of_o a_o family_n in_o his_o parish_n unless_o to_o a_o alehousekeeper_n who_o now_o be_v dead_a notwithstanding_o there_o be_v many_o sober_a and_o godly_a man_n there_o may_v we_o not_o hence_o guess_v the_o reason_n why_o he_o speak_v so_o many_o good_a word_n for_o they_o may_v we_o not_o hence_o guess_v why_o he_o deny_v to_o baptize_v so_o many_o child_n that_o when_o they_o may_v be_v engage_v by_o this_o to_o be_v christ_n disciple_n he_o be_v unwilling_a to_o