is proved from the grounds already layd For this Jurisdiction of theirs above Presbyters did not belong unto them by Divine Right we having proved that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter to be both one And therefore the Parliament that by Law gave them their power might seeing just cause for it by Law take it away They had also just reason for to take it away in regard of the oppressiveness and burthensomness of it both to Ministers and People to this whole Church and Nation as hath been proved before And therefore what they herein did was justly yea piously and prudently done and for which the Church of God in this Land both Ministers and People do for the present and will for the future see great cause to bless God for many Generations And that they had the concurrence herein of a reverend and learned Assembly of Divines is clear from their Exhortation annexed to the Ordinance of Lords and Commons assembled in Parliament with Instructions for taking the League and Covenant in the Kingdome of England and Dominion of Wales In this Exhortation of the Assembly of Divines in answer to some Objections they apprehended might be made against the taking of the Covenant they thus express themselves If it be sayd for the extirpation of Prelacy to wit the whole Hierarchiall Government standing as yet by the known Laws of the Kingdome is new and unwarrantable This will appear to all impartiall understandings though new to be not onely warrantable but necessary if they consider to omit what some say that this Government was never formally established by any Laws of this Kingdome at all that the very life and soul thereof is already taken from it by an Act passed this present Parliament so as like Jezabels Carkass of which no more was left but the Skull the Feet and the Palmes of her hands nothing of Jurisdiction remains but what is precarious in them and voluntary in those who submit unto them That their whole Government is at best but a humane Constitution and such as is found and adjudged by both Houses of Parliament in which the Judgment of the whole Kingdome is involved and declared not onely very perjudicial to the civil State but a great hinderance also to the perfect reformation of Religion Yea who knoweth it not to be too much an Enemy thereunto and destructive to the power of Godliness and pure administration of the Ordinances of Christ which moved the well-affected almost throughout this Kingdome long since to petition this Parliament as hath been desired before in the reign of Queen Elizabeth and King James for a total abolition of the same And then a little after And as for these Clergy-men who pretend that they above all other cannot covenant to extirpate that Government because they have as they say taken a solemn Oath to obey the Bishops in licitis honestis they can tell if they please that they that have sworne Obedience to the Laws of the Land are not thereby prohibited from endeavouring by all lawfull means the abolition of those Laws when they prove inconvenient or mischievous And yet if there should any Oath be found into which any Ministers or others have entred not warranted by the Laws of God and the Land in this case they must teach themselves and others that such Oathes call for repentance not pertinacy in them Thus far the Assembly of Divines in their Exhortation for the taking the solemne League and Covenant and which we have thought requisite to transcribe that so it may appear how fully they concurred with the Parliament in what they did touching the abolition of Episcopacy as it doth also confirme by their Testimony severall things that have been mentioned by us wherein the Reader may perceive their concurrence in Judgment with us From all which it is clear that seeing Diocesan Bishops did but obtaine that Jurisdiction they exercised over Presbyters by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church The Parliament finding this Government of Episcopacy to be very oppressive to this Church A great hinderance to the perfect Reformation of Religion and prejudiciall to the civill State they might both lawsully and laudably being therein also backed with the advice of a reverend and learned Synod take it away And hence it will follow that if the Ministers of this Land for severing themselves from the Bishops and with-drawing their Canonicall Obedience from them as some speake the Parliament according to the reverend Synod having before taken away from them all that Jurisdiction over Presbyters that did belong unto them must needs be accused of Schisme It is a good Schisme yea a blessed Schisme to use the words that Gerhard did defending the Protestants with-drawing from the Pope and the Church of Rome that they will be found to be guilty of The blot whereof as it is not to be much regarded so it is easily wiped off and as we think it is already done in the Eyes of all impartiall and unbyassed Readers by these Considerations which we have layd down We have onely one thing more to add which is the third generall Head we offer to the Reader here before we leave this first Argument with which you would perswade us to returne againe to our former Yoke of Bondag 3. For we offer it to the consideration of all impartiall men whether considering what hath been spoken touching the nature of Schisme in the generall and how lawfully and laudably the Parliament did abolish Episcopacy and how they passed by Ordinance the forme of Church-Government Anno 1648. establishing the Presbyterian in roome of the Episcopall and that how it was set up in this County by their Authority If they but observe what your actings have been and what your expressions are in your Papers they will not thereupon see just cause to impute Schisme taken in the worst part and as it is taken most usually unto you who have been so forward though without reason to fasten this blot upon us But we are sure during the prevalency of Episcopacy those that were not guilty of any such disturbance of the peace of the Church by any such boisterous Ventings of the Distempers of their Spirits as you are were counted and called by the Prelates Schismaticks And from which Aspersion though sundry of those being peaceable and godly however Non-conformists were free yet you being very unlike them are not thereby quit But we have now done with the first of those Arguments we promised to speak to particularly whereby you would perswade us to admit againe of Episcopacy and hope we have sayd to it that which is sufficient 2. We therefore now come to the second wherein you still rise higher for therein you insinuate a thing of a farre greater and more dangerous consequence if Episcopacy be not restored For you intimate that it is necessary That the Church of God may be continued amongst us from Age to Age to the
of the last age called it back into Germany Quod aruit in se refloruit in ill is they grafted upon the old stock and wanted nothing of the Donasticks but to be called so Now amongst other of their dangerous and erroneous principles Bullinger notes this for one of the chief De Doctrinâ caenae scrupulosè quaerunt Anabaptistae quorum causâ caena dominica sit instituta They were nice and scrupulous and inquisitive concerning the Lords Supper concluding it was only to be given to the Saints and concluding the Saints to their own folds This is the direct practise of the Scottish and English Presbyteries bytery because the Parliament formerly and now his Highness in their wisdom and prudence have so blunted the edge of their secular power that they cannot hurt us with that they flye to their religious shifts and what David said of Goliah's Sword surely they say of the holy Sacrament Ther 's none like unto that no Engine so likely to teach us obedience and to give them the soveraignty as that They impale the Supper of Christ to their own Inclosures and as absolute Judges of all Communicants keep back all persons that have not their Shibboleth ready that will not fall down and worship that Idol which they have set up The Aegyptians were hard Taskmasters to expect the Children of Israel should make Bricks and make Straw too to require the same number of Bricks without Materials to make them of this is something like the severity of our new Masters they censure for not doing that which they render to us impossible If we come not to the Lords Supper we must be excommunicate and they will not permit us to come because we are ignorant or scandalous or prophane and 't is proof enough we are so because we are too stout to fall down and worship their imaginations 'T is a trouble to us that men who impropriate to themselves the name of Saints and would have the world to thinke them the only Christians should be so farre from that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that meekness and sweetnesse of the Gospell that they are still of the old Legall spirit to eradicate and destroy all that are not of their way Instead of sweetning and indearing the spirits of men that they may come to the knowledge of the truth and be saved they irritate and imbitter them by their two bold judging in private and by their fierce and severe censures in publick as if indeed it were their worke to deliver them up unto Satan These things have forc'd us contrary to our own dispositions and inclinations to appear in publick not only for our own vindication but in defence of Ecclesiasticall and civill constitutions well hoping that these mean indeavours will encourage some worthy and learned Champions to take up Arms for the defence of that cause which we love what we have done quale quale sit what ever it be inasmuch as in the sincerity of our hearts we profess 't is done sine ullo studio contentionis without any pleasure or delight in contention but only for the love of truth we hope our good God will give it a more gracious success and good men will give it a more charitable reception A True and Perfect NARRATIVE Of the whole proceedings between the Class and the Gentlemen with the Animadversions of the Class upon their Preface IT was a witty Etymologie which the Ld. Chancellor St. Albane gave of a Lybell thatit was derived of a lye forged at home and a Bell to ring it up and down the Country the Subscribers to those Papers make the lye and some private Friend makes the Bell by commending it to the Presse and ringing it abroad all over the Nation The blasphemies wherewith they have blasphemed the Presbyterian Government the Government practised in the reformed Churches and established by the Parliament in this Nation the reproaches wherewith they have reproached us that act Presbyterially we know not what better to returne upon them then what our Lord and Teacher and the great pattern of patience and meekness did to the Jews that Crucified him Father forgive them they know not what they do He that is first in his own cause seemeth just but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him The Presbyteriall Government needs not any support we can give it 't is our honour we sit under the shadow of it concerning our selves the presenting a true Narrative of the whole business will justifie us to all men that would not have a tolleration for their sins as for their persons Of the occasion of this Paper with the Class first published together with all our proceedings upon it you may receive this faithfull account which we shall all along confirme by the Records of the Class which we conceive of better force to prove the truth of these matters of fact at which the publishers of the Papers have taken such occasion to quarrell And for our intentions in what we have done that they should be otherwise then what became us in our duty or then we have declared by our words Our record must remaine on high though we hope we shall meet with more charity in the most of those that shall read and impartially consider this Narrative and these Papers then yet we have done with them At a Provinciall meeting held at Preston May the 5. 1657. There was an Order drawn up there which we find recorded in our Book at our Classicall meeting June 9. 1657. next following which putting us upon the considering of some more effectuall meanes for the reforming of the ignorant and scandalous that were in our Congregations Having had frequent discourses of the business amongst our selves we determined to draw up a Representation of our desires and intentions herein aiming chiefly at that end proposed in the said Provinciall Order as also at taking of that reproach that is cast upon us from them of the Congregationall way that members in our Parishes are admitted to the priviledges of members to have their children Baptised c. and yet neglect to carry themselves so as to be capable of communicating at the Lords Supper and are otherwise some of them notoriously scandalous as Drunkards unclean persons c. and yet are not dealt with according to the rule of Christ by way of admonition and Church censure For the destruction of the flesh and saving the soul in the day of Christ against which sort of persons both the words of the Paper especially tend and at our publishing of them we manifestly professed our selves to intend This Paper thus drawn up we presented it to the Provinciall Assembly at Preston which was Octob. 6. 1657. where it was allowed and approved of as appears under the hands of the Moderator and Scribe of that Assembly Whereupon we forthwith agreed to publish the said Paper on the 22. day of Novemb. on one and the same day in the severall Congregations
THE CENSURES of the CHURCH REVIVED In the defence of a short Paper published by the first Classis within the Province of Lancaster in the severall Congregations belonging to their own Association but since Printed without their privity or consent after it had been assaulted by some Gentlemen and others within their bounds in certain Papers presented by them unto the said Classis and since also Printed together with an Answer of that Classis unto the first of their Papers without their knowledg also and consent under the Title of Excommunicatio excommunicata or a Censure of the Presbyterian censures and proceedings in the Classis at Manchester WHEREIN 1. The dangerousness of admitting moderate Episcopacy is shewed 2. The Jus divinum of the Ruling Elders Office is asserted and cleared 3. The aspersions of Schisme and Perjury are wiped off from those that disown Episcopacy 4. The being of a Church and lawfully Ordained Ministry are evidenced and secured sufficiently in the want of Episcopacy 5. The Scriptures asserted and proved to be the sole supreame Judge of all controversies in matters of Religion and the only sure interpreter of themselves not Councils or Fathers or the universall practice of the Primitive Churches 6. The Presbyterian Government vindicated from severall aspersions cast upon it and also the first Classis within the Province of Lancaster and their actings justified in their making out their claime to the civill sanction for the establishment of that Church Government and power which they exercise and likewise a cleare manifestation that their proceedings have been regular and orderly according to the forme of Church Government established by Ordinance of Parliament In three full Answers given to any thing objected against their proceedings by the aforesaid Gentlemen and others in any of their Papers Together with a full Narrative of the occasion and grounds of publishing in the Congregations the above mentioned short Paper and of the whole proceedings since from first to last LONDON Printed for George Eversden at the Signe of the Maiden-head in Pauls Church-yard 1659. TO THE Reverend and Beloved the Ministers and Elders meeting in the Provinciall Assembly of the Province of London the Ministers and Elders of the first Classis of the Province of Lancaster meeting at Manchester do heartily wish the Crown of perseverance in a judicious and zealous defence of the Doctrine Government and Discipline of the Lord Jesus both theirs and ours Reverend and beloved Brethren WHen the Sun of Righteousnes had first favourably risen to them that fear the Name of God in this Land after a dark and stormy night of corruption and persecution then even then were the quickning beams of the sun of civil Authority in this inferionr world caused first to light upon you to form your renowned City into severall Classes and afterwards into a Provinciall Assembly not onely that you might have the birth-right of Honour which we cheerfully remember but also that being invested with Authority from Jesus Christ and the civill Magistrate you might be prepared to stand in the front of opposition the powers of Hell being startled and enraged at the unexpected reviving of Gospel Government and Discipline which seemed so long to lye for dead and that having your strength united you might be enabled and encouraged to plead the cause of God against the Divine right of Episcopacy and for the Divine right of the Ruling-Elder that the one might not be shut out of the Church and the other might not recover in the Church both which have been and still are under design VVhat you have already done this way as a thankfull improvement of Divine favour and with speciall reference to the respective Classes and Congregations within your Province doth evidently appear in your Vindication of Presbyterian Government and your Jus Divinum Ministerii Evangelici which choice fruits of your Provinciall Assembly are not onely refreshing and satisfying for the present but do promise fair for time to come such clusters do shew there is a blessing in the Vine which the Lord of the Vineyard continue and increase When you our Reverend Brethren had first been shined upon and made so fruitfull the Divine grace caused a second enlivening beam of civill Authority to fall upon this remote and despised County to constitute in it also severall Classes and afterwards a Provinciall Assembly since which time such heavenly influence hath been stayed As our Lot hath happily fallen to follow you in the favour of God and civill Authority so we have unhappily fallen into your Lot especially this Classis to be followed with the anger opposition reproaches and contradiction of men of contrary mindes which though hid in the ashes in great measure formerly and but sparkling now and then here and there in a private house or Congregation yet when we would conscientiously and tenderly have improved the Government for the instruction of the ignorant and reformation of the prophane it brake out into a flame and no way but that flame must be hasted to such a Beacon that it might not be quenched till the Nation had seen and taken notice especially the whole opposite party awakened a very design You have pleaded the civil Authority for your acting in the Government but have setled the Government it self for the satisfaction of your own consciences and the consciences of the people of God upon the firm basis of divine Scripture authority and so have we thence you have been authorized to bring into the Church and keep in it by the mercifull intervention of civill Authority the despised governing Elders and so shut out of the Church and keep out of it that Lordly and self-murthering Episcopacy and so have we You have been forced to flie to the testimony of your consciences concerning your aims and ends in your publick undertakings in the cause of God and so have we It was scarce possible for you to wipe off the dirt cast upon you but some of it would unavoidably fall upon them that cast it nor can we Vpon these and other considerations we knew not in what Name of right to publish our enforced Vindication in the same common cause but in your Name who have gone before us in the work and have afforded us light and encouragement whose seasonable and solid Labours have already found acceptance in the Church and blessing from God And we pray that your Bow may abide in strength and the armes of your hands may be made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob that though the Archers have sorely grieved you and shot at you and hated you yet you may still possess the rich blessing of truth in Doctrine Government and Discipline and may foyl the adversaries thereof till the renewed and enlarged favour of God hath overspread this Nation with the Reformation so happily begun and till that so much desired prayed for and endeavoured accommodation of dissenting Brethren alas alas too hardly attained may sincerely
edifyingly and lastingly be effected that when all our undermining scorning and opposing enemies do hear and see these things they may be much cast down in their own eyes perceiving that this work hath been wrought of our God in whose arms of mercy and truth we leave you and the Cause we manage Manchester Jan. 11. 1658. Signed in the Name and by the appointment of the Class by John Harrison Moderator THE EPISTLE To the READER IT is no new thing that such workes as have been most eminently conducing to the glory of God and the Churches greatest wellfare have met with strong oppositions When the Adversaries of Judah and Benjamin heard that the Children of the captivity builded the Temple unto the Lord God of Israel they set themselves diverse waies to hinder and obstruct the worke When Sanballat and Tobiah and the Arabians and the Ammonites and the Ashdodites heard that the walls of Jerusalem were made up and that the breaches began to be stopped then they were very wroth and conspired all of them together to come and to fight against Jerusalem and to hinder it When Jesus Christ the eternall Son of God the brightness of his Fathers glory and express Image of his Person appeared in the world cloathed with our nature though he came about a worke of greatest consequence that ever was yet his enimies withstood and opposed his Kingdome Of this the Psalmist prophesied before it came to pass Psal 2. 1 2. Why did the Heathen rage and the people imagine a vaine thing The Kings of the Earth set themselves and the people take counsell together against the Lord and against his annointed saying Let us breake their bands asunder and cast away their cords from us And this the Church saw fulfilled who in their Prayer unto God applied unto the times wherein they lived what he by the mouth of his Servant David had foretold so long before saying For of a truth against thy holy Childe Jesus whom thou hast annointed both Herod and Pontius Pilate with the Gentiles and the people of Israel were gathered together for to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsell determined before to be done It would be here too long to go through the Books of the N. T. and tell what persecutions were raised against the Apostles of our Lord and Saviour for executing that Commission which he had given them when he commanded them to go teach all Nations or to go through the story of the Church and speak of the diverse kindes of tortures and torments which thousands of all rankes endured in the times of the ten Primitive persecutions under the Heathen Emperours to tell of the Martyrdome of Ignatius Polycarpus Justin Martyr Irenaeus Cyprian and many others glorious lights and worthy Confessors of the truth for no other reason but because they studied to advance Christs Gospell We will instance something in latter times When the Romish Synagogue having most abominably apostatiz'd both in Doctrine Worship Discipline and Governement Luther and other faithfull Servants of Christ did earnestly bend themselves to endeavour a reformation in Religion the Antichristian world was mad with fury To come yet a little nearer home When Religion was reformed in Scotland in Doctrine and Worship the Church of Christ there had many conflicts and the worke was long obstructed before the Governement and Discipline of Christ could be fully established amongst them as it is in fresh remembrance what troubles they passed through more lately in their contending against Episcopacy and the Ceremonies which had been introduced amongst them to the great prejudice of their Ancient Church governement and Discipline But here it may not be forgotten how when the Parliament of famous memory that was convened eighteen yeares agoe having taken into their pious consideration the condition of our own Church at home and judging that a further reformation in matters of Religion then had been made in the daies of Queen Elizabeth was necessary and setting upon that work as also the vindication of the liberties of this English Nation were forced to take up Armes for their own defence against that Partie that could not brooke the Reformation which they intended And to what an height that opposition grew in after time and with what difficulties they conflicted for many years together because they would not give up that cause they had undertaken to defend is so well known to even such as may be but strangers in our Israel that we may spare the pains of a full recitall But yet nothing of all this is to be wondered at Satan must needs be like himselfe and stir the more when he sees his Kingdome begin to shake And corruption will rage when it is crossed God also hath a wise hand in these oppositions not only thereby the more inflaming the zeal and brightning up other graces in his faithfull servants trying and exercising their faith and patience the purging and purifying and making them white but also getting himself the greater glory when his worke is carried on notwithstanding the greatest opposition of his and his Churches enemies And here we cannot but with all thankfullness to Almighty God take notice of this hand that was most eminently lifted up in the worke of Reformation begun by that late forementioned Parliament as there is cause why also we should to the honour and glory of his great Name and the praise of that Parliament unto the generations that may come hereafter acknowledg their unwearied pains courage and constancy in that worke Much was done yea very much by that illustrious and worthy Parliament By them the foundation of reformation was laid in the solemne League and Covenant which they not only took themselves but ordained should be solemnely taken in all places throughout the Kingdome of England and Dominion of Wales And for the better and more orderly taking thereof appointed and injoyned certain directions to be strictly followed And in pursuance of this League and Covenant engageing every one that tooke it in their severall places to indeavour the refomation of Religion in England and Ireland in Doctrine Worship Discipline and governement according to the word of God and the example of the best reformed Churches and to bring the Churches of God in the three Kingdomes to the nearest conjunction and uniformity of Religion Confession of Faith forme of Church Government Directory for worship and Catechizing After consultation had with the Reverend Pious and Learned Assembly of Divines called together to that purpose they judged it necessary that the Book of Common Prayer should be abolished and the Directory for the publick worship of God and in their Ordinance mentioned should be established and observed in all the Churches within this Land as appears by their Ordinance of January the 3. 1644. for that purpose By them Prelacy that is Church Government by Archbishops Bishops their Chancellors and Commissaries Deanes Deanes and Chapters Archdeacons and all other Ecclesiasticall
there hath been occasion But here we must further acquaint the Reader that the errours and depravations of this Paper which we found in it as it had been by them Printed we have rectified as we well might according to the Originall and now exhibit it to the Readers view as it was when it passed from us We have Printed their first Paper as we found it Printed by themselves only we have added the rest of the Names that were subscribed to it when it was presented unto us that so those that were represented to us as the subscribers of it may own it or disown it as they see cause We have divided our Answer to their first Paper into eleaven Sections as also the last Paper of theirs on which we Animadvert into the like number that so by comparing all together it may be the better discerned how they have dealt with us what they reply to and what they omit and we leave the whole together with our Animadversions on the severall Sections of theirs to be judged of by the Reader We have also Printed their two last Papers as we found them Printed by themselves and have noted in the Margents of them both the variations which yet are not great from the Copies that were presented unto us and whereof the letters Cl. and Cop. prefixed to those variations and intimating how it was in those Copies that were exhibited to the Class are an indicium or the sign We confess our Answers to their two last Papers are now grown to a greater bulke then we first intended or then what some perhaps may judge necessary but we wish it might be considered that if some things that fall into debate betwixt them and us be not of generall concernement yet the discussion of them being of use for our vindication and the discovering unto them their errours and faults we conceive that in those respects it was requisite although the Reader may find severall things spoken to that be of common use and whereof we give him some account at the end of this Epistle as also where they may be found that such as have not either leisure or will to peruse the whole may take a view more speedily of what they may chiefly desire to read When we were to give our reasons why we could not consent to admit of Episcopacy moderated we considered that the point touching Episcopacy having been so fully discussed by farre abler Pens we thought it might be the fittest for us to insist chiefly upon the inconveniency and dangerousnesse of that Government and what we in this Land and the Neighbour Nation had experienced in those respects In another place we urge some Arguments to prove a Bishop and a Presbyter to be in a Scripture sense of those words all one What is spoken touching the Jus divinum of the ruling Elders Office was occasioned from the Texts we had urged though it was but by the way in our Answer to their first Paper and their excepting in their second against our alledging those Texts for that purpose But we do here professe that we do not discusse that point our selves we only transcribe what is solidly and fully done concerning it to our hands by other Reverend and Learned Brethren and therefore when in our Title we mention the clearing up of the Jus divinum of the ruling Elders Office the Reader is so to understand that branch of it as when we come to speak of that point particularly we there give him our reasons of that transcription We have now no more to acquaint the Reader with and therefore shall leave the whole to his perusall not much mattering the censures of loose and prophane spirits though we hope with such as are unprejudiced and zealous for reformation our endeavours shall find some acceptance And having the Testimonie of our consciences that in the uprightness of our hearts we have aimed at the Glory of God and the good of his Church in what we now send abroad into the world we do not question but that God who is the trier of the hearts and reines and the God of truth will not only own that good old cause of his in the defence whereof so many of his faithfull Servants have suffered in former times but us also the meanest and unworthiest of his Servants in this our standing up for it and so bless our labours herein that they may be of some use for the publique good The Father of Lights and God of our Lord Jesus Christ the Prince of Peace give unto us all and to all His the spirit of wisdome and revelation in the knowledge of his Will guide our feet in the waies of Peace and after our manifold and great shakings settle the Affairs both of Church and State upon some sure foundations to the Glory of his own great Name and the everlasting Comfort Peace and Wellfare of all his People Amen AN ACCOUNT Of some of the principall things in the ensuing Discourses 1. THe dangerousness of admitting moderate Episcopacy shewed pag. 85. 2. The Jus divinum of the ruling Elders Office is cleared pag. 103. 3. The nature of Schisme opened and the imputation thereof taken off those that disown Episcopacy pag. 121. 4. The being of a Church and lawfully Ordained Ministery secured in the want of Episcopacy pag. 130. 5. The imputation of Perjury taken off from such as do not again admit of Episcopacy pag. 204. 6. The claim of the Presbyterian Government to the civill Sanction made good in the fourth Section of our Answer to the Gentlemens first Paper and further in our Animadversions on their last pag. 219. 7. The Scriptures proved to be the sole supreme Judg in all matters of Religion pag. 255. 8. Councils and the unanimous consent of Fathers not to the rule of the interpretation of the Scriptures pag. 260. 9. Civill penalties not freeing from Ecclesiasticall censures cleared pag. 290. The Title of the Papers as they were Printed by the Gentlemen together with their PREFACE Excommunicatio Excommunicata OR A CENSURE OF THE PRESBYTERIAN CENSURES And proceedings of the Classis at Manchester Wherein is modestly examined what Ecclesiasticall or Civill Sanction they pretend for their new usurped power In a discourse betwixt the Ministers of that Classis and some dissenting Christians THE PREFACE IN such an age as this when the heat of vaine and unprofitable controversies has bred more Scriblers than a hot Summer in the Comedians simile does Flies it might seem more rationall according to Solomons rule for prudent men to keep silence then to vex themselves and disquiet others with such empty discourses as rather enlarge then compose the differences of Gods People It was a sad age that of Domitian of which the Historian affirmeth that then Inertia pro sapientiâ erat Ignorance was the best knowledge laziness and servility was the best diligence and we could wish this age did not too much resemble that But when we see
they have done or we may now do amongst men we know not but pro captu lectoris c. we are well aware of a spirit of prophanenesse and indifferency in the things of God that prevailes sadly in this Nation and with men of loose lives it is enough that some have spoken against the Government quale quale sit vvhatever it is they say and vvhatever vve may say to the contrary in our Answer theirs shall go for an unanswerable Piece because it is of a Subject so deare to too many though ours to the contrary be never read by them For those that are sober and moderate we question not but they have seen something in ours already that is in a good part unanswered and much vvronged in theirs vvhich vvould in some measure satisfie them if vve should have said no more however stay their appetites till this our further Answer comes ¶ It may not seem altogether impertinent to the sober and unprejudiced Reader if in this place vve subjoyne only a briefe Note in vvay of vindication of the same so much opposed and despised Presbyterian Government from an injury as vve conceive offered to it by another hand And though vve reverence the Learned Author of the Book vvherein it is done viz. Dr. Sanderson a man eminent for his Learning and labours in the Church of God yet vve conceive the vvorthy Doctor vvill hold us excused if we take notice of the vvrong he hath done us since he hath as vve judge causelesly aspersed us in Print And we rather shall do this little in this place confining our selves to what as vve judge doth more particularly concern us that we may hereby invite some worthy Author that may have time and a more convenient occasion of doing it more largely to take up some other passages in the same Book vvhich we thinke might easily be cleared and the Doctors want of moderation vvhich yet he so much professeth be much evidenced in those many charges he casts upon the Presbyterians his Anticeremoniall Brethren But this passage is in his Preface to his fourteen Sermons Printed Ano. 1657. In his eighteenth Paragraph vvhere he vvould perswade the world much that the Presbyterians though not purposely yet eventually should be the great promoters of the Roman interest amongst us and that more waies then one as by putting to their hands to pull down Episcopacy c. but upon his second thing he saies they promote the Roman interest by opposing it with more violence then reason c. And so as the common fault of all Presbyterians so to do they being men it seems not dealing with learning and reason in the Doctor 's esteem he confirms this by an observation of some vvhich he makes most his own in that he only publisheth it to the world and subscribes unto it vvith a particular reference to our County in these vvords It hath been observed by some and I know no reason to question the truth of the observation that in those Counties Lancashire for one where there are the most and the most rigid Presbyterians there are also the most and the most zealous Roman Catholicks To vvhich vve say that though vve shall not stand upon vvhat he asserteth that either there are most or most rigid Presbyterians in this County the truth of which in any sense but vvhat is truly an honour to us in vvhich vve thinke he vvould be very sparing vve might question as also vvhat he meanes by Papists and those most and most zealous and that in this County they should be such vve shall not now dispute but that Presbytery should be the eventuall cause of this vve do much admite at the Doctors Aslertion For if it vvere so that vvhere rigid Presbyterians are there should be rigid Papists doth it therefore follow that the one is the cause of the other We should to such a consequence return the Answer which Bp. Laâ—imer made to the Objection against Preaching that Preaching vvas the cause of Rebellion for before Preaching was there vvas not such Rebellion vvhich vvas that this vvas as Temderton steeple was the cause of the stoppage of Sandwich haven but that vve judge the consequents of the Doctors observation more absurd For it doth not so vvell follow that Presbytery should occasion stifness in Popery because it cannot be said of the Papists in this County that they vvere not here before Presbytery came in If this be the eventuall cause vvhat vvas it then before this Government vvas established that vvas the cause there vvas so many rigid Papists in Lancashire If their very rise and breeding had been contemporary with this Government there had bâ—en more reason for the observation though not much in it at the best but that the prevalency of a more ridgid Popery in this County which was so evident in the time of Episcopacy as is notorious to all that are acquainted with these parts that this should be ascribed to Presbytery so long before it was born here we admire at the oversight of this learned man herein But it s ordinary vvith many men of this way and we are sorry to see any of this spirit in so Reverend a man that what is found amiss amongst us which was truly the fault of the Prelaticall Clergy or at least much more theirs is ordinarily laid upon the Presbyteriall Ministers for but coming in their places after them We desire to be sensible of what is amiss in our Congregations and to take to what we can be truly charged with in defect of not endeavouring to reforme as we could desire yet we thinke it strange to be reproached for these things by the Episcopall men who led us the vvay vve may speak vvithout partiality in greater neglects in respect of their ordinary personall care of their places and laid the foundation of those abuses in our members by their negligence which we are yet litâ—le able to remove And for men of this perswasion to come and view our Congregations and Counties and to find these faults to reflect upon this Government thereby we think it ill chid of them of any This holds true in this of the Doctors as of our Gentlemen in their charge of our peoples ignorance to be for want of catechizing and the like We shall not say much about the number of Papists at present in this County but this we are confident they have gotten no ground upon us since Presbytery was setled here The furthest part of the County hath many in it as it had ever since Queens Mari's time the reformation never yet prevailing in those parts especially for want of a setled Ministery there and where most Papists are there the Government is least setled so that if we were directly chargeable with this thing it might the more truly be said to those that know this countrey the want of Church Government should rather be the eventuall cause of Popery to them And whether it may not be trulier
said that Popery gets more advantage from the want of Government in the Church then from the Presbyterian Government which was never so effectually setled we leave all unprejudiced persons to judg and if eventuall causes be talkt of whether severall of the Episcopall men that bend their strength so against Presbytery and whilst they contend for a Government excepted against thereby endeavouring anarchy in the Church do not herein gratifie the Papists time will shew We might further say that in these parts we have had none that we know of revolted to Popery since Presbytery was setled And for some we know very eminent that turned Papists in the height of Prelacy and upon some offences and sad accidents that befell some in the Clergy then which we forbeare particularly to instance and they do but continue under us as they were before so that Episcopacy sure was the eventuall cause of their apostacy by the Argument of this observation of the Doctors May we add an observation of a worthy Divine which we have heard from him and let it stand by this of the Doctors and for the truth of it abide the test and strictest examination and it may be still in pursuance of this vindication of our Government It was this that of the three formes in Church Government that are spoken of amongst us viz. Presbytery Episcopacy and Independency of all three the first where it hath prevailed hath been followed with least errors in Doctrine For Episcopacy it is well known how many of the Divines under that Government were infected with Arminianism Socinianism and Popery it self * some chief Ceremoniall men turning Papists which the Doctor cannot observe of any Presbyterians For the Independants how many of their way turn into Antinomians Anabaptists Seekers Familists Quakers Ranters c. And for Presbytery it hath not yet been observed to have bred any such noysome Weeds where it hath been established And how far it is eventually the nourisher of Popery as far as concernes this instance in our County we leave the Reader to judg Distance of place in regard of the Author hath hindred so strict a revisall of the Sheets in Printing as was needfull these faults since Collected by him besides divers literall ones not so materiall thou art desired thus to mend ERRATA IN Epist to the Reader page 3. l. 29. for this read his In their Preface p. 5. l. 26. for Donasticks r. Donatists In the Narrative p. 1. l 27. for with r. which p 9. l. 4. for to them r. to their p. 13. l. 9. these words are to be read as in a Parenthesis the next Class Mr Heyrick not being returned l. 24. after Printing these words are left out of the Papers with the Preface from p. 17. to the end instead of Narrative the Title should have been The Animadversions upon their Preface Classicall Records 1. Col. l. 32. for Edw. Gee r. Edw. Lee 8. Col. l. 5. for contained r. continued l. 7. for would r. could In the Answer to the Preface p. 1. l. 15. note 1. for our poor Text r. one poor Text. p. 9. l. 3. note 5. for freely making r. freely make l. 16. note 6. dele to r. return the Laconick p. 11. l. 23. note 13. r. tax as Donatism l. â—lt r. they jeer us p. 12. l. 15 r. when he is fallen l. 34. r. omission In the Gentlemens first Paper p. 11 12. the Names from Isa Allen to Nie. Mosely are transposed and should have been in the front of all the Names In the Book p. 89. l. 9. for unconformists r. nonconformists l 22. for not more r. no more p. 95. l. 36. protest against him r. against it p. 99. l. 28. for sober ground r. other ground p. 100. l. 7. for seasonable r. seaseable l. 18. for offored r. affoarded p. 106. l. 30. for 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 r. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 139. l. 22. for civill sunction r. civill sanction p. 179. l. 1. dele the Interrogation after what p. 224 l. 12. for concluding r. excluding p. 247. l. 28. the word assure is left out read it thus yâ—t that could not be a rule to assure us p. 291. l. 30. r. is not against the Rules p. 301. l. 36. r. normam p. 322. l. 32. dele the r. not to the last p. 324. l. 23. for dissavoured r. dissavowed p. 338. l. 17. for admit r. omit it l. 33. for presumptuously used r. promiscuously used p. 339. l. 6. dele not l. 27. for giving r. give your censure p. 340. l. 2. dele it p. 341. l. 7 and 22. r. Magistraliter l. 8. for ours fit r. was fit l. 15. for nearest Antecedent p. 342. the sentence in the Margin should be inserted into the matter at the letter a. without which the sense is incompleat l. 5. for and us that r. and is that p. 344. l. 16. r. competent knowledg l. 36. r. tell us p. 345. l. 8. dele to p. 352. l. 26. r. Apage Sect. 11. The paper that was published by the first Classis within the Province of Lancaster in the severall Congregations belonging to their association Novemb 22. 1657. At the first Classe at Manchester Septem 8th 1657. IN pursuance of an Order of the last Provincial the first Classe doth humbly represent to this Assembly their apprehensions in the case to them propounded in a draught prepared for the several Congregations belonging to their own Association if it shall be approved of by this Assembly and which they do wholely submit to their Judgements It being represented to this Classe and much complained of and offence being taken That in the several Congregations if not in all belonging to this Association there are many persons of all sorts that are members of Congregations and publickly enjoy severall priviledges as hearing of the Word prayers of the Church and baptizing of their children and satisfaction for injuries done unto them That yet live in a total and sinfull neglect of the Lords Supper that are scandalous and offensive in their lives drunkards unclean persons swearers Sabbath breakers neglecters of Family-duties that will not subject themselves to the present government of the Church but live as lawless persons out of their rank and order that there are sundry that are grosly ignorant in the main points of Christian Religion These are to give notice that this Classe laying these things to heart and much grieved for them do publish and make known 1. That every Minister belonging to this Association shall set apaâ—t one or two or more of the weeke dayes in every month for the catechizing of the several familyes belonging to their respective Congregations and for the information of the ignorant in those families and that the families to be catechized on each of such dayes set apart for that purpose have notice the Lords day before to meet the Minister either at the Church or Chappel or the Ministers house or some other house within the
every lawful Minister to whom the Key of Doctrine is committed by himself singly or else it is Juridical and this belongs to Synods and Councils who having the Key of Discipline are invested with authority to inquire into try examine censure and judge of matters of Doctrine and Discipline authoritatively although they be tyed to the rule of Gods Word in such proceedings as Judges to the Law and likewise to censure offenders according to their merit when such cases are regularly and orderly brought before them And in this sense it was that we submitted our apprehensions in the Paper published to the Judgement of the Provincial Assembly And we believe when the Apostle tels us 1 Cor. 14. 32. That the spirits os the Prophets are subject to the Prophets And our Saviour Christ-saith Mat. 18. â—ell the Church And when we consider what was practised by Paul and Barnabas and certain others who upon occasion of a contest that arose in the Church at Antioch about a matter of Doctrine were sent up from that Church to Jerusalem to the Apostles and Elders about that question from these and other Scriptural grounds we had sufficient ground for so doing We are sure also That Whitaker de Conciliis quaestione quinta and Chamierus in his Panstratia de oecumenico Pontifice ubi de Authoritate Papae in Ecclesia cap. 13. cap. 14. And generally all our Protestant Divines against the Papists alledging the Texts above-mentioned and others do prove abundantly that in the sense declared the Pope is to be subject to a general Council wherein also sundry Papists do concur with them And questionless if in the time of Augustine who was no contemner of Synods and Councils any in this sense had declared that they would not have submitted their apprehensions to their judgement he would have cried out against them as well as against the Donatists O impudentem vocem And we hope when you have weighed the matter better you will not in this sense see any reason to refuse to submit either your sense and apprehensions of our Paper or what you may publish as your own private Judgements in other matters about Religion to the Judgement of a general Council supposing it might be had SECT III. WE have now done with your Preface and come to the matter it self wherein you professe 1. To joyn with us in a deep sense of the several grosse sins and errors of the times desiring earnestly to mourn first for your own sins next for the sixs of others c. And here we do heartily pray that neither we nor you may any of us condemn our selves either by professing our sorrow for what sins we may practise or by refusing to help forward the good that we professe to allow of but may testifie the truth of our sorrow for our own and other mens sins by suitable indeavors to reform what is amisse in our selves and helping forward every one in his place the reformation of others 2 In the next place you say You are also sensible with us that there are sundry persons grosly ignorant in the mainpoints of Christian Religion And if so we hope you will acknowledge that where after the injoying of plenty of Preaching and the publick Catechizing that hath been used for many years together and much more where there hath been lesse of this meanes many continue grosly ignorant in the main points of Religion it is at least not to be condemned in such Ministers as shall be willing to take the paines by private Catechizing to instruct such persons This course being to the Ministers a matter of paines onely and that hereupon where the publick Catechizing attaines not its desired end the private may be good and useful that so poor souls perish not for lack of knowledge 3. Lastly You hope That we with you are sensible and greived though you say we do not mention them for the grosse errors in judgement and damnable Doctrines of many who have rent themselves into as many several Heresies as they have into Sects and Schisms You may perceive by the title of our Paper that it was a representation of our apprehensions to the Provincial Assembly in the Case to us propounded by the said Provincial and what that was we shall particularly declare anon although by what we say had been complained of and represented unto us it might be gathered and therefore we were chiefly to apply our selves to that which was therein our main work and businesse That the grosse and damnable errors that the loosness of these times have brought forth are to be bewailed if it were possible with tears of bloud is most freely to be confessed And whether we lay them not to heart in some poor measure God the searcher of all hearts he knows as what complaints have been made of these by the members of this Classis both in their prayers and preaching men can witnesse and likewise what testimonies have been given to the truth of Jesus Christ and against the errors of the times subscribed with their hands and published to the world though therein but concurring with the rest of their Reverend Brethren in this Province in the Province of London and other Counties of the Land posterity may read when we are in our graves But as to the most of the Congregations belonging to this Classis the great business to be looked after was the use of our best indeavors for the informing of the ignorant and the reforming of the scandalous the numbers of these being great and of those that are so grosly erroneous as to maintain damnable doctrines and whereof you professe your selves to be so sensible very inconsiderable in comparison of the former and in sundry of our Congregations if not in most blessed be God for it not any at all that we know of And therefore there was not that reason to make any such expresse mention of these as of the former although in our Paper we were not herein neither altogether silent as will after appear Having professed your agreement with us thus farre you go on to declare your selves That touching the way of informing the ignorant and reforming the wicked and erroneous you shall not much dissent And 1. You say For the Information and instruction of the ignorant by way of Catechizing before they be admitted to the Sacrament the course by us published provided you say it be in publick little differeth from the Order prescribed by the Church of England and other Reformed Churches abroad before any be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Sapper That all Children and others so many as it is fit to instruct after that manner be publickly catechized is that which we heartily wish had been and were more generally practised in our own Church at home as it is practised by the Reformed Churches abroad And certainly had the publick catechizing of Children and others been more generally and constantly practised there had not been that cause
cause the Name and Truth of God to be blasphemed cannot stand with the power of godlinesse and such practises as in their own nature manifestly subvert that order unity and Peace which Christ hath established in his Church and particularly all those scandalous sins for which any Person is to be suspended from the Sacrament of the Lords Supper obstinately persisted in these being publiquely known to the just scandal of the Church The sentence of Excommunication may and ought to proceed according to the directions after following But the Persons that hold other Errours in Judgement about which learned and Godly men possibly may and do differ and which subvert not the faith nor are destructive to godliness or that be guilty of such sins of infirmity as are commonly found in the Children of God or being otherwise sound in the faith and holy in life and so not falling under censure by the former rules endeavour to keep the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace and do yet out of conscience not come up to the observation of all those rules which are or shall be established by Authority for regulating the outward worship of God and Government of his Church The sentence of excommunication for these causes shall not be denounced against them These things this Classis taking into consideration together with the power they were betrusted with by God and Man for the dispensing the censures of the Church in the cases censurable by the rules here laid down and elsewhere in the form of Church Government And there having been in the Provinciall Assembly several debates touching such Persons as in the several Congregations were ignorant and scandalous who offered not themselves to the Sacrament nor to the Eldership in order to their admission to it and they commending it to the several Classical Presbyteries to be considered of whether some further course was not to be held for the information of the one and the reformation of the other then yet had been taken notwithstanding their neglect and what they judged fittest to be done for the attaining those ends and to represent their thoughts therein to the next Assembly This Classis upon the whole concluded to represent their apprehensions in the Case as is expressed in the Paper that was published which was approved of before by the Provincial Assembly and which they judge is sufficiently awarranted in regard of any thing therein contained by the rules expressed in the above-mentioned form of Church Government We having thus far shewed what we have been and are awarranted to practice by the several Ordinances above mentioned shall now proceed further to declare That however we are no Lawyers and therefore leave the determination of the Case to the learned in the Law to judge of to whom it belongs yet if it may be lawful for us to judge of a matter of this nature from the principles of reason It seems to us that the above mentioned Ordinances about Church Government as well as other Ordinances of Parliament are confirmed in the humble Advice assented unto by his Highnesse in the 16. section thereof where we finde these Words And that nothing contained in this Petition and Advice nor your Highnesse consent rhereunto shall be construed to extend to the repealing or making void of any Act or Ordinance which is not contrary hereunto or to the matters herein contained But that the said Acts and Ordinances not contrary hereunto shall continue and remain in force in such manner as if this present Petition and Advice had not at all been had or made or your Highnesse consent thereunto given Whence we gather that if in the several Ordinances for Church Government there be nothing contrary to the humble Advice or to the matters therein contained they are not thereby any more then any other Acts or Ordinances of Parliament repealed but left to remain in force At least there seems to us to be a plain intimation that they have a force in them which is not by this humble Advice repealed and made void For it doth not appear to us That there is any thing in the form of Church Government or any other Ordinances of Parliament about that matter that is contrary to the humble Advice or matters therein contained And whereas in the eleventh section there is mention made of some that differ in worship and discipline from the publique profession of these Nations held forth to whom some indulgence is granted It seems to us there is an acknowledgement and owning of what the late Parliament held forth in regard of these by the Directory for worship and form of Church Government which they passed as the publique profession of these Nations in regard of worship and discipline And in these apprehensions we are the more confirmed because here in this section mention is made of a confession of faith to be agreed on by his Highnesse and the Parliament there having nothing in that kind passed the late Parliament that established the Directory for worship and form of Church Government However there had been a Confession of faith drawn up by the late Assembly of Divines Whence it seemes to us clear that they own the Directory for worship and the form of Church Government to be that which they hold forth as the publique profession of the Nation for worship and Government To the same purpose we finde in the Government of the Common-wealth of England Scotland and Ireland c. As it was publiquely declared at Westminster Decemb. 16 1653. pag. 43. Sect. 37. Where also they expresse a worship and Discipline publiquely held forth which must needs referre to the Directory and form of Church Government by us recited There being no other worship or discipline that then had or now hath the civil Sanction in this Nation We have been large in what we have here represented in the general before we come to speak more particularly to the rest that now follows in your paper But our pains being the greater to make this full representation unto you then it will be for you to read it we must intreat you to excuse us considering it tends as well to rectifie your mistakes as to vindicate our selves being also desirous not to be mistaken any more as also because it layes a foundation for our briefer and more particular Answer unto what follows and to which these â—hings being thus premised we now come SECT V. IN the things wherein you professe your selves to dissent till further explicated and unfolded by us 1 The first thing we meet with here is That by the many Persons of all sorts that are members of Congregations and mentioned in our Paper in your sense thereof we seem to hint that thereby we mean onely such who have admitted themselves members of some Congregation within your association and yet live inordinately c. And that therefore you who never were any members or associates of ours are not within the verge and compasse
end of the World in a succession of a lawfull ordained Ministry And in your next Paper you falling foule upon us and charging us with a rent indeed a Schisme in the highest you add which is not satisfied but with the utter overthrow of the Church from whom they rent Here you lay a great stress upon Episcopacy and such an one as none of our true Protestant Divines that defend the truth of our own and other reformed Churches against the Papists would ever have layd upon it But here two things are hinted which we shall severally examine 1. You intimate that by the taking away of Episcopacy the Church is overthrowne it cannot be continued amongst us from Age to Age to the end of the World except Episcopacy be restored 2. But yet there is a further Implication sc That there cannot be a Succession of a lawfull ordained Ministry which Succession yet you intimate to be necessary to the being of the Church if we have not Bishops againe that may Ordain 1. Unto the first of these we shall answer after we have premised a distinction touching the word Church For either the Church of God amongst us which you here speak of is taken essentially for that part of the Catholick visible Church which in regard of the place of its abode in this Land is called the Church of England as the severall parts of the Sea which yet is but one receive their Denomination from the Shoares they wash Or else you take the word Church for a Ministeriall Church or for the Church represensative as it is taken Matth. 18. 27. This premised we answer If you take the word Church in the former sense your Position is very gross no other then this that for want of Bishops the whole Church of England is at present overthrowne and that there is no way of recovery of it but by the restoring of them and so in the mean season it is no Church with whom we may safely hold Communion which layes a Foundation for separation from it and of Apostasie unto Rome where Bishops may be had We shall therefore to this say no more but onely mind you of what is well observed by Mr. Baxter out of B. Jewell in the defence of the Agreement of the Worcestershire Ministers Page 58. where he hath these words B. Jewell in his defence of the Apology Authorised to be kept in all Churches Part 2. Page 131. Neither doth the Church of England depend on them whom you so often call Apostates as if our Church were no Church without them They are no Apostates Mr. H c. Notwithstanding if there were not one neither of them nor of us left alive yet would not the whole Church of England flee to Lovaine Tertullian saith Nonne Laici sacerdotes sumus Scriptum est regnum quoque sâ—cerdotes Deo patri suo nos fecit differentiam inter ordinem plebem constituit ecclesiae authoritas honos per ordinis concessum sanctificatus a Deo Vbi ecclesiastici ordinis non est concessus offert tingit sacerdos qui est ibi solus Sed ubi tres sunt Ecclesia est licet Laici But if you take the word Church for a Ministeriall or Organized Church we oppose your Position with these following Arguments 1. That which we have already proved sc That a Bishop and a Presbyter are all one in Scripture acceptation will necessarily inferre that the being of a Ministeriall or Organized Church doth not depend on the continuance or restauration of Bishops taking them for such as are superiour to Presbyters either in regard of Order or Jurisdiction For though these be never restored yet Presbyters being continued that yet are Bishops in Scripture sense the Organized and Ministeriall Church of Christ is fufficiently secured against the danger of perishing 2. But by the Tenent you here hold forth you do very uncharitably unchurch the best reformed Churches throughout the World The Protestant Churches of France Scotland the Low countries and Geneva must all be pâ—t out of the number of free Organized and Ministeriall Churches and their Ministers must because they admit not the Bishops that you are for be accounted no lawfull Ministers Yea you here againe very undutifully unchurch your Mother the Church of England if she restore not Episcopacy and herein gratifie the Papists no little that vilifie her and other reformed Churches as no true Churches and â—ry out against their Ministers as no lawfull Ministers But blessed be God both the Church of England and other reformed Churches and their Ministers have had and still have better Advocates and more dutifull Sonnes then you herein approve your selves to be to plead their Cause 3. By this Tenent also it will follow That all the Ordinances that are dispensed in these Churches are null and void Their Baptisme is no Baptisme The Sacrament of the Lords Supper Administred amongst them is no Sacrament and the like must be said of all the Ordinances that are dispensed in our Church by such as were not ordained by Bishops and so it makes them as to outward Church-Priviledges no better then meer Heathens and hereupon it ministers occasion of endless Doubts and Scruples unto the Members of those Churches of questioning the validity of their Baptisme and whether they ought not to be rebaptized which doubts also by your Tenent are occasioned also to all those among your selves that were baptized by such Ministers as were not Ordained by Bishops Thus you see how you lay the Foundation of Anabaptisme which yet you would seem to be zealous Opposers of 4. Add hereunto that hence it will unavoidably follow That you must not hold any Communion with these Churches nor such Congregations in the Church of England where these Ordinances are dispensed by such as were not Ordained by Bishops their Ministers according to your Doctrine being not lawfull Ministers and for the Ordinance dispensed by them null and void And here is a Rent indeed a rent in the highest to use your owne expressions from which our old Episcopall Divines that were sound Protestants would never have excused you no nor Doctor Vsher with whom in some things you profess to close For however he is represented by Doctor Bernard to have held that a Bishop had Superiority in degree above a Presbyter by Apostolicall Institution and had expressed himselfe sharply enough in his Letter to Doctor Bernard Touching the Ordination made by such Presbyters as had severed themselves from Bishops yet a little after speaking of the Churches of the Low-Countries * he sayth For the testifying his Communion with these Churches which he professeth to love and honour as true Members of the Church Universall he should with like affection receive the blessed Sacrament at the hands of the Dutch Ministers if he were in Holland as he should at the hands of the French Ministers if he were in Charenton By which you may perceive however he held those Churches
Apostles in the Synod at Jerusalem and the Fathers of the Nicene Council and others we instanced in to endeavour their conviction in the due use of all good meanes before there was a process to excommunication We remembred also how quick the Prelates were in thundering out their excommunications against such as though godly and religious were in those times accounted by them to be schismatical and we thought it requisite to bear witness against those manner of proceedings But of this you take no notice and we do not much wonder for we see you count all those that severed themselves from the Bishops schismatical and may be if they had power again in their hands you did not much matter though you are willing the scandalous should be admonished before if all these for their great schisme in your esteem were forthwith excommunicated Thirdly As touching publick Catechizing we said we heartily wished it had been more generally practised in our own Church at home as it is practised by the reformed Churches abroad But by our own Church we meant the Church of England as it is a national Church and in which though Catechizing was enjoyned in former times yet it was neither so generally and constantly practised as it should have been else we should not have had so much cause to have complained of the gross ignorance of so many aged persons in our Congregations who were nor trained up under the Presbyterian but Prelatical Government as now we have And here we observe that when you profess you are glad to hear us so heartily wish that Catechizing had been more generally practised it is but that you may take occasion to affix the greater blot upon us for you would have it to be our Churches in whom this neglect is chiefly or only to be found and it is we that are again by you charged with separation that have by our pretended reformation as you are pleased to speak destroyed this practice We wish as heartily in this case as we did in the other that you may be sensible how prone you are to revile and slander and pray to God that it may not be laid to your charge But you might have remembred that as we professed our selves to be for publick Catechizing which blessed be God is practised in our Churches though you would make the world to believe that we had destroyed it so we professed to be for private too that so such as were not like in regard of age or timorousness to be brought to instruction by the publick might yet by the private gain some knowledge In the Paper also that was published in the Congregations there was some order appointed for the better and more convenient practice of it And doubtless by how much we were willing to be at the more pains for the information of the ignorant the greater fault will lie at your doores and be charged upon you if you repent not of it that by your opposition you have not only laboured to obstruct the good courses by us propounded for the help of poor ignorant souls but accused us also that by our pretended reformation we have destroyed Catechizing Here also we take notice that however in your first Paper you had a proviso touching Catechizing that it be publick and that we thereupon gave you some reason though briefly for private Catechizing yet this you wholly pass over in silence and say nothing to it thus you pretend to make a reply to our answer and yet but speak to what of it you please But if you had manifested any dissatisfaction touching private Catechizing we should here have proceeded to have given further reasons for it although this work is so fully done to our hands by Mr. Baxter in his Gildas Salvianus that it would have been needless unto those that have read that Book and whereunto for his further satisfaction we referre the Reader if he desire it Fourthly If we understood you aright in this that you held it not fitting that persons grosly ignorant should be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper the conclusion that we inferred hence stands good against any thing brought by you to invalidate it But here we observe you stretch it beyond its scope and that in two particulars 1. In that you would have it referre to examination before the Eldership which was not that which we spake of we only said there ought to be examination and triall of all persons before they be admitted to the Lords Supper not determining here touching the persons by whom this examination was to be made but only inferring that then there ought to be this examination that so the grosly ignorant might not be admitted as they might be if all promiscucusly were to be admitted without any triall at all and which was the reason that we alleadged in our answer for the inference we made and which still stands good you urging nothing at all to take away the strength of it It is true that the examination and judgement of all such as shall for their ignorance not be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper is to be in the power of the Eldership of every Congregation and not in the power of one Minister only by the rules of our Government But this was not the thing we there spake of we only concluded that there ought to be an examination and hoped that we had gained from your own concession this one further step toward an agreement betwixt you and us that all such persons as should be admitted to the Sacrament of the Lords Supper must be examined by some or other not determining by whom there being no way to discover the ignorant but by triall And as touching our practice it is well known that when the Eldership is satiâ—fied touching the knowledge of such as offer themselves to that Sacrament upon the examination of a Minister and one Elder or upon the examination of two Ministers however none is to bâ— debarred for their ignorance but by the juridical act of the Eldership and which is for the better securing of the Church-priveledges to the members then to have left the power to the Minister alone such are not required to be examined before the Eldership but are upon the testimony of the examiners there being nothing to be objected justly against them admitted by the authority of the Eldership 2. There is also another thing wherein you would make our inference to be that which indeed it was not for neither did we speak concerning any examination de novo of such persons as had been formerly admitted our words recited even now and to be seen in our answer do plainly speak concerning an examination before admission to the Lords Supper not concerning an examination de novo Indeed we shall neither be ashamed of nor deny what is our practice which is to take a triall of all the communicants de novo before admission of them to the Lords Supper We
therefore you and all men may discern that when you say speaking of the humble Advice that in the eleventh Section all Ministers throughout the Land and their Assemblies professing the true Protestant Religion though of different judgments in worship and discipline are all of them equally protected in the liberty of their profession that proposition is a great deal larger then the humble Advice will allow of it expresly concluding even from that protection allowed to some others the way of Prelacy though it should be set up by some Ministers and others of the Protestant Religion and therefore all Ministers and their Assemblies though professing the Protestant Religion cannot equally lay claim to the protection there spoken of But for answer to all that you here urge out of this eleventh Section of the humble Advice we shall say two things 1. That as your selves speak only of protection allowed by it to some persons of different judgement in worship or discipline so whoever will peruse this Section shall not find that it saith one word touching the restraint of the exercise of Church-discipline towards any when it speaks of some that shall differ in other things sc that had been mentioned particularly before in doctrine worship or discipline from the publick profession held forth to whom it allows protection from injury as it grants them a freedom from mulcts and civil penalties and then after of such Ministers or publick Preachers who shall agree with the publick profession in matters of faith although in their judgement and practice they differ in matters of worship and discipline whom it makes capable being otherwise duely qualified and duely approved of some special grace and favour that the former sort are not capable of it is plain from those expressions that it owns a publique discipline which is not held forth any where but in the forme of Church Government established by Ordinance of Parliament for the Church of England and Ireland Aug. 29. 1648. that hath been often times mentioned But you will not find that the exercise of this publick discipline held forth is any where at all in this Section prohibited or that it is restrained in regard of its exercise towards any or limited only in that respect to the Ministers and Assemblies of this or the other perswasion And yet that this publick discipline held forth as aforesaid might be free from all suspition of any undue rigour or harshness towards any we shall here mention one rule which we recited with several other things in our answer to your first Paper touching the Order prescribed in the forme of Church Government of proceeding to excommunication which runs in these words But the persons who hold other errours in judgment about points wherein learned and godly men possibly may or do differ and which subvert not the faith nor are destructive to godliness or that be guilty of such sins of infirmity as are commonly found in the children of God or being otherwise sound in the faith and holy in life and so not falling under censure by the former rules endeavour to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace and do yet out of conscience not come up to the observation of all those rules which are or shall be established by authority for regulating the outward worship of God and government of his Church the sentence of excommunication for these causes shall not be denounced against them By this one rule it is very clear that as this discipline is not to be accused of undue severity so there is no repugnancy between the humble Advice and it 2. That which in the second place we have to say is that admitting your proposition were fully as large in the humble Advice in regard of the persons to whom you would have liberty to be extended as you have laid it down which yet we have shewed is not so yet how inconsequently do you argue when you will inferre an exemption of persons from Church censures authorized to be exercised by the forme of Church Government from the humble Advice because it affords them a protection against civil injuries As if this proposition were most certainly true All those that according to the humble Advice are to be protected against civil injuries are thereby exempted from Church censures and yet this must be proved or your consequence is never proved But to make that out we shall allow you time and in the mean season must deny it And so now all you have to the conclusion of this Section is but meer varnish although we are able to tell you as we have told you even now and often before what power is granted unto us who act by an unrepealed Ordinance of Parliament and yet in force that others have not although when you say are these within the bounds of our association subject to our Government unless they will renounce their Baptism and Christianity and which you would represent us to assert in that recital you make of our words in the beginning of the next Section you do therein manifestly offer violence to the words of our answer for if the Reader peruse the first part of the fifth Section of our answer he may there find that we declared our selves in the first place fully against those of the separation and concluded that discourse with these words that hereupon our work was not to constitute Churches but to reforme them only And that therefore none within our bounds except they shall renounce Christianity and their Baptisme can be deemed by us to be without in the Apostles sense this being our answer to what you had pressed us with in your first Paper pleading your exemption from under our Governement from the words of the Apostle and saying for what have you to do to judge those that are without The conclusion then that we inferd did answer that argument you urged from the Apostles words For its plain from our declaring our selves we judged none to be without in the Apostles sense but only Heathens of whom the Apostle spake or such as having formerly professed Christianity did renounce it and their Baptisme and that therefore none could be exempted by those words of the Apostle from being within the verge of our Presbyterian Governement which was the inference we thereupon made By all which it is very clear in what sense those words were to be taken that you here mention and that we did not say that except men did renounce Christianity and their Baptisme they were subject to our Government as you would have it to be but that they could not be judged by us to be without in the Apostles sense except they should make so great an apostacy and wherein we were more liberal and charitable toward you then you were toward your selves It is one thing that makes a member of the Catholick visible Church and another that makes a member of this or that particular Church as it is also true that
or tendered his judgment as an umpire and composer of differences betwixt us as you here say although we reverence him as a man that was learned and godly and of a farre different spirit from the generality of those that dote upon Episcopacy but for what purpose we quoted him and how farre we accord with him we have as in answer to this occasionally so fully declared our sâ—lves before in our answer to your second Paper And therefore you should not have been thus rash as to impute such things to us for which there is not the least shew of truth as there is not any in what you further adde saying that you would have closed with us on our own termes unto which we have spoken sufficiently in the beginning of this answer to this Paper shewing how much you forgot your selves when you said so before And we must further tell you that however you may conceive of us yet we can still profess with a good conscience that we can cordially our selves joyn in Dr. Bernards wish and heartily recommend it to all sober spirited and godly persons that are sound in the main points of Religion though of different opinions in some things touching Church Government that they would close therein there be nothing more that we long after then an happy healing of breaches amongst those that are the children of peace 4. We having thus vindicated our selves do now come to what followes where you say that Presbytery in the Fathers and Scripture expressions you reverence but ours you still term a common fold and thâ—se godly pretences of ours as you call them as so many waste Papers wherein our Presbytery you say is wrapped to make it look more handsomely and pass more currantly But if you had reverenced Scripture expressions as it had been meet you should you would have abstained from terming our Presbytery a common fold that Presbytery which you acknowledge to be the Scripture expression according to the interpretation of the Fathers by you alleadged being thereby reproached that being Presbytery still and part of that that by you is so ignominiously spoken of as seeing it is disputed betwixt you and us whether ruling Elders be not comprehended under the latitude of the word Presbytery when speech is touching the Ecclesiastical judicatory due reverence unto Scriptural institutions would have withheld you from coming near to the vilifying that which you are not certain but may be of God especially considering how the reformed Churches abroad the late reverend pious and learned Assembly of Divines at home the Provincial Assembly of London and the Ministers of the Provincial Assembly of this County to which you owe respect do all conceive the ruling Elders to be Officers of the Church appointed therein by Christ and so consequently may be comprehended under the latitude of the word Presbytery But the truth is we have cause to fear that you or most of you are so much devoted to Episcopacy that Presbytery in any sense is not any further in esteem with you as any Government of the Church to be owned by you but as you apprehend in this juncture of affairs it being admitted for the present with Prelacy moderated might be a step to erect again in time Episcopacy in its full height and which we judge to be that cause which in your Preface to these Papers you have printed you profess to love as we do also conceive we may further say without transgression of any rules of charity that if the late King had not been too much bent for the upholding of that kind of Episcopacy that was on foot in his time that spoiled the Pastors of the Churches of that rule which our Church acknowledged did of right belong to them and had not been therein backed with the concurrence of some of you and sundry others throughout the Land that were therein fully of his mind the proposals of Dr. Usher touching the reduction of Episcopacy to the forme of Synodical Government had been more readily complied with then they were to the prevention in likelihood in a good measure of those troubles that afterward did arise about Church Government But however there was no reason why either he or you should have called Presbytery a common fold or why you should though you had been backed with the authority of the greatest Prince on earth have called it the anguis in herbâ whereof you had need to beware and to which you here say nothing though you used that expression concerning it in your first Paper And whereas you had also there said referring to the Paper we published in our several Congregations that she came ushered in with godly pretence of sorrow for the sins and ignorance of the times and the duty incumbent on us to exercise the power that Christ had committed to us for edification and not destruction and then said that these were but so many wast Papers wherein Presbytery was wrapped up to make it look more handsomely and pass more currently yet that is no purgation of you from your uncharitable censuring of us and usurping that which belonged not to you in making your selves judges of that which fell not under your cognizance and which was that which we had charged you with in our answer but from which you do not here acquit yourselves But as touching our selves we are not conscious that we have so farre transgressed the rules of charity in passing hard censures either upon him you or any others but that we may approve our selves here to God touching our innocency herein and the sincerity of our hearts and hereafter stand with boldness before the Tribunal of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ at the great day and we do heartily wish that neither any of you or any others throughout these Nations who adhered to the late King in that war he levyed against the Parliament had given the occasion justly to be complained of at that day as therein his greatest enemies The Gentlemens Paper Sect. VI. And now we come you say to frame an Objection out of your Paper and return our Answer profeising that we pray for the establishment of such a Church Government throughout his Highness Dominions as is consonant to the will of God and Universal practise of primitive Churches By which two viz. the will of God and Uinversal practise of Churches we seem to make up the rule as you say for deciding of Controversies of this Nature or of any other in matters of Religion In which you profess to differ greatly from us as not sound and orthodox For the Word of God is the onely rule to judg of matters of this Nature or of any other matters of Religion and therefore away with the constant and Universal practise of the Church We might have cut the matter a great deal shorter and said That we are for the establishment of that Government that is most consonant to the will of God revealed in
Scriptures and that the Word of God alone should determine this controversie c. Who can forbear laughter to see Scripturists under the Gospel as these under the Law Templum Domini Templum Domini crie Verbum Domini Verbum Domiui nothing but Scripture the Word of God being there the onely rule of faith and manners Take to your Bibles then and burn all other Books as the Anabaptists of old did who when they and their Bibles were left together what strange and Phantastical opinion soever came into their brain Their usual manner was to say The spirit taught it them as Mr Hooker in his preface to his Eccles Pol. The determination of Councils and Fathers and the Churches Universal practise for matters of Church Government must all be abandoned and then to that old Question of the Papists Where was your Church before Lutber or that of ours to you Where was your Church before Calvin Just like the Arguing of the Samaritanes with the Jeâ—â—s about the Antiquity of their Church on Mount Gerizim recorded by Joseplus per Saltum by a high Jump over all the Universal practise and successions of the Church you can make your Church and Church Government as ancient as you list by saying it is to be found in the Scriptures referring it to Christ and the Apostles nay higher yet if you please to the Jewish Sanhedrim 1500. years at least before Christ Mr Henderson will assist you much in thâ—s who in his dispute with his Majesty averring that Presbyterian Government was never practised before Calvins time replyeth Your Majesty knows the Cammon Objection of the Papists against the Reformed Churches Where was your Church your Reformation your Doctrine before Luthers time One part of the Common Answer is it is to be sound in the Scriptures the same I affirm of Presbyterian Government Thus he Make you such defence in behalf of your Church but thanks be to God the Protestant cause hath not doth not nor we hope will ever want far abler Disputants and Champions in her defence against her adversaries then he or you be For though we grant and shall ever pay that reverence to the sacred Scriptures that it is an unsallible unerring rule yet may we not crie up Scripture to the contempt and neglect of the Church which the Scripture it self teacheth men both to honour and obey We will indeavour therefore to give either their due according to Christs institution that the Scripture where it is plain should guide the Church and the Church where there 's doubt or difficulty should expound the Scriptures as saith a Bishop And you your selves may remember what you affirm of General Councils the Churches Representative nay more of your Provincial Assemblies even in your Answer to that you call the preface to our Paper That there is in them invested an Authoritative juridicall power to whose Authority you profess your selves to be subject and to which all ought to submit alledging 1 Cor. 14. 32. Matth. 18. and Acts 15. for proof hereof to Inquire into Trie Examine Censure and judge of Matters of Doctrine as well as of Discipline And tax us as if we refused to submit in such matters to the Judgement of a General Council Though here you retract and eat your own words casting it out as unsound and Hetrodox what was before a Christians duty to practise You still own subjection in matters of Doctrine and discipline to the Judgement and determination of your Provincial Assemblies though you deny the Authority of General Councils and the Catholique Church That those should be our guide and rule and comment upon the Word of God to tell us what is his will revealed there touching Church Government and discipline Said we not truely that you seem to submit to your Provincial what you will hardly grant to a General Council But the Church as we have said where there 's doubt or difficulty may expound the Scripture though it be tied as you have said to the rule of Gods Words in such proceedings as Judges to the Law and we are concluded and bound up by that as we are to those cases in the Law which are the Judgement and Exposition of the Judges upon the dark places of the same The Churches exposition and practise is our rule in such cases and the best rule too As our late King affirmeth viz. Where the Scripture is not so clear and punctuall in precepts there the constant and Vniversal practise of the Church in things not contrary to reason faith good manners or any positive command is the best rule that Christians can follow So when there is a difference about â—nterpretation of Scripture that we may not seem to abound in our own sense or give way to private interpretation Dominari fidei to Lord it over the faith of others we are not to utter our own phansies or desires to be believed upon our bare word but to deliver that sense which hath been a foretime given by our fore-Fathers and fore-runners in the Christian saith and so we necessarily make another Judge and rule for interpretation of Scripture or else we prove nothing Thus have the best and ablest defenders of our Protestant Religion defended it against the Papists out of the Word of God too but not according to their own but the sense which the Fathers unanimously in the primitive Church and Councils gave See Mr Philpot that glorious Martyr in Queen Maries dayes to the like Question propounded viz. How long hath your Church stood Answereth from the beginning from Christ from the Apostles and their Immediate Successors And for proof thereof desires no better rule then what the Papists many times bring in on their side to wit Antiquity Universality and Unity And Calvin acknowledgeth as in our last Paper we shewed you there can be no better nor surer remedy for Interpretation of Scripture then what the Fathers in the primitive Churches gave especially in the first four General Councils of Nice Constantinople Ephesus and Chalcedon which contain nothing saith he but the pure and genuine Interpretation of Scripture and which he professeth to embrace and reverence as hallowed and inviolable So they rest not in private interpretation but willingly submit to a judg and rule besides the Scriptures even such as the Papists themselves cannot except against viz. the primitive Churches practise and Universal and unanimous consent of Fathers and general Councils By these our Church is content to be tryed and to this rule we bring the Church Government to be tried thereby And on this score your Presbytery is quite our of doors being of examples and practise of the Church and Testimonies of the Fathers wholly destitute wherein as the King hath it the whole stream runs so for Episcopacy that that there 's not the least rivulet for any others Which you being sensible of have no way to evade this rule but una liturâ to blot out all records and monuments
but upon this representation that we have made and the Reader his perusing what he may find in our answer more fully and what you here reply unto it comparing all together he will be better able to judge concerning the whole matter as we doubt not but he will conceive the arguments we urged against the rule you had laid down for the deciding of controversies in matters of Religion standing still in their full strength it will not be necessary for us to urge any more to that purpose till these that we have already urged be answered 2. Yet because you say something against what we insinuated touching making the word of God alone the determiner and so be judge concerning all controversies in Religion and particularly concerning that betwixt you and us touching Church Government we shall first examine what you oppose thereunto and then shall give our reasons for this assertion We cannot call what you oppose us with Arguments but what you say such as it is we shall speak to 1. And first For our laying down this rule you cannot it seems your selves forbear laughter and think it strange if there be any that can forbear laughing hereat with you and then you rail upon us calling us Scripturists and such as cry verbum Domini verbum Domini nothing but Scripture the word of God being there the only rule of faith and manners If these words had been belched out by some railing Rabshakeh a stranger to the true God and the true Religion we should have held our peace and not answered you a word according to the Commandment that was given by Hezekiah saying answer him not or had they been uttered by some Papist or Popish Priest we should not much have wondered but when they come out of the mouths of such as profess themselves to be Protestants and dissenting Christians though in the principle here laid down touching the judge of controversies you are downright Popish and that Mr. Allen an ancient Protestant Minister hath put his hand to such stuff as this who should not have reproached his fellow brethren upon this account it being no wayes allowable that Ministers should press any thing upon the consciences of their people but what they do bring verbum Domini the word of the Lord for We cannot here be silent but must needs tell you that seeing now your Papers are published to the world we must expect a publike retractation of what you have thereby so much dishonoured God and justly offended and grieved the Church of God and not us onely and had the intended treaty gone on we should have insisted on satisfaction as we hinted to you in discourse for that distemper of spirit that you do here and elswhere in your Paper let forth though then the more private might have served the turn before we could have closed with you in any way of accommodation 2. But in the next place you paralell us with those under the Law that cried Templum Domini Templum Domini though we are sure that you cry the Church the Church that is Templum Domini the Temple of the Lord to the prejudice of the Scriptures that are verbum Domini the word of the Lord. 3. Then you come to compare us with the Anabaptists of old of whom you say when they and their Bibles were left together what strange phantasticall opinion soever came in their brain their usuall manner was to say the spirit taught it them quoting Mr. Hooker And yet in the beginning of your second Paper we were your dear friends nay more brethren dearly beloved to you in the Lord to whom you returned hearty thanks for our Answer full of civility towards you and thus we might have continued in your esteem of us if we could have come up to your termes in admitting of Episcopacy and casting out the ruling Elders 4. In the next place you proceed to misrepresent our assertion and to father that upon us which is not true and whether that be not slandering we leave it to you to judge for as upon our asserting the Word of God alone to be the judge of all controversies in matters of Religion it followes not that then we must take to our Bibles and burn all other books as you say but rather being the Scriptures are the onely judge and these are profound and deep we must use the greatest diligence and best helps we can to come to understand what is the will and mind of God revealed there so upon this account though we dare not build our faith upon such an unsure foundation as the determination of Councils and Fathers and the Churches practice for matters of Church Government or any other matter in Religion yet we are farre from abandoning or despising them which yet is that you here charge us with But it is you who attribute more unto them then ever the great Champions for the Protestant cause did that will be found joyning hands in this point with the Papists enquiring where was our Church before Luther and whom our Divines answering sufficiently from the Scriptures do yet ex superabundanti prove the main points of the Protestant Religion wherein they differ from them both from Councils and Fathers and making that plea for that Church Government for which you contend and against that which we from the Scriptures argue for which the Papists did against our Protestant Divines for their unwritten traditions and superstitious ceremonies and devotion For you ask of us where was our Church you here sure mean where was our Presbyterian Government else you take not the Church of England to which you belong to be the Church you are members of before Calvin But we answer you though we need not take such an high jumpe over all the practice and successions of the Church as you talk of being able ex superabundanti to evidence it from antiquity in the purer times of the Primitive Church after Christ and his Apostles whereof we have given some account already and shall anon give some further yet it will be sufficient for us and all sound Protestants if we can prove it to be as ancient not as we list but as the Scriptures of the old and new Testament wherein it is to be found and whereof we have given some account also out of what we have in our second Paper urged out of the Vindication of the Presbyterian Government by the Provinciall Assembly of London and the Jus Divinum Regiminis Ecclesiastici by some London Ministers and of which the Reader and you also if you would take the pains to peruse them may see more at large not onely in Mr. Rutherford's works but also in Aarons Rod blossoming written by Mr. George Gillespi and in the Assertions of the Government of Scotland conceived by some to be penned by the same M. Gillespi yet therein assisted by Mr. Henderson wherein the jus Divinum of the ruling Elders office is proved not onely from the new
Testament but also from the ould and which books proving the Presbyterian Government as from Christ and his Apostles so also from the Jewish judicatories to which some conceive Christ alludes Matth. 18. when he saith tell the Chutch which were appointed many hundred years before Christ and answering the opposers of this Government in all the materiall points that ever were objected against it by the greatest Champions for Episcopacy were never yet answered that we have seen to this day And for this assistance however you contemn it yet we bless God neither are we ashamed of Mr. Hendersons answer to his late Majesty telling him that the Presbyterian Government was to be found in the Scriptures as our Divines have answered the Papists sufficiently after the same manner touching other matters as we are not ashamed neither to make this defence on the behalf of our Church And though we thank God heartily for those farre abler disputants and Champions of the Protestant cause then we or any of us have ever pretended to be not thinking our selves worthy to be mentioned for any abilities amongst them yet we desire to know which of those Champions though they refused not to fight against the Papists with their own weapons sc the testimonies of Fathers and Councils did ever refuse the Scriptures as the sole judge and determiner of controversies in matters of Religion as you do or did they not rather stoutly and irrefragably maintain and defend this main point of faith against the adversary 5. But now you come to tell us what reverence you pay to the sacred Scripture for you say you acknowledg it to be an infallible and unerring rule And will not a Papist say so too But let us enquire of you will you acknowledge the Scripture to be the sole supreme judge of controversies in matters of faith Except you come up to this you are as yet in regard of any reverence you pay to the Scriptures no further then a Papist nay you joyn hands with them for they say as you do we may not cry up Scripture to the contempt and neglect of the Church which the Scripture it self teacheth men to honour and obey and sano sensu in a right and sound sense we shall say so too But you further declare your selves touching this matter and say that the Scripture where it is plain should guid the Church and the Church where there is doubt or difficulty should expound the Scriptures as saith a Bishop and you quote in your margent BP Laud's Preface that is not against Usher but Fisher * But here 1. You mistake the Question for it is not Whether to the Church belongeth not a Ministry for the expounding of the Scriptures This is readily granted to her by us as it is by our Protestant Divines and that the Texts you cite in the margent will prove 2. You plainly discover your opinion to be no other then what in this point is held by the Papists and is abundantly refuted by our Protestant Divines in their writings The matter is plainly thus and no otherwise for when you say where the Scripture is plain it must guid the Church but where there is a doubt or difficulty the Church is to expound the Scriptures you plainly insinuate that the Scriptute is not to be the sole and supreme judge touching controversies in Religion for there is no controversie in Religion but the Adversaries be they Antitrinitarians Arrians Papists or whomsoever may say as you here do in such and such points in controversie the Scripture is not plain here is a doubt and difficulty and we must stand to the Churches determination who is in such cases to expound the Scripture neither is the Scripture in such cases to be the onely sure infallible interpreter of it self to which all parties are to stand and in whose determination alone they are to rest and into which our faith must be resolved which yet is that which is maintained by our Protestant Divines against the Papists and of which we shall speak more fully anon Onely for the present we must mind you that this assertion is fetcht out of the dreggs of Popery and is such an opinion as all sound Protestants will disclaim neither do the Texts you cite in your margent prove any such a thing Not 1 Tim. 3. 15. that is usually urged by the Papists for that very opinion which you maintain but is sufficiently vindicated by our Divines shewing that the Church is there called the Pillar and ground of Truth in regard of her Ministry onely by her preaching publishing and defending the truth and thereby transmitting it to posterity but not to intimate that the Scripture in any point where there is doubt or difficulty did borrow authority from the Church no more then the Edicts of Princes do from the publishers of them or from the pillars and posts to which they are affixed that they might be the more generally known The other Text sc Cant. 1. 8. proves indeed that the Church hath a Ministry committed to her for the feeding of babes in Christ as well as stronger men which is not denied but if you will stretch it further its plain you wrest it 6. In the last place you urge us with what we our selves granted unto Synods and Councils acknowledging they were invested with an authoritative juridicall power to enquire into try examine censure and judge of matters of Doctrine as well as of Discipline and to whose authority we professed our selves to be subject and to which all ought to submit urging Scripture for it c. nothing whereof we do here retract or eat our own words casting that out as unsound and hetrodox as you say we do which before we acknowledged was a Christians duty to practise For here you do not distinguish betwixt the submission of our faith to the determination of Synods and Councils and the submission of our persons to their censure in regard of any matter of Doctrine held forth by us or any practice This latter submission we still do readily yeeld unto them and that in regard of the juridicall authority they are invested with by the Ordinance of God and this submission was that we professed before to yeeld unto them and was that we argued for But as touching the submission of our faith to their determinations or so as to resolve it into any other principles then the Word of God alone or to build it on any other foundation was not that reverence we ever acknowledged was to be paid to Synods and Councils and is that which here we do professedly deny And therefore you do here again no less then slander us when you say we still own subjection in matters of Doctrine and Discipline to the judgment and determination of our Provinciall Assembly and yet deny the Authority of General Councils and the Catholique Church whom neither we ever denied to be a guide or their Expositions of Scripture to be an usefull
Episcopacy you conclude us guilty of a rent indeed a schisme in the highest But herein you were contradicted by Mr. Allen himself in the presence of others of you that subscribed this Paper in a full Class to which he and severall of you resorted which makes us the more to wonder how he could subscribe this Paper who looking about him upon the Ministers that were present said they were free from that with which we are here charged there being none there that had sworn Canonicall obedience c. although here you say we or many of us did so as hereupon it will follow from your own principle laid down that we who according to Mr. Allens own confession never associated with the Episcopall Hierarchy or swore any obedience to them are quit from that guilt of schisme with which you here charge us But because we have already hinted that you do not argue well against those of the separation to acquit our selves and all the Ministers of this Land who now disown Episcopacy to which they formerly submitted or to which any of them might have sworne Canonicall obedience from the guilt of schisme in this respect we referre the Reader to the grounds we have laid down for that purpose in our Answer to your second Paper and which whosoever will but impartially consider he will finde that it is not we but your selves that do make the rent although to heighten the charge against us you here tell us that our schisme is so great that it is not satisfied but with the overthrow of the Church which yet in our Answer to your second Paper we have sufficiently refuted and rasing out those Articles of Religion we had formerly confirmed by our own subscription as if it were an Article of the faith of the Church of England which all the Ministers thereof had subscribed that the Prelaticall Government by Archbishops Bishops c. must stand for ever or if it were at any time taken away by the Parliament and disowned by the Ministers of England they had rased out those Articles of Religion that they had once confirmed by their own subscription But you must pardon us if we be not so credulous as to conclude the same with you who in your great heat for Episcopacy do so farre overshoot 4. Unto that wherein you were unsatisfied sc what we meant by the word publick our answer was full and home but either you minded it not or though you saw your doubt was resolved yet being desirous to quarrell you would not take any notice of it for we did not only tell you that by publick Assemblies we understood the Assemblies where the publick Ordinances were dispensed which we our selves did own and constantly frequent but also said expresly as is to be seen in our answer that we do not meddle with the censuring of those who being godly and sound in the faith in the main points of Religion do yet differ from us in judgement in matters of Discipline and Government and have their Assemblies for Gods publick worship distinct from ours as we are barred from it by the rules of our Government as we have often said before These were the very words of our answer and therefore but that we see you are resolved to be satisfied with nothing and find fault with that which is expressed never so plainly we should have wondred that you should here have said that we come not home to your question whenas it is manifest from the words of our answer that though these Assemblies owned not our Discipline or we theirâ— yet we denyed them not to be the publick Assemblies or the Assemblies of the Saints as we expresly professed we never medled with the censuring of them or to take notice of their members being sound in the faith and godly in order unto censure as the forsakers of the publick Assemblies of the Saints But we here told you we were heartily sorry that you understanding our meaning as was manifest from what you after said should only move this doubt to give a lash at our private meetings which in our answer we justified but notwithstanding the lash you gave us you do neither acknowledge your fault nor reply one word to what we had said for our own defence 5. Whereas we said in our answer that seeing in the Paper which we had published in our Congregations we said notice should be taken of all those that should forsake the publick Assemblies of the Saints you might thence have gathered our purpose was to observe and censure those that did maintain and hold up pâ—iâ—ate meetings in opposition to the publick that did cry down Ministery and Ordinances and which we shewed were censurable by the rules of our Government and that therefore we were not altogether silenâ— concerning either the sin or punishment of those that did erre in Doctrinals or Discipline so as to make dangerous rents from the Church and for which silence you seemed to tax and blame us in your first Paper yet now you mention this our declared purpose to take notice of such forsakers of the Assemblies of the Saints thus characterized as a fault and so with you we are worthy of blame if we be silent touching either the sin or punishment of such and censure them not and we are also worthy of blame and punishment too as transgressors of the Laws of the Land as you will have us to be here if we shall proceed to censure such And so let us neglect our duty or performe it we are either way as you will have it blame worthy Yes and which were yet the more to be wondered at were it not manifest from what principle it proceeds you that crie out of schisme and separation and blame us for our silence touching either the sin or punishment of those that erre in Doctrinals or rend themselves from the Church yet here are become advocates to plead the cause of those that cry down our Church publick Assemblies Ministers and Ordinances For you will have these to do all this out of conscience these being your own expressions and not ours we declaring our selves plainly concerning those only that cry down our Churches and publick Assemblies Ministery and Ordinances as meant by those persons that we said held up private meetings in oppofition to publick and whom we purposed to observe and censure But these you will have also to be exempted from being censured by us as also all those who out of a principle of carelesness sloth worldliness or manifest prophaness do on the Lords day either idle out the time or else are worse employed when they should be at the publick Assemblies and whom in our answer we said we purposed to take notice of as such as did forsake the publick Assemblies of the Saints 6. But seeing you have undertaken to plead the cause of both these sorts and will have us to be sure mistaken when we said we did not transgress any Laws
of the Land which had made no proviso to exempt any of these from being censured by us we are willing to examine the utmost you have to say for them which is but only this that we can no more proceed tocensure such as forsake the publick Assemblies by vertue of any Ordinance of Parliament or rule laid down in our forme of Church Government then they may be punished by an Act of 1. Elizabeth or an Act of 35. Elizabeth or an Act of 23. of Elizabeth all which with our Ordinance as you say are repealed by an Act made Septemb 37. 1650. The title whereof you give us as you had done before By which you say the former are not only repealed but tell us what is further enacted But the strength of this allegation hath been tried before and found to be as weak as water This Act of 1650. that you insist on repealing only the Statutes or Ordinance that inflict civil punishment upon those that repair not to their respective Parish Churches c. and meddles not at all with repealing of the Ordinance authorizing the censuring of offendors with Church censures and which we have in our answer to the fourth Section of this Paper sufficiently demonstrated And therefore all that you say for those you here undertook to exempt from being censured by us is but what hath been discovered before to have no strength and so therefore is of no force at all except we must believe that by your repeating it and coming over with it again and paraphrasing upon it it had gained some new strength that it never had And so all that follows now to the conclusion of this Section is of no weight For we cannot against manifest reason to the contrary judge it to be any great boldness in us to censure those as forsakers of the publick Assemblies of the Saints who falling under the character that we have given of them are made censurable by the Ordinance establishing the form of Church Government Neither can we hereupon be brought to fear any danger of running thereby into a praemunire which you again mind us of There are only two things more we desire might be taken notice of before we pass from this Section 1. That the Act of 1650. which you quote doth so farre discountenance those who out of a principle of sloth worldliness or prophaneness frequent not the publick Assemblies that it leaves them to be punished with civil punishments as offendors against the Law notwithstanding its taking off the civil penalties from some that are mentioned in it and as is manifest from what you recite out of it and it not speaking one syllable that may carry any shew of a repeal of the Ordinance for Church Government doth both leave these and all other offendors against that Ordinance to be censured by the censures of the Church as there may be cause 2. That you having told us if notwithstanding this Act we should proceed to censure and might run our selves into a praemunire and then imputing to us such a gross assertion as if we should have said we were not to be blamed for any mistakes that might arise ab ignorantiâ juris whether simple or affected do hereby plainly discover you matter not much with what you charge us so you can but render us absurd enough For our sense is clear from the whole tenour of our discourse where we used any such expressions that we said we were not to be blamed for any mistakes in you that might arise ab ignorantiâ juris whether simple or affected we determined not but left you to examine and which is so plain that when you your selves recite our words in the beginning of the fourth Section of this Paper you represent that which doth plainly shew that there you understood us as we have declared and of which we minded the Reader in our second Animadversion on that Section But now we are the persons that affirm a thing so absurd as if we were not to be blamed for our ignorance of the Law whether simple or affected and then you cry out a strange saying and tell us that you have heard it said that ignorantia facti excusat but ignorantia juris non excusat c. But how faithfully and sincerely you have herein dealt with us the Reader may judge and we wish you in the examination of your consciences to consider The Gentlemens Paper Sect. X. To our next Quaere Whether those that forsake the publique Assemblies of the Saints in the 2d Order may not be taken for scandalous Persons and so comprehended in the 3d You Answer We conceiving your meaning to be such are not mistaken For they are really and indeed scandalous and so justly merit to be censured by you And although we be not mistaken in our conceits of you yet we must tell you you are mistaken in your own to think you may bring in any that forsake your publique Assemblies under that notion of a scandalous Person and so proceed to censure accordingly for the reasons we have given before Nay nor yet can you proceed to censure the more known scandalous in life such as you instance of Drunkards swearers and whore-masters they being all punishable by the civill Magistrate as by the several Acts made for that purpose appeareth And not by any Ecclesiastical much less by your Elderships short and blunt sword of Excommunication by any Laws now in force We are not so sensible of the Multiplicity of Canons and burdensomness of Ceremonies under which in the time of Episcopacy any truely conscientious did sigh or groan but if we may judg ex pede Herculem by the number of Canons already made in your Provincial Assemblies and elsewhere in this short usurpation of Presbytery many urged necessary de fide what they would amount to had you lived the Age of Episcopacy 1600. years and upwards we might well crie out Quare oneramini ritibus and censure you as Dr Andrews doth Bellarmine in behalf of our English Church Nobis non tam Articulosa fides quà m vestris hominibus qui ad singulas Theses crepant est de fide Vobis quibus datum est vestra omnia in eodem lumine videre quibus vestra omnia ab eodem proponente infallibili habere abundare licet Articulis ad Arthritim usque c. The Animadversions of the Class upon it 1. HEre you having nothing to object against the reason we had given you in our answer why though such as forsake the publick Assemblies of the Saints being indeed scandalous and so such as might be comprehended under the latitude of that expression we did notwithstanding mention them distinctly in a distinct order from that wherein the scandalous were mentioned have no further thing to tell us but what you had said before that we were mistaken to think we might proceed to censure under the notion of scandalous persons such as forsake the Assemblies of the Saints for the
Church government or our own practice is not at all to your purpose neither doth it if it had been as you represented which yet we have shewed you is otherwise prove what it concerned you to have made good viz. That those that present not themselves to the Eldership upon the Exhortation given by the Minister to that purpose were according to our Order to have had their names published in the Congregations and they warned before all to reforme Which yet was your high charge and accusation of us but wanting support of it self falls to the ground And hereupon it is manifest that it is not we that go about to mince the matter or that seek to colour over our actions with a seeming deniall of all or to evade what we still practice but are ashamed to own as you here without the least shadow of proofe affirme of us neither is there any thing to be found in our Answer that hath any tendency this way we there professedly defending and justifying all that we practised But it is you who having laid grevious things to our charge which you could not prove would now represent us as if we did as you say that so you might seem to say some thing though when it comes to be scan'd it is nothing but a plaine discovery that though your accusation was loud and strong your proof is low weake and empty and such as vanisheth into Aire For all the descants as you call them that we made on either Nounes or Pronouns was to shew that the Relative they in the fifth Order could not refer to the Catechized persons who being found knowing and blamelesse by the Minister though they should not according to the Exhortation of the Minister present themselves to the Eldership yet were not to have had their names published to the Congregation nor for that warned before all to reforme and which because you saw you could not make out do therefore having changed the state of the Question fall upon our practice and tell us we mince it or are ashamed of it though this be also untrue and that which you do not prove against us neither and so are doubly guilty in this one particular of false accusation But when to cleare up the sense of our words we had told you in our Answer that the Relative did often referre to the remoter and not the nearer Antecedent and must do so when the matter spoken of did require it and this you here call a weake senselesse and unheard of descanting on Nounes and Pronouns You do hereby proclaime your own ignorance the like descanting if it must be so called on Nounes and Pronounes being observed by the Learned as we have shewed you to open and expound the sense of Scripture and which you your selves must acknowledge or you shall never be able rightly in some places to understand them as from the instances we have given is manifest And you do hereby further discover your impotent passions else you would not have given us such language as we here as but too often throughout your Paper meet with As touching what follows to the conclusion we have already said what is sufficient for our own vindication We have spoken out and owned what is in truth our pactice and which we have told you is to admit of none to the Sacrament but by the juridicall act of the Eldership this being that which is requisite and necessary to be observed as we have told you or the Governement is indangered to be quite overthrown And yet none are debarred by us from the Sacrament that are knowing and blamelesse because they present not themselves before the Eldership which is that you would gladly fasten upon us though herein you labour in vain but the ignorant and scandalous only Although we here must minde you of what we told you even now viz. That this is not the Question that is now disputed betwixt us Neither do vve need upon any practice of ours or any other account whatsoever wave the Ordinance we act upon as repealed and vvhich however you do yet we must not nor be perswaded thereunto either by your threats or intreaties having proved sufficiently that this Ordinance is of force and strength to this very day that and what we have heretofore said concerning the civill sanction of our Governement is so much to the purpose that it makes this forth And so to conclude we do not question but whatever your conceits may be to the contrary others will determine that your high charge having not been supported by reason is of no vveight to the depressing of us much lesse the Presbyterian governement and vvhich though vve had fallen not having been able to have vindicated our selves from vvhat vve had been accused vvith vvould notwithstanding have been far above any depression of yours However vve believe it vvas the summa totalis and the uâ—shot of all that you chiefly aimed at in all your Papers though how you have therein acquitted your selves will be manifest enough to the attentive and impartiall Reader vvho vvill easily discerne by vvhat hath been said that you have no otherwise indeavoured to depresse this Governement but by aspersing it vvhen you vvanted Arguments vvherewith to oppose it by taking no notice of the reasons vve urged vvhen you could not Answer them and passing over many things in our Answer in silence saying nothing to them by betaking your selves to the Popish principles and practices refusing to have the controversie touching Church governement determined by the Scriptures and railing on us as Scripturists for contending to have the matter tried by this Judge by asserting severall manifest untruths and sometimes palpably contradictng your selves by falsifying and abusing approved Protestant Authors vvho favoured not the cause you plead for and aspersing others by perverting our words and mangling them vvhen you had a minde to render us absurd by many uncivill and unchristian expressions which you have used toward us to the reproaching of us by your severall bitter and reasonless scoffes jeeres uncharitable censures and slanders laying to our charge severall things for which you bring no proof and venting your distempered passions against us only because we are for Presbyterian and against Episcopall governement and to summe up all in a word by hard words but soft and weake Arguments But all wise and sober persons will conclude you fighting against us and the Presbyterians governement with such weapons as these tooke not the way either to depress it or us but have greatly hereby depressed your selves and which we mind you of that you seeing your manifold errours herein might be humbled for them and prevent that by unfeigned repentance which otherwise you have cause to feare and whereof we have all along in faithfullness warned you as there hath been occasion offered throughout your Papers though thereby what is now presented to the publick view is swelled to the greater bulke If this our pains that hath
Brethren of one and the same Church and Fellowship And we know not what other Church you mean but the Church of England some of you that are the Subscribers of this Paper not being Members of the particular Church at Manchester nor any of you acknowledging or owning our Presbyterian Classicall Church or Association And therefore you here take us to be of the same Church of England with your selves and confess that we are in fellowship with it notwithstanding Episcopacy be taken away and which is that which we our selves do constantly profess 2. That that Episcopacy that was submitted to by the Ministers of this Land of later times was burthensome and grievous It spoyled the Pastors of that power which of right did belong unto them and which they did not onely anciently exercise as Doctor Vsher shews in his Reduction of Episcopacy to the form of Synodicall Government received in the ancient Church Pag. 3 4 5. but which also by the order of the Church of England as the same Author out of the Book of Ordination shews did belong unto them For he there saith By the Order of the Church of England all Presbyters are charged to administer the Doctrine and Sacraments and the Discipline of Christ as the Lord hath commanded and as this Realm hath received and that they might better understand what the Lord hath commanded them the Exhortation of St. Paul to the Elders of the Church of Ephesus is appointed to be read unto them at the time of their Ordination Take heed unto your selves and to all the Flock among whom the Holy-ghost hath made you Overseers to rule the Congregation of God which he hath purchased with his blood All which power the Pastors were deprived of during the prevalency of Episcopacy the Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven being taken out of their hands they having neither power to cast out of the Church the vilest of Offenders that were often kept in against their minds nor any power to restore into the Churches Communion such as had been never so unjustly excommunicated though of the best of their Flock And so that Episcopacy that formerly was submitted unto was a plain and manifest usurpation upon the Pastors Office and Authority was very oppressive and grievous unto the Church and injurious to her Communion and whereupon it will follow that there is no breach of that Union which ought to be maintained in the Church by not admitting of it again but rather the Churches peace the power that of right belongs unto the Pastors and the Priviledges of the Members are all better secured in the absence then in the presence of it 3. That however both godly Conformists as well as Nonconformists did groan under the burthensomness of it yet in licitis honest is they submitted and yielded Obedience to it whilst it continued established by the Laws of the Land And that out of respect to the peace of the Church although they did not thereby take themselves obliged to forbeare the use of any lawfull means for their deliverance from that bondage as opportunity was offered And hereupon they petitioned the Parliament of late for an abolition of it as had been formerly desired in the Reign of Queen Elizabeth and King James as when other Laws have been found to be inconvenient and mischievous it was never accounted any disturbance of the civil peace to remonstrate the grievousness of such Laws to the Parliament that they might be abolished 4. Let it also be further weighed that that Episcopacy to which you would perswade us by this Argument to return is now abolished and taken away by the Authority of Parliament as appears by the Acts and Ordinances for that purpose See them cited in our Animadversions on your next Paper Sect. 4. And therefore both the Bishops as such and that Superiority which they challenged and exercised over the Ministers in this Land are dead in Law and so there can be no guilt of Schisme lying on the Ministers in this Land for not returning to that Canonicall Obedience that is not hereupon any longer due or for not submitting themselves to that power and jurisdiction that is extinct There is the greater strength in this consideration if it be observed 1. That whatever Jurisdiction the Diocesan Bishops did exercise over Presbyters they did obtain onely by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church 2. That the Parliament did lawfully take away that Jurisdiction from them and had therein the concurrence of a reverend and learned Assembly of Divines The first of these Propositions is clear upon this consideration that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter all one This is clear from Titus 1. Ver. 5. compared with the seventh whence it appears that those whom the Apostle had called Elders or Presbyters Ver. 5. he calls Bishops Ver. 7. And indeed otherwise he had reasoned very inconsequently when laying down the qualifications of Elders Ver. 6. he saith Ver. 7. For a Bishop c. For a Bishop must be blameless Whereunto may be added that other known place Act. 20. 17. compared with Ver. 28. For the Apostle saith to those Elders that the Holy-ghost had made them Bishops or Overseers of the Church Besides what Office the Bishops had that the Elders had Both are charged to feed the Flock of Christ Act. 20. 28. 1 Pet. 5. 12. and which is both by Doctrine and Government The Keys of the Kingdome of Heaven were committed to them Mat. 16. 19. both the Key of Doctrine and the Key of Discipline The former is not denyed and for the other it is proved from 1 Thes 5. 12. 1 Tim. 5. 17. Heb. 13. 7 17 24. where we see they are called 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that are over them 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that rule well 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 those that rule And for power to Ordain we may see its plain from 1 Tim. 4. 14. where Timothy is charged not to neglect the Gift that was in him which was given him by Prophesie with the laying on of the hands of the Presbytery This Text you your selves tell us in your next Paper Sect. 5. is understood by the Greek Fathers as Ignatius Chrysostome Theodoret Theophylact Oecumenius and others and some few of the Latines also Of the company of Presbyters i. e. Bishops who lay hands on the new made Bishops or Priests But from these several Texts thus urged it is very manifest that the Scripture makes a Bishop and a Presbyter both one or one and the same order of Ministry And hereupon it follows that whatever Jurisdiction the Diocesan Bishops exercised over Presbyters they had it not by Divine Right but obtained it onely by the Law of the Land and Canon of the Church And thus the first Proposition is clear We now come to make good the second And that the Parliament did lawfully take away the Jurisdiction and whole Office of Diocesan Bishops