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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A42146	The searchers for schism search'd, or, Their pretended questions for conscience sake answered wherein is proved that those baptized congregations under laying on of hands are not guilty of schism in separating from them : shewing, in opposition to their threeforld hypothesis, that their church constitution is not true, separation from them proved lawful, the truth and authority of the doctrine about which they separate, vindicated / humbly presented to all concerned [by] J. Griffith ...	Griffith, John, 1622?-1700.	1669 (1669)	Wing G2003; ESTC R41670	59,153	128

THE SEARCHERS for SCHISM SEARCH'D Or Their pretended Questions for Conscience sake ANSWERED Wherein is proved That those Baptized Congregations under Laying on of Hands are not guilty of Schism in Separating from them Shewing Supposition to their threefold Hypothesis 1 That their Church Constitution is not true 2 Separation from them proved lawful 3 The Truth and Authority of the Doctrine about which they Separate vindicated Humbly presented to all concerned J. Griffith a cordial desirer of the flourishing 〈◊〉 of the Church in Unity and Peace with 〈◊〉 and Truth but Societas in 〈…〉 tantum ab●st ab 〈◊〉 pl●… n●…aria con 〈…〉 pariter 〈…〉 Prov. 18 17. He that is first in his own cause seemeth just but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him Printed for the Author 1669. To the Baptized Disciples not under laying on of Hands is heartily wished the true knowledge of God and sincere Love with submission to the whole Doctrine of Christ desired in the way of Truth WHen we first saw your Book read the Title and how you pretend your Questions are for Conscience sake we thought Silence for some time would be the best Answer considering what hath formerly past between us about the Difference still depending and the present face of things as they now shew themselves in the world But when we came to take a view of your Epistle finding it writ by some spirit inraged rather than one desirous of satisfaction from any serious sober conscientious scruple or doubt We were invited the more to consider your Questions and finding them to strike at the root fill'd with animosity taunting and insulting terms rather than a spirit so much as sprinkled with conscious candid and serious aims though you give your selves the name as the obscure Parents of this in some sense abortive Child of the Lovers of Truth and Peace which bespeaks the Babe both conceived and brought forth under the melevolent Aspects of some froward contentious and yet pretended glorious and Christian design Your Epistle which as the Midwife that brought the Child into the world we find ushers it in with caluminations so foul and of such a sort as if it were intended to scale Rome's Walls and bid Defiance to the Man there that usurps the Keyes of Heaven and Hell And withal that way may be made for its more laudable entrance and progress she no sooner speaks but like Athalia she cryes Treason treason the Lord's Prerogative is invaded when alas she was the Traytor her self and then she marcheth on and proclaims them she is sent to with so much pretended calmness to be like the Man at Rome usurpers of the Keyes of Hell and Death But how much the mark is missed is evident enough for who more free and ready to stop up the way to Hell and open the way to Heaven so far as lies in them by all the abilities they have and endeavours they can use than they whom you brand with the aforesaid Usurpation Though we would not make the road to Heaven as the foolish Woman and clamourous doth the way to her House saying Stolen waters are sweet and bread eaten in secret is pleasant to her guests And though your Babes-Usher hath got the knack on 't to clamour with so much scurrility by such oyly lines perhaps borrowed from some other Pen yet is it an argument of a weak Cause rather than otherwise it being usual when there is no better weapons to make use of such with this gloss The Lords Prerogative is invaded and what wilt thou do to thy great Name and the like when you your selves are the invaders of that Royal Prerogative of the Lord 's Anointed by not suffering his Princely Authority to be obeyed without controule from you and such his leige People to whom his Prerogative and Name is more dear than their lives as sufficient testimony hath been given and further may through his grace should he call for it You study against wayes of obtractation But how easie a matter is it for men to pretend to Conscience in their own Case and with the same Pen bespatter the Consciences of others with foul inormities of meer pretences under that cloak as if they made bates and pretended Conscience but let the sober inspect this new-born Babe and they will see make-bate writ in the face of him though it hath Conscience for its Name and is sirnamed a Lover of Truth and Peace and do but trace it in its proceedings and let but its conception be calculated and they will find it both conceived and brought forth to that end it being furnished with Confidence sufficient to pass it without suspition of being tardy of any such thing as make-bate while it can talk of Peace and Unity among Brethren and pretend to more than ordinary zeal to it and that it may go abroad without jealousie of the contrary all that stands in its way must be rendred as maintainers of Notions catch'd up and charged upon Conscience without regard had to the interest of Religion yea and renting and running away from all that agree not with them when there is nothing less intended by you than to run divisions among us that are united in that thing under debate And for the more effectual accomplishment of this design we must also be rendred as such that take upon them to judge all that come not up to the same dimensions with us not to have God nor to have communion with God when our judgment in that case is Those that transgress and abide not in the Doctrine of Christ have not God as his Church hath not that thereby you or any man is judged by us to have or not to have God And as for you we have before given our Testimony that we can and do love you for the Truths sake you own so far as you have gone or so far as you do own the Truth but we cannot nay we dare not love you with the love of Brethren in the true and right order of the Gospel See Gods Oracle and Christs Doctrine page 94. then have you no cause to render us as judging all but our selves in no sense to have God nor communion with God And if you have better Arguments to prove your in erest in Christ than laying on of Hands we have no cause to grieve at it but to rejoyce and can with all our hearts wish you have for laying on of Hands can be none for you and it will be well if it be none against you who have so long opposed it with so much bitterness as you have done and and still do But be we esteemed your Friends or your Enemies for saying you are not a Church rightly Constituted and so have not God as his Church we must still say it until our Judgments and Consciences be otherwise perswaded by his Word and if you will not believe what we say we must leave it to the revelation of the righteous Judgment of the Lord

you without any opposit●●● from you will these things you call condes●●●tions make you a right constituted Chu● that wanted a right constitution before ●●sides these condescentions might be just ● Christian and candid as his was that desired ● come under laying on of hands confessing i● be one of the first Rudiments of Christian mentioned afore 5. For there is cause to suspect that t● condescentions of yours were rather than C●●●stian and candid designs to raze out that ● of the foundation viz. Laying on of han● that is raze out the belief and practice of ● time or divide them about it that are unde● as appears by what some of you have said at so●● certain times viz. That in seven years tim● should not have that esteem of laying on of han● now we have And another at another 〈◊〉 should say That the Churches would stand with ●…rs in their eyes for their acting These condescentions then we say rather tended to the ●…tting laying on of hands and the esteem of 〈◊〉 out of their hearts that have submitted to it ●…t so the practice of it might perish and die in ●…e or if not so in all yet then to cause a ●…ecessity of dividing about it as great Pretenders as you be to Peace and Unity that thereby you might hide your disobedience to Christ ●nd so pass for currant a right-constituted ●hurch 6. What if some of you have desired to come ●…nder laying on of hands If they will make ●…nful conditions and bring them to us with ●…eir desire we then have just cause to keep ●…em from so sacred an Ordinance as laying on ●f hands is until they shall come to the obedience thereof upon Christs terms and conditions denying themselves and their own 7. Our refusing then communion with you ●…ough whether in reality or pretence you have ●…ade such large and loving condescentions as ●ou call them since you still want that loving condescention to Christ in obeying the Voice ●f that great Prophet doth not make us guil●… of Schism much less Schism greatly aggravated Quest 16. Whether there are not many among you that ● all they can to obstruct our reconciliation and ●dermine all our Endeavours after Unity cry●● down and condemning all but themselves lest t● should most of all condemn themselves for mak● unnecessary divisions in the Church of God L●● the Painter in Plutarch that had unskilfully painted a Cock afterwards chased away all Cocks 〈◊〉 Hens lest the imperfection of his Art should ● discovered And whether some among you in 〈◊〉 manner having made this unskilful Separation ● say no worse have not cast away all thoughts 〈◊〉 tenders of accommodation and them that tender ● lest their foul deformity of Church-breaking sho●●● be detected Answer 1. We Will and can without being asham● thereof freely acknowledge That there 〈◊〉 many we hope among us that do the best a●● all they can to obstruct such a Reconciliatio● as you would have and to undermine as yo● call it though we have and will play abov● board and deal plainly all your endeavo●● for Unity upon your terms of Unity Whi● would rather tend to a going back than a going on to perfection and would be rather ● combination against the God of Order an● Truth than a right well-approved Reconciliation and Unity which he will say Amen to 2. And in so doing we cry up truth and not our our selves otherwise then servants to it and lovers of it knowing withal we are but unprofitable servants for when we have done all we have done no more than what is our duty to do nor do we cry down you nor any but as the Word of the Lord doth for your disobedience to Christ we must not say light is darkness and darkness is light wo be to us if we should 3. Neither do we obstruct your endeavours after Reconciliation and Unity from any self-condemnation of making Divisions in the Church knowing the guilt of Church-dividing is not upon us the Word of the Lord and our own Consciences not condemning us but justifying us though you unjustly do that you might cover your selves under the mantle of mens approbation which covering would be too narrow had you by your late endeavours obtained your end for your only way will be to lay your Church-Foundation right submit to that you have long quarrelled about have respect to all the commands of the Lord Jesus so will you approve your selves to God and be united to his People 4. And as for your levity and flash about the Painter and his Cock we never drove you away as being ashamed of any thing we have ●one in separating from you but were alwayes willing to meet the best of you in any place in publick Conference or otherwise by all wayes and means we lawfully might use that our practice may be seen and tryed by the Word and never upon that account chased away your Cock nor no other but have given yours battel again and again nor do we fear to let ours be seen being drawn not by the unskilful Painter in Plutarch but by the Lord Jesus in the Gospel and therefore if we chase you away from us in point of Communion it is lest the deformity of your Fabrick having but a piece or part Foundation should bring us in time to the same deformity and disorder with you Quest 17. Whether to break Communion with or separate from the Communion of a Church of Christ for some single Errour not essential to a Church state be not a wounding to the weak and a hardening to the wicked Whether it doth not keep many out of the Church that would come in and give occasion of going out to many that are in Whether Divisions from a true Church are not an in-let to Atheism and Infidelity and whether all Christians ought not to eschew Divisions as great reproaches to Christian Religion Answer 1. A known Error is not to be suffered not tollerated in the Church of God for by the same rule one may more may till the Church be fuller of stinking weeds than choice flowers and what will the weeds do but eat out the living and thriving virtue of the flowers we would not be so much the Devils friend as to give him leave to plant much less to suffer any thing of his planting to grow in the Lord's garden Errour is of the Father of Lyes 2. Errour in the Church though held but by some if suffered threatens the ruine of the whole body Thou hast them there that hold the Doctrine of Balaam c. Repent or else I will come quickly c. Errour suffered in some Members may defile the body and make it culpable of the sin of Errour and Heresie A little Leaven leaveneth the whole lump What will make the Church of God such a sinful confused unclean heap as the Church of Rome is sooner than such a tolleration 3. Yet such Errours as not eating meats though every creature

of understanding in those that say so For if Christ had a Church before his ascension that wanted any thing essential to its being then it was a Church and no Church at the same time which is absurd to imagine Let what is abovesaid be duly and considerately weighed and there will be no reflection upon Christ nor ignorance in those that say they were onely Discipl●● and not impowered as a Church before Christs Ascension It can reflect no want of care in Christ because they could not be in any other capacity than his Scholars before the Spirit was given them no● were they capable to receive more than what Christ did communicate to them and leave with them until the Spirit was manifested I have many things to say but ye cannot bear them now John 16.12 Then it s no reflection upon Christ for want of care considering the time and the Disciples incapacity to bear them then Nor do we say Christ had a Church before his Ascension if they were a Church that wanted any thing essential to its being in that dispensation therefore you may keep your absurdity till you have more occasion Quest 6. We demand whether those qualifications that give us a Right to Baptism do not give us a Right to the Lords Table Answer 1. Those qualifications that give you a right to Baptism do not give you a right to the Lords Table 2. For confession of sins and profession of Faith in Christ for the pardon of them are qualifications that gives ●●●ht to Baptism but they do not give the person so confessing and professing a right to the Lords Table except he be first baptised by your Principles and Practice if we be not deceived by you Quest 7. We demand whether it be not sinful to make more conditions of Communion than ever God made And whether the imposing of any thing though true as the conditions of Church-membership and Communion which God hath not made a Condition be not to keep those out of the Church that Christ would have in Answer 1. We grant it is sinful to make more Conditions of Communion than ever God made 2. And to impose any thing though true as ●he Condition of Church-Membership and Communion which God hath not made a Con●ition is to keep those out of the Church that Christ would have in Quest 8. If Christ hath required no other conditions of Church-Communion than Confession of Sin Faith Baptism and a holy Life whether you can by an Rule deny Communion to any that are so qualified If so shew that Rule Answer 1. Though it be true that Confession of sin Faith Baptism and an holy Life be condition● of Communion yet are there more condition● required by Christ of Church-Communion that those for the twelve Disciples Paul foun● at Ephesus had confessed their sin professed their faith and were baptised yea and wer● men of holy Lives and yet they wanted som● conditions of Church-Communion 2. For these Disciples were ignorant of the Doctrine of Baptisms Heb. 6.2 knew no more than the Baptism of John for they had not heard whether there were a holy Ghost or no● Act. 19. 3. They were not under laying on of hand● which God had appointed as the means h●● which the holy Ghost was given and received both which viz. the Doctrine of Baptisms an● laying on of hands are Principles of the Doctrine of Christ Heb. 6.2 And therefore ● truly conditions of Church-Communion ● Water-Baptism for it is by one Spirit we a● all baptised into one Body 1 Cor. 12.13 4. Then not to hear whether there were holy Ghost or no as these Disciples did not ●less defect in them than for you to hear and read there is a holy Ghost promised to as many as obey Christ and you not believe the Baptism thereof but oppose and reject the means by which the Baptism of the Spirit is obtained and by which we all are baptised into one Body is a far greater defect and want of the conditions Christ requires of Church-Communion in you than was in them 5. Then can we deny Communion with you because Christ requires more conditions of Church-Communion than you yet have for which we have these Rules 2 Thess 3.6 1 Tim. 3.4 5. Cum multis aliis Quest 9. Whether the Baptised Congregations that are not under laying on of hands do not make those qualifications above mentioned absolutely necessary to Church-communion and Church-membership And if so why should you refuse Communion with them Answer 1. You may well make a question of it whether you do make those qualifications you mention before absolutely necessary to Church-communion and Church-membership when in your sixth Question you demand Whether those qualifications that give you a Right to Baptism do not give you a Right to the Lords Table Which ●mporteth That those which have a Right to Baptism by virtue of some qualifications have a right to the Lords Table by virtue of the same qualifications at the same time and if they that have a right to Baptism have at the same time a right to the Lords Table they may by right have Church-communion though they be not baptized 2. Therefore we must Answer you That we cannot tell or we do not know whether you do make those qualifications you mention absolutely necessary to Church-communion and Church-membership because in your sixth Question you more than seem to leave out Baptism as a qualification which you put in elsewhere as one 3. But if you do make all those qualifications you mention absolute necessary to Church-communion and Church-membership you have been already told why we refused Communion with you it will be too much in this place to say it again Quest 10. Whether you have not at some turns both by practice and professed agreements owned those for Churches and Church Members that are baptized Believers as aforesaid and if so by what rule can you refuse to have Communion with them Answer 1. It is not without cause to believe that is too true that some have been daubing with untempered morter Ezek. 13.10 11 12 13 14. to heal the hurt slightly saying Peace peace when there was no peace Jer. 6.14 having both by practice and professed agreements owned you for Churches rightly constituted 2. It were well if those that have so practised and agreed would remember from whence they are fallen and repent and do their first works before it be too late and their Candlestick be removed out of its place Rev. 2.5 3. And they their giving so much advantage to you who oppose some part of the mind of Christ which they believe and practise which is now taken up by you and used as weapons against the truth they practise doth cry aloud upon them to repent and smite upon the thigh saying What have we done 4. For if such practice and professed agreement be according to the will of God wherein they have owned you Churches and Church Members rightly constituted Communion

those parts of the Doctrine of Christ that belong'd to perfection and their further growing up in him but not the Foundation or beginning part of Christians Nor though they were dull of hearing and could not receive those things hard to be uttered relating to the Priestly Office of Christ yet were they not Denyers Opposers and Disputers against it as you have been against laying on of hands more than twenty years 4. The Churches in Asia were true constituted Churches and yet they transgressed and did not abide in all Christs Doctrine for which cause though the Spirit commends them in some things they would not have God long as his Church except they repented of those Transgressions I will remove thy Candlestick out of its place except thou repent Rev. 2.5 By which it may plainly be perceived that their not abiding in the Doctrine of Christ would unchurch them that were true constituted Churches without Repentance and doing their first works though we will not say that they were ipso facto declared no Churches of Christ and such as have no communion with God as his Church Though we dare say that you whose Church-constitution was never right have not God as his Church and we dare say That the Churches in Asia and the Church of Corinth for suffering the incestuous person and for saying some of them the Resurrection was past c. after all lawful endeavours made and means used to purge them from those evils had they not repented but still persisted in their Sin and Impenitency they would soon find they should cease to be a Church in God and incommunicable for their not abiding in the Doctrine of Christ and Oracles of God And thus much we dar● say of them or of any that fail like them Tha● then as afore they are no Churches have no● communion with God as his Church becaus● they abide not in all his Doctrine 5. Your Argument then is not of such forc● to turn the edge of ours upon us as you think ● for we answer it by distinction thus If in you● minor Proposition by failing and coming sho●● of many things Christ taught them you mea● fundamental things we deny your minor O● if you mean a failing and coming short of man ● things Christ taught as in the Churches of Asia and the Church of Corinth joyned with impenitency all lawful means being used to purg● them we then likewise deny your minor B●● if you do not mean Fundamentals nor sins joyned with Impenitency as is aforesaid then ● say God owns such for Churches and w● should sin if we did not though they fail an● come short of perfection in many things B● then it follows not that God owns or that 〈◊〉 ought to own such for Churches that fail an● come short in Fundamentals or the first Rud●ments of Christianity as you do Quest 20. Whether it be not an abuse of that Text 2 Joh● to infer from the Doctrine of Christ there menti●●ed That there can be no Churches nor Churc● Members where every thing that Christ taught is ●●t observed and continued in When by Doctrine ●ere a man of a short sight may perceive is meant ●●e confessing that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh ● appears vers 7. which whosoever abideth not in ●ut shall deny hath not God and if this be not the ●ense but the other viz. That he that continues ●ot in all Christs sayings hath not God and is no Member of Christ then either your selves are no Church or else you are all perfect and guilty of no 〈◊〉 because all sin is a transgressing Christs Doctrine ●●d he that saith he hath no sin is a Lyar and the ●ruth is not in him 1 John 1.10 Answer 1. Who did you ever know infer from ● Joh. 9. That there can be no Churches nor Church-members where every thing Christ ●●ught is not observed and continued in 'T is ●rue we say that every Principle of the Do●trine of Christ which he taught as the first Ru●iments of Christianity must be observed and ●ontinued in or else there can be no Church ●or Church-Members rightly constituted And ● observed believed and practised and not ●ontinued in they that now are a Church right ●n constitution may as afore is said cease to ●e a Church for their transgressing and not a●iding in the Doctrine of Christ 2 John 9. 2. But you say By Doctrine in that place is ●eant as a man of a short sight may perceive the confessing that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh ● appears vers 7. Suppose this should be t● meaning we demand whether every one th● verbally so confesseth and doth not verbally d●ny Christ to be come in the Flesh doth answ●● the mind of the Spirit in that Text and ha● both the Father and the Son so long as he ab●deth by such a Confession we think you wi●● not so say for if you should then must yo● own Rome to be a Church of Christ Becaus● they stoutly confess with their mouths and ●bide by it that Christ is come in the flesh ye● and will burn them that shall deny it now ● this be the meaning of the Text then hath Rom● both the Father and the Son and doth not transgress but continue in the Doctrine of Chris● and thousands more besides who will thus confess Christ to be come in the flesh but know yo● not that in works they deny him If then ● man short-sighted may see that by Doctrine ● meant a confessing of Christ to be come in th● flesh that confession must be more than verb●● as a man very short-sighted may perceive an● that by confessing Christ is to own him to be ● Prince and a Saviour to believe obey and t● do what he hath taught and to continue in hi● Doctrine So then though it may be as yo● say yet is it not to be thought that onely th● single and alone confessing of Christ to be com● in the flesh is there meant by Doctrine ● being so comprehensive a word that it contains in it no less if not more than the foundation-●●rt mentioned Heb. 6. And therefore they that transgress and abide not in that fundamental part viz. Repentance Faith the Doctrine of Baptisms Laying on of Hands the Resurrection from the Dead and eternal Judgment have not God as his Church but he that continues in the Doctrine of Christ hath both the Father and the Son Then is it no abuse of the Text to say as the Text saith But you rather abuse us to say that we infer that there can be no Churches nor Church-Members that continue not in every thing that Christ taught and that they have not God nor are no Members of Christ But we say They cannot be Churches rightly constituted that abide not in Christs Doctrine for they have not God and so saith the Text. And yet there may be Churches truly stated that are not perfect and that will not say they have no sin