Attersol not for promiscuous baptising 161. 27 Balmford Mr. Balmford defended 93. 34 Baptising Examples against promiscuous Baptising 32. 1 Arguments for promiscuous Baptising answered 118. 31 Scriptures for promiscuous Baptising answered 121. 31 The question cōcerning promiscuous Baptising stated 132. 5 Things premised about promiscuous Baptising 132. 22 Fower grounds against promiscuous Baptising 133. 25 The opinion of learned Writers concerning promiscuous Baptising 134. 1 The ends and uses of baptisme against promiscuous Baptising 140. 21. Promiscuous Baptising offensive 143. 19. Promiscuous Baptising amoung the Reformed a building of things destroyed 145. 21 Promiscuous Baptising against Godly custome 153. 9 Promiscuous Baptising not maintayned by them that seeme to favour it 156. 23 Pretences for promiscuous Baptising answered 163. 8 Promiscuous Baptising not an order of the Dutch Churches but a disorder crept in 175. 15 Confessions and Cannons of the Dutch Churches against promiscuous Baptising 175. 22 Custome about baptising such as that it may justly be called promiscuous Baptising 300. 34 Baptisme Baptisme is an ordinance belonging to the Church 312. 1 Basil Basil for peace sake remooves his dwelling 16. 31 Beza Beza not for promiscuous baptising 158. 19 Beza his opiniō of Synods 228. 11 Beza his carriage when Erastus his booke was published after the authors death 323. 27 Brownists Nearnesse to or distāce from the Brownists but a false rule to trie truth or errour by 10. 2 Brownists errours 280. 35 Burthen What a Burthen is 52. 36 The Burthen of the Complaynants being deprived of those whom they desired grievous by the concurrence of many respects 53. 6 Certainty Humaine Certainty stādeth with a contingency of future events 28. 10. Choosing Power of Choosing Ministers in the whole church 36. 24 the termes explicated 36. 30 the position layd downe as the Affrican Synod Professours of Leyden hold it 37. 8 Proofe of the position reduced to 3 heads 37. 23 Argumēt from the Scriptures 37. 25. Argument from consent of times 40 6. Argument from the evidence of reason 43. 10 Power of Choosing the Church cannot give from her 46. 12 Choyce In Choyce of Ministers there is in cases a necessary use of the combination of Churches 230. 33. Church In what sense Church is taken 36. 33. Church is deprived of her power two wayes 47. 35 Power to governe granted to the Church by witnesses in all ages 237. 21 The order of the Church of Franckford for the power of the Church 243. 13 What authority the Church hath about lawes 258. 10 Classis What the Classis requireth of Ministers which are to be ordained 68. 36 Two things blame worthie in the Classis 9. 12 The Classis repaired unto about the Replyers settling without his consent approbation 185. 34. The proceeding of the Classis after the Replyer had refused his call 193. 1 The Classis assume in some particulars more power then the the Prelates 223. 25 What power is due to Classis over particular Churches by vertue of combination 227. 19 The object of Classicall combinations of Churches 228. 7 Classis power borrowed derived from particular Churches 229. 3. Classis power not a prerogative of jurisdiction but of estimation 229. 27 Classis power not to deprive particular Churches of their power but to strengthen them in the exercise thereof 230. 10 Wherein the Classis power is undue and usurped 231. 26 The undue power of the Classis in making lawes 252. 26 Concerning resting in the determinations of the Classis 271. 14 Classis require more power then the Apostles when they required the Replyer to baptise those which were not members of the Church 287. 10 The Church of Antioch warranteth not the Classis 290. 32 Collection Concerning a Collection which the Answerer calls a recōpense of the Replyers labours 284. 2 Combination What kind of Combinatiō is lawfull among Churches 226. 11 The reasons of the lawfullnesse of Combinations 227. 3 Combinations of Churches in some cases expedient and necessary 230. 30 The Answerers Comforts are the Replyers also 34. 26 Complaynants Complaynants complaints no evill weedes 17. 31 Complaynants vindicated and the Answerer refuted 18. 6 Complaynants defended about their not advising with the Replyer 29. 1 Complaynants cleared of oppositiō unto the worthie servants of God 67. 24 Complaynants vindicated from slaunder in 8 particulars where in charged by the Answerer 88. 28. Complaynants assertions found true notwithstanding the answeres of the Answerer 209. 9 213. 26. Complaint What a Complaint is 3. 24 Complaints not unjust in themselves 3. 28 Fower things required unto an unjust Complaint 3. 29 Complaints of weake ones not to be sleighted 5. 23 Complaints of the Complaynāts unjustly called unjust 4. 10 Conference Conference betweene the Answerer and the Replyer defectively reported 117. 3 Confession Threefold Confession with the observations upon it in the protestation reviewed 18. 17 Contention Contention twofold good and bad 17. 36 Crispe Ia. Crispe vindicated from preaching wherewith the Ansvverer chargeth him 285. 17 Customes Of Customes the evillnesse of them and unlawfullnesse of building any practise upon them 30. 32 Good Customes should not lightly be broken 151. 25 Good Customes of a divers nature 152. 1 Denomination Denomination may follow the better part not the greater 21. 24 Difference Differences in opinion must in cases be borne with 58. 11 In cases of Difference there is necessary use of combination of Churches 231. 16 Elders Vsefullnesse and honnour of Elders 207. 31 Elders cleared from the charge of the Answerer about depriving the Church of her right 49. 15. Elders cleared from partiality 210. 34. Errour Errour ariseth frō the perversenesse of passions 63. 11 Errour in men one cause of harsh censuring of others 63. 29 Examples Examples in disquisition of truth not to be rested on 32. 8 Excommunication In Excommunication there may be good use of the combination of Churches 231. 8. Father What a Fathers duety is towards his children 20. 7 Fenner Mr. Fenners judgment about the power by which the Church should be governed 238. 25 against the Answerer 239. 29 Fleeing Fleeing justified by examples 104. 2. Fleeing not fearing them that can kill and not fainting may stand together 104. 23 Fleeing is sometimes a confessing to the truth 105. 14 Fleeing or a voluntary banishment is in some cases worse then some imprisonment 105. 13 Forbes Mr. Forbes defended 85. 32 commended 87. 30 Generall Generall good to be preferred 12. 32. Hooker Mr. Hooker defended 68. 25 Mr. Hooker not the cause of disturbance but the Answerer 116. 19. Mr. Hooker cleared frō Scisme 246. 1. Iacob Mr. Iacobs judgment about Classis and Synods for substance the same with Beza and Calvin 236. 4. Intentions It is lawfull to judge of mens Intentions 234. 1 Law Three things required to the making of a Law 256. 14 Lawes and orders differ 257. 30 Learned Learned mens judgements not sufficient to justify any thing or condemne it unlesse their grounds be found sufficiēt
more easily received and firmely beleived because he is acquainted fully with all their wayes being one of them and ordinarily in counsail with them 3. But if it be true that the Classis hath such a practise Cyp. Epist l. 1. Epi. 8. Adulterum est impium est sacrilegum est quicquid humano furore instituitur ut dispositio divina violetur Ans 2. Reply and that the government hath established such an order which he will never be able to prove yet that will not free him from guilt seeing by his owne confession such a Custom or Canon is contrary to Christ his ordinance which I will expresse in Cyprians words It is adulterous it is wicked it is Sacrilegious what soever by humaine fury is instituted to the violation of a Divine ordinance His second answer or evasion rather followeth Secondly By involving the Elders with him in the same guilt and blame and retorting an accusation of partiality in that they lay the fault upon him only But who seeth not the insufficiency of this defense that either considereth the reply to the former answer or knoweth his power in the Consistory But what before was sayd by me in defense of the Classis may be a sufficient Apology also for the Elders and Deacons Thirdly By questioning the reason of their not complaining after this manner hitherto But who seeth not Ans 3. Reply that this is a mere evasion For what though they exhibited not a bill of greivances til now It may be they wayted in hope of reformation or it may be these last passages haue ripened the sore and filled up the measure and caused it to run over What consequent is there in these Arguments They complained not thus before therefore they were not injured The sore did not runne before therefore it was not an ulcer This measure did not runne over before therefore it was empty Nor is there more weight in his conclusion of that 3 answer when he appealeth to their consciences whether now also they would not haue kept silence if they could haue brought in Mr. D. even according to this corrupt order used by us as they complaine of it 1. Let the Reader judge whether any others are mentioned in the complaint either Elders Reply Classis or government but only the Answerer Why then doeth he speake in the plurall number saying this corrupt order used by us 2. Is there not a manifest contradiction in this part of the answer For if they could have brought in Mr. D. by their free choyse which himselfe acknowledgeth to be the ordinance of Christ how could they then have brought him in according to this corrupt order whereof they complaine so that why should they not keep silence if the cause of complaint had bene removed as in this case it had bene Answ 4 Let his fourth answer be considered wherein he granteth that the free consent of the people is required unto the lawfull calling of a Minister and that by vertue of those texts Act. 6.3 and 14.23 Reply 1 First If upon that ground this power of the people be established then 1 It is their duety to plead for and to stand fast in their liberty in this particular and that not as a matter arbitrary but necessary seing it is Christ his ordinance 2 That person sinneth against God and the Church who any way depriveth them of it and is bound to give satisfaction if but any one member much more if 22 considerable members complaine of it And this injury is the greater because it reflecteth 1 not upon a singular person but upon a Society 2 not in civill but spirituall immunityes and priviledges 3 Such as are not devolved upon them by the favour of earthly princes but purchased for them by the blood of Christ The aequity of this complaint may be proved out of the Answerers concession thus They who without just and sufficient warrant hinder that the Church cannot injoy these Ministers whom they with one consent desire doe deprive the Church of that liberty and power which Christ hath given it in the free choyse of their Pastor But the person complained of by these 22 subscribers doeth without just and sufficient cause hinder the Church from injoying those whom they with one consent desired Therefore the person complained of doth deprive the Church of that liberty and power which Christ hath given it in the free choyse of their Pastor The Proposition himselfe granteth to be true as hath bene noated The assumption they prove in the following Section by instances as we shall see in due time The Answerer hath sayd nothing hitherto that may serve to weaken the trueth of it In the words following also he rather evadeth it then maketh a direct answer And his evasions are by way of diversion For. 1. He diverteth his Reader from the particular subject of the complaint Pag. 19. Ans 4. Reply telling him of the order of these Churches about this matter whereas for ought I have heard from themselves at any time or now have read in their wrightings that good correspondency with the Christian Magistrate and foreknowledge or advise of the Classis which the Synods of these Churches describe as the order to be observed in the calling of Ministers are not contrary to that liberty and power in the free choyse of their Pastor which they clayme and the Answerer acknowledgeth to be due to the Church by vertue of Christs ordinance But I suppose it will be granted on all sides that the Synods doe not acknowledge any power to be due to the Magistrates or Classis to deprive the Church of any power which Christ hath givē it which is the greivance they now complained of and wherein the Answerer is accused not for observing the order of the Synods but for doing contrary to the intent of the Synods in their orders 2. He diverteth his reader from the question in hand Pag. 20. Ans 5. Reply by propounding another question to be examined which he pretendeth that some object out of Acts 6.3 viz. whether the people ought not to goe before in seeking out officers for themselves That this is a mere diversion will appeare to the indifferent Reader if he examine their wrighting in which he shall not find any word tending that way but rather they complaine that the Elders are too much neglected by the Answerer as will appeare in its place So that the 20. p. is a laborious proving of that which is not in question 3. The pretended absurdityes in his sixth answer Pag. 21. Ans 6. Reply Pag. 21. Ans 7. Reply are to the same purpose with his fifth Answer and serve only to countenance a girde at some neighbour Minister Cui-bono he best knoweth His seventh answer is no more to the purpose then the fifth and sixth For what if these Complainants should not agree one with another touching the due order of Elections and touching the ground thereof from those
places Acts 6. and 14 which if he hath diverse times taught them as he sayth the necessity of the free consent of the people unto the lawfull calling of a Minister out of those texts may be questionable Yet will it thence follow that therefore they may be deprived of men whom they have chosen or desire to choose without just and sufficient cause J suppose not Pag. 22. Ans 8. Reply His eighth and last answer is already examined and replyed upon and declared to be contradictory to himselfe in my reply to the third answer concerning their supposed silence if they could have brought me in according to this order thither I referr the Reader So much shall serve for the fourth Section The answer to the fifth Section examined IN this Section they prove the justnes of their former complaint by instances of men desired by the Church but by him rejected and opposed whereunto he answereth This complaint is confirmed and aggravated by Mr. D. c. Ans Reply If this complaint be just it makes good the title which these complainants give themselves the burthened members and well might I say that they are over burthened with the losse of so many men so much desired by the Church The Answerer himselfe sayth If the complaints be just then is the title just being framed according to the contents and speciall subject of the booke And a litle after If this Church be deprived of that liberty and power which Christ hath given it c. then is there cause to complaine of the miserable slavery and bondage of this Church These be his owne words What have the complainants or I sayd more then this That is a burthen which causeth wearines to him that beareth it Wearines ariseth from the disproportion betweene the faculty and the object hence is paine in the subject and thence are complaints which are more greivous as the burthen is more painfull And as corporall burthens are made intolerable to the body by addition of weight so are inward burthens to the mind by accession of aggravating considerations And in this case the concurrence of many respects maketh the burthen they complaine of exceeding greivous as their love to God to the Church to our Nation to their opposed brethen and to themselves First Their love to God stirreth up indignation in them when they see his servants injuryed and according to the height of their esteeme of the men is the deepenes of their sense of their injuryes Their injury they expresse to be his rejecting and opposing them their owne esteeme of the men they declare in stiling them the most worthy servants of God Such superlative and exuperant titles the persons to whom they are applyed dare not assume to themselves acknowledging themselves to be unproffitable servants and not worthy of that high honour to be called the servants of such a God Yet the persons who thus describe them shew a great esteeme of them To see such disgracefully used not by Ammonites as Davids servants were 2. Sam. 10.2.4.5 thorough causeles jealousyes but by Israelites and to be smitten by their fellow servants to the hinderance of the Lords worke and the furtherance of Sathans projects is very greivous Secondly Their love to the Church stirreth up Zeale in them to promove the good thereof by all possible indeavours both for their brethren and companions sake Psal 122. and because of the house of the Lord our God Whence their greife is increased if in deavours prove successes especially when they are denyed those men whom God seemeth to cast upon them and the Church unanimously desireth to the hinderance of the Churches peace and aedification and when that is done not against some one but against many nor once only but often Thirdly Their love to their Nation and Country stirreth up aemulation causeth much greife discontentment in them at any thing that may reflect reproach or disgrace upon the same as Contentions amongst them which by these actions are made unavoydable will doe especially in such a place as Amsterdam where so many nations living in Concord amongst themselves and with others are observers and admirers at the unnaturalnes of some of ours to their owne countrimen Fourthly Their love to their rejected and opposed brethren stirreth up compassion in them For who can looke upon a silly sheepe scratched in a hedge of thornes whither it fled for shelter without pitty And if Iobs complaint is able to affect any tender spirit when he sayth To him ehat is afflicted pitty should be shewed from his brethren Iob. 6.14.15 but my brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brooke which is then emptyest when the season is hottest and the wearied travayler is in greatest thirst much more will this stirr up Sympathy in a mercifull heart to see brethren not only like waters that fayle but as a violent streame that threatens to overflow and drowne those that should be refreshed to reject and oppose those that should be received cherished Fifthly Their love to them selves and to those that depend upon them stirreth up great desire in them to injoy those meanes which they haue found blessed to them to some of them for their effectuall calling to the obedience of Fayth to others of them for their buylding up and strengthning in their most holy Fayth Hence their greife is increased When they see themselves deprived of that which they haue found so good proffitable As for his girding Epithites in the next words against my person and theire expression I passe it by pittying his distemper Whereas he sayth that in the reproofe of these Complainants Mr. D. may in part read his owne it concerneth me the more strictly and particularly to examine the following passages that I may see how justly he reproveth me being prepared in some good measure I hope to beare patiently and receive thanckfully a just reproofe and to hold forth the truth myne owne innocency against unjust reproaches not respecting any mans person in discharge of my bounden duety We will therefore exactly observe his method and examine his pretended answer 1 To generall assertions 2 To the particular instances severally considered and apart 1. His pretended answer to that which is objected concerning these instances joyntly considered and in generall The thing objected or complained of is that the Church is by the Answerer deprived of her due liberty and power in the free choyse of a Pastor whilest men desired by the Church generally are by him rejected and opposed without sufficient cause This we prove say they by his rejecting and opposing the most worthy servants of God who came out of England for the same cause he did whom the Church with one consent desired as Mr. H. and Mr. D. of later times as also Mr. Pa Dr. A. Mr. F. Mr. P. c. Now let us see what he answereth Ans 1 generally concerning them all joyntly considered And thereunto he seemeth to
answer 7 things 1. That all left not their Country for the same cause 2. That the Church did not desire every one of those 3. That he may lawfully oppose some of these when each of themselves were opposite one to another 4. That in the same eminent persons there may be diverse eminent offences and errours which may be just cause of opposing them and refusing them as unfitt Ministers for some particular Congregations 5. That his opposing of the Election of some of these persons is not a depriving the Church of her power 6. That diverse of these Complainants haue opposed the calling of sundry worthy servants of God 7. That those which were refused were not put back by his authority but either by the Magistrates Classis or Consistory or by their owne voluntary desistance In like manner my reply Reply to these passages shall be 1 more generall to the whole discourse of this Section 2 more especiall to the severall parts First In generall 1. Generally It is to be noated that all his answers tend to the disparagment of the persons whom the Complainants doe so highly reverence To let passe the inhumanity of reproaching the absent and the dead and the impiety of his encouraging the enimyes of God to blaspheme who may easily thinck that they haue just cause to revile and speake evill of these men when they shall see that this Answerer spareth them not and that in print And that I may retort his owne words but more fitly What wonder if they follow when they are so lead forth and by such a grave leader May it please the reader to consider the imprudence of this course Socra 7.2 Socrates reporteth of Atticus Bishop of Constantinople that he was a pious and prudent man and how wonderfully sayth he did he promove the good of the Church by his prudent administration would you know wherein He reconciled those that were at variance about the injury done to Chrysostom to the rest of the Church How was that effected By a course quite contrary to that which this Answerer taketh Not by disparadging Chrysostom as unfitt for the Congregation but by causing the name of Chrysostom to be mentioned in publick with other Bishops Idem cap. 25. I suppose in thancksgiving which plot Proclus one of his successours followed and perfected to the full taking away of that Schysme Idem ibid Cap. 44. For he perswaded the Emperour to translate the body of Chrysostom that had bene buryed else where to Constantinople and to be buryed with much honour and pompe which being done gaue such content to his freinds that their discontent being healed thereby they returned to the Communion of the Church So true is that proverbe Pro. 24.3 Through wisdom is an house and a Church also buylded and by understanding it is established But of contrary causes what can be expected but contrary effects 2. Particularly Secondly more particularly and to the severall particulars I reply thus 1. To the first That we all came out of England for one cause the Answerer acknowledgeth when the sayth wee all agree in the dislike of some coruptions against which we haue testifyed For 1. For that cause we could not injoy our publick Ministry in England 2. Being denyed that we thought it our duety to be of what publick use we might for the service of the Church in any other Country where God should oppn a dore unto us and rather to our Countrimen then others What other particular reason any might haue besids it might concurr as a concausa with others but that still remaineth the cause which was one and the same to us all 2. To the second It is very true and may easily be proved 1. that when an overture hath bene made for any of these men whilest there was hope none opposed their Election but so many as were put upon it expressed their desire of them 2. After the difference betweene this Answerer and any of those men in in some opinion was knowne I appeale to the Church whether they desired not rather that the Answerer would compose such differences betweene him and them by freindly accommodation or passe it by altogether that they might injoy these men then presse things so extreamely to the depriving the Church of them I am confident that the greatest and best part of the Church would answer Yea And I thinck the greatest and best part may well be called the Church and such a declaration of their affection may be judged a sufficient proofe of their desire 3. To the third It is to be observed that he doeth not deny that he opposed some of these men only he knoweth no reason why it should be wondred at First For my part I thinck no man will wonder at it if by reading his answer as he calleth it he have but some such insight into his disposition as Pythagoras is sayd to haue into the stature and strength of Hercules his body by the measure of his foote Secondly Suppose those men are in some few opinions opposite each to other Will that justify his opposing and rejecting them Let him draw his argument into forme of a Syllogisme and it will prove a mere Sophisme and to labour of an aequivocation in the word opposite oppose which in the Antecedent noateth difference in judgement only which may stand with personall concord in the consequent it signifyeth personall opposition and so there be 4 termes in it Thirdly His wholl argument is grounded upon a false supposition For he supposeth that opposition against the person must necessarily or may warrantably follow all difference in judgement The contrary whereof is most true Synodal Dordrecht Rem Sent suae declarat P. 5. When the Arminians odiously exaggerated and objected against the Contra-Remonstrants their different opinions about the object of Praedestination Dr. Twisse learnedly and judiciously wipeth of this aspersion and therein answereth the ground of this Argument by shewing the personall agreement and love betweene those men that so differed and instanceth in Calvin Beza Iunius and Piscator Vindiciae gratiae Digr 1. Sect. 4. each of which had his severall tenet differing from the other and Piscator seemed to differ from them all and yet his high esteeme of them all is manifest 1 of Iunius in his Scholia upon the old testament 2 of Beza in his Scholia upon the New testament 3 of Calvin in his aphorismes gathered out of Calvins institutions 2. in the sweet harmony consent of the Cōtra-Remonstrants in opposing the errours of the Remonstrants and Pelagians which appeared in the determination of the Synod at Dort The same thing is verifyed in those men mentioned in this Section Fourthly The premises being considered it is to be wondred at that he opposeth these men rejecteth them upon this pretence Seing 1. these men in unfeigned brotherly love tender the esteeme one of another and would account it their happines that
a rich Diamond suspected of bastardy should be brought to the touchstone and admitted to a tryall so let trueth being suspected be examined and not condemned upon mere surmises Ans To the fifth that his refusing to give his voyce for the calling of some of these persons is not a depriving the Church of her power c. Reply First This answer is but a mere diversion of the Reader from the true question betweene the Answerer and the Complainants They complaine of him for rejecting and opposing those men whom with one consent the Church desired not of not giving his voyce for their calling nor of his declaring what he judgeth best for the Church nor of his bringing the matter to the Classis being simply considered but of his rejecting these men and opposing them so farr as to deprive the Church of them To this the Answerer answereth just nothing in his owne defense and to convince the Complainants of untrueth Secondly that which he acknowledgeth himselfe to haue done leaveth him under the guilt of that sinne which they charge upon him For 1 his opposing and rejecting of these men whom the Church desired was unjust seing they held no opinions which by warrant of the Scripture make them uncapable of being called to his Church 2. His manner of proceeding was disorderly in carrying the matter to the Classis before he had declared to the Church the aequity of his refusing these men by the Scriptures 3. Is a mere pretence that things were unjustly carryed and swayed against him in the Church or Consistory a sufficient ground of an appeale to the Classis as to an higher lawfull judicatory that so he may sway them according to his owne will without a rule or to other mens customs without a word If this be not to deprive the Church of their liberty and power in the free choyse of their Pastor let the Reader judge The wholl shall be resolved into a Syllogisme He that without just and sufficient cause opposed and hindered the calling of these persons instanced whom the Church desired sinned in so doing But the Answerer without just and sufficient cause opposed and hindered the calling of those persons whom the Church desired Therefore in so opposing he sinned Which proposition will he deny The first He cannot P. 22 Ans 8. Himselfe hath acknowledged it to be a sinne yea an heynous crime no lesse then Sacriledge Will he deny the second proposition or the Assumption He cannot For did not the Church desire these men It hath bene proved in Reply to his second answer in this Section If he say not all of them let him name which of them they did not desire which I belieue he cannot doe But if he could it will not helpe him For if it be true of 2 or of any one he is guilty of sinne by refusing them in the case propounded Will he deny that he opposed and hindred the calling of them Himselfe acknowledgeth it in the 3 and 4 answer of this Section and more at large expressely in the 6 answer in the reply whereunto the Reader shall find also that it was done without just and sufficient cause But that he may be more fully convinced of sinne herein thus I argue He that doth an injury sinneth But the Answerer in thus opposing these men doeth an injury Therefore the Answerer in so doing sinneth The Major or first proposition is cleare of it selfe Injuria est violatio juris 1. Ioh. 3.4 for every injury is a transgession of the Law The Assumption or second proposition is that the Answerer in thus opposing these men doeth an injury This I will prove by shewing that so to doe is against both the Law of nature and the positiue Law First It is against the law of Nature which consisteth of practicall principles which men know they ought to doe or to avoyd by the light of nature Amongst which this is one Whatsoever you would Mat. 7.12 Luke 6.31 that men should doe unto you doe ye even so to them Now I demand would the Answerer be upbrayded with errours and traduced as erronious before strangers before a publick Congregation before a Classis of Reverend Ministers yea before the wholl world in print and that by a brother famous for learning and ministeriall abilityes and that without proofe Would he thinck himselfe aequally dealt withall if another should oppose and reject him as unfit for a place whereunto he is called by the Church without sufficient cause If not let him reflect upon his owne actions and consider whether he be not guilty of an injury Lact in Epist C. 3. which an heathen man such as Alexander Severus would not willingly be guylty of Secondly the positiue Law or the law of God revealed in Scriptures is violated by it many wayes For it is a threefold injury viz against the men against the Church and against the Classis 1. It is an injury to the men whom he rejected whom he traduced to the Church and to the Classis and now in print as unfit for that place whereby he is guilty of detraction and slander which injury will appeare to be the greater if we consider 1 the qualityes and condition of the men whose names are mentioned 2. his manner of doing it viz not rashly but upon deliberation not sparingly but with odious intimations of eminent offences and errours not secretly but in publick and in print not truely but untruely and slanderously 3. the dangerous consequences and events of it For 1. the men thus reproached are exposed to the censure of all men 2. their enimyes have some pretence whereupon to justify their unjust opposing them and so are hardened in sinne 3. a blow and wound is given to the authority of their Ministry in the hearts of so many as ascribe any thing to his testimony against such men which may endanger the soules of many 2. It is an injury to the Church yea a threefold â—njury For 1 It is a deluding of them by pretending that he had just cause of opposing and rejecting those men when he had not 2. It is a defrauding of them of that power and liberty which Christ hath given them as himselfe confesseth in the free choyse of their Pastor under pretence of seeking the advise of the Classis himselfe calleth this sinne Sacriledge 3. It is a slander of them to say that matters are unjustly swayed against him in the Church or Consistory when they desire only such men as these are against whom himselfe hath alleadged no objection of weight sufficient to keepe them out Thirdly It is an injury to the Classis yea a threefold injury also 1. It is a disturbing them and distracting them from better imployments to attend needles quarells 2. It is a misinforming them both concerning these Ministers and his Church and Consistory whereby through too much credulity they are unjustly praejudiced against the innocent 3. It is a misingaging
November 1633. New stile We now proceed to the third worthy Mr. Forbes and to examine what he sayth concerning him Two reasons are pretended by the Answerer against Mr Forbes Ans 5 A defence of Mr. Forbes for the justifying of his refusing him to be his Colleague 1. His differing from him in judgment about the Declinatour or appeale c. 2. His refusall of referring that difference to an hearing of Ministers And thence he proceedeth in the third place to shew the issue of this difference and Mr. F. refusall to referr it which was that not only he but all the Elders with one consent refused to proceed in the calling of him Reply These we will examine severally and breifely To the first Herein may be noated 1. The Answerers unaequall dealing in publishing to the world these particulars against Mr. F. which by his owne confession were at least 24 yeares past Pag. 13. whereas he blameth the Complainants for unseasonable admonition in that they complaine now of matters done above 20 yeares agone about Mr. Parker and Mr. Forbes Was it unseasonable in them and is it not so in him Nor will it helpe that he say they compell him to it seing in the very next instance viz speaking of Mr. Peters he sayth I thinck it needles to give a reason here why I gave not my voyce for him Why might not this answer as well have served in the former instances 2. His policy is to be noated in this passage in his urging that appeale as a meane to keepe out Mr. Forbes well knowing that Mr. Forbes would not now passe from that for procuring a Ministry in Amsterdam for the which he had formerly taken his life in his hand and at that instant indured banishment 3. His disparadging of Mr. Forbes his judgment when he sayth he saught to maintayne his appeale insinuating thereby an indeavour without ability To the second 1. Any man of understanding and charity will conclude that Mr. Forbes his refufall of entring into that dispute with the Answerer is not to be imputed to his feare of the Answerers weapons or strength especially the case being such wherein Mr. F. had bene as well sifted before as the Answerer could sift him but to his great wisdome modesty who hath alwayes manifested that duetifull respect to his Soveraigne never to stand to the defence of any thing displeasing to his Maties but when and where conscience did urge him Neither could he have entred into that debate without some overture of too much forwardnes for and desire of that station from which his spirit was very averse 2. it seemeth not to be without too much selfe-confidence that he undertooke to shew Mr. F. the unlawfullnes of that appeale The wholl councell of Scotland consisting of wise and honourable persons with others as well versed in the lawes and constitutions both Ecclesiasticall and civill of Scotland as the Answerer did they re indeavour to make Mr. F. and his associats to understand the unlawfullnes of it and yet they could not see it but the Answerer will presently shew it them To the third That both he and the Elders with one consent refused to proceed in the calling of Mr. F. upon his refusall to give them satisfaction A refusall supposeth a petition the Answerer should have shewen who was the petitioner 1 was it Mr. Forbes This seemeth to be intimated But they that knew M. Forbes knew him to be a man of no such meane spirit as to petition or seeke to be the Answerers Colleague 2. were the members of the Church the petitioners or motioners for his call and was theyr request frustrated upon this ground Then they re complaint seemeth to be just in that they were deprived of him for such a cause For what is a difference about things done in Scotland and which are proper and peculiar to the cognition of that State to the Church in Amsterdam what Canon of any Nationall Synod what order of any Classis what Custom of any Church in Holland is violated by Mr. Forbes his opinion concerning the Declinatour Which injury both to them and him is the greater seing notwithstanding that he was intertayned setled in an English Church and which is more to this purpose with the English Merchants amongst whom he lived paynfully discharging the office of a Pastor above 20 yeares to the singular content of the Company not without his Maties of Great Brittaine c. King Iames of famous memory his approbation as to the prayse of his Royall clemency appeared in a message sent by him to the Company For him God provided mercyfully But the Church in Amsterdam was by this meane deprived of a man of eminent worth in the injoyment of the fruits of whose learning judgement wisdom amiable spirit and other exellent properties and indowments all places where he hath lived thought themselves happy accounting him a mā richly furnished with all indowments which are requisite not onely for a minister to any Church but also for a publike instrument upon great occasions in the cōmon affaires of many Churches to stand before princes What esteeme he had in Scotland appeared by theyr imploying of him in publick services those of great importance How he was accepted in Swedē whither he travayled after his banishment was manifest besides other instances in the great favour shewed him and honourable proffer made to him by that Mirrour of Princes the last King of Sweden a litle before his death How the Company of Merchants who injoyed him so many yeares affected him is evident in the annuall exhibition which they have conferred upon his widow as a testimony of theyr high esteeme of him theyr deceased Pastor whom it pleased God to call hence where in ter Veer he finished his course was freed from all the troubles of his pilgrimage to injoy that crowne of righteousnes which is layd up for those that have faught a good fight he died on the 5 day of August old stile and was buryed on the 9 day Anno 1634. In the sixt place he dealeth with Mr. Peters or rather declineth the answer of theyr complaint in that particular Had he done so in all the rest he had eased me of all this labour and trouble might have seemed to others more free from blame then he is or now can rationally be judged to be The answer to the sixth Section examined This Section might haue passed without being examined by me P. 33. had not the Answerer in the close of it brought me in as one fighting against him in like manner as the Complainants which is according to an English proverbe to slander him with a matter of trueth But because he sayth the answer before given to the Complainants may also serve for answer to me I am compelled to examine the wholl Section to find out the answer given to me in theyres His wholl answer tendeth to charge them with slander in
service to the Church by preserving the liberty of my person then by lying for ought I know dying in prison and it may be in close prison And in this resolution I was strengthned as by good advise so by inward testimonyes that in this course I should more please God all things being considered then in the other being as it seemed to me guided thereunto by the eye of God whose providence fore shewed me both the danger and the way of escape and by the mouth of God whose word warranted me so to doe and by the hand of God as I have already shewen who strongly inclined my spirit upon the forementioned grounds thereunto So that I could not satisfye my selfe in these respects that if I should doe otherwise I could be free from the guilt of tempting God Thus I have ingenuously and plainely reported the trueth Wherein if the Godly and judicious Reader shall find any thing done by me through humane infirmity that agreeth not with the rule my humble request is that he will in brotherly love helpe me with his light that I may be convinced thereof by the Scripture and he shall find me ready to receive a freindly and just rebuke with due meekenes and thanckfullnes But if otherwise he shall see cause to justifye my way which I thinck if he judge righteously he will let him suffer me to stand right in his good opinion and condemne himselfe in the sight of God if he have misjudged me As for the Answerer Either let him convince me of sinne in the premises or beare the just blame of an unjust reproofe or reproach rather which is so much the greater injury as by being printed it is made more notorious and scandalous After the buisenes of my resignation was in this manner transacted I expected peace but behold new troubles For another pursivant was sent out for me who gave out great threatnings And this inclined me to accept of the motion from these Countryes wherein I thought I might be safe in my person and proffitable in the fruit of Gods blessing upon my labours to that Church for a time and that upon my absence the displeasure conceived against me would be mitigated and my returne after a convenient time would be made more safe 3. For justifying of my inference from his preaching against my resignation to prove that he never desired me for his Colleague I need not use many words For if before I came Quid verba audiam cum facta videam he shewed his aversenes and after J came he really hindred my setling there his actions speake it sufficiently so that my words in this case are needles Sect. 10. examined concerning my knowledge of they re differences before my comming over THat Roman Emperour whom storyes report to have spent so much time in catching flyes might have bene better imployed in such thoughts as Ahasuerosh had when he could not sleepe The text sayth Heb. 6.1 He commanded them to bring the booke of records and they were read before him In like manner the Answerer might well have spared this needles useles labour for inlarging this Section and in steâ—d thereof have condemned himselfe for his unthanckfullnes who not only hath not recompensed the kindnes that hath bene done him but hath rewarded evill for good And that it may more appeare to all men even in the Sections where my confidence in him and kindnes should be mentioned there he laboured most to injure me with casting intimations to rayse suspitions in mens minds causelesly To be breife To what end are all these words Are they to prove that I had seene in wrighting a copy of the differences betweene the Answerer Mr. Hooker J grant it but withall I affirme three things 1. That it was long before I left London and when I was farr from any thoughts of comming into these parts and leaving mine owne land and so had no cause to fixe my mind upon thoughts of those matters 2. That my comming over was but for 3 or 4 moneths He that brought me over those that wrote for me the freinds I left behind all know and can witnes it The Answerer himselfe knoweth I told him so when I first visited him 3. That in Mr. H. answer to the question there doeth not appeare light sufficient to informe any man what that is which in the Dutch custom about Baptisme he disliked And when he propounded the question to me about this matter I did not understand in what particular the difference betweene the Answerer and Mr. H. lay Or secondly Would he intimate that I saught the place or went about to intrude my selfe for continuance 1. Himselfe knoweth that when he with one of the Elders presented to me a call from the Consistory I did not suddenly accept it which I would have done if I had so desired the place as he insinuateth but tooke time to consider of it being not satisfyed about the lawfullnes of the conditions propounded to me 2 Himselfe hath reported that I might have had the place but I refused it which is true being understood in that sense wherein it is sayd of those worthyes Heb. 11.35 that they would not be delivered viz not upon unwarrantable and ill conditions But this is sufficient to cleare me of that imputation of inordinately desiring that place Or thirdly Would he have his credulous Reader to suspect my trueth when I say that I came over but for 3 or 4 moneths Else what meane those 4 praesumptions which he insinuateth to suggest the contrary To which I will answer breifely To the first For a man of plausible gifts eminent and of fame wanting present imployment to present himselfe where a place is vacant where much contention hath bene c. I answer 1. For the titles which he giveth me I account them as they fall from his pen but an honourable reproach 2. For the matter of it Honorifica contumelia Hieron ad Pammach Ocean The extreame necessity of the place he being so weake and unfit to preach together with the importunity of those that sollicited me was the cause moving me who then was out of imployment and in continuall danger to come over to that place chusing rather to cast my selfe upon Gods providence in perills of the sea and in a strange land where I might be of some use to the Church for a time then to live privately but neither safely nor proffitably in my owne land in hope that 3 or 4 moneth would quiet and pacifye they re spirits that were most exasperated and incensed against me without any just cause that so my returne to my owne land might be with safety and comfort What if this might give them occasion of seeking and calling me will it thence follow that I saught the place before I was called or that I did intrude or thrust my selfe in for a Pastor Pag. 16 or that I runne before I was sent as
appoyntment of the rest one of them translated it into latine which was sent to me and now is by him out of latine translated into English Now that the Reader may see how much he is abused by this false translation of that wrighting I will publish 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 the very wrighting it selfe verbatim without alteration of a syllable as I received it from them and then compare this translation with it The Latine copy word for word Nos infra-scripti Pastores Ecclesiae Belgicae in civitate Amsteldamensi a viro Reverendo D. Pageto fideli pastore in Ecclesiâ Anglicanâ ejusdem civitatis nec non a venerandis fratribus Senioribus ac Diaconis ejusdem Ecclesiae Anglicanae specialiter requisiti ac fraternè rogati ut privatum nostrum judicium in causa vocationis quae ab universâ Ecclesiâ praedictâ videtur expeti Reverendi Clarissimi Doctissimique viri D. DAVENPORTII sincerè declarare atque exponere non recusemus idque in casu illo unico particulari spectante Baptismum eorum infantium qui in Ecclesiâ Anglicanâ baptizandi offeruntur Re totâ utrinque benè intellectâ ritè perpensâ et ad normam Verbi Dei ordinemque receptum in Ecclesijs Reformatis harum Provinciarum in quibus praedicta Ecclesia Anglicana sese membrum profiretur sub Classe Amsteldamensi probè examinatâ sincerè ac coram Deo in bonâ conscientiâ responsum damus atque declaramus Nihil magis nobis in votis esse quam ut praedictus D. Davenportius cujus insignis eruditio et singularis pietas ab omnibus fratribus Anglicanis apprime probatur laudaturque quemque hoc ipso nomine nec non ob alias virtutes ejus laudabiles etiam ipsi D. Pageto charissimum esse intelligimus ad ministerium Ecclesiae Anglicanae praedictae legitime promoveatur Bonum insuper ipsius Zelum ac studium de parentum ac susccptorum istorum liberorum praeuiô aliquô examine privatô in religione Christianâ instituendô quam maximè quidem nobis probari de re ipsâ tamen ita nos statuere ut praedictum illud examen quantum Ecclesiae Anglicanae feret aedificatio instituatur sed si fortè vel parentes susceptoresve istud accedere ac subire renuant vel ob temporis brevitatem aut alijs justis de causis fieri illud non queat vel etiam qui accesserint fratris vel fratrum examinantium judicio non videbuntur pro isto tempore satisfacere ipse infans cujus parentes susceptoresve constat esse Christianos quique Christianam religionem ad lectionem liturgiae Sacramenti Baptismi publicè coram Ecclesia profitentur a Baptismo propterea minime arceatur aut baptizarì recusetur sed ut ejusmodi ignorantes parentes susceptoresve post infantem baptizatum ulterÄus postea quoad fieri potest edoceantur quoniam scilicet infantes Christianorum suorum parentum susceptorumve vel inscitiam vel etiam ejusmodi inobedientiam ferre ac luere non debent Si quis tamen casus ullus alius obveniat quo minus infans oblatus baptizandus videatur ut tum totius presbyterij Anglicani vel etiam si necesse fuerit aut commodè fieri possit Classis Amsteldamensis judicium interveniat audiatur atque in eo acquiescatur Sic actum et transactum in aedibus D. Pageti Die 20. Ianuarij 1634. Ioannes le Mairius Iacobus Triglandius Henricus Geldorpius Rudolphus Petri. Iacobus Laurentius 2. The translation word for word We the underwritten Ministers of the Dutch Church in the citty of Amsterdam being specially and lovingly requested and desired of the Reverend Mr. PAGET a faithfull Pastour iâ— the English Church of the same city as also the the Reverend brethren the Elders and Deacons of the same English Church that we would not refuse sincerely to declare shew our private judgment about the calling of the Reverend most famous learned Mr. DAVENPORT which seemes to be desired of the whole Church aforesaid and that in this particular case alone concerning the Baptisme of those infants which are offered to be baptised in the English Church having well understood and duely weighed the whole matter on both sides and having throughly examined it according to the rule of Gods word and the order received in the Reformed Churches of these Provinces in which the aforesaid English Church doth professe it selfe a member under the Classis of Amsterdam we doe sincerely and in the presence of God with good conscience answer and declare that we desire nothing more then that the foresaid Mr. DAVENPORT whose notable learning and singular piety is much approoved and commended of all the English our brethren whom also in this regard and for his other commendable gifts we understand to be most deare unto Mr. PAGET may be lawfully promoted unto the Ministry of the English Church aforesaid we doe also greatly approove of his good Zeale and care of having some precedent private examination of the parents and sureties of these children in the Christian Religion yet touching the matter it selfe we doe so judge that this aforesaid examination be ordained so farr as may stand with the edification of the English Church but if haply the parents or sureties shall refuse to come and undergoe this examination or if for the shortnes of time or for other just causes it can not be done or if those that doe come shall not seeme for that time to satisfye the judgment of the Brethren one or more that doe examine them that yet the infant whose pareÌ„ts sureties are manifest to be ChristiaÌ„s which publickly before the Church doe professe Christian Religion at the reading of the leiturgie of the Sacrament of Baptisme shall not therefore be excluded or deprived thereof but that such ignorant pareÌ„ts sureties be further instructed after the infaÌ„t be baptised to wit because the infaÌ„ts of ChristiaÌ„s ought not to beare suffer the punishmeÌ„t of the ignorance or yet of such disobedience of their pareÌ„ts or sureties If yet any other case fall-out whereby it may seeme that the infant presented should not be baptised that then the judgment of the whole English Presbytery or also if need be and if conveniently it may be done that the judgment of the Classis of Amsterdam be obtayned and rested in So was it done and transacted in the house of Mr. PAGET the 28. day of Ianuary 1634. Here it must be noated that the Answerer pretendeth to publish this wrighting 1. So as it was done and transacted in his house the 28. day of Ianuary 1634. 2. So as it was written downe and read before him when they enquired of him whether he for his part did rest therein and he signifyed his consent with them These things being premised J demand by what pretence will the Answerer defend or excuse this his translation Let me without offence desire to know why he hath translated quorum parentes susceptoresve constat esse Christianos whose parents and suretyes are
it is not safe vllius jurare in verba magistri to rest upon the authority of any man without a warrant from the Scripture Secondly Compare what was alleadged out of Beza himselfe in my 1. Reason in this Section with this passage and what Mr Cartwright answereth to some part of this in the same Section the Reader will see that it may easily be declared that this sentence will not helpe the Advocates for promiscuous baptizing Thirdly Consider the state of the question as Beza maketh it and it will appeare that the infants for whose Baptisme he pleadeth are of such as we may rationally judge to be ingrafted into Christ and elect of God only being fallen by infirmity are delivered unto Sathan that godly sorrow may worke in them repentance But what is this for the justifying of a promiscuous administration of Baptisme to all that are offered in such a place as Amsterdam concerning many of whom we can not rationally have any such persuasion Fourthly The foure things supposed by Beza as cases wherein he dare not give liberty of baptising serve to discover the evill of this custom whereunto that wrighting would have bound me For if all that are presented though they refuse to make knowne before who or what they are must be received may not the infāts of many whose case is desperate in the judgment of the Church who are not only Apostates from it but persecutors yea even the children of Iewes Mores and others such like without the parents consent be offered to baptisme and so be baptised which were to profane the Sacrament 2. Observe how timerously Beza expresseth himselfe about the parents on whom the right of the infant to baptisme dependeth in this case whereby it may seeme that he was not fully cleare in it himselfe Fifthly The cautions and provisoes which Beza giveth to be observed in the baptising of such children of excommunicates as he there speaketh of doe strongly condemne the disorder of that place where the father is so farr from being admonished publickly of his sinne that he is not so much as knowne or inquired after and where they are so farr from taking care for the holy education of the child that they regard not by whom it is presented nor what becommeth of it afterwards 2. De consc lib. 4. cap. 27. Secondly Dr. Ames commeth next to be considered and a passage in his booke of cases to be examined least some ignorantly others willfully wrest it to the countenancing of this disorder which to be farr from his meaning himselfe doeth abundantly declare in the same place For he so expresseth his opinion concerning the baptisme of diverse sorts of infants there mentioned as it may appeare that his judgment was against promiscuous baptising all that are brought according to the controverted custom which I demonstrate thus Resp 2 First he requireth 2. things in such infants as necessary to their admittance 1. That they be in the covenant of Grace in respect of outward profession and aestimation at least in one of the parents 2. That there is hope that they shall hereafter be educated und instructed in the same covenant Both which he affirmeth upon the same ground which we layd in the first Reason viz Because Baptisme is a signe and seale of the covenant But how can they be esteemed Christian parents or what hope can there be of the education of such infants in the covenant when both the parents sureties are altogether unknowne to the Church and that in such a place as Amsterdam where is such a confluence of people of all nations and Sects Resp 3 Secondly He affirmeth that Baptisme doeth most properly belong to those infants whose parents at least one of them is in the Church not out of it And this he affirmeth upon the former ground viz Because Baptisme is the seale of the covenant But who knoweth not that many people are in Amsterdam who are not in the Church but out of it in many respects yet none must be refused that are presented to Baptisme Thirdly He supposeth that those whose parents are unknowne are in charity to be accounted Christians when there is not just cause of presuming the contrary But howsoever this might carry some shew of reason with it in such places where all the inhabitants professe religion and are joyned to some Church yet in such a place as Amsterdam how can a man presume otherwise then the contrary of many that may be offered to Baptisme Fourthly He professeth that a difference must be put betweene the infants of those who in some sort by profession belong to the Church yet doe openly breake the covenant of God and the children of others in the manner of their admittance to Baptisme viz that for the former sort what is required by the Covenant and wanting in them must be supplyed by others And for this he giveth two Reasons 1. Because a distinction must be observed in all holy things betweene the cleane and uncleane 2. Because else the ordinances of God cannot be preserved from all pollution For these reasons he doeth not allow the Baptisme of excommunicates unlesse they have fit suretyes to undertake for their education nor of bastards unlesse their parents have professed their repentance or other godly persons will take upon them the care of their education nor of papists unlesse they be presented by fit suretyes who have power over thē for theire education But is any such care taken any such course observed about the admission of such to Baptisme in Amsterdam Thirdly Mr. Attersoll shall shut up this discourse of times Of the Sacram of Bapt. 2. booke ch 6 whom the Reader may suspect to favour this custom if something be not noated by us to prevent mistakes Now howsoever he may seeme to be some what large in his judgement this way and to yeeld more then either Mr. Beza or Dr. Ames have done in this point it may be more then himselfe would have done if he had fully understood the disorder against which we testifye yet the limitations and cautions which he propoundeth doe discover the evill of that practise concerning which the present question is P. 218 For 1. he denyeth that the infants of Turkes or Iewes may be baptised against the liking and good will of their parents But it is very possible and probable that some such may be offered to Baptisme by any that have stollē them or for some other reason for ought the minister knoweth or demandeth in that place P. 219. 2. In the case of the children of impaenitent persons he supposeth two things without which his plea for their Baptisme falleth 1. That they are so borne in the Church and of it that the Church may be said to be as it were their Mother 2. That they are in the Covenant in regard of their Elders of whom they discend as the Iewes were in Abraham though their next parents were wicked P.
purpose if any should at unawares bring such children whose parents are not members we shall desire and counsaile them by the Coster without absolute denyall to bring their children the next excercise following that in the meane time there may be conveniency of examination Vpon which Additionall I will noate some observations 1. That the Elders and Deacons did in effect revoke that testification which was last spoken of For by their adding of this to what was then done it appeared that themselves saw that the former order was not sufficient to safeguard me from the thing that I feared 2. That this Additionall is onely a declaration of their purpose but hath not the force of an order 3. That considering that they purposed onely to signifye so much privately to those persons who should at anytime so come and not to have it published that the wholl Church might take knowledge of it and that by the Coster a meane man whom they to whom he should speake would easily slight and his commission was only to desire and counsaile them which they would easily reject and aske him what he had to doe to counsaile them to deferr the baptising of their children In this case what could he answer but this J doe onely desire and counsail you but I may not absolutely deny you And how can such a course secure me Here againe the Answerer misreporteth my answer for he affirmeth that this would not content me unlesse there might have benean absolute denyall of Baptisme in such a case if intreaty would not serve But I made no such Answer neither is any such answer recorded in the Acts of that Consistory which I have purposely examined All that I stoode upon was that a firme order might be made in the Consistory to secure me from future trouble about that matter But this the Answerer would not permit to be done though it might have bene done without any offence to the Classis and with much content to the Church So that I have just cause to complaine of his want of brotherly moderation in this point what soever he seemed to yeeld which he knew was not sufficient to prevent the thing which I feared The following passage is an unjust reproach which I will passe by having answered to the substance of it formerly How unlawfull that practise is and how necessary it was that I should witnesse against it doth appeare in my Reply to his twelfth Section In Conclusion when the Elders prayed me to deferr my answer to another time the Answerer told me that when I should give myne answer if I did accept of this calling I must promise to rest in that is to conforme to the wrighting of the five Ministers Whereby it appeareth that not withstanding all these pretences of accommodation conformity to that wrighting which bound me to this disorder of promiscuous baptizing was first and last the condition whereupon my calling to that ministry must stand or fall and that the Answerer would have it so Thus that day passed Now though I had just cause of offence at these passages yet that it might appeare how much I was for peace and brotherly concord the next day of their meeting being the 15 of Feb. I came into the Consistory to give my answer which was that if a promise must be made by me to conforme to the judgment of those Ministers set downe as an order for me to rest in I could not doe it because the promise of doing any thing is a Confessiō that the thing is lawfull to be done which I doe not beleive to be so in this case yet because I much prized their loves and tendred their peace as I truely told them I was willing if they desired it to goe on in assisting the Answerer as I formerly had done for a convenient time to see if in the interim by a freindly acquainting my selfe with the Dutch Ministers I might be satisfyed about the lawfullnes of this custom whereunto my conformity was required or procure that this questiō might be layd downe might understand what those other orders customs of the Dutch Church are which I must observe more fully know the mēbers state of the English Church wherwith I should joyne In which motion I intended no intrusion which I have alwayes abhorred and was very farr from in that place but onely the peace and good of the Church This the Elders apprehended to be very reasonable desired that it might take effect but the Answerer was otherwise minded as it is in expresse words by the Elders recorded in the Acts of that Consistory His Answer to the 19. Section examined containing certaine Acts of the Classis after that my dissent and refusall of the call was knowne IN this Section we have the story of passages concerning this buisenes in three Classes and with the Magistrates But before I examine them it may be demanded why this matter was brought into the Classis seing I had in the Consistory declared my not accepting the call which was offered me upon those termes was it because the Consistory had not power to give me a convenient time for informing my selfe concerning the orders customs of the Dutch Church by consent amongst themselves without seeking to the Classis But I come to the particulars Concerning the first Classicall meeting fowre things are reported 1. their dislike of my change 2. Feb. 27. 28. 1634. their approbation of the five ministers wrighting 3. the deputation of diverse Ministers to goe to me 4. the persuasions which these deputyes used To the first The Reader in considering the former Sections will find that my judgment hath bene against this promiscuous baptizing which the Answerer required from the first to this instant without any change To the second 1. It it is not to be expected that they should reprove or dislike that wrighting which was framed in defence of their customs 2. If this be alleadged for the reproofe of my dissenting from them how easily can I reply that no Synod of these Churches alloweth them to require this of me but I will answer him as Augustine doeth an Arrian with whom he had to doe saying Neither may I alleadge the Councill of Nice nor thou the Councill of Ariminum Contr. Max. Arr Cap. 14 thereby to prejudice one another but by the Scriptures which are witnesses proper to neither but commō to boath matter with matter cause with cause reason with reason ought to be debated But neither the five ministers produced any ground from the Scripture to warrant their opinion or practise in this particular not the Classis to justifye their approbation and confirmation thereof To the third 1. That is more fitly called a command then a counsail wherein a man is bound to rest and that under such a paenalty 2. Three Dutch Ministers being deputed to speake with me desired to know what J disliked in that letter I answered them 1 that I disliked
worke of his ministry towards those that are not of his flock charge by denying the Argument in every one of his proofes But enough hath bene said already and my desire is onely to satisfye all men concerning what I wrote to the Classis being called and compelled thereunto 2. The second text is in Coll. 4.17 Say to Archippus Take heed to the ministry which thou hast received in the Lord that thou fullfill it Ans The Answerer sayth the answer made to the former allegation may serve for answer of this Reply It may so even as fitly as for that that is not at all as hath bene shewed in the examination of those Answers onely one thing more we will add from hence to what hath bene said That as the Apostles tooke no such power to themselves to bind ministers to doe the worke of their ministry to those who are not of their Church So the Church also hath not power to require any more of them and therefore the Classis cannot who have no more power then is given them by the Churches in that combination Ans 1. Yet from hence also diverse things are to be observed 1. that if the ministry aught to be fullfilled then not to be lightly forsaken c. Reply True but if the Church give an orderly dimission upon just cause as it was in my case the ministry is not lightly forsaken but fullfilled so farr as the Church did or could reasonably require it and therein that text is satisfyed Ans 2. If the ministry aught to be fullfilled then are the ministers to declare the wholl will and counsaile of God so farr as it is revealed to them for the good of Gods people Act. 20.20.27 Reply True Neither have I bene altogether wanting to the discharge of this duety in my measure and in that manner as might be for the good of Gods people His third answer hath bene replyed unto in Sect. 20. and therefore to add more in this place were but actum agere lost labour As the Answerer would have every godly Minister consider whether it be not meete that each of these things should be duely regarded of them So I could add other considerations and observations which might be not unproffitable yet least I should seeme to render reproach for reproach I will forbeare them and spare him 3. The third Text is in 1. Pet. 5.2 Feed the flock 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is among you Ans The strength of that objection which is implyed in these words hath bene already taken away in answer to the former allegations Act. 20.28 Reply As in the former places so in this no more is required of Pastors by vertue of their office then to feed that flock to the tending whereof themselves were designed by a singular appointment Ans 1. The similitude taken from shepheards doeth not restrayne ministers from excercising some acts of their ministry towards those who are no members of their Church seing shepheards for the defence and benefit of their flocks combine themselves c. Reply The combination of shepheards is a good embleme of a well ordered combination of diverse ministers For 1. it is in common cases of danger to the flock or for mutuall assistance in difficult cases as appeareth in those instances alleadged by him Gen. 29.7.8.9 Esay 31.4 Luke 2.8 2. it is for the good and helpe not for the hurt hindrance of the flock 3. no one shepheard is streightned in the discharge of any pastorall duety to his flock or bound to performe the office of a shepheard to any other flock or sheepe then those whereunto he is appoynted by the Lord and owner of the flock from whom he receiveth his commission And in such a way of combination among ministers much good may redound to particular Churches and to the Pastors thereof Ans 2. The word translated feeding doth also signifye to rule and governe if this kind of feeding be restrained to one Congregation then is the authority of Classes overthrowne then is it unlawfull for assemblies of ministers to give their voyces for the decision of controversies in any Congregation but their owne contrary to Ezek. 34.12 Reply To feed in this place is to governe as becometh shepheards that are servants Luke 22.27 not as lords of the flock which is there forbidden vers 3. from the appearance whereof they are not free Dr. Ames in 1. Pet. 5.3 1. that will have the Church in any sort to depend upon their authority 2. which prescribe any thing as necessary to be done by Pastor or people which is not drawne out of the Scripture 3. who declare the will of God it selfe too imperiously having no respect to their infirmity with whom they have to doe Now such a government doeth not overthrow any lawfull authority of Classes much lesse doeth it argue it to be unlawfull for assemblies of ministers to give their voyces for the decision of controversies whereby the right ordering of particular Churches is not hindred but furthered Neither doeth that Scripture alleadged by him contradict any thing here spoken nor indeed doeth he shew how it serveth for the purpose for which he produceth it Ans 3. If we consider the persons to whom Peter wrote this Epistle the elect strangers dispersed 1. Pet. 1.1.2 and their manifold necessities in those times of persecution what an unreasonable thing is it to imagine that the ministers of those Countryes might not excercise some act of their ministry for baptising of those dispersed strangers c. Reply Seing the question is onely of the power of the Classis in binding a minister according to the tenour of that wrighting of the five ministers and seing I acknowledge it to be lawfull and professe my readines to baptise those that are not members of this Church if they are members of any true Church I see not how this exception is of any validity against any thing said by me in that wrighting unlesse he will accuse the Apostles of unreasonablenes in not making some order for that Classicall authority which he fancyeth 4. His fourth answer is of no use in this question the premises being considered Another place of Scripture Rom 14.5.23 was alleadged by me to shew that they might not warrantably bind me to the thing in question seing I could not doe it with persuasion of the lawfullnes of it and feared that in doing it I should sinne against Christ Ans 1. The Apostle here speakes of doubting about things indifferent c. Reply 1. If this thing be necessary to the calling and office of a minister which is in question it had concerned them or him to shew in what respect it is necessary whether by any command of Christ which could not be obeyed in the discharge of of the pastorall office without doing this or as a meane necessarily conducing to the ends whereunto the pastorall office serveth 2. If the Apostle will not have men bound to the doing of
Cyprianus vigilantissimus Episcopus gloriosissimus Martyr Blessed Cyprian a most vigilant Bishop a most glorious Martyr And comparing Cyprian Stephanus Idem lib. de unico Bap. contr Petil. cap. 14. Donatus together in their different carriage about that question he did not reproach Cyprian as schysmatically affected but shevved that both Cyprian and Stephanus and those that adhaered to them preserved unity each vvith other Idem contr Donat. lib. 5. Cap. 11. and did not as Donatus seperate from the Church for that cause and for himselfe he professed hovvsoever he held as he did touching the Baptisme of Iohn se non acturum pugnaciter c. that he vvould not quarrrell those that held othervvise In latter times Beza shevved the same spirit tovvards Bullinger and Gualter Praef. in lib. de presbyt et excom contr Erast for though they seemed to incline more to Erastus his opinion then he could vvish yet he speaketh honourably of them calling them after their deaths non tantum Tigurinae sed Christianae totius Ecclesiae lumina lights not onely of the Tigurine but also of the wholl Christian Church and elsevvhere they are stiled by him optimi illi beatissimae memoriae fratres summâ tum pietate tum eruditione praediti his excelent brethren of very blessed memory men of singular piety and learning and he taketh occasion to excuse their difference from him in that point not to brand them with any black noate for it Thus in those men the spirit of love vvraught as it had done before them in the Apostles of Christ For howsoever Paul justly reproved Peter as the case required Gal. 2. yet Peter did not lye at the catch as vve say to recriminate him but tooke occasion from some passage in Pauls epistles to make an honourable mention of him saying 2. Pet. 3.15 Account that the long suffering of the Lord is salvation as our beloved brother Paul according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you c. such a carriage of differences amongst Christians specially Ministers of the Gospell vvould much conduce to the advancement of the truth and stopping of the mouthes of adversaries vvhich are apt to be opened upon tvvo advantages 1. The differences in judgment amongst professours 2. The bitternes of spirit vvhich they discover in those differences To prevent as much as in me lyeth any hurt that may come from these tvvo praejudices I thinck it requisite that I add a word or two upon occasion of this advantage which some bitter passages in the Answer doe seeme to give all sorts of adversaryes to blaspheme the trueth 1. All sorts of people are apt to object against the truth that the professours of it doe not agree amongst themselves This the ancient Philosophers objected against the Christians in the first 300 yeares after Christ whose mouthes the worthy lights in those times stopped with the different sects among the Philosophers thēselves In like manner I may tell the Papalls of the 26 Schysmes in the Romish Church others of the troubles in Franckford raysed in Queene Maryes daies about bringing in the English liturgy into that place for the effecting whereof they spared not to endanger the life of that famous Godly man Mr. Knocks who opposed it others of Troubles about excommunications in Amsterdam extant to the view of all men and all men of differences about their severall wayes and projects 2. Bellarmine to prove that our Religion doeth not produce holynes in mens lives instanceth in the violence of Luthers spirit which appeared in much bitternes even against those vvho agreed vvith him in opposition to popery because they differed from him in some particular tenets That this is but a fallible signe may appeare not onely in this that shevves of holynes may be vvhere holynes in trueth is not as in that gravity constancy and humility vvhich vvas observeable in that enimy of Gods grace Pelagius Aug. Epist 120. Mat. 7.15 according to our Saviours praediction concerning Wolves in sheepes cloathing but also in this that distempered passions have bene found in eminent servants of God as in the difference betvveene Paul Barnabas the onely vvise God for his ovvne glory many vvayes by some infirmityes stayning the glory of all flesh Hovv hot vvas the contention betvveene Cyprian and Stephanus vvhat violent and troublesome dissention vvas there betvveene Theophilus and Chrisostom also betvveene Cyrill of Alexandria and Theodoret boath Bishops Catholicks boath learned boath godly boath excelent pillars of the Church and yet he that readeth both their vvrightings vvould thinck that boath vvere dangerous enimyes of the Church The invectives of Ierom and Ruffinus one against another are extant and Augustines Epistles vvherein he bevvayled the same Hovv many unkindnesses passed betvveene Chrisostom and Epiphanius Did not the one refuse to pray vvith the other Did not the one chalēge the other for manyfold breaches of Canons Did not the one professe that he hoped he should never dye a Bishop and the other that he should never come alive into his country boath vvhich things fell out according to their uncharitable vvishes Epiphanius dying by the vvay as he vvas returning home and Chrisostom being cast out of his Bishoprick and dying in banishment And these things came to passe 1. partly by the instigatiō of others Thus Epiphanius vvas stirred up against Chrisostom by Theophilus So that their contentions arose from a versatilous wit accompanied vvith a malicious and vindictive spirit in Theophilus imprudence accōpanied vvith too much credulity in Epiphanius 2. partly by some stiffnes inflexibility of spirit in some of them accōpanied vvith much hardnes to be reconciled vvhen once offēded to those vvith vvhom they vvere displeased from vvhich blemish Chrisostom vvas not altogether free and that caused him somevvhat the more trouble 3. partly by mistakes as in the differēce betvveene Theodoret and Cyrill and in the division betvveene the Christians of the East and those of the West the one suspecting the other of haeresy upon a mistake For the Romans beleived three persons in the Trinity but vvould not beleive three hypostases thence the Orientall Christians thought them Sabellians vvho held that there is but one person in the Godhead called by three names The Easterne Christians beleived three hypostases in the Godhead but vvould not admit three persons vvhence they of Rome thought them to be Arrians vvho beleived that there are three distinct substances in the Godhead Athanasius perceiving that they differed not in judgment brought them to accord by shevving them that they meant one thing though their expressions vvere different so that there vvas a difference arising from ill suspition which was grounded upon misunderstanding one another Lastly from an ill guided Zeale whereby beside the former Luther and those that adhaered to him were carryed too far in opposition against Zwinglius about the Sacrament which afterwards Luther saw and confessed to Melancthon a litle
171 35 Magistrates Magistrates may not take away the power of the whole Church froÌ„ her in choosing Officers but may onely rectify her choyce 51. 17 Magistrates possessed with a false informatioÌ„ about the cause of the Replyers comming over 183. 30 Magistrates give but a conditionall consent to the Replyers settling 185. 9 Ministers The lattine coppy of the writing of the 5 Dutch Ministers together with the translation 126 Objections Objections against the peoples choosing their owne Ministers answered 45. 6 Occasion To be an Occasion onely of an evill is not blame worthie 199. 27 Offence To give an Offence is sinfull 143 11. Opposition Opposition among the persons whom the Church desired objected by the Answerer examined and the persons vindicated 57. 12 Order Order about having one that can speake Dutch may be attributed more to the Answerer then the Magistrate 91. 5 Of the Order agreed upon in the Consistory and the insufficiency of it for accommodation 177. 13. The inlarging of the Order as much as just nothing 190. 1â— An Order agreed upoÌ„ to be made by the Elders hindred by the Answerer â—16 13 Pamphlet What a Pamphlet is 8. 8 Parents Parents sin a sufficient ground in some cases to keepe their children from baptisme 167. 5 Parker Mr. Parker defended 74. 7 praised for his great worth 74 19. What workes hee was author of 74. 22 Mr. Parkers judgment about the power by which the Church should be governed 240. 21 Against the Answerer 242. 6 Passions Passions are then strongest when reason is weakest 6. 10 Pastor Pastors proper worke to feede a flock already gathered 291. 37 To compell Pastors to performe a ministeriall act to them who are not members is to confound the Apostolicall and Pastorall office 280. 22 What governing belongs to Pastors 298. 10 It is lawfull for Pastors in some cases to flee 103. 2 Patronages Patronages whence they came in and the evill which followed upon them 41. 15 Potts Mr. Potts grieved with promiscuous baptising 125. 23 Praysing Selfe Praysing not alwayes unlawfull nor vaine 25. 24 An evill end ofttimes in praysing 9. 2. Preservation Selfe Preservation must not be with calumniation 12. 32 Proove To Proove belongs to the Answerer for divers reasons 32. 30 Protestation Protestation with the Answerers observations upon it reviewed 317. Provocation Threefold ProvocatioÌ„ added unjustly 325. 1 Quaere Threefold Quaere in the Protestation with the Answerers observations reviewed 322. 4 Reformation As Reformation increased the right of the people more pleaded for 41. 36 Reply A Reply upon the 4 answerers which the Answerer calles his comforts 34. 26 Replyer Replyers writings unjustly called complaints 10. 32 Replyer unjustly charged for nourishing contention 15. 8 Replyer vindicated about a writing left by him for which the Answerer blames him 23. 28. 99. 2. Iustified in the matter of the writing 201 4 things in the Replyers defense about his writing considerable 23. 29. Replyer freed froÌ„ a 4fold charge layd upon him about his industry in keeping the Church together 25. 13 Replyers writing sent to the Classis vindicated from the imputation of the Answerer 33. 18 Replyer defended about faults in his writing 72. 16 Replyer vindicated from the cavill of the Answerer about the word Alwayes 96. 15. Replyer justified about his coming over to Amsterdam 101. 6 About an authentick testimony which he is charged to have wanted 102. 20 About the resignatioÌ„ of his Pastorall charge 106. 8 Concerning his knowing of differences 112. 8 Concerning his intention of comming over but for 3 or 4 monethes and seeking of the place 112 24 Replyer justified about writing divers conferences which hee had with the Answerer 124 1 Why the Replyer rested not in the judgement of the 5 Dutch Ministers about promiscuous Baptising 174. 4 Replyer vindicated about his falsely supposed consenting to the writing of the 5 Dutch Ministers And froÌ„ an accusation of withdrawing his consent 187. 21 Replyer cleared concerning his pretended preaching in a private house 197. 1. and 275. 20 Cleared from fault in desisting from it 277. 22 Replyer cleared about his journeying out of towne before the Sacrament 200. 24 Replyer justified in his three writings 202. 26 Replyer freed from the Answerers quarelling at these words he did not desire me 204. 27 Replyers opinion concerning the Classis the same with Dr. Ames 224. 36 Replyer cleared from Scisme 248. 32. Replyers judgement concerning the truenesse of Churches expressed in Dr. Ames words 281 19. Replyers opinion against promiscuous baptising not built upon grounds of separation 280. 20 Of the right by which the Replyer did communicate in the Lords Supper 288. 20 Replyer refuteth not himselfe when hee professeth readinesse to baptise their infaÌ„ts who have membership elsewhere 292. 34 Request Threefold Request in the Protestation with the observations of the Answerer reviewed 324. 25 Scisme Scisme what it is how taken 26. 9. Five things about Scisme 26. 22 Scripture Scripture ought to be the rule to trye all things by 13. 20 All things agreeing with Scripture are old though they may appeare new 13. 33 Texts of Scripture answered by the Answerer reviewed by the Replyer 286. to 316 Acts 20.28 reviewed 288 9 Col. 4.17 reviewed 296. 19 1. Peter 5.2 reviewed 297. 16 Ro. 14.5.23 reviewed 299. 5 Act. 11.21.26 reviewed 304. 32 Gen. 17.10 reviewed 306. 8 Rom. 4.11 reviewed 306. 32 Acts 2.39 reviewed 310. 11 1. Cor. 5.12 reviewed 311. 37 Secession Secession from a Church twofold 26. 27 Shepheards Shepheards combination a good embleame of the combination of Ministers 297. 29 The reason of Shepheards combination 297. 30 Speech Speech must have two propertyes 2. 8 Suretyes Sureties not from the beginning 164. 14. Sureties caÌ„ give no right to Baptisme 164. 35 Synods Abuse of Synods have caused some reverend men to speake against them 225. 9 Synods necessarie for certain causes 228. 11 Power of Synods see Classis Voetius The judgement of Voetius about the power of the Church 242. 36. Waldenses Waldenses seperate bring the right of â—hoosing their Ministers to the Church 41. 31 Yea. The saying Yea not sufficient to testify faith notwithstanding the places of Scripture brought to proove it 302. 1 Negative argument from Scripture disabled by the Answerer in his arguing for the sufficiency of Yea. 305. 19 FIN AN APOLOGETICALL REPLY To a booke called An ansvver to unjust Complaints c. THE TITLE PAGE EXAMINED AN ansvver Every man shall kisse his lipps that answereth right words sayth Salomon Prov. 24.26 3 Things required in a right answer He that will answer complaints made against him with right words must be mindfull especially of three things First for his personall qualification that he be innocent of the particulars charged upon him Let him make his answer first to his owne conscience in the sight of God and then 2 Cor 1.12 from a good conscience bearing witnes of his integrity let him make his answer to men
desired by them and of their owne Nation if it may be and as much as may be without drawing men from the service of other English Congregations in these Countryes so long as some fitt and free men may be had either immediatly from England or else resident in these parts Hereupon they desired Mr. Parker Jf they may not be so happy as to injoy him Mr. Forbes If not him Dr. Ames if not him Mr. Peter If not him Mr. Hooker If not him itur ad me If none of these yet some faythfull one whom with joynt consent they shall chuse Yet if sufficient reason be not given them why they are deprived of all or any of these they find themselves aggreived and complaine to the Consistory of their owne Church And is this such a Piaculum a crime as this Answerer intimateth it to be And is there no difference betweene the Christian Corinthians going to Law amongst the Heathen neglecting such meanes of composing differences as might be had in the Church and these men seeking help from the Church for redresse of the Church-greivances That they had cause to complaine will appeare in the reply to the Answerer in the following Sections and that upon such cause in case of obstinacy on his part they had power to have proceeded further then they did in that complaint who knoweth not The strange liberty that the Answerer taketh in misapplying the Scriptures alleadged by him upon this occasion should be a matter of sorrow to the godly Reader and of humiliation to himselfe 2. The Answerer is the cause of contentiō which is aggravated 1. By his relation Father 2. Sam. 18.5 Paululum supplicijpro magnodelicto satis est patri That sweet name of Father which the Answerer assumeth to himselfe and it is due to him in respect of his office should have caused an yearning of bowells in him towards his Children that cryed for milke when the Nurses whom they desired were thrust out of dores At least when they cryed for bread he should not have given them a stone and beate them instead of feeding them Suppose the Children were froward A litle fatherly indulgence in granting their desire it not being for their hurt but for their good should have bene used to still quiett them David would have rebellious Absalon gently intreated for his sake But these did not conspire against their Father as Absalon did only because their father was not the Lord but Steward of the house they complained that he denied the houshold that allowance of provision which their heavenly Father afforded his family But it may be they did that too contentiously Jt will not be found so upon tryall no not in this act of exhibiting their greivances in theyr owne Consistory if all the earnest intreatyes large offers for the poore other meanes used by them for the obtaining of their desire the necessity of the place the inconvenience which already they felt in the so long want of one the qualities of the men of whom he deprived them the insufficiency of the pretences whereupon he did so and their dispayre of being accomodated to their content be aequally and judiciously considered And if the contention of Children be indeed greivous to his fatherly spirit how easily might he have prevented it by obeying that Apostolicall Canon Coll. 3.21 Fathers provoke not your Children least they be discouraged 2. By the place The place where he liveth and his relation to that Church should haue warned him standing upon his watch towre and espying so many enimyes invironing them on every side to haue interposed seasonably and strenuously for the prevention of intestine dissentions and for the making up of breaches within and not by such a course to have occasioned a division among the members through their falling into severall partyes And yet even they who seeme herein to adhaere to him doe it not out of approbation of his carriage in this particular nor out of opposition against me whom themselves professe to desire but out of personall enmity against some of the Complainants who appeared most to labour for my setling there and therefore willingly they layd hold of this opportunity and served themselves of it for the more plausible and undiscernable venting of their disaffection to them by opposition against them under a pretence of standing for the Answerer Here he quarelleth the Complainants 1. For stiling themselves burthened and oppressed which is as if a Father should beate his children till they cry and then beate them againe for crying How unjust this passage is will appeare in the examination of the ensuing Sections 2. For calling themselves members of the English Church How unreasonable this reproofe is may easily be perceived For what though the words were understood as meaning the body of the Church which yet is not necessary that the greatest part of the congregation were otherwise minded which yet is not so will it thence follow that their words are notoriously false I trowe not For the denomination may follow the better part though it be not the greater as a man hath his denomination from his reasonable soule though the unreasonable body be the greater part and a corne feild is denominated not from the chaffe which is the greater but from the corne which is the better though the lesser part I will not stand to enquire of the Answerer what necessity there is that Elem in Psal 58.1 should signifye a faction in the Church seing the word which signifyeth binding in a sheafe or bundle may noate a combination in the Common wealth as well as a faction in the Church and the context seemeth to carry it to the former rather then to the latter sense Nor will I returne upon him his descant on Ionath Elem rechokim in the title of psal 56. My desire purpose was to continue as I went on 4 or 5 moneths in a patient silent bearing of my personall greivances Eph 4.2.3 forbearing him in love indeavouring to keepe the unity of the spirit in the bond of peace For which purpose I may say in some measure with the Psalmist I as a deafe man Psal 38.13.14 heard not and I was as a dumbe man that openeth not his mouth And so had remained to this day if I had not bene by unkind importunity compelled to these Apologies first in private and now in publick 3. By the time Thirdly His descant upon the time of theire wrighting may easily be answered 1 by concession 2 by retortion First By concession that the yeare 1634. was a time of much affliction of the Churches in Dutchland therefore might seeme seaonable for the warning of the Churches in Holland to take some course for a timely prevention of like judgements upon themselves by a due reformation of things amisse 2. That on the day of the moneth when they presented their complaints his mayd died But they say 1 they knew not
vayne Credulity 4. Diminishing of the grace and power of God And for what Because I sayd If I had not exercised much patience and industry the Church would certainely have fallen from him I will speake something to every one of these severally To the first It is no vaine selfe-praysing to say so The first charge replyed upoÌ„ 1. For it attaineth its end finem operis oporantis For it sheweth both how free I was from nourishing contention in that Church for the preservation of whose peace I both did and suffered so much which was the end of the speach and it tended to Gods glory and to the honour of the Gospell that I should declare my actions to be comely to be according to that vertue Phil. 4.8 prayse and good report which we are commanded to thinck of which was the end of the speaker 2. Nor is all selfe-praysing unlawfull if it arise not from selfe-seeking As when the report is true and uttered in way of testimony to the trueth the case requiring it All which requisits doe concurr in this speach 2. The secoÌ„d charge replyed upoÌ„ To the second It is no wrong to the Answerer nor to the Church that I say so First Not to the Answerer For the report is neither untrue nor needlesly made but upon constraint to declare so much for the clearing of myne owne innocency Nor doth he nor can he disprove any thing spoken by me in that particular Secondly not to the Church For neither doe I speake of the body of it indefinitly without exception but of the better and most considerable part of it nor doth my speach argue them of whom it is spoken to be of a Schysmaticall disposition For the clearing whereof because the word Schysme is so frequently used Schysme dâ—â—b e and misapplyed by the Answerer we will breifly consider the ordinary uses of the word Schysme in the Church which signifyeth 1. sometimes such a voluntary and unjust secession from the Church 1. Io. 2.19 whereby the Vnity of it is broken 2. sometimes such a dissention in the Church whereby not the Vnity 1. Cor. 11.18 but the peace is broken Jn which of these senses doth the Answerer use the word in this place If in the latter they are Schysmatickes according to the judgment of the Apostle who cause division and offences 1. Cor. 11.14 6. Things about schysme 1. Every sesession is not unjust 2. Nor a breach of Vnity Chameron de Eccles de Schysm pag. 395. 3. Nor concluded to be a schysme Cartwr Reply And so he will find it layed at his owne dore If in the former it is a wrong done to me if he intimate as he seemeth to doe that I accuse them of a Schysmaticall disposition in that sense when I say that they would have fallen from him For 1. every secession from a Church is not unjust as the Reformed Churches plead for the justification of their forsaking the Romish Antichristian Synagogue which they truely affirme to be no Schysme nor themselves Schysmatickes for so doing though the vnity be broken Secondly Every secession from a true Church is not a breach of vnity for there is a negative secession as well as a positive one And the former may be lawfull in some cases wherein the latter is not warrantable Thirdly the case may be such in a positive secession as it may be disputable whether it be to be called a Schysme or not Mr. Cartwright declareth out of Theodoret how the Catholicks which maintayned the fayth of the Nicene Councill through affection to their teachers of whom they were unjustly deprived severed themselves into severall companies and there upon demands will the Answerer say that these meetings were Schysmaticall And then answereth If he doe he speaketh otherwise then Theodoret. 4. Nor argueth men to be of a Schysmaticall disposition Socrat. lib. 6. Cap 16. Soz lib 8. Ca 22.23 24.25.26 27. Fourthly Every positive secession or Schysme is not to be imputed to the Schysmaticall disposition of those who withdraw themselves but sometimes to the injurious dealing of others For instance Vnder Arcadius the Emperour a great Schysme was raysed in Constantinople whereof Socrates speaketh somewhat but Sozomen much more Who was the author of that Schysme Were those Orthodox Christians Bishops Presbyters and people who being incensed by the indignity of the thing not being able to beare the ill usage of so learned pious a man as Chrisostom then unjustly banished assembled a part forsooke the rest of the Church were I say these blamed as men of a Schysmaticall disposition No. the blame of it was layed upon Theophilus Bishop of Alexandria who out of Envy practised against Chrisostom prevayled so far that that holy man was cast out of his Bishoprick Theod lib 3. cap 5. dyed in banishment And in the case mentioned out of Mr. Cartwr if he meane that which Theodoret noateth Lib. 3. Cap. 5 both Theodoret and Eusebius blame not the Catholicks but Liberius for that who though he desired to make up the breach yet thorough his imprudence made it worse by too partially favouring the party of Eustathius with neglect of Meletius These things I noate not to incourage such dissentions the sad eveÌ„t both of the former which lasted 35 yeares of the latter which continued 85 yeares will I hope sufficiently forwarne the godly wise thereof but to warne others viz Pastors Classes to take heed least they the one by needles opposition against those whom the people reverence desire for their ministers the other by partial adhaering to the one party more then is meet and aequall make themselves the authours of disturbance dissention in the Church whereof they seeme to complaine alwayes remeÌ„bring that of Salomon Surely oppression maketh a wise man mad Eccle. 7 7. Fifthly Suppose the members whom J meane had only 5. It s lawfull to seeke the ordinances in a fayre way sought their dimission seeing no hope of the redresse of their greivances so joyned themselves without casting off coÌ„munion with that as no true Church to some other Church where they might be satisfyed in their lawfull desires would such a joyning with some other true Church in that City or a peaceable removing of themselves their families to some other place where they might be with more satisfaction content still professing and holding communion with that as a true Church would such an action have bene judged Schysmaticall This was that which I meant some spake And is this to accuse the Church of a Schysmaticall disposition Let the Reader judge 3. The third charge replyed upon To the Third It is not folly nor vaine credulity much lesse against modesty or conscience that I sayd certainely they would have fallen from him For it is but an humane certainty that I meant which may stand with the contingency of future events Had
that may be well sayd quod volenti non fit injuria and that quilibet potest recedere a suo jure yet the cases must be such as wherein a man is not tyed to mainetaine his liberty with so strong a bond as the bond of reason nature of the rules of Christian aequity and of the freedom of the law of God It is free for a man not to eate or drinck this or that but not to eate or drinck at all and so to starve himselfe it is not free and in this case volenti fit injuria Husbands parents and masters have by the very instinct of nature and aequity of Christs law freedom to provide for those that depend upon them and so must carefully use this theire freedom may not wholly put from themselves the care of their provision education c. nor give theire consent to the making of any law or to the bringing in of any custom whereby theyr freedom should be restrained or annihilated in this point Thus farr he Now to prevent all mistakes it will be convenient to answer a question or two that may be propounded upon this occasion Quest 1 What if a Minister be put in by a patron without the choyse of the people going before may such a minister be thought to have a lawfull calling Ans Though that act of the patron be not sufficient to make him a lawfull Pastor to that people yet the after consent of the people Dr. Ames â—n 2. Manduct by acceptance and submission may make it good As in wedlock the after consent of parents or partyes doth often make that a lawfull state of marriage which before without that was none and in government acceptance and submission doth make him a King which before was an Usurper though in their order these actions be rather consequents then causes of that calling So it is betweene minister and people Quest 2 What if the Church neglect to call a Minister or desire and consent upon one that is unmeet either for doctrine or manners In such cases Ans Mr. Cartwr 1. Reply p. 35. the ministers and Elders of other Churches round about should advertise first and afterwards as occasion should serve sharpely and severely charge them that they neglect not this care of electing a fitt one and that they forbeare such election of one unfitt or if it be made that they confirme it not by suffering him to excercise any ministry And if either the Churches round about doe fayle of this duety or the Church which is admonished rest not in their admonition then to bring it to the next Synod and if it rest not therein then the Prince or Magistrate which must see that notbing in the Churches be disorderly and wickedly done aught to drive that Church from that election to another which is convenient Thus Mr. Cartwright So that in his judgement other Churches have no power of hindring a faulty election but by admonition which power every Christian hath in another for his good Nor can the Magistrate forbid the choyse which the Church hath made or would make unlesse the man upon whom they pitch be so unfitt either for doctrine or manners that the making of such a choyse will be wickedly and disorderly done Having thus declared what we hold de jure populi concerning the Churches right in the choyse of their Ministers Now we come to enquire de facto whether their complaint be just concerning the injury wherewith they charge the Answerer in this particular taking the rise of ensuing passages from those words wherein he mentioneth my name after a provoking manner in this Section I leave it to their consciences to consider Ans pag. 19.3 whether now also they would not have kept silence if they could have brought in Mr. D. even according to this corrupt order used by us as they complaine of it To prove that the Answerer doth not behave himselfe as becommeth a Pastor in governement their first evidence is Reply that he depriveth the Church of that liberty and power which Christ hath given it in the free choyse of their Pastor Now a Church is as well deprived of their liberty in chusing when the men â—â—ply whom they desire are without sufficient cause shewen to the Church kept out as when men are without their approbation obtruded upon them They complaine of both these injuries of the first in this and the following Section of the second in the sixth Section That in this Section they complaine of the first of these injuries appeareth by the instances which they produce for proofe of it in the fifth Section So then their complaint in this and the next Section is that they are deprived of the liberty and power of the free choyse of their Pastor which Christ hath given them in that they are deprived of worthy men whom they have generally desired but have bene hindered that either they could not chuse them or having chosen could not injoy them and this hath bene done against them without sufficient cause alleadged against the men whom they have desired And the person whom they particularly charge with this unjury is the Answerer Let us now consider how he doth defend himselfe And this he endeavoureth to doe diverse wayes Pag. 18. Ans 1. First by putting the blame from himselfe upon the Classis and not upon their persons so much as upon the very government established in these Churches 1. Reply 1. Here it must be remembred that the Complainants produce the holy records of the ancient charter of priviledges which of old was granted unto particular Churches in this case Pag. 19. Ans 4 which also the Answerer himselfe coÌ„fesseth so clearely to warrant their claime and to justifye this plea that he hath as he sayth both publickly taught in the exposition of those 2 places Acts. 6.3 and 14.23 and doth still acknowledge that the free consent of the people is required to the lawfull calling of a Minister and afterwards he sayth Pag. 22. Ans 8. that to deprive the Church of that liberty power c. must be an heynous crime and no lesse then Sacriledge This crime how great soever it is the Reader will find that he chargeth upon the Classis how justly let him see nor will he be able to cleare himselfe of slandring the very government and order of discipline established in these Churches unlesse he can shew out of the Nationall Synods that it was established for an order in these Countryes that the Classes should have power to deprive the Churches of the Ministers whom they desire or have chosen without shewing sufficient cause for the Churches satisfaction which is the greivance complained of by these subâ—â—ibers 2. If it be not true of them the more heynous the accusation is the more greivous the slander is and so much the more greivous in him who is many wayes obliged to them and whose testimony against them will be
knife it is truely sayd the knife cut him or the man cut him to the knife it is ascribed but as to an instrument to the man as to the principall Agent To apply this I demand who caryed the matter to the Classis and would accept no wayes which I propounded for private accommodation The Answerer Who held it in the Classis when they were willing to have it ended in the Consistory suspecting the Elders would carry the matter for me and that the keeping of me out might not be imputed to himselfe The Answerer who intimated to some of them the danger of giving me liberty in that point when some of them inclined thereunto telling them it would encourage the Brownists and it would make the contrary practise of they re Church censured and that it would make their Church to be accounted as a sinck or common shore to receive what the English Church refuseth that he might irritate and incense them against me in this point Did not the Answerer Causa causae est causa causati I conclude If he was the cause moving them to it the complaint may justly be layed upon him that he was the principall cause of it A defence of Mr. Parker 3. In the third place he dealeth with Mr. Parker And now we are come to the Triarij in the three following instances the first whereof is this worthy man a man of much eminency above many famous lights in his time Jn this passage I will noate 3 things 1. some doubtfull expressions which should be cleared 2. some questions to be answered 3. the exception that this was 20. yeares since by the Answerer propounded But before I prosecute these particulars I haue some thing to say concerning this worthy man And I confesse when I did read this passage I did much wonder both in respect of the man himselfe and of the Answerer For this man his workes doe in part shew his worth concerning which a judicious censurer though differing from him in judgement about the Hierarthy testifyed that they are as full of learning as an egg is full of meate His workes which I haue seene are 1. a treatise against the Crosse 2. De descensu Christi ad inferos 3. De Politia Ecclesiastica One would haue thought that Holland should have esteemed the opportunity of setling such an one amongst them an unvaluable bessing And yet did the ministers of the Classis make some difficulty about admitting him And did the Magistrates signifie that they should cease from the pursuite of this buisenes I will hope it was ignorantly done the man being unknowne to them or they were abused by sinister informations But if they had rightly knowne him and yet so concluded my conclusion concerning them shall be that they are worthy to want such a man who so undervalued him For the Answerer Is it possible that he should hinder his setling there who sojourned at his house who was a member of his Church and an Elder as am informed about 2 yeares what could they object against him which the Answerer could not have answered Did they suspect him of inclining to Brownisme His booke of Ecclesiastical Policy cleareth him and a letter written by himselfe but published by some other in a pamphlet called the profane Schysme c. cleareth him of that imputation Did they suspect his dissaffection to Classes The same booke sheweth how farr he liketh and disliketh theire way which though it was not then printed the Answerer understood his judgment fully Or was there any thing else in the wind The searcher of all hearts knoweth and will manifest in due time In the meane space here is a sad complaint that the Church was deprived of him whom they admired when they heard him preach which was but a litle before his departure and with one consent desired to injoy as they re Pastor and colleague with the Answerer And the ancient inhabitants say that with a sad heart he left the citty but in a short space after his removeall thence to a Leager whither he was called to be they re preacher it pleased God to remove him from this unthanckfull world from all sorrowes and troubles to perfect joy and peace He died about 3 moneths after he went from Amsterdam at Doesburge in the County of Zâ—lphen whither he was called to preach to a Regiment of English The Church triumphant received him In the yeare 1613 as I am informed whoÌ„ a few out of needles jealousyes hindred from being intertained by this small hand-full a very litle parcell of the Church militant to they re unspeakeable losse and hindrance But I hasten to the three things to be noated in the answer 1. Certaine doubtfull termes in this answer should be cleared and they re meaning shewen As. 1. There was some difference about the manner of his call But he sayth not what was the manner of his call about which the difference was nor what nor betweene whom the difference about it was 2. I propounded the matter unto the Dutch Ministers who made some difficulty about it but be sheweth not about what they made difficultye nor what difficulty they made nor whether they made difficultyes as particular men in a prudentiall way for advise or joyntly concurring in a way of Classicall power binding the Church to rest in they re determination concerning Mr. Parkers unfitnes for that place 3. When Mr. Halius and Mr. Plancius c. were deputed c. I laboured to cleare the difficultyes objected by them but he concealeth what course he tooke for the clearing of those difficulties and whether Mr. Parker himselfe was consulted with for the removeall of them 4. Some while after a dutch Minister and an Elder coming to Mr. T. signifyed from the Burgomasters of this citty c. But he hideth it whether the Burgomasters sent these men and the reason why they came to Mr. T. and not to all the Elders in Consistory and why the Elders were not then sent for before the Burgomasters as in other cases they are to know they re pleasure Besides other evidence I have a coppy of the letter which our Eldership sent unto Mr. Parker but will that letter manifest that the Answerer did what lay in his power to further the calling of Mr. Parker or what else will it evidence 6. And there be some ancient Ministers of the Classis yet living whose testimony might giue further light thereto To what what need these darke expressions if things were carryed fairely and openly especially seing the Answerer it not went to be shye of telling any thing nor of wresting an interpretation of words or actions which was never meant nor thought if it may make for his advantage as this booke aboundantly witnesseth 2. Some questions also should be answered 1. Quaere Why it was not considered of how Mr. Parkers setling in that place might be effected before he was in a manner ingaged to another place 2.
was sufficiently able to discover the strength or weakenes of an Argument To the fourth Ans That he acknowledgeth him to have written diverse learned and worthy treatises 1. While the Answerer seemeth ingenuous in giving his adversary his due he is politick Reply in giving him no more then he must necessarily nor then he may safely without praejudice to himselfe for opposing his calling to be his colleague First so much he must necessarily acknowledge that he may decline the censure of all learned men in case he should doe otherwise For eveÌ„ his professed adversaries will doe so much And though all men should be so possessed with a spirit of envy that they would hide and blemish his worth yet his workes will prayse him to posterity which we will distribute under theyr severall heads thus Besides the booke mentioned by the authour his Demonstratio logica his Polemicall treatises which are extant are 1. that sinewous worke Bellarminus enervatus where the volumes of that daring Iesuit and Cardinall are so concisely answered as if Homers Iliads were in a nutshell and that exact peece in the Arminian controversies his Coronis besides those other disputes viz his Antisynodalia contraÌ„ Grevinchovium his 1 and 2 Manuduction his Reply and Triplication 2. His systematicall treatises his Catechisme which I find mentioned but have not seene it that worthy worke worthily called Medulla Theologiae the Marrow of Divinity and that practicall institution wherein he exceedeth not only Pontificians and Lutherans handling that argument but also his owne guide in that worke who died before he could finish it famous Mr. Perkins his Cases of conscience 3. His exegeticall treatises viz his Analysis upon the wholl booke of the Psalmes which he lived not to perfect to his mind his noates upon the 1. 2. Epistles of Peter and upon the catecheticall heads Secondly so much he may safely acknowledge without prejudice to himselfe for opposing his calling Any ingenous Protestant will acknowledge so much of many popish wrighters in theyr comtemplative and morall discourses both divine humane The Answerer will acknowledge so much of Mr. Ainsworth against whom he hath shewne himselfe more opposite then against this Dr. 2. If Dr. A have occasioned many to rejoyce justly and thanck God for his labours because they have bene of much good use in the Church of God I wish from my heart that the Answerer instead of sharpening his stile to cast reproach upon the memory of so worthy and learned a wrighter had imitated his example in publishing proffitable things that others might prayse God for the fruits of his labours and not such wrangling stuffe and unproffitable invectives which serve onely to greive the hearts of Gods people and for my part I would not have troubled my selfe to reade much lesse to answer if I had not bene thereunto compelled Secondly Was Dr. A. his judgement about the authority of Synods and Classis such an offence Non eadem sentire bonos de rebus ijsdem Incolumi licuit semper amicitiâ as all these worthy and learned treatises for which so many prayse God could not expiate Suppose they had differed in theyr opinions could no accommodation haue bene thought of Amongst good men it hath bene easy to joyne them together in one Church notwithstanding greater differences But what if Dr. Ames his judgement be sound in this matter As it will upon tryall be found to be Will it not then be easy to determine whose cause is most justifyable whose case is most eligible whether his who persiseth in the truth or his who resisteth it though I hope not maliciously in this particular To the fifth Ans Not to speake of other things c. he was generally held more fit to be a Professour of Divinity in Schooles c. I must crave leave to demand Reply what those things are that he omitteth to speake of And if he refuse to answer I may take liberty to supâ—ose that his opinion against promiscuous baptizing is one of those other things If so it is easy to gesse why he will not speake of that at this time 2. It is true 1. Cor. 12.28 Eph. 4.11.12 there are diversityes of gifts answereably diversityes of administrations but as one spirit is the authour of those gifts so one Lord is the authour of those administrations even our Lord Iesus who hath given Doctorall as well as Pastorall gifts for the service of his Church not only to that primitive Church but also to the end of the world 3. Nor is there such opposition betweene Churches Academyes that a man who is generally held fit for the one may not be judged fit for the other They who hold him fit for a Professour did in holding so account him orthodox and sound in his judgment And holding him so sound in his judgment that he is fit to be Professour in an Academy in these Countryes they must necessarily conclude that for the soundnes of his judgment he is fit much more to be a Pastor in any Church in this Country and so condemne the Answerer of injudiciousnes in saying he thinketh him not fit and of selfe-willednes in saying that he can not give his consent for him and of injury to the Church in depriving them of such a man who is generally held fit to be a Professour of Divinity in the Schooles both for learning and sound judgment 4. How fit was for the service of any Chvrch whether in a Pastorall or Doctorall way let his workes testify which declare him to have bene a man well fitted to aedifye the Church by words of knowledge which is the Doctorall way witnes those worthy disputes and Systems published by him and by words of wisdom also which is the Pastorall way witnes his expositon of the Psalmes and of boath the Epistles of Peter and his booke of conscience wherein he doeth that in divinity which Socrates is sayd to have done in Philosophy viz to bring it from heaven into mens houses by reducing all into practise which also he doeth in his uses or applications of Doctrine in his expositions of Scripture and in his practicall resolutions of cases in that booke All which being considered will evince this suggestion of unfitnes to be a vaine pretence that I say no worse 2. How ever whilest he continued fixed in his Academicall imployment thorough continuall scholastick exercises and disuse of publick preaching he had bene formerly lesse dexterous therein yet two things shewed him to be called unto the service of the Church in that worke 1. the strong inclination of his owne spirit thereunto even when his whole time was taken up in the other taske For he hath often bene heard to professe that he would willingly travaile many miles to preach a sermon being as it seemeth like a nurse who is in paine of the fullnes of her breasts for want of some to suck them 2. He no sooner was resolved to joyne himselfe
the Dutch Classis upon the English preachers in other townes in Holland How commeth it to be so speciall a worke of a Ministers calling in Amsterdam 3. This is not urged as a speciall worke of a ministers calling to the French walloon Churches in that Citty How comes it to be so to the English 4. The Answerer did not account it a speciall worke of his calling to sit in the Dutch Classis a good while after his comming to Amsterdam when he laboured to set up an English Classis though afterwards he opposed the same thing when it tooke effect by Mr. Forbes his labour How comes it now to be a speciall worke of his calling which then was not 5. The Answerer hath bene heard to say that he commeth sometimes from the Classis greived troubled in his mind because when weighty matters are debated he cannot sufficiently expresse his mind in Dutch And well may it greive him to supply the place of a Pastor there if he find him selfe unable to performe one speciall worke of his calling To wind up all Seing the Answerer maketh that an especiall worke of the Ministers calling to his Church in Amsterdam which God doeth not make so in any place of Scripture nor the Magistrates doe make so neither there to other Nations nor in other Cityes to other English Churches and seing by that pretence they are deprived of many worthy men which they might have injoyed had not this bene so insisted upon by him and seing the Answerer doth urge it more strictly then the Magistrates they propounding it but as a matter of conveniency but he pressing it as a matter of necessity haue not the members just cause to complaine of this as a greivance Nor will this free him from blame that he is but one and claymeth but one voyce seing he hindreth that what agreeth not with his mind can not be ended in the Church but is carryed to the Classis where he can strengthen himselfe by helpe of those whom he gayneth to his party by raysing causeles suspitions of some factions or Shysmaticall intentions in his people or in the Consistory which they receive from him and report to the Magistrates who at they re intreaty interpose to prevent some imagined distractions which may fall in the English Church whereas if they had rightly bene informed of the wholl truth they would have seene the request of the Church to be reasonable and just and the opposition made against it to be injurious and blameworthy Ans To the eighth To that which they say concerning the Lords fighting against his course hitherto by the great unfitnes of those c. who haue preached hitherto by his nomination or consent in sending for he answereth 2 things 1. That they are guilty of rash judgement and of taking Gods name in vayne or reproaching the Lord and laying iniquity upon the Lord and of making him a partaker with them for maintenance of they re sinne 2. For the men to whose sending for he hath given consent that they are not unfit but learned and worthy men one of them he nameth the other 2 he concealeth This passage shall be breifly examined and replyed upon To the first Reply I am so farr from justifying any thing done or spoken amisse even by my freinds that this Answerer intimateth it to be a just reward of Mr. B. inordinate affection to me that I censure the printing of that pamphlet to be an injury That which I did in the simplicity and uprightnes of my heart not knowing that Mr. B. was the publisher in way of witnes bearing to the truth and in favour of him he wresteth and perverteth to contrary ends This dealing of his in that particular may make me wary of uttering my thoughts in a like case when another lyeth to watch and catch all advantages against me and them Therefore what I account amisse in this expression on theyr part I will conceale and also passe by the distemper of his spirit which upon this occasion venteth it selfe The comparing of the reply to the former Section and this will giue some light whereby the Reader may discerne 1. whether that which they have disliked and complained of be not a just greivance 2. whether in that case such an expression deserve so heavy a censure Here he instanceth in three persons sent for by him and nameth but one of them viz Mr. Balmford whom he mentioneth in the first place In the passages concerning him I noate three things 1. Vpon a third and fourth review A defence of Mr. Balmford I wondred why so litle was sayd by the Answerer in the just acknowledgment of Mr B. sufficiency especially seing the next whose name he concealeth is honoured by him with the prayse of speciall gifts of learning piety and utterance the third whose name he also suppresseth is stiled a man of speciall noate for his learning and labours in the Church of God But when I consider the men him upon knowledge and them by gesse and report of others I seeme to apprehend the cause of it which was not that Mr. Balmford was inferiour to either of those men in the desart of such attributiōs but that if he had freely done him right in so publick a declaration thereof it might have reflected more honour upon him then he can be cōtent should be devolved upon one whose judgment did at all differ from his and agree with his opposites as he accounteth them in the point controverted betweene us 2. Yet when it may serve for a staffe wherewith to beate the Complainants he addeth thus much His great unfitnes is they re great slander that avouch it unles they could prove it Neither himselfe nor they will be ever able to prove Mr. B. unfit for that Church but both he and they might have blessed God with much thanckfullnes for such a mercy if they had injoyed him And certainely it will be found worthy to be called a great slander if any shall impute great unfitnes to him The place where he hath diverse yeares executed his pastorall function constantly painfully proffitably and with good acceptance is incomparably before Amsterdam both in the eminency of the Auditours and in they re ability to judge of his sufficiency the deserved approbation of him and affection to him so frequently expressed on all fitting occasions by all sorts of hearers both resorting thither and residing there are in stead of letters of recommondation to stop the mouths of any that shall mussitate or whisper any such disparadging intimations and to convince them of great slander But now the question will be at whose dore the slander must be layd For the Complainants refuse to father it and doe retort the accusation of a great slander upon the Answerer himselfe and professe the great unfitnes which they meant was intended by them concerning others partly in respect of the language and they name severall men against whom they except in
crosse proclaimed to all the world both his glory and theire shame As for the Answerer I wish his age may be crowned with the honour of righteousnes upon his unfeinged repentance of these injuries the guilt whereof he hath bene plunged into I hope by the violence of temptation and not by a setled and habituall evill bent of his spirit out of which my prayer is unfeignedly that God would recover him speedily And so I proceed to examine his answer in this Section and the conclusion of the former against which I have diverse exceptions 1. Except That he sayth the things here declared have bene occasion of the strife raysed up in this place This I except against as it is indefinitely expressed For it may be universally understood as if those things had occasioned all the strife and in that sense it is untrue For there hath bene great strife raysed up amongst them about the rejecting of other men whom I praefer above my selfe before my name was mentioned amongst them which is not yet ended as appeareth in the complaints 2. I affirme that whosoever hath bene the occasion his unjust opposition against the men whom the Church hath justly desired hath bene the cause of the strife in this place 2. Except That he sayth Whilest I was buisy in wrighting c. another complaint is written against me and secretly dispersed amongst our people My exception against this expression is double 1. That he calleth it my complaint which title I doe not give it nor is it proper it being rather an account then a complaint being intended for theyr satisfaction who desired to know the trueth of passages not for redresse of injuries which I suffer without expectation of helpe from any man 2. that he blameth the secret dispersing of it whereas he should rather acknowledge my tender care of his reputation who would not have it divulged though for myne owne clearing further then it was necessary for the rectifying of they re understanding and judgment who had bene praejudiced against me by his misinformations And if this were a fault in me yet he hath cause to lay his hand upon his mouth who not only compelled me to doe it but himselfe sent a larger wrighting without any provocation from me to a partiall freind of his Mr. B. at Newburgh in England which was no doubt by him secretly dispersed where it pleased him 3. Except That he sayth I have dealt very injuriously with him not only in reporting many things but in sundry inferences c. this is a trick of policy to praepossesse his credulous Reader with a forestalled opinion praejudice against what I wright but the wise-hearted will compare the Reply with the answer in every Section impartially and so judge righteous judgment 4. Except That he sayth most of my complaints are for substance the very same that these Complainants have framed as if the same pen had written both As if he would intimate that I am the authour of those complaints whereas I am perswaded that in his owne heart he doth acquit me thereof both in observation of some passages in that wrighting which any man may conceive not to be penned by me and upon his strict examination of some of the Subscribers and of those 3. whom he exempteth from the number of Subscribers having as he sayth acknowledged theire fault therein by whom if he could have understood that I had bene guilty the Reader should have found it I beleive either in great letters or in some remarkeable marginall noate expressed and aggravated to the uttermust yet he so framed his answer to theyres as if the whole booke were an answer to me only whereas my wrighting was in some of they re hands a good space of time before theyres was framed whence all that can probably be inferred is that they recieved some information about things that concerned my selfe from thence or from my owne words And whatsoever more is inferred from thence is to be returned back to his owne needlesse jealousy from whence it came 5. Except That he sayth Each of my threefold wrighting is stayned with untrueth and matter of reproach but when he commeth to shew it that his Reader may be convinced hereof he flyeth off from two of the wrightings at the first onset which for the present he leaveth to the consideration of the Classis Yet that he may not seeme to be wholly out of heart he sayth He will so answer the third wrighting as that he shall take them in by the way c. For me he may freely take his choyse whether he will answer all or none and whether in every particular or in grosse but he had dealt more fairely if he had forborne to passe his sentence it being his worke to give evidence not sentence but it seemeth he durst not rest upon the aequanimity of the Reader who is now made his judge but would condemne it least else it might have passed altogether uncondemned And seing he undertaketh to answer the third wrighting in every particular we shall with Gods assistance examine his answer and the narration which he maketh of particulars touching my calling hither with the issue thereof which if it be faythfully done may give much light to helpe the Readers in judging righteously else it will like an ignis fatùus misleade them from the trueth SECT 8. Concerning my sending for out of England Ans TO prove my sending for over to be disorderly he sayth in his printed booke that such as procured my comming out of England did not according to good order communicate the matter with those whom it specially concerned who in all such weighty and publick affayres of the Church should by they re counsail and direction have gone before others therein The same thing in his letter sent to Nuburgh he expresseth thus that I being sent for privately by a particular person without his knowledge and without advise and consent of they re Eldership came over before I was called Reply 1 My end in comming into these parts was to serve the present opportunity for a few moneths in helping that Church with the fruits of my labours in their extreme necessity having preserved my liberty not for love of ease but for the workes sake in hope that after some small time of absence the displeasure conceived against me would be abated and my returne to myne owne country be made more safe and not to be Pastor in Amsterdam unlesse it should appeare by a very strong cleare call from the joynt desire of Pastor and people upon very safe and satisfying termes that God to whose disposall I wholly committed my selfe should designe me to that place as the only station wherein he would serve himselfe of me the remaynder of my dayes In which case my heart was prepared to obey his call to any part of the world and so there and not otherwise This being my purpose as he that brought me over and others
he slandereth me before No marvell if diverse learned and godly Ministers being they re neighbours in this country have bene loath to shew themselves in this place c. least they should seeme to offer themselves unto this calling For they knew the Answerers disposition and spirit and the contentions which have thereby bene in this place which if I had knowne so as now I doe no perswasions should have drawne me thither And it is very likely that I had stayed at Rotterdam till the Eldership had sent for me as Mr. H. did if the necessity of the place had not hurryed me sooner to prevent the shutting up of the Church dores which as I have bene told and the event shewed would come to passe the next Lords day if my comming prevented it not Yet two of the Elders with some other members of the Congregation met me at Harlem and accompanied me to Amsterdam tooke care for my accomodation with a convenient intertaynment and the joy that was generally expressed soone after my being there was knowne shewed a great desire in the members that they might injoy me And the Answerer himselfe at that time acknowledged Gods good providence in my being there at that time and joyntly with the Elders who were then present when I first visited him intreated my helpe the Lords day following and so long as my time would permit and they re need should require To the second praesumption that they that sent for me and I. C. that fetched me over did not seeke me but for 3 or 4 moneths J answer 1. Suppose theyr desire was to injoy me longer will it thence follow that I yeelded for longer time 2. By what hath bene formerly said it appeareth sufficiently that I agreed with him for no longer time which himselfe is able and ready to testifye if it be required To the third praesumption that the freind which by an open and unsealed letter which I brought unto him from London intreated him to receive me for a fellow helper did not desire that for 3 or 4 moneths only Answer I thinck never did Laban search so narrowly Iacobs stuff to find his Idolls as this Answerer doeth to find an untrueth in my assertion To what end is this brought in If he thinck or would perswade others that I procured that freinds letter that I might obtaine the place he is much deceived For neither stands it with my judgment to seeke a place much lesse by such private recommendations nor need I the letters of any private freind having a more publick testimony And how litle I minded that letter may appeare in this that I know not that it was unsealed and if indeed it was unsealed I know not at all what was written in it It is likely that knowing the authour of it to be my approved freind and one that hath deserved well of the Answerer I supposed he would commend me to him affectionately to be lovingly intertayned used by him in a strange Country and so tooke no further heed to it But what if that freind did intreate him to receive me for a fellowhelper Will it follow thence that I saught it who seeth not the vanity of these pretences To the fourth praesumption That it was not likely that after 3 or 4 moneths preaching amongst them I could easily be dismissed and they re labour and care of seeking and calling another must be interruped if not wholly broken off Answer 1. Grant all this to be true will it thence follow that I saught it 2. Grant that at the end of 3 or 4 moneths I had accepted of a call to that place which it is probable I should have done if it had bene offered upon safe conditions rather then to live without publick imployment will it thence follow that I inordinately desired or basely or unworthily saught it or unwarrantably or without a calling intruded my selfe 3. what hindrance could my mere preaching there be to they re seeking or calling another if I should refuse it Let the indifferent Iudge To what he sayth in the two following answers about the necessity of my knowing the state of the Dutch Churches whet her I stayed here or not I Answer that even for that Reason my comming over was needfull For no mans word or letters could make that so well knowne to me as myne owne observation experience hath done But the suppositiō whereupon he groundeth that opinion I doe not approve For in some cases a good conscience suffers a man to be neutrall viz in those things which he is not bound to know or practise wherein he hath wanted occasiō or meanes of full informatiō And what hurt can that man be supposed to doe by private conference who suspendeth his judgment and determineth neyther way Are not these passages mere roapes of sand Lastly Whereas he seemeth to doubt in the beginning of this Section whether I came not over with a discordant mind I professe in simplicity of my heart that I came over with a reverent esteeme of him and with confidence that I should reape more fruits of his brotherly love then I have received and was farr from any purpose of raysing contention which I naturally abhorr or suspition that I should have met with such contentions as I have bene troubled with which if I had foreseene J should never have come to Amsterdam Yet I doe not repine at but contentedly submit to that good hand of Divine providence which brought me hither and is pleased this way to trye me and doe with a childelike submission and reverence in my measure kisse the rod in my Fathers hand even when I lament the unkindnes of my Elder brother which yet I would not have published if he would have suffered me to be silent The Answer to the eleventh Section examined Of the private conference had with me after my comming over IN this Section three things are to be considered 1. his gird at Mr. Hook 2. His partiall and defective report of a conference betweene us 3. his pretended answer to some passages in my third wrighting These we will examine severally and breifely For the first 1. the great disturbance which here he seemeth to impute to Mr. Hook is to be charged upon himselfe and his owne violent and unjust opposition against Mr. Hook and the Church and not at all to Mr. Hook unles by accident as Paul might be said to be an occasion of the disturbance at Ephesus Ast. 19.22 the cause whereof was Demetrius his companions 2. It would be knowne how I seemed to accord with him and to dislike Mr. Hook opinions in generall If he meane by my my silence I confesse I heard him speake some things at which I was silent being not called to speake For himselfe said that in some of their differences he would not inquire after my opinion being perswaded that I was therein cleare And in conclusion pitched upon two questions 1. Concerning the power and
vertue of the promise I will be thy God and the God of thy seed were accounted in the number of Abrahams children before circumcision without which circumcision did not appertaine to them According to the Scriptures which declare Davids confidence about the salvation of his infant that died before the eighth day 2. Sam. 12 23. in which it should have bene circumcised and annexeth damnation to not beleiving not to not being baptised as Luther accutely noated out of those words He that beleiveth and is baptised shall be saved Mark 16 16. but he that beleiveth not shall be damned But this practise seemeth to build this up againe For if the necessity of it be such as Gods order must be violated rather then the infant not baptised who will not suspect that they account it simply necessary to salvation And if the plea which is ordinarily used by them Cal. instit lib. 4. cap. 15. Sect. 20. 21. 22 that Baptisme is not of such necessity as that Gods order should be broken for it be good against baptisme by private persons and by midwives and nurses c. Why may it not serve in this case also Fourthly The efficacy of Baptisme 4. Council Trid Can 8. Confess art 34. Catech. q. 72. 73. when it is made a naturall cause or instrument sanctifying those that partake of it by the worke done is an errour which these Churches haue destroyed when they ascribe the working of grace to God as the sole efficient cause and authour of it and account the Sacraments signes and seales and morall instruments signifying and sealing and so exhibiting it instrumentally in the right use of them which I will explaine in the words of that learned Dr Whittaker Dr. Whitt prelect de sacra in gene Ca. 1. pa. 62. 63. because his exposition seemeth to be more cleare then many in reference to the true state of the question betweene the Pontificians and the Orthodox We say they are instruments taking the name largely because God useth them in bestowing grace upon us ye we doe not meane that they are instrumēts as our Adversaries doe as if God were so tyed to thē as not to conferr grace without them as an artificer cannot make a bed or bench without a saw or hatchet nor that they are able to worke any thing of themselves by any hiddē vertue proper to them and inhaerent in them as is in a medicine for procuring bodily health but because in the right use of them God worketh a nourishing and increasing of grace Therefore the Sacraments worke nothing by the thing done no not in infants For infants are not therefore partakers of grace only because they are baptised yet neither are they baptised in vaine because they are baptised unto future fayth repentance because they are members of the Church and holy by the Covenant and therefore the signe of the Covenant is not to be denyed them Thus he witnesseth against that efficacy that papalls ascribe to the Sacrament joyneth with these Churches in destroying it according to the (a) Heb. 2.4 Rom. 3.28 Cap. 4.3 4.6.10 Bell. de Sacr bapt lib. C p. 5. Whittak de bapt cap. 2. de necess bapt pag. 237. 238. Scripture But this practise seemeth to build it up againe For whereas our Divines say that baptisme is profaned whē it is administred to the uncleane the popish wrighters tell us that baptisme is not thereby profaned but that it doeth sanctifye them And upon this ground Bellarmine sayth that baptisme may be given to those that pertaine not to Christ To whom Dr. Whittaker answereth This were true if Baptisme were a physicall cause of grace For grace is not profaned when it is given to the uncleane but it sanctifyeth them to whom it is given else he demandeth of Bellermine why may not infidells of yeares be baptised if they will suffer themselves to be baptised yea though they should professe that they doe not beleive in Christ if baptisme will sanctifye them But all men deny that And why so Because they belong not to Christ Therefore sayth he Baptisme aught not to be given to any that are not in Christ I will not enlarge this point by speaking of the ignorant conceit of some that baptisme is their Christendom and that they are made Christians by baptisme whereas we have shewen that they must be Christians before baptisme else they may not be baptised Fifthly The loose positions whereby Libertines are hardned 5. Confess Belg. Art 28. 29. in refusing to joyne themselves in doctrine and discipline with any visible Church are errours which these Churches in their doctrine have destroyed by professing that every man that would be saved of what ranck or condition soever is bound to joyne himselfe with the Church of God and to subject himselfe to the doctrine and discipline thereof though with hazzard of his life c. according to the Scriptures (b) Ps 65.4 133.3 Mat. 18.17 Mat. 18.17 Rev. 1.13 1. Cor. 5.12 Heb. 10.24.25 1. Cor. 12 25.27 But this practise buildeth it up againe As appeareth in the exāple of that Libertine who tooke encouragment to persist in his course by a sermon wherein the Answerer affirmeth that the infants of such may lawfully be baptised though the parents refused to joyne with any Church whereupon he came home resolving as himselfe told diverse never to joyne with any Church whilest he lived though he had bene as he said 20 yeares before in doubts about his condition Sixthly 6. Catech. quest 85. The opinion of Erastus against Ecclesiasticall excommunicatiō is an errour which the doctrine of these Churches hath destroyed by affirming that the power of excommunication belongeth to the Church according (c) Numb 19.13.20 Mat. 18.15 Mat. 7.6 1. Cor. 5.5.6.11 2. Thes 3.6 11. to the Scriptures But this practise doth build it up againe when they not only administer this Sacrament promiscuously to all that are brought but also plead for it by some of the Arguments which Erastus produced against that For First Erastus alleadgeth Iohns admitting the very worst men to his baptisme viz the Pharises and Sadduces whereunto both Beza and Mr. Cartwright answer to the same purpose as I did some with whom I argued against this custom that Iohn admitted none to his baptisme but those that professed repentance and amendment of life Therefore they are said to be baptised of Iohn in Iordan confessing their sinnes which Mat. 3.6 Mark 1.4 5. after the manner of the Hebrewes signifyeth more then a bare acknowledgment that they were sinners even a profession of their imbracing the doctrine of remission of sinnes by Christ and a promise of amendment Psal 51. Dan. 9.4 Luke 15 Luke 18 Such confessions were Davids Daniels the Publicans Prodigalls As for the Pharises and Sadduces sayth Mr Cartwright which came in Hypocrisy to be baptised deriding the grace of God I utterly deny that Iohn baptised them yea that
his call to a pastorall charge 2. Because the five Ministers propounded their private judgment nakedly without shewing their grounds from the Scripture so that they seemed to me to deale by their authority not by argument Now the mere authority that is the bare affirmation of godly and learned men is lesse to be regarded then their reasons and yet their reasons without the word are of no value in Divine matters For all men are lyars apt to be deceived and so to deceive impossibility of erring being proper to the Scriptures which therefore are only fit to be the Canon or rule for the ordering of Ministers concerning their wholl behaviour in the house of God 1. Tim. 3.14.15 Mat. 21.13 Mat. 12.3 Hence Christ and his Apostles 1. reproved disorders by Scripture so Christ did the profaning of the Temple 2 justified things well done by Scripture so Christ did the pulling of the eares of corne 3. resolved answered questions by Scripture so Christ did Mat. 19.4 Mat. 15.4 Mat. 22.29.32 Acts. 2.1.34 Act. 15. in the case of Divorce 4. confuted errours by Scriptures so Christ did the Pharisees and Sadduces 5. confirmed and proved Doctrines by Scriptures so Peter proved the resurrection and ascention of Christ c. 6. gave advice and made orders not by their owne authority but by the direction of the Holy Ghoast which immediate assistance seing we want light must be fetched from Scripture if we will guide others safely by our counsayle without which learned men may erre have erred and doe erre therefore their judgments must be tryed and judged by it and no further be rested in then they agree with it According to that of Ierom Quod ex Scripturâ non habet authoritatem câadem facilitate contemnitur quâ acceptatur Hieron in Math. 23. That which hath not authority from the Scripture is as easily despised as received Seaventh pretence It is the custom of these Churches which all 7. Pretence that are admitted by the Classis doe promise to observe This pretence the Answerer insinuateth in that which he sayd about the forme of Mr. B. calling Ans which was to minister the word and the dependances thereof according to the order of these Reformed Churches and especially with these which are combined with the Classis of Amsterdam Concerning that expression some thing more may be noated in the examination of the seventeenth Section and when we come to the eight and twentith Section For the present Reply we will oppose besides all considerations which have bene formerly alleadged or may be heareafter two things to this custom to prove that this cannot be the order of these Reformed Churches but must be only a disorder crept in and prevayling by mens ossitancie and sleepines which is Sathans best opportunity for the sowing of tares which I shall demonstrate thus First oppose the Confessions of the Reformed Churches to this custom Ham. Confess Sect. 13. and it will be found that they cannot stand together for when they described qui sunt baptisandi who are to be baptised speaking of infants they say they must be the children of persons that are in the Covenant (a) Helvet poster cap. 13. of the people of God (b) Helvet prior art 21. et Bohem c. 21. of holy parents (c) Gallic Art 35. of those to whom the promises belong (d) Belgic Art 34. who are inserted into the Church and only them (e) Saxon confess Art 13. the true children of Abraham (f) Suevit cap. 17. such as are in alike condition as they were who had right to Circumcision amongst the Iewes Now compare with this doctrine of the Reformed Churches the practise of that place as it hath bene declared and it will appeare that their owne Confessions plead against this custom And how can that be called the order of these Reformed Churches which agreeth not with the doctrine of these reformed Churches Secondly oppose the Canons of the Synods of these countryes to this custom and the thing will be manifested In a Synod held at Dort in the yeare 1578. Art 59. It was referred to the judgment of the Ministers and Elders whether there be any lawfull cause brought by any why the child to be baptised should be deferred from Baptisme and in Art 61. It was ordered that the fathers before they bring their children to baptisme shall goe to the Minister or an Elder that the Church may have notice of the partyes that are to be baptised And in Art 62. They are appoynted to acquaint the Minister what name they will give the child and to shew him how they will educate the child in that Religion In a Synod held at Middleborough in the yeare 1581. the 22. question It is demanded whether the parents of children doe goe first to the Minister or Elders and certify them that they desire to have their children baptised before to see whether they judge it meet to receive such witnesses or not In Art 75. It is questioned whether the Minister should be rebuked when he baptiseth children whose parents appoynt witnesses which stand not for religion Ans The parents shall be wonted as much as is possible that they first speake with the Ministers before they present their children to baptisme c. In a Synod held at Vtricht in the yeare 1590. Art 1. It is decreed that Baptisme is to be administred according to the ordinance of Christ without Godfathers to bind themselves only the father and mother to promise to trayne it up in the Religion Now compare the Canons of these Synods with the custom of that place and they will be found so farr to varye from it that it will appeare not to be the order of these reformed Churches but a disorder crept in as we have said before I will conclude this examination of pretences used in defence of this unwarrantable custom with the judicious censure of Dr. Ames who knew well the miscarriage of this disorder in these countryes De conscientia Cap. 27.4 Incuria illa idcirco neutiquam potest excusari quâ promiscuè sine disermine admittuntur quicunque et a quibuscunque offeruntur Therefore that carelesnes can by no means be excused whereby all promiscuously and without difference are admitted to baptisme by whomsoever they are presented And so much shall suffice for the examination of the twelfth Section and for declaration of the grounds whereupon I durst not bind my selfe by promise or otherwise to rest in the judgment of those five Ministers that is to conforme to the custom of this place in administring Baptisme promiscuously to all that are presensed and by whomsoever The Answer to the 13. Section examined Of the order agreed upon in the Consistory THat which here he calleth an order will upon examination be found very farr from accommodating me I will wright it downe as I received it from the Elders out of the noate which I have in
preaching as myne should have bene if this agreement had stood Againe suppose after the expiration of that convenient time I had accepted of the pastorall calling how could I have bene a Resistant to him in Baptisme if either the Dutch Ministers could in that time have convinced me of the lawfullnes of that custom in which case J should have yeelded to it or if I could have procured the laying aside of that question by their consent with me in establishing those meanes which I propounded for accommodation Fourthly That hereby the calling of another minister would be hindred But 1. the event sheweth the contrary For that convenient time which the Elders would have given me was but 12 moneths Now though upon this pretence the Answerer opposed that yet those 12 moneths were spent before they had any and 9 moneths more before one was setled with them 2. My purpose in that proposition was to worke in that time for the peaceable setling of any faithfull man whom they should make choyse of if I saw not greater likelihood of my comfortable setling there then hitherto had appeared Wherein my true intent was to prevent the trouble and procure the peace of the Church as much as in me lay The fifth pretenc◠is coincident with the fourth and answered in that Sixtly The Classis would have bene offended which had formerly disallowed such an agreement about Mr. H. But 1 consider as great a matter as this hath bene done there without the leaue of the Classis when the Answerer had a mind to it Was not Mr. D for a yeare and more assistant to the Answerer in the same Church in preaching without leave or consent of the Classis 2. If the Classis would be offended for this it would be an offence taken but not given For what though they had formerly disallowed such an agreement of the Elders about the intertayning of M. Hook May not the Church doe such a thing without their allowance What rule is transgressed thereby If any Let the Answerer shew it If none then the Classis disallowed that act and would be offended at this causelesly 3. At most this would have bene an offence but to the spirits of the Classis who would have bene angry at it as a neglect of them only not as a sinne against God But the hindering of this agreement by their Pastor and the Classis is an offence to the consciences of some of the Church who are greived at it as a sinne against God both in the Pastor and the Classsis who have hereby streightned the liberty and weakened the power which Christ hath given the Church in procuring such spirituall helpes for their aedification as they find proffitable and desire with a generall consent especially there being no danger of haeresy and schysme whereby themselves or other Churches should be infected thereby Now compare these two offences together and it will appeare that the latter offence in this case was more carefully to be heeded and prevented then the former The seventh and last pretence is that he esteemed this agreement as an act of intrusion for me which he needed not to have feared nor would have by so injurious a course prevented if he had knowne me as he might have done by my wholl carriage in this buisenes Himselfe reproacheth me for standing so much upon his desiring me and now he feareth least I had some purpose of intruding my selfe How will these stand together One while he telleth the Reader that I would not accept the call another while that I will not be dismissed A strange case that I am so averse that they can not get me in and yet so intruding that they cannot get me out By this it may appeare that his spirit was much distempered by needles Iealousyes and groundles surmises which in these passages have caused much disquietment to himselfe and disturbance to others The 3. instance And that it may appeare that I wrong him not in saying thus his owne words about the third instance which they bring to prove that he depriveth the Elders of their power in governmēt for the good of the Church declare the same For speaking of Mr. Weld whom they accused him for hindring from preaching without leave of the Classis though he professed he had nothing against him he telleth the Complainants that he had some thing against Mr. Weld If they desire to know what he readily telleth them and all the world that he had something against his behaviour in generall which was an offence and trouble unto him It had need to be some great matter some will thinck that so farr sett him off from Mr. Weld as he there intimateth To prevent all wondring at the matter he roundly relates more dislikes then one But if you come to examine them they will appeare to be grounded upon needles jealousyes in his owne mind For his first dislike was because Mr. Weld refused to declare himselfe and to shew his opinion touching their present controversyes And have not others carryed themselves in the same manner as well as he which were greater strangers to him then Mr. Weld being not of his nation whom yet he hath not only willingly received to preach but also bene willing to have joyned with him in the pastorall office His second dislike of Mr. Weld was that he saw him most familiar with those that were his cheifest opposites So then there was opposition amongst them before I came and this opposition was raysed to such an height that the Answerer accounted it a trouble and offence to him that any minister should be most familiar with those whom he accounted his opposites and that upon feare least Mr. Weld should strengthen and animate them against him he was unwilling to have him preach That this feare may not seeme altogether causeles he telleth his Reader how Mr. H. preached against that in the afternoone which he taught in the fore noone The truth concerning this passage I have heard from diverse witnesses and have seene the noates of boath their sermons as they were taken by those that heard and doe find so farr as I can discerne by what I have heard or read that the Answerer tooke offence at Mr. H causelesly for that and that Mr. H. was called and in a manner compelled to say what he did at that time But that I may returne to Mr. W. was the Answerers feare of him retayned in his owne breast No he telleth us in his second answer that he desired the counsaile of the Dutch Consistory about this matter and their advise was that he should bring it to the Classis Thus the Answerer is troubled the Dutch Consistory is troubled the English Church also is troubled and all about his feare of Mr. Weld But was this feare well grounded was there sufficient cause for it Let himselfe speake and he will tell us yea he hath already told us in his third answer that upon further conference with Mr.
What power that is which is due to them over particular Churches by vertue of that combination For the first The combination of particular Churches in Classes and Synods is either such a consociation of them as is betweene aequalls or such a subordinatioÌ„ of them as is betweene unaequalls The first is by way of counsaile or brotherly direction The second is by way of command or masterly subjection This we condemne as being the first step whereby the Pope ascended into the chayre of pestilence and a mere inlet for tyranny to invade and usurpe the Churches right The other is approved by the practise of the most ancient Churches and by good reason First The practise of the Churches of the first age is cleare for a free seeking and communicating of mutuall helpe by letters and messengers as occasion required and that not onely in Scripture (a) Act. 15 1. Cor. 16. ult Revel 1. et 2. but also in Ecclesiasticall hystoryes (b) Euseb lib. 3. Cap. 32. Cyprian lib. 3. Cap. 13. Catal. test ver lib. 9. p. 109. 110. And Cyprian expresly declareth that the Churches in his time did give mutuall helpe to one another ex charitate non ex subjectione in way of charity not of subjection And the Epitomatour of the Centurists fitly expresseth that combination which was in those primitive times among the Churches by the communion of the members in the body and concludeth that those actions and offices of their mutuall care one for another did not ex imperio aut subjectione quâdam proficisci sed ex charitate aedificandi studio i. e. did not arise from any authority which one did excercise over another subjecting it to the rest but out of love and indeavour of mutuall aedifying Secondly The reasons whereby it may be proved are weighty M. Parker hath saved me the labour of this taske by laying downe six Arguments for the proofe of this in those his learned and elaborate treatises concerning Ecclesiasticall policy as 1 From the ground of this combination of Churches Dc eccles pol. lib. 3. Cap. 22. p. 329. which is love not obedience 2. From the forme of it which is communion and consociation c. 3. From the matter of it which are Churches who are aequall among themselves as members in the body which have a vicissitude of offices mutually to be performed among themselves 4. From the object of it which is res communis that which concerneth all the Churches in common 5. From the outward manner of proceeding which is eollatione conciliorum by conference and communication of counsells 6. From the end of this combination which is not to receive the mandates of other Churches but their consent counsail and approbation The second thing to be considered in thesi is what power or authority that is which is due to Classes over particular Churches by vertue of their combination First More generally This will best appeare by a right understanding of the nature of that kind of assocication or combination as it hath bene in the words immediately preceding expressed For answerable to those two kinds of combination there is a twofold power in the persons so combined whereby they may justly doe such things which others cannot who are not by such a relation thereunto qualifyed Thus to the unaequall fellowship which is betweene superious and inferiours as parents and children Masters and servants Princes and people appertayneth jus Rectorium the power of government Hugo Grot de jure pacis et belli p. 4. but to that other society which is betweene aequalls as brethren Citizens freinds confaederates belongeth jus aequatorium such a power of communicating mutuall helpe as may stand with the preservation of their severall libertyes and mutuall aequality safe and untouched And no other power is due to them quâ tales If they assume any other it is a mere usurpation and transgression of the bounds and limits of their combination Secondly More particularly to apply this to Classes which are sociall combinations of many Churches for mutuall helpe it must be considered 1. What is the object of this combination 2. What power it hath in reference to that object First The object of classicall combinations of Churches is res communis i. e. that which concerneth all the Churches or many of them in that division either of it selfe or by accident Beza declareth Synods to be necessary for 3 causes De triplic Epist pag. 91. 9. 3. 1. to preserve consent 2. to provide common remedyes against common evills by common counsail 3. to helpe those who thinck themselves injuryed by the judgment of particular presbyteryes The Synod of 3 nations in Can. 35 reduceth all to 1. matters of doctrine 2. matters of order and ecclesiasticall policy 3. particular facts To be breife these things are matters either of fayth or of fact whether brought to them or observed by them 1. In matters of fayth their resolution is required not their jurisdiction their counsayl not their command it being the end of the Churches combination in such matters onely to communicate their gifts in fellowship together to find out the sense of the Scripture more clearely and certainely for the satisfaction of all then it could have bene done by any apart from the râ—st 2. Matters of fact are either common or personall Personall matters doe primarily belong to the particular Churches and onely to them so farr as they are proper but if by accident they become common they fall under the deliberation of many Churches thus combined as in causâ lapsorum in the cause of those who fell off in those times of persecution not onely in some one but in many Churches for the discussion whereof Cyprian and the Affrican Doctors also concluded Cypr. lib. 1 Epist 8. et lib. 4. Epist 2. that a common meeting of many Churches was necessary in a buisenes so common and of so great consequence that the plaster might be as broad as the sore and the remedy hold some proportion with the malady Secondly For the power it hath That it may be distinctly understood what kind of power it is which in reference to the present question is due or undue to Classes I will premise two or three distincttons 1. Dist Jt is not potestas originalis but derivata i. e. it not a power which the Classis hath originally in and from it selfe but which is borrowed and derived from others viz from particular Churches So that as the conduit pipes can give no other water then what themselves received from the springs nor the starres any greater light then is communicated to them from the Sun so the Classes can excercise no other power over any particular Church then that which it selfe hath freely given them Hence it will follow that the Classes have not an absolute but a limited power not a Magisteriall but a Ministeriall power not the power of lords but of stewards not of princes but of embassadours
the setling of any Minister in any Church before they had examined his cause or heard what he could say in his owne defence as they did in Mr. H. case or to deprive the Church of a man whom they desired only because he refused to baptise all that are presented by whomsoever though they were neither members of that Church nor otherwise knowne and that in Amsterdam as they did in my case Or to proceed against men so farr that abhorr all haeresy and schysme From the Scriptures they have no such power nor from the Churches nor from the Synods nor from the fundamentall lawes of their owne constitution Whence then The answerer opposeth men upon needlesse jealousyes and then craveth the helpe of the Classis to keepe them out they conceiving it to be their part to defend the ministers interpose strenuously ab that I could say justly and orderly and judge that such men are not fit to be setled in that Church Hereupon the members complaine that he giveth and they receive an undue power in this particular Where is now the double slander will he deny the fact It is too evident Will he deny it to be unduely done The very forme of subscription required by the Classis it selfe will witnes against him which excludeth not any man from the Ministry in these Churches for that cause And can they duely and justly require that of the preacher of the English Church which is not required of any Dutch Minister by the orders of the Classis it selfe But the Answerer gave them not this power The power which the Ministers of the Classis have is not of my gift sayth he they had that power which they excercise before I wae The question is not of the power which they have in generall but of a power which they excercise in some particular viz in that whereof they complaine And herein they doe not complaine of his approving their due power but of his giving them an undue power depriving them of men whom they desired without sufficient cause This power they tooke not to themselves till they were called upon to interpose for the prevention of some imagined danger in the English Church Who suggested those jealousyes Did not the Answerer Who importuned them to wright what they did in the cases here mentioned Did not the Answerer Who bound the Church to rest in the wrightings of those Ministers in these cases Who but the Answerer Let the Scripture be searched and the text shewen wherein the word hath given them this power to hinder the Church from chusing a Minister otherwise free from all exception onely for such causes Let the Synods be examined Js there one Canon in them all to warrant their excercising such a power Will the English Church acknowledge that they have given the Classis this power If the Scriptures the Synods the Church gave it not them if themselves saught it not tooke it not till it was given them it must needs be that the Answerer gave it them By what right either he gave it or they received it I inquire not let them agree about that betweene themselves or rather let them in simplicity and truth satisfye first their owne consciences then the Complainants In his third answer he chargeth Mr. Hook and me with schysme It was requisite he should doe so else he knew that the Classis and he must beare the blame of usurping and excercising an undue power to the wronging of the Church Let us see how he proveth it First In Mr. Hooker whom he chargeth with fowre opinions which tended to schysme as he sayth 1. The two first concerne the Brownists as 1. his opinion that they might lawfully be received for members of that Church 2. that in some cases the members of this Church might heare at their assemblyes To helpe the Reader to a right understanding of this cause till Mr. H. shall thinck it fit to speake for himselfe I will shew 3. things 1. That Mr. H. did not approve of the Brownists judgment in the point of Seperation for in expresse words he answereth to the first question To seperate from the faithfull assemblies and Churches in England as no Churches is an errour in judgment and sinne in practise held and maintayned by the Brownists And therefore to communicate with them either in this their opinion or practise is sinfull and utterly unlawfull 2. That he delivered his judgement herein with considerable cautions as 1. that men should renounce their opinion and practise 2. that care be taken to prevent offence either by incouraging them in their way or by drawing ours to a further approbation of that way then is meet 3. that whatsoever moderation he allowed in this case was to be understood 1. according to the former caution and interpretation and 2. upon supposition 1. that they erred in this point not obstinately but for want of light and conviction as appeareth in his answer to the second question 2. that the person thus opinionated is in his judgment and life otherwise altogether unblameable such an one as in the judgment of reasonable charity may be counted a member of Christ so a Saint 1 Cor. 1.2 3. That the judging a man unfit to be received a mēber for an erronious opinion in such a kind is to confirme the Brownists in that unsupportable and absurd censure which now they maintayne touching those that hold the Churches in England true Churches professe they will occasionally communicate therein as appeareth in his answer to the third question These things being duely weighed I leave it to the judgment of the indifferent Reader whether a man allowing such men to be received members with that Church or others differing frō them in judgement and practise about Seperation to heare with them occasionally and extra casum scandali without offence and expressing himselfe in these points with such interpretations cautions and suppositions may justly be charged with schysme 3. The third opinion which he held and the Answerer sayth tended to schysme was that private men might preach and expound the Scripture c. In the 17. question propounded to him by the Answerer he expresseth his judgment by a distinction of a double ground from which this may be done viz either ex officio or ex dono i. e. by vertue of an office and this no man may doe without a calling thereunto from the Church or from the gift that Christ doeth dispense to severall members according to their measure the place they hold in the body and that thus any Christian may privately doe as opportunity expediency serve he holdeth and therein professeth his agreement with Dr. Ames in the 14. Booke of cases of consc cap. 25. who proveth it both by Scripture and reason And will any man say that this is an opinion or practise of Schysme 4. The fourth opinion which he held and for which the Answerer accuseth him of schysme is that Churches
sufficient evidence whereupon to ground so deepe an accusation as that of Schysme is If so let him shew it by Scriptures or good reason but with all to guide his judgment let him know that the mere preaching as assistant in a Church at the intreaty of the Church is not numbred among those common causes which by the order of these reformed Churches are appropriated to the cognition or consent of the Classes it is in it selfe to be accounted among the things which are proper to particular Churches And is it a Schysmaticall tenet to hold that things proper to particular Churches are under the power of particular Churches which are cheife in matters that are properly their owne what then will he say to that Canon of the Synod at Midleborough Those things shall not be handled in the greater assemblyes which may be ended in the lesser Can. 25. to the Canons of the Synod of 3 Nations Cap. 17. 18. to the Sinod at Emden Cap. 2. to that Canon in the Harmony of the Belgick Sinods that those matters only shall be brought into the Classes which cannot be ended in the Consistory cap. 7. art 6. See Zepperus lib. 3. cap. 5. Were these Synods schysmaticall Conventicles or were their Canons schysmaticall conclusions How then is this which I affirme schysmaticall To brand me with an imputation of schysme he spareth not these Synods which deliver the same thing in effect that I say and all those worthyes who have written concerning Ecclesiasticall discipline or the authority of Councills of whom we spake in the former Section or which have handled the power of particular Churches in chusing their owne Pastors of whom we spake in the foregoing Section Yea I wish he may not be found to beare false witnes against the truth it selfe in the Scriptures which we have declared in both those Sections to warrant so much as I have said in this matter 4. His fourth answer supposeth that eminent men may cause eminent danger by their private opinions The men in whom he instanceth I confesse were not inferiour to either of us in learning But that which he intimateth concerning opinions held by them which tended to the ruine and desolation of Churches if he apply it to this question about the power of particular Churches to admit of Ministers to preach as assistants I cannot acknowledge to be true upon the former grounds but if he meane any other opinions or practises it is nothing to the matter in question 5. In his fifth answer upon his observation that the Complainants in their particular greivances mention me he inferreth that their inordinate desire of me hath made this trouble to the Church But. 1. neither the ground nor the inference is right 1. Not the ground For they mention not me alone but others also 2 Nor the inference For will their complaining of injuryes done to them in a particular reference to me prove their desire of me to be inordinate By what medium Let him frame his Argument into a Syllogisme and it will appeare to be Sophisticall and ridiculous But I spare him 2. How easily may they or I upon the same ground warrant prove that his inordinate desire of having his owne will that I say no more hath made this trouble in the Church by drawing all the lines of the severall Sections in the circle and circumference of their complaint to that as the onely centre But I doe not affect in Circuitu ambulare 6. In his sixt answer which is to their parenthesis wherein they noate that he would have had others that to this day hold the same opinion Such is the invincible power of truth that his owne words concerning those two instances are sufficient to prove the thing which he would deny if what I have written in the 11. Section concerning his private conference with me be compared with what himselfe confesseth Mr. B wrote to him and with his owne acknowledgment of Mr. R. agreement with me in his third and last answer to that instance Nor is his desire of having them complained of for in the injoyment of either of them they had bene happy but his partiall sticking at that in me which he would have passed by in them The 29. Section examined Concerning the undue power of the Classis in making lawes IN this Section they produce the second proofe of the justnes their complaint of his subjecting the Church under an undue power of the Classis viz his giving them power to make lawes and orders whereunto whosoever will be ministers of that Church must submit For proofe hereof they give two instances 1. that they bind Ministers to observe the orders and customs of the Dutch Church 2. their second instance is concerning this order of promiscuous baptising which they made a coÌ„dition of my admittance to that Ministry The justnes of their laying the blame of boath these upon the Answerer they prove 1. Because some of the Dutch preachers themselves have declared their willingnes to cast off some of those customs if the vastnes of their Church would permâ—â— it 2. Because one of them said to the Answerer in the Classis upon occasion of his complaining of my not conforming to their orders you your selfe doe not conforme to all our orders 3. Because they have professed that they should have bene glad that the differences had bene ended among our selves 4. Because he hath of late required of the Elders that an order might be made in the Consistory that whatsoever minister shall hereafter be called to that Church should conforme to that wrighting of the five Ministers Now let us see what answers he pretendeth to make 1. to their complaint against the proceeding of the Classis in this particular 2. to their complaint of his giving this undue power to the Classis First To their complaint of the undue proceeding of the Classis Herein he answereth nothing to the purpose For he neither denyeth the fact nor giveth any satisfaction about the aequity of it In a word he so answereth as if he saught nothing else but how to evade answering and to get some hole to hide his head in Wherefore that the truth in this matter may appeare we will consider two things 1. de facto whether they have made such lawes and orders or not 2. de jure whether they have done it by a due or by an undue power 1. That they have made such lawes and orders can not be denyed For if the praescription of necessary observances be a law if the imposition of any thing with a binding power be a law if the decrees to the obedience whereof men are any way compelled are lawes the things instanced in to witt conformity to their ecclesiasticall customs and promiscuous administration of Baptisme according to the wrighting of the five Ministers were imposed as lawes upon me For did they not bind me to rest in that wrighting and to conforme to those customs
things indifferent concerning the lawfullnes whereof they are unpersuaded much lesse would he have them bound to that which they judge to be a sinne and they who bind them thereunto cannot declare to be lawfull the one thincking it necessary to be avoyded and the other what ever they pretend to thinck not being able to prove it necessary to be done Ans 2. The Apostle here speakes of receiving men as brethren not of receiving men into office Rom. 14.3 Reply What will he inferr from thence That men may be refused from an office for refusing to doe those things which Christ hath not commanded and concerning the lawfullnes whereof they doubt as in the case questioned or the like It seemes he intendeth that But then it lyeth upon him to prove it else his assertion is delivered too Dictatorlike in a more masterly then rationall way without proofe Ans 3. The doubting and wavering in matters of Religion is very dangerous and a great evill to be taken heed of Reply Though I spake of doubting yet I tooke not the word in that strict sense wherein it is used to expresse an haesitancy betweene assent and dissent the mind inclining no more to one part then to the other but I modestly called it a doubt that I might provoke them to satisfye me with convincing Arguments yet the Arguments which persuaded me of the unlawfullnes of it seemed to me not onely praeponderant but convincing which the Reader may find in the 12 Section 4. His fourth answer hath bene already examined and found too light Other texts of Scripture I alleadged to expresse whom I account to be Christians to witt such as answer that reason for which the name was at first given to those that professed to beleive in Antioch Act. 11.21.26 and whom I account the children of Christians namely those whose parents at least one of them in externall profession are within the Covenant Gen. 17.10 Faythfull Rom. 4.11 Called Act. 2.39 Herein the Answerer seemeth to agree with me yet afterwards really differeth about the meanes whereby that externall profession is made whence they may be denominated Christians I deny that the saying yae at the reading of the Liturgy of Baptisme publickly or the nodding of the head or some other gesture used by persons altogether unknowne and that in such a place as Amsterdam to make shew of consenting to that which is read and it may be they understand not is sufficient proofe of their being Christians He affirmeth it is Let us see how he proveth it 1. The baptising of Turkes or Iewes Mahometists or Heathens or Infidells of what Nation or Sect soever is not practised nor allowed in the Dutch Church and if any such case or apparent cause of scruple had fallen out then by the wrighting of the five ministers it was permitted to Mr. D. to have referred the baptisme of such infants to further deliberation and judgment of the Eldership or Classis And therefore Mr. D. doeth unjustly call it promiscuous baptising of all infants without difference Reply 1. I grant that the children of knowne Turkes Iewes c. are not admitted to Baptisme upon the parents saying yea or nodding the head c. nor doe any people so grosly throughout the Christian world yet neverthelesse I doe justly call their manner of administring this Sacrament in that place promiscuous baptising for these Reasons 1. Because they professe to admit all that are brought and who knoweth not that there are of all nations and Sects among them 2. They take no course whereby it may appeare that they make a difference of persons either before the dispensing of the Sacrament to know the parents or in the time of administring no other questions being put to unknowne strangers then are put to the knowne members of other Churches or their owne 3. That which with them passeth for a profession of Christianity may be done by any Turke Iew or Infidell among them for even they may nodd their heads or say yae to they know not what as well as others if they have a mind so to doe 4. Though the infants of knowne Iewes or Infidells are not received seing no care is taken to know who they are that are presented before they be brought in publick it may easily come to passe that a nurse or some other body without the parents consent or knowledge may bring such infants and their manner is to admit them by whomsoever they are brought and say yae or nodd the head in testimony of her consent out of a superstitious and ignorant conceit that in so doing she hath made a Christian 5. The Infants of many other persons are admitted to baptisme who have no right to that ordinance who are no Iewes nor Turkes of whom we have spoken in the 12 Section in respect of whom also it may fitly be called promiscuous baptising 6. Whereas he sayth that in a cause of apparent scruple I had liberty to take the advise of the Eldership or Classis about baptising or refusing those that were brought This doeth not at all salve the sore For. 1. it is too late to take advise when I am put upon the action in publick I being in the pulpit as the manner is 2. what cause of scruple can be apprehended to be in one stranger more then in an other all being alike unknowne and one and the same forme used to all and all speaking the same word yae or using the same gesture as nodding the head 2. To prove that such a testification of fayth and repentance as that is in question by saying yae or some gesture of the body is sufficient for persons otherwise altogether unkowne to procure the admission of their infants to have the seale of baptisme he pretendeth to say somewhat which now we are to examine First To prove that the word Yea is sufficient he alleadgeth first Mat 5.37 Let your communication be yea yea and Mat 9.28 where when our Saviour Christ asked the blind men that came unto him for cure Beleive yee that I am able to doe this They said unto him Yea Lord. and Mat 13.51 where our Saviour Christ having opened diverse parables unto them asked his Disciples Have yee vnderstood all these things They sayd unto him Yea Lord and Ioh 21.15 where Christ asked Peter lovest thou me more then these He sayd unto him Yea Lord thou knowest that I love thee Reply 1. I grant that the word yea in ordinary speech serveth to expresse consent 2. that it doth so many times also in matters of Religion But what is this to the question The question is not whether men doe by such an expression testifye faith or repentance but whether such a testification be sufficient to cause men otherwise altogether unknowne to be reputed in the covenant so farr as to procure the admission of their children to Baptisme The places alleadged by him serve not for proofe of it For 1. Let your communication be yea
place wherein Christians had their name given them at the first wherein I find no such thing The proofe lyeth upon him who affirmeth it to be sufficient not upon me who deny it 2. The force of Negative Arguments from Scripture would be none at all if such answers were any thing worth For when in arguing against popish devises we bring them to the rule where no such thing is appoynted or approved by this evasion they might easily seeme to answer any such Argument For instance when to shew the unlawfullnes of chreame oyle spittle exorcisme c. in baptisme we bring them to the institution and to primitive patternes where such things were not appoynted nor approved how easily might they answer as he doeth how can it be proved from hence that such as used those things sinned in so doing 3. Suppose an Anabaptist should put him to prove from that text that infants were baptised or a Libertine should put him to prove from thence that those that were to be baptised were presented in the Congregation would not he thinck himselfe unreasonably dealt withall To conclude that place of Scripture sufficiently proveth that for which it was alleadged namely that beleiving and turning to the Lord are the characters of Christians and that joyning with a true particular visible Church where it can be done is an evidence of beleiving and turning to the Lord. For so I find them joyned in that Text. Act. 11.26 Let him prove all those whose infants are admitted to baptisme in that place to be such as in respect of externall profession may in the judgment of reasonable charity be judged such and their saying yea or nodding of the head or bowing the body shall make no difference betweene us 2. For the second text Gen 17.10 It can not be shewed sayth he that more questions were propounded in old times to circumcised parents that brought their children to be circumcised then are now propounded to those that bring their children to be baptised or that circumcision was denyed those who shewed their consent and willingnes to embrace the Covenant in such breife answers and gestures as we speake of Reply 1. The end for which that text was brought was to shew that none were circumcised but the infants of those that were in the Covenant How they declared their embracing of the Covenant if he demand the Scripture elsewhere sheweth viz by their joyning with the Church of God in walking according to the lawes delivered unto their fathers by the ministry of Moses And this they declared more by their workes in they re ordinary conversation then by words at Circumcision In which case we will not much stand upon words if the parties are joyned to any true Church now under the Gospell as they were then to the Church of the Iewes under the Law 2. This answer is as a sword wherewith he woundeth his owne cause For he sayth they were circumcised persons wbo brought their children to be circumcised and we know that such were of the Church of Jsraell But many for whose admittance he pleadeth are children of such parents as are of no Church and some of them may be such for aught he knoweth as never were baptised 3. Text. Rom 4.11 This Text was alleadged to shew that they must be beleivers at least one of them in externall profession whose infants may be admitted to baptisme which is as Circumcision was the seale of righteousnes that is by fayth Against this he answereth nothing and hereby doeth tacitly and implicitly confesse that the seale properly by due right may be administred to none but to beleivers to whom the righteousnes which is by fayth appertaineth so farr as men may by the judgment of charity conceive and apprehend from which how farr they are against whom we except is obvious to him that will judge by a rule Let us now consider what he sayth He sayth Abraham is there called the Father of them that beleive whether they were members of a visible Church or not And for aught we know that were not of his family nor under the government or guidance of any particular Church If a sonne or bondman of Ephron or of any Amorite or Canaanite were then brought unto the knowledge of the true God why might not the infant of such an one have bene circumcised though not living in a visible Church Reply 1. All these words are besides the matter For if all he sayth were granted yet it proveth not that all those may be called beleivers and so Christians whom they admitt to Baptisme which he should have done if he would have justified their custom of baptising their infants under the name of Christians children who can not be accounted beleivers according to the sense of this text 2. His wholl answer is made of mere conjectures which cannot establish the conscience of any man in a well grounded persuasion of the warrantablenes of that action concerning the lawfullnes whereof it doubteth that it may be done in faith Which to me is a cleare evidence of his want of a rule to beare him out therein which if he could have found his expressions would not have bene so conjecturall and uncertaine 3. To the particular conjectures First Whereas he sayth that Abraham is the Father of the faithfull whether they were members of a visible Church or not That the vanity of his conjecture in reference to the matter in question may appeare we must cōsider the drift of the place which is to confirme what he had formerly said concerning the speciall universality or community of the subject of justification whereof he began to speake in Chap. 3. v 22. and afterwards prosecuted v 29. shewing that one the same God is the God both of the Iewes and of the Gentiles and therefore doeth justifye them boath one and the same way to wit by fayth though the one be circumcised the other not which he proveth by the example of Abraham to whom faith was imputed for righteousnes being uncircumcised and when he was circumcised it was not that he might be justified by circumcision but that the righteousnes which he had by fayth being uncircumcised might be sealed to him by that signe Now in that Abraham was justifyed by fayth before he was circumcised hence he became the father of all those that beleive among the Gentiles who are uncircumcised and in that he was circumcised afterwards that the righteousnes of fayth might be sealed to him hence he became the father of those who beleived among the Iewes and were circumcised Thence the conclusion followeth Therefore according to Abrahams example righteousnes is imputed to those that beleive among the uncircumcised Gentiles as well as among the circumcised Iewes But in what order cometh Abraham to be a father to the beleiving Iew In what sense is Abraham called their father As he is an example of fayth v 12. and of righteousnes imputed by fayth in this 11. v. And they