sooth be the men that in the pulpits crie so lowde who disesteeming the whole world besides obtrude themselues as masters of mankind each an Oracle I know you wash your hands your words condemne their insolencie you will not seeme to participate of their fault But what is in your heart Are not you too one of those that abbet a priuate judgment against a publike You plead against the power of the Church to determine matter of faith in her generall assemblies that I see And I know too that you punish men for not conforming themselues to the determinations of one not generall Reconcile these if you can And tell me if I be not bound to conforme my judgment to the judgment of a Councell when it is perfectlie oecumenicall what shall binde me to conforme it vnto one that is onelie Nationall if the Decrees of the whole Church may be lawfullie refused what obligeth me in conscience and before God to receaue the Decrees of your Conuocation Is euerie subiect bound to be of his Princes Religion or is it lawfull for him to subscribe against that he knowes to be the truth Is England since you began to teach growne bigger then all the world is a part is was not of old so bigger then the whole In way of excuse for your not subscribing to decrees oecumenicall you plead the Authoritie of some fewe men how vniustlie heareafter it will appeare and shall not the Authoritie of farre more and those great Schollers excuse vs in conscience for not subscribing to your priuate Articles wherein be many things generallie condemned in former ages To giue instance in one point that containes many In your 23. article you determine thus The Sacrifices of Masses in the which was commonlie said that the Priests did offer Christ for the quick and the dead to haue remission of paine or guilt were blasphemous fables and dangerous deceits So you Yet was this Sacrifice frequented f Missa abominatio in calice aureo propinata omnes reges terra populos à summo vsque ad nouissimum sic inebriauit vt proram puppim suae salutis in hac vna voragine statuerint Caluin Instit li. 4. c. 18. See the Protest Apol. tract 3. Sect. 1. and in the Conclusion to the Iudges Sect. 6. 10. generallie when Luther began to make your Schisme It was auowed in the g S. Iren. li. 4. c. 32. Noui testamenti Nouam docuit oblationem quam Ecclesia ab Apostolis accipiens in vniuerso mundo offert Deo Concil Nicenum 1. can 14. S. Cyrill cum eo Concil Ephes in Anathem 11. S. Augu. Conc. 1. in Psalm 33. Nondum erat sacrificium Corporis Sanguinis Domini quod nunc diffusum est toto orbe terrarum S. Ambros de Sacram. li. 4. 5 S. Cyrill Catech. myst 5 S. Chrysost lib. 3. 6. de Sacerdotio Hom. 17. in Epist ad Hebraeos His Liturgie is yet extant And so is S. Basils too S. Gregor Nyssen Hom. 1. de Resurr Praeoccupat impetum violentum ac sese in oblationem victimam offert pro nobis Sacerdes simul agnus Dei. Vide Disp li. 5 c. 9 Coccium in Thesanro t 2. li. 6. a. 4. times primitiue And our Sauiours h This is my bodie which is broken for you This is the blood of the new testament which is shed for you words registred in the i 1. Cor. 11. Matt. 26. That it was offered for the quick and the dead it is also testified abundantlie S. Epiphan Haeres 75 where he saith also the Church receaued it by tradition S. Cyrill Cathec 5. Pro omnibus oramus qui ante nos vita functi sunt maximum credentes animarum iuuamen pro quibus offertur obsecratio sancti illius tremendi quod ante nos iacet Sacrificij S. Chrysost Homil. 3 in Epist ad Phil. Non frustra hac ab Apostolis sunt legibus constituta vt in venerandis inquam atque horrisicis mysterijs memoria corum fiat qui decesserunt nouerant hinc multum ad illos lucri accedere multum vtilitatis S. August in Enchirid. ad Laurent c. 110. lib. de cura pro mort c. 1. c. 4. Non sunt praetermittenda supplicationes pro Spiritibus mortuorum vt quibus ad ista desunt parentes aut filij ab vna is exhibeatur â—ia matre Ecclesia Lib. 9. Confess c. 13. Meminerint ad altare tuum Monica famulae tuae cum Patritio quondam eius coniuge c. S. Ioan. Damasc Orat. quod defuncti Missis inuentur Quod quidem citra vllam controuersiam Catholica Apostolica Ecclesia sine vlla ambiguitate retinet c. Vt consuetudinis testem â—llum cito The like appeares by the Liturgies Where obserue that I reflect preciselie vpon the termes of your Article which condemneth vnbloodie Sacrifice offered by the Priest for the Quick and the Dead to haue remission of paine or guilt If this be a blasphemous fable the whole world was in Errour So commonlie was it said and esteemed lawfull and so vniuersallie frequented See further Gualterius his Chronographicall table verit decima The Protestants Apol. tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 4. and Sect. 7. subd 6. The Conference of Cath. and Prot. doct li. 2. c. 24. angl Bible being vnderstood in their natiue proper sence do k What necessitie there is to enquire into the true sence of these words This is my bodie will best appeare in the after-examination of the diuers consequences of your owne sence to wit your doctrine of transsubstantiation corporall and materiall presence propitiatorie sacrifice and proper adoration all which depend vpon your Romish exposition of the former words of Christ The issue then wâ—ll be this that if the words be certainelie true in a proper and litterall sence then wee are to yeild to you the whole cause Morton Instit. of Masse li. 2. c. 1. I omit to note how Luther who did impugne the Sacrifice of Masse had his instructions from the Deuil as doth appeare still by his owne booke de Missa Priuata p. 228 Ego coram vobis And p. 230 â— â—n summa Edit Wittemb anno 1558. where he puts dâ—wne the Deuils arguments amongst which one is against vnbloodie Sacrifice Contra institutionem Christi Missa vsus es pro Sacrificio c. §. quarto confessedlie make for and confirme it Now should wee subscribe to your Article wee should contradict all this Wee should contradict open Scripture interpreted by the whole Christian world and by the l And this Spirit is the Holie Ghost Ioh. 14. 16. Spirit in it And whilst you sollicite vs so to do what do you but abbet a priuate Spirit and this too importunelie vnseasonablie then when you denie to the whole Church power to define the veritie euen of this cause or to declare the sence of Scripture touching it in her Councels oecumenicall I am not disposed
quâ—d antiquitus abomnibus Ecclesiae Catholicae Sacerdotibus vniuersalis Concilij authoritate decretum Deinde si qua noua c. c. 41. ExeÌ„pluÌ„ adhibuimus SaÌ„cti CoÌ„ciliâ— quod antè trienmum fermè in Asia apud Ephesum celebratum est c. Vniuersis Sacerdotibus qui illò ducenti feré conuenerant c. omnes verò Catholicos sacerdotes fuisse c. c. 42. Wee haue said that in the antiquitie of the Church two things are greatlie and with greate diligence to be obserued quibus wherevnto all those must adhere steedfastlie that will not be hereticks why do you start first of all if any thing should be auncientlie defined with the authoritie of an oecumenicall Councell by all the Priests of the Catholick Church and next if any new question should arise wherein that were not found recourse to be made to the opinions or sentences of holie Fathers those onelie who euerie one in their owne time and place were found to be approued masters continuing still in the vnitie of communion and faith and what soeuer they be found to haue held with one and the same meaning and consent that without all scruple should be iudged the true and Catholike doctrine of the Church Here besides the faith and profession of the Church symbolicall or vniuersall be two other rules wherevnto all that will not be flat heretiks must of necessitie conforme themselues the decrees of oecumenicall Councells and the vniforme consent of Fathers I leaue you now to compare your condition with his opinion What he deliuers in this matter is not his doctrine alone c. 1. That you conceaue him the better he presentlie brings for instance or example the proceedings of the Councell of Ephesus held l c. 42. three yeares no more before he wrote this booke wherein Nestorius was condemned the anathematismes of the Councell you may see when you please It is worth the noting by the way for it is your practise too and indeed of all hereticks that Nestorius as he relates in the end of the chapter renounced the authoritie of the Church in deciding controuersies affirming m c. 43. totam etiam nunc errare semper errasse Ecclesiam that the whole Church euen now in the time of the Councell doth erre and alwaies hath erred In the last chapter of all he brings in the authoritie of the See Apostolike and in fine concludes his booke If neither Apostolicall definitions nor Ecclesiasticall decrees whereby according to the sacred consent of vniuersalitie and antiquitie all Heretikes euer and in fine Pelagius Caelestius Nestorius haue been deseruedlie condemned be to be violated it is necessarie verilie that all Catholikes hereafter which haue a care to shewe themselues lawfull children of the mother-Church be associated and close ioyned vnto the faith of the holie Fathers and so insist that they die in it and that they detest abhorre speake against persecute the prophane nouelties of prophane men §. XIII Exceptions against a text or two refuted THE last Opposition which you make is against two of the places of Scripture which our Deuines bring to confirme the Councels infallibilitie These also least you conceaue there is difficultie I will consider as farre as your Opposition goes though otherwise not meddling with the Question de Iure which you finde in our Deuines discussed at large and then make an end The one of these places containes our Sauiours promise of the Holie Ghosts assistance made vnto the Church The Spirit of Truth when he comes shall teach you all truth Ioan. 14. 16. The other of the places represents vnto vs the interpretation of the forsaid promise as it was vnderstood by the Apostles who relying on it met in Councell and there defined a Controuersie It hath seemed good to the Holie Ghost and to vs. Acts 15. Against the former place you saie first that it is meant of the Apostles onlie This is false for it is foreuer I will aske my father and he will giue you another comforter that he remaine with you for euer the Spirit of truth And apud vos manebit he shall remaine with you Io. 14. the Catholike Church is his mysticall bodie which cannot subsist without his Spirit and for confirmation and illustration of her faith not onelie in the Apostles time when our Sauiour was gone but euer since after they be gonne she needs assistance of the Spirit Neither was it his minde to leaue the faithfull without such comfort non relinquam vos orphanos Ioh. 14. I will not leaue you orphans O father establish confirme sanctifie them in the truth I aske not for them onlie Ioh. 17. the Apostles but for the Church for those which by their word shall beleeue in me That by thy prouidence for my sake in our Spirit all be as it were one and agree to their proportion as wee doe who doe iudge and approue still the same But tell me hath the Spirit left the Church or is he still in it if he hath left it how hath she supernaturall operations how doth she beleeue the diuine word how doth she subsist as the Gospell saith she shall notwithstanding all the endeuours of hell it selfe Mat. 16. If he doth remaine in it it is then true that the promise holds still euen that which was made vnto the Church in the Apostles time and began first to be fulfilled in them The greatest promises in all the Scripture be two one of God the Father to send his sonne to redeeme the world the other of God the Sonne to send the holie Ghost his spirit to teach and instruct his Church if you doe not beleeue the later is performed you will giue vs cause to thinke that you would euacuate the former too and not trust God at all in his promise nor in his couenant neither though so farre you trust one another Ierem. 35. Ezech. 37. I will giue my lawe in their bowels and in their hart I will write it and I will be their God and they shall be my people My Spirit that is in thee and my words that I haue put in thy mouth Isa 59. shall not depart out of thy mouth and out of the mouth of thy seed and out of the mouth of the seed of thy seed saith our Lord from this present and foreuer See the Disp li. 3. Secondlie you saie that it is not to be vnderstood of all the dogmaticall points or doctrine by our Sauiour reuealed and deliuered vnto the Church but of some points onlie â—hose which are expressed in the Apostles Creed and not necessarilie of all those neither Here againe you doe manifestlie contradict the text of Scripture and open the waie to let errour and heresie into the Church For if the holie Ghost teach no more by the promise of our Sauiour then those fewe points it is impossible for men to knowe the truth touching other reuealed verities though they be necessarie to be knowne
to beleeue that a part is greater theÌ„ the whole The Authoritie of m England also before Caluin was borne beleeued the Sacrifice of the masse and offered it for the quick and the deade See the Prudentiall Ballance all NatioÌ„s Christian moues me more then the Authoritie of one n Other Protestants admit not your Confession onlie now deuided and apart Neither can I be perswaded that corpus doth signifie a signe or figure onlie or that bread properlie was crucified for my sinnes I am not wiser then heeretofore men haue beene not wiser then the Church I reuerence her decrees and am readie to be directed by her Whether those you pretend vnto were so too will appeare in the discussion of the Controuersie wee now deale â—n which doth concerne the generall Councells wherein she declares herself Of such Councels your fellowes haue questioned many things as first who hath power to call them secondlie what persoÌ„s are to be in them thirdlie who is to preside Fourthlie whether they be infallible in their decrees fiftlie which be such Councels The Controuersie wee are to speake of is none of these but onlie what learned men Catholikes haue deliuered taught about the infallibitie of a CouÌ„cell supposing it be intirelie oecumenicall which supposition being premised The four first your selues honour with the title of oecumenicall and it is confessedlie a possible supposition the Question is this Whether any Deuines of the Catholike communion haue openlie and to the knowledge of those to whom it appertained to looke vnto the Church auouched and maintained of Councels entirelie â—ecumenicall such as were generall â—nd approued that in decrees of Faith they might mistake and â—rre Wee dispute not you and 〈◊〉 now whether this or that Councell be such a Councell That is another matter Nor whether such a Councell supâ—ose it be and define be infalâ—ble But what men Cathoâ—ike Deuines haue auerred â—ouching the priuiledge of a Councell generall entire and â—pproued The termes of the Question â—e remarkable Councels not whatsoeuer but generall and â—pproued or entirelie oecumeâ—icall Deuines of the Catholike â—ommunion not Hereticks Wee know that Hereticks reâ—use entire approued Councels Matters of Faith not matters â—f Fact Auouched openlie the knowledge of the cause goes before the sentence of the iudge Your pretence is that some Deuines haue auouched their fallibilitie in matter and manner aboue specified in the Quaere Which if it were true that I note this by the way the tenet of their Infallibilitie would notwithstanding continue firme The Church doth not at all times punish what euer she doth abhorre and negligence of discipline in a Superiour is a distinct thing from the lawes or principles of a communitie Much lesse could it be ouerturned by their doubtfull speaches if any could be found and least of all by obscure passages Dark and hard speaches may be found in o Vide S. Hieron Apolog. adu Ruf. li. 2. Fieri potest vt vel certè antequam in Alexandria quasi daemonium meridianum Arius nasceretur innocenter quaedam minus cautè loqunâ—i sunt quae non possint peruersarum hominum calumniam declinare vide S. Aug. de Praedest Sanct. c. 14. Auncient Writers that seeme to make againsâ— such tenets of Religion as you call fundamentall and some Fathers haue doubted of some â—aue denied p Euseb Hist Eccles li. 3. c. 19. Origenes apud eundem li. 6. c. 19. S. Hieron de Script Eccles in Ep. ad Dard. Bilson Suru p. 664. See the Disp pag. 431. bookes of Scriâ—ture which all now beleeue â—o be Canonicall wherefore if 〈◊〉 this matter of Councels-auâ—â—oritie the like should haue â—appened the tenet of Assistanâ—e giuen to them in their deâ—rees of faith being grounded 〈◊〉 Scripture and hauing for it 〈◊〉 more euident perpetuall tradiâ—â—on then you can shew for diâ—ers parts of Scripture which â—ou do beleeue to be diuine â—ere still euen by you in like â—anner to be admitted and â—aintained vnles you think it â—wfull to reiect those Books alâ—â— because once doubted of or â—enied and neuer to beleeue â—at which might with a preâ—nce of authoritie be oppoâ—â—d or contradicted Thus I could answer and â—are the labour to talke further of the matter Vide S. Aug. li. 2. contra Donat. c. 5. but becausâ— you wrong some that be leaâ—ned worthie Authors and some Fathers too least you finâ— adherents that will beleeuâ— you to the preiudice of theâ—selues and others vpon yoâ— bare word when they sâ—â— none contradict and confuâ— that you boast of I will suruâ—â— the citations Our dispute in this matteâ— is to be of Catholikes it is as bâ—fore was noted impertineâ—â— to talke of others and of sucâ— as in plaine termes haue auouchâ— and maintained what you prâ—tend they did Wee know thâ— some haue beene mistaken 〈◊〉 great matters and yet contâ—nued in the Church either bâ—bâ—cause the thing was not suffâ—cientlie brought to light 〈◊〉 matters appertaining to diuinâ— faith be not at all times equaâ—lie proposed or because they were readie to submit themselues As in the QuestioÌ„s of the Canon of Scripture of Baptisme giuen by Hereticks c. and conforme their iudgment as soone as the Church declared her self Wee know â—oo that diuers haue beene tempted in their faith and of these some haue falne into Heresie or Atheisme wherof we haue examples in Luthers preach and before in all ages â—uen the primitiue Others haâ—e discouered their temptaâ—ions with all the motions of â—heir vnderstanding to and â—ro concealing onlie the finall â—esolution or euent Of which â—nfirmitie some and not wiâ—hout scandall haue exhibited â—hemselues by their writings â—ublicke spectacles to the â—orld With those you and 〈◊〉 need not meddle being to â—peake of such onlie if any can â—e found as haue openlie denied the infallibilitie aboue specified and yet enioyed the communion of the Church notwithstanding such a knowne deniall She doth not thrust out of her communion one who doth onlie propose his doubtes to be resolued nor yet if by way of disputation he venters to far but without auouching especiallie when this is donne with submission to her iudgment or if he so conceale his mind or vtter himself so that nothing can be directlie proued against him Secret and concealed thoughts she cannot look into Euerie one is to be presumed good vnles the contrarie may be proued As many as haue exteriorlie communicated with the Church are lawfullie presumed to haue receaued her tenets vnles it be made appeare otherwise Though it be true that some who liue amongst vs oâ—herwhile be not of vs. Some â—o beare themselues for Caâ—holikes who be in their hearâ—es Atheistes or Heretikes There be no doubt Ipse Satanas transfigurat se in Angelum lucis Non est ergo magnum si ministri eius transfigurentur velut ministri iustitia 2. Corint 11. Nonne ego vos duodecim elegi ex vobis vnus diabolus est Ioan. 6.
some sooner then others yet all in the end approue and propose it DEbet sacrum Concilium vniuersale regulis Sancti Spiritus tam in Canone Sacrae Scriptura ac praeteritis Concilijs apertis dirigi maximè in negotio fidei quae vna inuariabilis necessario sicut fuit permanebit scripturas rimari in dubijs sicut in sexto vniuersali Concilio actum fuit alijs multis tunc definitio ex allegatis sumpta absque errore necessariò erit Vnde si ea non seruantur maximè libera omnium audientia ac vbi atiqua attentarentur in synodis quae obuiarent fidei Romanae Ecclesiae protestatio iustè ac simul appellatio ad futurum aliud Concilium fieri potest Baro p. 369. expunctis tamen ijs quae diuerso charactere notantur 2. NEither is there cause to feare that a Councell assisted by the holie Ghost and defining will contradict either scripture or the h Ex hoc etiaÌ„ elici potest fideÌ„ Romanae Ecclesiae in nulla synodo vniuersali retractari posse Cutan Conc. li. 2. c. 4. Dicit Augustiâ—us li. 1. con Donatistas volens stabili fundamento ex deâ—isione vniuersalis Concilij fidem probare Iam ne videar â—umanis argumentis id agere c. Idem c. 5. vidâ—s quanta â—niuersalibus Concilijs authoritas inest dum rectè celeâ—antur Vnde Augustinus l. 1 Serm. con Pelagianos diâ— matris Ecclesiae hanc esse authoritatem quod quisquis â—ntra hunc inexpugnabilem murum arietat ipse confrinâ—ut Ibidem faith of former times he that â—s chieflie interessed in the busines vnderstands all things clearlie and cannot contradict a veritie That which is obiected vpon ocâ—asion of S. Augustines words that i de verbis S. Augustini cum aliquo experimeÌ„to rerum c. fusius agemus suo loco a plenarie Councell may faile in the experiment of things and in that case iudge amisse makes nothing to the purpose for wee dispute not of infallibilitie in things which may be found out by tryall or experiment but in matters reuealed and of faith §. VI. Clemangis professed to reuerence the authoritie of Councells and only to propose some doubts for his instruction in some things touching them NIcolaus de Clemangis in disputatione cum scholastico Parisiensi quaedam etiam tradit quae cum doctrina Pontificiorum de Conciliorum infallilibilitate manifestè pugnant Baro p. 370. Dicit Concilium generale errare posse in controuersijs morum Baro Ibidem CLEMANGIS His worke iâ— a Index libr. prohibit Conc. Trid. forbidden and his frind tâ— whom he directed it perceaued iâ— came from b Quanquam Deum ac conscieÌ„tiam testari liceat nullatenus stomachato animo illa fuisse scripta quod miror tibi visum esse quia tamen vndecun que hoc euenerit ita tibi visum est vt tuae quantum fas fuerit voluÌ„tati ac petitioni morem geram dulciora ac sedatiora enitar Clemang ad scholast Paris p 599. edit Parisiensi anno 1576. discontent being forced as appeares by his owne Epistle c Opressus naÌ„que vt nosti ante aliquot annos aemulolorum insultatione me tunc grauissimè persequentium ex vrbe illa fui excedere compulsus latebrasque à facie tempestatis coÌ„tra me iniustè admodum illic saeuieÌ„tis alibi quaerere p. 600. latebras quaerere to plaie leastâ— sight He writes bitterlie against the Clergie belike they made him flie Touching Councells he doth not contradict their authoritie howsoeuer he mistakes the manner of defending it but onlie writes vnto a freind to be informed better in it protesting both to honour them and to be readie to amend what in his writing should be thought amisse Heare some of his owne words d Idem pa. 587. Verilie I reuerentlie receaue and faithfullie embrace all Councells as well such as longe agoe haue been duelie celebrated as also those which are celebrated now adaies and God forbid that I should thinke or speake any sinister thing of them Neither should I therefore be calumniated as lesse sincerelie esteeming them in that for the instruction of my ignorance I seeke to know and desire to haue declared vnto me some things that I may not only thinke of them well and faithfullie but also according to the capacitie of my litle wit trulie and wiselie speake of them And a litle after e Clemang pa. 588. I desire to be taught by thee whether thou thinkest it must be beleeued as a Catholike veritie that in those things which be of fact or of manners or of iudgments a generall Councell can neuer be deceaued as well as it is faithfullie beleeued that it cannot erre in faith And in the end f Idem pa. 598. alioquin temerariuÌ„ esset minus intellecta velle à sapientoribus discere quamuis etiam certè paratus sim si ea quae me mouent dubia explicando aliquid in radice veritatis minus fundatum aut alicuius fortasse scandadali illatiuum nimis astruere viderer aut fideli admonitu illud eradere aut ad lineam rectitudinis lima exactiori emendare Ibidem I intend as I haue oft alreadie said neither am I loath to repeate it in these or other writings to affirme nothing but that which may be altogeather agreeable to the Catholike integritie But in case I haue proposed not affirming but doubting or arguing any thing lesse certaine or true whereby I may be the more fullie informed of the certaintie I thinke that should not be thought rashnes in me And the rest which you finde cited in the Addition DIcit Christi assistentiam c. ad solos sanctos spirituales pertinere Baro p. 370. Non obscure innuit eam persuasionem seu fiduciam de conciliorum infallibilitate qua multi tumescunt esse Ecclesiae admodum perniciosam Idem p. 371. ANd whereas he proposeth by waie of doubt that holy meÌ„ only were to be heard speaking out of a Councell he seemes not to haue remeÌ„bred what our B. Sauiour said of Scribes and Pharisees teaching out of Moyses chaire quae dicunt facite imitate not their workes but practice what they teach That such as doe celebrate a Councell should not nimis inniti to much insist or presume on this that they are a generall Councell as if therefore they might freelie doe quaecunque libuerit doth not make against vs it denies not to a Councell infallibilitie as he denies it not to Prophets and Apostles who saies they should not relie to much therevpon as if therefore they might doe what they listed Moreouer his speach is qualified by himselfe if you marke it non debent vt videtur and g Clemang pa. 597. non vtile crediderim illos inniti mee thinks they should not I should not esteeme it profitable for them to relie c. § VII 1. Canus defends the infallibilitie of approued Councells 2. His opinion of others which are not
superare Omnium enim Haereticorum quasi regularis est ista temeritas Sed ille fidei imperator clementissimus per conuentus celeberrimos populorum atque gentium sedesque ipsas Apostolorum arce authoritatis muniuit Ecclesiam per pauciores piè doctos verè spirituales viros copiosissimis apparatibus etiam inuictissimae rationis armauit S. Aug. Epist ad Diosc 56. reason against the Church to the end they may seeme to bring something greater for to oppresse or ouercome her authoritie as S. Augustine well obserued long agoe And by the like stratagem did the pagaÌ„s heeretefore striue to withdraw men whollie from the Creede by shewing the contrarie so cleerelie that no doubt as they pretended could be made of it which was a way they thought to get qq In Catholica me tenet consensio populorum atque gentium c. apud vos autem vbi nihil horum est quod me inuitet ac teneat sola personat veritatis pollicitatio quae quidem si tam manifesta monstratur vt in dubium venire non possit praeponenda est omnibus illis rebus quibus in catholica teneor Si autem tantummodo promittitur non exhibetur nemo me mouebit ab ea fide quae animum meum tot tantis nexibus Christianae religionis astringit S. Aug. contra Epist Manich. Fundam c. 4. Promittebaâ— scientiam veritatis nunc quod nescio cogis vt credam c. 5. Multò iustiùs cautiùs facio si catholicis quoniam semel credidi ad te non transeo nisi me non credere iusteris sed manifestissimè ac apertissimè scire aliquid feceris Quocirca si mihi rationem redditùrus es dimitte Euangelium Si ad Euangelium me tenes ego ad eos me teneam quibus praecipientibus Euangelio credidi his iubentibus tibi omnino non ctedam Quod si fortè in Euangelio aliquod apertissimum de Manichaei apostolatu inuenire potueris infirmabis mihi catholicorum authoritatem qui iubent mihi vt tibi non credam Qua infirmata iam nec Euangelio credere potero c. Sed absit vt ego Euangelio non credam Ibidem schollers but it proued a meere bragge §. X. 1. Optatus cited his Aduersaries who refused to submitte them selues to the Church to be tryed by the Testament admitted by themselues But the cause it self was in the iudgment of the whole Catholike world to be decided in a Councell and was in fine so determined 2. For finding out the truth in matter of faith recourse is to be made to the fountaine VOs dicitis licet nos non licet inter licet vestrum non licet nostrum nutant remigant animi populorum Nemo vobis credat nemo nobis omnes contentiosi homines sumus Esto Quaerendi sunt iudices si Christiani de vtraque parte dari non possunt quia studijs veritas impeditur Deforis quaerendus est Iudex si paganus non potest nosse Christiana secreta si Iudaeus inimicus est Christiani baptismatis Ergo in terriâ— nullum de hac re reperiri poâ—erit iudictum de caelo quaerendus est Iudex Sed vt quid palsamus ad caelum cum habeamus hic in Euangelio testamentum Baro p. 328. ex Optato 1. HAuing answered what was obiected out of S. Augugustine he will vndertake for vs to satisfie that you bring from Optatus and where he lookes about for a Iudge to decide the controuersie moued by the Donatists this great Doctour doth answer yea the a S. Aâ—g contra Donatiâ—tas passim Specialiter vide li. 2. de Bapt c. 7 li 5. c. 23. li. 1. coâ—t Cresc c. 31. 32 whole Catholike world did agree that the matter was to be defined in Councell and that not by cleere scripture there was none but by tradition By the testament yes not the written but the nuncupatiue By the holie Ghost c S Aug suprà inter citat ex Ock lit 1. a iudge from heauen but speaking b in a Councell The whole world did iudge that this verie Controuersie whereof Optatus speakes was to be determined so and accordinglie it was so determined and ended Neither doth Optatus denie that which all Catholikes when Saint Augustine wrote graunted and he himselfe yeelded as much of the c Serpit corum sermo vâ—lut cancer dixit hoc de haereticis quorum caeperat esse illis temporibus vitiosa doctrina c. Dictum est hoc de Arrio cuius doctrina nisi Nicaeno Concilio à 318. Episcopis dissiparetur pectora multorum sicut cancer intrauerat Optat. Milleu li. 4. Nicene Councell of whose authoritie wee shall presentlie heare more from S. Anathasius who was in it that the Church which hath promise of assistance or the Pastors all assembled in a CouÌ„cell those whom the holie Ghost hath placed to gouerne and our Sauiour hath giuen to keepe vs from being borne about with euerie winde of doctrine haue power to determine a controuersie in Religion But the Donatists excepting against the Catholikes as parties in the cause he betakes himselfe to scripture against which being admitted on both sides that pretended exception had no place children that contend about a Legacie both admit their father testament and if there his words decide the controuersie they rest and so he pleades the Donatists must do when the words of our Sauiours will or testament be showed vnles they proceede as they had denied Church-authoritie so to denie that and him So on he goes to shewe the thing inscripture But what if the words of the testameÌ„t be obscure The matter then requires a Iudge and this Iudge must haue authoritie and assistance if the case be as this was about diuine faith which assistance none hath but by vertue of our Sauiours promise and his promise was made to none but to the Church not to Pagans nor heretikes but to the Church wherefore the Church is to iudge Yet further what if the words of the testament haue it not at all the question was Whether one baptized by an heretike was to be baptized againe when he came into the Church The answer to which Question you doe not finde in scripture the d Qui lotus est c. place which Optatus brings doth not mention such as were baptized by heretikes There is not in all scripture Saint Augustine saies an e Quamuia huius rei certè de scripturis canonicis non proferatur exemplum c. S. Aug. li. cont Cresc c. 33 vt suprà Apostoli nihil quidem exinde praeceperunt sed consuetudo illa quae opponebatur Cypriano ab eorum traditione exordium sumpsisse credenda est sicut sunt multa quae vniuersa tenet Ecclesia ob hoc ab Apostolis praecepta benè creduÌ„tur quanquam scripta non reperian tur li. 5. de bapt c. 23. Cùm in Scripturis non inueniamus aliquos c. De vnitate
rauening wolues in sheeps-clothing some and the Pastors driue them â—ot away because they know â—hem not The Disciples knew â—ot that one in the companie was a Deuil Wee are heere to â—reat of things manifest and to â—he Church and so farre that â—hey might be legallie proued against the men when they weâ—e â—e liuing and exteriorlie enâ—oyed the benefit of Commuâ—ion or are now to be seene 〈◊〉 their books bookes not â—ensured so cleerlie that it is â—nexcusablie vndeniable Your â—elf I suppose would require no lesse euidence to condemne a man and in so great a matter after death when he can speake no more for himself then was necessarie to q Reus non antè condemnandus est quaÌ„ si idoneis testibus vel apertissimis documentis vel indicijs indubitatis luce clarioribus coÌ„uict is fuerit aut propria coÌ„fessione c. Vide legem fi C. de Probationibus l. Qui sententiam 16. C. de poeâ— Neqâ—e manifestò constet incurrisse in sententiam excomun quod nullo modo potest occultari aut per aliquod reâ—â— edium iurâ—s excusari c. Extra Mart V. Adeuâ—anda condemne him when he was aliue To vndertake this Question in the latitude that I do is more then was necessarie for the defence of a generall traditionâ— more then can be showne for diuers partes of the New testamenâ— by you receaued but the poweâ— of the veritie will appeare thâ— better when it is found to hauâ— bene so vniuersallie manifest and so commonlie receaued that none by the Church esteemed Orthodoxe in their â—â—mes haue beene euer knownâ— though there were still occasion to looke vpon the authoritie of such Councels openlâ— to contradict it and auouch thâ— contrarie Neither could I well refuse it is a duetie in him that hath reaped benifit by their â—abours to come abroad and defend the iust honour of Perâ—ons wrongd who be not aâ—iue now to maintaine their owne credit APPROBATIO IN hoc libro cui titulus A RelectioÌ„ c. nihil est fidei Catholicae aut boâ—â—s moribus contrarium sed multa quae â—eritatem Catholicam confirmant Quaâ—opter dignum censui qui praelo comâ—ittatur Actum Duaci 22. Maij 1635. GEORGIVS COLVENERIVS S. Theol. Doctor eiusdem regius ordinariusque Professor Collegiatae Ecclesiae S. Petri Praepositus Vniuersitatis Duacensis Cancellarius librorum Censor Ex Disput li. 4. c. 5. pag. 377. OFfer not to cite any knowne Schismatike whose opinion is generallie by all Deuiâ—eâ— reiected cite no booke but what is at least tolerated in the Church and haue a care you proue that the man whom you cite doth himsef directlie and openlie asseuere and affirme the thing in Question Because it were but losse of time to speake of others such as either had their writings censured when they came to be knowne or durst not openlie auouch what they would to you seeme to say There are degrees in leauing the communion of the Church and the same partie at one time may be in it and at other time either out or in such an errour as if obstinacie were added to it would take him out Neither can the subtile dealing of any discontented person if he chance to step ouer shoes preiudâ—ce our cause or be taken for the tenet of the Church vnles the Church approue it and error it neuer did or will approue So there by way 〈◊〉 preuention howbeit you were not pleased to take notice of it And in the end of the leafe are cited some 〈◊〉 Ockams words Whose authoritie you scan first aâ— so will I for a reason not yours Which Will quicklâ— show it self THE QVESTION Whether any Deuines of the Catholike Communion haue openly and to the knowledge of those to whom it appertained to looke vnto the Church auouched and maintained of Councels entirelie oecumenicall such as were generall and approued that in Decrees of Faith they might mistake and erre YOV haue vndertaken the Affirmatiue and will be Plaintiff Your instance is in Austen Vincentius Lirinensis Athanasius amongst the Auncient and in Oâ—kam and Waldensis amongst the later To the same purpose others do cite Cameracensis Panormiâ—â—â— Stapleton Cusanus Clemangis and Canus and Baro who professedlie disputes the matter ioynes Optatus and Antoninus Franciscus Picus is alleaged some where too by the said Minister reciting the Opinions of some of these men What Councels he speakes of I do not intend to dispute being to looke into the Authors them selues and out of their owne Writings not out of other mens to learne their mind You will not be displeased if I put the places downe as Baro cites them that such as haue hiâ— booke which is publike may compare and iudgeâ— as they see cause §. I. 1. Ockam in a booke of his that is prohibited saies that some Christians comprehending Hereticks vnder the name seeme to think generall Councels some might erre 2. Fâ— brings in behalf of those men an argumentâ— proue it which argument is manifestlie deâ—cient In like manner he brings arguments proue that which he confesseth to be false as thought this also to be 3. He recites an opâ—nion whereof he saies he knew no abbettor thâ— speakes doubtfullie of the manner of assistin◠〈◊〉 and himself auoucheth the Authoritie of sincere generall Councels He toucheth obiter the question who doth approue and how and who declares them to be generall 4. His proceedings in this worke discommended QVia omnes Christiani sentire videntur quod tota multitudo Christianorum haereticari non potest quidam autem secundò quod nec Concilium generale aliqui verò tertiò quod nec Rom. Ecclesia nonnulli autem quartò quod nec Collegium Cardinalium aliqui verò quintò quod nec etiam Papa potest hatetica pollui prauitate Ideo de istis quinque quid sentiant Christiani cupio vt mihi reueles Baro. p. 359. ex Ockam dial li. 5. c. 1. 1. OCKAM All Christians doe seeme to thinke that the whole multitude of Christians caÌ„not become heretick but some Christians do seeme to thinke that neither a generall Councell Here first is not determined what generall Councells those people meane whether approued or not approued by the see Apostolike Seâ—ondly it is not said absolutly that they doe thinke and maintaine that Councells oecumenicall may propoâ—â—e and teach heresie but that some â—oe seeme to thinke that Generall Councels whether some or all is not here expressed may haereticari or haeretica prauitate pollui haereticate to keepe his termes or be stained with hereticall prauitie Thirdly it is not expressed who these Christians were whether Catholikes or Schismatickes And in case an excoÌ„municated persoÌ„ seeking how to maintaine Schismaticall proceedings in a book not tollerated but a Index lib. prohibit Conc. Trid. expresly forbidden should not avouch but seeme to think that Councels though generall might erre this could not make good what yoâ— professe to proue vzt that men 〈◊〉 our Communion haue in their curraâ—
decreuit à temporibus Apostolorum vsque ad praesens vel vsque in praesens per successiones Patrum id ipsum sapieÌ„tium atque docentium ei inquam credi debet sub poena perfidiae tom 1. doctrina 2. certifie â—hich bookes are scripture and that â—â—e can commend none in this naâ—â—re but such as were written in â—â—e Apostles e Ipsis patriincumbebat qui tunc praesidebaÌ„t Ecclesijs ducere scripturaruÌ„ volumina ad perfectum tunc enim fuit temporis plenitudo non dubium libri non reciperentur in authoritateÌ„ sacri canonis nisi qui de illis teÌ„poribus Apostolicis agereÌ„t tunc temporis essent quia aliter non facerent de diuinis rebus fidem summam Idem li. 2. c. 20. vt suprà daies but this is â—t to denie the present Church or Councell power to propose againe the same There were notwithstanding the Apostles approbation of diuers parts of the new testameÌ„t which approbation came not at least so manifestlie to the notice of all some who doubted of f Vide Disp pa. 431 or denied them as for example the Apocalyps and S. Iudes Epistle and the later oâ— S. Peter yet you your selues doe and Waldensis did receaue them aâ— the hands of the Church by thaâ— part which then liued when he did Neither doth Canus saie that hâ— denied a Councell power to propose bookes in the manner wee noâ— speake of but he saies onelie thaâ— he seemes to be of those who denie thâ— power to define which booke is Canonicall to belonge chieflie to a generâ— Councell It is one thing to saie thâ— a Councell can doe it another tâ— saie the power belongs chieflie 〈◊〉 the Councell as you will perceaâ— by the declaration of the next placâ— obiected Waldensis as Canus worâ— import seemed to denie not the foâ—mer but the later neither doth 〈◊〉 saie that he denied it but that 〈◊〉 did seeme to doe so some things thâ— â—hilosophers vse to saie do seeme 〈◊〉 be and are not and some thing â—emes to one otherwise many tiâ—es then to an other Had it been so â—deed I make no question but that â—ou who haue been diligent in your â—inde to seeke in him what might â—e brought against vs would not â—aue omitted to relate the words When you seeke for them next â—ou will finde in him first as I said â—efore that in his exclusiue he speaâ—es of bookes not written in the Aâ—ostles time or before to which purâ—ose he g Waldens li. 2. fid doc c. 20. brings the place of scriâ—ture Dominus narrabit in scripturis â—opulorum principum horum qui â—uerunt in ea with S. Ieroms Comment on it wherein are these words vt exceptis Apostolis quodcunque aliud â—osteà dicitur abscindatur non habeat â—osteà authoritatem And to the same â—enour he himselfe a litle after let vs â—ote the differences of Scripture because the scripture or writing onlie of â—he Princes that is of the Apostles hath after our lord the crowne of authoritie I meane of canonicall authoritie for the saying of the Saincts which followed them haue their authoritie bâ— not canonicall Secondlie whereas 〈◊〉 might be obiected that the Churcâ— in a generall Councell might wriâ— a booke and put it into the canon 〈◊〉 scripture to be among other bookâ— of holie writt since S. Gregorie thâ— great doth professe to honour theâ— as the Gospels in those words h S. Greg. mag li. 1. Regesti epist 24. citatur in Decret d. 15 Quintum quoque Concilium pariter venerot Ibidem Sicut Sancti Euangelij quatuor libros 〈◊〉 quatuor concilia suscipere veneraâ—me fateor Waldensis there answere to this argument and expounds thâ— words of S. Gregorie Thirdlie because it might againe be obiecteâ— out of the decrees whence the former obiection was taken that i Gelasius c. Sancta Romana d. 15. Nec obstat Pelagiana epistola de librâ—s recipiendis non recipâ—eÌ„dâ—s vbi scripturaruÌ„ libros in authoritate pleâ—â—râ—a quomodo sint habendi denunciat noÌ„ ad authoritatem per seipsum in instaurat walden vbi supra Pelagius the Pope seemes to determine what bookes are to be receaued into the canon and what not he answers with a distinction which doth explaine his minde and dotâ— suffice to stopp your mouth wheâ— occasion require Scripturarum libâ— saith he in authoritate plenaria quâ— modo sunt habendi denunciat non 〈◊〉 authoritatem per scipsum instaurâ— That is in briefe he doth not giue but declare their sacred and diuinâ— â—thoritie And the same the Church 〈◊〉 all times might and may doe â—hensoeuer there shall be cause â—hey were by the holy Ghost inâ—red and written by the Apostles â—d Princes of the Church qui fueâ—t in ea and were approued by them 〈◊〉 but it hath beene since necessaâ— to declare some of them to giue â—timonie that they be diuine and â—s testimonie the Church still can â—e Neither is our Sauiour offenâ—d with her testimonie giuen to 〈◊〉 word who was pleased that she â—ould giue testimonie of himâ—fe Of which matter this author â—th much in the former Chapters â—eciallie the eighteenth Fourthlie 〈◊〉 doth esteeme the iudgment of 〈◊〉 Pope and of a perfect Councell â—e infallible as you will heare beâ—e wee leaue him and therefore â—ch more is he to be esteemed to â—eld this honour to the whole wheâ— they be All which being conâ—ered that which you did vrge out 〈◊〉 Canus so appeares that it is but a â—ere videtur without an est vnâ— it HAec est sola machinae Christiana quae cunctas haereses mel aboleuit ipsa sc professio concors sanctorum Patrâ— secundum suorum temporum interualla reddentium testiâ—nium Christi verbis consuetudini primitiue Baro p. 3â— ex wald to 3. de Sacramentalibus doct 3. 3. THirdlie it is inferred that 〈◊〉 takes infallibilitie froÌ„ Couâ—cells and from the present Churcâ— because he saith that the vnanimâ— profession of the holie Fathers giuâ— testimonie according to the distanceâ— their times to the * Latiùs patet verbum quà m scriptura words of Christ 〈◊〉 the primitiue custome is the oâ—â— Christian engine which hath once â—â—lished all Heresies Wherevnto I aâ—swere first that he speakes withâ— exclusion of the Church presentâ— each heresie for it is well knowâ— that the Church which did aboâ—â— Arianisme and Nestorianisme 〈◊〉 the rest of the heresies before 〈◊〉 times was that Church whâ— knewe of them and that she diâ— by her Pastors and for the most pâ— in Councells though not without 〈◊〉 censent of that part of the Chuâ—â—â— and those her Pastors which liâ—â— in the precedent ages which o◠〈◊〉 or agreeable profession was â—nd partlie by their bookes as in 〈◊〉 acts of the Councells appeares â—his daie and partlie by the tradiâ— of the particular Churches wheâ— they had liued and died Which â—â—nner the Church doth still obserâ— in condemning heresies as they
intellecta vel à nobis S. Aug epist 111. Other bookes haue not in euerie part that infallibilitie other writers haue not such ample assistance as the Sacred writers had SI diuinarum scripturarum earum sc quae canonicae in Ecclesia nominantur perspicua firmatur authoritate sine vllae dubitatione credendum est Alijs verò testibus vel testimonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi credere vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti ad faciendam fidem vel habere vel non habere perpenderis Baro p. 336. ex Aug. epist 112. 2. THe Second exception is that S. Augustine in an other place Epist 112. speakes not of writings only but of witnesses and leaues it as it is pretended in our choise whether wee will beleeue or not beleeue any but the Scripture Wherevnto I answer that he doth not either there or in any other place of his writings reiect all authoritie or testimonie that is other in your sence binding vs onlie to the scripture so as you pretend For it is manifest that he doth admit the testimonie of the Church as infallible esteeming it c S. August epist. 118. c. 5. most insolent madnes to contradict it yet the Church is not scripture To this purpose there be many places in him whereof I will cite one In his booke de Vnit. Eccl. disputing with an heretick about the Question of rebaptizing such as out of the Church had been baptized and vrging the custome of the Church which did receaue such as were penitent into communion without rebaptizing he makes this discourse d S. Aug. de vnit Eccles c. 19. If some wise man to whom our Lord Iesus giues testimonie should be consulted of vs in this Question wee ought no waies to doubt of doing or putting in execution what he tould vs least wee should be esteemed to repugne not so much him as our Lord Iesus Christ by whose testimonie he was commended now our Lord Iesus doth giue testimonie to his Church wherefore as that Church diffused thorough all Nations beginning at Hierusalem doth receaue such penitents so without all windings and tergiuersation thou art to be receaued And if thou wilt not thou doest most perniciouslie cōtrarie to thy owne saluation striue against not me or any mā but our Sauiour himselfe whilst thou wilt not beleeue that thou art so to be admitted as that Church which he whom not to beleeue thou doest confesse to be detestable commends with his testimonie doth admit The same is confirmed out of the Gospell wherein our blessed sauiour saith to his Apostles and Disciples and in them to the Church that they should beare e Matth. 24. Ioan. 15 testimonie of him yet the Apostles the Disciples the whole Church be not Scripture Againe f Luc. 10. he that heareth you heareth me saith our Sauiour he that contemneth you contemneth me There is therefore an authoritie aliue and distinct from the written word which wee must yeeld vnto by S. Augustine also confessed and consequentlie it is not in our choise to beleeue or contemne any but the scripture Nor were the primitiue Christians without obligation of beleeuing the Gospell proposed vnto them by the Apostles before it was written downe as you knowe by those words which immediatelie followe their commission g Marc. vlt. he that beleeueth not shall be condemned To the place obiected Supra pag 107. alijs testibus vel testmonijs quibus aliquid credendum esse suadetur tibi creder◠vel non credere liceat quantum ea momenti c. Pag. 108. his words aboue cited doe suggest an easie answer as this Others not commended by this authoritie beleeue or not beleeue as you see cause but others commended by this authoritie you must beleeue as farre as by it they are warranted and commended Our Sauiour proued that those who beleeued Moyses and the Prophets and the Psalmes must beleeue him for of him they giue testimonie The like it is of the Church if you beleeue the Prophets you must beleeue the vniuersall Church for they giue testimonie of it and as S. Augustine saith more cleere then of our i S. Augu. Enarr in psal 30. conc 2. Sauiour himselfe One testimonie may warrant another and so they will become in a manner one He that obaieth the magistrate doth therein honour the Prince by whom he is put in authoritie And he that yeildeth all due reuerence to Princes doth therein a dutie vnto God who commands it Wee stoope to God when with all reuerence we receaue his word written or vnwritten and wee submit our selues to the written word or Scripture when wee listen to the Church which the Scripture doth commend When S. Augustine in his dispute with Cresconius about rebaptization was come this k S. Aug. li. 1. contra Cresco c. 31. 32. quia nec vos potestis proferre de Scripturis quarum nobis communis est authoritas ab haereticis venientem denuò baptizatum nec nos ita susceptum quantum ad hanc remattinet par nobis causa est Since neither you can produce out of Scriptures whose authoritie is common to vs one comming from Heretikes againe baptized nor wee one so receaued for as much as concernes this matter that is producing out the Scripture an example of the one or the other our cause is equall he shewes notwithstanding how euen in this point the Church in his time and he with it followed the most certaine authoritie of the Scripture l Ibidem c. 35. neque enim paruï momenti c. for it is not of small regard or moment that whe among the Bishops of the age precedent to the time when Donatus part or faction began to be this Question did wauer and had the different Opiniōs of compartners or collegues amongst themselues without breach of vnitie it was thought good that this which wee now maintaine should be obserued by the whole Catholike Church spred ouer all the world And a litle after wherefore though trulie there be not any example of this thing brought out of the canonicall Scriptures yet the truth of the same Scriptures is held of vs and euen in this thing when wee doe that which hath now seemed good to the vniuersall Church whom the authoritie of the same Scriptures doth commend that because the holie Scripture cannot deceaue whosoeuer feares to be deceaued with the obscuritie of this Question and of any other obscure Question pertaining to faith it is the same eandem Ecclesiam de illa consulat let him require in it the iudgment of the same Church which the holie Scripture without ambiguitie doth demonstrate There is yet a further Answer in the word Alijs You know that actions donne with ones owne hād by the motion of his owne spirit a man reputes not aliene but his owne So doth our B. Sauiour esteeme the actions of his mysticall bodie donne by the motion of his Spirit Settle
canonicis aliquando fuerint coÌ„parata aut possunt etiam ipsi de Scripturis sanctis proferre CoÌ„cilium vbi Apostoli iudices sederint accusatum aliquem damnauerint vel absoluerint Et tamen respondebimus eis etiam Prophetas libros praenotatis definitis commendasse temporibus quo anno cuius regis c. S. Aug. li. cont Donatist post Collat. c. 15. Requiring of the Catholikes to shewe any where out of Scripture where the daies and consuls were registred and enrolled Wherevnto S. Augustine answers that Councells are not parallelled with Scripture the one to wit the Councell may doe well in registring both daies and Consuls though the other doe not so or they may be added and not by the authoritie of the Councell though nothing be registred in the Scripture but by the direction of the holie Ghost The acts of Councells are not equalized in exactnes and extent of infallibilitie to the books written by Gods Secretaries wee giue the prerogatiue to the Scriptures and so do the words obiected out of S. Augustine which are cited in the margine In the same place whence they were taken he tels how the Catholikes did forbeare to examine why in one Councell the daie was noted and in the other not quia illi Donatistae vanas moras volebant innectere and all heretikes are of the same condition they hinder with impertinent Cauills the processe of the Catholikes argumeÌ„ts and catch at all occasions to trifle out the time For the same cause disputing in another place with an Arian he did forbeare to vrge against him the authoritie of the Councell of Nice against which the heretick tooke exceptions opposing the Ariminian Councell The examen of which two points thereby called into controuersie I meane the lawfulnes of the one and the vnlawfullnes of the other would haue taken vp the time and transferd the dispute into another question which heretikes greedilie desire when they cannot answer but S. Augustine would not permit that scope to his aduersarie and therefore hauing mentioned the two foresaid Councells and in honour of the one which had defined the thing he was disputing of said it p S. Aug li. 3. contra Max. c. 14. was there veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum established by the authoritie of truth and truth of authoritie and contrariwise of the other that there were multi paucorum fraude decepti many deceaued by the fraude or circumuention of a fewe whereby hereticall impietie endeuoured to weaken what the Catholike fathers in the power of truth and authoritie had established Sed nunc nec ego NicenuÌ„ nec tu debes Ariminense tanquam praeiudicaturus proferre Concilium nec ego huius authoritate nec tu illius detineris Scripturarum authoritatibus noÌ„ quorumque proprijs sed vtrisque communibus testibus c Baro p. 337. ex Aug. hauing I saie mentioned these two Councells he forbeares to vrge his argument out of the authoritie of the Nicene Councell and makes it out of that authoritie which his aduersarie did admit thereby the sooner to conclude being so to dispute onlie about the meaning of the words he was to bring and needing not to argue for his authoritie whose words they were But now for both of vs be content with this course neither doe I the Nicene neither oughtest thou as by way of preiudice produce the Ariminian Councell neither am I held in with the authoritie of this the Ariminian nor thou of that the Nicene thou doest assume to thy selfe the libertie not to obaie it and out * Infrà in fi huius relectionis ad sextum of thy malice art not held in with that great authoritie though thou and all others ought to be since q Hoc est illud homousion quod in Concilio Nicaeno aduersus haereticos Arianos à Catholicis Patribus Veritatis authoritate authoritatis veritate firmatum est quod postea in Concilio Ariminensi propter nouitatem in verbis minus quam oportuit intellectum quam tamen fides antiqua peperaâ— multis paucorum fraude deceptis haeretica impietas sub haeretico Imperatore Constantio labefactare tentauit Sed post non longum tempus libertate Catholicae fidei praeualente c. S. Aug. li 3. contra Maxim c. 14. Sed nunc nec ego c. vt supra in marg Ibidem the authoritie of truth it selfe which cannot lie doth there establish the thing which wee dispute of See what S. Athanasius hath testified of the authoritie of that Councell to conuince Heretiks Efficax ad omnem impietatem euertendam c. infrà in Addition ad Athan. PEtit Augustinus à Donatistis vt Ecclesiam suam demonstrent Non in sermonibus rumoribus Afrorum non in Concilijs Episcoporum suorum non in literis quorumlibet disputatorum non in signis prodigijs fallaâ—ibus c. sed in praescripto legis in Prophetarum praedictis in Euangelistarum praedicationibus Baro. p. 337. in eandem sententiam plura p. 338. 4. THe fourth exception out of S. Augustine is that disputing with the Donatists he vrged them to shewe by Scripture how theirs and not the Catholike or vniuersall was the true Church and would not haue the matter tryed by their Councells I answer that though the Church once knowne and her authoritie admitted that will serue to determine controuersies as you heard S. Augustine saie before yet when the Question is of the Church it selfe Whether it be a thing in the intention of our Sauiour confined to one Nation or extended ouer all and with an Aduersarie who doth admit Scripture the way to demonstrate against him vt ex tuis concessionibus c. S. Aug. li. con Cresc c. 33. the way I saie to demonstrate against him is to looke vpon the Prophecies and see the description of it there and to harken withall what our Sauiour in the Gospell hath deliuered of it The Donatists with whom S. Augustine deales admitted the canonicall bookes wherein these two things are and they being once admitted the Question might be defined out of them And of the testimonies of the Lawe and Prophets and Psalmes and of our blessed Sauiour himselfe in this controuersie of the Church S. Augustine said vnto the Donatists r S. Aug. de vnit Eccles cap. 16. haec sunt caâ—sae nostrae documenta haec fundamenta haec firmamenta the cause he speakes of was Whether the Donatists iâ— Africk or the Catholikes in all Nations were the Church whether 〈◊〉 were a thing confined vnto the limits of that contrey or extended ouer all the world according to Gods intention and the testimonies of our Sauiour and of the Law and of the Prophets and Psalmes these testimonies he saith were documents and foundations and establishments of this cause He was not to proue it out of Councells for he that denies the whole doth withall reiect the authoritie of each part or what euer is within the whole
Ecclesiae c. 19. example of it Shall the matter then rest and the Donatists against the custome and practize of the Church obtaine the cause There is yet a remedie and this is to call a Councell from all parts of the world and there by the promised assistance to decide it Which was done accordinglie and in the heart of the Church symbolicall the booke wherein Christian Religion is written by the spirit of the liuing God it was found and brought to light and proposed And to this iudgment all Catholikes afterward did subscribe and S. Cyprian also who in his time thought the other more probable would if wee beleeue Saint Augustine most willinglie haue donne and such as would not hauing notice of it were and are accounted Heretikes 2. Hence that I note this by the way wee take an Argument against you to proue by the iudgment of Antiquitie two things 1. that the Church can propose and oblige vs to beleeue that which she hath receaued onlie by word of mouth 2. that our Sauiour did not limit his promised Assistance to fundamentalls onlie Not onlie to fundamentals nor onlie to the written word Wee haue I saie in these two things the iudgment of the Church which was in and before Saint Augustines daies against you They did inquire diligentlie what had beene taught formerlie what tradition had been left in the Church by those who first planted Religion in it they made recourse to the fountaine Which kind of proceeding for the resolution of difficulties had beene commended to them from the f Quid enim si de aliqua modica quaestione disceptatio esset noÌ„ne oporteret in antiquissimas recurrere Ecclesias in quibus Apostoli conuersati sunt ab ijs de praesenti quaestione sumere quod certum reliquidum est Quid autem si neque Apostoli quidem Scripturas reliquissent nobis nonne oportebat ordinem sequi Traditionis quam tradiderunt ijs quibus committebant Ecclesias cuâ—â—ordinationi assentiunt multae gentes Barbarorum eorum qui in Christum credunt sinc charactere vel atramento scriptam habentes per Spiritum in cordibus suis salutem veterem traditionem diligenter custodientes c. S. Irenaeus adu Haeres li 3. c 4. cuius capitis initio Non oportet inquit adhuc quaerere apud alios veritatem cùm Apostoli quasi in depositorium diues plenissimè in ea Ecclesia contulerint omnia quae sint veritatis vti omnis quicunque velit sumat ex ea potum vitae Et Optatus in hanc sententiam Nam fontem inquit constat vnam esse de dotibus vnde Haeretici non possunt vel ipsi bibere vel alios potare ita li. 2. Caeterùm lege in Irenaeo c. 3. li. 3. vbi de traditione praeclarè disserit In compendio est apud religiosas simplices mentes errorem deponere inuenire atque cruere veritatem Nam si ad diuinae Traditionis caput originem reuertamur cessat error humanus sacramentorum coelestium ratione perspecta quicquid sub caligine ac nube tenebrarum obscurum latebat in lucem veritatis aperitur Si canalis aquam ducens qui copiosè priùs largiter profluebat subitò deficiat nonne ad fontem pergitur vt illic defectionis ratio noscatur vtrumne arescentibus venis in capite vnda siccauerit siccata sit an verò integra inde plena procurrens in medio itinere destiterit vt si vitio interrupti aut bibuli canalis effectum est quo minus aqua continua perseueranter ac iugiter flueret refecto confirmato canali ad vsum atque potum ciuitatis aqua collecta eadem vbertate atque integritate representetur qua de fonte proficiscitur Quod nunc facere oportet Dei Sacerdotes praecepta diuina seruantes vt si aliquo nutauerit vacillauerit veritas ad originem Dominicam Euangelicam Apostolicam Traditionem reuertamur inde surgat actus nostri ratio vnde ordo origo surrexit S. Cyprianus Epist 74 ad Pompeium De qua ep vide S. Aug li. 5. contra Donat. c. 23 25. Vide etiam de modo veritatem inuestigandi Tertullianum lib. de Praescript c. 19. 20. 21. c. beginning and was in after-ages still approued as appeares by the * See the Tomes of Councels practice of the Church vpoÌ„ all occasions of importance §. XI Saint Athanasius esteemed it a vaine thing for those who would not stand vnto the Nicene decree to call for Councels He did esteeme the decree of it infallible Of diuers infallible Authorities one may he more powerfull and commaunding then another FRustra igitur circumcursitantes praetexerunt ob fidem se Synodos postulare cum sit diuina Scriptura omnibus potentior Quod si ad hanc rem vsus Synodi desideratur supersunt acta patrum nam neque in hac parte negligentes fuere qui Niceae conuenerunt sed ita accuratè scripserunt vt qui sinceriter eorum scripta legat facilè reminiscatur eius in Christum religionis quae à sacris literis annunciatur Baro. p. 327. ex Athanasio S. ATHANASIVS was at the Councell of Nice where the Arian heresie was anathematized and the Catholike faith established yet he is also brought against the authoritie of all generall Councells first because he tels the Arians who would not staÌ„d to the iudgmeÌ„t of that CouÌ„cell which was oecumenicall and yet cried out for Councells that in vaine they runne about the world pretending they required Councells for the faith whereas the diuine scripture is more powerfull then all Secondlie because he saith that who so reades the writings or acts of the Nicene fathers they will easilie call to minde that Religion which is showed in holie scripture I am not yet so learned as to conceaue how the infallibilitie of CouÌ„cels is any waie contradicted in these words so farre I am from thinking that this great Saint did forget himselfe and vndoe what with others he before had donne The decree of the Nicene Councell together with the Acts did so bring to minde the faith commended in the scripture that withall it had force he saith enough to a Quis vsus quaeso Conciliorum quum Nicaenum CoÌ„cilium aduersus Arianam caeterasque haereses satis valeat S. Athanas de Synodis Indecens nefarium aliquid ex rectè iustè decretis ex rebus Niceae publicè cum illustrissimo principe Constantino patre tuo per accuratam deliberationem constitutis immutare velle c. per quam Synodum non illa sola sed reliquae haereses sublatae sunt in qua certè addere aliquid temerarium est auferre periculosum Ibidem epist Synod ad Constantium August â—ufficiunt ea quae Niceae confessa fuere satisque per se viâ—um habent tum ad subuersionem impij dogmatis tum ad â—telam vtilitatemque