peraphrasticall amplification and genuine application thereof so that both you and the World may read as it were in text letters your own abstâ—…act from that of mine when you please and signing the Titles of the CCClergy whether true or surreptitious with three letters in the front as C. C. C. P P P c. most commonly when I speak of â—…hem in the lump to denote the three P P Parts into which that great City B B Babylon which they make stands divided I proceed as followeth That Herestes must be the Apostle hath said yet it makes no more for a tolleration of them in the true Church I mean though others mean in the civil state than that of our Saviour of offences saying foreseeing no question how by means of the Clergies crying out Heresie Heresie Schism against the way of truth being once turned aside to Heresie themselves the world would be offended at his little ones for walking in it They must come but wo to the man by whom they come the Apostle reckons Herestes among the works of the flesh Idolatry Witchcraft c. Gal. 5. 20. which alone to argument sufficient against the Patronagâ—… and Invitation of them unless withal license in the true Church should be given to all other carnal sins why should the Church of God upon Earth make much of those against whom the Kingdome of Heaven shall be â—…ut her pale is not so strong to keep them out from breaking in upon her like wild bores and wolves to spoil and wast her but her good will should not be so great to them as to wellcome them in to her fellowship till they repent from their dead works of superstition bloody tenet of persecution for cause of conscience worshipping God after mens traditions blaspheming the name of God and his Tabernacle and them that dwell in heaven trampling the holy City Heresie Schism from the primitive truth c Neverthelesse how beit to tolerate and harbour Hereticks in communion with them whilest they oppose the true way of Christ would be an error and an evill too intollerable in a true Church of Christ yet I hold that opinion of the C C Clergy not onely intollerably Heretical in it self but intollerably hurtful also to themselves that Hereticks may not be tolerated in a civil state for if Fines Prisons Banishments Racks Wâ—…ips Tortures headings hangings burningâ—… and such like punishments with the civil sword were the due of every Heretick and Schismatick in the faith as the C C Clergy have for ages and Generations born the world in hand that they are to the causing of all these their national Church censures to be inflicted on the Saints when they have once blindly sentenct them to be Schismaticks to the civil power if this I say were the due of every Heretick or Schismatick and every true Heretick and Schismatick had his due too good Lord how have the C C Clergy condemned themselves out of their own mouthes to devastation when the civil powers shall find them to be the Arch-Hereticks in the world if taking them at their word they shall do with them as they say they ought to do in this case concerning others but God forbid that with what judgement they judge they should be judged and with what measure they meet it should be measured to them again at our suggestion if their own Cheek-by-jole carriage to the Stern-men of the State do not pull it unavoidably upon themselves yea verily though as far as those that oppose themselves against the truth of Christ they may well challenge the name of Schismaticall Hereticks and though Amen might justly be said by the Magistrate in this point to the opinion of Gangraena and his Gang and might Amen be said to his wise wishes as concerning us who teach and practise baptism in its primitive fashion we could expect to be suffered in the Common-wealth no more then High-way Murderers yet dare we not desire their extirpation out of any of their native rights in the several states wherein they are nor such uncivill suppression of them meerly for their erroneous Tenets as they have sollicited the higher powers to concerning us we have not so learned Christ nor would they if they had heard him and had been taught by him as the truth is in Jesus for howere it comes to passe that the C C Clergy whose own the worst would he if that were true and execution done accordingly are so besotted as to believe that Hereticks and Schismaticks from the faith men of false waies worships religions though elsewise never so peaceable and innocent must not onely be dischurched but discommunicated also from the patronage of the civil power and cut off from the priviledges of other Subjects yet neither Christ nor any of his Apostles as from him gave any order for such rigid rejection indeed the Apostle Paul wills in his Epistle to Titus cap. 3. who was a Church officer that a Heretick after a second and third admonition be rejected i. e. from the Church and Gal. 5. 12. wishes that they were cut off from the Church that did trouble the Church and Rev. 2. 20. 21. the Church of Thyatira was reproved for suffering that woman Iezebel which calleth her self a prophetesse to teach and seduce his servants to fornication i. e. false worships c. but it will noâ—… follow therefore that such may not have license to live civilly in civil states for the weapons of the Churches warfare wherewith she is to fight against Heresies and which she is ever to have in readinesse to revenge all disobedience to Christ by are noâ—… carnall 2 Cer. 10. 4 5 6. not such as are used by the officers of States but onely spirituall as admonition reproof and in case of obstinacy putting out from among them delivering up to Satan and not delivering up to the secular power as the Popish Priesthood used to do when any of their creatures specially of their Clerico-creatures turned Hereticks i. e. departed from their Heresies to the truth saying pray take him into your power and be merciful to him meaning hang or burn him for a Heretick The Church I say is neither to use the carnal weapons of the State nor yet to stirr up the State so to use them on 〈◊〉 and truths behalf as to imprison sine hang burn or banish false worshippers unbelievers misbelievers or Hereticks further then they are withall as by meer unbelief they are not offenders against the civil State I find the Lord Christ foretelling by himself and his Apostles that for the most part the more is the pitty the Rulers Kings Governours and Princes of the world would be such enemies against his Gospel that his Disciples should be hald before them as evill doors for his names sake Matth. 10 18. that not many mighty and noble men would own his truth 1 Cor. 1. 26. that rich men would oppresse the Church and draw them before their Judgement seats and
what need else of causing the pulpit to be washed as I have heard one of our Kentish Clergy men did his after two tradesmen had preached there in his absence they think they are men meliore luto of some better mould and taller by far in Gods affections then the People are This conceit makes them go apart look upon themselves as sons of Anack their Brethren as Grashoppers shun commerce and society with them as with publicans and sinners In detestation of whom as not consecrated they say Odi Profanum vulgâ—…s and in a kind of proverbiall spel procul hinc procul este profani anâ—… as dislike of others so 2. Dislike of their own places is another cause of the Heresies of the Clergy the foot will be the hand or not of the body the hand will be the head or else will be no body at all the Servant regarding neither the Councell nor the command nor the Example of his Master who came not to minister to but to minister and gave in charge that there should be no dominion among his disdiples and bade them that meant to be greatest to be last and least would needs be above his Master and he that was sent greater then he that sent him and by this he entred exceedingly into error the Minister could not indure to be the foot to have the whole body of the Church stand above himself though sure if he were as a king is Major singulis yet he is Minor omnibus and must stoop to the vote of the congregation he could not bear it to be the hand onely to execute what the head directed in but he must be the head to give laws and ordinances of his own Corah could not be content with his place but sought the Priests Office the CCClergy could not be contented with such Shepheardship as the Gospel had at first but they must need be made Priests after that more pompous way of the law nor to be Priests onely in sensu diviso from all the Saints but they must seek the High Priests office too and have Arch-Patriachs Arch-Bishops Lord Bishops c. they could not brook it to be amonst the Saints as them that serve but they must be as they that sit at meat having all others to serve them and in no mean manner neither have some of their Holinesses been served when Kings and Emperours have stood bâ—…e before them bare foot at their dooâ—…s as Henry the fourth Emperour and his wife and son did at Pope Adrians gate before they were admitted to the speech of him and not onely so but held their stirrups also and lay down to have their necks trod upon by him as Frederick Barbarossa did to Pope Gregory saying non tibi sed Petro and was answered again by the proud Prelate et 〈◊〉 et Petro in a word have held it honour enough to kiss his feet In the state Absoloms ambition O that I were a Iudge was the cause of his rebellion and the same kind of aspiring mind after no lesse then all power both in heaven and earth Church and State too made the Clergy when time best served their ambitious turn to rebell so abominably against all civil power as not onely to exempt themselves fully from the jurisdiction of Temporal Princes but most wickedly to subjugate all civil power to such depency on them and their Lord God the Pope that when they have not been slaves to the Clergies Imperious will and carnal concernments he hath took upon him to act according to that power he claimes most blasphemously saying by me Kings raign to force them to surrender their crownes and sacrifice their lives too to his lust witnesse the case of King Iohn here in England and in scorn to kick off the crowns of Emperours with his feet and in testimony of their taking all civill power as well as spiritual to themselves Eugenius the second took on him within the Roman territory the authority of creating Earls Dukes and Knights as the Exarchate had done before him Helin p. 182. also Innocent the third held a councel in Rome in which it was enacted that the Pope should have the correction of all Christian Princes and that no Emperour should be acknowledged till he had sworn obedience unto him Helin p. 184. upon the same ambitious account Pope Boniface the eight by a general bull exempted the Clergy from all taxes and subsidies to Temporal Princes whereupon Edward the first put the Clâ—…gy out of the protection of him and his laws by which course the Popes bull left râ—…ring here in England He. G. p. 184. the same Boniface boasted one day in his pontisicâ—…l attire with the keyes of the Kingdom of heaven in his hand that all spiritual power was committed to him and the next day in the Robes of an Emperour with a naked sword born before him that all civill power was committed to him also ecce duo gladii hic yea after the translation of the Eâ—…pire from France to Germany the Popes began to make open protestation that the Pontifical dignity was rather to give laws to the Emperours then to receive any from them Helin G. p. 188. and as in the state ambition so in the Church the desâ—…re of a change from Membership to Mastership from Servantship to Lordship over the true Clergy is the true cause of the Clergies Heresie and Schism for being raised by earthly power and greatnesse they forgot the sal vation of souls sanctity of life and the commandements of God propgation of Religion charity toward men and to raise armes to make warre against Christians to invent new devises for getting money to prophane sacred things for their own end to enrich their kindred and children was their onely study saith Helin out of Guiciardine Geog. p. 188. 3. Gloriae secularis â—…ucupium a desire to be somebody Iudas Thudas Simon Magus are Instances of it which Simon sin'd and erred so grossely out of his vain glorious desire to be lookt upon as some great one as to offer to buy the gift of the holy spirit for money of which sin and error of Simon no men under heaven are more guilty then the CCClergy for as they endeavour to to get gifts and endowments for the honour office of ministry in the Church by laying out money at Schooles and purchasing to themselves degrees as if the spirit must undoubtedly gift men for the Ministry that mean to bestow themselves that way when once they are train'd up to be Masters of Arts in the university so to say nothing how they pay for their ordination and actual admission into the function it self when so fitted though themselves call it Simony or the sin of Simon to buy spiritual livings these with them we see are the gifts of the holy spirit yet such is their unsatiable greedinesse after glory and greatnesse in the world that as hateful a sin as Simony seems to be among them few of their
literature I did indeed acknowlege my self to be a Dunce and a Fool but as to your bringing me in here as branding my self with the name of Ass I must protest against it as one of those scandalous and false aspersions with many more of which this story of yours is stored in trial of which I appeal to a letter sent to me some few dayes after the Disputation from an eminent gentleman then of your party my answer whereunto you cavill at but care not for answering at all your selves wherein he writes thus to me as concerning this present passage viz. If any man should ask my opinion now notwithstanding your seeming modesty to term your self Dunce and fool I should be apt to conclude with the proverb that to me you did appear by much more knave than fool either therefore this gentlemans memory was better than yours or else your faculty of forging is greater than his and this is most likely of the two for though he reviles me through ignorance of what I am yet I think he spake plainly what he thought and repeated no more than what I spake of my self but you oportet mendacem esse memorem whether wittingly or no it concerns you to examine have most grosly falsified my words that you may fasten the fouler blemish upon my person this language you learn'd be like from Dr. Featly who very often al-to-be-asses the Anabaptists calling his argument from circumcision to Infant-baptism in respect of the Anabaptists Pontem Asinorum a bridge which these Asses could never pass over p. 40. also in his preface to the Reader wherein rating the russet Rabbies for preaching against the errors of the Priest-hood what quoth he are all the Prophets become mad that the Asses mouth must needs be open by miracle to reprove them nor doth he say so altogether without some reason for verily we were all once Ass-assinated so farre as most Christ'n creatures are still as to yield our selves up to be â—…id by Balaam the false Prophet i. e. Assemblies and Classes of the Clergy who love Tythes the wages of their unrighteousness and take toll of all people for deluding them till upon a time we saw the Angel of the Lord with his sword ready drawn in his hand to destroy him as he was riding us to defie Israel since when refusing to go with him any further though he smites us of Dumb Asses as we were before we are become the Lord opening our mouths a people speaking with mans voice and forbidding the madness of the Prophet Moreover I may well excuse your calling me Asse by craft whilst you condescend to call your selves unawares by the same name of Fools and Asses for do but mark what you here say of me and how you make it agree with your selves he said say you that he was a fool and an asse and that which he said of himself out of a voluntary humility the Ministers did acknowledge i. e. of themselves out of a sense of their wants fallere fallentem non est fraus Report You tell us further that you prayd the Congregation that since you were not the men appointed for the Disputation but onely undertook it that the truth might not be wholly deserted and the current of slanders which was likely to rush in against it might be somewhat interrupted by the seasonable interposing of your selves they would not suffer any defects of yours to prejudice the cause that it was the truth on your side did animate you to undertake it which you were ready to evince by the Arguments following leaving the success to God to whom onely it belonged to convince the understanding Reply Here 's much talk of the truth and the truth but the truth is your undertakings have been ever a deserting of the truth as it is in Iesus and causes of a current of flanders that rush in against it in every parish from the mouthes of your Priest-rid people who living under your constant out-cries of Heresie Schism and such like upon all that suits not with your covetous interest have learnt exactly to speak in your tongue as if they had been spit out of your mouthes as for your seasonable interposure it is by so much unseasonable as t' will prove successess to your ends for though while the Clergies will was the worlds law their interposings did interrupt all arisings of truth yet now t is the time of the end wherein men wil run to and fro and you labor in the fire and weary your selves for very vanity to uphold your thred-bare traditions for the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea Report The sum of the Disputation held at Ashford in Kent Iuly 27. Reply Had these two brief businesses which you stile above the sum of my position and here the sum of the Disputation been stilled some of the position some of the Disputation or a little of one and a little of t'other you had bin in the right on 't for there 's scarce so much as some of either As for the Position you have dispos'd on 't out of the way and diminisht the Disputation into nothing almost in comparison of the true proportion of both Now as to this piece of business which you stile the sum of the Disputation I must talk with it two wayes and deal with it under this double notion First as t is a Relation of the then Disputation Secondly as t is your Disputation for Infant-baptism I shall shew the falsness of the one and the foolishness of the other and then come to review your Review your relation so you term it is most manifestly false if not as false a one as was ever pend or printed concerning such a matter since the Pope and his Priests perceiving their kingdom to decline by the breakings forth of truth from under their smothers began to be-lye its witnesses to this day I shall take notice of a few more of your figments and two or three passages in the Disputation which passed by the memories of you Accountants least by telling the whole truth you should shame the devil and your selves which may suffice to prove a disproportion between your Tattale and its Title of true Account and so leave it to the unprejudic'd auditors of our Discourse and impartiall per-users of our Relations Report First you assert page 3. and that point blank that I confessed that at three or four years old many began to be instructed in Principles of Religion and that at that age they might be baptized but afterwards that proof being offered that infants of a day old were as capable of baptism I would have recalled it Reply Sirs why hath Satan filled your hearts to ly thus against the truth and by filching out of the waie purposelie as may be supposed what was of most moment to the making out of my true meaning to wrest and represent my expressions and intentions in them as
of the unity of the Church are departed shall be the very same that you Protestant Clergy do make in your own defence when you are charged by your old father Caiphas and his Catholicks as Hereticks and Schismaticks in your rending from them and as infringers of the unity of their Church yea in the very words of Calvin to whom you my Ashford opponents are pleased to send us who saith thus of them as I do with him of you all Inst. l. 4. c. 2. S. 2 Magnifice quidem c. They do indeed gloriously set out their Church unto us that there should seem to be no other Church in the world and afterward as though the victory were gotten they decree that all be Schismaticks that dare withdraw themselves from the obedience of that Church that they paint out and that all be Hereticks that daâ—…e once mutter against the doctrine thereof But by what proofs do they confirm they have the true Church S. 1. If the true Church be the pillar and stay of the truth it is certain that there is no Church where lying and falshood have usurped the dominion S. 3. There is therefore no cause why they should any longer go forward to deceive by pretending a false colour under the name of the Church which we do reverently esteem as becommeth us but when they come to the definition of it not onely water as the common saying is cleaveth unto them but they stick fast in their own mire because they put a stinking harlot in place of the holy spouse of Christ that this putting in of a changling should not deceive us be side other admonitions let us remember this also of Augustine for speaking of the Church he saith it is it that is sometime darkned and covered with multitude of offences as with a cloud sometime in calmnesse of time appeareth quiet and free sometime is hidden and troubled with waves of tribulations and temptations He bringeth forth examples that oftentimes the strongest pillars either valiantly suffered banishment for the faith or were hidden in the whole world S. 4. In like manner the Romanists do vex us and make afraid the ignorant with the name of the Church whereas they be the deadly enemies of Christ. Therefore although they pretend the Temple the Priesthood and other such outward shews this vain glistering wherewith the eyes of the simple be dazled ought nothing to move us to grant that there is a Church where the Word of God doth not appear for this is the perpetual mark wherewith God hath marked them to he his He that is of the truth saith he heareth my voice Again I am the good shepheard and I know my sheep and am known of them my sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me And a little before he had said that the sheep follow their shepheard because they know his voice but they follow not a stranger but run away from him because they know not the voice of strangers Why are we therefore wilfully mad in judging the Church whereas Christ hath marked it with an undoubtful sign which wheresoever it is seen cannot deceive but that it certainly sheweth the Church to be there but where it is not there remaineth nothing that can give a true signifition of the Church for Paul rehearseth that the Church was builded not upon the judgements of men nor upon Priesthoods but upon the doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets but rather Jerusalem is to be severally known from Babilon and the Church of Christ from the conspiracy of Satan by that difference wherewith Christ hath made them different one from another He that is of God saith he heareth the words of God ye therefore hear not because ye are not of God In summe forasmuch as the Church is the kingdom of Christ and he reigneth not but by his word can it be now doubtful to any man but that those be the words of lying by which Christs kingdome is feigned to be without his scepter that is to say without his holy word 5 But now whereas they accuse us of Schism and Heresie because we both teach a contrary doctrine to them and obey not their lawes and have our assemblies to prayers to baptism to the ministration of the supper and other holy doings severally from them it is indeed a very sore accusation but such as needeth not a long or labor some defence they are called Hereticks and Schismaticks which making a division do break in sunder the communion of the Church And this communion is holden together with true bounds that is to say the agreement of true doctrine and brotherly charity whereupon Augustine putteth this difference betwixt Hereticks and Schismaticks that Hereticks indeed do with false doctrine corrupt the purenesse of faith but the Schismaticks sometime even where there is like faith do break the bond of fellowship But this is also to be noted that this conjoining of charity so hangeth upon the unity of Faith that faith ought to be the beginning thereof the end and finally the only rule Let us therefore remember that so oft as the unity of the Church is commended unto us this is required that while our minds agree in Christ our wills also may be joined together with mutual well willing in Christ Therefore Paul when he exhorteth us to that well willing taketh for his foundation that there is one God one Faith and one Baptism Yea wheresoever he teacheth us to be of one mind and of one will he by and by addeth in Christ or according to Christ meaning that it is a factions company of the wicked and not agreement of the faithful which is without the word of the Lord. S. 6. Cyprian also following Paul deriveth the whole fountain of the agreement of the Church from the onely Bishoprick of Christ he afterward addeth the Church is but one which spreadeth abroad more largely into a multitude with increase of fruitfulnesse like as there be many sun beams â—…ut one light and many branches of a tree but one body grounded upon a fast root and when many streams do flow from one fountain although the number seeâ—… to be scattered abroad by largeensse of overflowing plenty yet the unity abideth in the original take away a beam of the sunne from the body the unity suffers no division break a branch from the tree the broken branch cannot spring cut off the stream from the spring head being cut off it drieth up so also the Church being overspread with the light of the Lord is extended over the whole world yet there is but one light that is spread every where Nothing could be said more fitly to expresse that undividual knitting together which all the members of Christ have one with another we see how he continually calleth us back to the very head Whereupon he pronounceth that Heresies and Schismes do arise hereof that men do not return to the original of truth nor do seek that head
and his Angels did now prevail against him and his cruel Cutthroats so that place must be no more found for them in heaven i. e. the high places of power in the Empire and that he could execute his wrath now no longer by them against the saints as Christians a Christian being now come to the Crown he had no other remedy now then to play his cards about another way and turn Christian also himself that he might have the fairer advantage to crush the true Christians that kept the commands of God and the faith of Jesus under the new nicknames of Hereticks Schismaticks c. that would not obey the orders of the Church insomuch that who but the devill who so busie as he now to have Christian Bishops favoured cherished advanced honoured with all the honours that might be next to that of the very Crown Imperial it self who so earnest as he to have all the world brought about by all means possible and in all the hast to become Christians and to become one holy Catholick Christian Church and so within a while Deo permittente non approbante having set forth the beast or Roman Empire in another shape and christned it with the name of Christendome he scrambles up his Kingdome to himself again makes over his power seat and great authority to this beast thus transformed and this beast gives it all up to the Whore he sets him up a Vicar General and names him the Vicar of Christ the head of the Church Bishop of the Universal See and such like and by him and the Ministers of Christ that issued from him fills all the earth with abomination and reigns with as full force though not so open face but under a mask having all things in a kind of apish imitation of Christs kingdome to the suppressing of the truth as in former daies he had done and all this came to passe through this sin of self love in the Clergy which as it grew great so love to the truth grew smaller and smaller till it came to be totally extinguisht and the light of it wholly ecclipsed from the earth for when the good man Constantine in his zeal to the truth gave them great Revenues to which other princes added more still according to the voice that was then heard in the aire viz. 〈◊〉 veneâ—… insusum est ecclesiae so it sell out for the Cleâ—…y fell to make much of themselves and things of the earth to serve and seek their own interests fell to wrangling and jangling about Primacy Superiority who should be universall Bishop and such base unworthy abominable and self-pleasing practises so that the truth took no more place in their hearts from then ceforth for ever From thenceforth they began to grow in high esteem of themselves and not only to fancy but also to inveagle both Princes and people to fancy some perfection holinesse choicenesse spiritualnesse and purity in them more then in all other men and to distinguish themselves from the people by their garbs and titles of Holy men of God the Spiritualty the Clergy or Heritage of God the Tribe of Levi the lot of Gods own inheritance the Priesthood Ghostly fathers Divines shutting out the people from sharing with them in these terms of honour which belong onely to Gods people whom of all the rest in the mean time they villyfyed with the names of Hereticks as if God himself had no â—…egard almost to any but themselves and did behold all manner of men but these Ministers afar off calling other princes and lords for the Clergy men were become lords and princes too now i. e. spiritual ones Temporall Princes Lords Temporall Secular men and the people the Laity Mechanicks that must not meddle with the Scripture so much as tolook in it for so it was in old time not so much as to take upon them to be skilled in it much lesse to speak out of it or expound or understand any otherwise then as these Divines say is the meaning of it yea under the raign of these latter Lords the Protestant CClergy though they have it in such plain English before their eyes yet what a horrible thing was it but a few years behind fancied by Featley and still is well nigh universally by the CClergy here in England who appropriate all the wisdome about the Scripture to themselves what a horrible thing I say for the people to talk on or have more to do with Scripture then to take it as the Priesthood gives the sense of it The Shoomaker goes not beyond his last nor the Taylor beyond his measure quoth he only the trade and well might he so call it for by that craft they have their wealth as handicrafts men theirs by other crafts of expounding Scripture is a mystery which every Artizan arrogateth to himself the Physitian here will be prescribing receipts the Lawyer will be demurring upon Dubi a Evangelica and every handicrafts man will be handling the pure word of God with impure and unwashed hands this the pratling huswife this the old dotard this the wrangling Sophister in a word this men of all profession and men of no profession take upon them to have skill in sic ille quid ni quaeso O Sacerdos what was the Scripture given for thee only to look in or wast thou set to keep people out from it under lock and key or may the spirit blow no where but where thou listest must not all people search it or must they search and find no more truth in it then thou findest or must they not take it into their mouths lest they defile it as Bishop Wren thought who prohibited the people to talk on it at their tables for fear they should prophane it It should seem so by Dr. Featley who cryed down the people as Asses Apron Levites Russet Raâ—…bies the Clergy of Lâ—…cks c. wondering that their dores and posts and walls did not sweat upon which any note was fixed to give notice of the exercises of men of any manual imployment yea t is a thousand pitties quoth he that such owls and bats and night birdâ—… as if the Clergy onely were the children of the day and the people the children of the night and darknesse should flutter in our Churches and silâ—… upon our fonts Pulpits and Communion Tables This was the cause of that great Schism of Corah Dathan and Abiram Numb 16. all the congregation is holy But this is the cause of that schism of Pope Prelate and Presbyter from the primitive freedome that gifted Disciples whether offiâ—…ers or no had to speak to exhortation edification comfort and that the congregation then had to admonish her Ministers upon occasion Co. 4. 17. viz. all the congregation are prophane onely the Priesthood holy enough to draw neer within the rails and to preach to the people out of the Pulpit they are afraid I wot least the preaching of others there should sile and bewray it
unduely administred and so it is or rather Rantism instead of it not only at Rome but in England also whilst to Infants therefore as the Church of Rome is but a false Church so the Church of England is no true one I utterly do therefore yea and did then deny that Infant-Baptism is at all practised by the Church of God and yet O full of all fallacy as if your Respondent were agreed with you in 't that the true Church of God did baptize Infants how finely have you foisted in this Epithite to the baptism of little children viz. practised by the Church of God and that in this very Account you give of our agreement about the very form and terms of the question that was yet to be disputed between us Report Thirdly That the Arguments used in the disputation should be only express Scriptures or arguments of necessary consequence from them All Authorities of Fathers and Churches laid aside though the practise of the Church was pleaded for yet would not be yielded to Reply 1. I agree with you that the Arguments should indeed have been such only by agreement but that one of those you then used or any of these few material ones for the immateriall being of no account with your selves you Account not for which you here expose to be perused is grounded upon express Scripture or any good consequence therefrom I deny as will I hope be manifested in my ensuing Re-review of them and Review of your Review it self Secondly if by Fathers whose authority you hang so much on you mean those that were some hundreds of years after Christ and were canonized more lately for such as Father Origen Father Chrysostome Father Ierom Father Cyprian Father Austin and the other objects of the Clergies Dotage and if by Churches you mean those that were in the ages when and places where these Fathers lived or any other since the primitive times which were the purest it is but a follie to stand arguing from them whose words and waies are no more the rule of truth to us then ours are to be to them that succeed us for verily they might and did speak sometimes not according to the word and then they were as Heterodox as others and our selves are in as good possibilities as they to speak according to the word and then we are as Orthodox and Authentick to the full as themselves I did therefore utterly disown all authority of these Fathers and Churches for I knew none they had to be a Standard to after ages yet though I counterpleaded your Plea from their practise it was not least your cause should be advantaged thereby for even the Testimonie of those Fathers is against you but because as they were subjected to the word so were they as subject to error as our selves but if by Fathers you mean the Primitive Prophets and Apostles to whom all your Fore-fathers are but Children viz. Father Peter Father Paul Father Iames Father Iude Father Iohn whose Doctrine was the foundation to the Churches and by Churches those that were then built upon their doctrine as that of Ephesus Corinth Philippi Rome c. before the falling off from the truth the Authority of these Fathers and practise of these Churches is pleaded for as seriously by us as the other superstitiously by your selves Report Fourthly Here you tell us t was propounded That the form of the Disputation should be Syllogisticall which I after many reasons alledged by you the Ministers to inforce the same at last yielded to Reply A very fit phrase for it for 't was inforced by you indeed yet more by strength of resolution than reason that 't was yielded to by my self is as true yet I must profess it was because the Disposition of your wills did put me as as we say to Hobsons Choise for I saw you so desirous to draw your necks out of the coller and to make any thing in excuse to break off the Discourse that I must choose either that way or none and therefore rather than the work of that day should fall as it must have done altogether else for you to the total failing of the expectation and hindering the edification of the people I could not but give way to your desires Nevertheless your many reasons which were but two and those as reasonless too as if you had said nothing were counter-mand with as many more and those also of so much weight that because you began to feel them sit heavy upon your Scholastick skirts you would have obstructed my delivery of them to the people for what great matters did you alledge whereby at that time and place to prove the expediency of such a form First that 't was given out as my desire to them is it never may be again by them of our party that I was a Scholar and durst meet with Scholars in discourse and therefore seeing I now was before Scholars it was expected that I should dispute in the way that 's most usual among them Secondly That the way of Dispute by Syllogisms for which some of you had little need to dispute considering their illogicall and un-syllogisticall doings that day wherein they were all-to-be-puzzled in their matter by fumbling so much about that form was the clearest and most compendious to the proving of things and the preventing of extrravagancies and disorder much what in such a manner did you utter your selves in order to inforcing your Proposition to which the reply was to this purpose Namely First that though I had been in the University and a Graduate there yet I pretended to no great Scholarship yea that I was a Dunce and a fool which very terms and no other I repeated again in my Position and was contented to be counted for no other as to that kind of learning of much of which I was willingly forgetful that I might know more of Christ and the plainness of his Gospel Secondly that I came not thither to dispute nor did I the Lord is my witness in that formal way you stood upon but in plainness to give an account before all to as many as should ask it according to my ability and what liberty you should allot me thereunto which yet was well nigh none at all of the way you call Heresie after which I and many others did worship Thirdly that these Syllogisticall wayes of arguing and the foolish feigned forms of the Scribes and Disputers of this world which men might dispute in about the things of Nature and the world were utterly unsuitable to the seriousness of the things of Christ and the Gospel which were most effectually delievered for so Paul chose to hold them out in all plainness of speech and most commonly hid from people by the Logicall terms and Methods of mans invention and that the wise and prudent men after the flesh Doctors Schoolmen and Casuists had clouded the truth from the world for ages and generations together by these their
comparison of others Whereupon though Christ called the Canaanites by nature dogs in reference to the Iews and their seed the children while that birth-uncleanness or holinesse stood yet unabolished Mat. 15. 12. 26. after which example Mr. Blake takes such blind boldness to himself as to imagine the new born infants of believers and unbelievers may respectively be so denominated still yet he takes upon him much more then God ever gave Peter leave to do or any man else in those dayes of the Gospel if he now call any person by meer naturall birth more holy common or unclean then other T is not now fleshly birth nor circumcision nor uncircumcision in the flesh that discriminates men as Saints or sinners children or dogs holy or unclean in Covenant with God or out fit or unfit further then non-age unfits all alike for such a thing now to be of the visible Church which is not now nationall neither as heretofore it was for under the law this only made men communicable or incommunicable one with another this was the cause why those of the circumcision cayilled with Peter till he satisfied them to the contrary because he being a Iew by nature and circumcised in the flesh went in to men uncircumcised and did eat with them Act. 11. from eating with whom he dissemblingly withdrew himself at another time fearing them of the circumcision Gal. 2. which way of discrimination of persons each from other as holy and unclean fit or unfit for Church-communion each with other by meer fleshly birth and circumcision in the flesh was but a type the Antitype whereof is not this viz that believers fleshly seed are holy Saints Gods people Church-members by birth and contrariwise unbelievers fleshly seed by nature dogs swine sinners unclean in such sort as the seed of Iews and Gentiles were under the law but this rather and indeed viz. that believers themselves spiritually born by faith in Iesus Christ circumcised in heart doing Abrahams works are now the children of Abraham a peculiar people a holy nation neer and deer unto him that must dwell in his house and be fed and refresht with that bread of which there 's abundance and vnbelievers themselves unholy ones in heart and life never new born nor become children to God and Abraham by faith in Christ but remaining uncircumcised within under the unclean lusts of the flesh are those unclean ones and sinners with whom communion is not to be held by the other in Church bodies those dogs and swine to whom the childrens bread is not to be divided nor holy things given even the holy ordinances of the Gospel nor pearls cast i. e. the precious particularities of professed believers viz. baptism and the supper thrown away upon them Moreover as God shewed Peter by that vision Act. 10. that not any man now no not a Gentile by nature may be called common or unclean any more then one that is a Jew by nature so he shews him the same ore again in a round reproof by the mouth of Paul Gal. 2. 11. to 19. where t is recorded how shamefully he separated from eating with the Gentiles for fear of offending the Jews of whose cavils with him in this kind he had had some experience before Act. 11. as if he had been opinion'd still according to the law that such meats as were then unclean and such people as were then sinners by nature in reference to the then holy seed of the Iews had been no lesse then abomination still for him or any Iew by nature to eat of or eat with and likewise how roundly he was dealt with by Paul who minded him of that which he knew well enough but was too willingly ignorant of at this time viz. That these who were but a while since by nature holy were now no holier by nature then Gentiles that were then also called sinners of the Gentiles but that as to that old account of ceremoniall uncleanness and holinesse whereby they were distinguisht from the very womb before they were now all alike by nature viz. Iews no more holy then other men and other men even Gentiles no more sinners by birth then they all that partition wall of birth holinesse and uncleanness propinquity and alienation that did once difference some men from other ab incunabilis being broken down and themselves such as must look upon themselves as dead to that law whereby they stood the children of God and Saints and all other men sinners by fleshly birth and under another law now even that of the Gospel by which there is no other way of being holy and becoming so much as relatively onely much lesse really the children of God then that of faith in the Lord Iesus for the Iews themselves more then for any other and therefore in case they now go about to build again the things that they had destroied meaning that fleshly birth holinesse which they had before disownd they should make themselves transgâ—…essors in so doing this verily is the very sum sense and scope of that Scripture viz. to cry down all the old ceremonial distinctions of men by nature and Nation to beat down all that old birth priviledge and preheminence of one person however descended above another as to Gospel participation and communion out of which yet Mr. Blake blindly takes his text where upon to build again a certain birth holinesse in one mans fleshly seed above another the very thing that Paul there declares rather to be abolished most perversly propagating to the meer carnall seed of Christians that antient tipical and now ended holinesse of Iews by nature who though the seed of believing Abraham himself yet have none of it at all now themselves nor yet whilst they had it could be admitted by Iohn to baptism and gospel priviledges upon that onely account and yet if it still remain as the thing intitling to ordinances both must have it and a right also to baptism by it specially if Mr. Blakes own tenet be true that the ground of a childs admission to baptism is not the faith of his immediate parent onely as he saies it is not p. 24. of his birth priviledge but the promise made to believing Ancestors at a great distance for as he sâ—…th there that if Iosia have no right from his father Ammon yet he is not to bâ—… shut out having right from his father Abraham so say I Abraham being not onely the remote parent of Iosia but of all the Iews that are born at this day also if the Iews have no right now from their own immediate parents that in the primitive times or more lately believed not the Gospel yet may they have right if right at all be to be had to Gospel priviledges from the parents faith at a distance from their remote fathers Abraham Isaac and Iacob whose believing of the Gospel is as well worthy to intitle all their seed to this day to the Gospel promises as the
t is most certain that they had been not onely spectators of Iohns Baptism but dispensers of baptism themselves also long enough before this time to have been instructed in the true subject of it for the bringing of those infants was after Iohn was beheaded but Christ by his disciples had baptized in Iudea before Iohn was in prison and whilest Iohn was yet himself baptizing in Eâ—…on yea and had made and baptized more disciples than Iohn Besides the ground of their rebuke of those that came with little children was no doubt their care and loathness to have Christ too much prest in which case they sometimes rebuked others when they throngd upon him so fast for healing that they had no leasure so much as to eat bread Secondly that they came not now under Imposition of hands in that sense the Dr treats on is most evident First by the Dr own quotations of Mr Calvins and Mr Cottons readings concerning the practise of the first times for so far are they from clearing such a thing as he alledges them for that they clear the clean contrary the subjects of that imposition of hands they speak of being only professors of the faith and not infants yea how doth D Holmes belabor himself to prove it that those to whom the primitive Churches dispensed Imposition of hands were persons grown to years more then doth his cause good and more then any wise man puts him to by the denial of it but those that were brought to Christ for it here spoken of none other then very infants in their nonage Secondly in that this ordinance of laying on of hands was not likely yet in use and being in this prae-primitive-period wherein Christ laid his hands on these infants the ends in order whereunto it was enjoined and practised when it was being such as in this juncture not only infants but also the very disciples themselves were uncapable of viz. as the Doctors own quotations truly shew perfect and full fruition of confirmation in Church state Gospel Church liberties Church-fellowships in all Church ordinances viz. the Supper and suppications and also the receiving of the holy spirit none of all which were yet given to any in such wise as afterwards they were no not to the Disciples till either just before as the Supper or else after Christ was crucified for howbeit matter for the Gospel Church and fellowship was fitting preparing and gathering in by preaching and baptizing even from Iohn who began the Gospel two or three years before that and the Gospel Church was as it were in a certain Chaos or Congories of matter not yet digested into its perfect form somewhile before the Jews Church was ended in Christ death yet it came not to have its own formall constitution in point of visible order posture fellowship government officers discipline endowments with the spirit whereby they might be built up an habitation of God and ordinance of laying on of hands in prayer specially relating thereunto till after Christ crucified and ascended the holy spirit being not yet come because Jesus not yet glorified Thirdly they came not for this but for another kind of Imposition of hands which is otherwise called touching which who ever had from him were in case of diseases made whole They came surely for that laying on of hands which Dr Holmes himself speaks of p. 57. out of Hophman viz. a laying on in order to healing for which healing by a touch of him many men women and children came or else were brought to Christ while others that were well came to hear him Mark 5. 27. 28. 29. 30. Luke 6. 17. 18. 19. Mat. 14. 13. 14. 34. 35. 36. This Imposition of hands therefore that these infants had was not that which persons when past infancy only had in the Churches after and for Dr Holmes to say the Apostles and ancient Churches confirmed persons by prayer and laying on of hands when they were past infancy and not in it therefore surely Christ to the same intent and purpose laid hands on these in infancy is equally absurd as to argue thus viz. the Apostles and primitive times practised baptism to men and women onely confessing sin and professing faith therefore it is most fitting and likely now to be the will of Christ that persons should be sprinkled in their non-age so brittle are all the bottoms you yet build on but to proceed Disputation Know ye not that the spirit of God is in you except ye be reprobates and they dare not say that little children are all reprobates Also Review page 16. They are not Reprobates Therefore Christ is in them Disproof Nor do we say that little children are all reprobates nor durst you say that any of them are reprobates if meer blindness did not embolden you thereunto for the truth is consider them yet living in the capacity of infants and so though in foro Dei in esse intentionali conditionali i. e. with God who calleth things that yet are not as though they were and foresees both what they will do and what he accordingly will do with them hereafter they are already known to be either of one sort or the other yet in foro hominum and in esse actuali i. e. actually and in the sight of men they are finally neither reprobated nor elected till they finally receive Christ or reject him yea I wish you were all but as sure to be saved as it is sure that none are quoad nos rejected or devoted in the word which is the coppy of Gods decree to eternal damnation but upon account of their own actual transgression and as t is sure that none at all of them that dy in infancy and no more of those that live to years also are damned but such as finally put salvation away from them and so judge themselves most worthy of the other for though of Iacob and Esau they being yet unborn neither having done any good or evil it was foretold by God who foresaw what good and evil they would do in time and what he thereupon would do unto them that the Elder should serve the younger yet this was foretold of and fulfilled in their posterity and not their persons for though Edom served Israel yet Esau in person served not Iacob but Iacob rather bowed before him and as for that viz. Iacob have I loved Esau have I hated which you wot was spoken of them as from the womb you shall find if you look again that it was not spoken of their persons but their posterity nor yet secondly of those without respect to Edoms wickedness above the other much less thirdly before Iacob and Esau was born and had acted good or evil but so long after Iacob and Esau were born and had done good and evil that they were also ere that time when this was spoken Mal. 1. many years since dead and rotten but this would lead me into another controversie of as large extent and
if universality perpetuity or antiquity either I mean that post primitive Antiquity of the fourth or fifth Century may pass for president more current then the primitive the Pope and his priesthood may prove the protestant priesthood to be but upstart Novices to them by this way of arguing from the antient perpetual universal practise of their Church I write not this as taking the Papists part against the Protestants for so far am I from justifying the Iesuites that I rather fight with Dr. Featley and his friend against them in this case holding with them that no succession of true visible and rightly constituted Churches can be shewn of either your way or ours in all that time of popish unity and universallity but I do it to this end onely ut hosâ—…uo Iâ—…gulemus gladio as Dr. Featley saies of us p. 88. that I may fight against Featleys followers in the point of infants baptism with Featleys own Fauchin i. e. saâ—…isfie them concerning the narrownesse novelty and invisibility of our Church in times of popery when they say where was our Church before Nicholas Stock the very same way and no other then that wherin they excuse the non-appearance of their Protestanâ—…s Churches then to the Iesuits when vaunting in their own visible universallity they ask them where was your Church before Luther for verily if it must be taken from you by the Papists as evidence good enough that your Churches are the true Churches and lineally descended from Christ though none of them ever visibly appeared before Luther in all that time of the Popes Peterdome ore his fellows because your doctrine is truer then that of theirs and specially since several witnesses successively held it out against Romes contradictions then I hope it shall be taken from us by you Protestants as good evidence that our Churches are yet truer then yours and such as have been as much as yours have been in visible constitution from the time of the treading down till this modern resurrection because our doctrine and practise is that of the primitive and purest times specially since we can evince it as clearly that many witnessed the truth of it against infant-baptism in times of priestly tyranny as you can that any have witnessed yours at all For howbeit you say your infants baptism was not so much as questioned till of late if you had your wits so well about you as you should you could not but see that t was almost ever opposed for though it were never heard of in the first Century yet that it hath been ever withstood since it came up is most evident by the conflicts of corrupt times for it for what made such controversies among the fathers about it what mâ—…de Cyprian and his 66 Bishops conven'd in councel lay their heads together to find out such superstitious stuff as your selves are ashamed of wherewith to support it what made Bernard complain that t was laught at among other ridiculosities as praying to and for the dead what made Imperiall lawes and Synodical cannons enjoin it under such strict penalties what made Pope Innocent 3. who together with the 600 Bishops and all the rest of the Clergy which in the councel of Lateran determined Transubstantiation confession were called fooles and block-heads seducers of the people hereticks and blaspemers by Iohn Purvey one of Wickliffs followers p. 17 of Luth. praedec what I say made that Innocent among other things decree so strictly as he did that the baptism of believers infants should succeed circumcision if that tradition found no Traitors which sought the death out and if the risets up against it were hardly heard of before Luther Either then the verity of doctrine in Churches reformed from Romes downright dotage doth prove as Dr. Featley sayes well it doth a perpetual duration of it so that it must needs have professors in all ages or it proves it not if not then the main argument whereby Dr. Featley defends Protestanism to have been perpetually before Luther doth not vindicate you in your Religion from the name of Novellists any more then us and so the Pope by his plea for the verity of his Church from perpetuall visibility universality c. carries the cause clean from us all but if it doth then as we deny your infant-baptism to have been perpetuall because its false doctrine and our Church and way of baptism we hold in contradistinction to you being as consonant to the word and primitive pattern as the truest of those doctrines you hold in contradistinction to the Pope is vindicated by Featleys own argument to have been as perpetually before Luther as the purest piece of Protestanism and party of Protestants whatsoever Again an ennumeration of a successive number of particular persons barely professing the truth in the times of all Christendoms erring from it but not visibly constituted into any right Church form or order either doth prove Christ and his spirit to have been with his people alwayes and in all ages according to his promise and consequently his promise in that particular to be true notwithstanding the worlds so universal erring for a time or else it doth not prove it if such an ennumerarion of single professors successively witnessing to the truth against Romish error doth not clear Christs promise to be true then your selves are as justly charged by the Iesuites who use the same argument against you that you use against us to be guilty of that damnable blasphemy of denying Christs promise to be true as we are charged to be guilty of it by your selves for as much as all that you say towards the salving of Christs promise of his perpetual presence with your Church while he left Rome from fault of falshood is but an induction of certain persons that before Luther testified to your doctrine yea he that answers the Iesuites question sayes no more confessing that a succession of Protestant Churches cannot be shewed but if it doth prove Christ his promise to be true then I hope it serves to prove it in our case as well as yours or else it s a hard case indeed for as much as though a perpetual succession of such visible Churches as ours are is not to be shewed through all ages of the Clergies crushing down the truth yet we can give as full evidence of a sort of single Sâ—…ints that testified against infant-baptism even in those times as you can of such as testified against any other popish tradition whatsoever By this time you may see the fore-man in your for-lorn hope that is sent before as a subtil scout in a sophistical coat to entrap us is not onely discovered in his drift but divested also of his deceltful dresse disarmed and disabled from your service and laid a bleeding neverthelesse sith he opens his mouth and prates against us â—…ll with malicious words falsely chargâ—…ng us again and bespattering us what he can with his tongue because he sees he cannot hurt
men at years but infanâ—…s being uncapable to act faith and it being not required of them therfore they may be baptized without it which conclusion you make without book to for the word warrants you not to make it why may not we when you call so universally for faith to every ones salvation or else saying assuredly they are damned return the like viz true no salvation without faith of persons capable to act it and of whom it s required but infants being uncapable to act it and it being not required of them therefore they may be saved without it Babist This conclusion is spoken without book and as unwarrantable by the Scripture as you say ours is sith the Scripture speaks as much of salvation by faith as of baptism upon faith and as little of salvation without faith as it doth of baptism without it therefore still we have at least as good ground to say infants may be baptized without faith as you have to assert they may be saved without it Baptist. No I shall leave you behind here for sith the Scripure speaks of the impossibility of infants believing and yet with all of their saluation as your selves confesse in your own interpretation of that clause viz. of such is the kingdome of heaven but no where at all of their baptism it shews that they may be saved without believing but shews not that they may be baptized without it besides to hold any of them to be damned before they have by actual sin debard themselves of salvation is abominable cruelty and breach of Christian charity with you who yet confesse that all of them have not faith p. 19. but to hold they need not to be baptized cannot bear the like construction sith t is acknowledged by them that deny their bapâ—…ism and by them also who absurdly assert to the contradiction of themselves that the denyal of baptism to them denies all hope of their salvation that they may be saved nevertheless though they die unbaptized so that whether we who hold that to them all belongs the kingdome of heaven though they neither believe nor are baptized before they die or you that hold no salvation to them without faith and yet hold that all of them have not nay that very few of them for how few are believers infants to others have faith whether we or you I say do justly deserve the censure of damning all or at least innumerable infants dying contrary to that evident testimony of Scripture and sentence of our Saviour that to them belongeth the kingdome of heaven and contrary also to the rule of Christian charity set us by your selves which is to presume well of every infant that he is in a good estate till he appear to be in a bad and by actual sin to bar himself and deserve exemption from the general state of little children declared in Scripture which is this that they have right to the kingdome let the most simple but honest Reader judge between us As for the two texts you say are brought in proof of justification of infants without faith viz. Rom. 5. 18. Rom. 11. 7. who urges the last of them I know not for my part I take it to be of no tendency at all either to your purpose or ours therefore I shall not trouble my self with it but the first of them which you say is so directly against us t is because you are blind if you do not perceive it to be an express downright declaration of a general justification of all from Adams sin as to life i. e. a resurrection from that bodily death which that sin brought upon all mankind and from which as there is now a universal return of every individual by Christ so there had never bin any returning for any one man in the world but by Christ to all eternity world without end 1 Cor. 15. 21. 22. Yea as universally as that judgement or condemnation to that first death came by Adam upon all men so that it spreads its black wings upon them all and brings them all down to the dust from whence they came so universally is justification unto life i. e the benefit and resurrection from that death from which else no one man should ever have risen come by Christ upon all men really and truly and not onely so but a capacity also and possibility of eternal happinesse and well being after that resurrection and all this whether persons believe it yea or no yea and a promise and certainty of it in case of belief in this Christ otherwise indeed a losse of the Resurrections becoming a mercy and benefit to them and a lyablenesse even after that escape of the first death that came by the first Adam to a sorer even that second death that lake of fire which by the second Adam by whom comes eternal blessednesse on believers comes upon all unbelievers and that for ever So that if there be no salvation to infants without justification yet ther 's justification of infants without faith or baptism either And whereas you argue from the cart to the horse from the justification and salvation of infants to their faith I argue from their non capacity to believe to their justification and salvation without it no salvation or justification without faith say you but infants are justified and saved therefore they believe if no justification and salvation without faith say I infants who cannot believe can neither be justified nor saved but infants so farre as they need justification for they have no sins of their own are justified and saved also for the kingdome of heaven belongs to them therefore there is justification and salvation for infants without faith To conclude therefore this opinion of you adversaries to the truth which allows no salvation to infants without faith puts you miserably to your shifts viz. either to find out a new way of coming by faith which Paul saies comes onely by nearing or else to damn innumerable dying infants who whilest they lived were uncapable to hear the word preached and so to believe or else as you do p. 18. to dream out a new kind of hearing whereby infants come by their faith viz. an inward wonderful miraculous hearing of some voice of the spirit within such a sigment of your own brains as the Scripture is wholly silent in and no true Church of God nor rational man but your selves who dream dreams and divine false divinations and things of nought deceits of your own heart and tell them to the deceiving of others did ever dream of and whosoever shall consider the impertinencies of your proofs in a cause of so great consequence shall have just cause to suspect all your other doctrines and to take heed how they take any thing any more upon trust as the whole world hath done now of old from these new masters the Clergy who instead of being ministers in truth or servi servorum dei have bin domini dominorum Lords
nor keep the doctrine of the heavenly master Now let them go and cry that we be Hereticks that have departed from their Church sith there hath been no cause of our estranging from them but this one that they can in no wise abide the pure professing of the truth but I tell not how they have driven us out with cursings and cruel execrations Which very self-doing doth abundantly enough acquit us unlesse they will also condemn the Apostles for Schismaticks with whom we have all one cause Christ I say did foresay to his Apostles that the time should come when they should be cast out of the synagogues for his name sake And those Synagogues of which he speaketh were then accounted lawful Churches Sith therefore it is evident that we be cast out and we be ready to shew that the same is done for the names sake of Christ truly the cause ought first to be inquired of before that any thing be determined upon us either one way or other Howbeit if they will I am content to discharge them of this point For it is enough for me that it behoved that we should depart from them that we might come to Christ. S. 10. But we see hâ—…w each where they cry out that their assemblies are unholy to which it is no more lawful to consent then it is to deny God Therefore it is needful to depart from the consent of those assemblies which were nothing else but a wicked conspiracy against God In like manner if any man acknowledge the assemblies at these daies being defiled with idolatry superstition and wicked doctrine to be such in whose full communion a Christian man ought to continue even to the consent of doctrine he shall greatly erre S. 12. Whereas therefore we will not simply grant to the Papists the title of the Church we do not therefore deny that there be Churches among them but onely we contend for the true and lawful ordering of the Church which is required in the communion both of the Sacraments which are the signes of profession and also specially of doctrine Hereby therefore appeareth that we do not deny but that even under his tyranny remain Churches but such as he hath profaned with ungodlinesse full of sacriledge such as he hath afflicted with outragious dominations such as he hath corrupted and in a manner killed with evil and damnable doctrines as with poisoned drinks such wherein Christ lieth half buried the Gospel overwhelmed godlinesse banished the worshiping of God in a manner abolished such finally wherein all things are so troubled that therein rather appeareth the face of Babilon then of the holy City of God Therefore because these marks are blotted out which in this discourse we ought principally to have respect unto I say that every one of their assemblies and the whole body wanteth the lawful form of a Church These very words of Calvin which are your defence and mine too against the Pope O ye Protestant Priesthood are mine also against you when you clamour against us as Schismaticks for separating from your Nationall Churches and calling as many out with us as we can viz. because you two P P as well as the Popish Priesthood are not Syon as you suppose but two of those three parts of that great City Mystery Babylon the great the Mother of Harlotry and Heresie that hath reigned over Kings and Kingdomes of the Earth You hold not unity with the head you return not to the fountain of the truth reform not by the Primitive standard but start aside like a broken bow you hear not the voice of our Prophet in all things he saies but make void his lawes you walk not in those scorned mean base waies which he hath chosen but are they rather that count them base and so we can no more ioin with you then deny Christ so far are we from being Hereticks and Schismaticks thereupon that we rather truly declare you such as stand divided from the Root the Sun the Fountain as well as all three one from another yea what need we any further witness that you three Hierarchies are all Hereticks and Schismaticks since the whole World hears it aloud out of your own mouthes the Bishop saith the Presbyter as to his Government is a Schismaticall Heretick the Presbyter saith the Bishop is so the Pope saies they are both so and they both say he is so and therefore I say they are all three so if we may credit what they say among themselves you stand all divided from Christ and the Apostles and now God hath justly divided you into three parts and divided you three miserably each against other among your selves yea and sub-divided you i. e. divided his people and well nigh all other people from you so that though you labour in the fire of wrath and rage to bring them back to unity with you and their old blind conformity to your waies yet you weary your selves for very vanitie for the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the Sea even so O Lord divide their â—…or gues more and more and let great BBBabel come down daily by the division of Languages that the whole Earth which was once of one Language and one speech even that of Babylon may at lâ—…st after all and by all this divâ—…sity learn all that one pure Language of the Land of Canaan yea come my beloved hast'n this blessed work and be like a swift Roe or young Hart upon these Mountains of Bether So having discovered what Heresie and Schism and who the Hereticks and Schismaâ—…cks are I come now to discourse o're again in a little plainer way your ow discourse concerning them and the means of opposing them which as I said above is a parcell of pretty right matter if spoken of the Popâ—… and his P P Priesthood to whom of right and most properly it appertains yea quid rides O S S Sacerdos mutato nomine de â—…e fabula narraâ—…r Thy own tale is a fiâ—…rod for thy own taile thou hast sharpen'd thine Arrows and bert thy Bow to shoot at a Pigeon and kild a Crow for verily thou art the man to whom all those properties of the Heretick and Schismatick propounded by thy self do much more aptly and exactly agree then to him thou talkest of a little translating a little trimming a little turning of it towards the true subject will make every tittle of that tattle of thine to be the truth which is but a peice of fained falshood as thou tellest it of the Baptists what thou hast reported lacks but to be retorted O Priesthood with a little amplification and a right application of it to thy self and then omne tulit punctum it hiâ—…s the nail on the head and tels 〈◊〉 but the truth indeed Thus then distinguishing your Patheticall piece O ye Ashford Opponents which I mean shall be my Text all along by a different carracter from my own
O Presbyters against Prelates Deans and Chapters c. without regard to the several disturbances that were like to be consecutive thereto yea the true subject and manner of administration of baptism which when it serves your turn so to do you call a circumstantial matter a ceremony for which if you should erre therein none but weak querulous consciences will complain and separate an indifferent thing for which why should we make so much ado a gâ—…at not to be streind at and such like is so necessary a matter one of the most necessary points of Religion which those that erre in do most fearfully erre and are totally deserted by the spirit of God these are your own words Thirdly you talk much and t is the language of the Pope to your selves since you reat from his Church of the Church and our holy mother the Church and Ghostly fathers of the Church and good and true tempered sons of the Church and the peace of the Church and Schismaticks in the Church c. wherewith you astonish the vulgar but I protest this day before God and men not onely against him against whom you are Protestants also but against your selves also his Schismatical sons who own his ordinations and still walk in some of his ordinances viz. Rantism Parochial posture c. as those that are little lesse ignorant then he and his good sons of both the true Church and true peace thereof whilst the truth to which she should submit is not regarded by you and the very things that make a true visible Church and are de esse and constitutive of it so that abstract them and you null it viz. true matter i. e. believers baptized and true form i. e. free and not forced fellowship both which are so in the Churches of England Scotland Italy France and Spain are not onely wanting but also trodden under your feet Fourthly the peaceable way wherein we propagate these opinions were you as sure they are erroneous as I am tha tyou'l once find them to be truth will yetexcuse and acquit us from all guilt of disturbing the peace of either the world or your Church which is the world in reference to the true one and unlesse you can say the Gospel of peace which where ere it comes occasions dissentions is the cause of them as in no wise it is but mens lusts rather that rage and take on against it you cannot say our Gospel is for it propounds them to the world in no other way then that and that way was no other then bare propounding them and as Christ and his disciples did not judge them here though they will judge them most severely hereafter who reject their words by the power of the Magistrate by the civil sword by nailing to pillories cutting off ears slitting noses whippings fines confiscations prisons bonds banishments fightings fire and fagot the bloody wayes whereby BBBabilon hath edified it self to that height of abomination the Arguments whereby the CCClergy were wont to convert Hereticks quickly from all error to dust and ashes so if any man hear our words and reject them well may we rebuke him sharply as they also did but we judge him not in that way whereby the Tribe of Levi that hath levied war for his lusts sake against the whole earth hath bereft all men of peace neverthelesse the words that we speak to him being those that Christ and his disciples have spoken in the world the same will judge him at the last day Secondly why sith it must needs be supposed there be many Godly men among the Ministers of the Nations though the most of them be wicked yet I do not except and exempt them when I inveigh so heavily against the CCClergy or why I do not rather forbear and spare to speak so broad at all and so generally as I do against that generation as an evill one for the sake of those good ones that are among them To which I say First that 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 godly men properly are those onely that worship God aright i. e. according to his own will and institution 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which well weighed might possibly put the best men among you to your trumps to make good your title to that title and denomination of godly by Scripture record sith while you stand among the rest even you as well as the worst do preach and practise for doctrines of Christ some traditions of man if you had no more enjoined you by them on whom you wait for your instructions then barely the sprinkling of infants by which you make void what in you is the true baptism of Christ. Yet not denying but that there is a sprinkling of honest hearts quorum meliori luto sinxit praecordia Titan whom the sun of righteousnesse as he lightens every man that cometh into the world hath hatcht up into a higher predicament of Godlinesse then their fellowees who are drawn up into some higher streins of devotion then the rest I adde further Secondly what are these littles to the lump what is the gleaning to the vintage here and there one good man to the whole corrupt crue of them that like Locusts and Caterpillars have spread themselves together with the smoak of errors over the earth in three several swarms or armies can some scores of well meaning Priests give the denomination of an holy PPriesthood godly Ministry to those legions of them that lie in wickednesse you may as well say there 's a million of Saints among the men of the world therefore reprove not the world for their sakes such as these who out of meer simple honesty rather then sinful sophistry and mystical iniquity do stand and act and argue against the true way as they do are Rarae aves very few to the multitude of humanists and sensual ones and subtle subverters of the Gospel which yet they would seem to be Ministers of for their own ends by whom they are commonly so hated too so far as they have any more strictnesse and sincerity then ordinary that they are among the other of their brethren as I was for querying after truth while I stood among them as owles and bats baired by other birds which few good grapes were they better then they are cannot denominate the whole vintage as una â—…irundo non facit ver BBBabilon is BBBabilon still and SSSodom is SSSodom and must be called so though Lot live in it and he called out of it too unlesse he mean mean to perish with it Thirdly those good men that are there the mores the pitty that they are so ought not to be suffered nor spared but spoke to the rather themselves and that very roundly too for being and abiding in a bad way and not the way it self and those many bad men that are in it scape declaring against as bad because of them there must be down-right dealing with upright men when they are in a wrong way