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A52048 The power of the civil magistrate in matters of religion vindicated the extent of his power determined in a sermon preached before the first Parliament on a monthly fast day / by ... Mr. Stephen Marshall ... / published by G. Firmin ... with notes upon the sermon. Marshall, Stephen, 1594?-1655.; Firmin, Giles, 1614-1697. 1657 (1657) Wing M769; ESTC R31209 38,128 52

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can but when there is an Act of Toleration for them who takes care to heale them Secondly When States will make Acts for Toleration in matters of Religion they had need have another Act go first i. e. to declare what they will NOT Tolerate they had need make good fences about the Vitals of Religion or else we shall have errors arise that will threaten them also have we not experince of it now Thirdly Rules for Toleration must not be taken from Persons that appear to be godly that is because such persons are looked upon as godly therefore what Opinions they hold shall be tolerated Because David a godly man falls into adultery therefore tolerate that sin May not a man that is godly at least seems to be so fall into such an errour of judgement as neither Church nor State must tolerate I know no such warrant to secure us but when professors grow wanton God may leave them to such errors in judgement as he hath left to errors in practise Also may not godly men be true and blamable causes of great Schisme but yet because godly they must not be indulged Fourthly If because Arguments can be brought to prove an Opinion therefore such an Opinion must be tolerated then what Heresie must not be tolerated If a man will listen to his own Atheistical heart and carnal reason there are those who could bring arguments very strong against the Scriptures Christs Divinity his satisfaction such things as we call Fundamentals if there be any I doubt not but there may be stronger arguments brought against these then there are for some things wherein men cry for Indulgence though they break the peace of the Churches and have brought us into this Confusion But if therefore those Heresies should be tolerated then let Churches and Religion go whither they will Fifthly Such Doctrines and practises as the Churches of Christ since the Apostles daies have constantly condemned Churches where soundness of doctrine and holinesse in conversation have met together having also libertie to search the mind of God and to reform what these have constantly condemned I humbly conceive that a State had need be cautious in making Acts to Tolerate such doctrines and practises and I am sure there are too many such now Tolerated Sixthly It had been much better for the Churches to have yielded each to other so far as they might and studied an Accommodation rather then put the Civil power to make an Act for Toleration which wanton spirits look at but as an Invitation to vent their own frothy and erroneous conceptions being they have a law to back them I am not to this day satisfied what sufficient reasons can be given why the Congregational and Classical brethren might not have joyned together and strengthned each other but that through their division the Nation should be as it is at this day If the letting of a godly Minister enjoy his own people without taking them from him would have healed the breach what an easie Medicine had this been for so great a wound The text which our Author hath pitched upon saith in All Godliness A good Magistrate will look that this people may live in All Honesty One part wil not serve the turn and if he could cause them to live in All godlinesse also it would be well for that people Seventhly To displease Thousands of godly and sound Christians for the sake of pleasing a few Christians in doctrines and practises corrupt I conceive is no safe policie whose spirits have shown themselves more Turbulent then those for whom Toleration hath been pleaded We have now had experience what it is to live under Episcopal Persecutions and an Armies Toleration which of these two have proved the most destructive to the power of godlinesse I need not say This onely I would say and that not without some sense of grief on my spirit it is sad that those who lay claim to New-England principles should so Act their part that men should not say and our posterity hereafter believe it That Independency ruined the Church of England Then our Author comes to his Positive rules and his second general rule is that the Magistrate takes care that all the Lords Institutions be observed The word in the Original which we translate godliness signifieth firstly the worship of God A godly man {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} {non-Roman} a good worshipper qui probè c●lit veneratur Deum Godly Kings did show their godlinesse in this point very much putting down false worship and setting up the true worship of God while the Ordinances of God are maintained as they ought to be God is known in the world and much godliness is shown in a due worshipping of God If we look back to the beginnings of our troubles and recall what it was the Professors of England would have had let them speak when you were fain to get into houses privately to keep Fasts together afraid that any should see you lest the Bishops should know it why did you Fast why did you utter such sad Complaints to God why did your tears drop so what was your burden Oh this Hierarchy did so Tyrannize over Gods faithful Ministers suspending imprisoning c. they did so mix their humane Inventions with Gods Institutions that we could not have the worship of God according to the pattern but must wound our consciences if pertake of the Ordinances what do you desire of God why that he would root up these persecuting Bishops and all the rabble that belongs to them that we may have none but Christs own Officers Ordinances pure without this mixture no Railes Surplice Crosse c. this was the businesse why men thus prayed and fasted and for these things the old solid Puritan prayed many yeers since though died before these times well what those deceased Christians prayed for and these living God hath given this generation Surely now those Ordinances and Officers shall be highly prized c. But what are more despised the Officers are but Anti-christian Blackcoats any gifted brother is as good as these Priests and for the Ordinances Church-Discipline singing of Psalms Infant-Baptisme these are none of Christs Institutions and for elder persons water-baptisme is a needless thing if have the inward so the Supper if have the thing signified c. that thus all are thrown off would any man have believed such horrid Apostasie should ever have been heard of principally from those things where their Prayers Fasts and tears together with the old Christians went so strongly What in these points Apostatize what do these things presage All Christs Institutions saith our Author the Magistrate must take care for So indeed said the Persian Emperour Ezra 7.23 whatsoever is Commanded by the God of Heaven let it be diligently done c. But it seems the Lord hath No Institutions now they are all disputed out Church-Discipline hath gone unquestionably for an Institution of Christ grounded
good preaching forty yeers and yet for want of Catechizing be more ignorant then many children are The Churches of England cry aloud to the Magistrate that if he will doe any thing for them then strengthen the hands of the Ministers who would set up Catechizing and Discipline 4 If the Magistrate may engage the people by Oaths and Covenants as saith our Author to whom also Gerhard inclines Then there would arise a question whither the Magistrate have not more power over these in case they Apostatize from what they have Covenanted then over others who have not so Covenanted I shall desire to add but two things more to what our Author hath set down which I conceive also the Magistrate is concerned in First The calling of Synods In the primitive times they used to have Synods twice in a yeer * That the Christian Magistrate did use to call them also when the Church came to have such Magistrates is well known the story of Constantinus surnamed Pogonatus * when the Monothelytes troubled the Church is worth the reading the Centurists in their preface to the seventh Century have set it down how he called the Synod and carried himself in the Synod a pattern indeed for all Christian Magistrates The reading of the story put me in mind of our Magistrates in N. England when the first Synod there was Called who carried themselves according to that Prince 1. Synods are a solemn Ordinance of Christ for the helping the Church against errors schisms scandals saith Mr. Burroughs Iren. p. 43.44 Mr. Cotton * hath spoken sufficiently for them The Synod of N. E. an. 1649. call Synods assembled and proceeding according to the pattern Act. 15. an Ordinance of Christ And in the third section of the same chap. say the Magistrate hath power to call a Synod the Classical Divines be sure differ not now if it be an Ordinance so much concerning the well-being of the Church then the Magistrate must look to such an Ordinance 2. Synods are necessary in regard of the Magistrate himself for as our Author saith the Magistrates Conscience is not the rule but he must looke to have his Conscience rightly informed from the word then what more likely way for the Magistrate to have his conscience informed in things concerning the Church which he must look to then to have a company of holy learned men gathered together in the name of Christ debating of matters which concern the Church the Magistrate being present as to keep civil order so also to propound what may trouble him that so he may be informed Q. But what shall the Magistrate do give himself up to the Synod our Author saith he must not give himself up to the Dictates of men Answ. First No more he doth for while he heareth the debates the reasons given on both sides propounds his own scruples he doth not give himself up to the dictates of men Secondly Mr. Cotton saith and that truly that the Synod binds not onely materially but also formally from the Authority of the Synod which being an Ordinance of Christ bindeth the more for the Synods sake If there be no respect due to Synods to what purpose are they called If a Synod may pronounce a Church to be Heretical renounce Communion with a Church and declare such a Church ought not to have Communion with any Church which is in effect excommunication as our Congregational men say then certainly Synods have Authority from Christ and a Magistrate that is godly will not lightly esteem their Determinations 2ly The Second thing which I conceive the Magistrate is to look to is to prevent Schisme what may be and to heal it where it is Schisme never riseth but from bad causes and the effect as bad Were it but in respect to civil Policie the Magistrate had need take care of this for where Schisme is there Unitie is broken and that people will not live peaceably which our Authors text mentions Rents in the Church will cause rents in the State if opportunity be given experience hath proved it But if we look to the Church there the Magistrate if he takes himself to be a Minister for the good of it shall find cause enough why he should step in here Our Author in his Sermon about Vnitie c. tending to heal our rents saith truly that the sin of schisme according to the sense of the Scripture is a most hainous sin though many make no account of it whether they be charged justly or unjustly with it He opens the evill of it both in the nature and effects of it Now however our Author doth show he hath larger principles then many other men have yet let the professors of England be tryed by his rules and then see who be the Schismaticks I never yet heard that any godly classical Divine hath so much as debarred an Anabaptist who was otherwise godly and desired forbearance from any Communion in the Lords Supper or other Ordinances but to be sure the Anabaptists the Separatists c. have denied Communion with them and cast them off with highest scorn where errors are not in the fundamentals and persons be otherwise unblameable there we ought to hold Communion Be it so let us yield it for the present is Ordination by Bishops an errour in the foundation is the owning of Abrahams seed as members of the Church and baptizing them being yet Infants an errour in the foundation so I may number more Let all the Separatists and Anabaptists with other Sectaries whatever in England charge the Classical Churches with an error in the foundation If they cannot why do they cast off Communion with them It is commonly said to us though we differ in judgement let us not differ in affection Well be it so but this generation differ not onely in judgement but affection which they manifest openly in throwing off Communion with all but their own sect and yet they call to us we must not differ in affection though they doe for Schisme is properly against Christian love but to be sure they are the Schismaticks by our Authors rules The meaning is this though we differ in judgement from you and break our Vnion with you manifesting it openly by casting off Communion with you yet you must be united to us Though we call you Priests Black-coats Antichristians and so your Churches yet you must not differ in affection Though Churches can tolerate some errors in persons when they carry themselves otherwise humbly and conscienciously and not divulge them nor labour to draw away others yet this schismatical spirit in such a high way also is intolerable As for that question What way simple error or heresie should be punished This our Author and that truly calls a hard question yet the difficulty lieth not so much in this whether the Magistrate may inflict any punishment but capital punishment As for the Papists we need not ask their judgements their
on good Scripture till Erastus had a mind to quarrel with it but it seems God did befool the man that whilst he falls out with the Ordinance his pen must write down seven sorts of persons which ought not to be esteemed as members of the Church and if there be any such they ought to be cast out And Mr. Prynne after his great stir yet acknowledgeth that 1 Cor. 5. ult. proveth Excommunication * yea and more texts besides that That which was once a Church-ordinance remained ever so unless God himself removed it but where men will prove the Translation of this Ordinance from the Church to the Civil Bench in case the Magistrate prove Christian I cannot tell One of our Magistrates did attempt to prove such a thing once to me by way of argument because there is no thing which falls under the Churches Cognizance as being an object for Church-Discipline but falls under the Magistrates also But I thought Christian Magistrates would first have brought a word of Scripture from Christs mouth to have proved the removing of an Institution but I heard none Then surely there is no great fear of the loss of the Ordinance if it must be lost by Scripture 2. To the argument I answer by denying the consequence that though the same things do fall under the Magistrates cognizance that do under the Churches yet it doth not prove that Church-discipline is removed c. 1. I doubt not but in the Primitive Churches there might fall out such sins that the Heathens Courts might take hold of for there was government then among the Heathen in matters of Honesty wherein yet some Church-members might be tardy but that did not take off the Churches discipline 2ly But the end is very different The Church in her discipline makes Repentance her end if the Delinquent be brought to that the Church desires no more nor can require no more But doth the Magistrate require no more is Repentance his end he directly and firstly aymes at I think not but he aimeth at the satisfaction of a Law made against such offenders to be a terror to others 3ly If persons come not to Repentance the Church doth not proceed by Mul●●s Death Prisons Bridewels c. which the Magistrate doth yea though the person repents If Repentance would save from death abundance should not dye by the Magistrate The Church labours to bring to repentance which the Magistrate quâ sic doth not as not being his businesse and if not proceeds to Excommunication the person cast out of the visible Kingdome of Christ and now reckoned in Satans Kingdome This the Magistrate doth not nor can doe Obstinacy in a sin and offence is that the Church looks at as much and most what more then the sin it selfe but so doth not the Magistrate for it is the act the Law broken not obstinacy which is but an Adjunct to the Act which the Law punisheth 4ly The Magistrate deals not with the offender by applying the Law of God to him immediately but such a Law made in such or such a Kings time or such an Act of Parliament c. but the Church meddles with no such things but applyes the word and law of God only to the offender 5ly The Church have a rule to proceed by degrees if offences be private to take one or two goe and deale c. if can attain the end Repentance go not to the Church But this doth not belong to Magistrates Courts 6ly The Church upon repentance receives a man into fellowship 2 Cor. 2. the members confirm their love c. Doth the Magistrate thus 3. Again I answer by denying the Antecedent namely that nothing falls under the Churches Cognizance but comes under the Magistrates also There is nothing comes under the Magistrates Cognizance but that the State hath made a law against but I have not known of any laws made against lying filthy speeches Totall neglect of religious worship in families wicked carriages of children to parents with many more which might be mentioned as Covetousness when evident notes of that sin reigning have appeared which because Mr. Prynne scoffs at the Churches for I could name to him a person that was cast out of a Church and that was one of the chief causes his covetousness as the members told me Now the Magistrate meddles not with these but I think no Church that is as it ought to be but will call persons guilty of these to account and proceed upon obstinacy This Ordinance then stands as an Institution of Christ and surely the Magistrate is to look tha● this be observed and if a christian Magistrate would doe service to Christ his Church at such a time as this is next to the bridling of the rage o● furious irrational erroneous blasphemous men this would be a worthy work to stablish this Ordinance and that great Ordinance of Cathechizing for want of which we see the wofull Condition our Churches are fallen into Obj. The Magistrate gives you leave to doe these why do not the Churches do them what need of him The Churches have done these when the Magistrate was a Heathen Answ. In those times when Christian Jew and Heathen divided the whole world then the Churches could do more then now we can the Churches then would admit none to baptism if adult but first they were well Catechized we have such as set by the name Christian are as ignorant as Heathens and take themselves to be Church members but scorn to be Catechized 2. There is difference to be put between times when the Ordinances and Worship of Christ were had in high esteem and feared according to their worth and these times when wanton corrupt men and Apostates have learned to despise the Ordinances of Christ and grown fearless our Apostates will jeer at that which then the Churches feared Cast them out of a Church they can fin a knot of corrupt Sectaries to receive them and hold Communion with them and what care they for Excommunication we see they can despise all ordinances But it was not thus in the Primitive Churches 3. Surely a bare permission is not sufficient to discharge the Magistrate that he suffers the Ordinances to be set up our Author saith he must take care c. which is more then a permission The Persian Emperour did more then permit Fourthly It is true the Churches did observe these Ordinances when the Magistrate was a Heathen but then he did not his duty shall the Church and Ordinances have no advantage by a Magistrate being Christian Obj. But what shall the Magistrate doe when there are such disputes about Church-Government one saith it is Episcopal another Presbyterial another Congregational and the Magistrate cannot be satisfied himself which it is how then shall he take care that this or that be set up Answ. Is the Magistrate indeed unsatisfied that he knows not which it is I doubt it For the Episcopal government I suppose there needs
no words about that the Magistracy hath sufficiently declared against that The Bishops before allowed the Ministers power to suspend from the Lords Supper which is Excommunicatio minor in the esteem of many That the Bishop would Monopolize the power of Excommunication as if Presbyters might not doe such an Act is more then any Bishop dare undertake to prove Hierom could tell us in his time when Corruptions had overgrown the Church Excepting Ordination what doth a Bishop that a Presbyter doth not It seems then Presbyters did excommunicate I thought to have added something more but reading of Anselm the Archbishop of Canterbury upon the first Chap. of Titus he giveth such strong grounds to convince me that such Bishops were never of Divine Institution that I trouble my selfe no further For the other two if any suppose the Congregationall Government not to be Presbyterial they mistake It should be so I am sure or else there must be no government at all to find government where there are not Governors and governed will be very hard but who are governed if the people be Governors Let learned Mr. Norton one of the strongest Congregational Divines be heard he speaks to the purpose I appeal to any competently judicious and sober-minded man if the denial of Rule in the Presbytery of a decisive voice in the Synod and of the power of the Magistrate in matters of Religion doth not in this point translate the Papal power unto the Brotherhood of every Congregation thou that abhorrest Episcopacy dost thou commit Popery Alas alas is there no medium between Boniface and Morellius between Papacy and Anarchy if there be a mystery of iniquity in the one is there not an university of iniquity in the other The Historians indignation that the East was overcome by a drunken Commander with a drunken Army is now become a matter of astonishment when so drunken a Tenet in an Age of such learning piety action suffering and successe should threaten the hopes of so glorious a reformation come unto the very birth By this you may see the judgement of this solid Divine and his fears and what sober man doth not fear the like The businesse then is not whether the government be Presbyterial we all agree in that but whether Classical c. That which troubleth us here is that the Churches mentioned in the Scripture were in Cities and populous places where there were many Elders and so there is no question about them but how they carried on their government in small Villages we read not of any in such places to my remembrance such as ours are we have no example Yet let us see how much we differ as now we stand the Congregational Divines though they deny a Pastour to have Authoritative power over any Church but his own yet in matters of weight and so in Excommunication they judge that a Council of Elders ought to be called which they look upon as an Ordinance of God thus in N. E. one Church going about to excommunicate a person a neighbour-Minister sent word he conceived the Church ought not to doe it some of the Church came to him to know his reasons he bad them call a Council and in the Council he would give his reasons but not else the Church would not hearken to him but cast the person out This bred division Thus most of the miscarriages have come from this when people have been head-strong and would not call Councils But now there the most learned wise and solid Divines doe call for Councils in all weighty acts I see here amongst us our Congregational Brethren doe the like The case is judged and determined by the Council but it is executed by the Officer of the Congregation Let us keep close to this and many miscarriages will be prevented Come to the Classical government though these Divines suppose they have Authoritative power over other Churches yet this I suppose look where the fact is committed there the case is to be heard This was the old practice when the Classis have determined what ought to be done as suppose a person is to be excommunicated yet if the Classis allow that the officer or officers of the Church where the fact is committed shall execute the sentence with the consent of the Church then though there be difference in our judgements yet none appears in our practices If we ask further concerning the power of Synods what they may doe to Heretical Congregations The Congregational men say A Synod is a solemn Ordinance of Christ that the Synod doth admonish men or Churches in the name of Christ authoritatively as there shall be cause the Synod declares men or Churches to be subverters of the faith or otherwise according to the nature of the offence to shame them before all the Churches in the name of Christ refuse communion with them also declare in the name of Christ that these erring people or Churches are not to be received into fellowship with any the Churches of Christ nor to have communion one with another in the Ordinances of Christ And thus they practice keeping such from Communion what is this but excommunication in effect The Classical adde one step more a formal and juridical delivering such to Satan but that produceth no more effects Look into the Congregational Churches you see the same and as many effects as in the Classical upon their formal delivering c. Here is but a poor difference no man can see any difference whence I wonder that there is such complaints against the Ministers for differing about Forms For other power of Synods see Mr. Cotton Keys c. p. 25 53 54 Our Divines in their Preface to his Book say they have a Ministerial power and Authority to determine declare and enjoyn such things as may tend to reduce such Congregations to right order and peace The summe is this the Congregational men goe so far that men who have any conscience will fear to oppose and crosse them and for those who have no conscience they will little regard the Synods formal delivering to Satan but then we hope the Magistrate will not tolerate such as have no conscience nor suffer such heretical persons to vent their Heresies when the Synod hath proceeded to Excommunion or Non-communion our Author saith he must not doe so Then he helps both the Classical and Congregational Churches Yet a few more words to see if I can make things plain 1. Every Pastour of a Church hath the power of government he is a Ruler in the Church he depends on no man for this he hath it from Christ immediately annexed to his office inseparably As soon deny a Magistrate to have power of ruling in a Commonwealth as a pastor in the Church The title implies as much with divers others in Scripture They are Ministers true so is the Magistrate Rom. 13.4 Minister of God And these are called Ministers of God 2 Cor. 6.4 and