know which is the true Church of Christ can know it no wayes but onely by the Scriptures because all those things which belong to Christ in truth the heresies also haue in schisme Therefore if any man would know which is the true Church of Christ how shall he know it in so great confusion of likenesse but by the Scriptures onely For this cause the Lord knowing the confusion of things that should happen in the latter dayes commaundeth that such Christians as will receiue assurance of faith shall flie to no other thing but to the Scriptures else if they looke to other matters they shall be offended and they shall perish not knowing which is the true Church Againe vpon these words By their fruits ye shall know them a In c. 7. Math. he saith A mans fruite is the confession of faith and his workes are the conuersation of his life therefore if thou see a Christian man straightway consider that if his confession agree with the Scripture then he is a true Christian but if it be not as Christ commanded then is he a false Christian for Christ hath referred the triall of a Christian not to the name but to the confession c. Saint Austin hath left written an excellent booke against the Donatists who pretended as the Papists now do that the Church was onely among them wherein he handleth this question at large how the true Church may be knowne and by what markes Thus he writeth in b Liber con tâ— PetilianuÌ„ Donatist Epistol seu de vnitate Ecclesiae c. 2. that booke The question betweene vs and the Donatists is where is the Church What therfore shall we do shall we seeke it in our owne words or in the words of her head our Lord Iesu Christ I thinke we ought to seeke it rather in his words who is the truth and best knoweth his owne body c Cap. 3. Let not these speeches be heard among vs This I say and this thou saiest but let vs heare These things saith the Lord. There are certaine bookes of God vnto whose authoritie we both consent we both beleeue we both stand there let vs seeke the Church there let vs trie our cause Let those things therefore be remoued from vs which we bring one against another not out of the holy Canonicall bookes but aliunde Because I will not haue the holy Church demonstrated by mans teaching but by the holy oracles of God d Cap. 16. therefore setting aside all such matters let them shew foorth the Church if they can not by the speeches and rumors of the Africans not in the Councels of their Bishops not in the writings of euery disputer not in signes and false miracles because Gods word hath prepared and made vs readie against these things but let them declare it out of the prescript of the law the prediction of the Prophets the songs of the Psalmes the words of the Pastor himselfe I enquire the Church it selfe where it should be which hearing the words of Christ and doing them buildeth vpon the rocke let him then shew me the Church and let him so shew it that he say not this is true because I say it or because my fellowes haue said it or those our Bishops or this is true because Donatus or Pontius or some other hath done such or such miracles or because men pray and are heard at the monuments of our dead or because such and such things haue happened there or because such a brother or such a sister of ours hath seene such a vision or had such a dreame let these things be remoued either as the deuices of lyers or as no better then the miracles of deceitfull spirits for either they are not true which are reported or if heretickes haue any wonders done among them it standeth vs in hand to beware the more But whether they haue the Church or not let them declare onely by the Canonicall bookes of the holy Scriptures These be the instructions these be the foundations these be the supporters of our cause By all which discourse it appeareth that Austin thought the true faith was the note of the true Church or else to what purpose should he so earnestly reuoke the Donatists froÌ„ all other courses to the tryall of the canonicall Scriptures if he had not bene of mind that the faith alone consenting with them had bene the infallible signe of the Church as he speaketh also in e Epist 166. another place In the Scriptures haue we learned Christ in the Scriptures haue we learned the Church § 25. I proue it because by true faith either is meant true faith onely in some points or in all it is not a good marke to say that is the true Church which teacheth the true faith in some points onely for all heretickes teach truth in some points and though it be proper to the true Church to be so guided by the holy Ghost that it teach the infallible truth in all points as before hath bene proued yet this is not a good marke whereby all sorts of men may and ought to come to know which is the true Church of which if they will be saued they must needs learne an infallible faith The Answer 1 We do not think euery company to be the true Church that holdeth onely some points of the true faith for all heretickes teach the truth in some things and yet we deny them to be the Church of God but f Act. 4.12 1. Cor. 3.11 Eph. 2.19 it is requisite that the foundation be holden that is to say all such truths deliuered as are necessary for all mens saluation and such heresies auoyded as destroy the foundation which kind of teaching is an infallible note whereby all Churches and professions may be tryed and we meane it when we say the faith is a marke of the Church 2 Neither yet do we thinke as the Iesuite speaketh that any visible church teacheth this truth so infallibly that it erreth in nothing we thinke and g §. 14. 15. I haue shewed the contrary for this befalleth the Church that it may be ignorant of many truthes for a time it may hold the faith sometime more sometime lesse purely it may build hay and wood vpon the foundation it may be infected with the errors and heresies of some therein and some articles lying in the very foundation may be beleeued not so clearely as h Mark 16 14. Luc. 24 5.11.12.21.25.37 Ioh. 20.25 the resurrection of Christ was for a time not well vnderstood which things though they befall the Church the holy Ghost teaching it but by degrees yet is not the faith thereby taken from it but abideth â—ufficient to giue testimony of saluation to all that will follow it And this is confirmed by the confession of our aduersaries themselues who say i Bell. de Not. Eccl. c. 2. that to erre and yet to be ready to learne and when you haue learned to
for the most part also neglecting such exercises of religion by praier contemplation and repentance as of right ought to be ioyned with the outward abstinence yea they place and practise fasting e Dicimus quod de essentia iciunij quoad mo dum sunt duo scil vna comestio in spacio 24 horarum abstinentia à carnibus quis lacticinijs Llamas Sum. Eccl. p. 390. onely in forbearing flesh and things coming of flesh on certaine daies allowing themselues in steed thereof not onely fish which is as good as flesh but that which is daintier wine conserues sweet meates and such like in as great measure as can be as the experience of this our countrey sheweth among such as are Popishly affected 3 And suppose we had omitted all fasting indeed and allowed no time for it yet some Papists would haue borne vs company herein that so themselues might be guilty of breaking fasting daies as well as we For f Catharin adu noua dogm Caietan p. 262. Caietan holdeth It is no where commanded but onely by custome was brought in and is necessary neither for the seruice of God nor the loue of our neighbour Wherin though we refuse his iudgment yet touching our putting away the distinction of meates and daies we are not to be blamed For what libertie or loosenes can possibly be imagined to proceed froÌ„ eating flesh more theÌ„ froÌ„ eating of fish sweet meats spices other things finer theÌ„ flesh which the g Tho. 22 qu. 147. art 6. 7. 8. Llam method part 3. c. 5. §. 24. 26. Church of Rome alloweth And how may it be conceiued to be such disorder on a Friday or in Lent or on a Saints euen to eate butter or egs or a bit of vndainty flesh when they that are busiest in controlling it the same daies will drinke strong wine and other drinkes and eate confections of better stuffe and warmer operations Or why should a man be censured for eating his meate on an Ember day that fasts carefully and zealously vpon any day without respect of difference Especially h Fran. Victo relect 9. de temperant p. 132. our aduersaries confessing There is no kinde of nourishment either of plants or liuing creatures but by the law of God and nature we may lawfully vse it Nothing can be obiected but the precept of the Church for i Rational l. 6. c. 7 nu 22. p. 268. Durands reason is too grosse that fish is eaten and not flesh because God cursed the earth but not the waters in that his spirit moued on them But what such authoritie hath a particular Church to make a generall law against that which God and nature left at large and what such iurisd ction hath Rome of late obtained that it should forbid that which the Church in old time permitted 4 For k Theoâ— epit diuin decret c. vlt. Niceph l. 12 c. 34. all antiquitie can witnesse that in the Primitiue Church fasting was held an indifferent thing euery maÌ„ was left to his owne mind therein * Laxus ac liber modus abstinendi ponitur eúctis neque nos seuerus terror impellit sua queâ—que cogit velle potestas Prâ—d Cathem hym 8. no law binding him to this or that maner as l Comment in Act. c. 13. quem refert Catha adu Caiet p. 262. Caietan confesseth Montanus a condemned hereticke being the first that euer brought in the lawes of fasting from whom the Papists haue borrowed them For Irenaeus that liued 1400. yeares ago m Euseb hist l. 5. c. 26. Niceph. l. 4. c. 39. testifieth concerning the keeping of Lent in his time that some fasted before Easter one day onely some two daies some more and the vnitie of faith was well maintained notwithstanding all this varietie n 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 hom 2. de ieiun p. 135. Basil mentioneth onely fiue daies And Socrates o Hist l 5 c. 22. writeth how it was obserued one way in one place and another way in another They in Rome fasted three weekes onely and excepted Saterdaies and Lords daies The Illyrians and Greekes sixe weekes Others began seuen weekes before Easter yet so as they fasted but a few daies of all that time The like varietie they obserued in meates For in some places they eat no liuing thing at all some onely fish some fish and foule some dry bread some would eate no berries or egges and some not so much as bread For in these matters the Apostles left euery man to his owne will p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sozom. l. 1. c. 11. Spiridion the Bishop of Cyprus though he kept Lent yet was it but vpon certaine daies that he fasted and when a stranger came to him vpon one of those same daies he set swines flesh before him and eat thereof with him Yea q Câ—ropâ—lat de 〈◊〉 sic p 118. iâ—i Pacius annot p. 322. graec they kept a Lent before the feast of Christs natiuity also which we do not And touching Saterdaies r Ignat. ep ad Philip. Sext. Syn. in Trul. c. 55. some vtterly condemned fasting that day yet Å¿ Aug. ep 86. other obserued it And t Haeres 75. Epiphanius thought it an Apostolicall tradition to fast Wednesdaies and Fridaies excepting those betweene Easter and Whitsontide which yet the Church of Rome obserueth not And as for Ember daies and Saints euens we finde no vse of them for fasting till of late times And touching this whole question of fasting dayes let it be marked what t Ep 86. ad Casulan pa nò ante finem Saint Augustine writeth to a friend of his If saith he you aske my opinion concerning this matter I find in the writings of the Euangelists and Apostles and all the new Testament that we are commaunded to fast but what dayes we must fast and what dayes we must not I find it not determined by any commandement of Christ or his Apostles So that if we be faultie because we fast not after the Romish manner then themselues are likewise faultie because they fast not after the Primitiue order there being no greater reason why they should condemne vs for neglecting their fasts then why we should condemne them for neglecting the fasts of the auncient Church nor any cause why our libertie in the vse of meates and dayes should be taken in worse part now then the same libertie vsed of old in the Primitiue Church when these things depended vpon the will of him that fasted 5 And possible our accusers breake fasting dayes in the same maner that we do For first they eate as often and as good as we do when they fast Next they haue dispensations u Dispensati ieiuniuÌ„ non frangunt Llam metho pag. 395. which exempt them from fasting so commonly and of course that any man may see the Pope defined fasting by meates and dayes for no other cause but to vtter his pardons
THE WAY TO THE TRVE CHVRCH wherein The principall Motiues perswading to Romanisme and Questions touching the nature and authoritie of the Church and Scriptures are familiarly disputed and driuen to their issues where this day they sticke betweene the Papists and vs Contriued into an Answer to a Popish Discourse concerning the Rule of Faith and the marks of the Church And published to admonish such as decline to Papistrie of the weake and vncertaine grounds whereupon they haue ventured their soules Directed to all that seeke for resolution and especially to his louing countrimen of Lancashire By IOHN WHITE Minister of Gods word at Eccles. For the finding out of the matter and questions handled there are three Tables two in the beginning and one in the end of the Booke ¶ De hoc inter nos Quaestio versatur vtrum apud Nos an apud Illos vera Ecclesia sit August de vnit Eccles cap. 2. LONDON Printed for IOHN BILL and WILLIAM BARRET 1608. TO THE MOST REVEREND FATHERS IN GOD TOBIE THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF YORKE HIS GRACE Primate and Metropolitane of England and to GEORGE Lord Bishop of Chester his very good Lords WHen I first peÌ„ned this Treatise which now I offer to your Lordships I did it for mine owne priuate exercise and the satisfying of certaine friends that desired it Afterward seeing some hope that it might doe good abroad principally in the countrey where I dwell and desirous if it were possible to do any thing that might helpe the seduced out of their errors and confirme the rest in the truth I was easily perswaded to put it forth and the rather for that the questions handled touching THE AVTHORITIE AND SENCE OF THE SCRIPTVRE and SIGNES OF THE CHVRCH are the profitablest that can be stood vpon and such as I haue alway obserued our people commonliest vse and most desire to looke into not being able to apprehend the difference or iudge of the reasons in other questions but presuming that if by certain marks they could find which is the true Church there would remaine litle difficultie in the rest forsomuch as therein they should find the truth in euery controuersie 2 The proper cause why our aduersaries put this deuice into the peoples heads was to dazle their eyes and delude their sences with the name of THE CHVRCH that when they should find the word of God and all discourse against their opinions yet that name should amaze them while they might beleeue nothing vntill they were perswaded by other marks that it came from the CHVRCH And no doubt this is the a Apollodor Bibliothec. li. 2. Gorgons head that inchanteth and oppresseth them euen the learnedst of them all and holdeth them in bondage to their errors hauing a conceit that they wil heare nothing against the Church which they presuming to be the Papacy though it be but AN IMPOSTVME BRED IN THE CHVRCH or A DISEASE GROWING TO IT will go no further All their speech is of the Church no mention of the Scriptures or God their Father but their MOTHER THE CHVRCH Much like as b Solin poly hist c. 33. they write of certaine Aethiopians that by reason they vse no mariage but promiscuously companie together it cometh that the children onely follow the mother the fathers name is in no request but the mother goeth away with all the reputation Let their talke be listened and their bookes perused and it will appeare this authoritie of their Church is at the end of euery question and striketh the stroke as c Philostrat in imaginib one saith pleasantly of Aesops Fables that therein the Foxe is the chiefe stickler of all the company The beasts seldom meet but he is among them and beareth his part with the busiest 3 This matter is handled in this Booke betweene my aduersarie and me For though others haue done the same before me yet I haue done it in mine owne method The water is all one but the vessell wherein I haue brought it is my owne And it was the iudgement of d Trinit l. 1. c. 3. de Mendacio c. 6. Saint Austine that In places infected with heresie all men should write that had any facultie therein though it were but the same things in other words that all sorts of people among many bookes might light vpon some and the enemie in all places might find some to encounter him The Iesuites which are the Popes Ianizaries that guard his person and were brought in now at the last cast when the state of the Papacie was at a dead lift to support the waight of the maine battell haue pestered the land with their writings and filled the hands and pockets of all sorts of people with their papers yea fannes and feathers are lapped vp in them wherein it is admirable to see how presumptuously they take vpon them in disgracing our persons belying our doctrine and coining and defending strange opinions of their owne neuer heard of afore as if Chrysippus schoole had bred them e Diog. Laert. in Chrysip who vsed to make his boast that many times he wanted opinions to aduance but if once he had the opinion he neuer wanted arguments to defend it whose writings seeing they cannot be suppressed pitie but they were effectually answered The applause that ignorant and vnsetled minds giue them and the conquest that of late yeares they haue made of a few Libertines and discontented persons hath so fleshed them that it is incredible how they brag and sing like f Auentin Annal lib. 2. the clownes of Germany when they had expelled the Franks Mille Francos mille Sarmatas semel occidimus Mille mille mille mille mille Persas quaerimus But I dare boldly say it that if the maner how they haue preuailed be looked into g Praescript Tertullians speech will fall out to be true It is the weaknesse of some that giueth them the victory being able to do nothing when they encounter an able faith Discontent and vanitie of mind voide of the knowledge and faithfull practise of religion are good dispositions to heresie They liue Gentiles saith Cyprian and die heretickes h 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Dioâ— Laerâ— in Epicur Epicurus in his time with teaching pleasure and libertie filled the most houses and cities with his friends But if we looke what the motiues were that led them away and what the Iesuites said against vs I presume three verses in i Pâ—â—â—â—ol Plautus will answer them Quid ait quid narrat quaeso quid dicit tibi Nugas theatri verba quae in comoedijs Solent lenoni dici quae pueri sciunt 4 A singular misery no doubt and aboue all other to be lamented that mans mind so free so ready so able with those helpes that God hath left him to search out the truth yet should not be satisfied nor rest contented with heauen and earth or any other thing that God hath reuealed for the finding
Vrspergensis Rhegino Aimon Auentin c. But they answer Hincmarus though he were Archbishop of Rhemes and liued at the same time his authoritie is nothing x Cope p. 582. Vazq p. 309. The words are forged or he was deceiued the rest that followed him are all either corrupted or mistaken y An. 794. n. 33. Baronius saith the bookes of Charles deceiued them Suarez z Tom 1. p. 804 that either they erred or their bookes are corrupted or they speake not of the second Nicene Councel Vasquez a De adorat p. 309. that they were all manifestly deceiued by Hincmarus as Hincmarus was by the bookes of Charles And thus all the blame is layd on that booke the authoritie whereof notwithstanding they cannot infringe though b Ala. Cope p. 566. Bellar. de Concil l. 2. c 8. Suar. tom 1. p. 803. Vazqu 277 Baron an 794. n. 30. they do their vttermost to proue that Charles wrote it not For first it beareth his title as all other books do theirs c Bell. de imag c. 14. Baron n. 31 Secondly it containeth the acts of the Synod of Frankford and the Councell therein confuted is the second Nicene Thirdly d Cope p. 568. Vazqu p. 277. Baron n. 31. it was written in the time of Charles Fourthly e Baron ibid. it was sent by Charles to Pope Adrian Fiftly one chapter thereof f Baron n. 32. 46. is confessed to be the work of Charles himselfe Sixtly and at the worst g Hadrian Ep. ad Carol. tom 3 concil p. 263. it was written by such as were neare about Charles This is a briefe summe of all that long discourse betweene vs touching the Councell of Frankford which I haue obserued that the Reader may perceiue what is to be thought of our aduersaries learning so much bragged of for were it able to do that which is boasted they would neuer suffer themselues thus to be distracted and driuen to these beggerly shifts and foxed out of one hole into another that they know not where to set their foote Let them speake directly and go forward with the point in any controuersie and we feare not their learning h 1 Reg. 20.11 Let not him that girdeth on his harnesse boast himselfe as he that putteth it off i Pro. 21.30 There is no wisedom nor vnderstanding nor counsell against the Lord. 10 This opinion that they haue of their owne learning is it that puffeth them vp and maketh them more then idle euen base and ridiculous in their owne commendations and which ill beseemeth the Ministers of Christ filleth their mouths with contumelious and stagelike speeches against vs such as these are k Rhem. 1. Tim 1.7 In the sight of the learned they are most ignorant of the word of God not knowing the verie principles of Diuinitie euen to the admiration truly of the learned that reade their bookes or heare them preach l Caluinotur cism p. 360. Their vnlearned and beggerly Ministers m Brist mot 31. Looke to their Vniuersities and see whether there be any appointed publicke Readers or Teachers of such matters the mysteries of Diuinitie any that priuately make them their studie whether they do not all in maner studie nothing but the art of speaking or else but certaine new bookes of common places for a few points of their new doctrine and them so lightly that the common sort of Catholickes are able to answer all their arguments and to say also more for them then they can say for themselues n Brist reply p. 364. More declamatiōs in Greek in one common schoole of the Iesuites then in both your Vniuersities o This sheweth they dare say any thing I dare say being ioyned together and better maisters of Arts of two or three yeares teaching through all logicke and philosophie then with you in seuen yeares No no regnum Grāmaticorum is past date all are not children as they were when this geare began your tongues will not now serue no nor your study of Diuinitie it selfe in Caluins Schoole Come once to the Catholike Schooles and you will be ashamed of your selfe as many a one already is that thought himselfe and was thought of others at home a iolly fellow p Hard. confut Apol. pag. 279. And Stapleton saith worse in his Counter bl p. 481. Your Ministers be Tinkers and Tapsters Fidlers Pipers it is incredible to heare their veine in this kind and how they vaunt of themselues withall as if they were playing vpon a stage the first Act and Scaene of Plautus his q Miles gloriosus A liuely picture of our aduersaries impotent brags Braggadochio But it is a base course and cannot be pursued without lying and ostentation and therefore the Gentiles themselues deriding it r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Phurnut de nat Deorum p. 42. Sacrificed an Asse to Mars the God of warres because the noyse and braying of the one agreed fitly with the tumult and confusion of the other the other And yet it were the easiest matter of a thousand to requite them with testimonies of their owne writers For Theodoricke of Niem ſ L. 2. c. 12. de Schism saith Many are created Bishops to day which yesterday like iesters and stageplayers and prodigals did nothing but run vp and downe the streetes and tauernes and suspected places And Clemangis t De corrupt statu eccl p. 15. writeth how innumerable Parish Priests came to their benefices not from the Schooles and their studie but from the plow and seruile occupations which could neither reade nor vnderstand Latin nor know b from a battledoore Yea the Bishops themselues u Pag. 30. saith he haue neither read nor heard nor learned the sacred letters nor so much as touched the Bible vnlesse peraduenture it were the hilling thereof Ignorant and vnlettered persons hold the roomes of Bishops I could easily produce many of their owne authors if our selues had knowne or seene nothing in their old Priests and young Seminaries to discouer as much in their owne Clergie as they reuile vs with whether it be our x Maxima haereticorum pars nimis maturè ex scholis ad pulpita aliosue gradus euocatur Alan Apol. p. 106. youth or conditions or vnlearnednesse if I would imitate their vanitie Their y Sixt. Sen. p. 245. Mus that preached at twelue yeares old their z Baron ann 1033. n. 6. Bennet that was Pope being vnder ten yeares old and a Baron ann 955. nu 1. 2. Iohn not aboue sixteene their b Baron ann 925. n. 9. Archbishop of Rhemes at fiue yeares old their c See D. Reyn. apol thes p. 292. Cardinals vnder 12. yeares old their d Baron an 925. n 11. youths and nephewes thrust into Bishoprick their e Sa. apho pag. 208. idiots allowed to minister These such like practises of their Church will shew what small cause
there is why they should disdaine vs supposing we had lesse learning then we haue Irenaeus f L. 2. c. 45. hath a saying which I commend vnto them when they thinke they haue so much vantage of learning against vs It is better and more profitable to be simple and of small knowledge and by loue to approach neare God then to thinke themselues to know much and to be of high experience and in the meane while to be found blasphemers against God 11 We know no cause therefore why we should not constantly and cheerfully go forward with our profession and confirme our selues daily more and more therin against all the premises and oppositions of the Romane Church whatsoeuer First we haue the Scripture in manifest places free from all ambiguitie on our side secondly we haue the principles of religion contained in the Lords praiers the Creed and the ten Commandements that directly leadeth to euery point of our faith Which is the true reason why the Church of Rome forbiddeth the reading and exercise of these things to the people lest they should see so much Thirdly we haue the ancient fathers in expresse termes in all things that they held constantly certainly with one consent I do not deny but our aduersaries in some smaller points as Purgatory praier for the dead may make shew of some particular opinions in the fathers but vpon triall it will fall out they held theÌ„ waueringly doubtfully that no certainty can be set downe touching their resolute iudgement Whereas in the principall points touching the Scriptures iustification merit of workes images and all the rest they write most clearely with vs. Fourthly and which may perswade any man not drunken with his owne preiudice we haue the mercies of God to pleade for vs whereby our Church hath bene miraculously vpholden when they threatned God defended vs when they practised and expected our vtter ruine God disappointed them when they wrought all maner of treasons yet God deliuered vs. Fiftly and this is our further assurance that we haue done nothing against the Church of Rome but innumerable people in all ages wished it long ago What ceremony what doctrine what custome what one parcell of their superstition haue we refused but the world long since complained of it yea the learnedst men that were groned vnder the very burthens that we haue haue shaken off g Evetusto quoâ—am libro refert Illyric catolog test tom 2. p. 805. It is written of Gerson the Chauncellor of Paris who liued about one hundred yeares before Luther that the Sorbonists expulsed him the Vniuersitie and in his old age depriued him of all his d gnitiesâ— because as it is like he misliked diuers errors in the Church of Rome What time he betooke himselfe to teaching of schoole wherein his manner was daily to cause all his schollers the little children to ioyne with him in this short praier My God my maker haue mercy vpon thy miserable seruant Gerson It should seeme by this that he tooke small comfort in those times when forsaking all confidence in the glory of his Church he would call for mercy at the hands of God rather in the company of a few poore childreÌ„ then in the societie of such as were reputed the Doctors of the world And it may easily be thought Gerson saw more then he either loued or liked because the moderne Papists reiect his iudgement h Resp Card. Bellar. ad resolut Io. Gerson confute his writings and i Fra. Victoria relect 4. p. 138. say This Doctor in all things was an enemie to the Popes authoritie and with his heresie infected many others His opinion touching this matter little different from schisme Yea at this day they see more errors then they will reforme O God saith k Naucler pag. 499. one of their Historiographers what will become of our age when our vices are grown to that that they haue scarce left vs any place with God for mercy What couetousnesse is therein Priests what lust what ambition what idlenes what pompe what ignorance both of theÌ„selues and of Christian doctrine how little religion and fained rather then true God haue mercy on vs. 12 And hâ—â—â— omitting the way that is by triall of arguments I offer certaine externall markes and sensible tokens whereby the falshood of the Romane Church may be discouered the most resolute Papist that liueth moued to misdoubt his owne religion for it is vnpossible that these things following should be found in the true Church or practised by men of the right faith The first is their enmitie with the sacred Scriptures the word of God whereof I haue spoken in the 22. Digression of this booke For the words l Esa 8.20 of the Prophet are cleare To the Law to the Testimony if they speake not according to that word it is because there is no light in them And one of their practises against it whereby they haue depriued it froÌ„ being the totall rule hath left theÌ„ vtterly voide of all meanes to secure their faith by and to find the truth For the Church the fathers the Councels the Pope which is all they can pretend are yeelded by themselues to be subiect to error And how can that giue them assurance of their faith which it selfe is not assured from error The second is the very face and outward state and gouernment of their Church cleane contrary to the first antiquitie How vnlike is their Pope to Peter their Cardinals to the Apostles their Prelates to the ancient Bishops in state in ambition in intermedling This is noted at large by many among themselues Zabarella Cusanus Marsilius Occham Duarenus How vnlike is their priuate Masse halfe Communion Latin Seruice Image worship to the ancient Seruice of the Church of God If it were the true Church no continuance of time could thus haue altered it age changeth the colour of a mans haire and the sound of his voice but not his complexion or the shape of his bodie The third is that THERE IS NO POINT OF OVR FAITH BVT MANY LEARNED IN THEIR OWNE CHVRCH HOLD IT WITH VS AND NO POINT OF PAPISTRIE THAT WE HAVE REIECTED BVT SOME OF THEMSELVES HAVE MISLIKED IT AS WELL AS WE And this may be demonstrated in all the questions that are betweene vs and they know it and for that cause haue purged and razed the principall bookes of the elder Papists and some of them they haue vtterly forbidden In the bookes of latter Catholickes also m Index librorum prohib p. 25. §. 3. saith the Index which were written since the yeare 1515. if that which needeth correcting can be amended by taking away or adding of a few things let the correctors see it be done but otherwise let it be wholly razed out The fourth is that the most points of Papistrie are directly and at the first sight absurd and against common sence and the law of nature For who can conceiue
so strange First their custome and long continuance in blindnesse bindeth them in there being nothing harder then to breake an ignorant man of his custome b De Doctrin Christ l. 4. c. 24. Saint Austin coming to Caesarea where the people had an ancient custome once a yeare for certaine daies together to diuide themselues into parts and throw stones one at another whereby many were slaine found it an exceeding hard matter to disswade them from it Then the societie and alliance whereby they are linked one to another restraineth them being ashamed to depart with their acquaintaince and the things which long continuance of friends hath inured them to This is noted by S. Basil in the vulgar of his time seduced by Arius There is c Ep. 70. saith he small hope of reducing them to the truth who are linked to heretickes with the band of long amitie And Saint Austin yeeldeth the same reason why the Donatists could so hardly be reclaimed How many d Ep. 48. ad Vincent saith he being moued with the truth would euen presently haue bene good Catholickes and yet deferred it daily fearing the offence of their friends How many did not the truth but the heauy band of obdurate custome hold together who thought thâ— Church to be with Donatus because their security made them slouthfull and lazie in searching the truth How many were hindred by the rumours and slanders that went of vs How many stucke to Donatus because there they were borne and no man constrained them to depart thence and go to the Catholicke Church Finally they are in the hands of skilfull workemen and wary leaders that know how to entertaine and hold them and with faire words to deceiue the simple whos 's first worke when they seaze vpon a Proselite alway is to teach him foure conclusions before he go any further and I wonder their drift therein is not espied First that the Protestants are heretickes and their Church come vp but lately and therfore he must neuer heare any Protestant or regard what he saith in the matter of religion Next that the Romane Church is the true Church wherein onely saluation is to be found and this Church can erre and teach false in nothing Thirdly that the Scriptures are obscure imperfect troublesome and therefore it is not for simple men to meddle with them or once to hope that they caÌ„ therby come to any certain resolutioÌ„ And then lastly that in all things he must referre himselfe to his mother the Church and his ghostly father to whose cure God hath committed him whose directions if he will follow resolutely he may be carelesse in all the rest When silly creatures haue drunke in these principles which a wise man will examine before he beleeue what maruell is it if they be hardly conuerted and when their teachers haue thus hedged them in and taken away their eyes their eares their vnderstanding it is no wonder if they be easily trained into any thing 17 Who are againe and againe to be admonished that they looke into these things because no lesse then the saluation of their soules lieth vpon it and it is the foolishest thing in world in matters of such consequence to rely on the persons of men or our owne affection For which cause and for whose sakes I have penned this booke to shew the full triall of such motiues as they seeme to stand vpon And whosoeuer will reade it attentiuely shall finde therein a iust and complete answer to the principallest things that are obiected against our Church Yea he shal reape this benefit by reading it that he shall see the very point where diuers questions sticke that are much talked of but little vnderstood by many I haue done it moderately and with all the respect of my aduersary that I could I haue meddled with the persons of no man but onely debated the cause and followed the argument as it led me And I will freely confesse that my aduersaries kinde of writing which I much liked allured me to answer him because as it is schollerlike performed so it bringeth aboord the best questions reasons that are ordinarily discoursed His writing is borrowed wholly froÌ„ Gregory of Valentia his Analysis fidei tract de obiecto fidei who is as acute an aduersarie as any this day disputeth against vs. In my answer I hold this course throughout to lay the argument or question plainly downe and then to answer it directly and perspicuously that the reader may vnderstand what is said And because the iudgement of the ancient Church is much obiected against vs I haue indeuoured to cleare that point also by shewing in euery question as the cause requireth the practise of the Primitiue Church and the opinions of the fathers concer-cerning the points And although in their time they knew not of our questions the Papacy being risen since their dayes whereby they might speake directly as witnesses betweene vs yet teaching the truth of the Gospell which the Papists haue corrupted they shew who be the innouators and to this day strike the Church of Rome as if they liued and saw it wherein we are so well assured that we embrace that kind of triall which is by antiquity most contentedly and daily finde our aduersaries to be galled thereby e Sim. Metaphrast vit Epiphan The Legend telleth that Epiphanius being dead as he lay on the ground and one looking curiously at him gaue him such a blow with his foote that he strooke the winde out of his belly Thus the Fathers dead in their graues yet strike our aduersaries to the ground with their feete that if the Pope were not made interpreter to helpe at a dead lift they could not stand an houre Which is such a iest that no doubt themselues smile at it For if the Fathers rule the questions of faith and the Pope rule the Fathers and the Church of Rome the Pope this wil be like f Plutarck the merry conceite of a little boy in Athens the sonne of Themistocles that plâ—ying among his companions would tel them he could rule all Athens For saith he my father can rule Athens and my mother can rule my father and I can rule my mother 18. Againe in all the questions handled I haue confirmed our owne doctrine and expositions and confuted our aduersaries by the authoritie and testimonies of the Papists themselues which course I dare vndertake may be maintained in all the questions betweene vs and I haue obserued it principally to make it appeare that the Romish faith came in by the faction of some particular persons and was alway resisted as it grew and contradicted by learned men and that our aduersaries mouths may be stopped when they shall see some learned man or other in their owne Church to hold the same things that we do g Refert sed ipsa nosse quae messemnecant Zizaniorum se mina Prud. apotheos The Church of God hath alway
secreti regula Pastor erit Roma suis magna suis Brittannia normam Pandit in incertum ne rapiare caue Consilium Medici Pastoris consule vocem Iudicium certum PAGINA SACRA dabit Le. Asshaw ar A BRIEFE DISCOVRSE CONCERNING FAITH BY WHICH IS euidently declared how euery one that hath a desire to please God and a care to saue his soule the which should be the chiefe desire and care of euery Christian man ought to resolue and settle himselfe in all points questions and controuersies of faith The Answer IF the Discourse had performed what the Title promiseth you had bene beholding to the man that bestowed it on you the rather because the coÌ„trouersies of the present time haue changed the sweet Spring of our Church into a stormy Winter But seeing the author thereof vnder colour of directing you in the controuersies goeth about to make another Eue of you by seducing your minde from the simplicitie that is in Christ you haue little cause to thanke him and a Deut. 27.18 he lesse to reioyce in his labour For his reasons whereby he thinketh to declare his matter so euidently all tend to perswade you that the Pope of Rome b Gregorius decimus tertius filiorum ecclesiae pater amantissimus Camp rat 5. apud Posseu bibl l. 7. c. 21. his fast frieÌ„d c Nomine Ecclesiae intelligimus eius caput id est Romanum PontificeÌ„ Gregor de Valent. in Thom. tom 3. pag. 24. Venet. is this verie Rule that must resolue you in these points questions and controuersies of faith An vnreasonable position voyd of all indifferencie when common sense teacheth that he which is a partie cannot be iudge and d Niceph. Gregor hist lib 10. cap. vlt. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that which it selfe is a thing wauering and inconstant cannot be the Rule to discerne the right by What father e Luc. 11.11 saith Christ if his sonne aske him bread will giue him a stone or if he aske a fish will giue him a serpent yet thus the Iesuite hath dealt with you But f Epicharm the heathen mans counsell is good Be sober and suspicious and g 1. Thes 5.21 the Apostles better Trie all things and sticke to that which is good Neither must you hope to learne truth in the schoole of lies for they that seeke Christ among heretickes shall lose him § 1. First it is to be suppoâ—ed and set downe for a certaine ground that there is but one faith which whosoeuer wanteth cannot possibly please God nor consequently be saued since none are saued which do not please God This is proued out of S. Paule who in one place saith Vna fides Ethes 4 and in another Sine fide impossibile est placere Deo Heb 11. The which two places make this sence in English Faith is but one and without faith it is impossible to please God Secondly this one faith without which we cannot please God must be infallible and most certaine because faith is the credite and inward assent of mind which we giue to the word of God the prime and first veritie which neither can deceiue nor be deceiued Fides saith the same S. Paule Rom. 10 ex auditu auditus per verbum Dei The sence of which words be that faith is bred in vs by hearing and yeelding assent to the word of Christ who is of God The Answer 1 Both these conclusions be true and you shall graunt them to be as himselfe calleth them certaine grounds wherein we all agree that there is but one faith wherein we can be saued and this faith must be infallible or certaine that is free from error and such as cannot deceiue vs beleeuing nothing that false is And this later is well proued Because faith is the assent of the mind that we giue to the word of God which word being the first truth neither can deceiue vs nor be deceiued it selfe This confirmation I say will serue meaning by the word of God the holy Scriptures for h Cyrill Hiero. fol. cat 4. the securitie of our faith ariseth from the demonstration of the diuine Scriptures i 1. Cor. 4.6 that no man presume aboue that which is written 2 But if by the word of God which cannot deceiue nor be deceiued he meane also the Constitutions of his Church and the Popes Decrees which they call Traditions then his confirmation is naught and we reiect it because the words thereof will be resolued into this sence That our faith or religion to this end that it may be infallible must be grounded partly on Traditions and partly on the Scriptures and the certaintie thereof dependeth no lesse on the former then on the later a point which no wise man will graunt considering that such Traditions are so farre from securing our faith that directly they leade it into a verie sea of errors and vncertainties and being once admitted euery Friers dreame and base custome of the Romish Church shall be thrust vpon you for an article of religion necessarie to eternall life And I dare vndertake the Iesuit in this place by the word of God of Christ meaneth these verie Traditions so farre that put him to it and before he wil forgo them or hazard the least of his Papall Decrees you shall see him k Vide as quaÌ„ti ponderis sit ipsa traditio vt ex ipsa noui testamenti scripta omnia authoritatem acceperint quam qui non admiâ—tunt ab ipsis etiam canonicis scriptis excidat necesse est Traditio est scripturarum fundamentum In eo scripturas excellunt quod illae nisi traditione firmentur non subsistant hae vero etiam sine scriptis suaÌ„ obtineant firmitatem Caes Baron annal tom 1. an 53. nu 11. verie strangely speake of the Scriptures as the l Demades Eras apop man of Athens that thought his countreymen should not by striuing for heauen in the meane time venter to lose the earth Digression 1. Prouing that the Papists grounding the doctrine of faith on Traditions make them equall to the written word 3 For the Trent Councell m Sess 4. decret 1. decreed they should be receiued with the same reuerence and affection wherewith we receiue the Scripture it selfe Canus n Loc. l. 3. c. 3. saith Many things belong to Christian faith which are contained in the Scripture neither openly nor obscurely o Confess Petric c. 92. Hosius saith the greatest part of the Gospell is come to vs by tradition very little of it is committed to writing p De Purgat cap. 11. Peltanus that many verities lye hidden in the Church which if she would reueale we were bound to beleeue with the same faith wherwith we beleeue the things reuealed in the Scriptures q Vaux Canisius English catech c. 1. The Popish Catechismes teach that Faith is a certaine light wherwith whosoeuer is enlightened he firmely agreeth to all such things as
God hath set forth by his Church to be learnâ—d of vs whether they be written or not written Doctor Standish in r Cap. 6. probat 3. his booke against English Bibles crieth out Take from them the English damnable translations and let them learne the mysteries of God reuerently by heart and learne to giue as much credit to that which is not expressed as to that which is expressed in the Scripture Å¿ D. 40. Si Papa in Annot. margin The Canon law newly set out by Pope Gregorie the thirteenth saith that Men do with such reuerence respect the Apostolicall seate of Rome that they rather desire to know the ancient institution of Christian religion from the Popes mouth then from the holy Scripture and they onely inquire what is his pleasure and according to it they order their life and conuersation So that you see howsoeuer the Iesuite say our faith cannot apprehend a falshood because it assenteth onely to the word of God yet by the word of God he meaneth Romish Traditions as well as the Scripture and so maketh those things of equall truth with it and then beareth you in hand that the certaintie of your faith and religion dependeth on their infallibility as much as on the infallibilitie of the Scripture a point which I would easily graunt him if the question were of the Romish faith for I confesse it dependeth vpon Traditions more then on the written word so farre forth that as t Andrad Orthodox explicat lib. 2. quam traditionum authoritatem si tollas nutare iam vacillare videbuntur pag 80. a Doctor of his owne side speaketh Many points therof would reele and totter if they were not supported with the helpe of Traditions But against this let the iudgement of u Regul contract 95. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 pag. 502. Basil be noted by the way It is necessary and consonant to reason that euery man learne that which is needfull out of the Scriptures both for the fulnesse of godlinesse and lest they inure themselues to humane Traditions § 2. Thirdly the one and infallible faith without which we cannot please God must be also entire whole and sound in all points and it is not sufficient to saluation to beleeue stedfastly some points and not other some So saith Athanasius his Creed receiued of all Quicunque vult saluus esse c. Whosoeuer will be saued before all things it is needful that he hold the catholike faith which vnlesse euery one keepe entire and inuiolate without doubt he shall perish euerlastingly Againe to beleeue some points of faith and to denie others is heresie as not to beleeue anie point of faith at all is absolute infidelitie But it is certain euen out of Scripture that neither infidell nor heretick shall be saued For our Sauiour hath absolutely pronounced Qui non crediderit condemnabitur Marc. 16. And the Apostle S. Paule Gal. 5. putteth heresies among the workes of the flesh saying Manifesta sunt opera carnis quae sunt fornicatio fictae 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which is in English heresies of all which he saith Qui talia agunt regnum Dei non consequentur Moreouer the reason why anie one point of faith is vnder paine of damnation to be beleeued by Christian diuine and infallible faith is because God almightie hath reuealed it and by his Church hath proposed it vnto vs and commanded it to be beleeued for otherwise they be not points of faith but of opinion or of some other kinde of knowledge Therefore all points of faith are vnder paine of damnation to be beleeued The Answer 1 This third conclusion toucheth a second propertie required in sauing faith and it must be granted him with the confirmation thereof in a true sence namely that we are bound to beleeue the points of saluation by obtaining a particular distinct knowledge of the same in our selues and so assenting to them that our faith may include an apprehension also and knowledge of the things beleeued as well as an assent to the proposition thereof If this be the Iesuites meaning in this place then I embrace it as the truth 2 But peraduenture his mind runs vpon a further matter which his Church teacheth about infolded faith and then you may note the grosse heresie that he thrusts vpon you in his smooth words For x Implicita fâ—des est credere secuÌ„dùm quod ecclesia credit Vnde noÌ„ omnis Christianus teneturillos articulos fidei scire explicitè sed tantùm clerici Iacob de Graf decis lib. 2. ca. 8. nu 16. the Iesuites and Schoolemen teach how the lay-people are not bound to know what the matters of their faith be y Fides meliùs per ignorantiaÌ„ quà m per notitiam definitur Bellar. de iust l. 1. c. 7. ignorance is better it sufficeth if they consent to the Churches faith whatsoeuer it be assuring themselues it beleeueth and knoweth all things necessary but what those things are they need not enquire thus excluding knowledge from the nature of religion and placing it in assent onely as sufficient to make it whole and entire This being a sottish conceit deuised for the nonce to suppresse knowledge yet marke how boldly these men presse it on vs with the style of an entire faith which I manifest further in the Digression following Digression 2. Shewing the infolded faith of the Papists and confuting the same as not entire 3 For howsoeuer the Church of Rome pretend this whole complete faith yet when the matter cometh to scanning she vtterly refuseth knowledge sendeth her children to schoole to the Collier of him to learne to beleeue as the Church beleeueth For first whereas z Mat. 22.29 Chrys ho 3. in Laz. prol hom in Rom. the ignorance of the Scriptures is the roote of all error and the cause of vnbeleefe a Index lib. prohib Reg. 4. the Church of Rome forbiddeth the reading of them among the people b Franc. Ouan Mogol breuilo in 4. sent D. 13. prop. 3. pretending the vulgar translations to be one principal cause of heresies and therefore c Linwood in constitut prouinc l. 5. titul de magistris cap. Quia when the law was in their owne hand they vtterly forbad them d Mart. Peres de trad pag. 44. One of them saith he thinketh verily it was the diuels inuention to permit the people to reade the Bible e Thyâ—rae de Demoniac cap. 21. th 257. Another writeth that he knew certaine men to be possessed of a diuell because being but husbandmen they were able to discourse of the Scriptures Thus theeues put out the candle that discouers them 4 Next f Nauarr. Manual cap. 11. nu 16. Iacob de Graff decis l. 4. cap. 24 nu 23. they make it heresie for a lay man to dispute in a point of faith and g Magin Geograph pag. 104. Linwood lib. 5. tit de Magist c. periculosa suffer no
of them Thomas of Aquin e Lect. 1. in 1. Tim. 6. saith The doctrine of the Apostles and Prophets is called canonicall because it is the rule of our vnderstanding And againe f 1. qu. art 8. Our faith resteth and stayeth it selfe vpon the reuelation giuen to the Apostles and Prophets which writ the canonicall bookes and not vpon reuelation if any such haue bene made to other Doctors Antoninus the Archbishop of Florence g Sum. part 3. tit 18. c. 3. §. 3. writeth expresly that God hath spoken but once that in the holy Scripture that so plentifully to meet with all temptations and all cases that may fall out and all good works that as Gregory in the two and twentieth booke of his Morals expounds it he needs no more speake vnto vs concerning any necessary matter seeing all things are found in the Scripture Gerson h Trithem catal Script eccl the great man of the Councell of Constance i De Commun sub vtraque specie saith the Scripture is the rule of our faith which being well vnderstood no authority of men is to be admitted against it Durand k Praefat. in Sentent saith that generally in the things that touch our faith we must speake to that which the scripture deliuereth lest any maÌ„ fall into that which the Apostle noteth 1. Cor. 8. If he thinke he knoweth something yet he knoweth nothing as he ought to know for the maner of our knowledge l Sacra Scriptura mensuram fidei exprimit must be not to exceed the measure of faith and the holy Scripture expresseth the measure of faith Alliaco the Cardinal m 1. Sent. q. 1. art 3.1 Coroll lit H. quoniam ad ipsas fit vltimata resolutio theologici discursus saith The verities themselues of the sacred Canon be the principles of Diuinitie the finall resolution of Theologicall discourse is made into theÌ„ and originally from them is drawne euery conclusion of Diuinitie Conradus Clingius n Locorum l. 3. cap. 29. pag. 298. Norma vlna Index saith The Scripture is the infallible rule of truth yea the measure and iudge of the truth o Iac. Peres à valdiu de ratio Con. l. 2. c. 19. Peresius the Diuinitie reader at Barcilona in Spain saith The authoritie of no Saint is of infallible truth for Saint Austin giues that honor onely to the sacred Scriptures That onely is the rule which is of infallible truth but the Scripture onely is of infallible truth therefore the Scripture onely is the rule Finally Bellarmine himselfe one of the two that haue wonne the garland saith p Biblioth select lib. 7. cap. 2 pag. 458. q De Verb. Dei l. 1. c. 2 Posseuinus acknowledgeth as much as I say against the Iesuites conclusion let his words be excused how they can for thus he q De verb. Dei lib. 1. cap. 2. writeth The rule of faith must be certaine and knowne for if it be not certaine it is no rule at all if it be not knowne it is no rule to vs but nothing is more certaine nothing better knowne then the sacred Scripture contained in the writings of the Prophets and Apostles * Sacr. Scriptura regula credeÌ„di certissima tutissimaque per corporales literas quas cerneremus legeremus erudire nos voluit Deus Wherefore the sacred Scripture is the rule of faith most certain and most safe and God hath taught vs by corporall letters which we might see and reade what he would haue vs beleeue concerning him This he writeth against Swinkfield and the Libertines relying vpon reuelations whereby you may freely iudge whether the truth haue not constrained him to renounce the Iesuits conclusion Shall the Libertines be recalled from their blind reuelations to the written text and shal not the Papists be reuoked from their vncertaine traditions to the same rule Is nothing more knowne nothing more infallible then the Scripture by the Iesuites owne confession and yet shall our Priests reiect it from being the rule as not sufficient to preserue from error not vniuersall enough not knowne enough not infallible enough I pray you consider well how far our aduersaries deale against their owne conscience in this point the same Iesuite saith r De notis Eccl. c. 2. in another place The Scripture is better knowne then the Church in some cases as namely where it is receiued and speaketh plainly and the question is of the Church Now we admit the Scriptures on all hands and all the questioÌ„ betweene vs is about the Church and therefore let them do vs iustice and allow vs the Scripture to be rule and iudge because it is better knowne then the Church let the Iesuit recant his conclusions and yeeld either to the euident testimonies of the text against him or to the iudgement of the Fathers or at the least to the confession of his owne Doctors whose testimonie he may not by Å¿ 2. q. 7. c. Si haereticus Sin auteÌ„ orthodoxus contra haereticum litiget pro orthodoxo quidem haeretici testimonium valeat contra orthodoxum autem solius orthodoxi testimonium valeat the law refuse because they are of his owne church or if he will not then the next booke that he writeth let him send vs word by whom he will be tried and he shall be prouided for Digression 4. containing the very cause why the Papists disable the Scripture so from being the rule 7 Secondly the causes why the Papists disable the Scriptures from being the rule and striue so for their Churches authoritie are especially two First that so they may make themselues iudges in their owne cause For who sees not that if the Church be the rule of faith and theirs be the Church which way the verdict wil go chiefly when they shal behold the Pope with his infallâ—ble iudgement mounted vpon the tribunall and made interpreter of all the euidence that shall be brought in when Scriptures Fathers Councels and Church must all be expounded by his iudgement For u Thom. opusc contra error GraecoruÌ„ Turrecre n. Sum. de eccl l. 3. c. 23. Sâ—mm Syluest verb. Fides nu 2. Aluaâ— Pelag. de planct eccl lib. 1. art 6. Bellarm de Christ l. 2. c. 28. Greg. de Valent. analys fidei this they require that so we might returne them Campians conceit x Ratio 2. apud Posseuin biblioth select lib. 7. c. 18. In fine so they order their matters that you shall haue no triall passe vnlesse you be resolued to stand to the award of themselues that are arraigned 8 Next for that they know and confesse the most and greatest points of their religion euen welnigh all wherein they dissent from vs haue no foundation on the Scriptures but as Andradius y Orthod explic l. 2. speaketh would reele and stagger if tradition supported them not whereupon z Can. locorum l. 3. c. 3. they
admonish one another that there is more strength to confute heretickes in traditions then in the Scripture yea all disputations with them must be determined by traditions so little hope haue they of receiuing any vantage by the Scripture Therfore Bristow dealt surely and circumspectly for his Romane faith a Mot. vltim where teaching his scholler how to deale with a Protestant he biddeth him first get the proud hereticke out of his weake and false castle of onely Scripture into the plaine field of traditions miracles Councels and Fathers and then like cowards they shal not stand For I dare vndertake on a Papists behalfe that put the Scripture to silence and set the Pope as iudge and giue him authoritie to make and repeale lawes to vse traditions approue Councels expound Fathers and Scriptures declare the Churches mind b Papa dicitur coeleste habere arbitrium sententiam quae nulla est facit aliquam De translat episco C. Quanto in Glossa make something of that which is nothing and to vse his will for a lawfull reason and finally as Stapleton c Princip doctr fidei in praefat speaketh let vs imagine that we heare God himselfe speaking in him and therefore vpon his authoritie teaching vs the foundation of our religion must be laid and as Bristow wisely foreseeth the Protestants shall be proued to be cowardly conuicted hereticks indeed Saue that he did not foresee how by confessing so much of his religion to rely onely on tradition and the credit of his Church he hath debarred himselfe and all Papists for alledging the text for it and any man of meane capacitie will easily conceiue what small comfort can be in that religion which is thus acknowledged to haue no warrant from the Scripture And we Protestants cannot but note their conscience and smile at their confidence which are so loud in alledging texts for that which they know and graunt cannot be proued but by tradition and D. Saunders was but in an Irish fit when he cried out so vehemently d Rock of the Church pa. 193. How vnhappie are men now a dayes that hauing most plaine Scriptures not such as possible needs the Churches declaration but most plaine and expresse Scripture not in some which e Multoque maxima pars euangelij peruenit ad nos traditione perexigua literis est mandara Hosius confess c. 92. vide Eck. ench c. 4. de scriptur other Papists could haue bene câ—ntent with but in all points for the Catholicke faith and none at all against the same yet they pretend by the very Scriptures to ouercome the Catholickes If this had bene true traditions should haue bene in lesse account then now they are and the Scriptures more allowed Digress 5. Wherin against the Iesuits conceit secretly implied in his first conclusion it is shewed that the Scriptures ought to be translated into the mother tongue and so read indifferently by the lay people of all sorts 9 If the Iesuite by his generall exception against our English translation meant also to gird at the reading of the Scriptures in the mother tongues and the permission thereof to the common people according to the conceit of f Bellarm. de verbo Dei l. 2. c. 15. Rhem. praefat Staphy apol Petes de tradit part 2. assert 3. pag 43. Ouand breuilo in 4. dist 13. prop. 13. l. edesima c. such as very odiously exclaime against it for that the translated Bibles be in the hands of euery husbandman artificer prentise boy girle mistris maid man c you haue at hand wherewith to answer him For in vaine were the Scriptures giuen vs g Mat. 4 4.7 10. Ephes 6.17 to be our armour against Satan if we might not be exercised in them in vaine are we commaunded h Deut. 6.7 13.12 Ios 1.8 Ioh. 5.39 to search them if they may not be translated for our vnderstanding in vaine are we taught i Col. 3.16 2. Cor. 8.7 2. Pet. 1.5 Heb. 5.12 to abound in knowledge and vnderstanding if the Scripture k Psa 19.7 Prou. 1.2 2. Tim. 3.15 the meanes thereof be holden from vs and in vaine haue the words of Christ and his Church called them l Digress 3. the Rule if we may not vse them or if as Duraeus m Confut. resp Whitak 1. â—at 5. pag. 148. writeth God had left vs not the bookes of the Scriptures but Pastors and doctors or as n Apolo part 2. transl by Stapl. pag. 76. Staphylus counselleth a Portesse containing I know not what parcels were sufficient or if Hosius the Cardinall lie not that o De sacr Vernac legend ignorance of the things we beleeue is worthy not onely of forgiuenesse but also of reward and p De express Dei verbo pag. 91. it is fitter for women to meddle with their distaffe then Gods word 10 But whatsoeuer the conceit of these men may be certaine it is and the Ecclesiasticall stories make it cleare that in the Primitiue church the word of God was not onely permitted the lay people to reade but also for that cause translations were prouided and they called vpon to be diligent in them of what estate soeuer they were q 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Socrat. l. 4. c. 33. Vlphilas a Bishop of the Goths translated the Scriptures into their language that so the barbarians might learne the words of God saith Socrates Auentinus r Annal. l. 4. sayth that Methodius translated them into the Slauonian tongue Å¿ Homil. 1. in Ioh. Chrysostome mentioneth Syrian Egyptian Indian Persian and Ethiopian translations yea others innumerable t De Curand Graecorum affect l. 5 Theodoret saith the Bible was turned into all languages vsed in the world Greeke Latin Egyptian Persian Indian Armenian Scythian Sarmatian which is also proued by this that diuers bookes and fragments of them are extant to this day And concerning our owne nation u Eccles hist gent. Angl. l. 1. c. 1. Bede sheweth that of old it had the Scriptures in all the languages thereof And finally x Rhem. praefac the Papists themselues cannot denie but this was the vse of those auncient times Let the testimonie of Austine be noted for the clearing of the point y De doctrin Christian l. 2. c. 5. It is come to passe that the Scripture wherewith so many diseases of mens wil are holpen proceeding from one tongue which fitly might be dispersed through the world being spread farre and wide by meanes of the diuers languages whereunto it is translated is thus made knowne to nations for their saluation the which when they reade they desire nothing else but to attaine to the mind of him that wrote it and so to the will of God according to the which we beleeue such men spake And what is more common with z Chrysos hom 3. de Laz. ho. 9. ad Coloss hom 2. 5. in Matth. hom 29.
preferred it before the originall Greek Hebrew which Å¿ Andrad defens Trident. fid lib. 4. Ioan. Isaac defens veritatis Hebr. aduers Lindan Molina in 1. Tho. q 27. art 1. disp 3. p. 399. Alponsus Mendoz. contâ—ou Theol. qu. 7 pa. 514. Sixt. Senens bib l. 8. haer 2. pag. 318. Do. Barn part 1. pag. 73. themselues cannot denie to be pure from all corruption and therefore in all sence it were likely we should haue the better translation which so religiously follow the originall I omit to produce examples of the seuerall additions detractions falsifications deprauations intollerable barbarismes of that vulgar Latin others haue done it sufficiently and the learned Papists complaine vpon it bitterly if they could tell how to helpe it but who may lift vp the heele against the Trent brat Thus writeth t de optim gen interpret l. 3. c. 1. 2. 4. 6. Idem Sixt. Senen bib sanc l. 8. in sine pag. 365. latè Dom. Bann in 1. part Tho. qu. 1 pag. 67. inde Lindan their own Bishop It hath monstrous corruptioÌ„s of all sorts scarce one copie can be found that hath one booke of Scripture vndefiled and whole Many points are translated too intricately and darkely some improperly and abusiuely some not so fully nor so well and truly sundry places thrust out from their plaine and naturall sence the translator possible was no Latinist but a smattering Grecian So that if our translation were as bad as the Iesuite or Gregorie Martin could haue said yet were we in as good a case as themselues For when they talke such wonders of their vulgar as for example u Bibl. Com. plut in praefat that it hangeth betweene the Greeke and Hebrew as Christ did betweene two theeues or as Posseuinus x Bibliothec. select lib. 2. ca. 10. speaketh It standeth as the pillar of truth and the hauen whereunto we must betake our selues from the waues of so many different translations I say these and such like maruels are told of it but to bring meÌ„ asleepe for many learned Papists can see no such thing in it § 7. Secondly they faile in the second condition * Aliqui existimaÌ„t Scripturas difficiliores esse quà m vt debeant laicoruÌ„ manibus conteri Sed aliter visum est patribus veteris noui testamenti Claud. EspeÌ„c com Tit. 2. 2. Tim. 3. For the Scriptures of themselues alone be obscure and vnknowne at least to vnlearned men who cannot reade them and therefore they alone in themselues cannot be a sufficient rule to instruct them in all points of faith as is plaine For locke vp an vnliterate man and a Bible together for a time in a studie and he will come foorth as ignorant in matters of faith as he went in if we adde no other meanes but the bare written word which he cannot reade to instruct him and yet vnlearned men may be saued and saued they cannot be without an entire infallible faith and this they cannot haue vnlesse there be some rule and infallible meanes prouided by almightie God accommodate to their capacitie to teach them this faith * The Apostles and Prophets made their writings so plaine and euident to al meÌ„ that euery man of himselfe onely by reading may learne the things spoken therein Chrysost hom 3. de Laz. and Scripture alone as is now proued cannot be a rule of it selfe accommodate to the capacitie of the vnlearned men or apt to instruct them sufficiently in all points of faith The Answer 1 Vnlearned men may be saued and saued they cannot be but by the true faith and this faith they cannot haue without the rule to teach it them all this is true but still the Scripture yea onely Scripture is that rule for any thing the Iesuite hath said in this place a Pro. 1.4 giuing sharpnesse of wit to the simple and to the child knowledge and vnderstanding 2 For his reason to proue it aboue the capacitie of the vnlearned because they cannot reade them nor profit by them without other helpes ioyned is a very shift and an idle cauill concluding as much against himselfe as vs in that the determination of his Romane church without some other meanes added will proue as obscure as the text of Scripture Therefore I answer there be certaine helpes to enable vs to vnderstand the necessitie and requisite condition wherof hinder not the plainnesse and easinesse of the rule as I shewed when b § 4. nu 2. I handled the properties thereof For the word of God c 2. Pet. 1.19 is a light to our wayes and d Heb. 12.5 speaketh to vs as to children in all points of faith and manners easily plainly familiarly but yet there is a necessary condition required that we heare and know this voice which the Iesuites man lockt vp in a studie doth not And will the Iesuite himselfe because a man neuer hearing of the Churches determination abideth still in ignorance giue me leaue to inferre hereupon that therefore the Church is not the rule and yet the reason is all one Againe there be certaine impediments some naturall as infancie vnlearnednesse some sinfull as ignorance pride frowardnesse which must be remoued afore we can heare the Scriptures as they must also afore we can heare the Church for which cause the Lord hath giuen vs e Rom. 10 14. Eph. 4.11 the ministery of his Pastors and other meanes so that if a man being lockt vp with a Bible returne forth as ignorant as he went in this proueth not that the Scripture is obscure but that the man heard it not and to him that heareth not plaine and obscure is all one For the Law of our land is the rule of Societie yet locke vp an vnlettered man and the Law booke for a time together in a study and he wil come forth againe as ignorant in matters of law as he went in if we admit no other meanes but let the booke be opened and the text read and then as f Hom. 3. de Laz. Chrysostome speaketh the most vnlearned man that is shall vnderstand The Carpenters squire is the rule to measure by yet a child can do nothing with it The Sunne is our comfortable light to see by yet we must open our eyes and apply the meanes In all arts as in the Mathematicks Law or Physicke the precepts are the rule whereby the truth of euery question may be tried yet the bookes must be opened and time must be spent in learning them And though the Iesuite do all he can to haue his Church the rule yet he must needs grant the determination thereof is neither knowne nor agreed vpon without much labour and when it speaketh most plainly yet infants deafe men and infidels heare it not Digression 8. Shewing that the Scriptures are not so obscure but that they plainly determine all points of faith 3 And because the Iesuite according to the
common heresie of his Romane church maketh the matter of the Scriptures obscuritie so dangerous I wil demaund of him by the way how our reasons to the contrary may be satisfied For first the Scripture it selfe in euident places calleth vs to it g Ioh. 5.39 Esa 8.20 bidding vs search it and seeke to it and h 2. Pet. 1.19 compareth it to a light shining in a darke place yea i Hebr. 12.5 to the voice of a father speaking to his children and when men vnderstand it not k 2. Cor. 3.15 it saith a vaile is laid ouer their hearts not ouer the scriptures and Christ l Ioh. 10.27 saith his sheepe heare his voice and m Luc. 16.29 the rich glutton was told that his brethren if they would escape damnation should heare Moses and the Prophets which had bin to no purpose if they could not haue vnderstood them when they heard them 4 Secondly he can name no one necessary article of our faith but the word teacheth it as plainly as himselfe can as that there is one God three persons a generall resurrection and iudgement that Iesus is the Sauiour of mankind c. Bellarmine n Illa omnia scripta esse quae sunt omnibus necessaria De verbo Dei l. 4. c. 11. saith All those things are written that are necessary to be knowne of all men o Scripturis nihil notius Ibid. l. 1. c. 2. neither is there any thing better knowne then the Scriptures so saith p Rock pa. 193. Et Contaren de potest Pont. pag. 227. Luce meâ—idiana illustrius ostensum puto ex diuinae sapientiae vocibus Saunders We haue most plaine Scripture in all points for the Catholicke faith And in all controuersies the Papists with whom we deale crie plaine euident manifest Scripture 5 Thirdly all other questions at the last are determined by the Scripture the Fathers expositions are examined by it and q Greg. Val. to 3. disp 1. q. 1. punct 1. the Church receiueth testimony from it so that the finall resolution of all things dependeth vpon it which could not be if of all other things it were not the best knowne for things are not tried by that which is obscurer but by that which is plainer 6 Last of al what meant the Fathers of the Primitiue church so much to report this perspicuitie for r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Protrept pag. 25. Clemens Alexandrinus saith The word is not hid from any it is a common light that shineth to all men there is no obscuritie in it heare it you that be far off and heare it you that be nigh Austin Å¿ En arrat in Psal 8. saith God hath bowed downe the Scriptures euen to the capacitie of babes and sucklings that when proud men will not speake to their capacitie yet himselfe might Chrysostome and his scholler t Lib. 2. ep 5. Isidorus Pelusiota writeth the same u Homil. 1. in Mat. saith The Scriptures are easie to vnderstand and exposed to the capacitie of euery seruant and plow-man and widow and boy and him that is most vnwise x Hom. 3. de Laz. therefore God penned the Scriptures by the hands of Publicans 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 fishermen tent-makers shepheards neat-heards vnlearned men that none of the simple people might haue any excuse to keepe them from reading and that so they might be easie to be vnderstood of all men the artificer the housholder and widow woman and him that is most vnlearned yea the Apostles and Prophets as schoolemasters to all the world made their writings plaine and euident to all men so that euery man of himselfe onely by reading them might learne the things spoken therein Iustine Martyr a Dialog cum Tryphon pag. 213. grae commel saith Heare the words of the Scriptures which be so easie that it needs no exposition but onely to be rehearsed This was the perpetuall and constant iudgement of the auncient Church far from the Iesuites paradoxe that the Scriptures be so obscure and beyond the peoples capacitie that they can reape no instruction by them for the Fathers with one consent teach the contrary and yet you see the confidence of these new Romane diuines It is euident in it selfe b Bristo Mot. 48. saith one of them to any man not quite forsaken of God that the auncient Fathers make most plainly for vs c. The field is wonne c Campian rat 5. apud Posseâ— biblioth select l. 7. c. 21. saith another if once we come to the Fathers they are ours as fully as Pope Gregorie the thirteenth Their prisoners they may be but not their patrons either to erect them Seminaries as d Surius comment rerum in Orb. gest anno 1572. did Gregorie the thirteenth or to maintaine the doctrine which in those seminaries they learne and teach Digression 9. Declaring that the Papists haue reason to hold the Scriptures be obscure and hard because the articles of their religion be hardly or not at all to be found therein 7 And withall the Reader may here very opportunely be put in mind that these men haue good reason to beare the world in hand the Scriptures be very obscure because indeed the Popish religion is obscurely or not at all found therein that not the vnlearned onely but the skilfullest clearkes of their church haue much ado to find some points thereof and some they confesse cannot be found there at all And haue not these men good cause then to challenge it lustily of insufficiencie and obscuritie I haue touched alreadie the confession of Andradius that many points of their faith would reele and stagger if traditions stayed them not And that you may know the meaning of this confession to be not onely that they haue no expresse Scripture for them but also no collection from the Scripture Eckius e Enchirid. c. 4. writeth The Lutherans are dolts which will haue nothing beleeued but that which is expresse Scripture or can be proued out of the Scripture And Costerus the Iesuite f Enchird c. 1. hauing deuided Gods word into three parts that which himselfe writ as the tables of the law that which he commaunded others to write as the old and new Testament and that which he neither writ himselfe nor rehearsed to others but left it to them to do themselues as traditions the decrees of Popes and Councels c. concludeth that many things of faith are wanting in the two former neither would Christ haue his Church depend vpon them this latter saith he is the best Scripture the iudge of controuersies the expositor of the Bible and that whereupon we must wholly depend iust as Staphylus g § 2. nu 6. said before of the Colliars faith 8 Thus they sticke not to name diuers maine articles as for example h Tho. 3. q 25. art 4. Canis catech titul de praecep eccles nu 5. the worship of images
preserue them from error as appeareth in that many thus vsing it do notwithstanding erre Therefore the Scripture alone is not the rule For answer to this argument you must not forget in what sence a § 4 nu 2. I haue shewed the Scriptures alone to be the rule For when we say alone we exclude not the subordinate meanes and dispositions whereby we are enabled to vse them but the authoritie of all other things either to supply their supposed imperfection or to giue the sence and therefore granting the proposition I denie the minor with the confirmation thereof being meerly false For all such as finding the scripture do obey and yeeld assent vnto it are thereby sufficiently preserued from error and instructed in the truth And the reason why some vsing it as the Iesuite and his Church for example do notwithstanding erre is because either they vnderstand it not or will yeeld no assent vnto it For there is no cause so absolute but the effect thereof may from without be hindered when a stoppe commeth betweene See Digression 10. where all this argument is answered 2 So that when men vsing the Scriptures do notwithstanding remaine in error the let is in themselues For though possible they confesse them to be Gods word yet all obedience to them consisteth not in that but it is further required that the blindnes of their heart be done away and that curiosity preiudice other impedimēts be remoued as we may see by this that there is nothing more clearly defined by the Church thē that there is but one God and three persons which made all things that Christ is the sonne of God borne of the virgin Marie yet these th ngs we see are in controuersie among them that vse the Scriptures So then it must not be granted the Iesuite that euerie one or any that grosly erreth in matters of faith yeeldeth obedience to the Scripture in all that it teacheth for if they did so they could not erre Digression 14. Containing a Discourse of Saint Austin about mens errors against the Scripture 3 This point is well spoken to by Austin You see b Contra Faust manich lib. 12. cap. 19. 6. tom saith he to the Manichees this is your endeuour to take away from among vs the authoritie of the Scriptures and that euery ones mind might be his author what to allow what to disallow in euery text and so he is not for his faith made subiect to the Scripture but maketh the Scriptures subiect to himselfe and that which he holdeth doth not therefore please him because it is found written in so high authoritie but therefore he thinketh it written truely because it pleaseth him Whither now doest thou venter thy self miserable soule weak and wrapt in carnall mists whither dost thou venter thy selfe Here Austin sheweth a reason why many hauing the Scriptures are not yet instructed thereby but doth he therefore conclude they cannot be the rule and thereupon send them after the Iesuite to borrow his rule inquire if he do for thus he proceedeth a little after Why doest thou not rather submit thy selfe to the Euangelicall authoritie so stedfast so stable so renowned and by certaine succession commended from the Apostles to our times that thou maist beleeue that thou maist behold that thou maist learn all those things which hinder thee from doing it through thine owne vaine and peruerse opinion Here Austin thinketh mens errors remaine by reason of their owne frowardnesse and not through any obscuritie in the Scripture Concerning which he writeth thus c De doctrin Christ lib. 1. c. 6 in another place that some things being darkly spoken a thicke mist being about vs deceiue those that rashly reading take one thing for another all which I doubt not was prouided by God to tame our pride with labor and to reuoke our vnderstanding from loathing Therefore hath the holy Ghost tempered the Scriptures thus loftily and wholesomely that by plainer places he might satisfie our hunger and by obscurer put away our fulnesse For nothing in a manner is pickt foorth of those obscurities which may not be found most plainely spoken elsewhere § 11. Neither do I see what you can obiect against this conclusion but that place of S. Paul 2. Tim. 3. Omnis Scriptura diuinitus inspirata vtilis est ad docendum vt perfectus sit homo c. But this place proueth nothing against that which I haue said * In Scripturis sacris tanta est disciplina quāta sat est cuique crudiendo Euang Bosius Theorem 10. apud Posseu bibl select lib. 2. cap. 15. For it saith not the Scripture alone is sufficient to instruct a man to perfection but that it is profitable for this purpose as it is indeed and the rather because it commendeth to vs the authoritie of the Church which as I shall shew after is sufficient to instruct vs in all points of faith The Answer 1 Whatsoeuer may be said against the Iesuites conclusion ouer and besides yet this place is one of those texts which we obiect against it And thus we reason That which by Diuine inspiration 1. is able to make a man wise to saluation 2. through the faith of Christ 3. which is profitable to instruct in righteousnesse 4. to teach to reproue to correct 5. that he may be absolute and perfect to euery good worke that alone is sufficient and containeth all things needfull to be knowne But such is the Scripture that it is able to make a man wise c. Therefore it alone is sufficient Euery word in the text is an argument But the Iesuite answereth two things 2 First that the Apostle saith not the Scripture alone is sufficient to instruct vs to perfection but profitable Whereto I replie that the Apostle saith not simply they are profitable but they are profitable to teach to reproue to correct and to instruct in all righteousnesse that the man of God may be absolute being made perfect to all good works whence I draw two arguments to shew it to be sufficient alone First because a man by vsing it may be made perfect to euery good worke now that is sufficient that can make me perfect and absolute to euery worke Secondly because the duties whereunto the Scripture is profitable containe a sufficient doctrine of saluation We do not say the Scripture is profitable therfore sufficient but it is profitable to euery thing therefore sufficient Thus I reason They teach they reproue they instruct they correct a Ex his autem contingit alicui vt integer sit Occumen But this is sufficient and containeth all things all that we need to saluation is either to be taught or reproued or instructed or corrected Ergo. Againe That is sufficient which maketh him absolute and perfect to euery good worke But such are the Scriptures Therefore they are sufficient Moreouer that must needs be granted sufficient which can make a man wise to saluatiō and
this consent a man may infallibly know or else in vaine had g Act. 17.11 the Beraeans searched the Scriptures to see whether those things were so as Paul and Silas preached and in vaine did h Isa 8.20 the Prophet send the people to the law and to the testimonie if thereby one could not be secured But many perswade themselues they are taught by the spirit and yet are deceiued and this may be such a perswasion I answer i Greg. de Valē tom 3. disput theol disp 1. q. 1. punct 1. Stapl. princip doctr l. 8. c. 22. Triplic in admonit ad Whitak the Papists cannot denie but there is a heauenly light which assureth the children of God of it selfe and Saint Luke k Luc. 1.4 saith the writing of his Gospell was able to giue the certaintie of those things whereof Theophilus was instructed and l Col. 2.2 Saint Paul was exceeding carefull that the Laodiceans might haue the full assurance of vnderstanding to know the mysterie of God Now will the Iesuite denie all this assurance and call it but a perswasion which is concluded from the testimonie of the word Will he reiect the light of the Scripture and witnesse of the holy Ghost which worketh all things in all men m 1. Ioh. 5.10 Ioh. 7.17 that they may see it n 2. Cor. 4.4 whose eyes the God of this world hath not blinded But some are deceiued True o 2. Thess 2.11 such as haue strong delusions to beleeue lies p 2. Cor. 3.14 or a veile ouer their heart in reading but how followeth this some are deceiued therefore all But who without testimonie of miracle or some other infallible proofe dare arrogantly affirme that he onely is not deceiued I answer the triall maybe made without miracles which q His booke against the transt of the Scripture cap. 3. D. Standish a Papist saith were giuen but for a time as Austine in his dayes did witnesse saying he that would looke for a miracle then was a miracle to the world himselfe But without some other infallible proofe it cannot which proofe is the Scripture it selfe more infallible then either r Luc. 16.31 miracles or ſ 2. Pet. 1.19 visions and to rely vpon it is no arrogancie but obedience which some men doing against the Romish heresies not they onely saw the truth but more saw it with them whom t 1. Reg. 29.18 God reserued to himselfe in all countries though the Iesuite and his partakers were none of them 5 His third argument followeth No man teaching against the Catholick Church can assure others that he is taught of God vnles he haue the testimonie of miracles therefore no priuate man can be this infallible rule of faith I answer granting the conclusion that no priuate man is the rule of faith yet a priuate man as I haue distinguished teaching against the Romish church falsly termed Catholick may giue infallible assurance of his teaching without miracle as I haue said already here wil declare further by answering the Iesuits confused discourse more particularly 6 First he saith It is not Gods manner to teach men immediatly by himself but by meanes of his Church and Pastors Whereto I answer that neither do we say these priuate men of whom the question is were taught immediatly by inspiration but had their knowledge by meanes of the scripture truly taught in the Church according to the manner touched in u Rom. 10.17 Mal. 2.7 Eph. 4 12. the three texts alledged onely we say the Papacie was not this Church nor the Priests thereof those pastors and doctors whom God had put in his Church that from their lips the faith might be required but they were degenerate into rauening wolues and Antichristian heretickes and such these priuate men both Pastors and people proued them to be by the Scriptures as when the Pharises x Math 5.20 15.3 16.6 12. 23.13 had generally corrupted the law y Marc. 14.64 Ioh. 7.48 8.13 9.22 42. denying Iesus to be Christ z Ioh. 5.39 he reproued them by the Scriptures But suppose one thinke himselfe to be immediatly taught of God how should he giue assurance to others that he is so taught vnlesse he had miracles I answer assurance of immediate teaching he can giue none neither is it needfull for I know no particular man or Church of the Protestants that pretendeth immediate teaching but we all confesse and proue the Scriptures and Pastors of Christs true Church haue taught vs and hereof we dayly giue assurance to those that haue hearts to beleeue But how can priuate men be assured without miracles This is answered alreadie a Hom. 3. de Laz. Chrysostome saith God hath left vs the Scriptures more firme then any miracle And to them Austine reuoketh vs from miracles b De Vnit. eccl c. 16 Say not these things are so because such a one did such and such maruels but let them proue their Church by the canonicall bookes of the Scripture and by nothing else these are the demonstration of our cause these are our foundation these are our grounds whereupon we build But no man can giue assurance he teacheth true that teacheth men to forsake the Catholicke Church that is taught of God I answer the Iesuite saith true in this and c Mat. 28.20 Ioh 14.16 16.13 the texts alledged proue well that Christ abideth with this Catholicke Church for euer But he should haue remembred that these priuate men taught vs to forsake nothing but the Papacie prouing the same to be the kingdome of Antichrist And as for the Catholicke Church it consisteth in these men alone whom the Iesuite calleth priuate though he and his fellowes very foolishly haue arrogated the name to themselues For they are Catholickes which be of sound faith and good life saith d Qu. in Mat◠c. 11. Austine not they e Apoc. 2.2 which say they are Apostles and are not but are found liers or f vers 9. calling themselues Iewes are the synagogue of Satan 7 Therefore also the Iesuite may preach his text of vae prophetis Ezech. 13.3 to his Cleargie at home g Dist 40. Si Papa who are bound to the Popes spirit though he leade them to hell For to follow the Scripture and Gods spirit speaking publickly in the same is not to follow a mans owne spirit which the Prophet condemneth And whereas he concludeth that it is not sufficient to alledge words of Scripture because euery sectmaster yea the diuell alledgeth Scripture for his opinion I answer that neither do we thinke it enough to alledge words of Scripture but the Scripture truly applied which neither the diuell nor sectaries nor Papists can do But what a loose kind of reasoning is this the diuell alledgeth Scripture therefore the Scripture is no sufficient warrant For did not our Sauiour confute the diuell by only Scripture rightly vnderstood
all things is infallible which if it were granted yet were it too short to proue that therefore this Church were the rule of faith For euery infallible thing whose teaching is most true is not yet in the ordinance of God set apart to instruct vs. As the Angels of heauen for example are not the rule of our faith though a Fr. Suarez in Tho. to 1. disp 42. sect 1. they haue all the graces and glorie that a creature can haue and consequently the grace of infallibilitie Let this be noted in the first place 2 But yet the doctrine and teaching of the Church is not in all points infallible and most true neither meaning this doctrine not of the Scriptures but of the Churches ministery in propounding and following the same for in her ministery and manners she may and doth erre as shall appeare in my answer to the Iesuites reasons throughout this section But first the question must be made plaine For to say as he doth here and euery where in this question that the teaching of the vniuersall Catholick Church is infallible not subiect to error is an improper speech not incideÌ„t to the question because that Church comprehendeth all the triumphant Church in heauen which neither can be vsed neither do we charge it with error but confesse it to be b Ephes 5.27 glorious not hauing spot or wrinkle or any such thing All the question is of that part of the Catholick Church which dwelleth here on earth professing the name of Christ and liuing in warfare against the world and Satan called the Church militant Which so distinguished we hold to be subiect to error both in manners and doctrine And the Iesuite of necessitie by the vniuersall Church must vnderstand onely this part thereof because this part onely is apt to teach vs and hath ministerie in her hands or else he disputeth confusedly not distinguishing the termes of the question 3 This being noted now I come to the discourse which may all be concluded in this syllogisme that we may the better iudge of it That 1. vnto which Christ hath promised his owne presence and the presence of his spirit for euer to the worlds end 2. which hath commission from God to teach all nations 3. which all men are commaunded to heare in all things 4. they that heare it are warranted as if they heard Christ himselfe 5. they that heare it not are threatned as if they despised Christ himselfe that is free from error and the doctrine thereof in all things is infallible But such is the Church that concerning it Christ hath 1. promised 2. giuen commission 3. commanded 4. warranted and 5. threatned as is aforesaid Therefore the Church is free from error and the doctrine thereof in all things is infallible This is the summe of all this section whereto I answer by denying both propositions and the reason is for that they consist of Scripture falsly expounded and applyed and this my answer I set downe more particularly in that which followeth wherein I will examine euery text as it is alledged and make it plain that neuer a one of them proueth the conclusion 4 The first place is Mat. 28.20 Lo I am with you alway to the worlds end But I answer 1. this was a personall promise made onely to the Apostles and so cannot be extended to all the Church if we will speake of the words properly according to their immediate sence 2. To whomsoeuer it belongeth the meaning is c Iansen concord Eâ—ang cap. 149. that howsoeuer his bodily presence ceassed yet his prouidence should neuer faile to preserue comfort them in all their troubles and helpe them in all their actions and by degrees so enlighten them also that they should not perish in their ignorance but be led forward to more perfection This must needes be granted to be all that is meant First because Christ is not absent from his people euery time they fall into an error but remaineth with them still for all that either forgiuing it or reforming it Secondly this promise notwithstanding yet afterward d Gal 2.11 vide August de Baptism cont Donat. l. 2. c. 1. de agon Christian c. 30. Thom. in ep ad Gal. c. 3. lect 3. Peter one to whom the promise was made erred against the truth of the Gospell and was therefore by Paul rebuked and resisted to his face which thing could not haue fallen out if this promise had exempted the Church from all error Thirdly if it priuiledge the whole Church from error because it is made to it then consequently it priuiledgeth the particular Churches Pastors and beleeuers therein because it is made to them likewise but experience sheweth these latter may erre and therefore the meaning must needs be as I haue said Fourthly e See §. it is a ruled case among the Papists that the Pope may erre which could not be if these words of Christ meant the Church of Rome and that infallible iudgment which the Iesuite talketh of As for his glosse vpon the words that Christ in them should promise his continuall presence not for a while then nor for a while now but for euer it is altogether either idle and inept For he can name no Protestant that euer thought Christ was at any time absent but we all constantly beleeue he alway was is and shall be with his Church to the end 5 The second and third places are much like the first Iohn 14.16 I will pray the Father saith Christ and he shall giue you another comforter that he may abide with you for euer And Iohn 16.13 When he is come which is the Spirit of truth he will leade you into all truth But I answer two things First these words are properly extended to the Apostles promising f Act. 2.4 that which was performed immediatly after Christs ascention and ought not to be stretched any further Which being so they conclude somewhat for them but little for the Church because euerie grace belongeth not to the Church in all ages that was giuen the Apostles Secondly applying them to the Church also the meaning is that the holy Ghost should neuer forsake it but perseuere in teaching it all truh which is simply necessary to saue it according as the Church is able to learne it which he doth by meanes of the Scripture though not at all times alike perfectly but so as he endueth it with all holines and yet many sins are found in it This interpretation must needs be allowed for three causes first the Apostle saith of himselfe and the Church g 1. Cor. 13.9 Now we know but in part and prophesie in part Which were not true if these words of Christ had secured the Church in all things and in euery truth for the part cometh short of the whole Secondly this promise belongeth as well to one Apostle as another yea h 1. Ioh 2.20 to all the faithfull as wel as to the
ministerie thereof may be a condition subordinate for the obtaining of that which is the rule As a Ioh. 4.29.39 the woman of Samaria was a good meanes to bring her countrimen to Christ that knew him not and yet their beleefe was not built on her b ver 42. but on that which she reuealed to them And c Ier. 6.16 God biddeth vs by his Prophet Stand by the wayes and behold and aske for the old way which is the good way though in the meane time the persons to be asked are our direction no further then while they point to the old way And the Prophet biddeth d Hag. 2.12 Aske the Priests concerning the law and saith e Mal. 2.7 The Priests lips should preserue knowledge and they should seeke the law at his mouth for he is the Angell of the Lord of hoasts yet these Priests many times spake vntruly being deceiued themselues and deceiuing others And so may it happen to the Pastors of the Church 2 All which notwithstanding the Church abideth still the same that Saint Paul calleth it the pillar and ground of truth in that the truth is no where else to be found Which that I may shew the beter it is to be noted that f Iul. Pol. Onomast lib. 8. pag. 454. Scol Aristoph Nub. Rosin antiq Rom. l. 8 c. 2. Alex. ab Alexand. genial dierum l. 6. c. 23. in old time the Gentiles vsed to write their lawes in tables and so hang them vp on pillars of stone that the people might reade them as Proclamations are nailed to posts in market townes and somtime g Phauorin Hesych Lexic verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 they whited the pillar and so wrote the lawes vpon it h Lexic decem Rhet. Harpocration saith they reared vp straight pillars of stone and so wrote their lawes vpon them And it was also an ordinary thing that they had other pillars like the Pasquill in Rome i Eustach Il. λ. Suid. verbo 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 whereupon whosoeuer listed hung their Epigrams or libels that they would haue knowne Now the Apostle describing the Church likeneth it to one of these pillars whose vse was no more but to shew that which hung thereon it selfe not being the law but that whereupon the law was hung For so the true faith written in the tables of the Scripture whereunto the world will giue no testimonie is fastened to the Church as to a stately pillar and strong supporter that there it may be seene and holden out vnto vs. Hence the Iesuite can challenge no more but that the Church is vnto vs a witnesse and vpholder of the faith and alway preserueth it which we denie not but in the meane time he forgetteth that it is one thing to hold out the rule and another to be the rule it selfe and he that saith the Church is the supporter of truth doth not say withall that the Pastors can neuer erre or faile in deliuering any part thereof The Apostle saith the former but the Iesuite onely beside the text affirmeth the latter 3 This exposition must needs be granted for foure reasons first it is called the pillar of truth in no other sence then k Eph. 5.27 elsewhere it is called glorious without spot or blemish or blame but it is certaine that the puritie there mentioned is mingled with some imperfection therefore it is also certain this vpholding of the truth is not free froÌ„ all error Secondly Paul in this place sendeth not Timothy to learne of the Church which he should do if the Iesuits conceit were sound but l vers 14.15 wisheth him to teach the Church out of the Scriptures that so it might be the pillar of truth Thirdly that which the Apostle saith in these words is true of euery particular Church but of euery particular church it is not true that it caÌ„not erre for we see they may as did m Act. 20.30 Apoc. 2.4 this of Ephesus concerning which the Apostle saith here it is the pillar and ground of truth Fourthly if this place proue that the Church cannot erre in any thing but of it all men must learne the infallible truth then seeing o Bellar. de verbo Dei l. 3. c. 5. Greg. de ValeÌ„t coÌ„ment Theo. tom 3. disp 1. q. 1. assert 3. the Papists hold their Prelates and Pastors to be the Church I demand what is that which must teach them for the Church doth not seeing they are the Church themselues 4 Or if the Iesuite dote vpon his owne exposition then let him cal to mind how other Papists haue expounded before him p Staphyl Apol. part 1. Sâ—apl his translat pag 50. who say The Apostle calleth the Church the pillar and ground of truth signifying by the word ground the largenesse of Christendome by the word pillar the continuall smooth and not interrupted succession of the Apostles and their schollers vpon whoÌ„ all truth is builded Which exposition differing from this of the Iesuites may giue him occasion to looke better into the text and at least mistrust his collections therfrom till he haue conferred with his fellowes For vpon the reckoning it will fall out that vntill the Friers and Iesuites of late began to hammer the Scriptures there was neuer any that out of them would deliuer his conclusion but the contrary The Apostles writings are the pillars and supporters of our faith saith q Lib. 3. c. 1. Irenaeus The Gospell is the gound and stay of the Church saith r Lib. 3 c. 11. the same Irenaeus The truth is the pillar and ground of the Church saith Å¿ Hom. in hunc loc Chrysostome The diuine Scriptures must teach who hath the true Church These are the proofes these are the foundations these are the grounds of our cause saith t De vnit Eccl. cap. 16. Austin 5 The words of Austin alledged by the Iesuite are good but they had bene better if he had not left out the beginning for thus they lie u Contra. Crescon gram lib. 1. cap. 33. For somuch as the holy Scripture cannot deceiue vs let him who feareth lest the obscuritie of this question concerning the baptisme of the Donatists should deceiue him enquire that Churches iudgment of it which the holy Scripture without all doubtfulnes doth demoÌ„strate Wherin Aust saith not the church is the rule or the Church cannot erre but onely as the Iesuite himselfe noteth that the iudgement therof should be inquired His meaning is that in the question of rebaptizing because in Cresconius his suppositioÌ„ the Scripture said nothing of it such as were doubtful might ask the iudgmeÌ„t of the true Church there they should learn Cresconius to be in an error Wherein the Iesuit shal find vs to consent with Austin for doth he think we allow not the Church her ministery or that we silence her from bearing witnesse to the truth or that we turne away the people
say that sometime it could neither it selfe be knowne nor be a meanes by which the true faith might be made knowne then since as I proued it is a necessarie meanes and so necessarie that without it according to the ordinarie course there is not sufficient meanes to instruct all men infallibly in al points of faith then I say men that liued at that time wanted necessarie meanes whereby they might attaine to the knowledge of true faith and consequently whereby they might come to saluation Which if it were so how is it vniuersally true that Deus vult omnes homines saluos fieri ad agnitionem veritatis venire 1. Tim. 2. God would haue all men saued and to come to the knowledge of true faith and thereby by degrees to saluation For without these meanes prouided he knoweth it impossible for them to attaine to saluation and knowing it impossible he cannot be said to will it since no wise man willeth that which he knoweth impossible and much lesse almightie God whose wisedome is infinite whose will is alway ioyfully ioyned with some worke or effect by which that which he willeth at least is made possible to be done The Answer 1 Here the Iesuit hath laid downe two arguments to proue the Church to be alwayes visible the first is because our Sauiour ordained it to be the light of the world and nothing can be such a light which it selfe is inuisible Thus it must be concluded That which Christ ordained to be the light of the world is alway visible But Christ ordained the Church to be the light of the world Math. 5.14 Ergo the Church is alway visible In which argument neither of the parts are true For first it is not true that euery light is alway visible so that granting the Church to be the light of the world which it is yet is it not proued thereby to be alway visible for two causes First because a Gen. 1.16 Psal 136.8 the Sunne and Moone were ordained to be great lights for the gouerning of day and night and yet we see them darkened and suffer strange eclipses So the Church though it be ordained to enlighten the world by ministring the doctrine of the Scriptures sometime may faile out of mens sight as b 1. Reg. 19.10 in the dayes of Elias Therefore c Apo. 12.1.5.6 it is compared to a woman which one while is as visible as any thing can be clothed with the Sunne the Moone vnder her feete and vpon her head a crowne of twelue starres and yet at another time she is driuen into the wildernesse out of the sight of men yea taken vp as it were into heauen there to abide 1260. dayes And concerning the Pastors d Micah 3.6 the Prophet threatneth that Night shall be to the people for a vision and darknesse for a diuination the Sunne shall go downe vpon the Prophets and the day shall be darke ouer them Secondly though it be a light yet such as walk in darknes and loue it better then the light because their deeds are euill and know not the seruants of the light do not alwayes see it but want either will or eyes thereto as e 2. Reg. 6 16. the king of Arams souldiers saw not the mountaine full of horses and chariots of fire that were round about Elisha nor knew that they were in the middest of Samaria till their eyes were opened or possible with the mist of their owne errors or smoke of persecution they may obscure it according to that of the Reuelation f Apoc. 9.1 where it is shewed that a starre falling from heauen the bottomlesse pit was opened and there arose out of it a smoke wherewith the Sunne and the aire was darkened So Saint Austine g Ep. 80. ad Hesych prope fin epist 48. ad Vincent speaketh When the Sunne shall he darkened and the Moone shal not giue her light and the starres shall fall from heauen then the Church shall not appeare by reason vngodly persecutors shall rage out of measure 2 So then where the Church is called a light the meaning is not that it is alway visible or that the externall appearance thereof is plaine to euery eye and at all times for thus the Papists grant their owne Church is not visible but that as the Sunne so it hath in it selfe all light of truth and glorie whereby the children of God are enlightned and the darke wayes of the vngodly detected and except heresies or persecutions come betweene this inward light doth also shew it selfe forth to the world by outward profession and gouernment so as no temporall state is more glorious or conspicuous Which difference betweene the inward and outward light being rightly expounded and obserued the Iesuite may find how it may be the light of the world though sometime by eclipse it become inuisible for at all times and to all men and of it owne nature it is not so 3 Next the other proposition faileth likewise for though the light of the Church be graunted yet it is not true that Christ our Sauiour ordained it to be alwayes the light of the world according to these words Math. 5. Vos estis lux mundi You are the light of the world for those words were spoken by Christ to his disciples and his purpose therein was not to teach what the state of the Church should alway be but to prouoke them to constancie and holinesse forsomuch as they should be in euery mans eye and therefore if they chanced to do otherwise then well it could be concealed no more then the light of the Sunne Now this is nothing to the Churches visiblenesse For the Apostles being set ouer all the world to enlighten it with their teaching as it were Sunne might be in the view thereof and yet the Church afterward with the Pastors therein be suppressed from the sight of her enemies This therefore is a common error of the Papists that whatsoeuer things in the Scriptures are personally affirmed of some particular times and persons they will stretch generally to all 4 His second argument to proue the Church alway visible is because Christ ordained it to be a rule or meanes by which men may come to knowledge of the faith wherein he beggeth the question or as h Rat. 9. Campian the Iesuite telleth vs i Eccum quos gyros quas rotas fabricat Turneth the wheele For being to proue that the Church is the rule of faith k § 16. he said he would do it by shewing the teaching thereof to be infallibly easie and vniuersall and this he would do by prouing it to be alway visible and now he saith it is visible because it is the rule or meanes whereby to finde the truth which is the question and would not haue bin assumed but proued Neuerthelesse his reason shal be examined and considered of for thus it standeth That which Christ appointed to be the rule
doth it is no good marke they say the contrary it is a marke indeed a chiefe marke a proper and very cleare note of the Church a note ingrauen and perpetually cleauing to it Let him therefore be well aduised how he crosse his fellowes lest his so doing impaire the credit of his Churches vnitie and make his reader suspect that he is labouring to confute a matter which his owne conscience telleth him is most true 3 For our Sauiour saith in the g Ioh. 10.27 Gospel My sheepe heare my voyce Which teacheth vs euen by h Bellarm. de not Eccl. c. 2. the confession of our aduersaries that wheresoeuer the voyce of Christ which is the true faith soundeth there consequently are the elect his sheepe that heare it And if his sheepe be knowne to be there by this then is the Church also knowne hereby for wheresoeuer the sheep of Christ liue there is the Church in as much as these two are neuer diuided The true faith and doctrine of the Scriptures then being notes to teach vs where the elect be are proued hereby to be a sufficient marke of the Church because wheresoeuer the elect liue there is the Church of God Again Christ i mat 18.20 saith Where two or three are gathered together in my name there am I in the midst of them This teacheth vs two things by k Bellarm. de notis Eccl. c. 2. the Papists owne confession First that the true faith is a signe where Christ is which is all one as if they had said it is a signe where Christs church is for Christ his church are neuer asunder but l Mat. 28.20 he abideth with it for euer Next that it is a note of the Church if such teach it as are gathered together by lawfull ordination and successiō which is as much as we desire for it is neuer taught by any other and it quite ouerthroweth the Iesuites conceit for he thinketh his Romane Church-men to haue lawful ordination and succession and yet denyeth the faith they preach to be a marke of the Church wherin he cannot reconcile himselfe with his fellowes The same is further confirmed by diuers other places of m Deut 4.6 Psal 147.19 Esa 2.2.3 Act. 2.42 Ioh. 8.31 Rom. 10.14 2. pet 1.19 Scripture whither I referre the reader 4 And surely plaine reason sheweth it For it must needs be granted to be an vndoubted note of the Church which maketh vs know it when we seeke it and distinguisheth it from the false Churches of the heretickes Now this the true faith which is according to the Scriptures doth in that euery church pretending it selfe to be the Church of Christ is examined thereby and that allowed to be the true Church indeed which agreeth therewith according to that of Saint Paul n Gal. 6.26 As many as walke according to this rule peace shall be vpon them and mercie and vpon the Israel of God And our Sauiour in the Gospell o Mat. 7 16. saith Ye shal know the false Prophets by their fruits p Iansen harm cap. 43. Rhem. annot in cū loc Stapl. princip doctr l. 10. c. 1. that is by their doctrine So that if the men which professe themselues to be the Church are first to be tried by the Scriptures it followeth necessarily that the doctrine contained in the Scriptures is the note of the Church In which regard the Apostle q Ephes 2.19 saith of the Church that it is the houshold of God built vpon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets And Epiphanius speaking of an hereticke r 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Tom. 1 l. 2. haer 4◠saith This man is found altogether differing from the holy Scriptures as it will appeare to all them that reade attentiuely if then he be dissenting from them he is altogether an alien from the holy Catholicke Church And me thinkes if we said no more to this point the very confession of our aduersaries might put it out of doubt who say expresly ſ Reynol Caluinoturc l. 4. c. 9 pag. 859. These two the true Church and the true faith are so knit and infolded together that the one inferreth and concludeth the other frō the true Church is concluded the true faith and from the true faith the true Church is inferred And t Bellar. de not eccl c. 2. when the question is concerning the Church then the Scripture is better knowne then the Church Now betweene vs and the Papists the question is concerning the Church and therefore the Scriptures are the best marke to know it by Moreouer the doctrine of the Scripture declareth what be the notes of the Church as the Iesuite himselfe speaketh and all Papists are constrained by the Scriptures to proue those marks which they assigne and who then seeth not that the doctrine it selfe must needs be the best note of al when it is first and best knowne This is his owne reason who in his discourse following hereby would proue the Church to be better knowne then the doctrine because it sheweth the doctrine and bringeth it to our view Againe u Canis catec magn pag. 131. Reynol Caluinoturc pa. 860. Staplet princip doctrin l. 4. prooem the learned among them maintaine sundry of their notes of the Church to be true notes because as they say the Church is defined by them and why then shall true doctrine and faith be debarred which are the efficient cause very difference of the Church wherein it differeth principally from all false assemblies and therfore to be put in the definition thereof Finally x 2. Pet. 1.19 Apoc. 2.5 the Scripture calleth it self and the faith thereof a light shining in the Church as in a candlestick or lanterne which proueth it sufficient to shew vs where the Church is as a light in a dark night directs the sayler to his hauen And whereas the Iesuits marks vnitie antiquitie and vniuersalitie agree to other assemblies as well as to the Church of God and by y Bellar. de not eccl c. 3. their owne confession are no proofes of euident truth this of the True faith can be found in none but the Church of Christ whereunto it is proper euery way euen to all the Church at all times and to it alone and so cannot deceiue such as follow it 5 In the last place I desire the Reader to marke the iudgement of two ancient fathers Chrysostome and Augustine and to compare the same with the Iesuites conclusion and then freely to say whether the Church of Rome haue all antiquitie on her side or not In this time z Op. imperf hom 49. saith Chrysostome since heresie hath taken hold of the Church there can be no triall of true Christianitie nor any other refuge for Christians desirous to know the true faith but the holy Scriptures formerly it might many wayes be shewed which was the Church of Christ and which Gentilisme but now they that will
be as ready to obey is one thing but neither to be willing to learne nor when you heare the truth to be satisfied therewith is another The first of these may befall the particular Church c. § 26. Because a marke whereby a thing may and must be knowne must be more apparent and easie to be knowne to all those men which should by that marke seeke out and find that thing then the thing it selfe otherwise there should come no helpe by the marke to the knowledge of the thing But to know which is the true faith in all points at least to some sorts of men to wit the vnlearned is more hard then to know and assigne which companie of men be the true Church For to know which is the true faith in all particular points requireth learning whereby one may vnderstand the termes and state of the question besides iudgement to discusse and weigh prudently the sufficiencie of the authorities and reasons oâ— both parts that vpon this pondering of reasons they may prudently conclude which is the better part Moreouer they must haue a supernaturall light of God his Spirit whereby they may discerne and see those things which be aboue all naturall rules and reasons Ad haec quis idoneus Who can say that he is sufficiently furnished with these helpes or who can be infallibly sure that he hath all these in such sort as is requisite for obtaining by his owne industrie an infallible faith in al points And as for the vnlearned they must needes confesse that in diuerse mysteries of faith they do not so much as vnderstand the termes and state of the question and much lesse are they able sufficiently to examine the worth of euery reason neither are all such as can perswade themselues that they are singularly illuminated immediatly taught of God his Spirit neither if they did thus perswade themselues could they be infallibly sure that in this their perswasion they were not deceiued since it is certaine that some that most strongly in their owne conceit perswade themselues to be thus enlightened are in this their perswasion deceiued Now for to know which is the true Church and by giuing credite to it consequently which is the true faith there are not so many things required nor anie great difficultie as shall be declared For this is the direct way which Esay as did foretell cap. 35. should be in the time of Messias which he said should be so direct that euen fooles to wit simple and vnlearned men should not erre in it Haec erit vobis directa via saith he ita vt stulti non errent per eam The Answer 1 This is his first argument the summe whereof is concluded in this Syllogisme That which is the marke whereby to know a thing must be more apparent and easier to be knowne then the thing it selfe otherwise it helpeth vs not in finding out the thing But the true faith is not more apparent or easier to be knowne then the Church but contrary the Church is easier to be knowne then the true faith for to know the true faith there is required learning iudgement and supernaturall illumination which no man sufficiently hath but to know which is the true Church these things are not required for the Church is the direct way Esa 35.8 Therefore the true faith is not the marke of the Church To this I answer denying the second proposition and the confirmation thereof that it is harder to know which is the true faith then to assigne which company of men be the Church For faith is the cause of the Church that is to say this is the thing that maketh a people to be the Church of God when they beleeue the word of God and euery cause as it goeth before his effect so is it more apparent to our vnderstanding and better knowne to our iudgement then the effect Aristotle saith a Analy Poste cap. 2. Causes are both before their effects and better knowne and b Ibid. Metaph l. 1. c. 2. l. 2. c. 2. Plato in Thraet the true knowledge of things ariseth from the knowledge of their causes yea those things are simply first and best knowne which are furthest from our sence and nearest our vnderstanding and so the doctrine and beliefe of the Church must needes be easier to know then the Church it selfe because it cometh first to my vnderstanding and of necessitie I must see it afore I can tell whether the Church be there or not For though that company which is offered to me as the Church be more apparent to my sence yet haue I no certaintie that it is the Church or a companie so qualified vntil I know the faith thereof to be true I see indeed a company of men and heare much of their greatnesse but I am not sure they are the Church vnlesse I know they hold the true faith and so the knowledge of this leadeth me to the knowledge of that and the faith is easilier discerned then the Church 2 The Papists themselues haue a saying which if this Iesuite would receiue might determine this matter We see indeed that companie of men which is the Church c Lib. 3. de eccl c. 15. saith Bellarmine but we do not see that this companie is the true Church of Christ we beleeue it For that is the true Church which prâ—fesseth the faith of Christ but who doth euidently know this faith to be the faith of Christ we rather beleeue this by a firme and most assured faith In which words this Iesuites assumption is thus disproued That whereupon I beleeue the Church so to be is more apparent and easier to be knowne sooner to be seene then the church it selfe But vpon knowledge of the Churches faith I beleeue it to be the Church therefore the Churches faith is more apparent and sooner knowne then the Church it selfe Againe By faith we beleeue this to be the true Church and the profession thereof to be the truth but d Rom. 10.17 all faith cometh by hearing the word of God therefore by the meanes of hearing Gods word I beleeue this to be the true Church and so consequently the knowledge of Gods word cometh sooner and easilier to my vnderstanding then the knowledge of the Church 3 And though it were granted that in some cases the Church were easier to know then the faith yet as things depend betweene the Papists and vs the faith is easier to know then the Church for the question betweene them and vs is who hath the true Church In which triall it is the greatest folly in the world for either of vs to offer our selues to the world as the true Churches of Christ till first we haue proued our selues so to be by the doctrine that we professe and in vaine shall we attempt this if as the case standeth this doctrine be not easier and plainer then the Church This is the confession of the Iesuites
5 when he said I would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Church did moue me For though the testimonie of the Church by reason of mens infirmitie afore they beleeue be requisite to draw them on to consent to the Scriptures as children afore they can go hold themselues by the side of a stoole and so learne to go yet is not the credite of the Church or authority of men the thing whereby we know and distinguish the Scripture from other writings but the authoritie of Gods spirit is it that by the help of the Church worketh faith in vs. Digression 19. Touching the place of S. August cont epist. fundam cap. 5. and the matter which the Papists gather from it 4 The Papists haue a principle among them that the Scriptures receiue all their authoritie from the Church meaning thereby g Rhem. Gal. 6.2 that they are not knowne to be true neither are Christians bound to receiue them without the attestation of the Church h Ioan. de Turrecr suê‘ dist 9. Noli meis nu 4. Which testimonie declareth vnto vs which be the Scriptures and which not i Baron annal tom 1. an 53. nu 11. so that by the tradition of the Church all the Gospel receiueth his authority and is built therupon as vpon a foundatioÌ„ and cannot subsist without it Yea k Bosius de sign eccl tom 2 pag. 439. some of them write that the Scripture is not to be reckoned among such * Principia principles as before all things are to be credited but it is proued confirmed by the church * Quasi per quoddam principium as by a certain principle which hath autority to reiect allow Scripture And l D. Standish Treat of the Script c. 6. probat 3. a countriman of ours hath left written that in three points the authoritie of the Church is aboue the authoritie of the Scripture The second is for that the Church receiued the Gospel of Luke and Marke and did reiect the Gospels made by his high Apostles Thomas and Bartlemew The which speeches of theirs when the Papists haue expounded how they can yet this will be the vpshot that in all discourses concerning religion the last resolution of our faith shall be into the Churches authoritie 5 For confirmation whereof they bring you see this of Austine I would not haue beleeued the Gospel vnlesse the Churches authority moued me In which words he speaketh of the time past afore he was conuerted and according to the phrase of his countrey putteth the preterimperfect tense for the preterpluperfect tense meaning thus I had not now beleeued the Gospell and bene a Christian but that the Church by her reasons perswaded me thereunto speaking onely of the practise of Christians who by their perswasions conuert many to the Gospell And that he speaketh of the time pâ—st when he was an vnbeleeuer it is plain not onely by viewing the place but by the testimonie of a learned Papist m Can loc l. 2. c. 8. pag. 34. who saith Austine had to do with a Manichee who would haue a certaine Gospell of his owne without controuersie admitted therefore Austine asketh what they will do if they chance to meet with one * Qui ne Euangelio quidem credat which beleeueth not the Gospell and by what arguments they will draw him into their opinion n Certè se affirmat non aliter potuisse adduci vt Euangeliâ—m amplectâ—retâ—â— quà m Ecclesiae authoritate victum Verily he affirmeth that â—e for his part could not otherwise be drawne to embrace the Gospel but being ouercome with the authorie of the Church therefore he doth not teach that the credite of the Gospell is founded on the Churches authoritie Whereby it is plaine that Austine propoundeth himselfe as an instance of one that beleeueth not which he could not be when he wrote this but by speaking of the time past And though it were throughly proued that he spake of himselfe being a Christian and in that estate said he would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the authoritie of the Church moued him yet were it not proued hereby that he meant the present Church as it runneth from time to time or the Church of Rome or any other place as it now standeth For if some Papists misse it not he meant the Church which was in the Apostles times which saw Christs miracles and heard his preaching Durand o 3. d. 24. q. 1. in litera o. saith That which is spoken concerning the approbation of the Scripture by the Church is meant onely of that Church which was in the Apostles time Of the same mind are p Dried de var. dogm l. 4. c. 4. Gers de vita anima Occham dial l. 1. part 1. c 4. others whereby he may see that Austine giueth a kind of authoritie to the Church but it is not that Church which should serue his turne Neither is the authoritie giuen large enough to reach the Popish conceit or the Iesuites conclusion if we had not the testimony of the Church we could not be infallibly sure that there were any Gospell at all nor know these bookes to be Scripture for Canus a Doctor of his owne q Vbi supra confesseth I do not beleeue that the Euangelist saith true because the Church telleth me he saith true but because God hath reuealed it And r Triplicat incho 〈◊〉 uers Whitak in Admon Stapleton The inward testimonie of the spirit is so effectuall for the beleeuing of any point of faith that by it alone any matter may be beleeued though the Church hold her peace or be neuer heard And Å¿ Comment theol tom 3. pag. 31 Gregorie of Valence The reuelation of the Scripture is beleeued not vpon the credit of any other reuelation but for it selfe And t qâ—â— Sent. 1 q. 1. art 3. pag 50. liâ—eta C. â—â—ce Greg. Arimin prolog n sent q. 1. art 3. pag. 4. Cardinall Cameracensis The verities contained in the Canon of the Bible onely are the principles and foundation of Diuinitie and receiue not their authority by other things whereby they may be demonstrated And therefore this testimonie of Austine proueth not that he beleeued the Gospel through the Churches authoritie as by a Theologicall principle whereby the Gospel might be proued true but onely as it were by a cause mouing him to credite it as if he should say I would not beleeue the Gospell vnlesse the holinesse of the Church or Christs miracles did moue me In which saying though some cause of his beleeuing the Gosp ll be assigned yet u Compare this wâ—â— the place of Bozius alledged in the beginning of this Digress letter a. no former principle is touched whose credite might be the cause why the Gospell should be beleeued These speeches of our very aduersaries which the truth it selfe hath wroong from them deserue to be obserued the more because
the Iesuite so confidently beareth his friend in hand that the Gospels of the foure Euangelists cannot be knowne to be true Scripture more then those of Thomas and Nicodemus but by the authoritie of his Church Wherein possible he hath also the same meaning that Doctor Standish vttereth in the place alledged x In the letter b. a little before that those counterfeit Gospels bearing the titles of Thomas Nicodemus and Bartholomew were written by them in deed but his Church to shew her authoritie that this she can do hath repealed them A fat conceit yet some mens stomackes belike can digest it But if the Iesuite cannot conceiue how the Scripture may be discerned from other writings vnlesse we allow him the Churches authoritie let him hearken and learne of a rare man of his owne side Picus of Mirandula who speaking of the Scriptures y Refert Posseu bibl in Cicero c. 11. hath this memorable saying They do not moue they do not perswade but they enforce vs they driue vs forward they violently constraine vs. Thou readest words rude and homely but such as are quicke liuely flaming stinging piercing to the bottome of the spirit and by their admirable power transforming the whole man This admirable light shining in the Scripture it selfe shall assure vs it is the word of God better I hope then that Church whose tongue is sold to speake nothing but the Popes will § 29. Fourthly if to haue an entire faith in all particular points must be foreknowne as a marke whereby to know the true Church then contrary to that which hath bene alreadie proued the authoritie of the Church should not be a necessarie meanes whereby men must come to the infallible knowledge of true faith for if before we come to know which is the true Church we might by other meanes haue knowne which is the true faith in all points what need then is there for getting the true faith alreadie had to vse or bring the authoritie of the Church The Answer 1 Because this reason is the same with that which goeth before therefore it shall receiue the same answer That although we need the ministerie of the Church to teach vs the faith and this faith is not ordinarily knowne till the Church or some member thereof reueale it to vs yet may it be a marke whereby to know the Church as the effect is a marke of the cause that produceth it the fruite of the tree the teaching of the schoolemaister In which case the reuelation of the true faith whereby we come to know it is an effect or worke of the Church and so able and fit to assure vs that it is the Church Neither doth this suppose or imply that the faith is already had and knowne by other meanes before we vse the Church but onely that when the Church teacheth the faith thereof in the order of my vnderstanding is first knowne that is to say the Church and the faith being inseparably ioyned together yet the faith first cometh to my knowledge This I further explicate by a similitude For musick is the marke of a Musitian whereby to know him and to distinguish him from all other professions And though I must first be assured it is good musicke that he sheweth before I can be certaine he is a Musitian yet were it folly to reason as the Iesuite doth what need then is there for the getting of the musicke already had to vse the ministerie of the Musitian for the musicke is not already had but onely by his playing it cometh in order before himselfe into my vnderstanding and then I know him thereby So a 1. Reg. 3.16 two women laid claime both to one child and both pretended themselues to be true mother thereunto as the Church of Rome this day striueth with vs pleading for her selfe that she is our holy mother the Church and the child is hers in this contention we must find out the Church by the same markes that Salomon found out the true mother which was her tender compassion inclosed in her bowels and discouered by her words that she had rather part with her child then haue it cut in sunder And if the Iesuite should reason against Salomons iudgement that he had followed a wrong marke which was inclosed in the woman heart and needed great iudgement yea diuine illumination to find it the woman her selfe by her speech and behauiour made it knowne to him and if pietie and pitie were the note of a true mother whereby to know her then contrary to that which hath bene already proued the speech and behauiour of the mother should not be a necessary meanes whereby Salomon must come to the knowledge of this pietie c. If I say he should thus argue against Salomon he might do it with the same reason that he vseth against vs and possible with as good successe * V. vltim the spirit of God and the iudgement of all Israel in both alike equally condemning his sophistry For was not the womans pitie toward the child knowne to Salomons wisedome before he knew her to be the mother and yet her selfe was the instrument that made it knowne So true faith is the mark of the Church and known to me before the Church but yet by no other meanes but by the Church whose ministery is needful for the getting it as the cause is needfull for the obtaining of the effect and afterward it selfe is proued by the same effect Now the teaching of the truth is an effect of the true Church § 30. Fiftly if before we giue absolute infallible and vndoubted credit to the true Church we must examine and iudge whether euery particular point which it teacheth be the truth with authoritie to accept that which we like or which in our conceit seemeth right and conformable to Gods word and to reiect whatsoeuer we dislike or which in our priuate iudgement seemeth not so right or conformable then we make our selues examiners and iudges ouer the Church and consequently preferre our liking or disliking our iudgement and censure of the sence of Scripture before the iudgement definition and censure of the true Church But it is absurd both in reason and religion to preferre the iudgement of anie priuate man be he neuer so wittie or learned or neuer so strongly perswaded in his owne conceit that he is taught by the Spirit before the sentence of Gods Catholike Church which is a companie of men many of which both are and haue bin most vertuous wise and learned and which is chiefe is such a companie as according to the absolute and infallible promises of Scripture hath Christ himselfe and his holy Spirit continually among them guiding them and teaching them all truth and not permitting them to erre Matth. vlt. 10.14 16. vt supra The Answer 1 This is his last argument wherein he reasoneth thus that if the faith be a note of the Church then it must first be examined
haue him say so For t Ioh. 5.39 our Sauiour himselfe refused not to haue his doctrine tried though he were better then the Church neither is it vnpossible for a priuate man to espy an error in the teaching of the best Church that is in which case he may iudge the Church and his iudgement is to be preferred as u Panormit Gerson whose words you haue Digress 15. nu 10. some Papists themselues deny not And out of question I thinke the most learned and discreet Papists to be wholly of this mind in that many of them haue called in question againe things already determined by their Church thinking the same that we do that it is not sufficient to make an end of questiōs vnlesse we be also sure the end is good For it is an ordinarie thing with the Iesuites and schoolemen of these dayes to expound the decrees of their Councels cleane against the originall meaning thereof which sheweth they mislike that which was decreed and helpe themselues with the fauour of the glosse against the text So the Councels of Lateran and Trent haue determined against the communion in both kinds forbidding the cup yet Ouandus a late Frier x Breuiloqu in 4. d. 9. prop. 6. pag. 221. writeth that all things duely considered that may fall out it were better to permit the cup then deny it and more grace is giuen in both kinds then in one And y Refert Bel de iustifica l. 3. c. 3. Catharinus the Bishop of Compsa maintaineth against the Trent Councell that a man by faith may be assured of the pardon of his sinnes whereas that Councell z Sess 6. cap. 9. determined the contrary And Sixtus Senensis a great clearke a Bibl. l. 1. p. 33. hath reiected as Apocrypha the seuen last chapters of Hester b Sess 4. which the Councell of Trent approued for canonicall Which these men would neuer haue done if they had thought it any iniurie to their Church to examine her teaching 5 And whereas he obiecteth further that the Church is a company of men wise learned vertuous and guided by the spirit of God and therefore it is rashnesse to iudge of their teaching I answer that this ill befits him and his cause for c Digress 16. nu 4. I haue shewed that his Church consisteth rather in the Popes sole person thē in any great company and the definitions thereof follow not the learning or vertue of any company but the Popes bare will who by the confession of all learned Papists may both erre and be as vitious foolish and vnlearned as any other And therefore the Church with her prerogatiues can do a Papist no good vntill they be taken from the Pope and giuen the Church againe Next though the company which is the Church be wise and learned c. yet are they no wiser then Christ and his Apostles whose teaching was examined neither can we know them for such till we haue tryed their teaching For d Iob 32 6.9 wise men see not all things at all times and the child with reuerence may admonish euen his father And though our Sauiour haue promised the assistance of his spirit to his Church to leade it into all truth yet in what sence that is e §. 14. nu 4. 5. I haue declared alreadie and the Iesuite may know it is not in his sence by this signe that the very persons and particular Churches to whom Christ meant those words had their errors for all that But supposing the Churches doctrine by vertue of some such promise be indeed absolutely exempted from all error yet may the same be examined and iudged of because till that be done it cannot of vs be knowne to be so For no man saith we must proue things already certaine but that we must not beleeue them to be certaine till we haue proued them And if the true Church cannot erre in any point then it standeth all men in hand to examine which is the true Church that so they may betake themselues vnto it and let him giue you a sound distinction and say directly what presumption it is against the Church and why an iniury to examine her doctrine more then it is to trie her vnitie sanctitie antiquity and succession Or if it be no wrong to make triall of these things which yet she hath by vertue of Christs promises why should it be amisse to make triall of the former which he dareth not for his life say is hers any properlier or fullier then they § 31. But you may perhaps obiect that in Scripture we are willed not to beleeue euery spirit but to examine and trie the spirits whether they be of God or no and that therefore we must examine and trie the spirit of the Church I answer that S. Iohn doth not meane that it appertaineth to euerie man to trie all spirits but in generall would not haue the Church to accept of euery one that boasteth himselfe to haue the Spirit but willeth that they should trie those spirits not that euery simple man should take vpon him thus to trie them but that those of the Church should trie them to whom the office of trying the spirits doth appertaine to wit the Doctors and Pastors of the Church which almightie God hath put of purpose in the Church Vt non circumferamur omni vent◠doctrinae Ephes 4. and that we may not like little ones wauer with euery blast of those that boast they haue the Spirit So that this trying of spirits is onely meant of those spirits which men may doubt whether they be of God or no and then also this triall belongeth to the Pastors of the Church But when it is once certaine that the spirit is of God we neither neede nor ought doubtfully to examine nor presumptuously iudge or it any more but obediently submitting the iudgement of our owne sense and reason we must beleeue the teaching of it in euery point Now it is most certaine that the spirit of the true Church is of God as out of holy Scripture hath bene most euidently declared and therefore our onely care should be to seeke out those markes and properties by which all men may easily know which particular companie of men is the true Church which we ought not to examine and trie but in all points obediently beleeue The Answer 1 The words of the Apostle are Dearly beloued beleeue not euery spirit but try the spirits whether they be of God 1. Ioh. 4.1 Whence we gather that it is the dutie of euery man to examine the doctrine that is taught him But the Iesuite answereth two things first that Saint Iohn biddeth not euery man do this but onely the Pastors Whereto I answer the words are plaine enough that he speaketh indifferently to all men that euery man for himselfe though not by himselfe but by the rule of Gods word should try the spirits For he directeth his Epistle
8. c. 22 Zosim l. 5. Socr l. 6. c. 18. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 p. 262. The Cathedrall Church at Constantinople with the Senate house were set on fire burned to the ground in the pursuit of reuenge The people were robbed of their Pastors and the Pastors themselues persecuted each other and pursued their people most vnmercifully Caesar Baronius beginning to intreate of this contention z Annal tom 5 An. 400. nu 51. hath these words A shamefull contention in the Church the lamentable narration wherof I now take in hand wherein shall be described the bickering and cursed persecution not of Gentile against Christians or heretickes against Catholickes or wicked men against good and iust men but which is monstrous and prodigious of Saints and holy men one against another The which words make it plaine that this contention was among Gods owne children in the true Church The like is written of the Bishops in the Councell of Nice a 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Sozo l. 1 c. 17. accusing one another to the Emperour as soone as they were assembled of whose iarres that famous speech of Constantine made vnto them vpon that occasion giueth witnesse wherin among many other things b Soz. ibid. Niceph l 8. c. 16. idem in Conc. â—y â—apud Niceph l 8. c. 50. Euseb vit CoÌ„stant l. 3. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 he telleth them that he thinketh this worse then all the euils to be vttered that he seeth the Church of God dissenting by contentions and contrary opinions Yea Sozomen c 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 lib. 1. c. 16. saith The contrarietie of opinions among the learned at that time was so scandalous that it turned many from embracing the Christian religion So likewise in a Councell holden at Constantinople for the deposing of Nazianzen he thus admonisheth the Bishops d Vita Nazian praefixa operibus eius Graecè editis Basil It is a shame ô my fellow Pastors of the sacred flocke of Christ and not befitting you if while you teach others peace your selues fall to warre and how shall you perswade others to vnitie your selues being at variance In the second Councell of Ephesus Flauianus the Bishop of Constantinople was deposed e Liberat. breu c. 12. Niceph. l. 14. c. 47. pitifully murthered f Euagr. l. 1. c. 10 Niceph. l. 14. c. 47. with him were also deposed Eusebius Dorilaeus Ibas Theodoret Domnus Daniel Aquilinus and Irenaeus all Catholicke Bishops and this was not done by the faction of Dioscorus alone g Baro. An. 449 nu 97. 98. 105. but by the Catholicke Bishops themselues all which saith Baronius Consented both to the restoring of Eutyches and deposing of Flauianus and the rest There was in this contentious Councell aboue 132. Bishops whereof the foure Patriarkes beside the Popes Deputie were part yea it was an Oecumenicall Councell lawfully assembled of Catholicke Bishops yet through the conueiance of cunning aduersaries they were set one against another For the godly men of those times had secret enemies grieuous wolues in sheeps clothing who tooke all occasions to abuse their simplicity and set them at variance among themselues For so do men vse h Sozo l. 6. c. 4. saith an old historie speaking of this matter as long as strangers wrong them to hold together but when they are deliuered frâ—m outward troubles then they fall out among themselues Thus the policie of the Arrians kindled those contentions that among the Catholickes brake out in the cause of Athanasius and by strange deuices nourished them wherby they drew godly Bishops into their faction against the truth as i Haer 68. Epiphanius noteth of the Meletians * Primas fereÌ„tes tum in pietate tuÌ„ in vita Meletiani qui summam iustitiam veritatis demonstrabaÌ„t Godly men that being mingled with the Arrians though they abode in the true faith yet were they not free from some contagion which they gathered in that societiâ— and one part hereof was k Atha orat 1. contr Arrian their standing with others against Athanasius This was it that bred the troubles among the Bishops in the Councels of Seleucia Syrmium Antioch Tirus Lampsacum Ariminum and many other wherin euermore something was practised euen by Bishops of the true faith against their fellow Bishops and the faith it selfe The Councell of Ariminum is famous for this wherein there were aboue 400. Bishops of the West all Catholicke l Athan. de Synod but 50. or therabouts that were Arrians and yet they relented from the faith of the Nicen Councel towards Arrianisme and gaue occasion of infinite broiles in the Church afterward by their inconstancie 5 And long before this Saint Cyprian lamented Church-contentions and m L. 4. Ep. 4. thinketh God sent the persecutions of his time for no other cause These euils saith he had not come vpon the brethren if they had bin linked together in brotherly concord And a little after the persecution of Iulian was ouer the stories n Sozo l. 6. c 4. Niceph. l. 10. c. 40. tell how the Church-gouernours againe moued questions and disputations about the dogmaticall points of faith And Eusebius beginning to intreate of the bloody persecution which the Church suffered vnder Diocletian saith the contentions of the learned therein was the cause o Lib. 8. hist c. 1 these are his words They also saith he which seemed to be our Pastors casting off the rule of piety inflamed themselues with mutuall contentions each against other they increased nothing but strife threats enuy and quarels euerie man with all tyranny pursuing his ambition Neither did the persecution ensuing stay this dissention but as soone as euer peace came to the Church they fell to it againe p Euseb vit Constan l. 3. Gela. CyzeceÌ„ Act conc Nic. l. 2 c. 7. 8. that the good Emperour which brought this peace had much ado with all his authoritie to appease them wherupon Basil the great maketh this sorowfull complaint In other arts and sciences q Aschet proae de iudic Dei p. â—89 Graec. The like complaint made by the Emperour Theodosius of the Catholicke Bishops in his time 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Concil Ephes pag. 235. saith he I haue seene much concord among the professors thereof onely in the Church of God I haue obserued so much diuision and so exceeding great dissention of many both among themselues and against the holy Scriptures and that which is most horrible the Bishops themselues haue stood in such difference among themselues both of mind and opinion and contrary to the commandements of Christ haue vsed such contrarietie that thereby the Church of God hath bene vnmercifully drawn in sunder and his flocke troubled without all care and pitie A heauy complaint and such as chargeth the Church with a foule blemish euen as foule euery way as that wherewith the Iesuite and the rest of our enemies this day vpbraid the Church
appeareth by d Ep. 109. lib. 7. the epistle of Gregorie to Serenus and e De inuent l. 6 c. 13. Polydore a Papist confesseth All the Fathers condemned the worship of Images for feare of idolatry Afterward the second Nicene councel brought in the worship also f Act. 7. decreeing notwithstanding that no image should be adored with Latria diuine honour but at the last g Part. 3. q. 25. art 3 4. Thomas of Aquin h Ses 25. and the Trent Councel i Fr. Suar tvm. 1 disp 54 sect 4. Vazqu de adorat l. 2. c. 4. expouÌ„ded so by the Iesuits taught that diuine honor also should be giuen to them Here we see three alterations in one point the bringing of Images in the reuerencing them with ciuill honor the adoring them with diuine worship 14 The fift example shall be in the article of iustification For Thomas k Lect. 4. in Gal. 3. writeth that no workes either ceremoniall or morall are the cause why any man is iust before God For workes are not the cause that man is iust but the execution and manifestation of his iustice because no man is iustified with God by his worke but by the habit of faith infused This doctrine of Thomas is proued to haue bene the faith of the Romane Church in his time by this that he was made a Saint therein and was as l Studiosus impendio pontificum Fr. Vict. rel 1. de potest Eccl. p. 41. they say of him exceedingly deuoted to the Pope yea m Henriquez sum moral proaem the fift Doctor of the Latin Church and the light of all the world who brought all Theologie into a briefe summe c. Yet n Ses 6. the Councell of Trent is varied from this decreeing that mans owne inherent iustice is the formall cause of his iustification and that we are not iustified by faith since which time the learned men of that Church haue left Thomas in the point 15 Many other examples may be giuen of their inconstancy and no doubt they could be content to alter much more if the feare of losing their credit with men did not restraine them as their owne confessions now and then vnawares breaking out from them giue probabilitie We acknowledge freely o Biblioth sanct l. 8. pag 365. saith Sixtus Senensis that there are many faults in our Latine edition of the Bible which yet the Church hath left therein lest the faithfull whose eares haue alwayes from their infancie bene inured thereunto should now be offended with the noueltie of an exact correction And concerning the Communion vnder one kind p Fr. Ouand 4. d. 9. prop. 6. one of them saith that All things duely considered it were better to grant the cup then to denie it And touching the adoration of Images with diuine worship q Bel. de Imag. li. 2. c. 22. Sâ—ar to 1. disp 54. sect 4. the learnedst among them that euen themselues hold it yet thinke it not fit to be vttered in common talke or sermons before the people but rather the contrary that they ought not so to be worshipped And whereas to take away the odiousnes of this opinion that yeeldeth the honor of God to an Image r Cathar lib. de Imagin ador concl 6. 7. Peres de tradit part 3. some would haue them worshipped with a worship inferiour to that which is giuen to the first Samplar and Å¿ Holk in Sap. lect 157. Durand 3. d. 9. q. 2. Picus Mirand apol q. 3. some would haue no worship at all giuen to them but onely men should vse them to stirre themselues vp to the worship of the Samplar by kneeling before them this is misliked by othersome t Vazq de adorat l. 2. nu 415. who thinke it could be propounded to the people with small fruite yea it were foolishnesse to speake it So that we see the learned in the Church of Rome can hold nothing so absolute but some of their fellowes vary from it and what is propounded therein as matter to beleeue and practise is misliked among themselues the most being readie to receiue alteration in some points or other whensoeuer occasion should bring it in Digression 24. Touching the contentions among the learned of the Church of Rome and how the Papists liue not in that vnitie that is pretended 16 They which know Rome and Papistry are sufficiently satisfied in this matter onely some ignorant persons whom the cunning handling of such as this Iesuite is hath got into their possession will beleeue no discord to be among them But were we all so blind that we could see none of this contention yet their noyse outcries in schooles Councels pulpits and consistories one against another would make vs heare it the clamors of the conteÌ„ders resouÌ„ding in our eares no lesse then the noyse of two armies when they ioyne battell or as the old philosophers of whom u Lucian in Timon one saith merrily that with the noyse of their disputations they so filled the eares of Iupiter and made him deafe that he could not heare their praiers In whose roome x Schol. in Lud. Senec. de morte Claud. §. Facilius inter Philoso saith Rhenanus himself a Papist haue succeeded a Gods name Scotus Aquinas Egidius Romanus and others whose contentions are no lesse then that which was among the Philosophers that herein they may seeme aboue all things to resemble the old Academicks Stoicks and Peripateticks For first y See Auentin anal Boio l. 6. pag. 407. they haue the families of the schoolmen wherin euery one professeth his particular sect-maister Thomas Scot Occham or Durand where both masters and scholers haue spent their life and writings in nothing else but opposition against each other that it is truly spoken of them THERE IS NOTHING DISPVTED OR AFFIRMED BY ANY ONE OF THEM WHICH IS NOT GAINSAID BY ANOTHER Thus the Dominican and Franciscan Friers spent with their partakers whole ages in quarelling about the conception of the virgin Marie and thus the moderne Doctors of this time contend about euery thing depending in controuersie betweene them and vs hauing no certaintie among theÌ„selues what they may say against vs so far forth that I * An offer made to the Papists for the triall of the questions betweene vs. offer to make demoÌ„stration hauing done it partly already throughout this treatise against any that will deny it That there is no one point denyed or affirmed against vs wherein they vary not among themselues and if any Papist will alledge or set downe what he thinketh is the truth in any question or exposition of Scripture controuerted betweene vs I will name him againe a learned Papist either old or new that saith the contrary which is enough to show they haue no vnitie 17 This may also be confirmed by their writing one against another z His sermons printed with the booke of his answer to
be more edified they want therefore this fruit Thirdly touching Latin Seruice Thomas Aquine and Cardinall Caietan u in 1. Cor. 14 hold it is better for the edification of the Church to be in the vulgar tongue Fourthly touching the power of Priesthood to remit sinne x 4. d 18. §. Non autem the Master of Sentences and y Fr. Victor relect 1. de potes Eccl. sect 3. others with him hold that onely God forgiueth sinne and the Priest bindeth and looseth onely by declaring them to be bound or loosed himself working no spirituall effect Fiftly touching shrift z De poenit d 5 in poenit gloss Panot ibid. the Canon Lawyers say it was not ordained by Christ but taken vp by an institution of the Church and Michael Bononiensis a Expos in Ps 29. saith It is not needfull for our iustification or the pardon of our sinne and Caietan b 3. Tho. q. 80. art 4. holdeth A man by contrition without any confession is made clean a formall member of the Church 6. Touching iustificatioÌ„ by our own righteousnesse Th Aquin c In Gal. 3. lect 4. saith No workes either ceremoniall or morall are the cause why any man is iust before God For works are not the cause that man is iust but the execution and manifestation of his righteousnesse because no man is iustified with God by his works but by the habite of faith infused And againe d In Rom. 3. lect 4 1. Tim. 1 lect 3. he saith The Apostle sheweth iustification to be wrought by faith onlie there is in the workes of the Law no hope of iustification but by faith onely Seuenthly touching the imputation of Christs holinesse for our iustification and the apprehesion thereof by faith Pighius e Bell. de grat l. 1. c. 3. de iustific l. 2 c. 1. holdeth that there is in vs no inherent righteousnesse whereby we may be iustified but f Controu Ratispon contr 2. pag. 47. edit Paris 1549. that we are iustified in Christ not by our owne but by the righteousnesse of God and Christ interposing his iustice betweene his Fathers iudgement and our iniustice so we present our selues boldly before Gods tribunall not onely seeming but also being iust and the reason why our righteousnesse is placed in the obedience of Christ is because we being incorporate into him * Nobis illi incorporatis acsi nostra esset accepta ea fertuâ— ita vt ea ipsa etiam nos iusti habeantur it is imputed to vs and by the same we are accounted iust And the Diuines of Collen g Antididagm Colon. pag. 29. A booke written by Gropper of whom the def of the Cens saith he was the rare man of our age See his commondations in Sur. comment An. 1547. p. 424. say We are iustified by faith as by the apprehending cause such a faith as without all doubting assureth vs of the pardon of our sinnes through Christ whereof notwithstanding it behooueth vs to be assured by the testimony of the holy Ghost through faith and after the same manner we are iustified of God by a twofold iustice as it were by formall and essentiall causes whereof the first is the perfect iustice of Christ not as it is without vs abiding in him but as the same being apprehended by faith is imputed to vs. This righteousnesse of Christ thus imputed to vs is the principall cause of our iustification whereon we must chiefly trust and stay our selues Eightly touching the certaintie of a mans owne saluation h Enchirid. Concil Colon. tit de iustif c. noÌ„ habes ergo the same Diuines of Collen write thus We confesse the truth is that to a mans iustifiâ—ation it is required that he certainly beleeue not onely in generall that they which truly repent haue their sinnes forgiuen by Christ but that his owne selfe also hath forgiuenesse through Christ by faith i Innoc. Gentill exam Con. Trid. The same was also preached openly by Marinarius a Frier at the Trent Councell Ninthly touching merits k De iustif l. 5. c. 7. idem Waldenâ— tom 3. de Sacra c. 7. Bellarmine saith In regard of the vncertaintie of our owne righteousnesse and because of the danger of vaine glory the safest way is to put our confidence in the sole mercy and goodnesse of God 10. Touching the sacrifice of the Masse Cornelius Mus l Sixt. Senen bâ—blioth sanct lib 4. a Bishop so famous for his learning that he was a Preacher at twelue yeares old and all Italie ran after him defended m Fr. Sua. tom 3. d. 74. s 2. that Christ at his last supper offered no sacrifice at all 11. Touching the Apocrypha it is cleare n Lyra Hugo Caâ—et Sigonius and others that many deny them to be canonicall Scripture 12. Touching the communion vnder one kinde Ouandus o 4. d 9. Pro. 6. saith It were better to allow the cup to the people then to deny it and lesse hurt would grow by yeelding then by detaining it 13. Touching mariage p 4. d. 26 q 3. quem refert Ioh. Capreol ibid. Durand held it was no sacrament and Canus q Loc. l. 8. c. 5. saith it is none vnlesse the Priest by solemne words of the Church do it And r Tolet. Sum. cas l. 7 c. 21. that which some Papists call heresie that the innocent party may lawfully marrie againe after diuorce is affirmed by Å¿ Comment in 19. Mat. Caietan and t Annot in Caiet l. 5. Catharinus 14. Touching freewill Ariminensis u In 2 d. 26 p. 103. denyeth that a man can will any thing that is good by nature without the special helpe of Gods grace and Alphonsus x Lib. 9. verbo Libert holdeth our wil is free from constraint but not from necessitie 15. Touching the descention of Christ into hell y In 3. d 22. q 3 Durand and z Apol. qu. 1. Picus Mirandula deny it affirming that he descended not properly and in substance but onely by effect in that without any locall motion the power of his death reached thither By these few examples you may coniecture how well they agree that thus are diuided about the principal articles of their faith and nothing can be so generally or certainly receiued but some or other among them deny it 21 And to manifest this contention yet a little more you shal see what a number of opinions they haue among theÌ„ concerning any question which themselues moue in Diuinitie For example whereas in the Sacrament they thinke the substance of bread and wine passe away the formes or accidents onely remaining the question is in what subiect or substance these accidents abide Some say they remaine separated without any subiect this is the opinion of Occham Biel Cameracensis Maior and the Nominals Some that they obtain a way wherby to exist of themselues this is the opinion of
faith The Answer 1 The Iesuite hauing immediatly before propounded the vnitie of his Romane Church affirming that therein onely the vnitie of faith and concord of the learned is to be found now proceedeth to proue it by shewing the meanes which they haue for the preuenting of discord which he thinketh so all-sufficient that it were impossible there should be any dissention among them The summe of that which he saith is briefly this They which acknowledge one chiefe Pastor to wit the Pope to whose definitiue sentence in all matters they submit themselues cannot possibly dissent But all Catholickes acknowledge this chiefe Pastor and submit themselues to his definitiue sentence Therefore how is it possible they should dissent The second proposition he assumeth as granted though indeed it be vntrue as I will shew the first he proueth thus They cannot dissent who submit themselues to him that hath authoritie and infallibilitie of iudgement But the Pope hath this authoritie and infallibilitie Therefore they which submit themselues to the Pope cannot dissent The second proposition he confirmeth thus We know that to S. Peter and his successors Christ promised the keyes and sayd vpon them as vpon a rocke he would build his Church praying for them that their faith should not faile and bidding them strengthen their brethren and feede his sheepe which importeth this authoritie in ruling and infallibilit it in iudging But the Pope is S. Peters successor The Pope therefore hath this authoritie and infallibilitie This being the summe of his discourse I answer first to that which he assumeth so confidently that all Catholicke men submit themselues to the Popes definitions acknowledging the same to be of infallible truth For whatsoeuer his authoritie and iudgement be yet the Catholickes do not so vniformly as the Iesuite pretendeth submit their opinions to him but contrariwise when occasion is offered they vtterly refuse both him and his definitions and this is so true that he which will denie it must be reputed ignorant of all sense and experience the which manifestly shew that not onely the Christian Catholicks of the Primitiue Church but the Popish Catholickes of the Romish Church this day themselues haue reiected his determinations and held opinion against him Digression 25. Wherein it is shewed that in the Primitiue Church the Popes determination was not thought an infallible truth neither did the Christians for the maintenance of vnitie submit themselues thereunto 2 For many Catholicke Bishops in those dayes dissenting from the Bishop of Rome and refusing his decrees were not thought therefore to breake any vnitie in the Church For Aeneas Syluius who was himselfe a Pope about seuen score yeares since a Epist 301. writeth that before the Councell of Nice euery man liued to himselfe and small respect was had to the Church of Rome b Sozom. l. 3. c. 8. The Bishops of the East withstood Iulius in the cause of Athanasius and charged him that he had done against the lawes of the Church c Theod l. 5. c. 23. Sozom l. 7. c. 11. Flauianus the Patriark of Antioch about his succeeding Meletius in that sea against Paulinus resisted foure Popes one after another when they would haue had him giue roome to Paulinus d Epi. ad Vrsac Valent. Germin apud Baron annal to 3. ann 357. nu 44. Liberius who was Pope in the yeare 360. confessed that Athanasius was separated from the communion of the Church of Rome Yea e Baron ibid. nu 43. 46. the Papists themselues acknowledge this Liberius condemned Athanasius and entred communion with the Arrians which sheweth against all exception that in those dayes the godly Christians did not thinke either that the Pope was the head of vnitie or that all were of the true Church that held communion with him for then the Arrians had bene good Catholickes and Athanasius with all that tooke part with him had bene hereticks which no man dareth say About the yeare 450. f Act. 16. the Councel of Chalcedon wherein were 630. Bishops withstood Leo then Pope of Rome in the question of his supremacie Concerning which matter g Concor Cathol l. 2. c. 20. pag 748. Cusanus a Cardinall beareth witnesse It is manifest saith he that Pope Leo would not in certaine points receiue the constitutions of the Chalcedon Councell specially that the Church of Constantinople should go before the Church of Alexandria but alwayes gainsaid them as some other Popes did after him and yet the decree of the Councell alwayes preuailed Which experience proueth that in those times the Bishops ouer all the world would as occasion serued refuse the Popes iudgement and yet they were counted good Catholickes for all that So likewise in the yeare 418. h Cap. 105. the sixt Councell of Carthage hauing in it 217. Bishops resisted three Popes one after another decreeing things contrary to the authoritie of the Church of Rome as i Contaré sum Concil magis illustr pag. 263. the Papists themselues expound the Councell whereof Cusanus k Vbi supra writeth thus The Councell of Affricke withstood Celestin in that he would do against the Councell of Nice and Celestin replied not that he might do it but alledged for himselfe the Councell though corrupted Which opposition made against the Pope is so apparent that many Papists indeed labour to excuse it but none denie it and l Sic vndique CarthagineÌ„ses patres constringuntur vt elabi nullo modo possint quis iam ferat crassissimae ignoâ—antiae illam vocem in tot tantis patribus vbi illa Augustini reliquorum prudentia Alan Cope dial pag 76. 77. the despitefull speeches of some Papists against S. Austine and the Bishops bewray that they discouer the same resistance made by the Councell against the Pope that I mention 3 Againe in the yeare 167. m Euseb hist l. 5. c. 23. inde Niceph. l. 4. c. 37. inde there arose a contention in the Church about the keeping of Easter whereby the Bishops of the East and West were deuided in which contention the Popes definitiue sentence was not receiued but refused without any offence against the vnitie of the Church For first Polycarpe coming to Anicetus that was Bishop of Rome in his time would not yeeld to him neither could Anicetus perswade Polycarpe to lay by his maner of obseruation n Euseb li. 5. c. 26. saith the story and yet both sides retained vnitie About thirtie yeares after the question was renewed o Cap. 25. and Victor the Bishop of Rome being earnest against the Easterne Bishops excommunicated them But this saith Eusebius pleased them not for they wrote vnto him reprouing him sharply and bitterly as namely Polycrates the bishop of Ephesus and Irenaeus the bishop of Lyons here in the West These had many on their side that stood against the Bishop of Rome and that which afterwards tooke vp the controuersie was not his
where the accusers and witnesses be vnlesse peraduenture a few desperate and gracelesse persons thinke the authoritie of the Bishops in Affricke that haue iudged theÌ„ to be lesse This which Cyprian saith was afterward decreed in Councels both general and prouincial which could not haue bene if the Pope had bene supreme iudge of all the Church and head of the vnity thereof nay Cyprian saith * Oportet vtique eos quibus prae sumus non circuÌ„cursare nec Episcoporum concordiaÌ„ cohaerentem sua temeritate col lidere The vnitie of Bishops is broken when men runne from their owne to the Bishop of Rome The eight generall Councell holden at Constantinople hath this n Can. 26. decree The order of appealing shall be this that he which thinketh himselfe wronged by his owne Bishop may appeale to his Metropolitan who shall call the matter before him But if Bishops thinke they are wronged by their Metropolitan be it lawfull for them to appeale to the Patriarke who shall end the strife that in no case a Metropolitan haue any power ouer his neighbour Metropolitan or a Bishop ouer his neighbour Bishop The like was decreed long before by the Councell of Chalcedon o Cap. 9. which expresly maketh the Patriarke of Constantinople the last and highest iudge vnder the Councell for all matters falling out in Greece And p C 22. the Councell of Mileuâ— excommunicateth all that would appeale to places out of Affricke Where then was the Popes supreme authoritie in these daies when the Councels and discipline thus hemmed men in that they should not come at him This some Papists see well enough and confesse Cusanus q Concord l. 2. c. 13. saith The Pope hath it not from the Church-rule that he may hurt the iurisdiction of other Bishops because this were to disturbe order Therfore we do not reade that the ancient Popes euer put themselues into such matters and peraduenture it would not haue bene suffered For the Councell of Affricke whereto S. Austin subscribed allowed no appeale from the Synode to the Pope because it was not found allowed in the Church canons but contrariwise the Nicen Councell decreed that a Synode should end euery cause where it was begun 28 The third experience is that he had no authoritie ouer generall Councels either of his owne power to call them or being called to be sole president or hauing decreed any thing to iudge or rule or countermand them all which he now vseth but then did none of theÌ„ For first the power of assembling Councels was in temporall magistrates so r L. 5. hist prâ—oem saith Socrates When once the Emperours begâ—n to be Chrstians from that time forward the Church affaires depended vpon theÌ„ and the greatest Councels were assembled and so still are at their appointment And this appeareth to be true by going through the particulars For let all the ancient Councels be read and there is not one of them but the very Actes and Titles thereof will shew the Prince called it which is so true that Pighius a learned Papist Å¿ Hier. l 6. c. 1. writeth The assembling of generall Councels was the inuention of Constantine The first general Councell was that of Nice t Gelas Cyzic pag. 67. Euseb vit Const l. 3. c. 6. Theod. l. 1. c. 7. Sozom. l. 1. c. 17. Nicet thesau l. 5. c. 5. assembled by the authoritie of Constantine the great The second was at Constantinople u Sozo l. 7. c. 7. Theod. l. 5. c. 7. Zon. to 3. p. 30. called by Theodosius the elder The third was at Ephesus x Concil Eph. graec Euagr. l. 1. c. 3. called by Theodosius the yonger The fourth was at Chalcedon y Concil Cale act 1. Zon. tom 3. pag. 39. called by Valentinian and Martian The fift was at Constantinople z Niceph. l. 17. c. 27. called by Iustinian The sixt was againe at Constantinople a Conc. gen 6. Act. 1. called by Constantinus Pogonatus The seuenth as the Papists reckon it was at Nice b Zon. tom 3. p. 95. Sigon de regn Ital. l. 4. called by the Empresse Irene The eight was againe at Constantinople c Zon. tom 3. pag. 134. Sigon ibid. l. 5. called by Basilius Macedo The Councell of Sardica was d Theod. l. 4. c. 4 called by Constantius the Councell of Syrmium against Photinus e Socr. l. 2 c. 29. Sozo l. 4. c. 6. by Constantine the great The CouÌ„cels of f Socr l 2 c. 36. Millan g Socr. l. 2. c. 37 Ariminum and h Carol. de imag Sigon de Reg. Ital. an 794. Frankford all assembled by the Emperours More particulars may be giuen but these are enow and i Ep. 9.23.24.26 the earnest suite that Leo maketh to the Emperor and Empresse both in his time for a Councell to be holden in Italy which yet he could not obtain maketh it out of question that al power of assembling councels was in the Emperor Yea the point is so cleare that k Aen. Sylu. de Gest conc Bas l. 1. Cusan conc l. 2 c 2. Marsil def part 2 c. 21. many Papists deny it not and l Fr. Victo relect 4. p. 162. some hold that at this day in certaine cases a generall Councell may be called against the Popes mind whether he will or no. 29 Next he was president in no Councell of a long time and when he was yet others were presidents as well as he the said office importing no such command ouer the Councell as now the Pope vsurpeth the which Duarenus a learned Papist confesseth m De sacris eccl benef minist p. 39. saying The office was no more but to call the rest together and to speake vnto them concerning the matters to be handled as the speaker in the Parliament calleth the assembly c. but hath no power ouer them yea the power of determining is in the court it selfe which may also command him Thus was it in times past saith he but now I know not how it cometh to passe that the chiefest gouernment ouer all Christians is giuen to him alone that he becometh free after the manner of Emperours from all Lawes and Councell decrees The which speech of this our aduersary is to be noted because the Iesuit would make you beleeue all Catholike men haue euermore receiued him from Christs own hands as the supreme iudge of all and the refusing of his will were the violating of the Churches vnitie But that which I haue said is easily confirmed for in the Nicen Councell Hosius the Bishop of Corduba Macarius the Patriarke of Ierusalem and Eustathius the Patriark of Antioch n Athan. Ep. ad Solit. Nicet the saur l. 5. c. 6. were presidents if not the Emperor himself also with theÌ„ for o Gelas Cyzic Act. conc Nic. c. 8 Socrat. l. 1. p. 174 gr the story saith That out of his chaire
he vsed speeches of exhortations to the Bishops perswading them to concord and when many things were propounded on both sides and much controuersie in the beginning arose the Emperour heard them all with patience and leisurely receiued that they said by course he entertained the words of both sides quietly reconciling them in their iarres and mildly speaking to euery one and as for the Pope he onely sent two priests to p 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theodor. l. 1. c. 7. assent to the things concluded not to be Presidents in the Councell it being folly to thinke that simple priests should be Presidents ouer Patriarks and Bishops In the second generall Councell holden at Constantinople the case is cleare for q Bell. de conc c. 19. the Iesuiteâ— confesse the Pope was there neither in person nor by his Legates but Nectarius the Patriarke was President In the first Councell of Ephesus r Conc. Eph. â—â—â—c CoÌ„melin Scripâ— ad Thâ—od Valentin Cyril and Memnon were Presidents Å¿ Concil Calc act 1. Euagr. l. 1. c 10. In the second Dioscorus put in by the Emperour t Concil Sard. Theod. l. 3. c. 12 In the Sardican Councell Hosius the Bishop of Corduba and Protogenes the Bishop of Sardice I would reckon vp more particulars but that it is needlesse because the Presidentship was not a matter of power to rule the Councel or to conclude matters after his owne minde though the Councell were against him but as I touched euen now out of Duarenus of honor and order onely to haue the first place to propose things to gather voices to giue direction to publish the Councels definitiue sentence and therefore it concludeth no primacy for him that had it 30 Thirdly he was not reputed to be aboue Councels to ouer-rule and checke them as now he claimeth but contrariwise they iudged and commanded him as appeareth in the practise of the Councel of Chalcedon against Leo of Sinuessa against Marcellinus of the sixt seuenth eight generall councels against Honorius whereof I shall speake more particularly u Digress hereafter And I assure my selfe the most Papists beleeue this to be true because they defend that a Councell is aboue the Pope which they would neuer do but that they caÌ„not deny that so it was in ancient times Cusanus x Concord l. 2. c. 34. saith A generall Councell of the Catholicke Church in all matters is of highest power euen aboue the Pope himselfe y C. 20. And it is manifest that Pope Leo in certaine points would not receiue the constitutions of the Chalcedon Councell but alway disclaimed them and some other Popes after him and yet the decreee of the Councell waâ— of force Panormitan z De Elect. electi pot c. Significasti saith In things touching faith a Councell is aboue the Pope so that he cannot dispose of things against the determination of a Councell hence it is that a Councell may condemne the Pope for heresie For in things concerning faith the saying euen of one priuate man is to be preferred before the Popes iudgement if he haue better reasons authorities of the old and new TestameÌ„t Victoria a Relect. 4. de potest Papae prop 8. saith that Caietan holdeth the Pope may lawfully disanull the decrees neither of generall nor prouinciall Councels nor yet dispense against them but vpon good reason and that the decrees of a Councell binde the Pope in conscience and in this point he is to be beleeued Yea Bellarmine b De Concil l. 2. c. 14. confesseth that Alliaco and Cusanus Cardinals Gerson Almain Antoninus Tostatus and many others hold that a Councell is aboue the Pope yea the Councels of c Constant Sess 4. 5. Constance and d Bas Sess 2. Basil decreed that he should obey the Councell in all things pertaining to faith and reformation of the Church And that which cometh yet closer to the cause a generall Councell hath reuoked things decred by the Pope in a lawfull Synode whereof e Concord l. 2. â— 13. Cusanus giueth an example in the Councell of Chalcedon that examined Leo his proceedings against Dioscorus Vpon all which euidence I dare be bold to say it is manifestly false that the Iesuite affirmeth All Catholicke men haue alway acknowledged the Popes determination to be Gods ordinance for the maintaining of vnitie and if I and all Protestants should hold our peace yet the Iesuits owne fellowes would blabbe it out for f Cap. 12 Cusanus saith The Bishop of Rome by custome of mens obedience toward him hath gotten farre beyond the bounds of the ancient obseruatioÌ„s and g Part. 2. c. 18. Marsilius saith That vnlawfully and against the minde both of diuine and humane reasons he assumeth to himselfe this fulnesse of power both ouer Prince and community and any singular power 31 The last obseruation is the proceeding of Gregory the first a Pope in the later end of the 500. yeare against the Patriarke of Constantinople which was this h Sabel Eâ—nea 8. l. 5. Platin. in Greg. Sigon de regn Ital. l. 1. an 595. He the Patriarke assembled a Synode wherein he was desirous to make himself the vniuersall Bishop ouer all as the Pope now conceiteth himselfe and to this purpose he also laboured the Emperour Maurice to helpe the matter forward who writing to Gregory commanded him to obey the Patriark But Gregory withstood him and by many letters both to the Emperour and him sheweth that no man might be a vniuersall Bishop ouer the rest detesting the name and calling it vaine proud profane blasphemous mischieuous Antichristian against the commaundements of God and decrees of the councels and finally saith he is a follower of Satan and forerunne of Antichrist that assumeth it i See l. 4. ep 32 34. 38. 39. His writings are full of this discourse whereby it appeareth plainly he then had no such iurisdiction as now the Pope vsurpeth but detested it not onely in Iohn of Constantinople but euen in himselfe and calleth the name containing it a proud title and biddeth it be packing k D. 99. Ecce in when one in his letter stiled him with it as l Ib. Primae sedis the Councell of Affricke long before had decreed that not the Romane Bishop himselfe should be called vniuersall Notwithstanding about seuen yeares after Boniface the third of that name preuailed against the Patriarke by the friendship of the next Emperour which by a foule peece of seruice he purchased and obtained that himselfe which the Patriarke had striuen for and so this title with some part of the iurisdiction was first visibly brought into the sea of Rome as m Duaren de sacris eccl minist l. 1 c. 10. Otho Frising chro l. 5. c. 8. Paul Diacon de gest Longo l. 4. c. 11. Sabell Ennead 8. l. 6. Rhegi chro l. 1. Anast Biblioth Luitprand Albo Floriac Platina
in Bonif. 3. Marian. Scot. an 608. Martin Polon an 607. Vrsperg in Phoca Naucler gener 21. in Bonif. 3. all Historiographers with one consent haue left written in these words Boniface with great ado obtained of the Emperour Phocas that he might be made the vniuersall Bishop of the world the which authoritie his successors not onely held fast euen with their teeth but also wonderfully increased The Reader by all this that I haue touched may soone discerne the Popes moderne authoritie exercised among his owne and claimed ouer all to be swolne farre bigger then it was in ancient times But after swelling cometh bursting whereof I reade his followers beware in time Digression 28. Shewing that the Pope is not of infallible iudgement but may erre and fall into heresie as any other man may 32 This point is certaine enough to vs who haue cast off both him and his teaching for no other cause but this that we are assured he is Antichrist and his faith heresie But it may be shewed in another sort also that the Papists themselues may not denie it by making demōstration of his errors in such cases as they allow to be the truth Which they skilfully foreseeing haue lately inuented the distinction vsed here by the Iesuite that he may fall into heresie but he cannot teach it è cathedra that is by way of definition to offer it the vniuersall Church he may erre in his owne person but not as Pope to define and teach error The which is a sensles ridiculous shift though the desperatenesse of their cause haue put them to it For they think their Pope to be a publick person and his whole office to teach the Church wherupon his priuate errors as they cal them cannot but go with him into the chaire and Consistory For he that erreth in iudgement must of necessitie erre also in his determinations because no man can determine otherwise then he thinketh Neither is it likely that God will put him in trust with the faith of his Church that cannot guide his own For the rule must not only make straight that which is crooked but be straight it selfe Therefore if the Popes faith cannot direct himselfe much lesse shall it be able to preserue others Besides n Tom. 2. de sign eccl l. 18. c. vlt. Bozius saith He may be an hereticke yea write teach and preach heresie Which is all one as if he had said he may erre iudicially è cathedra because these three writing teaching or preaching are iudicial exercises of the chaire directed and reaching themselues to the Church for this speciall end to informe men Againe they haue erred in Church canons dispensations Decretals and matters defined by them in Councels therefore they haue erred è cathedra The consequence is proued o D. 19. in Canonicis Et si Romanorum because all these tend to the teaching of the Church and are the meanes whereby he publisheth his iudgement Of his dispensations Franciscus Victoria p Relect. 4. nu 6 saith The Pope in dispensing against the decrees of Councels and former Popes may erre and grieuously sinne Would it were so that we might doubt of this conclusion but we see dayly such large and dissolute dispensations proceed from the court of Rome to the ruine of small and great that the world is not able to beare them Thus Pius Quartus q Sess 8. can 3. sub Pio 4. decreed at Trent that it should be lawful for him to allow those degrees to marry together which God in Leuiticus had forbidden and to forbid those which God had allowed This was an hereticall decree è cathedra and according to it diuers Popes haue taught their people to marrie against the faith r Sum. Angel verbo Papa nu 1. Martin the fift allowed one to marry his owne sister germaine Another allowed K. Henrie the eight to marrie his brothers wife ſ Osor de gest Eman. l. 2. A third taught Emanuel the King of Portugall to marry two sisters Touching decrees t Alphon. adue heres l. 1. c. 4. Celestin ordained for example the mariage to be void when either of the parties fall into heresie u Sigeber chro an 768. 902. Sigon de Reg. Ital. l. 6. an 896. Baron tom 10. an 897. nu 6. Stephen the sixt decreed in a Councell that such as were ordained Bishops by Formosus his predecessor were not ordained lawfully because Formosus was an euill man This is plaine Donatisme x De consecr d. 4. A quodam Pope Nicolas decreed that to baptize onely in the name of Christ is good baptisme contrary to the decrees of y Ibid. Hi vero Gregorie and z Ib. Multi sunt Pelagius a 32. q. 7. Quod proposuisti Pope Gregorie decreed that a man might take another wife in case his wife were so diseased that she could not yeeld him the debt of mariage the which b Ib. §. Sed illud Ambr. saith Gratian is altogether contrary both to the sacred Canons and to the doctrine of the Apostles and Euangelists But what need we be curious in reckoning vp instances when it is a thing granted c D. 4. Si Papa that he may be found negligent of his owne and his brethrens saluation drawing innumerable people by troupes with himselfe to be damned in hell For doth not he erre perniciously enough that may thereby damne himselfe and others or were it possible he should do thus if Christ had priuiledged him as the Papists fancie 33 Moreouer it is granted by the Papists themselues that he may erre in faith not in manners or opinions onely For Occham d Q. 1 de potes sum Pont. c. 9. saith and sheweth that many things are contained in the Decretals which sauour of heresie And Almaine e Qu. in Vesper that the power of not erring in the faith is not alway in the Pope And I haue shewed out of Bozius that he may write and preach heresie and heresie is in matter of faith whereupon it followeth that his iudgement cannot be infallible when he cometh to proceed in determining because the true faith wherein he erreth is it that should rectifie the determination The which consequence f Relect. cont 3 q. 4. concl 4. arg 4. Doctor Stapleton granteth yeelding that if he erre in faith the whole Church also should with him be led into error and so the vnitie of faith should be vncertaine But granting this he denieth that he can erre in faith which is contrary to that which all others confesse and dayly experience demonstrateth 34 The last reason to shew he may erre euen when he teacheth the Church is this that there may be diuers instances giuen when the Church refused to heare him yea cast him out and deposed him as an hereticke which was needlesse if there had not bin a purpose in him to seduce the Church and danger lest his teaching should
haue done it This argument fowly troubleth our aduersaries and therefore they would faine out-face it by saluing such Popes as are touched from heresie But all in vaine for what saith g 4. d. 18. pro. 25 coâ—ol 2. Ouandus The which Popes though some Catholikes would faine cleare yet should they not denie as they do that they were heretickes seeing the Pope may erre at least as a priuate man Thus h Conc. Sinues apud Baron an 303. nu 89. Carranz in Marcellin Marcellinus committed idolatry and offered sacrifice to Iupiter Saturn Hercules the Pagan gods and was thereupon examined iudged and condemned by a Councell of 300. Bishops The which storie i Tom. 2. an 302 nu 102. Baronius confesseth was from the beginning beleeued with a generall consent and kept in the auncient martyrologues and breuiaries of the Romane Church k Athan. ep ad Solita Fascic temp an 353. Baron tom 3. an 357. n. 43.44 Liberius that was Pope about the yeare 350. fell into Arianisme subscribing to the vniust condemnation of Athanasius whereupon Athanasius fell from his communitie and himselfe as an obstinate hereticke was deposed and cast out of the Church l Anast Bibliot in Leone 2. Nilus de priâ—at pag. 23. Honorius the first that was Pope in the yeare 626. was a Monothelite hereticke holding that Christ had but one will and so withall but one nature for the which the Church condemned him in m Synod 6. act 4.12.13 Synod 7. act vlt. Synod 8. act 7. three generall Councels n See D Reyn. apolog thes nu 39 inde It is a world to see how the Papists striue to cleare this matter and cannot though they blush not in his defence to discredite all antiquitie yea to flie one in the face of another As Pighius o Hier. l. 4. c. 8. hauing taken great paines to discredite the storie p Pigh diatrib in ep ad lect a certaine learned man wished him to recant q Diatrib de act 6. Syn. whereupon he setteth afresh vpon the matter but Canus r Loc. lib. 6. c. vlt. asketh How can Pighius cleare him whom Psellus Tharasius Theodorus with his Councel at Ierusalem Epiphanius and Pope Adrian affirme to haue bene an hereticke But Å¿ An. 681. nu 31. Baronius turneth vpon Canus againe and t Quem voluissem sensibus potiùs Canum quà m nomine totus praeceps in ferenda de re tanta sententia descanting vpon his name shaketh him off as if he had bene a Protestant that I might a little by the way note the vnitie of Papists euen there where it were most conuenient they should agree 35 And of late dayes when they began first to broach this conceit of the Popes infallible iudgement it pleased God to check that fond opinion by sensible exaÌ„ples of some present Popes to teach them the vanitie thereof that if reason could not perswade them yet experience should conuince them or if they would beleeue none that had written he might be an hereticke yet they should see it with their owne eyes and then let them hold him the rule of faith at their perill u Theod. Nicmens de schism l. 3 c. 44. pag. 91. Antonin sum hist part 3. tit 22. c 5. § 3. For in the yeare 1408. in the Councell of Pisa consisting of a thousand Diuines and Lawyers they were faine to depose two Popes at once Gregory the 12. and Bennet the 13 the tenour of which depriuation calleth them notorious schismaticks obstinate maintainers of schisme heretickes departed from the faith scandalizing the whole Church vnworthy the Papacie cut off from the Church And whereas Bennet continued Pope still for all this x Conci Const sess 37. Anton. vbi supra c. 6. § 2. a second Councel holden at Constance deposed him againe and declared that he had no right to the Papacie commaunding all men to esteeme him as an hereticke and schismaticke y Sess 11. 12. The same Councell deposed also another Pope Iohn 23 where it was proued against him that he held and defended as his iudgement that there is no eternall life nor immortalitie of the soule nor resurrection of the dead z Sess 34. A while after the Councell of Basill deposed Eugenius the fourth declaring him to be a rebell against the sacred Canons a notorious disturber and scandalizer of the peace and vnitie of the Church a simonist a periured wretch incorrigible a schismaticke an obstinate hereticke Thus we see their owne selues in expresse termes lay to the Popes charge schisme heresie scandall breach of the Churches vnitie and for that cause depose him refuse to obey him and yet another while they will defend he cannot erre Christ hath giuen him infalliblenesse of iudgement and supremacy ouer all men all that wil be counted true Catholickes must submit themselues to him and the Protestants can haue no vnitie because they acknowledge not his authoritie Digression 29. Declaring that the Pope is not Saint Peters successor 36 This point is properly proued by shewing the difference between the Pope and Saint Peters faith For if the Pope be departed from that which Saint Peter taught then it will plainly appeare he is not his successor because true succession standeth in holding the same faith But I will not go this way to worke now because I haue touched it particularly in a Digr 22.23 other places and handle it generally throughout this booke and all our writings and doctrine and disputations tend to nothing else but to shew it 37 Next it is proued by this that as Ierome b Ad Euagr. saith and c D. 21. in Nouo the Popes owne canons graunt All Bishops succeed the Apostles For if all the Apostles were equall and all Bishops succeed them then what singular matter is there in the Bishop of Romes succession more then in the succession of others Or why should he be called Saint Peters successor more then others For as Marsilius d Defen part 2. c. 16. noteth They are all successors which in life and conuersation resemble them as e Mat. 12. vlt. Christ said They are my mother and my brethren which do the will of my father Besides if he were Saint Peters successor all the priuiledges giuen by Christ to Peter must be deriued to him as to preach the Gospell which some Popes haue not bene able to do and few of late will take the paines to do to worke miracles to be free from heresie to hold perfect the loue of Christ to indite Scripture which I thinke the Iesuite himselfe will not attribute to the Pope 38 But omitting these and such like reasons the principal thing I now desire to shew is that as loud as the Papists are with the Popes succession and although the triall of all papistrie depend vpon it yet is it but a humane constitution not onely because there is
him Secondly Christ saith Simon louest thou me more then these Why doth he examine him of his loue more then the rest but that he intended him more authoritie I answer to make him see his fault who hauing lately vndertooke more then all euen to die with him though all should forsake him yet when it came to triall performed lesse then any denying him thrise which none else did And possible also to let him know his sinne was pardoned x Luc. 7.47 because more is forgiuen to him that loueth more Thirdly he not onely examineth him of his loue but also thereby draweth out of him a feruent confession of it I answer this he did also in regard of his former sinne y Isid Pelusiot l. 1. Ep. 103. by a threefold confession to heale his threefold deniall and to assure his fellow disciples of his repentance and to shew by his example how deare the loue of Christ should be to them that meddle with feeding Christs flocke Fourthly he biddeth him Feed and feeding is Ruling with fulnesse of power I answer he biddeth him feed his sheepe and lambes which are the people and not the Apostles properly which proueth that feeding hath no such meaning Besides feeding signifieth ruling not euery way but in such maner as appertaineth to the persons that do feed And therefore in kings it is to rule with fulnesse of power but in Pastors with the word and discipline onely as appeareth by this that all Bishops and teachers are called z Eph 4.11 Pastors and bidden a Ier. 3.15 Ezec 34 Act. 20.28 1. Pet. 5.1 feede the flocke of Christ and yet no man thinketh they are made Popes thereby Lastly Peter is bidden Feed the sheepe the Apostles are a part of Christs sheep therefore he must feed them I answer this is granted but then feeding signifieth no more but edifying by word and example and so as Peter must feed the Apostles the Apostles must feed him againe by the same commandement of Christ b Marc. 16. that bade them preach the Gospell to euery creature as c Gal. 2. Paul fed him at Antioch by reproofe And whereas some vrge that the sheepe signifie the vniuersall Church because Christ saith not these are those sheepe in particular but my sheeepe in generall and so Peter is set ouer the vniuersall Church this is but a speculation for if the Church be strained into so wide a signification he could not feed it because he could feed no more then that part which was in his time or followed after him wherein the other Apostles fed in community with him and feeding was not Poping Thus we see that vnlesse the Papists may be allowed to racke the words of Scripture beyond all compasse of ordinary vnderstanding and bring to them the sence which they should fetch from them there is nothing in all the Bible sufficient to vphold any part of that wherein they are so confident § 37. So that this difference may be assigned betweene any sort of heretickes and the Romane Church that they are a companie not vnited among themselues by anie linke which is able to containe and continue them in the vnitie of faith whereas the Romane Church is as S. Cyprian speaketh Plebs sacerdoti adunata grex pastori suo adhaerens A people conioyned to their priest and a flocke cleauing to their chiefe Pastor Whom whilest it heareth as it is bound to do it is vnpossible but it should retaine vnitie of faith Like contrarie according to the saying of the same S. Cyprian lib. 1. epist 5. ad Cornel. contra Haeret. Non aliunde haereses obortae sunt aut nata schismata quà m inde quòd Sacerdoti non obtemperatur nec vnus in Ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos vnus iudex vice Christi cogitatur Nor from any other roote haue heresies and schismes sprong vp but from this that men do not obey the priest of God neither do they consider how that in the Church there is one Priest and one iudge for the time in stead of Christ The Answer 1 How well the Romane Church is linked together I haue said in the former section and therefore if the Iesuit will assigne a difference betweene it and heretickes which will be the same that is betweene fish and herrings he must do it by somthing else then by their vnitie wherunto Saint Cyprian giueth no testimony in the words alledged but that it pleased the Iesuite thereby to impose vpon his ignorant reader For first he speaketh not in any of both places concerning the Church of Rome but of euery part of the Church whersoeuer saith It is a company adhering to their Pastour c. Next by this one Pastor and iudge whereto the Church adhereth he meaneth not the Bishop of Rome ouer all the world for himselfe dissented from him in the cause of appeales and rebaptization but euery Bishop in his owne circuit Thirdly supposing he had conceited the Pope and by these words immediatly meant him yet what is that to the Pope now who is degenerate into another creature then at that time he was whereby it cometh to passe that many good things might be said of him then that cannot now and of his Church then which since that time are perished 2 But the truth is that saying the Church is a people cleauing to their Priest he meaneth it not of al Gods Church cleauing to the Pope but of euery particular Church obeying their Pastour according to Saint Pauls admonition a Heb. 13.17 Obey and submit your selues to such as haue the ouersight of you And the want hereof he saith is the roote of schisme not the dissenting from the Pope And this is proued to be his meaning because in b Lib. 4. Ep. 9. ad Florent another Epistle he hath the same words applying them to himselfe and complaining thereby that some had vnderhand refused him and communicated with others For the Nouatians at Carthage in a schisme had made them a Bishop of their owne and written to the Church of Rome falsly that he was lawfully elected the which being against the custome and peace of the Church moued him to vrge as you see the vnitie of one Bishop and to defend the Church-gouernment of that time c Hiero. comment in Tit c. 1. Chrysost hom 1 ad Philipp which was to haue but one Bishop in one citie Hence proceed his words touching euery Bishop in his owne place as the Iesuite hath alledged them Whereby you see how wel he proueth the vnitie of his Church and authoritie of his Pope euen as well as if a man should make that proper to the Bishop of Rome and his Church which appertaineth to euery Bishop and euery Church and expound that of the supremacie which importeth no more but ordinary gouernment vsed by Pastors in their owne charge This kinde of disputing is called inclosing of commons § 38. Secondly the Protestants Church is
not holy because not onely most of their men be euidently more wicked then in old time before their coming as those can tell that haue seene both and is confessed by Luther himselfe who in Postill super Euangel Dom. primae Aduentus saith thus Sunt nunc homines magis vindictae cupidi magis auari magis ab omni misericordia remoti magis immodesti indisciplinati multoque deteriores quà m fuerunt in Papatu Men are now more reuengefull more couetous more vnmercifull more immodest and vnruly and much worse then when they were Papists The like testimonie is giuen by Smidelinus another of their Doctors Conc. 4. super cap. 21. Lucae which for breuitie I omit The Answer 1 For answer to this the Protestants haue two things to say First that it is false their men be more wicked then the Papists in old time were the which is proued by comparing them together and let that comparison giue the triall in the next Digression And whereas the Iesuite saith They can tell that haue seene both I answer this is true and therefore let vs referre our selues to their reports which by and by shal be set downe And in the meane time it is probable the Papists in old time were such as they be now which if they were I am contented our liues be layed together and compared For the present experience that we haue this day in England touching Papists and their conuersations will acquit vs though their outrage and confusion be such and haue wrought vs that sorow that we can take small pleasure in recounting it Their treasons against the State more then montâ—â—us practising the very desolation of the kingdome by strange conspiracies vnnaturall inuasions barbarous murders vnutterable mischiefes we make account were wickednesse enough to depriue them of the name and reputation of holinesse but this is not all they that liue in these parts among people popishly addicted liue in the middest of Sodome And let it be obserued if all disorders be not rifest in those parts among vs where the people is most Pope-holy other parishes where the Gospell hath bene taught being reduced to ciuilitie and the rest that swarme with Priests and Recusants remaining sauage and barbarous that no Christian man may endure their manners And for mine owne part hauing spent much of my time among them this I haue found that in all excesse of sinne Papists haue bene the ringleaders in riotous companies in drunken meetings in seditious assemblies and practises in profaning the Sabboth in quarels and braules in stage-playes greenes ales and all heathenish customes the common people of that sort generally buried in sinne swearing more then can be expressed vncleannesse drunkennesse perfidiousnesse vile and odious their families vntaught and dissolute their behauiour fierce and full of all contumely iniurie inhumanitie full of slanderous reports wilde lookes and all vnchristian vsage towards any not of their owne religion that I dare be bold to say we may all cast our caps at them for atheisme and all that naught is the which I would not haue touched because some wil mislike it but that the Iesuits words They can tell that haue seene both vrge me to it and hauing seen it with mine owne eyes and smarted a long time vnder it I thought it would be to the glory of God and confusion of Papistrie to let the truth be knowne and to admonish the Priests lurking in the countrey if they will needs make the world Romane Catholicke yet that they teach it more ciuilitie withall 2 His next reason to proue our Church vnholy is the confession of Luther and Smideline And do not the Prophets and Apostles complaine as much against the Church in their times which yet was the true Church of God What age or people or Church was euer yet so holy but the preachers thereof found matter of reproofe in it I but Luther saith Men are now much worse then when they were Papists he saith so indeed but he addeth withall that the cause hereof is for that men receiue not the doctrine of Christ therefore God in his anger giueth them vp to their owne sinnes wherein he chargeth not the true beleeuers of our faith but onely such hypocrites as made a shew without sinceritie The very like complaint is in Chrysostome of the Church in his time But now saith a Op. impers in Math. hom 49. he Christians are become either such as heretickes and Pagans be or worse yea and their conuersation of life though it be in schisme is with more continencie from sinne then among the Christians Here Chrysostome saith the Christians are worse then Pagans as Luther saith they are worse then Papists and yet the Iesuite dareth not conclude that therefore the Pagans and not the Christians were the true Church For hypocrites are alway mingled with the Saints as chaffe is with the wheate and by their sinne bring a shew of euill vpon the whole Church and is imputed vnto it But Saint Augustine answereth this obiection better then I can which if our aduersaries would marke this complaint of our vnholinesse were soone at an end And now b Epist 161. saith he the faults of euill men are cast in our teeth not ours neither but other mens and they also in part vnknowne the which if we did see to be true and present before our eyes and sparing the cockle for the wheate sake did tolerate in regard of vnitie he would thinke vs not onely worthy of no reproofe but of great praise And Ierome is of minde the sinnes of the Church are no vantage to heretickes thus he saith c Ep. 78. Are you therefore no heretickes if some vpon your report haue thought vs sinners The same thing we answer the Papists 3 Secondly we say that if all were true which is obiected and we as bad as the Iesuite conceiteth yet were not this sufficient to proue vs the false Church For what d De praescrip saith Tertullian Do men vse to try the faith by the persons or the persons by the faith And Saint Augustine hath a whole e Epist 137. Epistle written of purpose to confute them that laboured to make the Church odious by obiecting the faults of such as liued therein In that Epâ—stle he hath these words Obiect nothing against heretickes but onely that they are not Catholicke lest ye be like vnto them who hauing nothing wherewithall to defend their cause fall to gathering vp the faults of men that when they cannot charge the truth it selfe they may yet bring into hatred those that preach it And what Catholicke man f Apol. contra Ruâ—fin l. 3. saith Ierome in the disputation of sects did euer obiect the faults of life against his aduersary with whom he disputed Yea the Papists themselues being pinched with this kinde of reasoning and tasting the inconuenience thereof by reason their owne liues are worse then any begin to disclaime it that you may see
the Iesuite holdeth you occupied with an argument that himselfe knoweth is nothing worth D. Harding g Confut. apol part 6. pag. 291. saith You know it is no good argument à moribus ad doctrinam who would not hisse and trample you out of schooles if ye make this argument The Papists liues be faultie ergo their teaching is false The Iesuite therefore must be hist at by Hardings censure Staphylus h Apolo part 1. saith Our faith must not be pinned to the life of the Clergie or preachers c. Bellarmine i De grat lib. arbit l. 5. c. 10. §. Hoc posito saith It is certaine the doctrine which men teach vs cannot be knowne by their works because their inward workes are not seene and their outward workes are common to both sides k Annal. tom 7. 2 n. 526. n. 58. Baronius calleth them an ignorant companie that measure Catholicke faith not by the sacred Scriptures which they know not but by the example of life Thus we see the Papists are vnwilling we should iudge of their faith by their liues and yet how peremptorie they are with vs about ours and how busie in smattering of our faults that will admit no disaduantage by their owne Besides they haue a position among them l Bellar. de Eccles mil. l. 3. c. 2. that no inward vertue is required to make one a part of the true Church but only the external profession of faith The which being so then what necessitie is there of holinesse either inward or outward to proue that a people are the true Church for they may be so without it if they do but professe it which a wicked person can do Digression 31. Containing many complaints made by the Papists themselues against their owne Church and people whereby it appeareth their liues are worse then can be said of the Protestants 4 But because they are m 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Callistrat diuis in stat Narcissi Narcissus like so besotted with their owne beautie and the Iesuite will needs haue it tryed whether Papists or Protestants be of better life I am content it be a match and the comparison be made vpon condition that what I produce be alway remembred to be their owne confession not my report and therefore remaine with the Reader for a cooling card to still the Pharisee next time he cometh into the temple with n Luc. 18.11 God I thanke thee I am not like other men and ruffleth among his poore brethren o Esa 65.5 with stand apart come not nie me for I am holier then thou And out of question vpon what part of their Church soeuer we looke there is no cause why they should boast themselues against vs. Of their Popes and what Saints they haue bene I shall haue fiâ—ter occasion to speake p Digr 54. below Touching their Monkes and religious persons I referre my selfe likewise to q Digr 45. another place Concerning the people Ferus r In 1. Ioh. c. 2. saith that in their Church abuses of all sorts haue preuailed with diuers superstitions and euill manners euen to the highest degree And saith he the God of this world Mammon and Ambition hath so blinded our eyes that we cannot so much as see so great euils in our Church Not denying as the Iesuite doth the same vnholinesse to be among themselues that we are charged with but lamenting that such as he is haue no eyes to see it Niemensis a man in his time attending on the Pope Å¿ Per vim stulta parens quasi vipera deperis omnes Tu portentorum locus es conformis eorum Cum Nilo pottenta pari nutris crocodilos Iam cum portentis reor exterminia sentis Si quid in his possem facereÌ„ sterilescere matreÌ„ Theod. à Niem de schismat l. 3. c. 41. saith Rome was a place of monsters yea like Nilus breeding monsters and nourishing Crocodiles that it were to be wished it were more barren in yeelding such fruite of Vipers And because the Iesuite alledged somewhat against vs out of Luthers sermons I will quit him againe with another sermon for Cornelius Mus the Bishop of Bitonto thus preached some threescore yeares since in Saint Laurence Church in Rome t Concio euaÌ„g de Domin fest tom 1. fer 4 cinerum part 3. pag. 242. O my best beloued Rome if euer it stood any citie in hand to hasten her conuersion to God thou hast need to giue example to all other cities of this conuersion Thou which art wholly turned away ouerthrowne and peruerted Turned away by thine owne negligence ouerthrowne by the deceit of Satan and peruerted by thine old custome of sinning Seest thou not wretched citie how thou art become a stewes of lechery a fornace of couetousnes a hell of all other mortall sins Seest thou not how euery state and degree of men and euery order this feast time of Bacchus is departed from God and made a prey to the diuell They haue striuen among theÌ„selues who of all men shal be the worst in superfluous expences in dishonest attire in filthy words and mischieuous deeds Alas also religious men are become dissolute children are set to schoole to a thousand vices yong men are vnbridled virgins haue cast offshame Priests their gownes and Monkes their cowles wise men are become fooles and old men children To the same effect he also preached u Orat in Conc. Trid. in 3. Dom. Aduent Conci tom 3. at the Councell of Trent With what monsters of filthinesse with what sinks of vncleannesse with what pestiferous contagion is not both Priest and people defiled I make your selues iudges and begin at the sanctuary of God and see if there be any shamefastnesse any chastitie any hope or helpe for honest life if there be not vnbridled lust notorious boldnesse incredible wickednesse Edification is turned into destruction examples into offences custome to corruption regard of lawes to contempt thereof seueritie to slacknesse mercie to impunitie pietie to hypocrisie preaching to contention solemne dayes to filthy marts and that which is most vnhappie the sauour of life to the sauor of death Would God they were not fallen with one consent from religion to superstition from faith to infidelitie from Christ to Antichrist from God to Epicurisme saying with a wicked heart and shamelesse face There is no God The sacred name of Iesus Christ is made a iest and fable among the Iewes and Pagans by reason of vs whose wickednes with a shamefull report is bruted ouer all the world Thus we see how easie a matter it is to charge our aduersaries with sinne if we would walke that course and that euery iot of that we say of their peoples brutishnes is confirmed by their owne words 5 And touching their Clergie there is as much to be said to better purpose because being the best part of the Church the holinesse must be in them or no
what say you to forty thousand yeares of pardon Pope Sixtus the fourth granted it to whosoeuer will say a prayer of his making not fiue aboue fortie words long that his Catholickes might not complaine the Protestants satisfaction was easier then theirs And there is another prayer somewhat longer which Saint Bernard vpon a time saying before the Rood so pleased the said Rood that bowing it selfe it embraced him in his armes being belike of the same good nature that the Rood of Naples was f Anton. Chro. part 3. tit 23. c. 7. § 11. p. 206. which spake so kindly to Thomas Aquin or of the same mettal that the crucifixe was of g Sibi or anti crucifixi imaginem inclinare caput aspexit Baron annal to 11. an 1051. nu 1. which nodded his head to the monke Gualbertus Now such a praier as this that like h Dictus Amphion Thebanae conditor vrbis Saxa mouere sono testudinio prece blanda Ducere quò vellet Horat. art Poet. Amphions harpe could make stones moue by all likelihood would pierce further then the straightest satisfaction that could be taught Or if the Protestants haue an easier way yet at last they must giue place to one peculiar kinde of deuotion throughly plied in our country which is to haue the armes of Christs passion the crosse nailes whip lance heart and hands of Christ for example painted and them deuoutly to worship For this kind of satisfaction hath wonderfull priuiledges granted it by one and thirtie Popes and an hundred twentie eight Bishops The first Pope granting three yeares pardon to them that vse it the other thirty adding euery one a hundred dayes more and each Bishop fortie 36 And so I conclude that the premises considered our aduersaries haue no cause to disgrace the Protestants with their penance or any longer to raile vpon them for putting it away for as much as their owne doctors haue spoken so coldly and vncertainly thereof and contrary one to another and allowed such qualifications by contrition pardons as make it a thousand times easier then an hypocrites repentance Which they would neuer haue done being warie and wise but that they thought in their conscience the repentance taught in our Church to be the truth and their penance a discipline of their owne inuentioÌ„ And so froÌ„ henceforward we wil take their angrie words about this matter as spoken in zeale of their cause and iealousie of their pardons but neuer thinke they meane in good earnest to condemne vs thereby though they speake somewhat rigorously for feare of the worst lest their people should suspect them and buy no more pardons Digression 40. Wherein the doctrine of iustification by faith onely is expounded and defended 37 The ninth point whereof he accuseth vs is for teaching that by onely faith our sinnes be not imputed to vs the which we teach indeed or rather haue learned of him that teacheth all truth the Spirit of God who i Psal 32.1 Rom. 4.6 saith Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiuen and whose sinne is couered blessed is the man to whom the Lord imputeth no sinne Now I neuer knew but k Sixt. Senens biblioth l. 6. annot 216. it was alwayes lawfull for Catholick men to vse the Catholicke phrase of the Scripture and speake as it doth For to say they are not imputed and by faith onely they are not imputed is all one because the not imputing of sinne is a mercie of God l Nazian orat in sanct bapt whereby he ascribeth it not to vs nor deputeth it to condemnation but as if we had neuer done it he forgiueth it and esteemeth vs no sinners The which mercy being in God alone supposeth somewhat on our behalfe that may receiue it which can be nothing but faith alone the Scripture saying m Gal 3.14 We receiue the promise of the spirit by faith and n Rom. 4.11 righteousnesse is imputed to all them that beleeue as o V. 3. Gen. 15.6 Abraham beleeued and it was imputed to him for righteousnesse The which our exposition making faith alone the instrument and not penance or workes if our aduersaries mislike then let them hearken what some of the learnedst among themselues haue written Forsomuch p 4. d. 15. q. 1. saith Bonauenture as man was not able to satisfie for so great offence therefore God gaue him a mediator who should satisfie for it whence it cometh to passe that by onely faith in his pâ—ssion all the fault is remitted and without his faith no man is iustified And q In Ioh. 19. â— 30 Ferus Our saluation is consummate not fully but in hope by reason maÌ„ beginneth to be iustified healed so that whilest he is iustified the rest of his sin remaining in his flesh through Christ is not imputed to him And r Antididagm Colonienf tit de Iustif hom pag. 29. Gropper By faith we are iustified as by the apprehensiue cause that faith whereby without doubting we firmly beleeue that hauing true repentance our sins are forgiuen vs for Christ whereof notwithstanding it behoueth vs by faith to haue the inward testimonie of the holy Ghost Whereby we see that iustification or not imputation of sin by faith onely is good diuinitie among our aduersaries themselues 38 But because either through ignorance or malice it is misreported to the people who are made beleeue that thereby we exclude the necessitie of a godly life therefore I will briefly expound the meaning of this proposition By faith onely we are iustified Wherein there are three termes the first is iustification and thereby we meane Gods acceptation of a sinner to grace and glorie For man being guiltie of the breach of Gods law and so subiect to the penaltie thereof which is condemnation cannot be restored againe vnlesse he bring a righteousnesse to satisfie this law againe that is to say which may answer both the obedience that it requireth and the punishment that it inflicteth The reason hereof is because the law being part of Gods will and being giuen to man out of the iustice of God must take his effect else God should leaue his iustice vnsatisfied and depart from his nature Å¿ Mat. 5 18. which is vnpossible This righteousnesse we affirme to be not our owne inherent iustice but the obedience of Christ alone whereby he fulfilled the whole law most perfectly for vs. We denie not but euery seruant of God hath in him true sanctification and holinesse enabling him to repentance satisfaction faith hope and charitie but we denie these or any of them to be the iustice whereby the bond of Gods law is answered and we appeare righteous before Gods iudgement seate partly because they are vnperfect and partly for that we do them not by our owne strength But the very thing that maketh vs accepted as iust is the obedience of Christ whereby he fulfilled the law and satisfied the punishment in his life and
workes good or euill that God foresaw he should do he is deceiued likewise and the former difficulties return vpon him For the most iudicious and learned in the Church of Rome are of the same minde Touching election there are e Magist 1. d. 41 ibi Occham Aâ—im Camerac Capreol Dur. Mayro alij Bell. de gr lib. arb l. 2. c. 10. Valent. tom 1. p. 364. Tolet. in Rom. 9. few but grant it is of the free mercie of God without any respect to our merits f Tract de Praedest l. 1 p. 38. And Catharinus saith the contrarie is Pelagianisme and deserueth to be hissed at Touching reprobation the opinion is more currant that it should passe vpon the foresight of sinne which God beheld in the wicked But this in reprobation negatiue especially is also crossed by the g Altisio l. 1. c. 9 qu. 1. 2. Arim. Dur. Camerac Capreol vbi supra Tho. contra Gentil l. 3. c. 161. 163. lect 2. in Rom. 9 chiefest Schoolmen that euer writ and h Bell. vbi supra c 16. Valent. tom 1. p. 404. Tolet. vbi supra the Iesuites themselues shrinke from it Ariminensis saith No man is reprobated because of the euill vse of his freewill or finall resistance of grace which God foresaw in him i Part. 1. q 23. art 5. Dominus Bannes confuteth them that hold otherwise and saith that considering the reprobate absolutely there can no cause or reason of their reprobation be giuen on their own behalfe But all the effects of reprobation are ordinated to this one end to shew the iustice of God and his mercie towards the elect Our aduersaries therefore communicating with vs in our doctrine touching the cause of reprobation are as guiltie of making men carelesse thereby as we 50 But I wonder most what should driue this Iesuite to say we make God the authour of sinne I know he might heare and reade the imputation laid vpon vs by k Posseuin bib select l. 8. c. 11. Bellar. de amis grat l. 2. c. 3. the Iesuites but it is very strange any man of vnderstanding should not discerne the foolery For I chalenge any man that listeth to trie it let him shew if he can that the Church of England holdeth any more touching this matter then the Papists themselues haue expresly written Occham saith l 2. q. 5. lit k. God is immediatly the first cause of all things produced by the second causes But of things euill he is the mediate cause in that he produceth and preserueth the creature that is the mediate cause of euill And m 3. q. 12. lit yy againe if we speake of the sinnes of commission not onely the will of the creature is the efficient cause of euery such act but euen God himselfe who immediatly causeth euery act And if you reply that then God should sinne by causing an act of such deformitie as the will of the creature sinnes when it causeth such an act I answer that God is debter to no man and therefore he is bound neither to cause that act nor the contrary nor yet not to cause it but the will of the creature by Gods law is bound not to cause the act and so consequently sinnes by doing it To the very same effect writeth n 2. d. 34. q. 1. art 3. Gregorius Ariminensis o Pag. 126. ad 7. addeth further that some Doctors of his time affirmed that albeit the sinfull act were of God yet the sinne was not which saying saith he may haue a good sence not by conceiuing the deformitie to be any thing distinct from the act which is not caused of God but vnderstanding that although the sinfull act be of God yet as it is sinfull it is not of God who doth nothing against that which right reason iudgeth should be done Cardinall Cameracensis p 1. q. 13. art 1. pag. 193. saith Many solemne Doctors confesse that God is the cause of sinne and that he can cause and will sinne Medina q Bartol Med. in 1 2 q 93. art 6. pag. 496. saith A sinner when he sinneth doth against the will and law of God in one sence and in another not He doth indeed against his signified will and against his precepts and prohibitions which by a figuratiue speech are called his will but against the will of his good pleasure he doth not nor against the effâ—ctuall ordination of God In the same manner r Mayr 2 d. 43. q 1. Duran 2. d. 37. q. 1 1. d. 46. q 2. Altisioâ— l. 2. p. 79. Feliâ— in decal pag. 69 Tâ—o in 9. Rom. write others and such as are busiest in accusing Luther and Caluin touching this point yet by strength of argument and euidence of the Scriptures are driuen to say Å¿ Bann 1. part q. 49. art 2. That no sinne falleth out beside the will and intention of God t Bell. de amiss grat l 2. c. 13. but that by a figure he commandeth it and exciteth men vnto it as a huntsman setteth the dog vpon a hare by letting go the slip that held the dogge God therefore not onely permitteth the wicked to do many euils neither doth he onely forsake the godly that they may be constrained to suffer the things done against them by the wicked but he also ouerseeth their euill wils and ruleth and gouerneth them and boweth and bendeth them by working inuisibly in them And not onely inclineth euill wils to one euill rather then another by permitting them to be caried into one euill and not permitting them to be caried into another but also positiuely he bendeth them by inclining them to one euill and turning them from another occasionally and morally c. Let our aduersaries looke well into these speeches and they shall finde we say in effect no more and if they will expound ours as gently as they do their owne there will appeare no difference 51 For we hold first in generall that u Ps 5.4 Habb 1.13 â—â—h 3 5. Zach 8.17 eccl 7 31. lac 1.13 God is not the author of sinne but the diuell and mans owne corrupt will the contrary whereof we defy as blasphemy Next more particularly we beleeue that God willeth nothing that is formally sin as he willeth that which is good but hateth it raâ—her whence it followeth that he inspireth it into no man neither doth he create any corruption in our will which was not there before but forbiddeth it absolutely x Esa 30.21 Rom. 2.15 within vs by the light of his Spirit y Deut. 27.26 without vs by the commandement and the first entrance of sinne into the world and the continuance of it in the world was by the voluntary action of mans will corrupting it selfe God infusing no euill into it That which he doth about and concerning sinne are three actions First as the vniuersall cause of all things z Act. 17.28 he sustaineth
touching Gregorie and Bede may well be inlarged to many things written of Anthonie * As that which Gregorie Nyssen writeth touching Thaumaturgus how the virgin Maerie Saint Iohn came down from heauen to him and taught him his Creed Nyssen orat de vit Greg. Thau and others of elder time though the men that writ them if the bookes be theirs whose titles they beare were godly men For is it likely to be true that Å¿ Vit. Pauli Ierome writeth how Anthonie trauelling in the wildernesse to seeke out Paul the hermite met with a Centaure halfe a man and halfe a horse who spake to him and shewed him the way And by and by when the Centaure was gone meeteth him another monster like a Satyre with a hooke nose and hornes on his head the lower part of his bodie like a Goat offering him a branch of palme whom Anthonie asking who he was he answered I am a mortall creature an inhabitant of the wildernesse such a one as the Gentiles deluded with error call Satyres and I come as an Embassadour from my flocke to beseech you to pray to God for vs whom we know to be come for the saluation of the world whose sound is gone through out the earth If the Iesuit thinke it reason we beleeue this for it is a part of Saint Anthonies miracles and that such monsters of beasts should be and beleeue in Christ let vs play the good fellowes and beleeue all the rest too t Baron an 1028. n. 5. that the virgin Marie came from heauen to visit Saint Fulbert when he was sicke and gaue him her breasts to sucke u Vit. Bern. l. 1. c. 13. and that she visited Bernard likewise in his sicknesse being attended with Saint Laurence and Benedict And that Saint Francis x Lib. confor Anton. 3. part tit 24. c. 2. §. 8. Boz de sign l. 15. c. 3. had the fiue wounds of Christ made in his flesh by an Angell with the nailes sticking therein and continually bleeding till his dying day That he vsed to ride in the ayre in a fierie chariot talking with Christ and Marie and Iohn and accompanied with innumerable Angels That the image of the crucifix vsed to speak to him Francis go repaire my house y Boz de sign l. 14. c 3. That he had a cade Lambe which vsed to go to masse and would dulie kneele downe and adore at the eleuation z Gold Leg. That he vsed to preach to birds instruct them which heard him with great deuotion a Anton. part â—â—â—t 23. c. 1. §. 1. And that a little afore Frier Dominicke was borne there were found two Images in a Church at Venice the one of Dominick the other of S. Paul on Pauls image was written By this man you may come to Christ on Dominicks But by this man you may do it easilier because Pauls doctrine led but to faith and the obseruation of the commandements but Dominicke taught the obseruing of Councels which is the easier way b Boz vbi supr Bellarm. That Antony of Padua conuerted an hereticke by making his horse adore the hoast c Boz ib. pa. 129 And that a certain deuout woman to cure her Bees of the murren and to make them fruitfull put a consecrated hoast into the hiue and when after a time she took it vp she not only found a miraculous increase but saw also that the bees had built a chappel in the hiue with an altar and windows and doores and a steeple with bels and that the Bees had layd the hoast vpon the altar and with a heauenly noise flew about it and sung their Canonicall houres and kept watch by night as Monks vse to do in their cloisters These and others of the same straine are part of the miracles whereby the holinesse of the Romane Saints is testified and it wil not serue the turne to reply these are the basest part which is now put out of the stories or that the Church alloweth them not or that there is better stuffe then this for this as vile as it is hath the same authors that the other hath and in the dayes of Popery was read and preached publickly to the people and at this day is alledged by our aduersaries in their books against vs and remaine in the stories as before And no doubt they possesse the mindes of the vulgar as much as euer they did who among them is of the same mind that Canus d Loc. pag. 336. saith he knew a Priest of who was fully perswaded that nothing could be false that was once put in print Yea e Brist mot 6. they shame not to write and our countreymen beleeue it because it is printed that these very miracles of Thomas Aquinas Thomas Becket Bernard Francis Dominick and the rest cannot be checked though Canus checked them afore Bristo was hatched No man being able to put any difference betweene the miracles of Christ with his Apostles and of these men Polybius a heathen author f Hist l. 16. mentioning in his story some such like wonders as these Legend miracles are which the Gentiles beleeued saith they seemed to him altogether childish absurd and impossible yet notwithstanding saith he as long as they nourish in the vulgar pietie toward the gods the writers must be pardoned though they speake monsters This belike is the policie of the Church of Rome to coine lies for religion as I noted out of Canus and to beare with monsters of miracles for pieties sake 9 But leauing them to do with their owne what they wil let the discreet reader now remember where the cause sticketh namely at the certaintie and credit of the Legend miracles For other they haue none which they can properly challenge and these are grounded on such authoritie as not onely shameth it selfe but also is discredited by the learnedst among themselues And so stil for any thing our aduersaries can alledge the Protestants faith is better proued by the consent thereof with the Scriptures then their aduersaries is by the miracles of Antonie and Francis Digress 45. Touching Monkes and religious orders holden among the Papists and which they say we haue reiected and forsaken 10 First our aduersaries are bound to proue that the law of God and course of true religion bindeth vs to follow these professions for if some priuate men in the Primitiue Church began such a thing without commandement onely vpon their owne voluntary libertie it is lawfull for vs by the same libertie to leaue it againe Next let them shew if they can that pouertie chastitie and obedience as they define them are counsels of such perfectioÌ„ that they cannot be fulfilled as much as God requireth but by going to a Cloister and turning Frier or that a man vnder the pretence of following such counsels may lawfully forsake his parents and calling wherein God hath placed him to liue in an Abbey professing a rule deuised by
mot 45. saith The truth is that some there haue bene in many ages in some points of the Protestants opinion in so much that scarce any peece or article there is of our whole faith but by one or other first or last it hath bene called in question and that with such liking for the time that they haue all in a manner drawne after them great heards of followers I know Bristo meaneth they were hereticks that in all ages did this but that can he neuer proue yet in the meane time belike he saw some that were of the Protestants faith before of late The second is Reynerius that liued three hundred yeares ago who discoursing of the Waldenses a people for substance of the Protestants religion e Refert Illyric catal tom 2. p. 543. saith They are in all the cities of Lombardy and Prouince and other countries and kingdomes They haue many followers and dispute publickely we haue numbred fortie Churches of theirs and ten schooles in Parish No sect hath continued so long some say it hath bene since the time of Syluester some since the Apostles and there is almost no country wherein it spreadeth not They haue great shew of pietie liuing vprightly before men and beleeuing all things aright concerning God and all the articles in the Creed onely they hate and blaspheme the Church of Rome c. In this testimonie of Reynerius you may see our Church was Catholicke both in place and persons and time and doctrine and that the Church of Rome was resisted and the religion thereof refused afore Luther The true cause why it was not so frequent and publicke as now it is either in place or persons was the persecution of the Pope and the generall corruption of the Papacie which as a leprosie infected and as a mist obscured welnigh all places and persons that sometimes not the true beleeuers themselues such I meane as are come to our knowledge were void of error in euery point though they firmly held the foundatiō as these Waldenses did And if it pleased God in processe of time to giue more libertie to the persons and more puritie to the doctrine what iust occasion is this to say we are not all one Church when the true faith of Christ is not alwayes alike visibly and purely professed Minutius Felix f Octau pa. 401. saith Why are we vnthankfull and why enuie we if the truth of God hath grown ripe in our age let vs enioy our good and let superstition be bridled and wickednes expiated and true religion maintained 2 The next point that our Church is but in few places of Christendome is both false and impertinent First impertinent for if it were so yet were it no hindrance to the note of vniuersalitie For Gods Church vnder the law was shut vp within the narrow bounds of Iudaea and g Digr 17. nu 31 the Papists say theirs in the dayes of their supposed Antichrist shall be openly seene but in few places and h Dried dogm eccl l. 4. c. 2 par 2. Bellar. not eccl c. 7. confesse it is not required to the vniuersalitie of the Church that of necessitie there be at all times in euery countrey some beleeuers it sufficeth if there be successiuely Whence it followeth that if only one prouince did retaine the true faith yet should it truly and properly be called the Catholicke Church as long as it might be shewed that it were the same which it was at other times in other places of the world the which we can shew of our Church how small soeuer the compasse thereof may fall out to be at some time Next it is false for there is no place in Christendome but there are some of our religion therein as not onely experience but our aduersaries owne reports beare witnesse wherein they i Boz sign eccl l. 19. c. 1. Bell. de Rom. Pont. praefat li. 3. c. 21. item de verb. Dei praefat habit in Gymn Rom. complaine how our heresie so heretickes style it possesseth many and large prouinces England Scotland Denmark Norwey Sweden Germanie Pole Boheme Hungary Prussia Lituania Liuonia whereto they may adde France and the Low countries yea Italy and Spaine it selfe where the barbarous Inquisition dayly findeth the profession of our religion euen at their doores 3 The third point that our Church is not Catholick in doctrine neither is as ill proued as the former For negatiue doctrine so farre as it is euil standeth not in denying some points which the fathers held but in denying that which they held according to the Scriptures and which they taught and maintained to be certain and necessary matter of faith deliuered in the Scriptures wherein neither we nor the Centuries euer refused them Neither haue we denied any one point which they held in all ages for the truth as our aduersaries haue For though the Centuries reiect this and that which the Father 's held yet they deny neither this nor that which was holden for the truth in all ages as appeareth by their historie wherein they shew the succession of our faith in all ages and note how it was many times corrupted and mistaken euen by some of the ancient Fathers which is all for substance that the Magdeburgenses can be charged with wherein they haue neither denied the doctrine of the Catholicke Church nor offered the Fathers any wrong to say they had some errors as all men haue and themselues confesse which gaue occasion to others to erre likewise which errors the Centuries sometimes more then was cause noting they did not thereby notwithstanding accuse the whole Church of error because euery thing was not the Churches doctrine that some particular men therein held and what they noted of some particular Fathers must not be stretched to be meant against them all as their censuring somtimes ouermuch of many together for some things written against the truth must not be expounded to be the deniall of all they held beside for if it be and the Centuries be thus censured let this Iesuite say directly without shrinking why doth k Cathar tract de concep virg Suar. to 2. disp 3 sect 6. the Church of Rome hold the virgin Marie was conceiued without sinne l Capreol 3. d. 3. Ban. par 1. p. 75. Paul Cortes in sent which all the Fathers with one consent deny Let them looke my demaund in the face that thinke it heresie to deny the Fathers yea all the fathers consenting in one Digression 47. Of the authoritie of the ancient Fathers in matters of our faith and religion Wherein it is shewed what we ascribe to them and how farre forth we depend vpon them And the practise of our aduersaries in contemning eluding and refusing both them and their owne writers is plainly discouered 4 But this is a point that must be further looked into and not suffered to passe away thus Our aduersaries neuer make an end of boasting of the Fathers and by
since Christ till now without interruption 2 Gregory of Valenza teaching that it is one property of the Church to be alway visible b Tom. 3. pag. 142. saith this troubleth vs exceedingly in as much as we are not able to shew any company of people which in times past was known in the world to hold that form of doctrine and religion that now we haue brought in And I haue obserued in all my acquaintance with persons affected to Popery in this country where I dwell that they obiect nothing against vs more willingly then this And therefore I will answer it fully and directly And touching the time immediatly after Christ and so forward til 800. yeares were ended I name the Primitiue Church and the other Churches throughout the world professing the faith of Christ and affirme that they were of our religioÌ„ though some corruptions especially laterward came in withall And if our aduersaries deny this we offer to make the triall by the new Testament and writings of all the said ages successiuely out of which we will shew that our faith is the same which the Apostles preached and the fathers for al that time beleeued whatsoeuer came in beside was resisted and disallowed all the difficultie is touching the ages following til Luthers time And we say that all that time also in euery age successiuely there was a Church of our religion Our aduersaries bid vs shew it and name the place and persons whereto I answer two things That touching the place the Church of Rome it selfe was it For in euery part thereof there were some that held our faith and that which was called the Church of Rome was but a contagion outwardly cleauing to it and by reason of the multitude preuailing against it in a sort and obscuring it Concerning the persons and particular companies we lay downe two things first it must needs be granted that such there were because the names of some are extant as for example the Waldenses Wickliffe and the Bohemians which agreed with vs in the substance of our religion Next we are not bound to shew an exact catalogue from time to time precisely of euery such person and companie so that vnlesse we do it we lose our cause for first it was the time of Antichrist wherein the Church must be persecuted and by that persecution be diminished and obscured which is the cause why the professors could not ordinarily possesse whole cities and countries wherein they might professe their faith openly but in all places they liued oppressed with the tyrannie and obscured with the greatnesse of Rome that their names and places with other circuÌ„stances whereby their memory should haue bene preserued could not so easily come vnto vs. Next it is certaine that the Church may be in places where none can see it as c 2. Reg. 19 18. in Elias his time there were seuen thousand in Israel and yet he saw neuer a one of them Whence it followeth that they argue but weakly against vs that say our religion was not because we can shew no professors for Elias could shew none and yet there were seuen thousand Thirdly the want of histories is a hinderance For things past can be shewed by no other meanes and the most of those times were exceeding barren of good writers Baronius d An. 90â— n. 1. noteth such want of writers in the nine hundredth yeare that therfore it is called the obscure age So that many things might appeare at those present times which for want of stories could neuer come to our knowledge And the consideration of this one point may iustly stay the discreete from being too confident against vs when they shall see many things to be done that are not written to the posteritie but he forgotten And more then this we assure our selues that the Church of Rome would in all those ages do her best to deface the memorie of any thing that might witnesse for vs whereby it came to passe that so little was written of the men of our religion For what they writ themselues it was easie for their enemies to suppresse and what their enemies wrote of them is of as much credite as that which the Iesuites write this day of vs. This that I say is more then probable For if at this day our aduersaries e Azor. instit tom 1. l. 8. c. 16. Posseu biblioth select pa. 130. a. wipe our very names out of bookes and commaund that no man shall name vs but in contempt and charge vs with horrible opinions that we hold not as that we make God the author of sinne denie fasting praying and good workes c. we may with good discretion assure our selues their ancestors haue done the like in former ages to the men of our religion Hence it cometh to passe that their memorie is very scant in Popish stories as the matters of the Iewes are rarely mentioned in the writings of the Gentiles though they were famous and where they are remembred it is with contempt and slander and hence it is that Wickliffe and the Waldenses are charged with such vile opinions For if the Iesuites thus charge and belie vs at this day why might not their forefathers belie them in like manner and deface their memorie The man that readeth but Wickliffes owne bookes and compareth them with that which Frier Walden most impudently chargeth him with shall finde this to be true that I say And euery bodie knoweth what monsters are written touching Ierom of Prage by his aduersaries and yet Poggius the Popes owne Secretarie that was an eye-witnesse of his death and triall at the Councell of Constance saith f Epist ad Leonard Aretin inter epist Pij 2 â—p 425. he was a man worthy eternall memorie there was no iust cause of death in him he spake nothing in all his triall vnworthy a good man and he maketh question whether the things obiected against him were true or no. So then the practise of the Papists this day with vs defacing our names belying our opinions burying our memorie corrupting our bookes suppressing the truth of things purging and razing all manner of euidence maketh vs assure our selues that in the same manner our ancestors were vsed and that it is a principall reason why we yeeld not so perfect a catalogue as else we might do 3 That which is more to be said touching this point shall be handled below sect 50. § 46. But the Romane Church is for it hath bene continually without interruptioÌ„ since Christ and his Apostles time still visible professing the same faith without change which now it hath and therefore is Catholicke or vniuersall in Time It hath had and hath at this day at least some of euery countrey where there are anie Christians which is almost if not absolutely euery where that communicateth and agreeth in profession of faith with it therefore it is Catholicke and vniuersall in Place It teacheth a most ample and
be no more but u Bell. de amiss gra l. 5. c. 17. Andrad Ortho. expl l. 3. p. 217. the want of originall iustice and a certaine crookednesse of the will wherein he is borne which maketh him odious to God by nature exempting the concupiscence and corruption of nature that remaineth in the regenerate and all that are baptized as if it were no part of this or any sin Which is but a late deuice set abroach to maintaine the perfection and merit of our workes For the Maister of Sentences in his time x L. 2. d. 30. §. Nunc superest inde held it to be our naturall concupiscence expounding this concupiscence to be a qualitie in the soule arising from our flesh propagated to vs from our parents and stirring vs vp to sinne Thus according to the truth wherein the Iesuits now refuse him teaching originall sinne to be a habit distinguished from the naturall faculties of the soule and coming into them through the fall of Adam and there dwelling positiuely as a corrupt quality This opinion had y Alâ—iâ—â—ou l. 2. tract 2â— c 2. Greg. Arim 2. q. 30 art 2. Hen. Gandau quodl 2. q. 11. diuers partakers and Ariminensis that himselfe held it saith many both of his time and of old fauoured it Whereby it appeareth that the moderne opinion of our aduersaries was not the Catholicke receiued doctrine of that time And because then they were not so confident in their opinions as now they are there were othersome that held originall sinne to be nothing else but the sinne of Adam deriued to vs by the effects whereby we are made culpable by bearing the imputation of that which he did The which opinion is defectiue onely in this that it restraineth the sinne to that which is but one part thereof For it consisteth in this and more Yet it was holden in Lombards time as himselfe reporteth and since by z Pigh contr 1. p. 32 Catharin de casu hom peccat orig p. 182 no small men in the Church of Rome and Occham so liked it that he a 2. qu. vlt. v. professeth he would hold it but for the reuerence of some holy men which seeme to say that originall sinne is the want of that iustice which should be in vs. And Catharinus saith that hauing conferred it with many men exactly learned and good Catholickes they liked it exceedingly Whereby we may see the present opinion offered vs at this day by the Iesuites is not so vniuersall as they say it is when the former ages so litle fauoured it and if Catharinus say true the very age now running may also be iealous of it for any thing we know and remoue it againe when the maisters of their Schooles please as they formerly haue done Digression 52. Shewing that the present religion of the Romane Church was obserued and resisted in all ages as it came in and increased naming withall the Persons that made the resistance and the Points wherein and the Time when from fiftie yeares to fiftie throughout all ages since Christ compendiously obserued out of history for the satisfying of their error that so much conceit the antiquitie of Papistry and think it was neuer controlled till Luthers time 18 Againe the Iesuite with much rhetoricke and confidence asketh What voices what stirres what lamentations were heard when Rome brought in a new faith Were all asleep did none resist no Bishop preach no Doctor write against the alteration none to suffer martyrdome neuer a true hearted Christian to lament it no Historiographer neither Greeke nor Latin farre nor neare to make at least some obscure mention of such a matter in his commentaries You see what a face he setteth on the matter and yet all Histories confute him for I neuer saw ancient history Greeke or Latin and yet I haue seene and read those b Camp rat 7. Possen bibliot select l 7. c. 23. which our aduersaries reckon vp for the best most ancient but it containeth some notable memory of alterations made in the Romane Church obserued and lamented by some or other then liuing For which cause our aduersaries at this day haue taken exception against euery one of them and charged each particular author either with falsifying the truth themselues or with being falsified by others which needed not if they contained nothing in disproofe of that which here the Iesuit hath boasted Yea the Iesuite himselfe would lay this very imputation vpon them if he should be driuen to answer that which is produced out of them And then the case would be altered for he might say no more was there no Historiographer t Greek or Latin but you should see he would answer in another tune There are Historiographers Greeke and Latin farre and neare that haue mentioned such a matter but they are all liers For Eusebius Socrates and Sozomen were all 3. of theÌ„ heretickes and liers Nicephorus a lier Benno full of impudent lies Auentine a beastly lier Marianus Scotus a manifest lier Sigebert a lier for the whetstone O the fraud imposture villany of that he hath written And thus they will intertaine whatsoeuer is produced against them as I haue noted Digression 47. nu 12. and for the further manifestation of that I say there is not one of seuenteene histories reckoned vp by Posseuin for the chiefe but Caesar Baronius in his late Annals hath attainted him 19 Againe what need they make the matter so faire and so insolently call vpon vs to shew who resisted them when themselues haue destroied corrupted many authors whereby it should be shewne Auentine b Annal. Beâ—â— l. 5. pag. 455. writeth of Pope Hildebrand that for the cloaking of his ambition he deuised fables corrupted chronicles razed out the things that were done and adulterated the sacred oracles Thus they make away the euidence and then bid vs shew who resisted them Let them restore vs the writings of Wickliffe Dante 's Ockam Marsilius and others out of their ashes and Italian libraries where they lie buried and we will answer them For in the Popes owne Library are bookes both Latin and Greeke written against his primacie as is testified by c Dial. 4. c. 19. Alan Cope which is signe sufficient that the Papacie was resisted before Luther was borne yea Bristo in the preface of his Motiues writeth that scarce any peece or article of the Roman faith but by one or other first or last it hath bene called in question 20 This I will shew particularly in euery age so far as the title of this Digression bindeth me and the Iesuites demaund requireth WAS THERE NONE THAT WOVLD SPEAKE AGAINST IT NONE THAT NOTED IT For in the first 600 yeares there was no substantiall or fundamentall innouation receiued into the Church the present Romane faith touching such points being yet either vnhatched or receiued by knowne hereticks onely the mysterie of iniquitie d 2. Thess 2.7 that began to worke in
dead the signe of the crosse the opinion of freewill at the first coming in were so farre from being applyed to those vile purposes whereto the Church of Rome now bendeth them that they might endure them and we refuse them and yet be both of one religion 5 But why doth the Iesuite assume adoration and images for examples of that which came in without controllement was he disposed thus to prostitute his owne cause was there no example he could make choise of but these when the world neuer knew any innouation more famously and visibly noted then these Did not a Can. 36. the Elibertine Councell and b Epist ad Ioan. Epiphanius sufficiently point at the coming in of Images And when the Nicen Councell had allowed them to be worshipped did not Charles the great in a generall Councell of three hundred Bishops holden at Frankford abrogate the decrees of Nice againe and writ a booke against them And did not c An. 794. nu 39 by Baronius his owne confession the most learned men and famous of that age speake against the Nicen Councell Walafridus Strabo Ionas the Archbishop of Orleance Hincmarus the Archbishop of Rhemes yea another whole Synode vnder Lewis the first I know he excuseth it and d Geneb chronol an 744. Bellar. â—mag c. 14. others with him by this that the Councels of Frankford and Paris and these learned men did mistake the definition of the Nicen Councell but this is a bankrupt shift confuted by e Suar. tom 1. d. 54. sect 3. Vasqu adorat l. 2. nu 228. as learned of their owne side as themselues And therefore the Protestants condemning the worship of images follow the ancient Church that resisted it 6 And wheÌ„ we say the vse of images in the Church of Rome is idolatry and that the Papists worship stockes and stones as the Painims did this is neither ignorantly nor maliciously spoken Not maliciously though merily for f Adâ— valen c. 6 Tertullian saith touching such like absurdities of the Valentinian hereticks the matter it self somtime requireth that we laugh at it Many things deserue to be conuinced that with our graue doing therof we seeme not to reuerence them Vanitie and mirth are neare sib Let the truth laugh because she is ioyfull and iest with her aduersaries because she is secure that when we say merrily the Papists worship stockes and stones our words be not taken as vttered in malice And we speake not ignorantly but know what we say and can giue a reason for it For g Exod. 20.4 Deut. 4 15. Rom. 1.23 to erect and worship images of the inuisible God is idolatrie or if that be denied yet vnlawfull by h Duran 3. d. 9. q. 2. ad 4. Peres de tradit part 3 pag. 222. the confession of learned Papists themselues though i Bell. imag c. 8. the Church of Rome now vse it 7 Againe I thinke no Papist will deny but his crosse and crucifixe for example is a stocke or a stone or such a like mettall and yet the Iesuites say k Coster Ench. that all the honour that is due to the samplar is giuen to the image l Bell. imag c. 22 and it is so giuen that the image staieth and limiteth it in it selfe as it is an image and not onely as it representeth the samplar m Greg. Val. tom 4. 345. themselues after their maner being properly * Terminus the compasse of the worship though not of themselues but in respect of the samplar and thus the images of Christ must be adored with diuine honour per aliud The which is now the current doctrine of the Church of Rome saue that n Bell. imag c. 22. Suar. tom 1. d. 54. sect 4. some wiser then other some and possible their conscience checking them thinke it no wholesome forme of words for the pulpit Againe in the Masse-book is a praier to the crosse All haile ô crosse our onely hope c. Wherein some things being spoken which can be meant of nothing but the very wood it selfe as this Thou onely wert worthy to beare the ransome of the world ô faithfull crosse only thou art the noble tree among all it is plaine that euen a blocke and a stocke is adored with Gods honor as was vsed among the Painims For euen they in much of their idolatrie did no more in that many of their idols were the image of the true God and so reputed and worshipped by them respectiuely o Act. 17.23 and with relation to God For p Baâ—o an 52. nu 9. Peres tradit part 3. pag. 225. the altar at Athens was dedicated to p Baâ—o an 52. nu 9. Peres tradit part 3. pag. 225. the same God whom Paul preached and it is the profession of q Dion Chrys ser 12. Olymp. Sozo l. 7. c. 15. Athenag Leg. pag. 20 the learned Gentiles that their images were dedicated to the true God the author of life and giuer of all good things the common Father and Sauiour of mankind whom in those images they worshipped reputing the images themselues but stockes and stones Seneca r Qu. natural l. 2. c. 45. saith By Iupiter standing in the Capitoll with lightning in his hand they vnderstand the Preseruer and Gouernor of all things the Soule and Spirit the Master and Maker of all the world to whom euery name agreeth Few or none among them Å¿ Vbi supra saith Peresius thought the matter of their idols so grauen to be Gods They had many idols whereby they represented the true God Yea t Ortho. expl l. 3. pag. 289. saith Andradius many among them vehemently abhorred the multitude of gods and in their mind and thought religiously worshipped that one God whom with daily meditation and all the power of their mind they sought in him they put all their hope him they alwaies studied to please With this conceit the Painims worshipped their images u Rom. 1.23 and yet are condeÌ„ned of idolatrie Now I assume But the Papists do the very same in the worship of their images acknowledging them indeed to be but images of God and his Saints but yet worshipping theÌ„ as much as the Gentiles did theirs The Papists therefore in the vse of their images commit idolatry and worship stocks and stones as the Gentiles did 8 But the Iesuite needeth not take this vnkindly For his x Vasqu adora l. 3. disp 1. c. 2. 3. Iesuites write that not an image onely or a holy thing may be worshipped with the same adoration that is giuen to God but euen any other thing in the world whether liuing or without life As for example an Angell a man the Sunne Moone and Starres the earth yea * Ipso ligno Lapides de modulo straminis a stocke a stone or a little straw that the Iesuite no longer scorne the imputation of worshipping stockes and stones Yea Cornelius Agrippa
could not haue bin without it Now our aduersaries say otherwise 4 Secondly the Fathers insisted on the succession of other Churches as well as the Church of Rome which proueth manifestly that the succession which they assumed proueth not the Church of Rome to be the Church of God because it proueth not other Churches so to be Our aduersaries haue e Posseuin noc verbi Dei pag. 329. written that the ancient Fathers reckoned not vp the successors of other Bishops alike as they did the successors of the Romane chaire but this is an vntruth proceeding of desperation for Irenaeus in the chapter alledged mentioneth the Churches of Smyrna Ephesus Asia and in f L. 1. c. 3. another place the Churches of Germany Spaine France Egypt Lybia and others And Tertullian g Praescript referreth vs to Corinth Philippi Thessalonica Ephesus Rome Whereby it is plaine that if Rome be now the true Church because the Fathers mention the succession thereof then the Churches of Greece must be granted to be the true Church also because the Fathers mention their succession also which in Constantinople and Alexandria is preserued to this day But in that they reckon vp the succession of other Churches as well as of Rome it appeareth that they thought it was tied no more to Rome then to others 5 Out of all this that I haue said I answer to the places alledged And first to Irenaeus that he saith not simply he conuinced heretiks by shewing succession but by shewing the faith which successiuely had continued to his time and we are contented the Iesuite conuince vs so too if he can Tertullian biddeth hereticks if they can deduce the succession of their Churches and sectmasters which he might wel do although it would not follow thereupon that wheresoeuer outward succession were there should be also true doctrine And he had reason to make them this challenge for though euery company be not the true Church that hath outward succession yet they pretend themselues so to be therefore he prouoketh them to put the succession in triall and shew if they can that the first author of their sect was an Apostles successor This was a good trial then but now it is not when not onely new seas are erected but the successors in ancient thrones are corrupted Austine saith the succession of Bishops retained him in the Church of Rome And good reason when they succeded in faith as well as in sea If he were now aliue he would say otherwise when the succession such as it is remaineth without the faith it was not the succession alone that retained him but other motiues ioyned with it and mentioned in the same place which now are wanting So likewise h Ep. 165. in his epistle to Generosus he reckoneth vp the Bishops of Rome that had bin till his time not vsing their succession as an argument to proue it the true Church but naming those that had succeeded therein and perseuered in the truth which he then well might do but the Iesuit now cannot in as much as the Popes following declined from the faith of their ancestors Optatus mentioneth the Romane succession as Austin doth reckoning vp a catalogue of the Bishops that had bin in that sea till Siritius time to shew the Donatists that the Church was in other places as well as in Affrick and to admonish them that their Churches wanted succession also and not the true faith onely This is no aduantage to the Iesuites cause For as some hereticks want succession so all that haue it are not proued thereby to be true Catholicks for any thing that Austin or Optatus say That which Cyprian saith receiueth the same answer that I haue giuen to the rest § 54. The which to be conioyned may euidently be proued out of S. Paul himselfe Ephes 4. who saith that our Sauiour Dedit pastores doctores ad consummationem sanctorum in opus ministerij in edificationem corporis Christi donec occurramus omnes in vnitatem fidei agnitionis filij Dei in virum perfectum in mensuram aetatis plenitudinis Christi c. Signifying that Christ appointed these outward functions of Pastors in the Church to continue for the edification and perfection thereof vntill the worlds end especially for this purpose as is said in the same place vt non simus paruidi fluctuantes non circumferamur omni vento doctrinae that we may not be little ones wauering and caried away with euery wind of doctrine Therefore that this ordinance and intention of our Sauiour might haue the purposed effect he must prouide so to assist and direct these Pastours in teaching the true faith that the people their flocke may alwayes by hearing them be preserued from wauering in the ancient faith and from error of new doctrine the which cannot be vnlesse with succession of the Pastors lawfully succeeding be conioyned true doctrine in such sort that all true Pastors shall neuer vniuersally erre or faile to teach the ancient and Apostolicke doctrine For if they should thus vniuersally erre then all the people who do and ought like sheepe follow the voyce of their Pastors should also generally wauer and erre from true faith and be caried about with the wind of new doctrine contrarie to this purpose of almightie God expressed in this place by S. Paule Yea the whole Church which according to S. Gregorie Nazianzene orat de moderat in disput habend consisteth of sheepe and Pastors should vniuersally erre contrarie to diuerse expresse promises of our Sauiour Christ of which I haue spoken somewhat before Since therefore these promises cannot be false nor the purpose of almightie God faile it followeth that the people hearing their Pastors may also infallibly alway learne and continue in the true Apostolike faith consequently that these ordinary Pastors appointed by almightie God of purpose to instruct and confirme the people in true faith shall neuer at least vniuersally faile to teach the true faith And therefore the succession of this externall function of ordinarie Pastors must needs be conioyned with the succession of one and the same true holy Catholike and Apostolike faith The Answer 1 The Iesuite hauing said immediatly before that with the outward successiō was alway infallibly conioyned the true faith now proceedeth to proue it wherin you may easily conceiue he taketh a hard taske in hand because his owne Bellarmine confesseth the contrary a Not. eccl c. ◠It is not necessarily gathered that there is alway the Church where there is succession and the Greek Church at this day proueth it inuincibly against our aduersaries For they haue the succession as entire as Rome it selfe and yet b Bell. ib. §. Dico secundo argum Can. loc l. 4. c. vlt. the Papists thinke them not the Church of God because among diuerse errors they will not submit themselues to the Popes authoritie The Iesuit therefore hath vndertaken to proue that which the learnedst
of his owne side know and confesse to be false But that is ordinary 2 And as his assertion is insolent so he proueth it as weakly though I must confesse he hath verbatim borrowed his discourse from c Greg. Valent. tom 3 d. 1. q. 1. punct 7. §. 25. as learned a Iesuite as euer Iesuited But I answer two things First that no man denieth but the succession of true doctrine and communication which the true Church of God is vnseparably annexed with the succession of Pastors lawfully succeeding I say not the outward succession of Pastors but the true succession of Pastors lawfully succeeding the which are the Iesuites owne words whereto if our aduersaries will hold them and require no more they shall be yeelded vnto and I wil grant the same to be sufficiently proued by the text of Eph. 4. But this neither confuteth vs nor iustifieth the Church of Rome It confuteth not vs because d §. 52. per totam I haue shewed the teachers of our faith do lawfully succeed so alway haue done though not outwardly and visibly to the world And it iustifieth not the Church of Rome forasmuch as the ordinarie Pastors therein succeed not lawfully They succeed in a sort externally sitting in the seats where sometime the Apostles and their successors did but they succeed not lawfully as I will shew in the next section or any other way then the Greecians now do or then the Pharises high Priests did in our Sauiors time when they refused him denying him to be the Sonne of God requiring a murtherer to be giuen vnto thē the which they could not haue done if the Iesuites assertion were true that the faith of Gods Church is infallibly conioyned with the outward succession For they had the outward succession from Aaron lineally without interruption and yet if the people had obeyed them in all things they had led them into an vniuersall error no lesse then the reiecting of the Sonne of God Now if onely lawfull succession haue the truth abiding with it and that is lawfull which succeedeth principally in doctrine retaining the ancient faith as well as the place and externall shew which our aduersaries dare not deny and Tertullian affirmeth e Praescrip c 32 where he saith the Churches that conspire with the Apostles in the same faith are reputed no lesse Apostolicall for the consanguinitie of the doctrine if I say this lawfull succession onely haue the true faith going with it let them say freely and without collusion to what purpose should they pleade their externall succession to iustifie their faith before they haue pleaded their faith to iustifie their succession which when they haue done and they can do it no way but by the Scripture the Protestants will neuer except against their succession but imbrace it And what vanitie is it to obiect against vs that we want outward succession when that succession which is to be stood vpon consisteth not in the circumstances of place and shew but in the retaining of the true faith which may be done without interruption when the outward shew of places and persons is interrupted 3 Secondly I answer further to the text alledged and to all his discourse thereupon granting first that the ministerie of Pastors is the ordinance of God Secondly to continue in his Church for euer Thirdly for the teaching of his people Fourthly in such sort that they shall neuer vniuersally erre or faile to teach the ancient and Apostolicke doctrine Fiftly whereupon the people are bound to heare them And hence it followeth that sixtly where such Pastors succeede the true faith is alway conioyned This is granted But then our aduerries should consider that such Pastors furnished with these promises do not alway succeed openly or in one place without interruption of the externall succession but they may arise and successiuely continue when the world seeth them not or seeing them driueth them from the Episcopall seas that they shal be constrained to teach the Church in secret S. Paul saith Pastors and Doctors shall succeed and succeeding teach the true faith but he saith not all that haue outward succession hold the true faith neither is there any thing in his words that proueth this succession to be of that nature which our aduersaries require Now the question betweene vs is not whether there be a perpetuall succession of Pastors in the Church of Christ that infallibly teach his truth for we deny not that but whether these Pastors be onely they that continue in one place one after another outwardly and visibly at all times to all the world whether Pastors succeeding in this maner be so priuiledged that they cannot erre which we deny and in al Saint Pauls discourse there is not a word against vs because whatsoeuer he saith may be vpholden in that kind of succession that I haue described Againe our English Bishops this day succeed lineally in their places from the first Apostles of our land will the Iesuit therefore grant we are the true Church he will not though indeed we be because they haue changed that which the precedent Bishops held for the true faith the which being thus obiected ouerthroweth himself for now you see that with Pastors succeeding the true faith is not alway ioyned for one may succeed that will change the ancient doctrine which the Iesuite thinketh our English Bishops haue done though they haue not that which is most ancient but we proue against all exception their Italian Popes haue as I haue shewed Digress 49. 51. 52. § 55. But as I haue said before and by many Catholicke writers hath bene proued at large in the Romane Church onely is this lawfull vninterrupted succession of ordinarie Pastors found therfore the Romane Church and those that communicate agree with it is the true Apostolike Church and hath in it alway taught the true Apostolike faith The Answer 1 Lawfull succession is when the persons succeed in doctrine as well as in place which in the Romane Church at this day they do not inasmuch as they are departed from the ancient faith to their owne heresies And this is the principall cause why we deny that which the Iesuite saith here touching the Romane succession 2 We do not deny but they haue a ranke of Bishops whether interrupted or no I will shew in the Digression following externally sitting in Rome one after another but we deny lawfull succession to stand in this And we deny againe that this is found onely there and no where else for it is found in the Greeke Church also at this day as appeareth by e Legat. eccl Alexand. apud Baron annal tom 6. in fine the letters which the Patriarke of Alexandria sent to the Pope about 15. yeares since wherin he stiles himselfe thus Gabriel by the grace of God the seruant of the seat of Saint Marke in the citie of Alexandria in Aegypt and all other places ioyning to him and bordering
And Tertullian lib. de praescript And Optatus lib. 2. contra Parmen The Answer 1 The ancient Fathers affirme not one word of all this First they affirme not that the Romane Church was then gouerned by Popes as now it is For they saw not how it is gouerned now and therefore could not affirme it And that it was not in their time thus gouerned I haue shewed Digression 27. and 49. num 6. and 51. num 9. The Bishops of Rome in their time I graunt were called Popes and Occumenicall as a Ep. Arsen apud Athan. apol 2. Basil ep 52. Iustin Nouell 3. 5. in tit Balsam respons in iure Graecorsi Ioan. Aquipont de Antichr p. 107. other Bishops also were but they had no such authoritie as now they vsurpe Their owne b Concord l. 2. c. 12. Cusanus may teach them that he is gotten beyond the ancient obseruations not hauing that power belonging to him which certaine flatterers giue him And Duarenus a Papist likewise yet c De sacris eccles benef l. 1. c. 16. confesseth as much as I say that Phocas made him the vniuersall Bishop which authority his successors haue maruellously increased 2 Next albeit they affirme the Church of Rome to be the lawfull and Apostolike Church yet they affirmed not the present Romane Church which they neuer saw so to be He that affirmed Lais to be a virgine when she was ten yeares old did not say she was so at tweÌ„tie Rome since their death hath plaied the whore and lost that name and reputation which the fathers had of her Which answereth all the places cited out of Irenaeus Austine Ambrose Hierome and Cyprian For calling Rome the Apostolike Church they spake of their owne time and not of ours 3 Thirdly they do not affirme the Romane Church in their dayes to be lawfull and Apostolike for no other reason but because it had a lineall succession from the primitiue Church but as I haue answered d Sect. 53. n. 2. inde before because it had withall the succession of doctrine which the present Papacie hath not Neither did they thinke that therefore it had succession of doctrine because it had succession of Priests as if the former must needs be inseparably ioyned with the later For their words expresse no such thing as I haue shewed They reuoke schismatickes to the succession indeed of the Romane Church as they did likewise of others and obiect it against them but not it alone nor so as they would assume all succession for euer to be ioyned with the true faith though then in the Churches named it was Neither did they beleeue the Priests whom they so called to be sacrificers or Massing Priests They vsed the name but they gaue it not the definition which the Church of Rome now vseth Vpon all which it followeth that the ancient fathers affirmed not the Romane Church at this day to be the true Apostolicke Church though you see into the places cited an hundred times the which are answered Sect. 53. principally for this cause that the reasons whereupon they so commended it then hold not now in our dayes as they did in theirs If our aduersaries will take benefite by that which the fathers say in commendation of the Romane Church in their dayes they must proue their succession as inuiolated and their doctrine as sound as then it was which they can neuer do § 57. Now to make an end considering all this which I haue said and proued to wit that there is but one infallible and entire faith the which is necessarie to saluation to all sorts of men the which faith euerie one must learne by some knowne infallible and vniueâ—sall rule accommodate to the capacitie of euerie one the which rule can be no other but the doctrine and teaching of the true Church which Church is alway to continue visible to the worlds end and is to be knowne by these foure markes aforesaid agreeing onely to the Romane Church whereupon it followeth that it only is the true Church of which euery one must learne that faith which is necessarie to saluation considering I say all this I would demaund of the Protestants who will not admit the authoritie or doctrine of the Church how they can perswade themselues to haue that faith whereby they may be saued or by what right they can chalenge vnto themselues the title of the true Church since as I now haue proued they haue neuer a one of these foure markes which by the common consent of all are the true markes of Christs true Church How can theirs be the true Church which neither is one because it hath no meanes to keepe it in vnitie nor holy because neither was there euer man of it which by miracle or by some other vndoubted testimonie can be proued to be truly holy Neither is their doctrine such as those that most purely obserue it do without faile become holy nor catholike because it teacheth not all true things which haue bin held in former times but denieth many of them Neither is it spread ouer all the Christian world but euery particular sect is contained in some few corners therof neither hath it bene euer since Christ but sprong vp of late the first founder being Martin Luther an apostata Frier a man after his apostasie knowne both by his writings words and deeds and maner of his death to haue bene a notable euill liuer nor Apostolike because the preachers thereof cannot deriue their pedegree lineally without interruption from anie Apostle but are forced to begin their line if they will haue anie from Luther or Caluin or some later How can they then bragge that they only haue the true holy Catholike and Apostolike faith Since this is not found but only in the true holy Catholike Apostolike Church and remaining alwayes as S Augustine said in ventre Ecclesiae in the bellie of the Church It is vnpossible that they which are not of this Church should haue the true faith according to the saying of the same Augustin afore cited Quisquis ab hoc ventre separatus est necesse est vt falsa loquatur whosoeuer is separated from this bellie of the Church he must needs speake false For who can once haue true faith vnlesse he first heare it because fides est ex auditu Rom. 10. Faith cometh of hearing But how can one heare it sine praedicante without one to preach it truly vnto him The Answer 1 That which the Iesuite hath said and proued is granted him to wit that there is indeed but one true faith which is necessarie to saluation to all sorts of men the which as it must so it may be learned by that rule which God hath left infallible vniuersall and accommodate to the capacitie of euery one the which rule is the Scriptures contained in the bookes of the old and new Testament and not that which the Iesuit meaneth by the doctrine and teaching of the
Paule in the foresaid place that those that come to it must not take the honor to themselues but must be called vnto it as Aaron was to wit visibly and by peculiar consecration and must come to it in this ordinarie maner which our Sauiour termed to enter in by the doore Ioh. 10. to wit by Christ who visibly sent his Apostles saying Euntes docete omnes gentes baptizantes eos c. Matth. vlt. and Ioh. 20. vsing a peculiar ceremonie Qui sufflauit in eos he breathed vpon them saying Accipite Spiritum sanctum quorum remiseritis peccata remittuntur eis quorum retinueritis retenta sunt and are not forgiuen them By which words visibly was giuen to the Apostles both power to absolue from sinnes and a vertuall commandement to the people to make confession to them of all their mortall sinne since without this confession they could not tell what to remit and when to retaine sinnes The which Apostles being thus visibly by our Sauiour called consecrated and sent did visibly by imposition of hands ordeine others their successors and these others from time to time without interruption vntill this present men who now are Priests and Pastors in the Catholicke Romane Church These therefore I say enter in by Christ the doore and therefore are true Pastors and whosoeuer entreth in anie other way our Sauiour in the same place hath told vs how to account of them where he saith Qui non intrat per ostium in ouile ouium sed ascendit aliunde fur est latro who cometh not to feed the sheepe but to steale kil and destroy them So that we haue not to expect any to be sent of God to teach and instruct vs in faith but such as come in this ordinary maner as it is certain Luther and Caluin did not come The Answer 1 In this place the Iesuite to shew we haue not the Church excepteth against our Pastors and particularly against Luther and Caluin as if they had no lawfull calling to preach as they did And indeed it is a certaine truth that all true Pastors in the Church of God taking vpon them to instruct his people must haue a calling thereunto and be sent of God as the texts alledged do well proue Heb. 5.4 2. Chron. 26.18 Mat. 28.19 Ioh. 10.1 and 20.22 And if anie man leape out of the Church forsaking that company wherein lawful succession vndoubtedly is and with the succession lawfull sending froÌ„ God he must be reputed a hireling that cometh to destroy For this is the touchstone whereby true teachers are discerned and the contrarie discouered And by this we know the Pastors of our Church against whom the Iesuite excepteth to be legitimate For the God of heauen sent them and when they came they leaped not out of the Church otherwise then the wheate doth out of the chaffe when it is winnowed neither did they teach anie thing that was new or contrarie to the Church but continued and reformed the ancient doctrine which the Papacie in the Church had corrupted And let the reader remember which I haue often answered in this booke that the Popish religion and abuses of all sorts in processe of time grew as a leprosie vpon the Church and as I may say incorporated themselues therewith by reason whereof things good euill were mingled together Gods word with mans traditions the true Sacraments with mans errors and the externall calling of Ministers with foule corruptions in which case Luther and our teachers renouncing the said errors traditions and corruptions and retaining the rest cannot be said to haue gone out of the Church but to remaine perfectly in it still because that which they left was not vniuocally of the church but only in conceit was reputed so In the Church of Rome knowne by that name and in no other in these Westerne parts were the true Scriptures Sacraments Callings and Successions euery part of true faith and necessarie doctrine but these things were not the Papacie against which we go the Papacie was and is that which ouer and besides was by degrees added to them And therefore our Pastors leapt not out of the Church which alwayes goeth with the truth but out of the Papacie and preaching by vertue of that externall mission which they receiued in the Papacie they had the vndoubted commission of Christ whereto they had right And euen as when a faire poole of water becometh in time corrupted weedes grow the mudde increaseth and frogs creepe into it the owner thereof cutteth a channell and leauing the corruption drawes the water to another place and so occupieth it without danger and the frogs remaining must not complaine the water is theirs because the pit wherein they remaine is it that first ingendred it no more may the Papacy accuse vs for going out of the church of Rome as long as we left nothing behind vs but the frogs and weedes and that which was the ancient water before they came we are whose growing vpon vs was the cause that we separated although they succeeded in the Church as the weeds and frogs did in the poole 2 The Iesuite obiecteth that God hath planted a Church to endure in all ages wherein he will haue a visible succession of teachers preserued from failing in the true faith therefore none are sent of God but such as come in this ordinarie maner called and succeeding visibly and with peculiar consecration which Christ termeth entring in by the doore The Antecedent whereof is false For though Gods ordinance be that he haue a Church and teachers therein in all ages succeeding one another and standing in the truth yet he hath made no law that this succession shall be visible or with peculiar consecration as the Iesuite meaneth them For by visible he vnderstandeth conspicuous at al times to all the world which is a foolish assertioÌ„ a § 17. And so forward to the 24. confuted in it owne place where he disputed it It is sufficient that the succession of the Pastors in the Church be visible to the children of the Church And by peculiar consecration b Dom. Bann he meaneth the Popish ceremonie of Orders which is a priuate inuention of the later times and the proper corruption that grew to the outward ordination and calling of Ministers which God appointed Let these false definitioâ—s be remoued and the succession and calling and consecration be expounded as God meant them when he said they should alway be in the Church and our Pastors haue them as I haue answered c §. 52. n. 5. §. 53. and so forward before Yea our verie aduersaries denie not but a man may be a lawfull Minister though a Bishop neuer consecrated him and whereas the common opinion in the Church of Rome is that a Bishop differeth not from a Priest in order but in iurisdiction onely hence it followeth vnauoidably that iure diuino a simple priest in some cases may ordaine because
Papists as deepe in breaking fasting daies as the Protestants ibid Fasting was an indifferent ceremonie in the Primitiue Church ibid. Lent fast was holden diuersly ibid. Fathers and Doctors are not the rule of faith 23.1 They may erre ibid. The Papists boast that the Fathers are on their side 44.4 They had their errors 44.5 We are not bound to euerie thing that they haue said but may sometime lawfully dissent from them 44.7 The Papists themselues do it ibid. The state of the question touching the authoritie of the Fathers 44.8 Who the Papists meane by the Fathers nu 9. What they meane by all the Fathers consenting in one nu 10. The Pope vshers the Fathers nu 11. The practise of the Papists in reiecting the Fathers nu 11. 12. Forefathers how farre forth to be followed 61.2 What is to be thought touching our forefathers that liued and died in the times of Papistrie 6â— 4 Freewill denied by Papists 35.20 All the questions touching freewil laid downe in order as they rise with their true states Digress 42. The want of freewill debarreth not consultation 40.48 How it is reconciled with Gods praedestination nu 45. What freewill is and wherein it standeth nu 54. Free-will in naturall and ciuil things expounded nu 55. No freewill in spirituall things till grace come nu 56. The Papists doctrine to the contrarie nu 57. Some learned men in the Church of Rome thinke freewil to be Pelagianisme nu 61. The will of man concurreth not with Gods grace in vprising from sinne nu 64. The Papists doctrine to the contrarie nu 64. The efficacie of grace dependeth not on our will ibid. What freewill man hath when he is regenerate nu 65. Frier how defined by Lincolniensis 50.32 G. GOd not the author of sinne 40.50 See Author of sinne Good works necessarie to saluation Digress 34. They are to be excluded out of our justification but not out of our sanctification ibid. They merit not Digress 35. The Protestants do not say Good works are sinne Digress 37. Grace The Papists meaning expounded when they say Mans wil without grace can do nothing 40.57 The Papists teach that a man of himselfe can do good before any grace come ibid. Man cannot dispose himselfe it is grace that doth it 40.63 What that is that maketh grace effectuall 40.64 A man may infallibly know if he be in grace Digress 43. Greeks They haue as good outward succession as the Romish Church hath 55.2 Gropper the Cardinall A storie of him 55.7 H. HIerome of Prague a good man Holinesse no note of the Church 43.1 The holinesse of the Romane Church disproued 38.1 The places of Luther and Smidelin answered that are obiected against the holinesse of the Protestant Churches 38.2 The holinesse of the Protestants doctrine is iustified 40. ad 49. What holinesse the Protestants lay they haue 41.1 Complaints made by Papists against the vnholinesse of their own Church Digress 31. A man may infallibly know if he be truly holy 41.3 and Digress 43. Honorius a Pope that was an heretick 36.34 In that cause of Honorius you haue an example how the Papists denie all authorities 44.15 I IGnorance in matters of faith is commended by the Papists 2.5 Images not allowed of in ancient times and their worship forbidden 47.5 They are a new deuice 35.13 The Papists are not at one among themselues touching the first that rejected Images 50.5 Images of the Trinitie when brought in 50.11 Image worship when it was first brought in 50 1â— 51.5 The Papists are deuided among themselues touching the adoration of Images 50. 16. They worship stocks stones as the Pagans did 51.6 Imputation of Christs righteousnesse for our iustification is acknowledged by Papists 35.20 What this imputation importeth 40.41 Indies not conuerted by the Iesuites 48.2 but vtterly rooted out by cruelties vnspeakable which are touched at large Digress 50. The Protestants religion was in India afore the Papists knew them 48.3 Iudge of controuersies is the Scripture Digress 3. Papists will be iudges in their owne cause 5.7 The Pope is made iudge who is a partie 5.8 The iudge of controuersies assigned by the Papists falleth into the â—ame difficulties that are layed against the scripture 34.2 The Papists will not stand to their owne iudges 30.4 35.15 Iustification is by faith and not by works 35.14 20. Digress 40. What iustification is and how it is distinguished from sanctification 40.38 K. KEeping the commaundements See Law of God Keies giuen to the rest of the Apostles as wel as to Peter 36.12 They import not the supremacie euinced by disputation 36.16 inde Digress 30. What the keyes of the Church meane 36.18 Knowledge very commendable in the people 2.7 Great among them of the Primitiue Church ibid By what meanes the elect know and are assured of their owne saluatioÌ„ 40.39 L. LAtin prayers and seruice misliked by some Papists 35.20 against antiquitie 47.2 Law of God No mans righteousnesse can satisfie it Digr 34. No man can keepe it Digress 36. Why giuen when no man can keepe it 40.21 The Papists say absurdly that the coÌ„mandements are easie to keepe and a man may liue without sin 40.19 Lay people ought to reade the Scriptures and to haue them translated See Scriptures and Translations Lay men haue bin made Bishops 5.11 LegeÌ„d The miracles recorded therin are of no credit 42.2 Nor the Legends themselues 42.7 Lent fast not holden in the Primitiue Church as now it is 40.4 Libertie Our faith is falsly charged to be a doctrine of libertie 43.2 Luther His calling is iustified 52.5 59.2 And his writings 57.3 And his life and death against the malicious reports of the Papists Digr 57. Those reports are touched ib. M. MAriage no sacrameÌ„t 35.20 The mariage of Priests not restrained in ancient times 47.4 When the restraint began 50.10 Marks of the Church See Church Virgine Mary The Papists say the Church was in her alone when Christ died 17.3 Masse not offered by Christ at his last supper 35.20 When it began 50.14 Merits renounced by Papists 35.20 and 40.15 Merit of workes none 40.12 and 14. When that opinion began 50.13 The Papists hold it and what they meane by it 40.13 The diuers opinions that are among the Papists touching merits 40.16 Merits of Christ how farre they go by the Papists doctrine 40.13.29 Merit of congruitie what and how holden in the Church of Rome 40 62. Miracles not now needfull 12.6 Their proper vse 42.4 The time when the Church had them and the end why 41.4 The miracles that the Papists stand vpon are of no certaine credit 42.5 inde The Gentiles had as good miracles as the Church of Rome hath 42.6 The Legendaries tainted for whetstone liers 42.7 Incredible reports in the Legends and some also in the ancient fathers 42.8 Morall works what 40.59 Touching naturall freewill in things morall ibid. Monkes of ancient time not like ours of this time 41.3 and
e Bellar. de nâ—â— eccl c. 2. When the question is concerning the Church which it is and the Scripture is admitted on both hands then the Scripture is more apparent and easier to know then the Church So that the Papists do but spend time and mocke the world in obiecting to vs the authoritie and dignitie of their Church they may do it as they list one to another but in their controuersies with vs they may not not onely because we reiect it but principally for as much as the doctrine of the Scripture by their owne verdict is easier and plainer 4 Neither are the Iesuites reasons to the contrary of any value For I grant that to the finding out of the true faith we haue need of learning iudgement and illumination as the meanes Yea the doctrine hereof is so hard to natural men as we are all till God haue regenerate vs f Ioh. 7.17 8.31.43 14 17. 1 Cor. 2.14 2. Cor. 3.14 Mat. 16.17 Iob 32.8 that it goeth beyond the capacity of flesh and bloud But he should haue remembred the ministery of the Church and light of Gods spirit helpeth our infirmities the doctrine it selfe is a light shining through all these incumbrances These meanes are not such but the simple may attaine to a sufficient portion thereof and his Ad haec quis idoneus with that which followeth is denied as an idle conceit and g §. 7. 8. alreadie confuted And let the impediments be what they will yet shall the Iesuite finde them in the way of his owne Church and let him if he can free his owne notes from them For is his Catholicke Romane which so eagerly he putteth to his friend such a Church as needeth neither learning nor iudgement nor the light of heauen to discerne it If it be I am content he enioy it himselfe neither will I euer perswade my friends to communicate with that companie which is so famous that the very wind wil blow a man into it And yet h Staple relect controu 1. q. 3. Greg de ValeÌ„t commen theol tom 3. pag. 145. some of the Iesuites owne side will say sometime that they had need both of wisedome and skill that shall alwayes discerne the Church 5 The text of Esay speaketh of the ministery of the Gospell and it meaneth that it shall infallibly guide the meanest people that liue therein to eternall life which it doth by propounding to them the word of God that thereby they may know it to be the true Church and be drawne to walke in the paths thereof And though the Prophet call it a direct way yet I am sure he meaneth not that any can walke in it till he haue found it or any can finde it i Esa 35.5 till his eyes be opened k Ioh. 12.40 Act. 26.18 2. Cor. 4.4 which is done no way but by the doctrine of the Church Or if he think the way of the Church so easie because the holy Prophet calleth it a direct way that fooles may walke in it let him say vnfainedly if his affection to the Romane Helena haue not blinded h s eyes l 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Theocr. Bucoliast as louers are blind and besotted his conscience that he cannot see the doctrine of the Scriptures to be as easie seeing it is called m Psal 19.8 Pro. 1.4 a sure law giuing wisedome to the simple and light to the eyes sharpening the wit of the simple and giuing knowledge and discretion to children And Austine saith n Enar. in psa 8. The Scripture is bowed downe to the capacitie of babes and sucklings And Chrysostome affirmeth o Hom. 1. in Mat. They are so easie to vnderstand that the capacitie of euery seruant plow-man widow and boy may reach vnto them p Hom. 3. de Laz. yea the most simple that is of himselfe onely by reading may vnderstand them In which sayings we see as much affirmed of the doctrine of the Scripture as the Iesuite can say is affirmed in the place of Esay concerning the Church and yet possible he will turne him in a narrow roome afore he will yeeld and keepe possession still in his Church-porch against all the pulpits in England that speake for the Scriptures § 27. Secondly I proue the same because when we seeke for the true Church we seeke for it principally for this end that by it as a necessarie and infallible meanes we may heare and learne and perfectly know the true faith in all points which otherwise is in it selfe hidden obscure and vnknowne to vs according to that of S. Paul Animalis homo non percipit ea quae sunt Spiriritus Dei 1. Cor. 2. For as no man by the onely power of nature can attaine this supernaturall knowledge of diuine mysteries which we beleeue by our faith so neither doth the Spirit of God who doth as the principall cause infuse this gift of faith into our soules ordinarily instruct anie man in the knowledge of true faith immediatly by himselfe alone but requireth as a necessary condition the preaching and expounding of matters of faith to be made by the true Church according as S. Paul saith Rom. 10. Quomodo credent ei queÌ„ non audierunt quomodo audient sine praedicante quomodo vero praedicabunt nisi mittantur Therefore the true Church is rather a marke whereby we must know the true faith then contrarie the true faith to know the true Church The Answer 1 This is the second argument and is concluded in this Syllogisme That is no marke or meanes to know the Church by which it self is vnknowne to vs till the Church teach it and is learned by the meanes and ministery of the Church But such is the true faith that we cannot know it til the Church teach it vs and it selfe is learned by the meanes and ministerie of the Church for God instructeth no man immediatly but by the preaching of the Church as Saint Paul saith Rom. 10. Therefore the true faith is not a sufficient marke to finde the Church by For answer to this argument it will easily be granted that the ministery of the Church is the ordinary meanes whereby we learne the faith of Christ and that no man of himselfe can attaine to the knowledge thereof but as the Church teacheth him This I say is granted so it be well vnderstood For the spirit of God in the Scripture is the principall schoolemaster from whom all truth cometh and which openeth the heart to beleeue and the Church is it which by her ministery holdeth this truth before vs and therefore except in some extraordinary cases the preaching thereof is required as a necessary condition as the text of Saint Paul speaketh 2 But hence it followeth not that therefore the Church is rather a marke of the faith then the faith a marke of the Church for these two the true Church and the true faith are like relatiues inseparably vnited together by a
certaine order and respect either to other as a school-master and his teaching so that the one proueth and declareth the other as causes and effects vse to do In which kind of prouing the order is that first the effect sheweth the cause it being ordinarie that a cause cannot be assured so to be but by the effect which it produceth and offereth vnto vs as a schoole-master is not knowne certainly so to be but by his teaching And if among many bad you would find a good one to whom you might commit your children this cannot be done but by hearing and examining his maner of teaching in which case though the man be a necessarie meanes whereby you learne his teaching yet the teaching it selfe is the marke whereby you know him to be such a man and distinguish him frâ—m all others And euen as the tree beareth his fruite and we seeke the tree principally for this end that by it as by a necessary meanes we may find the fruite and yet the fruite it sheweth vs is the onely marke that it is such a tree and if it be denied or doubted the tasting of the fruite wil proue it and distinguish it from all the trees in the ground beside So likewise as he saith the Church expoundeth the faith vnto vs and we seeke the Church principally for this end that by it as by the meanes we may learne the truth and yet this truth which it sheweth vs may be the marke to assure vs it is such a Church and to distinguish it from all other Churches in the world Therefore for the Church to teach the faith and the faith to be a note of the Church are not opposite but onely diuers and so may both be true as a light vpon a watch-tower in the darke night may be the onely marke whereby to find the tower and yet the tower it self holdeth out the light and sheweth it and is the meanes that the traueller seeth it § 28. Thirdly true faith is a thing included in the true Church and as it were inclosed in her bellie as S. August speakâ—th Psal 57. vpon these words Errauerunt ab vtero loquuti sunt falsa In ventre Ecclesiae saith he veritas manet quisquis ab hoc ventre separatus fuerit necesse est vt falsa loquatur Therefore like as if a man had gold in his bellie we must first find the man before we can come to the gold it selfe so we must first by other markes find out the true Church which hath this gold of true faith hidden in her bellie before we come to see this gold in it selfe since especially we cannot see it vnlesse she open her mouth and deliuer it neither can we being borne spiritually blind certâ—nly know it to be true and not counterfetted gold but by giuing credite to her testimonie of it according as S. Augustine saith Euangelio non crederem nisi me Ecclesiae authoritas commoueret lib. 9. Epist cap. 3. For if we had not the testimonie of the Church hâ—w should we be infallibly sure that there were any Gospell at all or how could we know that those bookes which beare title of the Gospell according to S Matthew Marke Luke Iohn were true canonicall Scriptures rather then those of Nicodemus and S. Thomas bearing the same name and title of the Gospell The Answer 1 This is his third reason and may be concluded thus That which is included in the Church is no mark of the Church But the true faith is included in the Church Ergo. The second proposition whereof that faith is a thing included in the Church and as it were inclosed in her belly is true and he hath well affirmed it out of Austine but yet it is worth the enquiring to demand how he wil reconcile himself herein with his fellowes For a Bellar. de not â—ccl c 2. a Iesuite writeth that true doctrine and pure from all error may be in the false Church for if this be so then is he not certaine that the true faith is inclosed in the true Church and he must needs speake vntruths which is deuided from the belly of the Church For mine owne part I think that Bellarmine lieth but yet it becomes not the Iesuit thus to crosse him and then in b §. 35. the next discourse so highly to extoll their vnitie 2 But the first proposition that because it is included in the Church and the Church teacheth it therefore it can be no marke of the Church is denied because true faith is inclosed in the Church not obscurely as gold is in a mans belly so as c Ioseph de bello Iud. l. 6. c. 15. we reade the Iewes vsed to swallow it thereby to hide it from their enemies but as a candle in a lanterne or a light in his watch-tower discouering both it selfe and the place that holdeth it which gold in a mans belly cannot do And therefore as a light standing in the window in a darke night is a good mark to find the house though otherwise it be included in the houâ—â— so the true faith being included in the bosome of the Church not as gold that is buried in a mans bowels but as a candle standing in a lanterne by it owne light can guide vs infallibly to the Church d 1. Tim. 3.15 Apoc. 1.20 Pro. 6.23 which is Gods house enlightened by his truth Neither did S. Austine in the words alledged thinke the contrary as may appeare by that which followeth within twentie lines after By the face of truth I know Christ the truth it selfe by the face of truth I know the Church partaker of the truth Which words shew plainly that S. Austine thought the Church was to be knowne by the truth which it contained as by it owne fauour and proper countenance as children are knowne one from another by their owne countenance and complexion which shineth in their faces And though the Church by opening her mouth deliuer vs this truth yet is she found by no marke but by this truth it selfe as a darke house is found by no meanes but by the light contained therein though it selfe by opening the window deliuer vs this light and the firmament is seene by the light of the Sunne though it selfe hold out the Sunne vnto vs. 3 Thus far then we agree that the Church containeth the light of the truth in her bosome and that she openeth her mouth and deliuereth this truth vnto vs but that by other markes we must find out the Church afore we can see this truth is the Iesuites conceit And so is the rest that followeth concerning our knowledge of the Gospell vpon the Churches testimonie for I haue shewed e §. 9. Digr 12. before that the Scriptures and the Sunne are both knowne by their owne light and the Church teacheth the Gospel by her ministery but proueth it not by her authoritie Neither did S. Austine meane otherwise f Lib. contra epist fundam c.