therefore we confesse that their subiectes ought to obey their ciuile commaundements which may be kept without the breach of Gods law and that not onely for feare but also for conscience sake Thus farre Zanchius whose iudgement in this pointe will be esteemed of I suppose hereafter when all that either is or can be sayd by any man to the contrary will fall to the ground or vanish like smoake If it be saide that Zanchius writeth truely but that my allegation of his wordes is altogether impertinent for that the Bishops of Geneua had neuer any setled right in the ciuile gouernement of that citty I am not the man that will either iustify mine owne discretion or impugne any thinge which may bee brought for the ciuile proceedinges of that state or of any other so as they carry no false groundes of Diuinity with them which may prooue daungerous vnto our owne such as haue bene since published for the authorizing of subiectes in many cases to depose their Princes Christ refused to be a deuider of priuate mens inheritances and then surely it doth not become me to be a decider of any titles to countries citties or kingdomes I pray for all and will not further meddle with any Now it remaineth that hauing made relation vnto you of the premises as you haue heard I should also acquaint you more particularly with the alteration that was made at Geneua in the order and forme of the gouernemente of the Church Wherein you shall finde some greater variety both of actions and pollicy M. Beza speaking of the reformation of religion in that citty sayth that Christes Gospell was established there mirabiliter wonderously A wonder the common saying is doth last but nine dayes but that wonderfull course which he speaketh of will not bee forgotten I suppose in hast As you haue heard that the Bishop of Geneua was dealt withall for the principality of that City so was he vsed as touching his Bishopricke The Ministers cryed out that his Ecclesiasticall iurisdiction was as vnlawfull as his ciuile Wherevpon the Bishopricke was dissolued and that forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement vtterly abolished whereby that citty had bene ruled in Church-causes from the time that first it receiued the profession of christianity Together with the ouerthrow of which Bishopricke all the orders constitution and lawes of the Church which had beene in framing by all the learned men in christendome euer since the Apostles times were at one stroake quite chopte of and wholy abrogated vnder pretence forsooth of the name of cannon lawes the popes lawes and I wot not what Wherein the ministers dealt as wisely in mine opinion as if some king succeeding fower or fiue of his predecessors whome he hated should therevpon ouerthrow all the lawes that eyther they or any other of his predecessors had euer made before him Maister Caluin being charged by some as it seemeth with the rashnesse which was vsed at Geneua in this point doth excuse it thus in effect vz. that they deale therein as men doe with rotten houses they ouerthrewe all the whole forme of ecclesiasticall building as once as it were into a rude heape out of the which they might the better make choyse and take of that olde stuffe as much as liked them to build withall againe afterward Indeede there are many builders in these dayes of such a kinde of humor Nothing will content them but that they build themselues And therein also they are very inconstant Now this must downe now that must vppe now this must bee chaunged and that must bee enlarged here the workemen mistooke me this is not in good proportion away with it I will haue this square chaunged into a rounde and this rounde altered into a square A fitter metaphore could not well haue beene found to haue shewed the vnstayed minds of such manner of reformers But to proceed The auncient forme of ecclesiasticall gouernement with all the Elders thereof being thus ouerturned as the citezens in the framing of their newe ciuill gouernement had an especiall eye to the manner of the ciuill gouernement of their neighbour citties and states adioyning so had both the magistrates and the ministers at the first also great regard of the ecclesiasticall pollicy in the same citties relying principally vppon their forme of Church-gouernement and vppon their orders and ceremonyes in that behalfe prouided But this Church Modell was also shortly after wholy misliked For the ministers perceiued that as they thought the ciuill magistrats had too great authorie giuen vnto them in church-church-causes that they themselues had a great deale too little Maister Caluin speaking of this manner of reformation calleth it but a correcting of the Church And Beza yeeldeth a reason why Farellus Viretus contented thēselues with such a simple Church-gouernement vz. in effecte to my vnderstanding not that they were ignorant what insufficiency there was in it but because in such a hurly burly and great chaunge of things they could haue no better and afterwardes when they woulde faine haue bettered themselues the rest of the ministers that should haue ioyned with them therein were fearefull to attempt so soone any new alteration The same yeare that Geneua was assaulted vz. 1 5 3 6. Maister Caluin came thether and was there admitted non concionator tantum hoc enim primum recusarat sed etiam sacrarum liter arum doctor not onely for their preacher for he had refused that before but also for a doctor of the holy scriptures In which place hee was scarcely warme when like a man of courage reiecting all feare hee tooke in hand to frame a new platforme for the gouernement of that Church or as Maister Bezaes word is ecclesiam componere to compound the Church being of likelyhood before in his opinion tanquam dissoluta scopa as a dissolute Chaos and vndigested bundell And in very short time hee did so farre prouaile therein as that hee caused the cittizens being assembled together to abiure their former popish gouernement as they termed it by Bishops and to sweare to a certaine draught of discipline paucis capitibus comprehensam comprehended as Beza saith vnder a fewe heades What the forme of this draught was I finde it not any where mentioned But whatsoeuer it was it appeareth that both he Farellus and Viretus so vsed themselues in the administration of it as that the rest of the ministers and the chiefest of the cittie grew quickly very weary of it For through their rough dealing in diuers pointes especially in opposing themselues against the orders of Berne before that time receiued there and particularly for their obstinate refusing to administer the Lordes supper with vnleauened bread according to a resolution giuen to that effecte by a Synode at Lausanna of the ministers of Berne which resolution since Beza calleth iniquissimum decretum for these and such like causes I say they were al three of them within nine monethes after
their setting vppe of their short plat of discipline bannished the cittie The causes before mentioned of this their bannishment were giuen out thus in generall termes Tyranni esse voluerunt in liberam ciuitatem voluerunt nouum pontificatum reuocare They would haue beene tyrants ouer a free cittie they would haue recalled a new papacy And here beganne the Consistorian humor which raigneth nowe amongst the factious sorte in England to shew it selfe but yet in a more secrete sorte by their priuate letters one to an other Their fauourers and partakers whome they lefte behinde them at Geneua presently after their departure entered into faction and refused to receiue the communion with vnleauened bread as it had beene ordered they should doe by the said Synode at Lausanna The ministers that remained in the cittie after them were greatly disgraced For in that they continued their ministery there without the newe Discipline they were said to hold otiosam functionem an idle function The Senate of two hundred that expelled the said three preachers was termed by Caluin tumultuos a perditorum hominum factio a tumultuoas faction of rakehells castaway es Beza saith that in that councell the greater part ouercame the better But then by the way they were not all of them such manner of men as Caluin reporteth The chiefest magistrates of the cittie euen the Syndickes were termed factionum et discordiarum duces the ringleaders of factions and dissentions They were resembled to Nabucadnezar and the exiles to Daniell And generally they gaue it out against all their backe frendes that they went about to ouerthrowe the Church and that they had obdurated themselues against the Lord Iesus Christ. These and such like speaches you must thinke were giuen out then secretly but since they are published in printe for other ministers instructions which may hereafter receiue any checke about that kinde of discipline Hetherto for ought I finde the pretended discipline had no great successe I must therfore proceede on forward These three preachers being thus banished their friendes at Geneua were maruailous earnest to haue them thither againe Many letters were procured from certaine churches and learned men to the magistrates in that behalfe as you shall partly perceaue by diuerse epistles set out vnder the title or together with Caluins epistles Euery one likewise in the Cittie that held for the discipline did his best with the people But Maister Caluin was the man whom they all of them most desired for the rest being else where placed they cared not much Vnto these endeuours may be added some very wise courses taken by Maister Caluin in the time that he discontinued from Geneua Cardinall Sadolet hauing written to the Geneuians in dislike of the alteration both of their state and of the Romish religion admonishing them to returne to their olde byace Maister Caluin aunswered him and iustified as he thought meete their proceedinges therein to their very good contentment Also where some that of his owne friends had greatly laboured to discredite the ministers of that cittie which were lefte to the griefe of the magistrates endeuoured to haue brought them vtterly into contempt for executing their ministerie without the pretended Discipline c. Maister Caluin staied that course by writing vnto them that he doubted not but that their ministers deliuered vnto them the chiefe heads of Christian religion which were necessary to saluation and that also they ioyned thereunto the right vse of the Sacramentes And then saith he where those two pointes are performed illic substantia ministery viget there is the substance of the ministerie and a lawfull honour and obedience is to be giuen to that Ministery Lastly the mutinie mentioned which was about refusall to communicate with vnleauened bread he likewise appeased by perswading the authours of it that it was a matter of indifferencie for the which they ought not to disquiet the peace of the Church By which occasions together with the former sutes mentioned the Citie as I iudge hauing conceaued a better opinion of maister Caluin then they had before and supposing that if he came againe amongst them he would vse a great deale more mildnesse and moderation in his proceedinges then hee had earst done they were at the last contented after two yeares bannishment and more to recall him vnto them vz in the yeare 1541. Whilest his friendes were labouring for him as you haue heard he himselfe perceiuing that hee shoulde returne thither was still harping to his friendes vppon this string how he might haue the Citie so bound to the forme of Discipline which he had in his head as that afterwardes they might not when they list start from it And therefore as soone as he was come thither hee imployed his studie that way especially At the first offering of his paines to the Senate he told him that the Church there could not possibly continue except there were same certaine forme of Church gouernement established Whereupon the Senate ordered at his request that he and fiue other of the Ministers should conferre together about such a forme as they thought meet and that hauing so done they should offer the same to the consideration of the said Senate Here then you shall see the strength of maister Caluins wit He wisely saw that notwithstanding the Bishops ecclesiasticall authoritie had been vtterly disgraced and was thereupon reiected as being forsooth Popish and tyrannicall yet it was not good for the Church that the ministers should bate the citie one ace of an ecclesiasticall authoritie aequiualent at the least to that which their Bishops formerly had enioyed amongest them Howbeit he well perceiued withall that for the bringing of this matter about there must be verie good pollicie and circumspection vsed or else that it would be a thing impossible to bring a people hauing gotten their libertie into the like or a worse seruitude then they were in before His plot therefore as I take it was as followeth He laboured to perswade the people and the Magistrates that as there was a ciuile Senate for the gouernement of the Citie and the territories thereof in ciuile causes so by the word of God there should be an ecclesiasticall Senate for the gouernment of the same Citie and territories conteining aboue twentie parishes in causes ecclesiasticall And to this purpose he wanted not I warrant you very many probable reasons The persons that should beare authoritie in this Senate I nothing doubt but that he could haue been very well contented they should haue been all of them ministers euen as the ciuile gouernment did then wholly consist of ciuile persons But by reason of the great authoritie that the preachers had before intituled the ciuile magistrates vnto for the bannishment of their Bishop for their dealing in Church causes wherewithall they were in some sorte possessed hee very wisely considered with Farellus and Viretus that if they tooke that course
you of vs or least those things which we haue written of Ecclesiasticall policie properly against that Antichristian tyrannie as necessitie required are taken by some in that sense as if euer we had meant to compel to our order those churches that thinke otherwise then we doo of it and the gouernors of them agreeing els with vs in the truth of doctrine agreeable to the word of God and that except they followed our order we accounted otherwise of them then their godlines and dignitie and mutuall brotherhood doth require c. Farre be this arrogancie from vs. Quis vllum nobis in vllam Ecclesiam imperium tribuit Who doth giue vs authority ouer anie church Far be it from vs that we should thinke so the substantiall matters be kept there ought nothing to be graunted to antiquitie nothing to custome nothing to the circumstances of places times and persons c. Againe in his booke against D. Sarauia hauing spoken of the tyrannie of Popish Bishops hee maketh this exception Neque tamen But wee doo not therefore accuse all Archbishops and Bishops now so called of tyranie For what arrogancie were that Nay so as they doo imitate the examples of the olde holy Bishops and indeuor as much as they can to reforme the house of God so miserably deformed according to the rule of Gods word why may we not acknowledge al of them now so called Archbishops and Bishops obey them and honor them with all reuerence So far we are from that which some obiect vnto vs most falsly and most impudently as though we tooke vppon vs to prescribe to anie Church in anie place our examples to be followed like vnto those vnwise men who account wel of nothing but of that which they doo themselues And to the same effect a little before If now the reformed Churches of England being vnderpropped with the authoritie of Bishoppes and Archbishops do continue as this hath happened to that Church in our memorie that she hath had men of that calling not onely most notable martyrs of God but also excellent pastors and doctors Fruatur sane ista singulari dei benificentia quae vtinam illi sit perpetua Let her truly inioy this singular blessing of God which I wish may be perpetuall vnto her Furthermore it should seeme that Zanchius as moderate and learned a man as euer fauoured the pretended Elderships was appointed some 12 or 16. yeres since to draw a confâ—ssion of religion for the Churches of France others as Melanchthon had done the Augustan confession for Germanie Accordingly hee drew it and in the same speaking of Bishops he vseth these wordes Non improbamius patres c. Wee doo not disalow the fathers in that after a diuers waie of dispensing the word and gouerning the Church they multiplied diuerse orders of Ministers seeing it was lawfull for them so to do as it is vnto vs and seeing it appeareth that they did it for honest causes appertaining at that time to the order decencie and edification of the Church And in the next article Hac ratione c. By this reason vz. that the nurseries of dissentions and of schismes may be taken away wee thinke that these thinges which were ordained before the Councell of Nice concerning Archbishops nay as touching the foure Patriarches may be excused and defended When this booke was perused and this clause found in it then forsoth a deuise was had for the staying of it vnder pretence that now it was thought more meete that there should be a harmonie made of all the confessions of diuers churches But Zanchius himselfe maketh this the chiefe cause if I vnderstand him why his booke dyd mislike some of them for that hee had written as before is mentioned of Bishops For so hee sayth Magnus quidam vir c. A certaine great man meaning Beza as it is supposed did write vnto mee of this matter as followeth Your confession was read by mee and N. others with great delight It is written most learnedly and in a most exquisite methode and if you except that which you adde towards the end touching Archbishops and the Hierarchie mihi summopere placuit it pleased mee exceedingly Vpon this occasion as it seemeth Zanchius printed his said confession with certaine annotations In the which annotations he sheweth three reasons for his allowance of Archbishops Bishops The first is grounded vpon the practise of the primitiue church presently after the Apostles times the second is for that hee thought it his dutie in the draught of his said booke to haue regard to those reformed churches which retaine both Bishops Archbishops and the third because all the reformed Churches generally although they haue chaunged the names yet in effect they doe keepe the authoritie as where they haue superintendents and generall superintendents Nay saith he where these new base Latine names are not admitted Ibi tamen solent esse aliquot primarij penes quos fere tota est authoritas yet there are in those places vsually certaine chiefemen that doe in a manner beare all the sway But I pray you be pleased that I may deliuer vnto you the maner of his setting down of his first reason and that in his owne words for they carry with them a notable condemnation of other mens great pride rashnes Cum haenc conscriberem fidei confessionem c. When I writ this confession of faith I writ all the thinges in it of a good conscience and as I beleeued so I freely spake the scriptures teaching men so to doe And my faith first of all and simply doth rely vpon the word of God then somewhat also vpon the common consent of the whole ancient Catholicke Church if the same bee not repugnant to the scriptures For I beleeue that what thinges were defined and receiued by the auncient Fathers assembled in the name of the Lord with a generall consent of them all and without any contradiction of the holy Scriptures the same surely although they be not of the same authoritie with holy Scriptures yet did they proceed from the holy Ghost Heereof it commeth to passe that those things which are of this nature neither would I neither dare I with a good conscience disallow them And what can be shewed more certainly out of histories out of the councels out of the writings of all the ancient fathers then that those orders of Ministers of the which we haue spoken haue bene ordained and receiued in the Church by the generall consent of all christian common-wealths And who then am I that should presume to reproue that which the whole Church hath approued This is true and religious humilitie Thus all graue and discreet godly men haue euerwritten Those that contemne all the learned Fathers that went before them doe open a windowe to their owne discredite by those that shall come after them That which this godly and great learned man ascribeth to the
priest prophets if they be Christs substitutes as he is a prophet and kings by the same proprietie of speech if they be Christs immediat substitutes as he is a king And so I will go to the next chapter wherby you shall perceaue more particularly that call them as ye list they challenge authoritie like princes or rather popes to deale in many matters CAP. XXV In vvhat causes more particularly their elderships are to deale as they pretend YOu haue heard before of certaine of the seuerall and ioint offices of their counterfeit church-aldermen and likewise in the chapter how they challenge to themselues in their elderships the whole gouernment in all church-causes Now for that it might bee doubted how farre these words Church causes should extend they haue taken great paines to cleare their meaning in that behalfe and so haue vsed the matter to my vnderstanding as that they haue left out no one cause of what nature soeuer but that either directly or indirectly by hooke or crooke they haue brought it vnder their lee and with-within their compasse Read their sayings and then iudge as you see cause All crimes saith Knox that by the lavv of God deserue death deserue also excommunication as vvilfull murderers adulterers sorcerers vvitches coniurers charmers giuers of drinke to destroy children open blasphemers as denyers of the truth raylors against the Sacraments c. And hovv will they proceed in the execution of this censure vpon such manner of sinnes the same order doth specifie A superintendent must direct his letters of summons to the parish church where the offender dvvelleth or if the offender haue no certaine dvvelling place then to the chiefe tovvne and best reformed church in that diocesse vvhere the crime was committed appointing to the offender a certain day and place vvhen vvher he shal appeare before the superintendent his assessors to heare that crime tried as touching the truth of it and to ansvver for himselfe vvhy the sentence of excommunication should not be pronounced against him Here are then new summons and nevv citations Here is authoritie challēged not only to appoint such offices and to vse such iurisdiction but that which seemeth strāge to me indeed to trie a murderer and such like offendors as touching the very facts whether they committed them or not Do they impanall a iurie thinke you as we do in England for triall of the fact or are the elders of the consistorie iudges of the facts as they be of law That is not expressed But what if the partie vpon his summons appeare not That is no great matter Inquisition being taken of the crime he is the next Sunday to be excōmunicated not for his contempt in not appearing but for the very fact it selfe as in their form of excommunication in such cases it is expressed For the inquisition of the crime taken in his wilfull absence shall be a conuiction for his soule let his body escape the temporall magistrats hands as it may This is round dealing A man is condemned of murder and neuer heard for sitting but of one citation in a matter of life and death out goeth their excōmunication Call they this proceeding after the new discipline But to follow this case to the end It happeneth that this murderer is aftervvard pardoned by the magistrat but yet though hee professe repentance he may not be receaued till after fortie daies of triall and vntill hee hath satisfied the kinred and friends of the man that vvas slaine You may say what if they will not be satisfied That I warrant you is prouided for Then ought the church to put moderation to the vnreasonable in case the ciuile magistrat hath not so done before It is very well what the king will not they may Besides when it is sayd that the church ought to put such a moderation you must vnderstand that except the parties do agree to be so put out flieth againe as I suppose their foresaid slipperie censure Againe for all other offences that fall not vnder the ciuile svvord and yet are slanderous and offensiue to the church as fornication drunkennesse vsed svvearing curssed speaking chiding fighting bravvling and common contempt of the order of the church breaking of the sabboth vvāton vain vvords vncomly gestures negligēce in hearing of preaching or obtaining from the Lords table vvhen it is publikely ministred suspicion of auarice or of pride superfluitie or riotousnesse in cheare or raiment c. All these likewise do come by certaine degrees within the compasse of their censures all according to the word of God you must suppose or els you do them wrong Vnto these may be also further added ministers apparell vvomens lasciuious dissolute or too sumptuous attire either publikely or priuatly dauncing all games that bring losse stage-plaies of all sorts haunting of tauerns or tipling houses all inordinat liuers and all such like matters according to the discretion of the eldership cuirelinquenda sunt vvhervnto they are to be left From which discretion it proceeded as I take it that for some disorders committed in Edenburgh about a Robin-hood which the prouost and bailifs would haue staied the vvhole multitude vvere holden excommunicate But yet I haue not done with these causes They grow vpon me more and more And it is no reason that our owne brotherhood of England should be pretermitted They vz. the elderships shall suffer no levvd customs saith the admonitioner to remaine in their parishes either games or othervvise You know their meaning Maipoles Ales maigames moricedances all must downe How doth Robin-hood stick in their stomacks Besides all that haue liued vvith offence to the congregation although they haue suffered the punishment of the lavv for it yet because they offended therby both God the church they are vvithin the limits of the elderships to be censured by them The demōstrator is also very bountiful The office of the church gouernors saith he is to decide controuersies in doctrine and maners so far as pertaineth to conscience and the church censures That is if any shall refuse their said decision they will not indeed whip him or hang him those are ciuile punishments But so farre as the church-censures will reach haue at him Will he run to trouble his neighbour either to the Chancerie to the Kings-bench or cōmon pleas may haue both cōscience and iustice of his eldership at home Such a fellovv shal pay for it It is wisely therfore considered of the humble motioner where he telleth the lords of her maiesties priuie coūsaile that the church is to censure such a partie vvho is apparantly troublesome and contentious and vvithout reasonable cause and vpon meere vvill and stomacke doth vex molest his brother to trouble the countrie Apparātly troublesome that is apparantly to their conceits without reasonable cause vz. to be approued by thē And how can they know how reasonable the cause is except
Bishoppes grounding themselues vppon one of Cartwrightes principles That any increase of authoritie being added to a Church-Minister dooth cleane chaunge his Ministerie and maketh it a new Ministerie Whervpon they conclude that Archbishoppes and Bishoppes hauing receyued an increase of theyr authorities by diuerse Councelles c. are become to bee of a newe Ministerie neuer ordayned by Christ nor his Apostles and so consequently vnlawfull and to bee abolished The follie of this collection hath beene shewed manie wayes both by reasons and by examples but yet they haue not beene satisfied But nowe you shall see they are put to silence for euer For Beza is peremptorie to the contrarie of that which they haue so inforced In his booke agaynst Doctor Sarauia speaking of a place of Ieromes how Bishoppes were ordayned for orders sake c. hee sayth in effecte That when they had such authoritie giuen then for orders sake Mutatio non suit in re ipsa id'est in ipso ordine sed tantùm in ordinis modo There was no chaunge made in the thinge it selfe that is in the order but in the manner or measure of the order And afterwards more plainely where hee setteth downe another manner of principle than Cartwrightes vz. That wee must distinguish betweene the nature of a thing and that which adhereth vnto it accidentally because Eo in aliud cōmutato vel sublato res ipsa permanet The accident beeing chaunged or taken away the thing it selfe remaineth Whereupon if I vnderstande him he groweth to this issue That the increase of any such authority as is before mentioned or the alteration of the manner or order is not of the essence of the Ministery but a thing that is accidentall and may be chaunged according to the circumstaunces of times and places And hee bringeth this example Accidentale fuit c. It was accidentall c. Vt vnusquispiam iudicio caeierorum compresbyterorum delectus presbyterio 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 esset permaneret That one beeing chosen by the iudgement of the rest of his fellow-priests or Elders should be the President or the Prelate ouer the presbytery and so continue You will aske mee perhaps how this geare comes about that Beza is so opposite to Cartwright I will tell you my conceit I suppose that matters of their pretended Discipline are growen to greater ripenes in Geneua then they are thankes be to God in England and that therfore Beza is more franke to let vs see what they generallie shoote at then Cartwright dare bee as yet For howsoeuer Cartwright presumed to tell vs as it seemeth vntrulie that their moderator forsooth should be chosen but for one action only and that Caluin being chosen to that office for two yeares so as I take it from two yeares to two yeares misliked that small preheminence should so long remayne with one which in time might breede inconuenience and that Beza also misliked it for that cause Yet now you see that Beza is far from that base conceit thinketh that that office maie bee permanent and further saith that to ordaine it so now certè reprehendi nec potest nec debet it neyther can nor ought surely to bee reprehended And his reason is this for that it hath beene an order that one should bee so chosen to haue such a permanent preheminece in the Church euer since Saint Markes time Nay he is come to this that he is content to yeald in effect that the institution of an Archbishop is agreable to the word of God vz. ex illa generali et verissima Apostolica regula c. according to that generall true Apostolicall rule which appoynteth that all thinges should bee done orderly in the house of God Est igitur or do c. There is therefore saith hee an order in it selfe and by it selfe prescribed by God but the reason or vse of that order and the manner of it dependeth vppon the circumstances of times places and persons and is as men speake according to Lawes positiue Nowe if these thinges that Beza writteth bee true and that he himselfe peraduenture could bee well inough pleased to enioye such an office if the sayde circumstances of time and place might serue his turne to obtaine it then we perceaue that such additions of titles and preheminence so he and his fellowes may haue them do make no such alteration of the essence of the ministerie as with vs is pretended There is great barking against the church of England for that by Act of parliament some partes of the Canon Law are retained and to bee vsed by our Bishops for the better gouernment of the Church insomuch as the very name of the Canon law is become odious the commō sort of simple men of the factious crue verily supposing that the name of such a law rule or institution is popish vnlawfull and diuelish and therfore they crie out crucifie it crucifie it awaie with it wee will not be ruled by it we will none of it As though they shoúld saye we are lawlesse men for rules and orders we detest them whatsoeuer seemeth good in our own eyes that we will doe at the least if we euer yeald our obediēce to any churchlaw it shall bee surelie of our own making sie vppon all former Councels sie vppon all those decisions which the auncient fathers made sie vpon all old and auncient constitutions And thus in effect they write speake in their libels and ordinarie table-talke whereas notwithstanding if there be anie thing in the Canon-law that will serue their purposes they can be contēt to steale it thence to take to themselues thereby the commendation which is due to the true authors fathers of it Cartwright his fraternitie in their essentiall draught of discipline haue drawen more then seuen partes of eight of it out of the Canon-lawe and auncient constitutions Viretus perceiuing but too late what hindrance grew to the platforme of their new discipline by the vtter abolishing of the Canon-law at once and as it were in a furie which he supposed did wold still haue bridled princes if it had been retained and still in force sheweth his dislike of such rashnes in these wordes They thought it a goodly reformation in the Church to abolish all the Canons decrees with the good statutes which the auncient fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to mayntaine the good discipline in the church The chiefe point indeed that grieued Viretus as there it appeareth at large was this because Princes by that meanes had drawen their necks frō vnder the yoke of discipline A matter so much misliked by them as that he is flatte of opinion that it had beene better for the Church to haue kept the old Pope still then by abrogating of the Canon law and in giuing to Princes so great authoritie in causes ecclesiasticall so to haue subiected her selfe to a new kind of papacie
against him doth traÌ„slate for dioces parish as in this place he doth it with a most brasen forehead The councell of Nice of Antioch of Carthage and of Sardis directly prouing that Bishops only had authority to excommunicate Cartwright giueth no other answere vnto them but this that Maister Caluin saith how Bishops in excommunicating after that manner dealt therein ambitiously Athanasius saith that Dionysius Bishop of Alexandria had the Churches of Pentapolis committed to his care Cartwright saith that care importeth not iurisdiction and so as to the Councell of Nice and of Antioch Cyprian saith the cause of heresies and schismes is this that Priests wil not obey their BB. Cartwright that answereth that is iu effect if his vnpreaching Aldermen will not obay their Pastors Epiphanius speaking of one Peter a Bishop of Alexandria saith this is the custome that the Bishop of Alexandria should haue the Ecclesiastiasticall gouernment of all Egipt Thebais Mariota Libia Ammonica Mariotes Pentapolis Whereupon Cartwright gloseth thus that is besides his own church he procured the good of other churches rouÌ„d about him Again Epiphanius of one Miletus an Archbishop that he was subiect or vnder the said Peter Archbishop of Alexandria Cartwright saith that euery Bishop of name was called an Archbishop And where it is said Miletus was vnder Peter that is vnder him in honour and not subiect vnto him saith Cartwright contrary to the manifest words and meaning of the author Theodoret Bishop of Cyprus saith of himself that he had the gouernment ouer 800. Churches Cartwright saith in effect that he lied that his words coÌ„cerning his care in gouerning those churches being spoken of himselfe want not suspition and that hee was condemned for writing against Cirill neuer mentioning how hee was wrongfully condemned in his absence and afterward restored I omit a number of their other shifts and presumptuous dealings with the fathers As of Epiphanius For him it is knowen of what authority he is c. it were better to laie his words against Aerius vpon some counterfaite and false Epiphanius to spare his credit Likewise of Ambrose Many errors corrupt expositions are found in his works in his exposition vpon the place to the Philippians a child may see how violently he forceth the Text. And also their reiecting of Councels by heaps c. wher they haue no coulor how they may peruert them But yet I may not let this escape my fingars that Cartwright whether for his owne glory or else that God would haue him to be the instrument of his owne shame is well content rather then he will want testimonies to encounter with the authority of Bishops to sort both himselfe all his followers in the number of those that euer since the Apostles times haue repined at that authority thereupon haue beene ouerruled by all the auncient Fâ—thers and Councels as busie bodies Schismaticks You shall heare his wordes and then iudge whether I haue mistaken them To what ende both in the Nicene councell and in many other holden more then two hundred yeares after are there found so manie canons for the acknowledging of the authority of one Metropolitane in euery Province for the honor which he should haue the name he should be called by for the place where hee should sit at their meetings for the bounds of their circuit Doe not all these declare that there were some which were ennemies to that authoritye c. To this I might adde his defence to Aerius and his confutation of Epiphanius not without some discredit to Sainct Augustine Lastlie whatsoeuer is saide or may be said hereafter out of all the auncient Fathers and Histories and out of all the generall Councels concerning the saide gouernment of the Church by Bishops Archbishops and Patriarches of their institution authority title circuites and prerogatiues Cartwright doth take vpon him most boldlie most falsly to prescribe vnto vs certain rules how we must vnderstaÌ„d them or otherwise there is not one of them that will be allowed of I blush in his behalfe I assure you to sette it downe and am ashamed that anie man bearing the name of a Christian shoulde deale so like an Impostor But this it is That it maye appeare saith he what the Fathers and Councelles doe mean when they giue more to the Bishop of anye one churche then to the Elder of the same church and that no man bee deceaued by the name of Gouernour or ruler ouer the rest to fancy any such authority and domination or Lordship as wee see vsed in our church it is to bee vnderstoode that amongest the Pastors Elders and Deacons of euery particular church and in the meetings and companies of the Ministers or Elders of diuerse churches there was one chosen by the voyces suffrages of them al or the most part which did propound the matters that were to be handled whether they were difficulties to be soluted or punishments censures to be decreed vppon those that had faulted or whether there were elections to be made or what other matter so euer occasion was giuen to intreate off the which also gathered the voyces reasons of those which had interest to speake in such causes which also did pronounce according to the number of the voyces which were giuen which was also the mouth of the rest to admonish or to comfort or to rebuke sharply such as were to receaue admonishment consolation or rebuke which in a worde did moderate that whole action which was done for that time they were assembled c. And must we thus vnderstande the Fathers generall Councels Hee might as truely saie that the present forme of our ecclesiasticall gouernment in England vnder her maiestie by Archbishops and Bishops is euen the very same maÌ„ner of church-gouernment that he his followers looke for the right platform of those Elderships which haue so mightely bewitched them Men that once haue passed the limits of modestie may afterwards saie write what they list The ancient Fathers haue deserued farre otherwise of the Church of Christ then that for the maintenaunce of such a forgery as the pretended form of discipline is they shold be vsed after any such manner I would wish all men that are of this proud presumptuous humor to peruse the books which S Augustine hath written against Iulianus the Pelagian There they shall find the very same contemptuous spirit in Iulianus that raigneth in theÌ„selues exalteth it selfe so greatly against the godly learned fathers as also on the other side they shall there see the fruites of Gods spirit vz. in what reuerend account verie high estimation S. Augustine had such worthy holy men by name as here you haue heard very contumeliously disgraced childishly neglected disdaynfully contemned and most proudlie reiected Ita intellexit Ambrosius ita Cyprianus ita Gregorius c. So Ambrose vnderstood such a place of the
and ordination of Ministers and of theyr disagreement about the same Cap. 16. fol. 183. Of theyr Aldermens ioynt-office with the ministers in binding loosing of sins of their disagreemēt therin C. 17. f. 190 Of the first institution of the old Deacons and of the disagreemēt about the new disciplinary Deacons Cap. 18. fol. 198 Of certayne Widdows which are made Church-officers of the disagreement which is about them Cap. 19. fol. 215. Of the charge to bee imposed vppon euery parish by meanes of the pretended Eldership Cap. 20. fol. 227. Of theyr desire that those thinges which haue beene taken by Sacriledge from the Church might bee restored againe to the mayntenance of theyr Elderships Cap. 21. fol. 233 They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to theyr pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall Cap. 22. fol. 250. In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists Cap. 23. fol. 258. Their disagreement in suppressing the authoritie of princes in church-causes in the aduancing of their own C. 24. f. 268 In what causes more particularly theyr Elderships are to deale as they pretend Cap. 25. fol. 281. Those things they reprooue as vnlawfull in others they allow in themselues Cap. 26. fol. 298 How they deale with the auncient Fathers Ecclesiasticall Histories and generall Councels when they are alledged against them Cap. 27. fol. 329. Theyr dealing with all the new writers and manye reformed churches when they make against them Cap. 28. fol. 354. Howe they depend vppon theyr owne Synodes and fauourers Cap. 29. fol. 364. How falsely they alledge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish-Bishops and Elders Cap. 30. fol. 381. How and with what disagreement they wrest and misconstrue the Scriptures in the behalfe of theyr discipline C. 31. f. 396. What account the solliciters for this pretended gouernement doe make each of other Cap. 32. fol. 416. Of the prayse disprayse of this pretended regiment C. 33. f. 421 Of theyr disagreement concerning the necessitie of the Consistoriall gouernement Cap. 34. fol. 436. Of the pretended commoditie that the Elderships would bringe with them and of the small fruites that they bringe foorth where they are Cap. 35. fol. 450. FINIS CHAP. I. Howe vnder pretence of the Prophetes loue to Syon some men would gladly set vp their owne fancies THe holy Prophet Esay foreseeing the miserable captiuitie which the Iews for their transgressions were to sustaine vnder the kinges of Babell did thinke it necessary to prepare their heartes to patience by assuring them that the Lord in his due time would worke their ioyfull and happy deliuerance To the which purpose amongst many other most notable perswasions prophecies he vseth these wordes for Syons sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes therof breake forth as the light and saluation therof as a burning lampe that is donec erigam piorum animos spe futurae salutis c vntill I may confirme the minds of the godly saith Caluin with the hope of their restitution againe so as they may vnderstand and be fully perswaded that God will be the deliuerer of his Church The false Prophet H.N. the moste illuminated father of the family of loue counterfaiting the imitation of the Prophet of God in this place doth take vppon him to tell the world of a farre greater captiuitie not of 70. yeares but of more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares that is euer since the Apostles times Wherein saith he darkenes of error hath ouershadowed the earth lumen vitae incognitum factum est the light of life hath been made vnknowen and the trueth hath been hid as vnder the maske of Popery vntill this day of loue He turneth the whole doctrine of our saluation into a vaine mysterie an allegoricall conceit of his own leauing the Church no mediator at all besides himselfe He hath framed a platforme or new kingdome and gospell of his owne inuention bearing this title Euangelium regni dei the gospell of the kingdome of God Into this kingdome as Vicegerentes he hath brought for our ministers his seniores sanctae intelligentiae Elders of the holy vnderstanding patres familiae Christi fathers of the family of Christ and for our Archbishops and Bishops his Primates or principall Elders his seniores parentes Elder fathers and I know not how many illuminated and deified gouernours And perseuering in these and in many other such like very grosse fond imaginations he lewdly presumeth to apply the said place of the Prophet to himselfe and his owne conceites for the better animating of his followers to sticke fast vnto him saying O Syon tua causa non silebo c O Syon for thy sake I will not hold my peace and for Ierusalems sake I will not rest vntill the righteousnes thereof breake forth as the light saluation thereof as a burning lampe that is in effect vntill the holy gouernment of the family of loue bee established vppon the earth T.C. a man I confesse not to be sorted with H.N. were it not vpon this occasion wil needs take vpō him likewise the person of the Prophet and to aduertise vs of a wonderfull seruitude that hath continued in the Church of God in effect with H.N. from the apostles times also which yet remaineth as he saith in the church of England From the which seruitude he reckoneth that it shall neuer be deliuered vntill it submit it selfe to be newly reformed again by the aduise of his deepe vnderstanding assisted with those that diligently wait vpon his illuminated deuises after the maner of Geneua To winne himselfe therefore the better credite for bringing this to passe hee laieth about him and would haue al things turned topsie turuie as they say euen the vpside downe Our ministery their callings our seruice our sacraments and all we haue is out of ioint Councels fathers histories they are but dishcloutes with him he shaketh them off as it were with a shrugge they are indeed as after it shal appeare no body in his handes but he flingeth them here and there at his pleasure He in like sorte with the assistance of his partakers hath framed after the fashion of Geneua a platforme and newe kingdome or rather an infinite number of litle petite kingdomes but yet euery one of them of an absolute power aswell ouer Lordes Earles Dukes Princes Kinges and Kingdomes as ouer the meanest whosoeuer vnder them This kingdome he would impose vpon this land Wherein for our Archbishops Bishops ministers c hee placeth his graund Elders whome he tearmeth pastors his second sort of Elders whome he tearmeth Doctors his third sorte of Elders whome he tearmeth Gouernors ioyning vnto them Deacons to carry their purses and widdows to wash their feete where neede shall require And with this deuise he is so possessed that hee
will improoue the vse of it where it is He also goeth further and protesteth that whilest he sustaineth the person that then he did meaning belike whilest he should be the chiefe pastor at Geneua hee would striue to the death for that forme of Discipline But yet toward the end he tempereth all againe in some sorte For else it had been a ridiculous matter to haue referred their doubtes to those Cities and withall to haue signified vnto them that thus and thus we are resolued and if you shall iudge otherwise we care not for your iudgements for we will surely sticke to our owne He therefore thus qualifieth this point saying nec morositate nostra fiet vt loco potius cedamus quam sententia we will not bee so wilfull as that wee minde rather to leaue our places then our opinions Meaning as I take it that seeing they had put their cause into their hands they would be content to stand to their directions You do looke I am sure to know to what purpose maister Caluin vsed all this Rhetoricke and what the matter was which hee desired at their handes He himselfe shall tell you as he told maister Bullinger Breuis summa est c. The summe thereof briefly is this that your honourable Senate may giue this aunswere vz that the forme of our Discipline which heretofore we haue followed is consentanea verbo dei agreeable to the word of God deinde nouitatem improbet and then let them reproue the newsanglenesse of our Citizens Indeed if he can get that aunswere it is to the matter and of likelyhood will serue his turne But what do the magistrates of Geneua all this while you will say Surely I tolde you before As soone as they could they writ and sent their letters to the said foure Cities Of those that came to Zuricke maister Bullinger writeth that they were but short and so I thinke we may iudge of the rest The effect of which letters was vz that they of those Cities would resolue them 1. How excommunication was to be vsed by the worde of God 2. Whether it might not be vsed by some other meanes then by a consistorie 3. What the practise of their Churches was in that point Vppon the receite of these letters euen as maister Caluin foresaw it would come to passe there were appointed in Zuricke foure the Consull and three Senators to consult with three of their learned Ministers what aunswere was meet to be giuen to the said three questions If the magistrates of Geneua had met with as good an orator as M. Caluin was that would haue layd open the qualities and proceedings of the Consistorian faction how they intermedled in all the common affayres of the citty how they vsed to keepe men from the Communion without yeelding any other reason why they do so but because soome of the godly bretheren forsooth were offended with them how if a man haue committed any offence for the which hee is punished and professeth his harty repentance for the same yet they will keepe him from the Communion vntill it please them to say that he is penitent inough which they doe as they affect the party If in their letters they had infourmed how vpon any light displeasure or rash information their wiues their children and seruauntes were called into the Disciplinarian Consistory a place for criminall persons so as thereby they were infamed how they affected popularity wholy which might endaunger the Magistrates of the Citty vppon any displeasure conceiued against them how they of the citty had beene compassed in the framinge of the platforme of the Consistory how although there was a pretence of a Senate yet one man did all and the rest were but attendants of his pleasure how by experience they found that theyr Bishop did neuer tyrannise more ouer them by his spiritual iurisdiction then now some one man did how the autority which had bene taught to belonge vnto them beeing ciuile Magistrates was wholy taken from them againe nothinge lefte vnto them but to bee the executioners of their Consistoriall mens pleasures If they had foresene how likely it was that M. Caluin would seeke to discredite them all to his vttermost had therfore signifyed vnto the Magistrates of these foure citties that there were as honest religious men in the Cittie of Geneua that misliked that forme of Church-gouernment as there were that spake for it that if in their letters they depraued any their euill wordes ought not to preiudice the cause committed vnto them for that it is their custome to slaunder all those that do impugne them that they for their partes the magistrates of that Cittie rested all of them as fully resolued to continue the preaching of the Gospel amongst thē as euer they were glad at the first to procure admit it If they had giuen some round intimation that they the cittizens were resolued to haue their Church reformed according to some of the platformes of the Heluetian Churches and that they would no longer endure to be so ouer-looked and hampered in their owne free Cittie by such a pragmaticall and intermedlinge Discipline If I say their letters had beene penned after this or some such like sort as I suppose there was good cause the proceedings of that Consistory being such at that time as since they haue beene in other places I doubt not but that the ministers of those citties would haue aduised their magistrates to haue giuen an other kinde of aunswere then they did For they the saide ministers belieuing Maister Caluins information that all was true which he had reported vnto them and considering what a small matter it was which hee and the rest of his associates required at their handes that the satisfying of them therein might breake the backs of such a wicked conspiracy as was pretended to haue beene made euen against Christ himselfe and his Church and not onely preuente that mischiefe for that time but procure the establishinge of the Gospell there for time to come hereafter they dealt no otherwise for the sayde aunswere then I am perswaded all the Bishops that now are in England if then they had liued woulde haue done in the like case And that was in effect as Maister Caluin wished sauing that whereas he woulde haue had them to haue sayde that the forme of the Geneua discipline was consentanea verbo dei agreable to the worde of God they refused to write in that sorte but were content to say that it did accedere ad verbi dei praescriptum that is that it drewe towardes the prescript of gods worde or looked that way But you shall heare Maister Bullinger himselfe report the aunswere of their Senate which was that they were grieued theyr Church was so troubled as that one quarrell and contention did begette another that they had lately heard of the consistoriall lawes of that Church for Caluin had sent such of them as he thought good
shall we thinke that they heard of it and conspired together to ouerthrow Christes institution It may be said that peraduenture they heard of it and reproued it but could not reforme it Very well But where be then their admonitions petitions supplications and libels against it Where be their suspensions excommunications and giuings ouer to Sathan Not a word of that abuse in Saint Iohns Gospell written after the supposed defection but especially could he haue pretermitted such a high point in the booke of his Reuelations Or had he so many Reuelations of other matters of lesse importance forsooth and was such an ouerthrowe of Christes kingdome kept from him The Disciplinarian shiftes in this case to make the best of them can be but slaunderous and desperate But to graunt to all of them the acceptation of the Apostles times after the largest accompt there is surely nothing lesse to be found in those times then the Geneua platforme For then as particular congregations professed the Gospell you should haue found a Priest or minister of the worde and Sacramentes placed in them In Citties where there were diuerse such congregations or wherevnto sondry congregations of the country did appertaine then you shoulde haue found some Timothy a Bishop to gouerne them After that diuerse Citties had receaued the Gospell or some whole Countrey it was not long but some Titus was placed as Archbishop ouer them The twelue Apostles were in those times as twelue Patriarchs for all the world who planted directed visited commaunded and appointed the foresaid Church gouernours and what else they thought meet for the benefit of the church If I were presently to leaue this life and should speak what I thought of the present forme of Ecclesiasticall gouernement at this time in the Church of England I would take it vppon my soule so farre as my iudgement serueth me that it is much more Apostolicall then any other forme of gouernment that I know in any other reformed Churche in the world As for these men that talke so much of the Apostles times they are indeede but brablers Their deuised regiment hath not any resemblaunce at all of that which was in the Apostles times They haue peruerted in deede the true meaning of certaine places both in the scriptures and in the auncient fathers for a shew to serue their turnes as after it shall appeare and other proofes from those times they haue not any But you will say this is denied It is so and of that else-where Howbeit in the meane while that cannot hinder my purpose to search out the pretended antiquity of it For it is confessed by them that the Apostles practised no other form of Ecclesiasticall gouernment in their times then Christ himselfe in his time did ordaine and assigne vnto them to be practised afterwards And what forme was that Forsooth they say it was the very same forme of Church regiment that was amongest the Iewes and that Christ when he said Dic Ecclesiae tell the Church did translate the same being called Sanedrim Councell or Senate into the Church to be the onely lawfull gouernment thereof vnto the end of the world So as here then we must fetch another friske about to search for the antiquity of the Iewish Senate Maister Caluin after hee had deuised the Geneua platforme and leapt ouer more then a thousand and fiue hundred yeares for the strengthning of it by those wordes of Christ tell the Church vppon occasion he further saith that as farre as his auncient records will serue him the foresaide Iewish Sanedrim was deuised by the Iewes after theyr returne out of captiuity which was vppon the pointe of fiue hundred yeares before Christ Scimus c. wee knowe that from the time that the Iewes returned out of the captiuitye of Babilon the censure of manners and of doctrine was committed to a chosen Counsell which they called Sanedrim in Greeke 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Hoc legitimum fuit Deoque probatum regimen c. This was a lawfull regiment and allowed of God And againe to cutte of all childishe cauilles how to shift this place as that Caluin saith not that it was then first instituted the sam e Caluin speaketh hereof more plainely where intreating of the seuenty Elders Numbers 2. that were chosen to assist Moyses he hath these wordes Certum quidem est c. it is very certaine that when the Iewes were returned from the captiuity of Babylon because it was not lawfull for them to create a king they did imitate this example in erecting of their Sanedrim Here is then the time as plainely set down again as needeth vz. after the Captiuity the cause why they ordained it vz. because they might haue no King and the patterne they did imitate vz. Moyses choosing of seuenty Elders to assist him in his gouernment But all this will not yet serue the turne For besides many other exceptions which are taken to Maister Caluins extraction of the Iewes Sanedrim out of Christs wordes tell the Church this is one that if they will needes inforce such a gouernment vppon the Church as was amongst the Iewes then they meane belike to wrest from the Prince the ciuile sword and to deale themselues in ciuile causes by their owne authority which they haue so much condemned in others though they meddle not otherwise with them then by the Princes appointment for that the Iewes-sayd gouernment or Sanedrim had to doe as well in ciuile causes as in any other that were Ecclesiastical Their aunswere to this exception is that in deede the gouernement they speake-of had to deale in Christs time with ciuile causes de facto but not de iure and that the Priests Iudaicis rebus confusis through their pride and ambition had crastily and corruptly procured such vnlawfull authority vnto themselues to the defacing and hinderaunce of the Lordes institution by Moyses at the first See how they carry vs from post to piller Maister Caluin is no body with Beza Now we must yet further backeward vz. from the restitution of the Iewes out of Babilon to Moyses his time almost a thousand and fiue hundred yeares Surely maister Caluin should haue been as well acquainted with Moyses doings as Beza is for that he hath written Commentaries vppon all his fiue Bookes which Beza hath not If Caluin in sifting the Text so painefully as he hath done cold finde no such matter in Moyses as Beza pretendeth it doth greatly preiudice in my opinion his lighter conceite But heare his wordes We must omnia reuocare ad institutionem Domini per Mosem loquentis vt quid iure factum sit intelligamus Call euery thing to the institution of the Lorde speaking by Moyses if we will haue a true vnderstanding of this gouernement and of the right authority thereof Very well Here then wee must haue a newe issue We must set vp as I said the Church-gouernement which the Apostles practised the Apostles practised
called it ecclesia that is the Church Very well any thing will content me Howbeit for ought I know there was no cause why it might not haue pleased our sauiour Christ if he had conceiued so notable a liking of that Iewish platforme but that hee might also haue retayned the olde name and so haue made no alteration at all The authour of the booke of Discipline hauing as it should seeme some such like consideration in his head or what other I know not and thinking scorne as I gesse to runne to the Iewes Talmud for a name for this regiment is not afraid to dissent from Caluin Beza his olde tutor Cartwright and a number of other his good maisters here in saying obseruandum est vnà cum re ipsa nomen etiam a Iudaeis ad nos translatum esse It is heere to be obserued that together with the thing it selfe the very name also is translated vnto vs from the Iewes And what name is that Forsooth saith he Nomen 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is congregation or church saepius apud Mosen certis delectis viris tribuitur qui a toâ—a congregatione adres obeundas designarentur is often giuen by Moses vnto a certaine number of chosen men that were to be appointed by the whole congregation to deale in sundry affaires So as by this fellowes saying Christ made no alteration at all when he said Dic ecclesiae tell the church but kept euen the olde name of it vz which it had before giuen vnto it by Moses How blinde then was Beza Cartwright and the rest that they could not finde this proper name of their soueraigntie in all the olde testament but were faine to flie to the Talmud But will Beza thinke you take this at his handes No I warrant you For saith he vocabulo ecclesiae significari ciuium conuentum nemo est qui ignoret c. Haebrei 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 vocant Sed postea communis loquendi consuetudo fecit vt pro eoruÌ„ caetu accipiatur qui ChristuÌ„ profitentur There is no man ignorant that the word ecclesia doth signifie an assembly of Citizens The Hebrews do call it an assembly or company met together But afterward by custome it came to passe that it was taken for the assembly of them that do professe Christ. Which custome I hope it will be confessed did begin about Christes time and not in Moses time And then the disciplinarian Trauerser is very well serued for his sawcinesse in taking vpon him to proceed further then his sayd Maisters had giuen him in commission But howsoeuer these fellows will agree amongst themselues me thinketh a man might be bold by their place of Mathew to call their parochiall regiment by the name of the church For they all wil coÌ„fesse that Christ called it so And then it will follow by their grounds that euery parish or church must haue a newe church erected in it which new church must haue authoritie to command censure the old and so one Church must be ouer another Yea but saith Beza in effect we are rather to follow the apostles in this point then Christ. That which he called Church meaning the Synedrium that is Councell the apostles called presbyteriuÌ„ Eldership Quod Christus ecclesiam iam mutato Synagogae vel Synedrij nomine appellarat Paulus presbyterium nominauni That which Christ called the Church changing the name of Synagoge or Councell Paul called Eldership Againe quod Iudaei Synedrium Christiani presbyterium teste Apostolo vocarant That which the Iewes called Councel the Christians as the Apostle witnesseth called Eldership And why Beza would blush if he could not giue a reason for any thing Idcirco fortassis potius quam Synedrium ne qua pateret calumniandi occasio quasi Christiani statum publicum turbare de magistratuum authoritate ac iurisdictione quicquam ad se protrahere vellent The Apostles peraduenture called this regiment rather Eldership then Councell least there might be giuen thereby some occasion of slaundering as though the christians had purposed to haue troubled the publicke state and to haue taken to themselues some part of the Magistrates authoritie and iurisdiction Well and are we yet come to an issue how we may call this forme of gouernement Shall we tearme it the Eldership No surely if wee will follow some other reformed Churches which are so ofte commended vnto vs. Presbyterium vocare Consistorium apud nos mos est It is the maner and fashion with vs at Geneua saith Beza to call the Eldership a consistorie With whom agreeth I.B. the superintendent as it is thought of the Italian Church in London saying Although we haue in our churches the same order which the Apostles ordained yet we haue changed the name of Eldership do call it now by another name vz consistory And good reason It is so called at Geneua The Apostles call it Eldership but yet they dispensing with that point doe call it as they list Men no doubt of a soueraigne prerogatiue But to proceede It shoulde seeme that as these men haue chaunged the name of Eldership into Consistorie so haue others in some places done it into Synod Against both which sort Bannosius in his long and tedious disciplinarian discourse is verie bold to write his minde that it ought rather to be called Eldership then eyther Synode or consistory And that for two reasons vz first because some men do not distinguish sufficiently the assemblies of the christians from the Synodes of the Iewes and secondly because the Hierarchy of Rome doth call their presbyterium Eldership consistorium a consistory From all these as I suppose many of the French Churches or at the least that of Heidelberge doth dissent For thus Iunius lately a chief Ruler there writeth Concilium ecclesiae Senatumue appellamus quod Paulus presbyterium That which Paul called the Eldership wee call the councell of the churche or the Senate and so the Elders there are Senators Which names both of Senate and Senators sayth Beza Vt ciuilibus dignitatibus couuenientius calumniae obnoxium videtur studio quodam vetus purior ecclesia in occidente repudiasse as being proper to ciuile dignities and subiect to slaunder the olde purer churche in the West doth seeme of purpose to haue reiected And Bannosius affirmeth that the reason that moued those where hee was to call the Eldershippe a consistorie was quod nomen minus odiosum quam Senatus esset because it was a name lesse odious then the name of Senate You haue heard also before out of Beza that the Apostles themselues refused the name of Synedrium as being all one with Councell or Senate for the same respects But all this notwithstanding now that belike they thinke themselues in some places to haue laid such sufficient foundations for the coÌ„tinuance of their regiment as that it shall not be remoued what soeuer the Magistrates shall
or Church-rulers They that dare propound such ridiculous things as these are defend thē may say maintaine what they list Shomakers Peuterers Barbers Pinners Pointers Painters being chosen to be of this synagogue to become presently therby our pastors leaders watchmē of our souls Christs vicars Gods prelats Bishops Archbishops continuing their occupations hauing nothing to doe with the word sacraments would haue been accounted by all the auncient Fathers to haue beene rather the conceit of some frantike madde men than of any that had either learning or iudgement CHAP. XII They cannot agree where to find their Elders qualities described I Thinke it can hardly be shewed in the scriptures that God himselfe did euer ordaine any speciall officers either ecclesiastical or ciuill but he likewise appointed what maner of men they should bee in respect of their abilities and vertues for their faythfull discharging of them Which maketh mee more than to suspect that these pretended Elders for all the outcries made in their behalfe to be indeed but counterfaits in that they cannot agree among themselues where they are described The forme of praier made at Geneua and practised in Scotland and with diuers alterations offered not long since to haue beene by parliament established in England others that follow them do thus describe them The Elders must bee men of good life and godly conuersation without blame and all suspition carefull for the flocke wise and aboue all things fearing God And for all these qualities the chiefe place alledged as I thinke is out of Numbers where it is saide That God appointed Moses to choose 70. men of the Elders of Israell to beare the burthen of the people with him which Moses hauing performed the Lord according to his former promise tooke of the spirite which was in Moses and put it vpon the 70. ancient men when the spirit rested vpon them they prophecied and did not cease Out of which words I find nothing for thē except they wil haue them Prophets But I do here dispute nothing let thē speak for thēselues Welsurely then saith a discouerer of vntruths that came lately from Scotland They are ignoraunt in the cause of Christes gouernment that will affirme these were Ecclesiasticall officers The very place it selfe and all the circumstances thereof doe prooue them ciuile And where it is said that the seuenty Elders prophecied it can no more prooue them to belonge to the gouernement of the Church then the like gift bestowed vpon Saul can make him a Church officer Bannosius he relieth not vppon the booke of Numbers for this matter but if you will be content with Exodus he can fet thē thence with a wet finger marry you must haue it by way of collection Si ex praecepto Domini c. If by the Lords commandement the gouernours of the common wealth of the Hebrewes were men of courage fearing God men dealinge truely hating coueteousnes multo magis tales esse debent Presbyteri c. Much more these Elders ought to be such valiant men In good time And other place out of the old Testament for this purpose he nameth not any which sheweth he was brought to a very low ebbe There is a description of the visible Church which they say was printed at Rochell Wherein these Elders are thus described They must be of iudgment and wisedome endued with the sprite of God able to discerne betweene cause and cause betweene plea and plea c and to that end besides the place of Numbers mentioned they quote another out of the Chronicles where Iehosophat speaking of the iudges of the high Court for all causes at Ierusalem saith thus shall yee doe in the seat of the Lord faithfully and with a perfect heart and in euery cause that shall come vnto you from your brethren that dwell in theyr cities betweene bloud and bloud betweene lawe and precept statutes and iudgement yee shall iudg them Where I note the warines of these fellowes in attributing vnto their Elders Commission to discerne betweene cause and cause plea and plea that they leaue out purposely betweene bloud and bloud c. For the which Beza will not giue them any thankes at all hauing deuised a tricke as after it shall appeare how they may deale in those matters aswell as in the other Indeed in all alike But this place rather serueth to shew their opinions what causes the Elders are to be Iudges in then to describe their qualities otherwise then that they must be faithfull men They will play smal play befor they sit out And thus you haue what they bring to this end for ought I finde out of the old Testament with such good agreement as hath beene declared Which causeth me to imagin that the Lord neuer thought of any such officers in the time of the Law For if he had Moses surely in mine opiniō would haue described their qualities aswell as he did the 70. Iudges and other officers to diuers purposes by him appointed and not haue lefte them especially such noble Prelates and Cherubins to be described in this sort hit I misse I by gesse But peraduenture there are more pregnant places in the new Testament to supply some want in Moyses whereuppon they doe iumpe with one consent and good agreement together I would be glad to see that but he liueth not I am perswaded that shall euer see it When proude men dissent they are hardly reconciled in matters of wit and learning Let vs try them The qualities required to bee in an Elder are sette downe by the Apostle in the Epistle to Titus saith Bannosius and some others in these wordes thus in effect An Elder must be vnreprouable the husbande of one wife hauing faithfull children which are not slaundered of riotte neyther are disobedient not frowarde not angry not giuen to wine no striker not giuen to filthy lucre but harbarous one that loueth goodnesse wise righteous holy temperate c. Nay sayth Caluin though there be two kindes of Elders yet contextus statim ostendit hic non alios quà m Doctores intelligi hoc est qui ad docendum ordinabantur The Text doth shew that here no other are to be vnderstood but Doctors that is those that were ordayned to teach With Bannosius agreeth Iunius and with Caluin Cartwright So that as yet we haue no certainty But let Beza be heard and then all shall be well You shall heare both Beza and Iunius iointly They are out of all doubt that where the Apostle in his Epistle to Timothy doth describe the qualities which are required in a Bishop there also and in the same wordes he setteth out the Elder in like maner For that the word Bishop doth cōprehend in that place both a Minister of the word and the ruling Elder also Now then we haue him and because we haue beene so long seeking for him you shall haue him at
in their printed Supplication against all the new Iulianistes and Atheists mentioned CHAP. XXII They take from Christian Princes and ascribe to their pretended regiment the supreme and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes Ecclesiasticall IN the beginning of the reformation of Religion in Germany the learned men there opposing themselues verie mightely against the Popes vsurped iurisdiction did verie learnedly and soundlie shew and proue to their aduersaries the soueraigne authority of Christian Kinges and Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall within their owne dominions and countries Which authoritie vppon the banishment of the Pope as well there as after also in England was both there and here vnited by diuerse laws vnto the interest of their Crowns and to the lawfull right of ciuile regiment This doctrine since that time hath beene so very throughly maintained by sundrie notable men as Brentius against Asoto Bishop Horne against Fecknam Bishop Iuell against Harding and many other learned men against such other Papistes as haue taken vppon them to impugne it that I am perswaded had it not beene that newe aduersaries did rise opposed themselues in the matter the Papists before this time had beene vtterlie subdued For either vppon the attempt in Geneua for the erecting of the Consistorian gouernment which cannot endure any superior authority ouer it in causes Ecclesiasticall when Caluin and Viretus were banished the Citty or else vppon their restitution and after they had preuailed in their said attempt the Ministers there whether in reuenge of their banishment or least their Magistrats should at any time to come giue eare to the aforesaide Doctrine I will not saye but vppon some such occasion they did presentlie thrust themselues into this question that with such spitefull railing and bitternes as though they had conspired with the Pope and his Proctors against al other reformed churches that reiecting their pretended Discipline or new Papacie indeed had submitted themselues vnto the said lawfull authority of Christian Princes in causes Ecclesiasticall And hereof it came to speake the trueth plainelie that Caluin could not abide that King Henrye the eight should bee tearmed the head or supreme gouernour in Earth of the Churches of God within his Dominions And writing to one Myconius how certaine men in Geneua perswaded the Magistrates there Ne potestate quam illis Deus contulisset se abdicaerent that they woulde not depriue themselues of that authoritie which God had giuen them he tearmeth them according to the Consistorian language prophane spirites and mad men whom saith he if we speaking of himselfe and his fellowes shall ioine together to encounter and with a valiant and inuincible zeale fight for that holy authority vz. CoÌ„sistorian c the Lord with the breath of his mouth will destroy The saide Myconius in like sorte reporteth to Caluin from Basill how some in those borders did write to the like purpose in the behalfe of Christian Magistrates alledging the examples of Moises Dauid and other godlye Kinges which saith hee in effect is to make them Popes and then addeth quid si laici huiusmodi argumentis fuerint persuasi what if lay men shall be perswaded by such argumentes Indeede that will cutte the throate of all your soueraigntie But of all others that haue opposed themselues to Christian Princes in this matter besides Martin-Marre-Prelate and some such like companions amongest vs Viretus for rayling scoffing and biting passeth and excelleth Those that stand in defence of the Magistrates authoritie he resembleth to white Diuels and saith They are false Christians though they couer themselues with the cloake of the Gospell and the reformation of the same And againe The Ministers that haue forsaken the Romish Church in seeking to get the Magistrates and peoples fauour against the Pope Priestes and Monkes haue so despised the state of Priestood and Ministery of the Church and so magnified the state of the Magistrate that they now feele the fruict thereof he meaneth that the goods of the Church are thereby gone and wasted Further saith he they thought it a goodby reformation in the Churche to abolishe all the Canons and decrees with the good Statutes which the auncient Fathers and Doctors hadde ordayned to maintaine good Discipline in the Church They haue put all into the Magistrates handes and haue made them maisters of the Church which he tearmeth to be nothing else but the changing of the Popedome the taking away of both swordes from the Pope and giuing them to Princes the euerthrowing of a spirituall Pope and setting vppe a temporall Pope which vnder another colour will all come to one end Nay hee taketh vppon him to prooue that these Temporall Popes as hee tearmeth them are more to bee feared if they take roote and will be worse theâ— the Spirituall Popes and that so the olde Popishe â—yr 〈◊〉 is not taken awaie but onely changed and disguised And his reasons are First that the olde Pope had not the Temporall sworde in his own hand to punishe with death but was fayne to praye aide of the secular power which the neâ—e Pope's need not to doe Secondly that the olde Popes had some regarde in their dealinges of Councelles Synodes and aunciente Canons c. but the newe Popes will doe what they list without any Ecclesiasticall order bee it right or wronge Thirdlye because it chaunceth ofte that these newâ— Popes haue neither learning nor knowledge and yet these shall bee they that shall commaund Ministers and Preachers what they list on paine of their sworde and ministerie and shall appoint them lawes touching their estate and ministery and likewise to the whole Church Giue him also the hearing a little further I praie you Who so vseth such meanes to reforme the fault of the Pope doth not reforme the Church but deforme is more then it was before c. This I dare say that I see already in some places that vnder title of reformation by the Gospell some christian Princes haue in ten or twentie yeares vsurped more tyranny ouer the Churches in their Dominions then euer the Pope and his adherentes did in sixe hundred yeares And lastly If there be any Magistrates in these daies which vnder the title of authority and power that God hath giuen them c. will make the Ministers of the Church subiect vnto them as the Pope hath made them subiect to him and his c. the same doe verily set vp a newe Pope changing onely his coate and maske And thus far Viretus in his thirde Dialogue of white Diuels which was not written I feare by the instinct of anie good spirite nor without some euill direction translated into English of purpose to seede the seditious fier that our turbulent Copper-smiths following this Dâ—sciplinarie tract haue kindled alreadie amongest vs. I haue omitted his earnestnes in the behalfe of his own and Caluins Discipline that the authority thus denied to Princes might be yeelded to them and
their followers and that all men both Princes and others would be content to submitte their neckes vnder that yoke Which were to make Princes saith Erastus trulie quasi carniâ—ices as it were the executioners onely of their pleasures quemadmâ—dunâ— in Papatu factum videmus as we see it practised in the Papacy and in truth is nothing els but that I may vse their phrases to banish one Pope and admitte of thousands or to deliuer their Scepters from the tyrannie of the old Pope and to subiect them to the tyranny of these new Popes euen to excommunication as Cartwright with his English crue doe affirme and so consequently to depriuation or death as Buchanan the Scottishe Consistorian teacheth My purpose is only in this place to make it knowne from whence our brotherhood haue furnished themselues with their inuectiues against the authoritye of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall and that whatsoeuer they pretend in words yet they are of the same minde that Viretus is if they durst so plainly vtter it Or if they be not let them confes in print that the premisses cited out of his sayde dialogue are false and then for that pointe let them be credited But that I am perswaded they will neuer doe I am sure if they should that besides their opposition with Geneua they should also recant their owne assertions which directly exclude the ciuile magistrates from dealing in ecclesiasticall causes As for example The whole gouernment of the Church is to be committed to Ministers Elders Deacons The church is now to the worldes end to haue no other offices in it but of pastors Doctors Elders and Deacons They which are no Elders of the Church haue nothing to doe in the gouernment of the same They deuide the Church wherein anye Magistrate King or Emperor is a member into those which are to gouerne vz. Pastors Doctors and Elders and into such as are to obey vz. magistrates of all sortes the people Indeed Beza will haue the ciuile magistrate one of the Church-officers But Cartwright will not consent for his part to yeald them so much For saith he as Pastors cannot bee officers of the common wealth no more can the magistrate bee called properlye a church-officer And in truth what Beza graunteth it is in effect nothing sauing for a shew and to serue their own turnes forsooth vt tranquillitatem ecclesiae procurent â—t tueantur Their office is to procure and defend the peace of the Church whereas else where hee agreeth with Viretus yee may bee sure and in his Booke against Erastus peremptorily affirmeth That Princes haue no more to doe with matters of the Church then Ministers haue with the affayres of the common wealth Which by their doctrine generallie is none at all But saide I hee agreeth with Viretus I might saie rather with Cardinall Allen and Saunders if he bee the author of the Booke intituled Vindicie contra Tyrannos as it was reported For there hee saith that if anie Prince shall challenge to himselfe both Tributes that is authoritie aswell in Ecclesiasticall causes as ciuile as by the circumstances of the place it is euident hee doth as if hee would like the old Giaunts scale heauen and surprise it and is guiltie of treason and doth thereby forfeite his fee that hee holdeth no lesse than a subiect or vassall shall that vsurpeth the kinges royaltyes and in this respect such kinges are very often depriued thereof much more iustlye then a vassall or subiecte maye bee insomuch as there is some proportion of comparison betwixte a vassall or subiect and his Lorde but betwixt God and the king betwixt a wretched man and the Almightie there can bee no proportion at all Furthermore Cartwright and some others with him do affirme that Kings and princes do holde their kingdomes and dominions vnder Christ as hee is the sonne of God onlye before all worldes coequall with the father and not as hee is mediator the heade and gouernor of the Church Whereuppon they doe first builde that all Kinges aswell heathen as Christian receiuing but one commission and equall authoritie immediately from God haue no more to doe with the Church the one sorte then the other as being in no respect deputed for Church officers vnder Christ otherwise then if they bee good Kinges to maintaine and defende it And secondlye that as God hath appoynted all Kinges and Ciuile Magistrates his immediate Lieutenants for the gouernment of the worlde in temporall causes so Christ as hee is mediator and gouernour of his Church hath his immediate officers to rule in the Church vnder him and those they saie are no other then Pastors Doctors and Elders to whom they ascribe as large authoritie in causes Ecclesiasticall And all this as I take it they haue learned of the Papists For whereas maister Harding saith that the office of a King in it selfe is all one euerie where not onely amongst the Christian Princes but also amonge the Heathen and thereuppon concludeth that a christian Prince hath no more to doe in the deciding of church-matters or in making ceremonies and orders for the Church then a Heathen Cartwright alloweth of his iudgement and doth expresly affirme that hee himselfe is of the same opinion professing his mislike of those who teach another right of a Christian and of a prophane magistrate Whereat Trauerse his scholler aymeth in like sorte when hee saith in effect that heathen princes being conuerted to the fayth receiue no further increase of theyr power whereby they maye deale in causes ecclesiasticall then they had before And lastly it is no lesse agreeable vnto their seconde assertion that whereas the Papists saye the Pope with his Cardinalls and Bishops are a true representation of the Catholicke Church of Christ vnder whom the Pope being Peters supposed Successor is the ministeriall and immediate chiefe gouernour of it here vppon earth now Cartwright and others doe affirme that euerye particular parish hauing such an Eldershippe in it as they desire is a liuelye patterne and representation of the whole and catholicke Church of Christe vnder whom saye they their Pastors Doctors and Elders are the ministeriall and immediate gouernours by right of euery such Catholicke parish-parish-Church vppon earth And thus if I bee not deceiued that playnelye appeareth which was in the beginning of this Chapter propounded vz. that for all their protestations they derogate from Christian Princes and arrogate to their Elderships the supreame and immediate authority vnder Christ in causes ecclesiasticall CHAP. XXIII In the oppugning of Princes authoritye in causes Ecclesiasticall they ioyne with the Papists THere is nothing will lightlye anger our pretended Brotherhood more then if ti be tolde them that they denie in effect with the common aduersaries her Maisties lawefull stile and prerogatiue Royall in causes ecclesiasticall Oâ— saye they wee doe not wee are slaundered wee yealde vnto her Highnes
as much authoritie as anye King maie lawfully challenge we abbridge her of nothing that the worde of God alloweth her and many other such ambiguous protestations they vse to make in this behalfe But they plav the deceitfull sophisters whom the Lord abhorreth For these are some of their grounds A man would thinke that they had taken them out of Hosius The Christian soueraigne ought not to be called the head vnder Christ of the particular and visible churches vvithin his dominions No ciuile magistrat hath prehemineÌ„ce by ordinary authoritie to determine of church-church-causes No ciuile magistrat in Councels or assemblies for church-matters can either be cheefe moderator ouer-ruler iudge or determiner No ciuile magistrat hath such authoritie as that vvithout his consent it should not be lavvfull for ecclesiastical persons to make any church-order or ceremonie No ciuile magistrat ought to receiue either tenths or first fruits of any ecclesiasticall persons The iudgemeÌ„t of church-matters pertaineth to God they ought ordinarily to be handled by the church-officers the principallitie or direction of the iudgement of them is by Gods ordinance pertaining to the ministerie of the Church As for the making of orders and ceremonies in the church they do vvhen there is a constituted and ordered church pertaine vnto the ministers of the church and to the ecclesiasticall gouernors and that as they meddle not vvith the making of ciuile lavves and lavves for the common-vvealth so the ciuile magistrate hath not to ordaine ceremonies pertaining to the church The ministers are to determine of controuersies as they arise and to make or abolish needfull or hurtfull ceremonies Herevnto may be added that which is before obserued how he ascribeth the same right in church causes to an infidel or prophane magistrat that he doth to any Christian princes and of their mutuall agreement with the Pope himselfe in the manner of both their excluding of Christian magistrats from hauing any thing to do as vnder Christ in his Church Hitherto then concerning all these puritane-popish assertious so much derogating from the lawfull authoritie of Christian princes There is but only this difference betwixt them the rankest Iesuits in Europe that what the one sort ascribe to the Pope and his shauelings the other do challenge to themselues and their Aldermen Vpon which occasion Cartvvright finding himselfe with his fellowes ranged to walke step by step with such a crue taketh vpon him like some dawber or bricklaier to make a high wall as he tearmeth it betwixt the Papists and them in this point But God knoweth it is a simple one and so thinne that you may easily looke through it and discerne them marching both togither First sayth he the Papists exempt their priests from the punishment of the ciuile magistrate vvhich vve doe not It is reason in deed you should not But if you doe not what doe these things mean The author of the second admonition desireth that he and his companions may be deliuered by act of Parlement from the authoritie of the ciuile magistrates as Iustices and others and from their inditings and finings Furthermore where Cartvvright sayth that the authoritie of christian Princes commeth immediately from God and not from Christ as he is mediator and that the authoritie of the svvord is the same ordinance of God as vvell in heathen princes as in Christians doth it not follow that in his iudgement Christian princes haue no authoritie ouer any of their subiects but only as they are men and not as they are either Christians or priests If you thinke it doth not then what T.C. wanteth I.B. doth supplie and that in proper tearmes as if it please you to peruse the place it will appeare vnto you Besides there goeth a letter from hand to hand written by certaine gentlemen of Suffolke to the Lords of her maiesties councell wherein there is great complaint made in the behalfe of certaine of the brotherhood as a matter fit to bee reformed that being ministers they had at their assises bene presented brought to the barre endicted arraigned and condemned Which dealing they tearme to be very hard and tending to the vtter discredit of the vvhole ministerie and profession of truth So that of all likelihood for all Cartvvrights saying both he and his fellowes could be well contented to be exempted from the ciuile magistrats But let vs heare the papists vpon this point or first part of Cartvvrights wall and peraduenture you shall find them as forward for their subiection herein as hee himselfe is or at the least as small a difference betwixt them as euer you saw though it were betweene two twiâ—nes Good kings may put bishops and priests in mind of their duties and bridle both their riot and arrogancie The prince by the vvord of God may make lavves for the obseruation of both tables and punish the trangressors I do here presently offer my selfe to receaue a corporall â—ath vpon the Euangelists that I do vtterly thinke and am persuaded in my conscience that the Queenes highnesse is the onely supreme gouernour of this realme and of all other her highnesse dominions and countries c. And further I shall presently svveare that her highnesse hath vnder God the soueraignty and rule ouer all maner of persons borne vvithin these her highnesse realms of vvhat estate ecclestasticall or temporall soeuer they be Fatemur person as EpiscoparuÌ„ qui in toto orbe fuerunt Romano imperatori subiectos fuisse VVe confesse that the persons of all the Bishops in the vvorld vvere subiect to the Romane emperour Rex praeest hominibus Christianis verum non quia sunt Christiani sed quia sunt homines quoniam ipsi episcopi sunt homines episcopis etiam ea ex parte rex praeesset The king ruleth christiaÌ„s not as they are christiaÌ„s but as they are men because bishops are men the king in that respect hath authoritie ouer them Harding also confesseth that if the causes be ciuile and temporall and all other causes our reformers do tie to their Elderships Bishops may be conuented before ciuile authoritie And it appeareth amongst all the learned Papists that the cheese prerogatiue they haue had in this point hath proceeded from the meere fauour and good will of Christian Princes the rather to couer and keepe from the people such faults in the Clergie as might breed their contempt Hitherto then this wall riseth vp but easily especially if I should adde in this place the brethren of Scotland their diuinitie for this matter when they not the Papists gaue the king and state occasion to make it by act of Parlement 1584 treason for any man to refuse to answer before the king though it were concerning any matter which was ecclesiasticall Now concerning the second part of Cartvvrights wall it is this The Papists sayth he vvill haue the Prince to
execute vvhatsoeuer they conclude be it good or bad vve say that if there be no lavvfull ministerie as in time of necessitie Dauid did eat the shevv bread vvhich vvas othervvise lavvfull for the priests only to eat of that then the Prince ought to set order and that vvhen there is a lavvfull ministerie if it shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the Prince ought to stay it Surely you are very proper and right liberall sayers Doth not your admonisher affirme that if your platforme were once on foot all men must stand vnto the determinations of your maiesticall church officers that I may vse maister VVakes tearme except it should happen in some matter of faith they should make decrees against the vvord of God And I pray you if any such thing should happen how could the king reforme it or as you say stay it He iudgeth their sayd orders to be erronious and perceaueth the mischiefes that do depend vpon them but how shall he redresse and preuent them Shall he compell the authors of them to assemble themselues together againe and to retract and condemne all such their decrees They are of that humor as experience hath told vs that it is vnlikely they will be compelled to any thing No it were too great a disgrace for them to yeeld in any thing that once they haue broached were it good or bad but especially when it is decreed in any of their worshipfull meetings And besides if the king should presse them too far in such a matter he might find them peraduenture but very ticklish subiects Cartvvright to shuffle vp some blundering answer to these points sayth That if in such a case the church ministers should shevv themselues obstinate and vvould not be aduised by the Prince they should thereby prooue themselues to be an vnlavvfull ministerie that vpon such an occasion the Prince might remooue thē Remouethē How By any ordinarie authoritie which you do allow to the christian magistrats in causes ecclesiasticall But you haue told vs before your mind herein In effect that it must be done by an extraordinarie authoritie euen by the same right that Dauid did eat of the shew-bread which were it not in such a case of necessitie none but the Priests might in any wise eat of For otherwise as it is before mentioned where such a platforme is in execution as they seeke for the Prince hath not any thing to doe by their doctrine God knoweth either with placing or displacing of church ministers Or if Cartvvright will say that I wrest his words to the worst construction and that he meaneth plainely as purposing thereby to confirme for his part her maiesties ordinarie supreme authoritie in those maner of causes I am content he make the best of his owne words that he can whether he meant ordinarie or extraordinarie authoritie so that when he hath done he will stand vnto it But let him say what he is able yet he hath a woolfe by the eares and shall neuer be able so to shift his hands but that it will follow that both he and all the pastors doctors and elders that are combined with him are by his words both obstinate and vnlawfull ministers except he shall withdraw this part of his wall as being to weake to make such a separation from the papists as he pretendeth For notwithstanding that the present gouernment of the church of England is established and confirmed by a nationall synod with the generall cōsent of the whole land to be a most lawful godly forme of gouernment notwithstanding that her Maiestie doth so thinke of it and hath shewed herselfe many waies as by her acts of parlemēt her proclamatiōs her sundry speeches yea by the punishing imprisoning of some certaine persons vtterly to dislike of their pretended discipline as being in her princely iudgement a meere forgerie vaine conceit of busie restlesse heads cōtrary to the word of God and ancient practise of all the godly churches in the world for 1500 yeares all these things I say notwithstanding yet they haue rayled libelled raged against the said present gouernmēt They haue and do still neglect as well her maiesties setled iudgment of the vnlawfulnesse of their decreed platforme as also her lawes her pleasure and many commandements that they should desist hereafter from that their erronious deuise and submit themselues quietly to the forme established Nay they are so far from yeelding in this point to any authoritie of her maiestie whether ordinarie or extraordinarie as that they haue attempted by very vnlawfull and seditious means to aduance their purposes against her highnesse will and do plainly giue it out that they wil not desist they will not hold their peace they will haue their desires though they be driuen to vndertake such means for that end as will make their hearts to ake who are their cheese impugners Stand now to your words maister Cartvvright if you meant plainly vz. If the ministerie shall agree of any vnlavvfull thing the prince ought to stay it and then are not all the packe of you concluded by your said answer to be obstinat persons and a false ministerie If you haue any refuge in the world it is this that whatsoeuer the said nationall councell the learned mens opinions that do impugne you the lawes of this realme all the ancient churches and her maiestie relying vpon them whatsoeuer they altogether do thinke iudge to be lawfull you care not or you are sory for it but all that notwithstanding you are sure for that you haue decreed amōgst your selues vz. that you haue not therein erred and therefore they must all beare with you though you rest your selues vpon the truth of your own decrees giue no place either to councel law prince fathers learned men or any other authoritie whatsoeuer that maketh against you And will not H.N. and Barovv will not al hereticks schismaticks say as much where is then the princes authoritie you spake of For staying such kind of proceeding what course shall he take These ministers as I sayd conclude vpon their owne deuises The king considereth of them and findeth them vnlawfull but they denie it what shall hee do Your refuge Cartvvright is euerie Heretickes refuge If her Maiestie with all the reasons mentioned cannot stay you and your sect let neuer any king or ciuile magistrat looke by any authoritie which you do giue vnto them in causes ecclesiasticall to stay the fancies of any such fellowes But the substance of all their deuises is nothing but pretences of things that are not And agreeable therevnto is this second part of Cartvvrights wall of the difference betweene him and the Papists who in effect for ought I see are as franke to Christian Princes euen in this point as either he or his fellowes Princes extraordinarily sayth Harding haue laudably intermedled vvith Religion as iudges and rulers of spirituall causes Good Christian Princes euer tooke into their
hee shall thereby incurre the high displeasure of these Rabbies which he shall be sure to haue sticking vpon him vntill they can waite him as good a turne yet I say againe vvhat is left to the magistrat The iniurie is confessed afore There shall need no triall of the fact where so many witnesses may be vsed to prooue his confession afore if now he should denie it All that the magistrat hath to do is to set down what recompense I shall haue for my sayd iniurie and to tax my charges If you say nay hee will heare the cause againe Indeed I confesse he had need to do so But so both I and the partie should be doubly charged and troubled Besides that course would turne to the vtter discredit of the presbyteries that their dealings fitting in the seat of Christ should come to be scanned by those that are but humane ordinations For so some of them by colour of the Apostles words do debase magistracie And therefore peraduenture they will thinke it meet that vpon certificat from them the magistrats should so prōceed to adiudge me a recompense and to rate mine expenses without any further adoo Some such thing it is though not in this very case which the ministers of the low countries haue desired Thus a very graue man borne amongst them reporteth of this matter Ministri nullam habent coërcendi potestatem nec habere volunt Tantùm cupiunt vt magistratus puniant eos qui ipsorum mandatis parere detrectarent Quod nunquam sunt facturi nisi prius de tota causa legitime recognouerint actoribus aut accusatoribus ministris consistorij Quod seniores ministri alienū à suo ministerio esse similiter iudicant In haec absurd a inciderunt propter reiectam episcoporum authoritatē c. The ministers there haue no povver to correct any man neither vvill they haue any Only they desire of the magistrats to punish such as should refuse to obey their cōmandements vvhervnto the magistrats vvil neuer yeeld except they may take notice of the vvhole cause againe by ordinarie course of lavv the ministers of the consistories making thēselues either plaintifs or accusers VVhich the elders and ministers do iudge not to be agreeable to their ministerie And they are fallen into these absurdities he had also before named some other through their reiecting of the authoritie of bishops You see their desire in this case and it may in mine opinion bee stretched to the former And then as I haue shewed through scandales offences consciences and I know not what pretences challenges and counterfait prerogatiues the iurisdiction of their elderships will be so large as the ciuile magistrats iudges and lawyers shall not need to be greatly troubled These things with all the premisses of this chapter considered I dare say you long to know by what authoritie they challenge to deale in all these so many and so infinite causes And to satisfie your longing the learned discourser shall first speake his mind Our sauiour Christ sayth he in the vvord church alludeth to the Ievves Sanedrim vvhich had the hearing and determining of all difficult matters amongst them the like vvhereof he vvilled to be established in his church for administration of gouernment What you will say but weightie matters How come they now to al matters euen to Robin-hood maigames and may poles Ye say truly but Cartvvright will supply this defect For indeed this discourser shot many bowes too short This vvas the policie and discipline of the Ievves and of the sinagogue saith he from vvhence our sauiour tooke this and translated it vnto this church that vvhen any man had done any thing that they held for a fault that then the same vvas punished and censured by the elders of the church And M. Beza Quod ius fuit Synagogae sub lege cur non valeat in ecclesia sub euangelio authore Christo Math. 18.17 non video I see not why the same authoritie that the Synagogue had vnder the lawe shoulde not continue now in the Church vnder the Gospell according to Christs institution in the chapter mentioned Indeede if Christ haue ordained any such matter it is good reason it should bee so But because they will needs bring vs to the Iewes let vs see what prettie tales they will tell vs of those times They say and it is true that the Priests were the Lawyers of the land And would they be so now If the same pollicie continue why should they not They tell vs further that in ciuill causes when there did arise anie doubt in law amongst the Iudges the decision thereof did belong to the Priests iurisdiction If that also were a good pollicie and that it be continued by Christ then I see no reason why it should not againe be now established in all places They say that the 17. of Deuteronomie from the beginning of the eight verse vnto the ende of the thirteenth doth intreat of the ecclesiasticall Senate where it is said that iudgements betweene bloud and bloud between plea and plea c. did belong to the priestes and that it was death for any man not to rest in his determination If this pollicie be in like manner continued who then in the common-wealth but the ecclesiasticall Elderships Matters of bloud and of all pleas Who would not take those points to be more ciuil causes It is true But they tell vs that when the priests dealt in any of those causes they dealt not in them ciuilly but ecclesiastically It will trouble a man to find out their sleights But one example to this purpose you shall haue When such a doubt did rise saith Beza Non de facto Not of the facte for that was meere ciuill but Deiure what the law was in such a case then the Ecclesiasticall Eldership determined thereof and that doone the ciuill Iudge gaue sentence of the facte accordingly As though there should be two Courts in Westminster hall one for matters of fact in ciuill and criminall causes consisting of temporall Iudges and another for matters of Conscience for all sortes of offences and for matters of lawe consisting of ecclesiasticall persons some Pastors and Doctors assisted in solemn maner with their church Aldermen Suppose then I pray you that you are by chaunce in Westminster hall such a difficult matter in lawe as is pretended commeth before the Iudges of some fact whereupon downe they come from their seats and go to the Elders May it please your Maisterships there is such a cause before vs which seemeth to be a foule matter if it fall out as the bill or declaration is laid what is the law in this point The Elders consult together resolue them The Iudges giue them a legge returne to their places the cause falleth out according to the complaint and so they pronounce the sentence as the Aldermen taught them Suppose I say all these things
then you perceiue what Bezaes distinction meaneth with what good discretion both hee and his followers will needs make two Courts of that which was but one It is a very great maruel that any wise men should insist vpon these so apparant and childish fooleries In all the Courtes I thinke in the world since there haue beene anie the same that were Iudges of the lawe were Iudges likewise to trie the fact except it be in England And yet heere also euen in the triall of factes by twelue men we haue not two Courts for one matter but all the euidence witnesses and whatsoeuer else that doth appertaine for the finding out of the fact are brought before the Iudges of the law They sift and examine euerie point and circumstance that so the Iurie may bee fully informed and they are indeede the chiefe directors as it is meete in the whole matter And as it is and hath beene in all the worlde so it was in all the Courtes appointed either by Moses or by King Iehosophat in Iewrie It is true that all difficulties that did rise amongst the Iudges of inferior Courts in the country whether they were of law or facts and likewise all appellations from lower Courts did belong to the high Court at Ierusalem to bee heard and determined But doth that proue one Court to bee two Nay it is most apparant that if they will needs fetch their Elderships from the Iewes Synedria they may challenge to themselues aswell the ciuill gouernement of the common-wealth as the ecclesiasticall of the church For so was the forme of gouernmeÌ„t then according to the testimonies of scripture of all the Iewes the Rabbines the Talmudists Iosephus others And I greatly doe suspect it that in time they will begin to claime it I find them so wauering and vncertaine in this matter As yet fiâ— they cannot abide to heare of it But obserue them how they stagger Beza in his booke against Erastus whereunto hee himselfe and seuenteene other Ministers of Geneua subscribed and which was the booke indeed that Erastus did confute both he they all of them were in doubt of this point An verò ciuilem aliquam coÌ„eÌ„rtionem habuerit ex iure ecclesiasticum illuà apud Iudaeos synedâ—ion definire vix possumus habuisse tamen posterioribus saltem temporibus negare nec si velimus possumus c. We can scarcely define whether the ecclesiasticall Eldership amongst the Iewes had any authoritie of right to vse ciuill punishments that it had at the least in the later times if we would denie it we cannot It is very well said And then I trust it will be confessed that as long as that authoritie continued hee had beene a fond man that should but once haue dreamed of the former distinction of making one Court two vz. the one of fact and the other of law and of dealing in ciuill causes ecclesiastically or I know not how Yea saith Beza but though they had such authoritie probabile est it is probable that it was procured ambitione maximorum pontificum by the ambition of the high priests How like you this When he is so pressed both by scriptures and with other authoritie that hee cannot chuse but confesse the point in question see how substantially he would seem to auoide it with his Theologicall demonstration Probabile est But that I doe the man no iniurie hee hath an other shift of descant to helpe himselfe herein Though they had any such authoritie exiure by the law saith he yet Hoc nihil ad nos It doth not concerne vs. Why if the same pollicie that the Iewes had bee continued by Christ in his Church how commeth it to passe that this doth nothing concerne vs It is abrogated Belike euen as much and as little of the pollicie must continue as is in force at Geneua But who did abrogate it Christ. Where When hee said Reges gentium dominantur eis vos autem non sic The kinges of the nations beare rule ouer them but it shall not be so with you They seeme to bee much beholden to this peece of scripture it serueth them vnto so many purposes But if they presume in this sort vpon the continuall fauour of it certainly it will leaue them when they least suspect it If the Iewes Eldership had to deale in ciuill causes that Christ had puâ—posed to haue continued that form of gouernment in his Church in all pointes sauing in that he would haue said thus The priests of the Iewes did beare rule ouer them and had to deale in ciuill causes but it shall not be so with you It is to bee wondred ar that Beza should content himselfe with such vnlikely so very improbable conceites But it seemeth that vpon some better aduisement with himself and his fellowe subscribers they grewe all of them ashamed of these shiftes And therefore in his booke of excommunication which hee lately published hee is become in some sort another man Now both he his said felow-Ministers are out of doubt Ex clarissimis testimoniis By most clear testimonies that the authority which the priests had in ciuill causes was gotten by bribes Ex licentia iurisdictionis perturbatione through the libertie and confusion of those two distinctiurisdictions which confusion Christus nunquam approbanit Christ neuer approued Ah very well though they haue turned ouer an other lease and for Probabile est do bragge of most cleare testimonies yet concerning Christs wordes they are gone backward For his commandement Vos autem non sic is now turned as you see into Nunquam approbauit which carrieth with it no other force than is ascribed to a negatiue collection But for all their most cleare testimonies he must haue better eyes than mine that can discerne any thing by them sauing their inconstancie and that there is cause to suspect therby as I said that when their credites are increased they will not greatly sticke to breake the bounds of their said distinctions deale as well with matters of fact as of law For els besides all the premisses what meaneth this new ground of Diuinitie published of late in print to the worlde from Geneua Ciuiles quoque lites antequam Christiani essent magistratus vt verisimile est ex Apostolica doctrina amicè citra vllum ferè strepitum componebantur The ciuill contentions before there were any Christian magistrates were compounded as it is likely according to the Apostles doctrine by the Elderships friendly and without any suites of law So as now if this question were once determined whether that may bee lawful when there is a Christian magistrate that is lawfull to bee doone when there is none there should as you see bee no more suites in law for ciuill causes in the lande their Elderships haue intituled themselues vnto them and ingrossed them all by right into their handes You will say it is true that they haue done so indeede if
themselues are excepted Whereof it commeth that the very same proiect is made to the Lordes of her Maiesties most honourable Councell which was deuised by Beza for Scotland vz. that in place of the Bishops there might be present in the parliament house some wise and graue Ministers of especiall gifts learning sorted out of all the land to yeld their Councell according to Gods heauenly lawe euen as the ciuill Iudges are readie to giue their aduise according to the temporall law and for matters of greater difficultie But would they sitte there as the Iudges doe and haue no voices I take it they would scorne that greatly For I nothing doubt but if they were there they would account themselues the wisest in the companie And therefore it was more substantially considered of by him who penned a Supplication to her Maiestie and wished That foure and twentie Doctors of Diuinitie to be called by such names as it should please hir highnes might be admitted into the Parliament house and haue their voyces there in steade of the Bishops And would they bee called Lords if it pleased her Maiestie for the honour of that house to appoynt it so Their wordes doe import so much and I make no doubt of it but that to gratifie her highnesse they would bee content to humble themselues so farre In the hope which they haue conceiued to ouerthrow the state of Bishoppes and to haue their deuise allowed of and established in the lande they inueigh most bitterly against the Bishoppes and the Conuocation house misliking that the dealing in ecclesiasticall causes should bee committed vnto them in sorte as now it is affirming that the liberties of the Parliament are thâ—reby betrayed and that it appertaineth to that Court to order matters of religion But what if the Bishops were excluded and none admitted into the Conuocation house but such as they woulde chuse from amongst themselues how then Indeed saith the Supplicator If the Conuocation house were such as it ought to bee c. then were it not lawfull for the Parliament to establish any thing in the matters appertaining to the pure worship of God but by theyr direction Which is this in effect if I vnderstand them that the Parliament should prouyde theyr new pretended gouernours of sufficient maintenance and set vp theyr Eldershippes and then enact it likewise that whatsoeuer they should ordaine in their assemblies and meetings for the time to come concerning Church causes should be in full strength and for euer obeyed vntill it might please them to make some alteration Which is the point that Knox aymed at in his Exhortation to England wherein for the good instruction of her Maiesties subiectes he sendeth them from Geneua these Allobrogicall rules That the pretended discipline ought to bee set vp that all Princes ought to submit themselues vnder the yoke of it that what Prince King or Emperour shall disanull the same he is to be reputed Gods enemie and to be helde vnworthie to raigne aboue his people and then sayth if such order were once established as there he prosecuteth and the discipline well executed accordingly theyr yearely comming to the Parliament for matters of religion shall bee superfluous and vayne And this also is playne by Cartwrights newe forme of discipline subscribed vnto by himselfe and his fellowes Which forme they haue auowed vppon theyr oathes to bee such as that they purposed to haue beene suitors to her Maiestie for the generall establishing of it In which their purpose if once they may preuayle there shall neuer Parliament bee troubled againe in matters of religion otherwise then as I sayde for making of lawes that the people may obey their orders For the whole gouernement is there ascribed vnto their Elderships other assemblies insomuch as the ciuill Magistrate is not once mentioned in it It is well knowne how vehement they haue been and still continue against the now Lord Archbishop of Canterbury in that he is one of her Maiesties most honourable priuie Councell accounting it vnlawful for a Bishop or Minister of the worde to holde anie such roome and authoritie And yet notwithstanding it is greatly allowed of liked that Beza in Geneua should be one of the Councel of that state there one of the threescore and they admit not anie into theyr Consistory so much as the meanest of their Aldermen but hee must bee eyther a Syndicke or one of the Councell of threescore or one of the Councell of two hundreth Now I cannot possibly be brought to thinke that the worde of God should deale so partially but that it may bee as lawfull heere as there if it please her Maiestie to haue a Bishop to bee one of her most honourable Councell It is apparant in the former Chapiter what little account they make of generall Councels The best are censured by them and reprooued It is not well borne by Cartwright that the Councell of Nice should be tearmed a famous Councell And for other Councels or Synodes they are scarcely reckoned to bee worthie the mentioning If you presse one of that forte with the authoritie of them all though hee be not thirty yeares of age hee will not sticke to make a tush at them and tell you that himselfe is of another opinion No decrees made by them will bind these fellowes And as touching our owne nationall Synodes and Parliaments they are prosecuted with the greatest contempt The reformation of religion made by that authoritie is tearmed a deformation The articles of religion are misliked in diuers points The Iniunctions Aduertisements Canons Orders Ceremonies and all thinges in a manner are despised by them For they are but mens preceptes forsooth euery man must trie them and keepe or allowe what he list at the least if hee will but pretend that hee dooth it of conscience Howbeit if they may haue once authoritie to establish their Elderships and to meete together in theyr classicall prouinciall or nationall assemblies there to make such lawes and orders as they shall thinke good then see I praye you how they chaunge theyr song Touching my departure from that holy assembly without leaue c. Icraue pardon Holy assembly It was a Conuenticle in London about the yeare 1584. I am ready to runne if the Church commaund according to the holy decrees and orders of discipline Holy decrees and orders The matter was for his going into the Lowe Countries with the Earle of Leicester and for his absence from his benefice To the determination of a nationall Synode men shall stande as it was at Ierusalem except it bee in a great matter of fayth or a great matter expressely against the Scriptures It was agreede vppon in the Northampton classis that concerning any matters of doctrine or about the sense of any place of Scriptures the brethren within that compasse must stande to the determination of that clâ—ssis And these are the
orders to this poynte in the newly subscribed booke of discipline Plurium sententiae verbo Dei consentaneae singulares omnes eius cansilij conuentus ecclesiae parere debent All Churches must obey the sentence of the greater part of that Councellor assembly vnder whose direction they are the same being agreeable to the worde of God And agayne It is made a part of theyr Aldermens office to see Vt quae à conuentibus piè decreta retulerint à ciuibus suis earum ecclesiarum studiosè obseruentur that those godly decrees which they shall bring from the assemblyes bee diligently obserued of theyr Cittizens of those Churches Lastly Conuentus sententia rata habeatur donec à conuentu maior is authoritatis secus iudicatum puerit Let the sentence of euery assembly bee ratified vntill it shall be otherwise iudged-of by an assembly of greater authoritie As a classicall to bee ouerruled by a prouinciall a prouinciall by a nationall a nationall by a generall And thus they write of theyr owne orders and assemblyes Which rules take them altogether as they lye if they bee true as I doe not greatly dislike them being well applyed then do these busie bodies among vs sin most directly against theyr own consciences in that they oppose themselues as they do against those things which the greater part of the national Sinode high court of parliament of this Realme hath allowed of beeing most agreeable to the worde of God before some generall Councell or assembly of more authoritie haue iudged otherwise and determined for the course that they haue proceeded in Generall Councell I am sure they haue none And for any other assembly that hath beene held and should haue greater authoritie in England than the nationall Synode of all our owne Churches and the high Court of Parliament let them name it In their writinges generally they exclayme against the high Commission or at the least against the Commissioners as many of them as bee clergie men affirming it to bee against the worde of God that any such should bee of that Commission And yet in Scotland it was agreeable with the Scriptures that fortie or fiftie at the least Ministers of the worde as I conceyue it shoulde bee verie great Commissioners from the King Anno 1589. to very manie great purposes euen for the purging of that lande from all sortes of enemies to the religion there professed Likewise earnest suite is made in the Supplication before mentioned to her Maiestie and found in Fields study that the foresaid foure twentie Doctors that should bee of the Parliament house might be likewise generall Commissioners vnder the great scale of England or the more part of them to beare and determine all and euery secte errour heresie contempt default and misdemeanour agaynst the worde of God and her Maiesties lawes of reformation of religion to depriue any Pastour not dooing or neglecting his duetie to examine witnesses and to imprison the bodyes of all such malefactors and to certifie their names to the Lordes of her Maiesties Councell that they may receiue further condigne punishment Besides there bee some that resemble the high Commission nowe in force vnto the authoritie which they challenge to theyr seuerall Elderships Whereupon one of them acquainted I doubt not with the desires of the rest sayth That if the high Commission were setled in fiue hundred places more than it is and shoulde gouerne by the worde of God and lawes of this Realme there would rise more profit thereby to religion than yet hath beene found by the Bishops He would haue it in fiue hundreth places Scotland is diuided into two and fiftie Eldershippes and of likelyhood they would haue fiue hundred in England And that as I take it is the mystery of his number of fiue hundred To conclude I finde another motion which liketh wel that if there were fiue hundred Elderships more or fewer established yet there might be in euery great Towne certaine Commissioners in causes ecclesiasticall appoynted to looke that the Elderships did their dueties if they did not to compel them therunto by ciuill authority So as therby it appeareth that although our Bishops other Clergie men may not be such Commissioners with vs in some few places yet their Pastors Doctors Aldermen may in euery parish or so many of them or I knowe not whom as it should please her Maiestie to assigne to euery greate Towne Surely the worde of God is much troubled with such kinde of choppers and chaungers of it euery giddy heade wresting and wringing it to serue his owne deuise Wee shoulde haue Commissions to thatch houses withall I see if they might be our directors They are offended with the authoritie that her Maiestie dooth giue vnto her Commissioners for causes ecclesiasticall as beeing vnlawfull in that by vertue of that commission they may sende sometimes for offendors to appeare before them by purseuants and commit them to prison as occasion shal fall out and theyr faultes misdemeanors and contempts shall require But at Geneua the like authoritie in effecte is lawfull in their Eldership For there the Consistorie hath a Beadle sergeant or purseuant or as you lift to tearme him appoynted by the ciuill Magistrates to attende vppon it whose office is to call such before the Consistorie as the Aldermen shall appoynt him And for imprisoning of any offendors and contemptuous persons there is notany matter almost for the which they may call a man before them but one parte of the punishment of it by the lawes of the Cittie is imprisonment As if any when hee appeareth in the Consistorie or els where be so hardie as but to speake euill of any of the Ministers or misname them he is to be imprisoned Besides as I haue noted it before theyr Elders are alwayes of the Councell of state and seldome or neuer but they will bee sure to haue one of the foure Syndickes to bee of that bench So as together they raigne lyke Lordes in theyr Consistorie and who dare say My Lordes why doe you so If they direct imprisonment is but a small matter I speake not agaynst that order there let them vse it as they thinke good Only I see not why the worde of God should bee so bountifull to them and is so sparing to vs. In that by the orders of our Church and the laws of the Realme there is required of Ministers a subscription to her Maiesties lawfull authoritie in ecclesiasticall causes to the Articles of Religion and to the Communion booke c. greate quarrels haue beene raysed and many exceptions are taken against it Insomuch as one a wise man I warraunt you dooth ascribe all the daungers that haue beene complotted against her Maiesties person by the traitrous Papistes the dearth of corne the cause that we haue had such watching and warding by souldiers and lastly that the Spanyards would haue inuaded this land
all these thinges are ascribed I say by him vnto the exacting of the sayde subscription Howbeit yet Cartwright and his confederates could take vppon them in a seditious sort to require a secrete subscription amongst theyr fauourers vnto such a forme of newe Church gouernement as hee with the rest of that crue after many meetinges and alterations had deuised Wherein if theyr fancies might once take place subscriptions would not seeme so daintie as now they doe For there is subscription required vpon subscription No man is to bee chosen vnto anie ecclesiasticall office with them Nisi qui disciplinae subscripserit except he haue subscribed to theyr discipline Whosoeuer is to bee of any of their assemblyes eyther classicall prouinciall or nationall hee must first haue subscribed to their discipline And not thus content it is there also further ordred that none shalbe admitted to the holy Communion except they submit themselues vnto theyr discipline So as heereby euery temporall man of what calling soeuer is brought vnder theyr subiection Of likelyhood they thinke that no man can be a worthy receiuer of that holy Sacrament that is not well perswaded of their counterfait platform At Geneua whosoeuer is to be admitted into their schoole he must first subscribe to theyr discipline And not that onely but he is tyed to make a publike confession of that fayth wherein theyr forme of discipline is comprised for an Articlē And the like confession is also requyred of all them that will receyue the Communion there But what talke I of subscriptions or professions Maister Caluin when that discipline was first set vp procured a generall oath to bee taken throughout the Cittie for the approbation of it Whosoeuer also is made Minister there he sweareth to keepe theyr ecclesiasticall ordinances and consequently the discipline there practised All theyr Elders in like maner thogh one of them be one of the Syndicks doe take an oath to the same effect when they sweare to perfourme theyr office faythfully and to bring all thinges to the Consistorie which are worthie to bee brought before it As if the soueraigne heere should take an oath to bee a promoter But that which is moste of all they haue preuayled so much with the Magistrates and there is good cause why that it is made death for any man to lette or stoppe or cause to hinder the worde and seruice of God and his holy Gospell Within which compasse you maye bee sure theyr discipline is comprehended Our men as yet talke in their platforme but of subscriptions but if once they had gotten so much then forward must the rest or els they would bee angry How carelesly subscription is exacted in England I am ashamed to report Such is the retchlesnes of many of our Bishoppes on the one side and theyr desire to bee at ease and quietnes to thinke vppon their owne affayres and on the otherside such is the obstinacie and intollerable pride of that factious sorte as that betwixt both sides eyther subscription is not at all required or if it be the Bishops admit them so to quallifie it that it were better to bee omitted altogether If the best and the learnedst man in Christendome were in Geneua and shoulde oppose himselfe to any thing that the Church there holdeth if hee escaped with his life he might thanke God but hee shoulde bee sure not to continue as a Minister there There is no Church established in Christendome so remisse in this point as the Church of England For in effecte euery man vseth and refuseth what hee lifteth Some few of late haue beene restrained who had almost raysed the lande into an open sedition But else they followe theyr owne fancies and may not bee dealt withall forsooth for feare of disquietnes No man shall euer perswade mee but that the worde of God dooth giue as free libertie to the Church of England for the repressing of such scismaticks as eyther to Geneua or to any other Church whatsoeuer There is a kind of oath tearmed an oath ministred Ex officio which is and alwayes hath beene ministred in certayne causes in euery Court almost within the Realme but especially in the chiefest This kinde of oath beeing ministred also by her Maiesties Commissioners in causes ecclesiastical for these foar and thyrtie yeares is now especially greatly impugned and many exceptions are taken agaynst it As a man maye not bee driuen to confesse any thing against himselfe nor his godly brethren what you will charge vs with proue it You may not admit an accusation against an Elder vnder two or three witnesses If you haue witnesses why aske you vs And many such like obiections are made maintained Howbeit this opposition is altogether without consideration and by them that knowe not what they do For at Geneua this manner of oath is currant And I am sure the brotherhood heere would bee verie loth to oppose themselues against any point of doctrine that is allowed of there It fortuned vppon a time that certayne persons meeting together at one widdow Balthasars house in Geneua to be merrie did there daunce Maister Caluin hearing of this horrible sinne forsooth procured them all both dauncers and beholders to bee called before him and his Elders in the Consistorie When they appeared Caluin tooke vppon him to examine them and vsed as hee tearmeth them certaine holy obtestations that they should tell him truely whether there were any such dauncing or no where it was and who daunced c. They denied the matter wholy which he expresseth Apostlelike in these words Impudenter nobis Deo mentiti sunt They lyed impudently to God and vs Excandui I grewe pale with anger saith hee and inueighed eagerly against such theyr contempt of God But they continued in theyr contumacie Whereupon Caluin the matter as hee sayth being certainely knowne vnto him protested before God Poenas tantae perfidiae daturos That they should bee punished for such theyr falshood And because hee could not otherwise get the truth from them Censui vt iureiurando ad veri confessionem adigerentur I iudged it meete sayth hee that by oath they should bee compelled to confesse the truth It should seeme they made the like exceptions that our contumacious fellows do make And one Henriche a Minister as it seemeth who as I take it daunced not but did in some sorte by waye of supposition if any such dauncing had been take vppon him to defende it as not beeing a matter to keepe such a stirre about alleadged the verie same place that Cartwright did in the Consistorie at Paules and the which all the rest of that brotherhood doe commonly alleadge vz. Against an Elder receiue no accusation but vnder two or three witnesses But how was this allegation liked of Surely it was laughed at tearmed by Caluin Altercatio non illepida a pleasant ieast It seemeth also that besides the threatning speeches mentioned there
were other vsed in like manner which did more terrifie them For saith Caluin Tandem adieci c. At the length I added further that they must build themselues another Cittie and liue therein by themselues except they would bee contayned heere vnder the yoake of Christ hee meaneth theyr Consistorie and that as long as they liued in Geneua they did striue but in vaine not to obey the lawes there Well by what meanes they were drawne vnto their oath I will not stand vpon it but sworne they were and so confessed all Whereupon Omnes in carcerem coniecti They were all cast into prison Amongst the sayd dauncers besides the said Henriche who was depriued of his Ministerie and committed to prison for three dayes there was in that company one of the foure Syndickes or chiefe Magistrates of the Cittie and hee was remooued from his office vntill hee had giuen some testimonie of his repentance which vppon the admonition of the said Consistorie hee presently did as it seemeth and so escaped prison There was also an other in that meeting named Perrin the Captaine of the Cittie as I take it a man with whome Caluin had many quarrels Hee as it seenieth perceiuing by Caluins eagernes what would fall out about that sporte got himselfe to Lyons hoping before his returne Rem tacitè sepultam iri That the matter would bee deade and buryed But sayth Caluin of him after his returne Quicquid agat poenam non effugiet Doe what he can hee shall not escape vnpunished In this Perrins absence his wife Francisca hearing as I suppose that Caluin shold vtter some harde and angry wordes agaynst her husband rayled both against him and the rest of the Consistoriall associates But Caluin aunswered her Vt merebatur as shee deserued And this was the ende of that inquisition Perrin with his wife were committed to prison as the rest of his fellowes had been hee for dauncing and shee I thinke for rayling Whereof Maister Caluin wrote thus to his friend Perrinus cum vxore fremit in carcere Vidua prorsus insanit alij pudore confusi silent Perrin with his wife dooth frette in prison the widdowe Balthasar is quite madde other beeing ashamed doe holde theyr peace Heere was good Consistorian and round dealing It should appeare that Caluin tooke as much vppon him as some Bishoppes or Commissioners in England doe But why shoulde I stande so long vppon this example It maye bee sayde wee must not lyue by examples And it is true Heare therefore for the conclusion of this poynte a Canon of the reformed Churches in Fraunce The faythfull may bee constrayned by the Consistorie to say the truth so farre foorth as it derogateth nothing from the authoritie of the Magistrate Constrayned this may reach farre But the worde of God alloweth them there it should seeme what they lift In my opinion if such maner of proceeding be lawfull at Geneua and in Fraunce it may in some sorte be tolerated in England It is a thing too manifest with what libelling and rayling the forme of our seruice of our ceremonies of our ornamentes of our apparrell c. hath beene depraued and shamefully slaundered As That our Communion booke was culled out of the Popes Portuise this was abused in Poperie that is papisticall it were better to conforme our selues in outward thinges to the Turkes than to the Papistes These and those thinges were deuised by the Pope that Antichristian beast Whatsoeuer commeth from the Pope which is Antichrist commeth first from the deuill If of the egges of a Cockatrice can be made wholsome meate to feede with or of a spyders webbe any cloth to couer withall then maye also the thinges that come from the Pope and the Deuill bee good profitable and necessarie vnto the Church Against these and many such lyke speeches aunswere hath beene made that it is lawfull to trie all things and to holde that which is good That these thinges which are good were not so defiled by theyr beeing in the Popes portuise but that they might bee taken thence and vsed That we must distinguish betwixt the abuse of a thing and the lawfull vse of it That it is no good reason the Papists abused this therefore wee maye not vse it That as good men sometimes deuise that which is euill so euill men may sometimes deuise that which is profitable c. But all these aunsweres and a number more besides to the same effect are misliked denyed and condemned by these our factioners Howbeit vppon occasion the streame is turned and they themselues are driuen to make the verie same aunsweres for the iustifiyng of their owne proceedinges and for the maintenance of certaine particular matters which they doe vrge and allowe of It hath beene layde to their charge that for all theyr goodly pretences of reformation yet indeede the courâ—e they helde did smell most rankly of Anabaptisme Donatisme and of a newe kinde of Papisme As where tâ—ey disquiet the peace of the Churches already reformed rayle vppon our Ministers and theyr calling affirme that our Sacramentes are not sincerely ministred that there is no Church as it should bee but those that they like of that our ceremonies and orders are all vnlawfull that we haue no lawfull Ministers nor Bishoppes that Princes may not deale in causes ecclesiasticall c. These and manye such like poyntes beeing layde to theyr charge Cartwright as though hee had neuer dreamed of any thing to the contrary frameth this generall aunswere in the name of all his fraternitie If amongst the filth of their heresies vz. of Papistes Anabaptistes and Donatistes there may bee found any good thing as it were a grayne of good corne in a great deale of darnell that wee willingly receyue not as theyrs but as the Iewes did the holy Arke from the Philistines whereof they were vniust owners For heerein it is true that is said The sheepe must not laye downe her fell because shee seeth the Wolfe sometyme cloathed with it Yea it maye come to passe that the Synagogue of Sathan maye haue some one thing at some time with more conuenience than the true and Catholicke Church of Christ. Such was the ceremonie of powring water once onelye vppon the childe in Baptisme vsed with vs and in the moste reformed Churches which in some age was vsed by those of the Eunomian heresie Hitherto Cartwright Whose aunswere if it bee true dooth concurre with ours and may stay his owne and his fellowes gyddinesse heereafter Cartwright was purposed once to haue been Doctor of Diuinitie And thereof hee writeth in this sorte I had the aduise of more than a doozen learned Ministers who considering that I had the office of a Doctor in the Vniuersitie were of opinion that for the good they esteemed might bee doone thereby I might swallowe the fonde and idle ceremonies which accompany it To the request of which friendes I yeelded But when his
is so auncient and that the originall thereof is not founde it should seeme to haue come from the Apostles They tearme the bringing-in of these authorities the mouing summoning of Hell they saye those tymes were not pure and virgine-like but departed from the Apostolicall simplicitie and doe treade them all vnder theyr feete with as great facilitie as may be Clement Anacletus and Anicetus are discharged for rogues and men branded in the foreheads Epiphanius wrote according to the time he liued in about 380. and though the name of Archbishop was in his time amongst Grecians yet it followeth not thereby that it was in vse amongst the Latines For Ambrose when Cartwright writte his first Booke and that they were not so throughlie angred as now they are hee onely gaue him this brande Ambrose holdeth other thinges corruptlye and then hee expoundeth him that of likelyhoode the Archbishop hee speaketh of was no other then he which for the time ruled the action when Bishops were ordayned and after the action ended hadde no more authoritie then the rest But since his choller increasing first hee beganne as he sayth in his second booke to suspect the place alledged out of his booke de dignitate Sacerdotum to be corrupted whereuppon within a short time after he grew to bee so hardened against him by finding some other things also in the saide booke which hee misliked that he hath bored him in the eare for a Roge likewise and sent him a rouing amongst his fellowes making the author of that booke a false Ambrose which is an vnlearned shift Sozomenus and Volusianus they writt not according to that which was but according to the custome and manner of the age wherein they wrotte As though he should saye they lied And as touching Augustine his sentence is approued say they vnaduisedly and that thereby a windowe is open to bring in all poperie Which is a lewde reproch For the antiquitie of the name of Archdeacon are alledged by D.W. the testimonies of Damasus Ierome Sixtus Sozemene Socrates To whose authorities their answere is two of them are counterfeits Damasus spake in the Dragons voice Amongst men the best ground beareth thistles those times were corrupt And yet Sixtus liued Bishop of Rome about the yeare 265. and was a godly martyr A number of authorities being cited which affirme that Timothie was Bishop of Ephesus as Eusebius Dorotheus Nicephorus Ierome Isidorus Dionysius Areopagita Epiphanius Ambrose Chrisostome Oecumenius Theodoret c. Their aunswere is They esteeme him a Bishop indeed and not an Euangelist But what then if they were for one a hundred they cannot counteruayle much lesse beare downe the testimony of the Apostle As though they euer purposed anye such matter But it goeth hard when for a matter of historie all these worthie Fathers can find no better credit If Timothy were Bishop of Ephesus I trust he will not say that the Apostle is ouerborne And that he was Bishop all these affirme it who liuing neerer to the Apostles times shold know aswell as Cartwright what was in fact then and being both as religious and as learned as he wold pretend to be could as easily haue espied what repugnāces there was betwixt that practise and the Apostles writings and would as earnestly haue reprooued it if there had beene any as hee Sainct Ciprian and Sainct Ierome are of opinion nay S. Ierome saith it was the opinion and the iudgement of the whole catholicke Church for so I interprete his words the whole worlde that for the auoyding of schismes and heresies it was necessarie that there should be one Bishop in euery Diocese as our learned writers haue thought of those places writing against the Papists to gouerne and ouer-rule the rest of the Priestes within their charge least otherwise as by experience it was found amongst the Corinthians there would be in short time as many schismes altars as there were priests and heades and that euery one might not carry his schollers after him and so following their own fancies teare in pieces the Church of Christ. With them in like manner all the godly generall Councels since that time haue agreed finding daily new mischiefs to arise which were not before hatched haue for the meeting with them increased accordinglye the authoritie of Bishops and so kept the church in good order at the least for aboue fiue hundred yeares Since which time although the Pope with extreme iniurie to all other Bishops hath lifted himselfe by a false title aboue not only thē but aboue al kings Emperors in like manner neuer ceasing till he hath set himselfe in the seate of the beast yet with many other points of Christianitie this also hath beene preserued that the gouernment of the church by Bishops in euery Kingdome prouince and Dioces is Apostolical and not only in that respect to be for euer continued but necessary also in regarde of the causes before mentioned But now all this is reckoned nothing There are some two or three that do take vpon them to prooue forsooth that all the said Fathers of the primatiue Church all Councells and all whosoeuer that haue liked that ordinaunce haue been deceaued in their iudgements in that they haue accounted the institution of Bishops their gouernment to be a means for the auoiding of schismes or for the maintenaunce of the peace of the Church But how they prooue it I will not stand now vppon that poynt It is forsooth in a worde by discourse of reason whereof Cartwright braggeth and for that as they saie there were great controuersies in the church notwithstanding their institution c. And now it is their Eldership must weare the Crowne and reforme all that is amisse Well what wee are to thinke of their Elderships we partly haue seene and yet shall heare more before I haue done In the meane time it is euident how they oppose their owne iudgement to all the world since Christs time Cyrillus for calling the Bishop 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 high priest as Ignatius hadde done in effect before the prince or chiefe of priests and Tertullian also Episcopus est summus Sacerdos the Bishop is the high priest is wonderfully censured Hee that bringeth in a priest into the church saith Cartwright goeth about to burye our Sauiour Christ. And as for him that bringeth in an high priest into the church hee goeth about to put our Sauiour Christ out of his office This that he affirmeth here toucheth not only Cyrill but the most I am sure of all the auncient Fathers who were as carefull for the office and prerogatiue of Christ and haue written as manye notable woorkes against such Hereticks as haue impugned his Soueraigntie in any respect as euer he or his Sectaries haue written or I thinke will doe But his breath maye well blast himselfe they I doubt not are in heauen and
scriptures So Cyprian so Gregory c. did carry some weight in S. Augustines opinion Those things which diuerse notable men haue alledged out of the auncient Fathers for the iustification of the present ecclesiasticall gouernment in the church of England ought not so lightly to bee regarded with euery princox What the Fathers haue written that agreeth not with our Phantasticall giddye headed fellowes pleasures they write it not of parciality either to grieue them or to gratifie vs but as trueth led theÌ„ Quod inuenerunt in ecclesia teneruÌ„t quod didiceruÌ„t docueruÌ„t quod a patribus acceperunt hoc filiis tradideruÌ„t that which they found in the church saith Augustine they held that which they had learned they taught that which they had receaued of theyr fathers they deliuered to theyr children Though Cartwright his companie do carrie so base a conceit of those times wherein the auncient fathers liued yet the Fathers themselues did not so thinke of theÌ„ Iulianus the heriticke did speake as it seemeth insuch a scornfull sorte of theÌ„ as our Sectaries do But S. Augustine laieth it to his reproch as an apparant argument of his great folly presumptioÌ„ thinking it a most absurd point for him so to vse them Vsque adeò permiscuit imis summa longus dies c. hath time so confounded all things saith Augustine is darknes growen to bee such light and is light it selfe turned into such darknes vt videant Pelagius Celestinus Iulianus et caeci sunt Hilarius Cpyrianus Ambrosius that Pelagius Celestinâ—s and Iulianus can see and Hilary Cyprian and Ambrose are become blind And surely I do not perceaue why I may not without offence applie the same wordes to those men in these daies which treade in the saide fellowes steppes concerning this their contempt pride Were there neuer learned men before you were taught the principles of the Geneua discipline was wisdom dead till you were borne Doe you know what was in the Apostles times better then they did who succeeded the Apostles were the auncient Fathers able to defende the greatest misteries of our saluation against so many pestilent heretiques and were they ignorant in the matters of the externall gouernment of the church Knew they the distinction of the three persons in the blessed Trinitie could they not find what difference Christ allowed off to be continued in his Church betwixt a Bishop and a priest Is the darknes which pride carieth with it groweÌ„ to be so light and is the light that shewed it selfe so many waies in the ancient fathers as in their singular learning great humilitie become such darknes that Cartwright Trauerse Fenner and such like but the shadows of learned men in respect should be thought so clearly sighted shall Ireneus Tertullian Cyprian Ambrose Hierome Chrysostome Augustine Gregory Hilarye and all the rest of those worthie men be reckoned blind Surely he is a bussard that thinketh so And therefore I will coÌ„clude this chapter with another saying of S. Augustines against such busie innouators as you are oportet vt populi christiani vestris prophanis nouitatibus anteponant c. It is meet that all christian people should preferre the auncient fathers before your nouelties eisque potius adherere quà m vobis rather sticke fast to their iudgements then to runne after your phansies CHAP. XXVIII Theyr dealing with all the new writers and many reformed churches when they make against them THis is a grounde layde downe by Cartwright that few men that are of any stayde or sounder iudgement in the scriptures and haue seene or read of the gouernment and order of other churches are against them in such matters as they haue broched vnto vs. And agreablie to this ground his answeres are framed when any thing is vrged against him out of anie of the new writers except Caluin and BeZa If either of them do happen to crosse him it is strange to see how he doubleth shifteth As for any other they are but a puffe with him hee careth not greatly howe hee handleth them Pellicane Bucer Bullinger Illyricus and Musculus affirming with all the auncient Fathers that Timothye was Bishop of Ephesus what then sayth Cartwright If they were for one a hundred they could not beare downe the Apostle As though they hadde euer ment it Luther expoundinge a place of Zacharie contrarie to his liking his exposition sayth Cartwright is out of season Musculus affirmeth that the places 20. of Sainct Mathew 10. of sainct Marke and 22. of sainct Luke vos autem non sic doe not condemne Superioritie but an ambitious desire and tyrannicall vsage of it but Caluin as learned as hee sayth Cartwright is of my iudgement Bucer holdeth that the sayde 20. of Mathew doth propound a generall rule to all magistrats and christians Where Cartwrights extenuating the authoritie of man braueth out Bucer with this that his iudgment hath counterpoise of other as learned Whereas Peter Martyr Bullinger and Gualter do bring diuerse reasons for the lawfull vse of the surplise and such other apparrell as is appointed with vs for Ministers Cartwright is so farre from being moued with their authoritie as that he aduentureth to confute their said reasons after his manner very sophistically affirming in effect but falsely that either they vnderstoode not auncient fathers alleadged by them for that purpose or that they peruerted their meaning Bishop Ridly and Maister Bucer approouing that where there are no preachers there should bee godly learned homilies read in those Churches Cartwright thus dismisseth Bishop Ridley being a partie in this cause hee ought to be no witnesse And for Maister Bucers wordes he saith they are not to be weighed insinuating that his booke concerning his iudgement in king Edwardes daies vppon the communion booke is counterfeited Againe of maister Bucer for his allowing of priuate baptisme and of the signe of the Crosse likewise of the ring in marriage and that the parties married should receiue the communion he saith Bucer hath other grosse absurdities to this authoritie I could oppose other men of as great authoritie sometimes Homer sleepeth his reasons are verie ridiculous verie slender and colde and sauour not of the learning and sharpnesse of the iudgement of maister Bucer Maister Fox in like sorte setting downe his full approbation of the present state ecclesiasticall that Archbishops should be in degree aboue Bishops and Bishops in degree aboue other Ministers and relying for this his iudgement partly vpon the scriptures and partly vppon the primatiue Church and concluding that this is to keepe an order duely and truely in the Church according to the true nature and definition of order by the authoritie of Augustine he is I say thus censured Maister Fox writing a storie doth take greater paine and looketh more diligently to declare what is done and in what time and by whome then howe iustly or vniustly how
speeches will pretende scriptures But when they haue so done tell them that they peruerte the scriptures to serue their turnes and that thus and thus they must vnderstand them according to the iudgement of all the auncient fathers their aunswere in effecte is this What tell you vs of the auncient fathers Caluin and Beza are the beste expounders of the scriptures Maister Cartwright is a rare birde a worthy wight and as it were Christ himselfe amongest his Apostles They haue taught vs as wee teach they are our fathers who haue begotten in vs a loue and a likinge of the Geneua Discipline and them will wee followe In truth it is pitifull to consider vnto what a height of pride many men are growen It is lesse subiecte to offence to reiect the authoritie of Saint Ierome Saint Augustine or anye of the rest nay to refuse them alltogether then to reiecte the iudgementes eyther of Caluin of Beza or of Cartwright For Maister Caluin and maister Beza I doe thinke of them and of their writinges as they deserue But yet I thinke better of the auncient fathers I must confesse it And for maister Cartwright it is true that hee hath many good partes in him but the ouer-weening which he hath of himselfe and which many besides haue of him is like a lumpe of dowe that sowereth both him and them all You haue heard of what accounte his writinges are with his sectaries insomuch that one of them saith in effecte both for himselfe and for his brethren that without Cartwrightes bookes they cannot come to the knowledge of the truth Cartwrights bookes the way to the truth To speake my conscience they are the waye to manye grosse errors and seditious fancies Of all his bookes I woulde thinke that should beare the price which containeth the iustification of all his deuises and is the last frutes of that Worthies wit I meane his second reply Touching the which booke you shall heare maister Doctor Whitakers opinion from whence especially if some one or two ioyned with him the layer out of men in colours as it hath been sayd will not hastily appeale Thus hee writeth Quem Cartwrightus nuper emisit libellum eius magnam partem perlegi Ne viuam si quid vnquam viderim dissolutius ac penè puerilius Verborum satis ille quidem lautam ac nouam supellectilem habet rerum omnino nullam quantum ego iudicare possum Deinde non modo peruersè de principis in rebus sacris at que ecclesiasticis authoritate sentit sed in papistarum etiam castra transfugit a quibus tamen videri vult odio capitali dissidere Verum nec in hac causa ferendus alijs etiam in partibus tela a papistis mutuatur Denique vt de Ambrosio dixit Hieronimus verbis ludit sententijs dormitat plane indignus est qui a quopiam docto resutetur That is I haue read a great part of that booke which maister Cartwright hath lately published vz this second reply I pray God I liue not if euer I saw any thing more loosely written and almost more childishly It is true that for wordes hee hath great store and those both fine and new but for matter as farre as I can iudge he is altogether barren Moreouer he doth not onely thinke peruersly of the authoritie of Princes in causes ecclesiasticall but also flyeth into the Papistes holdes from whome he would be thought to dissent with a mortall hatred But in this point he is not to be endured and in other partes also hee borroweth his argumentes from the Papistes To conclude as Ierome said of Ambrose hee playeth with wordes and is lame in his sentences and is altogether vnworthy to bee confuted by anie man of learning If anie shall heere obiect that maister Whittakers was not Doctor when hee writ in this sorte My aunswere is this Hee writ this letter about the same time that he beganne to write against Campian when hè had attained alreadie vnto suche ripenesse of iudgement as there is no more daunger hee should nowe be altered in this that hee hath written of Cartwrightes booke then that he should alter heereafter from that trueth which he maintained about the same time against Campian And it is true that hee neuer gaue a righter censure of anie booke in his life Maister Cartwright must content himselfe with it and so must his followers He dependeth himselfe too much vppon Caluin and Beza and so do many amongest vs vppon him Such admiration of mens persons and of their learning must needes be very dangerous It hath euer been the cause of schisme And there was neuer more mischiefe like to grow of it then there is now For I know not how it commeth about but you shall seldome finde any who hath once tasted of the Disciplinary potion that is not forthwith possessed as it were with a wonderfull opinion not onely of the chiefe confectioners and fauourers of it but likewise of themselues And for all other men Fathers Councels newe or olde they little esteeme them if they make any thing against them I might heape vp in this place a number of obseruations which haue been made many hundreth yeares since as concerning suche like courses taken by many and howe they neuer gat to themselues any true reputation thereby but the contrary But I will spare them therein Onely I cannot choose but tell them that the auncient fathers were as wise and learned men as they are that the olde generall Councelles ought to be of as great credite with any but madde men as their conuenticles or Synodes that although wee ought to depend onely vpon the worde of God yet for the interpretation of it we may as safely follow the iudgementes of the auncient fathers of the first generall Councels and of some other learned men as of any of their chiefe patrones and maisters that howsoeuer our owne men doe thinke of themselues yet they are no better then other men Nay there are many equall to the best of them and many who are farre their superiours And I take it that he sheweth himselfe to be their best friendes who by telling them their wantes can bring them to some humilitie In which respect Maister Cartwright is to thanke Doctor Whittakers for signifiyng his iudgement touching that his great bundell of shreddes which some rashe and fond men doe so greatly admire It is most certaine that although the flattering of Parasites doth seeme to bee pleasant yet the woundes of a louer are much more profitable CHAP. XXX How falsly they alleadge the auncient fathers for their pretended parish Bishops and Elders BY that which hath been said in the 5. chapter it appeareth vnto you what litle help they are to look for in the ancient fathers toward the setting forth of the Geneua plat forme They talke of certaine steps traces of that hare in them but more they confesse in some places that they cānot find And yet notwithstanding
at another time and when they haue forgotten themselues they will of purpose I feare it to abuse the worlde stand very much vppon the auncient fathers and bragge of their authoritie exceedingly As Cartwright doth in these words most vntruly We propound nothing saith he that the scriptures doe not teach the writers both olde and newe for the most part affirme and the examples of the primitiue Churches confirme Did euer any manne regard Cartwrightes credite who considering what hath beene noted out of his bookes in this whole processe doeth not pittie him with all his harte to heare him so farre to forget himselfe Hee is a manne of good learning which maketh mee to woonder at him It is surely great pittie that euer hee was so maried vnto his Eldershippe For it hath vtterly ouerthrowne all the good partes that bee in him The best lawyer that is when hee giueth himselfe to shiftes and to feed his clyentes with quirkes refusing not to brabble in anye cause be it neuer so false he looseth his estimation and with the grauer sort is little regarded Howe truely Maister Cartwright affirmeth that he and his fellows do propound nothing but that the old writers for the most parte doe affirme and the examples of the primitiue church confirme I trust it hath in part already appeared vnto you in sundry places but especially in the 5. as I saide and in the 27. Chapters I haue heard some Councellers at lawe vse the verye like course of speach when notwithstanding the cause hath falne out most directly against them yet they haue cried out Oh my Lord wee haue these and these olde euidences to shewe such and such depositions doe make for vs verye manifestly wee haue yet many witnesses to bee examined and thus they will proceed with many cracking wordes as though there had beene nothing which had made against them Is Cartwright able trowe you to finde his Parish Bishops and his counterfeit Lay-Elders which two pointes are in effecte all in all with him in the auncient fathers and primitiue Church Hee maye say as truely that the Sonne shines at midnight But yet hee sayth that Ignatius and Cyprians Bishops were but as our pastors or parsons arein euery parish For his vnministering Elders hee alledgeth the same Ignatius and Cyprian and for a surcharge hee bringeth in also Tertullian Hierome Possidonius and Socrates where they make mention of priests I was once purposed to haue set downe the places themselues which they so violently peruerte to bolster out such theyr apparaunt falshood and to haue aunswered them But then I remembred howe effectually that had beene done allready by diuers learned and woorthie menne and of late more fully and largely by two especiall persons whose books one of them is in printing and the other presently comming to the presse and therevpon I altered my mind in that point And yet something thereof agreeably to the course which hetherto I haue obserued that may peraduenture amaze some of them Vppon some occasion falling out maister Cartwright affirmeth that if the now Lord Arch-bishop of Canterbury had read the ecclesiasticall stories hee shoulde haue founde easiely the Eldership most florishing in Constantines time vz. in hauing then such Bishops and Elders as hee fancieth to himselfe For he must bee so vnderstood To whome replie being made that he should bring but one ecclesiasticall historie that affirmed so much after some three or fower yeares hee brought two vz. the historie of Magdeburge and Eusebius His testimony out of the first he setteth down in these words The centuries must needes haue told him that the same orders and functions of the church were in that time which were before And what would he inferre hereof Surely if hemeane honestly and doe not dally with the word before refering it further then the Centuries meant it which was but to the age that succeeded the Apostles he could not haue directed a man to any history now extant that doth more directly confound his assertion For there the authors of that history doe most plainely affirme that by and by after the Apostles death necessitas coegit personarum gradus aliquos constituere et conseruare necessity compelled the fathers then liuing to ordaine certaine degrees of persons in the church and to conserue them This is most directly against Cartwrights assertion although for mine own part to note it by the way I thinke the Apostles knowing the necessitie mentioned had taken that order before But to follow the said historie There were three degrees then ordained say the said authors vz. Episcopatus presbyterium Diaconatus the degree of Bishops of priesthood and of Deaconship For the proofe whereof they cite Ignatius Eusebius Theodoret c. and the very place of S. Ierome where he sheweth how for auoiding of schisme one was chosen amongst the ministers to haue preheminence ouer the rest and to whome the name of Bishop was peculiarly then attributed And as concerning the priests or Elders they doe shew it out of Eusebius Nicephorus Irenaeus Iustine c. that their office was to preach the Gospell and to administer the sacraments c. The Centuries thus we see will not serue M. Cartwrights turne to the iustifying of the florishing estate of his Eldership in Constantines daies I wil therfore come vnto his sec̄od authority which he bringeth out of Eusebius It is manifest saith he that the churches were gouerned vnder Constantine by Bishops Elders and Deacons by that which is recited of an infinit number of Elders and Deacons which came to the Councel of Nice with the 250. Bishops It is manifest indeede And it is also as manifeste that there were at that time both Archbishops and Patriarches But there were at that Councel both Bishops Elders and Deacons And what then I know that many men haue wrested many places directly contrarie to the authors meaninge but I doe not remember anie one place within the compasse of my small readinge that is more grosly peruerted then this place is For M. Cartwright running still his old biace would haue men to thinke that by Bishops Eusebius meant so many parishe-ministers and by priests or Elders his said counterfaite Aldermen And his authoritie is so greate amongest his sectaries who professe their Gleaninge after him that what-so-euer he bringeth they take it vpon his credit and so runne on with a conceite that not onely all other authorities brought by him out of the auntient Fathers mentioned are truely by him expounded and applyed but that also euen this place of Eusebius is to bee vnderstood as here he woulde haue it Wherein surely they are much to blame to depend so much vpon any mans credit If they them-selues had euer read either the Fathers or the ecclesiasticall histories they coulde neuer possibly haue beene miscarried so palpably A frinde of mine hauinge some talke not many yeares since with Maister Cartwright about this place of Eusebius
no longer this wonderfull thing that Trauerse speaketh off is this vz. that as it seemeth some of the said Churches so highly by him commended haue by vertue of their discipline excommunicated alreadie some great princes or Kinges If he had not himselfe published this matter in print and propounded the same as a president for the honour of his discipline I would not haue presumed yee maie be sure to haue touched it Neyther yet will I further meddle with it then onely to set downe his wordes After a long discourse how where there discipline is on foote there is nothing in effect amisse no priuate administration of the sacraments no baptizing or reading of seruice by Deacons no commutation of pennaunce no respect of persons he saith thus Memorable is that rare but right christian example of Theodosius the Emperor publicklye humbling himselfe vnder the hande of God and professing his repentance for his bloodye commaundement and the cruell execution done accordinge to it A president well worthy so christian a prince the honour of the Discipline yea and of the whole church of that age Such Theodosians haue the reformed churches of this age to speake off to the high honor of almighty God and his onlye begotten sonne Christ Iesus king of kinges Wherein a Prince of bloode royall and by birth within a step or two to one of the greatest Kingdomes of these partes of the worlde and for princely giftes worthy to haue borne a Scepter in his hande and a Diademe vpon his heade when as another Dauid hee hadde been ouerthrowen by Sathan and committed things for which the name of God was euill spoken off endured to heare the seruant of God as Dauid did Nathan to rebuke him lamenting his offence openly before the publicke assembly of the Church desired pardon of God and reioyced heauen and earth men and Angels with his conuersion from sinne to the obedience of the liuing God blessed for euer Amen Whose christian president both a crowned King and also a worthie sonne of that noble Father haue followed after that by terror of as barbarous crueltie as hath beene commited in any age they had done otherwise then Daniell and the yonge princes brought vp with him did in a case not vnlike to theyrs c. Hitherto Trauers And what this importeth iudge you I will aunswere no questions who these Theodosians are As princes like it let them allow it And thus of the commendation of this gouernment which if it were true indeed and that it had by any lawfull title so Regall an authority as here you see is pretended who would not almost fall downe and worshippe it But you must belieue them with discretion Men that thinke they know this platforme as well as the best of those that haue extolled it do carrie a farre differing opinion of it And therefore they haue been bold to write of it as followeth It is a sillye Presbytery or Eldership A sequestred withdrawen Presbyterye A sweeping new reformation A presumptuous irregular Consistory which hath no grounde in the worde of God A second beast Let them consider how far the â—auinge of such a Consistorie and Pastor in one Congregation differeth from that Apostolicall sea of Rome and that holy father that sitteth therein Of this Consistorie through the whole testament they can shew no warraunt They make themselues transgressors of the worshippe of God disturbers violaters of that holy order which Christ hath established in his Church These deceitfull workemen not onelye builde theyr owne timber and stubble deuises but most highly prophane that heauenly frame and gratious gouernement of Christ. In their leauened and corrupt writings of discipline and theyr supplications vnto the Parliament are declared theyr pernitious forgeries and sacrilegious prophanation of Gods holy ordinance They fetch their reformation from the primatiue defection That counterfeyt reformation which these counterfeit preachers pretende is as euill as that which is alreadie Both these factions pontificall and reformists woulde assume the whole gouernment of the Church into theyr owne handes How can o these forgers these coyners of religion seeme sue to cast out the heape of humane traditions as contrary and such as cannot bee ioyned vnto or with the testament of Christ and yet bring in these forgeries of theyr owne Is it likely or possible that our Sauiour Christ woulde fetch his patterne for the Elders of his Church and the executing of these high iudgements from that corrupt degenerate Synedrion of the Iewes which by the institutioÌ„ of God was merely ciuile and not ordayned for causes ecclesiasticall as appeareth Exod. 18. Num. 11. Deut. 1 The priestes bearing the charge and hauing the deciding of all ecclesiasticall causes Num. 18. Deut. 17. But this Councell of theyrs was now mixed of the Elders of the people and the Priestes and handled all causes both ciuile and Ecclesiasticall indifferently Mat. 26.3 Act. 4.5 If by the light of Gods word you examine and measure the secret Classis the ordinary sette Synods and Councels of ministers as they tearme themselues which these reformists now priuilie bring in and would openly set vp they shall no doubt be found as new strange antichristiaÌ„ as preiudicial to the libertie of the Saincts and to the power right and duties of the whole Church and as contrary to the gospell of our Lord Iesus Christ as the gouernement by Bishops c. what shew so euer of former antiquitie or of present necessitie they may pretend It is a new r adulterate forged gouernement in shew or rather in dispight of Christs blessed gouernment which they in pride rashnes ignoraunce and sensualytye of theyr fleshly hartes most miserablye innouate corrupt and peruert Theyr most exquisite plots of gouernment which they can deuise vnto theÌ„selues are but the instruments of foolish shepeheards to theyr owne perdition and of as many as are gouerned by them There is great difference we may perceiue hereby betweene the opinions of these two sorts of men concerning this presbyteriall forme of the new pretended discipline If any that are possessed with the former mens conceites shall lightly esteeme what this second sort of fellowes doe hold or thinke of their platforme he is to be put in mind that they are not so lightly to be regarded Diuerse ministers well reckoned of heretofore for their learning are lately fallen from Cartwright and his secte into another more new frenzy of Barrowisme In a letter that was taken not long since I find some points to this effect The preachers of Midleborow and Flushing haue both giuen ouer their vnlawfull callings M. Iohnson hath written a most learned discourse concerning the striking of a newe couenaunt with some conferences had in that country It is also reported and I am perswaded by that which I haue seene that the report is true vz. that maister Penry is entered in like manner into this
new kind of couenant A matter that would seeme very strange vnto me but that I know the nature of schismatickes to bee of such giddinesse as that no one thinge will content them longe What stirres hath hee kept in England first with his two supplications vnto the high court of Parlaiment his humble petition vnto her Maiestie his exhortation vnto the gouernours and people of Wales his Theses and libells which came out vnder the name of Martin and his children wherein hee with his companion a certaine gentleman were if not authors yet especiall dealers and then with his treatises out of Scotland That reformation hee meaneth the setting vppe of Cartwrightes Eldershippes is no ennemie to our state his humble motion if not made by him yet procured by him to bee printed His discouery against D.B. and with diuerse other pamphlets and most rayling discourses In all which bookes hee hath shewed such earnestnesse in the behalfe principally of Cartwrights discipline that hee hath offered to pawn his life many times for the iustification of it Which course of his by reason of his merueilous vehemency wrought very greatly as all menne knowe with certaine rashe and vnstaied persons who haue bene since so farre ouercaried with an opinion of the argumentes there vsed as it hath beene giuen out many times by them that they coulde neuer bee aunswered And yet now if he bee one of Barrowes church notwithstanding all his former writings and arguments you haue heard his opinion out of his brethrens mouthes both of Cartwrights presbyteries and of all those likewise that doe maintaine them Some will saie peraduenture that for Penry they neuer made anye reckoning of him And it is well But what if one of their Patriarckes beginne to wauer How if maister Trauerse bee inclined that way For mine owne part I doe not thinke him so simple a man But yet you shall heare what goeth abroad amongest that brainesicke generation as it is set downe in the letter before mentioned There is good hope saith the writer of it to one of his frends of one Maister Trauerse about London as I thinke but howe farre hee is come or whereat hee stayes I cannot at this time certifie you But howsoeuer hee standeth affected you may assure your selues that this latter schisme groweth on very fast In somuch that as Cartwright and his brethren beganne eight or nine yeares since to set vppe and put in practise theyr Geneuian discipline so doe these newe vpstartes beginne to erecte in diuerse places theyr Barrowish Synagogues and I knowe not what cages of franticke schismatickes One Collins a man amongest them not vnlearned as it seemeth doeth write in this sorte hereof Ecclesia potenti eius dextra adiuta c. The church assisted with the mightie right hande of God hath chosen ministers Maister Iohnson for her pastor Maister Greenwood for her Doctor Maister Studly and Maister George Knife for her Elders Nicholas Lee and Christopher Browne for her Deacons The other assembly also wherevnto are added Iohn Nicholas Thomas Michell Iohn Barnes and some others with mee with Gods assistaunce will beginne out of hand to create vnto it selfe ministers And thus they goe on forward headlong god knowes whether I am perswaded that if there be not good order taken in this behalf there wil some mischief grow of it The number of them doth encrease daily more more And for the repressing of them it will not be sufficient in mine opinion to vse the ordinarie course by the ecclesiasticall censures or cōmission For they are entered into a league amongest themselues of all manner of secrecy for the not detecting one of another in any of their proceedinges when by great chaunce some two or three are met with all If you finde any writinges amongest them you may thereby learne some thinge peraduenture otherwise they will confesse nothinge And offer them an oathe not to accuse themselues but to purge themselues and as witnesses to signifie their knowledge in those pointes they are to bee examined off as touching other mens factes they haue gotten the Iesuites doctrine as you may see it in their annotations vppon the Rhemish Testament and amplifyed lately by Cartwright and his crue that they may neyther accuse themselues nor their brethren for doynge of those thinges which they allow off themselues If their nomber should increase so as they mighte bee able to doe and set vp what they list according to one of their grounds vz. without any longer stayinge for the Magistrate and so shoulde breake forth into open rebellion they might by no meanes be examined vpon their oathes because they will say they haue done nothing but what they were bound to doe and that therefore they might detect no man wherby to bring him within the compasse of any law for doing his duety But I will not enter into this matter the cause I mentioned it is the increasing of this schisme and their league of fidelitie one to an other I sayd the number of them would daily bee augmented and you shall haue my reasons why I thinke so They are verily perswaded that they holde almost nothing but what Cartwright and his schollers haue taught them One of them hath taken vppon him to prooue the chiefest of their newe assertions by their more auncient propositions I like well saith Greenewood in a letter intercepted of the arguments you haue drawen against them from their own groundes Againe Surely it were a notable worke and no doubt might doe much good in these times for some one that God hath indued with sound iudgement and sharpe sight to gather the maiors or antecedents of all those scattered pamphlets of Penries or Martins c. and put newe minors or conclusions vnto them and so in one little nosegay but as bigg as an almanack to turne them vpon them-selues and present them vnto them for an answere There are two especiall points for the which we dislike them their departing from our churches the framinge to them-selues of a Church of their owne And for both these points heare what they may say and what indeede in effect they doe say and consider withall of these thinges which here I will set downe as sufficient matter for a minor that Barrowe may worke vppon Thus our holy consistorians haue written vz. That the gouernement of our Church is by the popishe Hierarchy so is both Antichristian and diuelishe that it is accursed and that none but traitors to God doe defend it that our religion is patched with the popes wherby we ioine fire and water heauen and hell together that we want a right ministerie that in the order of our seruice there is nothing but confusion that we eate not the Lordes supper but play a pageant of our own to make the silly soules beleeue they haue an Englishe masse that so we put no difference betwixt truth and falshood betwixt Christ and Antichrist
Iustice. By this the wealth and honour of the Realme woulde be encreased and contentions brawles and vnnecessary pleas would be preuented idle men of all sortes might be sette in order and the poore men greatly comforted The nobility and comminalty might haue their right Men would not grudge at triflinge charges for Warre Souldiers woulde bee made obedient to their Captaines patient and couragious It woulde bring strength and victorie and keepe out of Kinges Dominions ignoraunt wicked and flattering men Here out of the defence of Ecclesiasticall gouernement Pag. 121. 122. 123. 127. 134. Whereof commeth it that Arrians Valentinians and Anabaptistes with other detestable Heretiques are so rise in many places in this land is it not thereof that there is no Eldership Whereof commeth it that horrible blaspheming the holye and most reuerend name of God quarrelling and fighting dronkennes filthy speaking fornication adultery slaundering and such like runne ouer almost in euery place Is it not hereof that there is no Eldership Whereof commeth it that in so many excellent lawes prouided against rogues and beggers there are yet such numbers is it not hereof that the office of Deacons is abolished These are singular commodities indeede which these Elderships woulde bring with them if these men might be trusted But haue they brought forth these fruicts and effectes in those countries where they are established or are they but vaine wordes of ambitious men that by such godly pretences doe little else but seeke their owne glory Consider I pray you what very learned and graue men haue written in other countries of these and such like men as these and their fellowes are together with the estate of some of those countreis wher they haue their Elderships Maister Bullinger writing to a Bishop in England of our English innouators saith thus They imitate in mine opinion those seditious Tribunes of Rome who by vertue of the Agrarian Lawe bestowed the publicke goods that they might priuately inritch themselues that is that you meaning the Bishops being ouerthrowen they might succeede in your places c. But they goe about to erect a Church which they shall neuer aduaunce as they desire neither if they shoulde can they euer be able to continue it And after in the same Letter I woulde to God there were not in the Authors of this Presbytery libido dominandi an ambitious desire of rule and principality Nay I thinke it ought especially to be prouided for that there be not any high authoritye giuen to this Presbytery c. Whereof manie thinges might bee saide but time will reueale many thinges which yet lie hidde Maister Gualter in like sorte writeth thus to the Bishop of London for the time being Many doe vrge in these daies vnder a plausible name of Ecclesiasticall Discipline I know not what a platforme without the which they denie that any Churches can continue But I doe greatly feare least they bringe vs in an Aristocratie which will shortly degenerate into an Oligarchie and become the beginning of a newe Papacie For their onely labour is to sette vs vp a Presbyterie whereinto certaine honest men are indeede admitted but yet so as the Ministers will doe in a manner what they list It was of late decreed by the Ministers at Heidelberge that no man should bee admitted to the Lords Supper except he first offered himselfe to the Pastor For Paules rule is not helde sufficient there vz. that euerie man should trie himselfe The Elders did not agree to this decree but yet notwithstading it is vrged in the name of the Presbytery nay of the whole Church c. But there was not long since suche an example of a new tyrannie there as may iustlie feare anie that careth for the liberty of the Church There is there an Heluetian the Gouernour of the Colledge of Saint Denis as innocent and godly a man as liueth Howbeit Oleuianus the Pastor warned him by the crier of the Presbyterie in the name of all the Elders that he should not come to the Lordes Supper adding this cause that he could not admit him absque animi sui offensione without the offence of his minde The party tooke this dealing as it was reason in euill part and defireth to know what he hath committed that deserued such a punishment But they answered him not otherwise then that they continued in the same minde Whereuppon he offered a Supplication vnto the prince Elector that he would compell them to shewe the fault if there were any that he had committed But vntill this daie he coulde extort nothing else in effect from them This is their goodly order this is their Discipline Quare video nobis seriò vigilandum esse ne ex Romanae hydrae vix domitae vulneribus noua capita pullulent wherefore I see we are to be vigilant least new heads doe budde out of the woundes of the Romish hydra scarsely yet subdued And in another letter to the Bishop of Ely of the same matter he addeth that the Prince Elector vppon the said parties complaint did moue the Elders to shew what hee had committed that they dealt so with him Sed ne hoc ab illis impetrare potuit but he could not preuaile so much Marry at the last saith Maister Gualter being many waies more earnestly vrged thereunto they fell to coining of lies and perswaded the Prince that he abstained from the Lords supper of his own accord and now of that his voluntary forbearing woulde knowe the cause of them Many such things are done which it woulde be too long to rehearse Seeing they beginne in this sorte hauing not as yet any full possession of their new kingdom what shall we thinke they will doe si merum imperium obtineant if they obtaine an absolute authority By this letter also it seemeth that long since by Oecolampadius meanes notwithstandinge Zwinglius withstood it there was such a like forme of regiment erected in Basill but shortly after saieth Maister Gualter he was compelled to giue it ouer againe learning by experience that he had attempted a matter of greater discommodity then profite I cannot therefore dislike of them that oppose themselues to these endeuours who so busily in these daies pleade this for matter c. There are in Germanie and in another certaine plâ—â—e hee meaneth I thinke Geneua that denie the kingdome of Christ canne continue except the Discipline which they haue deuised be receaued in euery place I doc containe my selfe that I may not bee saide to haue begonne the fight Sin illi Classicum cecinerint but if they sound vp the Alarum I cannot choose but defend the doctrine of truth and the libertie of the Church not doubting but that many will ioyne with mee herein The same Gualter also again in another letter to the said Bishop of Ely I shall not neede to vse many wordes what I thinke of your innouators sith I haue done it in my last
her particular officers both men and women after her owne humor to doe nothing else but carrie her purse and wash her feete A Discipline that by reason of her traine would be very chargeable A Discipline that hopeth to turne all the Church liuinges which either are or haue beene belike into Nunries and so to become herselfe the Prioresse of them all A Discipline that will needes be a new Pope Ioane and haue to deale in all ecclesiasticall causes either by hooke or crooke nay almost in all sortes of matters whatsoeuer A Discipline of such partiality as what she condemneth in others she approueth in herselfe A Discipline that disdaineth the auncient fathers and generall councells A Discipline that dareth to disgrace any of the new writers if they take not her part A Discipline that seemeth to allowe of nothinge but scriptures yet dependeth alltogether vpon her owne friends and Synods A Discipline that sometime to dazle mens eies withall can be content to pretend that the auncient fathers and councells doe plead for her estate but shee doth peruerte them A Discipline that to serue her turne doth wringe and wrest the scriptures this way and that way as she is disposed A Discipline that possesseth men with so greate selfe-loue and pride as for wante of good neighbours they are faine to take paines to commende themselues A Discipline that is contented to bee magnified and exalted against all that is called god vpon earth A Discipline that is vtterly forsaken by many that haue beene her friendes A Discipline accounted by those that do stil remaine her best friends not to be so necessarie as heretofore she hath beene reputed A Discipline that promiseth mountaines and bringes forth Myce. A Discipline that is greatly disliked for her pride her making of debate where she comes her taking vpon her like an Empresse to commaund and rule at her pleasure In these respects and many other which I could alleadge she is I say a discipline that is greatly disliked of sundry of her neighbours and euen of them who when she was at the last gaspe did reuiue her little suspectinge that euer shee would haue proued so ambitious a creature as since by experience they haue found her to be And therefore for mine owne part seeing I finde no country as yet that is so greatly to be enuied for any especiall happines that this pretended Cherubin hath brought forth or procured where shee is receiued I will continue my former praier that the Church of England be neuer troubled with such a discipline but that our olde and present Apostolicall forme of Church-gouernment vnder her excellent Maiestie by Arch-bishops or Arch-builders and Bishops practised in the Apostles times approued by all the auncient fathers and generall councells and continued in this land since the time that it first professed christianitie may together with her Highnesse our most Soueraigne Lady be long many happy yeares mainetayned blessed and preserued amongst vs. The which allmightie God graunt for his Sonne Iesus Christs sake our Lord. Amen Errata Pag. 17. lin 15. for Elders read orders Pag. 21. lin 31. for he told him read he told them Pag. 43. lin 22. for her full read theyr full Pag. 58. lin 8. for comming read conning Pag. 71. lin 6. 7. for out Bathes read out of the Bathes Pag. 73. lin 25. for scroules read scrappes Pag. 75. lin 14. for reparation read reputation Pag. 75. lin 29. for carries read carrieers Pag. 92. lin 11. for nominaum read nominauit Pag. ead lin 20. for protrahere read pertrahere Pag. 96. lin 11. for reasonable read vsuall Pag. 117. lin 24. for capitali read capituli Pag. 122. lin 18. for nisters read ministers Pag. 141. lin for or read eyther Pag. 143. lin 3. for not read most Pag. 145. lin 7. for all read almost all Pag. 146. lin 13. for then read they pag. 148. lin 5. for Vezelius read Pezelius pag. 149. lin 6. for his read these pag. 155. lin 29. there wants to pag. 171. lin 3. for laicis read laicos pag. 195. lin 2. for cares read eares pag. 216. lin 28. for adherent read adherents pag. 221. lin 8. for doth read doteth pag. 225. lin 22. for tendeth read tend pag. 228. lin 14. accommotated read accommodated pag. 231. lin 9. for to read of Ibi. lin 22. for preacher preachers pag. 231. lin 31. for precisely read pretily pag. 234. lin 30. for hath read haue pag. 238. lin 1. the which course read the course which pag. 291. lin 28. for more read meere Pag. 340. lin 26. for all proude read all that proude pag. 342. lin 27. auncienty for antiquitie pag. 346. lin 24. amst for amongst pag. 350. lin 9. for to Aerius read of Aerius pag. 353. lin 28. for as you are read as they are pag. 355. lin 10. not auncient for not the auncient pag. 374. lin 21. the word can is omitted pag. 375. lin 24. for know read knew pag. 377. lin 23. simple read simple men pag. 392. lin 16. read former chapter pag. 393. lin 3. for Adrius read Aerius pag. 397. lin 3. for Bishop read Bishops pag. 399. lin 19. read thus aswell with very manie of their maisters as with their schollers pag. 405. lin 28. for he should read he should not pag. 486. lin 21. for this read his FINIS Psal. 58. Esay 62 1. Caluin vpon Esay Euang Regni H.N. 1 Exhortation pag. 33 43. Euang Regni The Barroâ—â—ists Petition directed to her Maiestie Esra 4. Psal. 12. Psal. 138. Numb 16. Treatise of obedience Ibid. pa. 114. Ibid. Iohn Wall oâ— Ball in the time of Iacke Cades rebellion in Rich. 2. daies Chroni par vlt. Munster Simlerus de repub Helu Munster Bodinus de repub pa. 353 Caluin to Sadolet pag. 172 Ibid. Bodinus de repub pa. 353 Bodi meth pag. 243. De. repubHelu Munster Cos. Sleidan lib. 10 Simlerus de rep Heluit D. L. Cap. 25. Aphoris 21. De auth mag in subd c. vindic cont Tirannos Hottom Francog c. Beza in vita Calu. Calu. de neces ref eccl pa. 64. Calu to Sad Beza in vit Calu Ibid. Beza in vit Calu. Capit. to Farell epl Cal. 6 Beza invit Cal. Capit to Farell epl Cal. 6. Beza in vit Cal Capit. to Farell epl Cal. 6. Cal. epI. 40 Beza in vit Cal. Cal. epl 10. Calu. epist. 17 Beza in Vit. Calu. Calu. to Viret Epist. 25. Calu. to Farel Epist. 50. Calu. epist. 54. Beza in Vit. Calu. Cal. to Viret Epist. 76. Calu. Epist. 71 Ibidem Cal to Viret cp 77. Cal to Farell ep 23. Cal. to Viret ep 25. Cal. ep 79. Cal. to Viret ep 73. Cal. to Viret ep 3. Cal. to Viret ep 73. Cal. to Viret ep 82. Cal. ep 165. Beza de vit Caluin Calu. to the minist of Tig. ep 165. Calu. to Bul. epist. 164. Calu. to the minist of Zurick epist. 165 Ibid. Ibidem Bullinger to Cal. epist. 166 Bul. to Calu. epist. 166. Bul.