ought to haue rectified by meanes inowe if Pride Ambition Obstinacy c. had giuen him leaue I grant he was touched with scruple of conscience but it was because he had forsaken the visible Church of Christ and I beseech all Protestants for the loue they beare to that sacred ransome of their soules the Bloud of our blessed Sauior attentiuely to ponder and vnpartially to apply to their owne Conscience what this Man spoke concerning the feelings and remorse of his How often sayth he did my trembling heart (p) Tom. 2. Germ Jen. fol. 9. tom 2. Witt. of anno 1562 de abrong Miss prnat fol. 244. beate within me and reprehending me obiect against me that most strong argument Art thou only wise Do so many worlds erre Were so many ages ignorant What if thou errest and drawest so many into hell to be damned eternally with thee And in another place he sayth Dost thou who art but One and of no (q) Tom. 5. Annot. breniss account take vpon thee so great matters What if thou being but one offendest If God permit such so many and all to erre why may he not permit thee to erre To this belong those arguments the Church the Church the Fathers the Fathers the Councels the Customes the multitudes and greatnes of wise men Whom do not these Mountaines of arguments these clouds yea these seas of Examples ouerthrow And these thoughts wrought so deepe in his soule that he often wished and desired that he had (r) Colloq menfal fol. 158. neuer begun this businesse wishing yet further that his Writings were burned and buried (s) Praefat. in tom German Ien. in eternall obliuion Behold what remorse Luther felt and how he wanted no strength of malice to crosse his owne conscience and therfore it was no scruple or conceiued obligation of conscience but some other motiues which induced him to oppose the Church And if yet you doubt of his courage to encounter and strength to maister all reluctations of conscience heare an example or two for that purpose Of Communion vnder both kinds thus he sayth If the Councell (t) De formula inissae should in any case decree this least of all would we then vse both kinds yea rather in despight of the Councell and that Decree we would vse either but one kind only or neither and in no case both Was not Luther perswaded in Conscience that to vse neither kind was against our Sauiours commaund Is this only to offer his opinion to be considered of as you said all men ought to do And that you may be sure that he spoke from his heart and if occasion had been offered would haue been as good as his word marke what he sayth of the Eleuation of the Sacrament I did know (u) In parna Confess the Eleuation of the Sacrament to be Idolatricall yet neuerthelesse I did retaine it in the Church at Wittemberge to the end I might vex the diuell Carolostadius Was not this a conscience large and capacious inough that could swallow Idolatry Why would he not toleate Idolatry in the Church of Rome as these men are wont to blaspheme if he could retaine it in his owne Church at Wittemberge If Carolostadius Luthers of spring was the Diuel who but himselfe must be his damme Is Almighty God wont to send such furies to preach the Ghospell And yet further which makes most directly to the point in hand Luther in his Booke of abrogaing the Priuate Masse exhorts the Augustines Friars of Wittemberg who first abrogated the Masse that euen against their conscience accusing them they should persist in what they had begun acknowledging that in some things he himselfe had done the like Vid. Tan. tom 2. disput 1. q. 2. dub 4. n. 108. And Ioannes Mathefias a Luther an Preacher sayth Antonius Musa the Parish Priest (w) In orat Germ. 12. as Lath. of Rocklitz recounted to me that on a time he hartily moaned himselfe to the Doctor he meanes Luther that he himself could not belieue what he preached to others And that D. Luther answered praise and thankes be to God that this happens also to others for I had thought it had happened only to me Are not these conscionable and fit Reformers And can they be excused from Schisme vnder pretence that they held themselues obliged to forsake the Roman Church If then it be damnable to proceed against ones conscience what will become of Luther who against his conscience persisted in his diuision from the Roman Church 44. Some are said to flatter themselues with another pernicious conceit that they forsooth are not guilty of sinne Because they were not the first Authors but only are the continuers of the Schisme which was already begunne 45. But it is hard to belieue that any man of iudgment can thinke this excuse will subsist when he shall come to giue vp his finall accōpt For according to this reason no Schisme wil be damnable but only to the Beginners Wheras contrarily the longer it continues the worse it growes to be and at length degenerates to Heresy as wine by long keeping growes to be Vinegar but not by continuance returnes againe to his former nature of wine Thus S. Augustine saith that Heresy is (x) Lib. 2. cont Crese c. 7. Schisme inueterate And in another place We obiect to you only the (y) Ep. 164. crime of Schisme which you haue also made to become H. resy by euill perseuering therin And S. Hierom sayth Though Schisme (z) Vpon these words ad Pit 3. Haereticum hominē c. in the beginning may be in some sort vnderstood to be differēt from heresy yet there is no Schisme which doth not faigne to it selfe some Heresy that it may seeme to haue departed from the Church vpon iust cause And so indeed it falleth out For men may beginne vpon passion but afterward by instinct of corrupt nature seeking to maintaine their Schisme as lawfull they fall into some Heresy without which their Separation could not be iustified with any colour as in our present case the very affirming that it is lawfull to continue a Schisme vnlawfully begunne is an error against the maine principle of Christianity that it is not lawfull for any Christian to liue our of God's Church within which alone Saluation can be had Or that it is not damnable to disobey her Decrees according to the words of our Sauiour If he shall not seare (a) Matt. 18. the Church let him be to thee as a Pagan or Publican And He (b) Iue 10.16 that despiseth you despiseth me We heard aboue Optatus Mileuitanus saying to Parmenianus that both he and all those other who cōtinued in the Schisme begun by Maiorinus did inherite their Forefathers Schisme and yet Parmenianus was the third Bishop after Maiorinus in his Sea and did not begin but only continue the Schisme For sayth this holy Father Caecilianus (c) Lib. 2.
points and in particuler in this that Scripture alone is Iudge of Controuersies And so the very principle vpon which their whole faith is grounded remaines to them vncertaine and on the other side for the selfe same reason they are not certaine but that the Church is Iudge of Controuersies which if she be then their case is lamentable who in generall deny her this authority in particular Controuersies oppose her definitions Besides among publique Conclusions defended in Oxford the yeare 1633. to the questions Whether the Church haue authority to determent Controuersies in faith And To interpret holy Scripture The answere to both is Affirmatiue 27. Since then the Visible Church of Christ our Lord is that infallible Meanes whereby the reucaled Truths of Almighty God are conueyed to our Vnderstanding it followeth that to oppose her definitions is to resist God himselfe which blessed S. Augustine plainely affirmeth when speaking of the Controuersy about Rebaptization of such as were baptized by Heretiques he saith This (r) Devnit Eccles c. 22. is neither openly nor euidently read neither by you nor by me yet if there were any wise man of whom our Sauiour had giuen testimony and that he should be consulted in this question we should make no doubt to performe what he should say least we might seeme to gainsay not him so much as Christ by whose testimony he was recommended Now Christ beareth witnes to his Church And a little after Whosoeuer refuseth to follow the practise of the Church doth resist our Sauiour himselfe who by his testimony recommends the Church I conclude therfore with this argument Whosoeuer resisteth that meanes which infallibly proposeth to vs God's Word or Reuelation commits a sinne which vnrepented excluds saluation But whosoeuer resisteth Christs visible Church doth resist that meanes which infallibly proposeth God's word or reuelation to vs Therfore whosoeuer resisteth Christs visible Church commits a sinne which vnrepented excluds saluation Now what visible Church was extant when Luther began his pretended Reformation whether it were the Roman or Protestant Church whether he and other Protestants do not oppose that visible Church which was spread ouer the world before and in Luthers time is easy to be determined and importeth euery one most seriously to ponder as a thing wheron eternall saluation dependeth And because our Aduersaries do heere most insist vpon the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall and in particular teach that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall it will be necessary to examine the truth and weight of this euasion which shall be done in the next Chapter CHAP. III. That the distinction of points fundamentall and not fundamentall is neither pertinent nor true in our present Controuersy And that the Catholique Visible Church cannot erre in either kind of the said points THIS distinction is abused by Protestants to many purposes of theirs and therfore if it be either vntrue or impertinent as they vnderstand apply it the whole edifice built theron must be ruinous and false For if you obiect their bitter and continued discords in matters of faith without any meanes of agreement they instantly tell you as Charity Mistaken plainely shewes that they differ only in points not fundamentall If you conuince them euen by their owne Confessions that the ancient Fathers taught diuers points held by the Roman Church against Protestants they reply that those Fathers may neuertheles be saued because those errors were not fundamentall If you will them to remember that Christ must alwayes haue a visible Church on earth with administration of Sacraments and succession of Pastors and that when Luther appeared there was no Church distinct from the Roman whose Communion and Doctrine Luther then forsooke and for that cause must be guilty of Schisme and Heresy they haue an Answere such as it is that the Catholique Church cannot perish yet may erre in points not fundamentall and therfore Luther and other Protestants were obliged to forsake her for such errors vnder paine of Damnation as if forsooth it were Damnable to hold an error not Fundamentall nor Damnable If you wonder how they can teach that both Catholiques and Protestants may be saued in their seuerall professions they salue this contradiction by saying that we both agree in all fundamentall points of faith which is inough for saluation And yet which is prodigiously strange they could neuer be induced to giue a Catalogue what points in particular be fundamentall but only by some generall description or by referring vs to the Apostles Creed without determining what points therein be fundamentall or not fundamentall for the matter and in what sense they be or be not such and yet concerning the meaning of diuers points contained or reduced to the Creed they differ both from vs and amōg themselues And indeed it being impossible for them to exhibite any such Catalogue the said distinction of points although it were pertinent and true cannot serue them to any purpose but still they must remaine vncertaine whether or not they disagree from one another from the ancient Fathers and from the Catholique Church in points fundamentall which is to say they haue no certainty whether they enjoy the substance of Christian Faith without which they cannot hope to be saued But of this more heerafter 2. And to the end that what shall be sayd concerning this distinction may be better vnderstood we are to obserue that there be two precepts which concerne the vertue of fayth or our obligation to belieue diuine truths The one is by Deuines called Affirmatiue wherby we are obliged to haue a positiue explicite beliefe of some chiefe Articles of Christian faith The other is termed Negatiue which strictly binds vs not to disbelieue that is not to belieue the cōtrary of any one point sufficiently represented to our vnderstācing as reuealed or spoken by Almighty God The sayd Affirmatiue Precept according to the nature of such commands inioynes some act to be performed but not at all tymes nor doth it equally bind all sorts of persons in respect of all Obiects to be belieued For obiects we grant that some are more necessary to be explicitely and seuerall belieued then other eyther because they are in themselues more great and weighty or els in regard they instruct vs in some necessary Christian duty towards God our selues or our Neyghbour For persons no doubt but some are obliged to know distinctly more then others by reason of their office vocation capacity or the like For tymes we are not obliged to be still in act of exercising acts of fayth but according as seuerall occasions permit or require The second kind of precept called Negatiue doth according to the nature of all such commands oblige vniuersally all persons in respect of all obiects at all tymes semper pro semper as Deuines speake This generall doctrine will be more cleere by examples I am not obliged to be alwayes helping my Neighbour because
You say that it is comfort inough for the Church that the Lord in merey will secure her from all capitall dangers but she may not hope to triumph ouer all sinne and errour till she be in heauen Now if it be comfort inough to be secured from all capital daÌ„gers which can arise only from errour in fundamentall points why were not your first Reformers content with Inough but would needs dismeÌ„ber the Church out of a pernicious greedines of more then Inough For this Inough which according to you is attained by not erring in points not fundameÌ„tal was enioyed before Luthers reformation vnlesse you will now against your selfe affirme that loÌ„g before Luther there was no Church free from errour in fundamental points Moreouer if as you say no Church may hope to triumph ouer all errour till she be in heauâ—n You must eyther grant that errours not fundamentall cannot yield sufficieÌ„t cause to forsake the Church or els you must affirme that all Communities may ought to be forsaken so there wil be no end of Schismes or rather indeed there can be no such thinge as Schisme because according to you all Communities are subiect to errours not fundamentall for which if they may be lawfully forsaken it followeth cleerely that it is not Schisme to forsake them Lastly since it is not lawfull to leaue the Communion of the Church for abuses in life and manners because such miseries cannot be auoided in this world of temptation and since according to your Assertion no Church may hope to triumph oner all sinne and errour You must grant that as she ought not to be left by reason of sinne so neyther by reason of errours not fundamental because both sinne errour are according to you impossible to be auoided til she be in heaueÌ„ 23. Furthermore I aske whether it be the Quantity or Number or Quality and Greatnes of doctrinall errours that may yield sufficient cause to relinquish the Churches Communion I proue that neyther Not the Quality which is supposed to be beneath the degree of points fundamentall or necessary to saluation Not the Quantity or Number For the foundation is strong inough to support all such vnnecessary additions as you terme them And if they once weighed so heauy as to ouerthrow the foundation they should grow to fundamentall errors into which your selfe teach the Church cannot fall Hay and stubble say you and such (g) pag. 153. vnprofitable stuff laid on the roofe destroies not the howse whilest the maine pillars are standing on the foundation And tell vs I pray you the precise number of errors which cannot be tolerated I know you cannot do it and therfore being vncertaine whether or no you haue cause to leaue the Church you are certainely obliged not to forsake her Our blessed Sauiour hath declared his will that we forgiue a priuate offender seauenty seauen times that is without limitation of quantity of time or quality of trespasses and why then dare you alledge his commaund that you must not pardon his Church for errors acknowledged to be not fundamentall What excuse can you faigne to your selues who for points not necessary to saluation haue been occasions causes and authors of so many mischiefes as could not but vnaucydably accompany so huge a breach in kingdomes in Common wealths in priuate persons in publique Magistrates in body in soule in goods in lise in Church in the state by Schismes by rebellions by war by famine by plague by bloudshed by all sorts of imaginable calamities vpon the whole face of the Earth wherin as in a map of Desolation the heauines of your crime appeares vnder which the world doth pant 24. To say for your excuse that you left not the Church but her errors doth not extenuate but aggrauate your sinne For by this deuise you sow seeds of endles Schismes put into the mouth of all Separatists a ready answere how to auoide the note of Schisme from your Protestant Church of England or from any other Church whatsoeuer They will I say answere as you do prompt that your Church may be forsaken if she fall into errors though they be not fundamentall And further that no Church must hope to be free from such errors which two grounds being once laid it will not be hard to infer the consequence that she may be forsaken 25. From some other words of D. Potter I like wise proue that for Errors not fundamentall the Church ought not to be forsaken There neither was sayth he nor can be (h) Pag. 5. any iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe To depart from a particular Church namely from the Church of Rome in some doctrines and practises there might be iust and necessary cause though the Church of Rome wanted nothing necessary to saluation Marke his doctrine that there can be no iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ and yet he teacheth that the Church of Christ may erre in points not fundamentall Therfore say I we cannot forsake the Roman Church for points not fundamental for then we might also forsake the Church of Christ which your selfe deny and I pray you consider whether you do not plainely contradict your selfe while in the words aboue recited you say there can be no iust cause to forsake the Catholique Church and yet that there may be necessary cause to depart from the Church of Rome since you grant that the Church of Christ may erre in points not fundamentall that the Roman Church hath erred only in such points as by and by we shall see more in particular And thus much be said to disproue their chiefest Answere that they left not the Church but her Corruptions 26. Another euasion D. Potter bringeth to auoid the imputation of Schisme and it is because they still acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a Member of the body of Christ and not cut off from the hope of saluation And this sayth he cleares vs from (i) pag. 76. the imputation of Schisme whose property it is to cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation the Church from which it separates 27. This is an Answere which perhaps you may get some one to approue if first you can put him out of his wits For what prodigious doctrines are these Those Protestants who belieue that the Church erred in points necessary to saluation and for that cause left her cannot be excused from damnable Schisme But others who belieued that she had no damnable errors did very well yea were obliged to forsake her and which is more miraculous or rather monstrous they did well to forsake her formally and precisely because they iudged that she retained all meanes necessary to saluation I say because they so iudged For the very reason for which he acquitteth himselfe and condemneth those others as Schismatiques is because he holdeth that the Church which both of them forsooke is
doe not separate themselues from the Society of the infected persons how do they free themselues depart from the common disease Do they at the same tyme remaine in the company and yet depart from those infected creatures We must then say that they separate themselues from the persons though it be by occasion of the disease Or if you say they free their owne persons frō the common disease yet so that they remaine still in the Company infected subiect to the Superiours and Gouernours thereof eating drinking keeping publique Assemblies with them you cannot but know that Luther and your Reformers the first pretended free persons from the supposed common infectiō of the Roman Church did not so for they endeauoured to force the Society whereof they were parts to be healed and reformed as they were and if it refused they did when they had forces driue them away euen their Superiours both spirituall and temporall as is notorious Or if they had not power to expell that supposed infected Community or Church of that place they departed from them corporally whome mentally they had forsaken before So that you cannot deny but Luther forsooke the external Cōmunion and Company of the Catholique Church for which as your selfe (z) Pag. 75. confesse There neyther was nor can be any iust cause no more then to depart from Christ himselfe We do therfore inferre that Luther and the rest who forsooke that visible Church which they found vpon earth were truly and properly Schismatiques 35. Moreouer it is euident that there was a diuision betweene Luther and that Church which was Visible when he arose but that Church cannot be sayed to haue deuided her selfe from him before whose tyme she was in comparison of whome she was a Whole and he but a part therefore we must say that he deuided himselfe went out of her which is to be a Schismatique or Heretique or both By this argument Optatus Meliuitanus proueth that not Caecilianus but Parmenianus was a Schismatique saying For Caecilianus went (a) Lib. 1. cont Parm. not out of Maiorinus thy Grandfather but Maiorinus from Caecilianus neyther did Caecilianus depart from the Chayre of Peter or Cyprian but Maiorinus in whose Chaire thou sittest which had no beginning before Maiorinus Since it manifestly appeareth that these things were acted in this manuer it is cleere that you are heyres both of the deliuerers vp of the holy Bible to be burned and also of Schismatiques The whole argument of this holy Father makes directly both against Luther and all those who continue the diuision which he begun and proues That going out conuinceth those who go out to be Scismatiques but not those from whome they depart That to forsake the Chaire of Peter is Schisme yea that it is Schisme to erect a Chaire which had no origen or as it were predecessour before it selfe That to continue in a diuision begun by others is to be Heires of Schismatiques and lastly that to depart from the Communion of a particuler Church as that of S. Cyprian was is sufficient to make a man incurre the guilt of Schisme and consequently that although Protestants who deny the Pope to be supreme Head of the Church do thinke by that Heresy to cleere Luther frō Schisme in disobeying the Pope Yet that will not serue to free him from Schisme as it importeth a diuision from the obedience or Communion of the particular Bishop Diocesse Church Countrey where he liued 36. But it is not the heresy of Protestants or any other Sectaries that can depriue S. Peter and his Successours of the authority which Christ our Lord conferred vpon them ouer his whole militant Church which is a point confessed by learned Protestants to be of great Antiquity and for which the iudgement of diuers most ancient holy Fathers is reproued by them as may be seen at large in Brereley (b) Tract 1. Sect. 3. subd 10. exactly citing the places of such chiefe Protestants And we must say with S. Cyprian Heresies (c) Epist. 55. haue sprung and Schismes been bred from no other cause then for that the Priest of God is not obeyed nor one Priest and Iudge is cōsidered to be for the time in the Church of God Which words do plainely condemne Luther whether he will vnderstand them as spoken of the Vniuersall or of euery particular Church For he withdrew himselfe both from the obedience of the Pope and of all particular Bishops and Churches And no lesse cleere is the sayd Optatus Meliuitanus saying Thou caust not deny (d) Lib 2. cont Parm. but that thou knowest that in the Citty of Rome there was first an Episcopall Chaire placed for Peter wherin Peter the head of all the Apost es sat wherof also he was called Cephas in which one Chaire Vnity was to be kept by all least the other Apostles might attribute to themselues ech one his particular Chaire and that he should be a Schismatique and sinner who against that one single Chaire should erect another Many other Authorities of Fathers might be alledged to this purpose which I omit my intention being not to handle particular controuersies 37. Now the arguments which hitherto I haue brought proue that Luther and his followers were Schismatiques without examining for as much as belonges to this point whether or no the Church can erre in any one thing great or small because it is vniuersally true that there can be no iust cause to forsake the Communion of the Visible Church of Christ according to S. Augustine saying It is not possible (e) Ep. 48. that any may haue iust cause to separate their Communion from the Communion of the whole world and call themselues the Church of Christ as if they had separated themselues from the Communion of all Nations vpon iust cause But since indeed the Church cannot erre in any one point of doctrine nor can approue any corruption in manners they cannot with any colour auoid the iust imputation of eminent Schisme according to the verdict of the same holy Father in these words The most manifest (f) De Bapt. Lib. 5. ç. 1. sacriledge of Schisme is eminent when there was no cause of separation 38. Lastly I proue that Protestants cannot auoid the note of Schisme at least by reason of their mutuall separation from one another For most certaine it is that there is very great difference for the outward face of a Church and profession of a different fayth between the Lutherans the rigid Caluinists and the Protestants of England So that if Luther were in the right those other Protestants who inuented Doctrines far different from his and diuided themselues from him must be reputed Schismatiques the like argument may proportionably be applied to their further diuisions and subdiuisions Which reason I yet vrge more strongly out of D Potter (g) pag. 20. who affirmes that to him to such as are conuicted in conscience of the
cont Parm. went not out of Maiorinus thy Grand-Father but Maiorinus from Caecilianus neither did Caecilianus depart from the Chaire of Peter or Cyprian but Maiorinus in whose Chaire thou sittest which before Maiorinus Luther had no beginning Seing it is euident that these things passed in this manner that for example Luther departed from the Church and not the Church from Luther it is cleere that you be HEIRES both of the giuers vp of the Bible to be burned and of SCHISMATIQVES And the Regall Power or example of Henry the Eight could not excuse his Subiects from Schisme according to what we haue heard out of S. Chrysostome saying Nothing doth so much prouoke (d) Hom 11. In ep st ad Epâ—â—s the wrath of Almighty God as that the Church should be diuided Although we should do innumerable good deeds if we diuide the full Ecclesiasticall Congregation we shall be punished no lesse then they who did rend his naturall Body for that was done to the gaine of the whole world though not with that intention but this hath no good in it at all but that the greatest hurt riseth from it These things are spoken not only to those who be are office but to such also as are gouerned by them Behold therfore how liable both Subiects and Superiours are to the sinne of Schisme if they breake the vnity of God's Church The words of S. Paul can in no occasion be verified more then in this of which we speake They who do such things (e) Rom. 1.32 are worthy of death and not only they that do them but they also that consent with the doers In things which are indifferent of their owne nature Custome may be occasion that some act not well begun may in time come to be lawfully coÌ„tinued But no length of Time no Quality of Persons no Circumstance of Necessity can legitimate actions which are of their owne mature vnlawfull and therfore diuision from Christs my sticall Body being of the number of those actions which Deuines teach to be intrinsece malas euill of their owne nature and essence no difference of Persons or Time can euer make it lawfull D. Potter sayth There neither was nor can be any cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe And who dares say that it is not damnable to continue a Separation from Christ Prescription cannot in conscience runne when the first beginner and his Successours are conscious that the thing to be prescribed for example goods or lands were vniustly possessed at the first Christians are not like strayes that after a certaine time of wandring from their right home fall from their owner to the Lord of the Soile but as long as they retaine the indeleble Character of Baptisme and liue vpon earth they are obliged to acknowledge subiection to God's Church Human Lawes may come to nothing by discontinuance of Time but the Law of God commaunding vs to conserue Vnity in his Church doth still remaine The continued disobedience of Children cannot depriue Parents of their paternall right nor can the Grand-child be vndutifull to his Grand Father because his Father was vnnaturall to his owne Parent The longer God's Church is disobeyed the profession of her Doctrine denyed her Sacraments neglected her Liturgy condemned her Vnity violated the more grieuous the fault growes to be as the longer a man with-holds a due debt or retaines his Neighbours goods the greater iniustice he commits Constancy in euill doth not extenuate but aggrauate the same which by extension of Time receiueth increase of strength addition of greater malice If these mens conceits were true the Church might come to be wholy diuided by wicked Schismes and yet after some space of time none could be accused of Schisme nor be obliged to returne to the visible Church of Christ and so there should remaine no One true visible Church Let therfore these men who pretend to honour reuerence belieue the Doctrine and practise of the visible Church and to condemne their forefathers who fosooke her and say they would not haue done so if they had liued in the dayes of their Fathers and yet follow their example in remaining diuided from her Communion consider how truly these words of our Sauiour fall vpon them Wo be to you because you build (f) Matt. 23. â— 29. c. the Prophets sepulchers and garnish the monuments of iust men and say If we had been in our Fathers dayes we had not been their fellowes in the bloud of the Prophets Therfore you are a testimony to your owne selues that you are the sonnes of them that killed the Prophets and fill vp the measure of your Fathers 46. And thus hauing demonstrated that Luther his Associates and all that continue in the Schisme by them begunne are guilty of Schisme by departing from the visible true Church of Christ it remaineth that we examine what in particular was that Visible true Church from which they departed that so they may know to what Church in particular they ought to returne and then we shall haue performed what was proposed to be handled in the fifth Point 47. That the Roman Church I speake not for the present of the particular Diocesse of Rome 5 Point but of all visible Churches dispersed throughout the whole world agreeing in faith with the Chaire of Peter Luther the rest departed froÌ„ the Roman Church whether that Sea were supposed to be in the Citty of Rome or in any other place That I say the Church of Rome in this sense was the visible Catholique Church out of which Luther departed is proued by your owne Confession who assigne for notes of the Church the true Preaching of Gods Church and due Administration of Sacraments both which for the substance you cannot deny to the Roman Church since you confesse that she waÌ„ted nothing fundamentall or necessary to saluation and for that very cause you thinke to cleare your selfe from Schisme whose property as you say is to cut off from the (g) pag. 78. Body of Christ and the Hope of Saluation the Church from which it separates Now that Luther and his fellowes were borne and baptized in the Roman Church and that she was the Church out of which they departed is notoriously knowne And therefore you cannot cut her off from the Body of Christ Hope of Saluation vnles you will acknowledge your selfe to deserue the iust imputatioÌ„ of Schisme Neyther can you deny her to be truly Catholique by reason of pretended corruptions not fundamentall For your selfe auouch and endeauour to proue that the true Catholique Church may erre in such points Moreouer I hope you will not so much as go about to proue that when Luther rose there was any other true visible Church disagreeing from the Roman agreeing with Protestants in their particular doctrines and you cannot deny but that England in those dayes agreed with Rome and other Nations with England
you proue by the Authority of Nilus a Schismatique an Heretique and a professed enemy of the Church of Rome and of Protestants also vnles they haue a mind to belieue that the holy Ghost proceeds not from the Sonne And how can Nilus affirme as he doth that the Pope refuseth to haue the groundes of that dissension fayrely heard and discussed in a generall Councell For vnder Vrbanus the second a Councell was held at Barium in Apulia where the Graecian Bishops being present were conuicted of errour in denying God the holy Ghost to proceed from God the Sonne S. Anselme (l) Anselm lib. de protes Spirit sanct our Primate of Canterbury being the chiefe disputant in the behalfe of the Latins Whereupon the Graecian Emperour that then ruled Alexius Comnenus became Catholicke and caused the Graecian Bishops to hold Communion with the Roman Church so long as he liued Baronîus tom 12. An. 1118. as Baronius sheweth And greater cause I haue to wonder that you would now reuiue this Cauill of Nilus For to say nothing of the Councell of Lyons in France vnder Gregory the tenth Baron ad an 1274. where the Patriarke of Constantinople was present and other Hierarchs of Greece to the number of 40. besides innumerable Bishops and Prelates of the Latins being more then a thousand in all some Kings being there in person and all by their Embassadors namely Michael Paleologus and Andronicus his Sonne Emperours of the East in whose name their Embassadours recanted abiured all errors against the Roman Church namely that about the Holy Ghost to pretermit I say this instance who doth not know that in the generall Councell at Florence the matter was debated vnder Eugenius the fourth where the Graecians with their Emperour and their Patriarch and the Legates of three other Patriarches and the Armenians and the Deputyes of the Ethiopians were present and a perfect concord was then made from which the Greekes departing afterward were subdued and made slaues to the Turke And that they might see the cause of their destruction to be pertinacity in their Errour about the Holy Ghost vpon the very feast of Pentecost as Bellarmine proueth the Citty of Constantinople was taken their Emperour killed Lib. 2. de Christo cap. 30. and their Empyre extinguished And it is well knowne that the true cause of their dissension whereupon a separation at last ensued was the Controuersy between Ignatius lawfull Patriarch of Constantinople whom the Pope still kept in his Communion and Photius an ambitious Intruder into the Patriarchate by strength of the Imperiall Power Which Schisme hath enlarged it selfe by addition of the heresy about the procession of the holy Ghost For want of better matter you bring heere that old Obiection about the Councels of Constance and Basil defining that the Councell is aboue the Pope The Answere whereof you may read in Bellarmine that (m) De Câ— lib. 2. c. â—â— the Popes who were deposed were in time of Schisme when it was not knowne who was the true Pope in which case the Church hath power to prouide herselfe of an vndoubted Pastour To say nothing that two of those Popes voluntarily renounced their pretence As for the decree of the Councell of Constance that all ought to obey a Generall Councell he answeres that either it is meant for time of Schisme or if it be vniuersall that the Councell could not make any such definition of fayth because it was neuer confirmed by the Pope for as much as concernes that point And the Councell of Basill was in that particular expresly repealed by diuers Popes and the whole Church receiued Eugenius as true Pope who yet was deposed by that Councell To disproue the Popes infallibility you cite Victoria saying Giue me (n) Relect. 4. de Potest Papae Conc. prop. 12. ad fin Clements Linus Siluesters and I will leaue all to their pleasure But to speake no worse of latter Popes they are much inferiour to those ancient Ones But you alleage this Author according to your wonted manner that is very vnfaithfully For he in that place speakes only of Dispensations in Lawes the facility and frequency wherof Victoria dislikes in these latter times Which being wholy matter of Fact doth nothing preiudice the Popes Infallibility for points of Fayth 30. To proue that there is nothing but vncertainty in prouing the Popes infallibility (o) Pag. 176. you alledge some place out of Bellarmine but with so great confusion and fraude that they serue only to proue the certainty of your ill dealing Bellarmine distinguishes two Questions The one whether S. Peter had any Successor in being head of the Church and this he sayth is most certayne and De iure diuino or by diuine institution The other whether it be de iure diuino or of diuine institution that S. Peters Successour must be the particular Bishop of Rome and this he sayth is not so certayne though it be true because if S. Peter had placed his Sea in some other Citty or els had chosen no particular Citty at all yet his Successour had been iure diuino Head of the Church howbeyt in that case he had not beene the particular Bishop of Rome Neuertheles because S. Peter did in fact choose Rome it is vpon that supposall a matter of fayth that the Bishop of Rome S. Peters Successour is all one As for example by the Law of God all lawfull Superiours are to be obeyed and therefore though it be not of diuine institutioÌ„ that this or that man should be superiour yet supposing that in fact he be Superiour the general diuine Law pitches fastens vpoÌ„ him obligeth vs to obey him in particular This being presupposed let vs now heare what you alledge out of (q) De Rom. Pont. lib. 2. cap. 4. §. Restant Bellarmine S. Peter sate many yeares Bisshop of Rome there he died You chaÌ„ge the very QuestioÌ„ Bellarmines words in the Title of the Chapter are Petrum Romae vsque admortem Episcopum fuisse That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome till his death And he explaines his meaning to be That S. Peter was Bishop of Rome and that he kept that Bishoprick till his death which is a different thing from what you say That S. Peter sate many yeares Bishop of Rome and there he died For he might haue been many yeares Bishop of Rome and also died at Rome and yet not died Bishop of Rome as one may be Bishop of London for some yeares and dy at London yet not dye Bishop of London Now Bellarmine sayth that S. Peter died Bishop of Rome which indeed was the maine point and proues that the Bishop of Rome is S. Peters successour wheras to dye at Rome is accidentall to his being Bishop of Rome and in fact diuers Bishops of Rome died in France and els where But let vs goe on You say that the first reason by which Bellarmine proues that S.
fayth Or that the Church of Rome as it signifies that particuler Church or diocesse is not all one with the vniuersall Church Or that the Pope as a priuate Doctour may erre With many other such points as will easily appeare in their proper places It wil also be necessary for him not to put certaine Doctrines vpon vs from which he knowes we disclaime as much as himselfe 10. I must in like manner intreate him not to recite my reasons discourses by halfes but to set theÌ„ down faythfully entirely for as much as in very deed concernes the whole substance of the thing in questioÌ„ because the want somtime of one word may chance to make voyd or lessen the force of the whole argumeÌ„t And I am the more solicitous about giuing this particuler caueat because I find how ill he hath complied with the promise which he made in his Preface to the Reader not to omit without answere any one thing of moment in all the discourse of Charity Mistaken Neither will this course be a cause that his Reioynder grow too large but it will be occasion of breuity to him and free me also from the paines of setting downe all the words which he omits and himself of demonstrating that what he omitted was not materiall Nay I will assure him that if he keep himselfe to the point of euery difficulty and not weary the Reader and ouercharge his margent with vnnecessary quotations of Authors in Greeke and Latin and sometime also in Italian and French togeather with prouerbs sentences of Poets and such grammaticall stuffe nor affect to cite a multitude of our Catholique Schoole deuines to no purpose at all his Booke will not exceed a competent size nor will any man in reason be offended with that length which is regulated by necessity Agayne before he come to set downe his answere or propose his Arguments let him consider very wel what may be replied and whether his owne obiections may not be retorted against himselfe as the Reader will perceiue to haue hapned often to his disaduantage in my Reply against him But especially I expect and Truth it selfe exacts at his hand that he speake cleerly and distinctly and not seeke to walke in darknes so to delude and deceiue his Reader now saying and then denying and alwayes speaking with such ambiguity as that his greatest care may seeme to consist in a certaine art to find a shift as his occasions might chance eyther now or heereafter to require and as he might fall out to be vrged by diuernty of seuerall arguments And to the end it may appeare that I deale plainely as I would haue him also do I desire that he declare himselfe concerning these points 11. First whether our Sauiour Christ haue not alwayes had and be not euer to haue a visible true Church on earth whether the contrary doctrine be not a damnable Heresy 12. Secondly what visible Church there was before Luther disagreeing from the Roman Church and agreeing with the pretended Church of Protestants 13. Thirdly Since he will be forced to grant that there caÌ„ be assigned no visible true Church of Christ distinct from the Church of Rome and such Churches as agreed with her when Luther first appeared whether it do not follow that she hath not erred fundamentally because euery such errour destroies the nature and being of the Church and so our Sauiour Christ should haue had no visible Church on earth 14. Fourthly if the Roman Church did not fall into any fundamentall errour let him tell vs how it can be damnable to liue in her Communion or to maintaine errours which are knowne confessed not to be fundamentall or damnable 15. Fiftly if her Errours were not damnable nor did exclude saluation how can they be excused from Schisme who forsooke her Communion vpon pretence of errours which were not damnable 16. Sixtly if D. Potter haue a mind to say that her Errours are damnable or fundamentall let him do vs so much charity as to tell vs in particuler what those fundamentall errours be But he must still remember and my selfe must be excused for repeating it that if he say the Roman Church eâ—â—ed fundamentally he will not be able to shew that Christ our Lord had any visible Church on earth when Luther appeared let him tel vs how Protestants had or can haue any Church which was vniuersall and extended herselfe to all ages if once he grant that the Roman Church ceased to be the true Church of Christ and consequenly how they can hope for Saluation if they deny it to vs. 17. Seauenthly whether any one Errour maintayned against any one Truth though neuer so small in it selfe yet sufficiently propounded as testified or reuealed by almighty God do not destroy the Nature and Vnity of Faith or at least is not a grieuous offence excluding Saluation 18. Eightly if this be so how can Lutherans Caluinists Zuinglians and all the rest of disagreeing ProtestaÌ„ts hope for saluation since it is manifest that some of them must needs erre against some such truth as is testified by almighty God either fundamentall or at least not fundamentall 19. Ninthly we constantly vrge and require to haue a particuler Catalogue of such points as he calls fundamentall A catalogue I say in particuler and not only some generall definition or description wherein Protestants may perhaps agree though we see that they differ when they come to assigne what points in particuler be fundamentall and yet vpon such a particuler Catalogue much depends as for example in particuler whether or no a maÌ„ do not erre in some point fundamentall or necessary to saluation and whether or no Lutherans Caluinists and the rest do disagree in fundamentals which if they do the same Heauen cannot receiue them all 20. Tenthly and lastly I desire that in answering to these points he would let vs know distinctly what is the doctrine of the Protâ—stant English Church concerning them and what he vtters only as his owne priuate opinion 21. These are the questions which for the present I find it fit and necessary for me to aske of D. Potter or any other who will defend his cause or impugne ours And it will be in vaine to speake vainely and to tell me that a Foole may aske more questions in an houre then a wiseman can answere in a yeare with such idle Prouerbs as that For I aske but such questions as for which he giues occasion in his Booke and where he declares not himselfe but after so ambiguous and confused a manner as that Truth it selfe can scarce tell how to conuince him so but that with ignorant and ill-iudging men he will seeme to haue somewhat left to say for himselfe though Papists as he calls them and Puritans should presse him contrary wayes at the same tyme and these questions concerne things also of high importance as wherevpon the knowledge of Gods Church true Religion and consequently Saluation of
of eternall damnation to be belieued and obeyed in some things wherin confessedly she is endewed with infallibility I cannot in wisdome suspect her credit in matters of lesse moment For who would trust another in matters of highest consequence and be afraid to rely on him in things of lesse moment Thirdly since as I said we are vndoubtedly obliged not to forsake her in the chiefest or fundamentall points and that there is no Rule to know precisely what and how many those fundamentall points be I cannot without hazard of my soule leaue her in any one point lest perhaps that point or points wherin I forsake her proue indeed to be fundamentall and necessary to saluation Fourthly that visible Church which can not erre in points fundamentall doth without distinction propound all her Definitions concerning matters of faith to be belieued vnder Anathema's or Curses esteeming all those who resist to be deseruedly cast out of her Communion and holding it as a point necessary to saluation that we belieue she cannot erre wherin if she speake true then to deny any one point in particuler which she defineth or to affirme in generall that she may erre puts a man into state of damnation Wheras to belieue her in such points as are not necessary to saluation can not endanger saluation as likewise to remaine in her Communion can bring no great harme because she cannot maintaine any damnable error or practise but to be deuided frō her she being Christs Catholique Church is most certainely damnable Fifthly the true Church being in lawfull and certaine possession of Superiority and Power to command require Obedience from all Christians in some things I cannot without grieuous sinne withdraw my obedience in any one vnles I euidently know that the thing commanded comes not within the compasse of those things to which her Power extendeth And who can better informe me how far God's Church can proceed then God's Church herselfe Or to what Doctor can the Children and Schoollers with greater reason and more security fly for direction then to the Mother and appointed Teacher of all Christians In following her I shall sooner be excused then in cleauing to any particuler Sect or Person teaching or applying Scriptures against her doctrine or interpretation Sixtly the fearefull examples of innumerable persons who forsaking the Church vpon pretence of her errours haue failed euen in fundamentall points and suffered ship wracke of their Saluation ought to deter all Christians from opposing her in any one doctrine or practise as to omit other both ancient and moderne heresies we see that diuers chiefe Protestants pretending to reforme the corruptions of the Church are come to affirme that for many Ages she erred to death and wholy perished which D. Potter cannot deny to be a fundamentall Errour against that Article of our Creed I belieue the Catholike Church as he affirmeth it of the Donatists because they confined the vniuersall Church within Afirica or some other small tract of soile Least therefore I may fall into some fundamentall errour it is most safe for me to belieue al the Decrees of that Church which cānot erre fundamentally especially if we add That according to the Doctrine of Catholique Deuines one errour in fayth whether it be for the matter if selfe great or small destroyes fayth as is hewed in Charity Mistaken and cōsequently to accuse the Church of any one Errour is to affirme that the lost all fayth and erred damnably which very saying is damnable because at leaues Christ no visible Church on earth 21. To all these arguments I add this demōstration D. Potter teacheth that there neyther was (c) pag. 75. nor can be any iust cause to depart frō the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe But if the Church of Christ can erre in some points of fayth men not only may but must forsake her in those vnles D. Potter will haue them to belieue one thing and professe another and if such errours and corruptions should fall out to be about the Churches Liturgy publique Seruice administration of Sacraments the like they who perceiue such errours must of necessity leaue her externall Cōmunion And therefore if once we grant the Church may erre it followeth that men may and ought to forsake her which is against D. Potters owne wordes or else they are inexcusable who left the Communion of the Roman Church vnder pretence of Errors which they grant not to be fundamentall And if D. Potter thinke good to answere this argument he must remember his owne doctrine to be that euen the Catholique Church may erre in points not fundamentall 22. An other argument for the vniuersall infallibility of the Church I take out of D. Potters owne words If sayth he we (d) pag. 97. did not dissent in some opinions from the present Roman Church we could not agree with the Church truly Catholique These words cannot be true vnlesse he presuppose that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall For if she may erre in such points the Roman Church which he affirmeth to erre only in points not fundamentall may agree with the Church truly Catholique if she likewise may erre in points not fundamentall Therfore either he must acknowledge a plaine contradiction in his owne words or else must grant that the Church truly Catholique cannot erre in points not fundamentall which is what we intended to proue 23. If Words cannot perswade you that in all Controuersies you must rely vpon the infallibility of the Church at least yield your assent to Deeds Hither to I haue produced Arguments drawne as it were ex naturâ rei from the Wisdome and Goodnes of God who cannot faile to haue left some infallible meanes to determine Controuersies which as we haue proued can be no other except a Visible Church infallible in all her Definitions But because both Catholiques and Protestants receiue holy Scripture we may thence also proue the infallibility of the Church in all matters which concerne Faith and Religion Our Sauiour speaketh cleerely The gates of Hell (e) Matt. 16. shall not preuaile against her And I will aske my (f) Ioan. 14. Father and he will giue you another Paraclete that he may abide with you for euer the Spirit of truth And But when he the Spirit of (g) Ioan. 16. truth cometh he shall teach you all truth The Apostle sayth that the Church is the Pillar and ground (h) 1. Tim. cap. 3. of Truth And He gaue some Apostles and some Prophets and other some Euangelists and other some Pastors and Doctors to the consummation of the Saints vnto the worke of the Ministery vnto the edifying of the body of Christ vntill we meete all into the vnity of faith and knowledge of the Sonne of God into a perfect man into the measure of the age of the fulnes of Christ that now we be not Children wauering and carried about with euery wind of dectrine
for the same reason one cannot auoide the company of a sinner and at the same time be really present with that man who is a sinner And this is our case and in this our Aduersaries are egregiously and many of them affectedly mistaken For one may in some points belieue as the Church belieueth and disagree from her in other One may loue the truth which she holds and detest her pretended corruptions But it is impossible that a man should really separate himselfe from her externall Communion as she is corrupted and be really within the same externall Communion as she is sound because she is the selfe same Church which is supposed to be sound in some things and to erre in others Now our question for the present doth concerne only this point of externall Communion because Schisme as it is distinguâ—â—hed from Heresy is committed when one diuides himselfe from the Externall Communion of that Church with which he agrees in Fayth Wheras Heresy doth necessarily imply a difference in matter of Fayth and beliefe and therfore to say that they left not the visible Church but her errors can only excuse them from Heresy which shall be tried in the next Chapter but not from Schisme as long as they are really druided from the Externall Communion of the selfe same visible Church which notwithstanding those errors wherin they do in iudgment dissent from her doth still remaine the true Catholique Church of Christ and therfore while they forsake the corrupted Church they forsake the Catholique Church Thus then it remaineth cleere that their chiefest Answere changeth the very state of the Question confoundeth internall acts of the Vnderstanding with externall Deeds doth not distinguish between Schisme and Heresy and leaues this demonstrated against them That they diuided themselues from the Communion of the visible Catholique Church because they conceaued that she needed Reformation But whether this pretence of Reformation will acquit them of Schisme I refer to the vnpartiall Iudges heretofore (n) Num. 8. alledged as to S. Irenaeus who plainely sayth They cannot make any so important REFORMATION as the Euill of the Schisme is pernicious To S. Denis of Alexandria saying Certainely all things should be indured rather then to consent to the diuision of the Church of God those Martyrs being no lesse glorious that expose themselues to hinder the dismembring of the Church then those that suffer rather then they will offer sacrifice to Idols To S. Augustine who tels vs That not to heare the Church is a more grieuous thing then if he were striken with the sword consumed with flames exposed to wild beasts And to conclude all in few wordes he giueth this generall prescription There is no iust necessity to diuide Vnity And D. Potter may remember his owne words There neither was (s) pag. 75. nor can be any iust cause to depart from the Church of Christ no more then from Christ himselfe But I haue shewed that Luther and the rest departed from the Church of Christ if Christ had any Church vpon earth Therfore there could be no iust cause of Reformation or what else soeuer to do as they did and therfore they must be contented to be held for Schismatiques 18 Moreouer I demaund whether those corruptions which moued them to forsake the Communion of the visible Church were in manners or doctrine Corruption in manners yields no sufficient cause to leaue the Church otherwise men must go not onely out of the Church but out of the world as the Apostle (t) 1. Cor. 5.10 sayth Our blessed Sauiour foretold that there would be in the Church tares with choice corne sinners with iust men If then Protestants waxe zealous with the Seruants to plucke vp the weeds let them first harken to the wisdome of the Maister Let both grow vp And they ought to imitate them who as S. Augustine saith tolerate for the (u) Ep. 162. good of Vnity that which they detest for the good of equity And to whome the more frequent and foule such scandals are by so much the more is the merit of their perseuerance in the Communion of the Church and the Martyrdome of their patience as the same Saint cals it If they were offended with the life of some Ecclesiasticall persons must they therefore deny obedience to their Pastours and finally breake with Gods Church The Pastour of Pastours teacheth vs another lesson Vpon the Chaire of Moyses (w) Mat. 33. haue sitten the Scribes Pharises All thinges therefore whatsoeuer they shall say to you obserue yee doe yee but according to their workes do yee not Must people except agaynst lawes and reuolt from Magistrates because some are negligent or corrupt in the execution of the same lawes and performance of their office If they intended Reformation of manners they vsed a strange meanes for the achieuing of such an end by denying the necessity of Confession laughing at austerity of pennance condemning the vowes of Chastity pouerty obedience breaking fasts c. And no lesse vnfit were the Men then the Meanes I loue not recrimination But it is well knowne to how great crimes Luther Caluin Zwinglius Beza and other of the prime Reformers were notorioussy obnoxious as might be easily demonstrated by the only transcribing of what others haue deliuered vpon that subiect whereby it would appeare that they were very farre from being any such Apostolicall men as God is wont to vse in so great a worke And whereas they were wont especially in the beginning of their reuolt maliciously to exaggerate the faults of some Clergy men Erasmus said well Epist ad fratres inferioris Germaniae Let the riot lust ambition auarice of Priests and whatsoeuer other crimes be gathered together Heresy alone doth exceed all this filthy lake of vices Besides nothing at all was omitted by the sacred Councell of Trent which might tend to reformation of manners And finally the vices of others are not hurtfull to any but such as imitate and consent to them according to the saying of S. Augustine We conserue (y) De vnit Eccles c. 2â— innocency not by knowing the ill deeds of men but by not yielding consent to such as we know and by not iudging rashly of such faults as we know not If you answere that not corruption in manners but the approbation of them doth yield sufficient cause to leaue the Church I reply with S. Augustine That the Church doth as the pretended Reformers ought to haue done tolerate or beare with scandals and corruptions but neither doth nor can approue them The Church sayth he being placed (z) Ep. 116. betwixt much chaffe and cockle doth beare with many things but doth not approue nor dissemble nor act those things which are against fayth and good life But because to approue corruption in manners as lawfull were an errour against Fayth it belongs to corruption in doctrine which was the second part of my demaund 19. Now then that
corruptions in doctrine I still speake vpon the vntrue supposition of our Aduersaries could not affoard any sufficieÌ„t cause or colourable necessity to depart from that visible Church which was extant when Luther rose I demonstrate out of D. Potters own confession that the Catholique Church neither hath nor can erre in points fundamentall as we shewed out of his owne expresse words which he also of set purpose deliuereth in diuers other places and all they are obliged to maintaine the same who teach that Christ had alwayes a visible Church vpon earth because any one fundamentall error ouerthrowes the being of a true Church Now as Schoolemen speake it is implicatio in terminis a contradiction so plaine that one word destroyeth the other as if one should say a liuing dead man to affirme that the Church doth not erre in points necessary to saluation or damnably yet that it is damnable to remaine in her Communion because she teacheth errors which are confessed not to be damnable For if the error be not damnable nor against any fundamentall Article of Fayth the beliefe therof cannot be damnable But D. Potter teacheth that the Catholique Church cannot and that the Roman Church hath not erred against any fundamentall Article of Fayth Therfore it cannot be damnable to remaine in her Communion and so the pretended corruptions in her doctrine could not induce any obligation to depart from her Communion nor could excuse them from Schisme who vpon preteÌ„ce of necessity in point of conscience forsooke her And D. Potter will neuer be able to salue a manifest contradiction in these his words To depart from the Church (a) Pag. 75. of Rome in some Doctrine and practises there might be necessary cause though she wanted nothing necessary to saluation For if notwithstanding these doctrines and practises she wanted nothing necessary to saluation how could it be necessary to saluation to forsake her And therfore we must still coÌ„ clude that to forsake her was properly an act of Schisme 20. From the selfe same ground of the infallibility of the Church in all fundamentall points I argue after this manner The visible Church cannot be forsaken without damnation vpon pretence that it is damnable to remaine in her Communion by reason of corruption in doctrine as long as for the truth of her Fayth and beliefe she performeth the duty which she oweth to God and her Neighbour As long as she performeth what our Sauiour exacts at her hands as long as she doth as much as lies in her power to do But euen according to D Potters Assertions the Church performeth all these things as long as she erreth not in points fundamentall although she were supposed to erre in other points not fundamentall Therefore the Communion of the Visible Church cannot be forsaken without damnatioÌ„ vpon pretence that it is damnable to remaine in her Communion by reason of corruption in doctrine The Maior or first Proposition of it selfe is euident The Minor or second Proposition doth necessarily fellow out of D. Potters owne doctrine aboue rehearsed That the promises of our Lord made to his Church for his assistance are to be (b) Pag. 151. extended only to points of Fayth or fundamentall Let me note heer by the way that by his Or he seemes to exclude from Fayth all points which are not fundamentall so we may deny innumerable Texts of Scripture That It is (c) pag. 155. comfort inough for the Church that the Lord in mercy will secure her from all capitall dangers c. but she may not hope to triumph ouer all sinne and error till she be in heauen For it is euident that the Church for as much as concernes the truth of her doctrines and beliefe owes no more duty to God and her Neighbour neither doth our Sauiour exact more at her hands nor is it in her power to do more then God doth assist her to doe which assistaÌ„ce is promised only for points fundamentall and consequently as long as she teacheth no fundamentall error her CoÌ„munion cannot without damnation be forsakeÌ„ And we may fitly apply against D. Potter a Concionatory declamation which he makes against vs where he sayth (d) pag. 221. May the Church of after Ages make the narrow way to heauen narrowier then our Sauiour left it c since he himselfe obligeth men vnder paine of damnation to forsake the Church by reason of errours against which our Sauiour thought it needles to promise his assistance and for which he neither denieth his grace in this life or glory in the next Will D. Potter oblige the Church to do more then she may euen hope for or to performe on earth that which is proper to heauen alone 21. And as from your owne doctrine concerning the infallibility of the Church in fundamentall points we haue proued that it was a grieuous sinne to forsake her so doe we take a strong argument from the fallibility of any who dare pretend to reforme the Church which any man in his wits will belieue to be indued with at last as much infallibility as priuate men can challenge and D. Potter expressely affirmeth that Christs promises of his assistance are not intended (e) Pag. 1â—1 to any particuler persons or Churches and therefore to leaue the Church by reason of errours was at the best hand but to flit from one erring company to another without any new hope of triumphing ouer errours and without necessity or vtility to forsake that Communion of which S. Augustine sayth There is (f) Ep. conâ— Parmen lth 2. çap. 11. no iust necessity to diuide Vnity Which will appeare to be much more euident if we coÌ„sider that though the Church had maintained some false doctrines yet to leaue her Communion to remedy the old were but to add a new increase of errors arising from the innumerable disagreements of Sectaries which must needs bring with it a mighty masse of falshoods because the truth is but one indiuisible And this reason is yet stronger if we still remember that euen according to D. Potter the visible Church hath a blessing not to erre in points fundamentall in which any priuate Reformer may faile and therfore they could not pretend any necessity to forsake that Church out of whose Communion they were exposed to danger of falling into many more and euen into damnable errors Remember I pray you what your selfe affirmes Pag. 69. where speaking of our Church and yours you say All the difference is from the weeds which remaine there and beere are taken away Yet neither heere perfectly nor euery where alike Behold a faire coÌ„fession of corruptioÌ„s still remayning in your Church which you can only excuse by saying they are not fundameÌ„tal as like wise those in the Roman Church are confessed to be not fundamentall What man of iudgment wil be a Protestant since that Church is confessedly a corrupt One 22. I still proceed to impugne you expresly vpon your grounds
not cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation whereas those other Zealots deny her to be a member of Christs Body or capable of saluation wherin alone they disagree from D. Potter for in the effect of separation they agree only they do it vpon a different motiue or reason Were it not a strang excuse if a man would thinke to cloake his rebellion by alledging that he held the person against whom he rebelled to be his lawfull Soueraygne And D. Potter thinkes himselfe free from Schisme because he forsooke the Church of Rome but yet so as that stil he held her to be the true Church and to haue all necessary meanes to Saluation But I will no further vrge this most solemne foppery and doe much more willingly put all Catholiques in mind what an vnspeakeable comfort it is that out Aduersaries are forced to confesse that they cannot cleere themselues from Schisme otherwise then by acknowledging that they do not nor cannot cut off from the Hope of saluation our Church Which is as much as if they should in plaine termes say They must be damned vnlesse we may be saued Moreouer this euasion doth indeed condemne your zealous Brethren of Heresy for denying the Churches perpetuity but doth not cleere your selfe from Schisme which consists in being diuided from that true Church with which a man agreeth in all points of fayth as you must professe your selfe to agree with the Church of Rome in all fundamentall Articles For other wise you should cut her off from the hope of saluation and so condemne your selfe of Schisme And lastly euen according to the your owne definition of Schisme you cannot cleere your selfe from that crime vnlesse you be content to acknowledge a manifest contradiction in your owne Assertions For if you do not cut vs off from the Body of Christ and the Hope of saluation how come you to say in another place that you iudge a reconciliation with vs to be (k) pag. 20. damnable That to depart from the Church of Rome there might be iust and necessary (l) pag. 75. cause That they that haue the vnderstanding and meanes to discouer their error and neglect to vse them (m) pag. 79. we dare not flatter them say you with so easy a censure of hope of saluation If then it be as you say a property of Schisme to cut off from the hope of saluation the Church from which it separates how wil you cleere your selfe from Schisme who dare not flatter vs with so easy a censure and who affirme that a reconciliation with vs is damnable But the truth is there is no constancy in your Assertions by reason of difficulties which presse you on all sides For you are loath to affirme cleerly that we may be saued least such a grant might be occasion as in all reason it ought to be of the conuersion of Protestants to the Roman Church And on the other side if you affirme that our Church erred in points fundamentall or necessary to saluation you know not how nor where nor amōg what Company of men to find a perpetuall visible Church of Christ before Luther And the fore your best shift is to say and vnsay as your occasions command I do not examine your Assertion that it is the property of Schisme to cut of from the Body of Christ and the hope of saluation the Church from which it separates wherin you are mightily mistaken as appeares by your owne example of the Donatists who were most formall and proper Heretiques and not Schismatiques as Schisme is a vice distinct from Heresy Besides although the Donatists Luciferians whom you also alledg had byn meere Schismatiques yet it were against all good Logick from a particular to infer a generall Rule to determine what is the property of Schisme 28. A third deuise I find in D. Potier to cleere his Brethren from Schisme There is sayth he great difference betweene (n) Pag. 75. a Schisme from them and a Reformation of our selues 29. This I confesse is a quaint subtility by which all Schisme and Sinne may be as well excused For what diuell incarnate could meerly pretend a separation and not rather some other motiue of vertue truth profit or pleasure But now since their pretended Reformation consisted as they gaue out in forsaking the corruptions of the Church the Reformation of thēselues and their diuision from vs falls out to be one and the selfe same thing Nay we see that although they infinitly disagree in the particulars of their reformation yet they symbolize and consent in the generall point of forsaking our pretended corruptions An euident signe that the thinge vpon which their thoughts first pitched was not any particuler Modell or Idaea of Religion but a setled resolution to forsake the Church of Rome Wherefore this Metaphysicall speculation that they intended only to reforme themselues cannot possibly excuse them from Schisme vnlesse first they be able to proue that they were obliged to depart from vs. Yet for as much as concernes the fact it selfe it is cleere that Luthers reuolt did not proceed from any zeale of Reformation The motiues which put him vpon so wretched and vnfortunate a worke were Couetousnes Ambition Lust Pride Enuy and grudging that the promulgation of Indulgences was not committed to himselfe or such as he desired He himselfe taketh God to witnesse that he fell into these troubles casually and (o) Casu nō voluntate in has turbas incidi Deum ipsum testor against his will not vpon any intention of Reformation not so much as dreaming or suspecting any change which might (p) Act. Ex mon. p. 404. happen And he began to preach against Indulgences when he knew not what (q) Steidan lib. 16. fol. 232. the matter meant For sayth he I scarcely vnderstood (r) Sleid. lib. 13. fol. 177. then what the name of Indulgences meāt In so much as afterwards Luther did much mislike of his owne vndertaken course oftentymes sayth he wishing (s) Luth. in colloq mensal that I had neuer begunne that busines And Fox sayth It is apparent that (t) Act. mon. pag. 404. Luther promised Cardinall Caietan to keepe silence prouided also his aduersaries would do the like M. Cowper reporteth further that Luther by his letter submitted (u) Cowp in his Cronicle himselfe to the Pope so that he might not be compelled to recant With much more which may be seene in (w) Tract 2. cap. 2. Sect. 11. subd 2. Brereley But this is sufficient to shew that Luther was far inough from intending any Reformation And if he iudged a Reformation to be necessary what a huge wickednes was it in him to promise silence if his aduersaries would do the like Or to submit himselfe to the Pope so that he might not be compelled to recant Or if the Reformation were not indeed intended by him nor iudged to be necessary how can he be excused
proceed rashly and peremptorily to censure others but left them to their liberty Did your Reformers imitate this manner of proceeding Did they censure no man much lesse any Church S. Cyprian belieued his owne Opinion to be true but belieued not that it was necessary and THEREFORE did not proceed rashly and peremptorily to censure others You belieue the points wherin Luther differs from vs not to be fundamentall or necessary and why do you not thence infer the like THEREFORE he should not haue proceeded to censure others In a word since their disagreement from vs concerned only points which were not fundamentall they should haue belieued that they might haue been deceaued as well as the whole visible Church which you say may erre in such points and therefore their doctrines being not certainely true and certainely not necessary they could not giue sufficient cause to depart from the Communion of the Church 42. In other places you write so much as may serue vs to proue that Luther and his followers ought to haue deposed and rectified their consciences As for example when you say When the Church (m) pag. 103. hath declared her selfe in any matter of opinion or of Rites her declaration obliges all her children to peace and externall obedience Nor is it fit or lawfull for any priuate man to oppose his iudgement to the publique as Luther and his fellowes did He may offer his opinion to be considered of so he do it with euidence or great probability of Scripture or reason and very modestly still contayning himselfe within the dutifull respect which he oweth but if he will factiously aduāce his own conceyts his owne conceyts and yet grounded vpō euidence of Scripture despise the Church so farre as to cut of her Communion he may be iustly branded and condemned for a Schismatique yea and an Heretique also in some degree in foro exteriori though his opinion were true and much more if it be false Could any man euen for a Fee haue spoken more home to condemne your Predecessors of Schisme or Heresy Could they haue stronger Motiues to oppose the doctrine of the Church and leaue her Communion then euidence of Scripture And yet according to your owne words they should haue answered and rectifyed their conscience by your doctrine that though their opinion were true and grounded vpon euidence of Scripture or reason yet it was not lawfull for any priuate man to oppose his iudgment to the publique which obligeth all Christians to peace and externall obedience and if they cast of the communion of the Church for maintayning their owne Conceits they may be branded for Schismatiques and Heretiques in some degree and in foro exteriori that is all other Christians ought so to esteeme of them and why then are we accounted vncharitable for iudging so of you and they also are obliged to behaue themselues in the face of all Christian Churches as if indeed they were not Reformers but Schismatiques and Heretiques or as Pagans and Publicans I thanke you for your ingenuous confession in recompence wherof I will do a deed of Charity by putting you in mind into what labyrinths you are brought by teaching that the Church may erre in some points of fayth and yet that it is not lawfull for any man to oppose his iudgment or leaue her Communion though he haue euidence of Scripture against her Will you haue such a man dissemble against his conscience or externally deny a truth knowne to be contained in holy Scripture How much more coherently do Catholiques proceed who belieue the vniuersall infallibility of the Church and from thence are assured that there can be no euidence of Scripture or reason against her definitions nor any iust cause to forsake her Cōmunion M. Hooker esteemed by many Protestants an incomparable man yields as much as we haue alledged out of you The will of God is sayth he to haue (n) In his Preface to his bookes of Ecclesiastical policy Sect. 6. pag. 28. them do whatsoeuer the sentence of iudiciall and finall docision shall determine yea though it seeme in their priuate opinion to swarue vtterly from that which is right Doth not this man tell Luther what the will of God was which he transgressing must of necessity be guilty of Schisme And must not M. Hooker either acknowledge the vniuersall infallibility of the Church or else driue men into the perplexities and labyrinths of distembling against their conscience wherof now I spake Not vnlike to this is your doctrine deliuered elsewhere Before the Nicene Councell say you many (o) pag. 131. good Catholique Bishops were of the same opinion with the Donatists that the Baptisme of Heretiques was ineffectuall and with the Nouatians that the Church ought not to absolue some grieuous sinners These errors therfore if they had gone no further were not in themselues Hereticall especially in the proper and most heauy or bitter sense of that word neither was it in the Churches intention or in her power to make them such by her declaration Her intention was to silence all disputes and to settle peace and Vnity in her gouernment to which all wise and peaceable men submitted whatsoeuer their opinion was And those factious people for their vnreasonable and vncharitable opposition were very iustly branded for Schismatiques For vs the Mistaker will neuer proue that we oppose any declaration of the Catholique Church c. and therfore he doth vniustly charge vs either with Schisme or Heresy These words manifestly condemne your Reformers who opposed the visible Church in many of her declarations Doctrines and Commaunds imposed vpon them for silencing all disputes and setling peace and Vnity in the gouernment and therfore they still remayning obstinately disobedient are iustly charged with Schisme and Heresy And it is to be obserued that you grant the Donatists to haue been very iustly branded for Schismatiques although their opposition against the Church did concerne as you hold a point not fundamentall to the Fayth and which according to S. Augustine cannot be proued out of Scripture alone and therfore either doth euidently conuince that the Church is vniuersally infallible euen in points not fundamentall or else that it is Schisme to oppose her declarations in those very things wherin she may erre and consequently that Luther and his fellowes were Schismatiques by opposing the visible Church for points not fundamentall though it were vntruly supposed that she erred in such points But by the way how come you on the suddaine to hold the determination of a Generall Councell of Nice to be the declaration of the Catholique Church seeing you teach That Generall Councels may erre euen fundamentally And do you now say with vs that to oppose the declaration of the Church is sufficient that one may be branded with Heresy which is a point so often impugned by you 43. It is therfore most euident that no pretended scruple of conscience could excuse Luther which he might and
vniuersall Church She hath this (t) Cont. lit Petil. lib. 1. cap. 104. most certaine marke that she cannot be hidden She is then knowne to all Nations The Sect of Donatus is vnknown to many Nations therfore that cannot be she The Sect of Luther at least when he began and much more before his beginning was vnknowne to many Nations therfore that cannot be she 17. And that it may yet further appeare how perfectly Luther agreed with the Donatists It is to be noted that they neuer taught that the Catholique Church ought not to extend it selfe further then that part of Africa where their faction raigned but only that in fact it was so confined because all the rest of the Church was prophaned by communicating with Caecilianus whom they falsly affirmed to haue been ordained Bishop by those who were Traditours or giuers vp of the Bible to the Persecutors to be burned yea at that very time they had some of their Sect residing in Rome and sent thither one Victor a Bishop vnder colour to take care of their Brethren in that Citty but indeed as Baronius (u) Anno 321. nu 2. Spond obserueth that the world might account them Catholiques by communicating with the Bishop of Rome to communicate with whom was euen taken by the Ancient Fathers as an assured signe of being a true Catholique They had also as S. Augustine witnesseth a pretended (w) De Vni Eccles c. 3. Church in the howse and territory of a Spanish Lady called Lucilla who went flying out of the Catholique Church because she had been iustly checked by Caectlianus And the same Saint speaking of the conference he had with Fortunius the Donatist sayth Heere did he first (x) Ep. 163. attempt to affirme that his Communion was spread ouer the whole Earth c. but because the thing was euidently false they got out of this discourse by confusion of language wherby neuertheles they sufficiently declared that they did not hold that the true Church ought necessarily to be confined to one place but only by meere necessity were forced to yield that it was so in fact because their Sect which they held to be the only true Church was not spread ouer the world In which point Fortunius and the rest were more modest then he who should affirme that Luther's reformation in the very beginning was spead ouer the whole Earth being at that time by many degrees not so far diffused as the Sect of the Donatists I haue no desire to prosecute the similitude of Protestants with Donatists by remembring that the Sect of these men was began and promoted by the passion of Lucilla and who is ignorant what influence two women the Mother and Daughter ministred to Protestancy in England Nor will I stand to obserue their very likenes of phrase with the Donatists who called the Chaire of Rome the Chaire of pestilence and the Roman Church an Harlot which is D. Potter's owne phrase wherin he is lesse excusable then they because he maintaineth her to be a true Church of Christ therfore let him duely ponder these words of S. Augustine against the Donatists If I persecute him iustly who detracts (y) Conc. super gest cust Emeriâ— from his Neighbour why should I not persecute him who detracts from the Church of Christ and sayth this is not she but this is an Harlot And least of all will I consider whether you may not be well compared to one Ticonius a Donatist who wrote against Parmenianus likewise a Donatist who blasphemed that the Church of Christ had perished as you do euen in this your Booke write against some of your Protestant Brethren or as you call them Zelots among you who hold the very same or rather a worse Heresy and yet remained among them euen after Parmenianus had excommunicated him as those your Zealous Brethren would proceed agaynst you if it were in their power and yet like Ticonius you remaine in their Communion and come not into that Church which is hath been and shall euer be vniuersall For which very cause S. Augustin complaines of Ticonius that although he wrote against the Donatists yet he was of an hart (z) De doctr Christ lib. 3. cap. 30. so extremely absurd as not to forsake them alto gether And speaking of the same thing in another place he obserues that although Ticonius did manifestly confute them who affirmed that the Church had perished yet he saw not sayth this holy Father that which in good consequence (a) Cont. Parm. l. 1. cap. 1. he should haue seene that those Christians of Africa belonged to the Church spread ouer the whole world who remained vnited not with them who were diuided from the communion and vnity of the same world but with such as did communicate with the whole world But Parmenianus and the rest of the Donatists saw that consequence and resolued rather to settle their mind in obstinacy against the most manifest truth which Ticonius maintained then by yielding therto to be ouercome by those Churches in Africa which enioyed the communion of that vnity which Ticonius defended from which they had diuided themselues How fitly these words agree to Catholiques in England in respect of the Protestants I desire the Reader to consider But these and the like resemblances of Protestants to the Donatistes I willingly let passe and onely vrge the maine point That since Luthers Reformed Church was not in being for diuers Centuries before Luther and yet was because so forsooth they will needs haue it in the Apostles time they must of necessity affirme heretically with the Donatists that the true and vnspotted Church of Christ perished that she which remained on earth was O blasphemy an Harlot Moreouer the same heresy followes out of the doctrine of D. Potter and other Protestants that the Church may erre in points not fundamentall because we haue shewed that euery errour against any one reuealed truth is Heresy and damnable whether the matter be otherwise of it selfe great or small And how can the Church more truly be sayd to perish then when she is permitted to maintaine a damnable Heresy Besides we will heereafter proue that by any act of Heresy all diuine fayth is lost to imagine a true Church of faithfull persons without any fayth is as much as to fancy a liuing man without life It is therefore cleere that Donatist-like they hold that the Church of Christ perished yea they are worse then the Donatists who said that the Church remained at least in Africa whereas Protestants must of necessity be forced to grant that for a long space before Luther she was no where at all But let vs goe forward to other reasons 18. The holy Scripture and Ancient Fathers do assigne Separation from the Visible Church as a marke of Heresy according to that of S. Iohn They went out (b) 2. Ioan 19. from vs. And Some who (c) Act. 15.24 went out from
when our Sauiour bid the Apostles preach to all Nations and yet neuer performed by Protestants by euidence of fact and by the confession of our Aduersaries doth shine most bright in the Church of Rome 4. But I cannot say that you omitted to raile against the Iesuites whom I will not dishonour so much as to defend them against that which you offer so impertinently vulgarly and meanely against them and particularly because in defence of a common cause I will not be diuerted by the consideration of particular persons though by reason of the Eminency of the person of Cardinall Dâ—ossat I cannot for beare to tell you that you falsify him when you make him say in his eight Epistle that he collected from their wicked doctrine and practises that they belieue neither in Iesus Christ nor the Pope For the Cardinall speakes not those words of any doctrine or practises of the Iesuites And in the funerall Oration which was pronounced at the Exequyes of the said Cardinall and is prefixed before the Booke which you alleadge it is affirmed that he of his owne accord and without being dealt with to that purpose did negociate the read mission of the Iesuites into France So far was he from collecting from their doctrine practises that they belieue neither in Iesus Christ nor in the Pope And as for our doctrine which concernes the incompatibility of Protestancy with saluation as proper to the Iesuites it is an idle speach void of all colour of truth For it is so far from being proper to them that it is common to all Roman Catholiques in the world and you shall neuer be able to shew me any one of an entire fame who holds the contrary 5. And wheras you aske Why may not a Protestant be saued since he belieues entirely the Scriptures the Catholique Creeds and whatsoeuer the Catholique Church in all ages hath belieued as necessary to saluation You may take the answere out of my First Part where I haue shewed that he neither keepes the Commaundments nor belieues all things necessary to saluation yea and belieues not any one point with diuine and supernaturall fayth who disobeyes and disagrees from the visible Church of Christ in any one thing propounded by her as a Diuine truth 6. You tell vs that you are no further departed from the present Roman Church then she is departed from herselfe But no wise man will belieue this till you can informe him what visible Church at or before Luthers appearance remained pure out of which the Roman Church had formerly departed or els you must confesse that the whole Church of Christ was corrupted Which because you will neuer be able to doe with truth you must be forced to confesse that she still kept her integrity without any spot of erroneous doctrine and therfore that your departure out of her cannot be excused from Schisme and Heresy 7. You say truly That it is meerly impossible (b) Pag. 10. the Catholique Church should want Charity because the good spirit of Truth and Loue euer assists and animates that great Body But you speake not consequently to your owne Assertion that the Catholique Church may erre in points of fayth not fundamentall For if the good spirit of Truth may faile to assist her fayth why may not the good Spirit of Loue faile to direct her Charity Nay if we obserue it well the Want of Charity which you impute to vs is resolued into this doctrinall point Protestancy vnrepented destroies saluation Which Doctrine and Assertion if you hold to be a fundamentall errour you depriue vs of saluation and become as vncharitable to vs as you say we are to you If it be not a fundamentall point then according to your principles the Church may erre therin and so want Charity by iudging that Protestants cannot be saued 8. What we vnderstand by the Roman Catholique Church I haue explained heertofore to wit all Christians vnited with the Church of Rome as it is the sea of Peter In which sense it is not a part but comprehendeth all the Catholique Church which heertofore I proued out of the Fathers as in some proportion we do not vnderstand the Tribe of Iuoa alone by the Iewish Church though the other Tribes were called by the name of the Iewish People and Church from that principall Tribe of Iuda So that your marginall quotations to proue that the Church of Rome is a particular Church are emplored to proue that which no man denies if we speake of the particular Diocesse of Rome and not as it is the Sea of Peter to which all Christian Catholiques dispersed throughout the whole world are vnited Which Sea of Peter setled in Rome being the Roote the Center the Fountaine the Idaea of all Ecclesiasticall Vnion in all Christian Churches giueth them the denomination of Roman Catholiques which doth no more limit the whole Catholique Church then the name of Iewish Church did limit the whole Sinagogue to the Tribe of Iuda alone And therfore your thred-bare Obiection that Catholique Roman (c) Pag. 11. are termes repugnant signifying vniuersall particular vanisheth vtterly away by this different acception of the Roman Church and serues only to conuince by your owne obiection that D. Potter or the Church of England cannot stile themselues Catholique because Catholique signifieth Vniuersall and D. Potter and the Church of England are things particular And I would gladly know what your Brethren meane when they affirme the Roman Church for diuers Ages to haue possessed the whole world Do they thinke that the particular Diocesse of Rome was lifted ouer the Alpes Or when your Prelates demaund whether we be Roman Catholiques do they demaund whether we dwell in the Citty or Diocesse of Rome And heer I note in a word what now cometh to my mind that I wonder D. Andrewes a man so highly esteemed among Protestants would tell vs that the Roman Church is indiuiduum (d) In Rest. ad Apolog. Card. Bollar ad ca. 5. as the Logicians call it and that Catholique is Genus or a generall kind For to omit that the thing it selfe is ridiculous it maketh directly for vs because euery indiuiduum containes in it selfe the Genus as Peter for example is a substance a sensible creature c. and so if the Roman Church be indiuiduum it must containe Catholique in it selfe and so the Roman Church must of necessity be affirmed to be a Catholique Church Before I leaue this point I must tell you that you corrupt Innocentius Tertius to proue (e) Pag. 12. that the Roman Church was anciently esteemed a Topical or particular Church distinct from others and in vnder the vniuersal in these words It is called the Vniuersall Church which consists of all Churches where you put an c. and then add Ecclesia Romana sic non est voâ—uersalis Ecclesia sed pars vniuersalis Ecclesiae The Roman Church is not thus the vniuersall Church but part of
the vniuersall Church where you breake off But Innocentius his words are these The Vniuersall Church is said to be that which consists of all Churches which of the Greeke word is called Catholique and according to this acception of the Word the Roman Church is not the Vniuersall Church but part of the Vniuersall Church Yet the first and chiefe part as the head in the body because in her fulnes of power doth exist but only a part of fulnes is deriued to others And that One Church which containes vnder it selfe all Churches is said to be the Vniuersall Church And according to this signification of the Word only the Roman Church is called the Vniuersall Church because she alone is preferred before the rest by priuiledge of singuler dignity As God is called the vniuersall Lord not because he is diuided into species c. but because all things are contained vnder his Dominion For there is One generall Church of which Truth it selfe said to Peter Thou art Peter and vpon this Rocke c. And the many particular Churches of which the Apostle sayth Instantia mea c. One doth consist of all as the generall of particulars One hath the preeminence before all because seing there is one Body of the Church of which the Apostle sayth We are all one Body in Christ she excels the rest as the Head excels the other members of the body Thus far Innocentius who as you see teacheth that the Roman Church is the Head of all others That although the Roman Church in one sense be a particular Church yet in another sense it both is and ought to be called the Vniuersall Church and finally that your Obiectiō about the repugnance betwixt the terme Vniuersall and particular is friuolous as he explicates very well by the example of Almighty God who is said to be an Vniuersall Cause and yet had neyther genus nor species and besids whom there are other particular Causes Is this to affirme as you say that the Roman Church is a topycall or particular Church in and vnder the Vniuersall Or that she is onely Topicall or particular as you would make the Reader belieue 9. Your preaching rather then prouing the Charity of your Church Administration of Sacraments c. must rely vpon a voluntary begging of the Question that your Religion is true otherwise the good deeds you mention are not expressions of Charity but professions of Heresy The learned Cardinall Hosius saying Whosoeuer belieues (f) Hosiu in Confess Petricon çap. 14. the Article of the Catholique Church belieues all things necessary to Saluation sayes no more then you will say that whosoeuer belieues the whole Canon of Scripture belieues all things necessary to Saluation And you cannot but speake against your owne conscience when you say of the Roman Church pag. 16. She tells them it is Creed inough for them to belieue onely in the Catholike Church For your selfe pag. 198. affirme that the best aduised of Catholique Deuines yield there are some points necessary to be knowne of all sorts necessitate medi◠in which points implicite fayth doth not suffice you cite some of our Authors to this purpose Chap. 71. 241. and referre vs to a great many more What conscionable dealing is this I will not stand to note that Hosius euen as he is cited by you in Latin doth not say that we belieue in the Church as you make him speake in your text but that we belieue the Church But inough of this 10. In your First Edition I find these wordes Neuer did (g) Pag. 13. any Church affoard more plentifully the meanes of grace nor more abound with all helps and aduantages of Piety then this of ours But in your second Edition you say No Church of this Age doth affoard c. Whereby you acknowledge that at first you did ouerlash so do you now But it comes to you by kind Beza makes bold to say When I compare euen the tymes which were next to the Apostles (h) In epist. Theol. epist. 1. pag. 5. with ours I am wont to say and in my opinion not without cause that they had more conscience and lesse knowledge and contrarily we haue more knowledge and lesse conscience And M. Whitgift your once Archbishop of Canterbury sayth The doctrine taught and professed (i) In his defēce of the answer c. pag. 472. 473. by our Bishops at this day is more perfect and sounder then commonly was in any Age after the Apostles c. How greatly were almost all the Bishops and learned Writers of the Greeke Church and Latins also for the most part spotted with doctrines of Free will of Merits of Inuocation of Saints and such like Surely you are not able to reckon in any Age since the Apostles times any Company of Bishops that taught and held so sound and perfect doctrine in all points as the Bishops of England do at this day And will not the Puritanes say that they are more pure then Protestants and Anabaptists accompt themselues more vnspotted then Puritanes c In the meane time your own Archbishop grants that Almost all the Bishops learned Writers of the Greeke Church and Latins also were for the most part spotted with doctrines which now you call Popish Superstitions 11. The rest of this Section contaynes nothing but rayling and vntruths continually vttered by euery Minister and often answered by our Writers In Catholique Countreys there may be good reason for not mentioning the needles praises of condemned Heretiques lest the estimation of their morall parts which they abuse against Gods Church breed a liking and add authority to their pestiferous errors If D. Stapleton or any other speaking of Heretiques in generall compare them to Magicians c. as Tertullian also doth what is that to you vnles you be resolued to proclaime your selfe an Heretique Such sayings are not directed to their Persons which we loue but fall vpon their sinne which considered in it selfe cannot I hope be ouerwronged by ill language S. Policarpe called an Heretique the first begotten of the Diuell S. Paul giues them the name of (k) Philip. 3.2 Dogs S. Iohn * Ep. 2.7 termes them Antichrists as your Ministers are wont to call the Pope Charity Mistaken compares you not with Iewes or Turkes for impossibility to be saued Euery deadly sinne excludes saluation yet some are more grieuous and further from pardon then others 12. I hope the Mistaker (l) Pag. 19. would not wish vs conuerted from our Creed No But we wish you conuerted from Erroneous Interpretations therof to the Catholique Church which we professe in our Creed In the meane time these are learned arguments which may serue both sides Protestants belieue the Creed Ergo they need not be couuerted Catholiques belieue the Creed Ergo they need not be conuerted You tell vs of a Censure of the Creed written by some Catholique And in your first Edition you put Censura
1. epist 3. Ibid. ep 6. and others And I pray you if one vtter some Heresy in presence of his brother doth he not in a very high degree offend his Brother and consequently is he not comprehended in those words of our Sauiour If thy Brother offend thee c. Now if the Church were fallible how could we be obliged vnder payne of being reckoned Pagans and Publicans to obey her Decrees and Declarations concerning matters of fayth which is a Vertue that necessarily inuolues infallibility But when did you euer heare any Catholique say what you impose vpon Charity Mistaken that absolute obedience is due vnto the Church no appeale being allowed no not (r) pag. 28. to Scriptures though expounded in a Catholike sense and consonantly to the iudgment of the most ancient and famous members of the Church With what face can you vtter such stuffe You know we belieue that the Church cannot oppose Scripture 5. As for those corruptions of the Text of S. Cyprian in his Booke de vnitate Ecclesiae which you charge Pamelius to haue committed in fauour of S. Peters Primacy it is but an old obiection borrowed of others and purposely answered by Pamelius in his notes vpon that Booke where for his iustification he cites diuers ancient Copies and one more then nine hundred yeares old And as for the phrase maine point it selfe that Christ built the Church vpon Peter it is expressely affirmed by S. Cyprian in many other places which I quote in the (s) De exhort Mart. c. 11. ep 55.69.73 which last is cited by S. Augustin de Bapt. lib. 3. c. 17. as he cites the like wordes out of epist 71. ad Quint. Margent whereby it manifestly appeareth what S. Cyprian belieued about the Authority of Saint Peter and how much his Booke de Vnitate Ecclesiae maketh for the Roman Church neyther can you in all S. Cyprians workes or in this place in particular shew any thing to the contrary as you are pleased to (t) Pag. 30. affirme To proue that our vnworthy fashion is to alter raze many records and Monuments of Antiquity you cite a moderne English Writer Sixtus Senensis But both of them are alledged after your fashion for the first speakes onely of Bookes writen in fauour of the Popes Power in temporall things wherein neuertheles we can in no wise allow of his saying nor is he in this point a competent witnes and the second directly falsifyed For you say he highly commends (u) Epist dedie ad Pium 5. Pope Pius the fifth for the care which he had to extinguish all dangerous Bookes and to purge the writings of all Catholique Authours especially of the Ancient Fathers from the silth and poyson of Heresy there you end the sentence But Sixtus Senensis hath faecibus haereticorum aetatis nostrae from the dregs of the Heretiques of our tymes vnderstanding nothing else but that the sayd holy Pope cause the false Annotations Glosses Marginall notes c. of Erasmus and moderne Heretiques to be blotted or taken out of the Bookes of the holy Fathers Is not this playne falsification And so much lesse excusable because it could not be done but wittingly and willingly for that in the Margent you cite the Latin when you come to those wordes especially of the ancient Fathers you breake off with an c. leauing out that which did directly ouerthrow the purpose for which you alledged those wordes For want of better matter you tell vs of an Edition of Isidorus Pelusiotes his Greeke Epistles approued because they contayned nothing contrary to the Catholique Roman Religion wherein what great harme is there If the Approbator had left out Roman would you haue made this obiection To vs Catholique and Roman are all one as heertofore I explicated But it seemes say you that they had not passed but vpon that Condition This is but a poore Consequence in Logicke For one effect may be produced by some cause yet in such manner as that the effect would follow though that cause were taken away accordingly you grant that the aforesayd clause of Approbation is left out in another Edition Neyther can you be ignorant that Catholiques do print and reprint the writings of ancient Authours although they contayne Heresies as the workes of Tertullian Origen c And therfore you are lesse excusable both for making this Obiection in generall and also for falsifying Sixtus Senensis in particular 6. The places alledged by you out of S. Augustin against the Donatists come far short of prouing that (u) pag. 32. Scripture alone is the Iudge or rather as you correct your selfe Rule of Cōtrouersies your bringing thē to that purpose is directly against S. Augustins words meaning as will appeare by what now I am about to say Two Questions were debated between the Catholiques Donatists the one concerning the Church whether or no she were confined to that corner of the world where the faction of Donatus did reside The other whether such as were baptized by Heretiques ought to be rebaptized We grant that S. Augustine in the former Question pressed the Donatists with manifest Scripture to proue the exeternall apparant Notes or Markes of the Church as Visibility Perpetuity Amplitude Vniuersality c. And no wonder that he appealed to Scripture For that very Questiō being whether the Catholiques or Donatists were the true Church to suppose the Catholiques to be the true Church and vpon that supposition to alledge their Authority against the Donatists had been but to beg the Question as if there were Controuersy whether some particular Booke were Canonical Scripture or no it were an idle thing to alledge that very writing in question to proue it selfe Canonicall and on the other side both the Catholikes and Donatists did acknowledge belieue the same Scriptures which as S. Augustine is wont to say speake more cleerely of the Church then of Christ himselfe and therfore he had good reason to try that Question concerning the Church by cleer not doubtfull Testimonies of holy Writ wheras the Donatists had recourse eyther to obscure Texts as that of the Canticles Shew me where thou feedest where thou liest in the mid day to proue that the Church was cōfined to Africa or els to humane Testimonies as Acts of Notaries or Scriueners to proue that the Catholiques had been Traditores that is had giuē vp the holy Bible to be burned Or that they had sacrificed to Idols Or had been cause of persecution against Christians and that either for these crimes or for communicating with such as had committed them the Church had perished from among Catholiques Or els they produced their owne bare affirmation or mock-Miracles false Councels of THEIR OWNE All which proofes being very partiall insufficient and impertinent S. Augustin had reason to say Let these fictions (w) De vnïe Eccles cap. 19. of lying men or fantasticall wonders of deceiptfull
expressely condemne as erroneous or in the next degree to Heresy But because it were a vanity to muster a number of Writers in a question impertinent to our present designe which is only against Heresy or Schisme both which exclude inuincible ignorance I hold it best to passe them ouer in silence 30. Your saying that A man may be a true visible membër (t) Pag. 47. of the holy Catholique Church who is not actually otherwise then in vow a member of any true visible Church destroyes it selfe For in the same manner and degree neyther more nor lesse a man is a visible member in act or in desire of the visible Church as he is a mēber of the true Catholique Church which is visible And Bellarmine whome you cite for your selfe is directly agaynst you For he teacheth that a man may (u) de Eccles milit cap. 6. Respondeo be in the Church in desire which is sufficient for Saluation when he is inuoluntarily hindred from being actually of the Church and yet not in the Church by externall Comunion which properly maketh him to be of the visible Church which is directly to deny what you affirmed I might reflect what a pretty connection you make in saying who is not actually otherwise then in vow c. you might as well haue sayd who is not actually otherwise then not in act c. But such small matters as these I willingly dissemble The poore man in the Ghospell was cast out of the Synagogue by notorious iniustice and therefore still remayned a member of the Iewish Church not only in desire but also in act You say Athanasius stood single in defense of diuine Truth all his Brethren the other Patriarchs not he of Rome excepted hauing subscribed to Arianisme and cast him out of their Communion And you referre vs to Baronius cited in your Margent to what purpose I know not except to display your owne bad proceeding For Baronius in the place by you alledged (w) Anno 357. num 44. apud Spond doth not incidently or only by the way but industriously and of set purpose cleere Pope Libertu◠from hauing euer subscribed to Arianisme He subscribed indeed to the condemnation of S. Athanasius which was not for matter of faith but of fact to wit for certayne crimes obiected agaynst him as Bellarmine (x) De Rom. Port lib. 4. cap. 9. affirmeth which being false S. Athanasius did not therefore cease to be a member of the Catholike Church If the errours of Tertullian were in themselues so smal as you would make them it may serue for an example that not so much the matter as the manner and obstinacy is that which makes an Heretique which ouerthrowes your distinction of points fundamentall c. 31. The proofes which you bring from the Africans and others that Communion with the Roman Church was not alwayes held necessary to Saluation haue been a thousand tymes answered by Catholique Writers and they are such as you could not haue chosen any more disaduantagious to your cause Heertofore I shewed that Communion with the Roman Church was by Antiquity iudged to be the marke of a true Belieuer And indeed seing you speake of those times wherin Rome stood in her purity as you say how could any be diuided from her fayth and yet belieue aright Do not your selfe say Whosoeuer professeth himselfe to forsake (y) Pag. 76. the Communion of any one member of the Body of Christ must confesse himselfe consequently to forsake the whole How then could any diuide themselues from the Romane Church while she was in her purity Euen S. Cyprian whose example you alleage fayth They (z) Ad Cornel ep 33. presume to saile to the Roman Church which is the Chaire of Peter and to the principall Chaire from whence Priestly Vnity hath sprung Neither do they consider that they are Romans whose fayth was commended by the preaching of the Apostle to whom falshood cannot haue accesse Optatus Mileuitanus also an African saith At Rome hath been constituted to Peter (a) 〈◊〉 Parm. lib. 2. the Episcopall Chaire that in this only Chaire the Vnity of all might be preserued And S. Augustine like wise an African affirmeth that Cacilianus might despise (b) Epist 62 the conspiring multitude of his enemies that is of seauenty Bishops of Africa assembled in Numidia because he saw himselfe vnited by letters Communicatory with the Roman Church in which the Principality of the Sea Apostolique had alwayes flourished And after Pelagius had been iudged in the East by the Bishops of Palestine and Celestius his Disciple had been excommunicated for the same cause in Asrica by the African Bishops the Mileuitan Councell referred them finally to the Pope saying We hope by the (c) Ep. Conc. Mileu ad Innocent inter epist. Aug. epist 92 mercy of our Lord Iesus-Christ who vouchsafe to gouerne thee consulting with him and to heare thee praying to him that those who hold these Doctrines so peruerse and pernicious will more easily yield to the authority of thy Holynes drawne out of the holy Scriptures Behold the Popes prerogatiue drawne out of the holy Scriptures And it is very strang that you will alleage the Authority of S. Cyprian and other Bishops of Africa against Pope Stephen who opposed himselfe to them in the Question of Rebaptization wherin they agreed with the Heresy of the Donatists which was condemned not only by the Pope but by the whole Church yea by those very Bishops who once adhered to S. Cyprian as S. Hierome witnesseth saying Finally they who had been (d) Coutra Luçifer of the same opinion set forth a new decree saying What shall we do So hath it been deliuered to them by their Ancestors and ours And Vincentius Lyrinensis speaking of Stephen his opposing S. Cyprian sayth Then (e) In Com. part 1. the blessed Stephen resisted together with but yet before his Collegues iudging it as I conceiue to be a thing worthy of him to excell them as much in Fayth as he did in the authority of his place 32. Neither are you more fortunate in the example of Pope Victor then in the other of Stephen For although Eusebius whom S. Hierome (f) Contra Ruff. Apol. 1. stiles the Ensigne-bearer of the Arian Sect and who was a profest Enemy of the Roman Church doth relate that S. Irenaeus (g) Hist. Eccles lib. 5. c. 24. reprehended Victor for hauing excommunicated the Churches of Asia for the question about keeping Easter yet euen he dare not say that Irenaeus blamed the Pope for want of Power but for misapplying it which supposeth a Power to do it if the cause had been sufficient And the successe shewed that euen in the vse of his Power Pope Victor was in the right For after his death the Councels of Nice Constantinople and Ephesus which you receiue as lawfull Generall Councels excommunicated those who held the same Custome with the Prouinces which