refer my self to any unbyassed Readers Judgment in the case betwixt us Calumnies pag. 3.32 36 47. Falsifications pag. 31.37 50 54 62 70 126 155. False Translations pag. 42.48 Unsincerities Uncharitable Accusations Wilful mistakes of our Doctrin Affected Misapplications of Equivocal words False Impositions Authors Misapplied Plain Contradictions pag. 46.86 In almost every Article A CATALOGUE OF AUTHORS Cited in the following BOOK With their Editions A ACts of the General Assembly of the French Clergy Engl. 1685. S. Ambros Basileae 1567. Aquinatis Summa Theol. fol. Parisiis 1632. S. Athana Ex Officina Commeliniana An. 1601. S. Augustini Opera Basileae 1569. S. Augustini Opera Imperf Cont. Julian B S. Basilei Opera Paris 1618. Bellarm. de Scrip. Eccl. Colon. 1622. Bellarm. Opera Lugduni 1587. Col. Agrip. 1619. Biblia Sacra vulgat English Protestant Bible Bibliotheca Patrum Coloniae 1618 Brereley Protestant Apology 1608. Liturgy of the Mass Col. 1620. Breviarium Monasticum Paris 1675. C Card. Cajetan in D. Thomam Venetiis 1612. Card. Capisucchi Capit. Theol. Selec Cassandri Opera Paris 1616. Ejusd Consultatio vid. Grotii via ad Pacem Catechismus Romanus Antverpiae ex Officina Plant. 1606. Chemnitii Examen Concil Trid. Francof 1574. Sti. Chrysostomi Epistola ad Caesarium Sti. Chrysost Edit Commelian 1596. item 1603. Frontoduc 1616. The Book of Common-Prayer London 1686. Summa Conciliorum Bail fol. Par. 1675. Concilia Binii Paris 1636. Concilia Gen. Provinc Colon. 1578. Concilium Tridentinum Paris 1674. Cressy against Dr. Pierce 's Court Sermon 1663. Sti. Cypriani Opera Paris 1648. Cyprian Angl. 2d Edit D Defence of the Exposition of the Doctrin of the Church of England 1686. Dionys Areopag Eccles Hierarch Paris 1644. Durandus in Sententias Lud. 1569. E Exposition of the Doctrin of the Church of England 1686. S. Ephrem Edit Ger. Vossii Colon. 1616. Error Non-plust 1673. Estius in 4 Libros Sententiarum Parisiis 1672. Eusebii Historia Ecclesisastica Basileae G The Guide in Controversie 1673. Sti. Gregor Mag. Paris 1533. Sti. Gregorii Opera Sti. Gregor Nazianzeni Opera Paris 1609. Sti. Greg. Nyssen Paris 1615. Antwerpiae 1572. Grotii via ad pacem cum Consult Cassandri 80. 1642. Gualteri Chronologia Lugduni 1616. H Hist Anglic. Harpsfeldei Duaci 1622. Book of Homilies fol. 1673. Hen. Huntingdoniensis Hist Francofurti 1601. I Sti. Irenaei Adversus Haeres Colon. 1596. Sti. Justini Mart. Parisiis 1615. item Edit Commel 1593. L Lombardi Sentent apud Scotum M Maimburg Hist de l' Arianism Edit Paris 4o. 1673. Maldonat in Evang. fol. Mogunt 1611. In Prophet as Minores 40. Mongutiae 1611. Monsieur de Meaux Exposition Eng. 4o. by Hen. Hills 1686. French 5 Edit 12o. A Paris An. 1681. Traité de la Communion sous les deus especes 12o. A Paris 1682. Missale Romano Monasticum Paris 1666. N Nubes Testium 1686. O Origines old Character 1512. P Du Perron Replique a la Reponse du Roy de la Grande Bretaigne fol. Paris 1620. De l'Eucharistie fol. Paris 1629. Plain Man's Reply 1687. Polyd. Virgilius Hist Anglic. Basileae 1534. Pontificale Romanum fol. Romae 1645. Protestant Apology 1608. R Roman Catholic Doctrin no Novelties See Cressy against Dr. Pierce Court Sermon Rufini Historia Basileae S Scotus in Magistrum Sententiarum Antverp 1620. Sherlocks Sermon before the House of Commons 1685. A short Summary of the Principal Controversies 1687. Sixti Senensis Bibl. Sancta Coloniae 1576. Socratis Sozomen c. Histo Basileae Sparrows Collections of Cannons London 1675. 4o. Suarez Venetiis 1597. T Tertulliani Opera Regaltii Paris 1664. Theodoreti Historia Basileae Thorndike just Weights and Measures 4o. London 1662. Epilogue fol. London 1659. V Vasques Antwerp 1620. Vindication of the Church of England from Schism and Heresie 1687. Vindication of the Bishop of Condoms Exposition 1686. A REPLY TO THe DEFENCE OF THE Exposition of the Doctrin of the Church of England ART I. INTRODVCTION THat he who accuses another of Great and Heinous Crimes §. 1. Def. p. 1. ought to take all prudent care not to be guilty himself of those Faults which he condemns in others is certain But whether this Author of the Defence or I have governed our selves by this Maxim is to be cleared and I suppose the Judicious Readers will neither take his nor my bare assertion for a proof and therefore to avoid more words I commit the whole to their Examen in the following Articles I shall pass by also what he says concerning the Authority of an Imprimatur Carolus Alston c. which he equalizes to a Permissu Superiorum tho' I hope he will not contend with those Testimonies which are given to the Exposition and proceed to the Point in question If Calumny and Vnsincerity be now the Catholic Cry §. I. it is because Idolatry Idolatry and Superstition Prot. Cry and Calumnies at present Superstition and I know not what more harsh names are now the Protestants There was a time as this Author knows in which the genuin Sons of the Church of England excused the Roman Catholic Church of that odious Imputation of Idolatry and acknowledged the Doctrin of the Church as to that particular to be innocent Dr. Jackson Dr. Field Arch-Bishop I and Dr. Heylin Mr. Thern 〈◊〉 Dr. Hammand c. He knows too that some persons never Excommunicated nor censured by the Church of England for it have maintain'd that the Sons of the Church of England cannot defend the Charge of Idolatry against the Church of Rome without denying that Church to be a true Church Other Protestants thought the charge unjust and by consequence without contradicting themselves without going against the intention of the Reformation which was not to make a new Church but to restore a Sick Church to it's Soundness a Corrupted Church to it's Purity Thorn like Just weights and measures Chap. 1.2 Chap. 1.3 Chap. 2. p. 9. without casting the Sin of Schism at their own Dores and being answerable for all the Ill consequences of it Nay more that he who takes the Pope for Antichrist and the Papists for Idolaters can never weigh by his own Weights and mete by his own Measures till he hate Papists worse than Jews or Mahumetans of which the Presbyterian and the Puritan have been guilty but the Clergy and Gentry of the Church of England have been hitherto more Christian I would gladly therefore know how it comes to pass Defence p. 88. that at this time when he acknowledges there was never more cause to hope for an Vnion and wishes that all such things as heighten our Animosities might on all sides be buried in eternal Oblivion An Exposition of the Doctrin of the Church of England should be ushered in with that odious Imputation of Adoring Men and Women Crosses and Images c. Where do's he find the Church of England in her Thirty Nine Articles or publick Testimonies of her Dogmatical Doctrin charging the Church of Rome
Exercises Taught and Practised by St. Augustin §. 8. This same Faith was delivered by continual Succession till in these later days it was weakned by H. the 8ths Schism were propagated down even till King Henry the 8ths time whose Lust and Rapines as they were insatiable so were the Actions which he did in order to the fulfilling of them unparallelled Every one who has Read any thing of our Histories knows that his first breach with Rome was because his Holiness would not allow him to separate from his Lawful Wife Queen Catharine that he might Marry Ann Daughter of Sir Tho. Bullen and that having once caused this Schism Millia dena unus Templorum destruit annâ—s he propagated it by Sacrilege pulling down Religious Houses turning the Inhabitants to the wide World giving their Lands and Revenues to Parliament-men and Courtiers by which rewards he gained their consent to what he designed It is sufficiently known also that he approved not of the new Doctrin that was brought in by Luther during his Reign neither would he permit such a pretended Reformation so that the whole contest during that time was only about the Supremacy of St. Peters See. But as Schism is most commonly followed with Heresie so in King Edward the 6ths time Edward the 6th the Protector who was tainted with Zwinglianism a Reform from Luther endeavored to set it up here in England and from that time the Catholic Doctrin which had been taught by our first Apostles and propagated till then begun to be rejected and accused as Erroneous Superstitious and Idolatrous and they who Professed it Persecuted But this Kings Reign being but short Queen Mary Catholic Religion begun again to bud forth under Queen Mary but that Bud being early nipped by her Death Queen Elizabeth by the advice of the new Council which she chose Queen Elizabeth and to secure her self in the Throne resolved to destroy the Catholic Interest and set up a Prelatic Protestancy which might have the face of a Church but other pretended Reformers opposed her Prelates and called their Orders Anti-christian and would needs have the Rags and Remnants of Popery as they called 'em taken away telling them that if the Word of God was to be the sole Rule of Reformation such things as were not to be found in that Rule were certainly to be rejected From that time this Nation has been variously agitated with Disputes The first pretended Reformers accused the Catholic Church with all bitterness imaginable and tho' they could not agree amongst themselves yet they set up unanimously their Crys against the Catholic Church as if she had been the Common Enemy and they were looked upon to be the best Subjects that could bring the most plausible Arguments against her Doctrins or move the Common People most to reject her Practices During this time the Pope was accused as Anti-christ the Church of Rome as the Whore of Babylon neither was there any thing committed by the Heathens worthy reprehension that was not laid to the charge of the Catholic Church so furious was their rage against the Truth But things growing calmer in King James They were more calm in K. K. Ch. the firsts time and King Charles the firsts time such Calumnies and Accusations were looked upon by the more Learned party as the effects of Passion and Moderation taught them to acknowledge the Church of Rome to be a Mother Church that Salvation was to be had in her that many of those accusations which were brought against her were but the Dreams of distracted Brains and the more moderate persons begun to look upon her with a more favorable Eye but still the aversion which the Vulgar and less knowing People had imbibed from so long continued Slanders could not be taken away and the arising Factions in the State blew up the Coals afresh and pretended this Moderation was nothing but an inclination to Popery which so frighted the Mobile that they were ready to joyn with any party that pretended to suppress such a Monster as they thought it to be from hence came Rebellions and the horrid Murder of King Charles the first After which the Prelatic Party here in England were as much run down as the Catholic and underwent a common Banishment during which they entertained a fair Correspondence the Protestant finding by Experience that Catholics were Loyal Subjects conscientious Dealers and constant Friends This fair Correspondence abroad was the cause of a no less pleasing Union after the happy Restauration of King Charles the second King Charles the second during the beginning of whose Reign Catholics were not otherwise much molested by the Governing party but only kept out of Employments till Shaftsbury and his Adherents invented a malitious Calumny laying a pretended Plot to their charge by which they put the Nation into such a Flame that Papists were become the most odious People in the World and Popery the greatest Crime But the Truth of this Sham-Plot being detected by a subsequent real one the Innocent sufferings of Catholics raised Compassion in the more moderate Church of England Men and they seemed to be willing they who had suffered so unjustly should enjoy something a greater liberty but still the Laws enacted against them being in force there were persons enough ready to put them in Execution In this posture were Affairs King James the second when it pleased God to take to himself his late Majesty No sooner was his present Majesty Ascended upon the Throne but he declared himself a Catholic to the unspeakable joy of the Catholic Church and grief of others who did not stick to affirm that they saw nothing wanting in his Majesty fitting for a King but only as they thought a better Religion At his coming to the Crown his Majesty was pleased to declare that he looked upon the Church of England as proceeding upon Loyal Principles and that he would protect her this as it might well gained the hearts of that party who little expected such a gratious Declaration from one whom they had always looked upon as a Member of the Catholic Church whose Principles they had been taught were too cruel to make use of such Lenitives and this being again Repeated at the opening of the first Parliament had so much Power upon the minds of the Loyal party that notwithstanding the conclusion of a Sermon Preached before them Dr. Sherlocs Sermon May 29. 1685. in which it was declared that an English-man might be Loyal but not a Papist that Parliament testified it's Loyalty to such a Degree as will never be forgotten and would I am confident have proceeded in the same manner had not some factious Spirits animated the Pulpits Zeal and thrown fears and jealousies into the minds of those who were bigotted in their Religion Indeed this Sermon to the House of Commons was the occasion of our following Controversies §. 9. The rise of
enjoy the Beatifical Vision till the day of Judgment yet seeing it is true and confessed by the most * Chemuitius Exam. Conc. Trid. part 3. de Invoc SS Vossius disp 2 Thes 1. Bishop Forbes commends Bishop Montagues candor in acknowledging S. Augustin to allow Invocation of Martyrs and censures Bp. Andrews for denying it Lib. de Invocat Sanctorum c. 4. n. 3. Dr. Fulk in his Rejoynder to Bristow pag. 5. Spalatensis Repub. Eccl. l. 7. c. 12. n. 25. affirms the same of St. Augustin and several others These are cited by S. C. in his answer to Dr. Pierce's Court Semon pag. 192. 198. 199. See also Thorndike cited before pag. 14. ingenuous Protestants that they also held it lawful to invocate the Saints that they not only prayed to them themselves but exhorted others to do the sam◠and this without ever giving them the least caution that their Expressions were only Rhetorical Flights it necessarily follows that Bellarmins Argument would have been of no force with them as indeed it was not with St. Augustin who tho' he durst not decide whether it was the Saints themselves who appeared sometimes at the Memorials and who heard the Prayers or the Angels for them yet made no difficulty to pray to them himself and to record the many benefits which others obtained by Praying to them as may be seen throughout his whole 22d Chapter of his 8th Book De. Civitate Dei. But it seems our Adversaries are forced to great Straits when they are constrained to catch hold of every little Argument which they think ill Managed and rather than not maintain their Novelities cast Dirt in the Face of all the Antient Fathers and accuse that Primitive Church it self whose Purity they profess to imitate and acdording to whose Doctrin they say they have Reformed not only of such gross Errors as are contrary to express Texts of Scripture but of such Ignorance that they held Opinions not only incoherent but even (a) This is one of the Protestants usual amusements to make St. Augustin quarrel with St. Augustin St. Chrysostom with St. Chrysostom c. contradictory to several other expressions in their own Writings How much more Christian like had it been for him to have imitated (b) Proinde cum apud priscos Ecclesiae Doctores legis Justorum animas vivere aut in sinu Abrabae aut in Paradisi nemore aut sub Altare Dei aut in abditis recepriculit lbique expectare suiurae gloriae praemia non statim suspiceris animas Sancterum carere divini intuitus Gleria Sed intellige eas nondum potiri perfecta consummats illa felleitate quam post corporis resurrectionem expectant Bibl. Sancta Lib. 6. Annot. 345. pag. 621.1 Sixtus Senensis whom he cites who after having related the several obscure passages of the Father affirming The Souls of the Just to remain till the day of Judgment in the shades of Paradice under the Altar of God or in hidden receptacles expecting the Future Reward of Glory tels us We must not presently imagic they intend as if the Souls enjoyed not the Beatifical Vision but only that they did not yet possess that entire Felicity which they expect after the Resurrection of the Body What if some of the Fathers believed that Saints departed were not admitted to the highest Heaven immediately upon their deceases Do's not our Lord himself tell us there are many Mansions in his Fathers House and Saint Paul that as the Stars do differ in Glory so do the Saints in Heaven We need not enquire how one may be subordinate to another as the degrees of Angels are Let us let that alone till we come thether However let Monsieur Daillè and this Gentleman take heed lest while they deny any Invocation of the Saints they stumble not upon Purgatory Certainly what ever sense may be put upon the Primitive Fathers Writings the constant practice and Tradition of the Church shews that she always believed some persons to enjoy the Beatific Vision immediately after their departure out of this life tho there remains a further complement of their Glory at the general Resurrection when Soul and Body shall be united Another piece of the like Veneration for the Antient Fathers follows §. 13. Primitive Fathers calumniated by the Defender where he accuses those of the 4th Age of departing from the practice and Tradition of the Ages before them and endeavours to prove it from the profound Silence of the Fathers of the Three first Ages from whom he challenges me to bring him any one Instance of such Intercession Had he consulted his Brethren the Centurists of Magdeburg §. 14. Prayers to Saints within the 1st 300. years he would not have made so bold a Challenge for they acknowledge that Origen who lived Anno 226. (*) The Centurists of Magdeburg Cent. 3. col 83. lin 49. alledge Origen saying O Beate Job or a pronobis miseris Prayed to Holy Job and admitted the d Invocation of Angels they affirm also that there are manifest steps of the Invocation of Saints in the Doctors of that Antient Age. Had he also consulted Cardinal Perron whom he cites he would have seen that the Fathers of the 4th Age were so far from departing from the Practice and Tradition of the Ages before them that they make mention of that foregoing practice Thus St. Gregory Nazianzen in his Sermon upon the Aniversary of St. Cyprian (a) Again Cent. 3. col 75. line 29. they say Angelos etiam Origines invocenlos putavit Hom. 1. in Ezech. I em cent 3. c. 4. col 83. line 47. Videat in Dectorum hujus saeculi scriptis non obscura vestigia invecationis Sancterum Apud Protestnat Apology Tr. 2. sect 3. subd 7. pag. 95 in margine n. 26 27 28. who flourished in the year 250 not only prays to him but relates a History how St. Justina being in danger of making Shipwrac of her Chastity by the Magical Art of St. Cyprian before he was converted to the Catholic Faith had recourse to the intercession of the Blessed Virgin Mary begging of her to assist her whose Virginity was in danger By which relation whether he was mistaken in the Cyprian he mentions or no it matters not he at least plainly shews that the practice did not arise in his time but was the common Custom of the precedent Age. What then if the few Writings of the Antients of the First 300 years which remain be silent in this particular does it follow that they approved not the practice or is there nothing now to be believed in the Church but what must be found in their Writings This indeed might be a Socinians plea but I did not think those of the Church of England as by law Established would have stood upon it when an Act of Parliament obliges them to Venerate the 4 first General Councils Stat. 1 Eliz. c. 1. so far as not to judge any matter or
been the case of St. Athanasius in whose Seat Gaudentius had been placed by the Eusebians nor that these (d) Bin. Tom. 1. Conc. p. 540. c. 1. F. Fathers acknowledged that it would be the best and most agreeable thing that Priests from all Countries should have recourse to the Head that is to the Seat of Peter the Apostle nor that it was looked upon in this Age as an (e) Socrat. l. 2. Hist c. 5. p. 244. D. c. 11. p. 246. c. 13. Epist. Julii ad Orient Episc Apud St. Athan. Apol. 2. Sozâ—m lib. 3. c. 7. p. 446. F. c. 9. Established Law that nothing was to be determined without the concurrence of the Apostolic See all which considered he will find no just reason to reject this Epistle upon the Plea that it Establishes the Popes Authority I have already mentioned that the Second General Council that of Constantinople was called by the (f) Bin. Tom. 1. Conc. p. 667. A. Popes Authority And this (a) Can. 3. Bin. Tom. 1. Conc. p. 661. B. Council ordained that the Patriarch of Consiantinople should have Prime Honor after the Bishop of Rome The Third General Council that of Ephesus (b) Bin. Tom. 2. Conc. p. 282. B. Deposed Nestorius as they say Compelled by the Sacred Canons and the Epistle of Pope Celestine and referred the more difficult case of John (c) Ibid. pag. 353. D. Patriarch of Antioch to the Pope The Fourth besides what I have already mentioned that they admitted â—he accusation brought against (d) Bin. Tom 3. Conc. p. 50. B. Dioscorus for having taken upon him to assemble a Council without the Popes Authority frequently calls Pope Leo the (e) Act. 1.2 3. passim Vniversal Bishop of the Church and affirms that our Blessed Lord had (f) Epist ad Leonem Ibid. p. 474. B. committed to him the care of his Vineyard that is his Church I will not mention any later Councils these may suffice to Protestants of the Church of England as by Law Established Seeing their Authority has been approved by (g) 1 Eliz. c. 1. Act of Parliament Neither will I go to the antient Canons of the Church but shall conclude That seeing it is manifest that ever since the Council of Nice the Bishop of Rome did exercise this Universal Pastoral care over the whole Church Excommunicating offending Bishops in other Kingdoms and Countries restoring those that had been Excommunicated unjustly to their Sees and Confirming others calling General Councils and Presiding in them and that Appeals were usually made to him in greater Causes from all Countries no beginning of which can be shewn nor no opposition made to it in those Primitive Ages but only by the Arians or other Condemned Heretics Seeing I say this is clearly matter of fact we must necessarily conclude that this Authority was looked upon at that time as given him by Divine Right and as coming down in a constant practice from the Apostles For seeing all persons in all Ages and Countries are ready to defend their Privileges and oppose usurpations had this been such or had they been exempt from such Jurisdiction they would have Unanimously opposed it in some of the succeeding General Councils after they had seen such Epistles from the Popes challenging that Authority But we find them so far from this that his plea is admitted in those very Councils and not the least Opposition made From what I have already said it will appear how easy a thing it might be to shew him in the Primitive Fathers and Councils what is given by all Catholics at present to his Holyness or challenged by him as of Necessary Faith. As to the Popes being stiled Vniversal Bishop he knows that St. Gregory the Great declined that Title in one Sense tho' he challenged it in another that is he looked not upon himself as Universal Bishop in this sense as if there were no other Bishop but he Sicut docuit Beatus Gloriesorum Apostolorum Princeps cujus Cathedram Beatitudini tuae credidit Christus optimus Pastor Bin. Tom. 3. Conc. p. 681. c. 2. D. Non enim ignorâ—s ejus ingenium qui quotidie a Sacro doctore tuo Petro doceris oves Christi per totum habitabilem mundum creditas tibi pascere non vi sed sponte coactus Ibid. P. but yet in this other as he was the Supreme visible head of Christs Church upon Earth And for the Proof of this Title besides what I have already mentioned I will send our Defender to the Epistle of the Eastern Bishops to Pope Symmachus in which they do not only acknowledge him to have been placed in the Chair of St. Peter Prince of the Apostles by Christ the chief Pastor but that all the Sheep of Christ in the whole habitable world were committed to him to Feed And in this sense I suppose it is that he was called Vniversal Bishop and Patriarch in the Council of * Bin. Tom. 3. Conc. p. 246. 250. Chalcedon That the Pope was usually stiled the Successor of St. Peter and Vicar of Jesus Christ upon Earth is so noted in Antiquity that I wonder the Defender would desire me to direct him to the places I have already shewn him some of them which I hope may suffice if his business be not to Cavil The last Authority which he says the Pope lays claim to is that all other Bishops must derive their Authority from him The terms of which Proposition are very ambiguous and therefore when our Defender has explicated his meaning more clearly and shewn that all Catholics allow it in the sense he intends I will undertake to shew him that the same Authority was acknowledged to be due to him even in the Primitive times For the Church has not innovated in this any more than in her other Doctrins The Close to the Defender Sir HAving so fully answered all the objections you have made against me or our Doctrin §. 132. and in the soregoing Articles not only vindicated what was delivered by the Bishop of Meaux as the Doctrin of the Catholic Church and Council of Trent but also shewn the consent of Antiquity for the truth of it I hope you will excuse me if I tire not my Reader by a repetition of the same in Answer to your recapitulation under the reflecting Titles of Old and new Popery I shall therefore only refer you and them to what has been said in the body of the Book and most commonly in the close of every Article for an answer to what was not particularly mentioned in your Defence where I hope I have convincingly made it appear that your Parallel is wholly grounded upon your mistake not to give it any worse title of our Doctrin You know very well Sir that I might in exchange have given you a Parallel of New and Old Protestancy if that can be called old which is not of above 150 Years standing with a
cause to be Heresy but such as have been condemned by the Authority of the Canonical Scriptures or by the first 4 General Councils and when so many of their Writers endeavor to perswade the People Bp. Jewel Dr. Pierce c. that they are ready to stand by the Fathers of the first 400 500 nay some of them 600 Years that is till the 4th General Council inclusively But it seems our Author acknowledges with Dr. Fulk and others the vanity of that Claim and therefore will only stand to the first 300 which I believe he will at last also be forced to quit for the Purer Protestant plea of Scripture alone Had this Custom of praying to Saints been only introduced in the 4th Age and been so dangerous as our Moderns endeavor to perswade the World it is certainly the succeeding General Councils would have taken notice of it or some one of the Fathers would have written against it But on the contrary we find the * Planianus post merten vivit Martyr pro nobis oret Conc Chal. Mt. 11. To. 1. Conc. p. 495. Edit Colon. 1578. 4th General Council allowing this Invocation in the 3d Person whose words are these Let Flavian be had in everlasting memory Behold Vengeance i. e. on his Murderers Behold the Truth Flavian lives after Death Let Flavian the Martyr PRAY FOR VS But that which seems to me the most extravagant is that Protestants should thus demand us to shew them some Testimonies of the Fathers of the first 300 Years who lived under Persecution whose Writings are lost and destroyed and yet reject the Fathers of the 4th Age who wrote when the Church began first to be in a flourishing condition Can any one Imagin that the Church when in Grotts and Caverns taught one thing and when she came into the Light practised another Can we think that when * Chrisost Hom. Antioch Hom. 26. in 2 Corinth c. 12. pag. 920. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 Edit Commelint 1596. St. Chrysostom tels us that the Emperor who is cloathed with Purple takes a Journy to visit these Sepulcher of St. Peter and St. Paul and laying aside his Pomp presents himself to make Supplications to them to the end that they may intercede to God for him he whose Temples are encompassed with a Diadem prays to a maker of Tents and Fishermen as his Protectors Can we I say think that this which was so publickly performed in his time even by the Emperors was not privately done in Grots before by other Christians Were our Question Whether the Saints prayed for us or no or Whether it were not lawful to beg of God to hear their Prayers for us which is all we do in our Liturgies he I suppose knows that I might furnish him with many Examples out of the Antient Liturgies and Fathers even within the first 100 Years But I know he will elude that and say he called for express Invocations of the Saints themselves Dion Arop Eccles Hierarch c. 7. § 6. pa. 355. B. To comply therefore with his desire I will not cite St. Denys the Areopagite who is express because he will not it may be allow him to be Author of that Book He will not it may be think St. Justin the Martyr to speak plain enough 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 S. Just Mart. Apol. ad Autoninum Pium lmp. non longo ab initio pa. 56. B. when making an Apology for the Christians who were accused in his time as Athiests by the Heathens because they did not Adore their Gods he tells them that we do not only Adore God and his Son Christ Jesus and the Holy Ghost who taught those things but venerate in Words and in Truth all the Army of Good Angels and those that follow him and teach this as we have been taught to others He will also it may be find an evasion for the expression of St. * Sient illa seducta est uteffugeret Deum Sic baec suasa est obedire Deo uti Virginis Evae Virgo Maria sieret Advocata Iren. lib. 5. c. 19. pag. 464. A. Irenaus in the same Age who tells us that the Virgin Mary was made an ADVOCATE for the Virgin Eve but however let him take care in his Exposition that he establish not Prayers for the Dead But I suppose he will not deny that Origen who lived Anno 226. prayed formally to his a Omnia Angelie plenasunt Veni Angele susâ—ipe sermone conversunâ— ab errore pristinos à docirina Demoniorum ab iniquitate in altum loquente suscipiens eum quasi medicus bonus coalove atque institute parvulus est hodie nascitur senex repuerascens Et suscipe tribuens ci baptismum secunde regenerationis advoca tibi alios soclos ministerii tui ut cuncti pariter cos qui aliquando decepti sunt erudiatis ad sidem c. Orig. Hom. 1. in Ezech. scl 133. b. circa med lit E. 2. Angel Guardian to receive him then converted from his former Errors and the Doctrin of Devils to comfort and strengthen him like a Good Physician and to call together the rest of his Companions in that Ministry that all of them together might instruct those in the Faith who had been deceived I hope he will not deny that he begged of Holy b O Beate Job vivens in perpetâ—um aâ—ud Deum victâ—r permanens in conspeciou Regis Demini Ora pro nobis miseris Vt etiam nos terribilis Dei misericordia protegat in omnibus tribulationibus eripiat ab omnibus oppressionibus maligni Et connumeret nos cum justis Et conscribat nos cum his qui salvi siunt Et requiesccre nos faciat cum illis in regno suo ubi perpesuo cum sonitis illis magnificemus illum Idem lib. 2. Job in fine Tom. 2. fol. 33. a. c. Job to pray for him That he made his Addresses to c Incipiam me genibus prosternere deprecari universos Sanctos ut mihs non audenti petere Deum propter nimietatem peccati succurrant O Sancti Dei vos lachrymis sleru pleno dolore deprecor ut procidatis misericordils ejus pro me misero Idem in Lamento Tom. 2. fol. 158. b. init all the Saints in general and particularly to d Hei mihi Pater Abraham deprecare pro me ne de Simbus tuhaliener Ibid. circa finem pag. 159. b. Abraham in the midst of his sorrow and lamentation for his sins Neither will he I suppose deny e Salvein â—lernum indesinens nostra laeutia Dei Genitrix virgo ad te enim rursus accurrimus Tu festi nostri principium in mdeium tu finâ— pretiosissima regni margarita Tu verè omnis saorificis pinguedo â— tu animatum panis istius vitae altare Salve amoris Dei Patris Thesaure salve silii erga geuus humanum fons propensionis salve Sancti spiritus mens inumbrate Prepterea te