counsell and of my will see that you doe giue all men entrance into the Church that are desirous to come in for if I shall vnderstande that any man that desireth to be made partaker of the Church shall eyther be let by you or forbidden to enter in I will immediately sende one of mine that by my commaundement shall remooue you from your Sea and giue your place vnto another Note that hee saieth I will sende not the Bishoppe of Rome his officer but one of mine owne men who shall displace you and place another therein not by commaundement of the counsell or Bishoppe of Rome but by my commaundement The like also writes Socrates he threatned vnto Alexander the Bishoppe of Constantinople if he woulde not receiue Arrius into the Church But you will say that the Emperour iniuried both Athanasius and Alexander I denie not that but although Theodoretus doth blame his ouermuch light credulitie and doth excuse it by the like in Dauid against Miphiboseth yet doth neyther hee nor any other ancient author accuse him of tyranny for medling with matters that he had nothing to do withall or punishing of them ouer whom he had no lawfull iurisdiction and also doth refute that you affirme that Constantine refused to iudge Bishoppes Nowe to returne againe to the history the same Socrates doth say that when the Arrians had accused Athanasius Macarius and other of their complices vnto the Emperour of foule factes Constantine wrote vnto his sisters sonne Dâ—linatius who was then abiding at Antioch 500 miles from Alexandria to call the parties before him and to punish them that he shoulde finde faultie But afterwarde because the Bishoppes were assembled at Tyrus about the dedication of his newe Church at Hierusalem he referred ouer the hearing of those matters vnto them So that at the first he had committed both the triall and the punishment of the greatest Bishoppe of all the East Church vnto a temporall officer of his the which fact and the other which I haue before rehearsed doe plainly proue that Constantine did not account nor acknowledge his Empyre or him selfe empaired or of lesse commaund by accepting of the Christian religion but that he still executed his princely prerogatiue on all persons both spirituall temporall and still clamed to be the minister immediate of God not any vnder officer of the Bishops of Rome Gods vicar on earth rightly to for as Paul saith 1. Tim. 6. Let all bondmen whatsoeuer they be that be vnder yoke repute their lords worthy of al honor lest the name of the lord his doctrine be blasphemed but they which haue beleeuing Lords let them not coÌ„temne them because they bee their brethren but rather serue them because they bee beleeuers and belooued who are pertakers of the benefite Teach these thinges and exhort them If any man teach otherwise and doth not yeeld vnto the â—ound speaches of our Lord Iesus Christ and that doctrine which is agreeable to godlinesse is proud knoweth nothing is mindesicke of questions quarrelles about wordes So also might it haue been saide Ye Popes Byshoppes account your princes worthie of all honour least the name and doctrine of Christ be euill spoken of but ye Byshoppes that haue Christian Kinges contemne them not because they be Christians but be the more obedient and dutifull vnto them because they haue embraced Chrst and are pertakers of his benefit This teach and exhorte but whosoeuer teacheth otherwise teacheth contrary doctrine to Christ is a proude prelate and quite voide of knowledge And as Peter writeth 1 Epistle 3. Ye bondmen bee subiect in all feare vnto your Lordes not onely vnto them that are good and moderate but also vnto them that are waywarde and vnreasonable for this is grace or worthie of fauour if a man doe beare sorrowes for conscience of GOD suffering vniustly So also might it haue beene rightly saide vnto the Popes and Byshoppes in Constantines time and now also be ye subiecte in all feare vnto your Princes not onely vnto such as are good and gratious but also vnto vngodly and tyrannicall neyther release your selues of your alleagence for if yee doe take and beare wrong quietly for regarde of GOD God will abundadtly rewarde your patience for the consequent is very strong and good seeing the thinges are all together alike and equall for if the Christian bondmen were not enfranchised because they were spirituall brothers vnto their Lordes neyther were the Popes and Byshoppes discharged of subiection vnto their Princes because they were become their spirituall bretheren and if you will to their spirituall fathers But they say with Phiglâ—ius that Christ coÌ„mitted the gouernement of his Church vnto Peter What prince Peter was and his successors and therefore all Kinges that are of the Church are subiect vnto the Byshoppes of Rome And if we grant this can there bee ought else inferred then subiection in causes and censures ecclesiasticall and not in causes and punishmentes secular and temporall for what fonde Frenchman will say that because in olde time the Kinges of England were vassals vnto the French Kinges for the Duchies of Normandy and Guien that therefore the crowne of Englande was subiect vnto the Kinges of France or that they coulde commande the Kinges of England in any matter touching their crowne of England or because the Byshoppes Chanceller can excommunicate a man for adultery that therefore he can also depriue a man of life and liuing Mat. 20 for a greater fault Moreouer did not Christ plainelye enough declare what kinde of Kingdome he gaue to Peter and the rest of the Apostles and how vnkingely kinges they shoulde bee when they contended among themselues who should be greatest The kinges of nations saide he be Lordes ouer those countries and their princer haue power ouer them but so it is not in you doth he not here in plaine wordes take from them all earthlye and bodily Empire and power and that too from the greatest of them So that the Pope that claimeth to bee greatest and chiefest is also hereby excluded neyther will a shifte of humilitie serue to escape seeing that to depose Princes is to raigne ouer nations is to be their Lord is to haue power ouer them all which thinges Christ saith the greatest of his Apostles his successors should not haue nor consequently authoritie to release all subiectes of their allegiance the which is a supreeme point of Earthly Empire the which neuer any mortall man yet had and onely belongeth vnto the great God the supreeme Lord and soueraigne of the whole world for neuer yet was there any so mightie a monarch that had all the world vnder his Empire neither then could his authoritie extend ouer all nations but his power determined within the bonds of his owne Empire could not stretch beyonde his owne vassals among whom only he might decree in what cases their seignories should be forfeated and their bondmen be enfranchised of
although he write very directly against the Pope popery yet in many respects doth he shew himself a papist as in following of corrupt translations in the places of scripture which he alledgeth in misapplying many of them contrary to the true sense meaning of the holy Ghost wherein although some warniâ—g is giuen by a few marginall notes added of purpose and signed witâ— this letter yet cannot the godly reader for all that be too wearie and circumspect in the particular consideration of the same Faults escaped Pag. 2. for euery read euery Pag. 3. for iu read ni Pa. 4. for Iunius read Fumus Pag 7. for 〈…〉 A COVRTEOVS conference with the English Catholicks Romane about the six Articles ministred vnto the Seminarie priestes wherein it is apparantly proued by their owne diuinitie and the principles of their owne religiâ—n that the Pope cannot deposâ— her Maiesty or releaâ—e her subiects of their Allegiance vnto her NOw then to proue my first proposition that the Pope and all the Bishoppes and Priestes are subiect by the law of God vnto the temporall magistrâ—te All persons subiect to the temporal magistrat in whose realme and dominions they doe dwell thus I prooue Salomon Prou. 24. saith my sonne feare the Lord and King and intermeddle not or be not among detractors for their distruction wil arise sodainly and who knoweth the ruine of them both Likewise Saint Paul the Apostle in his writing to the Romaines thus exhorteth or rather commandeth them Chap. 13. Let euery soule be subiect to the higher power for there is noe power but from God but those which are were ordained by God c. So then he that resisteth the power resisteth the ordinance of God but they which doe resist do get themselues daÌ„nation for princes be no feare of good worke but of il but wilt thou not feare the power doe well and then shalt thou haue praise thereby for he is the minister of God vnto thee to good but if thou haue done ill then feare for he beareth not the sword without cause he is the minister of God a reuenger in wrath to him that doth ill And therfore ye must needes be subiect not onely for wrath but also for conscience for therefore doe yea also pay tribute for they are the ministers of God seruing for this very purpose Also in his epistle to Titus Cap. 3. he writes warne them to be subiect to principalities powers to obey their commandements Moreouer S. Petâ—r from whom the Pope clameth his moâ—arcâ—â— thus writeth in his first vniuersall epistle Cap. 2. Be ye â—ub ect to euery humain creature for the Lord whether it be 〈…〉 most excellent or vnto the presidents as sent 〈◊〉 him to the reuenge of euil deedes but to the praise of 〈◊〉 good because so is the will of God that ye doing well â—ay make mâ—re the ignorance of the vnskilfull as free men 〈…〉 as men that haue libertie for a cloake of naughtinesse but aâ— the bondmen of God and anone after feare God and honour the King Ye do see how the old and new law doe agree in the supreeme authoritie of princes ouer all persons borne or abiding within their dominions Paul vsing this vniuersall euery excepting none and Salomon and Peter an indefinite in this place equall vnto an vniuersall And Peter and Paul doe in expresse wordes giue vnto him the supreeme Empâ—re of administring iustice in punishing the wicked rewarding the good and that he is so the Apostle doth proue by that â—ll men pay him tribute the which also he commandeth to be paide and also chargeth all men to be obedient vnto him and not for feare onely lest otherwise the prince would make them smart but also for coÌ„science sake because theâ— are in duety bound so to do for that God had ordained them to be his lieuetenants in gouernement And therefore if they were not obedient vnto them they must needs be accounted reputed for rebels vnto God that would not accept him for their soueraigne whom God had set ouer them And Peter to suppres the carnal cogitation of the Iewes vnto whom he wrot that thought that the messias had enfranchised them by his redeÌ„ption from al subiection to man also to preueÌ„t the proud opinion of the clergy that should come after who would clame exemption from earthly subiection because they were appointed ordained dispensers of the misteries of the Messias he flatly affirmeth the claming of such libertie to be nothing else put a plaine pretence cloake for their naughtinesse For he would they shoulde remeÌ„ber that although they were deliuered by Christ from the bondage tiranny of sin death the Deuill yet they remained still his his fathers bondmen therfore ought duetifully to obey still the ciuill magistrats whom God hath placed in his owne throne his king his lieuetenant ouer them And therefore Salomon in the place afore alleadged An appellation in secular causes cannot be made to the Pope ioyneth them together saying feare God and the King God principally saith Lyra writing on that place and secundarily the King who is his Vicar in temporall things This being so I cannot chuse but much maruaile at that saying in Cap. Licet de sor comp that an appellation may be made from all princes temporall Yea such as do acknowledge no superiour in temporalities when none other can be had and the matter is of som weight For if as Tertullian saith in his Apologie that there is no man aboue the Emperour et quem soli Deo subiicio and whome I make vnder none but God in annother place of the same Apologie he saith of the Emperours of Rome in Dei solius potestate sunt a quo sunt secundi post quem primi ante omnes et super omnes deos quid in cum super omnes homines they are vnder God only vnto whom they are seconde after whom they are first before all men and aboue all gods and why not seeing they are aboue all men And againe if it be true that the graue and learned light of our Lawiers Bracton that liued almost foure hundreth yeares agoe in the raigne of Henry the thirde doth affirme in the beginning of his booke that a King cannot be a King if he haue any superiour in those things that doe appertaine vnto his crowne and kingdome and may not haue in his kingdome any equall much lesse any superiour especially in administration of iustice that it may be saide of him Great is our Lorde greate is his power c. And that he doth affâ—irme him to be the vicar of God on earth This place Psal 14â— 5 〈…〉 oâ—â—od I can not see by what right or reason an appellation in a secular cause can be made from an Emperour King or any supreame temporall magistrate vnto the Pope seeing he is not theire superiour in temporalities For all the worlde knoweth that an
the temple because hee offred incense but because the wraith of GOD had made him a leper the which kinde of men by the expresse commaundement of GOD might not conuerse with other And if wee will receiue the report and assertion of Iosephus a learned Priest and historian of the Iewes the priestes did not thrust him out of the temple but admonished him to depart the which hee did soone obey when he saw himselfe made so loathsome on a sodaine was astonied with the manifest wraith of God and hereunto the text seameth to assent which saith and hastily they expelled him c. But he himselfe also made hast to goe out because he had presently felt the plague or strooke of God But that he was as some seeme to say deposed of his Kingdome therefore we doe reade neither in the scriptures nor in Iosephus But onely this saith Paralyp So King Ozias was a leeper euen to his dying day and dwelt in an house by himselfe because he was full of leprosie for the which he had beene cast out of the house of the Lord Furthermore Ioathan his sonne gouerned the kings house and iudged the people of the land And almost the same words wee reade in the booke of the kings Soe that by the wordes of the text it doth not appeare that he was either deposed or did giue vp the Kingdom but onely abandoned al resort by reason of his contagious sicknesse and ignominy gaue vp the maneging of matters of state and the princely port vnto his sonne and so accordingly whosoeuer doth marke diligently the supputiaton of yeares which the booke of the Kings maketh shall manifestly see that he reckoneth Ozias his raigne euen vntill his dying day Neither if that Ozias had beene deposed because of his leprosy would it soe much further theire cause as they faine in saying that heresy is inward leprosy then Idolatry is And yet can they not finde that euer any King of the Iewes was deposed by the high Priest for Idolatry nor any Christian prince by the Pope for any cause for the space of seauen hundreth yeares after Christ although those times yeelded many vngodly Princes as we haue shewed you before of Emperours one flatly fallen from the faith vnto Paganisme sundry Arrians some Monothlets and Eutiches and many cruell persecutors of the Catholickes And so likewise many of the Ostrogothes in Italy were Arrians and many moe in the same prouince of the Lombard kinges And yet a farre longer race of the Westgotish Kings in Spaine But if any man will rubbe his face and say that the Byshoppes of Rome in those ages eyther had not so much knowledge in the worde of GOD or else so greate zeale as there successors since all men that shall heare them will shoute at them They write that when Nero whipped Senatoures executed noble men spoyled Citizens wasted prouinces without cause or colour and finally in all things made his lust law he triumphing at this iolitie boasted that neuer any man before him did know what an Emperour might doe Act. 5. Certes the holy and learned fathers in ancient time knew not this diuinitie that when there princes wrongfully oppressed them they should straightway cast off their yoke but rather patiently beare whatsoeuer ill should be inflicted on them for Gods cause Mat. 5. They remembred that the Apostles from whom they set their light and learning being whipped at a conuocation of the Iewish Pristes and Elders went away reioycing because they were counted worthie to suffer reproach for the name of Iesus Athanatius in epla 2. ad vlit vit Agent They had not forgotten the saying of their Sauiour Mat. 5. Blessed are they that suffer persecution for righteousnesse for theires is the Kingdome of heauen Ye are blessed when men shall curse you and persecute you and lying shall say all manner of euill against you for me Reioyce and be glad because your reward in heauen is abundant for so they persecuted the Prophets that were before you When Constantius the wicked Emperour vrged Hosius the holy Byshoppe of Cordula the Byshoppe of Rome his deputy and the three hundreth Byshoppes assembled at Saâ—dica with bitter banishment as he had alreadie serued many of there colledges vnlesse they would subscribe to the wicked errour of Arrius they all refused to doe it but they did not menace the Emperour with deposition if hee woulde not relinquish his false faith and reuoke the godly banished Byshoppes bur contrariwise confessed vnto him Non nobâ—s fas est imperium in teâ—riis tenere it is not lawfull for vs to holde Empire on the earth And not withstanding all his hurtfull wickednesse yet they affirmed that he that should cast but a malignant eye at his Empire did resist the ordinance of God so farre were they from thinking that his subiectes might openly take armes against him Don Iohn De Austria in his warres in the low Cuntries Don Iohns ensignes bare in his ensigne a deuise of a crosse with this word In hoc signo viciÌ„ Turcos in h c signo vincam hereticos with this signe I ouercame the Turkes with this signe I will vanquish the heretikes so if the latter Popes had saide with this vertue and weapon of patience our ancestors ouercame the heathen and heriticall Emperours and with the same we will ouercome the Emperours that will intrude vppon our temporalities perhappes their state had not bene now so staggering for whosoeuer shall marke the course of the history of the Church of God shall finde that it hath growen greate by patience but hath rather decreased then encreased by armes and violence Moreouer if the Popes will vouchsafe to reade their old recordes they shall see and vnderstande that such of their predecessors as armed themselues with patience and vsed none other but the spirituall sword and that also sparingly and seldome were had of all men in greater reputation and reuerence and could doe more in the world then their successors that after the spirituall sword which Christ had deliuered vnto them sharpe and dreadfull to be vsed onelie in extremitie but in his cause quarell had through there continuall abusing and drawing at euery light priuate braule became so hagled blunt and contemptible that euery boy laught at it did furiously fall to catching of the secular sworde out of the temporall magistrates hand Like as they report of Iulius the seconde whether meerely deuised or done in deede I saith Ferou know not that when he went in person into the fielde against the French armed with a paire of keyes in his hande and a sworde by his side hee threw his keyes into the riuer of Tiber and therewith all drawing his sworde saide seeing Peters keyes haue done noe good Paules sworde shall helpe mee And surely therein the Pope fared like Ioakin the King of Iuda who trusted in a rotten reede the king of Egypt to defende him against the Assyrian And so they incurred
London are an hunded times more hotte to haue one hanged that hath slaine the basest Yeoman of theires then another that hath murdered his maister or the best noble man within the land Iames the fourth the Scottish King flew his father in the feilde and had noething said vnto him therefore but was excommunicated for aiding of his auncient Alie the french King whome the Pope loued not neither could his lamentable losse of life in that quarrel quench the Popes Choler but that he persecuted him when he was deade long time denyning his deade body buriall but yet that is noe sinne against the holy ghost for to aide on denounced a scismatike by the Pope nor to beare armes against the captaine of a croysy it doth appeare by that we doe reade in Mariners his historie of Spayne when Peter the king of Aragon comming to ayde the Earle of Tolouse and the Albigenses against whom the Pope had sent a croysy was slaine in battell by the Earle of Monsfort generall of the Croysy and that he would not deliuer Iames the sonne of Peter who was brought vp with him and shoulde haue maried his daughter but for this mischance vnlesse he would sweare that he would not reuenge his fathers death the Pope vpon complaint forced Monsfort by sharpe censures of excommunication to set him at libertie without any such promise that the Pope it was Iuno Centius the third might shew that he was annother God that woulde haue mercy where he woulde and be mercifull to whome it pleased him and that he doth nothing of desert but all motu proprio as they vse to say but yet perhappes he shewed grace vnto Iames for his fathers Peters sake who had purchased before hand his pardon for dying in the feilde in the succour of a scismaticke and heretike by being crowned at Rome by the Pope with a crowne made of singing breade or wafers and by graunting vnto the Pope the right to present vnto all ecclesiasticall lyuings But to returne againe to the deposing of Princes Iohn King Iohn the king of this land bereft both of kingdome and life Arthur his elder brothers sonne who had bene ordained and proclamed here apparant by common consent and kept his Sister with duble iniury in perpetuall prison and escaped scotfree at the Popes handes but when he would not accept for Archbishoppe Simon Langton a Cardinall of the Church of Rome aduanced to that office through the Popes extraordinary dealing hee had his whole realme interdicted which sustained no harme for accepting him for King against right and also himselfe was deposed therefore And what reason was there but that the King might aswell maintaine for Archbyshoppe the Byshoppe of Norwich the faithfull president of his counsell and a man whom the Pope coulde not iustly mislike being first chosen at Ganterburye by the Prior almost the whole couent as the Pope Simon Langton his Cardinall chosen after the other at Rome by a few of the couent that I may omitte that noe Byshop could euer be chosen in this realm without the Kings licence nor being chosen counted Byshoppe before the King had confirmed him And if the Pope said that the couent chose Norwitch at Canterbury for feare of the King because they had first elected their superior might not the King as truely say that they chose Langton at Rome for feare of the Pope for did he not force them to a new election yea threatned them who were afraid of the kings displeasure if they chose not Langton if Langton was an ill man why was the Pope so importunate to haue him Archbyshop if he were a good man why did that Pope shortly after himselfe excommunicate him what bare rule here but flesh bloud Did Langton so farre passe Norwich that hee would do more good to the Church of England then Norwich could do if he were placed Archbishoppe then the ceasing of all publicke seruice of God administration of the sacred Sacraments for the space of six years for so long the interdict lasteth thoughout the whole land could do harme how many soules may a mā probably think were lost through this long irreligiousnes which otherwise might haue bene saued I omit the great murdering of priests the banishing of Byshoppes the rasing of Abbes Churches Chappels the manifould miseries massacres wasts that I know not whether this more wilful or wofull interdict brought vnto this whol land But ye wil say that before the land was interdicted the king had driuen out of the land the monks of Canterbury seased on al their land goods And afterward did the like to the Byshops that published the interdict And also turned out of al such of the religious spiritual persōs as did fauour the Popes procedings all this before he was deposed by the Pope But yet all these mischieues proceeded of the Popes indirect dealing to make his Cardinall Archbyshop and if the Pope woulde haue relinquished that action the king had soon bene appeased And can any indifferent man thing that the king had not iust cause to bee displeased with the Couent of Canterbury who first chose scecretly in the night without his congedelier there Superior Archbishoppe and also priuilye sent him to Rome without the kings notice to be confirmed of the Pope and then misliking of their owne doings elected with the Kings licence his fauourite Norwich whom they afterward reiected without the kinges licence chose at Rome Langton one whom the King knew not And did not the Pope offer the King such a wrong as hath bene done neuer before nor since that time to cause the couent to choose a Byshoppe without the Kinges congedelier that to at Rome by a few of the couent sent thither in messages without their Pryor And if ye doe thinke the king dealt rigourously in banishing the Byshoppes that interdicted the land and in ceasing on their goodes that fauoured the Popes actions How can you excuse the Popes cruelty in interdicting the whole land whereof one halfe did take his part And faine would I know of you whether it proceded of charitie that the Pope woulde not release his interdict and censures when the King offred to receiue Langton See Mathew of Paris restore the banished men and fully to satisfy all men for theire losses vnlesse he would also become his vassall and make his realmes of England and Ireland tributarie for euer vnto the see of Rome was this charitie or couetousnes and ambition And againe came this of Charitie that the Pope who stoode so stiffe for the restitution of the losses of the clergie before the king had subiected himselfe and his Realmes vnto him did after that his owne turne was serued force the Byshoppes to take halfe their due and the rest of the clergie to beare their owne damages without one penny of recompence And yet see more partialitie in this Pope First he excommunicated deposed the king
in al thinges touching the royaltie of the same Crowne shoulde be submitted to the sea of Rome We doe also reade there that all the Barons and all the Byshoppes present and the deputies of those which were absent being asked euery man seuerally saide that therein they would to their vttermost stand with the King against the Pope so zealous were all good Englishmen in those daies of the auncient honour and libertie of their country and the soueraignetie of their King Moreouer Saint Germanye in the xxxix Chapter of the second booke entreating how ecclesiasticall persons may dispose of their goodes he vtterly reiecteth the Canon law therein and sheweth what they may doe by the lawes of this Realme and at the length he saith thus And moreouer a parson of a Church vicar Chauntery priest or such other all such goods as they haue by reason of the parsonage vicarage or Chauntery as that they haue by reason of their owne person they may lawfully giue and bequeth after the common law And if they dispose part among their parishoners and part to the building of Churches or giue part to the ordinary or to poore men or in any such manner as is appoynted by the law of the Church they offend not therein vnlesse they thinke thēselues bound thereunto by duety authoritie of the law of the Church not regarding the Kings lawes For if they doe so it seemeth they resist the ordinance of God which hath giuen power to princes to make lawes But whereas the Pope hath soueraignety in temporall things as he hath in spirituall thinges there some say that the goods of priests must in conscience be disposed as it is contained in the same summe But it holdeth not in this Realme for the goodes of spirituall men bee temporall in what manner soeuer they come to them and must be ordered by the temporall law as the goodes of temporall men must be Thus farre Sainte Germany then may I inferre if that the Pope the counsell and thee conuocation can not make a Lawe touching the goodes of the spirituallty within this Realme and that those which doe dispose of their goodes according to such a Canon doe sinne although it doe agree with the law of this Realme if they did it as bounde by that Canon shall wee thinke that the Pope the councell or the conuocation can giue away the goodes and landes of temporall men within this Realme yea and the Crowne and kingdome and that they doe not sinne mortally that doe obey any such decrees And what account is to bee made of the Popes dispensation in temporall causes the same learned author plainely declareth in the xli Chapter of the seconde booke where hee saith That although by the Canon law euery man may lawfully kill an Assasin such a fellow as will at euery mans request kill any man for money yet he affirmeth it is altogether vnlawfull in this land and that notwithstanding the Popes dispensation and pardon he that slayeth an Assasin is a fellon and so ought to bee punished as a fellon Moreouer in his xliiii Chapter hee doth conctantly holde that the Canon summes that do determine all scruples of conscience according to the Canon law doe rather hurt English mens consciences then giue them light and that there bee many cases in them ruled according to the Canon law that are not to bee obserued in this Realme neyther in law nor conscience And in xlii Chapter that although many sayings in the same summes doe agree with the lawes of this Realme yet they are to be obserued by the authoritie of the Lawes of this Realme and not by the authoritie alleaged by them Finally in the xxix Chapter of the same booke hee doth flatly ouerrule our present case whereas by the Canon Law an heretike hath ipso facto lost all his goodes and therefore can make noe execution he affirmeth that it holdeth and bindeth not here for if he doe abiure hee hath forfeited noe goods but if hee be conuicted of heresie and deliuered to laye mens handes he hath forfeyted all his goodes that he hath at that time that he was deliuered vnto them but not his landes before that he be put to death To this the Doctor answereth me thinketh that as it onely belongeth vnto the Church to determine heresies that so it belongeth vnto the Church what punishmēt he shal haue for his heresie except death which they can not be iudges in but if the Church decree that therfore he shall forfeite his goods me thinkes that they be forfeyted by that decree vnto this obiection he thus answered vnder the name of student Nay verely for they be tēporall things and belong to the iudgement of the kings court And I thinke that the ordinarie might haue set no fine vpon one impeached of heresie vntill it was ordained by the statute of Henry the fourth that he may set a fine if hee see cause and that the king shall haue that fine If this were the vniuersall beliefe of all good Englishmen in the time when the Popes authoritie most flourished heere and before this controuersie arose that neither the Pope nor counsell nor Church hath authoritie to ordaine any temporall punishment for heresy can he be accounted a true Englishman that doth holde that the Pope can depriue her maiestie of her crowne and dignitie for a pretence of heresy Of the counsell of Laterane or that the Canon made in the counsell held at Laterane doth binde vs heere in England But because we vnderstand that the greatest scruple in conscience of our Catholickes Romane is grounded vpon this Canon we will make a particular treatise thereof and to vncomber and discharge their consciences shew first that it is no determination of faith that the Pope may depose princes and secondly that it doth not binde in this realme not onely because as I haue proued before the Church can make no decree of temporalities but also because by the verie Canon Lawe it neither is nor euer was in force within this realme and finally neither orderly executed according to the order of the Canon And first because I shall haue occasion to examine euerie worde of one member thereof I will set it downe verbatim worde for worde Ca. 33◠Si ver◠dominus temporalis requisitus admonitus ab ecclesia terram suam purgare neglexerit ab hac haeretica foeditate per Metropolitanum comprouinciales episcapos excommunicationis vinculo innodetur etsi satisfacer◠contempserit intra annum significetur hoc summo pontifici Romano vt extunc ipse vasallos ab eius fidelitate denuntiet absolutos terram exponat Catholicis occupandam qui cam exterminatis haereticis sine contradictone possideant in fidei puritate conseruent ita quod bona huiusmodi damnatorum si laici fuerint confiscentur si vero clereci applicentur ecclesijs a quibus stipendia per ceperint Which may thus be englished If the temporall Lord beeing requested
famous Cardinall Taietanâ— that doth hold and maintaine that the Pope cannot erre in the definition of faith yet doth affirme in his commentaries vpon Mathew that he may erre in iudgement whether a thing be lawfull or noe And therefore he doth not accept the deâ—rees of the Pope in his controuersie of diuotee for definitiue of faith but for iudiciall And in iudgementes the Popes themselues saith he doe confesse that they haue erred and so then may also a generall counsell erre in iudgements by your owne rules if perhaps any iudgement be to be founde of the counsell of the Laterane against Raimond the Earle of Tolouse for not purging his country of the Albigenses Canons of counsels binde not but where they are receiued Nowe this first scruple beeing taken away let vs descend vnto our next article and conclusion that the Canon doth not binde vs in this realme who is so ignorant that knoweth not that all decrees and Canons of generall counsels are not obserued and kept in euerie country neyther doe thy binde the breakers of them in conscience As for example there was a decree made by the counsell at Nice that deacons shall not sit aboue priestes but yet we doe see at Rome the Deacon Cardinalles doe sitte aboue Bishoppes that be no Cardinalles Likewise in Sexto Constantinapolitano in Trullo there is forbidden kneeling in praier on the Sundayes and soe likewise all the time betweene Easter and Whitsontide And also that no man shall fast the Saturnedaies in Lent but the quite contrarie of both Canons was most vsuall in this lande and thought most deuoute when the Pope was in his highest prime heere Moreouer it is the common opinion of all the Canonistes that the decrees and Canons reformatiue doe not else where binde but where they haue beene receiued and therefore our seminary priestes doe holde that the Catholickes Romane of this Realme nor yet those in France be not bounde to obserue the Canons of the late counsell at Trent because they haue beene publikly receiued in neyther of the kingdomes This then beeing soe if I can prooue that this Canon of deposing of princes was neuer receiued in this Realme then haue I conuinced that it doth binde no man of this Realme in conscience And this will I first prooue by circumstance of the time and secondly because diuers other 〈◊〉 for downe in the same counsell were neuer obserued 〈◊〉 as for this Canon The Canon neuer receiued proued by circumstance of time it neuer came in practise heare â—ntill Kinge Henrie the eyght First it is certaine that the counsell at Laterane was helde in Anno Domini 1215. and in the seuenth yeare of the raigne of Kinge Ioâ—n and in the time of the bloodie broyles of the Barons against the kinge it can not bee denyed but that the kinge had three Embassadours there and likelie enough it is that they subscribed and consented as the rest of the Embassadours did for their master sought all the meanes he coulde to please the Pope that hee might haue his helpe against the Barons and so indeede hee stoode his fast friende and at the counsell accursed the Barons suspended the Archbishoppe of Canterburie Stephan Langâ—â—â— for taking parte with them and for the same quarrell would not allowe his brother Simon Elected Archbishoppe of yorke so that there is no doubte but the greatest parte of the realme were as readie to displease the Pope as their prince was to please him for the chiefest cause that moued the king to sende Embassadours vnto the counsell was saith Mathews of Paris to procure the Popes curse against the Barons These wofull warres continued to the death of kinge Iohn soe that no parliament was or coulde be helde whereby this Canon could be receiued For if Sir Thomas More in his debellation doth truely say that kinge Iohn coulde not make his kingdome tributarie to the Pope without the consente of the parliament much lesse coulde he giue the Pope authority to giue the realme away God knowes to whom it should please him or that Christian that was able to winne it by fine force for according to the rule of the Canon Lawe Quod omnes tangit ab omnibus debet approbari that which toucheth all men ought to be allowed and approued and confirmed by all wherefore the Lord chiefe Iustice in the first yeare of the raigne of Henry the seuenth as we doo reade in the reportes of the same yeare Termino Hillarii Chap. 10. affirmed that all the Barrons vnto the Pope that after a sorte commaunded Edwarde the first to surcease from warring on the Scottes that helde of him That although the king woulde giue away the right he had to Scotlands yet for all that it shoulde not be soe because that hee that is king of England is alwaies chiefe Lorde of Scotland And if the king of this Realme cannot of himselfe dispose of a thing annexed and incorporated to the crowne of this kingdome will any wise man be of opinion that king Iohn coulde dispose of the crowne of England of himselfe without the assent and consent of the states and ordaine forfeytures thereof to forreyners and strangers And although I can easily be perswaded that the subiectes for the extreame hatred that they bare vnto their present prince The iniquitie of the Canon woulde lightly be wonne to accept of causes to be discharged of their alleageanc to their king yet can I hardly be induced to beleeue that they coulde suffer themselues their wiues and children landes and liuinges goods and country to be exposed to the sacke and spoyle of all their neighbours yea of all Christendome if they shoulde vnhappily happe to haue a wicked king And also well might they satisfie the will and intent of the counsell without any such pernicious perill of there whole state and also retaine still their ancient honour and liberty if they themselues did make choise of the Physition that should purge them if that the law of God had not vtterly forbidden theÌ„ to rebell froÌ„ their prince were he neuer so wicked and not foolishly bind themselues to take a purgation of they know not whom perhaps vnhappily of such a one 〈◊〉 â—â—te likely to purge them of ill humors so extreamely that he would destroy the habit of their bodye And hereof â—o saide an example they neded not to seeke far For as the very same instant they had a very plaine proofe thereof in France where the earle of Tolowse was depriued of his earledome because he would not purge his dominions of the Albigenses and the earledome giuen by the Pope vnto Simon the Earle of Monssort For that I may omit how bloudily Monssort executed the Popes mandate being generall of the Croysy against the Albigenses in sacking the Cities murdering the men and women how he did also vnder that pretence assaulte sacke cityes that were not one whit infected with that sect and slew in one battell twentie thousand
of the people and their Alies After he was created earle by the Pope and counsell and inuested therein by the French King and al the whole country had embraced him for their prince he cruelly coÌ„manded the citizens of Carcassane Towlose Narbon to dismantell their walles to fill vp their ditches This to doe saith Paulus Aemilius mine author also in the rest of this history they thought to be a wretched â—e pitifull thing yet they executed his coÌ„mandement cursing the head of Simon they begin with their owne hands to make their country naked of hir wals they theÌ„selues making theÌ„selues subiect vnto all iniury Nether did that seme to be the greatest of their euils for Simon both because his purse was well emptied through the charges of the warres and also then he might throughly â—ame them being afflicted with miseries and manyfould mischiefes sendeth about collectors and coactors to leuie a mightie masse of money of the country It is strange that nature hath so ordained that euery mans priuate damages doe moue him more then the publicke sorrowe neyther can their be any sharper weapon found then that of money They which at his commandement ouerthrew their country could not endure the losse of their purse So that the warre that was saide pâ—â—â—â—ched to haue bene taken in hand kept for godes cause and might haue bene ended by sparing of them that had yeldeâ— and by desseÌ„bling of things past was made now more hard to be ended through vnmercifull dealing Dores were broken open distresses were taken sighing shriking sorrowing weping wailing of men women were harde in euery house At length sorrow being turned into anger the olde Earle being then in hope of alteration had returned out of Spaine whither he fled after his discomfiture in battell was receiued of the Cyty of Tolouse and other Cyties there aboutes the byshoppes whom Simon had restored were driuen out againe because the multitude thought them to fauour him Then Aemilius seemeth to exclame against the wickednesse of this Canon in giuing principalities to strangers and sheweth how hurtfull it is to gods cause for the aduancement whereof it is supposed to be made thus saying Nihil in sacris bellis perinde obfuit atque mos iam exortus vt honesta proscriptione suas quisque respiciat res in ore omnium sanctuÌ„ piumque versetur consilio conatu animo secus afficiantur Sâ— de religione tantum agaetur si obliuio noxae sanciatur si sanatis mentibus fortunis hominum abstineatur omnes idem sentiant nuÌ„c de mortalium iure de comitatures est ea controuersia tollatur nulla erit armorum causa c. Nothing hath done so much hurt in the sacred warres as a custome that is now come vp that euery man doth by honest prescription regard and respect his owne that in all their mouthes is hearde holy and godly but in drift doings and in hearte they are otherwise affected If the matter be onely for religion if it be decreed that the fault be forgotten and forgiuen if when mens harts are healed their goodes be abstained from let them be all of one minde Now the matter in hande is about the right of men and about an Earledome let that controuersy be taken away and there is no cause of warres Ramond requesteth his auncient patrimony Simon holdeth fast that which he hath gotten by Armes the gifte of the counsell the benefite of the king of France These men are â—â—â—deâ—ill onely of there owne But the Pope because the matter had once before beene adiudged doth thinke it to stande with his constancie and with religion to haue the ordinances of their fathers to abide stable and his owne decrees inuiolable c. Thus the wise Barrons saw and wee also may that the warres in the Earledome of Towlose had ceased when the cause ceased that is when the Albigenses were expelled and the Catholickes Romaine restored if it had not bene for this decree of the Counsell that had adiudged the Earledome vnto Monssort which now seeing they were not contented with the reformation of the Earledome and the Earle continued manie yeares after almost to the vtter destruction of the Country and also the death of Simon who eight yeares after was in that quarrell slaine at the seige of Tolowse But there sonnes Almericke and Ramond continued theyr fathers contention When Almericke findeing himselfe to weake did three yeares after make ouer his right vnto Lewis the eight the French King for to bee created Constable of France Lewes wanne Aninion by assault yet dyed before hee could accomplish his conquest and his widdowe and regent of his young sonne followed the quarrell and at length ended it by composition that Alphonse hir younger sonne should marry with the sole doughter and heyre of the Earle and enioy his earledome after his disease this happened Anno 1235 nyneteene yeares after that all warres for religion had ended Soe greate a good had the first execution of this Canon wrought I haue dwelt the longer in the narration of this history for to shew the inconuenience of this Canon and also to set before the eyes of my Catholicke Countrimen what curtsie they and theirs are like to finde at the handes of a forreyne Catholike Prince if any should vnhappely which God of his vnmeasurable mercy forbidde and my hande shaketh to write through their wicked and pernicious treason obtaine the conquest of this kingdome But the english nobilitie that liued at the counsell at Latarane could not forget the wretched wracke and wast that a conquest bringeth and the slauery misery and the extremity and cursed calamities that the accepting of a forreine prince inferreth and enforceth who then kept wofull warres receiued from their auncesters by many discents for their auncient lawes and liberties of whom they had beene cruelly spoyled by the conqerour his successors and also deliuered them vnto their posteritys almost to the destruction of the bloud Royall well neere to the vtter ruine of their owne howses and the lamentable shipwracke of their deare country Yea and what regard the nobilitie and people of this Land had then of any decree and Canon made by the Pope touching any temporall matter it doth planely appeare by Mathew of Paris who writeth that when the Pope had sent Bulles of discharge of the Kinges oth and graunt of their auncient lawes and liberties and also excommunication against the Barrons and their adherents that did atteÌ„pt to force King Iohn to the performance of them The Barons would not obey them but all men generally and as it were with one mouth saide that the Bulles were of no moment because the ordering of laye matters did not appertaine vnto the Pope For that onely the power to dispose of Church matters was giuen by our Lord vnto Peter and his successors What meanes the insatiable couetousnesse of the Romaines to stretch out it selfe vnto vs what haue Apostolicke Byshoppes to doe with warres
See they will be the successors of Constantine and not of Peter c. And in this minde they continued in the reigne of king Edward the first when the Parliament assembled at Lincolne thus wrote as we reade in Thomas of VValsingham flores historiarum vnto Bonifacius the viii who among other things in his letters to the king had requested that if the King had any right in the kingdomes of Scotland or any part thereof that he would send his proctors and learned counsell vnto him and there the matter shoulde speedily with iustice be adiudged decided Neither that the kings of England had by reason of the preeminence of their state regall dignity and costome at all times inuiolably obserued euer answered or ought to answere before any Iudge eccelesiasticall or secular about his rights in the aforesaide kingdome of Scotland or other his temporalities wherefore we hauing held a diligent consultation deliberation vppon the contents of your abouesaide letters it was the common concordious one minded consent of vs all of eueryone of vs shal be for euer hereafter vnaltered that our foresaid Lord the King doe not about the rights of the kingdome of Scotland or other his temporalities in any wise answere iudicially before you nor come vnder iudgement in any sort or bring his rights aforesaide in doubt or question nor therefore sende proctours or messengers vnto your presence seeing the premises doe tende manifestly to the disinheriting of the right of the Crowne of the kingdome of England and the kingly dignitie the notorious subuersion of the state of the same kingdome also to the preiudice of our fathers libertie costoms lawes to the obseruation and defending of whom we are bouÌ„d by the duty of oth taken the which we will maintaine in all that we can and will with the helpe of God defend with all our strength Neither also doe wee permit or in any sort will suffer as neither we can nor ought that our foresaide Lord king yea if he would doe or in any cause attempt the premises so vnwonted vndue preiudiciall and at other times so vnheard of c. And now I pray you will any indifferent man beleeue that our countrimen in those daies did thinke that the Pope had authoritie to despose their Kings or knew or heard that their fathers and auncestours had giuen the Pope power to expose the kingdome of their countrie for a common pray for all Christians and Catholickes But now hauing prooued that this Canon cannot bind vs now vnlesse our ancestours had receaued by consent of Parliament also haue shewed that it neither was nor could be done let vs fall to our seconde proofe that the Canons of this Counsell at least in temporall cases were neuer receiued in this Realme In this counsel there was a Canon made vnder payne of excoÌ„munication that the Clergy should not be forced to pay any contribution to secular princes neither shoulde they willingly of their owne accord pay any without licence first obtained of thâ— Pope Now that this Canon was neuer in force here it doth plainely appeare by the subsidies payde by the Clergy vnto the sonne of King Iohn Chap. 24. Henry the third in the ix the xvi the xxi the xxix the xxxvii the xliiii the xlii yeares of his raigne neuer once asked the Popes consent but contrariwise in the xxxvi yeares of his raigne the king hauing the popes mandate from the Counsell of Lyons See Holinâ—hed to pay him three tenthes because he was crossed for the holy land they vtterly refused to pay him penny The Clergy did also wthout contradiction pay vnto his sonne and successor Edward the first in the eight yeare of his reaigne thre tenthes and in the eleauenth yeare the twentith part of all their goodes but afterward at the Parliament helde at Saint Edmondesbury Robert the Archbyshoppe of Canterbury and some of the Clergy refused to pay not claming to be exempted by this Canon but by another decre made lately that very yeare by Pope Bonifacius the eight but then the King put the Cleargy out of his protection and thus forced them to yeelde and so they haue continued payment quietly euer since that time An other Canon we haue in the same counsell Chap. 4â— that no prescription shall be good during the whole time whereof the possessor did not verelye beleeue that the thing was his owne in truth But that the law of this land did neuer make any distinction of possession bona or malae fidei whether the possessor did think it to be his owne or not at all our Lawyers doe know and acknowledge And also the statutes of limitation made in the Parliamentes held at Marton and VVestminster in the three and twentie yeares of the raignes of Henry the third and Edward the first doe plainelie prooue Also a third Canon there is a branch of this of the desposition of Princes that the goodes of Clarkes condemned for heretikes shall bee forfeited vnto the Churches where they serued This constitution not to bee obserued the author of the booke called the Doctor and the Student doth at large prooue in the xxix Chapter of his seconde booke And also it doth plainely appeare by the statute made in the second yeare of Henry the first Chapt. 7. where wee finde that the goodes of Heretikes of what estate condition and degree soeuer they bee are escheated to the King And also all their landes that houlde immediately of him or of their ordinaries or their commissaries but the landes of all other that holde in chiefe of other Lordes the king to haue them a yeare and a day with their wastes and afterward to returne vnto the Lord of the sea And seeing that in three small matters that touched not the state the Counsell was not nor is receiued can anye wise man beleeue that the Counsell was receaued in a Canon that touched the ruine of the whole country and kingdome and namely seeing it hath beene plainely proued that a part of the very selfe same Canon was neuer alowed Now finally to conclude neither was the sentence of depriuation canonically pronounced against her Maiestie according to thee decree of the Counsell The Canon not orderly executed for whereas she should first haue bene admonished by the Church and then excommunicated by the Metropolitane and his comprouinciall Byshoppes and then if she had contemned to satisfie within one yeare to bee depriued c. It is manifest that she was not excommunicated by the Metropolitane and the Byshoppes of his prouince neyther I doe thinke admonished by the Church but euen at the very first choppe deposed by the Pope Therefore seeing that neyther Pope nor generall counsell haue authoritie to depose Princes or release subiectes of their allegiance neyther was the Canon of the Counsell of Laterane for deposing of Princes euer receiued in this land nor any other Canons of Counsels that touched temporalities neyther yet that Canon orderly executed â—-against her Maiesty What good Christian English man can thinke that hee was by that Bull of Pius Quinâ—â—â— discharged of his obedience and allegiance that hee oweth vnto her Maiestye And can absurdly beleeue that all those that shall dye in that quarell shall vndoubtedlye bee damned in hell fire with all miscreants and rebelles FINIS