noted are those who be subiect to no Prelate And vpon the other part againe let M. Dorman conclude as wel against all kingdomes cōmon wealthes in Christendome that they be liue monsters as hauing many heades for that they haue God in heauen to their head and their seuerall Princes in earth to their heades and gouernours as he for like cause concludeth our particular churches to be liue monsters And I doubt not but M. Dorman so reasoninge shall playnely appéere though not to all men that haue heades yet to all that haue reason in their heades to reason more like a trūke than a man who though he haue an head vpon his shoulders yet dooth he by such monstrous and vnreasonable reasoning showe himselfe to haue but small wit and lesse learning in his head Al this adoo hath M. Dorman made now by the space of more than thrée leaues to deface the scripture as no fitte iudge in cōtrouersies to perswade vs that the Pope like an other Pythagoras by his onely bare woorde may and ought to satisfie all mē heretikes others that it shal be sufficiēt for him onely to say without reason or scripture why he so sayeth sauing this reason onely Papae est pro ratione voluntas With the Pope will standeth for reason as is mentioned in the booke of his owne Canon lawe To this ende all his examples of the Suenkfeldians Arrians Anabaptistes matters moste impertinent to his proposed mater doo tende This is the conclusion of all that you shrinking frō the scripture should not shrinke from the Romaine chaire but stick to the Popes theron sitting by vvhom all haeretikes haue been and these shall be to their vtter confusion vanquished For vvhat one haeretike are they hable to recon ouerthrovven by the scripture VVas Arrius vvere the Anabaptistes ouerthrovven by the scriptures nay that vvere they not These be M. Dormans owne woordes But for that I am not so certaine of the certaintie of the Popes iudgement as M. Dorman is I will be so bolde after his example to demaunde of him certaine shorte questions touching the Pope as iudge as he hath made of the scripture as no iudge What if there be twoo or three Popes at once as often hath been for Dnuphrius reckeneth 26. schismes in in the church of Rome of which some one hath dured about 40. yeres together in euery of the whiche schismes were at the leaste twoo Popes at once when there be I saye two or moe Popes at once one cursing an other one breakyng and disanulling the decrees made by an other one persecuting and killynge an other is it not to be doubted whiche of them shall be this certaine iudge in controuersies And whether in this case the popishe churche be not in daunger to be a liue monster as hauing many heades And on the contrarie part what if we haue neuer a Pope at all for so hath it happened many times for one or twoo yeres together as after Pope Gregorie the. 7. the sée of Rome was vacant one yere after Coelestine the. 4. one yere and. 8. monethes After Clement the. 4. twoo yeres 9. monethes after Nicolas the. 4. twoo yeres and thrée monethes After Clement the. 5. twoo yeres thrée monethes And after Iohn the. 23. it was vacant twoo yeres and fiue monethes shal al our doubtes lie for that time vndiscussed for lacke of a iudge and your popish church so long lie as a dead truncke for lacke of an head Or els whether shall Peters chayre though emptie bee both iudge head too good enough for y e popishe church and suche a bodie as it is What if the Pope sitte not at Rome in Italie which is Peters sée and chayre but at Auinion in Fraunce as Popes did for the space of 70. yeres together may we not doubte of the certaintie of the iudge not sittyng in the chayre whereof he hath all his certaintie or els dooeth he carie his chayre about into all countreis for y t the whole world is his diocesse as in his Canon lawe is mentioned What if the Pope doo erre as all the Canonistes Gratian Gerson Caietane and many others thinke he may What if he bee an heretike as Athanasius S. Hierome Gratian Erasmus the generall Coūcelles the sixt the Councell of Constance and Basill testifie that diuers Popes haue been must he yet néedes be iudge and his iudgement certaine also What if his election be vncertaine or vnlaufull he enteryng in by force ambition symonie periurie as Platina testifieth many of them haue entered and in whiche case not onely Gerson Gratian Caietane and all the Canonistes but also Pope Nicolas the seconde hymselfe doo affirme that he is to be deposed as no lawfull Pope and not Apostolicus but Apostaticus not Apostolike but an Apostata must he yet be the moste certaine and onely iudge What if we haue a shée Pope suche as was Pope Iohane otherwise Iohn the eight must the iudgementes and woorde of our woman Pope be certayne and the iudgementes and woorde of God vncertaine What if the Popes successours dooe disanull their predecessours Popes decrees and make decrées most contrary to them pull them out of their graues whan they be dead and disgrade them is here no incertaintie which Popes and Papall decrees are to be folowed whiche to be reiected Nowe if the matter be the Popes owne case as is this of his supremacie he must be both partie and iudge too whiche his own Canon lawe forbiddeth These doubtes with a great manie moe whereof you shall also shortely heare more at large god wylling haue I good M. Dorman about the Pope as the onely certaine iudge in all controuersies and I desire to be resolued at your handes who are so certaine of the certaintie of his Papall iudgements that you are author to vs to flie from the scriptures as vncertaine to them as moste certaine and infallible For séeynge the spirite of God doth so oft call the scriptures Iudicia iudgementes yea ◠Iudicia iusticiae Dei the iudgementes of the iustice of God and viam veritatis the way of truthe for the certaintie of their iudgement as I take it vntill you haue resolued me of these doubtes and many other about the Pope your Romaine iudge and his consistorie you shall hardly perswade me and as I thinke many moe to beleue that the scripture that is to saye the woorde of God should be vncertain and the Popes that is to say mans and sometime womans woorde to be most certain And besides this text Deus verax omnis autem homo mendax I thinke you shall not finde many moe for your purpose Dorman fol. 14 Aske of them vvith vvhat face they coulde so many yeres together call king Henry the eight supreame head of the churche of England immediatly vnder God and novv our gracious soueraigne lady his daughter supreme gouernour in all
thei haue forsaken the couenaunt of the Lorde their God and haue worshipped straunge Goddes and haue serued theim These M. Dorman be the true causes of suche horrible destructions and desolacions as haue in our time come vpon Monasteries and other houses churches Well it maie be that the Gospel of Christ whiche M. Dorman calleth heresie was occasion of their ruine as Christ is the ruine of all infidels or that the coâ—etousnesse of men seekyng their owne gaine maie be iudged of many the cause therof But the very true causes in déede of this their subuersion were their wicked foundations laied by their first founders and the superstructions of Idolatrie superstition hypocrisie and abominable life whiche they falsely named religious men and Priestes heaped so hugely vpon the saied foundations Had their foundations béen good and sure had their workes been honest and godlie thei should by the light of the Gospel haue gotten praise and honour and their woorkes had not to their shame been discouered by the light and by the heate of the triyng fire vtterly consumed But beyng as thei were thei loued darkenesse thei hated and fled the light leaste their woorkes should bee seen and because thei could no longer hide so huge wickednesse in so cleare lighte whiche discouereth euen small blemishes it came to passe that God by his officers stirred thereto through their counterfeite holinesse so double wickednesse reueiled by the saied light executyng his iustice by the fire of his dreadfull and terrible indignation coÌ„sumed all together so that the houses were destroied and thei dispersed Touchyng the name of altares whiche M. Dorman so gladlie catcheth holde of here in sainct Basil as he did before in S. Cyprian where we call it the Lordes table we haue for vs good authoritie First that Christ instituted the Sacrament at a table and not at an altar is moste manifest except M. Dorman would haue vs thinke that men had altares in steede of tables in their priuate houses in those daies but our sauiour expresselie saiyng that the handes of hym who should betraie him were vpon the table taketh awaie all doubtyng And S. Paule also calleth it Mensam dominicaÌ„ the Lorde his table Sure I am that M. Dorman and all the Papistes with hym can not saie so muche out of the scriptures of the newe Testamente for their altares as I haue alledged for the Lordes table thei maie therefore go and ioyne theÌ„selues to the Iewes as in multitude of Iewishe ceremonies so in altares also as it seemeth in déede thei would bothe become themselues and make vs too Iewes rather then christiaÌ„s If S. Basill and some other old writers cal it an altar that is no proper but a figuratiue name for that as in the old lawe their brent offeringes and sacrifices were offered vpon the altare so are our sacrifices of praier and thankes geuing c. offred vp to God at the Lordes table as it were at an altar But suche kind of figuratiue speache caÌ„ be no iust cause to set vp altares rather then tables vnlesse thei thinke that their crosses also should bée turned into altares for that like phrase is vsed of them where it is saied Christe offered by hymself vpon the altar of the crosse Now th' olde doctors doe call it the Lordes table vsuallie truelie without figure and agreablie to the scriptures Concernyng the spirituall worship or seruice of God or sacrifice if you will seyng it is also meÌ„tioned in S. Basill due to be doen at the Lordes table whiche as afore is noted he calleth an altare it is not lackyng in our Churches at the Lordes table that is to saie true repentaunce of harte whiche is as the Prophete calleth it a seruice and a sacrifice pleasaunte vnto God the offeryng vp of our praiers and praises vnto God whiche seruice and sacrifice of praise as the Psalme witnesseth doeth honour God and specialie that sacrifice of thankes geuing moste peculiar to this altare or Lordes table and to that holie Sacramente hauing thereof a peculiar name beyng called with the Greekes 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to saie thankes geuyng for the gratefull remembraunce of that one Sacrifice offered by our sauiour once for all whiche sacrifice of thankes geuyng wée ioynctly with other present doo offer vp to Christe our sauiour in the memoriall by hym lefte and by faithe in our hertes doo communicate his precious bodie and bloude a sacrifice by hymself offered for vs. Neither are our oblations or offerynges to the poore lackyng when we come to this altare which S. Paule also calleth a sacrifice acceptable pleasaunte to God whereas you Papistes haue no suche thyng but onely the bare woorde Offertorium without any offeryng for the poore sauyng that you did not forget to receiue the offerynges for your selues at the vsuall offering daies and when any Dirige or Monethes mynde did fall Thus you se maister Dorman that we haue euen that same spirituall worship seruice and sacrifice too if you so will due to be done at this altare that is to wit the Lordes Table whiche S. Bafill speaketh of here and any other altare or seruice he meaneth not nor knewe none And were you not altogether to grosse S. Basil so oiÌ„te speakyng of spirituall worshipping and spirituall seruice might somewhat reforme your carnall and sensuall vnderstandyng You see wee doo not sticke to graunt you not onely a spirituall worship and seruice but a sacrifice too whiche yet hath no neede of your altares framed to your selues vpon this false phantasie that the bodie and bloud of Christe are there offered by the Priestes for the quicke and deade with the abuse of that distinction of the bloudie and vnbloudie offeryng of Christes bodie applied to the same whiche is altogether a false fable and a vaine dreame moste mete for M. Dorman The scriptures doo thus teache vs that Christ our sauiour once for all offered vp his body and bloud vpon the altar of the crosse the one and onely sacrifice of swéete sauour to his father by the whiche one oblatioÌ„ of the bodie of Christ a sacrifice for our sinnes once for euer offered and no more to bee offered by any man we be sanctified and made perfite Wherfore the popishe Priestes whiche doo repeate often the sacrifice of Christes death as thei doo teache thereby as muche as in theÌ„ lieth doo take awaie the efficacie and vertue of the Sacrifice of Christes death makyng it like to the sacrifices of the old lawe the imperfection of which sacrifices S. Paule doeth proue by the often repetitioÌ„ of the same For the continuance wherof their priestes also needed succession but Christe is a Priest for euer without succession and his sacrifice perpetuall without repetition as the Apostle plainly teacheth Our seruice and sacrifice now is the often and thankful remembraunce of that onely sacrifice in the receiuyng of the holie Sacrament at the
Lordes table accordyng to his owne institution Hoc facite in memoriam mei doo this in remembraunce of mée with spirituall feadyng by faithe also vpon that his moste precious bodie and bloud so by him for vs offered Touching the pullyng doune of your altares I answere thei are iustlie destroied as were those wicked altares by Asa Iosaphat Ezechias Iosias godlie kinges of Iuda destroied For as abominable Idolatrie was committed on and before your altares as euer was vpoÌ„ and before those If you require proufes hereof you shall haue them in their due places of the Masse and of Idolatrie to Images In the meane season if you thinke it enough onelie to call vs heretikes and to affirme that wee pollute suche Churches as yet remaine with schismaticall seruice and diuelishe doctrine and that we doo accompt hymnes in the night and holie daies to be superstitioÌ„ If you M. DormaÌ„ thinke it enough onely to saie thus to proue nothyng to raile muche seyng all is not Gospell that Dauus or Syrus dooe speake in plaiyng their partes lette it serue me at this presente also to saie the contrary that wee teache no doctrine but suche as is agreable to God his woorde and therefore be no â—eretikes that wée haue and keepe our Sabboth daies and holie daies too aswell as euer did the Papistes and doo sing as good and godlie himnes in the daie as euer did thei your Nightyngalâ—es in the darke and better too And when wee haue bothe thus saied to leaus the iudgemente of bothe our saiynges to the discreate reader for this tyme rather then continuallie at euery occasion by you catched to make a confusion of diuers matters which it seemeth you haue purposely sought And thus farre to that whiche M. Dorman hath alledged out of S. Basill as againste vs. And I doo muche maruell that he did not rehearâ—e these woordes of sainct Basill in the same place also Vnum est crimen c. to saie There is one faulte whiche is now vehementlie condemned and punished to witte the diligente obseruation of the tradicions of the fathers These are sainct Basilles woordes in effecte whiche omitted by maister Dorman doo signifie that either he redde not the place hymself or was more then halfe a sleape when he did reade it els would he neuer haue let it so escape hym But wee answere to suche as haue alledged it The traditions of suche fathers as wer S. Basilles fathers and liued in the primitiue Churche wée esteme as wee ought to doo The traditions of our later stepfathers vnborne long after S. Basilles death who be the children of that stepdame the Popishe Synagoge wée coÌ„temne and condemne for that thei haue preferred their saide traditions before the lawe of God and the institution of our sauiour Christe And thus muche for our agréement with S. Basill Now wheÌ„ M. Dorman beside S. Basill besides the booke too as thei saie affirmeth that learned meÌ„ are depriued of their liuinges Shomakers weauers Tinkers Ruffians Felons c. put in their places it is but a floorish of his Rhetorike he is not able to name any one suche in a learned Papistes roome or any of suche dishonestie as ruffians or felons in our ministerie though it be not vnknoweÌ„ that there hath been great plentie of popishe priestes bothe feloÌ„s and traitours too But if M. Dorman will make a reasonable coÌ„parison he must compare the learned of our side with the learned of their sorte or their vnlearned sir Ihons with our poore ministers And I doubte not though our Bishoppes bee not so well learned in Canon Lawe in matters of contention aboute worldlie controuersies in bearyng of temporall office and authoritie and in comelie courtlie behauiour and worldly pompe as are their Bishoppes yet in all kindes of learnyng maners and qualities by S. Paule in the office of a Bishoppe required there shall bée founde as many learned bishoppes and as able and willyng to doo the dueties of good and godlie bishoppes per se noÌ„ per alium emongest vs euen at this daie as euer were emongeste the Papistes or in Englande fith the firste Bishoppe was created in it And I trust likewise that our Cleargie nexte vnder our bishoppes shall not bée founde any whit inferiour in learnyng nor honestie of life to theirs Therfore M. Dorman wheÌ„ it pleased you to saie that Cowheardes and Broume men are placed in learned mennes roumes you doo but fable as you are wonte to doo And that wée lacke a greate many of learned men to furnishe all ecclesiasticall offices wée maie thanke you Papistes who haue mouÌ„e crnellie consumed so many of them to ashes and therby driuen vs to supplie small cures with some honeste artificers exercised in the scriptures whom neither sainct Peter the Fisher nor saincte Paule the Tente maker who bothe vsed their artes after their calling to the Apostleship would so despise as doo you M. Dorman And I doo muche meruaile of your iudgement who doo place Peter the Fisher in the higheste roume aboue all Bishoppes and can not suffer other honest artificers sufficiently exercised in the Scriptures to haue any place at all in the inferiour ministerie Whiche honest poore men if thei haue succeded in the places not of learned men as you doo vntrulie saie but in the steede of your Popishe sir Ihons lacke latin all good learnyng and honestie too who tooke the chaunge of our Churche Seruice from Latine into Englishe so greuouslie for none other cause but for that thei could reade no Englishe a greate many of them wheÌ„ thei were put to it suche greate clerkes thei were and were otherwise by triall founde in all qualities farre more meete to be Tinkers Cobblers Cowheardes yea Swineheardes and Bearewardes too then ministers of Christes Churche no good and godlie man can therefore iustlie bee offended with suche chaunge though M. Dorman storme neuer so muche thereat Dorman Fol. 3. Now as we felte none of all these miseries besides a thousande moe so long as wee keapt ourselues within the vnitie of one head so is euery manne able to beare me witnesse that as soone as the diuell the authour of all heresies had once obteined and brought about the banishemente in our countrey of that one bishoppe with the whiche as you haue heard out of S. Cyprian before he vseth alwaies to begin all these russhed in apon vs as the dore that should haue kepte them out beyng set wide open Nowell M. Dorman faieth you haue heard out of saincte Cyprian that with the banishing of that one bishop meanyng the bishoppe of Rome the diuell beginneth bringeth in all miseries afterwarde but you haue séen it plainlie declared that in al those places alledged by M. Dorman out of S. Cyprian there is not one worde written or meant of the bishoppe of Rome but of Rogatian and of S. Cyprian hymself beyng bothe Bishoppes of Afrike And where he saith that all miseries haue russhed in
for the same purpose out of Deuteronomium If it please the Pope to offer his feete to Emperours Kinges of the worlde to kisse or if it staÌ„deth further with his pleasure to treade on their neckes as he serued the Emperour Frederike or if he haue a likyng to their crounes and kyngdomes as he had to the croune of Englande in kyng Ihon his time or liste he to depose kynges and Emperours as he hath deposed many yet maie he neither be disobeied nor denied in his will and luste For as Pighius to that purpose hath alledged Qui superbierit nolens obedire c. He that waxeth proude and will not obeye the commaundemente of the high Prieste for the tyme beyng lette hym dye by the decree of the iudge And peculiarlie that he maie so tread vpoÌ„ Emperours and Kynges neckes that in so doyng he doeth but right appereth by this texte alledged for that purpose by Pope Alexander the thirde Super aspidem Basiliscum ambulabis c. That is to saie Thou shalt walke vpon the Adder and Basiliske thou shalt tread vpon the Lion and Dragon And his right to all kyngdomes that in askyng of them he dooeth but aske his owne and that he maie make and depose kynges and bestowe kyngdomes at his pleasure and that he hath bothe the swordes and the right of bothe the heauenly and earthly Empire is proued by these speciall textes alledged by Pope Boniface the eight and other Popes for that purpose Ecce duo gladij hic Beholde twoo swordes here Et ecce constitui tesuper gentes regna c. Beholde this daie doo I sette thee ouer the people and kyngdomes that thou maiest roote out breake of destroie and make waste that thou maiest builde vp and plante And by this texte alledged by Pope Gregorie the .vij. Quicquid ligaueris aut solueris in terra c. What soeuer thou doest binde or loose vpon the earth shal bee bounde or loosed in heauen Of whiche woordes the saied Pope maketh this collectioÌ„ that if thei maie binde and loose in heauen thei maie muche more in earth take awaie and geue Empires Kyngdomes Principates and what soeuer mortall men els haue and so foorth as foloweth in Platine moste worthie to bee read And the same is proued also by this speciall texte to the like purpose alledged by Pope Iulius the thirde Gens regnum quod mihi non seruierit peribit The nation kyngdome whiche shall not serue me shall perishe Whiche sentence also for more suretie the said Pope caused to be stamped in his coigne Finally whatsoeuer it shal please the Pope to doo to the burte of mennes bodies or losse of their gooddes and possessions yea or to the eternall damnation of their soules be thei neuer so many yea bee thei innumerable yet maie no mortall man blame hym no man maie bee so bolde to saie Domine cur ita facis Lorde why doe you so Wherefore notwithstandyng saincte Paules boldenesse with Peter the Popes predecessour as he saieth wee are â—ow without all remedie against the Pope what errour so euer he doo teach and what mischief so euer he doo and wee must rather suffer our selues and infinite thousandes to bâ—e damned then to bee so bolde as to alledge any scriptures though moste manifestlie contrary to suche the Popes saiynges and doynges Suche as emongest others are these Principes gentium c. That is to saie Princes of nations beare rule ouer them but it shall not bee so emongest you but he that will bee the chief emongest you let hym bee your seruaunte and he that will bee greate emongest you let hym bee your minister euen as the soonne of man came not to bee ministred vnto but to minister vnto other And againe Nolite vocari Rabbi c. Vos omnes fratres estis Be not desirous to be called Rabbi for one is your maister to wit Christ and ye are all brethren bee not called maisters he that is greateste emongest you shal bee your seruaunte for whosoeuer exalteth hymself shal be brought lowe and he that humbleth hymself shalbée exalted Et ne sitis ceu dominium exercentes in cleros Bee not as those who exercise dominion ouer the people or as Lordes ouer Parishes For so is it traÌ„slated also If we I saie shall alledge these and suche like Scriptures againste suche vsurped tyrannie and false wrestyng of the scriptures wee shall gaine nothyng thereby but onely to be accompted hereâ—ikes for not obeyng the voice of the high Priest who alone can tell the sense and meanyng of the scriptures accordyng to this texte Legem requirent ex ore sacerdotis thei shal require the lawe at the mouthe of the high Priest without whose interpretation the scripture is but the dumbe and deade letter a rule of Leade a nose of waxe flexible what waie you liste bou it If we further doo bryng the olde Doctours of the Churche by whose interpretations it is declared that these scriptures doo serue directly against suche vsurped rule and dominion as sainct Augustine alledged in the Popes owne Canon lawe teachyng that Episcopatus operis non honoris nomeÌ„ est a Bishoprike is a name of woorke not of honour And S. Hierome likewise alledged in their owne Canons willyng bishops to knowe that thei bee Ecclesiasticall ministers and not Lordes where he bringeth for hym the foresaied place of S. Peter And the scholies of that Canon doâ— note it to be written against the pride of Bishops and that where thei call their inferiours children thei ought to call them brethren And the same place of S. Peter S. Bernard likewise alledgeth to Pope Eugenius willeth hym as Peters successour to heare Peter yea and Paule also bothe ioinctly warnyng him to auoide the vsyng of dominion and Lordeship ouer the Churche And telleth hym that if he bee sent by Christ he is sent to serue not to be serued And exhorteth him not to be presumptuouslie wise but to feare and warneth hym to beware of bribes to weigh the causes of the Archbishop of Canterburie the bishops of Winchester and Yorke not by money accordyng to the custome of the courte of Rome but by equitie For these Prelates at that tyme pursued their controuersies in the courte of Rome And the same saincte Bernard vpon this place afore alledged out of saincte Luke The kynges of the earth haue dominion ouer them c. hath these woordes It is plaine dominion is forbidden vnto Apostles Goe therefore and be so bolde saieth sainct Bernarde to Pope Eugenius as to vsurpe to thy self either the Apostleship vsyng dominion or dominion beyng Apostolike Doubtlesse thou art forbidden the one or the other If thou wilte haue bothe a like thou shalt lose bothe And so foorth telling hym plainly that if he will needes raigne he shal be of that compainie of whoÌ„ God speaketh by y e Prophet Thei
haue raigned but not by me thei haue been Princes and I haue not knowen them And if suche seueral testimonies of doctours maie not serus vs if we for further proufe bring a number of doctours ioinctly agreyng together forbiddyng bishops suche tyrannicall dominion ouer the churche of God as did saincte Cyprian in the Councell of Carthage with the allowance of the whole Councell then and with the approbation of saincte Augustine afterwarde and an other whole Councell also The woordes spoken by saincte Cyprian in the saied Councell and by so many Bishops and Doctours allowed are these Nemo nostrum episcopum se episcoporum constituit aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitateÌ„ collegas suos adigit quando habeat omnis episcopus pro licentia libeitatis potestatis suae arbitrium proprium tanquà m iudicari ab alio noÌ„ possit cum necipse possit alterum iudicare That is to say None of vs maketh hymself Bishop ouer Bishops or doeth by tyrannicall feare force his felowe Bishops to the necessitie of obeiyng seyng euery Bishop hath for his libertie power his free iudgement as he who can not be iudged of an other neither can himself iudge an other Bishop Thus farre saincte Cyprian and saincte Augustine Wee shall profite I saie no more by the allegations of Doctours yea or whole Councelles thaÌ„ by the allegation of the Scriptures themself againste the Popes saiynges or doynges what so euer thei bee Neither the texte of the scriptures nor the interpretation of Doctours nor iudgementes of Councelles can haue any credite againste hym For as Pighius the principall Doctour of the Popes part saieth In concilijs vniuersalibus vniuersis haud ferè aliud factum est quà m vt conuenientes ex toto orbe episcopi praeiudicatam iam Apostolicae sedis vnanimi consensu amplexarentur sequerentur sententiam nec in eis definitum aliquid quod non iam praeiudicatum antè definitumque esset à sede Apostolica That is to saie In all generall Councelles for the moste parte nothyng els is doen but that Bishops comyng together out of all partes of the worlde should embrace and folowe with agreable consent the foreiudged and afore determined sentence of the Apostolike see and that nothyng was defined in suche generall Councelles the whiche was not before defined and foreiudged by the Apostolike see Thus farre Pighius who also affirmeth in the same place that the onely iudgement of this one see is more sure then the iudgement of an vniuersall CouÌ„cell of the whole worlde Wherby it maie well be vnderstaÌ„ded what labour and coste euen by the Papistes themselues is loste and how in vaine their Bishoppes take suche paine to come to Councelles out of all partes of Christendome leauyng their cures vncared for and vnlooked tos and that sometyme a sorte of yeres together as of late thei haue doen in the laste Tridentine councell onelie to determine thynges alreadie determined and that therefore thei should like wise men keepe themselues at hâ—me and spare suche trauell and coste and onely herken what is pronounced out of that sacred mouth of the Pope at Rome and it to obeye absolutely And the same Pighius afterward in an other place saieth expresly Huic sedi authoritas componendi definiendi exortas i domo ecclesiastica vniuersas questiones controuersias ab eodem Christo est data tibi verò illius definitionibus iudicijs absque vlla discussione est imposita obsequendi necessitas That is to saie The authoritie of orderyng definyng and determinyng of all questions and controuersies risen in the Churche is geuen by Christe to this see of Rome and vpon thee is laied a necessitie of obeiyng all definitions and determinations of the saied see without any examinyng or discussing of y e same These be Pighius woordes also No meruaile therefore if you doo well coÌ„sider the premisses that M. Dorman calleth the Popes supremacie the fundation of al. Naie it is the fundation superstruction batilmentes garnishinges and all together it is all and all in all For were this one article of the Popes supremacie with the appurtenauÌ„ces as I haue said once obteined you neede not to trauell in writyng any more you neede not to bryng any proufes out of the scriptures Doctours or Councelles for you or againste vs any more for it were concluded at once that you be the Catholikes who doo acknowledge the necessitie of obeiyng the voice the determinations and definitions of that high Prieste without whattes or whies without discussyng or examinyng of them by your selues or with others and that we bee the heretikes who doo not obeye his voice beyng against Goddes voice but are so bolde to examine how his voices doo agree with Gods voice And therefore are we worthie to dye moste cruell death due to suche false heretiques Graunte this one proposition of the Popes supremacie with the appurtenaunces I saie and by and by all that M. Dorman hath hitherto most leudlie alledged or shall alledge hereafter for the Popes supremacie is to the purpose all lies he hath alreadie made and shall hereafter make for that purpose are truthes And whatsoeuer we saie to the contrarie what scriptures what Doctours what Councelles so euer we bryng all is to no purpose nor of any credite for he alone is iudge whose the cause is he alone as your greate Doctour Pighius saieth is more to be beleued then a generall Councell of the whole worlde assembled And therefore hath M. Dorman doen like a wise manne to entreate first of the Popes supremacie and in the treatie thereof to spende more paper ynke more oile and labour as thei saie yea twise as muche as he hath doen in the other three principall matters though otherwise the greatest of all other as touching euen the verie Masse it self whiche as it hath hitherto susteined the Pope and all his Cleargie so if the Pope doo not now by his supremacie and irrefragable authoritie susteined by maister Dorman like a friende at néede susteine the Masse againe it maie come to passe that bathe Pope and Masse will come to nought shortly Now foloweth the diuision of M. DormaÌ„s treatie Dorman fol. 4. In the handlyng whereof I purpose God willyng to take this order Firste before I come to the principall poincte that lieth in question betwene vs whiche is of the bishop of Romes supremacie to proue to you by moste plain and euident reasons that the Churche of Christe here militante in earth muste of necessitie for diuerse and sondrie vrgent causes haue one chief heade and ruler vnder Christe to rule and gouerne the same Secondarily that that one heade muste needes bee a Prieste Thirdlie so last of al that of all priestes the bishop of Rome is he whiche must supplie that place and that for so that is head ruler of the churche he hath byn of the auncient couÌ„cels olde fathers within the first sixe
hundred yeres after Christes departure taken Nowell And I folowyng your order M. Dorman doo affirme and will proue the contrarie to all and euery pointe of your diuision that is to witte Firste that it is not profitable muche lesse necessarie that the Churche of Christe here in earth should haue one chief heade and ruler vnder Christe to gouerne the same and that for diuers and sundrie vrgent and moste weightie causes Secondarilie that no prieste can bee any suche one heade of the Churche here in earth Thirdly that of all priestes the bishop of Rome can not be that heade for that he is no Bishop but rather a temporall vsurper and tyraunte contrary to Gods expresse woorde and that all suche places as are by you M. Dorman and others alledged out of the scriptures and doctours for the said bishop of Rome his supremacie apperteine nothyng at all to that purpose Dorman fol. 4. That Christes Churche here in earth must of necessitie haue one chief heade and gouernoure vnder Christe to rule the same Nowell M. Dorman doeth well begin with this part firste to proue that there must of necessitie be one chief heade and gouernour of the whole Churche vnder Christ for if there ought not to be suche an one heade and gouernour at all he did well perceiue that consequently the bishop of Rome could not be that head and gouernour Wherefore it being throughly proued and manifestly declared that M. Dorman faileth in the proufe of this first pointe as I doubt not but it shal bée so proued and declared I truste that all wise men shall vnderstande that this first and principall part and staie of the whole beyng ouerthrowen his whole treatie of the bishop of Rome his supremacie shall altogether fall to grounde with it without any further batetrie to y e same or vnderminyng thereof to be made Dorman Fol. 4. The truthe of this proposition good christian readers is not onely by the whole order and forme of the estate of Gods people in the olde lawe whiche was also the true churche of God long before the comming of our sauiour into this worlde but by the daiely experience also of câ—uile and politike gouernement most manifestly confirmed Nowell Of the estate of Gods people in the olde lawe who as thei were one seuerall people so had thei one highe prieste what can you gather further but that likewise in euery Diocesse or countrey it were good to haue one chief prelate or bishop to rule in the cleargie Whiche we denie not nor euer did deny But of this matter M. Dorman geueth vs occasion to saâ—e more hereafter Dorman Fol. 4. For who is there so blinde that he seeth not that in the whole frame of this worlde there is no kyngdome so mightie no realme so puissant no citie so populous no toune so wealthie yea on the contrary parte also no village so little no family so small finally no so cietie of men no not of those that haue wrapped them selues in league to robbe and spoile that can any while continue without a heade to gouerne them If therefore to liue vnder the gouernment of a heade be a matter of suche importaunce as without the whiche neither great nor little riche nor â–ª poore good nor badde can stande how muche more necessarie shall wee thinke it in Christes Churche here militant in earth where the diuell in his members is coÌ„tinually occupied in raising of schismes in stirryng vp discorde to vexe and molest the people of God to haue this wholesome prouision for the appeasyng thereof and the restoryng of the same beyng troubled to quietnesse againe Nowell This reason he had in D. Hardyng his booke who borowed it of Pighius whiche beyng taken out of S. Cyprian his epistle to one Pupianus thei haue violeÌ„tly wrested to a wrong sense For S. Cyprian maketh this reason directlie againste them for the proufe of his owne authoritie being bishop of Carthage and for the authoritie of euery Bishop in his owne diocesse Now to the matter VVho is so blinde ê™ M. Dorman now surely I truste no man is so blinde but he can see that M. Dorman reasoneth blindlie and without all reason gatheryng thus that because euery kyngdome hath his seueral kyng euery people citie toun village house yea euery companie of the eues robbers haue their seuerall gouernour or heade put to and you will also as dooeth saincte Cyprian out of whom D. Hardyng and M. Dorman vndiscreatly tooke the occasion of this argument euery hiue of Bees hath his capitain Bee therefore should it folowe that all Churches or the whole churche dispersed throughout the whole world muste haue one heade You should M. Dorman if you would haue reasoned reasonably haue taken aswell saincte Cyprian his conclusion as you haue taken his antecedent and haue concluded with him Ergo in like wise euery diocesse and euery Churche ought to haue their seuerall heade prelate or bishop who is to bee obeyed by all their owne cleargie and wee would haue graunted the coÌ„sequencie and consequent as thei saie For by this meanes saincte Cyprian concludeth that Pupianus did wickedlie in disobeiyng sainct Cyprian hymself who was his bishop But neither saincte Cyprian nor any other learned man doth vse these examples or similitudes any where to proue that there ought to be one head or gouernour ouer all churches or the vniuersall churche but hath the cleane contrary saiyng thus Singulis pastoribus portio gregis ascripta est quam regat vnusquisque gubernet rationem sui actus domino redditurus That is to saie A portion of the Lordes flocke is appointed to euery pastour by himself the which euery one ought to rule gouerne who shall geue accompte of his doyng to the Lorde And so foorth moste plainlie againste the supremacie of one and for that due gouernmente of euery bishop ouer his owne ture This is saincte Cyprian his reason this is his conclusion M. Dorman But if you like your conclusion so well that you will nedes coÌ„clude that there ought to bee one generall heade of all Churches you must thus begin As there is one generall gouernour or kyng ouer all the worlde one generall head ouer all people all cities tounes villages and houses one capitaine thief and robber ouer all thieues and robbers one kyng Bee ouer all hiues of Bees throughout the whole worlde so muste there bee one onely heade in earth ouer all Churches throughout the worlde But as no man is so blinde but he seeth the falsehood of this antecedent so is I trust no man so blinde but he séeth the absurditie and inconsequencie of your former conclusion of one generall heade ouer all Churches gathered out of an antecedent and vnlikely similitude of the seuerall gouernours that euery kyngdome countrey people citie and toune and euery companie of menne seuerally haue I merueile he alledged not Homer the Poete and Aristotle the Philosopher also for the
Priestes and immediatlie before the place by M. Dorman alledged are these woordes Sacerdotalis authoritas Sacerdotum hostes That is to saie the Priestlie authoritie and the enemies of Priestes Also these woordes nexte folowing the same place Sacerdotum collegium mox Sacerdotes i. dispensatores dei the Colledge or companie of Priestes and the Priestes that is to saie Gods dispensers or stewardes If thei will in readyng the epistle note these and many like phrases thei shall easelie perceiue this also whiche M. Dorman alledgeth to be spoken of the authoritie of many and not of one onelie And if it bee to tedious to peruse the whole epistle if the readers will but caste their eye vpon the shorte argument of the epistle written by Erasmus who was no vnskilfull or negligent vewer of the writynges of the olde fathers and whose authoritie M. Dorman vseth in this booke against vs thei shall easilie vnderstande the same Erasmus his woordes in the argument or summe of this epistle are these Ostendit praetereà qualiter sacerdotalis authoritas potestas diuina dignatione firmetur inde abortas haereses nata esse schismata ê™ dei sacerdotibus obtemperare noluerint Saincte Cyprian doeth shewe saieth Erasmus how the Priestlie authoritie and power is by Gods goodnesse established and that heresies and schismes dooe arise hereof that thei will not obey the Priestes of God Thus farre Erasmus who speaketh as you see of the verie place here by M. Dorman alleged And if M. Dorman had read and marked but this shorte argumente of that epistle thereby might he haue vnderstaÌ„ded that this place by hym alleged for the supremacie of one to witte Cornelius as Bishop of Rome perteineth to the authoritie of all the Priestes of God aswell as to hym And that sainct Cyprian meaneth that euery one Bishop should bee ruler onelie in his owne diocesse and that no one Bishop or other manne should bee ruler and iudge ouer all other Bishoppes appeareth by his woordes wherewith he blameth Pupianus for that presumption Tu te episcopum episcopi c. Thou doest make thy self a bishop ouer the Bishop and a iudge of the iudge by God for the tyme appoincted These are sainct Cyprians woordes with whom in this case sainct Augustine doeth agree who as is before noted reporteth and alloweth these woordes of sainct Cyprian Neque quisquam nostrum episcopum se esse episcoporum constituit c. That is to saie none of vs maketh hymself Bishop ouer Bishoppes or doeth by tyrannicall feare force his felowe Bishoppes to the necessitie of obeiyng Seyng euery Bishop hath of his libertie and power his owne free iudgemente as he who can not be iudged of an other neither can hymself iudge an other lette vs then looke all for the iudgement of our Lorde Iesus Christ who alone hath power bothe to place vs in the gouernaunce of the churche and to iudge of our actes Thus farre saincte Cyprian and faincte Augustine by whose iudgemente you see M. Dorman how the Pope hath vsurped a tyrannie ouer other Bishops in takyng vpon hym to be Bishop ouer all Bishops and iudge ouer the Iudges appoincted for the tyme in Christes steede and that you mainteine the saied tyrannie Dorman Fol. 5. Hetherto saincte Cyprian By the whiche woordes good Christian readers it is so euident that there must bee one Prieste in the Churche whom all other muste obeie that the same muste bee taken of vs for iudge here in earth in the steede of Christ that you see I nothyng doubt greate cause to condeÌ„ne the grosse ignoraunce of our late apologie wherein the authors contrary to this doctrine of saincte Cyprian moste impudently pronouÌ„ce that in his Churche Christ our lorde vseth not the helpe of any one man alone to gouerne the same in his absence as he that standeth in neede of no suche help and that if he did no mortall man could be found hable alone to doe the same and finally with the same S. Cyprian who died a holie martyr and is no doubt a sainct in heauen to whom the belief of bothe these twoo articles seemed not onely not impossible but also verie necessarie to liue and dye in the obedience of this Priest and vnder suche a iudge then with a sorte of leude losels in whose Churche beyng a certain secrete scattred congregation vnknowen to all the worlde beside and to their own felowes too is nother heade order obedience neither yet certaine rules or groundes where on to staie to runne hedlong ye wote no more then your guides whither Nowell I trust it is sufficientlie and moste euidently declared that euery Bishop in his owne diocesse is that one Priest whom all must obeie and that this place apperteineth to any Bishop of any place as well as the Bishoppe of Rome But whereas M. Dorman would so â—aine haue these woordes of saincte Cyprian Vnus in ecclesia ad tempus sacerdos c. whiche is to saie one Prieste and one Iudge in the Churche for the tyme in the steede of Christ to proue that there ought to be one heade Bishop ouer all the Churche if that to gratifie M. Dorman were grauÌ„ted hym where vpon he would gather consequentlie that Cornelius as Bishoppe of Rome should bee that one heade as to whom and of whoÌ„ this place is written as M. Dorman thinketh if it be declared by the verie place it self that these wordes bée spoken and meant of saincte Cyprian hymself and not of Cornelius and so consequentlie the supremacie of the Churche by their owne reason to bee remoued from Rome to Carthage in Afrike where no Christian Churche now is maie not M. Dorman D. Hardyng and Hosius who doo al so confidentlie allege this place for the Bishop of Rome his supremacie bee either ashamed of their greate folie or els declare their shamelesse impudencie For declaration whereof I saie that as this thirde epistle of the first booke is written to Cornelius then Bishop of Rome so is a greate parte of the saied epistle written of saincte Cyprian his owne affaires and of the iniuries doen to hymself by the heretikes bothe present in Afrike and of their railinges against him in his abseÌ„ce as appeareth by these woordes about a side of a leafe in folio from the beginnyng of the epistle Quae autem sui elatio quae comminantium tumens inflata ac vana iactatio illic absenti minari cùm hic me habeaÌ„t in potestate praesentem What a presumption of themselues iâ— this what a swelling and puffed and vaine braggerie is this there to mannesse me beyng absente when as thei haue me here presente in their handes By these woordes of S. Cyprian it appeareth euidentlie that here he speaketh of hymself beyng despised and in his absence railed vpon by certaine of his owne inferiours and so goeth on with a longe processe and with many allegations out of the scriptures and reproueth that damnable vice of
ecclesiaruÌ„ esse coÌ„suetudineÌ„ vt ad eos qui longè iÌ„ minoribus vrbibê° per presbyteros diaconos baptizati sunt episcopus ad inuocationeÌ„ sanctispuÌ„s manuÌ„ impositurus excurrat c. That is I doo not denie this to bée the custome of churches that y e bishop doeth come to those that be Baptised in lesser tounes by Priestes deacons to laie his hand vpon them with the inuocatioÌ„ of the holy ghost And shortly after he saieth Quòd si hoc loco quaeris quare in ecclesia baptizatus nisi ê‘ manus episcopi noÌ„ accipiat spirituÌ„ sanctuÌ„ queÌ„ oeÌ„s asserimus iÌ„ vero baptismate tribui disce haÌ„c obseruationeÌ„ ex ea autoritate descendere ê™ post ascensum dnÌ„i spuÌ„s sanctê° ad apostolos desceÌ„dit Et multis iÌ„ locis idem factitatuÌ„ reperimus ad honoreÌ„ potius sacerdotij quam legis necessitateÌ„ Alioqui si ad episcopi taÌ„tùm imprecationeÌ„ spuÌ„s sanctê° defluit lugeÌ„di sunt qui in viculis aut in castellis aut iÌ„ remotioribus locis per praesbyteros diaconos baptizati antè dormierunt quà m ab Episcopis inuiserentur Ecclesiae salus in summi sacerdotis dignitate pendet cui si non exors quaedam ab omnibus eminens detur potestas tot in ecclesiis effictentur schismata quot sacerdotes That is to saie If you aske in this place wherefore he that is Baptised in the Churche doeth not receiue the holie ghost but by the handes of the bishop the whiche holie ghost we all doo affirme to bee geuen in true Baptisme Learne this obseruation to come of that authoritie that after the ascension of our Lorde the holie ghost came doune vnto the Apostles And we finde that the same is dooen in many places rather for the honour of Priesthoode then of the necessitie of the lawe Els if the holie Ghoste come doune onelie at the praier of the bishop thei are to be lamented who being baptised by Priestes and deacons in little tounes and villages or places further of doo dye before thei be visited by the bishops The healthe of the church dependeth vpon the estimation of the chief Priest who if he haue not authoritie pearelesse and aboue all other ye shall haue in the churche so many schismes as there be Priestes Thus farre S. Hierome whose woordes I haue repeated at large and in the last place without any intermission haue ioigned the verie woordes by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman alledged to S. Hieromes woordes nexte before Whereby it is moste euidente that S. Hierome speaketh of euery bishop in his owne diocesse and of the priestes and deacons that bée vnder hym in his said diocesse And that the authoritie which S. Hierome saieth the Bishop hath is the authoritie of laiyng his handes vpon children or other lately baptised by inferiour ministers and curates in villages of the said diocesse whiche authoritie is apperteinyng to all bishops in their owne diocesse that bishops haue that authoritie geueÌ„ them aboue other priestes or deacons beyng curates of smaller tounes and villages in their diocesse not by the necessitie of Gods lawe but for the honour of their bishoprike For if euery priest of the diocesse should in all poinctes bée of equall authoritie with the bishop there would arise so many Schismes by the arrogancie of the priestes as there bée priestes And for this cause hath euery bishop an authoritie pearelesse as M. Dorman dooth translate it and aboue all other priestes in his diocesse For it is euident by the places before alledged that comparison is made betwene priestes deacons and cuvates in smal tounes and villages who haue authoritie to baptise beeyng many and betwene the Bishop of the diocesse who is one and the high prieste in the saied diocesse and hath authoritie pearelesse ouer all other priestes and deacoÌ„s in the same diocesse And that there is no comparison here made betwene the bishoppe of Rome as the high prieste or bishop ouer all other priestes and bishops as D. Hardyng and M. DormaÌ„ without all shame would wrest it whereas there is not one woorde from the beginnyng of that longe dialogue of S. Hieromes vnto this place by them alleged nor to the ende of the same either written or meante of the bishop of Rome but of euery Bishop in his owne diocesse And therefore this whole matter is altogether impertinente to D. Hardyng and M. Dormans purpose of one onely heade ouer the whole Churche vnlesse M. Dorman would frame vs therof this leude argument Sainct Hierome saith that euery bishop ought to haue authoritie aboue all other priestes of his owne diocesse ergo the Bishop of Rome ought to haue a preemineÌ„ce pearelesse aboue all bishops of all diocesses and ouer the whole churche throughout the whole worlde Whiche maie well bee M. DormaÌ„s reason but fure I am that no reasonable man beyng awake will so reason To conclude you see it is not without great cause that D. Hardyng in his booke calleth this place of S. Hierome a notable place and saieth that it maie not be lette passe whiche his maisters woordes M. Dorman well noting â–ª would not suffer it to passe vntill he had by the handelyng thereof declared his notable foolishenesse Wherein as I doo little merueil of M. Dorman whom the leudeâ— the writyng is the better it dooeth become hym so can I not but muche muse how it should come to passe that doctor Hardyng or any of any honestie and learnyng should so abuse hymself and the readers with the allegation of suche impertinente places and with what conscience and shamefastnesse thei can doo it Vnlesse thei thinke that this excuse maie serue in matters of religion also Dolus an virtus quis in hoste requirat which is to saie What matter maketh it whether you vse fine force plaine truthe or guile with an enemie And therefore thei deale with vs rather as enemies then as doeth become themselues beyng Christians or as apperteineth to the treatie of religion woorthie of al truthe sinceritie Dorman fol. 5. And againe in an other place speakyng of the apostles he writeth thus Quòd vnus posteà electus est qui caeteris praeponeretur in schismatis remâ—dium factum est ne vnusquisque ad se traâ—ens ecclesiam rumperet That is That one was afterwarde chosen to rule the reste that was dooen for a remedie against schismes least while euery man would chalenge to hymself the churche by suche halyng and pullyng thei might breake the same No well S. Hierâ—me in his epistle to Euagrius she weth that praesbyter and episcopus a Priest and a bishop bee all one by the firste institution and by the Lawe of God whiche he proueth by many testimonies of the scâ—ipâ—ures and withall he declareth that the Apostles themselues were called praesbyteri that is to saie elders or priestes So that all bishops whiche be the successours of the Apostles bee also praesbyteri that is to saie
impudente that he cared not whom he brought or what he saied so he mighte seeme to saie and bryng somethyng were it neuer so farre from or so muche against his purpose Dorman Fol. 5. 6. Leo of whom the whole Councell of Calcedon as one of the greatest for nomber so of all men accoÌ„pted emongeste the fower generall for authoritie reported so honourably that thei did not onely with one voice all openly professe themselues to beleue as he did but called him also by the name of Sanctissimus et beatissimus that is moste holie and blessed of all other speakyng of the misticall bodie of Christes Churche writeth after this sort Haec connâ—xio totius quidem corporis vnanimitatem requirit c This combination and ioignyng together he speaketh of the bodie of Christes Churche requireth an vnitie of the whole bodie but especially of the priestes emongest whom although there be one dignitie common to them all yet is there not one generall order emongest them all For euen emongest the blessed Apostles in that similitude of honor was there yet a difference of power and whereas in their election thei were all like yet was it geuen to one to bee aboue all the rest Out of whiche forme is taken our difference of Bishoppes and by merueilous order and disposition is it prouided that euery one should not chalenge to hymself euery thyng but that in euery Prouince there should bee one whose iudgement emongest the reste of his brethren should bee chief and of moste authoritie And againe certain appoincted in greater cities whose care should be greater by whom to the only seate of Peter the charge of the vniuersall Churche might haue recourse that nothyng might at any tyme dissent from the head Nowell The Councell of Calcedon professed that thei beleued as did Leo concerning the moste blessed Trinitie condemned Eutyches heresie but what is that to the purpose We professe that we doo therein beleue as did Leo and we doo like wise condemne the heresie of Eutyches For that the saied Councell calleth hym Sanctissimum beatissimum the moste holie and blessed what maketh that for his supremacie All the Priestes and deacons of Rome doo call S. Cyprian bishoppe of Carthage Beatissimum gloriosissimum papam the moste blessed and moste glorious Pope as I haue before noted and yet I thinke that M. Dorman will not therefore graunt sainct Cyprian the supremacie But what the Councell of Calcedon graunted to Leo Bishop of Rome or is feigned to haue graunted to hym or what thei graunted equallie with hym to Anatholius bishop of Constantinople and what Leo did like or mislike allowe or reiect of the said Councell I shall haue more conueniente place to declare afterwardes where M. Dorman dooeth more speciallie entreate of the saied councell Now concernyng this epistle by M. Dorman alleged this is first moste euident that the epistles caried about in the names of the firste auncient Popes are either forged or at the leaste corrupted by their ambitious successours of later tyme to make a shewe of the antiquitie of their chalenge of the supremacie and this to bée true is easie to perceiue by many circumstances as shall hereafter at large bee declared But be it that these be Leos owne woordes and were this Leo accompted neuer so holie yet I trust he beyng bishop of Rome maie netther bee his owne witnesse nor iudge in his owne cause of the Popes supremacie The holiest and the beste men that bee are lightly partiall in their owne matters Wherefore Christ our sauiour moste woorthie of all credite saieth Si testimonium perhibeam de meipso testimonium meum non est verum If I beare witnesse of my self my testimonie is not true whiche he saieth for that were his testimonie neuer so true as it was euer moste true yet beyng of hymself it would not be taken of men as true as it appeareth by the woordes of the Phariseis to our sauiour Tu de teâ—pso testimonium perhibes c. Thou say the Phariseis beareth witnesse of thy self thy witnesse is not true If Christes woordes maie not here take place let the Pope then cause this note to be blotted out of his own canon lawe also Papa iudex esse noÌ„ debet in causa propria The Pope maie not bee iudge in his owne cause For it standeth there in vaine as it seemeth To the whiche yet it appeareth that Pighius in the fifte booke of his Hierarchie had a respece for he allegyng a Clementine that is to saie a Popes decree for his purpose hath these woordes Quum Clementinam audis nolo imagineris audire te vnius hominis Romani pontificis in sua ipsius causa sententiam sed cogita te sententiam audire Viennensis concilij in quo ex vniuersa ecclesia conueneruÌ„t plusquaÌ„ 300 episcopi That is to saie When thou hearest the name of a Clementine I would not haue thee to imagine that thou hearest the iudgemente of one man to witte the bishop of Rome in his own cause but consider that thou doest heare the Sentence of the Councell of Vienne in the whiche moe then 300. Bishops were assembled out of the vniuersall Churche Thus farre Pighius Wherby it maie seeme that he dooeth not thinke the Popes onely testimonie in his owne cause to be sufficient D. Hardyng who dooeth folowe Pighius verie muche saieth that he will not allege the testimonies of many Popes for the proofe of the supremacie for that wee doo make though without all cause saieth he exception against the popes as vnlawfull witnesses in their own cause And therefore he is somewhat more shamefaste then M. Dorman and hath onely noted this epistle of Pope Leo whiche M. Dorman thus largely rehearseth and with marginall notes so beautifieth as some speciall place to prooue the Popes supremacie As he laith on loade coÌ„tinually not of popishe witnesses but Popes theÌ„selues witnesses in their owne false claime though he can not dissemble hymself in an other place but that wee maie make exception vnto them as not indifferent witnesses in their owne quarelles Well if these causes of exception to Popes in their own cause whiche I haue alleged shall not seeme to D. Harding and M. Dorman sufficiente I trust yet that all reasonable indifferent men shall iudge them sufficient And for more reasonable cause of exceptioÌ„ to this Leo here and all other Popes too in this matter wee saie that Zozimus or Sosimus bishop of Rome about a. 24. yeres before this Leo moued with an ambitious desire of this supremacie which the bishops of Rome his successours now striue for as it were pro aris focis for life and death as one might saie did corrupte and falsifie the decrees of the Nicene Councell pretendyng that it was decreed in that Councell that the bishop of Rome should be the chief iudge aboue all other bishops that it should
ages testifie the same What nedeth muche repetitiō of antiquities As though it were vnknowen what contentions haue euer been emongest the Papistes themselues as betwene the Canonistes and schole doctours betwene Scotus and Thomas betwene Alliacensis and Occam and of late tyme betwene Catetanus and Pighius and as though at this presente tyme all Papistes agreed emongest themselues in the principall poinctes of their religion where thei as shal in place conueniente be declared dooe exceadingly not onely varie but repugne one againste an other And what bee these names Thomistes Scotistes Nominalles and Realles but names of schismes What be these Benedictines Cistertians Carmelites Chartusians Dominicans Franciscans with others like an huge number but names of Popishe schismes sectes Who all forsakyng the religion and name of Christe common to all true christians haue chosen to be called religious as by a speciall name of a seuerall religion and to bee named after men their fathers on earth forsakyng the heauenlie father and continuyng and accomplishyng the schisme firste begunne in S. Paules time after the exāple of those who said I am of Paule I of Cephas I of Apollo saiyng I am of Dominike I of Benedicte I of Francise who also maie directly answere S. Paule askyng was Paule or any other sauyng onely Christe crucified for you Yea maie the Franciscanes saie S. Francise was crucified for vs of his familie and beholde the woundes in his side handes and feete If S. Paule aske againe is Iesus Christ diuided Yea maie a false hypocrite one of the secte of the Iesuites say for we haue th' one part of Iesus therof called Iesuites and haue left the other part Christe to the seelie soules abroade to holde them selues contēted therewith and with the name of christians thereof deriued Why is Iesus one then and Christ an other Be there twoo Christes then or one diuided into twoo One of these must needes be els if Iesus Christ be not twoo but one as he is moste certainly one and beyng not diuided as he moste certainelie is whole then are you Iesuites were your religion good nothing els but Christians then are all Christians Iesuites also then do◠you in vaine bragge of a seuerall name of religiō if your and our religion bee one But if your religion be hypocrisie as it is in déede then haue you stirred vp an horrible schisme diuiding and cutting the glorious name of Iesus Christ in the whiche onely is saluatiō yea tearyng Christe hymself in pieces infinitely more wickedly and cruelly then euer did the wicked souldiars that crucified Christ who had a remorse to cut his coate asonder And leaste all these sectes of hypocrites should not bee knowen sufficiently by onely diuersitie of names thei haue by other infinite waies and meanes iraueiled to seuer their sectes asunder studiyng for diuisiō as for the beste and fliyng all shewe of vnitie as the worste of all thinges Wherefore to their diuersitie of names thei haue ioigned diuersitie of fashions and diuersitie of colours in their apparell diuersitie of girdles hose and shooes diuersitie of shauyng diuersitie of goyng beckyng and bowyng diuersitie of diete and meates diuersitie of readyng syngyng and tunyng diuersitie of Churche seruice and diuersitie of rules of life All tymes would faile me if I should or could rehearse all their diuersities whiche is the verie propertie of schismes and sectes These be those schismatikes and sectaries with an infinite multitude whereof of late Englande was repleanished of the whiche now thankes bee to God the realme is well ridde so that if you mete a thousande men and wemen one after an other seuerally and aske of them of what religion bee you Thei shall all and euery one answere you I am a christian we bée all christians there shall not one answere to you as was wonte vnder your head I am of the religion of S. Francisce a Franciscane an other I am a Dominicane the thirde I am a Carmelite Et sic de singulis One woman shal not answere you I am a Brigittine an other I am a Clarane the third I am a Beguine whiche are all names of abominable sectes and schismes not onely diuidyng but deniyng but forgettyng but reiectyng the religion and name of Iesus Christ and choosyng the names and religion of sinfull synners and counterfaite hypocrites moste wicked and so muche the more wicked for that thei cloked their wickednes vnder names of holinesse religion These so diuers sectes of false religion being well abandoned now out of Englande and the one true religion of our sauiour Iesus Christe onely here remainyng I marueill with what face you can charge vs with schismes and sectes which is your own speciall sore And where you warne the readers vpon experience of the multitude of schismes lately risen sithen the forsakyng of that one Popishe head to creadite the auncient fathers as witnessyng with you against vs you might as iustly warne them to creadite the aunciente Phariseis rather then Christe and his Apostles bothe for that the first heresie as S. Augustine saieth sprange emongest the disciples of Christe many of them departyng from hym vpon the occasion of his preachyng seemyng to them to be heard and also for that in the Apostles time some vsed suche schismaticall saiynges as these Wee holde of Paule some other wee holde of Cephas the thirde sorte we holde of Apollo whereas there was no suche dissention emongest the high priestes and Phariseis but greate vnitie and concorde emongest them againste Christes Apostles and againe for that diuers greater schismes of the Nicolaites the Symoniās the Cerinthians the Menandrians the Saturninians the Carpocratians the Basilidians with an huge number moe did rise with and shortly after the firste preachyng of the Gospell as Darnell secreatlie sowen by the enemie springeth vp with the good corne sowen by the husbandeman and specially for that great schisme whiche Christe and his Apostles made from the highe Priestes and their Churche whiche S. Paule made against the Phariseis whō he beyng brought vp from his childhood emongest them did so schismatically forsake and cleaue vnto Christ their aduersarie Wherevpon in steede of greate quietnesse in one doctrine and traditions of their fathers of great looue emongest all Priestes and Phariseis throughout all Iurie and the whole Iewishe churche before did folowe greate diuisions trubles did arise not onely in Iurie but shortly after ouer al the worlde Wherof our sauour Christ himself was accused as appeareth in the historie of the Gospell and S. Paule with other the Apostles were likewise accused as is to be seen in the Acttes of the Apostles and in like maner the whole christian religion was in the primitiue Churche of all enemies bothe derided as diuided into many schismes and sectes as doeth by histories ecclesiasticall appeare and also charged as the cause of all mischieues and troubles that ouerwhelmed the worlde as by Origen saincte Augustine S.
erat sancta quę apud impios non erat Nunc autē aut tales aut peiores facti sunt Christiani quales sūt hęretici aut gentiles adhuc autem maior continētia apud illos inuenitur quamuis in schismate sint quà m apud Christianos Qui ergo vult cognoscere quae sit vera ecclesia Christi vnde cognoscat nisi tantummodo per scripturas Sciens ergo Dominus tantam confusionem rerum in nouissimis diebus esse futuram ideo mandat vt Christiani qui sunt ī Christianitate volentes firmitatem accipere verae fidei ad nullam rem fugiant nisi ad scripturas Alioqui si ad alia respexerint scandalizabūtur peribunt non intelligentes quae sit vera ecclesia That is to saie Let them that bee in Christianitie flie to the scriptures And wherfore ought al Christians at this time to flie to the scriptures Because in this time sith heresies possessed those Churches there can bee no proofe of true christianitie neither can there be any other refuge of Christians desiryng to knowe the true faithe but the diuine scriptures For before it was declared by many meanes whiche was the true churche and whiche was Gentilitie but now thei who would knowe whiche is the true churche can knowe it by no meanes but onelie by the scriptures Why so For all these thinges whiche are properly Christes in y e truth the same hath heresie also in schisme Heresie hath churches likewise and the diuine Scriptures likewise Bishops likewise and other orders of clearkes Baptisme likewise the sacramente of thankes geuyng likewise and all other thinges to conclude euen Christ himself He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true churche of Christ how can he knowe it in so greate cōfusion of likelihoode but onely by the scriptures Further the churche of Christ might be knowen before by the maners of it when the conuersation either of all or of the moste parte of Christians was holie whiche was not so emongest the wicked But now Christians are become either suche or woorse then be the heretikes or Gentiles yea there is greater continencie emongeste them though thei bee in schisme then is emongest the Christians He therefore that would knowe whiche is the true Churche of Christe how can he knowe it but onelie by the scriptures The Lorde therefore knowyng that in the last daies there would be so greate confusion of thinges dooeth commaunde that Christians whiche be in Christianitie willyng to haue the suertie of true faithe dooe flie to no other thing but to the scriptures Els if thei haue respecte to other thynges thei shall stumble or faile of the truthe and perishe not vnderstāding whiche is the true churche Thus farre that aunciente author whose sentence and verie woordes though for auoidyng of prolixitie alittle intermitted I haue truely rehearsed You maie see that this auncient writer will not allowe that you beeyng the one partie should claime to your self the name of Christians the name of the churche the names of bishops and the names of the cleargie and so to take vpon you as iudges to condemne the other partie but that bothe you and wee must be iudged and tried whether we be in Christianitie and in the true church by the scriptures You see the names of the churche of Bishops and cleargie whiche are common to heretikes with Christians can not prooue you to bee catholikes for that heretikes vse the same names but that bothe you and wee muste knowe by the Scriptures whether wee bee in the true faithe or no for that as he saieth in this confusion of thinges bothe the true churche and the true faith must bee knowen by the Scriptures onelie and by no other thyng and that whosoeuer goeth aboute otherwise to knowe them shall stumble and perishe Wherein this author dooeth agree with S. Augustine S. Hierome S. Chrysostome and with all the olde Doctours of the auncient churche Whereby al men maie well vnderstande that it is not our newe opinion as M. Dorman would haue it seme but the olde true perswasion of all the auncient doctors and godly fathers of the primitiue churche that the Scriptures as moste indifferent and certaine ought to be iudges in controuersies in religion rather then Doctours then Councelles then your Churche then dead menne then angelles yea that the scriptures should bee iudge and not thei And that the true sense of scriptures if doubte rise thereof maie bee and must be gathered by the conference of the scriptures who doo clearly expounde themselues For the declaration whereof the said doctors doo so often and largely write that the rehersall thereof would fil an huge volume but I did thinke that this much would suffice But you Papistes will neuer allowe the Scripture as iudge nor the sense thereof to be certaine vntill it come to the exposition of the Churche and you will bee that churche that must so expounde it your self that is you will graūt no sense to be true but your own sense But wee deny that you are the true Churche that hath this autoritie of determinyng of the sense of the scriptures And if you will saie still your are the churche neither will nor can proue it but onely by so saiyng we be not so voide of all sense and vnderstāding but that we perceiue you will haue no sense but your owne and that you will be still bothe parties and iudges in your own causes againste vs as the Iuishe high Prieste Phariseis and Scribes would needes be against Christ and his Apostles who did by your iudgemēt as it semeth allege the scriptures for themselues againste the saied high Prieste Scribes and Phariseis in vaine for that thei being the churche as you now be were the iudges of the sense of the saied scriptures by Christ and his Apostles alleged And I am sure that the high Prieste with his Iuishe churche was able to saie as muche for the ordinarie succession of the high Priestes his predecessours euen from Aaron vntil his time for antiquitie for consente and for vniuersalitie againste Christe and his Apostles so fewe in comparison and as it seemed latelie starte vp as you are able to saie for your churche or against vs. But yet we doo thinke that the woorde of God as it was alleged by Christe and his Apostles against the saied high priest and his churche so maie it and ought also to be alleged by vs against your high priest and your churche and that the same woords of God whiche shal iudge bothe you vs in the worlde to come as is saied ought also to be iudge betwéen you and vs here in this transitorie worlde for so dooeth our sauiour Christ teache so doo S. Chrysostome S. Augustine and S. Hierome with all the auncient doctors of the Churche teache also as hath been partely besore specified crie you neuer so muche to the contrarie and make you neuer so many exceptions to the scriptures and claime
now to helpe the poore surmised felone somwhat if he appealyng for the triall of his innocencie to God can bryng for hym so many testimonies of Gods owne mouthe as wee are able for our innocencie to brynge testimonies of woordes proceadyng from the mouthe of God and of our sauiour Iesus Christ and yet it will not serue the seelie felowe nor healpe hym any thyng in his plea of not guiltie then I thinke there can not bee a fitter lawe whereby to proceade againste hym then the Popes Canons whiche you knowe well M. Dorman for you haue therein spente more tyme then in the studie of the Scriptures neither can he haue a meeter iudge to condemne hym then the Pope hymself and an handsomer man emongest all men to bee I will not saie his hangman but the foreman of a Popishe quest to passe against the seelie soule shall not any manne I beleue easilie finde nor a fitter then is M. Dorman And thus I lette this his parable passe For that he by the waie saith that there is in our case beside the scriptures an other heade to order vs and kéepe vs vnder meanyng the Pope it is true there is suche a one in deede that hath too longe kepte vs and all the worlde too vnder by his false hypocrisie and horrible tyrannie and he maie also bee called an heade of the churche by the same phrase as Sardanapalus Nero Heliogabalus and suche like monsters were named heades of the coÌ„mon wealthe whiche thei vtterly subuerted and he is in deede the head and husbande too of that cruell stepdame the Popishe Synagoge beeyng a moste horrible murtherer of those whose mother she would be accompted to be That he saieth Christe the thief heade of all vseth in all necessarie knowledge to geue answere by this head to witte the Pope it is M. Dormans position and a false fable The filthie spirites that are called Ventriloqui are more méete to geue answere by suche a polluted mouth Now that it pleaseth M. Dorman to ioigne vs with felons and to conclude that wee as well as thei bee theeues and that as felons would without controlment robbe the bodie so would we doo murther mennes soules he fareth herein with vs as did an hastie scholde once with an honest woman callyng her whoore at the first woorde for feare leaste the other should haue happened firste vpon her name whiche was the same For it is well knowen to the worlde that the Papistes themselues be rather theues and murtherers who by their pardons and Masses and other suche their pedlar pilfrey set a sale haue picked all mennes purses and of the temple of God by suche buiyng and selling haue made a deÌ„ne of theeues and vnder the colour of long praiers of Diriges soule Masses and Trentalles haue spoiled poore widowes houses often tymes takyng awaie by the name of a Mortuarie the onely Cowe whiche with her Milke should haue fedde the sorowfull poore widowe and a seelie sorte of fatherlesse children Whiche Papistes also as thei haue with all crueltie murthered infinite numbers of Christian mennes bodies so haue thei by their poysoned doctrine slaine infinitelie moe thousandes of mennes soules then thei haue murdered bodies and so haue plaied all partes and fulfilled all poinctes of perfecte theeues and murderers too So that a Popishe prieste might moste iustlie bee termed by a Plautine periphrasis trifur trifurcifer Dorman Fol. 9. But let vs examine this reason of theirs wherof thei are wont so muche to triumphe Christe is head of the Churche Ergo the Pope is not Ergo it can haue no other head That Christ is the head of the Churche wee grauÌ„ted before and none of our side did euer yet denie it But as it is moste manifest that Christ himself is the worker of all his sacramentes for he baptizeth he forgeueth sinnes he coÌ„secrateth his blessed body bloud he ioigneth together in Matrimonie the man and his wife yet forasmuche as he should needes depart out of this worlde and could not alwaies dwell with vs after a corporall maner he hath chosen ministers to dispense those giftes by and we saie and no faulte founde therewith that the prieste his minister baptizeth that he forgeueth sinnes that he consecrateth his most pretious body and bloud So after the same maner and for the same cause that is to saie because he could not bee alwaies presente with vs in suche sorte as we might see hym and speake with hym face to face to bee resolued at his mouth of suche doutes and questions as should arise amongst vs he left vs also one that in his absence should gouerne and rule his whole churche He remaineth neuerthelesse head thereof he ruleth he reigneth he exerciseth his power and authoritie in the same but yet by maÌ„ his minister whoÌ„ for that cause moste aptly the Scholasticall writers haue termed caput ministeriale that is to saie a heade but yet by the reason of his seruice and ministerie vnder an other that is Christ who is onely absolutely simplie and without all relation to any other the head therof Not as though he were not able to rule the same without any suche help or instrument whiche he could haue dooen also in the old law where his pleasure was that the people should resort to the chief priest to be resolued in all doutes arisyng apoÌ„ the lawe and had no more nede of helpe then then he hath now but for that this waie it hath pleased hym to showe his exceding greate loue towardes mankind by choosing out of emongest men suche as he wil execute his will by in this worlde suche as he wil vse as his mouthe to interprete the secretes of his holie pleasure to vs and finallie suche as should represente to vs his owne parsone Nowell Now that M. Dorman hath refreshed his readers with his pleasaunte pastyme folowyng the preceptes of his Rhetorike he retourneth to earnest againe and falleth to examination of this reason Christe is head of the Churche Ergo the Pope is not Ergo it can haue none other heade The antecedente he graunteth confessyng that none of their sorte euer denied it though a little before he made a greate wonderyng at it inquiryng by a musing interrogatorie what head thinke you good readers appoincte thei to gouerne Christes church c. And the argumeÌ„t also is good the churche beyng taken as it is there in the Apologie for the vniuersall churche which hath not nor can possiblie haue any one earthly head ouer it to gouerne it as hath béen often at large heretofore declared Maister Dormans examples of Christes ministers of his holie SacrameÌ„tes here in earth make rather against hym then with hym for one chief heade hath many vnderministers in diuers seruices and places vsuallie but what perteineth that to proue that there muste bee one â—eade ouer all places and seruices ecclesiasticall throughout the whole worlde Whiche is vnpossible to bee Neither can your
woorde of God is the true light wherein wee endeuoure our selues to our power to walke Your vnwritten verities are more meeter for blinde Battes to flitter in Wee haue our heade and Iudge in heauen one Christe onelie and in earth one prince and other ministers bothe ecclesiasticall and ciuill to gouerne and Iudge vs accordyng to his holie woorde To iuggle and to coniure too bée your owne Popishe properties we haue nothing to doo with theÌ„ And thus I haue answered M. Dormans asseueratioÌ„s in this place by shorte poinctes which maie suffice seyng he onely saith his pleasure proueth nothing at al. Dorman Fol. 14. Tell them that you haue seen them thriue so euell apon that presumption of theirs so many heresies so many schismes and leude opinions broughte in thereby that you are at a poincte with your selues to leaue them and take that waie that Saincte Hierome in the like case hath doen before you who although his knowledge in the tongues were suche as by the reporte of moste men it passed any others in his tyme yet would not he take vpon hym in the discussyng of doutes to leane to that rule of theirs to laâ—e and conferre together one texte with an other but referryng hymself to the see of Rome he alwaies protested that by that seate and faithe praised by the Apostles owne mouth would he be counceled and ruled Beatitudini tuae id est cathedrae Petri communione consocior To your holines saieth he writyng to Damasus then the Bishoppe of Rome that is to saie to Peters chaire am I ioigned in communion and he addeth a cause whie Super illam Petram aedificatam ecclesiam scio I knowe that on that rocke Peters chaire the Churche is builded Nowell The Pope and Papistes haue thriuen so well vpon their striuyng againste the truthe of Goddes woorde that I trust all the worlde shortly will be at a poinct to leaue them Saincte Hierome saieth no where that he would not compare the scriptures together for the discussyng of doubtes as M. Dorman would beare vs in hande and S. Augustine saieth he would dooe it and exhorteth other to dooe the same S. Hieromes woordes to Damasus Bishop of Rome make nothyng againste vs nor with M. Dorman For what meruaile is it if that sainct Hierome borne in a coaste of Italie Christened at Rome brought vp at Rome and made priest at Rome would in the faith of the blessed Trinitie rather ioigne himself in communion with Damasus Bishop of Rome a learned and godlie man then with Vitalis and Meletius whom M. Dorman calleth Miletus and Paulinus who were Antiochian bishops and therefore straungers to him and also not cleare from the Arrian heresie What argument can M. Dorman frame hereof Hierome a Prieste of Rome c. ioigned hymself in communion to his owne bishoppe Damasus Ergo we Englishemen musie ioigne our selues likewise to the bishoppe of Rome that now is beyng bothe a forainer and an enemie Againe Hierome ioigned in communion with Damasus a godlie bishoppe of Rome Ergo we must submit our selues to a false vsurper and enemie of God and all godlinesse Naie it foloweth rather thus As saincte Hierome refused to ioigne hymself to Vitalis bishoppe of Antiochia and an Arrian bothe because he was a straunger and also an heretike and ioigned hymself to Damasus his owne Bishoppe and a godlie Bishop so ought wée to refuse the Pope beyng bothe a foraine vsurper and a false heretike to ioigne againste hym with our owne godlie bishops at home But will M. Dorman saie saincte Hierome addeth a cause whiche is the pith of the matter saiyng thus Super illam petram c. I knowe that vpon that rocke Peters chaire the Churche is builded whiche is the cause why S. Hierome ioigned with Damasus will he saie But he maie be ashamed had he any shame at al thus shamefully by a false parenthesis to intermingle these woordes Peters chaire in this sentence of S. Hierome and so to falsifie it as though S. Hierome had saied or ment in this place that the Popes chaire is the rocke whereon the Churche is builded And now maie ye see to what ende all M. Dormans long former drifte commeth to witte to bryng vs from the scriptures to Peters chaire that is the Popes consistorie there to bee iudged whiche now at the laste after so long suspensioÌ„ and delaie vnder S. Hieromes name but moste falsly he hath vttered For the more plain declaration wherof I will report here sainct Hieromes woordes a little more largely then M. Dorman hath dooen whiche are these Facessat inuidia Romani culminis recedat ambitio cuÌ„ successore piscatoris discipulo crucis loquor Ego nullum primum nisi Christum sequens Beatitudinis tuae id est Cathedrae Petri communione consocior super illam Petram aedificatam Ecclesiam scio Quicunque extra hanc domum agnum comederit prophanus est Si quis in Arca Nohae non fuerit peribit regnante diluuio That is to saie Let enuie auoide let the ambition of the height of Rome departe I speake to the successour of the fisher and a disciple of the crosse I folowyng no chief or head but Christ am ioigned in communion to your holines to saie Peters chaire vpon that rocke I knowe the Churche to bee builded whosoeuer eateth the Lambe without this house he is prophane or vnholie If one be not in the arke of Nohe he shall perishe when the floud is aloft Thus farre S. Hierome Now if a manne would aske of M. Dorman why he left out those twoo lines wherein S. Hierome admonisheth Damasus as the successour of the poore fisher Peter to laie aside all ambitioÌ„ whiche the greatnesse of the citie of Rome might mooue hym too and withall affirmeth that he will folowe no chief head but Christe whiche woordes are ioigned and by a participle dependyng to that whiche M. Dorman alleged whatsoeuer he shall answere thereto I knowe the true answere M. Dorman did of falsehood and corruption of the meanyng of sainct Hierome thus detrunke and mangle his sentence for he did sée that S. Hierome admonishing Damasus of humilitie and withall professyng hymself to folowe no chief or head but Christ not exceptyng Damasus case but rather affirmyng hym not to be Primum the chief maketh clearely with vs who in this controuersie of the Popes vsurped supremacie saie the same We folow no head but Christ we ioigne in communion with none but suche as folowe hym c. Furthermore he did see that the woordes of S. Hierome folowyng vpoÌ„ this rocke I know the church to bee builded might and ought to bee referred vnto Christe mentioned by S. Hierome so nere before and by Peter coÌ„fessed to be that rocke wheron the churche is builded and therefore M. Dorman left out of saincte Hieromes sentence the meÌ„tion of Christ that he might most falsly and blasphemously referre the rocke to Peters chaire as though Peters
rotten chaire or ruinous Rome were the rocke whereon the churche of our sauior Christ is builded And to make the purposed wickednesse of these aduersaries of the verie rocke Christe and his truthe who care not what thei allege for the maintenaunce of their desperate cause of the Popes supremacie though theÌ„selues dooe knowe it serueth nothing for their purpose at all more manifeste to all the worlde I lette the reader vnderstande that Erasmus in his scholies or annotations vpon this epistle whiche M. Dorman were he not asleape muste needes see did warne him that he should not after this sorte so falsifie S. Hierome in this place For though he coÌ„fesse that S. Hierome might seeme by this place to thinke that all churches ought to be vnder the Romaine see or at the leaste not straungers from it yet when he noteth vpon these woordes I knowe the churche is builded vpoÌ„ that rocke he saieth Super illam PetraÌ„ c. Non super Romam vt arbitror nam fieri potest vt Roma quoque degeneret sed super eam fidem quam Petrus professus est quam hactenus Romana seruauit ecclesia qua non alia minus laborauit haeresibus That is to saie Vpon this rocke not vpon Rome I trow for it maie come to passe that Rome also goe out of kinde but vpon the faith whiche Peter professed and the whiche hither to the Romain churche hath kept then the whiche church no other hath been lesse infected with heresies Thus farre Erasmus cleane contrary to M. Dorman and all Papistes who would haue the Romaine see to bee the rocke wheron Christes churche is builded and that the said see can not possibly erre Yea and further the same Erasmus in the beginnyng of his argument vpon his treatie againste the Luciferians whiche is nexte to his twoo epistles to Damasus hath these woordes Nulla haeresis grauius afflixit totius orbis ecclesias quà m Arrianorum adeò vt Romanum quoque pontificem ipsos inuoluerit imperatores That is to say No heresie hath more greuouslie afflicted the Churches of all the worlde then the Arrians in so muche that it hath wrapped in the Bishop of Rome and the Emperours themselues Thus farre Erasmus It pleaseth M. Dorman sometyme to allege Erasmus against vs whose authoritie if it bee good doune goeth the Pope and all Poperie for if the bishoppes of Rome haue been infected with heresie their Chaire is not that vnmoueable rocke as M. Dorman would haue it Now if M. Dorman did not see these notes of Erasmus vpon the place by hym alleged out of S. Hierome I praise his diligence he maie of Dorman bee called Dormitantius as sainct Hierome whom he falsely allegeth called Vigilantius and more iustlie bothe by nature and sounde of name maie M. DormaÌ„ be so called then euer was Vigilantius by sainct Hierome But if M. Dorman did see Erasmus note and dissembled it as he did see these S. Hieromes woordes I folowyng no heade but Christe nexte and moste necessarilie ioigned to the sentence by hym alleged and yet of purpose cutte them of by the necke then is M. Dormans candor and sinceritie vsuall to hym throughout all his booke moste woorthie of plentifull Popishe praise But if Erasmus iudgemente and authoritie be nothyng woorthe but onelie when he seemeth to speake againste vs then I will yet in Christes quarell that he is the Rocke not Peters rotten chaire bring foorth one witnesse not onely greater then Erasmus but also equall with S. Hierome and aboue all Papistes in creadite and authoritie S. Augustine in his 13. Sermon vpon the Gospell of Mathewe hath these woordes Quia tu dixisti mihi inquit Christus Petro Tu es Christus filius Dei viui ego tibi tu es Petrus Simon quippe antè vocabatur hoc autem nomen vt Petrus appellaretur ei à domino impositum est hoc vt ea figura significaret Ecclesiam Quia enim Christus Petra Petrus populus christianus Petra enim principale nomen est ideo Petrus à Petra non Petra à Petro quomodo non à christiano Christê° sed à Christo christianus vocatur Tu es ergouÌ„quit Petrus super hanc Petram quam confessus es super haÌ„c Petram quaÌ„ cognouisti dicens tu es Chrstus filius dei viui aedificabo ecclesiam meam id est super meipsum filium dei viui aedificabo ecclesiam meam Super me aedificabo te non me super te NaÌ„ volentes homines Ä™dificari super homines dicebant ego quidem sum Pauli ego autem Apollo ego verò Cephae ipse est Petrus Et alij qui nolebant aedificari super Petrum sed super Petram ego autem sum Christi Apostolus autem Paulus vbi cognouit se eligi Christum coÌ„temni diuisus est inquit Christus Nunquid Paulus pro vobis crucifixus est aut in nomine Pauli baptizati estis Quomodo noÌ„ in Pauli sic nec in Petri sed iÌ„ nomine Christi vt Petrus edificaretur super PetraÌ„ non Petra supra PetruÌ„ c. That is to saie Because thou haste saied to me saieth Christe to Peter Thou art Christe the sonne of the liuyng God I dooe also saie to thee thou art Peter for before he was called Simon but this name that he should be called Peter was geuen him of the Lorde to th' ende that by that figure he might signifie y e churche For because Christe is Petra the Rocke Petrus is the Christian people For Petra is the principal name and therefore Petrus cometh of Petra and not Petra of Petrus as Christus Christe is not named à Christiano of a Christian but Christianus a Christian is named of Christus Christ Therefore saith Christ Thou art Peter and vpon this rocke which thou hast confessed vpoÌ„ this rocke whiche thou hast knowen saiyng Thou art Christe the sonne of the liuyng God I will builde my churche that is vpon my self beyng the sonne of the liuyng God will I builde my churche I will builde thée vpon me not me vpon thee For men y e would be builded vpoÌ„ men did saie I am of Paule I of Apollo and I of Cephas that is of Peter And other who would not bee builded vpon Petrum Peter but vpon Petram the rocke did saie I am of Christe And the Apostle Paule wheÌ„ he did knowe that he was chosen or preferred and Christ despised by some men saied is Christe diuided Was Paule crucified for you Or were you Baptized in the name of Paule And as not in Paules name no more were ye baptized in the name of Peter but in the name of Christ that Peter might be builded vpon the rocke not the rocke vpon Peter and so foorthe Thus farre S. Augustine And the same interpretation and defence that Christ is the rocke and not Peter doeth sainct Augustine againe in his Retractations repete and maintaine Wherefore you see maister Dorman
by saincte Augustine that Christe is that rocke whereon the Churche is builded and not Peter nor Peters chaire vnlesse you take Peters confession made before be came at Rome to be his Chaire and then ye make with S. Augustine and vs against the Pope for Rome was not his chaire before he was bishop there You see that Peter is here the figure of the whole Churche in makyng his confessiō not of the churche of Rome onely you see that as Christe is the rocke so representeth Peter the christian people and not the people of Rome onely muche lesse the Pope onely you see that Petrus to saie the Churche is builded vpon Petra Christ and not Petra Christe builded vpon Petrus Peter you see that suche as will haue Peter beyng a man to be their rocke to builde vpon bee sectaries and heretikes diuidyng them selues from Christe despisyng hym and choosyng men and that thei onely be true Christians whiche wil not builde vpon Peter nor vpon any other man but vpon the rocke onely whiche is Christ hymself you see thei that builde vpon Peter maie saie I holde of Cephas whiche is Peter but thei that builde vpon the rocke maie saie I holde or I am of Christe Wherefore I conclude that all that builde vpon the Pope or his chaire as it were vpon the rocke as thei bée called so bee thei in deede Papistes not Christians as were all those false orders of hypocrites who forsakyng to builde vpon the rocke Christ and buildyng vpon men woorse then Peter Paule or Apollo a thousande tymes forsooke to saie Ego sum Christi I am of Christ I am a Christian and saied Ego Franciscanus ego Dominicanus c. I am of Francisce I am of Dominike a Franciscane a Dominicane a Bernardine yea an Augustinian cōtrary to this doctrine of S. Augustine whiche argueth that those hypocrites were neuer of his institution as thei falsely feigned thē selues to be And as S. Augustine witnesseth with Erasmus that Christe is Petra and not Peter nor Rome Peters chaire or see so hath Erasmus felowe witnesses enough of the auncient doctours of the churche yea and generall Councelles too that Popes were heretikes and therefore their chaire was not the rocke but waueryng and vncertaine sande the buildyng whereon did runne to the ruine of heresie Nowe you maie see good readers the cause why M. Dorman hath thus alleged vnto you sainct Hieromes sentence headlesse leauyng out the mention of Christ whom onely S. Hierome acknowledgeth for the head that the wordes of the rocke nexte folowyng might seme to be spoken of Peters rotten chaire or of ruinous Rome and not of our Sauiour Iesus Christe who liueth and reigneth for euer With like fraude did M. Dormā leaue also that whiche nexte foloweth in S. Hierome of the house without the whiche he that eateth the Pascall lambe is a prophane or vnholie man and the arke of Noe without the whiche all that bee perishe by the floudde For though that place might seeme to make for M. Dormans purpose concernyng the supremacie of the bishop of Rome as Erasmus hath noted yet he knowyng or some manne warnyng hym that it is in deede nothyng to his purpose for that the house without the whiche the Pascall lambe maie not bee eaten the Arke without the whiche no man can bée saued frō the floude by all olde doctours is interpreted to bee the one vniuersall churche of Christ and by none to be the churche of Rome and therefore like a wise man orels a false Fore hath he let that folowyng alone also as he cutte of Christe the head goyng and ioigned nexte before and so he hath tolde you a tale bothe without head and taile thereby to proue the Pope who is Antichriste to be the head of Christes churche Dorman Fol. 14. Saie vnto them as saincte Hierome saied vnto the Ibidem heretikes Vitalis and Miletus because thei are aduersaries to this seate that you knowe them not that thei scatter are schismatikes altogether out of the churche that gather not with Peters successour Nowell By your leaue sir you saie vntruelie that saincte Hierome saieth he knoweth not Vitalis and Meletius whom you call Miletus because thei were aduersaries to the seate of Rome but because thei were aduersaries to the true doctrine of the moste blessed Trinitie which Damasus did defende Saincte Hieromes woordes are these Non noui Vitalem Meletium respuo ignoro Paulinum Quicunque tecum non colligit spargit hoc est qui Christi non est est Antichristi That is to saie I knowe not Vitalis I refuse Meletius Paulinus I knowe not Whosoeuer dooeth not gather with thee he scattereth that is he that is not of Christe is of Antichriste Thus farre sainct Hierome I praie you maister Dorman what is in these woordes but thei maie as well bee spoken to saincte Augustine bishoppe of Hippo in Afrike or to saincte Ambrose Bishoppe of Milane or to any other godlie Bishoppe holdyng the truthe of the blessed Trinitie againste Vitalis Meletius and Paulinuus teachyng erronious doctrine and vsyng vnfitte termes thereof Here is neither mention made of this seate or that or the aduersaries thereto as causes why sainct Hierome should not knowe these menne but because thei taught false doctrine and Damasus taught true and therefore gathered not with hym but scattered and were not of Christe but of Antichriste therefore did saincte Hierome not knowe thē he beeyng a Romaine would not acknowledge their errours cloked vnder a straunge and newe inuented Greeke ternie But beeyng a Romaine prieste he well knewe Damasus the Romaine Bishoppe and so consequentlie his owne bishoppe as euery man is bounde to knowe his owne godlie Bishop he knewe his true doctrine and plaine Latine termes whereby he vttered the plaine truthe plainelie and therefore so knowyng hym and his doctrine he ioigned with hym in communion not for the seates sake or for that he was Peters successour therein but for the truthes sake whiche he beeyng Peters successour in truthe of doctrine more then in seate or Chaire did professe Againe the cause why saincte Hierome did not knowe but reiected Vitalis Meletius and Paulinus was not for that thei did not submitte them selues to Damasus as to the supreme head of the Churche or for that cause tooke them to bee enemies as maister Dorman would haue it seeme for there was no suche matter then in question but because thei did not agree with Damasus in the truthe but taughte falselie of the greateste poinctes of our religion and would haue wrapped the same in obscure and strange termes therby to deceiue the more therefore did sainct Hierome not knowe thē This is the true sense of this place good readers as al learned that wil reade it shall easily perceiue Wherfore maister Dorman thus corruptyng and falsifiyng Saincte Hierome by takyng awaie from hym and addyng to hym what he liste and drawyng the woordes of sainct Hierome concernyng the doctrine of
ecclesiastical thinges and causes ouer the same vvhiche hovv so euer they please themselues vvith fine fetches and coloured deuises is vvith the other title in effect al one if this reason of theirs vvere good Christ is head of the churche therefore there is no other head therof vnder him And hovve vvas king Henry then If they saye that their meaning is that no man can because Christ is head of the vniuersall churche be vnder him head of the vvhole but may vvell be of some particuler churche as king Henry vvas and the Quenes maiestie novve is Then demaunde of them vvhat reason they haue to leade them to say that a particuler membre of the churche as the churche of Englande can bee no more maie haue an other head beside Christe and the whole bodie maie not and whye one member maie haue twoo heades more then one bodie Nowell Now after his long digressions and declamations against the Suenkfeldians against the Arrians and Anabaptistes and against the confereÌ„ce of scriptures the manne remembryng hymself retourneth sodainlie to his matter by a question And in deede he taketh on with his Herotemata and other rollyng Rhetoricall figures exceadynglie now that he draweth towarde a conclusion Flie those sticke to those saieth M. Dorman Shrinke not from those Tell those you are at a poincte with them Saie to them as saincte Hierome saied Tell them bouldlie with sainct Augustine Aske of them with what face then demaunde of them againe with what reason with many other Rhetoricall floures wherewith he hath geuen a faire floorishe to his finall conclusion Magno conatu magnas nugas agens as thei saie makyng greate adooe aboute greate trifles as I doubte not but all wise menne will iudge Aske of them saieth maister Dorman with what face thei could call Kyng Henrie the eight so many yeres supreame heade of the Churche of Englande c. As though the man had so proued the contrarie that none durste shewe his face to gainesaie hym whereas all he hath saied is not woorthe one rushe Aske of them ê™ he with what face Naie aske of your forsworne fathers the old Papistes for some of them are yet liuyng who gaue hym that title firste with what face thei did geue it hym did sweare it to hym and so long tyme coÌ„tinued so callyng hym if thei did not so thinke as thei saied and had sworne but dissembled deepelie aske of them with what face thei plaied so false dissemblyng hypocrites to saie but soberlie with so noble a prince their soueraigne Lorde Aske of them what maner of subiectes thei were all that while feignyng in face in countenaunce in woorde and writyng also yea and takyng a solemne othe to be with their prince therein and beyng in harte and déede on the Pope his sworne enemie his side Whiche passeth hauyng of twoo faces vnder one hoode But if thei thought in deede as thei pretended in woordes then aske of theÌ„ with what face thei did chaunge their copie forsweare the same and themselues with all so easilie afterwarde yea and compelled al other to be forsworne with them for companie If it will please you to resorte to the recordes of the .xxij. and .xxiiij. yeres of king Henry the eight there shall you finde who thei were that first offered this title to the saied kyng there shall you finde that all Abbottes and other religious all the Bishops Deanes Archedeacons and Cleargie of bothe the houses of the Conuocation then liuyng gaue hym that title EmoÌ„gest whom if you finde one protestante I can for hym finde one score of papistes to speake with the least and peraduenture one hundreth too And those protestantes who gaue hym that title dealed simplie and plainly with their Prince as becomed true subiectes as the sequele declared But there shall you finde an huge number of Papistes who by their writyng not onelie saiyng by their othe not woorde onely reiected all that false vsurped supremacie of the Pope whiche you and thei as many of them as yet bee liuyng without all face or with a shamelesse face dooe now maintaine there shall you finde who gaue to Kyng Henrie the supremacie ouer the cleargie as well as the laitie within his owne dominions there shall you finde who thei were that so falsely dissembled and that so many yeres together with their soueraigne lorde There shall you finde who thei were that chaunged their copie and turned with the wind as the wethercocke there shall you finde who thei were that so falsely sware resware triesware forsware themselues and not content therewith did so cruelly by all moste terrible tormentes and dreadfull deathes compell others to periurie with theÌ„ Sâ—ing therefore thus standeth the case with what face soeuer M. Dorman moueth suche demaundes and vexeth vs with suche leude questions to bee enquired otherwhere surelie he dooeth it without all forehead or shamefastnesse Now to the matter by what right wée geue the Quéenes maiestie the title of the supreme gouernour in Ecclesiasticall matters as well as temporall and with what face we so call her is to be answered in the second parte of M. Dormans diuision where he affirmeth that priestes onely and not princes ought to haue the gouernemeÌ„t of the churche wherin I doubt nothyng to aduouche and that shortly the princes due authoritie in the churche of God within their own dominions with better face authoritie reason and conscience then you haue dooen or shalbée able to dooe in the mainteinaunce of the Popes foraine false vsurped supremacie Where M. Dorman requireth a reason why a particuler church maie haue one head gouernor vnder Christ in earth and the whole church maie not why one member maie and the whole bodie maie not haue any head I truste the reason is not to seeke in the good readers memorie seyng it hath been so ofte declared before Yet will I answere M. DormaÌ„ his question by an other questioÌ„ Why maie one kingdom haue one head in earth vnder God as daily experieÌ„ce teacheth the whole worlde can not haue one onely head in earth vnder God that Monarchie being reserued to himself alone and why in this case the member maie haue an earthly heade besides God and the whole bodie maie not If M. Dorman saie the questions bee not like I aske with what face he can so saie seing that in the beginnyng of this his treatie he brought the example of ciuill gouernemente in the whiche euery kyngdome hath his Kyng euery countrey citie and companie haue their seuerall gouernours c. to prooue that the churche ought likewise to haue one head But I wotte what maister Dorman and other Papistes would saie to my question if the tymes serued them Thei would quickelie aunswere that the whole worlde hath and ought to haue one onely head in earth vnder God and therefore the Churche in like wise oughte to haue one onely head in earth vnder Christe And if thei were demaunded who is or should be that