might have pretended to but for some time even of the Open Air and even this kind of Life was so precariously enjoy'd by us and we were so far from being assured of any Continuance of it that were it not for our Confidence in God's Mercy we could have expected nothing else but immediate Destruction Now when these two things are put into the Ballance I mean the two different Trials of Dr. Tenison's Loyalty and Mine I cannot but think that the Advantage will be on my side and this even tho' the Doctor himself which perhaps is a bold word should hold the Scales Wherefore if any value accrue to Loyalty from such kind of Trials That certainly which has undergon the longest and severest ought to be the most prized Neither is there any reason why my Loyaly should lose that value in the Calm which according to this Rule it must have acquir'd in the Storm On the contrary it is then chiefly that the Labours of a Souldier are considered when the War is at an end and even by Rewards his Merit is not lessen'd tho' his Pretension be but declared For which reasons it is probable that this Comparison of the Doctorâ— will appear to the World to have many more Graiâ—â— of Self-Love than of Consideration And for m◠〈◊〉 part I cannot but look on it as an ill sign 〈…〉 Loyalty should sit so heavy on any Man's shoulders at this time of day and amidst so much ease and security as to be thought a thing of any weight Besides had the Doctor been that Loyal Man he pretended tho' he had thought me a little too hasty in this occasion ought he to have snapt me up so discourteously and with so much bitterness of Spirit for an expression which tho' taken by him for ill-grounded could not but be look'd on as Loyal Methinks I say the Loyalty of my Admonition might have made some Attonement for the supposed Error of it and the Doctor who is so good at giving Grains of Allowance might one would think Page 7. have extended his Charity to Me also especially when the Zeal for Loyalty needed not to have been extraordinary in him for the overlooking of so small a Fault Similis simili gaudet Had the Doctor been as much a Loyalist in his Heart as seemingly at least he was the contrary in his words he would have cherished Loyalty where-ever he had found it even even tho' mingled with some Indiscretion He may remember how cordially the Old and Loyal Church-of England-men and the Roman Catholics lov'd one another during the Civil Wars when the difference of Persuasion was not more powerful to divide their Understandings than a constant Fidelity to their Prince to unite their Affections But these days are somewhat changed The first Reformers to give them their due thought nothing enough for the * Declaring him Head of their Church and Supreme Governor in all Ecclesiastical and Spiritual Things or Causes They cared not what Church-Power he took so that he would exercise it in giving them Church-Livings King but it is to be feared there are some amongst their Successors who thinâ— â—â—ery thing too much Wherefore the late Representer of Old and New Popery may if he pleases for his diversion transfer his parallel Columns to his own Church I question not but he will be able to fill them And for some Materials I would recommend him to a late * Work of one of his own A Discourse for Abrogating the Tast c. Prelates Others he may have in the Uarious Translations of the Scripture Common-Prayer-Books Rubricks Forms of Ordination and the like But after all I will not much contend with Dr. Tenison in the forementioned Point I wish that he thought his Loyalty ten times more valuable than he does The greater Treasure he takes it for the more careful in all probability he will be to preserve it And had the Doctor 's esteem for Loyalty been so extraordinary before our Acquaintance his Discourse had not drawn such a fruitless Admonition from me nor my Admonition so much unjust Anger from him There are several other Remarks which would offer themselves to me on this Subject But the Filth which is so copiously rak'd together in this Paragraph is no such inviting sight as that I should continue to pore on it However there is one Observation which prevails with me for a little longer stay I cannot but call to mind what Sacred things the King's Witnesses were during the late pretended Popish-Plot notwithstanding that those who presented themselves for that Employment were known to be the most profligate Wretches alive whereas as soon as that Phantôm vanished and a true Plot bred under the Shadow of this false One was happily detected then nothing was so scandalous with some Men as one of these Witnesses such I mean as were then for the King Such a strange Perverseness is there in some Natures that what is for their turn tho' ever so Diabolical shall be Saintly with them but what is otherwise tho' Truth Justice or Piety shall be look'd on as the most detestable thing in the World. Whil'st the Witnesses were False it was a sin to asperse them but as soon as they came to be True their former Treasons were held less Crimes than their present Discovery of them And it was about this time viz. whil'st the Real Plot was under Prosecution that the Doctor 's Nick name of Evidence began to come in use Indeed the former Witnesses were every way so abominable that the very name of a Witness seem'd Ignominious and therefore it was the easier for the Enemies of the Crown to represent that as Odious in it self which was only so when accompanied with Falshood And hence instead of vilifying Perjur'd Witnesses in particular they slily brought a discredit on all Witnesses in general at least on Those who as I have said were for the King and so falsly pretending to remedy one Evil they endeavoured to introduce a Greater it being certainly a less Mischief to the Common-wealth that some False Witnesses should be believed than that None should be look'd on as True. Wherefore I hope the Doctor means somewhat worse by the Nick-name he bestows on me than barely the being a Witness for the King since blessed be God I am not yet so unmortified but that I had rather be reputed a False Evidence tho' the worst of Disgraces than that the being a True Evidence on the King's behalf should be esteemed a Disgrace It being better that His Majesty should want the Testimony of one single Person tho' ever so unjustly than that he should be depriv'd of That of all his Subjects This Pamphlet grows more bulky than I intended and therefore having said as much as I thought fit on the things contain'd in Dr. Tenison's Narrative I purpose to be much shorter concerning that which remains The Doctor in his 57th Page quotes a * Viz. His Diff. betwixt Prot.
whether it be Christian or not Baptized And we are such stupid Lovers of ease that we are angry at such as endeavor to awaken us out of our Sleep at least till we come to be thoroughly awake and so understand that had it not been for this Charitable Troublesomeness we should have been burnt in our Beds I say this Principle of abiding in that Communion where we once are is more immediately attack'd by Converts than by others and therefore of consequence the Converts are more displeasing to those who have made a shift to lay their Consciences a-sleep upon it And yet how much soever this Principle is belov'd at present it is that which the Protestants if they have any kindness for their Religion have no reason to be fond of since if this Rule had been always observed their Reformation had not been and consequently the World had still continued without any Protestants at all There is yet one remark which offers it self to me concerning this Aspersion which the Doctor is pleased to cast on all Converts viz. That it reflects on me in very good Company But I will not insist on this least the Doctor who confesses he is apt to be * Ep. to his Parishioners Suspicious should have a fresh occasion of suspecting as he did at the Conference that I intend to inform against him However for the future as I told him then I would have him take a little more time to consider before he speaks When the Doctor told me that I had been turn'd in Spain where the People had no Bibles what I replyed was very true viz. that going over in the Company of a public Minister we had the liberty of using what Books we pleased and consequently we carried with us not only Bibles but a great number of other English Books and amongst them many of our best Protestant Controvertists And I farther inform the Doctor that during my forementioned doubts I frequently perused the Writings of those Men and particularly of Chillingworth whom I looked on as the subtilest of them all and the Fountain-head from whence Dr. St. and most others of our Modern Controversie-writers had derived their Notions And before my Conversion to the best of my remembrance I never Read one line in any Roman Catholic Controvertist having always an in-bred aversion to and a fear of being deceived by them unless the Doctor will take the Antient Fathers to be such as indeed he very well may But after all why should the Doctor say that I have forsaken his Church Does a Man leave the House who goes out of one Room into another The Learned Dr. Jackson as he is * Pag. 58. Quoted by the Learned Dr. Tenison says that the Church of England was in the Romish Church before Luthers time and is yet in it Now how have I left the Church of England when both the Church of England and my self are in the same Church London is no farther from Paris than Paris is from London If the Church of England could come so far from the Church of Rome as she hath done by her Reformation without Separating from her as the Doctor seems to * Ibid. affirm may not a Church of England-man go all that way back again without separating from the Church of England If the Denying of Transubstantiation break no Union with those who Hold it how comes the Holding it to dis-unite us from those who Deny it Wherefore the Doctor might have spared his Third Exception against me at this time and first considered whether the matter on which it was grounded were true or not But the Churches of Rome and England must be two distinct Churches when it is for the Doctors turn And One and the same when a contrary purpose requires it That is when my Apostacy is to be proved they are two and when the Doctor 's Succession is to be made out they are but One. It was not without cause that the Antients said Oportet mendacem esse Memorem since it is so very hard for much to be spoken in the Defence of Falshood without the stumbling upon some Contradiction or other It is not impossible but Dr. T. may Answer what is added by his abovesaid Learned Brother viz. that the English Church is in the Church of Rome neither as a Visible Church altogether distinct from it nor any Native Member of it But this to say nothing of the fancifulness of the Notion will not serve for the Doctors excuse For he charges me roundly to have forsaken the Church of England whereas according to this Learned Man he ought to have said that I had not altogether left it but had still at least one foot in it's Communion or some such like Church of England-Oracle which like their Real Presence might have been interpreted either way This is not trifling tho' it may seem so at first sight but a clear Manifestation of what most naturally proceeds from the admirable Harmony of Protestant Doctrins I have now done with the Doctors Preliminary Exceptions But before I pass to any other part of his Account I will do him so much right as to acknowledge that I am verily persuaded that he made these Exceptions not out of much malice towards me or for any great weight he imagined to be in them but meerly to spend the time and amuse the Auditors or it may be to discompose his Antagonists and render them less present to themselves Such Salutations ordinarily speaking being but an ill tuning of the mind for calm and serious Discourses For as I have already hinted if Dr. Tenison had thought it both unreasonable and inconvenient that I should be present at the Conference why had he not accepted of that person whom Mr. P. proposed in my stead or otherwise insisted on it that I should have withdrawn which I assure him had been no less a favor to me than he could think it a convenience to himself Dr. T. says in the beginning of his 6th page Pag. 6. that Mr. P. after his sitting down spake first about Pen and Ink and an Amanuensis but Dr. T. having brought no person with him and the Crowd pressing Mr. P. began a Verbal Conference by saying the Protestants had no Bible desiring Dr. T. to prove they had one and asking him how and whence they had one and what was their Rule of Faith. This looks as if there had been but a slight mention made of having the Arguments taken in Writing and that it was after our sitting down and only by Mr. P. and that Mr. P. without insisting much for it had begun a Verbal Conference Whereas both Mr. P. and my self were very earnest for it and proposed it before our sitting down Nay it was on this proposal of ours that the Doctor invited us to sit down after having first told us that he had no Pen and Ink nor Writer c. According to what I have said above p. 14. Possibly
and Knew the voice of their Church and therefore according to the Doctors own assertion needed it not But perhaps the Doctor will say that for the Verbal Translation of the Scripture the Protestants are not necessitated to have recourse to particular Men the Bible being Translated to their hands and warranted by public Authority tho' here too they will be at a loss unless it appear to them that they may confide in this Authority but for the Sense in all dubious places they ought to Address themselves to their Ministers They may do it if they please And if not I suppose they may let it alone and this last with most safety For according to our late Divines all things necessary to Salvation are plain in Scripture and therefore to look after the meaning of dubious places is to do more than of bounden Duty is required and has the appearance of a Work of Supererogation which is such an abominable thing with the Church of England that they have a whole * See 14th Article Article against it and declare that it cannot be taught without arrogancy and impiety much less as I suppose PRACTISED Wherefore as yet there appears no cause why the Apprentice should be chidden for not having waited on Dr. T. in this occasion And indeed if that be the case viz. That the Members of the Church of England are to go to their Ministers for the Construction of these dubious places I do not perceive that they have any great advantage over those of the Church of Rome tho' what the Doctor says were true viz. That Roman Catholics were to apply themselves to particular Priests for the Translation of the Scriptures since the Protestants themselves must make the same application for the Sense and Meaning of these Scriptures And this Sense is that which is of the greatest importance or rather That which is of any Importance at all But in Truth they are not particular Priests which Catholics depend on for either the Translation or Sense of the Scripture in any necessary Point of Faith but it is on their Church whose Voice is as Intelligible at least and with the Doctors leave much farther Heard than that of the Church of England For is it not full as evident in England and much more evident in other Parts of the World that the Church of Rome Teaches a Purgatory than it is that the Church of England Teaches the contrary And so of other Doctrins This is an Age wherein Men whilest they Scepticize on evident Truths are Positive in Absurdities and therefore there want not Those who ask how the Members of the Church of Rome can know what their Church holds But when they shall have considered how they themselves come to know what That Church holds whilest they Condemn it's Doctrins as also how a Man may come to understand what is held by the Church of England they will not I suppose expect any farther Answer This were it not so Common and even with Men of no Common Wit would have been too frivolous to have been taken notice of One endeavor which I used for the speaking somewhat of a Guide in Controversie was on the following occasion Dr. T. having called me to him and desiring as he said that * Pag. 21. Mr. P. would stick to something took upon him to explain a Text of Scripture which had been long before Cited by Mr. P. for the Authority of the Church viz. That of St. Matthew c. 18. v. 17. If he will not hear the Church let him be to thee as an Heathen and a Publican The Doctor said that considering the Antecedent Verses this ought to be understood of ordinary Trespasses such as the not paying of a just debt c. And not of Articles of Faith making use of a tedious Instance to that purpose the summ whereof was * Ibid. that in case a Man should refuse to pay his debts after one or two demands he is put into the Ecclesiastical Courts supposing it proper for their cognisance And if he will not stand to their Sentence then he is Excommunicated and Treated as such a One. Whereupon I told the Doctor that for my own part I understood that Text of Scripture quite otherwise than he did being persuaded that we were obliged by it to Hear the Church in all those things wherein the same Church doth declare that she hath Power to Judge And most especially in matters of Faith Which in their own Nature seem more proper for the Cognisance of Ecclesiastical Courts than a Question of Debt That it was not unusual for our Blessed Saviour on a particular occasion to deliver a general Precept as for instance when the Jews ask'd him whether or no it were lawful to pay Tribute to Caesar he * Mat. c. 22. v. 19 c. called for the Tribute-mony and ask'd whose Image it bore and being Answered that it was Caesars he gave this Rule Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesars Which Rule I suppose is general and hath regard not only to Tribute but also to whatever else is due from Subjects to Sovereign Princes as Respect Obedience and the like tho' the occasion on which the Rule was made and that which immediately preceded it seem to be Particular and to look no farther than his Pecuniary Rights That in like manner tho' this Text viz. If he will not hear the Church c. might be spoken in a Particular occasion it could not be thence inferr'd that it was not of a more large Extension especially if we should compare it with other Texts such as are * Joh. c. 20. v. 21. As my Father sent me so I send you * Matth. c. 28. v. 19 20. Go and Teach all Nations and lo I am with you always even unto the end of the World. a Luke c. 10. v. 16. He that Heareth You Heareth ME c. b Eph. c. 4. v. 11 c. And he gave some Apostles and some Prophets and some Evangelists and some Pastors and Teachers for the perfecting of the Saints for the Work of the Ministry c. That we henceforth be no more Children c If Pastors are left to keep us from being tossed to and fro it follows that we must hearken to them as also that they must be kept from being tossed to and fro themselves Otherwise they will not be able to effect that for which they were left tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of Doctrin c. d Hebr. c. 13. v. 17. Obey those that are set over you for they watch as being to render account for your Souls All which places at least according to my own Judgment are clear for that Perpetuity and that Authority of the Church which are believed by Roman Catholics But above all this Truth seems to be most apparent to me when I consider what immediately follows in this place of Scripture viz. When