do the same Concerning the preheminence in ciuill causes there is no great question he wil say between vs Page 71. only in ecclesiastical matters we assume vnto our selues saith he that authoritie which by right is the magistrats This slander is general we desire the particular proofe of it wee cannot answere generalles hee repheth that the magistrate by lawe is to haue whatsoeuer priuiledg the pope at any time had with in this land by vsurpation Page 70. lin 3. what will hee conclude hereof Not I hope that the magistrate is to haue the power of remitting sinnes and dispensing with the law of God which the Pope by vsurpation had in times past within this kingdome Her Maiestie wee know detesteth al such prerogatiues from her hart But what is it that he requireth to be graunted vnto the ciuil authoritie which wee yelde not most willingly The power to establish godly ecclesiastical lawes and constitutions amongest the subiects wee are so far from denying this that wee holde it intollerable that our Bishops and the conuocation house should intrude their subscriptions aduertisements and cannons vpon the subjectes whereas no such things can be warraÌ„ted by statute And whereas hee sayth that wee claime vnto our Presbiteries the ordinary authoritie to make al lawes constitutions and ceremonies of the Church it is most false Al that wee affirme in this point is noe more then her majestie voluntarily yealdeth in all such cases when the question is whether such or such a case be statute law or not whether doth M. Bancroft think her majestie or her learned councel in the lawe as her judges Solliciters Atturneis c. to haue greatest skill in the deciding of this matter he knoweeth well enough that her Majesty in all such points will be directed by that which her aforesaid lawiers do prooue to be law and equitie and yet thinketh her royall prorogatiue no whit diminshed thereby In the like case then we say that the true gouernors of the church are meetest to direct her majesty what lawes and ceremonies are most lawfull expedient necessary for the right gouernment of the church And we say that as her majestie in worldly matters is to giue eare vnto the Lawiers which haue skill in that facultie so in the matters of God is she to establish nothing in the church but that which the true ministers and true gouernors if they may bee had shall shew vnto her to be according vnto the worde of GOD. And yet all this while wee make not the gouernours of the Church to haue power to enact laws we leaue that authoritie vnto her Majesty and the Parliament vnto whose hands the Lord hath committed it This indeed we affirme Moreouer that her majesty and the Parliament are bound to establish and erect amongst their subiects al such lawes and ceremonies as the true Ministers of the word shall prooue by the Scriptures of God to bee meet and necessary for the gouernment of the temple and house of the Lord within this kingdome And that they are bound to see that no forme of religion or Church-gouernment be in force amongst the subjectes but that alone which by the word of God may bee prooued lawfull and so that they are bound to see that the Church of God bee clensed and purified of all Idolatrous popish superstious and superfluous gouernment and ceremonies And furthermore we say that they are to prouide by law that all persons both Ministers and others doe submit themselues without contradiction vnto all such things as shall bee godly established in the Church Whether this bee M. Bancroft to weaken or call into question her Maiesties prerogatiue in Ecclesiastical causes let the reader determin We would also desire him to iudge whether her Majestie be well vsed at your hands which call her a petty Pope and say that shee vsurpeth the same authority in causes page 68. lin 2â— Ecclesiasticall with in her dominions which the pope did in times past Had we coÌ„ceiued much lesse published any such things wee had worthily smarted for it Your answere heere will be that you did bring in this reason to shew the weakenes of Martins arguments against the Bishops Let Martin in other points answere for himselfe The case of her Majestie and our Bishops are not alike He prooueth our Bishops to be petty Popes and vsurpers you denie it not And therefore you onely addresse your selfe to shew what a rebellious and absurd conclusion hee hath made by the like kinde of reasoning as you suppose And where his minor truly assumeth our bishoppes to be vsurpers and petty Popes you falsely and standerously charge her Maiestie to bee an vsurper and a petty Pope Wee are not so hastie to shead bloud as you are otherwise this your vndutifulnes is so heinous that I could easily shewe that there were no other waye of desence for you but in the acknowledgement of your rash boldnes to giue your doings no worse tearmes to flie vnto her Maiesties clemency TOVCHING SCOTLAND VVE answere that we desire not the Eldershipp to be planted in the Church of England From the. 72. to the 78. page because Scotland or Geneua enjoyeth the same but in asmuch as Christ Iesus the head king of his church hath commaunded it to bee therein And therefore we admit the gouernment of no church vnder heauen to be the pâ—â—â—â—â—e of that which we desire but only that regiment which is set downe in the word of God the perfection whereof if any Church hath attained vnto wee rejoice with them and desire to be pertakers of so great a blessing in the Lods good time But as for any thing that is amisse if there be ought either in Geneua or Scotlande wee labour no more to haue that established in England then we doe to haue the great abuses that raigned in the Church of Corinth or Galatia to be imitated The slaunder which you haue raised Page 75. both against the Kings Maiesty there in giuing out that he is a deadly enemy vnto the present gouernement established in his kingdome and watcheth but his time to ouer throw it and also against the godly ministers of that realm in making them traitors vnto their soueraign Heaue to be answered by theÌ„selues and I dout not but you wil in time be forced to answere the iniury that you haue offered vnto that godly and noble King oâ— and also vnto the whole Church with in his dominion But let it bee graunted that the true Church gouernours in Scotland behaued themselues rebelliously towards then Prince which yet is most false what is that to the Church gouernment which they enioly Doe you thinke it a good season to say that the Archbishop is a Traitour therefore the Archbishopricke is gilty of Treason You can not deny but Thomas Beckeâ— was a traitor so were diuers others that haue beene Archbishops of Canterbury but I trust you will not therefore attaint the Archbishopricke of treason
Browne a knowne Scismatike is a man very fit to be one of your witnesses against the Eldership Page 75. lin 29 His entertainment in Scotland was such as a proud vngodly man deserued to haue God giue him and you repentance if it be his will otherwise you shall make and hard reckoning both of you before the iudgement feate of Iesus Christ for the slaunders which you haue raised vp against the gouernement of his kingdome heere vpon earth Your calender deceiued you for it was not the Parliament of the yeare 88. where of hee wrote Page 76. lin 4. but of another held Anno 86. or before If any thing be written amisse in any of the books that you mencion Page 78. wee haue nothing to doe therewith Bring our owne assentions and you shal be answered We holde it altogether vnlawfull for Ministers and Church officers to deale in any ciuil cause much more to depose Princes and therfore our attempts that way are not to be feared Looke you Page 79. your masters vnto those thinges who arrogat vnto your selues that preheminence which is in deede dangerous vnto the throne of the magistrate and thinke Parliaments and lawes cannot bee halfe orderly kept and enacted without Lords spirituall Your feare Page 80. lect 3 that whatsoeuer hath bene done or written in forraine Countries is laboured to haue execution with vs at home is but the ouerflowing of your gall The disease is daungerous and you may one day aunswere for your distempâ—rature in his presence before whome the imaginers of euill against their brethren shall haue their reward We holde indeede Rom. 13.2 that the Magistracie is gods ordinance bee he a good or a bad Page 81. an heathen or a Christian that is called thereunto so that the right of a Christian and an heathen Magistrate within his dominions is the same You that hold the contrary professe your selfe not to bee a subiect for conscience sake as the Apostle commaundeth but for some other respect So you would bee very dutifull belike if you were vnder an heathen Prince Ministers wee say are not to deale in ciuill causes Page 82. lin 27 and therefore in that point wee ascribe vnto the Magistrate both PotestateÌ„ juris facti that is power to make lawes to execute them If there arise anie difficultie as often as it commeth to passe of that which is agreable vnto the law of God in matters that are controverted then indeed it is the Ministers dutie to enforme the Magistrate of the mind of the Lord wherein hee doth nothing els but respondere de jure shewe what the will of God is that the magistrat may statuere de facto pronounce sentence accordingly For Ecclesiasticall matters it is the word of God onely that therein hath potestateÌ„ juris the power to determin what is acceptable in the sight of God the Minister ought to haue the knowledge thereof that he may declare the same both vnto Magistrate and people The Church officers also are appointed of God to execute all ecclesiastical maters And if you should attribute this power vnto the magistrate the imagistrate might iustly account of you as you are For will you haue the Magistrate to preach the word administer the Sacramentes take the charge of watching ouer the maners of the people and distributing to the pore within his parish or will you haue him to visite the sicke comfort the weake ordaine ministers discusse controuersies in religion exercise the church censures by excommunications c. And yet these are the only maters which wee account ecclesiasticall wherein alone we hold it lawfull for church officers to deale other punishments of malefactors as imprisoning fining or any mulct that toucheth the life body or goodes of men are only to be reterced to the Magistrates who beare the sword for that purpose Our Bishops vsurping this sword doe shewe that they and their fathers house and not wee doe labour to bring and maintaine confusion in church common wealth You exhortation both vnto people and magistrates Page 85. that the one shoulde avoide and the other punish heretical spirits we imbrace withal our harts Being ready to shewe as our writings haue done at large that your errors corruptions idlenes pride ambition slaunders and vntruthes vttered against the truth hath not only as dayly experience teacheth vs begotten and nourished the lamentable ignorance which euery where raigneth in this land but alsoe called for the wrath of God to fal vppon vs because such vnruly and wicked spirits as you are tollerated in the holy ministerye amongest vs. Page â—6 You are now come to the gathering vppe of your standers and vntruche into an heape in the conclusion of your sermon lest the readers and auditors shoulde forget that you are an impudent slaunderer And therefore that you may incense the magistrates against vs in one place especially you rake theÌ„ vp after this manner Hir Majestie is depraued hir authority is impugned and greate dangers are threatned Page 57 to 19â— M Doct. thinkâ— belike that wee are maintainers of the hierarchy Ciuil gouerment is called into question princes pretogatiues are curiously scanned the interest of the people in kingdomes is greatly aduaunced al gouernment generally is pinched at comemened The Church is condemned the auncient fathers are despised your preachers are defaced and yet these men are tollerated Whereunto I answere with the wise man that the lying tonge slayeth the soule Pron 12.6 and that the very wordes of the wicked lye in wayte for blood but the mouth of the righteous wil deliuer them And so wee doubt not whensoeuer wee are araigned for any of these heauy accusations but that wee shal bee deliuered from this bloody tonge The reader knoeth that as a noble Emperour spake in the like case if it be sufficient to accuse no man can be innocent Nowe if he hath these aduantages against any of vs let him set down his particulars and name the man or his writings and he shal be answered Otherwise we make no other account of such Epistrophaes homoioteleutaes page 88. line 4. then of the barking and dogge Rethorick of some profane Lucian or god lesse Porphirie It is no news for vs to haue our legs thighs desired to be broken Ioke 19.30 The reader is to remember that this was the Iewes requests vnto Pilate concerning our Sauiour Christ and therefore wee are not to thinke it strange that M. Bancroft is guided by their spirit whose place he supplieth But this wee are to knowe that neither he not his masters shal do any thing against vs but that which the Lord our God hath long since determined and therewith by his grace Act. 4 1â— wee hope to be right wel contented In stead of arming his hearers with reasons out of the word against vs whome he accounteth sect masters and false Prophets hee commeth
to atchieue his purpose And that is neither to father vpon vs such thinges as we neuer maintained nor yet to bring the testimonies of men to oppugn our conclusions whose grounds he is not able to shake but to set downe that which we holde indeed and with reasons rather to answere our premisses then with authorities to strike at our conclusions The contrary dealing may colour and white line the breaches of his cause for a time but in the end it will prooue to be the ruine thereof Vnconscionable and sophistical dealing can neuer be able to stand any long time He and his Masters would gladly beare the Magistrat in hand that we deny the congregations in England where the word is truly preached and the sacraments rightly administred to be the visible churches of God wheras the truth is that the Bishops and not we doe maintaine this error Let the reader judge whether I truly accuse them by this which followeth The visible church of God wheresoeuer it bee hath the power of binding â—nd loosing annexed vnto it as our sauiour Christ teacheth vs. Mathew 18. which authority is so essentially tied vnto the visible church that wheresoeuer this power is to bee found there the church of Christ is also visible Our Bb. are scismatickes and deny the assemblie of England to be visible church of God booke of Martins page 5. 6. and wheresoeuer there is a visible church there this authority cannot bee denied to be The which point that reuerend father M. Iohn Fox teacheth more at large Now the reader cannot be ignorant that our Bishops wil neuer grant that the visible congregations in England ought to haue this power of binding and loosing for then should they manifest themselues to bee professed tyrants The crime therefore of Scisme and Donatisme which M. Bancroft and the Prelates would fasten vpon vs doth justly clâ—aue vnto them selues And if any of our poore brethren be caried away to thinke otherwise of the congregations of England which inioy the woorde truly preached and the right vse of the Sacramentâ— VVe cease not to pray that the Lord would reforme their iudgements But woe bee vnto our Bishops which are the cause of this their stumbling and maintainers of their error For the pore brethren doe holde nothing in this point but that which the learned fathers as M. Bancroft calleth them haue decreed And you shall see in this Treatise that he seeth no reason why Popery being now abollished Sermon pag. 3 wee should not reply vppon the determinations of these fathers as other men in time past of a great iudgement as we are haue done Let our Bishops then and their vpholders whisper into the eare of the Magistrate what they will it shall bee prooued in the end that they are the scismatickes and not we It shall appear that they are growing to make a body of their owne wherewith the church of God in a while if they hold on their course can haue no mote to do then in times past in had with the scismaticall Donatists The deuill indeede hath within this twelmoneth shewed himselfe to bee grieuously wounded in their persons because he hath raged so mightily as these 32. yeares his furie was neuer seene so great against the truth as at this present That vile and scurrilous Palmphlet An almond a Patrot latey suffered to come abroad by their priuity if not allowance and in their defence doth euidently shew that sathan feeleth the power and sway which he was wont to bear by vertue of the hierarchie to be greatly weakned And because he feareth that his time vnder their gouernment cannot be long therefore he meaneth now to infect the aire at once with all his contagions The strength which they get by such leud and filthie stuffe the discredit which thereby they worke either vnto the cause or the men and women whome they suffer to bee so vnworthilie traduced is not other then it were to bee wished that seeing they will needs be filthy they would publish such another booke euery day That then it might appeare indeede whose sonnes they are And this is all the confutation that I thinke so godles leud a scrole to deserue For thy selfe good reader thou seest the time of triall to be now at hand euen at the doore If thou meanest to be partaker of Christes kingdome after this life take heede that neither the feare of men nor the loue of the world draw thee to shrinke from any part of that truth which the Lorde hath reueiled in his word The Lord saith that whosoeuer shall be ashamed of him or his worde that is any part of his truth before men Luk. 9.26 of him shall the sonne of man be ashamed when he commeth in his glory VVell I thinke it now no time to dally with the Lord and his word but let vs craue strength at his hand that we stand vnrebukeable vnto the day of his appearance A BRIEFE DISCOVERY OF THE VNTRVTHES AND SLANDERS AGAINST Reformation and the fauourers thereof contained in D. Bancrofts Sermon D. BANCROFTS TEXT 1. Iohn 4.1 Dearely beloued beleeue not euery spirite bâ—â—â—â—ie the spirites whether they be of God For many false Prophets are gone out into the world ANSVVERE IT hath bene the ancient custome of Sathan and his instruments in all ages I answere not the word but the abuse of the word to abuse the holy worde and name of God as a ground vnto all their vngodly proceedings against the Lorde and his Saints that there by they might haue some colour of their persecutions and wicked attempts against the truth and professors thereof That I bee not tedious in a matter too apparant hence it is that in all the condemnations of the holy Martyrs of Christ by that Romane Tyrant We see all their processes to begin in the name of God the accusasions laid to the charge of the Saints to bee so boulstred out with the testimonies of holy Scripture as though the spirite of God had none to condemne of heresie scisme sedition and treason saue onely the members and messengers of Christ Iesus And therefore M. Bancroft if you begin with Scripture and as I may say in the name of God begin to speake against God against his blessed verity and people you doe but your kind in treading the steppes of your predecessours You haue your forefathers the Scribes and Pharises that Antichristian beast of Rome his Cardinals Bishops Legates inquisitors and all others that haue coloured their garments with the bloud of the Lords chosen for your presidents and examples The delusion of your course could not bee so great if you did shewe your selfe in your colours Your Sermon declareth that your affection serueth you rather to fight against the truth with fire and fagot then by sober writing or speaking to stand in the defence of your cause Well you deale against false Prophetes Scismatiques giddy spirites disturbers of the church enemies
needs exceed that number by many degrees Not ecclesiastical Lastly which is your 3. slanderous absurditie who told you that the gouernment ordained in the 11. of Numbers was Ecclesiasticall The very place it selfe and all the circumstances thereof doe prooue it to bee ciuill And so our men that haue written of this argument would haue taught you Master Cornel. Bertram de potialud cap. 6. if you had sought the trueth of the cause out of their writings The holy story it selfe maketh the matter to bee out of controuersie which is this in effect Numb 11. There grew an vniuersall murmuring among the people because they had not flesh to eat The authoritie of the rulers ouer thousands rulers of hundreths c. ordained by the aduise of Iethro reached not beyond the number allotted vnto theÌ„ So that the defection of the people being generall and it may bee many of their rulers ioyned with them they would not haue an answere nor bee pacified by the inferior officers but they come to Moses the chiefe gouernor would haue him to giue theÌ„ flesh Moses being sore vexed with the outcries against him expostulateth with the Lord thinking himselfe to be hardly delt with that there was none apointed for the restraining of the general â—â—â—â—itude but he himselfe alone Herupon the Lord commanded him to gather 70. of the Elders of Israell Verse 16. such saith the text as hee knew to be governors of the people the Lord would appoint theÌ„ as assistants with him to take the generall charge of the people that when the multitude would not be ruled by their inferior officers as the rulers of 1000. c. these 70. elders should be armed by the Lord with authority and gifts to beare the burthen with him and it was peformed accordingly Now M. Bancroft for whose assistance were these Elders appointed the word expresly setteth down that they were to assist Moses and therefore the offices wherunto they were ordeined were ciuil wheras if they had bin ecclesiastical they should haue bin appointed helpers vnto Aaron not vnto Moses For Moses at this time was no more to intermedle with the priesthood because Aaron his sons Num. 16.10 Exod. 28.1 were now consecrated thervnto the tribe of Leui allotted to assist Aaron euen to take the charge with him of the whole congregation Numb 3.7 in respect of the tabernacle The last time that euer Moses dealt in the office of the priesthood was at the consecration of Aaron his sons but froÌ„ the time that Aaron was receued in to the office Moses neuer medled with it any more Leu 8.90 Exod. 28.1 29.44 38.44 30.7 Leuit. 1.5 cap. 8. 9. Num. 16.10 Num. 11.23 So the cause is to clear that they who were appointed to assist Moses not Aaron wâ—â— ciuil ecclesiastical rulers Where it is said than the 70. Elders prophisied it can no more proue them to belong to the gouernment of the church then the like gift bestowed vppon Saule 1. Sam. 10.10 can make him a church-officer Seeing then M. Bancroft the platforme of Gouernment whereof you speake was neither appointed at mount Siuai nor by the counsell of Iethro nor yet ordained for the regiment of the Church but for the vse of the ciuill state and seeing you can father this exposition vpon none of these whom afterward you call the cleargie and layitie factions the consequent is that your owne ignoraunce in the cause of Christs gouernement which you oppugne hath coyned vs this most vnlearned and sencelesse exposition wherein you doe no more I grant then that which is the common custome of all your fellowes And that is to imagine that these who by the goodnes of God are seen in this cause can bring no better reasons for the defence of the same then you whose ignoraunce therein is manifest and ridiculous vnto vnto all men And indeed for your part M. Bancroft if you had any modesty in you shame of the world to omitte the conscience and sound feare of God which ought to be in a Minister of the Gospell as you would bee accounted you would giue your selfe little rest vntill either you had named vs some of these very many who affirme as you haue set downe or make open confession of your great ignorance in that cause whereunto you haue beene alwaies so great an enemy The reader may well know that you haue set downe these thinges rather of meere ignorance then of single malice only because otherwise you that are so ready to take any aduantage against your aduersaries and their arguments would haue bene glad to haue found so many breaches in one poore reason of theirs And though you would neuer so faine auoid this blot of your insufficiency yet your owne words following do witnesse that you haue spoken of the cause euen according vnto the deep knowledge that you haue thereof where you say that the Iewes in their particular Sinagogues did imitate this gouernement ordained by Moses in mount Sinai at the counsell of Iethro As though euery particuler Sinagogue of the Iewes could affoord 70. elders that were knowen to be the gouernors of the people to attend vppon the regiment of the Church It appeares that you are well seene either in the ciuill or Ecclesiasticall politie of the Iewes which appoint these elders vnto their particuler Sinagogs You might as well saye that wee in England in the gouernement of our particuler parishes by Church-wardens and Side-men doe resemble the maiestie that is in the assembly of Star chamber or at the Counsel table as that the Iewes in their particuler Sinagogues did imitate the gouernement of the 70. Elders who being ioyned in authoritie with Moses are manifested to bee the highest ciuill officers that were in all the congregation of Israel and both before and after the captiuâ—ty they are saide by the learned to haue the highest authority in the Common-wealth of the Iewes next vnto the supreame Magistrate If you had bene but meanely seene in Iosephus to omitte other writers you could not haue beene ignorant of this point The name Elder it may be is that deceiues you thinking belike that wheresoeuer wee read of any called Elders in the Scriptures wee presently take the place as making for the Eldership vnder the Gospell Wee thinke farre otherwise then so because wee finde the Gouernours of the Common wealth Reade Genesis 50.7 Iosuaâ— 6.11 as well as the rulers of the Church to be called Elders by the spirit of God Whatsoeuer then you say of false Prophets as you speake much of them in your Sermons the reader seeth that at your first assault of the cause of Christs Gouernement you haue manifested your selfe to bee of their number that speake euill of the thinges they knowe not which the holy Ghost maketh to be a marke of these false teachers 2. Pet. 2.13 by whom the way of truth in the
hath appointed Church seruaunts and widowes to the same purpose vnder the Gospell Heere by good reades thou seest that not onely wee but the holie ghost also saith those thinges concerning the regiment of the Church hoth vnder the new and olde Testament which Maister Bancroft is not able to gaine say with any colour of truth And yet it were season that either his answere or his consent should be had M. BANCROFT This forme of gouernement they cal the tabernacle which God hath appointed the glory of God and of his sonne Iesus Christ the presence of God the place which he hath chosen to put hi◠name there the courte of the Lord and the shining forth of Gods glory ANSVVERE Although I deny not but the true gouernement of the Church by the Eldershippe might haue the most of these titles truly attributed vnto it wherewith the visible Church vnder the new Testament is adorned yet the most of those names which you set downe being something insolent and strange I make no doubt but all modest writers would abstaine from them Especially knowing how subiect this cause in our time is vnto the godlesse cauils of suche as care not what they write to the disgrace thereof And because you haue set them down with out any authority for mine owne part I can no otherwise thinke of them then of the brood of your owne slaunderous spirite whereunto you can find no couert vnder the wings of your aduersaries whē you haue produced your witnesses to prooue them none of yours I will in this point alter mine opinion and it stands you vpon to cleare your selfe That which followeth in your Sermon doeth manifest both your ignorance in the cause and also that you haue so acquainted your tongue and pen with vntruthes that you are a stranger vnto the wordes of veritie and vprightnes your wordes are these D. BANCROFT page 6. line 13. VVhere this ecclesiastical Synod is not erected they say Gods ordinance is not performed the office of Christ as he is a King is not acknoledged in effect with out this gouernement we can neuer attaine to a right and trewe feeling of christian religion but are to be reckoned among those Luke 19.27 who say of Christ we wil not haue this man to raigne ouer vs. ANSVVERE As though we desire ecclesiastical Synods to be erected in euery congregation and parish or that we make no difference betwene a Synod which is a meeting of al the ministers and elders if occasion should require or more properly of some choise ministers and elders in a whole prouince or more generall and the Eldershippe which containeth the gouernors to wit the Pastors Doctors and elders of one only congregation The reader may se what a meet man you are to be an inueigher against the eldership whereas you knowe not what it meaneth and whether a Synod and an Eldership be al one or not Where this forme of ecclesiastical gouernement is not erected there indeed we say that Gods ordinance concerning the regiment of his church is not wholy obserued but that his whole ordinance is wanting where there is a faythful teacher we neuer as yet affirmed And therefore if by your generall speach that wee say Gods ordinance is not performed c. you meane that we denye any part thereof to be where the gouernement by the Eldership is not established you doe but followe your owne humor that is beare false witnesse against the truth and those that professe the same The office of Christ as he is a King is boath to teach and to gouerne his church by his own lawes Our Bishops doe professe them selues to robbe the church of the scepter of gouernement which they haue tyranuously wrested to them selues therefore we truly say that they suffer Christ to haue but halfe a kingdome at the most vnder their jurisdiction and that we feare ful sore against their wills we grant indeed that many congregations in the land doe enjoy Christ Iesus raigning among them by the scepter of his word and wee doe day and night according vnto our weake measure of faith heartily thanke our God for this blessing and beseeche him from the bottome of our hearts to shew mercy vnto our soueraigne Queene Elizabeth vnder whose peaceable gouernment we are partakers of so inestimable a treasure Yet notwithstanding it is too well knowen what a straunger the sauiour of mankinde is to the most part within our lande because the voyce of his gospell is neuer effectually heard among them and so wee may truly say that the office of Christ as he is a king is no wise acknoledged vnder the jurisdiction of our Bishops in many places of our land Againe we do so thanke the Lord for the enjoying of his Gospel preached as we cease not humbly to intreate his majestie that leeing hee hath vouchsafed vs the lauour to bee of his householde it would also please him that wee may bee ruled by the offices and lawes of his owne house For what hath the Temple of God to doe with the gouernement and statutes of the kingdome of Antichrist And we doe protest that wee will giue him no rest vntill hee hath vouchsaued to heare our supplications euen in this point And yet in the meane time we doe acknowledge his office as he is a king and doe professe our selues without this Gouernement which wee labour for to haue attained vnto some right and true feeling of christian religion though not to such a measure as we hope to reach vnto whensoeuer the Lord shall graunt vnto vs the vse of his holy ordinaunce which wee so earnestly desire This may serue M. Bancroft for a sufficient confutation of your loose and vnbridled tongue which are not ashamed to publish that without this gouernement we holde that men can neuer attaine vnto a right and true feeling of religion we haue euermore affirmed the contrary are able to proue the contrary For wee holde that those 3000. soules which in one day were added vnto the Church at Ierusalem Act. 2.41 before the Eldership was established among the disciples had a true feeling of religion wee say the same of the Church of Creta Tit. 1.5 euen before euer Titus ordained elders in euery citie among them The like iudgement wee haue of the church of England at this day But as the spirite of God recordeth that notwithstanding these Churches of Ierusalem and Creet had a true feeling of Christ yet it behooued them to submit themselues according vnto Gods ordinance vnto the gouernement of the Eldership which a Act. 15.4.6 Titus 1.5 they enioyed So say wee of our selues in Englande and of all other Churches in our case that although our knowledge and feeling were neuer so great as alas it is but too too slender yet are we to be built further and further and wrought vppon by all the holy ordinances of God least wee be depriued of that inheritance which is to bee had among
aduantage that you haue bene suffered to preach and to publish many grounds of popery vnreprooued vnder the profession of the gospell The Church of God we reuerence to bee wilfull in standing against her or any member therof we holde it vnlawfull but that men should stand in matters of question vnto her determination as vnto the vndoubted voyce of God she hath no authority to require any such obedience at our hands I dare say for you that you are vexed at the verie heart that any thing established in the Conuocation house should bee called in question when you prooue that assembly to be lawfull and the learned fathers as you call them there met to bee true Pastors and not rauening wolues wee will promise to giue greater reuerence vnto their degrees Poperie is so bannished from amonge vs that by the authority of those learned fathers you dare in open Pulpit and publike writinges iustifie many points thereof Answere to the 46.47.48.49 pages It is not onely lawfull but necessary that all men of what state soeuer they bee should be required yea compelled by the Magistrate to subscribe vnto true religion 2. Chron. 14.12 cap. 34 31.32 2. Kings 11.17 Nehem. 9.38 10.29 This we doe willingly confesse Howbeit we hold it vnlawfull to subscribe in that forme that our Bishops do exact at our hands Your reason that subscription is lawfull therefore the English or the Augustane subscription is lawfull is no other then if I should say that religion is good therefore the popishe religion is good But of all other points in your booke I cannot but greatly wonder that you seeme to iustifie the subscription vnto the Augustine confession and the silenceing of those that would not subscribe vnto it Page 47. lin 24 You are not ignoraunt I thinke that the saide confession is vnsound in the point of the Lords supper which hath set Germany on fire these many yeares As for the subscription which in England is required by statute our men haue beene alwaies ready to yeelde vnto it But the learned fathers whereof you speake seeing that by the same subscription they could haue no aduantage against the truth haue coyned a new one of their own which we hold vtterly vnlawfull because it requireth our consent vnto the popish hierarchie vnto the Apocripha and many other corruptions The which course of theirs because they are not able to iustifie therefore haue you done well to finde out a waye whereby they may easilie determine of any question or difficultie mooued vnto them So that now if we deny to subscribe vnto that which against law they require of vs vntill we be satisfied in the douts wee make whether it may be lawfull for vs to maintaine the proud and ambitious superioritie of one minister aboue another the appointing of ignorant and godlesse men vnto the Ministerie the crosse in Baptisme the prophanation of that Sacrament by women with other manifolde abuses which we are vrged to approoue their answere may be according vnto your rule that they beeing the learned fathers of our Church haue in their lawfull assemblies decreed that this subscription should bee called for and they see no reason why popery being now bannished c. wee should not attribute as much vnto their decrees as other men in times past haue done Looke M. Bancroft in the place set downe before And so if we were dutifull children we would submit our selues without any wilful contradiction vnto their godlie determination seeing the Lord hath by his promise tied himselfe vnto them being his Church for this purpose Now if we shall reply any thing againe as being vnsatisfied by this resolution wee are presently cried out vppon as being giddie Spirites and men that cannot bee content with any good order established by lawe and approoued by our betters euen such as gaue their bloud for the testimony of the truth And thus in stead of answering our reasons they inuent slanders against vs and fall out with our conclusion according vnto Master Bancrofts manner of dealing Whereof as I haue often before admonished the reader so nowe I haue special occasion to put him in minde of the same concerning his dealing with vs touching the booke of common prayer and the point of her maiesties supremacy Wherein he spendeth 20. pages for the most part From the 50. to the 72. pages wee shewe diuers corruptions to be in that booke wee set downe the particulars as baptim by weomen crosse in baptime ring in matriage appropriating of garmentes to the vse of religion and grosser coruptions as Arianisme where the booke maketh Michael to bee a creature The Collect on Michaels day and addeth vnto the word as psalme 14. in which place 3. verses that is the 5.6.7 are added vnto the text more then euer the holy Ghost penned in that psalme with other grieuous corruptions which I passe ouer Nowe howe doth M. Bancroft thinke you deale for the credit of the booke in answering these particulars hee toucheth not one of them but first of all hee telleth his auditors howe glad al the churches in Europ were at the establishing of religion Page 15. in the beginning of her Maiesties raigne And for our partes wee wish them confusion that doe not reioice at it Page 53. From 54.58 Secondly hauing set down what paines was taken in reforming the booke hee bringeth in diuers testimonies of godlye learned men to prooue that the booke is in a manner without spotte or wemme whereby what doth hee els but fall out with our conclusion Wee charge the booke with diuers particular corruptions we bring our proofes Page 61. he is not able to answere them Therefore our conclusion wil stand firme that the booke is corrupt The general commendations of all the men in the world is not able to cleare it when it is not denied to containe many grosse particular falts Thirdely he falleth a quarreling with a newe communion booke preferred in parliament Page 62.63 the yeare 86. and caueleth diuers waies against the same As that it had bin diuers times altered that it mencioned not the ciuil magistrate in the first edition and that it doth not tye the minister to any set forme of prayer c. Al which points I omit as friuolous and vngodly cauils not to be stood vpon Lastly he falleth to his olde bias that is to plaine slaundering Page 67. and affirmeth that one of our reasons whie wee holde the established gouernment of the church of England to be Antichristian is because the ciuil Magistrate is made a Pope amongst vs and that we cal her maiesties supremacie vnto question wherevnto wee answere no otherwise then Nehemiah did Sanballat Nehem. 6.8 It is not done according vnto these wordes that thou sayest but thou fainest them of thine own hart Looke whatsoeuer prerogatiue in ecclesiastical or ciuil causes hee or any man liuinge can truly attribute vnto the ciuil magistrate wee