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Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	church_n	day_n	great_a	1,992	5	2.9426	3	true

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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
B02879	The result of a dialogue concerning the middle-state of souls. Wherein is asserted, the ancient doctrine of their relief, obtainable by prayers, alms, &c. before the day of judgment. / By F.D. professor of divinity.	Franciscus a Sancta Clara, 1598-1680.	1660 (1660)	Wing D355A; ESTC R175909	24,202	157

faithfully the abundant Alms by Legacy left to Monasteries for the souls of the deceased which uniformly agrees with the Modern practise of both Churches and therfore doubtless the sense of both Churches as now they appear evidently to be the same so in all antiquity they were uniform as to hope of relief by prayers especially by Masses as there is clear and in many private Latine Synods Neither can it be other than a great Sophism to accuse the Roman Churches Offertory as if in praying to deliver the souls of the Faithfull a poenis inferni which is a general term signifying both and so used it should import any thing else here than from the pains of Purgatory to life which cannot have any other sense than of Purgatory since there is no redemption in Hell and the souls for which they pray die no otherwise Again the Church in the Collects prayes to give them refrigerii sedem c. a seat of refreshment which speaks our Purgatory These and all other Texts assure us of the Churches sense of praying to deliver them before the great day however by strengh of wit the clearest actions may be in order to weaker judgements made dubious as we see in Courts the best causes by corrupted advocates so clouded that they seem unjust But the knowledge of this is so universal that here may be said what St. Augustine lib. de duabus anim c. 12 saith of liberty Nonne ista cantant in montibus pastores theatris Poetae indocti in circulis docti● in Bibliothecis Magistri in scholis antistites in locis sacris in orbe terrarum genus humanum All sorts of Christians each in their several postures and vocations witness this truth CHAP. V. Traditions alone cannot prove faith in all Articles THis was S. Hieroms and all the Fathers one though not only constant test of new doctrines And you professedly esteeming the testimony of the present age to conveigh certainly the sense of the precedent do and must consequently hold it to be an infallible test to discern even matters of Faith so that ad hominem this were strong if we had onely the present age But surely Scriptures and Traditions are the adequate source of Christian truths in the received opinion of Doctors And the Councel of Trent in the first Session seems to suppose it in order to the general And truly all the former Councels did no less Neither can I see that your Topick alone will salve all occurrences and therefore St. Paul refers the Thessalonians to his Epistles and Sermons joyntly and S. Irenaeus l. 3. c. 4. shews the necessity of both So S. Aug. and the rest But by endeavouring to infringe any pretence of a definition as to this of helping souls in Purgatory before Doomsday you struck upon a medium which if not rightly understood is of an ill consequent CHAP. VI. Charity consists with Purgatory The various operations of charity Wherein consists the chiefest penalty of Purgatory FOr the purport of your discourse seems to hint at this that a necessity of retention of souls out of heaven till due penal expiation be accomplisht will enervate the dignity of charity Cicero lib. 3. de finibus saith notably speaking of Philosophy Hujusmodi dicere ornare velle puerile est plane autem perspicue expedire posse docti intelligentis est viri Your almost connatural obscurity renders you sometimes to be misconstrued to your prejudice It is true that charity if perfect is a sufficient disposition to glory at least as far as relates to exclusion of punishment for former transgressions which easily concludes a soul dying in that perfect condition not to need any other temporary expiation But the midle sort of Christians who onely have their concernment in Purgatory according to Saint Augustine and the Councel of Florence though they die indeed in charity yet is supposed not to be so intense as wholly to dispose their souls for present blisse And therefore in order to such the Church asserts further expiation and penal detention necessary for a longer or a shorter terme according to the secret rules of Gods wisdom wherein though our time is not the measure of spiritual substances or sufferings which have no parts to answer to the parts of our time and therefore are not greater or lesse for the extrinsecal and disparate consideration of a shorter or longer continuance precisely as to time yet their inward necessity of existing in that condition of separation not only from their bodies but from the sight of God in the dregs of sin till God changeth them is highly penable as being alwaies present to their intuition and affection whereas in bodies where every thing is measured by motion it would be far less as having succession of parts than now being altogether according to the nature of eviternity which surely renders it incomparably greater than if it were by one part after another And though it is indivisible as to its essence and existence being spiritual and therefore cannot be measured otherwise than by a proportionable in-divisible measure as now I will suppose against some others yet it hath co-existence with the parts of our time as Aristotle 4. Phys saith Idem nunc secundum substantiam differt secundum esse that is although an instant is the same indivisible in order to it self yet it differs as compared to time And hence a soul which hath been in Purgatory twenty years is truly said to have been longer there than another which was seperate from the body yesterday and consequently hath suffered the hard consequences of it even altogether so long If we speculate this a little further we find that as indeed the soul being in-divisible it hath an in-divisible measure yet as that instant or measure called Aeviternity is alwaies and altogether present so there is alwaies present in it a priority which we call of nature As Agents which are free in the same real instant when they resolve to do any thing have a priority of nature wherein it is not affirmable that they do resolve but are as it were about to do it and this continues so long as the real instant it self doth And therefore Aristotle will tell us that the will even when it doth decree any thing it hath power not to do it that is as referring to that priority of nature Whence followes even in your own principles that the soul which went to Purgatory many years agoe is now as capable to have an act which it never had as then and therefore it may be as truly said to have an act this day which it never had and consequently may as truly be said to be changed But this whole matter is fitter for the Schooles to dispute then for Chatechizers to instruct in matter of Faith of which more hereafter You seem under a pretence of putting a due estimate upon an abstracted or a Metaphysicated charity for such yours almost seems

sin so of goodnesse Whence they rationally teach that a man who doth not onely intend but effectually giveth Alms or the like doth add a degree of goodnesse and consequently may hope for a greater reward than if he had contained himselfe within the bounds of his Will Whence will further follow that corporal afflictions even in themselves may properly serve as emanations from a soule afflicted for sin or as exercises of which the body is only capable flowing from the love of God as surely they are in a true contrite spirit And in this kinde in holy Writ they are by true Penitents sometimes voluntarily undertaken other times by Gods orders inflicted and accepted in order to remission of sins and this not alwayes miraculous as the Texts of holy Scriptures shew If it were miraculous as sometimes it is and you have well pondered it is so far from enervating that it demonstratively confirms Gods acceptance of the Churches Doctrine and practice as to corporal afflictions to the end assigned as is also clearly shewed in the place quoted of the Councel of Trent as also Sess 6. c. 14. And hence holy Church by Gods orders injoyns Sacramental pennances these I know you do not reject which are deletory of the dregs of sin that is they may exercise the soule in intending Charity infused by God upon sorrow and the efficacy of the Sacrament By which means is often wrought an absolute extinction of sin that is even of those veleities which frequently trouble us after the height of our former mortal malice by help of the Sacraments derived from our blessed Saviours Passion was extinguished and pardoned As concerning some seeming excrescencies which you and some others carped at and the like Sir Thomas More also jested at I believe no judicious Catholique wil pretend that they have strict acquaintance with Church Orders but are onely a sort of begottery into which Devotion not well regulated easily degenerates But you must not under this pretence laugh at all inferiour sorts of Piety and Devotion which are to be proportioned to each capacity I conclude as to this with St. Augustine l. 12. de Civit. c. 15. treating of Angels Vereor ne facilius judicer affirmare quod nescio quam docere quod scio I had rather be not knowing with submission to holy Churches orders than swell in a vain opinion of my knowledge in prejudice of the least of them And this must be except we would hear from the spirit of God ivistis in adinventionibus vestris ye have left me and walked in your own inventions Christian Religion doth not receiv estrength by the weaknesse of our reason but our reason is elevated by the strength of Christian Religion And therefore how apparent soever it is it must vail bonet if a contest be interjected And therefore Master White in his Controversie-Logick and his fourteenth reflection teacheth thus consonant to Vincentius Lirinensis speaking of Origen and Apollinarius their failings and falls How mean pittiful a change it is to fall from the splendid authority of the whole Church to the obscure authority of a private Doctor be he what he will Surely it deserves an Aegyptian Pyramid to perpetuate it against all innovations and particularly against this which we have rejected Yet there are a sort of Opiniators as Cicero calls them who fancy each strong fancy of theirs to be demonstrations to which all who will not incurre the note of ignorance must subscribe as well in Morals as in questions touching faith Whereas St. Augustine l. 1. Retract c. 21. disputing learnedly and largely of the sence of our Lords words to Saint Peter super hanc Petram c. concludes thus Harum duarum sententiarum quaesit probabilis eligat lector Antiquity then did not disalow probable opinions nor presently fancy their own conceits to be demonstrations much lesse forbid others to follow such which they judged probable Which is now too much cryed down and truly as to Morals I conceive I have demonstrated in my Enchyridion Dial. that probability is enough CHAP. XII The designe of this Treatise WHereas you say I dare not assert the contrary opinion of the souls continuing in Purgatory till the day of judgement to be Heresie It is easily replyed first with Bellarmine that to prescribe any term to particular persons and much more to the general that is to determine months or yeares non nisi temerè definiri potest it is a great temerity because as he saith solidly it is resincertissima there is nothing more uncertain in all Christian principles For indeed here is neither reason nor revelation to conduct us He spoke upon occasion of Scotus his opinion who thought according to the measures he made of Gods mercies that none would stay in Purgatory above ten years Which weak ground brought Origen into his error of promising a period to the pains of Hell Thus great wits still produce by strength of fancy new grounds and thence often new errors into the Church but to assert a detayning all soules in Purgatory till doomesday notwithstanding the Churches Suffrages Alms and pious helps is for ought I can see a novelty and if so it is easily proved to be a falsehood for amongst the ancient 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 were almost equal crimes as accompanying each other To what you demand further it is easily rejoyned from our blessed Saviours example Quis constituit me Judicem I am no Judge of Controversies That is referr'd to S. Peters chair Therefore I dare not indeed presumptuously censure other Catholike Doctors opinions whose persons and learning I justly reverence Keeping my self therefore within the bounds of the Schooles my design is onely to vindicate the Churches Doctrine and constant practise as I am able to understand it from ignorance and Novelty In this none can justly blame me Neither ought any to conceive themselves to be particularly concerned in it the rather because I do not believe when they speak clearly of their long Purgatory that they intend any further than in order to natural causes in respect of which as the Souls are not capable to be changed as you learnedly and truly teach after and with Mr. White so by force of such or by order of Nature they cannot change their posture from Purgatory to Heaven which is a great truth If any will go further I say with St Paul Non sic didici Christum I must leave them yet with St. Hieroms Proviso in his Dialogue against Pelagius l. 3. In dogmatibus disserendis non persona sed causa quaerenda est I touch no mans person Scotus teacheth his followers treating St. Cyprians case to be modest in their tenets conceiving there may be venial sin in being too forward or heady even before Canonical declarations or determinations and St. Hierome Apol. l. 2. saith Si quaestiones de animaestatu in Vrbe commotae sunt quae est ista qucrimonia vel querela quae utrùm recipi debeat Episcoporum judicio derelinquitur This must be decided by Bishops chiefly by the Bishop of Rome as he teacheth against Ruffinus in the same Apology and in his 67 Epistle to Theophilus he saith notably Scito nihil nobis esse antiquius quàm Christi jura servare nec patrum transferre terminos semperque meminisse Romanam fidem Apostolico ore laudatam cujus se esse participem Alexandrina Ecclesia gloriatur We must all glory to submit to the decisions of Rome when Patriarckes themselves are taught to do it According therefore to our friends desire I onely let him know for prevention of mistakes what I have learned in Scotus and St. Thomas their Schooles and what was the substance of our amicable Collation in nothing as I hope violating the lawes of true Christian friendship which I hold sacred as being consistent with that well measured Gradation Amicus Plato amicus Aristoteles magis amica VERITAS Which method as you know was religiously observed by learned Sir Thomas More in his sharp congresses with Tindal when he objected his great friend Erasmus his version reduplicating in vain the notion of a friend against the sense of Holy Church FINIS