matter_n of_o difference_n in_o the_o assembly_n whereby_o it_o may_v be_v bring_v to_o a_o uniformity_n you_o endeavour_v by_o this_o apology_n a_o toleration_n and_o sue_v for_o a_o exemption_n of_o conjunction_n and_o uniformity_n in_o church_n government_n which_o be_v strange_a you_o shall_v desire_v especial_o have_v coveâ—…anted_v to_o the_o contrary_a which_o breach_n of_o covenant_n be_v aggravate_v also_o that_o you_o do_v not_o only_o do_v it_o yourselves_o but_o you_o labour_v to_o bring_v the_o house_n into_o it_o by_o move_v they_o to_o grant_v you_o a_o toleration_n now_o if_o a_o simple_a and_o single_a untruth_n need_v repentance_n what_o repentâ—…nce_n ought_v there_o to_o be_v for_o such_o a_o compound_v aggravate_v evil_a as_o you_o â—…s_v and_o as_o i_o have_v represent_v it_o to_o your_o own_o conscience_n that_o you_o may_v smite_v upon_o the_o thigh_n so_o i_o turn_v you_o over_o to_o your_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n that_o they_o deal_v with_o you_o for_o your_o great_a sin_n and_o either_o bring_v you_o to_o conâ—…ion_n and_o repentance_n or_o else_o proceed_v to_o censure_v do_v i_o know_v where_o your_o church_n dwell_v and_o where_o they_o meet_v i_o may_v then_o come_v and_o complain_v to_o they_o of_o your_o great_a sin_n but_o in_o stead_n of_o come_v i_o send_v they_o this_o answer_n and_o hereby_o give_v they_o notice_n and_o 〈◊〉_d ready_a to_o satisfy_v any_o that_o shall_v desire_v further_a proof_n and_o in_o stead_n of_o declare_v by_o letter_n the_o offence_n i_o do_v by_o print_v declare_v it_o and_o require_v of_o the_o church_n especial_o mr_n sympson_n church_n as_o they_o will_v not_o be_v guilty_a of_o suffer_v know_v sin_n in_o the_o church_n as_o they_o will_v not_o suffer_v sin_n to_o lie_v upon_o a_o brother_n and_o as_o they_o will_v vindicate_v the_o glory_n and_o honour_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o call_v mr_n sympson_n to_o a_o account_n and_o admonish_v he_o and_o bring_v he_o to_o public_a repentance_n for_o his_o public_a sin_n or_o else_o upon_o impenitency_n and_o obstinacy_n that_o they_o cast_v he_o out_o of_o the_o church_n and_o i_o believe_v the_o sin_n he_o be_v charge_v with_o will_v fall_v under_o the_o subject_n of_o that_o dreadful_a sentence_n according_a to_o what_o sin_n yourselves_o judge_v that_o sentence_n be_v to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n for_o apol._n pag._n 9_o but_o if_o mr_n sympson_n church_n neglect_n and_o will_v not_o question_v this_o sin_n than_o i_o desire_v the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n of_o that_o communion_n to_o send_v to_o the_o church_n of_o the_o apologist_n and_o to_o charge_v they_o with_o their_o countenance_v of_o sin_n and_o if_o the_o church_n will_v still_o bear_v and_o wink_v at_o sin_n and_o continue_v impenitent_a that_o then_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n namely_o mr_n lockiers_n mr_n carter_n dr_n holmes_n etc._n etc._n do_v pronounce_v the_o heavy_a sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o apologist_n church_n and_o further_o to_o dèclare_v and_o protest_v this_o with_o the_o cause_n thereof_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a to_o send_v also_o to_o new-england_n and_o give_v notice_n to_o all_o the_o church_n of_o the_o separation_n that_o they_o may_v non-communion_n the_o apologist_n church_n but_o if_o the_o particular_a church_n of_o the_o apologist_n and_o all_o the_o church_n of_o their_o own_o communion_n will_v all_o hold_v to_o favour_v sin_n neither_o question_n the_o apologist_n nor_o their_o church_n than_o we_o shall_v have_v a_o clear_a instance_n of_o the_o partiality_n of_o those_o church_n and_o of_o their_o allow_v of_o sin_n among_o themselves_o and_o of_o the_o insuâ—…ticiencie_n of_o those_o remedy_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n declaration_n and_o protestation_n finis_fw-la finis_fw-la calv._n epist_n 65._o melanct._n verum_fw-la si_fw-la in_o nobis_fw-la omnibus_fw-la esset_fw-la be_v animus_n qul_fw-la esse_fw-la debet_fw-la aliquod_fw-la forsan_fw-la remedium_fw-la posset_n inveniti_fw-la et_fw-la certè_fw-la foedum_fw-la exemplum_fw-la transmiâ—…imus_fw-la ad_fw-la posterot_n etc._n etc._n august_n vincentio_n epist._n 48._o nunc_fw-la vero_fw-la etiam_fw-la si_fw-la tibi_fw-la nihil_fw-la profit_n non_fw-la puto_fw-la nihil_fw-la ijs_fw-la profuturam_fw-la qui_fw-la eam_fw-la legere_fw-la cum_fw-la deitimore_n &_o sine_fw-la personarum_fw-la acceptione_n curaverint_fw-la a_o beza_n epist._n 1._o and_o 1._o duditio_fw-la dominus_fw-la te_fw-la totamque_fw-la familiam_fw-la ob_fw-la omni_fw-la malo_fw-la ac_fw-la praesertim_fw-la a_o daemoniss_n meridianis_fw-la istie_a obambulantibus_fw-la custodiat_fw-la custodiat_fw-la mat._n 1._o v._n 18_o 19_o act_n 7._o from_o v_o 2._o to_o v_o 57_o act_n 22._o v_o 1._o to_o five_o 2â—…_n act_n cap_n 24._o act_n cap._n 26._o 26._o justin._n mart._n 2._o apolog._n pro_fw-la christianis_fw-la tertul._n apol._n athenag_n apol._n vel_fw-la legatio_fw-la pro_fw-la christianis_fw-la athanas._n apol._n arnobij_fw-la apol._n eulog_n apologâ—…t_fw-la sanctorum_fw-la martyr_n martyr_n zuinglij_fw-la apol_n qua_fw-la ad_fw-la crimina_fw-la respondet_fw-la apologet._n contra_fw-la episcop_n constant._n bucer_n apolog._n contra_fw-la brentium_n dannaei_fw-la apolog._n pro_fw-la helvet_n ecclesijs_fw-la apolog_fw-la dan._n pro_fw-la adoratione_n melancthonis_n apol._n august_n confess_v apolog._n pro_fw-la luthero_n gualtb_n apol_n pro_fw-la zuinglio_n beza_n apolog._n jevelli_n apolog._n eccl._n anglicanae_n mort._n apol._n cathol_a cathol_a scâ—…venfeld_n apol._n contra_fw-la fabium_fw-la apol_n ad_fw-la regeâ—…_n hung._n de_fw-fr mediatione_fw-la stancari_fw-la apolog._n vorstij_fw-la thesis_n apolog._n exeg_n apol._n oratio_fw-la apolog._n bertij_fw-la apolog._n apolog._n remonstrantium_fw-la apolog._n schast_a francae_fw-la d._n p._n dirick_n pâ—…ps_v apol_n apolog._n episcop_n francisc._n the_o saint_n tâ—_n cl._n cl._n apology_n of_o the_o brownist_n robin_n apolog._n justif._n of_o separate_a separate_a apolog._n for_o ch._n cove_n apol._n reply_v davenport_n *_o page_n 4._o 11_o 19_o 12_o 24._o apolog._n apolog._n m_o s._n to_o a._n s._n cap._n 5._o pag._n 83._o apolog._n dissert_n de_fw-fr guber_n eccl._n pag._n 620._o quinam_fw-la bujuâ—…_n criminis_fw-la rei_fw-la judicentur_fw-la i_o quidem_fw-la latet_fw-la neque_fw-la in_o qirere_fw-la ad_fw-la nos_fw-la attinet_fw-la hoc_fw-la scio_fw-la noâ—…_n convenire_fw-la in_o eos_fw-la qui_fw-la intra_fw-la sententiae_fw-la nostrae_fw-la terminos_fw-la se_fw-la continent_n apolog._n to_o his_o love_a friend_n mr_n henry_n king_n mr_n tost_n mr_n smith_n mr_n raner_n mr_n map_n apolog._n apol._n justa_fw-la &_o necessaria_fw-la per_fw-la joh._n robins_n cap._n 6._o de_fw-fr conjugio_fw-la per_fw-la pastor_n ecclesiae_fw-la celebrato_fw-la reformat_fw-la of_o ch._n govern._n in_o scotland_n pag._n 4_o 5_o 18_o 19_o reformat_fw-la of_o ch._n govern._n in_o scotland_n pag._n 10._o reformat_fw-la of_o ch._n govern._n pag._n 18._o it_o be_v lay_v for_o a_o common_a ground_n by_o the_o divine_n in_o all_o the_o â—…eformed_a church_n that_o where_o a_o whole_a nation_n be_v convert_v to_o the_o christian_a faith_n every_o particular_a church_n be_v not_o to_o be_v leave_v to_o itself_o as_o if_o it_o be_v alone_o in_o a_o nation_n but_o that_o christ_n have_v provide_v a_o way_n and_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n of_o a_o common_a national_n government_n to_o preserve_v all_o the_o churchâ—…_n in_o unity_n and_o peace_n apolog._n page_n 9_o meâ—…ch_o adam_n vita_fw-la whitak_n pag._n 177._o mr_n raâ—…b_n narration_n of_o ch._n course_n p._n 1._o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n in_o new-england_n come_v at_o first_o to_o they_o in_o plymouth_n to_o crave_v their_o direction_n in_o ch._n course_n and_o make_v they_o their_o pattern_n apolog._n letter_n mr_n cotton_v letter_n examine_v and_o answer_v pag._n 44._o mr_n cotton_n himself_o and_o other_o most_o eminent_a minister_n in_o nâ—…w-england_n have_v free_o confess_v that_o notwithstanding_o their_o former_a profession_n of_o ministry_n in_o old_a england_n yet_o in_o new-england_n till_o they_o receive_v a_o particular_a call_n from_o a_o particular_a church_n that_o they_o be_v but_o private_a christian_n apolog._n robin_n p._n 10_o 11._o etc._n etc._n 12._o de_fw-fr eccl._n angl._n angl._n robin_n apol._n cap._n 12._o p_o 78._o propria_fw-la inquâ—…_n &_o peculiaria_fw-la in_o quibus_fw-la verbi_fw-la auditionem_fw-la simpliciter_fw-la noâ—…_n annumero_fw-la â—…pote_fw-la inqua_fw-la non_fw-la intercedit_fw-la inter_fw-la docentem_fw-la &_o discentem_fw-la communio_fw-la spiritualiâ—…_n sive_fw-la eccl._n sive_fw-la personalis_fw-la nisi_fw-la ex_fw-la union_n prae_fw-la via_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la aut_fw-la personal_a robin_n catechis_n quest._n may_v all_o the_o faithful_a partake_v in_o the_o sacrament_n ans._n no_o except_o they_o be_v also_o add_v to_o some_o particular_a congregation_n apolog._n letter_n out_o of_o holland_n de_fw-fr ecclesijs_fw-la reformatis_fw-la quid_fw-la aliud_fw-la dicam_fw-la eas_fw-la pro_fw-la veris_fw-la &_o genuinis_fw-la etc._n etc._n ecclesijs_fw-la bahemus_fw-la cum_fw-la eisdem_fw-la in_o sacris_fw-la dei_fw-la communionem_fw-la prositemur_fw-la &_o quantum_fw-la in_o nobis_fw-la est_fw-la colimus_fw-la conciones_fw-la publicas_fw-la ab_fw-la illarum_fw-la pastoribus_fw-la habitas_fw-la ex_fw-la
as_o they_o see_v just_a ground_n the_o controversy_n be_v at_o a_o end_n 4._o the_o corporation_n that_o be_v those_o in_o place_n and_o power_n if_o they_o proceed_v unjust_o be_v accountable_a to_o the_o state_n they_o live_v in_o that_o be_v to_o a_o high_a civil_a power_n and_o adjudge_v themselves_o in_o case_n of_o wrong_n condemn_v the_o innocent_a suffer_v delinquent_n to_o escape_n but_o your_o corporation_n of_o particular_a congregation_n even_o in_o case_n of_o real_a administration_n be_v against_o all_o judge_a and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n out_o of_o your_o own_o congregation_n to_o the_o five_o reason_n hint_v by_o you_o to_o strengthen_v your_o practice_n that_o it_o be_v safe_a and_o allow_v and_o the_o reform_a church_n more_o questionable_a namely_o appeal_n to_o they_o who_o have_v read_v book_n whether_o much_o have_v be_v write_v with_o strength_n set_o and_o direct_o to_o prove_v that_o government_n but_o rather_o to_o overthrow_v episcopal_a and_o to_o maintain_v those_o several_a officer_n in_o church_n which_o christ_n have_v institute_v and_o therefore_o you_o infer_v you_o may_v have_v more_o ground_n to_o question_v this_o government_n of_o combine_a classical_a presbyterial_a government_n i_o answer_v the_o ground_n of_o that_o be_v full_o lay_v down_o in_o the_o reformation_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n page_n 17_o and_o 18._o with_o a_o account_n of_o what_o have_v be_v write_v and_o do_v by_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o france_n for_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n and_o against_o the_o popular_a independent_a way_n which_o be_v more_o than_o you_o once_o in_o this_o reason_n hint_v but_o suppose_v that_o in_o former_a write_n of_o calvin_n beza_n zanchius_n peter_n martyr_n danaeus_n junius_n zeppâ—…rus_n gersom_a bucerus_n dr_n reynolds_n parker_n there_o have_v not_o be_v much_o set_o and_o direct_o insist_v on_o and_o with_o strength_n to_o prove_v the_o government_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o in_o some_o of_o these_o more_o especial_o as_o against_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n and_o episcopal_a government_n much_o strength_n be_v bring_v for_o the_o government_n by_o synod_n and_o class_n yet_o that_o which_o those_o divine_n of_o scotland_n holland_n england_n have_v write_v of_o late_a against_o the_o independent_a congregationall_a government_n may_v have_v be_v enough_o to_o have_v satisfy_v you_o and_o that_o be_v not_o material_a that_o no_o more_o have_v write_v see_v out_o of_o the_o mouth_n of_o two_o or_o three_o witness_n every_o word_n shall_v be_v establish_v and_o if_o these_o book_n have_v not_o strength_n to_o satisfy_v you_o why_o have_v not_o you_o all_o this_o while_n answer_v they_o but_o i_o must_v mind_v you_o of_o forget_v one_o of_o your_o own_o divine_n for_o beside_o the_o learned_a licensers_n book_n against_o independency_n another_o book_n be_v write_v call_v reason_n against_o the_o independent_a government_n of_o particular_a congregation_n and_o the_o toleration_n of_o they_o in_o this_o kingdom_n which_o book_n in_o your_o seem_a to_o take_v no_o notice_n of_o i_o believe_v you_o remember_v above_o the_o rest_n and_o in_o the_o 25_o page_n of_o your_o apology_n it_o appear_v you_o remember_v it_o but_o the_o author_n of_o it_o belike_o be_v none_o of_o your_o divine_n and_o in_o the_o close_a now_o of_o this_o answer_n to_o your_o reason_n hint_v about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n of_o the_o church_n why_o you_o in_o your_o congregationall_a way_n shall_v be_v in_o the_o truth_n but_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v a_o question_n to_o you_o and_o judge_v a_o additament_n because_o the_o presbyterian_o allow_v you_o what_o you_o practise_v and_o grant_v what_o you_o hold_v but_o themselves_o hold_v and_o practise_v over_o and_o above_o i_o answer_v this_o be_v no_o argument_n at_o all_o for_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n the_o samaritan_n shall_v have_v worship_v god_n true_o but_o the_o jew_n false_o and_o the_o samaritan_n may_v have_v 22._o say_v to_o the_o jew_n as_o you_o do_v to_o the_o presbyteriann_n the_o five_o book_n of_o moses_n which_o we_o own_v to_o be_v sure_a they_o be_v from_o god_n you_o acknowledge_v they_o but_o for_o the_o book_n of_o the_o prophet_n that_o be_v a_o question_n which_o rest_v upon_o you_o that_o allow_v what_o we_o hold_v to_o make_v evident_a and_o demonstrate_v and_o so_o the_o jew_n may_v now_o by_o the_o same_o reason_n speak_v against_o the_o christian_n and_o say_v we_o be_v in_o the_o safe_a way_n to_o be_v sure_a we_o practise_v safe_o for_o you_o christian_n confess_v what_o we_o hold_v namely_o moses_n and_o the_o prophet_n to_o be_v the_o scripture_n but_o for_o the_o new_a testament_n that_o be_v to_o we_o a_o question_n and_o a_o additament_n which_o therefore_o rest_v upon_o you_o christian_n to_o make_v good_a who_o believe_v and_o practice_v over_o and_o above_o we_o and_o whereas_o the_o common_a prejudice_n and_o exception_n lay_v into_o all_o apolog._n man_n thought_n against_o we_o and_o our_o opinion_n be_v that_o in_o such_o a_o congregationall_a government_n thus_o entire_a within_o itself_o there_o be_v no_o allow_v sufficient_a remedy_n for_o miscarriage_n though_o never_o so_o grossâ—…_n no_o relief_n for_o wrongful_a sentence_n or_o person_n injure_v thereby_o no_o room_n for_o complaint_n no_o powerful_a or_o effectual_a mean_n to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n that_o fall_v into_o heresy_n schism_n etc._n etc._n but_o every_o one_o be_v leave_v and_o may_v take_v liberty_n without_o control_n to_o do_v what_o be_v good_a in_o their_o own_o eye_n we_o have_v through_o the_o good_a providence_n of_o god_n upon_o we_o from_o the_o avow_a declaration_n of_o our_o judgement_n among_o our_o church_n mutual_o during_o our_o exile_n and_o that_o also_o confirm_v by_o the_o most_o solemn_a instance_n of_o our_o practice_n wherewith_o to_o vindicate_v ourselves_o and_o way_n in_o this_o particular_a which_o upon_o no_o other_o occasion_n we_o shall_v ever_o have_v make_v thus_o public_a god_n so_o order_v it_o that_o a_o scandal_n and_o offence_n fall_v out_o between_o those_o very_a church_n whilst_o live_v in_o this_o banishment_n whereof_o we_o ourselves_o that_o write_v these_o thing_n be_v then_o the_o minister_n one_o of_o our_o church_n have_v unhappy_o depose_v one_o of_o their_o minister_n the_o other_o judge_v it_o not_o only_o as_o too_o sudden_a a_o act_n have_v proceed_v in_o a_o matter_n of_o so_o great_a moment_n without_o â—…nsulting_v their_o sister_n church_n as_o be_v public_o profess_v we_o shall_v have_v do_v in_o such_o case_n of_o concernment_n but_o also_o in_o the_o proceed_n thereof_o as_o too_o severe_a and_o not_o manage_v according_a to_o the_o rule_v lay_v down_o in_o the_o word_n in_o this_o case_n our_o church_n do_v mutual_o and_o universal_o acknowledge_v and_o submit_v to_o this_o as_o a_o sacred_a and_o undoubted_a principle_n and_o supreme_a law_n to_o be_v observe_v among_o all_o church_n that_o as_o by_o virtue_n of_o that_o apostolical_a command_n church_n as_o well_o as_o particular_a man_n be_v bind_v to_o give_v no_o offence_n neither_o to_o jew_n nor_o gentile_a nor_o the_o church_n of_o god_n they_o live_v among_o so_o that_o in_o all_o case_n of_o such_o offence_n or_o difference_n by_o the_o obligation_n of_o the_o common_a law_n of_o communion_n of_o church_n and_o for_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o glory_n of_o christ_n which_o in_o common_a they_o holdforth_o the_o church_n or_o church_n challenge_v to_o offend_v or_o differ_v be_v to_o submit_v themselves_o upon_o the_o challenge_n of_o the_o offence_n or_o complaint_n of_o the_o person_n wrong_v to_o the_o most_o full_a and_o open_a trial_n and_o examination_n by_o other_o neighbour_n church_n offend_v thereat_o of_o what_o ever_o have_v give_v the_o offence_n and_o further_o that_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o same_o and_o like_a law_n of_o not_o partake_v in_o other_o man_n sin_n the_o church_n offend_v may_n and_o aught_o upon_o the_o impenitency_n of_o those_o church_n persist_v in_o their_o error_n and_o miscarriage_n to_o pronounce_v that_o heavy_a sentence_n against_o they_o of_o withdraw_a and_o renounce_v all_o christian_a communion_n with_o they_o until_o they_o do_v repent_v and_o further_o to_o declare_v and_o protest_v this_o with_o the_o cause_n thereof_o to_o all_o other_o church_n of_o christ_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o further_a authority_n or_o proceed_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a of_o one_o or_o many_o sister_n church_n towards_o another_o whole_a church_n or_o church_n offend_v either_o the_o scripture_n do_v holdforth_o or_o can_v rational_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n without_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v a_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n unto_o which_o we_o upon_o his_o particular_a cognisance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n profess_v ever_o to_o submit_v and_o also_o to_o
be_v most_o willing_a to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o for_o our_o part_n we_o see_v not_o then_o nor_o do_v yet_o see_v and_o likewise_o we_o do_v then_o suppose_v and_o do_v yet_o that_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v unto_o other_o church_n offend_v together_o with_o this_o other_o that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n from_o christ_n enjoin_v to_o church_n that_o be_v final_o offend_v to_o pronounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o withdraw_n from_o they_o while_o impenitent_a ac_fw-la unworthy_a to_o hold_v forth_o the_o name_n of_o christ_n these_o principle_n be_v receive_v and_o general_o acknowledge_v by_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n to_o be_v a_o mutual_a duty_n as_o strict_o enjoin_v they_o by_o christ_n as_o any_o other_o that_o these_o will_v be_v as_o effectual_a mean_n through_o the_o blessing_n of_o christ_n to_o awe_v and_o preserve_v church_n and_o their_o elder_n in_o their_o duty_n as_o that_o other_o of_o claim_n to_o a_o authoritative_a power_n ecclesiastical_a to_o excommunicate_v other_o church_n or_o their_o elder_n offend_v for_o if_o the_o one_o be_v compare_v with_o the_o other_o in_o a_o mere_a ecclesiastical_a notion_n that_o of_o excommunication_n pretend_v have_v but_o this_o more_o in_o it_o that_o it_o be_v a_o deliver_v of_o whole_a church_n and_o their_o elder_n offend_v unto_o satan_n for_o which_o we_o know_v no_o warrant_n in_o the_o scripture_n that_o church_n shall_v have_v such_o a_o power_n over_o other_o church_n and_o then_o as_o for_o the_o bind_a obligation_n both_o of_o the_o one_o way_n and_o the_o other_o it_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o lie_v but_o in_o these_o two_o thing_n first_o in_o a_o warrant_n and_o injunction_n give_v by_o christ_n to_o his_o church_n to_o put_v either_o the_o one_o or_o the_o other_o into_o execution_n and_o second_o that_o man_n conscience_n be_v according_o take_v therewith_o so_o as_o to_o subject_v themselves_o whether_o unto_o the_o one_o way_n or_o the_o other_o for_o suppose_v that_o other_o principle_n of_o a_o authoritative_a power_n in_o the_o great_a part_n of_o church_n combine_v to_o excommunicate_v other_o church_n etc._n etc._n to_o be_v the_o ordinance_n of_o god_n yet_o unless_o it_o do_v take_v hold_v of_o man_n conscience_n and_o be_v receive_v among_o all_o church_n the_o offend_a church_n will_v state_n all_o such_o excommunication_n as_o much_o as_o they_o may_v be_v suppose_v to_o do_v our_o way_n of_o protestation_n and_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n on_o the_o other_o side_n let_v this_o way_n of_o we_o be_v but_o as_o strong_o entertain_v as_o that_o which_o be_v the_o way_n and_o command_v of_o christ_n and_o upon_o all_o occasion_n be_v heedful_o put_v in_o execution_n it_o will_v awe_v man_n conscience_n as_o much_o and_o produce_v the_o same_o effect_n and_o if_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v do_v but_o assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o other_o church_n denounce_v this_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o they_o judge_v meet_v and_o as_o they_o will_v the_o sentence_n of_o church_n excommunicate_v other_o church_n in_o such_o case_n upon_o their_o own_o particular_a judgement_n of_o the_o cause_n then_o without_o all_o controversy_n this_o our_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o their_o other_o can_v be_v suppose_v to_o be_v and_o we_o be_v sure_a more_o brotherly_a and_o morâ—…_n suit_v to_o that_o liberty_n and_o equality_n christ_n have_v endow_v his_o church_n with_o but_o without_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n their_o way_n of_o proceed_v will_v be_v as_o ineffectual_a as_o we_o and_o more_o liable_a to_o contempt_n by_o how_o much_o it_o be_v pretend_v to_o be_v more_o authoritative_a and_o to_o inflict_v a_o more_o dreadful_a punishment_n which_o carnal_a spirit_n be_v seldom_o sensible_a of_o this_o for_o our_o judgement_n and_o for_o a_o real_a evidence_n and_o demonstration_n both_o that_o this_o be_v then_o our_o judgement_n as_o likewise_o for_o a_o instance_n of_o the_o effectual_a success_n of_o such_o a_o course_n hold_v by_o church_n in_o such_o case_n our_o own_o practice_n and_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n thereon_o may_v plead_v and_o testify_v for_o we_o to_o all_o the_o world_n the_o manage_n of_o this_o transaction_n in_o brief_n be_v this_o that_o church_n which_o with_o other_o be_v most_o scandalize_v do_v by_o letter_n declare_v their_o offence_n require_v of_o the_o church_n suppose_v to_o be_v offend_v in_o the_o name_n and_o for_o the_o vindication_n of_o the_o honour_n of_o christ_n and_o the_o relieve_v the_o party_n wrong_v to_o yield_v a_o full_a and_o public_a hear_n before_o all_o the_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n or_o any_o other_o whosoever_o offend_v of_o what_o they_o can_v give_v in_o charge_n against_o their_o proceed_n in_o that_o deposition_n of_o their_o minister_n and_o to_o subject_n themselves_o to_o a_o open_a trial_n and_o review_v of_o all_o those_o forepast_a carriage_n that_o concern_v that_o particular_a which_o they_o most_o cheerful_o and_o ready_o according_a to_o the_o forementioned_a principle_n submit_v unto_o in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v they_o thereunto_o and_o according_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n offend_v with_o other_o two_o gentleman_n of_o much_o worth_n wisdom_n and_o piety_n member_n thereof_o be_v send_v as_o messenger_n from_o that_o church_n and_o at_o the_o introduction_n and_o entrance_v into_o that_o solemn_a assembly_n the_o solemnity_n of_o which_o have_v leave_v as_o deep_a a_o impression_n upon_o our_o heart_n of_o christ_n dreadful_a presence_n as_o ever_o any_o we_o have_v be_v present_a at_o it_o be_v open_o and_o public_o process_v in_o a_o speech_n that_o be_v the_o preface_n to_o that_o discussion_n to_o this_o effect_n that_o it_o be_v the_o most_o to_o be_v abhor_v maxim_n that_o any_o religion_n have_v ever_o make_v profession_n of_o and_o therefore_o of_o all_o other_o the_o most_o contradictory_n and_o dishonourable_a unto_o that_o of_o christianity_n that_o a_o single_a and_o particular_a society_n of_o man_n profess_v the_o name_n of_o christ_n and_o pretend_v to_o be_v endow_v with_o a_o power_n from_o christ_n to_o judge_v they_o that_o be_v of_o the_o same_o body_n and_o society_n within_o themselves_o shall_v further_o arrogate_v unto_o themselves_o a_o exemption_n from_o give_v account_n or_o be_v censurable_a by_o any_o other_o either_o christian_a magistrate_n above_o they_o or_o neighbour_n church_n about_o they_o so_o far_o be_v our_o judgement_n from_o that_o independent_a liberty_n that_o be_v impute_v to_o we_o then_o when_o we_o have_v least_o dependency_n on_o this_o kingdom_n or_o so_o much_o as_o hope_n ever_o to_o abide_v therein_o in_o peace_n and_o for_o the_o issue_n and_o success_n of_o this_o agitation_n after_o there_o have_v be_v for_o many_o day_n as_o judiciary_n and_o full_a a_o charge_n trial_n and_o deposition_n of_o witness_n open_o afore_o all_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n as_o can_v be_v expect_v in_o any_o court_n where_o authority_n enjoin_v it_o that_o church_n which_o have_v offend_v do_v as_o public_o acknowledge_v their_o sinful_a aberration_n in_o it_o restore_v their_o minister_n to_o his_o place_n again_o and_o order_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o afore_o god_n and_o man_n for_o their_o sinful_a carriage_n in_o it_o and_o the_o party_n also_o which_o have_v be_v depose_v do_v acknowledge_v to_o that_o church_n wherein_o he_o have_v likewise_o sin_v in_o this_o part_n of_o your_o apology_n be_v contain_v the_o four_o and_o five_o of_o those_o five_o forementioned_a head_n unto_o which_o i_o refer_v all_o i_o shall_v answer_v to_o what_o you_o say_v upon_o your_o three_o and_o last_o instance_n about_o the_o government_n and_o discipline_n in_o the_o church_n the_o scope_n of_o which_o four_o head_n be_v to_o answer_v and_o take_v off_o a_o common_a objection_n bring_v against_o your_o way_n the_o strength_n of_o which_o answer_n be_v make_v up_o of_o those_o part_n and_o stand_v in_o these_o particular_n first_o in_o lay_v down_o your_o own_o principle_n which_o you_o hold_v in_o such_o a_o case_n second_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o those_o principle_n occasion_v upon_o a_o offence_n commit_v in_o one_o of_o your_o church_n which_o story_n you_o brief_o relate_v three_o the_o success_n and_o effectualness_n of_o your_o practice_n according_a to_o your_o principle_n illustrate_v by_o a_o instance_n now_o for_o that_o common_a
therefore_o where_o any_o one_o repâ—…nts_n the_o church_n receive_v he_o so_o that_o in_o substitute_v the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o give_v a_o great_a deal_n more_o civil_a power_n for_o want_n of_o spiritual_a to_o make_v it_o as_o available_a for_o those_o spiritual_a end_n of_o the_o church_n be_v to_o leave_v the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n and_o to_o take_v up_o other_o and_o i_o will_v desire_v you_o to_o answer_v i_o whether_o the_o proper_a remedy_n and_o mean_n appoint_v for_o such_o end_n and_o use_n or_o the_o improper_a remedy_n nay_o remedy_n appoint_v and_o intend_v main_o for_o other_o end_n be_v most_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o accomplish_v those_o end_n as_o also_o whether_o a_o part_n of_o a_o proper_a remedy_n be_v assist_v and_o back_v with_o a_o great_a proportion_n of_o a_o remedy_n of_o another_o nature_n and_o kind_n can_v be_v as_o effectual_a as_o the_o whole_a remedy_n and_o mean_n as_o for_o instance_n whether_o a_o little_a grace_n assist_v by_o civility_n and_o fairness_n of_o nature_n will_v do_v as_o much_o to_o overcome_v lust_n and_o destroy_v the_o flesh_n as_o the_o high_a degree_n of_o grace_n that_o saint_n may_v attain_v unto_o and_o whether_o a_o little_a spiritual_a knowledge_n second_v with_o a_o great_a deal_n of_o common_a and_o outward_a ecclesiast_n knowledge_n be_v as_o available_a for_o a_o christian_a conversation_n as_o great_a measure_n of_o spiritual_a knowledge_n though_o a_o man_n have_v but_o a_o little_a knowledge_n in_o philosophy_n physic_n law_n etc._n etc._n but_o more_o particular_o to_o let_v you_o see_v that_o your_o recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n and_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o that_o of_o excommunication_n and_o presbyterial_a government_n i_o shall_v commend_v to_o your_o consideration_n these_o eight_o follow_v particular_n first_o there_o may_v be_v many_o sin_n and_o error_n which_o the_o christian_a magistrate_n meddle_v not_o with_o be_v not_o matter_n of_o his_o cognisance_n if_o you_o will_v have_v recourse_n to_o he_o or_o if_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v pronounce_v against_o a_o church_n because_o of_o impenitency_n in_o they_o he_o have_v nothing_o to_o do_v to_o assist_v and_o back_o it_o there_o be_v no_o law_n for_o such_o thing_n which_o yet_o be_v spiritual_a evil_n and_o prejudicial_a to_o the_o soul_n of_o man_n shall_v be_v deal_v with_o to_o recover_v man_n out_o of_o they_o learned_a zanchius_n in_o his_o difference_n that_o he_o give_v between_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o the_o magistrate_n censure_n observe_v this_o for_o a_o special_a one_o there_o be_v many_o wickedness_n against_o which_o the_o magistrate_n true_o christian_n do_v not_o use_v to_o proceed_v neither_o be_v bind_v by_o his_o law_n as_o for_o instance_n private_a fall_n out_o hatred_n &c_n &c_n as_o also_o many_o evil_a manner_n both_o domestical_a and_o public_a which_o do_v not_o disturb_v the_o public_a peace_n or_o the_o public_a good_a but_o the_o church_n ought_v not_o to_o bare_a these_o but_o to_o correct_v they_o according_a to_o christ_n institution_n now_o what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n here_o your_o recourse_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n with_o the_o magistrate_n back_v non-communion_n fail_v you_o and_o conduce_v nothing_o at_o all_o second_o in_o case_n the_o magistrate_n be_v of_o those_o church_n and_o chief_a in_o those_o sin_n and_o miscarriage_n for_o which_o non-communion_n be_v denounce_v against_o those_o church_n as_o may_v easy_o fall_v out_o how_o will_v you_o have_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n now_o back_v and_o assist_v both_o those_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n member_n of_o they_o shall_v have_v nothing_o to_o back_o non-communion_n to_o make_v it_o equivalent_a to_o excommunication_n nay_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o who_o bring_v in_o more_o of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o supply_v the_o want_n of_o excommunication_n where_o the_o particular_a church_n will_v not_o and_o the_o class_n may_v not_o what_o shall_v be_v do_v with_o the_o magistrate_n offend_v what_o mean_n have_v god_n leave_v for_o the_o recovery_n of_o they_o you_o can_v imagine_v they_o will_v make_v use_n of_o their_o power_n against_o themselves_o now_o if_o they_o may_v not_o have_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o censure_n as_o of_o excommunication_n this_o principle_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n fall_v short_a here_o whereas_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n there_o be_v a_o remedy_n and_o redress_v for_o all_o and_o certain_o god_n way_n of_o govern_v his_o church_n provide_v for_o all_o whereas_o you_o fall_v short_a 3._o what_o if_o upon_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n denounce_v against_o a_o church_n or_o church_n the_o magistrate_n judge_v otherwise_o and_o hold_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n unjust_a and_o will_v not_o assist_v it_o which_o may_v ordinary_o fall_v out_o what_o effectual_a mean_n have_v the_o offend_a church_n of_o be_v reduce_v now_o by_o virtue_n of_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o what_o must_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n may_v the_o magistrate_n revoke_v that_o sentence_n of_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o declare_v it_o null_a and_o cause_v the_o church_n who_o pass_v the_o sentence_n to_o recall_v it_o and_o to_o continue_v their_o communion_n and_o suppose_v those_o church_n will_v not_o revoke_v it_o but_o stand_v to_o their_o act_n what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n who_o must_v judge_v now_o between_o these_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n may_v the_o magistrate_n now_o by_o his_o power_n which_o you_o give_v he_o in_o ecclesiastical_n instead_o of_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o a_o church_n miscarry_v as_o the_o church_n suppose_v now_o turn_v his_o power_n against_o the_o church_n for_o denounce_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n vojust_o as_o the_o magistrate_n judge_v and_o not_o only_o declare_v it_o void_a but_o punish_v this_o church_n or_o church_n for_o denounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o declare_v and_o protest_v to_o all_o other_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a and_o what_o if_o all_o the_o church_n protest_v to_o will_v continue_v to_o renounce_v communion_n with_o the_o church_n censure_v with_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n notwithstanding_o the_o magistrate_n refuse_v to_o assist_v that_o sentence_n nay_o though_o he_o declare_v it_o void_a or_o what_o if_o upon_o the_o magistrate_n declaration_n some_o of_o the_o church_n give_v the_o righ-hand_n of_o fellowship_n again_o but_o other_o will_v not_o what_o must_v the_o magistrate_n or_o the_o church_n do_v in_o these_o case_n and_o the_o like_a consider_v well_o of_o it_o whether_o this_o effectual_a way_n of_o you_o the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n instead_o of_o a_o powerful_a mean_n to_o relieve_v injure_a person_n or_o reduce_v church_n will_v not_o prove_v a_o mean_n of_o great_a difference_n and_o division_n as_o well_o between_o the_o church_n and_o the_o magistrate_n as_o between_o the_o church_n themselves_o 4._o must_v the_o magistrate_n assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o the_o church_n or_o church_n offend_v and_o persist_v therein_o upon_o the_o come_n of_o it_o to_o he_o and_o so_o punish_v it_o according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n as_o he_o judge_n meet_v without_o first_o hear_v what_o the_o church_n can_v say_v for_o itself_o or_o must_v he_o first_o hear_v they_o both_o and_o in_o case_n more_o church_n mutual_o renounce_v communion_n with_o one_o another_o and_o protest_v against_o each_o other_o with_o other_o particular_n instance_a in_o about_o the_o remedy_n of_o non-communion_n under_o the_o four_o general_a head_n what_o shall_v he_o do_v in_o these_o case_n must_v he_o hear_v all_o 5._o what_o magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n do_v you_o mean_v to_o who_o in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n you_o will_v have_v recourse_n unto_o and_o that_o must_v assist_v and_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v you_o mean_v the_o supreme_a and_o chief_a magistrate_n the_o high_a power_n only_o or_o all_o inferior_a magistrate_n in_o their_o several_a station_n and_o division_n where_o these_o thing_n fall_v out_o as_o major_n of_o city_n and_o town_n justice_n of_o peace_n and_o such_o magistrate_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v the_o christian_n protestant_n magistrate_n or_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_n popish_a arrian_n or_o do_v you_o mean_v by_o the_o magistrate_n power_n that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n erect_v in_o every_o division_n of_o the_o county_n to_o hear_v the_o difference_n that_o fall_v out_o between_o church_n offend_v one_o with_o another_o etc._n etc._n or_o what_o do_v you_o mean_v if_o you_o understand_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n
only_o and_o the_o high_a power_n can_v they_o always_o hear_v or_o attend_v unto_o through_o the_o many_o great_a business_n of_o state_n affair_n all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n that_o both_o in_o particular_a church_n and_o between_o church_n will_v fall_v out_o in_o a_o kingdom_n or_o nation_n in_o this_o way_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n against_o one_o another_o especial_o in_o independent_a church_n where_o people_n make_v church_n and_o minister_n in_o that_o way_n they_o do_v and_o have_v no_o fix_a rule_n nor_o certain_a way_n i_o warrant_v the_o supreme_a magistrate_n and_o high_a power_n king_n and_o parliament_n shall_v have_v something_o to_o do_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o to_o hear_v all_o cause_n and_o difference_n but_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o inferior_n also_o major_n bailiff_n etc._n etc._n i_o represent_v it_o to_o you_o what_o fit_a judge_n most_o of_o they_o be_v to_o judge_v and_o determine_v of_o such_o difficult_a ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o heresy_n schism_n scandal_n etc._n etc._n which_o fall_v out_o among_o the_o minister_n of_o church_n and_o between_o church_n themselves_o again_o if_o you_o understand_v the_o magistrate_n indefinite_o and_o absolute_o any_o magistrate_n though_o heathen_a popish_a arrian_n as_o mr_n robinson_n do_v in_o his_o apology_n and_o i_o find_v it_o in_o your_o manuscript_n and_o principle_n that_o you_o take_v it_o so_o judge_v then_o in_o yourselves_o if_o the_o church_n have_v not_o remedy_n among_o themselves_o how_o fit_a be_v they_o who_o understand_v not_o christian_a religion_n nor_o the_o doctrine_n according_a to_o godliness_n to_o judge_v of_o the_o great_a difference_n between_o church_n and_o to_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n if_o the_o apostle_n paul_n reprove_v the_o corinthian_n so_o in_o 1_o cor._n 6_o 1_o 2_o 3_o 4_o 5_o 6_o 7._o for_o cariy_a matter_n from_o the_o church_n even_o the_o small_a matter_n the_o thing_n that_o pertain_v to_o this_o life_n unto_o unbeliever_n how_o will_v he_o blame_v the_o carry_n of_o thing_n spiritual_a and_o ecclesiastical_a unto_o heathen_a from_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n or_o do_v you_o understand_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n to_o appeal_v unto_o etc._n etc._n then_o there_o must_v be_v certain_a law_n and_o rule_n agree_v upon_o as_o for_o particular_a church_n so_o between_o the_o church_n according_a to_o which_o they_o must_v proceed_v to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o protestation_n etc._n etc._n which_o yet_o you_o practise_v not_o now_o the_o many_o inconvenience_n that_o will_v come_v of_o such_o court_v you_o may_v easy_o foresee_v so_o that_o this_o be_v not_o like_a to_o be_v a_o effectual_a remedy_n 6._o what_o shall_v be_v do_v in_o case_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n at_o all_o to_o take_v any_o notice_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n but_o leave_v church_n to_o themselves_o in_o that_o as_o it_o be_v with_o you_o in_o holland_n there_o be_v no_o magistrate_n meddle_v with_o the_o government_n and_o order_n of_o your_o church_n nor_o none_o to_o have_v recourse_n unto_o or_o to_o back_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n you_o be_v in_o a_o place_n and_o state_n where_o no_o outward_a violence_n or_o any_o other_o external_a authority_n either_o civil_a or_o ecclesiastical_a will_v have_v enforce_v you_o what_o shall_v in_o this_o case_n supply_v the_o defect_n of_o excommunication_n and_o of_o a_o ecclesiastical_a authoritative_a power_n have_v not_o the_o wisdom_n of_o christ_n provide_v remedy_n in_o the_o church_n for_o all_o the_o internal_a necessity_n of_o the_o church_n and_o constitute_v it_o a_o perfect_a body_n within_o itself_o 7._o whether_o can_v it_o be_v rational_o and_o probable_o think_v that_o in_o a_o ordinary_a way_n the_o have_v recourse_n unto_o the_o magistrate_n though_o orthodox_n and_o the_o submit_v to_o his_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n with_o his_o back_n the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n in_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n in_o case_n of_o sin_n error_n difference_n that_o arise_v in_o church_n shall_v be_v as_o effectual_a and_o sufficient_a a_o remedy_n as_o the_o way_n of_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v their_o authority_n and_o power_n of_o another_o nature_n will_v be_v as_o good_a as_o the_o authoritative_a presbyterial_a government_n in_o all_o the_o subordination_n and_o proceed_n of_o it_o now_o that_o it_o be_v not_o probable_a it_o shall_v be_v or_o that_o it_o shall_v serve_v in_o stead_n of_o synod_n and_o class_n take_v these_o probable_a and_o rational_a ground_n 1._o all_o wanton_a wit_n and_o erroneous_a spirit_n all_o your_o sectary_n and_o novelist_n be_v rather_o for_o this_o way_n then_o for_o synod_n and_o class_n though_o most_o of_o they_o will_v have_v neither_o to_o meddle_v at_o all_o in_o matter_n of_o religion_n as_o the_o socinian_o anabaptist_n etc._n etc._n thus_o the_o arminian_n be_v against_o class_n and_o synod_n and_o all_o for_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n and_o it_o be_v their_o chief_a engine_n by_o which_o in_o those_o sad_a day_n of_o the_o netherlands_o they_o increase_v their_o party_n and_o come_v to_o such_o a_o height_n sectary_n hope_v that_o if_o they_o can_v decline_v the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o shall_v wat_fw-mi by_o flattery_n and_o what_o by_o delay_n through_o other_o great_a business_n of_o state_n and_o what_o by_o sophism_n and_o fallacy_n and_o what_o from_o principle_n of_o policy_n in_o many_o statesman_n and_o what_o by_o friend_n etc._n etc._n effect_n that_o which_o they_o have_v no_o hope_n at_o all_o by_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o know_v the_o presbytery_n and_o synod_n be_v able_a to_o discover_v their_o fallacy_n answer_v their_o argument_n will_v mind_v those_o business_n whole_o be_v not_o to_o be_v wrought_v upon_o by_o state_n principle_n etc._n etc._n now_o if_o in_o experience_n and_o reason_n this_o way_n be_v as_o powerful_a to_o reduce_v a_o church_n or_o church_n from_o schism_n and_o heresy_n they_o will_v never_o be_v so_o much_o for_o this_o way_n rather_o than_o presbytery_n 2._o natural_a reason_n dictate_v that_o they_o be_v best_a able_a and_o fit_a to_o judge_v and_o resolve_v of_o thing_n who_o do_v above_o other_o give_v themselves_o to_o the_o study_n and_o profession_n of_o those_o thing_n as_o physician_n can_v best_o judge_v of_o wholesome_a meat_n and_o disease_n and_o lawyer_n of_o the_o law_n and_o difference_n arise_v in_o they_o a_o counsel_n of_o war_n of_o difficult_a case_n and_o point_n in_o war_n and_o therefore_o in_o thing_n that_o belong_v to_o the_o spiritual_a good_a of_o the_o soul_n and_o the_o church_n the_o minister_n of_o the_o church_n be_v most_o likely_a to_o resolve_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n can_v it_o ordinary_o be_v expect_v that_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o opinion_n in_o matter_n of_o schism_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o worthiness_n and_o ability_n of_o minister_n and_o in_o many_o case_n that_o arise_v be_v able_a to_o judge_v and_o determine_v matter_n as_o the_o minister_n and_o pastor_n of_o the_o church_n 3._o those_o who_o have_v most_o time_n and_o leisure_n to_o attend_v a_o work_n and_o business_n to_o sift_v into_o it_o to_o hear_v all_o that_o can_v be_v say_v and_o can_v mind_v it_o they_o be_v able_a and_o understand_a be_v likely_a to_o determine_v best_a and_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o good_a end_n we_o see_v in_o experience_n that_o able_a and_o honest_a man_n through_o multitude_n of_o business_n delay_v long_o slubber_v over_o business_n and_o can_v do_v thing_n so_o effectual_o as_o they_o ought_v and_o seldom_o prove_v good_a arbitratour_n in_o difficult_a intricate_a case_n now_o magistrate_n through_o many_o great_a and_o necessary_a business_n of_o state_n have_v large_a dominion_n can_v so_o well_o attend_v as_o the_o class_n and_o synod_n to_o hear_v and_o examine_v all_o the_o difference_n scandal_n schism_n etc._n etc._n that_o do_v and_o may_v arise_v both_o in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n especial_o as_o will_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o independent_a way_n and_o particular_o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n non-communion_n and_o mutual_a protestation_n but_o matter_n will_v be_v delay_v and_o neglect_v or_o escape_v whole_o or_o be_v huddle_v up_o 4._o to_o these_o i_o may_v add_v as_o follow_v that_o the_o magistrate_n through_o his_o just_a greatness_n will_v not_o know_v the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o minister_n &_o people_n nor_o of_o other_o matter_n so_o well_o as_o the_o minister_n who_o live_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o one_o another_o frequent_o neither_o will_v there_o be_v that_o easiness_n of_o access_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o great_a person_n as_o
not_o what_o though_o you_o do_v not_o leave_v they_o as_o antichristian_a babilonish_a as_o false_a and_o untrue_a yet_o if_o you_o leave_v such_o church_n because_o impure_a defective_a under_o bondage_n not_o of_o so_o good_a a_o constitution_n in_o this_o you_o condemn_v they_o and_o so_o be_v guilty_a of_o schism_n i_o ask_v of_o you_o if_o the_o member_n of_o some_o of_o your_o church_n shall_v upon_o ground_n not_o because_o you_o be_v false_a church_n and_o false_a minister_n but_o because_o you_o be_v not_o to_o pure_a as_o some_o other_o nor_o as_o they_o can_v set_v up_o a_o church_n as_o for_o instance_n because_o wicked_a man_n be_v admit_v to_o prayer_n among_o you_o or_o because_o the_o ordinance_n of_o hymn_n be_v not_o yet_o settle_v in_o all_o your_o church_n etc._n etc._n forsake_v and_o leave_v your_o assembly_n and_o yet_o shall_v open_o profess_v they_o do_v not_o condemn_v your_o church_n as_o no_o church_n but_o only_o join_v to_o church_n of_o a_o pure_a constitution_n or_o set_v up_o a_o new_a church_n as_o mr_n simpson_n do_v whether_o be_v this_o a_o schism_n and_o separation_n do_v you_o not_o hold_v this_o unlawful_a especial_o this_o be_v without_o your_o consent_n nay_o against_o they_o as_o not_o be_v satisfy_v in_o the_o reason_n and_o cause_n of_o such_o a_o departure_n now_o if_o it_o be_v schism_n and_o separation_n in_o some_o of_o your_o member_n pray_v free_a yourselves_o and_o in_o your_o reply_n wash_v your_o church_n from_o this_o offence_n in_o withdraw_v from_o we_o and_o answer_v that_o axiom_n that_o magis_fw-la &_o minus_fw-la non_fw-la variant_n speciem_fw-la and_o what_o ever_o you_o can_v say_v for_o your_o depart_n from_o we_o to_o enjoy_v further_a degree_n of_o purity_n or_o because_o our_o church_n be_v defective_a in_o some_o ordinance_n etc._n etc._n that_o your_o member_n may_v for_o themselves_o for_o according_a to_o your_o own_o confession_n in_o apology_n page_n 30._o you_o differ_v little_a from_o we_o and_o the_o reform_a church_n yea_o far_o less_o than_o the_o anabaptist_n or_o some_o sort_n of_o brownist_n do_v from_o you_o now_o than_o i_o put_v this_o dilemma_n to_o you_o whether_o be_v it_o schism_n in_o your_o member_n or_o not_o if_o it_o be_v schism_n in_o they_o and_o they_o may_v not_o leave_v your_o church_n than_o it_o be_v schism_n in_o you_o and_o you_o may_v not_o forsake_v we_o but_o if_o it_o be_v no_o schism_n in_o they_o but_o they_o may_v do_v so_o member_n may_v still_o go_v from_o one_o pure_a church_n to_o a_o pure_a according_a to_o their_o new_a light_n then_o satisfy_v i_o where_o you_o will_v stay_v and_o make_v a_o stand_n and_o what_o be_v schism_n and_o separation_n and_o whether_o a_o great_a gap_n and_o wide_a door_n be_v not_o leave_v open_a for_o schism_n upon_o schism_n and_o separation_n upon_o separation_n from_o your_o church_n to_o the_o brownist_n and_o from_o the_o brownist_n to_o the_o anabaptist_n and_o so_o in_o infinitum_fw-la and_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o though_o you_o who_o be_v scholar_n have_v find_v out_o these_o distinction_n about_o our_o church_n and_o minister_n whereby_o you_o think_v you_o salve_v all_o and_o so_o make_v account_v you_o be_v not_o guilty_a of_o schism_n as_o the_o learned_a papist_n have_v distinction_n about_o image_n worship_n etc._n etc._n say_v they_o worship_v not_o the_o image_n but_o the_o person_n in_o the_o image_n etc._n etc._n though_o the_o people_n who_o do_v not_o so_o well_o understand_v nor_o can_v always_o remember_v such_o distinction_n worship_v the_o very_a image_n and_o that_o with_o the_o same_o worship_n as_o they_o do_v god_n so_o the_o people_n who_o by_o your_o counsel_n and_o example_n have_v forsake_v our_o church_n they_o leave_v our_o church_n and_o minister_n as_o not_o true_a they_o condemn_v our_o church_n and_o minister_n and_o wonder_v at_o those_o passage_n in_o your_o apology_n page_n 6._o and_o say_v they_o take_v you_o otherwise_o and_o so_o they_o become_v guilty_a of_o schism_n and_o separation_n without_o such_o distinction_n though_o you_o with_o distinction_n for_o that_o title_n of_o independency_n affix_v unto_o you_o as_o your_o claim_n it_o be_v well_o you_o call_v it_o a_o proud_a and_o insolent_a title_n have_v i_o style_v it_o so_o in_o my_o reason_n against_o independent_a government_n it_o will_v have_v be_v count_v by_o your_o side_n a_o revile_v of_o the_o way_n of_o god_n and_o a_o cast_v great_a reproach_n upon_o christ_n government_n but_o i_o shall_v give_v you_o and_o the_o reader_n a_o good_a account_n for_o that_o title_n affix_v unto_o the_o churchway_n and_o communion_n that_o you_o be_v of_o and_o if_o it_o be_v offensive_a you_o must_v blame_v yourselves_o and_o your_o own_o party_n and_o not_o i_o this_o independency_n and_o independent_a government_n be_v a_o name_n of_o your_o own_o give_v and_o sure_a i_o and_o other_o may_v lawful_o call_v the_o child_n by_o the_o name_n the_o father_n and_o friend_n give_v it_o to_o speak_v nothing_o of_o the_o name_n of_o independent_a government_n give_v to_o particular_a congregation_n in_o many_o book_n of_o the_o total_a separatist_n maintain_v it_o formal_o in_o those_o word_n it_o will_v be_v find_v in_o many_o print_a book_n and_o manuscript_n write_v by_o many_o man_n of_o your_o way_n and_o communion_n namely_o of_o the_o middle_a way_n as_o you_o call_v it_o who_o own_o and_o call_v the_o government_n of_o particular_a congregation_n independent_a and_o reason_n for_o it_o under_o that_o name_n among_o other_o you_o shall_v find_v it_o in_o these_o book_n protestation_n protest_v mr_n davenports_n profession_n of_o his_o faith_n zion_n prerogative_n royal_a 103_o a_o discourse_n open_v the_o nature_n of_o episcopacy_n the_o answer_n from_o new-england_n to_o mr_n herles_a book_n against_o independency_n in_o 59_o christ_n upon_o his_o throne_n and_o in_o manuscript_n not_o a_o few_o particular_o in_o a_o manuscript_n entitle_v a_o treatise_n about_o a_o church_n go_v under_o one_o of_o your_o name_n speak_v often_o of_o independent_a power_n and_o independent_a government_n beside_o independent_a government_n have_v be_v preach_v for_o at_o margret_n church_n in_o westminster_n and_o the_o city_n of_o london_n in_o those_o word_n so_o that_o i_o wonder_v how_o you_o dare_v make_v such_o a_o flourish_n for_o my_o part_n i_o shall_v never_o have_v invent_v the_o name_n neither_o will_v it_o have_v ever_o enter_v into_o my_o mind_n but_o that_o it_o be_v common_a in_o the_o book_n manuscript_n and_o mouth_n of_o man_n of_o your_o way_n and_o this_o have_v be_v take_v so_o for_o grant_v that_o not_o i_o alone_o who_o may_v more_o easy_o have_v mistake_v write_v against_o the_o government_n of_o your_o congregation_n under_o that_o name_n but_o the_o learned_a and_o reverend_a divine_n of_o scotland_n write_v against_o it_o under_o that_o name_n use_v those_o term_n and_o phrase_n often_o and_o the_o learned_a divine_n of_o holland_n particular_o voctius_n 66._o and_o a_o learned_a and_o ingenious_a divine_a of_o our_o own_o too_o write_v against_o your_o government_n under_o the_o title_n of_o independency_n who_o book_n contain_v many_o passage_n particular_o refer_v to_o you_o the_o apologist_n and_o so_o â—_o mr_n channel_n who_o candid_o testify_v for_o you_o even_o when_o he_o will_v free_v you_o from_o be_v call_v brownist_n yet_o say_v you_o be_v common_o call_v the_o independent_a minister_n and_o do_v by_o way_n of_o distinction_n from_o the_o reform_a church_n call_v your_o congregation_n independent_a but_o yet_o further_o to_o fasten_v on_o you_o as_o you_o be_v please_v to_o style_v it_o that_o proud_a and_o insolent_a title_n of_o independency_n however_o that_o you_o disclaim_v the_o title_n here_o and_o in_o other_o page_n 14_o 21_o yet_o you_o acknowledge_v the_o thing_n abundant_o in_o the_o book_n namely_o a_o full_a and_o entire_a power_n complete_a within_o yourselves_o until_o you_o be_v challenge_v to_o err_v gross_o and_o then_o when_o you_o be_v challenge_v to_o err_v gross_o and_o upon_o examination_n and_o deposition_n it_o be_v full_o prove_v yet_o you_o will_v not_o subject_a to_o any_o authoritative_a ecclesiastical_a power_n out_o of_o the_o particular_a congregation_n this_o be_v the_o only_a thing_n in_o your_o apology_n large_o and_o with_o any_o seem_a strength_n insist_v upon_o and_o for_o the_o exemption_n from_o that_o you_o have_v find_v out_o the_o device_n of_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n and_o tell_v we_o your_o solemn_a practice_n upon_o it_o with_o the_o success_n of_o it_o now_o what_o else_o have_v be_v fasten_v on_o you_o as_o your_o claim_n by_o they_o who_o have_v write_v against_o your_o way_n but_o this_o do_v any_o of_o the_o divine_n commend_v by_o you_o or_o do_v i_o in_o my_o reason_n against_o your_o government_n
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state_n and_o consider_v the_o small_a difference_n between_o the_o apologist_n and_o the_o presbyterian_o as_o themselves_o say_v and_o that_o they_o can_v for_o a_o need_v come_v to_o our_o church_n and_o partake_v in_o the_o sacrament_n hold_v communion_n with_o we_o as_o the_o church_n 6._o of_o christ_n why_o shall_v they_o have_v different_a church_n and_o government_n allow_v the_o parliament_n upon_o so_o small_a a_o ground_n and_o needless_a a_o cause_n have_v the_o less_o cause_n to_o give_v way_n to_o a_o toleration_n which_o will_v certain_o produce_v so_o great_a mischief_n and_o evil_n 7._o independency_n and_o the_o church_n way_n beside_o the_o evil_a of_o it_o in_o its_o self_n consider_v as_o be_v a_o schism_n in_o forsake_v the_o reform_a reason_n church_n and_o constitute_v new_a the_o way_n of_o constitute_a church_n by_o the_o people_n the_o way_n of_o make_v their_o minister_n the_o refuse_v of_o believer_n and_o their_o child_n to_o the_o sacrament_n
not_o believe_v aâ—…y_a report_n of_o this_o kind_n in_o the_o book_n that_o iâ—…_n come_v forth_o mean_v the_o antapology_n until_o the_o author_n of_o they_o will_v appear_v and_o bring_v their_o witness_n to_o a_o fair_a hear_v in_o any_o lawful_a though_o the_o strict_a â—…licatorie_a etc._n etc._n and_o because_o he_o say_v in_o what_o he_o be_v guilty_a before_o man_n he_o will_v confess_v ingenious_o that_o the_o reader_n may_v not_o beâ—…uded_v to_o believe_v what_o be_v say_v by_o he_o there_o and_o by_o that_o be_v prepossess_v against_o the_o truth_n of_o the_o antapology_n i_o accept_v of_o his_o motion_n and_o request_n and_o if_o he_o will_v be_v please_v to_o procure_v any_o lawful_a though_o the_o strict_a judicatorie_a yea_o the_o high_a i_o be_o ready_a for_o so_o much_o as_o concern_v he_o to_o appear_v and_o bring_v my_o witness_n to_o a_o fair_a hear_n and_o if_o the_o judicature_n will_v give_v time_n and_o grant_v warrant_n to_o bring_v in_o the_o witness_n 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i_o feign_v nothing_o nor_o witting_o misreport_n any_o thing_n no_o not_o in_o the_o least_o circumstance_n neither_o have_v i_o take_v up_o report_n light_o but_o what_o ever_o i_o affirm_v or_o assert_v in_o this_o answer_n i_o either_o have_v it_o from_o their_o own_o mouth_n or_o can_v show_v it_o in_o their_o own_o letter_n or_o in_o other_o manuscript_n or_o in_o some_o print_a book_n of_o man_n of_o their_o way_n and_o communion_n or_o else_o have_v receive_v it_o from_o credible_a person_n many_o of_o they_o ear_n witness_n and_o eye-witness_n upon_o the_o place_n all_o which_o witness_n be_v either_o learned_a godly_a judicious_a minister_n or_o else_o godly_a christian_n some_o their_o friend_n and_o familiar_n who_o have_v be_v among_o they_o and_o converse_v with_o they_o both_o in_o holland_n and_o england_n and_o i_o appeal_v to_o many_o of_o my_o reverend_a brethren_n in_o the_o ministry_n and_o to_o many_o godly_a christian_n and_o to_o the_o conscience_n of_o the_o 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not_o direct_v in_o particular_a against_o you_o so_o it_o reflect_v in_o the_o word_n and_o sense_n upon_o many_o other_o rather_o then_o yourselves_o which_o letter_n how_o it_o be_v accept_v of_o by_o the_o assembly_n and_o what_o speech_n and_o motion_n be_v upon_o it_o how_o to_o remedy_n and_o prevent_v the_o evil_n represent_v and_o especial_o that_o of_o gather_a church_n you_o better_o know_v then_o i._n but_o soon_o after_o some_o consideration_n be_v put_v forth_o by_o many_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n to_o dissuade_v from_o gather_v church_n to_o which_o consideration_n your_o hand_n be_v subscribe_v upon_o what_o reason_n you_o comply_v in_o that_o and_o whether_o you_o can_v not_o well_o avoid_v it_o without_o great_a prejudice_n to_o your_o cause_n you_o know_v best_a and_o now_o whether_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n be_v not_o first_o hasten_v to_o follow_v upon_o these_o consideration_n to_o counterbalance_n that_o act_n of_o you_o against_o further_a 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bridge_n inform_v i_o and_o of_o the_o exercise_v of_o prophecy_n in_o mr_n sympson_n church_n at_o rotterdam_n as_o well_o as_o at_o arnheim_n i_o can_v out_o of_o manuscript_n produce_v how_o argument_n be_v frame_v to_o draw_v away_o people_n from_o our_o church_n upon_o this_o ground_n as_o be_v defective_a in_o some_o ordinance_n namely_o prophesy_v and_o beside_o prophesy_v i_o propound_v it_o to_o you_o whether_o some_o of_o you_o have_v not_o hold_v out_o some_o other_o public_a worship_n than_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v namely_o hymn_n and_o anoint_v the_o sick_a member_n of_o the_o church_n with_o oil_n as_o also_o whether_o a_o little_a before_o your_o come_n over_o into_o england_n some_o member_n of_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n do_v not_o propound_v the_o holy_a kiss_n or_o the_o kiss_n of_o love_n to_o be_v practise_v by_o church-member_n nay_o whether_o by_o some_o person_n in_o that_o church_n be_v it_o not_o begin_v to_o be_v use_v and_o practise_v and_o in_o this_o enumeration_n of_o the_o part_n of_o public_a worship_n i_o desire_v to_o know_v why_o you_o put_v in_o etc._n etc._n and_o what_o be_v mean_v by_o etc._n etc._n for_o that_o imply_v more_o part_n than_o you_o enumerate_v and_o we_o know_v etc._n etc._n be_v a_o dangerous_a and_o suspicious_a phrase_n ever_o since_o the_o late_a canon_n and_o oath_n for_o under_o that_o etc._n etc._n may_v be_v mean_v prophesy_v and_o hymn_n and_o anoint_v with_o oil_n and_o the_o kiss_v of_o love_n and_o many_o other_o part_n which_o the_o reform_a church_n practise_v not_o and_o so_o your_o public_a worship_n may_v be_v make_v up_o of_o many_o other_o part_n then_o the_o worship_n of_o all_o other_o reform_a church_n and_o that_o there_o be_v great_a cause_n to_o speak_v thus_o and_o doubt_v appear_v because_o i_o know_v not_o nor_o can_v reckon_v up_o any_o other_o part_n of_o public_a worship_n
shall_v have_v lay_v down_o particular_o as_o wherein_o and_o how_o far_o you_o agree_v with_o the_o reform_a church_n so_o also_o wherein_o you_o depart_v from_o they_o namely_o you_o shall_v have_v show_v in_o what_o you_o practise_v more_o than_o they_o do_v and_o wherein_o you_o practise_v short_a of_o they_o and_o in_o the_o thing_n you_o practise_v with_o they_o yet_o how_o you_o differ_v in_o the_o manner_n of_o they_o but_o to_o return_v to_o that_o of_o censure_n reform_a church_n practice_v beside_o admonition_n and_o before_o they_o come_v to_o excommunication_n that_o which_o be_v call_v by_o divine_n abstentio_fw-la à _fw-la sacracaena_fw-la but_o you_o do_v not_o so_o but_o conceal_v this_o but_o brethren_n why_o shall_v you_o not_o practice_v this_o especial_o consider_v how_o according_a to_o your_o principle_n the_o church_n be_v to_o receive_v the_o lord_n supper_n every_o lord_n day_n now_o suppose_v some_o member_n commit_v a_o great_a sin_n on_o the_o saturday_n which_o though_o come_n it_o be_v know_v to_o the_o minister_n or_o elder_n and_o some_o of_o the_o people_n either_o there_o may_v be_v no_o time_n to_o call_v the_o church_n to_o admonish_v the_o party_n or_o if_o there_o be_v for_o admonition_n yet_o not_o time_n sufficient_a for_o the_o party_n to_o testify_v repentance_n and_o yet_o the_o person_n may_v not_o be_v judge_v obstinate_a and_o impenitent_a as_o to_o be_v excommunicate_v but_o the_o person_n offend_v will_v come_v now_o to_o the_o lord_n table_n in_o the_o interim_n what_o will_v you_o do_v in_o this_o case_n and_o further_o the_o reform_a church_n enjoin_v the_o censure_n of_o open_a confession_n of_o sin_n and_o practice_v deposition_n of_o officer_n from_o their_o place_n which_o may_v just_o arise_v upon_o some_o case_n and_o yet_o not_o think_v it_o fit_a to_o proceed_v unto_o excommunication_n as_o yourselves_o practise_v in_o m._n ward_n case_n never_o proceed_v to_o give_v he_o up_o to_o satan_n but_o how_o 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officer_n censure_n with_o the_o reform_a church_n but_o to_o return_v to_o that_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n which_o you_o insist_v upon_o lay_v down_o your_o judgement_n about_o the_o subject_n of_o that_o censure_n as_o for_o your_o blessing_n god_n you_o never_o exercise_v it_o there_o may_v be_v but_o little_a ground_n for_o such_o a_o blessing_n but_o cause_n rather_o to_o be_v humble_v for_o not_o use_v it_o seasonable_o i_o judge_v have_v you_o practise_v it_o some_o revile_n evil_a speaking_n between_o many_o member_n of_o your_o church_n with_o some_o other_o offence_n may_v have_v be_v prevent_v but_o there_o be_v no_o such_o great_a cause_n to_o set_v out_o yourselves_o by_o the_o non-exercise_n of_o excommunication_n if_o what_o you_o hold_v for_o the_o matter_n of_o it_o be_v consider_v wherein_o i_o suppose_v you_o differ_v from_o all_o orthodox_n reform_a church_n and_o do_v open_a a_o wide_a gap_n to_o much_o licentiousness_n both_o in_o doctrine_n and_o practice_n what_o do_v you_o judge_v be_v it_o not_o to_o be_v put_v in_o execution_n for_o no_o other_o kind_n of_o sin_n then_o may_v evident_o be_v presume_v to_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n etc._n etc._n what_o if_o man_n practise_v polygamy_n profane_v the_o lord_n day_n by_o use_v it_o as_o they_o do_v any_o other_o day_n what_o if_o they_o do_v hold_v and_o according_o will_v have_v practise_v community_n of_o good_n among_o believer_n what_o if_o they_o maintain_v that_o christian_n ought_v not_o to_o be_v magistrate_n all_o which_o be_v not_o condemn_v in_o all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n especial_o if_o some_o church_n may_v be_v take_v for_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o we_o have_v reason_n to_o believe_v by_o your_o manner_n of_o expression_n you_o include_v such_o neither_o be_v perpetrate_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n but_o rather_o be_v practise_v upon_o new_a light_n and_o as_o new_a truth_n and_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o explain_v your_o meaning_n what_o you_o mean_v by_o all_o the_o church_n of_o christ_n and_o by_o the_o common_a receive_v practice_n of_o christianity_n and_o what_o by_o the_o principle_n of_o christianity_n universal_o acknowledge_v in_o all_o the_o rest_n of_o the_o church_n whether_o by_o church_n you_o understand_v the_o church_n only_o of_o your_o own_o communion_n and_o way_n or_o the_o church_n which_o be_v common_o call_v the_o reform_a or_o else_o all_o church_n whatsoever_o that_o be_v so_o call_v as_o beside_o your_o own_o and_o the_o reform_a the_o church_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n antinomian_o and_o such_o like_a and_o i_o have_v reason_n to_o propound_v this_o question_n your_o word_n be_v so_o doubtful_a now_o if_o your_o word_n and_o phrase_n be_v take_v in_o the_o first_o sense_n of_o your_o church_n only_o that_o those_o sin_n and_o no_o other_o be_v to_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n then_o great_a sin_n and_o error_n according_a 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understand_v as_o be_v evident_a by_o your_o own_o expression_n in_o this_o passage_n about_o excommunication_n so_o that_o here_o be_v strange_a unsafe_a rule_n to_o go_v by_o in_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n and_o i_o judge_v it_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o new_a light_n and_o now_o truth_n of_o these_o time_n never_o yet_o give_v by_o any_o learned_a classical_a author_n how_o much_o better_o be_v it_o for_o church_n to_o make_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n such_o sin_n and_o error_n which_o the_o scripture_n have_v make_v so_o and_o those_o sin_n to_o be_v agree_v upon_o by_o common_a consent_n in_o assembly_n and_o synod_n so_o draw_v up_o for_o all_o to_o know_v they_o but_o if_o it_o be_v object_v that_o this_o may_v hinder_v further_a light_n and_o a_o after_o discovery_n i_o answer_v when_o any_o thing_n more_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v find_v out_o this_o need_n be_v no_o hindrance_n unto_o any_o light_n but_o by_o the_o public_a government_n and_o common_a consent_n upon_o good_a ground_n may_v be_v add_v but_o this_o your_o judgement_n about_o the_o censure_n of_o excommunication_n i_o fear_v be_v calculate_v for_o the_o meridian_n of_o pretend_a liberty_n of_o conscience_n now_o this_o position_n of_o hold_v the_o subject_n of_o excommunication_n to_o be_v only_o such_o sin_n and_o error_n as_o be_v against_o the_o party_n know_v light_n and_o the_o common_a receive_v practice_n of_o christianity_n profess_v in_o all_o church_n and_o no_o other_o to_o be_v the_o subject_n of_o it_o tend_v much_o to_o the_o tolerate_n of_o sect_n and_o heresy_n which_o in_o this_o impure_a age_n be_v by_o many_o man_n and_o by_o too_o many_o of_o the_o church_n way_n so_o studious_o promote_v against_o the_o nature_n of_o reformation_n and_o true_a zeal_n but_o if_o one_o of_o the_o great_a end_n of_o excommunication_n be_v to_o preserve_v other_o from_o
not_o deal_v fair_o in_o abridge_n the_o scripture_n and_o make_v your_o supreme_a rule_n so_o narrow_a as_o the_o act_n and_o epistle_n and_o i_o may_v just_o stand_v upon_o it_o to_o make_v you_o enlarge_v your_o rule_n to_o the_o book_n both_o of_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n yet_o well_o know_v the_o act_n of_o apostle_n and_o epistle_n will_v cast_v you_o i_o be_o well_o content_v and_o most_o ready_a at_o that_o weapon_n alone_o to_o try_v it_o with_o you_o and_o care_v not_o in_o the_o present_a controversy_n of_o the_o churchway_n as_o to_o let_v all_o other_o author_n so_o for_o the_o old_a testament_n and_o that_o part_n of_o the_o new_a too_o the_o gospel_n to_o stand_v by_o and_o if_o you_o can_v make_v good_a out_o of_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o the_o epistle_n by_o any_o apostolic_a direction_n pattern_n or_o example_n of_o those_o primitive_a church_n direct_v by_o the_o apostle_n many_o thing_n you_o practise_v and_o maintain_v as_o ordination_n of_o 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the_o ground_n of_o this_o principle_n within_o you_o your_o conscience_n be_v possess_v with_o that_o reverence_n and_o adoration_n of_o the_o fullness_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o there_o be_v therein_o a_o complete_a sufficiency_n as_o to_o make_v the_o man_n of_o god_n perfect_a so_o also_o to_o make_v the_o church_n of_o god_n perfect_a etc._n etc._n first_o i_o answer_v your_o ground_n here_o allege_v do_v not_o prove_v your_o supreme_a rule_n without_o you_o namely_o the_o primitive_a pattern_n and_o example_n of_o the_o church_n erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n to_o be_v complete_o sufficient_a to_o make_v the_o church_n of_o god_n perfect_a because_o that_o speak_v as_o of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n that_o there_o be_v in_o they_o a_o complete_a sufficiency_n and_o not_o as_o of_o a_o part_n now_o though_o the_o scripture_n may_v be_v and_o be_v so_o full_a and_o perfect_a yet_o every_o part_n may_v not_o you_o can_v in_o reason_n conceive_v that_o the_o whole_a may_v be_v complete_o sufficient_a to_o all_o end_n and_o use_n for_o which_o it_o be_v intend_v when_o a_o part_n or_o part_n may_v not_o suffice_v and_o that_o scripture_n which_o you_o allude_v unto_o for_o proof_n 2_o tim._n 3._o v._n 16_o 17._o speak_v of_o the_o whole_a scripture_n and_o not_o of_o a_o part_n only_o the_o papist_n will_v have_v 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o that_o text_n to_o signify_v non_fw-la totam_fw-la sed_fw-la omnem_fw-la scripturam_fw-la and_o so_o will_v give_v that_o praise_n not_o to_o the_o whole_a body_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o to_o particular_a part_n of_o it_o learned_a 3._o chamier_n snewe_v the_o contrary_a how_o that_o the_o whole_a scripture_n be_v here_o rather_o to_o be_v understand_v and_o he_o prove_v it_o by_o a_o threefold_a argument_n and_o in_o this_o great_a question_n between_o we_o and_o the_o papist_n a_o scriptura_fw-la christianum_fw-la perfâ—…ctum_fw-la reddat_fw-la resolve_v the_o question_n to_o be_v understand_v of_o the_o whole_a canon_n in_o the_o old_a and_o new_a testament_n and_o so_o do_v 14._o dr_n whitaker_n by_o which_o you_o may_v judge_v how_o unsufficient_a and_o short_a your_o first_o principle_n be_v be_v only_o a_o part_n of_o the_o scripture_n but_o not_o the_o whole_a and_o you_o may_v observe_v the_o fallaciousnesse_n of_o your_o reason_n propound_v to_o argue_v from_o the_o whole_a to_o a_o part_n because_o the_o whole_a scripture_n have_v a_o complete_a sufficiency_n to_o make_v the_o church_n of_o god_n perfect_a therefore_o the_o primitive_a pattern_n and_o example_n of_o the_o church_n erect_v by_o the_o apostle_n have_v too_o second_o i_o do_v also_o adore_v the_o fullness_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o god_n forbid_v that_o i_o shall_v take_v from_o the_o scripture_n any_o thing_n god_n give_v unto_o they_o or_o that_o which_o in_o the_o scripture_n be_v attribute_v unto_o it_o but_o we_o must_v not_o give_v unto_o the_o scripture_n more_o than_o what_o god_n intend_v they_o 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they_o also_o the_o scripture_n give_v light_a how_o to_o do_v they_o and_o thereupon_o shall_v speak_v as_o you_o do_v all_o along_o in_o this_o section_n will_v not_o this_o prove_v inconvenient_a and_o trouble_v you_o in_o your_o church_n nay_o suppose_v some_o shall_v so_o extol_v the_o fullness_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n that_o they_o shall_v hold_v they_o so_o perfect_a and_o sufficient_a for_o all_o christian_n as_o to_o be_v a_o perfect_a rule_n for_o all_o civil_a government_n and_o that_o chrstian_a commonwealth_n ought_v to_o be_v govern_v by_o law_n only_o there_o record_v and_o by_o no_o other_o which_o opinion_n in_o substance_n carolostadius_fw-la hold_v that_o in_o court_n of_o justice_n judge_n shall_v not_o proceed_v according_a to_o carolost_n humane_a law_n but_o according_a to_o the_o law_n of_o moses_n and_o so_o for_o military_a practice_n shall_v hold_v all_o the_o way_n of_o war_n must_v be_v found_v upon_o the_o scripture_n and_o thereupon_o shall_v clamour_v against_o any_o other_o art_n and_o way_n of_o war_n than_o what_o be_v practise_v there_o what_o will_v you_o reply_v to_o these_o man_n or_o what_o strength_n be_v there_o in_o such_o principle_n will_v not_o you_o answer_v they_o in_o what_o sense_n the_o scripture_n be_v perfect_a and_o how_o they_o must_v understand_v it_o man_n have_v often_o by_o give_v more_o to_o the_o most_o excellent_a creature_n and_o thing_n than_o the_o scripture_n allow_v fall_v into_o great_a error_n and_o mistake_n the_o papist_n and_o ubiquitary_n speak_v high_o of_o the_o body_n of_o christ_n and_o it_o be_v all_o in_o the_o way_n of_o magnify_v it_o and_o schuvenckfeldius_fw-la do_v boast_v himself_o to_o be_v the_o assertor_n of_o the_o glory_n of_o the_o flesh_n of_o christ_n in_o heaven_n which_o other_o preacher_n neglect_v schuvenckâ—…ld_n or_o else_o oppose_v and_o yet_o all_o these_o hold_v great_a error_n about_o the_o body_n and_o humane_a nature_n of_o christ_n under_o the_o notion_n of_o advance_v it_o so_o in_o the_o present_a controversy_n by_o give_v to_o the_o scripture_n that_o which_o god_n have_v not_o give_v to_o they_o both_o be_v and_o may_v be_v a_o ground_n of_o error_n and_o therefore_o i_o refer_v you_o for_o the_o true_a sense_n of_o that_o question_n concern_v the_o fullness_n and_o sufficiency_n of_o the_o scripture_n to_o make_v the_o church_n of_o god_n perfect_a unto_o the_o answer_v our_o protestant_a divine_n give_v the_o papist_n in_o that_o controversy_n about_o the_o perfection_n of_o the_o scripture_n and_o by_o the_o way_n let_v i_o commend_v to_o you_o and_o all_o the_o minister_n of_o the_o churchway_n to_o study_v our_o protestant_a writer_n as_o whitaker_n chamier_n etc._n etc._n against_o the_o papist_n upon_o the_o church_n and_o of_o the_o note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n upon_o the_o controversy_n concern_v the_o
infallible_o and_o necessary_o a_o particular_a church_n to_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregation_n yet_o they_o never_o intend_v it_o as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n now_o you_o know_v the_o say_n authoris_fw-la aliud_fw-la agentis_fw-la parva_fw-la est_fw-la authâ—…ritas_fw-la but_o show_v we_o where_o ever_o the_o old_a non-conformists'_a as_o against_o the_o reform_a church_n hold_v so_o it_o will_v appear_v by_o gerson_n bucerus_n and_o by_o the_o practice_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o geneva_n amplitudinâ—…_n and_o holland_n for_o which_o mr_n robinson_n so_o object_n against_o they_o in_o his_o apology_n that_o though_o they_o be_v against_o the_o government_n of_o bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n that_o be_v of_o a_o head_n church_n over_o many_o congregation_n unite_v to_o it_o yet_o not_o of_o a_o particular_a church_n of_o such_o a_o city_n consist_v of_o many_o particular_a congregation_n and_o as_o for_o that_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v by_o all_o that_o there_o shall_v be_v several_a elder_n in_o every_o congregation_n it_o be_v deny_v you_o for_o some_o divine_n as_o danaeus_n and_o cartwright_n as_o i_o remember_v hold_v it_o not_o necessary_a for_o every_o small_a congregation_n in_o village_n but_o for_o city_n and_o more_o populous_a place_n to_o which_o the_o lesser_a village_n be_v conjoin_v have_v the_o benefit_n and_o support_v of_o all_o the_o elder_n and_o minister_n in_o the_o exercise_v of_o government_n as_o for_o that_o you_o say_v other_o of_o they_o call_v the_o combination_n of_o church_n ecclesiae_fw-la ortae_fw-la but_o particular_a congregation_n ecclesiae_fw-la primae_fw-la as_o wherein_o first_o the_o power_n and_o privilege_n of_o a_o church_n be_v to_o be_v exercise_v that_o other_o be_v â—…2_n mr_n parker_n who_o in_o his_o politia_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la give_v we_o this_o distinction_n and_o be_v the_o first_o who_o bring_v it_o up_o as_o ever_o i_o read_v of_o who_o differ_v from_o mr_n baynes_n and_o other_o non-conformists'_a and_o most_o divine_n of_o the_o reform_a church_n in_o the_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n give_v it_o to_o the_o 1._o body_n of_o the_o church_n agree_v therein_o too_o much_o with_o you_o no_o wonder_n he_o call_v particular_a congregation_n ecclesiae_fw-la primae_fw-la but_o as_o he_o be_v mistake_v in_o the_o first_o receptacle_n and_o subject_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o key_n so_o he_o may_v be_v in_o his_o distinction_n of_o ecclesiae_fw-la primae_fw-la and_o ortae_fw-la for_o the_o first_o church_n namely_o that_o of_o jerusalem_n rome_n ephesus_n with_o other_o be_v not_o particular_a congregation_n but_o church_n consist_v of_o many_o congregation_n several_a meeting_n place_n some_o preach_n in_o one_o place_n and_o other_o in_o other_o place_n but_o govern_v by_o the_o elder_n in_o common_a which_o city_n church_n be_v the_o first_o church_n still_o first_o plant_v by_o the_o apostle_n and_o particular_a congregation_n in_o village_n be_v ecclesiae_fw-la ortae_fw-la the_o city_n church_n in_o this_o sense_n be_v the_o mother_n and_o the_o particular_a congregation_n rather_o the_o daughter_n the_o full_a proof_n and_o demonstration_n whereof_o i_o refer_v to_o a_o tractate_n i_o intend_v about_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o by_o what_o i_o have_v answer_v upon_o this_o head_n the_o reader_n separation_n may_v observe_v there_o be_v not_o all_o grant_v which_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v from_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o the_o nonconformist_n and_o what_o be_v yield_v slow_v from_o another_o spring_n and_o be_v upon_o another_o ground_n write_v against_o diocesan_n bishop_n quite_o another_o controversy_n but_o otherwise_o even_o when_o nonconformist_n have_v come_v to_o write_v against_o the_o separation_n and_o upon_o the_o nature_n of_o a_o visible_a church_n as_o mr_n ball_n a_o they_o hold_v the_o contrary_n and_o for_o learned_a man_n of_o other_o church_n even_o when_o they_o write_v against_o episcopacy_n yet_o they_o be_v far_o from_o hold_v that_o a_o particular_a visible_a church_n be_v only_o a_o particular_a congregation_n pertinens_fw-la as_o gersom_a bucerus_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o d_o â—_o downham_n a_o particular_a church_n be_v any_o company_n of_o believer_n conjoin_v in_o the_o observation_n of_o holy_a ordinance_n and_o unite_a to_o one_o presbytery_n keep_v their_o meeting_n in_o one_o or_o more_o place_n for_o the_o number_n of_o parish_n in_o which_o they_o meet_v be_v a_o thing_n accidental_a be_v nothing_o at_o all_o to_o the_o essence_n of_o a_o particular_a church_n and_o even_o the_o nonconformist_n you_o speak_v of_o as_o it_o appear_v by_o the_o wary_a expression_n yourselves_o use_v of_o they_o namely_o infallible_o and_o necessary_o do_v even_o give_v the_o cause_n for_o that_o be_v as_o you_o imply_v the_o nonconformist_n in_o their_o answer_n can_v not_o deny_v but_o probable_o the_o number_n of_o believer_n be_v so_o numerous_a as_o to_o exceed_v the_o limit_n of_o one_o particular_a congregation_n in_o those_o first_o timâ—…s_n though_o not_o infallible_o and_o rational_o though_o not_o necessary_o now_o in_o point_n of_o external_a order_n and_o government_n which_o depend_v upon_o the_o story_n and_o circumstance_n of_o time_n and_o place_n how_o many_o thing_n be_v there_o practise_v but_o of_o presumption_n though_o not_o of_o certainty_n and_o though_o they_o can_v be_v infallible_o and_o necessary_o prove_v so_o as_o to_o stop_v all_o mouth_n and_o all_o that_o the_o wit_n of_o man_n can_v possible_o find_v out_o yet_o if_o the_o thing_n assert_v can_v be_v but_o probable_o prove_v upon_o better_a reason_n then_o the_o contrary_a we_o may_v incline_v to_o that_o as_o to_o the_o safe_a part_n how_o many_o practice_n and_o tenant_n have_v you_o in_o your_o churchway_n that_o can_v be_v infallible_o and_o necessary_o prove_v but_o strong_a answer_n may_v be_v and_o be_v give_v to_o the_o reason_n you_o bring_v for_o they_o than_o any_o the_o nonconformist_n can_v give_v to_o that_o instance_n of_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n and_o yet_o you_o hold_v to_o your_o principle_n for_o all_o that_o and_o it_o be_v a_o rule_n have_v be_v plead_v by_o some_o of_o you_o that_o in_o thing_n of_o that_o nature_n where_o the_o scripture_n be_v not_o express_v but_o hold_v they_o out_o most_o probable_o though_o not_o infallible_o and_o necessary_o yet_o we_o ought_v to_o incline_v to_o that_o as_o for_o mr_n baynes_n answer_n though_o direct_v against_o diocesan_n bishop_n and_o diocesan_n church_n to_o that_o instance_n of_o the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n it_o be_v no_o whit_n satisfactory_a nor_o conclude_v to_o any_o man_n who_o be_v of_o another_o judgement_n as_o the_o reader_n may_v read_v in_o the_o 15._o and_o 16._o page_n of_o the_o diocese_n trial_n to_z the_o 3_o particular_a under_o the_o first_o head_n namely_o what_o you_o allow_v and_o grant_v about_o a_o church_n and_o the_o government_n that_o you_o can_v not_o but_o imagine_v that_o the_o first_o church_n plant_v by_o the_o apostle_n be_v ordinary_o of_o no_o more_o in_o one_o city_n at_o the_o first_o then_o may_v make_v up_o one_o entire_a congregation_n rule_v by_o their_o own_o elder_n that_o also_o preach_v to_o they_o and_o that_o you_o can_v not_o but_o judge_v it_o a_o safe_a and_o a_o allow_a way_n to_o retain_v the_o government_n of_o your_o several_a congregation_n for_o matter_n of_o discipline_n within_o themselves_o to_o be_v exercise_v by_o their_o own_o elder_n etc._n etc._n in_o way_n of_o answer_n i_o must_v first_o complain_v of_o your_o old_a fault_n the_o slippery_a and_o uncertain_a expression_n use_v in_o the_o relation_n of_o what_o you_o own_o and_o allow_v about_o a_o church_n in_o those_o phrase_n the_o first_o church_n ordinary_o and_o at_o first_o i_o demand_v the_o reason_n of_o you_o why_o you_o put_v in_o ordinary_o and_o at_o first_o be_v it_o not_o because_o you_o foresee_v the_o church_n of_o jerusalem_n and_o some_o few_o other_o record_v in_o the_o new_a testament_n though_o not_o in_o the_o first_o chapter_n of_o the_o act_n and_o at_o the_o beginning_n yet_o will_v at_o last_o by_o the_o 8._o of_o the_o act_n and_o act_n 21._o amount_v to_o more_o than_o can_v meet_v in_o one_o congregation_n and_o therefore_o you_o express_v it_o so_o be_v this_o fair_a deal_n or_o what_o other_o reason_n can_v you_o give_v for_o use_v such_o doubtful_a expression_n the_o question_n be_v not_o between_o you_o and_o we_o whether_o all_o the_o church_n and_o most_o of_o the_o church_n or_o whether_o at_o first_o and_o in_o the_o begin_n of_o they_o they_o consist_v of_o no_o more_o in_o one_o city_n then_o to_o make_v up_o one_o congregation_n but_o whether_o the_o scripture_n in_o the_o act_n of_o the_o apostle_n and_o epistle_n be_v it_o first_o or_o last_o soon_o or_o late_a give_v any_o pattern_n or_o example_n of_o
half_a slight_a late_a and_o partial_a remedy_n to_o the_o offence_n and_o scandal_n relate_v the_o story_n more_o at_o large_a and_o then_o make_v some_o query_n upon_o it_o and_o your_o solemn_a practice_n thereupon_o and_o then_o i_o shall_v leave_v it_o to_o the_o reader_n to_o judge_v whether_o your_o principle_n of_o submission_n be_v comparable_a to_o the_o way_n of_o the_o combine_a classical_a presbyterial_a government_n the_o church_n in_o which_o this_o offence_n fall_v out_o be_v at_o rotterdam_n of_o which_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n ward_n of_o norwich_n old_a love_a friend_n and_o both_o fly_n upon_o the_o same_o cause_n bishop_n wren_n innovation_n be_v the_o minister_n and_o the_o minister_n depose_v by_o the_o church_n be_v this_o mr_n ward_n who_o for_o appear_v and_o side_v against_o mr_n bridge_n in_o some_o particular_n and_o for_o his_o preach_n of_o sermon_n in_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n which_o he_o have_v preach_v before_o in_o his_o church_n at_o norwich_n and_o for_o his_o give_v too_o much_o heed_n to_o the_o report_n of_o simple_a people_n and_o old_a wife_n tale_n be_v thus_o depose_v but_o i_o can_v so_o full_o cause_v the_o reader_n to_o understand_v matter_n without_o relate_v the_o first_o difference_n between_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n simpson_n the_o true_a ground_n and_o rise_v of_o this_o latter_a offence_n mr_n simpson_n one_o of_o the_o author_n of_o this_o apologetical_a narration_n after_o some_o time_n of_o behold_v the_o order_n and_o way_n of_o this_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n desire_v to_o be_v admit_v a_o member_n and_o be_v upon_o his_o confession_n etc._n etc._n receive_v in_o but_o not_o long_o after_o what_o be_v the_o true_a reason_n he_o best_a know_v he_o dislike_v some_o person_n and_o thing_n in_o that_o church_n and_o he_o stand_v for_o the_o ordinance_n of_o prophesy_v to_o be_v exercise_v in_o that_o church_n that_o the_o people_n on_o the_o lord_n day_n shall_v have_v lâ—…berty_n after_o the_o sermon_n end_v to_o put_v doubt_n and_o question_n to_o the_o minister_n etc._n etc._n and_o he_o be_v trouble_v at_o a_o roll_a elder_a in_o that_o church_n bring_v in_o by_o mr_n bridge_n which_o belike_o have_v more_o power_n and_o bore_v more_o sway_n than_o himself_o who_o as_o mr_n simpson_n in_o a_o letter_n to_o a_o minister_n in_o london_n complain_v of_o the_o difference_n between_o he_o and_o mr_n bridge_n write_v how_o that_o elder_a be_v in_o that_o church_n over_o all_o person_n and_o over_o all_o cause_n but_o mr_n bridge_n oppose_v mr_n simpson_n prophesy_v upon_o so_o the_o rational_a ground_n of_o inconveniencit_n as_o himself_o tell_v i_o the_o story_n which_o be_v too_o long_o to_o relate_v yet_o he_o yield_v so_o far_o that_o the_o church_n shall_v meet_v on_o a_o week_n day_n and_o then_o they_o shall_v have_v that_o liberty_n but_o this_o will_v no_o way_n satisfy_v mr_n simpson_n whereupon_o the_o difference_n increase_v and_o there_o be_v siding_n but_o mr_n bridges_n power_n be_v the_o great_a to_o carry_v thing_n in_o the_o church_n and_o so_o mr_n simpson_n will_v abide_v no_o long_o but_o quit_v that_o church_n though_o he_o have_v no_o letter_n of_o dismission_n from_o that_o church_n and_o with_o the_o help_n of_o a_o woman_n who_o mr_n bridge_n call_v tell_v i_o the_o story_n of_o thing_n between_o they_o the_o foundress_n of_o mr_n simpson_n church_n set_v up_o a_o church_n against_o a_o church_n consist_v but_o of_o five_o person_n at_o the_o most_o in_o the_o beginning_n whereof_o the_o woman_n and_o her_o husband_n be_v two_o but_o this_o church_n of_o mr_n simpson_n increase_v as_o be_v extol_v for_o a_o pure_a church_n and_o for_o more_o ordinance_n but_o mr_n bridges_n church_n be_v cry_v down_o for_o old_a rot_a member_n and_o for_o the_o want_n of_o prophecy_n and_o so_o the_o fire_n of_o contention_n and_o difference_n grow_v more_o and_o more_o between_o mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n simpson_n and_o their_o church_n now_o mr_n ward_n mr_n bridges_n colleague_n side_v with_o mr_n simpson_n stand_v for_o prophesy_v and_o though_o mr_n simpson_n have_v leave_v that_o church_n yet_o mr_n ward_n in_o that_o church_n be_v for_o mr_n simpson_n way_n whereupon_o by_o occasion_n of_o that_o and_o for_o exercise_v his_o gift_n no_o better_o but_o to_o preach_v his_o old_a sermon_n he_o have_v former_o preach_v at_o norwich_n and_o believe_v of_o tale_n give_v so_o much_o way_n to_o report_n he_o be_v depose_v by_o that_o church_n among_o 17_o or_o 18_o reason_n of_o mr_n ward_n deposition_n a_o godly_a learned_a minister_n who_o have_v see_v they_o in_o writing_n tell_v i_o these_o be_v the_o most_o material_a and_o now_o upon_o mr_n simpson_n rend_v from_o the_o church_n and_o set_v up_o a_o church_n against_o a_o church_n under_o mr_n bridges_n nose_n and_o upon_o mr_n ward_n deposition_n from_o his_o ministry_n and_o mr_n simpson_n church_n increase_v in_o fame_n and_o number_n but_o mr_n bridges_n decrease_v and_o some_o other_o rend_a themselves_o away_o and_o upon_o wicked_a report_n raise_v about_o mr_n bridge_n there_o grow_v that_o bitterness_n evil_a speaking_n deep_a censuring_n deadly_a feaud_n among_o these_o minister_n and_o their_o church_n as_o never_o be_v more_o betwixt_o the_o jew_n and_o the_o samaritan_n mr_n bridge_n confess_v to_o i_o there_o be_v no_o such_o sharp_a tongue_n nor_o bitter_a division_n as_o these_o letter_n from_o all_o three_o be_v send_v into_o england_n both_o into_o city_n and_o country_n against_o each_o other_o mr_n simpson_n dispatch_v many_o letter_n into_o england_n against_o mr_n bridge_n as_o to_o mr_n m._n mr_n b._n mr_n h._n mr_n r._n etc._n etc._n and_o mr_n bridge_n against_o mr_n simpson_n mr_n bridge_n and_o mr_n ward_n write_v many_o letter_n one_o against_o the_o other_o particular_o to_o norwich_n and_o among_o other_o many_o sharp_a letter_n be_v send_v to_o a_o d_o of_o physic_n about_o the_o difference_n and_o upon_o their_o come_n over_o into_o england_n they_o tell_v sad_a story_n for_o themselves_o and_o each_o against_o other_o mâ—…_n bridge_n lay_v these_o bitter_a difference_n and_o report_n so_o to_o heart_n that_o they_o be_v a_o great_a mean_n of_o her_o death_n and_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n weakness_n and_o distemper_n be_v not_o occasion_v by_o the_o division_n and_o the_o wicked_a scandal_n unjust_o i_o believe_v raise_v upon_o he_o as_o well_o as_o by_o the_o air_n of_o rotterdam_n mr_n bridge_n know_v best_a and_o thus_o much_o for_o the_o particular_a relation_n of_o the_o scandal_n and_o offence_n that_o fall_v out_o in_o that_o church_n of_o rotterdam_n as_o it_o have_v be_v relate_v to_o i_o from_o good_a hand_n from_o some_o who_o have_v live_v in_o holland_n and_o as_o i_o have_v part_n of_o it_o from_o mr_n bridges_n own_o mouth_n and_o some_o of_o it_o from_o letter_n of_o mr_n simpson_n write_v into_o england_n and_o from_o other_o man_n of_o credit_n who_o have_v see_v letter_n and_o relation_n write_v from_o thence_o now_o from_o the_o relation_n of_o this_o story_n and_o your_o practice_n upon_o it_o i_o shall_v propound_v these_o query_n which_o will_v give_v some_o light_n to_o judge_v whether_o there_o be_v any_o sufficiency_n in_o your_o course_n to_o remedy_n and_o redress_v thing_n amiss_o in_o church_n and_o betwixt_o person_n offend_v 1._o whether_o your_o church_n do_v agree_v upon_o and_o tie_v yourselves_o to_o this_o principle_n of_o submission_n and_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n at_o your_o first_o set_v up_o and_o come_v into_o that_o place_n of_o exile_n or_o do_v you_o first_o acknowledge_v it_o and_o be_v willing_a to_o submit_v upon_o the_o occasion_n of_o the_o scandal_n of_o mr_n ward_n depose_v and_o that_o great_a clamour_n upon_o it_o both_o in_o holland_n and_o england_n 2._o whether_o do_v you_o then_o or_o do_v you_o now_o acknowledge_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n to_o all_o other_o neighbour_n church_n as_o well_o as_o to_o they_o of_o your_o own_o way_n as_o namely_o to_o the_o presbyterian_a church_n those_o english_a church_n at_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n etc._n etc._n and_o will_v you_o have_v submit_v to_o those_o church_n to_o have_v so_o proceed_v upon_o offence_n and_o difference_n among_o you_o 3._o how_o long_o be_v it_o be_v it_o not_o for_o the_o space_n of_o between_o a_o year_n and_o two_o that_o mr_n ward_n stand_v depose_v and_o lay_v aside_o from_o his_o ministry_n and_o maintenance_n before_o he_o be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o late_a remedy_n and_o iâ—…_n it_o so_o in_o presbyterial_a government_n 4._o when_o and_o at_o what_o time_n be_v this_o principle_n of_o sâ—…bmission_n and_o your_o solemn_a practice_n both_o of_o â—…equiring_v the_o church_n offend_v to_o give_v a_o account_n with_o their_o châ—…arfull_a submit_v
and_o restore_v mr_n ward_n agree_v upon_o be_v it_o not_o upon_o the_o news_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o the_o probability_n of_o the_o revolution_n of_o thing_n and_o i_o propound_v this_o question_n because_o mr_n bâ—…rroughs_n who_o come_v in_o m._n ward_n place_n after_o his_o deposition_n come_v back_o to_o england_n but_o at_o the_o begin_n of_o the_o parliament_n and_o till_o he_o come_v or_o be_v resolve_v to_o come_v it_o be_v not_o probable_a m._n ward_n be_v restore_v and_o if_o so_o that_o it_o be_v do_v when_o all_o be_v like_a to_o break_v up_o and_o they_o to_o come_v fâ—…_n england_n may_v we_o not_o suspect_v it_o be_v do_v for_o a_o instance_n to_o vindicate_v your_o way_n with_o and_o to_o serve_v your_o turn_n as_o in_o this_o apology_n rather_o than_o from_o any_o necessity_n of_o right_v a_o person_n â—…jured_v or_o correct_v a_o church_n offend_v 5._o why_o do_v not_o the_o church_n of_o arnheim_n take_v offence_n as_o well_o at_o m._n sympson_n church_n and_o at_o his_o schism_n in_o set_v up_o another_o church_n and_o at_o all_o that_o bitterness_n evil_a speak_v between_o those_o two_o church_n the_o ground_n indeed_o and_o foundation_n of_o that_o unhappy_a business_n about_o m._n ward_n and_o of_o all_o the_o evil_n commit_v therein_o and_o according_o have_v require_v m._n sympson_n church_n to_o have_v submit_v but_o here_o be_v not_o a_o hint_n of_o this_o in_o all_o the_o relation_n of_o your_o practice_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n out_o of_o holland_n by_o i_o that_o concern_v this_o business_n write_v thus_o that_o though_o m._n sympson_n with_o sâ—…me_n fâ—…w_o morâ—…_n râ—…t_v themselves_o from_o m._n bridges_n church_n to_o the_o great_a offence_n thereof_o yet_o m._n goodwin_n and_o his_o associate_n when_o they_o come_v to_o hear_v the_o business_n about_o m._n ward_n never_o question_v that_o scandal_n i_o mean_v of_o their_o schism_n from_o the_o same_o church_n now_o if_o it_o be_v so_o be_v not_o this_o a_o partial_a remedy_n not_o reach_v to_o all_o the_o offence_n noâ—…_n to_o the_o bottom_n of_o it_o why_o do_v you_o not_o summon_v both_o these_o church_n in_o the_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o difference_n to_o submit_v as_o well_o as_o one_o of_o the_o church_n will_v not_o your_o principle_n serve_v in_o difference_n between_o church_n as_o for_o difference_n in_o one_o church_n or_o be_v it_o that_o there_o be_v no_o complaint_n of_o neither_o side_n or_o be_v it_o because_o you_o be_v tender_a of_o question_v the_o multiplication_n of_o church_n though_o by_o separation_n and_o schiâ—…me_n or_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n you_o question_v not_o that_o 6._o whether_o be_v the_o other_o church_n of_o our_o nation_n or_o any_o of_o they_o who_o can_v not_o but_o be_v offend_v as_o they_o of_o amsterdam_n hague_n utrich_n leyden_n delft_n call_v in_o by_o arnheim_n or_o by_o the_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n to_o join_v in_o the_o hear_n try_v of_o that_o business_n and_o depose_v witness_n or_o do_v they_o send_v messenger_n or_o be_v it_o only_o agitate_a by_o two_o minister_n â—…nd_v two_o messenger_n of_o tâ—…_n church_n of_o arnheim_n one_o church_n only_o 〈◊〉_d to_o 〈◊〉_d one_o to_o one_o both_o equal_a and_o whether_o there_o can_v be_v the_o like_a majesty_n and_o solemnity_n of_o a_o meeting_n where_o they_o be_v equal_a â—…ay_v a_o inferiority_n in_o as_o much_o as_o a_o representative_a church_n consist_v of_o four_o be_v below_o a_o church_n represent_v as_o in_o a_o presbyterial_a assâ—…bly_n i_o have_v a_o letter_n from_o holland_n by_o i_o wherein_o a_o godly_a ministâ—…r_n write_v thus_o i_o be_v desire_v by_o mr_n ward_n to_o be_v present_a at_o that_o meeting_n but_o when_o the_o time_n come_v neither_o i_o nor_o any_o other_o english_a minister_n but_o they_o of_o arnheim_n be_v callâ—…d_v 7._o to_o what_o or_o to_o how_o much_o do_v your_o practice_n who_o be_v the_o church_n offend_v amount_v unto_o upon_o mr_n bridges_n church_n submission_n and_o your_o full_a hear_n and_o find_v both_o side_n to_o be_v in_o a_o error_n do_v you_o enjoin_v and_o draw_v up_o a_o order_n that_o the_o church_n offend_v shall_v public_o acknowledge_v their_o sinfâ—…_n abeâ—…ation_n before_o you_o and_o the_o comer_n of_o all_o sort_n and_o restore_v their_o minister_n again_o and_o that_o they_o shall_v keep_v a_o solemn_a day_n of_o fast_v to_o humble_v themselves_o for_o their_o sinful_a carriage_n and_o that_o the_o minister_n depose_v shall_v acknowledge_v to_o the_o church_n wherein_o he_o have_v likewise_o sin_v or_o do_v you_o leave_v they_o to_o themselves_o upon_o your_o find_v the_o offence_n to_o do_v what_o they_o think_v fit_v both_o church_n and_o minister_n as_o be_v against_o your_o principle_n for_o one_o church_n to_o decree_n and_o impose_v any_o thing_n upon_o another_o and_o so_o they_o â—…ooke_v up_o this_o way_n voluntary_o will_v you_o will_v speak_v out_o and_o once_o tell_v we_o plain_o what_o you_o hold_v and_o what_o you_o woâ—…ld_v 〈◊〉_d that_o so_o the_o reader_n may_v judge_v of_o the_o effectualnessâ—…_n of_o your_o 〈◊〉_d 8._o i_o ask_v of_o you_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n with_o the_o offend_a church_n at_o rotterdam_n do_v sit_v as_o judge_n with_o they_o oâ—…_n 〈◊〉_d in_o their_o own_o cause_n to_o examine_v depose_v etc._n etc._n or_o else_o 〈◊〉_d by_o aâ—…_n delinquent_n to_o be_v charge_v try_a etc._n etc._n 9_o i_o deâ—…e_v to_o know_v of_o you_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d he_o be_v râ—…stored_v do_v as_o forme_o officiate_v in_o that_o church_n and_o how_o long_o and_o whether_o mr_n bridge_n and_o he_o continue_v there_o as_o fellow_n minister_n and_o whether_o both_o between_o they_o two_o and_o between_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n there_o be_v that_o mutual_a carriage_n as_o before_o and_o aught_o to_o be_v between_o fellow_n minister_n and_o minister_n and_o people_n 10._o how_o can_v a_o church_n representative_a be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o allow_a remedy_n to_o take_v up_o great_a offence_n in_o a_o church_n at_o a_o great_a distance_n and_o whether_o this_o imply_v not_o a_o implicit_a faith_n in_o the_o represent_v to_o let_v the_o representer_n upon_o hear_v put_v a_o final_a determination_n and_o conclusion_n to_o great_a offence_n and_o difference_n without_o return_v back_o the_o business_n to_o the_o church_n represent_v or_o so_o much_o as_o ever_o acquaint_v they_o with_o the_o business_n before_o all_o be_v end_v as_o be_v in_o this_o particular_a case_n and_o whether_o faith_n mr_n robinsâ—…s_fw-fr argument_n against_o the_o presbyterian_o â—…bout_o the_o power_n of_o their_o elder_n be_v not_o strong_a against_o your_o principle_n and_o practice_n here_o relate_v and_o what_o ground_n be_v there_o from_o tâ—…e_a scripture_n that_o four_o man_n of_o another_o church_n shall_v have_v power_n to_o call_v unto_o and_o insist_v upon_o a_o judiciarie_n charge_v against_o they_o who_o be_v great_a than_o themselves_o namely_o against_o a_o whole_a church_n consist_v of_o officerâ—…_n and_o people_n 11._o suppose_v the_o church_n of_o arâ—…m_n who_o send_v two_o ministerâ—…_n and_o two_o gentleman_n â—…s_v messenger_n of_o their_o church_n upon_o their_o return_n back_o to_o the_o church_n and_o give_v a_o account_n of_o all_o the_o proceed_n and_o issue_n of_o that_o business_n have_v dislike_v the_o determination_n and_o judge_v some_o of_o the_o proceed_n unjust_a otherâ—…_n unsatisfactory_a and_o not_o according_a to_o the_o rule_n of_o the_o word_n as_o the_o church_n of_o 〈◊〉_d may_v well_o have_v do_v there_o be_v just_a ground_n for_o it_o as_o i_o will_v show_v in_o the_o second_o particular_a under_o the_o next_o head_n what_o must_v have_v be_v do_v in_o this_o case_n must_v the_o messenger_n themselves_o have_v be_v now_o question_v by_o the_o church_n for_o manage_v matter_n no_o better_a or_o must_v the_o sentence_n agree_v upon_o both_o for_o the_o church_n and_o mr_n ward_n be_v reverse_v or_o must_v other_o messenger_n be_v send_v to_o hear_v matter_n again_o and_o to_o change_v or_o add_v what_o be_v amiss_o and_o what_o if_o the_o church_n will_v not_o alter_v that_o which_o upon_o so_o full_a a_o hear_n and_o trial_n be_v agree_v upon_o now_o i_o ask_v of_o you_o and_o appeal_v to_o the_o reader_n consider_v that_o the_o church_n or_o church_n themselves_o may_v probable_o and_o it_o can_v but_o be_v expect_v 〈◊〉_d and_o vary_v in_o their_o judgement_n from_o their_o messenger_n about_o the_o determination_n of_o offence_n and_o difference_n whether_o this_o be_v a_o likely_a mean_n and_o sufficient_a remedy_n to_o end_v all_o strifed_a or_o rather_o will_v not_o be_v as_o the_o begin_n of_o new_a strife_n and_o a_o occasion_n of_o endless_a contention_n 12._o in_o this_o way_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n and_o your_o practice_n upon_o occasion_n of_o offence_n and_o
word_n to_o hinder_v the_o depose_n of_o mr_n ward_n and_o so_o to_o have_v prevent_v so_o great_a a_o scandal_n and_o offence_n as_o this_o be_v to_o the_o five_o and_o last_o general_a head_n the_o comparison_n you_o make_v between_o the_o effectualness_n and_o powerfulnesse_n of_o your_o way_n of_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n and_o that_o of_o the_o presbyterian_o to_o awe_n and_o preserve_v church_n and_o elder_n in_o their_o duty_n and_o to_o reduce_v church_n miscarry_v where_o you_o make_v the_o sâ—…ales_n fall_v on_o your_o side_n rather_o i_o answer_v beside_o some_o considerable_a thing_n already_o hint_v under_o some_o of_o the_o former_a head_n especial_o under_o the_o four_o head_n which_o do_v show_v a_o wide_a difference_n of_o the_o effectualness_n and_o success_n which_o the_o presbyterian_a principle_n and_o way_n hold_v out_o over_o your_o congregationall_a thâ—…e_o be_v many_o other_o to_o 〈◊〉_d the_o sâ—…les_n which_o i_o shall_v now_o speak_v of_o according_a as_o it_o be_v lay_v down_o here_o by_o you_o in_o the_o 17_o 18_o and_o 19_o page_n 1._o that_o you_o may_v render_v your_o way_n the_o more_o specious_a and_o probable_a you_o beg_v the_o question_n and_o take_v for_o grant_v thing_n deny_v suppose_v that_o also_o which_o never_o have_v fall_v out_o in_o the_o reform_a church_n and_o you_o speak_v but_o to_o a_o part_n of_o the_o way_n and_o remedy_n namely_o excommunication_n anâ—…_n from_o all_o these_o false_a premise_n you_o make_v your_o conclusion_n you_o lie_v down_o your_o way_n of_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n 〈◊〉_d that_o â—…ch_n be_v the_o 〈◊〉_d and_o way_n of_o christ_n and_o to_o be_v strict_o enjoin_v by_o christ_n â—…d_v that_o it_o be_v a_o command_n from_o christ_n enjoin_v to_o church_n that_o be_v â—…ly_o offend_v to_o denounce_v such_o a_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n which_o be_v a_o mere_a device_n of_o your_o own_o brain_n and_o sound_v out_o to_o give_v a_o colourable_a answer_n to_o that_o common_a and_o 〈◊〉_d reason_n against_o the_o churchway_n 〈◊〉_d you_o make_v that_o 〈◊〉_d 〈◊〉_d in_o presbytery_n to_o be_v a_o excommunicate_v of_o whole_a church_n and_o â—…s_v deliver_v of_o whole_a church_n and_o their_o eldere_fw-la offend_v unto_o saâ—…n_n which_o be_v a_o scandalous_a charge_n lay_v to_o though_o presbyterian_a government_n and_o never_o yet_o be_v â—…rd_n of_o in_o any_o of_o the_o reform_a church_n for_o the_o space_n now_o of_o a_o hundred_o year_n past_a you_o lay_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v whereas_o in_o some_o thing_n i_o shall_v show_v the_o contrary_a and_o in_o other_o thing_n you_o may_v out_o of_o policy_n at_o this_o time_n give_v more_o than_o the_o scripture_n allow_v you_o speak_v only_o of_o excommunication_n a_o part_n of_o their_o way_n whereas_o in_o combine_a classical_a government_n there_o be_v many_o other_o mean_n and_o way_n from_o first_o to_o last_o to_o preserve_v and_o reduce_v from_o error_n and_o offence_n 2._o the_o comparison_n make_v by_o you_o between_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o independent_o stand_v in_o two_o thing_n first_o in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n and_o power_n second_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n 1._o for_o the_o ecclesiastical_a you_o make_v that_o principle_n of_o submission_n of_o church_n that_o miscarry_v and_o that_o of_o non-communion_n as_o effectual_a as_o excommunication_n which_o suppose_v they_o be_v as_o i_o shall_v show_v they_o be_v not_o yet_o it_o be_v a_o fallacious_a reason_n by_o compare_v the_o whole_a with_o a_o part_n for_o a_o whole_a of_o one_o kind_n may_v be_v better_a and_o more_o excellent_a than_o some_o part_n of_o another_o kind_n and_o yet_o not_o comparable_a to_o the_o whole_a now_o there_o be_v many_o thing_n in_o presbyterial_a government_n beside_o excommunication_n excellent_a to_o preserve_v and_o keep_v the_o church_n their_o reformation_n and_o constitution_n be_v settle_v by_o synod_n and_o assembly_n their_o minister_n be_v ordain_v by_o presbytery_n and_o class_n their_o doctrine_n worship_n government_n and_o discipline_n upon_o serious_a debate_n and_o by_o common_a content_n draw_v up_o then_o rule_v be_v fix_v know_v and_o certain_a their_o classical_a meeting_n frequent_a and_o constant_a with_o high_a assembly_n for_o appeal_n their_o number_n and_o ability_n great_a their_o remedy_n and_o censure_n more_o solemn_a and_o more_o in_o number_n as_o deposition_n suspension_n etc._n etc._n all_o which_o be_v want_v in_o the_o church_n way_n as_o i_o can_v show_v at_o large_a but_o that_o this_o answer_n will_v be_v too_o great_a a_o volume_n but_o to_o come_v to_o particular_n the_o presbyterian_a be_v more_o effectual_a than_o your_o independent_a way_n 1._o because_o it_o do_v prevent_v and_o preserve_v from_o those_o many_o error_n division_n evil_n which_o fall_v in_o your_o way_n as_o be_v evident_a by_o experience_n and_o be_v found_v upon_o good_a reason_n will_v fall_v out_o now_o how_o much_o better_a and_o more_o effectual_a a_o way_n it_o be_v to_o play_v the_o foregame_n than_o the_o aftergame_n all_o man_n know_v it_o be_v better_a to_o prevent_v the_o plague_n and_o take_n in_o poison_n then_o to_o expel_v it_o government_n be_v for_o prevention_n as_o well_o as_o recover_v if_o your_o way_n be_v as_o effectual_a to_o compose_v difference_n and_o reduce_v church_n yet_o not_o so_o to_o prevent_v which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o great_a end_n of_o church_n government_n 2._o your_o way_n wrap_v in_o whole_a church_n in_o sin_n and_o guilt_n and_o you_o have_v no_o remedy_n but_o it_o must_v come_v to_o non-communion_n of_o whole_a church_n but_o in_o presbyterial_a it_o be_v not_o so_o no_o example_n be_v extant_a among_o they_o of_o excommunicate_v whole_a church_n so_o that_o if_o a_o error_n take_v one_o or_o two_o they_o be_v present_o deal_v with_o and_o the_o error_n spread_v not_o to_o a_o whole_a church_n 3._o in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n the_o person_n offend_v and_o sin_v in_o congregation_n be_v proceed_v with_o and_o punish_v every_o man_n bear_v his_o own_o sin_n but_o the_o innocent_a person_n suffer_v not_o but_o here_o in_o the_o way_n of_o non-communion_n some_o who_o be_v good_a in_o the_o church_n suffer_v also_o many_o way_n and_o here_o be_v no_o difference_n make_v by_o you_o but_o all_o involve_a in_o the_o same_o condition_n 4._o in_o your_o way_n as_o if_o all_o sin_n be_v equal_a and_o all_o offender_n alike_o all_o be_v punish_v with_o the_o same_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n but_o it_o be_v not_o so_o in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n 5._o your_o submission_n and_o meeting_n be_v accidental_a uncertain_a free_a and_o at_o choice_n they_o may_v be_v and_o may_v not_o be_v there_o be_v many_o way_n to_o evade_v and_o put_v they_o off_o whereas_o the_o combination_n and_o consociation_n of_o church_n be_v fix_v set_v certain_a among_o your_o church_n in_o holland_n in_o three_o or_o four_o year_n there_o be_v but_o one_o act_n of_o submission_n and_o one_o meeting_n which_o be_v here_o relate_v in_o that_o difference_n between_o those_o two_o church_n at_o rotterdam_n there_o be_v no_o submission_n but_o each_o church_n blow_v the_o trumpet_n of_o defiance_n against_o each_o other_o and_o so_o about_o the_o difference_n at_o arnheim_n which_o the_o church_n can_v not_o end_v in_o so_o long_a a_o time_n no_o church_n interpose_v but_o in_o the_o classical_a government_n there_o be_v such_o a_o subordination_n and_o dependencie_n such_o state_v and_o fix_v meeting_n that_o if_o man_n shall_v escape_v one_o they_o do_v not_o all_o now_o in_o government_n and_o order_n there_o be_v a_o material_a difference_n between_o what_o man_n may_v do_v or_o not_o do_v and_o what_o they_o have_v tie_v themselves_o unto_o and_o must_v stand_v to_o in_o matter_n of_o civil_a difference_n refer_v to_o arbitratour_n it_o be_v one_o thing_n to_o submit_v to_o hear_v and_o to_o counsel_v upon_o it_o and_o another_o thing_n to_o be_v bind_v to_o stand_v to_o the_o determination_n there_o be_v many_o will_v do_v just_o and_o perform_v such_o trust_n while_o bind_v who_o leave_v at_o liberty_n will_v do_v just_o nothing_o now_o in_o your_o submission_n of_o church_n though_o you_o submit_v to_o a_o hear_n yet_o you_o do_v not_o submit_v to_o their_o determination_n unless_o it_o like_v you_o you_o do_v not_o submit_v to_o do_v what_o they_o enjoin_v but_o you_o will_v order_v yourselves_o according_a to_o their_o counsel_n as_o you_o see_v occasion_n now_o man_n be_v partial_a in_o their_o own_o cause_n and_o still_o their_o own_o judge_n what_o a_o remedy_n be_v this_o it_o be_v one_o thing_n when_o man_n know_v they_o be_v at_o liberty_n and_o may_v do_v or_o not_o do_v as_o they_o see_v good_a and_o another_o
thing_n when_o they_o must_v we_o find_v it_o so_o in_o all_o converse_v with_o man_n and_o good_a man_n be_v man_n there_o be_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o difference_n between_o authority_n and_o obedience_n and_o only_a persuasion_n on_o the_o one_o part_n and_o free_a will_n on_o the_o other_o no_o man_n will_v deny_v but_o in_o civil_a matter_n there_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n in_o such_o case_n be_v it_o in_o the_o power_n of_o particular_a member_n in_o your_o church_n to_o submit_v or_o not_o submit_v as_o they_o please_v there_o will_v be_v much_o ado_n to_o remedy_v any_o thing_n as_o will_v be_v betwixt_o church_n differ_v but_o particular_o for_o excommunication_n and_o non-communion_n excommunication_n may_v upon_o these_o ground_n awe_v man_n conscience_n more_o and_o be_v more_o effectual_a than_o non-communion_n 1._o because_o there_o be_v something_o positive_a in_o it_o it_o be_v a_o deliver_v of_o the_o offender_n up_o unto_o satan_n but_o your_o non-communion_n be_v a_o privative_a deprive_v only_o of_o communion_n now_o there_o be_v more_o efficacy_n in_o a_o positive_a then_o in_o a_o privative_a and_o negative_a second_o excommunication_n do_v deprive_v the_o person_n offend_v or_o the_o church_n of_o all_o communion_n among_o themselves_o as_o well_o as_o the_o communion_n of_o other_o church_n whereas_o the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n do_v but_o take_v other_o church_n off_o from_o communion_n with_o they_o but_o meddle_v not_o to_o debar_v they_o of_o communion_n among_o themselves_o in_o their_o own_o particular_a church_n but_o still_o they_o enjoy_v the_o word_n prayer_n sacrament_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v a_o great_a difference_n three_o yourselves_o make_v excommunication_n the_o great_a censure_n as_o appear_v by_o your_o own_o phrase_n call_v it_o a_o authoritative_a power_n etc._n etc._n and_o not_o practise_v that_o against_o other_o church_n whereas_o you_o do_v exercise_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n and_o we_o know_v it_o be_v the_o high_a censure_n in_o the_o church_n now_o certain_o the_o great_a censure_n and_o more_o dreadful_a punishment_n according_a to_o christ_n institution_n and_o intention_n be_v more_o effectual_a and_o powerful_a to_o awe_v and_o to_o remedy_v thing_n amiss_o then_o the_o lesser_a and_o low_a censure_n and_o so_o much_o for_o the_o comparison_n in_o the_o ecclesiastical_a proceed_n second_o in_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n power_n you_o grant_v that_o aught_o to_o back_n and_o assist_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n against_o church_n miscarry_v according_a to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o crime_n and_o you_o give_v more_o as_o you_o think_v to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n in_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a than_o the_o principle_n of_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yeâ—…ld_v your_o way_n of_o church_n proceed_v will_v be_v every_o way_n as_o effectual_a as_o the_o presbyterian_o i_o answer_v suppose_v all_o that_o you_o say_v of_o give_v so_o much_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n &c_n &c_n be_v true_a yet_o that_o make_v not_o your_o submission_n and_o non-communion_n so_o effectual_a a_o mean_n as_o excommunication_n for_o the_o question_n be_v about_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n and_o spiritual_a power_n and_o about_o spiritual_a mean_n and_o remedy_n for_o the_o conscience_n and_o soul_n and_o not_o about_o civil_a power_n and_o civil_a external_a mean_n and_o i_o will_v ask_v you_o this_o question_n upon_o this_o passage_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n either_o you_o give_v he_o a_o ecclesiastical_a spiritual_a power_n of_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n and_o mean_n to_o church_n miscarry_v or_o you_o do_v not_o if_o you_o give_v he_o not_o this_o first_o as_o i_o judge_v your_o principle_n will_v not_o allow_v you_o he_o be_v no_o churchofficer_n of_o christ_n â—…hurch_n but_o only_o christ_n give_v pastor_n teacher_n etc._n etc._n as_o necessary_a and_o sufficient_a for_o the_o government_n of_o his_o church_n than_o all_o you_o say_v of_o the_o magistrate_n help_v you_o not_o it_o be_v nothing_o to_o the_o question_n in_o hand_n but_o before_o i_o speak_v any_o more_o to_o that_o point_n that_o the_o magistrate_n power_n back_v your_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n be_v not_o comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n i_o must_v animadvert_v upon_o the_o passage_n itself_o both_o in_o the_o comparative_a of_o your_o say_n you_o think_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n than_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o upon_o the_o positive_a what_o you_o give_v they_o 1._o for_o the_o comparison_n it_o be_v a_o odious_a and_o dangerous_a insinuation_n to_o prepare_v king_n and_o parliament_n to_o reject_v the_o presbytery_n as_o not_o give_v so_o much_o to_o magistrate_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o church_n government_n as_o be_v their_o due_n and_o it_o be_v scandalous_a against_o scotland_n and_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n but_o what_o be_v the_o main_a â—…nd_n of_o it_o or_o what_o may_v be_v conceive_v the_o reason_n of_o your_o say_n you_o give_v so_o much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n and_o more_o than_o the_o presbyterian_o see_v man_n of_o your_o church_n principle_n be_v never_o guilty_a yet_o of_o give_v too_o much_o ecclesiastical_a power_n to_o magistrate_n you_o be_v the_o first_o independent_o and_o this_o be_v the_o first_o time_n that_o ever_o public_o you_o have_v express_v yourselves_o thus_o i_o judge_v you_o be_v politician_n politici_fw-la theologi_fw-la to_o flatter_v the_o parliament_n at_o this_o time_n the_o better_a to_o work_v your_o end_n for_o a_o toleration_n and_o to_o promote_v your_o churchway_n you_o write_v thus_o it_o be_v observe_v by_o learned_a man_n that_o among_o the_o principal_a attempt_n and_o policy_n of_o the_o remonstrant_n whereby_o they_o labour_v to_o bring_v the_o church_n of_o the_o netherlands_o into_o commotion_n and_o to_o obtain_v their_o own_o end_n this_o be_v a_o great_a one_o the_o cry_v up_o the_o power_n of_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n both_o by_o write_v of_o book_n of_o their_o great_a power_n in_o ecclesiastical_n and_o in_o their_o sermon_n every_o where_o and_o their_o asperse_v the_o orthodox_n minister_n and_o their_o lawful_a meeting_n and_o ecclesiastical_a action_n with_o the_o contrary_a and_o among_o many_o other_o particular_n of_o the_o great_a power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_n this_o be_v one_o that_o they_o do_v ascribe_v to_o the_o magistrate_n the_o ultimate_a and_o high_a jurisdiction_n and_o power_n of_o give_v judgement_n in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n reason_v that_o unto_o the_o magistrate_n alone_o immediate_o under_o christ_n do_v belong_v the_o judgement_n when_o controversy_n of_o faith_n do_v arise_v in_o the_o church_n and_o therefore_o after_o the_o arminian_n despair_v of_o prevail_v by_o the_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n they_o bring_v and_o remove_v their_o cause_n from_o the_o ecclesiastical_a cognizance_n to_o another_o court_n by_o their_o policy_n and_o artifices_fw-la make_v use_n of_o the_o authority_n of_o one_o or_o two_o chief_a man_n in_o place_n to_o work_v for_o they_o and_o that_o this_o new-way_n may_v have_v some_o colour_n and_o that_o so_o much_o the_o more_o easy_o the_o favour_n of_o many_o politician_n or_o at_o least_o a_o toleration_n may_v be_v procure_v for_o these_o arminian_n novelty_n there_o be_v a_o book_n set_v forth_o by_o uttenbogardus_fw-la de_fw-la jure_fw-la supremi_fw-la magistratus_fw-la in_o ecclesiasticis_fw-la many_o other_o of_o the_o arminian_n also_o sing_v the_o same_o song_n as_o episcopius_n print_v a_o disputation_n de_fw-fr jure_fw-la magistratus_fw-la circa_fw-la sacra_fw-la barlaeus_n grotius_n etc._n etc._n and_o beside_o all_o these_o there_o be_v a_o great_a number_n of_o book_n put_v forth_o in_o the_o vulgar_a and_o mother_n tongue_n of_o the_o power_n and_o authority_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o thus_o whilst_o the_o magistrate_n let_v the_o arminian_n alonâ—…_n and_o do_v nothing_o against_o they_o even_o till_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n in_o the_o year_n 1618._o they_o slatter_v they_o thus_o but_o after_o the_o synod_n of_o dort_n have_v determine_v against_o their_o opinion_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n be_v agaiâ—…t_v they_o than_o they_o lift_v up_o the_o heel_n and_o then_o they_o write_v book_n in_o a_o far_a other_o stile_n and_o in_o their_o apology_n that_o power_n which_o before_o they_o have_v so_o liberal_o measure_v out_o for_o they_o they_o do_v not_o a_o little_a limit_n and_o contract_n and_o offend_v as_o much_o in_o the_o defect_n give_v magistrate_n too_o little_a as_o before_o they_o have_v in_o the_o excess_n give_v they_o too_o much_o for_o the_o full_a proof_n of_o this_o i_o refer_v the_o reader_n to_o learned_a erant_fw-la voetius_fw-la select_a disputation_n concern_v that_o question_n penes_fw-la quos_fw-la sit_fw-la potestas_fw-la ecclesiastica_fw-la where_o he_o do_v at_o large_a relate_v this_o and_o their_o opinion_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n after_o the_o synod_n
complaint_n and_o appeal_n now_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o give_v the_o magistrate_n a_o power_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o ecclesiastical_a cause_n and_o business_n yea_o and_o definitive_a to_o namely_o a_o political_a objective_n consequent_a power_n which_o may_v be_v diverse_o exercise_v both_o ordinary_o and_o extraordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o in_o a_o good_a estate_n and_o in_o a_o church_n fall_v and_o corrupt_v voetius_fw-la in_o his_o disputation_n upon_o that_o question_n in_o who_o hand_n the_o ecclesiastical_a 68_o power_n be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o that_o question_n grant_v and_o give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n a_o public_a judicial_a power_n of_o judge_v not_o only_o with_o the_o judgement_n of_o knowledge_n but_o definitive_a in_o cause_n and_o matter_n ecclesiastical_a which_o judgement_n be_v consequent_a not_o antecedent_n because_o the_o ultimate_a disquisition_n be_v not_o in_o that_o whether_o that_o be_v true_a but_o whether_o they_o will_v by_o public_a authority_n maintain_v and_o execute_v that_o so_o *_o apollonius_n in_o his_o answer_n to_o vedelius_fw-la where_o he_o strong_o plead_v for_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o that_o point_n of_o ecclesiastical_a power_n yet_o give_v much_o to_o the_o magistrate_n ordinary_o in_o a_o church_n constitute_v and_o well_o reform_v in_o the_o point_n of_o this_o part_n of_o power_n and_o extraordinary_o in_o the_o state_n of_o a_o church_n corrupt_v and_o great_o disorder_v when_o the_o doctrine_n be_v corrupt_v and_o the_o sacrament_n contaminate_v with_o idolatrous_a rite_n and_o discipline_n turn_v into_o tyranny_n and_o when_o the_o ministry_n and_o all_o ecclesiastical_a meeting_n both_o inferior_a and_o superior_a conspire_v to_o oppress_v the_o truth_n of_o god_n and_o to_o establish_v tyranny_n in_o the_o church_n in_o such_o case_n the_o magistrate_n may_v do_v many_o thing_n beside_o the_o ordinary_a way_n now_o let_v i_o entreat_v you_o to_o consult_v the_o book_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o and_o especial_o apollonius_n answer_v to_o vedelius_fw-la of_o the_o several_a particular_n of_o the_o power_n of_o magistrate_n about_o the_o use_n and_o abuse_v of_o discipline_n in_o a_o constitute_v church_n beside_o the_o power_n give_v they_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n and_o in_o your_o reply_n to_o this_o answer_n satisfy_v i_o what_o you_o give_v more_o but_o let_v i_o tell_v you_o whatever_o power_n you_o five_o may_v have_v find_v out_o for_o the_o magistrate_n which_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v not_o suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v some_o new_a power_n may_v be_v like_o that_o devise_n of_o non-communion_n of_o church_n and_o protestation_n to_o all_o church_n that_o they_o may_v do_v the_o like_a yet_o your_o church_n may_v not_o grant_v it_o and_o so_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v be_v never_o the_o near_o the_o power_n you_o give_v the_o magistrate_n in_o the_o 17._o and_o 19_o pag._n be_v not_o yield_v by_o many_o of_o your_o own_o church_n whereof_o you_o be_v minister_n a_o gentleman_n a_o prime_a member_n of_o one_o of_o your_o church_n immediate_o after_o the_o come_n forth_o of_o your_o apologetical_a narration_n disclaim_v and_o renounce_v that_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n express_v by_o you_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o a_o minister_n a_o member_n of_o the_o assembly_n who_o relate_v it_o to_o i_o but_o what_o be_v it_o wherein_o you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n sure_o there_o be_v something_o you_o mean_v and_o aim_v at_o in_o it_o if_o we_o can_v find_v it_o out_o suffer_v i_o to_o guess_v at_o it_o and_o you_o shall_v see_v though_o you_o do_v not_o formal_o express_v so_o much_o yet_o i_o have_v some_o reason_n to_o judge_v so_o first_o do_v you_o not_o mean_v in_o this_o phrase_n the_o magistrate_n power_n to_o which_o we_o give_v as_o much_o and_o as_o we_o think_v more_o than_o the_o principle_n of_o presbyterial_a government_n will_v suffer_v they_o to_o yield_v that_o your_o churchway_n consist_v all_o of_o particular_a congregation_n and_o not_o grow_v into_o great_a body_n by_o combination_n and_o synod_n the_o magistrate_n power_n be_v great_a over_o you_o in_o that_o he_o may_v easy_o deal_v with_o you_o and_o dissolve_v you_o at_o pleasure_n but_o for_o a_o power_n to_o grow_v into_o so_o great_a a_o body_n a_o ecclesiastical_a power_n as_o large_a as_o the_o civil_a so_o combine_v this_o may_v be_v formidable_a and_o dangerous_a to_o the_o state_n and_o too_o great_a for_o the_o magistrate_n hereafter_o to_o rectify_v this_o have_v be_v by_o a_o active_a independent_a upon_o discourse_n of_o these_o point_n suggest_v to_o i_o and_o how_o far_o one_o of_o you_o have_v reason_v thus_o in_o the_o hear_n of_o many_o against_o presbyterial_a government_n and_o for_o congregationall_a you_o can_v remember_v or_o second_o do_v you_o understand_v by_o this_o phrase_n that_o when_o heresy_n schism_n or_o strange_a opinion_n be_v broach_v in_o your_o church_n and_o you_o can_v tell_v what_o to_o do_v with_o they_o nor_o how_o to_o suppress_v they_o nor_o how_o to_o have_v the_o person_n censure_v be_v so_o powerful_a in_o particular_a congregation_n whereof_o they_o be_v member_n in_o such_o a_o case_n you_o give_v the_o civil_a magistrate_n a_o power_n to_o question_v they_o for_o these_o heresy_n schism_n and_o to_o imprison_v banish_v etc._n etc._n if_o they_o do_v not_o revoke_v they_o new-england_n practise_v the_o way_n of_o independency_n and_o not_o have_v class_n synod_n that_o have_v authoritative_a power_n to_o call_v to_o account_v and_o censure_v such_o person_n be_v necessitate_v to_o make_v use_n of_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v the_o more_o to_o they_o a_o power_n of_o question_v for_o doctrine_n and_o judge_v of_o error_n and_o punish_v with_o imprisonment_n banishment_n and_o they_o find_v out_o a_o pretty_a fine_a distinction_n to_o deceive_v themselves_o with_o and_o to_o salve_v the_o contrariety_n of_o this_o practice_n to_o some_o other_o principle_n that_o the_o magistrate_n question_v and_o punish_v for_o these_o opinion_n and_o error_n which_o now_o for_o want_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n and_o censure_n they_o know_v not_o what_o to_o do_v with_o not_o as_o heresy_n and_o such_o opinion_n but_o as_o breach_n of_o the_o civil_a peace_n and_o disturbance_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n which_o distinction_n if_o the_o parliament_n will_v have_v learn_v from_o you_o and_o proceed_v upon_o they_o may_v long_o ago_o have_v put_v down_o all_o your_o church_n and_o congregation_n and_o just_o have_v deal_v with_o you_o as_o the_o magistrate_n in_o new-england_n do_v with_o mr_n williams_n and_o the_o antinomian_o familist_n and_o anabaptist_n there_o and_o yet_o have_v say_v they_o punish_v you_o not_o for_o your_o conscience_n nor_o because_o of_o such_o opinion_n but_o because_o your_o opinion_n way_n and_o practice_n be_v a_o occasion_n of_o much_o hurt_n to_o the_o commonwealth_n a_o breach_n of_o civil_a peace_n a_o great_a cause_n of_o many_o people_n sit_v so_o loose_a from_o the_o parliament_n a_o great_a hindrance_n to_o the_o reformation_n and_o a_o ground_n of_o much_o distraction_n to_o the_o public_a and_o of_o strengthen_v the_o enemy_n whereas_o the_o presbyterian_o give_v the_o power_n in_o case_n of_o heresy_n error_n etc._n etc._n that_o be_v not_o remedy_v in_o the_o particular_a congregation_n to_o class_n synod_n assembly_n to_o question_v convince_v judge_v of_o censure_n and_o to_o apply_v spiritual_a remedy_n proper_a to_o spiritual_a disease_n which_o i_o be_o confident_a of_o have_v such_o be_v in_o new-england_n in_o the_o presbyterial_a way_n there_o have_v never_o be_v so_o many_o imprison_v banish_v for_o error_n nor_o the_o magistrate_n put_v upon_o that_o distinction_n or_o three_o be_v it_o that_o you_o do_v give_v a_o power_n to_o the_o magistrate_n in_o ecclesiastical_a thing_n of_o the_o ultimate_a determination_n of_o matter_n pure_o ecclesiastical_a which_o the_o presbyterian_o principle_n do_v not_o as_o now_o in_o matter_n of_o doctrine_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o scandal_n and_o in_o matter_n of_o censure_n excommunication_n deposition_n etc._n etc._n which_o be_v bring_v before_o and_o have_v pass_v in_o ecclesiastical_a assembly_n to_o appeal_v from_o they_o to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n and_o to_o carry_v cause_n from_o thence_o to_o civil_a court_n to_o repeal_v and_o revoke_v they_o your_o word_n and_o passage_n about_o the_o magistrate_n power_n imply_v this_o and_o i_o find_v that_o many_o quick_a sight_a man_n as_o the_o walachrian_a classis_fw-la nay_o a_o whole_a synod_n after_o they_o in_o their_o late_a letter_n to_o the_o assembly_n apprehend_v you_o so_o and_o therefore_o i_o may_v upon_o good_a ground_n judge_v beside_o the_o two_o former_a that_o you_o aim_v at_o this_o three_o in_o say_v you_o give_v more_o to_o the_o magistrate_n power_n then_o the_o presbyterian_o
to_o their_o minister_n and_o pastor_n with_o other_o such_o like_a 8._o but_o in_o ecclesiastical_a matter_n and_o difference_n upon_o the_o magistrate_n interpose_v his_o power_n what_o be_v it_o you_o will_v submit_v unto_o and_o what_o will_v you_o allow_v he_o to_o do_v and_o what_o be_v that_o power_n you_o will_v give_v he_o in_o back_v the_o sentence_n of_o non-communion_n upon_o his_o judgement_n of_o the_o cause_n and_o how_o far_o and_o in_o what_o will_v you_o obey_v he_o that_o so_o we_o may_v understand_v how_o this_o civil_a power_n be_v intend_v by_o you_o for_o a_o remedy_n and_o help_v in_o church_n and_o between_o church_n for_o instance_n will_v you_o submit_v not_o to_o gather_v church_n nor_o set_v up_o assembly_n withoâ—…â—…is_o leave_v and_o upon_o complaint_n of_o the_o many_o mischief_n and_o difference_n occasion_v thereupon_o will_v you_o upon_o his_o hear_v both_o side_n and_o judge_v that_o those_o who_o be_v gather_v shall_v be_v dissolve_v dissolve_v they_o and_o not_o meet_v in_o those_o way_n any_o more_o will_v you_o upon_o some_o member_n complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n of_o some_o minister_n or_o minister_n in_o their_o church_n for_o preach_v erroneous_a and_o unprofitable_a doctrine_n mere_a novelty_n subtlety_n and_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o particular_a cognizance_n and_o examination_n of_o such_o cause_n judge_v that_o he_o shall_v preach_v no_o more_o will_v the_o minister_n forbear_v upon_o it_o or_o the_o church_n to_o hear_v he_o in_o case_n the_o minister_n will_v not_o yield_v will_v the_o church_n now_o go_v choose_v a_o new_a and_o orthodox_n minister_n upon_o it_o or_o in_o case_n a_o member_n or_o more_o be_v unjust_o excommunicate_v and_o they_o complain_v to_o the_o magistrate_n who_o call_v the_o church_n to_o account_v and_o hear_v both_o side_n shall_v judge_v on_o the_o complaiants_n side_n and_o now_o order_v the_o church_n to_o absolve_v he_o and_o order_v they_o to_o confess_v their_o sin_n public_o and_o appoint_v they_o to_o keep_v a_o day_n of_o humiliation_n for_o it_o and_o order_v they_o to_o give_v he_o such_o a_o sum_n of_o money_n for_o the_o wrong_n trouble_n and_o loss_n of_o his_o time_n in_o follow_v the_o business_n against_o they_o will_v the_o church_n now_o submit_v to_o do_v all_o this_o yea_o or_o no_o what_o say_v you_o to_o these_o and_o the_o like_a case_n now_o i_o ask_v you_o this_o in_o the_o close_a because_o you_o pretend_v a_o great_a deal_n of_o submission_n to_o the_o magistrate_n and_o to_o give_v he_o much_o power_n which_o though_o you_o do_v grant_v yet_o for_o the_o many_o reason_n and_o ground_n already_o specify_v this_o will_v not_o countervail_v the_o way_n of_o the_o presbyterian_o in_o their_o spiritual_a censure_n by_o presbyter_n and_o synod_n whether_o you_o clear_o and_o plain_o allow_v this_o to_o the_o magistrate_n because_o i_o find_v in_o manuscript_n and_o hear_v that_o in_o sermon_n by_o man_n of_o your_o churchway_n the_o contrary_a be_v public_o preach_v and_o hold_v as_o for_o example_n in_o that_o treatise_n about_o a_o church_n which_o go_v under_o one_o of_o your_o name_n there_o be_v this_o passage_n with_o more_o to_o that_o purpose_n the_o saint_n need_v not_o expect_v their_o power_n or_o leave_v for_o to_o gather_v together_o so_o as_o without_o it_o such_o a_o combination_n be_v unlawful_a nor_o shall_v they_o forbear_v it_o out_o of_o conscience_n of_o the_o magistrate_n prohibition_n indeed_o if_o the_o magistrate_n shall_v force_v or_o compel_v they_o to_o forbear_v or_o persecute_v they_o they_o may_v forbear_v actual_a assemble_v act._n 8._o 1._o not_o because_o the_o magistrate_n forbid_v it_o but_o in_o mercy_n to_o themselves_o and_o indeed_o about_o a_o church_n christian_n magistrate_n have_v no_o more_o power_n then_o heathen_a magistrate_n have_v so_o that_o this_o be_v speak_v by_o you_o where_o magistrate_n be_v christian_n and_o where_o church_n be_v already_o settle_v and_o add_v to_o this_o that_o m._n s._n in_o his_o reply_n in_o defence_n of_o your_o apology_n be_v against_o coercive_a and_o coactive_a power_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n and_o that_o you_o all_o hold_v a_o toleration_n and_o that_o the_o magistrate_n ought_v not_o to_o hinder_v man_n or_o punish_v they_o for_o the_o matter_n of_o their_o conscience_n how_o then_o notwithstanding_o all_o your_o discourse_n of_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n which_o add_v to_o non-communion_n will_v be_v a_o effectual_a mean_n to_o relieve_v person_n injure_v to_o reduce_v church_n and_o person_n go_v in_o schism_n and_o error_n shall_v person_n injure_v be_v remedy_v or_o church_n and_o person_n reduce_v for_o suppose_v the_o person_n or_o church_n that_o now_o fall_v into_o such_o error_n and_o schism_n will_v pretend_v nay_o it_o be_v so_o real_o that_o they_o in_o their_o conscience_n hold_v error_n for_o truth_n and_o thereupon_o withdraw_v from_o such_o church_n to_o other_o nay_o suppose_v those_o who_o now_o receive_v these_o new_a truth_n shall_v cast_v out_o of_o their_o fellowship_n and_o excommunicate_v some_o for_o hold_v otherwise_o as_o for_o instance_n a_o church_n fall_v into_o antinomianisme_n shall_v censure_v some_o of_o their_o member_n that_o remain_v orthodox_n for_o legal_a christian_n and_o for_o be_v enemy_n to_o freegrace_n and_o shall_v judge_v themselves_o bind_v to_o do_v so_o in_o these_o and_o such_o like_a case_n what_o remedy_n be_v there_o for_o miscarry_v church_n by_o all_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n you_o pretend_v to_o give_v to_o he_o but_o this_o be_v bring_v in_o here_o by_o you_o and_o give_v to_o he_o to_o put_v of_o that_o strong_a argument_n against_o your_o way_n and_o that_o you_o may_v have_v something_o for_o present_a to_o blind_v the_o eye_n and_o stop_v the_o mouth_n of_o many_o that_o look_v no_o further_o that_o it_o may_v serve_v your_o turn_n at_o such_o a_o straight_o whereas_o upon_o other_o principle_n you_o deny_v the_o magistrate_n this_o when_o it_o shall_v come_v to_o be_v a_o matter_n of_o conscience_n and_o now_o by_o all_o the_o several_a particular_n under_o this_o five_o head_n the_o understand_a reader_n may_v observe_v that_o not_o only_o in_o many_o respect_v your_o non-communion_n and_o magistrate_n power_n be_v not_o a_o remedy_n comparable_a to_o the_o presbyterian_a way_n not_o proper_a nor_o to_o the_o nature_n of_o the_o offence_n and_o thing_n in_o question_n a_o way_n in_o stead_n of_o bring_v thing_n to_o a_o end_n redress_v and_o mend_v matter_n amiss_o that_o will_v be_v but_o the_o begin_n of_o more_o strife_n and_o make_v more_o difference_n and_o evil_n then_o either_o it_o sinde_n or_o can_v heal_v the_o mother_n and_o nurse_n of_o confusion_n disorder_n and_o endless_a contention_n but_o also_o that_o all_o the_o power_n here_o pretend_v to_o be_v give_v to_o the_o magistrate_n upon_o examination_n be_v no_o such_o matter_n nor_o will_v not_o amount_v to_o make_v good_a the_o end_n propound_v whereas_o the_o presbyterial_a government_n here_o scandalize_v as_o either_o whole_o inconsistent_a with_o this_o form_n of_o civil_a government_n or_o else_o not_o give_v it_o its_o due_a will_v be_v find_v by_o its_o principle_n not_o only_o to_o have_v powerful_a spiritual_a remedy_n for_o all_o spiritual_a evil_n of_o the_o church_n but_o will_v be_v find_v in_o many_o respect_n to_o make_v use_n of_o and_o to_o give_v honour_n and_o power_n to_o the_o civil_a magistrate_n as_o a_o nurse_n father_n from_o first_o to_o last_o even_o in_o the_o ordinary_a way_n of_o the_o order_n and_o government_n of_o the_o church_n beyond_o you_o beside_o what_o they_o give_v more_o in_o extraordinary_a case_n in_o a_o church_n miserable_o corrupt_v disorder_a etc._n etc._n of_o which_o the_o reader_n may_v read_v at_o large_a in_o apollonius_n who_o be_v a_o great_a presbyterian_a cap._n 2._o and_o so_o learned_a 83._o zanchius_n in_o his_o tractate_n de_fw-fr magistratis_n show_v it_o be_v in_o the_o power_n of_o the_o magistrate_n not_o to_o suffer_v heretic_n nor_o erroneous_a person_n to_o preach_v and_o he_o give_v he_o coactive_a punitive_a power_n to_o cut_v they_o off_o beza_n a_o great_a presbyterian_a in_o his_o epistle_n and_o other_o write_n in_o matter_n of_o religion_n do_v not_o exclude_v the_o magistrate_n but_o give_v he_o that_o power_n in_o some_o thing_n which_o you_o deny_v but_o beside_o that_o power_n they_o give_v the_o magistrate_n they_o stand_v for_o as_o needful_a in_o the_o church_n class_n and_o synod_n for_o the_o government_n of_o it_o zanchy_a show_v that_o discipline_n can_v 713._o take_v place_n where_o the_o minister_n never_o meet_v together_o the_o meâ—…ting_n of_o minister_n and_o ecclesiastical_a synod_n we_o judge_v most_o necessary_a as_o no_o polity_n commonwealth_n or_o kingdom_n can_v consist_v without_o their_o meeting_n senate_n and_o counsel_n
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application_n be_v obvious_a you_o desert_v the_o cause_n and_o in_o as_o much_o as_o in_o you_o lay_v hazard_v all_o and_o yet_o be_v not_o content_a with_o this_o to_o come_v in_o upon_o the_o victory_n and_o divide_v the_o spoil_n with_o those_o who_o help_v to_o win_v the_o field_n to_o enjoy_v the_o prime_a lecture_n and_o place_n in_o and_o near_o the_o city_n both_o of_o note_n and_o profit_n with_o all_o respect_n and_o countenance_n from_o parliament_n and_o city_n but_o you_o will_v have_v peculiar_o and_o enjoy_v such_o a_o way_n as_o shall_v shut_v out_o all_o in_o comparison_n a_o unreasonable_a request_n and_o a_o strange_a instance_n for_o all_o posterity_n if_o it_o shall_v be_v grant_v for_o our_o part_n many_o of_o we_o who_o bear_v the_o heat_n of_o the_o day_n stand_v to_o it_o and_o venture_v break_v and_o undo_v many_o time_n over_o request_v no_o such_o favour_n nor_o exemption_n but_o to_o take_v our_o lot_n in_o common_a with_o the_o kingdom_n and_o minister_n in_o thing_n establish_v and_o i_o know_v no_o reason_n that_o upon_o any_o consideration_n either_o extrinsicall_a or_o intrinsicall_a you_o shall_v be_v consider_v above_o the_o godly_a minister_n of_o the_o church_n of_o england_n i_o know_v and_o can_v give_v many_o to_o the_o contrary_a but_o beside_o that_o i_o have_v before_o full_o speak_v more_o than_o once_o how_o little_a there_o be_v in_o this_o argument_n of_o you_o so_o often_o inculcate_v of_o exile_n and_o suffer_v to_o exile_n the_o cause_n here_o render_v by_o you_o of_o your_o suffer_v even_o to_o exile_n namely_o for_o what_o the_o kingdom_n itself_o now_o suffer_v in_o the_o endeavour_n to_o cast_v out_o be_v not_o true_a nor_o proper_a for_o however_o the_o kingdom_n now_o suffer_v for_o cast_v out_o the_o hierarchy_n and_o some_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o for_o a_o reformation_n according_a to_o the_o word_n of_o god_n and_o the_o example_n of_o the_o best_a reform_a church_n yet_o your_o suffering_n unto_o exile_n be_v not_o for_o that_o for_o which_o the_o non-conformists'_a more_o forward_o than_o you_o suffer_v but_o your_o leave_v the_o kingdom_n be_v to_o enjoy_v the_o church_n way_n without_o which_o we_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o be_v content_v though_o ceremony_n episcopacy_n and_o lyturgie_n be_v now_o cast_v out_o by_o the_o kingdom_n as_o the_o fruit_n of_o all_o their_o suffering_n but_o if_o presbytery_n be_v settle_v and_o independency_n may_v not_o be_v tolerate_v you_o will_v go_v away_o the_o second_o time_n and_o may_v be_v call_v that_o exile_n and_o banishment_n too_o as_o for_o your_o endure_v in_o these_o present_a time_n and_o since_o the_o change_n of_o they_o that_o which_o to_o your_o spirit_n be_v no_o less_o grievous_a the_o opposition_n and_o reproach_n of_o good_a man_n by_o which_o you_o will_v further_o persuade_v and_o move_v the_o parliament_n to_o allow_v you_o a_o toleration_n let_v i_o mind_n you_o that_o i_o believe_v in_o no_o age_n five_o man_n practise_v and_o act_v as_o you_o have_v do_v contrary_a to_o the_o judgement_n of_o all_o the_o church_n and_o of_o the_o minister_n your_o brethren_n and_o that_o to_o the_o sensible_a disadvantage_n of_o the_o public_a reformation_n ever_o meet_v with_o less_o opposition_n and_o contradiction_n of_o good_a man_n and_o as_o for_o reproach_n none_o at_o all_o i_o will_v not_o reiterate_v what_o i_o have_v former_o express_v in_o pag._n 226_o 227._o but_o it_o be_v beyond_o all_o precedent_n the_o silence_n compliance_n respect_n fair_a carriage_n you_o have_v be_v entertain_v with_o from_o the_o minister_n and_o good_a man_n neither_o luther_n that_o eminent_a servant_n of_o god_n and_o excellent_a instrument_n nor_o other_o can_v find_v the_o like_a in_o their_o time_n from_o the_o minister_n differ_v from_o they_o and_o therefore_o the_o complaint_n be_v very_o groundless_a and_o to_o
issue_n and_o all_o be_v resolve_v into_o the_o body_n of_o the_o congregation_n and_o their_o power_n from_o first_o to_o last_o among_o the_o apologist_n as_o well_o as_o among_o the_o brownist_n though_o here_o it_o be_v carry_v in_o a_o fair_a way_n as_o fine_a wit_n must_v do_v and_o that_o they_o may_v have_v something_o to_o say_v wherein_o they_o be_v not_o brownist_n but_o of_o this_o the_o reader_n may_v see_v more_o in_o this_o answer_n page_n 204_o 205_o 206._o 8._o the_o presbyterial_a way_n the_o order_n and_o governmeâ—…_n of_o the_o reform_a reason_n church_n have_v be_v countenance_v from_o heaven_n and_o bless_v from_o above_o with_o the_o preservation_n of_o the_o truth_n and_o unity_n of_o religion_n against_o heresy_n and_o error_n in_o doctrine_n idolatry_n and_o corruption_n in_o worship_n and_o all_o sort_n of_o sect_n and_o â—…chisme_n it_o have_v be_v free_a of_o those_o mischief_n and_o evil_n of_o error_n and_o division_n which_o the_o independent_a church_n have_v swarm_v with_o and_o that_o through_o a_o long_a tract_n of_o time_n and_o the_o experience_n of_o almost_o a_o hundred_o year_n together_o in_o reform_a church_n where_o this_o government_n have_v be_v set_v up_o and_o have_v have_v its_o free_a way_n and_o exercise_v even_o where_o it_o have_v want_v the_o advantage_n of_o the_o magistrate_n be_v a_o member_n of_o the_o church_n and_o have_v have_v many_o disadvantage_n in_o regard_n of_o the_o spirit_n and_o disposition_n of_o the_o people_n with_o many_o temptation_n to_o error_n yet_o it_o have_v in_o those_o place_n keep_v out_o error_n and_o schism_n preserve_v purity_n of_o doctrine_n and_o peace_n for_o example_n in_o the_o church_n of_o france_n it_o be_v evident_a by_o many_o year_n experience_n though_o their_o prince_n be_v popish_a and_o they_o live_v in_o the_o midst_n of_o papist_n yet_o by_o god_n blessing_n upon_o their_o government_n and_o order_n their_o church_n have_v be_v and_o be_v pure_a in_o doctrine_n few_o or_o none_o fall_v to_o popery_n arminianism_n or_o to_o sect_n and_o schâ—…smes_n and_o when_o any_o error_n do_v arise_v among_o they_o yet_o by_o mean_n of_o that_o government_n they_o be_v epiâ—…_n soon_o suppress_v and_o prevent_v from_o spread_v it_o be_v the_o observation_n of_o beza_n in_o his_o time_n of_o the_o french_a church_n though_o france_n be_v grievous_o afflict_v and_o oppress_v by_o many_o yet_o for_o that_o which_o concern_v religion_n it_o be_v free_a from_o all_o trouble_n and_o stir_v and_o yet_o notwithstanding_o there_o be_v nothing_o want_v of_o all_o those_o thing_n by_o which_o satan_n may_v easy_o draw_v and_o move_v the_o french_a to_o all_o kind_n of_o trouble_n for_o example_n a_o inbred_a natural_a lightness_n in_o that_o nation_n wit_n very_o ready_a for_o subtlety_n and_o â—…iceties_n the_o mind_n of_o the_o magistrate_n intent_n also_o upon_o it_o that_o all_o manner_n of_o way_n the_o christian_a church_n may_v destroy_v themselves_o with_o their_o inward_a dissension_n notwithstanding_o all_o this_o no_o strength_n of_o the_o adversary_n hitherto_o no_o not_o in_o the_o midst_n of_o all_o the_o tempest_n of_o war_n have_v be_v able_a to_o bear_v through_o the_o most_o strong_a buâ—…warke_n and_o wall_n of_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n for_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n i_o have_v hear_v it_o often_o and_o that_o from_o good_a hand_n that_o during_o the_o free_a use_n and_o exercise_v of_o presbyterial_a government_n there_o never_o any_o heresy_n or_o schism_n take_v the_o three_o man_n but_o by_o mean_n of_o that_o government_n it_o have_v be_v pull_v up_o at_o first_o and_o either_o the_o particular_a person_n broach_v the_o error_n recover_v or_o however_o prevent_v before_o three_o have_v be_v infect_v with_o it_o conquiescamâ—…_n beza_n in_o his_o first_o epistle_n give_v a_o notable_a testimony_n to_o this_o government_n by_o the_o blessing_n of_o god_n upon_o it_o in_o the_o city_n of_o geneva_n geneva_n be_v it_o speak_v without_o offence_n have_v rather_o escape_v then_o overcome_v all_o the_o inward_a tempest_n against_o religion_n so_o great_a as_o no_o city_n perhaps_o under_o heaven_n have_v do_v the_o like_a it_o never_o yet_o feel_v any_o difference_n nor_o contention_n of_o the_o pastor_n among_o themselves_o in_o point_n of_o doctrine_n it_o be_v free_a from_o the_o fury_n of_o the_o anabaptist_n the_o contagion_n of_o the_o libertine_n the_o blasphemy_n of_o servetian_o a_o city_n otherwise_o open_a to_o all_o stranger_n and_o comer_n and_o for_o that_o cause_n very_o fit_a and_o subject_a to_o the_o wile_n of_o satan_n but_o true_o it_o owe_v all_o this_o by_o god_n blessing_n to_o the_o ecclesiastical_a discipline_n due_o and_o diligent_o observe_v which_o also_o now_o cause_v that_o all_o sort_n almost_o out_o of_o all_o nation_n under_o heaven_n there_o gather_v together_o in_o peace_n and_o in_o true_a liberty_n of_o conscience_n do_v willing_o accord_v together_o the_o commissioner_n of_o the_o church_n of_o scotland_n tell_v we_o that_o this_o 3._o government_n have_v make_v the_o church_n of_o christ_n terrible_a as_o a_o army_n with_o banner_n and_o like_o a_o strong_a and_o fence_a city_n against_o which_o the_o adversary_n have_v despair_v to_o prevail_v but_o by_o make_v a_o breach_n in_o this_o wall_n and_o where_o they_o have_v gain_v ground_n or_o get_v any_o advantage_n either_o the_o wall_n have_v not_o be_v build_v or_o be_v build_v have_v be_v break_v down_o or_o not_o vigilant_o keep_v by_o the_o watchman_n but_o there_o will_v be_v object_v against_o this_o a_o passage_n late_o print_v in_o a_o book_n of_o mr_n simpson_n that_o there_o have_v be_v as_o great_a defection_n anatomisâ—…d_n both_o of_o minister_n and_o people_n unto_o error_n under_o presbyterial_a government_n as_o under_o any_o other_o as_o it_o be_v clear_a in_o the_o low-countries_n where_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n papist_n socinian_o i_o have_v instance_a in_o several_a reform_a church_n and_o show_v god_n blessing_n upon_o presbyterial_a government_n here_o be_v only_o one_o instance_n among_o all_o the_o reform_a church_n bring_v against_o it_o and_o to_o that_o i_o shall_v give_v these_o three_o answer_n though_o the_o church_n in_o the_o low-countries_n be_v presbyterial_a yet_o withal_o there_o be_v a_o toleration_n of_o other_o church_n and_o government_n there_o which_o be_v one_o of_o the_o cause_n of_o it_o and_o hinder_v presbyterial_a government_n a_o toleration_n will_v spoil_v any_o church_n and_o government_n if_o presbyterial_a government_n be_v settle_v and_o a_o toleration_n give_v in_o this_o land_n that_o will_v mar_v all_o so_o that_o the_o parliament_n may_v be_v please_v to_o take_v notice_n by_o this_o and_o observe_v the_o difference_n between_o those_o church_n which_o have_v no_o toleration_n as_o scotland_n geneva_n and_o the_o low-countries_n which_o grant_v a_o toleration_n the_o one_o be_v pure_a in_o doctrine_n etc._n etc._n the_o other_o make_v minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n socinian_o etc._n etc._n 2_o answ._n there_o be_v another_o reason_n why_o it_o may_v so_o fall_v out_o in_o the_o low-countries_n because_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v not_o its_o free_a course_n there_o in_o synod_n but_o it_o be_v much_o disturb_v over_o it_o be_v in_o france_n geneva_n scotland_n whereas_o by_o their_o canon_n and_o constitution_n in_o the_o netherlands_o there_o shall_v be_v a_o national_n synod_n once_o in_o three_o year_n they_o have_v not_o nor_o can_v procure_v one_o in_o twenty_o year_n and_o upward_o and_o whereas_o provincial_n synod_n shall_v be_v yearly_o they_o have_v they_o in_o some_o province_n but_o once_o in_o five_o and_o seven_o year_n beside_o there_o be_v other_o disturbance_n in_o presbyterial_a government_n which_o hinder_v the_o free_a course_n of_o it_o in_o holland_n many_o encroachment_n be_v make_v upon_o the_o right_n of_o their_o church_n due_a to_o they_o by_o virtue_n of_o their_o discipline_n and_o heretofore_o establish_v in_o a_o word_n that_o anabaptisticall_a and_o familisticall_a spirit_n in_o many_o and_o that_o corrupt_a spirit_n and_o principle_n in_o other_o with_o those_o principle_n of_o toleration_n do_v much_o check_n and_o stop_v presbyterial_a government_n from_o have_v its_o perfect_a work_n and_o bring_v forth_o its_o full_a effect_n the_o true_a reason_n of_o so_o many_o minister_n and_o people_n turn_v arminian_n and_o socinian_o in_o the_o low-countries_n be_v the_o want_n of_o synod_n which_o arminius_n and_o his_o follower_n always_o decline_v and_o by_o flatter_v the_o magistrate_n keep_v off_o for_o many_o year_n in_o which_o time_n so_o many_o fell_a whereas_o if_o presbyterial_a government_n have_v have_v its_o course_n and_o a_o national_n synod_n have_v be_v call_v yea_o but_o a_o provincial_n for_o the_o arminian_n to_o have_v answer_v in_o at_o first_o before_o it_o have_v so_o much_o