Selected quad for the lemma: cause_n

Word A	Word B	Word C	Word D	Occurrence	Frequency Band	MI	MI Band	Prominent
cause_n	church_n	communion_n	separate_v	1,943	5	9.5273	5	true

Text snippets containing the quad

ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A78034	Vindiciæ veritatis: truth vindicated against calumny. In a briefe answer to Dr. Bastwicks two late books, entituled, Independency not Gods ordinance, with the second part, styled the postscript, &c. / By Henry Burton, one of his quondam-fellow-sufferers.	Burton, Henry, 1578-1648.	1645 (1645)	Wing B6177; Thomason E302_13; ESTC R200279	28,751	40

of admittance into Church-fellowship could stand with the deniall but necessarily implies a confession of Christs Kingly office in its highest degree Pag. 116. You tell us that our gathering of Churches hath no example in Scripture and as for Christs Disciples they were all sent to gather in the lost sheep of the house of Israel they went not to gather in converted amongst converted men c. Now wee cannot have a more pregnant and more warrantable example in all Scripture then this which you here alledge against us Christs Disciples gathered Christian Churches out of the Church of the Jews nor can you deny but the Jews were a Church when the Disciples gathered churches out of it Those Churches in Judea Gal. 1. 22. were gathered out of the Church of the Jewes and that Church of the Jewes generally believed that the Messias or Christ was to come And if they were a Church when many being converted were gathered out of it then much more Churches may be gathered out of Nations or Kingdomes of the world though for their generall profession of Christianity every such Nation or Kingdome be respectively called a church though the new Testament knowes no such church and then not of divine constitution as that of the Jews was even when churches Christian were gathered out of it And brother prove unto us that such as you call a Nationall Church is a church of divine institution shew us an example of a Nationall Church in all the new Testament otherwise you do but weave the Spiders web But wee say you gather converted men from among converted men and so pick out of others folds and flocks the best and fattest sheep This you do familiarly cast in our dish and yet it is never the fatter Now in this wee may justly demand of you to prove that those whom you call converted men from among whom wee gather churches be indeed so converted as they should be when as yet they come not up close to the rule of Reformation Gods Word as thereby to endeavour the setting up of Christ without waiting on men as without whom Gods Word is not a sufficient rule and as on whom wee must necessarily depend for the form and law of Reformation And yet wee deny not but many such may be godly though otherwise they are not as yet throughly convinced of this kingly government of Christ which we endeavour after nay let me go a little higher for as much as this is an undeniable yea and prime principle in Divinity that the Scripture is the only rule of faith and of worship and Church-government and this rule is no Monopoly to one man but that all and every man hath a power and priviledge to repair to this Law and Testimony to do all things according to this Word And seeing wee have all bound our selves by solemn Covenant to reform our selves and those under our charge according to the Word of God yea and every one to go before other in this Reformation tell mee now brother were it not a matter worth the while for our reverend and learned Assembly seriously to take it into debate whether the generall tying up of men to wait necessarily on the Synod for its finall resolution about Church-government be not an usurpation upon our Christian liberty and a diminution at least of the authority and sufficiency of Scripture and so consequently be not a trenching upon a fundamentall heresie as also an inhibition restraining every man in his place Ministers Masters c. from setting upon the work of Reformation and so necessitating a violation of our Covenant or a dangerous retarding of the work bringing in a sleepy carelesnesse upon mens spirits to inquire at Gods Oracle and so preparing a way for blind obedience I leave to the consideration of the wisest But in the interim to return to your Converts Do you hold all them to be converts from among whom churches are gathered Do you not allow of a difference to be put Are there not a number of both ignorant and scandalous that are not fit to come to the Lords Table See the Directory Or do you take the greatest number in England to be godly and truly converted Or are there not trow you many Parishes in England where perhaps but a few true converts are to be found And how few in comparison truly godly and faithfull Ministers are to be found for every Parish under who●e Pastorall charge two or three sheep may safely and comfortably feed among so many Goats yea perhaps Wolves Or do you make every parish to be a Church You may do well herein to deal plainly with us whether you would have so many inhabitants as are in every Parish to be so many communicants For so it seems you would have it For pag. 117. you say in the Churches of Corinth Galatia Colosse were many that walked disorderly taught false doctrine and heresies and made Schismes yet the Apostles did not bid the Christians to separate themselves from the communion and assemblies of the Saints and from the Ordinances for these mens causes c. But you may know those churches though in part accidentally corrupt yet were essentially and in their originall constitution pure and holy churches and so were never your Parochiall churches they never had a right divine constitution but meerly humane and politicall And therefore all your argumentation a dispari falls to ground and beats it self into a meer spume But pag. 118. you plead such Ministers and Churches to be true where the truth of Christ is preached received and professed If you mean the whole truth of Christ it is well But do not you know that there are three speciall visible marks of a true visible Church The Gospel purely preached the Sacraments duly administred and Discipline rightly practised all which marks together the Church of England for ought I know is yet to seek For to speak nothing here of the materialls of a true particular visible Church as visible Saints nor of the form of it so many members united into one Church-body and fellowship according to the Gospel which you can handly shew us in any of your Parochiall Congregations I will only ask you What particular visible Church you are a member of you may choose what Parish you please in England Next I ask you What Discipline you have in that your church and whether a man complaining of you to your Congregation or to your Minister for wrongs done by you and for your scandalous walking he shall find so much Discipline there as to convent you before them and justly charging you for walking scandalously to the great offence and shame of the very name of Christian Religion you shall thereupon be brought under Ecclesiasticall censure so as to have the scandall removed and the offence satisfied Good now tell me what church either Parochiall or Classicall I should go unto For suppose I have a complaint against you for which I demand

as upon a foundation you state your Question And if the foundation be not sure the superstructure cannot be secure Now Brother doe you set these two Termes Dependent and Independent at such odds as if there were a great gulfe betweene them never to come together and become one You hold of Dependent onely we hold not onely of Independent but Dependent also I shall make this cleare Your Church Dependent is so called in a two-fold relation First Because it depends for its forme of Government upon the lawes of civill States and so as the Cha●●leon receives impressions of sundry formes changeable according to the present condition of the Civill Power whether Protestant or Papist Christian or Antichristian as our Brother hath set forth so as by this meanes Christs Church and Kingdome his Spouse that woman clothed with the Sunne and having on her head a crowne of twelve starres and the Moone under her feete should her selfe be turned into the Moone as being subject to continuall changes Secondly Because your Church Dependent depends necessarily upon a combination of Presbyters of many Churches as Councels Synods Assemblies Classes without whose counsell say you nothing is to be done in any particular Church of which more hereafter On the other side The Churches which you call Independent are also Dependent First They are not otherwise Independent then first that they are not nor ought in respect of Doctrine Discipline Worship Church-Government to depend upon humane Lawes Canons Decrees Customes but onely upon Christ and his Lawes as wherein they assert and hold forth Christs Kingly Office and Government over them and doe affirme that to set up humane formes of worship and Church-Government unto which the consciences and soules of Gods people must necessarily conforme and be subject is a dethroning of the Lord Jesus Christ and a denying him to be the onely King of his Church Secondly Independent in this respect because every particular visible Church rightly constituted according to the Word of God depends not directly and necessarily upon any other Church or Churches as without whose jurisdiction call it Presbyterian or what you will it may not exercise all that power which Christ hath given to every particular Church as touching all the Offices and Ordinances thereof and that in as ample manner as if there were besides that one no other Churches in the World And yet secondly This Church thus Independent is also Dependent For as it depends absolutely upon Christ as the onely Head of this Body so as it is a member-church of the Catholick and a sister-church of all particular Churches with which it makes up one body and one Spouse of Christ her Head and Husband so it hath a mutuall dependence upon all true Churches for communion for consociation for consultation for comfort for support though alwayes saving and retaining to it selfe all those Church-priviledges which by Christs Charter are peculiar to every particular Church and body of Jesus Christ And in case this particular Church doe any act of censure upon any who thereby shall thinke himselfe wronged and shall addresse himselfe to other Churches by way of complaint and they shall thereupon desire of that church an account of their proceedings therein this church will not refuse but as in Christian duty bound will to those Churches render a reason of that or any other their doings if questioned and lawfully required And all this in a sweet and loving way with meeknesse and feare 1 Pet. 3. 15. so as none is debarred of any such appeale Nor is any well constituted Church of Christ to be conceived so brutish or so conceited of her selfe as to thinke shee may not erre or her selfe so wise as in many difficult cases not to need the counsell of others or so inflexible as with the Stoicks Sententiam mutare nunquam nullius rei poenitere never to change their minde or judgement of nothing to repent when convinced of an error But what if one particular Church will not after all due meanes used which yet no rationall man can imagine will ever come to passe hearken to the unanimous judgement and counsell of the other Churches What is to be done Surely they may upon just cause withdraw communion from that Church which in that case is the highest censure the Churches can proceed to And if the party aggrieved complaine to the civill Magistrate the Church being called is accountable to the power Thus have I plainely clearely and fully as I conceive stated these two Termes Dependent and Independent whereby is sufficiently cleared to the view of all unpartiall Judges not possessed with prejudice our Dependent Independency or Independent Dependency from your manner of stating And for your Simile wherein you propound it for better understanding as you say it halteth down-right of all foure as being altogether Ab-simile and Heterogeneous of another nature There is a vast disproportion between a civill Government and Ecclesiasticall the one established upon mans lawes the other on Gods the one various and variable according to severall Civill States Kingdomes and Lawes the other one and the same or should be if right in all the Churches of the Saints having one Rule one Law to walke by immutable And Brother for your paralleling of your many severall Congregations in one Citie or one Division or Hundred or within such a Circuit with a great Corporation as of London where is one Lord Major and Aldermen and Common Councell and so reducing so many Churches into one Corporation as so many Companies making upone Citie I suppose you meane not that one Provinciall with his Diocesans and Priests under them should make up this Parallel But this of necessitie you must doe if you will have all the Congregations in their severall Divisions or Weapontacks to be governed by their severall Presbyteries respectively Reason requires that first you set up such Presbyters over every one of your Congregations as may be for the greatest part of them good pious learned orthodox or otherwise if the greater party be Malignant and ill affected prophane and haters of the power of Godlinesse they will over-vote the good party and so what a hard yoake will you put upon the necks of all such as be truly godly when they shall be cast out by a malignant Parochiall Congregation and going to complaine to your Presbytery they shall finde as cold comfort as formerly they have done in the Prelates Consistory But there will be a better care had of placing good Presbyters But Brother let us first see it that so your Presbyterian Government may shew us a face the more amiable and lesse formidable to all truly godly and most conscientious men But if you cannot doe this whither shall the poore soules goe which live under a prophane Presbyter or one that admits all sorts tag rag to the Lords Table with whom godly soules can no more converse then with Heathen and much lesse at that holy