long agoe Another in the booke which you pretend to answer and in these very pages He most shamefully and lewdly as a man void of all common honestie and grace maketh the Ministers of Lincoln to affirme that the Prelates are reviled to be great Antichrists and their Ministerie and constitution to be great troublers of the Church at this day and that it cannot but be very sinfull and hurtfull to retaine or communicate with them CAN Stay §. 3. p. 59.69 Raiâ—old de ideloâ—l 2. c. 1. §. 2. Bilson Christ subj part 3. pag. 269. The Divell himselfe can shew no greater malice than to pervert that which is well spoken and to force a lewd senes of his owne or another mans words The Divell himselfe would have beene ashamed in this open manner to have told such a lie and therefore he is to be trusted no further than he is seen This you passe over in silence and if the substance of the accusation bee applyed unto your selfe I know not what apologie you can make Christ saith Rainolds as you quote him the Pastor of his Church doth tell us that he feeds not in Antichristian assemblies in the denne of theeves neither is it his will that his flock should there rest at noone But in the pleasant pasture by the still waters that is in the shadowes of the true Christian Churches detesting Idolatry But D. Rainolds words are not in caetibus papisticis speluncis idolâ—latrarum c. but in untbraculis orthodoxorumcatuum Whether this change of Antichristian Assemblies for popish Assemblies and true Christian Churches for Orthodox Assemblies CAN Stay § 3. p 22. D. 〈◊〉 by words and Letters testimoniall 2â—4 wâ— made in simplicitie be judge your selfe You might easily conjecture your credulous reader might conceit our assemblies to be Antichristian and not true Churches but popish Assemblies and not Orthodox he could not imagine them to be You alledge D. Amos saying It cannot be a true Church that wants order For by this the parts and members thereof are knit together But this is not to bee found in the place mentioned But D. Aines moving the question whether it be lawfull to stick to that Church from whom power of removing scandals and purging out the ungodly is taken away He answereth That power â—jure quoad actum primum cannot be separated from the true Church because immediately and necessarily it floweth from the essence it selfe for it is contained in that covenant whereby the faithfull are gathered into a Church The use of this power cannot be taken away without the great sin of them that take it away and the hainous injurie of them from whom it is taken Neither ought the Church to rest in this that she seeth her selfe unjustly oppressed of others For it belongeth to the office of the Church to defend that libertie where with she is endowed of Christ But yet if the faithfull contending for their libertie cannot obtaine their right in that part nor without grievous inconveniences come to a more free Church and can keepe themselves from the approbation of evill and doe also studie as much as in them lieth to supply that want they sinne not if they joyne themselves to such a Church or continue in it Thus D. Ames cleane contrary to that which you make him affirme Master Baines as you alledge him writes CAN Stay sect 2. p. 55. Bain diocesan That no people can worship God in repairing to any Church or ministery without warrant of the Word Let the Reader note it say you And if it be wisely noted it makes nothing against partaking in our assemblies in the ordinances of Grace because that is warranted approved commanded of God in his holy Word But Master Baines words are No people can worship God in repairing to this place and ministerie without warrant of his Word And he speakes of a Diocesan worship and ministerie peculiarly appropriated to that place as it was at Hierusalem which is nothing to your purpose You pretend that you have taken your principles out of the Nonconformists ever the chiefest of them which for learning CAN Neces of separ To the Read zeale judgement holinesse of life c. have ever held that cause But some things brought in their names is neither the opinion of all nor of the most nor of the best learned nor of many but either the private opinion of some one or the conceit of such indeed as were separated from the communion of the Church of England and not from the abuses only which were in the Church You cite Master Penry saying CAN stay sect 3. p. 57. M. Penry of the Ministerie of the Church of Engl. p. 37.38 CAN Neces of separ p. 16 28.43 Exhortation to the government of Wales 42 46 26 CAN Neces of separation Epist to the Reader CAN Neces of separ p. 252. It is most certaine Satan rules in the consciences of men not only by false doctrine but also by his false power and ordinances his kingdome of darknesse not only consisteth in the lies false doctrin and worship which he hath coined but also in the false and Antichristian ordinances which he hath invented for the ruling of his idolatrous denne And therefore the children and Saints of God ought to avoid both the one and the other But whatsoever his meaning bee in that or other passages cited Master Penry was not a Nonconformist but a Separatist by your owne confession and therefore his sayings are not to bee received for the Nonconformists principles Master Br. saith It is lawfull to communicate in that worship where the ceremonies are used but wee cannot believe him say you for his brethren both affirme and prove the contrary And here now is a fit place to write down the words wherof mention was made in p. 99. partly because the author is a principle Nonconformist and partly to discover the rashnesse and folly of this inconsiderate man which durst without any reason more than boldnesse still justifie the very thing which his brethren by many sound arguments have manifested to be evill and unlawfull and then you goe on to rehearse the words of the author of a dispute upon communicating at confused communions pag. 68.69 Who that Author is I know not the booke I have not seen but by the words which you relate it appeares hee was no English Nonconformist neither doth he speake of communicating in our English societies And if he did he speakes but his private opinion and not what is the judgement of Nonconformists It may be questioned whether Master Br. booke was not penned and published before hee could either see or thinke of the other But whatsoever is to be thought in that particular M. Br. knew it to bee the common practice and uniforme judgment of all Nonconformists in England both heretofore and at that present when he wrote that it is lawfull A dispute against Engl. part 1. ca. 9. sect 3.
blessing upon the labour of his servants if any other Church under Heaven In the second signification the power of the keyes for substance is in our Church but the manner of ordering and administration of them is corrupt and faultie But this power of the keyes is not of absolute necessitie to the being of the Church but to the well-being onely Here is a fit place to answer your Question Whether to hide from the people the knowledge of all the maine truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible church make a false Prophet It would be knowne what you call maine truths which concerne the outward regiment of Christs visible Church The power of government is proper and communicated Proper that which Christ hath reserved peculiar to himselfe and is executed according to his infinite wisdome by the secret hand of his divine power and the effectuall worke of his holy Spirit making the word of exhortation and reproofe comfort and instruction to some the savour of life unto life whence followeth effectuall answering to their calling rejoycing comfort and growing up to perfection Not to mention further how he succoureth the godly bestoweth some gifts though not such as accompany Salvation upon the wicked bridleth curbeth and confoundeth his enemies His communicated Government is that which being limited within the compasse of certaine Lawes and Canons of his holy Word he hath committed to be exercised and executed in and by Societies according to his appointment The chiefe and principall meanes Christ useth here is the preaching of his Word whereby he saveth his people and conquereth his enemies The discipline is as a Chariot for the Word to ride upon and to keepe other ordinances from contempt but it is not the most ordinary or mighty meanes of Christs government or administration of his Kingdome These things being thus The Ministers of the Gospell are to teach the people the maine grounds and chiefe heads of Christian Religion even all things necessary to salvation in respect of faith and manners otherwise they stand guilty of the bloud of soules They are to teach them also what the Lord hath instituted for the well-ordering of his house but in season order and as they are able to beare it It is not for men to set up the roofe before they have laid the foundation Experience for many yeares hath taught us that divers who have much busied themselves in the doctrine of Church-government have been unable to make f Some deny the use of excoÌ„munication among the Jewes Bils perpet Ch. gov c. 4. The Scribes and Pharises you will say did in Christs time excommunicate and thrust out such as they thought offenders out of their Synagogues But the Pharises never learned that out of Moses A separation of the Leaper from the company of men and of uncleane for comming neere holy places or things Moses prescribeth but not excommunication that I remember c. Aliens were not admitted to be of the number of the Lords people and any uncleannesse of the flesh did separate for a season the Jewes themselves from approaching neere to the Congregation or Tabernacle of God but neither of these is excommunication c. So in the use of excommunication in the Christian Church c. and many such like use of that which they have learned from others If I should bring your selfe for instance who have received many good truths from the writings of the Nonconformists but miserably pervert them to your owne hurt the disturbance of Gods Church scandall of the Gospel and the strengthning of such as are turned aside into dangerous errours I should not much misse the marke and you have more cause to take heed than to be offended Also godly men who follow the truth in love may be of different minds in these things and for men to hide that from the people whereof they are not perswaded that it is the truth of God is not the note of a false Prophet Moreover Those things which you call maine truths concerning the externall government of Christs visible Church may justly be questioned whether they be truths at all If I may conjecture by your writings the maine truths you intend are such as these That power of Church-government is absolutely necessary to the being of a Church That all stinted or set-formes of prayer or Liturgie are forged or devised worship That there is no lawfull Minister who is not chosen called or ordained by that particular Congregation where he is to administer That the Minister of one congregation may performe no ministeriall act in another That the power of Government is in the communitie of the faithfull and from them derived unto the Pastours Teachers or Elders c. These and the like are the maine truths in your esteeme which I conceive have no bottoming in the holy Scripture And if the Nonconformists or some other should aske of you this Question whether to teach such points as maine truths necessary to salvation and to condemne all Churches who conforme not to your platforme as false and Antichristian and their worship as false and idolatrous and whether to wrest and abuse Scriptures and pervert Authors to that purpose make you not a false Prophet consider advisedly what ound and satisfying answer you could returne SECT III. BEfore â—e proceed to another point Can. Neces of Separat p. 159 160. we may here frame this argument If the professors of the Gospell in England have not among them a true Church-government but are under that which came from the great Antichrist then are they bound to set up the ordinance of God and practice it no withstanding the Magistrate doe forbid the said practice But the professors of the Gospell in England have not among their a true Church-government but are under c. Therefore they are bound to set up the ordinance of God and to practice it notwithstanding the Magistrate doth forbid the said practice These are both their owne positions and so soundly proved that no man living is able to confute theus ANSVVER IF your meaning be as the ordinary signification of the words import it is not to the purpose for it is one thing in our owne persons to practice according to the ordinance of Christ another to separate from that societie which doth not practice in all things according to the institution of our Saviour But you give cause to thinke that by these words erecting this power and exercising the same among them you meane that they are to separate and draw themselves into such a societie where they may exercise that power For thus you write I doe not meane Can. Neces of Separat pag. 155. that any private person should meddle with the affaires of the Realme but that every one in his owne person doe place himselfe about the throne of God leaving the abuses of the publique Stateâ— to be reformed by such as have a calling thereto And if this be your minde in
AN ANSWER TO TWO TREATISES Of Mr. IOHN CAN THE Leader of the English Brownists in Amsterdam The former called A Necessitie of Separation from the Church of ENGLAND proved by the Nonconformists Principles The other A Stay against Straying Wherein in opposition to M. Iohn Robinson he undertakes to prove the unlawfulnesse of hearing the Ministers of the Church of England Very seasonable for the present times By the late learned laborious and faithfull servant of Jesus Christ JOHN BALL He that is first in his owne cause seemeth just but his neighbour commeth and searcheth him Prov. 18.17 Prove all things hold fast that which is good 1 Thes 5.21 LONDON Printed by R. B. and are to be sold by John Burroughes at his Shop at the signe of the Golden Dragon neere the Inner Temple gate in Fleetstreet 1642. TO The Christian READER Sound Knowledge and love of the Truth together with inward peace and Spirituall joy through Communion with Christ in the Ordinances of the Gospell Christian READER THis ensuing discourse was prepared for the Presse by the Reverend Author and committed to one of us that it might be made publike of which we will say nothing but shall freely venture it to stand or fall by the award of an impartiall judgement Neither shall wee present thee with the Authors deserved praises seeing his rare pietie and great learning were sufficiently knowne to very many of various rankes who were well acquainted with him and his workes already Printed have given a competent proofe hereof unto all others who have 〈◊〉 them without prejudice and partialitie Only by occasion of publishing this piece wee â—â—we leave to cleare him from such aspersions as by 〈◊〉 have causlesly beene cast upon him and by others too much and too easily believed against him a thing incident to men most eminent and innocent as instances in all Ages will evince not only to the blemishing of his just estimation but also as we conceive to the prejudice of the truth it selfe and in favour of many spreading errours and exorbitances Those aspersions which wee shall endeavour to take off are two which though they openly contradict each other yet they unhappily agree to defame our worthy friend whose credit wee judge our selves many wayes bound to vindicate and preserve The one intimating some degree of declining from his former inconformitie in deserting the Nonconformists cause and grounds being too much inclined to favour the times in our Ceremonies and Service book The other expressing his advancing beyond the wonted limets of a Nonconformist towards the cause and course of separation Two things are pretended to confirme the former 1. A passage in the Preface of his Book called A friendly tryall of the grounds tending to separation c. pag. 3. his words are these Many are the objections which are made against set formes of Prayer and particularly against our booke of Common Prayer All which I have endeavoured to answer severally not because they are of so great weight but because I desired fully to satisfie every doubt c. Secondly that in the whole frame of the same booke he speakes more covertly and coldly against the corruptions of our Church than became a man who continued stedfast in the wayes of Nonconformity For Answer whereunto we affirme in the Generall That upon our knowledge he lived and dyed a strict forbearer and firme opposer of all such corruptions as the Nonconformists heretofore so usually called had commonly by their publike writings disallowed Nor have wee knowne any man in that kinde more precise uniforme and constant to his opinion in discourse prayers and practices yet alwayes carried on with Christian moderation and meekenesse which graces are of singular use in controversies of this nature yea some of us can witnesse his purpose if God had lent him longer life by a set Treatise to have shewed himselfe a plaintiffe for the Nonconformists against the corruptions in our Church as in this hee appeares their defendant against the Calumnies of Master Can. These testimonies may satisfie the sober minded that he continued cordial to their cause whereunto more might be added but wee desire not to revive the remembrance of these differences among deare brethren Because wee pray and hope that through Gods mercy by meanes of our Gracious Sovereigne and of the present Parliament they will in such sort be buried that they shall arise no more to our disturbance and discomfort More particularly to the passage objected out of the forecited Preface we Answer That the words themselvs doe not necessarily imply any such sense but they may admit yea they will carry a better construction if the Reader will be candid and well advised For he saith not that he hath answered the objections as suggesting little or nothing blameworthy in our Liturgie but because they are not of so great weight as to inforce the unlawfulnesse of those set formes or warrant a separation from our Churches and publike worship in regard thereof All which both the title of the Booke and the tenour of the whole discourse therein together with this Treatise exhibited will sufficiently cleare unto the indifferent and attentive Reader And that this was his meaning some of us can testifie from his owne mouth which also he would have manifested to the world if God had lengthened his life either in an Epistle annexed to this worke now brought into the open light or some other way as might have been judged most convenient But you will say Object The other ground of this imputation is more pregnant for why did he not speake out against the corruptions of the times as others did Nay why did he seek to cleaâ— the book of Common Prayer of some things charged upon it Two things we conceive may fully take off the strength of this objection Answ 1. Because it was impertinent here to aggravate or multiply corruptions objected but rather to shew that as in some things the booke by them was overcharged so notwithstanding all that could be alledged against it yet separation from our worship could not be lawfull much lesse necessarie 2 The state of those times wherein this piece was penned would not brooke more plainnesse in that and such like points this we could if it were expedient aboundantly evidence by declaring with what difficultie it passed the Presse what exceptions were taken at some harmelesse expressions and what amendments were exacted in some phrases which seemed somewhat openly to hint the Authors heart-workings towards that Reformation which in these times is much desired and endeavoured The second imputation remaines to be removed viz. that though our Reverend Author had both reasoned and written against the opinions and practice of separation in the time of his health yet on his death bed he did retract and with griefe repent what in that kinde he had done This is commonly reported confidently believed and gladly embraced not only here at home but also in forreigne parts even in
large and particular animadversions to himselfe in private The Almighty speedily cast out of his Church all causes of offence cleare up doubtfull truths unto the hearts of his people Compound all differences amongst Brethren make us all of one minde heart and way in his worship that our divisions may no longer dishonour the Gospell distract the weak conscience disinable us to do that good we desire or put weapons into the hands of then who oppose that reformation the perfecting whereof our soules long for through JESUS CHRIST THOMAS LANGLEY WILLIAM RATHBAND SIMEON ASH FRANCIS WOODCOCK GEORGE CROSSE An Advertisement to the READER THis Booke was divided and sent unto severall Presses that it might the sooner come abroad yet by reason of the multitude of Pamphlets which it met with daily it hath beene thrusting through the throng for the space of halfe a yeare at least before it could see the light In which regard also it pleades excuse if in the printing it be not found every way so punctuall as might be desired Farewell THE ANSWERS TO THE EPISTLES BLessed be the Lord 2 Thes 2.8 We see now in good measure that accomplished which the Apostle foretold touching the revelation of the man of sinne and heartily beg the full consuming of him by the brightnesse of Christs comming But the discoverie of that mysterie of iniquitie and consuming of that monster of abominations standeth not in separation from Christian societies intirely professing the true faith worshipping the Lord with that pure worship which he hath appointed and holding communion in those ordinances which God hath blessed to the comfort of thousands and ten thousands even their soules who with most bitternesse oppose those congregations if ever they felt sound comfort indeed Separation from the true Churches of Christ his Ministery and worship of which sort I shall prove that to be by the Word of God for which I plead tendeth not to the overthrow of Antichrist but to the renting of the Church the disgrace of Religion the advancement of pride schisme contention the offence of the weak the griefe of the godly who be better setled the hardening of the wicked and the recoverie or rising againe of Antichristianisme They that condemne our Assemblies Ministerie and Worship and voluntarily separate from the preaching of the Word Prayers and Sacraments as Antichristian if in words they doe not maintaine Antichrist really they doe him more credit than his chiefe upholders For of necessitie they must confesse that in Antichristian Churches the intire faith may be purely professed the doctrine of salvation plentifully preached Ambr. in Luc. l. 6. c. 9. tom 5. Petra tua Christus est fundamentum Ecclesia fides est Si in Petra fueris in Ecclestaeris Pâ—ra est Ch istus Hieron in Psa 133. Ecclesia ibi est â—bi fides vera est Ecclesia autem vera illic erat vbi fides vera eral cum haeretici omnes bas ecclesias possidebant Aug in epâ—st Ich. tract 3. Estautem mater ecclesia uberaejus â—uo Testamenta divinarum Sâ—r. hinc sugatur lac omnium Sacrameatorum pro aeterna salute nostra gestorum Eâ—â—n Psalm 21. Vbicunque timetur Deus laudatur ibi est ecclesia Parker Ep. published in the prophane Schisme of the Brownists CAN A stay against straying answ § .. 1. p. 44. Mediam tennâ—â—e beati The true and pure worship of God is called grosse idolatry CAN stay §. 4. p. 32. Filthy superstition Id. sect 1. p. 49. Our assemblies the harlots house Id. sect 4. p. 61. The best Preachers are the worst Id. sect 5. p. 76. In Scriptures are said to be Robbers and Thievs yea spirituall sorcerie is charged upon them Id. se 8. p. 87. the seales of the covenant for substance rightly administred and by the blessing of God upon his owne meanes Christian soules ordinarily converted and nourished unto life eternall which is much more than all the factors for Antichrist shall ever bee able to make good and if true nothing could be 〈…〉 to the praise of Antichristianisme In effect 〈…〉 they lesse than even persecute the Lord Iesus in his hadst which they revile in his ordinances which they dishonour and in his servants whose footsteps they slander whose 〈◊〉 they desolse whose office they trample upon with 〈…〉 Which if the forward abettors and promoters of this separation did advisedly consider and take the Lord before them they would not furiously brand and abandone that worship and ministerie which hath the approbation and carrieth the seale of God As it is unlawfull to approve that thing which ought to be condemned so to condemne what is to bee justified much more to cast off and reject those godly assemblies which Christ hath and doth grace with the presence of his grace as false and that worship which is tendered to God alone in the mediation of Iesus Christ according to his will as idolatry and that Ministerie which God hath and daily doth blesse to the gaining and edifying of soules unto life everlasting as Antichristian Humble mindes are afraid of novelties CAN stay sect 1. p. 48. But this is the greatest noveltie that ever was heard of in the Churches of the Saints All that we speak we should affirm out of the holy Scriptures soundly interpreted and rightly applyed But this judgement is not of God is not taught in Scripture CAN stay sect 11 p. 112. In corde animáque credentium ponitur idolum quando novuÌ„ dogma constituitur Hier. in Jer. 32. Omne dogma contrarium veritati adorat epera manuum suaruÌ„ constituit idola in terrá suâ Hier. in Isa 2. Ne sitâ—s mulâ—e Magistri dissentiâ—ntes a doctrinâ uniâ—â— Magistri Christi August l. 1. Retract A Stay sect 1. pag. 47. Quicquid pariter omnes uno eodemque consensu c. Vincent Lyrinen cont proph haeret c 4. Field of the Ch. l. 3 〈◊〉 43. p. 175. is not consonant to the doctrine of Christ our only Master as in the examination of particulars shall be shewed If it bee a great sinne to be rash and adventurous upon opinions in matters of Religion where men are not first well informed in judgement by true grounds of knowledge What is it to condemne the Churches Ministery Worship and Servants of the Lord Iesus against the expresse Sentence of our heavenly Master and Teacher If an Idoll be set up in the Church when a new Opinion is broached as some cite it out of Hierom they of the Separation upon tryall will be found the strangest Idoll makers in the world because they have broached the strangest noveltie that ever was maintained in the Church Such as lay downe rules saith the author of the Stay to find out the truth by write thus What the Fathers all with one consent have held and written is a necessarie token to know the truth by And whatsoever hath been holden at all times and in all places by all Christians that have
not beene noted for noveltie singularitie and division is to bee received as the undoubted truth of God If these assertions be true then is this condemnatorie sentence most unjust and untrue For not only all old writers generally but the most learned of later times yea and all sects and sorts of people professing Christianitie themselves excepted are against it Therefore did they consider the terrour of the Lord CAN stay sect 1 p. 8. and that great day in which the Lord Iesus shall appeare in the brightnesse of his Father to avenge the quarrell of his least Commandement and to judge the wrongs Gregorie to John the Bishop of Constantinople saith thus Tu qâ—â—â— Christo universali ecclesic capiti in extrâ—mi judicii dâ—cturus es examine qui cuactacjus membra tibimet conarts universalis appellatione supponere CAN stay against straying sect 1. p. 8 Parker of the crosse part 2. c. 9. sect 2. I may well compare some of unbridled spirits to the Flaccians whose intemperate furie made Ernestus to deale the more hardly with the Protestants out of a fear they were all of the same spirit and would in the end procure like mischiefe Am. Polan in Dan. c. 9. injuries and reproaches which are cast upon his Church and Saints ordinances and worship they would not speake evill of what they know not revile his heritage despise his worship condemn the righteous vilifie the ordinances of grace abuse Scriptures misalledge Authors cause divisions and schismes in the Churches of God distract the minaes of some obstinate others and expose religion it selfe to contempt Let mee speake to them as the great est zealot in that cause at this day speaketh to his opposite in a cause of lesse importance When God ariseth up what will they answer him what will they say when hee shall not onely charge them that they have made a rent in the Church brought an evill report upon his ordinances spoken contemptuously of that which he approved yea commanded and perverted his word for that end and purpose But also that they have laboured with might and maine to draw others into the same transgression by meanes whereof his name is blasphemed the weake scandalized the godly made sad and that which was halting quite turned aside If it be sure that a more grievous punishment is reserved for them that cause others to offend than for them which doe such things themselves let the adviser weigh seriously whether it doth not concerne himselfe as much as any other to tremble and stand in awe It is a vaine boast that at this day there are few CAN say Episâ— to the Reader The judgment and practice of some men of speciall account in the Church of God have to this day held this impression in me that I esteem the Captaines and Ancient-bearers of this schisme unworthy the honour of any set conflict and publike confutation S. B. the raising of the foundation of Browne Ep. to the Christian Reader CAN Neces of separa Epist to the Reader Galschill to Martial Epist Omnia invalida nihilo sunt aequiâ—â— paranda if any except Formalists and Familists and men of corrupt mindes who suppose that gaine is Godlines that will appeare in defence of our parish Churches Ministerie and Worship For the professors as he is pleased to stile them are of the same judgement touching those things that formerly they have beene of and stand ready by the Scriptures to prove their godly congregations to be the true Churches of Iesus Christ and their worship to be of his holy institution If of later times they have beene silent in these matters it is not because they are better informed or that they see and acknowledge their worship and Ministery to be fals and idolatrous but they would not spend good houres in vaine seeing what soever was written in this kinde had beene learnedly and sufficiently answered not with reproaches taunts and boastings as is suggested but with solid proofe out of the booke of God Christian Religion teacheth men to occupie themselves otherwise than to mispend their time in answering that which in the eares of all indifferent men carryeth a sufficient confutation with it or is sufficiently confuted already specially when experience had lessoned them that they must deale with such as will overcome by peremptory censuring when weight of reason is wanting to them Neverthelesse If not reply if they please and when they will CAN stay Epist When the undertakers have finished their answer and â—ast Dav. published his many things that he hath to say against it Id sect 4. p. 36. least overmuch silence should be interpreted consent or beget too great confidence in men of the goodnesse of their cause and others should stumble at their vaunts as if none durst because they doe not undertake their answer I am purposed by the grace of God to examine the grounds and arguments whereby they would perswade the Necessitie of Separation from our Assemblies and from the worship of God performed amongst us Sundry things M. Canne requesteth of him that shall undertake to read and answer his bookes CAN stay epistle to the Reader 1 That when he setteth himselfe to read hee should set himself as in Gods presence and look on with a single and unpartiall eye 2 That he live by his owne faith and build not upon another mans fancie 3. That he denie himself and be contented to be guided by God alone 4. That for a particular faile hee doe not condemne the whole 5. That hee change not the state of the Question 6. That he may finde plaine dealing Id. Stay sect 1. p. 2.4.5 Sanctis Scripturis non loquentibus quis loquitur Amb. de vocat Gent. tom 2. l. 2. c. 3. Omne quod loquimur debemus â—ffi mare de Scripturis sanctis Hier. in Psal 98. tom 8. Nihil ultra quamsacris literis proditum est definiendum Erasm in Hilar. Solum Dei verbum certum caetera falsa si dâ—ssentiant Fer. ad Rom. c. 3. p. 303. CAN stay sect 4. p. 32. sect 1. p. 44. and what is brought against him be read out of the Prophets or Psalmes the Law or Gospell Whether these conditions be observed by the Author himselfe in his writings let the indifferent judge as namely whether passages of Scripture be truly alledged Authors rightly quoted arguments plainly propounded conclusions soundly drawne his adversaries ingenuously dealt withall Whether in writing he set himselfe in the presence of God and weigh in the Ballance of the Sanctuarie what he commendeth unto his Reader Whether he censure not before he make proofe by Scripture and rather insult over his adversaries with insolent and reproachfull tearmes than confute their grounds with substantiall reasons and whiles he commendeth plaine dealing simplicitie and integritie he doe not play the jugler who pretends plainnesse that he might beguile and deceive the sooner For when he makes semblance of zeale for the puritie of religion
ab ipsis corpore divelli possumus nos ad meliores conferre onmino debemus sed saepâ— fit ut velis nolis in medio impâ—orumâ—e veâ—sari oporteat caveas igilur ab eorum studâ—is operibus ut Deus tecum loquatur Lavat in Eack cap. 3. Hom. 11. and this is altogether unlawfull For Gods people when the matter commeth to their practice must have the judgement of discretion and further they crave not the judgement I say of discretion to try the Spirits whether they be of God or not And in case the Church whether of ignorance or contention or a man-pleasing humour determine in doctrine against the Word or in ceremonie against the generall Rules their duty is to obey God rather than man But the sinnes of the Minister or other part of the Congregation shall not be imputed to him who doth only communicate in the ordinances of worship 2 To communicate in a false Ministerie may import to communicate in the ordinances of worship with them whose calling is not in every respect approved of God and this is lawfull If then the sense of this reason be That our Ministerie is absolutely false or a meere nullitie it cannot be made good by Scripture grounds or Non-conformists principles but the contrary is most evident And he that shall undertake to prove such a desperate Proposition must grant that there was neither Church or Sacrament nor Ministerie in the world for many hundred yeers past if he finde not just cause to question his owne Christendome But if the meaning be that it is not lawfull to communicate in the worship of God with Ministers not fitly qualified disorderly called or carelesly executing their office and function then it is directly crosse to the Word of truth sound reason and consent of all the learned If you demand as you doe of your Pistoler Where I pray you doe you read in the Scriptures of two kinds of Antichristian churches speak out man shew us the place the chapteâ— and the verse ingenuous dealing requires it Stay sect 3. pag 20. Isa 56 10 11.12 Jer. 8 8.9 10.11 Mâ—c 3.11 Mal. 2.8 Ezek 44.7 8 9 10. See Iun. annot in loc L water ibid. M.c. 3.11 Jerem. 5.31 1 Sam. 2.12 15 16 17 25. 1 Sam. 1.1 2 3 Iâ—h 2 16. See Constant Emperor Comâ—in Misn where wee read in Scripture of these two kinds of false Ministers and communicating with either in the ordinances of worship we will shew you the place the chapter and the verse When the Priests were dumb dogs that could not bark and greedy dogs that could never have enough was their Ministerie true or false were they qualified as becomes the Ministers of the Lord of hoasts or no The strangers and uncircumcised which were set to take the charge of the Lords Sanctuary were they true Ministers or false When the Priests taught for hire and the Prophets prophesied for money when the â—rophets prophesied lies and the Priests bare rule by their means Was their Ministery true or false Were the Sonnes of Eli true or false Ministers qualifyed as becommeth the servants of God they were not but the function which they executed was of God When the Priests bought and sold Doves in the Temple or took upon them to provide Doves or such like things for them that were to offer was their Ministerie true or false Did they that whereunto they were appointed of God or noe Matth 5.20.21 22. c. Matth. 15.3 4 5. Matth. 23.13.15 When the Scribes and Pharisees corrupted the Law by false glosses taught for doctrines mens precepts made the Commandement of God of none effect by their traditions shut up the Kingdome of heaven before men neither going in themselves nor suffering them that would making those of their profession twofold more the children of hell than themselves When they taught Justification by works and perfect obedience to the whole law and denied in Christ both the Person and office of the Messiah blaspheming him in his doctrine as a deceiver of the people Matth. 12.24 Luk 7 30. Joh. 7.32 Matth. 21.45 36. in his life as a glutton and wine-drinker in his glorious miracles as one that wrought them by the Devill and when they hated to be reformed was their Ministerie true or false were they called of God or did they thrust in themselves before they were sent If their Ministerie was true then an ignorant Idoll profane idle Ministerie which despiseth knowledge opposeth Godlinesse prophaneth the holy things of God corrupteth the Law polluteth the worship strengtheneth the hands of the wicked and leadeth the blinde out of the way may be a true and lawfull Ministerie of God It is besides the marke here to answer that the Scribes and Pharisees did neither minister to any but the Lords people nor in an unlawful place nor by an unlawful entrance For the Question now is of their Ministerie the qualification of their persons to the office which they took upon them Whether such a Ministerie as theirs was to be approved of God and such Persons to be chosen or continued in their standing For be their outward calling what it will and the people to whom they administer as they may if the Ministerie be not of God if the persons be not qualified as God requireth if they execute not their office for God according to his will revealed and the good of his people but against God according to their owne corrupt immaginations and to the griefe of the godly their standing in that place and roome without question is not of Gods approbation nor their calling lawfull It might be added Num 8 9 10. Lâ—â— 8.3 that though the tribe of Levi onely was used to the Ministerie yet all that tribe was not applyed that wayes nor those at all adventure but by choice according to their abilities And therefore if the Pharisees were not fitted in some measure for their office the choice was not by approbation from God nor their entrance lawfull If then their Ministerie was false either it was unlawfull to communicate with them in the ordinances of worship Matth. 8.4 Luk. 17.14 Io. 18.20 Luk. 22.53 which is directly crosse to Scripture the examples of the Prophets our Saviour his Apostles and all the faithfull or to communicate with or in a false Ministerie is not a breach of the second Commandement They that preached Christ of envie Phil. 1.15 St Paul to the Philip. is glad that the Gospel is preached although it be not purely but he would never have been glad if it should have been preached falsly or not truly c. the want of a good calling may give occasion to say that the Word of God is not sincerely taught because there is not a lawfull ordinary calling l. C. repl 1 pag. 28. to adde affliction to Pauls bands were they true Ministers or false What soever you will say to heare them preach Christ was no breach of the
sayings in Jolm 10. And thus have the old Writers expounded the places as Iraeneus lib. 4. cap. 4 Clemens Alexan. lib. 1. Strom. Cypr. libs 1. Epist 6. 76. Didimus in Iohn 10. â—upert in Iolm 10. Theodoret ibid. and others But the present Ministeriâ— of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England hath not a true vocation and calling by election approbation and ordination of the Faithfull people where they Administer Therefore none must heare or joyne in Spirituall Communion with the present Ministerie of the Ecclesiasticall Assemblies of England Which of the Propositions the Non-conformists will denie I know not but sure J am they are both theirs Howbeit it may be they doe not so well weigh their owne Principles as they should And hence it is that their practice is not so strictly answerable to their Profession and therefore doe give just occasion I speake it with griefe unto the Prelates and their Parasites to insinuate against them hypocriticall ends in condemning so grievously the Ministerie worship and government of the English Church CAN. Neces separ Epist to the Reader What better should we expect from them who seek to put out the light againe which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed unto many I know what I say and have good experience of this thing and yet to partake in the knowne evills and abuses thereof But for my part I am otherwise minded than the Bishops in this thing and doe thinke that they doe of conscience condemne the state of the Church but doe not maturely consider the responsive conclusions which follow upon their Principles For which cause I have written of purpose this Treatise to prove they cannot justifie their Tenents against that Church and stand members lawfully thereof ANSWER HANNIBAL said once saith M. Parker There was not so much as one in all the enemies campe that was called Gisco In an Epist published in the profane schis of the Brownists Parker of the Crosse part 2. c. y. §. 2. As for those of the Separation who have confuted them more than wee or who have vvritten more against them Some things of truth they hold with which we thinke it no more sinne for us now to agree than Cyprian once to agree with Novatianus in that which hee esteemed right c. So whatsoever stirre or sedition was moved by the unbeleeving Iewes it was imputed to the Iews that were Christians who were thought to be all one with them Caesar Baron Anâ—al in anno 201. The impuritie of the Gnosticks was drawne to the defamation of all other Christians no difference being made between them Cicer. Parad. 2. M Sutel tract de disc ca. 15. pag. 165. Bell of Ch. Govern cap. 12. pag. 151. 152. Bancroft tract of discip cap. 33. pag. 430. 431. 432 Laus Querim Eccles pag. 62. 63. So whereas the Egyptians were diri ventusi fa ibundi jactantes vani liberi nova um rerum cupientes the Christians and all that are there dwelling are thought to be the very same So may it truly be said now Not so much as one of the Godly Ministers that suffer in England about the Discipline that may deservedly be called a Brownist And the Nonconformists doe no more lay the grounds of Separation than the Reformed Churches sowe the seede of Libertimisme and Anabaptistrie which of all others they have most soundly confuted and judiciously laid open to the world without seeking to justifie ought that elsewhere upon good reason they condemned to be evill But it is no new thing to reproach them as the Authors of errors heresies or schismes who principally laboured the suppressing of them No man cryed downe the Errour of the Manichees concerning a good God and an evill so much as Austine and yet their opinion is charged upon them that hold his opinion of absolute Predestination The positions of the Stoicks answere to the opinions of the Remonstrants concerning Free Will and power in Man but the contrary side is burdened therewith The grounds of the Nonconformists stand directly opposite to the speciall grounds of Separation and yet they heare from some that they be Separatists in heart from others that they have laid the foundation and the Separatists build upon it and that such as have made answere to the Separatists doe against conscience put out the light which hath been by themselves chiefly revealed It is true they complaine of abuses in the Church and not to excuse humane frailty sometimes with heat and fervour excessive and humbly sue for reformation But to seek redresse of what is out of order is rather to endeavour the repaire of what is ruinous than the plucking of it down Jt is one thing dutifully to urge the proceeding of our Church unto perfection another schismatically to leave and forsake her Betwixt these two there is as much difference S. B. The rasing of the foundation c Epist to the Reader as is betweene that child that in tender affection reproveth and laboureth the reformation of his Mother whom he seeth by her indiscreet behaviour to become a reproach among women and him that under pretence of the hate of her uncomely behaviour should pluck out her bowells and forsake her They complaine of abuses remaining in the Reformation not denying that a wonderfull and gracious reformation is already made but moving to a through and perfect reformation of what is wanting and out of order For willingly they confesse that next unto the Lord God every one of them is most deeply bound unto the Kings and Princes whom he hath used as excellent instruments to deliver his Church here out of the spirituall Egypt of Poperie T.C. Repl. 1 fel. 155. This they willingly confesse before men and in their prayers daily give most humble thanks to God for And by their earnest suite and humble desires which they have for further reformation they are so farre from unthankfulnesse that they desire the heape of felicitie to the Church and Commonwealth Which of the Prophets doth not cry out against the Priests in time of the law Against their pride oppression covetousnesse tyrannie that they despised knowledge opposed the true Prophets of the Lord countenanced impietie and profanenesse and shewed themselves enemies to all goodnesse Did the Prophets then who knew what it was to worke according to their owne Principles teach a necessitie of Separation or give presidents to others to separate by their example In all ages of the Church Platina in vita Marcellin Hanc autem calamitatem quam nostri passi sunt a Deo permissam refert Euseb c. Cypr. de duplici Martyâ— Hic discrucior quod non paucos Pastores habeat ecclesia qui non solum non opponunt sua corpora adversus luporum inciersus verum etiam ipfilupos agant c. Concil Nic. 1. ca. 2. Gratian. dist 48 ca 1. Leo ad Afri an Epist. 85. Grat. dist 61. ca. 5. Hieron ad Oâ—e an ep ad Nepoti T.C.
substance and essence they are true in every true and lawfull complete societie But as the profession of the truth may be found in all fundamentall points though mixed with many errours so for Truth and existence the Ministerie may be lawfull though in many particulars delinquent and deficient In the true Church then there is a true Ministerie But the true Church hath continued there by the blessing of God where the Election of Ministers hath been given away by the people or taken from them In later times the High Priesthood was bought and sold for monie and somtimes it was made annuall that every yeere new Priests were created as those Governours whom Kings change every yeere that as every man would lay out more or lesse monie he should obtaine or lose the Priesthood Which may be seen in the examples of Iason and Menelaus Neverthelesse so long as the Church of the Jewes continued the Church of God the Priesthood continued also In the Primitive Churches when the people had a voice in the choice of their Teachers oftentimes there were factions in the Church the people stood against their Guides and the Guides against their people and the people were divided one against another And sometimes either through sloth or for peace the Pastors left the election of Officers to the people Ruffin lib. 11. c. 10.11 Theod. hist lib. 4. ca. 6. August Epist 110. 225. Socrat. hist lib. 7. ca. 34 35. 39. Concil Antioch cap. 18. Sozom. hist l. 2. ca. 18 19. Naziatrz in Epit. patris Euagr. l. 2. cap. 5.8 Theodor. l. 5. ca. 23. Gratian. dist 63. ca. 11 12. Cypr. l. 3. epist 14. 10. W.B. The Church plea. §. 8. pag. 90. T.C. repl 2. par 1. p. 212. Cypr. l. 2. epist 5. l. 4. Epist 5. l. 3. epist 22. and the like he did for Optatus Satuus Caesernius Numidicus Calv. Inst l 4. c. 4. §. 10. August epist 223. Theod. l. 1. ca. 23. Socrat. hist. l. 2. ca. 19. Sozom. l. 3. c. 20. Socrat. hist. lib. 7. ca. 28. W.B. The Church plea. § 8. pag. 80. Centur. 1. ca. 4. Centur. 6 7. col 591. Centur. 2. c. 7. p. 134. 135. and the people challenged it unto themselves and sometimes againe they took it from their people and challenged it to themselves But in the mids of these broyles he was accounted a true Minister who was elected whether by the Guides or by the people or by the Emperour so he taught the doctrine of Salvation truely And if this be not admitted what shall be done when the people and their Elders be divided in the choice of a fit Officer or Guide If the people prevaile against their Elders he whom they chuse is no Minister to them because not chosen by their Suffrages if the Elders against the people he whom they approve is no Minister because he wants the peoples voice And if the people dissent they must separate and excommunicate one another because to the one part he is no Minister whom the other approve Though Cyprian teach That Ministers should be chosen by the people yet this forme of Election was not in some Churches in Cyprians time who were esteemed true Churches and true Ministers And Cyprian himselfe appointed Aurelius a Reader without advice of the Church by the authoritie of his fellow-Ministers then present Pinianus was ordained of the people Elder of the Church against Augustines minde and will Athanasius made Frumentius Bishop and sent him to the Indies he created Presbyters in other Churches and when he came into Egypt as many as he knew addicted to the Arian haeresie hee put them out of their place and whose Faith he tryed and approved to them he committed the Churches The Church of Cyzicena gave this honor to Atticus that without his consent it could not chuse a Bishop You will not denie but the Ministerie of the Church for the first second and third and fourth hundred yeeres after Christ was true and might be joyned withall For thus writeth a friend of yours and as it is supposed by your aide It is affirmed by the Centuries of Magdenburg that from Christs ascension unto Trajans time which is about an hundred yeers every particular Church was governed by the Bishops Elders and Deacons and describing the state of Christian Churches from Trajans reigne unto Severus that is from the yeere of Christ 100 to 195 thus they write The order of Government was popular for all Churches had equall power of teaching purely the Word of God administration of the Sacraments excommunication of hereticks and wicked persons loosing the penitent the election and ordination of Ministers and the deposition of them againe for just cause And even unto Constantines time The Primitive purity of Church Government was not yet defloured with the dregges of mans invention â—igâ—em in Apoc. 12. pag. 505. 506. Neither had Satan brought in Prelaticall pride into the sheepfold of the Lord but Pastors looked every one to the health of his owne flock And a litle after he citeth Epiphanius â— â— Ibid. pag. 90. Hierome Ambrose Cyrill Hilarie and Gregorie Nazianzene as making for him in the matter of chusing Ministers But most certaine it is within this space of time many things were done in the election and ordination of Ministers which are directly crosse to that which you require as essentiall in his calling See Iun. eccl l. 3. cap. 1. See Sâ—crat l. 4. 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 21. Grâ—e 16 17. c. 35. Gr. lat 29. ca. 36. Gr. ca. 30. lat Sozom. l. 6. ca. 18.20 Evagr. p. 2. c. 8. Socr. hist 13. l. 4. c. 10.33 Theo. l. 4. c. 6. Ambr. offic l. 1. Bils Christian Sub. part 2. pag. 28 2. Sozom. l. 7. cap. 8. Socrat. hâ—st l. 5. ca. 8. Iust in Novel Inst 223. cap. 28.9 Concil Toâ—â—â—an ca. 2â— Greg. epist. lâ—b 40. ca. 78. To Constantia the Empresse The Bishop of Salona was ordered neither â— nor any responsarie witting thereof which thing was never attempted under any of the Princes your predecessors c. Yet I obeying their graces Precepts did from my heart remit unto the said Maximus this his presumption as freely as if he had been ordered by my self c. Concil tom 2. Concil Parisien can 8. if at any time you can prove that all things were observed which I doe not beleeve Ambrose himselfe was chosen Bishop when he was onely Catechumenus before he was baptized so that he was constrained to teach that which himselfe had not learned yesterday catechised to day a Bishop The Election in all things not to be approved as consonant to the rule for the Canons were strong against it and Saint Paul seemeth not willing that a novice should be a Bishop but never thought or esteemed to be none at all Of the election of Nectarius see Sozomene and Socrates Iustinian ordained If any man build a Church or house of prayer and would have Clerkes
the mouth of one witnesse though his testimony were received yet may no man be condemned See Beza annot Maier in Matth. 18.7 both their owne and Neighbouring Churches so did the Ancients The Ordination of Bishops by themselves alone or their Chaplaines and that of many at a clap so did the Ancients The thrusting of Ministers upon the people without their knowledge or consent so did the Ancients The ordination of Ministers without cure or charge so did the Ancients The ignorance idlenesse pride luxurie pompe covetousnesse contention and schisme of such as thrust themselves rashly ambitiously profanely into offices by favour monie flatterie or other corruption so did the Ancients They reprove these and such like abuses and humbly seek and sue for reformation but tolerate what they cannot amend and hold communion with the Churches of God in the Ordinances of Religion and so did the Ancients And if the Ancients did neither lay the grounds of Separation nor walke contrary to their owne Principles in holding communion it is great ignorance at least to charge the Nonconformists as if they walked not according to their owne rules when they doe not separate Nay if the Non-conformists should not disallow both your positions and practice of Separation they should not walke agreeable to their owne Principles or the truth of Scripture For you hold the power of the keyes originaliter and executivè is given to the community of the faithfull many or few yea though but two or three joyned together in a Church way This the Nonconformists approve not You hold it is necessary and essentiall to the calling of a Minister that he be approved chosen and ordained only by that congregation where he is to administer This the Nonconformists altogether dislike You hold all Ministers that be not chosen and ordained after your forme propounded to be unlawfull Idol Antichristian Ministers This the Nonconformists judge to be Antichristian The consequence of your Positions is this That since the Church of the New Testament was established upon the earth there was scarce a true lawfull Ministerie to be found where with the faithfull might lawfully hold communion in the worship of God This the Non-conformists doe detest and abhorre Of other your positions in the Sections following SEC III. CAN. Stay against Stray Sect. 1. pag. 4 5. WHatsoever God hath bestowed upon his Church as her priviledge the same is to be found in his Word But it is not mentioned there that Beleivers as their priviledge ought to heare Antichristian Teachers The proposition is unquestionably certaine by these Scriptures Psal 19.7 2 Tim. 3.15.16 Isai 8.20 Ioh. 15.17 Act. 20.27 Besides Contra Gentes this is the unanimous consent of learned writers The Scriptures saith Athanasius doe helpe us with the knowledge of every truth c. The first part which is only controversall is evident and cleere Anno. in 1 Cor. 10. §. 21. in 1 Reg. cap 5. v. 19. by these Scriptures Levit. 17.3.4 Deut. 12.5 Prov. 5.8 Hos 4.15 Matth. 7.15 2 Cor. 7.15 16 17. Rev. 18.4 Song 1.6 7. To this all sorts of Writers assent Zanch. on Phil. 3.2 The Authors of the Admonition pag. 27 c. Yea the Papists themselves Rhemists and Doway Translators ANSWER THe sinewes of this Argument are cut already in the first Section if ever it had any and therefore a few words may now suffice In this reason you take for granted that which is most false little lesse than blasphemie to wit that all Ministers in the Church of England be Antichristian For they are in respect of the substance of their office the Ministers of Jesus Christ set apart to preach the Gospel dispense the Sacraments and administer the Discipline of the Lord Christ and many of them the approved servants of Christ furnished with gifts from above sent forth by authoritie to preach the Gospel of God and dispense his Sacraments which they faithfully execute according to commission received from their Lord and Master the King of the Church who worketh by them and blesseth their labours if ever ordinary Ministers had cause to speake of and rejoyce in the blessing of God to the praise of his name But to let that passe Antichristian Teachers if I must speak in your owne language be of divers sorts 1. Such as be not called in every point according to your platforme or at least whose calling is in any respect maymed or defective though they be godly learned painfull every way fit set apart by authority and approved by the Church If Antichristian Teachers be taken in this sense true Beleevers living in societies with them are bound to heare the Word and partake in the Sacraments because they be the ordinances of the Lord Jesus who is present knocking at the doore of the heart and will come in and sup with them that open unto him So long as wee teach the same doctrine which the Apostles did we have the same povver and authority to Preach which they had Bâ—s Chrill 〈◊〉 part 3. p. â— Look what reasons soever can be alledged to prove that Christians ought to joyne together in holy communion the same will strongly convince that ordinarily or occasionally we must hold societie with such Ministers in the ordinances of piety and godlinesse And if this Ministerie be Antichristian divers if not most worthy Martyrs of Jesus Christ that have withstood Antichrist unto blood have stood under some ordinances in their first originall Antichristian or of men in some respects which did not overthrow though it might be some blemish unto their Ministerie 2. Such as be not rightly called by men because not rightly furnished with gifts or faithfully executing their place or teaching erroneous doctrines and traditions of men but yet set apart to an office which is of God and in communion of men professing the true Faith are called Antichristian Ministers And if it be taken in this sense the faithfull are bound in conscience to heare such if they live in their societies because they be the Ministers of Christ in a sort though they be not approved of him and doe his worke for the good of them that be heires of salvation But in so doing they doe not communicate with the Ministers of Antichrists apostasie but with the Lord Christ in his holy ordinance by such meanes as he hath appointed Hieron l. 1. Com in Eph. ad Galat. cap. 1. Hierome noteth that there are foure sorts who are employed in the businesses and affaires of Almighty God The first such as are sent neither of men nor by men but by Jesus Christ The second such as are sent of God but by man The third are such as are sent of man and not of God who are they that are ordained by favour of Men not rightly judging of the quality of them who are to serve in this calling Who yet are not simply denyed to be sent of God as if they had not commission from him but
If the Church of Rome were not a Church in some respects but a meere Idoll the Pope could not be that Antichrist a principall rebell a notorious traitor against Christ If we speak absolutely or compare Rome with Churches truly Christian it is no true Church but the Synagogue of Satan But if we speake of it in opposition to the Jewes of Turkes or other professed Infidels it hath so much of a visible Church as a man cannot say it is no Church at all so much true doctrine is in it as sufficeth to support the title of Antichrist and some ordinances are so administred as that it cannot be said they are meer nullities In the true Church many wicked ones are found that are no lesse prophane sacrilegious enemies to peace the vassals of Satan possessed by the Divell dead in sin and accursed of God than heretiks or schismatiks who yet for that they have that order office or degree of ministerie which is holy doe no lesse nor with lesse effect administer the holy sacraments than those who are the samplars of all pietie and vertue The faithfull and holy Ministers administer and receive the Sacraments with good profit and benefit to themselves and others The hypocriticall with benefit to others not to themselves The prophane being not put from their places doe officiate with hurt to themselves scandall to others but to the everlasting comfort of them that partake worthily The hereticall and idolatrous administer the Sacraments that are holy and in their owne nature the meanes pledges and assurances of salvation but without benefit to themselves and others that continue in sin Thus the Prophets Apostles Martyrs and faithfull have held communion in the Ordinances of grace with such whose calling and conversation was not approved of God You say the Martyrs first and last would not receive this distinction lest to save their lives they should lose their soules and you reckon up many who as you write would rather give their bodies to the fire than heare or receive the Sacrament in false Churches or Societies But in this you lavish as in every thing else and hide the truth under the ambiguitie of the phrase The Martyrs laid downe their lives rather than they would defile themselves with idolatry bee present at the Masse or joyne themselves as members of that Antichristian Synagogue in all which they did as becommeth the faithfull servants of Jesus Christ But you cannot produce one Martyr of your opinion who denyed that any thing of God was to be found in those Assemblies or that refused to joyne in the pure ordinances of God with Societies separated from spirituall Babylon because of some defect or may me in their Church constitution In the whole Catalogue of Martyrs try if you can bring forth one who in these things was of your minde And what a vaine thing is it to pretend the example of all the Martyrs when there is not one among them that doth approve your cause If the example of the Martyrs be of any weight with you as here you beare the Reader in hand CAN Neces of separation p. 190 191 192. of necessitie you must condemne your rash and presumptuous censuring your unadvised sinfull separation from the worship and ministerie in our Church as Antichristian and Idolatrous For certaine it is the Martyrs stood members of our Societies and dyed in the defence of that doctrine and worship which we professe and practise Many words you spend in answer to this reason and reproaches you cast upon your adversarie but one word is not to be found that makes directly to take away the force of the Argument It was the answer of Frederick Duke of Saxonie who being prisoner to Charles the fifth and promised releasement if hee would goe to the Masse Summum in terris Dominum agnosco Caesarem in coclis Christum The like did the Prince of Condee but neither of them did refuse to joyne with the reformed Churches because they deemed their Church constitution defective or erroneous in this or that particular To pretend the consent of popish and protestant Divines in this matter is egregious ignorance or impudency for it is well knowne they are all generally of another minde Your instance from a City or Towne Similitudes bee no syllogismes Earthly similitudes of your making may not controll the heavenly precepts of Gods owne giving Bilson Christ part 4. pag. 322. Have you no surer ground of your catholike doctrine for adoring Images than a single similitude taken from the civill and externall reverence that is yeelded to Princes seates and seales Id p. 329. if the Civill power be usurped is not to the purpose nor true in all respects Not to the purpose because what is of God in these Societies is not done by power meerely usurped but by power and vertue from God though in the ministration that which is evill be not approved of God for wheresoever any supernaturall truth of Christian Religion is taught and any ordinances of grace dispensed truly for substance there is some truth of ministery though many wayes polluted And where the intire faith is professed and received and the ordinances of grace administred truly there is a true ministery for substance ordained of God what other defects or maimes soever it may labour under Not true because in the Civill estate That which is done by power usurped and unlawfull in some cases is a nullitie but in other some it is available and stands in force For it is a rule in the Civill law That it is one thing to be a true Magistrate another to bee in the Magistracy or to execute the Magistrates office From which distinction is gathered this generall ruled case or sentence That the acts of him that was a false or unlawfull Magistrate may be lawfull and just And the same may bee said and was ever held in the Church of God of corrupt and ungodly Ministers though they bee not true Ministers that is approved fit and rightly qualified yet so long as they be in the place of Ministers the acts of their ministery be good that is effectuall and of force if they observe the forme of administration prescribed by Christ CAN Stay Sect. 15. pag 133. The Lord hath not promised to them his blessing and acceptance what the Lord may accept or will we dispute not only this I say whosoever heareth in a false Church cannot by any promise that he hath in the word of God expect Gods blessing on that which he doth the reason is because a true constitution of a true Church that is where men are gathered according to the Gospell of Christ is that only lawfull religious societie or communion of Saints wherein God will be honoured whereby hee will bee served and whereto hee hath promised his presence and acceptance so then howsoever we are not bound unto hearing in a true Church necessitate medii as if Gods grace were tyed to the meanes this way
vvhat need is there to lay dovvne their false office I cannot say of this mans Logicke as Aristotle did of Theodorus his making Epithites It is his vvhole art CAN. Stay p. 27. that a man may remaine a Minister of a false Church all his life time provided hee onely teach the truths of the Gospell Our reason is for in this if he doe no idolatrous act then hee sinneth not and so consequently no just cause of his comming out from among them ANSWER Ill might you twit your adversarie with his little skill in Logicke unlesse it was done in policie to hide your own loosenes in this and the like arguments For though it be not an Idolatrous act to preach the truth of the Gospell in a false Church in other respects it may be sinne to continue a member in that societie and so also to teach the Gospels Truths As it may be scandalous and offencive an appearance of evill A man may doe that whereunto he is not called from an evill mind Also it may bee sinne to continue in a false Church though a man teach nothing but the truth of the Gospell because he cannot professe all maine and fundamentall truths or that border thereupon nor testifie against all corruptions grosse haereticall reallie Idolatrous which in Conscience cannot bee tolerated or borne withall without grosse hypocrisie or dissimulation or hee cannot keep himselfe from the tincture of Idolatrie in practicâ— As for example though it be not an Idolatrous act for a Popish Priest to preach the Gospell or administer the Sacraments of Baptisme yet it is not lawfull for a Christian to remaine as a member in that society because he cannot partake with them in the Ordinances but he shall commit reall Idolatrie or must dissemble many grievous and hatefull abominations which cannot bee dissembled and shall bee thought to bee of the same Religion with them or of no Religion c. The multitude of Authors which you quote against hearing false Prophets or continuing in false Churches doe they not give other reasons why wee ought to separate from them or doth any one ever lay this down as a truth or foundation of separation In the page following you alledge sixe reasons which you say may bee applyed against the going with others to an Idol ministerie Church or worship c. But if they bee of any strength this reason whereof now wee speake is nought worth for they are directly crosse Here you say If in preaching the truth of the Gospell he doe no Idolatrous act he sinneth not but there you say he sinneth many other wayes But in all this you take that for granted which we confidently denie sc That our Churches worship or Ministerie is false and Idolatrous And therefore taking the proposition in your sense we say It is not only lawfull but necessary to remaine Ministers or members of some Churches which lye under your censure as false and Idolatrous but indeed are the true Ministers and Churches of Iesus Christ graced with his presence covered with his banner and beautified with his Ordinances and tokens of love And that which you call an unblessed standing wee make no question but it is approved and blessed of Christ and therefore regard your reviling the lesse Can. Stay Sect. 5. Pag. 73. If a man performe an action in a state and of publike nature he is to be considered in respect of himselfe as is that state and according to the publike Ordinances For if the state be false and the officer unlawfull it is familisme for him to say I know this state is set up against the Lord Iesus Christ and every commer here to worship according to the constitution is an Idolater but I will have in my selfe a secret meaning from the rest Id. page 77. Seeing false Churches and false Ministers are reall Idols set up by earthly Princes c. Whosoever comes and bovves before those Idols cannot escape the just blame of Idolatry Id. pag. 73. This is a sure thing and let it bee noted No administration performed in a state and by a power and constituted office can be sought desired and received but in so doing the doer ipso facto really approves of that state power and office bee the same lawfull or unlawfull And as for any mans saying to the contrary it is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne Head and will prove as good as the miracles which Iannes and Iambres wrought even meanes to harden his owne heart and some others as they did Pharaohs by doing them ANSWER You say it is an easie thing to Conquer CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 66. Wee are no such Children as to give the cause so avvay CAN. Necess of sep p. 226. But this vvee cannot give him though hee begge it shamefully because the thing is othervvise as their ovvne vvritings manifest CAN. Stay Sect. 5. page 74. Calfeh against Mart art 3. page 86. if begging might procure it and if confident assertions will carrie a matter you will not goe without it But we must not be driven from the Church the Ordinances and worship of God communion with Christ and societie of Saints by an emptie blast of words No though you shamefully boast you have proved it by our owne writings Doe you thinke your bold impudent asseveration that any mans saying to the contrarie is sine capite fabula a vision of his owne head will make us by and by yeeld to your definitive sentence for which you can produce neither Scripture nor reason nor authoritie but your owne as if your ipse dixit Pope-like were to be rested in Wee are no such Children We are not to be feared with rattles You must bring better matter than your vaine fictions and sounder proofe than vaine repetitions of the same things over and over or else you must expect small credit to bee given unto your words They that joyn together in the worship of God Ambr. in Luk. 6. c. 9. Fides Ecclesiae imprimis quaerenda in quâ si Christus habitator sit haud dubiè legenda c. sed siqua est Ecclesia quae fidem respuat nec Apostolicae praedicationis fundamenta possideat ne quam labem perfidiae posâ—it aspergere deserenda est Sadeel de legit Minist vocat p. 6. Aug. Ex. 166. Our heavenly Master gave us vvarning before hand to make the people secure touching evill overseers lest for their sakes the chaire of vvholesome doctrine should be forsaken And Tract in Ioh. 46. The Lords fold hath some overseers that bee Children some that be hirelings ordinances of Religion they approve the faith protessed in points fundamentall the worship performed for the substance Ordinances administred and the truth of Ministerie for substance whereby these things are dispensed For of necessitie if the doctrine of salvation be restored the lawful use of the ministery is restored also Where God is truelie called upon in the Congregation and the Sacraments
Papists themselves who stand so much upon the necessitie of succession and ordination by three Bishops according to the constitutions of the Church Bellar. de Eccl. l. 3. c. 10. S. Ad Secundum are yet forced to acknowledge That to know that Pastors are true there is required neither faith not lawfull Election but this onely that they be acknowledged such of the Church and that they hold the place of Christ de facto though not de jure And seeing you pretend to build upon the Non-conformists principles you may take notice of their profession which is this Baptisme administred by Popish Priests is good and sufficient and they are to bee accounted for Ministers though they bee not good and lawfull Ministers but usurpers and intruders The like may be said of such as without ordinary calling An Examin of D. W. Cen. art 11 page 14. counterfeite themselves to be Ministers and so deceive the Church In these the secret consent of the Church receiving them for Ministers untill their wicked usurpation bee espied may be sufficient to authorize their ministery toward others CAN. Necess of Separ Page 234. If I were not unwilling to give occasion unto the Bishops to insult over these men I could hence manifest much bad dealing in them but I will forbeare for the present and do referre the Reader to their owne principles which is Jd. page 239. CAN. Necess of Separ p. 221. Are the Princes of the earth bound by Gods Lawes to maintaine the ordinary ministery of your Assemblies then have you from time to time shamfully mocked and abused them in craving so earnestly for their ayde to have and place thereof CAN. Stay Sect. 1. page 50. that all Ecclesiasticall officers ought necessarily to bee made by the free choyce of the Congregation wherein they are to administer And if they can prove all this I doe not see but the Controversie may easily be taken up betweene them and the Bishops only then they have just cause to begge pardon of them for their pleas against their Prelacy and the maine heavy accusations which they have put up both to Princes and Parliaments against them ANSWER Here you play the Rhetorician and make shew what you could doe but that you will for the present take some compassion upon the Non-conformists Whereunto I will returne no other answer than what you have made to my hand As for your minsing figure of extenuation I could hence manifest I like it not For you do here none otherwise than if a Thiefe when hee hath stript a man out of all that hee hath would faine yet bee counted mercifull in that he doth not murder him or binde him as some others have done Let any indifferent man read your writings and he will say you have not spared your opposites but shot at them Arrowes of bitter words and made them as odious and vile as man can do But blessed is hee that is not offended at the truth for such things Looke upon your selfe in that which you say against your opposites You referre your selfe to their Principles and they make nothing for you as it hath beene alreadly shewed and you might see your selfe if you did not shut your eyes The reason which here you bring is but your owne saying said over many times and indeed bewrayeth more cunning CAN. Stay §. 2. page 55. than reason truth or Consciene and to speake in your phrase sophistry than sincerity For in plaine termes this is your forme of arguing If the Episcopall ordination be not a meere nullitie Vnreasonabl of Separ page 54. I know none having received Ordination from the Prelates that need deny that they preach partly by vertue of the Ministery which they have taken from them T. C. repl 1. Ep. By exercising unlawfull authority and by taking unto them partly such things as belong by no meanes unto the Church and partly which are common unto them with the whole Church or else with others the Ministers and Governours of the same if the ministerie of the idle carelesse prophane yea of the learned godly and painefull be not a meere Idol then have the Non-conformists just cause to begge pardon of the Prelates which hangeth together as a rope of sand The ministery of the Priests Scribes and Pharisees was true in time of the Old Testament and in the dayes of our Saviour Christ had the Prophets then and our Saviour just cause to beg pardon because they accused them of ignorance pride tyrannie contempt of the truth oppressions hypocrisie as blind guides and ravening Wolves who spoyled and made havocke of the flockes The Non-conformists never deemed the ministery of the Church of England for the substance and essentiall parts therof to be false and Idolatrous nor craved the aide of the Prince and Parliament to have it quite or in part abolished you have just cause to begge pardon that slander them in this manner But they complaine of abuses in the ministery and these they desire might be reformed That the ministery might be more pure and incorrupt They complaine of the usurpation of some who challenge that as peculiar to themselves which belongeth to their brethren in common who admit the basest of the people into the office of the ministerie doe that by their sole pleasure which should be done by common Counsell King Canutus made a Lavv by the Counsell of his sages at Winchester That Bishops be Preachers and Teachers of Gods Law and carefull followers of good works Leg. 26. And that every Christian learne so much that he can the true faith and the true understanding therof namely the Lords Prayer and the Creed or else not to have Christian buriall neither to bee admitted whiles he liveth to the Lords Table c. Amb. de dignit sacerdot ca. 3. Quantò prae caeteris gradus Episcopalis altior est tanto si per negligentiâ—m dilabadur ruina gravior est Magna sublimitas magnam debet habere cautelam CAN. Stay S. 12. p. 120 Honor grandis grandiori debet soliciâ—udine circumvallors and disregard the consent and approbation of the Church both in Ordinations and excommunications and if the ministery of the Church of England be true for substance might they not without blame desire and crave the reformation of this abuse they complaine of the pompous Non-residents who feede themselves and regard not the flocke strive after preferment and heape up livings but labour not in the word and doctrine nor look after the welfare of mens soules they accuse these as the poyson and bane of the Church or unfaithfull shepheards who leave the flock to be dispersed and scattered and yet they will not say their ministery is false or Idolatrous or a meere nullitie doe they then shamefullly mocke or abuse the Prince or Parliament in petitioning that this grosse corruption might be reformed They accuse the ignorant carelesse prophane Ministers of neglect of their office and unworthy any place
or standing of honour in the house of GOD have they cause to aske pardon of this also if they shall thinke their ministerie may be effectuall to the faithfull A Minister lawfully called say you according to Christs institution is incontinently upon his outward lawfull calling a true Minister let his practices afterward be good or bad Put case then the Church should accuse such a Minister utterly neglecting his charge or inclining to say Masse and Mattens or loose and scandalous in behaviour as unworthie his place and office have they just cause to crave pardon of him because they acknowledged him to be a Minister but unworthily Many abuses not to be tolerated may cleave to the Ministery when the ministerie it selfe is not to be cast off as altogether ineffectuall SECTION 9. CAN Necess of Separ pag. 27.28 The Learned generally affirme Rhem. annoâ— in Iâ— 10. anno 1. and in 1. Cor. 10. Sect. 22. that it is unlawfull to communicate in a false ministery Par. Com. in Matth. 7.15 All those without doubt are to bee taken for deceivers who take upon them the office of teaching without a true calling and a little after he saith That so much being discouered 〈◊〉 Christian must 〈◊〉 hid â—are against them Dow. in a Reg. 5. v. 19. and Psal 15. p. 56. Admon 1. to the Parliament p. 27. T. C. reply 1. pag. 83.155 CAN. Stay p. 5.62 63 71 113 118 119 c. and flye from them as from Wolves Musculâ—â— in Matth. 7.15 saith the like Cope in Prov. 10.20 speaketh as much and giveth this reason for it because they destroy both bodies and soules of aâ— many as eâ—t her beâ—eeve or reverence them Zanch in Phil. 3.2 Ralloc com in 1 Thes 5.11 page 228. Riv. in Psal 16. page 52.53 Oecolamp in Isa â—â—2 fol. 20. Cal. in Psal 16. Fen. in Song 1.6.7 Cornel. a Lapid Com. in Iohn Ep. 2. page 505. saith False Ministers are favoured and approved in their unlawfull way when they are boundâ— Par. in Hosea 13.2 Sedul in 2 Reg. 5. Mâ—â—ty loc comâ—p 119 Virels Grounds in lib. 2. p. 103. Zanch in â—rac 3. p. 534. ANSWER Blaming your Treatiser that he comes so naked into the field CAN Stay Sect. 12. p. 119. you say I never saw in my life an error held by a man of Learning that hath lesse brought to countenance it than this For whereas others doe commonly quote Scriptures albeit mis-applyed and alledge for themselves the judgements of other men Hieron in Psalm 5. Omnâ— qui maâ—è intillig it Scripturas in via Dei corruit He goeth not this way to worke And better it is to goe plainely and simply to worke in the defence of his cause than to wrest Scripture mis-alledge Authors and abuse a show of Learning to seduce and beguile the simple But you have made choyse of the more common though the most sinfull course You pretend Scriptures but handle them amisse Quote Authors but chop and change their words force them to speake what they never meant and when all is done they will bee found to make nothing for but direct against you Ambr. Intus in animo perdant modo victores abscedant CAN. Necess of Separ p. 227. Tertul. de Virgi veland If Christ wâ—re ever afore all the truth is as ancieâ—â— and everlsting You make use of Logicall Maximes and Theologicall Principles but your mistakes are grosse and palpable in the application of them Some men you say in matters of controversie care not though they lose the peace of Conscience so they may gaine their supposed victory And if you have not offered violence to your Conscience in those writings you have not advisedly considered what you have done To make this manifest in some particulars not formerly mentioned It is an infallible Maâ—ime you say as Doctor Vsher and others observe out of Tertulliâ—n Whatsoever is first that is truest and what comes after is adulterate CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 14. Vsher de Christ Eceles success stat c. 1. p. 19 Field of the Ch. lib. 2. c. 5. page 49. CAN. Stay sect 2. p. 11. For with reverence to the phrase From the beginning it was not so Basil ep 79. Non est aequum ut quae apud ipsos obtinuit consuetudo pro lege canone habeatur rectae doct inae Henry Answ first ans p. 31. I grant your Church is ancient but I deny it to be most ancient seeing then the most ancient by your own grant is most true c. CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 27. T. C. repl 1. p. 79. D. T. W. The Doctors of the Synod 5.6 Warres are judged by their causes and not by their consequences Bilson Christian subject part 3. page 201. The first in any kind or sort of things is truest and best so Field This is spoken of the prime first originall being of each thing which is a sure proofe of goodnesse and perfection For all defects found in things are swarvings declinings and departures from their originall and first estate For truth is before false-hood and good before evill and habite before privation But you miserably apply that Rule to the first judgment of the separated Church in London concerning the hearing of the Word preached in our English Assemblies as if it must bee truest because it was first and their after judgement adulterate because it followed You distinguish not betwixt the effect and the event which I will not say was done ignorantly or unadvisedly To reason from the effect of things you say is unsound and unconcludable by the Scriptures This is as if a man would say the Midwives which lyed to Pharoah did much good to the Israelites c. And then you goe forward to produce testimonies that things are to be esteemed by their causes and not by the event and that things are not true because usefull But your Pistoler argueth from the effect not from the event from the proper effect not the effect by accident as you might easily perceive but that you tooke liberty to deride what you could not answer Thus he argueth The Doctrine taught in the Church of England is the sound and true doctrine of salvation profitable to beget faith and to build men forward unto life eternall not by accident but of it selfe and is ordinarily blessed of God to that end and purpose Therefore it is not unlawfull to heare the word preached in their assemblies What you talke of Caines murder Iudas his Treachery the good that comes by Schismes and Heresies is only to please your selfe with by-matters for the argument is drawne from the proper effect in respect of meanes instituted appointed and blessed of God This Canon is true if truly applyed and rightly limited CAN. Stay sect 4. p. 20. and sect 10. p. 111. parium par ratio est contrariorum eadem est ratio But as you apply it no good Logician would acknowledge it For though the
against Martiall Preface to the reader Bellarm. lib. 3. de justifi c. 8. Non potest aliquid certuÌ„ esse certitudine fidei nisi aut immediate contineatur in verbo Dei aut ex verbo Dei per evidentem consequentiaÌ„ deducatur Park de pol. Eccl. l. 1. c. 1.4 Separabant se sacerdotes et Levitae qui Deum timebant 2 Chro. 11.14 Atqui haec separaâ—â—o ab Israelitis idolatris erar quâ— legemcult umque Dei per idola Ieroboam fundamentaliter sustulerunt Aug. de unit eccl c. 16. Let the Donatists if they can shew their Church not in rumors and speeches of the men of Africa nor in the couÌ„cels of their Bishops nor in the discourses of any writer whatsoever nor in the signes and miracles that may be forged but in the prescript of the Law in the predictions of the Prophets in the verses of the Psalmes in the voyces of the Shepheard himselfe c. that all devised false and idolatrous worship is to be abhorred is confessed and professed by Conformists and Nonconformists It is a constant received position That nothing ought to be tolerated in the Church as necessary unto salvation or as an article of faith except it be expresly contained in the word of God or manifestly to be gathered therefrom and that all ceremonies are to be rejected wherein there is placed opinion of merit worship or necessitie to salvation But that the worship tendred to God in the English Congregations is devised false idolatrous that the Nonconformists never said nor thought and whosoever shall rashly affirme it he shall never be able to make proofe thereof by the word of God If any rite prescribed in the book of Common-prayer be worship in the use thereof the word being taken in a large signification that is not so in the intention and profession of the Church nor apprehended to be so in them that conforme unto it neither doth it defile the worship of God to them that joyne in the ordinances of grace notwithstanding the corruption which in their judgement is annexed to it and practised by some For notwithstanding such corruption or abuse the worship it selfe is that which God hath prescribed approved blessed to them that seeke his face aright and serve him unfeignedly whereat he requireth our presence and wherein he hath promised to sup with us and we with him That the Non-conformists should affirme the worship of God or ministery in the English Assemblies to be as false idolatrous and unlawfull as was the worship of Jeroboam at Dan and Bethel is a most lewd and impudent slander which the sworne shavelingâ— of Antichrist whose profession is to lye and slander for the catholique cause would blush to vent You know it is contrary to their judgement practice prosession and protestations many times renewed Whether the phrase be tolerable or no if you will be prodigall to pawne your head in this case take heed lest you loose it not in Gods cause but in your owne And if you shall be desperate herein your forwardnesse will move no wise man for Religion is to be learned from the truth of God and not from the high adventures of inconsiderate men The Non-conformists can prove the Religion and worship of the Church of England to be of God not by petty reasons and colourable shewes which they leave to them that maintaine a bad cause but by pregnant evidence from the word of truth not by similitudes allegories and forced interpretations of Scripture as you dispute against it but by plaine texts of Scripture and sound reason deduced therefrom against which the gates of hell shall never prevaile The Author of that Booke Bilson Christ subject part 4. p. 349. This is the doubt betwixt us whether we should coÌ„tent our selves with such meanes as he hath devised for us and coÌ„mended unto us thereby daily to renew the memory of our Redemption or else inveÌ„t others of our own heads fit perhaps to provoke us to a naturall and humane affection but not fit to instruct ourfaith c. He knowing that images though they did intertaine the eyes with some delight yet might they snare the souls of many simple silly persons and preferring the least seed of sound faith beholding adoring him in spirit truth before all the dumbe shewes and Imagerie that maÌ„s wit could furnish to win the eye Can. Neces of Separat c. 2. p. 78 79. 254. according to a prescript form culled out of the blasphemous Mass-book 238. That which was takeÌ„ out of the vile Masse-booke c. Sold. â—aâ—w T. C. repl 1. pag. 130. Abridg. p. 89. Adm. 1. p. 9. 2. Adm. p. 41. Fall of Babyl â—9 Altar Damasc pag. 612 613. Syons plea. 29. Perth Assemb 64. Syons plea. 30. pag. 40. 〈…〉 intituled The course of Conformitie sheweth that the Israelites might in generall pretend for Jeroboams calves the same excuses that were made in defence of some corruptions thrust upon the Church of Scotland but the corruptions he doth not make to be like nor the pretences to be of equall validitie nor the state of the Church where such corruptions are tollerated to be the same with the state of the Israelites who worshipped the Calves Abuses that agree in the generall nature of abuse may be coloured with the same pretences when they be not of the same weight qualitie or degree the one may be small the other hainous The same distinction may be brought to countenance the vilest heresie and a petty errour if I may so speake Heresie and Idolatry are both talkative and who doubts but corrupt wits can say much in defence of both shall we thence conclude that errour or heresie are both one every abuse is grosse idolatry The Author you quote was not so unadvised His drift was onely to shew the vanitie of such excuses and not to match the things pleaded for with Jeroboams Idolatry as hath been shewed before But let us see whether you can alledge any colourable shew or petty reason to prove our worship to be false and idolatrous The whole forme of the Church-service is borrowed from the Papists peiced and patched together without reason or order of edification yea not onely is the forme of it taken from the Church of Antichrist but surely the matter also For none can deny but it was culled and picked out of that popish dunghill the portius and vile Masse-booke full of all abhominations From three Romish Channels I say was it raked together namely the Breviarie out of which the common prayers are taken out of the Rituall or booke of Rites the administration of the Sacraments Buriall Matrimony Visitation of the sick are taken and out of the Masse-booke are the Consecration of the Lords Supper Collects Gospels and Epistles And for this cause it is that the Papists like so well of the English Masse for so King James used to call it and makes them say Surely the Romish is the true and
doe nothing but reade as that which makes men neglect the preaching of the Word therefore a prescript Liturgie is disliked To appoint or use a prayer conceived or stinted as the Papists doe their Mattens and Evensong for a set service to God howsoever it be uttered ignorantly for custome with lips onely alone or with others in publique or private as if the rehearsall of such words though neither understood nonheard were an acceptable service from l Bils Christ subject part 4. p. 416. Your maine foundation is a dreame of your owne that the Church of Corinth had a prescribed nuÌ„ber of prayers pronounced by some one Chapsaine that said his lessoÌ„ within book and might not goe one line besides his Missale for any good This you imagine was their Church-Service all other prayers Psalmes blessings thankesgivings though they were used openly in the Congregation and the whole people bound to say Amen you will not have to be called Church-service which he must not depart one word for any good is a superstition justly to be condemned Thus to repeate the words of a prayer though never so good and holy is not to pray But this makes nothing against the lawfull holy religions use of a stinted forme of prayer publique or private which is that we plead for And this is all that can be gathered from the Author of the Admonition There needs no great skill to discerne the inconsequence of this manner of arguing which here you use To use a stinted forme as the Papists doe for a set-service is naught though the words be good therefore a stinted or prescribed forme is altogether unlawfull And put case some private or singular person hath spoken roughly in heate and passion of the Booke of Common-prayer or seemed to disallow the stinted use of a publike found of prayer or Liturgie his speech or position delivered as his private conceite and perhaps not rightly apprehended must not be interpreted the principle of the Nonconformists contrary to the tenour of their writing profession and practice much lesse must his words be racked contrary to his meaning as if he condemned all stinted Liturgies as falso deâ—ised and idolatrous worship or did leane unto favour or uphold the practice of separation from the assemblies because such Liturgies are in use among them Howsoever by the grounds of the Nonconformists laid downe in the second section Sect. 3 Can. Neces of Separat pag. 92 93 94 c. to 98. separation must necessarily follow from all communion with them in the worship of their Church-service-booke yet to have the point more fully proved I will here shew that every particular thereof is affirmed of themselves to be idolatrous false Antichristian Touching the Booke we may consider two things First The distinct services thereof Secondly The Ceremonies used in and about the same Wee will speake first of their Ceremonies that is of the Crosse Surplice and Kneeling in the act of receiving the Lords Supper Against these many Treatises have beene purposely written I will here onely observe some of their speeches referring the Reader to their Bookes if he desire more satisfaction c. Voluntary separation from the ordinances of Religion in our assemblies Answer is neither commanded by God nor taught by the Prophets or Apostles It is not approved by the practice of the Saints nor grounded upon the principles of the Nonconformists as hath beene shewed That there be m A disputation against the English-popish c. Epistle to the Reformed Churches In England Ireland every noysom weed which Gods hand never had planted was not pulled up c. Sprint repl to the answ pag. 269. acknowledgeth the reformatioÌ„ of England to have been defective abuses and corruptions in the Booke the Nonconformists doe not deny and therefore in all humilitie they have sought to have them reformed but that they affirme the whole service thereof to be idolatrous false Antichristian that is your impudent slander That many Treatises have been written against the Ceremonies imposed upon the Ministers and people is very true But in the relation which you make out of them these few things must be observed First what is spoken of one Ceremony you apply to all when there is not the same reason of all in the judgement of them that wrote Secondly what they write of the Ceremonies as they are used amongst the Papists that you report as if they understood it of the use of the Ceremonies as they are imposed and injoyned amongst us Thirdly The private opinion of one you alledge as if it was the common principle of the Nonconformists though you doe or might know that generally they are of another mind Fourthly Amongst your chiefest Nonconformists you alledge such as be not English-Nonconformists nor speake of English-Conformitie but that which was lately brought in among themselves whose case doth much differ from ours in their judgement But the further examination of these things is needlesse let us heare how from these principles of the Nonconformists you can conclude the necessitie of Separation From all which Can. Neces of Sepâ—rat pag. 98. this argument may be framed That worship in which a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne he is bound necessarily to separate from But that worship in which these Idolls are made and used viz. the Crosse Surplice and Kneeling a man cannot possibly communicate without sinne Therefore from that worship wherein these Idols are made and used a man is bound necessarily to separate The proposition is certaine and by Doctor Ames in his cases of Conscience acknowledged Although saith n Lib. 4. cap. 24. he we may joyne to that Church in which many defects are to be tolerated yet not to that in which we cannot but necessarily partake in sinne The Assumption is assented unto by as o Parker Crosse lib. 1. pag. 20. 21. judicious and zealous Nonconformists as ever held that cause and they have brought good proofes for it First because men must flie from Idols and Idolothites But when they come to worship God after the order of the Congregation where these things are practised they doe not flie from them but draw neere unto them Secondly Their bare presence argues their approbation and yeelding in shew to Ceremonies Thirdly p Mr. Bates p. 258. Though the personall sinnes of the Minister doe not hurt the people yet his ministeriall and publique sinnes doe hurt which he performes for the people to God and so their joyning with him is unlawfull Fourthly What example can be brought where the holy men of God have communicated with such things The Author of the dispute upon communicating at thier confused Communions affirmes confidently that the sitter is accessary to the sinne of the keeler and he gives many reasons for it whereof wee shall have a fit occasion hereafter to speake Can any man beleeve Answer that the Nonconformists say both parts of your reason are true viz. That a man
c. Is any thing here spoken peculiar to the members of the Church at the first planting thereof which doth not hold true of the members of the Church established and confirmed Are not the wicked at all times forbidden to meddle with the ordinances of God uncapable of the covenant spiritually dead not fit to have place in the house of God And if this hold true against such members of the Church at all times why doe you beare the Reader in hand That you onely plead against the first building of a Church of such wiâ—â—ed and ungodly persons * Can. Neces of Separat pag. 194 195. The Question you say hath ever been about the true and naturall members whereof Gods Church is orderly gathered and planted and not about the degenerate and decayed estate thereof But if any of these Reasons will conclude ought there was never societie to be esteemed the true church of God all whose members were not Saints and holy spiritually enlived fit to performe the duties of members fitted prepared and laid orderly in the building married to the Lord Christ What you hold that is not materiall in this point but what your Arguments conclude for if they inferre one thing and you maintaine another of necessitie they are weake or you are crosse to your selfe or both * Can. Neces of Separat pag. 195. If they shall say thus you write that obstinate and incorrigible sinners may lawfully be suffered therein This we affirme to be untrue But if they say that in a true visible Church there may be great evills committed you and along time tolerated we assent unto it Howbeit it is certaine as Dr. Ames faith This forbearance is a grievous sinne before God Of the lawfull toleration of obstinate and incorrigible persons we have no controversie with you But if any one reason here be brought by you to the purpose it cannot be the true Church of God where any one obstinate knowne offender is suffered or which hath not right to the holy things of God That the members of the Church ought to walke in holinesse you need not prove but that the Congregation cannot be the true Church of God where such things are suffered as ought not to be And yet your Reasons goe higher than so For if they be duely examined whether doe they speake of such as be truly holy or onely visibly holy Saints and faithfull in the fight of God or onely in the eyes and approbation of men Onely the Saints are capable of the Covenant spiritually alive unto God married unto Jesus Christ and have communion with him onely they are hewen fitly prepared and layd truely upon the spirituall foundation onely their service is accepted of God in Jesus Christ It is nothing here to answer the members of the Church are such in the judgement of charitie For in the degenerate state the Church doth not ever consist of such as you confesse and your reasons here speake of them that be such indeed in the judgement of truth quickned by the Spirit acceptable to God Saints by Covenant the living members of Jesus Christ and so heires of salvation And if we looke into this matter more narrowly the conclusion fighteth with the premisses and doth manifestly overturne what you would build Psal 50.16 Moller in Psal 50.16 The wicked are expresly forbidden to meddle with the Covenant But those wicked ones to whom the Lord speaketh at that time more visible members of the true Church The wicked make the Church of God you say a Synagogue of Satan Sodome c. And doth not the Prophet call them Princes of Sodome Isa 1.10 and people of Gomorrah who were the people of God by covenant members of the true Church Doe they provoke God to spew them out of his mouth or to remove his Candlesticke But untill he remove his Candlesticke or spew them out of his mouth they continue his Church and people Ezek. 16.45 46 47 c. Rebellious Judah justified her Sisters Sodome and Samaria and yet shee continued the Church of God when they were cast off A tree unhewen and unprepared is unfit matter for an house and so are tares blasted corne and dry eares to grow together in the field with good corne as wheat c. But the house ceaseth not to be an house though a piece of timber unprepared be put into it or the corne field to be a field of corne because the tares are suffered to abide untill the harvest A dead man cannot perform the office of a living member but instrumentally he may doe the office of a member or he may be an instrument which the head is pleased to use for the good of the body otherwise no hypocrite who is spiritually dead could be any means of good unto the societie No wicked man is spiritually married unto Christ nor hypocrite but hypocrites and wicked men may be members of the societie which in respect of externall covenant is married unto Christ or else the Church of the Jewes was not beloved of him The godly and wicked are lead by different causes and so are hypocrites and sincere Christians but they may be linked together in the same outward societie Hypocrites you confesse are members of the Church untill they be dissevered and cast out But the upright and the double-hearted are contraries lead by different causes and so uncapable of the same forme to use your phrases SECT IV. FOr this we have the judgement of the learned also Can. Neces of Separat pag. 178. In Psal 15. There must be saith Mollerus a profession of true Religion and obedience yeelded thereto at least outwardly to become a member of the visible Church Beza saith Anno. in Act. 2.40 He is rightly joyned to the Church which separates himselfe from the wicked Paul calls the Romanes Saints saith Aretius to put a difference betweene their former estate wherein they lived In Rom. 1.7 Vol. thes theolog pag. 256. which was unholy and impure and the condition to which they were now called Piscator affirmes the matter of a particular Church to be a company of Beleevers c. ANSVVER YOu may easily bring heapes of testimonies for that which these Authors affirme For I suppose there is not Marke what care S. Augustine will have observed how when discipline should bee used August contr Parmenian lib. 3. ca. 2. If contagion of sin have invaded a multitude the mercifull severitie of correction from God himselfe is necessary Nam concilia separationis inania sunt perniciosa atque sacrilega c. nor ever was godly orthodox Divine of another judgement But that which they say and you maintaine are incompatible Their Assertion is taught in Scripture professed by the godly learned in all ages and is most evident to right reason illuminated by faith But that which you contend for is neither taught in Scripture nor confirmed by reason or professed by godly and learned Authors