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A19031 An advertisement concerning a book lately published by Christopher Lawne and others, against the English exiled Church at Amsterdam. By Richard Clyfton teacher of the same church Johnson, Francis, 1562-1618. 1612 (1612) STC 5449; ESTC S118626 88,142 134

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rejoycing one vvith another 1 Cor. 12 22-26 And furthermore hovv it vvas also affirmed that in cases of question and controversie the greater part of the people though vvithout against all the Elders and other brethren are the bodie and the Church there spoken of yea though they be in errour c. And novv in their exceptions pleading about it they speak of the whole Congregation and of the bodie of the Congregation in an opposition against the Eldership and so seeme here to imply also such an understanding thereof Touching all which it were long to rehearse eyther what reasoning vve had or vvhat might be shevved about these poynts But some fevve things I vvill note thereabout And first if this rule befound in the book of Numbers and lavves of Israel as by the doctrine allegations aforesaid appeareth then is it not a nevv rule first given in Mat. 18.17 as vvas held and urged both often and earnestly among us Secondly these Scriptures in the book of Numbers speak of civil cases and government and yet vvhen vve alledge these or the like about the Elders as they doe about the people they except against us as if vve misapplyed the Scriptures and give the Elders civill authoritie vvhich I suppose they vvill not give to the people though they make such allegations about them in this question as vve doe about the Elders Num. 15.33 27.2 35.12 Thirdly touching these Scriptures and the like it is certaine that the sinners and pleas in Israel vvere brought before the Congregation of Elders to be judged by them as may appeare by these Scriptures them selves being compared vvith Num. 36.2 Deut. 19.12.17 and 1.12.16 and 16.18 and 17 8-12 Iosh 20.4.5.6 1 Sam. 2.25 2 Chron. 19 5-11 Psal 82 1-6 Mat. 5.22 Lnk. 22.66 Act. 6.12 c. Moreover Num. 15.33 and 27.2 tvvo of the Scriptures alledged speak of the people of Israel vvhen they vvere in the wildernes vvhere they vvere sixe hundred thousand men beside children Exod. 12.37 And would they have us thinke that this people came together to hear examine and judge the cases of sinne and question there spoken of or that the parties there mentioned were brought or came unto all that Congregation as they vvould have the causes of sinne and sinners to be brought unto the vvhole Church and congregation among us yea and the people to be bound to come judge the brethrens causes that doe fall out from time to time And for the third Scripture so alledged by them Num. 35.12 if it be compared vvith Deut. 19 4-12 it maketh the poynt yet more playne against them selues For Moses speaking of one and the same matter in both those places Num. 25.12 useth in the one place the vvord Congregation in the other the terme of Elders as if he vvould himself tell us that he speaks of the Congregation of Elders Deut. 19.12 To vvhich end also see Iosh 20.4.5.6 where the same matter is againe spoken of Deut. 19 15-18 vvhere after the treating of the former matter he giveth a generall rule for the cases that might fal out among them And vvhether novv vve should beleeve Moses or them let themselves judge Touching the phrase of the Kingdome of heaven Mat. 18.1 c. Mat. 18.1 c. hovvsoever many have ben caryed thereby to think that this is a nevv rule and perteyning onely to the Churches of the Gospel since Christ and that the people now are otherwise interessed in the Churches government then they vvere in Israel of old yet it is evident that the same phrase is also spoken of the state and Church of the Ievves Mat. 22.2 c. and that therefore such collections from this manner of speach are not sound And vvhat is there here taught by Christ that the Iewes should not be carefull to observe asvvell as vve Should not they be humble and harmlesse as litle children and so enter into the kingdome of heaven Mat. 18 1-4 with Psal 131.1.2 Prov. 15.33 and 16.19 and 18.12 and 25.6.7 1 Sam. 12.3.4 Psal 138.6 Should they not avoyd giving offiences to others vvhen others offended thē should they not deale with them and shevve them their sinne And if they did not repent and amend bring them to the Congregation of Elders to be further dealt vvith according to their demerit Or if they did repent forgive them Mat. 18 5-22 with Lev. 19.14.16.17.18 Deut 19 15-19 and 21 18-21 and 25 5-9 with Ruth 3 9-13 and 4 1-13 1 Sam. 2.25 Esa 58.6.7 And further in the same chapter it may be observed Mat. 18.23 c. that Christ teaching hovv God requireth men to forgive one another their sinnes under the similitude of a king taking account of his servants propoundeth it by the same phrase of the kingdome of heaven And this also is a dutie vvhich God required of the Ievves alvvayes asvvell as of us novv Lev. 19.18 Exod. 23 4.5 Psal 7.4 Act. 7 26. And in the next chapter Mat. 19.13.14 Christ speaking of litle childrē that vvere brought unto him sayth that of such is the kingdome of heaven VVhich vvas alvvayes true of the infants and children of the Ievves as of ours novv But if any vvould gather hereupon for babes and litle children as some doe for the men vvomen greater childrē upon the like maner of speach that therefore they are to have a hand in the Churches government and that the causes of sinne and question falling out in the church should be brought unto them asvvell as to the Elders and they bound to be present to hear and judge all such causes arising among the brethren I suppose the people them selves that hold the former opinion and make such collections to maynteyne it for the vvhole Congregation yet vvould think it absurd thus to reason about the lesser children although they be of the bodie of the Congregation that of such also is the kingdome of heaven Againe in the next chapter save one Mat. 21.43 Matthevv sheweth hovv Christ sayd that the kingdome of God should be taken from the Ievves and given to the Gentiles a nation that should bring forth the fruits thereof Mat. 21 43. So as then by the doctrine of Christ himself it is one and the same kingdome of God under vvhich the Ievves vvere vve novv are The differences about some vvorldly ceremoniall and mutable things neyther doe nor can carrie vvith them an abolition of the things spirituall morall and perpetuall Neyther may vve at any hand or under any pretence suffer our selves to be made aliants from the common vvealth of Israel as is noted before For the other Scripture 1 Cor. 12. chap. 1 Cor. 12 chap. the Apostles purpose is not there to speak of the cases and pleas about sinne and of the maner of dealing therein as in Mat. 18.15 16 17. and as our question vvas among us but of the diversitie and inaequalitie of gifts
I was with him shewing great trouble in minde yet not without comfort in the Lord whose servant I doubt not but he dyed The vvords uttered by him and other circumstances mentioned in the Letter aforesaid vve spare yet to set dovvne as vve vvould also still have done the thing it self but that vve are thus continually provoked hereunto and that vve hope it vvill be for the good of others to stay them from such courses and above all to the glorie of God vvhich is to be observed and acknovvledged in all his vvorks And vvhereas it is so often objected by M. Bernard M. Hall M. White Christopher Lawne and others that the Pastors brother vvas excommunicated among us and his father also it is to be noted that yet never a one of them hath undertaken to shevve the causes to be unjust or the thing unlavvfull Nay vvhen Mr. VVhite made it one head of his book to except vvhat he could about the excommunications that had passed in this Church and vvrote of sundrie persons their causes in particular yet it may be observed that he doth not so much as once offer to insist upon theirs vvhich of all others no doubt he vvould most of all have done if he had thought he could have made any plea thereabout And vvho vvill not consider that such as vvould thus blame the excommunicating of any persons should first be able and carefull to shevv the causes thereof and the proceeding against them to be unjust For othervvise if they be just and lavvfull so as none can except thereagainst it is the more godly and commendable though accompanied vvith greater tryall vvhen neyther father nor mother brother nor sister sonne nor daughter are spared As in the Scriptures vve read hovv Moses commended and God blessed Levi for not knovving his ovvne father or mother brethren or children but observed the vvord of God and did his vvill against them though it vvere to the inflicting of death upon them Deut. 33.8.9 with Exod. 32 26-29 Eyther therefore let men by the vvord of God disprove the causes and proceeding in the excommunications they except against at any time or els being not able so to doe the more they vvrite against us the more it maketh for us in deede and so vvill be observed by them that are vvise according to godlynes Besides seeing the parties here spokē of are novv departed this life if M. Iohnson should vvrite any thing about thē by vvhich they should novv be foūd blame vvorthy vvho can not perceive that this then also vvould be abused against him and that men vvould not stick to saye that novv he might speak vvhat he vvould of them vvhen they vvere not living to ansvver for themselves and that although they vvere novv dead so neare unto him as they vvere yet he vvould vvrite thus and thus of them c. For they that spare not so to abuse him as novv they do even about things publikely heard and knovven vvhereof there are so manie vvitnesses yet living hovv vvould they much more abuse any thing that he should novv say or vvrite concerning them vvhen they are gone and departed this life They that observe hovv he and the rest of us are dealt vvithall vvill consider these things And it shall be good for him and us all to possesse our soules vvith pacience to vvaite on the Lord trusting in his mercie making our refuge in the shadovve of his vvings till our calamities be overpast and that it please the Lord to save us from the reproch of them that vvould svvallovve us up For doubtles God vvill send forth his mercie and his truth as he hath hitherto graciously delivered our soules from death our feet from falling that vve may vvalke before him in the light of the living Psal 57. The other that vvrote in like sorte as these have done vvas Thomas White spoken off before vvho after his living here and vvriting so ungodly as he did returned and lived a Minister at London under the Prelates vvhere vvhen he had after some vvhile gottē a benefice in such sort as he did the Lord soon ended his daies These things I thought thus briefly to mention being it may be of some not regarded as they should And hovv ever the Lord spare such mē let thē goe on in their course a vvhile yet in the end if they repent not his hand vvill finde them out and bring their vvaies upon their ovvn heads as throughout the Scriptures vve may read Psal 52. 55 12.13.14.15-23 But novv omitting to vvrite any thing more of them that have thus dealt vvith us leaving them to the Lord I vvill proceede to the next and last speciall matter vvhich at this time I purpose to speake of And that is about the persons spoken of in this last book vvho of late divided them selves from us and have since that time given forth some exceptions and Articles of difference both here at Amsterdam and othervvhere Here they gave out some vvhich vve heard of but never had copie of them untill novv that these men have printed them being taken as they say from the originall copie Othervvise also they have given out the like in letters sent into England as vve have heard by meanes of one there to vvhom they sent had certaine knovvledge thereof vvho dealt more godly and indifferently thereabout then any other of them that have in such sorte ben possessed and praejudiced against us And as that party dealt vvell vvith us in acquainting us vvith those things vvhich thus covertly vvere vvritten given out against us so did vve also for his better satisfying vvrite unto him againe in particular thereabout The vvhich both Articles and Ansvveres thereunto vve haue thought good to keep them by our selues hitherto But seeing that other the like in effect though increased in nūber are thus published to the vvorld and that therein they have not as they ought handled justifyed the causes for vvhich they separated from us vvhich vvere annexed at the end of the treatise upon Mat. 18.17 and shall also be againe annexed here but haue gone about also to possesse the vvorld vvith other matters then those for vvhich they made their breach and by these their courses doe impute blame unto our doctrine as if vve mainteyned opinions contrarie to the truth labouring thereby to sette a more glorious shevv upon their popular government and pleadings and that thereby vve perceive the truth is much hindered and vve injuried and many by their meanes and opinions so deceived that they despise the holy government of Christ vvhich he hath set in his Church to be administred by the Elders thereof refuse to submit thereunto and that not onely they vvho have thus vvritten dealt here but others also in our ovvn coūtrie praejudiced vvith these matters and sinisterly possessed vvith some of their vvritings against us and our cause are likevvise corrupted and so have shevved it