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we_o a_o unavoidable_a necessity_n of_o divide_v unity_n either_o with_o you_o or_o with_o god_n and_o whether_o of_o these_o be_v rather_o to_o be_v do_v be_v you_o judge_n 11._o iraeneus_n also_o say_v not_o simple_o which_o only_o will_v do_v you_o service_n there_o can_v possible_o be_v any_o so_o important_a reformation_n as_o to_o justify_v a_o separation_n from_o they_o who_o will_v not_o reform_v but_o only_o they_o can_v make_v any_o corruption_n so_o great_a as_o be_v the_o pernitiousness_n of_o a_o schism_n now_o they_o here_o be_v a_o relative_a and_o have_v a_o antecedent_n express_v in_o iraeneus_n which_o if_o you_o have_v be_v please_v to_o take_v notice_n of_o you_o will_v easy_o have_v see_v that_o what_o irenaeus_n say_v fall_v heavy_a upon_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n but_o touch_v protestant_n nothing_o at_o all_o for_o the_o man_n he_o speak_v of_o be_v such_o as_o propter_fw-la modicas_fw-la &_o quaslibet_fw-la causas_fw-la for_o trifle_v or_o small_a cause_n divide_v the_o body_n of_o christ_n such_o as_o speak_v of_o peace_n and_o make_v war_n such_o as_o strain_v at_o gnat_n and_o swallow_v camel_n and_o these_o say_v he_o can_v make_v no_o reformation_n of_o any_o such_o importance_n as_o to_o countervail_v the_o danger_n of_o a_o division_n now_o see_v the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n from_o the_o church_n of_o rome_n be_v as_o we_o pretend_v and_o be_v ready_a to_o justify_v because_o we_o will_v not_o be_v partaker_n with_o she_o in_o superstition_n idolatry_n impiety_n and_o most_o cruel_a tyranny_n both_o upon_o the_o body_n and_o soul_n of_o man_n who_o can_v say_v that_o the_o cause_n of_o our_o separation_n may_v be_v just_o esteem_v modicae_fw-la &_o quaelibet_fw-la causae_fw-la on_o the_o other_o side_n see_v the_o bishop_n of_o rome_n who_o be_v contemporary_a to_o irenaeus_n do_v as_o much_o as_o in_o he_o lay_v cut_v off_o from_o the_o church_n unity_n many_o great_a church_n for_o not_o conform_v to_o he_o in_o a_o indifferent_a matter_n upon_o a_o difference_n non_fw-fr de_fw-fr catholico_n dogmate_n sed_fw-la de_fw-la ritu_fw-la vel_fw-la ritus_fw-la potiùs_fw-la tempore_fw-la not_o about_o any_o catholic_n doctrine_n but_o only_o a_o ceremony_n or_o rather_o about_o the_o time_n of_o observe_v it_o so_o petavius_n value_v it_o which_o be_v just_o all_o one_o as_o if_o the_o church_n of_o france_n shall_v excommunicate_v those_o of_o their_o own_o religion_n in_o england_n for_o not_o keep_v christmas_n upon_o the_o same_o day_n with_o they_o and_o see_v he_o be_v reprehend_v sharp_o and_o bitter_o for_o it_o by_o most_o of_o the_o bishop_n of_o the_o world_n as_o 2._o as_o euseb_n hist_o l._n 5._o c._n 24._o perron_n replic_n l._n 3._o c._n 2._o eusebius_n testify_v and_o as_o cardinal_n perron_n though_o mince_v the_o matter_n yet_o confess_v by_o this_o very_a irenaeus_n himself_o
church_n to_o communicate_v in_o her_o corruption_n or_o you_o suppose_v her_o communion_n uncorrupted_a if_o the_o former_a and_o yet_o will_v take_v for_o grant_v that_o all_o be_v schismatic_n that_o leave_v her_o communion_n though_o it_o be_v corrupt_v you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o proposition_n if_o the_o latter_a you_o beg_v the_o question_n in_o your_o supposition_n for_o protestant_n you_o know_v be_v peremptory_a and_o unanimous_a in_o the_o denial_n of_o both_o these_o thing_n both_o that_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n be_v then_o uncorrupted_a and_o that_o they_o be_v true_o schismatic_n who_o leave_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n if_o corrupt_v especial_o if_o the_o case_n be_v so_o and_o luther_n be_v so_o that_o they_o must_v either_o leave_v her_o communion_n or_o of_o necessity_n communicate_v with_o she_o in_o her_o corruption_n 26._o beside_o although_o it_o be_v grant_v schism_n to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o what_o state_n or_o case_n so_o ever_o it_o be_v and_o that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n be_v schismatic_n for_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o all_o visible_a church_n yet_o you_o fail_v exceed_o of_o clear_v the_o other_o necessary_a point_n undertake_v by_o you_o that_o the_o roman_a church_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o neither_o do_v protestant_n as_o you_o mistake_v make_v the_o true_a preach_v of_o the_o word_n and_o due_a administration_n of_o the_o sacrament_n the_o note_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o of_o a_o visible_a church_n now_o these_o you_o know_v be_v very_o different_a thing_n the_o former_a signify_v the_o church_n catholic_n or_o the_o whole_a church_n the_o latter_a a_o particular_a church_n or_o a_o part_n of_o the_o catholic_n and_o therefore_o suppose_v out_o of_o courtesy_n we_o shall_v grant_v what_o by_o argument_n you_o can_v never_o evince_v that_o your_o church_n have_v these_o note_n yet_o will_v it_o by_o no_o mean_n follow_v that_o your_o church_n be_v the_o visible_a church_n but_o only_o a_o visible_a church_n not_o the_o whole_a catholic_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o 27._o last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o protestant_n must_v either_o grant_v that_o your_o church_n then_o be_v the_o visible_a church_n or_o name_v some_o other_o disagree_v from_o you_o and_o agree_v with_o protestant_n in_o their_o particular_a doctrine_n or_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n it_o be_v all_o one_o as_o if_o to_o use_v s._n paul_n similitude_n the_o head_n shall_v say_v to_o the_o foot_n either_o you_o must_v grant_v that_o i_o be_o the_o whole_a body_n or_o name_v some_o other_o member_n that_o be_v so_o or_o confess_v that_o there_o be_v no_o body_n to_o which_o the_o foot_n may_v answer_v i_o acknowledge_v there_o be_v a_o body_n and_o yet_o that_o no_o member_n beside_o you_o be_v this_o body_n nor_o yet_o that_o you_o be_v it_o but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o in_o like_a manner_n say_v we_o we_o acknowledge_v a_o church_n there_o be_v corrupt_v indeed_o universal_o but_o yet_o such_o a_o one_o as_o we_o hope_v by_o god_n gracious_a acceptance_n be_v still_o a_o church_n we_o pretend_v not_o to_o name_v any_o one_o society_n that_o be_v this_o church_n and_o yet_o we_o see_v no_o reason_n that_o can_v enforce_v we_o to_o confess_v that_o you_o be_v the_o church_n but_o only_o a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o that_o one_o of_o the_o worst_a then_o extant_a in_o the_o world_n in_o vain_a therefore_o have_v you_o trouble_v yourself_o in_o prove_v that_o we_o can_v pretend_v that_o either_o the_o greek_n waldenses_n wickliffite_n hussites_n muscovite_n armenians_n georgians_n abyssine_n be_v then_o the_o visible_a church_n for_o all_o this_o discourse_n proceed_v from_o a_o false_a &_o vain_a supposition_n and_o beg_v another_o point_n in_o question_n between_o we_o which_o be_v that_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o one_o communion_n as_o the_o roman_a the_o greek_a etc._n etc._n must_v be_v always_o exclusive_o to_o all_o other_o communion_n the_o whole_a visible_a church_n and_o though_o perhaps_o some_o weak_a protestant_n have_v this_o false_a principle_n settle_v in_o he_o that_o there_o be_v to_o be_v always_o some_o visible_a church_n of_o one_o denomination_n pure_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n may_v be_v wrought_v upon_o and_o prevail_v with_o by_o it_o to_o forsake_v the_o church_n of_o protestant_n yet_o why_o it_o shall_v induce_v he_o to_o go_v to_o you_o rather_o than_o the_o greek_a church_n or_o any_o other_o which_o pretend_v to_o perpetual_a succession_n as_o well_o as_o you_o that_o i_o do_v not_o understand_v unless_o it_o be_v for_o the_o reason_n which_o aeneas_n silvius_n give_v why_o more_o hold_v the_o pope_n above_o a_o council_n than_o a_o council_n above_o the_o pope_n which_o be_v because_o pope_n do_v give_v bishopric_n and_o archbishopric_n but_o council_n give_v none_o and_o therefore_o sue_v in_o forma_fw-la pauperis_fw-la be_v not_o like_a to_o have_v their_o cause_n very_o well_o maintain_v for_o put_v the_o case_n i_o shall_v grant_v of_o mere_a favour_n that_o there_o must_v be_v always_o some_o church_n of_o one_o denomination_n and_o communion_n free_a from_o all_o error_n in_o doctrine_n and_o that_o protestant_n have_v not_o always_o such_o a_o church_n it_o will_v follow_v indeed_o from_o thence_o that_o i_o must_v not_o be_v a_o protestant_n but_o that_o i_o must_v be_v a_o papist_n certain_o it_o will_v follow_v by_o no_o better_a consequence_n than_o this_o if_o you_o will_v leave_v england_n you_o must_v of_o necessity_n go_v to_o rome_n and_o yet_o with_o this_o wretched_a fallacy_n have_v i_o be_v sometime_o abuse_v myself_o and_o know_v many_o other_o poor_a soul_n seduce_v not_o only_o from_o their_o own_o church_n and_o religion_n but_o unto_o you_o i_o beseech_v god_n to_o open_v the_o eye_n of_o all_o that_o love_v the_o truth_n that_o they_o may_v not_o always_o be_v hold_v captive_a under_o such_o miserable_a delusion_n 28._o let_v we_o come_v now_o to_o the_o argument_n which_o you_o build_v upon_o d._n potter_n own_o word_n out_o of_o which_o you_o promise_v unanswerable_a reason_n to_o convince_v protestant_n of_o schism_n 29._o but_o these_o reason_n will_v easy_o be_v answer_v if_o the_o reader_n will_v take_v along_o with_o he_o these_o three_o short_a memorandum_n 30._o first_o that_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o any_o church_n be_v the_o sin_n of_o schism_n 31._o second_o that_o impose_v upon_o man_n under_o pain_n of_o excommunication_n a_o necessity_n of_o profess_v know_v error_n and_o practise_v know_v corruption_n be_v a_o sufficient_a and_o necessary_a cause_n of_o separation_n and_o that_o this_o be_v the_o cause_n the_o protestant_n allege_v to_o justify_v their_o separation_n from_o which_o church_n of_o rome_n 32._o three_o that_o to_o leave_v the_o church_n and_o to_o leave_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o a_o church_n be_v not_o the_o same_o thing_n that_o be_v do_v by_o cease_v to_o be_v a_o member_n of_o it_o by_o cease_v to_o have_v those_o requisite_n which_o constitute_v a_o man_n a_o member_n of_o it_o as_o faith_n and_o obedience_n this_o by_o refuse_v to_o communicate_v with_o any_o church_n in_o her_o liturgy_n and_o public_a worship_n of_o god_n this_o armour_n if_o it_o be_v right_o place_v will_v repel_v all_o those_o battery_n which_o you_o threaten_v we_o with_o all_o 33._o ad_fw-la §_o 13.14_o 15._o the_o first_o be_v a_o sentence_n of_o s._n austin_n against_o donatus_n apply_v to_o luther_n thus_o if_o the_o church_n perish_v what_o church_n bring_v forth_o donatus_n you_o say_v luther_n if_o she_o can_v not_o perish_v what_o madness_n move_v the_o sect_n of_o donatus_n to_o separate_v upon_o pretence_n to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n whereunto_o one_o fair_a answer_n to_o let_v pass_v many_o other_o be_v obvious_a out_o of_o the_o second_o observation_n that_o this_o sentence_n though_o it_o be_v gospel_n as_o it_o be_v not_o be_v impertinent_o apply_v to_o luther_n and_o lutheran_n who_o pretence_n of_o separation_n be_v it_o true_a or_o be_v it_o false_a be_v not_o as_o that_o of_o the_o donatist_n only_o to_o avoid_v the_o communion_n of_o bad_a man_n but_o to_o free_v themselves_o from_o a_o necessity_n which_o but_o by_o separate_n be_v unavoidable_a of_o join_v with_o bad_a man_n in_o their_o impiety_n 34._o ad_fw-la §_o 16._o your_o second_o onset_n drive_v only_o at_o those_o protestant_n who_o hold_v the_o true_a church_n be_v invisible_a for_o many_o age_n which_o doctrine_n if_o by_o the_o true_a church_n be_v understand_v the_o pure_a church_n as_o you_o do_v understand_v it_o be_v a_o certain_a truth_n &_o it_o
be_v easy_a for_o you_o to_o declaim_v as_o you_o do_v than_o to_o dispute_v against_o it_o but_o these_o man_n you_o say_v must_v be_v heretic_n because_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n and_o therefore_o also_o from_o the_o communion_n of_o that_o which_o they_o say_v be_v invisible_a in_o as_o much_o as_o the_o invisible_a church_n communicate_v with_o the_o visible_a 35._o ans_fw-fr i_o may_v very_o just_o desire_v some_o proof_n of_o that_o which_o so_o confident_o you_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o there_o be_v no_o persecute_a and_o oppress_v maintainer_n of_o the_o truth_n in_o the_o day_n of_o our_o forefather_n but_o only_o such_o as_o dissemble_v their_o opinion_n and_o live_v in_o your_o communion_n and_o true_o if_o i_o shall_v say_v there_o be_v many_o of_o this_o condition_n i_o suppose_v i_o can_v make_v my_o affirmative_a much_o more_o probable_a than_o you_o can_v make_v your_o negative_a we_o read_v in_o scripture_n that_o elias_n conceive_v there_o be_v none_o leave_v beside_o himself_o in_o the_o whole_a kingdom_n of_o israel_n who_o have_v not_o revolt_v from_o god_n and_o yet_o god_n himself_o assure_v we_o that_o he_o be_v deceive_v and_o if_o such_o a_o man_n a_o prophet_n and_o one_o of_o the_o great_a err_v in_o his_o judgement_n touch_v his_o own_o time_n and_o his_o own_o country_n why_o may_v not_o you_o who_o be_v certain_o but_o a_o man_n and_o subject_a to_o the_o same_o passion_n as_o elias_n be_v mistake_v in_o think_v that_o in_o former_a age_n in_o some_o country_n or_o other_o there_o be_v not_o always_o some_o good_a christian_n which_o do_v not_o so_o much_o as_o external_o bow_v their_o knee_n to_o your_o baal_n but_o this_o answer_n i_o be_o content_a you_o shall_v take_v no_o notice_n of_o and_o think_v it_o sufficient_a to_o tell_v you_o that_o if_o it_o be_v true_a that_o this_o suppose_a invisible_a church_n do_v hypocritical_o communicate_v with_o the_o visible_a church_n in_o her_o corruption_n than_o protestant_n have_v cause_n nay_o necessity_n to_o forsake_v their_o communion_n also_o for_o otherwise_o they_o must_v have_v join_v with_o they_o in_o the_o practice_n of_o impiety_n and_o see_v they_o have_v such_o cause_n to_o separate_v they_o presume_v their_o separation_n can_v be_v schismatical_a 36._o yes_o you_o reply_v to_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o they_o with_o who_o they_o agree_v in_o faith_n be_v the_o most_o formal_a and_o proper_a sin_n of_o schism_n answ_n very_o true_a but_o i_o will_v fain_o know_v wherein_o i_o will_v glad_o be_v inform_v whether_o i_o be_v bind_v for_o fear_n of_o schism_n to_o communicate_v with_o those_o that_o believe_v as_o i_o do_v only_o in_o lawful_a thing_n or_o absolute_o in_o every_o thing_n whether_o i_o be_o to_o join_v with_o they_o in_o superstition_n and_o idolatry_n and_o not_o only_o in_o a_o common_a profession_n of_o the_o faith_n wherein_o we_o agree_v but_o in_o a_o common_a dissimulation_n or_o abjuration_n of_o it_o this_o be_v that_o which_o you_o will_v have_v they_o do_v or_o else_o forsooth_o they_o must_v be_v schismatic_n but_o hereafter_o i_o pray_v remember_v that_o there_o be_v no_o necessity_n of_o communicate_v even_o with_o true_a believer_n in_o wicked_a action_n nay_o that_o there_o be_v a_o necessity_n herein_o to_o separate_v from_o they_o and_o then_o i_o dare_v say_v even_o you_o be_v their_o judge_n the_o reasonableness_n of_o their_o cause_n to_o separate_v shall_v according_a to_o my_o first_o observation_n justify_v their_o separation_n from_o be_v schismatical_a 37._o arg._n but_o the_o property_n of_o schism_n according_a to_o d._n potter_n be_v to_o cut_v off_o from_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n the_o church_n from_o which_o it_o separate_v and_o these_o protestant_n have_v this_o property_n therefore_o they_o be_v schismatic_n 38._o ans_fw-fr i_o deny_v the_o syllogism_n it_o be_v no_o better_a than_o this_o one_o smptom_n of_o the_o plague_n be_v a_o fever_n but_o such_o a_o man_n have_v a_o fever_n therefore_o he_o have_v the_o plague_n the_o true_a conclusion_n which_o issue_v out_o of_o these_o premise_n shall_v be_v this_o therefore_o he_o have_v one_o symptom_n of_o the_o plague_n and_o so_o likewise_o in_o the_o former_a therefore_o they_o have_v one_o property_n or_o one_o quality_n of_o schismatic_n and_o as_o in_o the_o former_a instance_n the_o man_n that_o have_v one_o sign_n of_o the_o plague_n may_v by_o reason_n of_o the_o absence_n of_o other_o requisite_n not_o have_v the_o plague_n so_o these_o protestant_n may_v have_v something_o of_o schismatic_n and_o yet_o not_o be_v schismatic_n a_o tyrant_n sentence_v a_o man_n to_o death_n for_o his_o pleasure_n and_o a_o just_a judge_n that_o condemn_v a_o malefactor_n do_v both_o sentence_n a_o man_n to_o death_n and_o so_o for_o the_o matter_n do_v both_o the_o same_o thing_n yet_o the_o one_o do_v wicked_o the_o other_o just_o what_o be_v the_o reason_n because_o the_o one_o have_v cause_n the_o other_o have_v not_o in_o like_a manner_n schismatic_n either_o always_o or_o general_o denounce_v damnation_n to_o they_o from_o who_o they_o separate_v the_o same_o do_v these_o protestant_n &_o yet_o be_v not_o schismatic_n the_o reason_n because_o schismatic_n do_v it_o and_o do_v it_o without_o cause_n and_o protestant_n have_v cause_n for_o what_o they_o do_v the_o impiety_n of_o your_o church_n be_v general_o speak_v damnable_a unless_o where_o they_o be_v excuse_v by_o ignorance_n and_o expiate_v at_o least_o by_o a_o general_a repentance_n in_o fine_a though_o perhaps_o it_o may_v be_v true_a that_o all_o schismatic_n do_v so_o yet_o universal_a affirmative_n be_v not_o convert_v and_o therefore_o it_o follow_v not_o by_o any_o good_a logic_n that_o all_o that_o do_v so_o when_o there_o be_v just_a cause_n for_o it_o must_v be_v schismatic_n the_o cause_n in_o this_o matter_n of_o separation_n be_v all_o in_o all_o and_o that_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v you_o never_o think_v of_o but_o if_o these_o rigid_a protestant_n have_v just_a cause_n to_o cut_v off_o your_o church_n from_o the_o hope_n of_o salvation_n how_o can_v the_o mild_a sort_n allow_v hope_n of_o salvation_n to_o the_o member_n of_o this_o church_n ans_fw-fr distinguish_v the_o quality_n of_o the_o person_n censure_v and_o this_o seem_a repugnance_n of_o their_o censure_n will_v vanish_v into_o nothing_o for_o your_o church_n may_v be_v consider_v either_o in_o regard_n of_o those_o in_o who_o either_o negligence_n or_o pride_n or_o worldly_a fear_n or_o hope_n or_o some_o other_o voluntary_a sin_n be_v the_o cause_n of_o their_o ignorance_n which_o i_o fear_n be_v the_o case_n of_o the_o generality_n of_o man_n among_o you_o or_o in_o regard_n of_o those_o who_o owe_v their_o error_n from_o truth_n to_o want_v of_o capacity_n or_o default_n of_o instruction_n either_o in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o may_v know_v the_o truth_n and_o will_v not_o or_o of_o those_o who_o will_v know_v the_o truth_n but_o all_o thing_n consider_v can_v in_o respect_n of_o those_o that_o have_v eye_n to_o see_v and_o will_v not_o see_v or_o those_o that_o will_v glad_o see_v but_o want_v eye_n or_o light_n consider_v the_o former_a sort_n of_o man_n which_o your_o more_o rigid_a censure_n seem_v especial_o to_o reflect_v upon_o and_o the_o heavy_a sentence_n will_v not_o be_v too_o heavy_a consider_v the_o latter_a and_o the_o mild_a will_v not_o be_v too_o mild_a so_o that_o here_o be_v no_o difference_n but_o in_o word_n only_o neither_o be_v you_o flatter_v by_o the_o one_o nor_o uncharitable_o censure_v by_o the_o other_o 39_o your_o next_o blow_n be_v direct_v against_o the_o mild_a sort_n of_o protestant_n who_o you_o say_v involve_v themselves_o in_o the_o sin_n of_o schism_n by_o communicate_v with_o those_o as_o you_o call_v they_o exterminate_v spirit_n who_o you_o conceive_v yourself_o to_o have_v prove_v schismatic_n and_o now_o load_v they_o further_o with_o the_o crime_n of_o heresy_n for_o say_v you_o if_o you_o hold_v yourselves_o oblige_v under_o pain_n of_o damnation_n to_o forsake_v the_o communion_n of_o the_o roman_a church_n by_o reason_n of_o her_o error_n which_o yet_o you_o confess_v be_v not_o fundamental_a shall_v it_o not_o be_v much_o more_o damnable_a to_o live_v in_o confraternity_n with_o these_o who_o defend_v a_o error_n of_o the_o fail_n of_o the_o church_n which_o in_o the_o donatist_n you_o confess_v to_o have_v be_v proper_o heretical_a 40._o ans_fw-fr you_o mistake_v in_o think_v that_o protestant_n hold_v themselves_o oblige_v not_o to_o communicate_v with_o you_o only_o or_o principal_o by_o reason_n of_o your_o error_n and_o corruption_n for_o the_o true_a reason_n according_a to_o my_o three_o observation_n be_v not_o so_o much_o because_o you_o maintain_v error_n and_o corruption_n
cleanse_v themselves_o and_o yet_o continue_v part_n of_o the_o body_n and_o what_o reason_n then_o in_o the_o world_n be_v there_o if_o the_o whole_a visible_a church_n be_v overcome_v with_o tare_n and_o weed_n of_o superstition_n and_o corruption_n but_o that_o some_o member_n of_o it_o may_v reform_v themselves_o and_o yet_o continue_v still_o true_a member_n of_o the_o body_n of_o the_o church_n and_o not_o be_v make_v no_o member_n but_o the_o better_a by_o their_o reformation_n 50._o we_o acknowledge_v that_o we_o can_v as_o matter_n now_o stand_v separate_a from_o your_o corruption_n but_o we_o must_v depart_v from_o your_o external_n communion_n for_o you_o have_v so_o order_v thing_n that_o whosoever_o will_v communicate_v with_o you_o at_o all_o must_v communicate_v with_o you_o in_o your_o corruption_n but_o it_o be_v you_o that_o will_v not_o perceive_v the_o difference_n between_o be_v a_o part_n of_o the_o church_n and_o be_v in_o external_a communion_n with_o all_o the_o other_o part_n of_o it_o take_v for_o grant_v that_o which_o be_v certain_o false_a that_o no_o two_o man_n or_o church_n divide_v in_o external_a communion_n can_v be_v both_o true_a part_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n 51._o we_o be_v not_o to_o learn_v the_o difference_n between_o schism_n and_o heresy_n for_o heresy_n we_o conceive_v a_o obstinate_a defence_n of_o any_o error_n against_o any_o necessary_a article_n of_o the_o christian_a faith_n and_o schism_n a_o causeless_a separation_n of_o one_o part_n of_o the_o church_n from_o another_o but_o this_o we_o say_v that_o if_o we_o convince_v you_o of_o error_n and_o corruption_n profess_a and_o practise_v in_o your_o communion_n than_o we_o can_v be_v schismatic_n for_o refuse_v to_o join_v with_o you_o in_o the_o profession_n of_o these_o error_n and_o the_o practice_n of_o these_o corruption_n and_o therefore_o you_o must_v free_v yourselves_o from_o error_n or_o we_o from_o schism_n 52._o last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o you_o have_v demonstrate_v against_o we_o that_o protestant_n divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o visible_a church_n add_v which_o external_a communion_n be_v corrupt_v and_o we_o shall_v confess_v the_o accusation_n and_o glory_n in_o it_o but_o this_o be_v not_o that_o quod_fw-la erat_fw-la demonstrandum_fw-la but_o that_o we_o divide_v ourselves_o from_o the_o church_n that_o be_v make_v ourselves_o outlaw_n from_o it_o and_o no_o member_n of_o it_o and_o moreover_o in_o the_o reason_n of_o your_o separation_n from_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o your_o church_n you_o be_v mistake_v for_o it_o be_v not_o so_o much_o because_o she_o your_o church_n as_o because_o your_o church_n external_a communion_n be_v corrupt_v and_o need_v reformation_n 53._o that_o a_o pretence_n of_o reformation_n will_v acquit_v no_o man_n from_o schism_n we_o grant_v very_o willing_o and_o therefore_o say_v that_o it_o concern_v every_o man_n who_o separate_v from_o any_o church_n communion_n even_o as_o much_o as_o his_o salvation_n be_v worth_a to_o look_v most_o careful_o to_o it_o that_o the_o cause_n of_o his_o separation_n be_v just_a and_o necessary_a for_o unless_o it_o be_v necessary_a it_o can_v very_o hardly_o be_v sufficient_a but_o whether_o a_o true_a reformation_n of_o ourselves_o from_o error_n superstition_n and_o impiety_n will_v not_o justify_v our_o separation_n in_o these_o thing_n our_o separation_n i_o say_v from_o they_o who_o will_v not_o reform_v themselves_o and_o as_o much_o as_o in_o they_o lie_v hinder_v other_o from_o do_v so_o this_o be_v the_o point_n you_o shall_v have_v speak_v to_o but_o have_v not_o as_o for_o the_o sentence_n of_o the_o father_n to_o which_o you_o refer_v we_o for_o the_o determination_n of_o this_o question_n i_o suppose_v by_o what_o i_o have_v say_v above_o the_o reader_n understand_v by_o allege_v they_o you_o have_v gain_v little_a credit_n to_o your_o cause_n or_o person_n and_o that_o if_o they_o be_v competent_a judge_n of_o this_o controversy_n their_o sentence_n be_v against_o you_o much_o rather_o than_o for_o you_o 56._o but_o your_o argument_n you_o conceive_v will_v be_v more_o convince_a if_o we_o consider_v that_o when_o luther_n appear_v there_o be_v not_o two_o distinct_a visible_a true_a church_n one_o pure_a the_o other_o corrupt_v but_o one_o church_n only_o ans_fw-fr the_o ground_n of_o this_o be_v no_o way_n certain_a nor_o here_o sufficient_o prove_v for_o whereas_o you_o say_v history_n be_v silent_a of_o any_o such_o matter_n i_o answer_v there_o be_v no_o necessity_n that_o you_o or_o i_o shall_v have_v read_v all_o history_n that_o may_v be_v extant_a of_o this_o matter_n nor_o that_o all_o shall_v be_v extant_a that_o be_v write_v much_o less_o extant_a uncorrupted_a especial_o consider_v your_o church_n which_o have_v lat_o all_o power_n in_o her_o hand_n have_v be_v so_o pernitious_o industrious_a in_o corrupt_v the_o monument_n of_o antiquity_n that_o make_v against_o she_o nor_o that_o all_o record_n shall_v remain_v which_o be_v write_v nor_o that_o all_o shall_v be_v record_v which_o be_v do_v last_o whereas_o you_o say_v that_o suppose_v a_o visible_a pure_a church_n luther_n must_v be_v a_o schismatic_a who_o separate_v from_o all_o visible_a church_n i_o tell_v you_o if_o you_o will_v suppose_v a_o visible_a church_n extant_a before_o and_o when_o luther_n arise_v conformable_a to_o he_o in_o all_o point_n of_o doctrine_n necessary_a and_o profitable_a then_o luther_n separate_v not_o from_o this_o church_n but_o adjoin_v himself_o to_o it_o not_o indeed_o in_o place_n which_o be_v not_o necessary_a not_o in_o external_a communion_n which_o be_v impossible_a but_o by_o the_o union_n of_o faith_n and_o charity_n upon_o these_o ground_n i_o say_v that_o the_o ground_n of_o this_o argument_n be_v no_o way_n make_v certain_a yet_o because_o it_o be_v not_o manifest_o false_a i_o be_o content_a to_o let_v it_o pass_v and_o for_o aught_o i_o see_v it_o be_v very_o safe_a for_o i_o to_o do_v so_o for_o you_o build_v nothing_o upon_o it_o which_o i_o may_v not_o fair_o grant_v for_o what_o do_v you_o conclude_v from_o hence_o but_o that_o see_v there_o be_v no_o visible_a church_n but_o corrupt_v luther_n forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o corrupt_a church_n can_v not_o but_o forsake_v the_o external_a communion_n of_o the_o catholic_n church_n well_o let_v this_o also_o be_v grant_v what_o will_v come_v of_o it_o what_o that_o luther_n must_v be_v a_o schismatic_a by_o no_o mean_n for_o not_o every_o separation_n but_o only_o a_o causeless_a separation_n from_o the_o communion_n of_o the_o church_n we_o maintain_v to_o be_v schismatical_a hereunto_o may_v be_v add_v that_o though_o the_o whole_a church_n be_v corrupt_v yet_o proper_o speak_v it_o be_v not_o true_a that_o luther_n and_o his_o follower_n forsake_v the_o whole_a corrupt_a church_n or_o the_o external_a communion_n of_o it_o but_o only_o that_o he_o forsake_v that_o part_n of_o it_o which_o be_v corrupt_v and_o still_o will_v be_v so_o and_o forsake_v not_o but_o only_o reform_v another_o part_n which_o part_v they_o themselves_o be_v and_o i_o suppose_v you_o will_v not_o go_v about_o to_o persuade_v we_o that_o they_o forsake_v themselves_o or_o their_o own_o communion_n and_o if_o you_o urge_v that_o they_o join_v themselves_o to_o no_o other_o part_n therefore_o they_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a i_o say_v it_o follow_v not_o in_o as_o much_o as_o themselves_o be_v a_o part_n of_o it_o and_o still_o continue_v so_o and_o therefore_o can_v no_o more_o separate_v from_o the_o whole_a than_o from_o themselves_o thus_o though_o there_o be_v no_o part_n of_o the_o people_n of_o rome_n to_o who_o the_o plebeian_n join_v themselves_o when_o they_o make_v their_o secession_n into_o the_o aventine_n hill_n yet_o they_o divide_v themselves_o from_o the_o patrician_n only_o and_o not_o from_o the_o whole_a people_n because_o themselves_o be_v a_o part_n of_o this_o people_n and_o they_o divide_v not_o from_o themselves_o 57_o ad_fw-la §_o 18._o here_o you_o prove_v that_o which_o no_o man_n deny_v that_o corruption_n in_o manner_n yield_v no_o sufficient_a cause_n to_o leave_v the_o church_n yet_o sure_o it_o yield_v sufficient_a cause_n to_o cast_v they_o out_o of_o the_o church_n that_o be_v after_o the_o church_n public_a admonition_n obstinate_a in_o notorious_a impiety_n neither_o do_v the_o cut_n off_o such_o man_n from_o the_o church_n lay_v any_o necessity_n upon_o we_o either_o to_o go_v out_o of_o the_o world_n or_o out_o of_o the_o church_n but_o rather_o put_v these_o man_n out_o of_o the_o church_n into_o the_o world_n where_o we_o may_v converse_v with_o they_o free_o without_o scandal_n to_o the_o church_n our_o bless_a saviour_n foretell_v you_o say_v that_o there_o shall_v be_v in_o the_o church_n tare_n with_o choice_n
obedience_n to_o all_o court_n of_o civil_a judicature_n yet_o he_o say_v not_o they_o be_v bind_v to_o think_v that_o determination_n lawful_a and_o that_o sentence_n just_a nay_o it_o be_v plain_a he_o say_v that_o they_o must_v do_v according_a to_o the_o judge_n sentence_n though_o in_o their_o private_a opinion_n it_o seem_v unjust_a as_o if_o i_o be_v wrongful_o cast_v in_o a_o suit_n at_o law_n and_o sentence_v to_o pay_v a_o hundred_o pound_n i_o be_o bind_v to_o pay_v the_o money_n yet_o i_o know_v no_o law_n of_o god_n or_o man_n that_o bind_v i_o in_o conscience_n to_o acquit_v the_o judge_n of_o error_n in_o his_o sentence_n neither_o be_v there_o any_o necessity_n as_o you_o say_v that_o he_o must_v either_o acknowledge_v the_o universal_a infallibility_n of_o the_o church_n or_o drive_v man_n into_o dissemble_v against_o their_o conscience_n see_v nothing_o hinder_v but_o i_o may_v obey_v the_o sentence_n of_o a_o judge_n pay_v the_o money_n he_o award_v i_o to_o pay_v or_o forego_v the_o house_n or_o land_n which_o he_o have_v judge_v from_o i_o and_o yet_o withal_o plain_o profess_v that_o in_o my_o conscience_n i_o conceive_v his_o judgement_n erroneous_a to_o which_o purpose_n they_o have_v a_o say_n in_o france_n that_o whosoever_o be_v cast_v in_o any_o cause_n have_v liberty_n for_o ten_o day_n after_o to_o rail_v at_o his_o judge_n 110._o but_o observe_v i_o pray_v that_o mr._n hooker_n say_v not_o absolute_o and_o in_o all_o their_o cause_n but_o only_o in_o litigious_a cause_n of_o the_o quality_n of_o those_o whereof_o he_o there_o treat_v in_o such_o matter_n as_o have_v plain_a scripture_n or_o reason_n neither_o for_o they_o nor_o against_o they_o and_o wherein_o man_n be_v persuade_v this_o or_o that_o way_n upon_o their_o own_o only_a probable_a collection_n in_o such_o case_n this_o persuasion_n say_v he_o ought_v to_o be_v full_o settle_v in_o man_n heart_n that_o the_o will_n of_o god_n be_v that_o they_o shall_v not_o disobey_v the_o certain_a command_n of_o their_o lawful_a superior_n upon_o uncertain_a ground_n but_o do_v that_o which_o the_o sentence_n of_o judicial_a and_o final_a decision_n shall_v determine_v for_o the_o purpose_n a_o question_n there_o be_v whether_o a_o surplice_n may_v be_v wear_v in_o divine_a service_n the_o authority_n of_o superior_n enjoin_v this_o ceremony_n and_o neither_o scripture_n nor_o reason_n plain_o forbid_v it_o sempronius_z notwithstanding_o be_v by_o some_o inducement_n which_o he_o confess_v to_o be_v only_o probable_a lead_v to_o this_o persuasion_n that_o the_o thing_n be_v unlawful_a the_o quaere_fw-la be_v whether_o he_o ought_v for_o matter_n of_o practice_n follow_v the_o injunction_n of_o authority_n or_o his_o own_o private_a and_o only_a probable_a persuasion_n m._n hooker_n resolve_v for_o the_o former_a upon_o this_o ground_n that_o the_o certain_a command_n of_o the_o church_n we_o live_v in_o be_v to_o be_v obey_v in_o all_o thing_n not_o certain_o unlawful_a as_o for_o require_v a_o blind_a and_o a_o unlimited_a obedience_n to_o ecclesiastical_a decision_n universal_o and_o in_o all_o case_n even_o when_o plain_a text_n or_o reason_n seem_v to_o control_v they_o m._n hooker_n be_v as_o far_o from_o make_v such_o a_o idol_n of_o ecclesiastical_a authority_n as_o the_o puritan_n who_o he_o write_v against_o i_o grant_v say_v he_o that_o proof_n derive_v from_o the_o authority_n of_o man_n judgement_n be_v not_o able_a to_o work_v that_o assurance_n which_o do_v grow_v by_o a_o strong_a proof_n and_o therefore_o although_o ten_o thousand_o general_a council_n will_v set_v down_o one_o and_o the_o same_o definitive_a sentence_n concern_v any_o point_n of_o religion_n whatsoever_o yet_o one_o demonstrative_a reason_n allege_v or_o one_o manifest_a testimony_n cite_v from_o the_o word_n of_o god_n himself_o to_o the_o contrary_a can_v not_o choose_v but_o over-weigh_a they_o all_o in_o as_o much_o as_o for_o they_o to_o be_v deceive_v it_o be_v not_o impossible_a it_o be_v that_o demonstrative_a reason_n or_o divine_a testimony_n shall_v deceive_v and_o again_o whereas_o it_o be_v think_v that_o especial_o with_o the_o church_n and_o those_o that_o be_v call_v man_n authority_n ought_v not_o to_o prevail_v it_o must_v and_o do_v prevail_v even_o with_o they_o yea_o with_o they_o especial_o as_o far_o as_o equity_n require_v and_o far_o we_o maintain_v it_o not_o for_o man_n to_o be_v tie_v and_o lead_v by_o authority_n as_o it_o be_v with_o a_o kind_n of_o captivity_n of_o judgement_n and_o though_o there_o be_v reason_n to_o the_o contrary_a not_o to_o listen_v to_o it_o but_o to_o follow_v like_o beast_n the_o first_o in_o the_o herd_n this_o be_v brutish_a again_o that_o authority_n of_o man_n shall_v prevail_v with_o man_n either_o against_o or_o above_o reason_n be_v no_o part_n of_o our_o belief_n company_n of_o learned_a man_n be_v they_o never_o so_o great_a and_o reverend_a be_v to_o yield_v unto_o reason_n the_o weight_n whereof_o be_v no_o whit_n prejudice_v by_o the_o simplicity_n of_o his_o person_n which_o do_v allege_v it_o but_o be_v find_v to_o be_v sound_a and_o good_a the_o bare_a opinion_n of_o man_n to_o the_o contrary_a must_v of_o necessity_n stoop_v and_o give_v place_n thus_o m._n hooker_n in_o his_o seven_o section_n of_o his_o second_o book_n 112._o ad_fw-la §_o 43._o the_o next_o section_n have_v in_o it_o some_o objection_n against_o luther_n person_n but_o none_o against_o his_o cause_n which_o alone_o i_o have_v undertake_v to_o justify_v and_o therefore_o i_o pass_v it_o over_o yet_o this_o i_o promise_v that_o when_o you_o or_o any_o of_o your_o side_n shall_v publish_v a_o good_a defence_n of_o all_o that_o your_o pope_n have_v say_v and_o do_v especial_o of_o they_o who_o bellarmine_n believe_v in_o such_o a_o long_a train_n to_o have_v go_v to_o the_o devil_n than_o you_o shall_v receive_v a_o ample_a apology_n for_o all_o the_o action_n and_o word_n of_o 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