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A27112 Certamen religiosum, or, A conference between the late King of England and the late Lord Marquesse of Worcester concerning religion together with a vindication of the Protestant cause from the pretences of the Marquesse his last papers which the necessity of the King's affaires denyed him oportunity to answer. Bayly, Thomas, d. 1657? 1651 (1651) Wing B1507; ESTC R23673 451,978 466

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and maintaine it to be lawfull and not onely so but the Picture of God the Father like an old man and many other things which I forbeare because I feare you have done your selfe more hurt then me good in depriving your selfe of the rest to which you are accustomed for whilst our Arguments do multiplie our time lessens to that of Saint James where it is said that faith profiteth nothing without good works I hope the Doctor here can tell you that Saint Paul saith that we are justified by Faith and not by the works of the Law Marq. Sir I believe the Doctor will neither tell Your Majestie nor me that Faith can justifie without works King That question the Doctor can soone decide what say you to it Doctor you must speak now Doctor If it may please Your Majestie it would be as great a disobedience to hold my peace now I am commanded to speak as it would have been a presumption in me to speak before I was commanded I am so far from thinking that either Faith without good works or that good works without Faith can justifie that I cannot believe that there is such a thing as either No more then I can imagine that there may be a tree bearing fruit without a root or that the Sun can be up before it be day or that a fire can have no heat for although it be possible that a man may do some good without Faith yet he cannot do good works without it for though we may naturally incline to some goodnesse as flowers and plants naturally grow to perfection Yet this good cannot be said to be wrought by us but by the hand of Faith and Faith her selfe where she is truly so can no more stand still then can the Sun in the Firmament or refuse to let her light so shine before men that they may see her good works then the same Sun can appeare in the same Firmament and dart no beams And whilst Faith and good works strive for the proprietie of Justification I do believe they both exclude a third which hath more right to our Justification then either For that which we call Justification by Faith is not properly Justification but onely an apprehension of it as that which we call Justification by good works is not properly Justification but onely a Declaration of it to be so exempli gratia I receive a pardon my hand that receiv's it doth not justifie 't is put in execution and read in open Court all this did not procure it me Doubtlesse there is a reward for the righteous doubtlesse there is a God that judgeth the Earth wherefore upon this ground of beliefe I work out my Salvation as well as I can and do all the good that lies in my power I do good works Doubtlesse this man hath some reason for what he doth it is because he hath store of Faith which believes there is a God and that that God will accept of his endeavours wherefore to him alone who hath given us Faith and hath wrought all our good works in us can we properly attribute the tearme of Justification Iustificatio apprehensiva we may conceive and beare in our hearts Iustificatio declarativa we may shew with our hands but Iustificatio Effectiva proper and effectuall Justification none can lay claim unto but Christ alone that as our sins were imputed unto Christ so his righteousnesse might be ours by imputation King Doctor I thank you in this point I believe you have reconciled us both Doctor May it please Your Majestie if the venome were taken out there is no wound in the Churches body but might soon be healed Marq. Hereat the Marquesse somewhat earnestly cryed Hold Sir You have said well in one respect but there are two wayes of Iustification in us and two without us Christ is a cause of Iustification by his grace and merits without us and so we are justified by Baptisme and we are justified by the gifts of God in us viz. Faith Hope and Charity Whereupon the King spake as quickly King But my Lord both Justifications come from Christ according to your owne saying That without us by his grace and merit that within us by his gifts and favour therefore Christ is all in all in the matter of Justification and therefore though there were a thousand wayes and meanes to our Justification yet there is but one effectuall cause and that is Christ Marq. How is it then that we are called by the Apostle Cooperarii Christo Fellow-workers together with Christ King The Doctor hath told you how already If you lie wallowing in sin and Christ helps you out your reaching of him your hand is a working together with Christ Yet for all that it cannot be said that you helped yourselfe out of the ditch for then there had been no need of Christ Your apprehending the succour that came unto you no way attributes the God have mercie to your selfe no more then the declaring your selfe to be alive by action is the cause of setting you upon your leggs so that we may divide this threefold Justification as Peter divided his three Tabernacles here is one for Moses and one for Elias I pray let us have one for Christ and let that be the chiefe Marq. And Reason good King I wish that all Controversies betwixt you and Us were as well decided I am fully satisfied in this point Doctor May it please Your Majestie A great many Controversies between us and the Papists might be soon decided if the Churches revenues which were every where taken away more or lesse where differences in Religion in severall parts of the world did arise in the Church were not an obstacle of the re-union like the stone which the Crab cast into the Oyster which hindred it from ever shutting it selfe againe like the division which happened between the Greek and Latine Church Photinus intrudes himselfe into the Patriarch-ship of Constantinople over the head of Ignatius the lawfull Patriarch thereof whom the Pope preserved in his Communion and then the difference of the Procession of the holy Ghost between those two Churches was fomented by the said Photinus lest the wound should heale too soon and the patient should not be held long enough in cure for the benefit of the Chyrurgion Sacriledge hath brought more divisions then the nature of their causes have required and the Universities play with edged tools whilst hungry stomacks run away with their meat wherefore since Your Majestie was pleased to discharge the watch that I had set before the dore of my lips I shall make bold to put Your Majestie in mind of holding my Lord to the demand which Your Majestie once made unto his Lordship concerning the true Church for if once that Question were throughly determined all Controversies not onely between Your Majestie and his Lordship but also all the Controversies that ever were started would soon be decided at a short race end and without this we
There to justifie and to condemne are opposed-one to the other and to justifie is to repute just not to make just for so it should be no abomination to justifie the wicked but a very good worke For hee which converteth a sinner from the errour of his way shall save a soule from death c. Iames 5. 20. So Isai 5. 23. They are taxed who justifie the wicked for a reward Thus also God is said to justifie Isai 50. 8. Hee is neare that iustifieth mee who will contend with me And Rom. 8. 33 34. who shall lay any thing to the charge of Gods elect it is God that justifieth Who is he that condemneth it is Christ that died c. But saith Bellarmine when God doth justifie the wicked by declaring him just he doth also make him just because the judgement of God is according to truth I answer true it is whom God doth justifie them also hee doth sanctifie yet it doth not follow that these two viz. to justifie and to sanctifie are one and the same David was a man truly sanctified yet hee knew and acknowledged that his righteousnesse whereby hee was sanctified was not such as that he could be justified by it and therefore cried Enter not into judgement with thy servant c. Psal 143. 2. And Blessed is the man whose iniquity is forgiven c. Psal 32. 1 2. yet is Gods judgement neverthelesse according to truth when hee accounteth those righteous and imputeth no sinne unto them who still have sinne in them and so cannot be justified by their owne righteousnesse because they whom God justifieth by faith are united unto Christ as members of his Body and so Christs righteousnesse is their righteousnesse and though not in themselves yet in Christ they are compleatly righteous He is called The Lord our righteousnesse Ier. 23. 6. And sayes the Apostle In him yee are complete Col. 2. 10. wherefore hee desired to be found in him not having his own righteousnesse which is of the Law but that which is through the faith of Christ the righteousnesse which is of God by faith Phil. 3. 9. And thus we hold that faith doth justifie not formally but instrumentally not because of it selfe but because of its object viz. Christ and his righteousnesse which faith apprehendeth and applieth For by faith wee receive Christ Ioh. 1. 12. And Christ doth dwell in our hearts by faith Ephes 3. 17. Diverse of the Church of Rome since the beginning of Reformation in this great point touching justification have inclined to us Ferus I cited before saying that Believers have yet much sinne but no condemnation because thorough faith in Christ they are reputed cleane Cardinall Contarenus his workes I have not neither can I alledge him of mine own knowledge but his words as I finde them cited by another are very full for our purpose Because saith hee wee come unto a twofold righteousnesse by faith a righteousnesse inherent in us c. and the righteousnesse of Christ given and imputed to us in that wee are ingraffed into Christ and put on Christ it remaines to inquire whether of these we must rely upon that wee may be justified before God that is accounted holy and just I doe altogether hold that it is piously and Christianly said that wee ought to reply as on a thing that is stable and doth surely support us on the righteousnesse of Christ given unto us and not on that holinesse and grace which is inherent in us For this righteousnesse of ours is but inchoated and imperfect which cannot preserve us so but that in many things we offend and sinne continually Therefore for this righteousnesse of ours wee cannot be accounted righteous and good in the sight of God so as it should become the sonnes of God to be good and holy But the righteousness of Christ given unto us is true and perfect righteousnesse which doth altogether please the eyes of God in which there is nothing that may offend God nothing which cannot fully please him On this therefore alone as sure and stable must we rely and for it alone must wee believe that wee are justified before God that is accounted and called iust I see not why we should desire more in point of justification then this amounts to Pighius also a stout Champion of the Church of Rome is as full and expresse for that which wee make the formall cause of justification as any can be It is cleare saith hee what sentence we should all have if God would have dealt with us in strict judgement if hee had not most mercifully succoured us in his Son and had not involved and wrapped us in his righteousnesse wee having none of our own that will serve our turne And againe In him therefore are wee justified not in our selves not with our own but with his righteousnesse which by reason of our communion with Him is imputed unto us Being empty of our owne righteousnesse wee are taught to seeke righteousnesse out of our selves in him And againe That our righteousnesse is placed in Christs obedience it is from hence that wee being incorporated into Him it is reckoned as if it were ours so that because of it we are accounted righteous And immediately he adds that as Iacob being cloathed with the robes of his elder brother obtained the blessing of his Father so we must be clothed with the righteousnesse of Christ our elder brother that God may bestow the blessing of justification upon us And againe God doth justifie us saith he of his free-goodnes whereby he doth embrace us in Christ whiles that he clothes us being ingraffed into him with Christs innocency and righteousnesse which as it is alone true and perfect able to indure the sight of God so it alone must be presented for us at the tribunall of Gods Iudgement This and much more to this purpose hath Pighius and hee saith that hee could not dissemble that this prime part of Christian Doctrine was rather obscured then illustrated by the Schoolemen with thorny questions and definitions and therefore he was the more diligent in the handling of this point shewing that none of the sons of Adam can be justified before God by their own righteousnesse and their own workes but that all must rely onely on the righteousnesse of God in Christ and that by it alone they being destitute of a righteousnesse of their owne are righteous before God Pighius is so plaine and home in this point that Bellarmine doth censure him as erroneous in it And yet so powerfull and prevalent it truth that it extorted even from Bellarmine himselfe this confession That because of the uncertainty of a mans owne righteousnesse and the danger of vaine glory it is most safe to repose all confidence only in Gods Mercy and Goodnesse By his own confession then it is most safe in matter of justification to renounce Workes and to flie onely to Faith in
the Lord Jesus The ancient Fathers also give testimony to this truth Hilarie hath these very words Fides sola iustificat i. e. Faith alone doth iustifie Austine in effect sayes the same when hee saith Our righteousnesse in this life is so great that it consists rather in forgivenesse of sinnes then in perfection of vertues And so when hee saith Woe even to the landable life of men if thou O Lord laying aside mercy shall enter into the examination of it To this purpose also is that which hee saith upon those words of David Enter not into judgement with thy servant O Lord c. How right soever saith hee I thinke my selfe thou bringest forth a rule out of thy treasure and triest me by it and I am found crooked Thus also Bernard Lord saith he I will make mention of thy righteousnesse onely for it also is mine seeing that thou of God art made unto me righteousnesse Must I feare lest this one righteousnesse will not suffice us both No it is not a short cloake that cannot cover two And againe It is sufficient for mee unto all righteousnesse to have him onely propitious against whom onely I have sinned Not to sinne is Gods righteousnesse mans righteousnesse is Gods indulgence Thus then in the point of justification wee have both Scriptures and Fathers yea and divers Papists also concurring with us As for the two places of Scripture alledged by the Marquesse the former viz. that 1 Corin. 13. 2. speaketh not of justifying Faith but of a Faith of working miracles as is cleare by the words themselves being fully cited which run thus Though I have all faith so that I could remove mountaines and have not charity I am nothing Oecumenius upon the place notes that by Faith there is not meant that Faith which is common to all Believers but a Faith peculiar to such as had the gift of working miracles And though Estius a learned Romanist in his Commentary upon the place seeke to draw it another way yet commenting upon 1 Cor. 12. 9. hee saith that the Greeke Expositors doe rightly understand it of that Faith which is spoken of Chap. 13. If I have all Faith c. that is of the Faith of signes and miracles as they call it which Faith hee saith is not properly a sanctifying grace but onely such a grace as is given for the benefit of others The other place viz. Jam. 2. 24. doth seeme to make against us but indeed it doth not For S. Iames saying that a man is justified by Workes and not by Faith onely meanes onely thus as Cajetan himselfe doth expound it that we are not justified by a barren Faith but by a Faith which is fruitfull in good Workes This appeares to be his meaning by his whole discourse from vers 14. to the end of the Chapter wherein hee bends himselfe against those who presume of such a faith as is without workes and more specially it may appeare by the verses immediately preceding wherein hee saith that Abraham was justified by workes when hee offered up Isaac and that Faith wrought with his workes and by workes was Faith made perfect and the Scripture was fulfilled which saith Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousnesse Now this clearly shewes that Abraham was justified by Faith and not by workes onely his workes did shew that his Faith was a true justifying Faith indeed and not as it is in many that pretend and professe Faith a vaine shew of Faith and a meere shadow of it For that which S. Iames citeth Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him for righteousnesse was as appeares by the story in the booke of Genesis long before that Abraham offered up Isaac and by those very words Saint Paul proveth Rom. 4. that wee are justified by Faith and not by Workes Therefore when S. Iames saith that by Abrahams offering up of Isaac that Scripture was fulfilled the meaning is that thereby it did appeare that it was truly said of Abraham that hee believed God and it was counted unto him For righteousnesse his readinesse in that worke to obey God did demonstrate that hee believed God indeed and that his faith was of a right stampe Thus also is it said that by workes faith was made perfect viz. even as the Lord said unto Paul My strength is made perfect in weakenesse 2 Cor. 12. 9. that is Gods strength doth exercise it selfe and shew how great it is in mans weaknesse So Abrahams workes did shew how great his faith was in this sense his workes did make his faith perfect not that they did adde any thing unto it no more then mans weaknesse doth adde unto Gods strength This opinion of yours saith the Marquesse S. Aug. de fide oper cap. 14. saith was an old heresie in the Apostles time and in the Preface of his comment upon the 32. Psal he calles it the right way to hell and damnation See Origan 5. to the Rom. S. Hilar. chap. 7. in Mat. S. Ambr. 4. ad Heb. Answ Austine de fid oper c. 14. speakes nothing against our Opinion but something for it That which hee speaketh by way of reproofe is against those who so thinke that Faith alone will suffice as that they heede not to doe good workes nor to order their life and conversation aright But this is nothing to us who are farre from holding such a Faith as that sufficient But in the same place Austine hath this for our purpose that when the Apostle saith that a Man is justified by Faith without the Workes of the Law hee did not intend that the Workes of Righteousnesse should be contemned but that every one should know that hee may be justified by faith though the workes of the Law did not goe before For saith hee they follow a man being justified they doe not goe before a man being to be justified If as this Father affirmeth a man must first be justified before hee can doe good workes then good workes are no cause of justification but an effect of it For the other place of Austine which the Marquesse alledgeth there is none such that I can finde viz. no preface of his comment upon Psal 32. but in the comment it selfe I finde this which makes for us Doest thou not heare the Apostle The just shall live by Faith Thy faith is thy righteousnesse What Origen saith on Rom. 5. having not his workes now at hand I cannot tell but I see what Bellarmine cites out of him on Rom. 4. and perhaps so it should have been in the Marquesse his writing However there is no doubt but Bellarmine would have made use of it if there had been any thing more for his purpose on Rom. 5. Now on Rom. 4. Origen saith that whose believe Christ but doe not put off the old man with his deeds their faith cannot be imputed unto them for righteousnesse This wee doe