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B13698 A dialogue or conference betweene Irenæus and Antimachus, about the rites and ceremonies of the Church of England: by Samuel Gardiner, Doctor of Diuinitie Gardiner, Samuel, b. 1563 or 4. 1605 (1605) STC 11575; ESTC S102819 49,951 71

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aymed at nothing but the peace of the Church For otherwise there could haue beene no agreement betweene the Iewes and the Gentiles If a man without breach of the common peace had eaten of any of those hee hadde not sinned against his conscience For otherwise Peter saith Acts 15.10 Why tempt yee God to lay a yoke vpon the Disciples neckes c. Col. 2.16 Matth. 15.11 And Paule saieth Let no man condemne you in meate and drinke And Christ himselfe That which entreth into the mouth defileth not the man Likewise Paul saieth Whatsoeuer is solde in the Shambles 1. Cor. 10.25 eate yee and aske no question Thus is the vse of them Ciuill and Politique So that wee haue the warrant of a good conscience to conforme our selues vnto them 3. Let the people likewise be informed that they are appoynted for order and decencie sake and how needful it is that this order and comelines should be kept according to the streight direction of the Apostle 1. Cor. 14.40 Let all things be done honestly and by order The inhibitions of the Lawe That no man should sowe his ground with mixed seedes That beasts of diuerse kindes as the oxe and the asse should not goe together in the plow Leuit. 19. that no man should weare a garment of confected substances as linnen and woollen shoote and driue at the vnitie and vniformitie of the Church of God and beare downe flatly diuision and confusion Leuit. 1. The parts of the Calfe that were to be offered vppe for an oblation and sacrifice were orderly disposed and bestowed vpon the Altar a pile of wood being first fitly laide at the commaundement of God Ioseph in Aegipt feasting his bretheren had an especiall eye to order placing them in their ranckes at the Table Genes 43. Luke 9. seating euery one according to their age Christ himselfe approoued this course of order and as duely practised it feeding the people miraculously in the wildernesse and placing them by equall Companies by fifties in a rowe I might also returne your owne obiection against you as a reason to induce this conformitie in cases ceremoniall for offences are as vsually taken at the omitting them as the committing them which the Saintes of God very well perceiuing haue yeelded to the times and haue abridged themselues of their lawfull libertie thereby also to bring the more benefite to the Church of God For this cause as the Gospel noteth our Sauiour Christ paide pole-money for himselfe and Peter whereas being King and God and the true Messias hee was free by law and exempted from the tribute He kept the common custome for auoiding of offence Lest we should offend them go to the sea and cast in an angle and take the first fish that commeth vp and when thou hast opened his mouth thou shalt finde a peece of twentie pence that take and giue it vnto them for me and thee Yet in his question before to Peter Matt. 17.17 he had shewed his dispensation Of whom do the Kings of the earth take tribute or pole-mony Of their children or of strangers Thus Saint Paul accommodated himselfe to the seasons in circumcising Timothie whilst he considered how gainesome it would be to the weaker sort Acts 16.3 The same Apostle shaued his head in Cenchrea Acts 21.26 and entertained purifications according to the Law because he saw how that course would satisfie the weaker sort to toll them on to Christ And this was the vsuall practise of this Apostle in a subtile wisedome which our Sauour Christ commendeth to his apostles in this peece of precept Mat. 10. Be as wise as Serpents And so much he testifieth of himselfe saying To the Iewes I become as a Iew that I may winne the Iewes to them that are vnder the law as though I were vnder the Law 1. Cor. 9. ●● that I may winne them that are vnder the Law to them that are without the Law as though I were without the Law that I may winne them that are without the Law to the weake I become as weake that I may winne the weake I am made all things to all men that I might by all meanes saue some From this ensample and saying of the Apostle I dispute thus If the Apostle held it so expedient to the better insinuating himselfe into the soules of his people to beget them to the Gospel to repeate repealed ceremonies and to renew them being quite out of date the consequence is not to be rebuked that we inferre vpon it that wee may as well admit of indifferent ceremonies which candide simplicity first deliuered to the Church many ages fore-past which the Church hath still continued This was Ambrose his politique pietie and precept as Augustine sheweth in an epistle to Ianuarius Si non vultis errare facit● quod ego soleo August ad Ianuarium Ego enim ad quamcunque ecclesiam venis ad eius ceremonias me accommodo If yee will not doe amisse follow my course For to what Church I come I applie my selfe to the Ceremonies thereof For the Church is not to be depriued of her liberty which Christ would haue alwaies to be preserued whole without any maime or iniurie done vnto it Autim You seeme to disagree with your owne selfe for whereas you make these matters but indifferent by your so earnest taking their part you force them from their nature and vrge them as necessary Iren. In themselues they are indifferent but the Christian Magistrate commanding them whom wee stand bound to obey for conscience sake I hold them necessarie to be obserued Lawes Obedience are the two feete that beare vp the bodie both of the politique and spirituall state and the two armes that feede it and defend it If the lawes had not beene in these cases alreadie made I should neuer for my owne part wish to haue them made but seeing wee haue now such prescription for them and they are still enioyned vs I shall not be one to marre them Autius I cannot yet perswade my selfe to yeelde vnto you because I am at such strife with my selfe because heeretofore I haue with-stood them and haue beene so bitter against them the ceremonies hitherto haue beene my declamation and the staffe and stuffe of many of my sermons Now what shall become of them if I shall subscribe I shall seeme to looke vnder the brow to wagge with the times and to halte with the people Iren. If you haue exceeded your bounds heerein come into the way Humanum est errare It is not a motion against nature to erre Bernardus non vidit Om●ia quand●qú●●●xu●●●mitat Homerus The Prophets of God haue beene deceiued in their opinions and they haue beene ignorant in some things Nathan encouraged Dauid in his intendment of building God a Temple 2. Sam. 7.3 whenas it was no part of the Lords meaning but his will was that Salomon should performe it
not discerned which the vncreated Wisedome hath prouided for the good of all creatures which with a sodaine great mutation would not be alittle damnified Ars artium dsscsplina disciplinarum regere hominem saith Gregory Nazianzene It is an arte of all artes and a discipline of all disciplines to gouerne a people Nullum animal morosius est nullum maiori arte tractandum No creature is more froward than man and none is to be more politiquely handled Xenophon saith Seneca Facilius regere omnes alias creaturas quàm hominem It is casier to rule all creatures than man Nowe custome is an other nature with them and they easily doe that which they haue done alwayes but innouations will not be admitted without diuision and dissention wherefore prouidence and good heede is to be taken Cic. ad Attic libr. 11. Epist 19. as the Orator prescribeth in transposing lawes Vt quam minimo sonitit fiat That it may be doone with the least dinne and noyse that may be It is recorded of Augustus that hee compassed not all thinges that hee hadde plotted at the first but some things hee brought about presently the rest hee dispatched at his conuement time Antim But alittle to interrupt your counsell May not authoritie doe well to dispense with vs that are contrary minded for Conscience sake and so holde on the forme of Lawe in vse Iren. Aequalitaes prima pars aequitatis est saieth Seneca Seneca in epist The first and chiefe parte of Equitie is Equalitie There be many beside you that haue but small deuotion to some of the ceremonies did not publique lawe commend them and commaunde them And why should they be bound and you go free Such a dispensation would but breede more enny and diuision For if there were such heart-burning and affections in the brethren against Ioseph about a party-coloured garment do you thinke that there would not be oddes amongest vs in the difference of the garments while the one side take the other to be too Popish and the other the aduerse parte to be too peeuish I doe yeelde that there may be diuerse rites in diuerse Churches and that one may differ from another in gouernement As in Rome and Asia they vsually fasted euerie Sabaoth day but in Millaine they did not Aug. epist. 118. Policarpus and Anicetus kept the peace between themselues though the one woulde not yeelde to the other in ceremonies but each of them peremptorily maintained their owne customes but they were of seuerall Churches But my simple discretion can not see how it may stand with any conueniencie thar wee should haue a confected and compound estate of the Church that it should be as Bifrons Ianus beare two faces in one hoode and how such conniuencie and toleration should be any way tolerable It is the plea of the naturall mother before Salomons Tribunall That the childe should be in no wise diuided as the wrong mother woulde haue it but that shee might haue all or none at all I am the mouth of my brethren to our soueraigne Salomon that without partialitie euery one might be vnder lawe indifferently that as wee all of vs serue one Maister so that we may all of vs weare the like liuerie whether it be white or blacke we are indifferent as it pleaseth those that are at the sterne of gouernement whose wisedome wee knowe and whose trueth wee doe not suspect This was the cause that the Roman Empire continued so long and that in such prosperitie because the salte of Lavve seasoned all alike For as Epaminondas saith Then is peace established vvhen equalitie is preserued Cic. in A●● Morum similitudo coniungit amicitiam It is similitude of manners that ioyne friends together Wherefore Ius is called by the Orator Par Ci●er diuinat libr. 2. And this equalitie as saieth Euripides is the lavve of mankinde And this is my decision and determination of your latter question 5. Finally I conclude my counsell with my louing exhortation vnto you to entertaine these tolerable conditions for the peace sake of the Church vvhich we ought to put on as our own bowels vvhich is the sweete direction of the Apostle Paul I knovv not in how many places 1. Corint 1.10 as vvhen hee saieth I beseech you brethren by the name of our Lord Iesus Christ that yee all speake one thing and that there be no dissensions among you But be yee knit together in one minde and in one iudgement Rom. 15.5 Againe The God of patience and consolations giue you that yee be like minded one towardes another according to Christ Iesus That yee with one mind and with one mouth may praise God euen the Father of our Lorde Iesus Christ 2. Corint 13. Againe Liue in loue and peace and the God of peace shall be with you Againe Let your conuersation be as it becommeth the Gospel of Christ Philip. 1.27 that whether I come and see you or else be absent I may heare of your matters that yee continue in one spirite and in one minde fighting together through the faith of the Gospell Vnitie is the verie body of Diuinitie and the very scope and end of Christianitie vvhich vvhoso shall dissolue bringeth all things out of course For as the Apostle Paul disputeth it Ephes 4. We are all of vs but one joynt body vnder one head Christ Iesus one and the selfesame spirite quickeneth this body there is but one hope of our vocation one Lorde one faith one baptisme one God and Father of all vvhich is aboue all through all and in all It is all that Christ prayeth for to his Father for vs Iohn 17. when hee went to suffer Holy Father keepe them through thy name whome thou hast giuen mee that they may be one as wee are one And that no man should restraine this his prayer to the Disciples onely hee saieth immediately after I pray not for them onely but for those also that shall beleeue that they may be one as thou O Father in mee and I in thee that they also may be one in vs. Iohn 11. For this cause was his suffering as Saint Iohn professeth saying That the Sonne of God was not to die for the nation of the Iewes onely but to gather together in one the children of God that were scattered This was the legacie that our deere Sauiour be queathed at his death to vs Iohn 14. My peace doe I giue you my peace doe I leaue you If a Prince being to take a farre iourney shall leaue a jewell to his wife at the time of his departure as a signe of his loue towards her and shee should despise it when he is gone were she not to be charged with huge ingratitude But such is our vile nature towards our deerest Bridegroome Christ Iesus when wee so basely esteeme of his gift that he left with his wife the Church when he tooke his leaue of her Euery Armie
thou hast a bridle to checke him and hold him in if he be dull and will not goe thou hast spurres to put to his flankes so controle thy too extrauagant affections and keep them in as it were with bit and bridle that they get not the vpper hand of thee and let better reason and suggestion spurre and stirre thy dulnesse that thou maiest go on forward in the right way of thy Christian calling In any wise take Wisedomes counsel with thee Eccles 18. Psal 72. which saith Doe not after thine owne lustes But say and pray with Dauid Leade mee in the path of thy commaundements for rude am I and ignorant and as a beast before thee Secondly an other cause is because peace is a jewell of that rarenesse and price that the world can not giue it wherefore it is iustice when one robbeth an other hee should loose that is his owne God taketh away the peace that is ours because we take away the honour that is his and serue him no better There be sixe things which the Lorde dooth hate Prou 6.16 yea his soule abhorreth seauen the seauenth thing is one that raiseth vp contentions among brethren My brother thinke of this and flee from it as from the face of a Serpent It is daungerous to play by the hole of this Aspe and to nourish in thy bosome this lions whelpe to thine owne decay The defect of righteousnesse is the effect of discorde for men embrace peace for righteousnesse sake and by their vnrighteous courses they are diuided Wherefore the Kingly Prophet maketh righteousnesse and peace to goe hand in hand together like Hyppocrates two twinnes in this piece of Antheme and Ode Righteousnesse and peace haue kissed each other Psal 85. As in a well ordered clocke the wheeles and inward implements are so framed as they walke their circuites circles and stations alike and they all concurre in motion and rest together so that albeit there be very many peeces yet in course and concord are all one So in a Christian Church and common-wealth there should be such sympathie of affections as though the parties be many they shoulde so sute and answer one an other in correspondencie of minde as if they were consolidated and coadunated into one body and minde in preseruing the vnitie of the spirite in the bond of peace Ephes 4. Rom. 14 1● in the faithfull apprehension of the Apostles counsaile For the kingdome of God is not meate nor drinke but righteousnesse and peace As the spirite dooth not giue life to the members vnlesse they be ioyned together so the Spirite of God quickeneth not the members of the Church vnlesse they be vnited and bound fast together by the bond of peace When Salomons Temple was in building there was not within the Temple so much as the noyse of an hammer heard Prou. 24.27 the timber and stone were broken and hewed without which aunswereth the precept deliuered by Salomon Prepare thy woorke without and make ready thy things in the field and after builde thine house It is the burthen of our Ministerie to builde a temple to the Lorde God of Israel by bringing a people to God whome the Apostle calleth liuely stones to be ioyned to the corner stone Christ Iesus Wherefore let vs handle our hammers without and strike the enemies of the Gospel and not lift vp hand one against an other I winde vp this warning with the passionate speech of Augustine to Hierome in the controuersie betweene him and Ruffinus which was then the argument of euery ones mouth the by-word of the people and the great disturbance of the peace of the Church Vt moncor vt doleo vt timeo prociderem ad pedes vestros flerem quantum valerem rogarem quantum amarem nunc vnumquemque pro seipso nunc vtrumque pro altere pro alijs maxime infirmis pro quibus Christus mortuus est qui vos tanquam in theatro vitae huius cum magno sui periculo spectant ne de vobis ea conscribendo spargatis quae qua●doque concordantes delere non poteritis qui nunc concordare nolitis And I speake to you and to your learned zealous brethren in like maner How am I mooued how grieue I and feare If I were with you I should fall before your feete so much as I loued you I should intreate you I should weepe my vttermost I should beseech each one for himselfe and both for each other and for others especially for those for whome Christ died who beholde you as it were in the stage of this life to their great danger that you would not scatter those things in your Sermons and Writings of your selues which you can not reuerse when you may be made friendes who will not now be made friendes Sixtly let my last words be as the latter raine that may giue fatnesse to the cloddes by the influence of the cloudes that you putte not off your calling the Lorde hauing made you so able a Minister of the new Testament in the conceit that you haue taken against lawful discipline maturitie of Iudgement scanning and examining it You shall not onely thereby corrupt the occasion giuen you by God of dooing much good by your godly labours but you shal be causa sine qua non of much hurtful consequence while perhappes some Idoll Shepheard may succeede in your roome that will not onely not grudge at these orders but wil make no conscience of discharging his duetie in preaching vnto them If your owne conscience doe not accuse you in this course I shall not accuse you goe in peace But be it farre from me to make so little account of my function as to cast it vp for so slender occasion If the difference were in matters of faith then you should doe well to contend with your vttermost sides and not to giue place to damnable doctrine though it should cost liuing and life too Verse 3. It is the exhortation of blessed Iude that we should contend for the maintenance of the faith which was once giuen vnto the Saintes So did Moses against the idolatrous Amalekites Iosua against the Canaanites Sampson against the Philistines Dauid against the Moabites and Edomites Asa Ezechias Iosias against the Idole-mongers rounde about Paul had verie quicke and sharpe contention against the Iewes in the fundamentall and maine poynt of out Iustification by faith and against the sect and schoole of Philosophers in the cause of the trueth of religion against idolatrous Gentiles and false brethren who craftily crept in to steale away the Christians libertie If the Prince shall make lawes for Poperie and commaund vs to worship an Image wee wilsay with Daniels godly consorts Dan. 3. Exod. 32. Psal 16.2 Mac. 6. O King we will not worship the Image that thou hast set vp Wee may not with Moses indure a calfe in Israel or with Dauid the offences of blood or with Eleazar the eating of swines flesh
made thee a moderator ouer vs who arte thou that iudgest an other mans seruant Iames 4. saith the Apostle Iames There is but one Lawe-giuer who is able to saue and destroy Who arte thou that iudgest and others seruant saieth Saint Paul We shall all stand before the Tribunall seate of Christ Rom. 14. saieth the same Apostle from whence hee inferreth this sentence of exhortation as a iust coherence and consequence 2. Cor. 10. Iudge not therefore before the time vntill the Lord commeth who shall lighten those things that are done in darkenesse and shall reueale the secrets of the heartes and then shall euerie one haue praise of God Place these Scriptures in one classie and summe them together and they giue thee clusters of notable conclusions Because he is an other out of thy skinne and of a forraine bodie secondly and hath another maister thirdly and is thy brother fourthly and that one Lawe-giuer his maister hath power of life and death and his Lawe must be the Iudge fiftly and the time of Assises and iudgement is not yet come For these causes iudge not another If thou beest a magistrate iudge him by law if a priuate man iudge him in loue and first iudge thy selfe lest thou be iudged If these reasons may haue no rule ouer you but your tongues must needes bee the scourge of the ceremonies and of such as performe them taxing and traducing vs as Papistes or Proctors and Protectors of Popish trash to such detractors and carowsers rather than correctors We answer as Augustine against Petilia●●s to his wrongfull defamation saide against that father in case of hereticall prauitie and maintenaunce of the assertions of the Maniches Now sum Manichaus eligite ●●i credatis ego sum ex area Christi si malus tum palea si bonus fr●●●entum bon●● sum Libr. 3. de Bap. contr Donat. cap. 10. cap. 12. non est autem huius curae ventilabrum lingua Petiliani I am no Manichee choose whome ye will beleeue I am of Christs threshing floore if I be euill giuen then am I chaffe if well affected then am I good againe howsoeuer Petilians tongue must not be the same that must fift mee Yea to such hath this sentence of Scripture application Stand aparte come not neere to me For I am holier than thou Isai 65.5 There haue neuer such bin wanting of whome Seneca speaketh Qui etiam te per ornamenta ferient that shall strike thee by thy vertues Seneca And it is the same wise mans obseruation Vt quisque est contemptissimus ita solutissimae lingua est the more the person is contemptible the more is his tongue soluble There is nothing easier than to reprooue an other and nothing harder than to know himselfe as the Philosopher Thales speakes rightly If wee haue chosen the worst parte in the apprehension of the moderne gouernement that is no dispensation to you to estrange your selues from our Sermons Our good sayings doe appertaine to you our euill dooings belong to vs alone leaue vs that is ours and in the feare of God take you that is yours If we heale not our owne sores as it becommeth vs while we cure your woundes If our salte may season you though it looseth his sauour in our selues If wee while wee are as a piller of fire to lighten your darkenesse are darkenesse our selues If while we frame you an Arke suffer shippewracke our selues If while wee leade you towardes Canaan the promised Land wee our selues die by the way If while we preach to others wee become reprobates our selues If we plant a Vineyard and eate not of the 〈…〉