needs exceed that number by many degrees Not ecclesiastical Lastly which is your 3. slanderous absurditie who told you that the gouernment ordained in the 11. of Numbers was Ecclesiasticall The very place it selfe and all the circumstances thereof doe prooue it to bee ciuill And so our men that haue written of this argument would haue taught you Master Cornel. Bertram de potialud cap. 6. if you had sought the trueth of the cause out of their writings The holy story it selfe maketh the matter to bee out of controuersie which is this in effect Numb 11. There grew an vniuersall murmuring among the people because they had not flesh to eat The authoritie of the rulers ouer thousands rulers of hundreths c. ordained by the aduise of Iethro reached not beyond the number allotted vnto theÌ„ So that the defection of the people being generall and it may bee many of their rulers ioyned with them they would not haue an answere nor bee pacified by the inferior officers but they come to Moses the chiefe gouernor would haue him to giue theÌ„ flesh Moses being sore vexed with the outcries against him expostulateth with the Lord thinking himselfe to be hardly delt with that there was none apointed for the restraining of the general â—â—â—â—itude but he himselfe alone Herupon the Lord commanded him to gather 70. of the Elders of Israell Verse 16. such saith the text as hee knew to be governors of the people the Lord would appoint theÌ„ as assistants with him to take the generall charge of the people that when the multitude would not be ruled by their inferior officers as the rulers of 1000. c. these 70. elders should be armed by the Lord with authority and gifts to beare the burthen with him and it was peformed accordingly Now M. Bancroft for whose assistance were these Elders appointed the word expresly setteth down that they were to assist Moses and therefore the offices wherunto they were ordeined were ciuil wheras if they had bin ecclesiastical they should haue bin appointed helpers vnto Aaron not vnto Moses For Moses at this time was no more to intermedle with the priesthood because Aaron his sons Num. 16.10 Exod. 28.1 were now consecrated thervnto the tribe of Leui allotted to assist Aaron euen to take the charge with him of the whole congregation Numb 3.7 in respect of the tabernacle The last time that euer Moses dealt in the office of the priesthood was at the consecration of Aaron his sons but froÌ„ the time that Aaron was receued in to the office Moses neuer medled with it any more Leu 8.90 Exod. 28.1 29.44 38.44 30.7 Leuit. 1.5 cap. 8. 9. Num. 16.10 Num. 11.23 So the cause is to clear that they who were appointed to assist Moses not Aaron wâ—â— ciuil ecclesiastical rulers Where it is said than the 70. Elders prophisied it can no more proue them to belong to the gouernment of the church then the like gift bestowed vppon Saule 1. Sam. 10.10 can make him a church-officer Seeing then M. Bancroft the platforme of Gouernment whereof you speake was neither appointed at mount Siuai nor by the counsell of Iethro nor yet ordained for the regiment of the Church but for the vse of the ciuill state and seeing you can father this exposition vpon none of these whom afterward you call the cleargie and layitie factions the consequent is that your owne ignoraunce in the cause of Christs gouernement which you oppugne hath coyned vs this most vnlearned and sencelesse exposition wherein you doe no more I grant then that which is the common custome of all your fellowes And that is to imagine that these who by the goodnes of God are seen in this cause can bring no better reasons for the defence of the same then you whose ignoraunce therein is manifest and ridiculous vnto vnto all men And indeed for your part M. Bancroft if you had any modesty in you shame of the world to omitte the conscience and sound feare of God which ought to be in a Minister of the Gospell as you would bee accounted you would giue your selfe little rest vntill either you had named vs some of these very many who affirme as you haue set downe or make open confession of your great ignorance in that cause whereunto you haue beene alwaies so great an enemy The reader may well know that you haue set downe these thinges rather of meere ignorance then of single malice only because otherwise you that are so ready to take any aduantage against your aduersaries and their arguments would haue bene glad to haue found so many breaches in one poore reason of theirs And though you would neuer so faine auoid this blot of your insufficiency yet your owne words following do witnesse that you haue spoken of the cause euen according vnto the deep knowledge that you haue thereof where you say that the Iewes in their particular Sinagogues did imitate this gouernement ordained by Moses in mount Sinai at the counsell of Iethro As though euery particuler Sinagogue of the Iewes could affoord 70. elders that were knowen to be the gouernors of the people to attend vppon the regiment of the Church It appeares that you are well seene either in the ciuill or Ecclesiasticall politie of the Iewes which appoint these elders vnto their particuler Sinagogs You might as well saye that wee in England in the gouernement of our particuler parishes by Church-wardens and Side-men doe resemble the maiestie that is in the assembly of Star chamber or at the Counsel table as that the Iewes in their particuler Sinagogues did imitate the gouernement of the 70. Elders who being ioyned in authoritie with Moses are manifested to bee the highest ciuill officers that were in all the congregation of Israel and both before and after the captiuâ—ty they are saide by the learned to haue the highest authority in the Common-wealth of the Iewes next vnto the supreame Magistrate If you had bene but meanely seene in Iosephus to omitte other writers you could not haue beene ignorant of this point The name Elder it may be is that deceiues you thinking belike that wheresoeuer wee read of any called Elders in the Scriptures wee presently take the place as making for the Eldership vnder the Gospell Wee thinke farre otherwise then so because wee finde the Gouernours of the Common wealth Reade Genesis 50.7 Iosuaâ— 6.11 as well as the rulers of the Church to be called Elders by the spirit of God Whatsoeuer then you say of false Prophets as you speake much of them in your Sermons the reader seeth that at your first assault of the cause of Christs Gouernement you haue manifested your selfe to bee of their number that speake euill of the thinges they knowe not which the holy Ghost maketh to be a marke of these false teachers 2. Pet. 2.13 by whom the way of truth in the
off after his wonted manner with idem peridem leauing his auditors in as great doubt as they were before And saith that the doctrine of the Church of England is pure and holy Page 89. lin 27 the gouernement thereof both in respect of her Maiestie and of our Bishops is lawfull and godly the booke of Common praier containeth nothing in it contrary to the word Her Majesties gouernement he knoweth well enough we call not in question He and his patrons haue corrupted the doctrine of our church as for the hierarchy cōmon booke when he hath made vp that holes which I haue alredy shewed to be in both besides the vncureable woundes that other men haue discouered he may build somthing vpon his conclusion which if he doe not his maner of disputation in crauing and begging the matter in cōtrouersie will in a while growe to bee a common prouerbe If we were such vnreasonable men as we would find salt with matters that are blamelesse his exhortation that priuate men would take heede page 8◠89. and the Magistrate take punishment of vs would carry vvith it some vvaight But in asmuch as both the Magistrate and people see that vvee haue cause to speake and perceiue that out aduersaries can doe litle if they cannot set a faire face vpon a crackt cause wee feare not any great hurt that his tongue can worke vnto vs. And the very same account doe we make of his speach where hee saith Page 94. that wee vse the same argumentes for the soueraigntie of our Presbiteries against the Prince in causes Ecclesiasticall that the Pope doth for his principallitie in the same and we answere as the Papists do him This is VVhitgifts quarel and answered long since But these thinges as hee saith hee cannot stand to prooue at this time onely hee thought it necessary to aduertise his hearers of it that they might the better beware of such kind of spirits Take his aduantage who list We care not how little a doo we haue at the Arches Answere and therefore we meane not to take any great aduauntage against your tongue any further then your blushing may be for the clearing of the truth The reader will thinke you worthy to be marked in the forhead according vnto the Romaine lawe except you prooue this which you haue so confidently set downe Though as it should seeme you haue a commission to vse your tongue and pen at your pleasure yet you cannot blot out the light of mens reading knowledge We are known to be so out of amitie in this case especially with all Romanists and you truly accounted to be so neerly allied vnto them that wee desire no other weapons to strike downe the hierachie then M. Luther and M. Caluine haue vse to ouerthrowe the Romaine chaire and her ministers How often shall it be tould you Page 95. that we would haue no ciuill matters handled in any ecclesiasticall meeting and therfore that we admit not anything in our assemblies to be decreed against the constitutions of Princes any further then Princes may account the truth of the word to bee against their statutes We are as far from making our owne wils Page 96. 97. to be the rules of other mens liues or from affirming that what wee speake is the very word of God as you are from being ashamed to lie in the face of the sunne you haue taken great paines in sowing the seed of most grosse vntruthes repent betimes least in the Lords iust iudgement you reape the fruits of your lying tongue Concerning M. Cartwright Page 97. 9S 100. VVE depend not vppon men Christ Iesus is our onely guide As concerning M. Cartwright whome you to keepe your tongue in vre with your naturall vaine call our ring leader wee blesse God that euer he hath vouchsafed vs such an instrument to stand in the defence of his holy gouernment and to giue your hierarchie and your high Prieste the shamefull foile But we follow him no further then he attendeth vpon the truth of his God And in that worke we are not ashamed to glaine after so worthy a man But what can you lay to his charge you say that hee alleadgeth Cyprian Ierom c. to prooue the equality that ought to be in the ministers of the word and Sacraments and that in the ancient times there was no difference betwixt a Bishop a Priest but that whosoeuer was a Bishop was a Priest also and that they had all equall authority within their own parishes whereas the cleane contrary say you is to be seene in their writings Then heauen and earth bee you iudges in this caus◠that the mouth of this slanderer may be stopped First the place of Cyprian lib. 1. epist 3. calleth him a Priest Defence 355. whome D. Whitgift would haue to be an Archbishop the papists affirme to be his elder brother the pope Therefore by Cyprians iudgement whosoeuer was a Bishop was a priest Again Cyprian speaking of the election of a priest by the consent of the whole people lib. 1. epist 4. hee maketh the same maner of electing Cornelius Bishop of Rome and calleth his Bishopricke a priesthood lib. 4. epist 2. Nowe Tom. 1. Can. lib. 4 epist 9. that Cyprian condemned superiority among Bishops or ministers his sentence in the counsell of Carthage prooueth it where hee saith that none of them made him selfe a Bishop of Bishops he also reprooueth Pupianus that he made himselfe a Bishop of a Bishop As to Ierom 2. Reply 1. part pag. 591. Ierom. ad Euag M. Cartwright alleadgeth these places out of him A priest that is to say a Bishop and a little after the Apostle doth plainely teach that a Bishop and a priest are all one And in another place Ad Oceanum a Bishop and a priest are the same againe although with the ancient fathers Bishops and priests were al one Now good reader beare witnesse whether Maister Cartwright hath falsified the ancients or not whether this past shame Doctour hath not cause to sow vp his lippes for euer opening them in pulpit again For the confirmation of the equalitie of Ministers that the name Bishop was common vnto al the Ministers of the word and Sacraments in the ancient times thou maiest adde vnto that which hath bene already spoken Ignatius ad Smyrnensis First the testimony of Ignatius which saith that it was not lawful for any to baptise but for the Bishop Where then M. Bancroft was the distinction betweene him and the priest or hys superioritie ouer the priest Secondly that in the time of Gregory the great priestes did ordaine Bishops and yet this is made one of the essentiall differences betweene a Bishop and a priest Greg in Euan. a VVhitgift page 387. a that a Bishop may ordaine whereas a priest hath no such authority Thirdly that Theod. mencioneth an 150 Bb. which were met for the election of the
to atchieue his purpose And that is neither to father vpon vs such thinges as we neuer maintained nor yet to bring the testimonies of men to oppugn our conclusions whose grounds he is not able to shake but to set downe that which we holde indeed and with reasons rather to answere our premisses then with authorities to strike at our conclusions The contrary dealing may colour and white line the breaches of his cause for a time but in the end it will prooue to be the ruine thereof Vnconscionable and sophistical dealing can neuer be able to stand any long time He and his Masters would gladly beare the Magistrat in hand that we deny the congregations in England where the word is truly preached and the sacraments rightly administred to be the visible churches of God wheras the truth is that the Bishops and not we doe maintaine this error Let the reader judge whether I truly accuse them by this which followeth The visible church of God wheresoeuer it bee hath the power of binding â—nd loosing annexed vnto it as our sauiour Christ teacheth vs. Mathew 18. which authority is so essentially tied vnto the visible church that wheresoeuer this power is to bee found there the church of Christ is also visible Our Bb. are scismatickes and deny the assemblie of England to be visible church of God booke of Martins page 5. 6. and wheresoeuer there is a visible church there this authority cannot bee denied to be The which point that reuerend father M. Iohn Fox teacheth more at large Now the reader cannot be ignorant that our Bishops wil neuer grant that the visible congregations in England ought to haue this power of binding and loosing for then should they manifest themselues to bee professed tyrants The crime therefore of Scisme and Donatisme which M. Bancroft and the Prelates would fasten vpon vs doth justly clâ—aue vnto them selues And if any of our poore brethren be caried away to thinke otherwise of the congregations of England which inioy the woorde truly preached and the right vse of the Sacramentâ— VVe cease not to pray that the Lord would reforme their iudgements But woe bee vnto our Bishops which are the cause of this their stumbling and maintainers of their error For the pore brethren doe holde nothing in this point but that which the learned fathers as M. Bancroft calleth them haue decreed And you shall see in this Treatise that he seeth no reason why Popery being now abollished Sermon pag. 3 wee should not reply vppon the determinations of these fathers as other men in time past of a great iudgement as we are haue done Let our Bishops then and their vpholders whisper into the eare of the Magistrate what they will it shall bee prooued in the end that they are the scismatickes and not we It shall appear that they are growing to make a body of their owne wherewith the church of God in a while if they hold on their course can haue no mote to do then in times past in had with the scismaticall Donatists The deuill indeede hath within this twelmoneth shewed himselfe to bee grieuously wounded in their persons because he hath raged so mightily as these 32. yeares his furie was neuer seene so great against the truth as at this present That vile and scurrilous Palmphlet An almond a Patrot latey suffered to come abroad by their priuity if not allowance and in their defence doth euidently shew that sathan feeleth the power and sway which he was wont to bear by vertue of the hierarchie to be greatly weakned And because he feareth that his time vnder their gouernment cannot be long therefore he meaneth now to infect the aire at once with all his contagions The strength which they get by such leud and filthie stuffe the discredit which thereby they worke either vnto the cause or the men and women whome they suffer to bee so vnworthilie traduced is not other then it were to bee wished that seeing they will needs be filthy they would publish such another booke euery day That then it might appeare indeede whose sonnes they are And this is all the confutation that I thinke so godles leud a scrole to deserue For thy selfe good reader thou seest the time of triall to be now at hand euen at the doore If thou meanest to be partaker of Christes kingdome after this life take heede that neither the feare of men nor the loue of the world draw thee to shrinke from any part of that truth which the Lorde hath reueiled in his word The Lord saith that whosoeuer shall be ashamed of him or his worde that is any part of his truth before men Luk. 9.26 of him shall the sonne of man be ashamed when he commeth in his glory VVell I thinke it now no time to dally with the Lord and his word but let vs craue strength at his hand that we stand vnrebukeable vnto the day of his appearance A BRIEFE DISCOVERY OF THE VNTRVTHES AND SLANDERS AGAINST Reformation and the fauourers thereof contained in D. Bancrofts Sermon D. BANCROFTS TEXT 1. Iohn 4.1 Dearely beloued beleeue not euery spirite bâ—â—â—â—ie the spirites whether they be of God For many false Prophets are gone out into the world ANSVVERE IT hath bene the ancient custome of Sathan and his instruments in all ages I answere not the word but the abuse of the word to abuse the holy worde and name of God as a ground vnto all their vngodly proceedings against the Lorde and his Saints that there by they might haue some colour of their persecutions and wicked attempts against the truth and professors thereof That I bee not tedious in a matter too apparant hence it is that in all the condemnations of the holy Martyrs of Christ by that Romane Tyrant We see all their processes to begin in the name of God the accusasions laid to the charge of the Saints to bee so boulstred out with the testimonies of holy Scripture as though the spirite of God had none to condemne of heresie scisme sedition and treason saue onely the members and messengers of Christ Iesus And therefore M. Bancroft if you begin with Scripture and as I may say in the name of God begin to speake against God against his blessed verity and people you doe but your kind in treading the steppes of your predecessours You haue your forefathers the Scribes and Pharises that Antichristian beast of Rome his Cardinals Bishops Legates inquisitors and all others that haue coloured their garments with the bloud of the Lords chosen for your presidents and examples The delusion of your course could not bee so great if you did shewe your selfe in your colours Your Sermon declareth that your affection serueth you rather to fight against the truth with fire and fagot then by sober writing or speaking to stand in the defence of your cause Well you deale against false Prophetes Scismatiques giddy spirites disturbers of the church enemies
to her Maiesties estate and prerogatiue And wee on the otherside that fauour reformation doe from the bottome of our hearts entreat and beseech the eternall God speedily to conuert and turne all such if they be his or els with speed to ouerthrowe them in his fierce wrath And as for our selues in particular if we who in sincerity seeke the reformation of the Church of England be either false Prophets Scismatiques giddy spirits disturbers of the Church enemies vnto her Maiesties estate or person we do without exception entreat the Lorde in his fierie wrath and anger euen this hower to make vs visible monuments of his great indignatioÌ„ both in this life and in the day of the Lord Iesus roote the memory of vs and ours out of the Church and kingdome of England for euer that our most deare Soueraigne Queene Elizabeth may continue and end her daies not onely in the quietnes of her own conscience but also in the coniunction quietnes and vnion of the hearts of all her Subiects and people And wee offer not onely to cleare our selues by these our voluntary protestations made in the name and presence of the great God of heauen and erth but euen by shewing the goodnes of our cause according vnto the worde and answering whatsoeuer the aduersary bringeth against vs. And what can wee doe more Let vs then M. Bancroft see what you can say of vs or our cause Here I omit whatsoeuer in your whol Sermon is impertinent vnto us against whome you especially deale and come to the eight page thereof where at the first meeting you doe very brotherly salute vs by the names of false Prophets though of your courtesie your care not much if you omit the name D. BANCROFT Pag. 8. line 10. Lastly they are false Prophetes who do peruert the meaning of the Scriptures for the maintenance and defence of any false doctrine scisme of heresie Herof you know I might giue you many examples I pray you beare with me if I set downe one as strange in my opinion as any to be found in a matter of no great importance The name of false prophets I am content in diuers respects to suppresse The matter it selfe which I meane standeth in this sort There are many nowe a daies who doe affirme that when Christ vsed these wordes DTC ECCLESIAE Math. 18 He meant hereby to establish in the Church foreuer the same plot and forme of Ecclesiasticall Gouernement to be enâ—ct in euery parish which Moses by 〈…〉 counsell appointed in mount Sinay Numb 11. and which afterward theâ—â— was did imitate in their particular Sinagogues ANSVVERE They 〈…〉 read your Sermon will beare you witnes that you are sufficiently able to afforde your auditours an example of a false teacher And yet it were hard to account all those to be false Prophets without exception who peruert the meaning of the worde to the maintenaunce of euery point of false doctrine For we know that many of the true Ministers of God haue in the error of their iudgement held some points of vnsound doctrine and peruerted the meaning of the holy scripture for the maintenance of the same To speake nothing of Cyprian Chrisostome Ierome Augustme and especially Origen and Barnard who haue had euery one of them their blemishes and wrested the word for the defence thereof that worthy man of God M. Luther you know hath deliuered vniustifiable and false doctrine concerning the manner of receiuing of the thing signified to wit Christ Iesus in the Sacrament of the Lords Supper and as it may bee truly sayde hee hath peruerted many places of the worde for the maintenance of this his error yet M. Bancroft I thinke you will not inrolle him in the catalogue of false Prophets Wherefore if I denied the ground and principle of your reason and sent you again vnto your note book for a better description of a false Prophet I should do nothing contrary vnto equity and reason But I meane not to stand with you in a maner of so small moment seeing especially you do by this your discription teach the reader what account he is to make of you and your brethren of the same crewe who daily in your Sermons and writings do wrest peruert and abuse the sacred word of God for the maintenaunce of most false and pernicious doctrine whereof it may bee some thing shall be spoken hereafter But I pray you who are they that expound the words of our sauiour Christ Mat. 18. Dic ecclesiae Tell the Church to bee referred to the Ecclesiasticall gouernment which Moses by Iethroes counsell appointed in mount Sinai you say they are manie why then did you not name one of them or quote the writings of some one of them Euen indeed because you are not able to father this absurditie vpon none of those whome you would gladly beare the world in hand to be the maintainers therof A godlesse and slanderous shift of M. Bancroâ—â— And heere the reader is to bee aduertised that among many shiftes which you haue to obscure the truth delude your readers and auditors and to colour your slanderous vntruthes there is one whereof you make a speciall vse and that is to charge vs with the defence of such points as wee neuer held Thinking it sufficient for you to say that there are many now a daies who affirme that when our Sauiour Christ c. Whereas the error as you haue set it downe is so absurd and sencelesse and smelleth of such grosse ignorance as I assure my selfe that none who haue written in the cause of reformation since the beginning of her maiesties raign vnto this hower could bee so groslye ouerseene as to conceiue much lesse holde and maintaine any such thing as you haue vttered For first the officers appointed Num. 11. and I beseech the reader to marke were not ordained at mount Sinai Not at mount Sinai as you haue set down but as the holy Ghost expresly noteth at Kibroth Hataauah Numb 11. which was 3. daies iorney from mount Sinai compare Numb 10.33 with Numb 11 24.34 and 33.16 and Deut. 1.1 And therefore it is very absurd to aduouch that the 70. Elders mencioned Num. 11. were ordained at mount Sinai and it is no lesse false to giue our Not at the couÌ„sel of Iethro that these were the officers appointed by Moses at the couÌ„sel of Iethro For Iethroes aduise was put in execution Exod. 18.12 40.17 before the erecting of the Tabernacle euen in the first year of their departure out of Aegypt The ordinance of the 70. elders taken in hand after the setting vp of the Tabernaele Exod. 40.17 Numb 10.11 â—2 after the 20. day of the 2. moneth of the 2. yeare Againe the gouernours in Kibroth-Hataauah were but 70. or at the most 72. in number the other ordained by the counsel of Iethro being gouerners of 1000. gouernors of 100. gouernors of 50. gouernors of 10. must
latter ages should bee euill spoken of But heere you will saye that wee ground something for the proofe of the Eldershippe vppon the place of Math. 18. Tell the Church c. and that wee bring in the Iewishe Sinagogue for some purpose in this question True it is wee doe so And because you neither knowe as it appeareth what wee inferre nor weare able to aunswere them being made knowen vnto you therefore you did wiselie to set downe in our name your owne absurdities which of themselues with out any confuter desire for shame to be buried vnder the earth That which we affirme is this And we appeale vnto the conscience of the reader whether wee speake the truth or not First we prooue that the offices of Pastors Doctors Elders c. are perpetually to continue in the Church because the Lord hath appointed them to bee members thereof Romans 12.6.7.8 M. Cart 1. reply pag. 140. 141. Counterpoison Answere to Briges slanders And because Saint Paule writing vnto Timothie maketh the retaining of them in the Churche of Christ not arbitrarie matters left to the discretion of the Church but a commaundement which is to bee kept inuiolable vntill the appearing of the Lord Iesus Secondly we affirme that our Sauiour Christ did establishe Mathew 18. these wordes Tell the Church this Gouernment of his house by the offices of Pastors Doctors and Elders In that he commaundeth vs when a brother doth not profite by the degrees of priuate admonition which hee there mencioneth that wee should acquaint the Church with his offende Tell the Church saith hee By the Church in this place wee say that either the whole multitude must bee ment or some one man as the Bishoppe Chauncellour c. or els the Elders ioyned together with the Pastour and Doctrour if there bee any Nowe you will not say that a man should goe and seeke remedie at the whole multitude when his brother offendeth him On the other-side if you say that by the Church in this place is ment some one man in the Church and so goe tell the Church should bee The phrase of speach also that on man should be taken for the Church is vnwarrantable goe tell one man in the Church as the Bishoppe or Chauncellour The exposition is diuers vvaies prooued to bee false Because the degrees of proceedings which our Sauiour Christ setteth downe dooth ouerthrow it For wee are commaunded from a priuate reproofe of our brother between vs and him to rise vnto an admonition before one or two witnesses and so from two or three not to come backe again to make his fault known before one witnesse as the Bishop or Chauncelour but before many vz. the Church gouernors as before is set downe And in this speeche tell the assemblie of Church wee say that our sauiour Christ pointing out by the spirit of prophesie the gouernement of the eldership vnder the gospell doth allude vnto the forme of the Iews gouernment in their Sinagogues vnto whom whosoeuer gaue not eare was accounted as an heathen or a publicane This M. Bancroft is the sum of that which wee affirme out of Math. 18. when you can bring any thing against this exposition of the place you shall be answered by the assistance of God And it shall appeare whensoeuer you or yours dare abide the publike triall of your cause that there are not onely many that affirme this but also many that wil proue this to bee most true In the meane time wee refer the matter vnto the conscience of the reader whether you and your vpholders in expounding tell the church to be complaine to the Bishop or chancelour that is tell one man in the Church or wee which interprete the same to bee tell the gouernors of the Church to wit the Pastor Doctor and Elders ioyned together beeing not one but many doe peruert the meaning of the scripture and as his iudgement in these things shall be conuinced so let him account of you and vs accordingly D. BANCROFT page 9. They had say these men in their sinagogues the ◠priests we must haue in euery parish our pastors they their Leuite we our Doctors they their rulers of their sinagogues we our Elders they their leuittical treasurers we our Deacons ANSVVERE And what can you say against this saying of theirs if it be false why doe you not confute it your abilitie indeed to disprooue the afternoon you shewe in that you leaue it as you found it And that the reader may perceiue what madnes it were for you to go about to weaken any part heereof I will brieflie note out the places wherein these offices are mencioned both in the olde and new testament First then for the offices of Priestes and Leuites Numb 16 9.10 and Deut. 33.9.10 and there you shall see the Priests and Leuites so distinguished as although they were both of them to teach Iaacob the iudgements and Israell the lawe yet was the Prieste alone to put incense before the face of the Lord Now vnder the new Testament answerable vnto the Prieste and Leuite there is the Pastor and the Doctor Ephe. 4 11.12 and both of them appointed for the gathering together of the Saintes by the worke of the ministerie yet both of them distinguished in their speciall subiects The one of them to attend a Rom. 12.7.8 vpon the gift of teaching the other vpon exhortation the one of thē to be in an especiall fort b 1. Cor. 12.8 indued with the word of knowledge the other with the word of wisedome Concerning those who in the new c Acts 12.15 c 18.8 testament are called the rulers of the Sinagogue the spirit of God in the old nameth them d 2. Chro. 19. ◠the Princes or the chiefe of the families who although they were not of the tribe of Leui yet were they appointed for the cause and iudgements of the Lorde as well as the Priestes and Leuites themselues In like manner 2. Tim. 5.17 Rom. 12.8 Act. 20.28 1. Cor. 12.28 there are Elders in the newe Testament bearing a distinct office from the Pastor and the doctor and yet appointed to rule ouersee the house of God by vertue of their owne proper function Lastly as vnder the lawe wee finde Church treasures vnto whose custody 1. Chro. 26.20 28 2. Chro. 31.13.15 the dedicate thinges belonging to the sacrifices and the maintenaunce of the Leuites were committed So in the kingdome of Christ vnder the newe couenaunt are Deacons appointed Act. 6.2.3 Rom. 12 8.9 1. Tim. 3.6 whose office is neither to medle with the word and Sacraments nor yet with the gouernment of the house of God but onely to attend vppon the goods of the Church and the right distribution of them to the vse of the poore c. I omit heere that as the Gebonites and the Nethinimes were imployed about the inferior and baser offices of the temple and tabernacle so the holy ghost
hath appointed Church seruaunts and widowes to the same purpose vnder the Gospell Heere by good reades thou seest that not onely wee but the holie ghost also saith those thinges concerning the regiment of the Church hoth vnder the new and olde Testament which Maister Bancroft is not able to gaine say with any colour of truth And yet it were season that either his answere or his consent should be had M. BANCROFT This forme of gouernement they cal the tabernacle which God hath appointed the glory of God and of his sonne Iesus Christ the presence of God the place which he hath chosen to put hi◠name there the courte of the Lord and the shining forth of Gods glory ANSVVERE Although I deny not but the true gouernement of the Church by the Eldershippe might haue the most of these titles truly attributed vnto it wherewith the visible Church vnder the new Testament is adorned yet the most of those names which you set downe being something insolent and strange I make no doubt but all modest writers would abstaine from them Especially knowing how subiect this cause in our time is vnto the godlesse cauils of suche as care not what they write to the disgrace thereof And because you haue set them down with out any authority for mine owne part I can no otherwise thinke of them then of the brood of your owne slaunderous spirite whereunto you can find no couert vnder the wings of your aduersaries whē you haue produced your witnesses to prooue them none of yours I will in this point alter mine opinion and it stands you vpon to cleare your selfe That which followeth in your Sermon doeth manifest both your ignorance in the cause and also that you haue so acquainted your tongue and pen with vntruthes that you are a stranger vnto the wordes of veritie and vprightnes your wordes are these D. BANCROFT page 6. line 13. VVhere this ecclesiastical Synod is not erected they say Gods ordinance is not performed the office of Christ as he is a King is not acknoledged in effect with out this gouernement we can neuer attaine to a right and trewe feeling of christian religion but are to be reckoned among those Luke 19.27 who say of Christ we wil not haue this man to raigne ouer vs. ANSVVERE As though we desire ecclesiastical Synods to be erected in euery congregation and parish or that we make no difference betwene a Synod which is a meeting of al the ministers and elders if occasion should require or more properly of some choise ministers and elders in a whole prouince or more generall and the Eldershippe which containeth the gouernors to wit the Pastors Doctors and elders of one only congregation The reader may se what a meet man you are to be an inueigher against the eldership whereas you knowe not what it meaneth and whether a Synod and an Eldership be al one or not Where this forme of ecclesiastical gouernement is not erected there indeed we say that Gods ordinance concerning the regiment of his church is not wholy obserued but that his whole ordinance is wanting where there is a faythful teacher we neuer as yet affirmed And therefore if by your generall speach that wee say Gods ordinance is not performed c. you meane that we denye any part thereof to be where the gouernement by the Eldership is not established you doe but followe your owne humor that is beare false witnesse against the truth and those that professe the same The office of Christ as he is a King is boath to teach and to gouerne his church by his own lawes Our Bishops doe professe them selues to robbe the church of the scepter of gouernement which they haue tyranuously wrested to them selues therefore we truly say that they suffer Christ to haue but halfe a kingdome at the most vnder their jurisdiction and that we feare ful sore against their wills we grant indeed that many congregations in the land doe enjoy Christ Iesus raigning among them by the scepter of his word and wee doe day and night according vnto our weake measure of faith heartily thanke our God for this blessing and beseeche him from the bottome of our hearts to shew mercy vnto our soueraigne Queene Elizabeth vnder whose peaceable gouernment we are partakers of so inestimable a treasure Yet notwithstanding it is too well knowen what a straunger the sauiour of mankinde is to the most part within our lande because the voyce of his gospell is neuer effectually heard among them and so wee may truly say that the office of Christ as he is a king is no wise acknoledged vnder the jurisdiction of our Bishops in many places of our land Againe we do so thanke the Lord for the enjoying of his Gospel preached as we cease not humbly to intreate his majestie that leeing hee hath vouchsafed vs the lauour to bee of his householde it would also please him that wee may bee ruled by the offices and lawes of his owne house For what hath the Temple of God to doe with the gouernement and statutes of the kingdome of Antichrist And we doe protest that wee will giue him no rest vntill hee hath vouchsaued to heare our supplications euen in this point And yet in the meane time we doe acknowledge his office as he is a king and doe professe our selues without this Gouernement which wee labour for to haue attained vnto some right and true feeling of christian religion though not to such a measure as we hope to reach vnto whensoeuer the Lord shall graunt vnto vs the vse of his holy ordinaunce which wee so earnestly desire This may serue M. Bancroft for a sufficient confutation of your loose and vnbridled tongue which are not ashamed to publish that without this gouernement we holde that men can neuer attaine vnto a right and true feeling of religion we haue euermore affirmed the contrary are able to proue the contrary For wee holde that those 3000. soules which in one day were added vnto the Church at Ierusalem Act. 2.41 before the Eldership was established among the disciples had a true feeling of religion wee say the same of the Church of Creta Tit. 1.5 euen before euer Titus ordained elders in euery citie among them The like iudgement wee haue of the church of England at this day But as the spirite of God recordeth that notwithstanding these Churches of Ierusalem and Creet had a true feeling of Christ yet it behooued them to submit themselues according vnto Gods ordinance vnto the gouernement of the Eldership which a Act. 15.4.6 Titus 1.5 they enioyed So say wee of our selues in Englande and of all other Churches in our case that although our knowledge and feeling were neuer so great as alas it is but too too slender yet are we to be built further and further and wrought vppon by all the holy ordinances of God least wee be depriued of that inheritance which is to bee had among
aduantage that you haue bene suffered to preach and to publish many grounds of popery vnreprooued vnder the profession of the gospell The Church of God we reuerence to bee wilfull in standing against her or any member therof we holde it vnlawfull but that men should stand in matters of question vnto her determination as vnto the vndoubted voyce of God she hath no authority to require any such obedience at our hands I dare say for you that you are vexed at the verie heart that any thing established in the Conuocation house should bee called in question when you prooue that assembly to be lawfull and the learned fathers as you call them there met to bee true Pastors and not rauening wolues wee will promise to giue greater reuerence vnto their degrees Poperie is so bannished from amonge vs that by the authority of those learned fathers you dare in open Pulpit and publike writinges iustifie many points thereof Answere to the 46.47.48.49 pages It is not onely lawfull but necessary that all men of what state soeuer they bee should be required yea compelled by the Magistrate to subscribe vnto true religion 2. Chron. 14.12 cap. 34 31.32 2. Kings 11.17 Nehem. 9.38 10.29 This we doe willingly confesse Howbeit we hold it vnlawfull to subscribe in that forme that our Bishops do exact at our hands Your reason that subscription is lawfull therefore the English or the Augustane subscription is lawfull is no other then if I should say that religion is good therefore the popishe religion is good But of all other points in your booke I cannot but greatly wonder that you seeme to iustifie the subscription vnto the Augustine confession and the silenceing of those that would not subscribe vnto it Page 47. lin 24 You are not ignoraunt I thinke that the saide confession is vnsound in the point of the Lords supper which hath set Germany on fire these many yeares As for the subscription which in England is required by statute our men haue beene alwaies ready to yeelde vnto it But the learned fathers whereof you speake seeing that by the same subscription they could haue no aduantage against the truth haue coyned a new one of their own which we hold vtterly vnlawfull because it requireth our consent vnto the popish hierarchie vnto the Apocripha and many other corruptions The which course of theirs because they are not able to iustifie therefore haue you done well to finde out a waye whereby they may easilie determine of any question or difficultie mooued vnto them So that now if we deny to subscribe vnto that which against law they require of vs vntill we be satisfied in the douts wee make whether it may be lawfull for vs to maintaine the proud and ambitious superioritie of one minister aboue another the appointing of ignorant and godlesse men vnto the Ministerie the crosse in Baptisme the prophanation of that Sacrament by women with other manifolde abuses which we are vrged to approoue their answere may be according vnto your rule that they beeing the learned fathers of our Church haue in their lawfull assemblies decreed that this subscription should bee called for and they see no reason why popery being now bannished c. wee should not attribute as much vnto their decrees as other men in times past haue done Looke M. Bancroft in the place set downe before And so if we were dutifull children we would submit our selues without any wilful contradiction vnto their godlie determination seeing the Lord hath by his promise tied himselfe vnto them being his Church for this purpose Now if we shall reply any thing againe as being vnsatisfied by this resolution wee are presently cried out vppon as being giddie Spirites and men that cannot bee content with any good order established by lawe and approoued by our betters euen such as gaue their bloud for the testimony of the truth And thus in stead of answering our reasons they inuent slanders against vs and fall out with our conclusion according vnto Master Bancrofts manner of dealing Whereof as I haue often before admonished the reader so nowe I haue special occasion to put him in minde of the same concerning his dealing with vs touching the booke of common prayer and the point of her maiesties supremacy Wherein he spendeth 20. pages for the most part From the 50. to the 72. pages wee shewe diuers corruptions to be in that booke wee set downe the particulars as baptim by weomen crosse in baptime ring in matriage appropriating of garmentes to the vse of religion and grosser coruptions as Arianisme where the booke maketh Michael to bee a creature The Collect on Michaels day and addeth vnto the word as psalme 14. in which place 3. verses that is the 5.6.7 are added vnto the text more then euer the holy Ghost penned in that psalme with other grieuous corruptions which I passe ouer Nowe howe doth M. Bancroft thinke you deale for the credit of the booke in answering these particulars hee toucheth not one of them but first of all hee telleth his auditors howe glad al the churches in Europ were at the establishing of religion Page 15. in the beginning of her Maiesties raigne And for our partes wee wish them confusion that doe not reioice at it Page 53. From 54.58 Secondly hauing set down what paines was taken in reforming the booke hee bringeth in diuers testimonies of godlye learned men to prooue that the booke is in a manner without spotte or wemme whereby what doth hee els but fall out with our conclusion Wee charge the booke with diuers particular corruptions we bring our proofes Page 61. he is not able to answere them Therefore our conclusion wil stand firme that the booke is corrupt The general commendations of all the men in the world is not able to cleare it when it is not denied to containe many grosse particular falts Thirdely he falleth a quarreling with a newe communion booke preferred in parliament Page 62.63 the yeare 86. and caueleth diuers waies against the same As that it had bin diuers times altered that it mencioned not the ciuil magistrate in the first edition and that it doth not tye the minister to any set forme of prayer c. Al which points I omit as friuolous and vngodly cauils not to be stood vpon Lastly he falleth to his olde bias that is to plaine slaundering Page 67. and affirmeth that one of our reasons whie wee holde the established gouernment of the church of England to be Antichristian is because the ciuil Magistrate is made a Pope amongst vs and that we cal her maiesties supremacie vnto question wherevnto wee answere no otherwise then Nehemiah did Sanballat Nehem. 6.8 It is not done according vnto these wordes that thou sayest but thou fainest them of thine own hart Looke whatsoeuer prerogatiue in ecclesiastical or ciuil causes hee or any man liuinge can truly attribute vnto the ciuil magistrate wee
do the same Concerning the preheminence in ciuill causes there is no great question he wil say between vs Page 71. only in ecclesiastical matters we assume vnto our selues saith he that authoritie which by right is the magistrats This slander is general we desire the particular proofe of it wee cannot answere generalles hee repheth that the magistrate by lawe is to haue whatsoeuer priuiledg the pope at any time had with in this land by vsurpation Page 70. lin 3. what will hee conclude hereof Not I hope that the magistrate is to haue the power of remitting sinnes and dispensing with the law of God which the Pope by vsurpation had in times past within this kingdome Her Maiestie wee know detesteth al such prerogatiues from her hart But what is it that he requireth to be graunted vnto the ciuil authoritie which wee yelde not most willingly The power to establish godly ecclesiastical lawes and constitutions amongest the subiects wee are so far from denying this that wee holde it intollerable that our Bishops and the conuocation house should intrude their subscriptions aduertisements and cannons vpon the subjectes whereas no such things can be warraÌ„ted by statute And whereas hee sayth that wee claime vnto our Presbiteries the ordinary authoritie to make al lawes constitutions and ceremonies of the Church it is most false Al that wee affirme in this point is noe more then her majestie voluntarily yealdeth in all such cases when the question is whether such or such a case be statute law or not whether doth M. Bancroft think her majestie or her learned councel in the lawe as her judges Solliciters Atturneis c. to haue greatest skill in the deciding of this matter he knoweeth well enough that her Majesty in all such points will be directed by that which her aforesaid lawiers do prooue to be law and equitie and yet thinketh her royall prorogatiue no whit diminshed thereby In the like case then we say that the true gouernors of the church are meetest to direct her majesty what lawes and ceremonies are most lawfull expedient necessary for the right gouernment of the church And we say that as her majestie in worldly matters is to giue eare vnto the Lawiers which haue skill in that facultie so in the matters of God is she to establish nothing in the church but that which the true ministers and true gouernors if they may bee had shall shew vnto her to be according vnto the worde of GOD. And yet all this while wee make not the gouernours of the Church to haue power to enact laws we leaue that authoritie vnto her Majesty and the Parliament vnto whose hands the Lord hath committed it This indeed we affirme Moreouer that her majesty and the Parliament are bound to establish and erect amongst their subiects al such lawes and ceremonies as the true Ministers of the word shall prooue by the Scriptures of God to bee meet and necessary for the gouernment of the temple and house of the Lord within this kingdome And that they are bound to see that no forme of religion or Church-gouernment be in force amongst the subjectes but that alone which by the word of God may bee prooued lawfull and so that they are bound to see that the Church of God bee clensed and purified of all Idolatrous popish superstious and superfluous gouernment and ceremonies And furthermore we say that they are to prouide by law that all persons both Ministers and others doe submit themselues without contradiction vnto all such things as shall bee godly established in the Church Whether this bee M. Bancroft to weaken or call into question her Maiesties prerogatiue in Ecclesiastical causes let the reader determin We would also desire him to iudge whether her Majestie be well vsed at your hands which call her a petty Pope and say that shee vsurpeth the same authority in causes page 68. lin 2â— Ecclesiasticall with in her dominions which the pope did in times past Had we coÌ„ceiued much lesse published any such things wee had worthily smarted for it Your answere heere will be that you did bring in this reason to shew the weakenes of Martins arguments against the Bishops Let Martin in other points answere for himselfe The case of her Majestie and our Bishops are not alike He prooueth our Bishops to be petty Popes and vsurpers you denie it not And therefore you onely addresse your selfe to shew what a rebellious and absurd conclusion hee hath made by the like kinde of reasoning as you suppose And where his minor truly assumeth our bishoppes to be vsurpers and petty Popes you falsely and standerously charge her Maiestie to bee an vsurper and a petty Pope Wee are not so hastie to shead bloud as you are otherwise this your vndutifulnes is so heinous that I could easily shewe that there were no other waye of desence for you but in the acknowledgement of your rash boldnes to giue your doings no worse tearmes to flie vnto her Maiesties clemency TOVCHING SCOTLAND VVE answere that we desire not the Eldershipp to be planted in the Church of England From the. 72. to the 78. page because Scotland or Geneua enjoyeth the same but in asmuch as Christ Iesus the head king of his church hath commaunded it to bee therein And therefore we admit the gouernment of no church vnder heauen to be the pâ—â—â—â—â—e of that which we desire but only that regiment which is set downe in the word of God the perfection whereof if any Church hath attained vnto wee rejoice with them and desire to be pertakers of so great a blessing in the Lods good time But as for any thing that is amisse if there be ought either in Geneua or Scotlande wee labour no more to haue that established in England then we doe to haue the great abuses that raigned in the Church of Corinth or Galatia to be imitated The slaunder which you haue raised Page 75. both against the Kings Maiesty there in giuing out that he is a deadly enemy vnto the present gouernement established in his kingdome and watcheth but his time to ouer throw it and also against the godly ministers of that realm in making them traitors vnto their soueraign Heaue to be answered by theÌ„selues and I dout not but you wil in time be forced to answere the iniury that you haue offered vnto that godly and noble King oâ— and also vnto the whole Church with in his dominion But let it bee graunted that the true Church gouernours in Scotland behaued themselues rebelliously towards then Prince which yet is most false what is that to the Church gouernment which they enioly Doe you thinke it a good season to say that the Archbishop is a Traitour therefore the Archbishopricke is gilty of Treason You can not deny but Thomas Beckeâ— was a traitor so were diuers others that haue beene Archbishops of Canterbury but I trust you will not therefore attaint the Archbishopricke of treason