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A68210 A Christian letter of certaine English protestants, vnfained fauourers of the present state of religion, authorised and professed in England: vnto that reverend and learned man, Mr R. Hoo requiring resolution in certaine matters of doctrine (which seeme to ouerthrow the foundation of Christian religion, and of the church among vs) expreslie contained in his fiue books of Ecclesiasticall pollicie. Willet, Andrew, 1562-1621, attributed name.; Cartwright, Thomas, 1535-1603, attributed name. 1599 (1599) STC 13721; ESTC S107562 38,506 52

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we not keepe our robe pure and without spot vntill the comming of Christ and so bee iustified more and more by our works as the popish Cannons teach but pray by Christes commaundement euery day Forgiue vs our trespasses The Church of England beleeueth that Predestination vnto life is the eternal purpose of God whereby before the foundations of the world were layde hee constantlie decreed by his counsell vnto vs vnknowen to deliuer from the curse destruction them whom he chose in Christ out of mankinde as vessells made vnto honour through Christ to bring them to eternall saluation Wherevppon they who are indowed with so excellent benefit of God are called according to his purpose and that by his spirit working in a fitt time But you Mai. Hoo. seeme to vs to affirme contrarie when you say If anie man doubt how God should accept such prayers in case they be opposite to his will or not graunt them if they be according to that him selfe willeth Our aunswer is that such sutes God accepteth in that they are conformable to his generall inclination which is that all men might be saued yet alwayes he graunteth them not for so much as there is in God a more priuate occasioned will which determineth the contrarie Heere we begge your ayde to make manifest vnto vs howe God eternallie predestinateth by a constant decree them whom he calleth and saueth as our Church professeth and yet hath as you say a generall inclination that all men might be saued Whether he foresaw not something that occasioned his will otherwise so that he elected not all but onely them whom he calleth and saueth or that of his generall inclination he elected all men but some more privatelie occasioned him in time to alter his will and to refuse them or that some men gaue God occasiō that he saueth them though he neuer decreed it before the foundations of the world What meant the blessed Apostle where he sayeth Whom he predestinated them also he called and whom he called them also he iustified c. Is this to bee vnderstoode of a constant decree as we say or of an inclination Hee sayeth God worketh all thinges after the counsell of his owne will Is this to be vnderstood that vpon occasion sometimes hee either altereth his counsell or decreeth something which hee had not thought vpon before Saint Iames saith that In God there is no variablenes nor shadowe of turning Is not this more then a variablenes or shadow of turning to incline one way and upon occasion to decree another Doe not these wordes of yours giue some place vnto chaunce and fortune Doe they not make GOD as a man not of an all-sufficient knowledge wisedome and counsell but inclinable some one way till by occasion he finde a more better way Where is that God you speake of in your first booke of whom and through whom and for whom are all things And where is that law by which he worketh which you there call aeternall and therefore can haue no shew or colour of mutabilitie Haue we not cause to feare that the wittie schoolemen haue seduced you and by their conceited distinctions made you forget That you are neither able nor worthie to open and looke into the booke of Gods law by which he guideth the worlde And yet you will say There is in God an occasioned will Good Mai. Hoo. helpe vs heere and shewe vs howe we may thinke that you incline not to the errour of poperie touching workes forseene and that you fauour our churches beleefe The Churche of Englande doeth confesse That the church of Christ is a companie of faithfull people among whom the pure worde of God is preached the Sacramentes rightlie administred according to Christes institution c. and that the church of Rome hath erred not onely in maners ceremonies but also in matters of faith Which by the Reverend Fathers of our Church is expounded thus Without Christ the church is no church neither hath anie right or claime without his promise nor anie promise without his worde The church of Rome being as it is now vtterlie voyd of Gods word is as a lanterne without light We haue departed from that church which they haue made a denne of theeues and in which they haue left nothing sound or like to a church which thē selues did cōfesse to haue erred in manie things euen as Lot in olde time out of Sodom or Abraham out of Chaldea c. The generall error and defection of the popish Sinagogue frō Christ his true Church foreshewed in the scriptures is now manifest to the world by dissention from Christ and his holy Apostles doctrine and from the doctrine of the churches by the Apostles foūded And for this cause they call the heresie of that Romish church Apostasia Romanensium ab Ecclesia The Apostasie of the Romish rabble frō the church And they cal the Pope Apostatam Antichristum an Apostata Antichrist And binde vp in one bundle Idolaters superstitious persons papistes and Atheistes constantlie affirming that among English christians no other thing is ment by the name of papistes then heretickes and traytours Antichristians and Apostataes enemies to God their Prince and their countrie Now we finde in you these peremptorie affirmations With Rome we dare not cōmunicate concerning sundrie her grosse grieuous abhominations yet touching those maine partes of christian trueth wherein they constantlie still persist we gladlie acknowledge them to be of the familie of Iesus Christ. And a little before We hope that to reforme our selues if at anie time we haue done amisse is not to seuer our selues from the church wee were of before In the church we were and we are so still And in another place you would haue men To acknowledge that it is due to the church of Rome to be held reputed a part of the house of God and a limme of the visible church of Christ. And your principall reason seemeth to be because you say That whiche separateth vtterlie That which cutteth off cleane from the visible church of Christ is plaine Apostasie direct deniall vtter reiection of the whole christian faith as farre as the sonne is professedly different from infidelitie Heere you seeme vnto vs to come foorth as an other Elias to bring againe the people vnto the God of their Fathers They say that the church of Rome hath erred not onely in manners but also in matters of fayth You you call thē backe and say Sundrie grosse and grieuous abhominations They say that the church of Rome as it is nowe is vtterlie voyde of Gods word as a lanterne without light and that it is a denne of theeues in which they haue left nothing soūd or like a church but is like Sodom c. You call them backe and say That they haue mayne partes of christian trueth wherein they constantlie
and heereafter more aboundantlie their full ioy and felicitie ariseth because while they liue they are blessed of God and when they dye their workes follow them And yet againe you say I will not dispute whether truely it may not be sayde that poenitent both weeping and fasting are meanes to blott out sinne meanes whereby through Gods vnspeakeable and vndeserued mercie wee obtayne and procure to our selues pardon which attaynement vnto anie gracious benefite by him bestowed the phrase of antiquitie vseth to expresse by the name of merite Heere wee desire to bee resolued how these your assertions can stande with the doctrine and beleef of the church of England Fayth only iustifieth To which the holy Scripture accordeth saying If there had bene a lawe that could haue giuen life surelie righteousnes had bene by the law but the scripture hath concluded all vnder sinne that the promise by the fayth of Jesus Christ might be giuen to them that beleeue And againe David declareth the blessednes of the man vnto whom God imputeth righteousnes without workes For if from sound and sincere virtues as you say full ioy and felicitie ariseth and that we all of necessitie stande bounde vnto all partes of morall duetie in regarde of life to come and God requireth more at the handes of men vnto happines then such a naked beleefe as Christ calleth the worke of God alas what shal we poore finful wretches doe who can haue no confidence in the flesh being farre from those sounde and sincere virtues and from manie that we say not all partes of morall dutie in such measure as the holy iust good law of God doeth require them yea our verie righteous workes we finde to be stayned like a filthie cloth when we cōpare them vnto that absolute righteousnes which is indeed pure vnspotted before the eyes of God therefore we clayme nothing by any duetie we doe or can doe or anie virtue which wee finde in our selues but onelie by that naked faith which is the work of God in vs and maketh vs beleeue in him whom he hath sente and by his stripes onelie we hope to be healed Tell vs therefore by sounde and plaine demonstration what wee may trust to whether the English beleefe be imperfect without some necessarie additament whether you thinke that not faith alone but faith hope and loue be the formall cause of our righteousnes whether a man that hath faith can also doe all the works of the law and so make vp that which is wāting in his naked faith or that if he cannot but falleth into sinne seuen times yea sometimes into great sinnes whether his faith may not saue him Lastlie whether there bee not other sufficient causes to induce a christian to godlines honestie of life such as is the glorie of God our Father his great mercies in Christ his loue to vs example to others but that we must do it to merit or to make perfitt that which Christ hath done for vs. And lastlie shew vs that phrase of antiquitie whether it were in the Apostles time among the sounder christians or in what time immediatlie following or doe you not closelie make the popish doctrine of meritt by workes at the least to be tollerable to the disgrace of our English creede The church of England professeth that Good workes the frutes of faith and following the iustified cannot abide the seueritie of Gods iudgement and that The workes which are done before the grace of Christ are not onely not acceptable to God but also haue the nature of sinne You say The most certayne token of evident goodnes is If the generall perswasion of all men doe so account it And againe Only mans obseruation of the lawe of his nature is Righteousnes only mans transgression sinne Gods verie commaundements in some kinde as namelie his precepts comprehended in the law of nature may otherwise be knowen then onelie by scripture and that to doe them howsoeuer we know them must needes be acceptable in his sight Here we desire to be instructed howe the goodnes of these actions done by the light of nature are to be vnderstoode eyther simplie in them selues as nature onelie declareth and teacheth or as men following the light of nature iudge of them and so doe them if you answere onelie as nature teacheth without regarde of man doeing according to nature then can we not vnderstande your discourse which seemeth to vs to teach that by doeing such operations of goodnes as nature teacheth though he haue no further teachinge it is righteousnes and pleaseth God If you meane this second then I pray you in what sence can you call that righteousnes in man which our Church calleth sinne and doe you not establish the Romish doctrine of pura naturalia and workes of congruitie And if that be true which you say that men doing such workes be acceptable in Gods sight doe you not make the Church of England to holde an errour when they say they are not acceptable to God The church of England professeth that Works of supererogation cannot bee taught without arrogancie and wickednes And you say God approued much more then he commaundeth Open vnto vs then that seeing you seeme to teach that the order and course of all things supernaturall naturall sensible and reasonable is a diuine lawe and so by it he commaundeth accordinge to euerie kinde and that in the former articles you appeare to vs to scatter the prophane graines of poperie whether we may not iustlie iudge that in thus speaking you sow the seede of the doctrine whiche leadeth men to those arrogant workes of supererogation If not shew your own meaning and howe you esteeme of this Article of our beleefe The Church of England holdeth that Christ onely being the immaculate Lambe was without sinne and that we which are baptized and regenerated in him doe all offende in manie things You say Although we cannot bee free from all sinne collectiuelie in such sorte that no parte thereof shalbe found inherent in vs yet distributiuelie at the least all great and greeuous actuall offences as they offer themselues one by one both may and ought to be by all meanes auoyded So that in this sense to be preserued from all sinne is not impossible Heere we demaunde to be informed that if all offende in manie things and to say otherwise be a lye as our English creede affirmeth how your saying can be true that it is possible to avoyde all great and greeuous sinnes And what manie things they bee whereof the scripture speaketh Whether it meaneth not actual offences great and greeuous but that some may be excepted in regard of great sinnes or whether you meane that it is possible for all christians to be preserued from all great sinnes and if so why should it not bee as possible from all small offences and if from small and great why doe
the assenting of the people with no lesse alacritie of minde then cities vnable to holde outlonger Are these anie other but bitter skornes and despitefull fictions And to omitt many things because this is a personall cause we doe most hartilie begge at your handes to aunswere vs truelie and faithfullie whether you thinke Maister Calvin to haue bene an honest truehearted christian fearing God and not an imposter and a deceaver of the people or at the least you would haue men so to esteeme of him For howe can wee otherwise coniecture in that you blame him more for the countenancing of discipline beeing established then for establishing of it affirming with no small incitements of cunning insinuations that because hee by wisedome and not by the word of God saw that discipline requisite for that people hee imployed all his witt by sifting the very vtmost sentence and sillable of holy Scripture to confirme the same and not to omit the leaste occasion in all his writinges following of extolling the vse and singular necessitie thereof If wee may thus iudge of his faithfulnesse in promoting of discipline what may wee suspect of his sincere dealing in the doctrine About rites as the ministring with common bread you acknowledge that he would not stande with the Church to make trouble for a thinge indifferent and why if he were a good man should we thinke that hee would professe it to bee trayterous cowardlines not to dye a hundred times rather then to suffer that to bee wickedly borne downe which hee very well knew to bee taken out of the word of God Can you so farre make manifest eyther by good and iust presumptions or by playne and true storie his deepe hipocrisie and arrogant pride that euen against his owne conscience hee woulde so earnestly striue and trouble the whole Church to maintaine a deuise of his owne Wee pray you therefore to shewe vs sincerelie whether such insinuations bee charitable and whether if you bee a friend to the Gospell you make not a greater rent in Gods Church by such arguments then if you medled not at all in the matter but left it to men of more stayde and sounde discretion and of a more charitable and peaceable spirite For if such bolde and bare affirmations may goe for payment why may wee not as well heare and beleeue Maister Harding which calles all the whole and pure doctrine beleeued and professed in England A wicked new deuise of Geneva We desire you therfore in the name of our Lorde Iesus Christ who shall iudge all men at his cōming and make manifest the intents thoughts of the heart to shew vnto vs without all artificiall glozing whether all this your treatise of Calvin be not polished armour and a sharper rasor prepared for the vse and helpe of the enemies of the Gospell and that it may not rather bee called a preiudiciall commentarie and a Popish paraphrase then a storie true plaine and without partialitie and that men haue not iust cause to thinke the better of Maister Calvin and the cause of discipline when they see so litle plaine and faithfull dealing in your writing Reade therefore his preface before his comment on the Psalmes and Beza his storie of his life and the French or any other stories or monuments of faithfull honest Christians and then aunswere faithfully the trueth and shewe your honest meaning Our reverend Fathers converting their studies frō schoole authors vnto the holy scriptures and causing others to do the like brought many to be well seene in divinite and themselues and others well affected in Religion and therefore constantlie affirme that The heauenly doctrine of our Sauiour Christ was so buried in the darkenesse of schoole-learning that no man tasted the sweetnes of it which to be true that worthy man Martin Luther through Gods goodnes to his Church finding by great experience in him selfe and others is bolde to say Theologia illa scholastica exulem nobis fecit veram sincer am theologiam That schoole diuinitie hath banished from vs the true sincere divinitie And againe Totus Aristoteles ad Theologiam est tenebra ad lucem All Aristotle vnto divinitie is darkenes vnto light Now in all your bookes although we finde manie good things many truethes and fine pointes bravelie handled yet in all your discourse for the most parte Aristotle the patriarch of Philosophers with divers other humane writers and the ingenuous schoolemen almost in all pointes haue some finger Reason is highlie sett vp against holie scripture and reading against preaching the church of Rome favourablie admitted to bee of the house of God Calvin with the reformed churches full of faults most of all they which indeuoured to be most removed from conformitie with the church of Rome Almost all the principall pointes of our English creede greatlie shaken and contradicted If you doe not sincerelie plainelie and truelie aunswere all these our necessarie doubtes and demandes what shall we haue cause to thinke of these your tedious and laborious writinges Shall wee doe you wronge to suspect you as a privie and subtill enemie to the whole state of the Englishe Church and that would haue men to deeme her Maiestie to haue done ill in abolishing the Romish religion and banishing the Popes authoritie and that you would bee glad to see the backesliding of all reformed churches to bee made conformable to that wicked synagogue of Rome and shame and reproche to all faithfull Ministers whom GOD hath raysed vp to reveale and beate downe Antichrist and that you esteeme the preaching and writing of all the Reverend Fathers of our Church and the bookes of holy scripture to bee at the least of no greater moment then Aristotle and the Schoolemen Or else doe you meane to bring in a confusion of all thinges to reconcile heauen and earth and to make all religions equall Will you bring vs to Atheisme or to Poperie or to prepare a plott for an Interim that our streetes may runne with blood when all religious shalbee tollerated and one shall bearde and provoke another Are there not examples sufficient of vnspeakeable massacres abroade vnlesse wee should fett the same home to our countrie reioycing vnder the blessed vnitie of the Gospell of peace Thinke you that the longe experience of Gods protection in these golden dayes of quiet concorde the religious and peaceable heart of our deare soueraigne Ladie and Queene ELIZABETH for whose ioyful preservation all good and christian minded English men doe vnceasantlie pray and the thousandes of faithfull subiectes who haue learned Christ vnder the shadowe of her most happie and honorable reigne would euer giue you thankes for such great service or euer agree vnto such abhominations if they should once beginne to espie such stratagemicall operations to appeare in their effectes and to shewe them selues directlie and openlie We beseech you therefore in the Name of IESVS Christ and as you will aunswere