my iudgement ye speake reason but howe shall I knowe that you speke law For I here somtime in other cases that lawe reason diffre good reason is nat alwaye called lawe THE LAVYERE You say in some parte well For in dede all reason is nat lawe but this you may be sure of that contrary to al reason is no lawe tho men somtyme be otherwyse borne in hande And in this case conformably to reason as I haue begonne to shewe you hit was prouyded and ordeyned in dyuers counsels that none shulde be called out of the prouince Authorite of counsels Whiche counsels are ought to be taken for lawes establisshed by the assent of all christen men whiche muste stande and take effect THE DIVINE Ye name the counsell of Nyce and other also Nowe I pray you let vs here howe they speake herein that we may be the more sure THE LAVYER. First the Nycene counsell sayeth thus The Nycene counsell ca. vi The olde and antycke custome let hit be kepte thorowout Egypt Lyby Penthapoly so that the bisshoppe of Alexandre haue the power of them for there is a lyke custome of the citye of Rome Lykewise at Anteoche also other prouincyes let theyr customes and priuileges be kepte within theyr churches Looke this be kepte Cap. v. that they which be excommunicate of theyr bisshoppes of none other be receyued to communion Forsothe the power or confirmation thorowe euery Prouince shall perteyne to the Metropolitane Cap. iiii By this it may well appere that there is or ought to be a speciall iurisdiction or power within euery prouince in ecclesiasticall obseruatioÌ„s decidinge of causes But that this may be so moche the more playne you shall here what ysidoure sayeth to this purpose in the preface of the boke of counsels Isidorus in praefa Hit is manifeste saieth he there that suche thinges whiche chanceth thorowout euery prouince that the Sene or counsel of the same prouince must ordre and dispense them as it is playne to haue ben decreed and ordeyned by the Nicene counsell It is redde also saieth he in an epistle of pope Innocence in this wise Epistola Innocentij If any triall of cause besynes or contenty on arise amonge clerkes and lay men or betwixte clerkes of hyer or lower degre what so euer they be it pleased and hathe bene ordeyned that accordynge to the Nycene counsell all the bysshoppes of the same prouince be gathered to gether and so the iudgement of the cause to be fynisshed haue his full ende Thus you see playne what is the mynde of Nicene counsell herein euen so as we haue broughte hit in for THE DIVINE But syre syn that Isidoure sayeth that there be mo chaptres of the Nycene counsell than these whiche we haue and be expressed communely in the boke of the which he saith also that this is one howe is it that you haue brouÌ„ght vs in here whiche is plainly conteyned there to confirme this purpose THE LAVYER. That haue I done truely bicause it maketh moche as semeth me and I haue affirmed no more than may well be take of it Nowe yf it seme nat so playne to you and other for this purpose by that yet whiche is added of Innocence and Isidoure it may well and fully appere that this our purpose and position is plainely conteyned emong the chapiters of the Nycene couÌ„sell if it ware hooly had whether that be it or parte of it or no. The counsell Affricane to pope Boniface moche maketh for the same Yet to satisfie you and all other the more herein you shall here howe this is also proued and confirmed by the great counsell of Constantinople wherin it is written thus Conci constantinopolianum It is manifeste and playne that thorowout al and euery prouince the prouinciall Sene or counsell ought to administre and gouerne al thinges there accordynge to that is diffined by Nycene counsell Can you or any other thynke but that this is a sufficient profe that this is the verye decree of Nycene counsell excepte you wyll nedes pretende ignoraunce other elles peruersely denye bothe these authors and counselles generall More ouer the couÌ„sell Constantinopolitane agreeth here vnto where it sayeth thus Accordynge to the canons the bysshoppe of Alexandre lette hym gyde onely those thynges the whiche be within Egypte The bysshoppes of the orient lette them gouerne onely the orient c. But if it chaunce them to be called out of theyr administration lette them nat go for other ordinaunces to be made or for other dispensations ecclesiasticall but as is tofore rehersed in euery prouince the prouincyall Sene muste ordre and gouerne all thynges whiche be as it is there vnderstande mere spirytuall Wherevnto sayeth the historye Tripertyte Historia tripartita li. 3. ca. 7. that the fathers in the counselle of Constantinople defyned that if any cause arose within any prouynce hit shulde be fynysshed by the counsell of the same prouynce Conci Calcedonense The Calcedonense counsell draweth nere after the same where it determineth that a cause shulde begynne afore the owne bysshoppe and frome hym to the counsell of the prouynce The same counsell decreed that according to the fathers rules twise in the yere through out euery prouynce the bysshoppes shulde come to gether where euery thynge that came amonge them shulde haue his due correction and ordre Farthermore the epistle whiche the Affricane counsell sente to pope Celestine Epistola coÌ„ci Affricani ad CelestinuÌ„ papam sheweth well this pourpose and witnesseth also the Nicene decree where thus it is written The Nycene decrees most plainly hath committed bothe clerkes of lower degree and also bisshoppes to their owne primates For they moste wysely ye and iustly perceyued that all matters what so euer they were oughte to be finisshed ended where they were begonne They vnderstode full well that the grace of god wyll fayle no prouynce by the whiche the right and equite may well and wysely be sene of the prestes of Christe and mooste fastly and constantly holden and fulfylled of them Specially bycause it is gyuen and grauÌ„ted to euery man thaâ— if he be greued with the sentence of 〈◊〉 iudges to appele to the couÌ„sell of hiâ—â—â—ouince other els to the vniuersal coâ—â—â—ell Whiche laufully can not be denyed but is approued by these wordes folowinge in the sayde counsaile Except that there be any man whiche beleueth that our lorde god wyll rather inspire rightuous iugement into a particuler person than to a great nombre of vertuous and wel disposed ê‘sons gathered to gethers in counsaile by his spirite and ordenance For how can the iugementes of be yonde the see be firme stable vnto the whiche those persons that be necessari can not be brought either bicause of age or for many other impedimeÌ„tes And as for that any Legates shulde be sente as from thy holynes side we fynde it not ordeined
For the cause why I speke it is for the great weightye cause of christendome concernynge the kynges seperation fro the quene It is tossed and tourned ouer the hye mountaynes laboured and vexed at Rome from iudge to iudge The dangerous and vnmete handelynge of our soueraygnie rightful cause without certayne ende or effecte beinge very perillous for his hyghnesse and moche more daungerous if god helpe not for vs his poore and louinge subiectes Whiche if it had ben ordeined in the right and due cours that is to saye within the realme and so by the metropolitane examined and discussed That the cause ought to be ordred within this realme as lawe reason wolde it shulde haue ben there had ensued in this ryght way or this tyme an honorable ende and purpose to the great welthe of this realme and quietnes of christendome The lettars wherof what so euer they be me thinketh ought to be detested of al good englysshe people and subiectes THE DIVINE One of the chiefe lettars is and hathe be the lawyers opinion whiche wolde attribute to the pope the heed of theyr lawe al maner of power Howe some lawyers to moche attrybute vnto the pope wherby beinge well descante as they can well ynoughe at lengthe shall be no lawe but onely his wyll For and if he myght dispence with goddes lawe and all other and ordren them as he wyll as lawyers say that he may than what foly were it to obserue goddis lawe or any other but only inuestigate and serche to knowe the popes wyll in euery thynge and that to folowe accordyngly whiche ones atteyned were the lawyers hoole glory For who shulde be sette by thanne but onely lawyers bycause they extolle his authorytie so hye THE LAVYERE you enserch and folowe the frenche prouerbe to moche THE DIVINE Whiche is that THE LAVYER. Who sercheth fyndeth Qui serche troue For surely if without affection we shulde speke we lawyeres attribute to moche authoritie both to our maister to our selfes also THE DIVINE I haue harde verely fewe of your secte so plainely confesse the truthe Neuerthelesse it is to my great comforte to remēbre that it is my fortune to mete with so syncere a man beinge as I trust so entierly my frende whiche is dedicate to truthe and not to professyon THE LAVYER. I wotte what I shulde do but I wotte nere what frailtie wyll lette me do THE DIVINE If wyll be purely good the olde prouerbe shall folowe Nihil difficile uolenti God wyll ayde the wel willer alway THE LAVYER. That beinge true and bycause you haue some thynge touched vs lawyers you gyue me boldnesse farthermore to commune with you and aske of you if dyuines be nat partly to blame as well as we that this great cause goeth no better forwarde THE DIVINE All I can nat excuse For some of vs be as heedy as you The truthe of god with out worldly respectes to be regarded and yet our lernynge leadeth vs nat to it as youres dothe you For we shulde onely regarde the maker of all lawes and the mere truthe and nat vanities of this worlde nor eke affections THE LAVYER. Ye saye wel frende That wolde to our lorde the lerned men of the worlde moste specially of this realme wolde folowe this lesson and vse it in dede For as I perceyue here some of them folowe more affections and respectes than goddes worde onely and truthe THE DIVINE Who taught you I praye you to hytte so truely the nayle on the heed I thynke in dede that if worldlynesse were nat loked for there wolde mo agree to the truthe than hytherto hath though there be a meruaylous great nombre that hath agreed ther to al redy in dede THE LAVYERE That worldly respectes maye happe to fayle them that trusteth therto where be they than Me thinketh farthermore a great foly in them to auenture vpon so sklendre a groūde both soule and body THE DIVINE Truthe ye say wher of is great pitie that lerned men specially regarde not more the worlde to come than the worlde present and that they vnite not them selfe in opinion Great pitie that all lerned men be nat of one opiniō in this one truthe Whiche thing sheweth a great lacke of grace and an ouermoche addiction to pryuate appetites mixed with to moche heedynesse and obstinacy And yet there is but one truth in this matter THE LAVYER. I meruayle than why many thus call this matter disputable seinge that there is but one truthe therein and why that truthe is not imbraced and opēly shewed by all lerned men THE DIVINE As to the fyrst though some call it so I se no reason why they shulde saye so That this cause is nat disputable as a thing of doubte excepte they wolde say that nothing is taken for truthe in this worlde For I do esteme that there be fewe articles of our faythe the whiche be approued by mo autenticke authorities mo prouable ye inuincible reasons by moo laudable customes and vsages than this cause is on the kinges syde And syns it is so me thynketh hit is nat disputable as a doubte in lawe As to the seconde I feare me that lacke of executynge in dede of that whiche we professe by mouthe is a great lacke there vnto For our lyues and religyon be many tymes farre a sondre I praye our lorde amende hit whanne hit shall be his pleasure But as to the fyrste bycause I thynke hit nat disputable I shall declare you somme reasons whiche do perswade me to thynke so THE LAVYER. Mary I pray you lette vs here mo For one I haue herde al redy whiche me thynketh very vehement If the remenant folowe I shall for my parte be meruailously satisfyed THE DIVINE Fyrste it is to vnderstande that accordynge to the sayenge of the prophet Dauyd Verbum dn̄i manet in aeternū Spal The worde of our lorde god is mooste sure and euer abydeth Syns that so is infallible it must nedes folowe that it whiche he vtterly forbyddeth in the negatiue may no wyse be attempted Nullus acci piat uxorem fratris sui et nō licet tibi habere uxo rem fratris Thanne in this case that is to saye A man ought nat to mary his brothers wyfe It is in the Negatyue forbodden in the Leuityke bothe .xviij. and .xx. chapitres And therfore in no wyse hit is to be attempted specially with vs that be chrysten people A mā to mary his brothers wyfe is forbidden bi the lawes of god THE LAVYERE I thynke this hardde to be assoyled neuerthe lesse the lawe Deuteronomyke semeth to assoyle the same THE DIVINE Nay surely if hit be well vnderstande For in the begynnynge that lawe semeth to propoune and lymytte certayne poyntes and circumstaunces without the whiche that lawe ware no lawe as playnely by the texte hit selfe it dothe manifestly appere Playne circumstāces profes that the litteral sence
of the Deuteronomy law was to the Iues onely That is to saye fyrste as whanne they dwelled together the seconde whan he dyed without issue the thyrde to suscytate the brothers sede the .iiij. that his fyrste sonne shulde be called by his brothers name the fyfte cause and grounde of that lawe was that the name within the Tryebe shulde nat be forgotten nor abrogate in Israell moste speciallye the trybe of Iudas wherof it was prophecyed that our lorde shulde come of Neuerthelesse to the intent that ye myghte well perceyue that this lawe was trulyer to be obserued in the mysticall sense than in the litterall and that mooste specially nowe by vs christen men the smalnes of the payne whiche foloweth it declareth it full well as by the text folowynge you may well perceyue And yet it is left also to the arbitrement of him that succedeth to take or refuse her at his pleasure and will sufferynge a ryght small and easy punisshement as tofore whiche is lymytte in the aforesayd chapitre And to shewe that it shuld nat be but in the misticall sense obserued by vs christen men Onely the mistical seÌ„ce of the Deuteronomye lawe is for christen men nat litterally saynt Austen sayeth thus Euery preacher of the worde of god is bounde so to laboure in the gospell that he styre vp sede to his brother departed that is to Christ whiche dyed for vs and the sede so suscytate must haue the name of him deê‘ted that is of Christ Whervpon we be called Christians So therfore we plainly be nat bouÌ„de to kepe and fulfylle this lawe carnally as by bodely generation after the aforesayde significacion and takynge of it but spiritually in a truthe fulfylled Holy Isidoure in the selfe same maner sayth as doth saynt Austen Saynte Ambrose also sayeth that the sentence hereof is taken mystically And as for any example in whom this were fulfylled litterally there hath ben none shewed as he affirmeth Nowe me thynketh therfore though we make the moste we can of it this lawe of Deuteronomi was but a speciall lawe gyuen onely to the Iues as ye may well perceyue by the aforesayd circumstances in the texte it selfe seruynge onely for those expressed intentes whyche amonge vs christen men nother hathe nor may be in any wise obserued as taken of that lawe but be clerely abrogate anulled and in no wyse to be vsed For who nowe a dayes thinketh him selfe bounde to suscitate his brothers sede or to haue his sonne called by his brothers name Or who thinketh him selfe bounden nowe to the groundsell and very foundacion of this lawe of Deuteronomy Ipsa basis et fundamentuÌ„ Deut. legis whyche is here in this chapitre As to contynewe the inherytaunces and to supporte the names of the trybes in Israell onely And that this is the full intente and grounde of this lawe it may be gathered very welle by the very texte of the same lawe Quando fratres habitauerint simul et unus ex eis absque liberis morruus fuerit Deute 25. where it sayeth Whan brotherne dwelle together and one of them dyeth withoute yssue or chylderne Whiche makethe a playne argumente and sure proffe that excepte he dyed withoute yssue his wyfe shulde in no wyse marye the other Thanne to haue yssue for suscitacion of sede and continuaunce of the brothers name in Israell as it well appereth is the cause of this lawe Whiche also maketh it appere euidently that this lawe is merely ceremoniall as that is institute for certeyne people onely for certeyne place and certeyne tyme. This Deuterono lawe ceremoniall whyche is nowe clene abrogate For I am sure no man wyll saye that we oughte to marye for that intente nowe a dayes These thynges be so euident and manifest that me thinketh with out a man wyl not se he must nedes perceyue that this lawe of Deuteronomye wherof we speke nowe was onely made for the Iewes and that we christen men be clerely 〈…〉 seruitude and bondage of the 〈…〉 of the ceremonyes of that 〈◊〉 excepte that he wyll haue Christ 〈…〉 fore to comme agayne and 〈…〉 vs christen men to playe the 〈◊〉 Iewes Besyde these profes vppon the very texte the mooste parte of the auncient authors also do declare this lawe of the Deuteronomye to be abolytte And that excepte bothe circumstaunces in euery parte and also the grounde were obserued it coulde neuer haue serued For they be so mixed together in precepte that the one can not well stande without the other and duely be kepte as it oughte to be Wherfore this Deuteronomyke lawe takethe nothynge awaye my formare argumente nor yet assoyleth any parte therof THE LAVYERE By the feyth I owe to god you speke felly THE DIVINE Naye I coulde speake moche more yet in declarynge of that lawe were it not that I promysed you to shewe you the reasonnes why that this matter is not disputable THE LAVIERE I praye you syns we be entred in to this matter lette vs haue more of it to the intent we may trie our owne conscience the better in it THE DIVINE Syns you nedes wyll haue me coughe out all I wyl tell you more of my mynde The Deuteronomie lawe in this case coulde ylle quadrate or agree with the Leuiticall except the intent and circumstaunces therof be well considered as tofore And also that this terme brother in that place be well vnderstaÌ„de and coÌ„sydered Note the takyng of this worde brother THE LAVIERE Why I pray you is there more mistery of that worde in the Deuteronomy than in the Leuitike THE DIVINE Ye forsoth for in the Leuitike it can nor may be takeÌ„ for other than for the very brother the texte beinge iudge it selfe But by the Deuteronomike as many taketh it is ment the nexte of the bloode after the degrees ê“hibite though he be but kynsmaÌ„ And so it might well stande with the Leuiticall amongest the Iewes The whiche interpretacion is well approued also by the playne history of Ruth But these thinges be so hylye entreted in many other workes and treties that it were but a losse of 〈…〉 any more of it wherfore 〈◊〉 nowe to retourne to my formarâ— purpose to declare you the reste of my reasons THE LAVYERE These in dede haue ben more entreated on than the matter which you haue propouned Wherefore syns it is your plesure I pray you go forth withall Yet I ensure you I haue nat harde so profouÌ„dely that other matter declared in my lyfe for so short a briefe declaration THE DIVI I am glad though without my desert that this my declaration pleaseth you so well And nowe I wyll go forth with the rest of my minde Firste I esteme the worde of our lorde god aboue all thynges Verbum dei nec fallit nec fallitur The prohibition Leuitical general for al peple NoÌ„ facietis ex oiÌ„bus abhominationibê° istis taÌ„ indigena qÌ„ colonus qui peregrinat apud uos
to be made vpon the premisses or suche as perteyne vnto thē excepte he amende this faute ought to be putte to due penance and condingly punysshed with recourse if nede shall be to other helpes of the lawes THE DIVINE Trewely if this be thus as here you haue well induced as semeth me hit can nat be auoyded but that the Pope oughte to conforme hym selfe to the canons and decrees of counsels and not to dispence agaynst them and so moche the lesse he may dispēce with the law of god THE LAVYER. That can no wyse be denyed For betwene goddes lawe mans sayth Innocence of whom we spake before amonge other lawiers there is so great a difference No dispensation agaynst the lawe of god that against the lawe of god may neuer be dispensed about mannes lawes may be had dispensation sometyme as necessite and vtilite shall require THE DIVINE Well sayde But ye lawiers many times speke so erenestly for bothe partes and alledge your glosees so thycke that men vnlerned in that facultie can not telle whome to truste And welle I wotte that in this poynt some lawyers say nay For if they agreed all the matter shulde haue ben or this tyme done THE LAVYERE Truely this as ye say chaunceth ofte tymes amonge vs lawyers in dede But not in that we be lawyers but in that we be men fascioninge our knowlege and opinion in lawe as it may serue best for our purpose And he is called but a slendre aduocate or proctour in lawe that of one lawe texte or other can nat shape argumentes fytte for his clyentes part Herein is no defaut in the lawe but in the abusers of the lawe THE DIVINE Marye of them that vse them selfe thus scripture sayeth in dede Lacerata est lex et non peruenit ad finem iudicium Habacuc 1. a. The lawe is lacerate and fynal iudgement can nat be had laufully So that this sayeng whiche foloweth also be it neuer so generall of it selfe may well most specially be applyed to them to Ois homo mēdax spal C.xv. Euery man is full of lyenge But howe shall I trust you than that you speake lawe to me in this great cause rather than them that speake on the other syde THE LAVYERE The authorite of generall councels and the very popes owne confessions suffiseth to that Very naturall reason also shall confirme that my sayenge to be trewe For it is true that lyke as euery priuate persone in his case hath dayly his doubt decyded by the iudges of his countrey Apte comparison and in the cōmon lawe of the realme the matter is tryed by the iury of that countrey and in the popes lawe no man shall be called two dayes iourney out of his countrey euen so haue princes in tymes paste accordinge thervnto obteyned sentences in lyke case And if you wyll take the peyne to loke ouer and fully to considre the generall counsels whiche I tofore rehersed vnto you ye shal than finde that not onely it myght but also that it ought so to be And reason as I haue shewed is herevnto conformable that the cause shulde rather be harde and discussed where it may be knowen playnly euery poynt duely enserched examined than where all parties be ignorant in the matter as at Rome THE DIVINE Why than doeth the poope wrēge to enterprise to knowe af the matter at Rome THE LAVYERE So saye the generall counsels so doth diuers holy popes confesse so sayth the vniuersite of Parise so saythe the vniuersite of Orleance so saith a great nombre of clerkes in Italy so saith all that be not ledde by affection to saye on the other syde THE DIVI You shewe so many counsels popes assentes great authorities also so playne definitions of so noble vniuersites which affirme your sayeng that no man can but thinke it true that ye say Wherin certes as me thinketh the authoritie of the general coūsels and popes owne sayenges gyueth suche faith to the cause that it is vnreasonable to be denied specially considerynge and weyenge that also the vniuersities say and expresse the same Whiche of lykelyhode wolde not distayne their honour and reputacion in the worlde with theyr great blame rebuke iuste damnacion of god and the world ī swaruing fro the truth I thinke therfore surely that you say true and I meruayle moche that the pope agreeth not to that truthe THE LAVY As to that I can not say For it were an yll birde that wold defile his owne nest But neuerthelesse we se here a truth affirmed by many general counsels by many popes by many other authors and also by noble vniuersites by so many gret lerned men the same is neuer the more folowed but the contrarye therof executed right nat withstāding against our prince souerayne lorde Whiche pitieth myne hart al true subiectes I thinke within his realme Nat doutynge with goddes grace but that nother he nor we wyll suffre so preiudicial an iniurie to be inferred to this realme and so pernicious an exāple for all christendome THE DIVI That is surely so Wherfore I dout not god assistinge vs but that this his realme wyl rather sticke with hym in this his manifeste right accordynge to their duetie Our duetie and obediēce we owe to our prince than put their neckes vnder the yoke of the pope or his at pleasure lawes For god cōmandeth obediēce to the prince so doth he not to the iniuries of the pope In what the poope is not to be obeyed but willeth vs rather to withstāde them as by diuers textes and holy mens examples it shal here after appere God sayth saint Bernarde cōmandeth vs to do that is good Bernardus to leue that is yl Now if that man whom he hath gyuen p̄eminence to sette him aboue vs wolde thinke to the contrarie cause vs other to leaue that is good or to cleue to that is yll forbidden of god there his commandement is boldly to be refused For it is farre out of ordre to breke thyn obediēce thou owest to god for thyn obedience towarde man Wherfore saith saint Augustine August If he that is in power aboue the as to whom thou owest thyn obedience commande the to do any thynge that thou oughtest nat to do there contemne and refuse his power If he byd the do one thynge and god an other obeye god contempnynge hym If that man byddeth god forbydde shall I sayeth saynt Bernarde here man and nat here and obeye god Bernardus Therfore as sayeth holy Basile if we be bidde of any man to do that is contrarye to the commaundementes of Christe Basilius ma. there is hye tyme for vs to say we be bounde more to obeye god thanne men I boldely do affyrme sayethe blessed Symon de Cassia that the vicare of Christe is nat exempte from the preceptes of the lawe of god Simon de Cassia nother can exempt any
precedynge or folowynge the acte as age of the two parties conueniente and lykely there vnto with conuersation in bedde and other place at libertie for that acte Wherevpon the lawe concludethe for a truthe the acte of copulation to haue ensued so in other cases of lyke fashion THE DIVI Why syr if this be thus as ye saye than shall it lytell auayle the quene to alledge That the quenes allegynge to the cōtrary nothyng auayleth that she was nat knowen by prince Arthur For sure I am ther be witnesse as I haue harde say of the noblest mē of this realme that knew prince Arthure the quene at the tyme of their mariage and knewe them bothe to be of competent age feete apte prone to that naturall acte bedded to gether at sondrye tymes lyuynge at libertie in one house beynge no lette or impediment in lawe why they shulde nat but many prouocations of nature why they shulde accomplysshe their natural desire in that be halfe THE LAVYER. I thynke the quene wyll neuer erenestly alledge that matter which hath nat only no probabilite of truth but also that beinge proued whiche you speke of that is to say the mariage liuinge beddinge and cōuersation together of her and prince Arthure a plaine conclusion to the cōtrarie THE DIVINE There be many mo specialtes than these that go nere the matter For some men of great house say and as I am enfourmed depose vpon theyr othe that prince Arthur dyd report hym selfe vnto them Prince Arthurs owne reportes that he had carnally knowen her And that at diuers tymes to some at one tyme to some at a nother so that his sayenges were many times reiterate Whyche me thynketh gyuethe moche greatter faythe in so moche that it is not to be thought that al these tymes he shulde speke for ostentacion and bostynge of hym selfe onely For at some tyme of these it doth appere by attestacion of credible folkes wherof some were his seruātes nere about him at that tyme that he spake it for mere necessite demaundynge and desyrynge drinke incontinently vpon his great labours in the mornynge very erely to quenche his thyrste answerynge whan the question was asked hym why sir and be ye nowe so drye Mary if thou haddeste bene as osten in Spayne this nyghte as I haue bene I thynke verely thou woldest haue ben moche dryar Another thinge there is more whiche hath a meruelous apperaunce in it to declare that she shulde be knowen by prince Arthure and that is this Incontinent after his dethe the name of a prince belonged to hym that is nowe our souerayne lorde and kynge excepte his brother had chyldren so without creation or any other solemnite streight waye so to be called therby Whiche if it shulde nat so haue folowed shulde haue ben a mere iniurye illated by his father to hym without some other meruaylous great consideration So it was his brother beinge dede vpon suspicion that she hadde ben with childe and beynge also certifyed by the princes counsell that they and she bothe thoughte the same 〈…〉 for what cause the name of prince was differred our 〈◊〉 the name of prince was differred from our souerayne lorde that nowe is by the space of a moneth more in whiche tyme it was likely the truth to be knowen And so me thinketh there can be no more vehemēt nor almost a playner trial of her to be knowen than this beinge with al well considered howe wel auisedly the noble king his fader dyd always procede in all his actes dedes Ye a thirde there is also wherby it can nat be denied but that this her ostētacion affirmation is nothinge true And that now is euidently proued by an instrumēt called a Brefe whiche she by her selfe or her proctour produced in publyke iudgement before the Legates in her defence bycause our soueraynes counsell founde fautes in the bulle whiche were sufficient in lawe as lawyers do affirme thoughe the pope might dispense as he may nat īdede to annihilate fordo the mariage bitwene the king and her For where one of the fautes whiche the kinges counsell foūde was that after the dethe of prince Arthur in suinge for dispensation the atteyned a bull wherof the suggestion was not true Beinge in one place as it was saide in the bull Forsan cognitam as who sayeth may fortune knowen Whiche maketh a doubte of that thynge whiche she knewe well ynoughe before And thereby it may well be coniectured that she feared to telle the trewthe lest that the pope perceyuynge that she had bene knowen by prince Arthoure wolde neuer haue dispensed with this lattre maryage Or elles in dede if she had nat be knowen she neded nat to haue putte in these termes at all And thereby emonges other thinges the kinges counselle thoughte that this bulle was subrepticious and noughte bycause the trewe meanynge of the supplycatyon was nat purely and trewely declaredde in the same She thanne fearynge that by this faulte and other whyche were founde in the sayde Bulle she shulde fayle of her purpose dydde accordynge as tofore is sayde in her defence exhybyte this brieffe thynkynge thereby to take away al these doubtis whiche were founde in the Bulle and specially that of Forsan cognitam But in this as scripture saith obscurati sunt oculi eorum Both her eies her coūsels were blynded For wher they went about to hele some smal soores they opened a great woūde in the Brefe confesse cognitam without Forsan which is to say that she was knowen without parauenture Howe the brefe which was purchased for fautes in the bul manyfestely sheweth that she was knowē by prince Arthur Whiche maketh as me thinketh to euident a profe that she shulde be knowen by prynce Arthure so plainly sheweth it that it can nat be denyed For nowe if ye marke it well it is confessed bothe by hym her though she liste to say nowe the contrary that in iugement THE LAVYER. I meruaile than that men wyl yet doubt whether it be true or no that the law approueth so for truth where these probations appereth so playne THE DIVINE I will tell you why Bycause her grace sayth her selfe that she was nat carnally knowen and she sayth that she knoweth it better than al the worlde beside THE LAVYERE It can not be denied but that she knoweth it best of folke nowe liuing But prince Arthur whan he lyued knewe vtterly as wel as her grace Who hauing no cause why at that tyme to say otherwise than the truth she nat denieng at that tyme that same said than the cōtrary of that the quene nowe alledgeth whan it maketh moste for her purpose so to say beinge wytnesse in her owne cause and partie for her owne defence without any matter to iustifye her so sayenge sauynge onely her sole suche allegacion One mans or womans sayenge singular be he or she of neuer suche dignite auctorite
prerogatiue or preeminence Howe the quenes sayeng can not proue by the law shal nat make faith in an other mans cause whiche nothynge apperteyneth to him Wherfore there can be no reason ne lawe to maynteyne that the quene in her owne cause shuld haue credite and be beleued or yet her sayeng regarded in that behalfe And assuredly to speke it is impossible by due and laufull profe to proue true this her sayenge by her selfe in dede at this houre seynge that she hath bene knowen syns And as for wordes it is to open in lawe that the husbandes attestatyon makynge for the mariage is to be preferred to the womans deniall in that case So that if there were no more but prince Arthurs owne sayenge the lawe willeth that credytte shulde be gyuen to him nat to her And if she wold go about to proue it by recordes it is to be cōsidered How vnlikely shulde be her recordis testimonye that they which she wolde nowe bring to testifi this her nat to be knowen must be of those which were here present with her Which were sent than purposely rather to testifi the cōtrary For it was at that tyme the thinge which her father mother bothe moost desired to here of succession of theyr two bodyes and to vnderstande that bitwene them was carnall copulatyon Whereby it may euidently appere what so euer they nowe saye that they came than rather to approue the contrary than that which she wolde bringe them to testifie nowe For who can thinke that they which brought the doughter of their kinge to be maried vnto the sonne and heyre of a king wolde than seke for wayes wherby they might after proue that she ware nat carnally knowen by him that they brought her for And I reken that nother she nor eke her witnesse can make in this matter any due proue admithable in lawe seyng also that one of the parties is deed who to make answere had as moche interest as she to denye it THE DIVI I knowe nat your lawe but me thinketh you speke reason that we shulde take for the truthe whiche is laufully approued for truethe what so euer the partie say to the contrary Consideryng that truthe as ye haue declared dependeth vpon the trewe approbacyon in the lawe and nat vpon the bare demonstration of the acte THE LAVIER You take it right And therfore if my father mother bothe wolde denye me to be their sonne I shall if I haue laudable testimonye proue the contrary al though they wil neuer so ernestly both defend mainteyne their denial alleagynge that they knowe the truthe better than all the worlde after as they do in dede But their knowlege helpeth nat where no fayth is to be gyuen to thē And the question is nat what they know but what is to be bileued None to be beleued in his owne cause A iuuene cupido credatur reddita uirgo And truly no man is to be beleuid in his owne matter And as one sayd may a man bileue that a mayden accōpanieng with a yonge mā of lust being no let thervnto shal returne as she was a mayden Meanyng beleue it who that wolde for he wolde nat Prince Arthurs and the quenes conuersation togyther in bed and house beinge both of lauful age with these other probations tofore rehersed so clerely setteth forthe the truthe of carnall knowledge that the quenes asseueration to the contrary nor yet her dissemblynge profes if she haue any can blemysshe the same in any vpright true or indifferent mans opinion Wherfore I meruel that other she or any that maketh pretense of loue towarde her wyll allege or cause to be alleged so mere an vnprouable excuse in so hie a cause The doinge wherof to my iugement hath greatly derogate bothe her their credite not onely in this case but in all other also THE DIVIN These thinges be so pythily spoken set forthe that they can not be auoyded Wherfore sins the truthe fauoreth our princis cause so moche lette vs his subiectes than not omyt nother our zele ne yet our obediēce to hym accordinge to our allegiance nor our duetie to god in assistinge the truthe Our office and duetie to god and our kynge as is the part and office of a true christen man For surely we oughte by our alleagiance to defende him and his doinges agaynste all maligners bothe in wordes dedes For againste maligners god hym selfe exhorteth vs by his prophete whan he sayeth Be not desirous to folowe the malignere Beware maligners Than syn we be forbydden to folowe them in general termes and generally cōmanded to auoyde them moche more he forbyddeth vs in that is agaynst our prince and soueraine Principi populi tui non maledices exo 22. \ In cogitatione tua regi ne detrahas Ec. 10. Alas what ingratitude ye and that vnnatural were in vs if we shulde other wise do Or howe coulde we wyl or desire of our prince that poynte of kyndnes as towarde vs our causes which we refuse vnto him warde Howe myght we desire of hym not to be lyght in creditte whan he hereth complaynte of vs whan we be so light to beleue all tales inuented ageynst hym his most rightuous intent Or howe can we be so bolde to desire his grace of his most hye goodnes fauour and to assist vs in our ryghtuous causes whan we do not frankely assiste hym ye offre vs to lyue and dye in this his iuste cause matter THE LAVYER. Me thynketh this matter toucheth vs as moche almoste as him Sauynge onely his conscience But as for the worlde moch more For in his time no man can interrupt him Our moste louing princis true endeuoure is moche more for vs than hym nor there is no besines in title But afterwarde if the ordre be not set bi him or that he dye it is harde to say howe many shal repent it Wherfore I thinke of both it is more requisite for vs than for him to haue this mattre at an honorable ende THE DIVINE But howe might that be THE LAVYER. Mary I thynke that the way might be founde well ynough if the hole heed body of the parliament wold set their wyttes and good wylles vnto it For no doubt but that it ought to be determyned within this realme as plainly ynough it appereth bifore THE DIVINE Surely you say well For me thynketh the succession of this realme ought nat to be ordered by forreins For if it shulde and we to accepte the same they were rulers and orderers of this realme An abusion intollerable and nat the king his parliament And than doutlesse this realme were as euyll in condition as sclaues of Turkes whiche I pray god defende it fro For seynge that there is nothyng to be determined but the faute of beynge knowen or nat knowen which I thynke is euidently ynough proued alredy there is no place so
shall occurre to my mynde Yet one thinge I muste knowe youre wyll in ere that I procede any farther THE LAVYERE What is that I beseche you THE DIVINE Mary syre this is hit whether you wyll that I shulde shewe you whatte the olde auncient doctours do saye or what the modernes whiche somewhat flattereth the popes authoritie sayeth other elles declare you myne opinion taken out of bothe whiche I truste shall nat be farre frome truthe THE LAVYERE The auncient doctours and many also of the modernes opinion hathe benne declared herin in many other bokes and warkes of whiche I haue sene some bothe of laten and englysshe But is there say you difference emongest other of their opinions THE DIVINE Ye forsothe for some of the modernes smake to moche of your lawe in wrestyng of scripture for auauncement of dignite whiche the olde fathers do clene forbydde and contempne and lykewise also dyuers other modernes Wherby you may well perceiue that there is some alteration emoÌ„ge them THE LAVYERE That is true But whiche thynke you do beste THE DIVINE They that do leste attribute arrogancy rule and dominion to the spiritualtie The pope can nat dispence with the lawe of god nature Quare nos traÌ„sgredimi ni praeceptuÌ„ dei propter traditiones uiÌ„as Ma. 15. Scriptura ê“phetica non est humanae intpretationis 2. Petri. 1. For sure hit wyll be at length els their vtter confusion hit is so abhominably at this day abused and presumed on But nowe to my matter The scripture sayeth these wordes why do you breke or transgresse the commandement of god for your owne traditions And also these wordes The prophetical and holy Scripture is not of mans interpretacion With this moreouer scripture must nedes stande vnlosed All these auncient authors also whiche here foloweth do say Non potest solui scriptura Ioan. 10. Augusti accordingly to holy scripture that the pope can nat dispence with other the lawe of god or nature Saynt Augusten besydes other places in the epistole whiche he wryteth Ad Glorium Eleusinum sheweth that he is vnder the general counsell Wherfore moch the more he must nedes be vnder the lawe of god Saynt Ambrose in his boke de Paradiso affirmeth the same Ambro. Bernardus Lykewise saint Bernarde bothe in his epistle Ad Adam mona chum and in his boke de dispensatione et prae ceptis Holy popes also that were in the olde tyme do confesse the same Fabianus papa Marcellinus papa Vrbanus papa Zozimus As Fabianus papa in his epistle Ad orientales Mercellinus papa in his epistole Ad orientales Also Vrbanus papa in 25. q. 1. Sunt quidam Zozimus papa in de statutis gentiuÌ„ Where he sayth that agaynst the statutes and decrees of fathers the see of Rome can nother make ne chaunge nothyng Moche lesse ayenst the scriptures and statutes of god Damasus Innocentius Damasus papa ad Aurelium ArchiepiscopuÌ„ â–ª Innocentius papa in ca. litteras Besyde these other auncient authors confirme the same as Basilius magnus in regula monachorum Basilius Beda Isidorus Beda in expositione epistolae Petri. Isidorus ca. Si is qui preest With these agreeth as in one also these lattre diuines Posteriores Theologi Alexandre de Halys Scotus Occham Richardus de media Villa Albertus Iacobus de Lauzanna Altissiodorensis Franciscus de Maronis Gerson Durandus Gabriel Biel Herueus Bernardus de Trilla Antoninus Florentinus Ioan. Lupus and many mo whiche do playnely affirme that no man canne proue that the poope maye dispense with other the lawe of nature or the lawe of god Wherfore hit foloweth well that this beynge the lawe of god as hit hath bene bothe well and playnely afore declared and proued as me thynketh hit is euidente hit is easye bothe to perceyue and beleue that syn it is thus grounded on the very lawe of god hit is also indispensable Nowe than more ouer seynge that this case is also determyned as well by auncient authours as by generall counsels ye and holy popes owne confessions and seyng also that all these doth agre both modernes and other with the full consent of the moste parte of all the Vniuersities lerned men at this houre within christendome that this case is indispensable me thinketh gretly that we ought this matter being so euidently opened declared clerely holy to beleue this and as true subiectes to stycke with our souerayne prince in this his iust doynge laudable act For as me semeth it is a sinful an vnnatural al demeinour of subiectes what synistre laboure so euer be made to the coÌ„trary to mysdeme their prince that in so waightie a cause he wolde be seducid and vse affections Whiche hytherto rayning the .xxiij. yere ouer vs and more hath shewed hym selfe in all his doinges but iust indifferent most vpryght And I for my parte The cause of the peoples blyndenesse do rather arrecte this blindnes of the people more to ignoranci with a litle to moche lightnes in credence to light folke the whiche goeth about to seduce them than to any other acte of vnnaturall duetie For I thynke verely that there was neuer prince amonge vs that euer was better beloued nor that hathe deserued more to be Wherfore nowe vsynge the sayinge of seynt Poule Hortamuruos 2. Corynth 6. I do exhort you in our lord god that you his subiectis do exonerat your selfes of al maner of grouÌ„des or occasioÌ„s that might brede any vnkyndnes in his hart toward you And also his maiestie you with al due reuerence so doynge to continue his well approued zeale and feruent loue alwayes hytherto shewed emonge you to the intent aforesayd whiche is that we may haue accordinge to Christes owne wordes one flocke and one heed THE LAVYERE On my faythe you haue satisfyed me both with great and many authorities and as me thinketh also with inuincible reasons I pray god myn answeres to your questions may satisfie you as well and with as moche truthe as youres hathe done me THE DIVINE I doubte nat but they shall For your intente as a man maye iudge and your lernyng also is of that integrite that otherwise than truth can nat succede so farre as the lawe can say Wherfore I pray you answere me firste to this question Might this cause be harde and ware hit a due course that hit shulde be harde within this realme as in the beginninge of this mattere me thoughte you sayde THE LAVYERE Syre I nat onely affirme that hit myghte be but also I vtterly protest That this cause oughte to be herd herewith in the realme determined that hit ought to be so For as it was ordeyned in the counsell of Nyce and lykewyse in other generall counsels of the world that euery cause shulde be decyded where it first beganne euen so this cause beinge fyrst begonne here in Englande shulde likewyse haue ben here in Englande determyned THE DIVINE In