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A10170 The other parte of Christian questions and answeares which is concerning the sacraments, writte[n] by Theodore Beza Vezelian: to which is added a large table of the same questions. Translated out of Latine into Englishe by Iohn Field.; Quaestionum et responsionum Christianarum libellus. Pars altera. English Bèze, Théodore de, 1519-1605.; Fielde, John, d. 1588. 1580 (1580) STC 2045; ESTC S109027 101,745 336

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much as the condition of times at the least is altered in this that now none that are of the yeeres of discretion are baptised and the inconueniences of those same olde Canons are euident ynough that those same Churches doe verie well which so take order for the vse of baptisme that neyther infantes as much as may be bee depriued of Baptisme not that their superstition be nourished which tye saluation vnto Baptisme neither if it bee possible that Baptisme bee separated from the dayly preaching of the woord 151. Question But doest thou thinke that nothing ought to be determined concerning the place Answeare Yea seeing all thinges must be doone in the Churche comely and in order And forasmuch as Baptisme is a parte of the mynisterie of the Gospell I thinke that one and the fame place is too bee vsed both for the woorde and Sacramentes so as Baptisme bee ministred in the publike congregation of the Churche and with common prayer neyther will I rashly admitte those I cannot tell what cases of necessitie that some alleadge to the contrary Question But what doest thou thinke concerning the rites themselues Answeare I thinke that we ought to stand too the woord of God Question But it seemeth that the woorde of God requireth a thorow dipping into the water Answeare I graunt that the name it selfe of baptisme being taken in the precise and straight signification doth declare no lesse neyther is it any maruayle that this was obserued in those of the yeeres of discretion especially in Iewrie and those same hotte countries in which it might be done without any danger of health But I thinke that wee must looke vnto the verie end of baptisme it selfe which it is plaine also that wee keepe in the simple sprinkling of water vpon the infants wet therewith like as sprinkling was sufficient in those same purifications of the law in which also our baptisme was shadowed neither ought we greatly to striue whether with litle or much water the whole body be dipped in or the head only sprinkled Question What thinkest thou of that same threefold dipping Answeare It appeareth out of Tertullian that this was then receiued against the vnitie of persons But howesoeuer it bee why may we not aswel vse one dipping alone that it may be signified that wee indeede are baptized into three persons as by the wordes of Baptisme it selfe is vnderstoode but yet notwithstanding into one God For it is as daungerous to multiply the essence as to appointe one onely person But generally I think we ought not to stryue either of one or of threefolde dippyng or sprinckling which also seemed vnto Gregory Bishop of Rome in his first booke Epistle 41. 26. 153. Question But heere againe there is another thing that I woulde learne of thee whether thou think that this fourme I baptise thee in the name or into the name of the Father the Sonne the holy Ghost bee precisely and in so many wordes and sillables necessarily to bee vsed For thou art not ignoraunt that the Grecians say let the seruaunt of Christ bee baptized into the name of the Father Answeare I say here omitting the quidities and subtilties of the schoolemen that two extreemes are diligently to be shunned of vs to witte that we neyther fall into the impietie of Magitians who faigne a certaine vertue in some certain wordes forasmuch as we haue said before as wordes in them selues haue nothing els but the force of signification neyther let vs thinke likewise that it is lawfull for vs in the institution of the Lorde so as it is prescribed of him in certayn words to chaunge any thing at all And nowe in very deede concerning that first pointe if there had bene any power and vertue in the letters sounds of the sillables themselues the Apostles must alwayes haue vsed the Syriach tongue forasmuch as it is plaine that our Lorde Iesus Christe spake in the same tongue Therefore he chaungeth nothing in the matter it selfe which speaketh the same thing which Christe him self hath instituted in that lāguage that they vse that are to bee baptized Yea hee that doeth otherwise as at this day is done in that counterfeite Church of Rome hee doeth euill because the Lorde will that those thinges be spoken with vnderstanding to his which hee would haue to be beleeued and done of all 154. Question I beseech thee therfore if the baptizer vse a straunge tongue not vnderstood of any whether is the baptisme ratified or no Answeare The efficacy or vertue of Baptisme doth not depend of the Baptizer so that hee as I haue sayde want not a vocation although it bee faultie And seeyng that Infantes haue as muche intelligence if thou speake in a strange tongue as if thou shouldest speake in thine owne language of the fruites of Baptisme which belongeth vnto them which afterwardes are come to theyr groweth doe depende vpon preachyng and Fayth which doe succeede in theyr tyme. But the calling vpon the name of the Lorde in others can not be in vayne although it bee wonderfully defiled by theyr faulte who preaching the worde or administring the Sacrament in the Church vse a straunge tongue 155. Question Is the Minister therefore precisely bound to vse the fourme commaunded by Christ the wordes onely altered by the sound of an other tongue Answeare Surely there can fal out no iust cause that may excuse any chaunge in so fewe words wherein that same whole perfect mysterie of the diuinitie is declared Question What therefore if any man should say indeede of the Father begetter for the Sonne begotten for the holy Ghost proceeding What if in steede of three distinct persons hee shoulde call vpon the Trinitie Answeare To what purpose I pray thee are these thinges the Lord hath commaunded in this mystery that we should not call vpon the personall proprieties but vpon the persons them selues and that vppon them distinctly I will therefore neuer admitte any affectate or deuized fourme in steede of that which is lawfull Question Muche lesse then wouldest thou admyt the takyng out of any person or any hereticall addition as if any man should say the Father greater the Sonne lesser or the holy Ghost onely proceeding from the Father Answeare Thou thinkest rightly For neither were this the Baptisme of the Church of Christ 156. Question But what thinkest thou of these same speeches I baptise thee or by the seruaunt of Christe bee Baptized Answeare Christ hath not prescribed vnto his Ministers what or howe many wordes they shoulde vse in the function of his ministery but hee hath defined the act it selfe when he commaundeth them to Baptise into the name of the Father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost Therefore they neyther adde nor diminishe from the worde of God but satisfie their office when they expound the institution of our Lorde it selfe vnto the bearers And when they bee come vnto the actuall fourme it selfe as I may say of the administration whether they
in the place where the Sacrament is administred 42 How whole Christ and al that belongeth to Christ differ 43 The difference in respect of another thing or another and for it selfe 44 That whole Christ but not the whole of Christ is present in what place soeuer the Sacramentes are administred 45 The chiefe head of the controuersie of the reall presence of Christes flesh 46 Foure opinions of the reall presence of the fleshe of Christ why they stray from the trueth 47 A speciall manner of Christes presence is required in the Sacrament 48 The maner of this speciall presence is to be esteemed by the end 49 The presence of Christ meerely respectiue set forth by examples 50 The reall presence and the sacramental presence diuerse 51 The sacramental presence dependeth vpon the onely will of God 52 The reall distance of the substances of the signe and things signified doth not make frustrate the Sacramentes Of the partaking of the signes and thinges signified 53 The bodily signes are receiued by the instrumentes of the body 54 The benefits of Christ seeing they are qualities are onely receiued of the mynde endued with fayth 55 Neither the person of the worde nor the soule of Christ can otherwise bee receiued of vs then by an effectual vertue and operation 56 The cleauing or sticking of the same body with ours is monstrous 57 Notwithstāding it behoueth vs to be vnited to Christ himselfe in deeed but spiritually 58 Why this partaking and communicating of Christ himself is called spiritual 59 Why the same is called mysticall 60 Why the same is called an vniting 61 The cōmuniō of the substāce of Christ himselfe is confirmed by similitudes 62 What in effect our communion with Christ himself is wherto it tendeth 63 Why there is rather mention made of the flesh then of the god heade in our vniting togeather with Christ 64 Although Christ cā be only applied to the mind endued with faith yet the fruit of this applicatiō belongeth to the body 65 Christ himselfe is truely communicated by faith not only in the simple word but also in either of the sacramentes 66 What difference there is betwene the meere spiritual sacramētal partaking of Christ 67 Christ himself with the same his gifts was the matter of the olde types and sacramentes 68 Augustine rightly said that the Sacramēts can haue no astonishmēt as wōders The cōparing of the old new sacramēts 69 The olde Sacramentes agree in some things with the later in som things they disagree amongest themselues 70 In what thinges they agree 71 In what thinges they disagree 72 The multitude of Sacramentes doeth not make the state of the olde Fathers better 73 How the proportion of our Sacramentes is more significant then of the Fathers 74 The Fathers and wee haue eaten the same meate 75 76 Howe the fleshe of Christe not yet beyng indeede was eaten of the fathers Of the Sacramentall formes of speaking 77 The Scripture doeth speake sometime properly and sometime figuratiuely of the Sacramentes 78 What Sacramentall formes are proper 79 The firste Sacramentall figuratiue forme is that whereby the name of the Element is attributed to the thing signified 80 The other forme whereby the name of the thing signified is attributed too the element 81 The third kynde whereby the effecte of the thing signified is attributed to the signes 82 The fourth kind whereby that which is proper to the signes is attributed to the thing signified 83 A metaphoricall body not therefore too bee imagined of vs in the Sacramentes 84 Whether to beleeue and too eate the fleshe of the Lord be all one 85 The Sacramentall figuratiue formes doe not darken but make playne those thinges which are taught of the Sacramentes 86 What the vse is of the Sacramental figuratiue formes Of the number of the Sacraments of Christians 87 That there are onely two Sacraments of the Christian Church Of Baptisme 88 What the woorde Baptisme importeth 89 What baptisme is being taken for the first Sacrament of the christian church Of the outward Baptisme 90 What the signes of baptisme are 91 Of the forged signes added too Baptisme Of the thinges signified in Baptisme 92 The thing that is signified by the Element of water 93 The thing signified by the rytes of baptisme 94 Why baptisme was ordayned in steed of olde washinges 95 The sprinkling of the water of Baptisme is signified by the ancient sprinkling of the blood 96 What it is to put on Christ 97 What the outward washing in baptisme is 98 How we dye are buryed and rife agayne with Christ in baptisme 99 After what maner Christ may be said to be dead buried and raysed from the dead for our sinnes 100 How mutuall fellowship in Christ is established in Baptisme Of the paterne answering to the figure of Baptisme 101 What the Exemplar is and what the respōdent figures of baptisme is 102. Baptisme not onely a signe but also a seale 103 The causes parts of Baptisme 104 What the formal woorde of Baptisme is 105 What it is to baptize into the name of the father of the Sonne and of the holy Ghost 106 The Apostles haue chaunged nothing in the formall worde of baptisme 107 What the effectes of baptisme are and from whence they arise 108 Sinne is one thing and sinnes another 109 What the remission of sinnes is 110 What regeneration is 111 At what time the effecte of baptisme beginneth 112 Baptisme abolisheth not sinnes only past 113 How farre foorth originall sinne ii taken away by baptisme Sundrie Questions concerning Baptisme 114 How farre foorth Baptisme is necessary to saluation 115 Whether the Baptisme of Iohn and of Christ was all one 116 All are not to be baptised 117 The faith of him that is to be baptized doth not necessarily goe before baptisme 118 Those are to be baptised which are comprehended within the Tables of the couenant 119 Profession of faith is required of those that are growne to yeeres of discretion being to be baptised 120 Children of Turkes are not to be admitted to Baptisme 121 Neither of the Iewes 122 123 The children which are borne eyther of the Parents being a Beleeuer are probably thought to belong vnto the couenant of Christ 124 We please God also being about to beleue not yet beleeuing 125 The promises beeing of the lawe in themselues are made of the Gospel Christ 126 What the faith of Parentes auaileth to their children 127 The particular hidden iudgementes of God are to be left to God concerning the children of the godly 128 What Baptisme sealeth in children not yet beleeuing in act 129 Whence those Questions sprang sometime accustomed to be made in the baptisme of infants 130 Why the children of Papistes may be baptised 131. 132. The Church yet too be in the papacie although papistrie be not christianitie 133 A papist beeyng of the yeeres of discretion and not yet baptized is not foorthwith to bee baptized 134
made the Sacrament of the blood of Christ and breade the Sacrament of his bodie and wine also of his blood 38. Question But thou a little before diddest cal these partes Answeare I did so and not without cause For these twoo which are causes by themselues are also essentiall partes of the thinges as the Logicians doe very well teach 39. Question Nowe what are the endes of these Sacramentes Answeare Some chiefe endes to wit that Christ as I haue said with all his gifts may more more be sealed in vs othersome not so special as that by this badge also we shoulde bee distinguished from others that make not profession of the Christian faith should bee knit together more and more amongst our selues in mutuall loue 40. Question And is there no more Answeare Yes this also is to be added That the Sacraments are also remēbraunces of thinges past as in the ceremonies of baptisme the powring out of water doth set before our eyes as present the shedding forth of Christes blood the putting into water the cōming out his death burial resurrection also the breaking of bread in the Supper doth after a sort represēt vnto vs Christ crucified for vs. 41. Question These thinges being expounded I woulde gladly learne of thee what the knitting together of the signes the thinges signified is For thou art not ignorant that this controuersie is specially handled nowadaies Whether the body and blood of the Lord be really present yea or no that is in the same place where that bread and that wine is or whether the signes remain as some think or be abolished the accidēts onely remaining as they teache which consent with the Pope Answeare This controuersy is growen so whot and come so farre that for the deciding thereof we neede rather conscience then knowledge but the Lorde alone either by some wonderfull iudgement or some notable example of his mercie will decide it notwithstanding I will endeuour too make it playne when I shall come too speake of the Lordes Supper Now that I may answeare to that which is demanded I say that forasmuche as the thinges signified both in the simple woorde and in the Sacramentes be partly things not subsisting or standing by themselues as the forgiuenesse of sinnes the gift of sanctification the encrease of faith incorporation into Christ and suche like that the questiō of the real presence of the things signified must necessarily bee restrayned to some real beyng Now as I suppose no other can bee put but Christe himselfe And when they with whom wee agree not concerning this matter doe not themselues as I suppose think that Christ should bee deuided as those that complaine notwithstanding vndeseruedly that the same is done of vs because that we denie the reall presence of Christes bodie Doest thou thinke that the state of this question is so too bee taken Whether Christe GOD and man bee present in those places themselues where the Sacramentes are ministred Question So I haue read in some of theyr wrytinges who notwithstanding affirme this not generally of all Sacramentes but onely of the Lordes Supper Answeare I woulde not doubte too affirme the same both of the supper of the Lord and of Baptisme and also after a certayne manner of those Sacramentes which were before the comming of Christ into the Earth neither woulde I think my selfe a Christian if I should denie this 42. Question I am glad that we agree amongest our selues Answere God graunt that at length we may agree Therfore heare I pray thee It cannot be denied but that Christ according too his Godhead is euery where This likewise is without all controuersie that forasmuch as mans nature is so taken of the Woorde that GOD and Man are one reall beeyng it must needes followe if thou consider Christe as some one and singular thing that whole Christ is also euery where present and yet not as in the Sacramentes in which vndoubtedly there must be appoynted some peculiar and special manner of presence as I may so speak that they may be distinguished from other common thinges in which also hee is present The other thing that I would haue wel weighed of thee is this that which is spoken of the whole is not yet spoken of the singular parts being amōgst themselues of a diuerse kinde As for example All the whole that we call man we define to be partaker of reasō which yet thou wilte not say of no essentiall parte of man considered in it selfe And yet there is somewhat in this definition too witte reason which is attributed to that other parte of man euen to the soule Doest thou not see then that whole Christ that is Christ considered as a certaine whole and absolute thing is another thing then all belonging to Christ that is Christ whō thou shalt way particularly by his partes For in this case let it be lawful for me to atttribute also the name of a part to the Godhead 43. Question I see it very well but is there any more Answeare Yea I woulde haue this farther to be marked of thee that certain thinges doo so fitly serue for the establishing of some singuler thing that that which by no meanes can agree by it selfe to some one may yet be attributed vntoo it as it cleaueth is conioyned with another the which thing is so farre foorth true that it may also be sayde of those which yet but accidentally onely and for a time are ioyned together as for example when a King is crowned and is honored in his robes the crowne and his robes are also reuerenced but yet in respect of another thing to witte of his kingly dignitie wherof they are ornamentes not in respect of them selues For heereby it plainely appeareth that the honour and reuerence is not referred too those things because when the king hath put them off no man can endure to reuerēce them vnlesse he bee out of his wits but they are reuerenced for another to wit for the Kinges sake of whom they are worne Neither euer doth the crown or robes grow vp into one real being with the king Much more therefore shall some thing be said in respect of another which is ioyned personally with another which yet can by no meanes in respect of it selfe be attributed vnto it So there is attributed to the worde taking mans nature that which is peculiar to mans nature as when it is sayd that God suffered as also to maas nature Actes 20. 28. that which is peculiar to the woorde taking vpon it mans nature as when in mās nature at what time he talked with Nichodemus in the earth he sayd that Iohn 3. 13. he was in heauen Question These thinges thou hast handled before But thou diddest adde that this was spoken of certaine distinct woordes to witte of God and man But of the abstract to witte of the Godhead and manhoode not so Answeare Vnlesse this be so the confusion of the naturall
do offer their children to the Priestes to be baptized of them Answeare No not so Question And yet thou sayest that that is a true baptisme Answeare And yet doth not that followe heere of For although that be auaileable that is geuen yet notwithstanding it followeth not that he is without sinne that required it For seing that many things are impure in the Papisticall rytes of Baptisme hee is not deuoyde of sinne which geueth occasion of the vse of thē that I say nothing that so by this means they are nourished in theyr bastardely calling whom those that shoulde chiefly take charge thereof ought by Christes example too driue out of the house of God Question What thinkest thou thē to be done of those fathers who imbracing true religion dwell amongest the Papistes Answeare I aduise thē that they spare no cost and leaue no way vnsought that they may prouide to haue their children baptized purely and that rather they defer their baptisme then become guiltie of those corruptions 146. Question But what if in the meane tyme the childe dye Answeare Surely the chylde it selfe shall not beare the blame and we haue sayd often tymes alreadie that it is not the want of baptisme but the contempt of it in it selfe that maketh a man vnwoorthie of the benefite of the couenant Question But the Lorde witnesseth that it shall come to passe that whosoeuer is not circumcized shal be cut off Genes 17. 14. Answeare If thou vnderstande this of the shutting out aswell from holy exercises of religion as from ciuill fellowshyp because it is added from amongest his people this shal be the manacing that the vncircumcized were neyther admitted to the exercises of religion nor to ciuill offices But if thou take this of the shutting out from the very couenaunt of euerlasting saluation this that is added for hee hath ouerthrowen my couenaunt sheweth that it must bee vnderstood of those onely which willingly and wittingly or els through negligence shall haue dispised Circumcision Yea rather it is certayne that they who lyued so long vncircumcized in the Wildernesse Iosuah 5. 4 yet for all that went to the holy congregations and were accompted Citizens of the commō wealth of the Iewes to wyt because that fell out not through contempte of Circumcision but because it could not bee commodiously ministred in the Wildernesse For it is not probable that Moyses and Aaron woulde otherwyse haue neglected it 147. Question But thinkest thou that there is no consideration to be had of the age of those that are to be baptized Answeare For as much as the profession of faith is required of those that are of the yeres of discretion the more diligent that they shal be in knowing the chiefe and principall pointes of Christian religion the better they shal prouide for them selues But the sooner that godly parentes shal offer their children to bee baptized the better they shall doe least if it might be they shoulde bee depriued of this benefite 148. Question But yet the Male children of the Israelites were not circumcized before the eight day Gen. 17. 12. Answeare Forsooth because there was another lawe that letted pronouncing those to bee vncleane till the seuenth day that had touched a woman in childe bedde Leuit. 12. 2. 15. 19. 149. Question But it is euident that many put off Baptisme long so that euen Gregory Nazianzen the sonne of a Bishop him selfe came not to bee baptized vntill he was euen nowe fully growen and come to rype yeeres Answeare This also manifesteth as many other thinges doe the negligence of many Bishops of vs not in any case to be followed Moreouer Nazianzen himselfe doeth sharpely reprooue euen this same putting off of Baptisme in his oration vpon holy Baptisme with whome notwithstanding I doe not consent in this as also I doe not in certayne other poyntes comprehended in the same oration because hee persuadeth vs to put off the Baptisme of children to the space of three or foure yeares some at lesse or more vnlesse sayeth hee that daunger doe enforce vs in which they myght learne answere some mysticall thing For that very Lawe of Circumcision sheweth that this is a most vayne reason which was giuē aswel as baptisme for the sealing vp of that couenaunt in Christ 150. Question But what tyme thinkest thou the fittest to administer Baptisme Answeare Here in a maner it is incredible to be spoken howe great confusion was brought into the Churches vnder the shewe of order and specially into the Greeke Churches For it is certayne by the Acts of the Apostles that at the beginning baptisme was ministred as occasion was offred they for the moste parte which came vnto Baptisme beeing rather endued with Faith in Christ by miracle then by any order of the institution Afterwardes as it specially appeareth by the seconde Defensory oration of Iustinus the holy Ghost beginning to woorke by litle and litle by ordinary means when the congregations were gathered together baptisme was ministred Afterwardes that all things might be done in order instructers being ordeyned two dayes were at the first by a certayne custome then by lawe and at length as it were by a certaine superstition appointed for the baptizing of those that were so instructed Nowe at the length it was brought to this passe that it was in a maner compted a great trespasse to baptize at any other time then at Easter and at Whitsontide Further vnder the cullour of this order appointed to the end that they that were catechized suche as were in the beginning all those that were to be baptised as well of the Iewes as of the Gentiles should not be called euery day nor before a lawful profession it is in a manner incredible to thinke what confusions were pulled intoo the church especially for that cause because that whereas baptisme in those same that were of the yeeres of discretion was the first entrance intoo the congregation of the Church they coulde not precisely wayte for the sett time of Easter and Whitsontide but they must thinke themselues after a sort condemned who in the meane season fell into the daunger of death And heerevpon that also ensued that they were bounde too discharge an infinite number from those Lawes who also pretended other thinges So crept in that same errour to the absolute necessitie of baptisme which opinion when it seemed to thrust downe all men headlong into hell a wise treacle was giuen of some diuising a certaine place in which they shoulde bee placed which were deade without baptisme through no faulte of their owne neyther shoulde they feele indeede those euerlasting paynes neyther be pertakers of that heauenly blessednesse which also Nazianzen hath taught I omitte other infinite things which may rightly cause Christians being better learned too bee ashamed and were brought in by the meanes of those thinges which at the first were appointed for order sake Question But what doest thou gather of these Answeare That for as
that same bread his bodie that same cup his blood where that same bread is called the communion of his body that same cup the communion of his blood doeth altogether shewe that bothe these sayinges are figuratiue or at least wise one of them too witte eyther that of Paule or that of Christ Question To wit that of Paule is to bee expounded out of the proper saying of Christ Answeare Therefore at the length thou arte brought too confesse that whosoeuer doeth mainteine and defende figures in the controuersie of the Sacraments doe not ouerthrowe the Testament of the Sonne of GOD. But to the matter It is easie too shewe out of our seuenth Argument and out of that that went next before that both these were figuratiue whether thou doe interprete that out of this or this out of that as for example both these Propositions This cup for this Wine is my blood and this wine is the communion of my bloode nowe the like is too bee thought of breade it is diuers from this this wine is the licour of the vine which notwithstanding thou must needes say is most proper and therefore so stoutly to bee maintened because as we haue saide ouerthrowing or taking away the substaunce of the signe the foundation of the analogy or proportion shoulde also bee taken away and ouerthrowen Question I would answeare that both Christ and Paule passed this ouer as a thing sufficiently knowen For to what purpose shoulde he haue taught his Disciples that that bread which he held in his handes was breade and that wine But vndoubtedly it behooued him to teach them that which otherwise they woulde neuer haue beleeued too witte that those thinges also which hee helde in his handes and gaue them in vnder or with Bread and Wyne was his body and his blood Answeare Therefore thou must needes determine that the figure Synecdoche is in these woordes This breade and this cuppe and therefore whilest thou studiest to auoyde figures thou fallest into a figure But we will way this Synecdoche in his place to wit when we shal come too the confutation But thou in the meane time shalt not so escape For with what manner and with how great coniunction soeuer thou shalte couple those two vnlike thinges in themselues indeede togeather suche as are the bread and the body wine and the blood yet notwithstanding thou shalte neuer bring to passe that the one may properly be sayd to be the other No neyther in the coniunction can one be sayde to be the other but eyther of them must bee made a certayne thirde thing Therefore this at the least must bee a proper proposition in or vnder or with this bread and wine is my body blood It remayneth therefore that thou confesse that both this saying of Christe and that of Paule whether thou interprete this out of that or that out of this be figuratiue 230. Question Howe therefore doest thou thinke this place of Paule shoulde bee expounded Answeare First of all they are to be confuted who take the Greeke word 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 which signifieth common for distribution which the matter it selfe cryeth out too be most absurd forasmuch as bread and wine are substances but distribution is an action and Paule himselfe expounding that vseth a woorde that signifieth to participat and the scope it selfe of the Apostle requireth that it declare a communion and not a distribution Moreouer it is woonder that they who allowe no trope in the matter of the Sacramēt that they can in this place interpret the cōmunicating of the body for the bodie communicated or distributed that is cā confound the action with the effect For neither in good sooth doe they this well because they referre this distribution to the word of breaking as though Paule had written the bread which we distribute is the body cōmunicated For the word of breking ought to be taken properly in this action as wee haue shewed before and it appeareth by the word he gaue which is added to the woorde hee brake in the narration of the Euangelist Question What therefore thinkest thou 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 to be called Answeare Commmunion and felowship which is the true signification of his word it differeth somwhat frō 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 as Chrysost noteth although Paule vseth the verbe 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 and 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 indifferently one for the other Such as the Communion is therefore that is to say the naturall societie of all men in the common nature of flesh blood as between themselues with Christ himselfe such is the communion by the goodnesse of God betwixt al the faithful Christ into whom they are engraffed and incorporated Question But by what maner of speach may that breade bee said to be that same felowship and communion Answeare With the Logitians it is called a causall affirmation whereby the proper effect is attributed to the proper cause whether it bee materiall or efficient which manner or fashion is to be referred to the fourth maner of affirming by it selfe as they speake in the schooles Now a figuratiue speach is when the effect is put for the cause or else forsooth for the very efficient cause as for example when Christ is called the resurrection the life for the rayser and giuer of life or the cause of resurrection life or for the materiall cause as when Paule sayeth You are my glory or reioycing the is to say the matter of my glory or reioycing or for the instrumental which also is it self efficient 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 〈◊〉 that is to say being as it were an vnder seruer as when the Gospel is said to be the power of God to saluation that is to say the instrument that God vseth effectually too saue vs. So also in this place that same Breade and that same wine are sayde to be that communion that is to say the instrumentes whereby that same consociation and felowship of ours is wrought and ratified in vs. Now this same instrument is sacramentall or rather symbolicall and not the verye efficient cause which is the holy Ghost Therefore as that same figuratiue proposition of Christe This bread is my body is expoūded by this This bread is sacramental my bodie so also this saying of Paul This bread is the communication of my bodie is to be expounded by this proper This bread is the Sacramental instrument of our consociation and felowship with the bodie of Christ For there the figure is onely in the Copulatiue that knitteth the matter together to wit a Sacramental Metonymie or translation but heere also in the attribute is a figure which they call Metalepsis too witte putting the effecte for the cause 231. Question But canst thou besides bring forth any other argumentes Answeare Yea that can I. And first of all that same from the essentiall and constituting fourme of all the Sacramentes which is in summ that they may consist of the