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ID Title Author Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication) STC Words Pages
A48815 A conference between two Protestants and a papist, occasion'd by the late seasonable discourse Lloyd, William, 1627-1717. 1673 (1673) Wing L2675; ESTC R23405 26,381 34

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in his necessities help a Legat of the Apostolic See both going and coming I will endeavour to preserve defend increase and promote the Rights Honours Privileges and Authority of the H. Rom. Church our Lord the Pope and his aforesaid Successors I will not communicate in counsel deed or treaty in which any thing sinister and prejudicial to their Person Right Honour State and Power shall be design'd against our said Lord by the Rom. Church And if I shall know any such thing to be treated or endeavoured I will hinder it to my power and as soon as ever I can will acquaint our said 〈◊〉 therewith or some body else by whom it may come to his knowledge I will 〈◊〉 self observe and cause to be observ'd by others the Rules of the H. Fathers the Decrees Ordinances or Dispositions Reservations Provisions and Apostolical commands I will to my power prosecute and impugn Hereticks Schismaticks and Rebels to our said Lord and his said Successors If I be call'd to a Synod I will come unless I be hindred by a canonical impediment Every three years I will personally visit the shrines of the Apostles and render account to our Lord and his Successors aforesaid of my whole pastoral Office and of all things any way belonging to the state of my Church the discipline of the Clergy and People and the health of Souls entrusted to my charge and on the other side will humbly receive and most diligently perform the Apostolical commands If I be detained by a lawful impediment I will fulfill all aforesaid by a special Messenger having a special Mandate to that purpose chosen from the bosom of my Chapter or some other Ecclesiastical Dignitary or otherwise having some Ecclesiastical Personage or in default of such by some Priest of my Diocess and if there be none of my Clergy by some other Priest Secular or Regular of approved virtue Religion fully instructed in all matters aforesaid And of such impediment I will make lawfull proof to be sent by my said Messenger to the Cardinal presiding proponert●m in the Congregation of the Sacred Council I will not sell nor give nor pawn nor mortgage anew infeudabo nor alienate in any manner the Possessions belonging to my Table even with the consent of the Chapter of my Church without consulting the Bishop of Rome And if I do proceed to any alienation I consent ●o ipso to incur the penalties contain'd in a certain Constitution set forth of this matter So help me God and these H. Ghospels of God F. Well Sir what say you to it P. I say I would not take it for the best Bishoprick in Christendom As far as I can judg it is direct Prae●●nire and perhaps worse But pray Sir where did you find it Those Princes who are of the Popes communion are careful enough of their Authority It seems impossible they should be ignorant of it and incredible they shou'd permit their Subjects to take it I cannot believe it is in use wherever you found it F. I have never been present at the consecration of any of your Bishops to say of my own knowledg that it is taken But I know it is prescribed in your Pontifical to be taken And I suppose your Bishops are consecrated according to the prescriptions of your Pontifical P. Really Sir you tell me news and such as I dare answer there is not on one at least Lay Catholick in ten thousand that ever heard of it I will not question the truth of what you ●ay because I do not mistrust you and besides 't is an easie matter when I can meet with a Pontifical to see what is there But I must still remain of my former opinion that 't is not generally in use though perhaps it may be in the Popes own territories The Authority of the Pontifical is no proof as to that point For other countreys have their Pontificals and Liturgies of their own framing and that may be in the Roman Pontifical which perhaps is no where else That 't is of no ancient standing is clear by the Oath it self which mentions the Congregation of the Sacred Council and every body knows that that Congregation was erected since the Council of Trent and every body knows too tha● since that time Popes have not had that credit in the world that they could impose Oaths upon the Subjects of other Princes without the consent of those Princes For England in particular besides the Statutes beforementioned which in my opinion quash it sufficiently there is mention in Sir Ed Cook in his 3 book of Institutes tit Praemuni●e of a renunciation used even from the times of Ed. 1. and Ed. 2 in these words I renounce all the words comprised in the Popes Bull to me made of the Bishoprick of A which ●e contrary or prejudicial to the King our Soveraign Lord and to his crown And of that I put my self humbly in his Grace praying to have restitution of the temporalities of my Church This renunciation must needs be a great deal more ancient than this Oath and since our Catholick Ancestors thought fit to renounce all words inserted in Bulls prejudicial though to a less degree than this Oath However it be 't is a clear case that being made by the Pope none can be more obliged to take it than to receive his other Decrees which as we have discourst already no Nation is oblig'd to do but by free consent as far as they find them beneficial to themselves Wherefore as I said before allow us Ecclesiastical Ministers of whose fidelity you may be assured and we will be careful enough you may be sure not to run rashly and ca●slesly into Praemunires or if we do the Pope himself cannot blame you if you severely execute those Laws which have been made even by Catholicks But if you force us to take them upon such terms as we can get them we are blameless if things happen which we cannot avoid F. Why but you cannot avoid this For let us allow you what liberty we will the Pope never make you Bishops on other terms and you believe Bishops cannot be made but by him or authority derived from him P. I have already told you I do not believe Bishops are made any where upon those terms except perhaps in his own territories but I am very certain they need not be any where and am farther very certain that in England they should not be if you would allow us the liberty of acting in the concerns of Religion openly and without such fear of the Laws that many times we do we know not what our selves Believe me the Pope is too wise to give occasion to examin whether B●shops may not be made without his intervening For 't is well known that Bishops were made and governed the Church a long time and he never medled in the business And at this day there are who will by no means use the ordinary stile Dei Aposholica