the truth of God or his imperfectiō the perfection of God Farre be it off yea let God be true everie man a lyer sayth the Apostle in the same place VVe vvill make the matter playne by an example and similitude out of the vvords of Ieremie chap. 3. A vvife being filthie vvith adulteries if her husband vvill pardon her and consent to receiue her and to dvvell vvith her she abideth still the vvife of her husband not by her ovvne deede doone for she hath broken wedlock vvhat in her vvas but by the benefit or goodnes of her husband So a Church overflovving not onely vvith lighter infirmities but also vvith heavie adulteries on her part in deed should cease to be a vvife but she ceaseth not on her husbands part For touching the election as the Apostle sayth Rom. 11.28 she is beloved for the fathers sakes speaking of the church of the Iewes It is a church so long as God calling her proclaymeth that vvhich is in Ier. 3.13 Onely acknowledge thine iniquitie that thou hast transgressed against the Lord thy God and hast scattered thy waies to the straungers under everie green tree and ye haue not obeyed my voyce sayth the Lord. Turne ô backslyding people sayth the Lord for I am maryed unto you I will take you c. It is so long a church as God protesting calleth upon it departing from him and being rebellious as it is in Esa 50 1. Where is the bil of your mothers divercement wherewith I put her away or who is there of my creditours to whom I sould you c. The church then at length ceaseth to be a church vvhen God ceaseth to call it back taketh avvay the evidence of that holie marriage that is the holie Scripture out of the hand of the adulteres and her that is stubburne testifying that the matrimonie is dissolved on his part and so receiveth the covenant of grace unto himself It is not for any man to deny that to be a church which God calleth a church Neyther is it for any man to call that a church vvhich God having giuen the bil of divorce and taken avvay the draught of the mariage contract denyeth so to be And after this maner doe vve esteeme of the Church in vvhich the papacie is God calleth her vvith his calling by his spirit and vvord and the publike records of that holie mariage vvhich vve call the holie Scripture and the ministerie and things and holy actions vvhich before vve haue briefly reckoned up These things doe remayne to that church most manifestly on Gods behalf But in that on the behalf of men all these things and holie actions together vvith the verie persons themselues abound and overflovve vvith most grievous deadly corruptions that is the sinne of men not the fault of God vvhose grace truth is perfected in infirmitie On Gods part she is yet called Hammi my people and Ruchama finding mercie which most truly on her part might be called Lo hammi not my people and Lo ruchama not obteyning mercie as vve read in Hosea the Prophet But vve rely upon the mercie of God and according to his grace revealed vve speake our minde or vve giue our sentence concerning a church erring and going astray But this Church hath everie thing in it corrupt I confesse it But in that it hath all the divine things in the Scritures it is of God in that it hath them all corrupt that is of it self in that it hath all the divine things it is a church in that it hath the same all corrupt it is a corrupt church The church is not taken avvay by corruption unles it be totall as they speak vvhich they call destruction A corruption that is in part doth not take avvay a Church but vveaken it The Church of Rome hath all things corrupt but not altogether this is not a destruction but is to be called a corruption of it in part For to prosecute these heads particularly vvhich vvee haue briefly noted in the consideration of the Church God by the alone presence of himself calling doth lay the foundation of the Church in Christ the head thereof The church of Rome addeth another foundation to this foundation and to this head another nevv head vvhereupon it is called papall or popish vvherein it may likevvise rest The calling is to God alone in the church of Rome there is calling to others vvith God and the calling upon them Here is calling by the spirit and Scripture alone vvhence it receiveth the ministerie delivereth nothing more thē that vvhich it hath received from the Lord there it receiveth a ministerie from the spirit of Christ of the Pope from the Scripture and the ragged traditions of men here finally the persons things and actions are caried according to the doctrine of the Spirit the Scripture onely there all things are taken and exercised out of the Popes changeable shoppe and at his beck as they say they stand and fall So all the marks on Gods behalf are in it but for it self on it ovvne part as they say there is no marke intire no marke that is not corrupt by the papall poysonfull sorcerie and the order of all things most miserably perverted For vvhich cause in Lyons in France a certayne Frier did merrily preach to the people vvhen he sayd the Hugonots for so they are called in France did consent vvith the church of Rome in all their articles of fayth but there was one shrevvd vvord the vvord Onely at the crack vvhereof vvarre vvas inkindled for they beleeue onely vvhat the rule of fayth hath out of the holie Scriptures but the church of Rome requireth more unto fayth then is eyther conteyned in the rule of fayth or in the holie Scriptures because such is the authoritie of the Church These things being vvell understood all men vvill easely perceiue hovv that church in respect of God or on Gods part is yet a church but of it self is most corrupt very nere to destruction But here doe arise tvvo doubts difficulties by vvhich the mindes of many are troubled The first doubt is vvhat vve are to judge of the members of that church The latter vvhat the dutie of them is vvho are in that church and see the great corruptions thereof To the first question we ansvver on this manner A threefold judgment had neede meet together in this cause the first of truth the second of charitie the third of prudence or vvisdome The judgment of truth is of the common condition of the church by vvhich vve judge frō the calling of God that as yet she is a church The judgement of charitie is of the severall mēbers of the church by vvhich we presume they be members of the church whilst they are called vvith the calling of God and are in this way as David calleth it Psal 2. The judgement of prudence or vvisdome is that by vvhich vve discerne and distinguish persons things
transgressions of those Churches and members thereof vvhere novv they are or vvhere ever they should be But thus hath it pleased God to make us like in bearing reproches and calumniations to his Saincts and people of old vvho feeling the burden therof to be heavie and grievous complained unto the Lord saying How long shall the adversarie reproch shall the enemie blaspheme thy name for ever Psal 74.10 And againe they utter forth their complaint saying Wee are a reproch to our neighbours a scorne and derision to them that are round about us Psal 79.4 And even this is our case vvho also are made a reproch to our neighbours a jest and a laughing stock to them that are round about us having our soules also as they had theirs filled too full of the mocking of the vvealthie and dispitefulnes of the proud Psal 44.13 and 123.4 So that in respect hereof vve may complain vvith David vvho said I was a reproch among all myne enemies but specially among my neighbours and a feare to myne acquaintance who seeing mee in the streets fled from me And againe I am become a straunger unto my Brother even an aliant unto my mothers sonnes I became a proverbe unto them and they that sitte in the gatespake against me and the drunckards song of me Psal 31.11 and 69.7.8.11.12 And although our loving Father do thus humble chastise us justly for our sinnes yet doth he also in mercie cover them and gives us novv to beare these sclanderous reports of Schismatikes and the like for the testimonie of his truth In vvhich respect the Lord indeed honoureth us For our Churches estate and our consciences do vvitnesse vvith us and for us to God and men that vve have not vvillingly left any truth or any ordinance of God that vve had formerly received vvith others in our apostate standing but are carefull to reteyne them all vvhat in us is purged from the corruptions that vvere mixed vvith thē in our former corrupt receiving of thē Neyther have vve made division and offences contrarie to the doctrine vvhich vve have learned from the Apostles but do vvalke in the auncient vvaie of the primitive Churches keeping the ordinances vvorship and order of government prescribed by the Apostles vvithout the mixture of Antichristiā or other humane additions And therefore unjustly are vve termed Schismatikes If it can be shevved othervvise in any thing let the vvitnesses the vvritings of the Apostles and Prophets be brought forth against us and vve trust vve shall through the grace of God yeeld thereunto as vve have ben carefull hitherto to shevv it forth in the redressing of such things as have ben observed among us to svvarve any vvaie frō the word of God Great are our tryals by men on all hands vvhich vve suffer for our vvitnesse bearing of Iesus vvhiles besides our exile other afflictions some are speaking bitter and sclanderous vvords against us yea and our ovvne neighbours spare us not and others also sharpen their pennes to reproch us and to that ende vvrite reprochful books against us that vve may say vvith Israel If the Lord had not bene on our side when men rose up against us they had swallowed us up quick Psal 124. 1-3 Yet if these reproches hard dealings touched our selves onely and did not vvith all reach to the truth vvhich vve vvitnesse vve could and vvould rest patiently vvayting untill the Lord avenge our cause vvould not once open our mouthes or set our pennes to paper to vvrite in defence of our porsonall injuries But seeing thus together vvith detracting of us the truth of God comes to be reproched and despised in this respect if vve should passe over these things altogether vvith silence and not stand in defence of the Lords cause vve might be arraigned justly as guyltie of betraying his truth as men ashamed of Christ before men VVe dare not therefore herein be vvanting to beare vvitnesse to the vvord of truth vvhen men thus labour the darkning thereof and for the maintenance of their ovvne corruptions do set them selves to speake and vvrite against the same Of late there is come forth a pamphlet and sclanderous book full of reproches published by one Christopher Lawne and other his companions In vvhich there are conteyned sundrie things of divers sorts Some touching our generall cause about the Church of England some concerning the singing of Psalmes used among us some about personall matters concerning divers of us others some touching a divisio made lately by divers amōg us c. Concerning our generall cause although we have written often and manie treatises thereabout vvhich remaine yet unansvvered yet seeing vve are here againe thus abused about it and that not onely by the persons aforesaid vvhich vve might better passe by but by one M. Robert Parker vvhose testimonie is here inserted vve purpose therefore Godvvilling to vvrite in particular about his testimonie c so againe by this occasion to publish somevvhat more about that our generall cause aforesaid although for the present vve have both some occasions to deale in other things and some reasons to staye us yet a vvhile frō publishing of that vvhich by the grace of God vve purpose to doe In the meane time let this be noted concerning M. Parker and his testimonie hovv he hath heretofore in a large booke pleaded against the Church of England that by reason of the crosse in Baptisme other Ceremonies reteyned among them they become guiltie of the breach of all the tenne commandements as also of cōmuniō vvith Antichrist slaverie under him c. Novv vve purpose to trie hovv he can on the other hand approve the state of the same Church as novv it standeth and as it is vvitnessed against by us hovv he can vvarrant us communion vvith the same in that their estate or vvhether it may please God by this meanes to give him others better to observe and regarde their halting betvveen tvvo opinions then hitherto they have done VVe finde that for the former plea handled in his book he hath alledged the Scriptures plētifully as throughout the book may be seen but vvhether he can so doe for this latter spokē of in his testimonie against us time and further occasion vvill manifest Yet in the meane time all may see that there is not the like done against our cause eyther in his testimonie published or in the vvhole book vvherevvith his testimonie is joyned vvhich is as barren of vvarrant from the Scripture for the estate of the Church of Englād called into questiō as M. Parkers former book against it is fruitfull therein VVhich let the Reader vvell observe Touching the singing of Psalmes used amongst us vvhereof the persons aforesaid speak also their pleasure in their book vve are purposed ere long if God vvillto publish them vvhatsoever those men saye or vvould insinuate to the contrarie or in anie other respect thereabout And so vve shall leave it to the
functions given by the Lord in and to his church for the help and service of all to the building up of the mysticall bodie of Christ VVhereupon the Apostle shevveth it also by the similitude proportion of the members of the naturall bodie and of the severall faculties thereof vvhich he applyeth and extendeth even to the feeblest members and to the least and youngest children of the Church that are but newly baptised 1 Cor. 12 13-22 c. to vvhom yet he appointeth not the cases of sinne and pleas of the other members of the church to be brought for judgement censure as these men hereupon vvould inferre and as the matter in question is about Mat. 18 17. Moreover the things there spoken of the bodie and of the parts thereof might likevvise of old be applyed to Israel according to their estate and they vvere then bound accordingly to vvalke as members of one and the same bodie affording all help service and comfort they could one unto another Yet this might not then nor may not now hinder nor pervert the ordinance of God about the Elders hearing and judging the causes of their brethren censuring them according to their demerit but in deede it doth much more strongly establish it inasmuch as the Governours are by the Lord set in the Church for that use and so for the benefit of the whole as also that all the members have not gifts fit for examining of persons and deciding of cases and questions that doe fall out and yet notvvithstanding are members in the bodie and have othervvise their good use being fitly imployed and must be holpen of the rest as their need is and be partakers of the gifts bestovved upon others for their good and comfort And yet further this Scripture is more direct against thē in that it sheweth how in the Church some have a more chief place then others as the head eyes hands in the bodie are therefore to be respected imployed according to their gifts and place vvherein God hath set them 1 Cor. 12.14 28. VVhich is litle regarded of them vvho in cases of question and controversie vvhere there is greatest need of most knovvledge and vvisedome vvill then look vvhere the greatest number of the people is though they may be of the most simple and vvill have them to be the Church and to haue the Churches povver and authoritie to give the sentence yea albeit that all the Elders other brethren of better judgment but fevver in number be against them as if the multitude should still be follovved that there vvere no difference or inequalitie of gifts of Office or other respect at all to be had VVhich how far it is from the intendement of this Scripture alledged by themselues let all that understand according to sobrietie judge And let these men if they vvill not be taught otherwise 1 Cor. 12. cōpare vvith it rom 12. 3-8 yet learne of their ovvne bodies from vvhich the Apostle borrovveth his similitude here and there they shall see that all the members of the bodie are not given or used for counsel and determination in the things that concerne it though yet they have their other profitable use whereupon it is that vvhen some part of the bodie is hurt the hand is not used or sought unto to see withall nor the foot to heare neyther doth the head take them to consult and determine vvhat to doe there about but vvhen the head it self hath considered determined according to the gift dutie thereof then it useth the help of the hand or foot or any or all the members according as there is need and occasion And thus have all the members their good use service in the bodie being rightly used applyed thereunto But should novv hereupon the hands or feet say because they are not sought unto and employed to see hear determine as the eye eare and head are that therefore they loose their right and are not used or regarded as the mēbers of the bodie should Yet after such a maner plead the people aforesaid that they are vvronged loose their right and libertie if vvhen matters of sinne and question arise between brethren of the church they be not sought unto and bound to come together to hear and determine the cases to examine and censure the persons so dealt vvithall Nay though the Elders sitte publickly to hear and judge such causes and that it be left free for any of the people to come that vvil yet they thinke they have injurie unles that they be called upon and bound to come together and that they also make inquisition and censure the causes and persons dealt vvithall that the greater number of their voyces though vvithout and against all the Elders be taken for the Churches sentence c. VVhich in deed what is it els but as if eyther the whole bodie should become one member an eye an eare an head or the like or as if the foot should say Because I am not the hand I am not of the bodie or as if the hand should say Because I am not employed as the eye eare or head therefore I lose my right and am not used or esteemed in the bodie as I ought to be Yea vvhat is it els but to bring them selves into bondage and in deed to bring an Antichristian servitude on the people in the Church vvhen it being left free unto them to come or not to come yet that shall not suffice unles they be bound thereunto as is aforesaid And so it shall not be ynough that the Elders by their Office are bound unto it Rom. 12 7 8. 1 Thes 5.12.13 1 Tim. 5.17.18 and ought to have mayntenance for the doing of it and of the other duties of their Office but the men must vvithout any allowance for it leave their trades and callings the vvomen their houses and samilies the children their schooling and employment the servants their vvork and labour As may come to passe in great cōgregatiōs when many cases are to be heard c. and must come together though it should be day after day to heare and judge the cases that fall out betvveen brother and brother according to Mat. 18.17 For by this Scripture in 1 Cor. 12. chap. they vvill have it understood of men vvomen and children that can sorrovv and rejoyce vvith others as before vvas shewed And many moe things might be noted about this and the other Scriptures spoken of but these few observations may suffice Yet afore I proceed let me by this occasion note tvvo things more hereabout in generall The one that as it often cometh to passe vvith heretiks schismatiks Antichristians that the verie Scriptures alledged by themselves being searched and duly vveighed they are fit forceable against themselues so it is fallen out vvith these men in this case as may appeare by that vvhich hath ben sayd touching the
sort and vvith what scandal the brethren aforesaid haue since divided themselues from us and that the reproch of it is spread farre and neare not onely by others but even by their ovvne letters and vvritings thereabout to the great dishonour of God and hindrance of the truth and that the knowledge of these things vvill be a good meanes for all both to settle their owne judgment better and to deale with them or others concerning these matters as there shal be occasion we have therefore thought it not amisse to note down here the cōtents of the letters aforesaid that passed betvveene us hereabout before the others departing from us VVhich we may also the better doe because they are but few and short First therefore when we had afterward had further speach among our selues as is aforesaid and had not yet heard frō the Church at Leyden agayne vvhat they thought of the matter and message aforesaid or vvhether they consented unto it or not we vvrote unto them as follovveth Beloved touching the things that haue now lately ben spoken off between the two Churches yours and ours about the dismission of such on cyther part as are not content with protestation peaceably to walk in their difference of judgment we have occasion to entreat the continuance of your consideration yet further thereabout 1. because your selves signified it came sodainly upon your Church and if eyther you or we mynded otherwise by the word of God we should after signify it Wherefore we expect to heare whether you continew like mynded as heretofore 2. because there is with us a new motion of our walking together thus by bearing one with another so as for peace to permit of a double practise among us that those that are mynded eyther way should keep a like course together as we would doe if we were asunder according as the persons shall be that haue the causes Which way if it may be found warrantable by the word of God and peaceable unto and among our selues we hope all that love peace in holynes will accord These things as we are to consider of so pray we you to doe the like with us and for us that we may doe that which is most to Gods glorie and our mutuall comfort Thus c. Amsterdam Novemb. 5. old style 1610. And note here how we both considered further of these things and still limited our consultation and purpose with this caution if the things propounded were found warrantable by the word of God VVhich is to be observed for the waight of it against these persons who haue taken such a course together vvith their opinions as can never be vvarranted by the vvord of God Next follovveth the letter and ansvver which then vve received from the Church of Leyden agayne vvhich vvas thus Touching the agreement Brethren between the Churches for our mutuall peace and the relief of the consciences of our brethren we did and doe repute the same as full and absolute on both sides except eyther some better course can be thought on or this manifested to be evill and that then it be reversed with the mutuall consent of both Churches And for this last motion about a double practise as we are glad of the great and godly desire to continew together in it manifested so doe we not see how it can stand eyther with our peace or it self but that it will not onely nourish but even necessarily beget endles contentions whē men diversly mynded shall have busines in the Church If therefore it would please the Lord so far to enlarge your hearts on both sides brethren as that this middle waie be held namely that the matter of offence might first be brought for order preparatation and prevention of unnecessarie trouble unto the Elders as the Church governours though it is like we for our parts shall not so practise in this particular and after if things be not there ended to the Church of Elders and brethren there to be judged on some ordinarte knowen day ordinarily the admonition being carryed according to the alteration practised and agreed upon by all parts till it shall please the God of wisdome and Father of lights by the further consideratiō discussing of things eyther in word or writing to manifest otherwise for our joynt accord it would surely make much to the glorie of God the stopping of their mouthes which are so wide opened upon us in respect of our dayly dissipations and should be to us matter of great rejoycing whose soules doe long after peace abhorre the contrarie and that thus walking in peace and holynes we might all beg at Gods hands the healing and pardon of all our infirmities so be readie to heale and forgive the infirmities one of another in love And with this prayer unto God for you and for our selues we resalute you in the Lord Iesus Leyden November 14. 1610. This vvas their letter VVherin obserue these things about the matters that passed betvveen us First that here is the ansvver vvhich they gaue us about the agreement and message aforesaid as also to the letters which aftervvard we sent unto them Secondly that touching the agreement they limit their consent unto it their account of it with a double exceptiō For though they say they repute the agreement to be full and absolute on both sides yet they speak it with limitation and exception as in deed vvas good and needfull to doe both in respect of the thing it self and seeing at the first propounding of the matter it was so mynded by them and us to be considered of with limitation of being found lawfull by the word of God Thirdly that the exceptions vvhich here they made vvere these except eyther some better course could be thought on or this manifested to be evill So then by this it is evident that if eyther a better course could be shevved or this manifested to be evill they did not yeeld or repute the agreement to be full and absolute Novv touching the shewing of a better course it appeareth by both of these letters theirs and ours that both of us vvere thinking of it therefore propounded other courses each to other to be considered To vvhich end may be observed here their propounding of another waie unto us for peace agreement vvith divers reasons to perswade thereunto VVhich had ben altogether in vayne for them to propound or us to think of if the other had ben absolute vvithout exception and irrevocable vvithout alteration though it vvere found never so evill or unlavvfull And for the manifesting of it to be evill the more vve thought of it the worse we found it to be and mynded divers reasons against it vvhich first vve signified here to the brethren themselues and had some reasoning vvith them thereof but could not agree thereabout and then we vvrote of them also to the Church at Leyden as by the next letter here follovving will appeare And we need not
children such of them as are able to rejoyce and sorrovve with others And vve note this to be of telling men women and children in their ovvne persons because otherwise it is graunted that the Congregation is told according to order and rules of governement in the telling of the Elders And here it is to be remembred hovv it hath often ben signifyed that vvhether wee understand those words of telling the Church thus Tell the Congregation to weet according to the rules and order of governement appointed by God in his word Note here that the Elders sit in a publick place vvhere all that vvill may come and be present c. or thus Tell the Congregation of Elders not hindring or infringing any right or libertie of the brethren these come both to one end being rightly understood And about these things haue ben alledged these the like Scriptures Mat. 18 17. cōpared with Mat. 5 22. Deu. 21 18-20 Num. 35 12 24.25 with Deu. 19 11-18 Iosh 20 4-6 1 Sam. 2 25. Psal 82 1. Prov. 26 26. in the LXX compared with the Original Deut. 1 9-17 and 16 18. and 17 9-12 and 25 7 8 9 with Ruth 4 1-11 2 Chron. 19 5-11 Act. 6 11-13 and 20 17 18. Rom. 12 4-8 Luk. 12 42. 1 Cor. 4 1 2. and 5. chap. with Lev. 20 11. and Deut. 17 4-7 1 Cor. 6 1-5 12 28. 1 Thes 5 12-14 1 Tim. 3 5. and 5 17-21 Heb. 13 17. 1 Pet. 5 1-4 Secondly vve haue erred in that we haue so understood those vvords Tell the Church if he heare not the Church c. that the partie offending should not vvithout taking consent of the people be admonished by the Elders wherupon to proceed against him And that the sinner vvas not to be excommunicated Viz. the admonition so giuen by the Elders as is afore sayd for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely Touching vvhich vve haue agreed heretofore that vve erred from these Scriptures 2 Chron. 19 8.9.10 and 1 Thes 5 12. compared with Deut. 17 8-12 c. And here agayne it is to be remembred hovv it hath ben shevved that the speaches of telling the Elders and of the casting out of persons for despising the admonition given by the Elders onely are to be understood in respect of ministration and governement committed unto them by Christ and the Church and not so to be taken as to exclude the Church or Christ the head for vvhom they doe administer but that vve should alvvay understand obserue these things according as in Israel in the due proportion and perpetuall equitie thereof and according to the Scriptures here alledged in this and the other particular aforesayd and therefore not to abridge the brethren of their assent or any right that doth apperteyne unto thē by the vvord of God but to doe all things according to the rules prescribed therein as before hath ben shevved To vvhich ende likevvise it is to be remembred how it hath ben often signified and declared that the povver of the holy things of God given to the Church is properly and primarily Christs secundarily and by communication the Churches instrumentally and ministerially the Officers vvho are the Ministers of Christ and the Church And that thus vve would still be understood As also that thus the admonition being given as is aforesayd may be sayd to be the admonition of Christ of the Church of the Elders in divers respects according as is sayd before Thirdly cōcerning that rule in general we have had this errour among us that it hath ben understood to be a newe rule for the time of the Gospel which Israel had not VVhereabout may be considered cōpared together these and the like Scriptures as followeth Mat. 18.15 with Lev. 19 17. Prov. 25.9.10 Also Mat. 18.16 with Deu. 19.15 and 17.6 Ioh. 8 17. 2 Cor. 13 1. And Mat. 18 17. with Mat. 5.22 Deut. 21.18 19 20. Numb 35 12-30 with Deut. 19 12-17 c. together with the other Scriptures mentioned here before in the other particulars as in them may be seen And for all these things if any can shew us better or othervvise by the vvord of God vve shall God willing be readie to yeeld unto it THus vvas the Churches agreement about these things VVhere note that the first of these about admonition by the Elders was sooner agreed upon there being but fevv in respect that excepted and stood against it vvhen some of the chief of them yeelded unto it The latter about our practise understanding of Mat. 18 17. was verie long debated among us and after much reasoning had thereabout vve vvere often and earnestly urged by the Opposites to giue sentence and come to an yssue about it So in the end vve agreed concerning it as here before is set dovvne VVhich vvhen vve had done they signifyed their dissent and that they could no longer vvalke vvith us practising accordingly And so aftervvard they vvent avvay and left us And this is the very cause of their departing from us vvhatsoever other thing be alledged by them or any other thereabout And this I intreat the Reader vvell to obserue because othervvise reading their foresayd differences and objections in the letter and printed copie vvhereabout they haue busied themselues so much he may take them for causes of their separation which in deed vvere not And whereas thus it pleaseth thē to trouble mens mindes with their positions and intend in the setting of thē dovvne to cause disgrace to this poor Church which they so unjustly haue left as if we had apostated and left the auncient sayth it shall be good for them to try and warrant those their positions and differences as also their separation from us by the touchstone of the vvord of God as now by the answer thereunto given they are occasioned to doe And vvithall let them shew out of the Scripture hovv it can be vvarranted that a minister vvho hath not himself received true baptisme may administer the Lords Supper or that a people not having true baptisme may receive the Lords supper as these haue done seeing themselues deny the baptisme of the Church of Rome By this opiniō the Martyrs of later yeeres had not true baptisme c. so consequently of other Churches in Apostasie to be true baptisme If the example of Christ be considered vvho first instituted and ministred the Lords supper himself he had received true baptisme before Mat. 3 16. with 26.26.27.28 The like may be observed about his Apostles namely about Paul vvho vvas first baptised afore he received or administred the Lords supper Act. 9.18 with 20.11 and so in others from time to time By vvhich themselues may perceiue vvhat a continuall profanation of Gods holy things is among them that so minister or receiue not having true baptisme and the Reader may discerne hovv needfull it had ben for them better to haue thought of their positions and objections