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A68554 A brief censure vppon two bookes written in answere to M. Edmonde Campions offer of disputation; Briefe censure uppon two bookes written in answere to M. Edmonde Campions offer of disputation. Parsons, Robert, 1546-1610. 1581 (1581) STC 19393; ESTC S106078 31,137 90

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the virgins which were rauished by vyolence in the Primatiue Church did it were no sinne Lastly he should haue added done wittingly for although Iacob laye with Lya which was not his wife yet because he knew it not but thought her to be Rachel his wyfe he sinned not Soe that the perfect definition of sinne is not that which Monhemius did put down and the Protestantes folow but rather that which Iesuites together with S. Austen and other learned Fathers haue set doune to wit Sinne is a humane acte voluntarilye and wittingly commited against the law of God And this is to be vnderstood of actual sinne properly But now how doth M. Charke ouerthrow this doctrine forsooth thus Contrarye to this saythe he is the woord of God 1. Iohn 3. the transgression of the lawe is sinne You séeme to haue made a vowe M. Charke not to deale playnlye in anye one thing Can you not aledge one litle sentence without falsifyinge The woords of S. Iohn are these Euerie one that sinneth committeth iniquitie and sinne is iniquitie Or as you will perhapps séeme to enforce it out of the gréeke woorde Anomia Sinne is transgression of the law But why haue you fraudulently turned it backward you knew well the force of transposition out of Sophistrie that it changeth all the meaning of the sentence For if I saye Euerie man is a liuing creature it is true but if I turne it backward and saye Euerie lyuinge crature is a man it is false Soe these woordes as S. Iohn vttereth them are most true Euerie sinne is iniquitie or transgression of the law but as you vtter them they are false to wit That euerie iniquitie or transgression of the lawe be it neuer soe little or donne without ether consent or knowledge or by a madd mā or brute beast should be properlye a mortal sinne Soe that this firste blasphemye of the Iesuites commeth not to be soe haynous as you would make it but rather to confound your ignorance which vnderstand not soe cléere doctrine but huddle vp matters as M. Campion telleth you alsoe to note your vntruthe in misreporting their woordes and the Scriptures against them And of this first depend the other two that folow 2. You report the Iesuites to saye Concupiscence remayning in the regenerate although it be against the law of God yet is it not sinne properlye in it selfe or of his owne nature Cens. fol. 38. You wil néedes helpe the Iesuites out with that which maketh for your purpose Wher finde you in them the wordes Although it be against the lawe of God They saye that albeit this Concupiscence doe sturre or moue a man some times to doe things whiche are repugnant to the lawe of God yet if no consent of harte be yelded vnto it it reacheth not to the nature of a mortal sinne woorthye of eternal damnation And albeit S. Paul doe some times cal it sinne yet meaneth he not properlye but by a figure wherby the name of the cause is often tymes atributed to the effect as the latine spéeche is called the latine Tongue because spéeche is the effect of the tongue Soe Concupiscence being the effect of original sinne is called some times sinne but not properly but only figuratiuely as also S. Paul calleth Christ him selfe Sinne because he was the sacrifice for sinne And all this is S. Austen his note whose playne woords in the same place are Concupiscence is not sinne in the regenerate if consēt be not yelded vnto her for the accomplishing of vnlawfull woorkes The same teacheth not only S. Augustine in dyuers other places but also all other Fathers of the Primatiue Church as Nazianzenus orat de S. Lana Pacianus orat de bap Clemens Alexandrinus Li. 1. Pedago cap. 6. Cyprian ser. de lot pedū et Li. 2. ep 2. Ambro. Li. 1. de vocat gentiū capit 5. Soe that al these good Fathers are partakers with the Iesuites of this blasphemie which you enforce vppon them But how doe you proue it to be blasphemie marie because Christ saythe Whosoeuer shall see a woman to luste after her he hath alredye committed adulterie with her in his harte But are you soe ignorant M. Charke doe you not sée that Christ by adding the woords in his harte meaneth onlye of him which geueth consent of harte to his luste and concupiscence and would put it in execution if he had tyme and place and abilitie but this is your common alleaging of Scripture 3. You reporte the Iesuites to saye That the first motions of lust are without hurt of sinne Cens. 54. 89. It is most true and playne as they deliuer it but you by clipping their woords make euerie thing to séeme a paradoxe They saye the first motions of luste if they come of natural instinct only without anye cause geuen by vs are no sinnes so longe as we geue no consent of hart vnto them And the reason is because it lyeth not in vs they being natural to prohibit them to come no more then it dothe to prohibit our pulse from beating And therfore séeing no sinne can be cōmitted without our will and consent of hart as I haue shewed before these first motions can be no more sinnes in vs then they are in beastes for the like reason Nether is the ten the commaundement alleaged by you for the contrarie doctrine to wit Thou shalt not couet anye waye repugnant to this For this commaundement forbiddeth consent to these motions and not the verie motions which are not in oure power as the Scripture it selfe signifieth when it saythe This commaundement which I doe geue the this daye is not aboue thee And as S. Austen learnedlye prouethe out of an other place of scripture wher this commaundement is expounded to wit Goe not after thy concupiscence That is consente not to them or followe them not 4. You reporte the Iesuites to say The holye Scripture is a doctrine vnperfecte maymed lame not contayning all thinges necessarie to fayth and saluation Cen. fo 220. You are tooe shameles M. Charke in setting for the these for the Iesuites woordes Lett anye man read the place and he shall finde noe such thing but rather in contrarie manner the holy Scripture with reuerente woordes most highlye commended Notwithstanding they reprehend in that place Monhemius for sayinge that nothing is to be receaued or beleued but that whiche is expreslye founde in the Scripture For reproofe of which heresie they geue examples of manie thinges which bothe we and our aduersaries also doe beleue which neuerthelese are not set downe expres●ye in the Scripturs although perhaps ●educed therof As the perpetuall virginitye of our Ladye after her childe-birth two natures and two willes in Christe the procéedinge of the holye Ghost equally from the Father and the Sonne with out generation the vnion of the worde vnto the nature of mā and not vnto the personne That
actions bothe of God and man and al creatures in the world by likning them to some dishonest or ridiculous thing or other whiche a lewde mans inuētion may find out as this apostata hath done But dothe he charge anye one of the Iesuites in soe manye yeares as he saythe he liued in diuers places with them with any one acte of dishonestie or disorder of lyfe which he might haue done manye if he had liued amongest your ministers soe long Or dothe he improue by learning anie one poynte of their doctrine noe not one but rather vttereth that of their good discipline and orderly life in continual meditation of heauenly thinges with subduing the appetites of their fleshe as maye shame you and your loose ministerie I will put downe his owne wordes translated by you which God enforced him to let faule to his owne confusion and to the iustrifiinge of their honestie The Iesuites sayeth he doe adde vnto their earnest meditations the great toyle of studie also c. And from the time that a man geueth him selfe to such meditations he departeth farre away from al seruice and cherishinge of the body He abandonethe the societye of the fleshe to whippinges and other voluntarye punishmentes of the body He pressethe and beatethe doune pleasure as a blot of shame and as our 18. rule doth command he acknowledgeth the image of Christ in euery one of his spiritual brethren As for riches honor and al thinges which he worlde esteemeth most excellent they contemne them and make none accompt of them These are his wordes M. Charke translated by your selfe the which me thinke contayne prayse ynough especially cominge out of the mouth of a professed enemie which would not report their lyfe to the best yet I doubte lest your enemies shall neuer be able to charge you iustiy with the lyke things Thirdly and lastely I answere to this matter that in this kinde of argument we could easely represse you with many for one of these examples in learned and profounde men of your religion which by the grace of God returne dayly to the Catholicke fayth agayne and that not vpon a fancie as this Apostata left it but vppon great reasons and inuincible proofes which after long studye and toyle they haue founde to stand with the same But for examples sake I wil here recounte onely two both of them later then the running out of this Apostata and both which are exstant in print of men that were many yeares ministers and preachers of your religion The first was called Nicolaus Xylander Borussus who yéeldeth these causes folowinge of his conuersion which I haue onelye touched in general but the Reader may sée them more at large set doune and proued by him selfe in his booke for this purpose 1. His first reason is because he hathe found that the Catholiques haue endured these 15. hundreth years in concorde of one doctrine he recounteth vp 16. distincte Sectes spronge of Luther within these 60. yeares 2. For that the Catholiques can bring their succession of Bishopes one after another from Christ his time vnto ours which the Fathers say to be an inuincible demnostration of the true Churche But the contrarye side bring none at al. 3. The infinite miracles which haue bene in the Catholyque Churche the which we must ether beleue or discredit al antiquitie which reporte them 4. The authoritie of the vniuersal visible Catholique Churche the which hath deliuered vnto vs the Scriptures them selues and haue triumphed ouer soe manye enemies and heresies which from tyme to tyme haue assalted her Whose authoritie was soe great with S. Austen that he would not haue beleued the Gospel but only vppon her authorytie 5. The great holynes of infinite mē of that Church as S. Anthonie Hilarion Basil Austen Benedict Gregorie Bernard Dominic Frauncis and the like which al were monkes and fryers and professed men of that religion and yet noe doubte are sainctes in heauen which cannot be if they liued in error 6. The reuerent spéeche of Catholique writers and the rayling balsphemous and dishonest spéeche to be found in the writinges of the other side 7. The ordinarye lyinge and fraudulent dealing of Protestantes neuer almost reportinge the opinions of Catholiques trulye but faininge them to say y e which they neuer say nor thinke 8. For that Protestantes estéeme al their Ancestors to be damned and doe breake their wils and ordinaunces by conuerting to propha●● vses thos reue news and liuings which they assigned to the seruice of God THE Seconde is called Sebastianus Flaschius whoe besides the reasons which the other hath geuen for I omit them which haue bene touched before he yealdethe these reasons of his conuersion 1. For that he hathe founde the Catholiques to teache quite contrarye to that which cōmonlye their aduersaryes doe reporte of them 2. For that he hath found by Luthers bookes that he was moued onlye of enuye to write first against the Catholyque Churche 3. For that he hath found in Luthers writings so great dishonestie and scurrilitye of spéeche as might shame anye harlote to reade which could not come frō a man inspired with the holy Ghost 4. For that the Protestantes doe reiect easily any booke or péece of Scripture which maketh against them and that which they cannot denye he hathe proued that they corrupte it and that they estéeme noe more of Councels and Fathers then of the Turkes Alcoran 5. For that he hath found by reading of ancient histories and Fathers of the primatiue Church that the most of all their newe opinions are ould heresies condemned expressely and by name in the heretikes of the primatiue Church 6. For that he hathe founde Luther to hould manye manifest contrarieties in his woorkes 7. For that Luther séemeth to haue beleued in nothing not being ashamed to saye that he had more confidence in his Katherin Bore and in his Philipe then in Christ. 8. For that he hath found them by experience to be parshall and to exaggerate euerye litle thing that they can find amisse in the liues of Catholiques althoughe amongest them selues they liue most viciouslye especiallye in the sinne of the fleshe For albeit they haue wiues of their owne yet doe they in Germanie according to Luthers doctrine vse their maydes at their pleasure and more then this the ministers vse commutation of wiues amongest them selues and a preacher of no smal account would nedes enforce this man to change wiues with him And many other such thinges whiche he proued amongest them he saythe that verye shame letted him to reporte them FINIS The effecte of M. Hanmers booke The effecte of M. Charke his booke The first part Iesuites noe Secte 1. Reg. 17. 4. Reg. 1. 4. Dan. 1. Marc. 1. The name of Iesuites In psal 132. lib. 11. hist. ca. 3. Li. 3. con lit Petil. ca. 40 Bookes written in the cōmendation of monkes and fryers Luc. 9. Ioh. 12. Math. 19. The true lyfe of Iesuites M. Hanmers notorious lye Vide Iaco. Payuam li. 1. de ortho explicat Ignatius the beginner of the Iesuites Vide Iaco. Payuam li. 1. orthodo explicat Pet. Maffeum in vita Ignatij de Loyola Luther beginner of the new Ghospel Vide Ioan. Cocle. in vi Lutheri Lindā li. de fug ido ca. 8. 9. Luthers doctrine Lib. de fug idolis ca. 8. Li. de miss angul pag. 228. to 7. li. de missa priua Hoss li. 1. de heres Claudi de Sainct li. de reb eucha Lindā li. de fug id ca. 8. Luth. ep ad Argenti epist. ad Io. Har. Bucer ep ad Luth. A definition of Sinne. Gen. 29. Aug. li. 3. de lib. arb cap. 19. Transposition in alledginge of Scripture Concupisence noe synne Rom. 7. Rom. 8. Li. de Nup. conc ca. 23. 25. li. 1. con ep 2. Pelag. ca. 13. et li. 1. Re tract ca. 15. Math. 5. First motions noe synne Exo. 20. Deu. 30. Li. de nupt et concupis capit 23. Eccl. 18. All things not expressed in Scriptures Thinges beleeued whiche ar not in Scripture Colos. 4. Obiection 2. Timo. 3. Profitable Necessarye Parts of scripture loste Addinge to Scripture Deut. 4. Non addetis ad verbū c Deut. 18. The Scripture may be wrested to an euill sence Nu. 21. Ioh. 3. Math. 25. Psal. 18. The readinge of Scripture 1. Tim. 4. Luc. 2. Math. 22. Deut. 2. Faythe and woorkes Rom. 11. Faythe and hope Heb. 6. Rom. 5. Luc. 10. Faythe grounded onlye vppon the word of God Hope hathe doubte in it Heb. 6. Rom. 5. 1. Pet. 1. Phil. 2. Eccle. 9. Inuocation of Saintes Esa. 63. Ieron in ca. 63. Esa. Math. 25. Hoc facite Traditions Two kinde of traditions 2. Thes. 2. Marc. 7. Three kyndes of Rabbinical expositions of the Law Worshippe of Creatures 2. Cor. 6. Act. 5. 7. Exod. 25. Num. 21. Ioh. 3. Psal. 45. Phil. 2. Aug. li. 3. de Trin. cap. 9 10. M. Charke his lacke of modestye M. Charke his zeale Lyinge for the game Newes from Rome printed by 10. Charlewoode Ed. Whyte The 2. parte M. Charke his conclusion Religion standeth with temporall obedience Rom. 13. Tit. 3. 1. Pet. 2. Vide Apolo duas Ius●ni mart A bad argument Wiclif li. 4. Trial. ca. 3. Concil Cō sessi 8. Luther in Bulla Leō 10. Caluin li. 3. inst cap. 19. li. 4. cap. 10. The third part Distinctions Epi. Iudae Arist. in Elench Libertye of pen. Proofes in disputation Councels Fathers and stories Theod. li. 1. hist. ca. 8. Syno Constan Damas. here 99. Philosophie Note this reason Flying onely to Scripture condemned as heretical The 4. Parte Aug. ep 137 ad ple. Hip. Psal. 68. Luc. 16. The Iesuites lyfe by the enemies confession Great labour Deuine meditations Chastising the fleshe Perfect charitye Contempte of riches and honour Causae motiuae N. Xilandri īpres sae Ingolsta dij 1579. Irē li. 3. ca. 3. Optat. li. 2. cōtr Donat Aug. ep 165. Professio Catholica M. Seb. Flas chij impres Colo. 1580. Li. de cap● Bab. eth 〈◊〉 Pap. Li. cōt Pap. et in sermo conuiualib Vide Sand. de visib mō cap. 57. Fabius de ātilogijs Lut Serm. conuiu et tit de prophet et tit de oper Dei Ser. de matrimo