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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A34950	A journey into the country being a dialogue between an English Protestant physitian and an English papist : wherein the proper state of the popish controversy is discoursed : with reference (only) to the government of England in church and state, in some answer to Peter Walsh, and pursuant to the directions of a person of honor.	Creamer, Charles, b. 1632?	1675 (1675)	Wing C6867; ESTC R24786	31,884	48

better then your excommunicated Fryar can give Pap. I 'le tell you since you and I parted I was thinking of you and of your profession and wondred that you stuck so long on Religion since you are counted Atheists Phy. Perhaps some may count us so for looking into natural Causes and appointing natural Remedies perhaps the Vulgar may count us so because we seldom go to Church the reason of which is manifest from the urgency of our Concerns being on life and death and not to be neglected Pap. Yes truly I have heard the Urgencies are often so great and so many that a man is appointed to come frequently into the Church to call out the Doctor without cause and so he cheats God himself and the whole Congregation Phy. What some men may do I know not this I am sure the worst of us all cheats not so much as the best of your perswasion Pap. I believe I know the reason why some Physitians are so angry with our Religion Phy. I beseech you why are Physitians angry with your Religion more then others while even now they had none Pap. Let their Religion be what it will they will pretend any Religion rather then ours for Pope Greg. 15. anno 1622. prohibited Catholicks to use heretical Physitians Phy. If you have heard of a Book called Religio Medici you will there find good Religion and the Exterior part thereof such as may deserve kindness from a Puritan Papist yet containing himself within the just bounds of an English Protestant Pap. It is that very Book came even now into my mind and I remember he sayes there that he thanked God he did not live in the time of Christ and his Apostles And a witty Animadverter a Roman Catholick I will warrant him said it might be because his practice would have been spoyl'd for Christ and his Apostles cured gratis and On my Conscience that makes your Profession so angry with our Religion Phy. Pray are Papists so charitable as to cure for nothing I 'me sure I know some Physitians of that perswasion who take as much money as they can get Pap. All Catholicks are not of one mind but I remember you talk'd much of your Records and I 'me sure we have better Records of more good done by the Physick of the Church then by the Physicks of your Colledge and Universities Phy. The Physick of the Church I thought England had now been Master of all the Methods and Systems of Physick extant yet among them I have not met with the Physick of the Church Pap. It is a curing after the Hermitical way Phy. Hermetical I have read Hermes Trismegistus that excellent Philosopher and I think am acquainted with all Medicines and Recipe's Hermetical Empirical and Chymical Pap. Sir you mistake me I confess that the Science of Physick in all Rules of Art is more refined in England then was ever before but I say not Hermetical but Hermitical Phy. Pray unfold your self Pap. Why there 's it now The unfolding of this Notion Hermitical will make you understand the Physick of the Church Phy. Oh! I think I take it now You mean some found out in the Cloysters which you call Church Physick Pap. I do so and the use of the Physick would break Doctors Apothecaries and Chirurgeons Phy. Pray tell 's some of it Pap. Some of it why I could entertain you from hence to London with it Phy. Come faith we have been serious long enough now make me merry Pap. Hold ye there I 'me better appointed then to sport with things sacred yet what I shall tell you may occasion a religious mirth were you rightly disposed Phy. Sir I can demean my self answerable to any Entertainment and shall frame my self to your Conversation pray begin Pap. Sir I can tell you how to cure Child-bed Griefs by praying to St. Marquerite how St. Marus Bishop of Tryers cures Palseys and Convulsions St. Nicholas cures dangers at Sea St. Venisa Green-sicknesses and Womens Diseases St. Lucy Unchastity and which is remarkable St. Cosma and St. Damian both Physitians cure all Diseases gratis and purely upon humble request And St. Appollonia being pray'd unto cures the Tooth-ach which never a Doctor can do and I doubt not but when St. Austin said he was cured of the Tooth-ach by prayers it was by praying to this Saint And the Arm of St. David cures the Plague without the help of Doctor Hodge's book And if I should tell you all I could especially of the three Kings of Collen viz. St. Jasper St. Melchior and St. Balthasar you would wonder Phy. I might wonder indeed and so I did when I read the late Book called Reflections on the Romish Devotions and I wondred again and again that rational men in any Age much less in this Age and in this Climate where Learning and Knowledge is so much refined improved and sublimed should so night-mare their Vitalities with a rudis indigestaque moles of ridiculous Trash and suffer themselves to be blind-folded waving their proper Conduct of Reason and following they know not whom they know not how they know not whither especially in their Devotions And therefore Sir you may forbear your Hermitical Dispensatory for I am weary of that and of my Journey too therefore let 's hasten Pap. Sir I could in a short Discourse sufficiently make good the Devotions of our Church to the Saints and enough to convince any rational man Phy. Truly Sir I must confess you may tell a great many pretty Tales that might cozen my thoughts of the badness of the wayes and the uneasiness of my horse may be so far acceptable but my Judgment will be no way moved to think them so much as probably true And Sir the Saints to whom those pretended Miracles are by your Church ascribed are all of antient time and I hear not of any modern Saints that are endowed with such powers So that it should seem your Church has been of late very barren of Saints or else your Saints have been very lazy and I wonder that the Reliques of no late Pope Saints are found Pap. As to that Sir I must confess that these Saints I have mentioned lived and were famous under the Government of the Catholick Bishop of Old Rome and since that the Christian Faith is setled there is no need of extraordinary ways Phy. But you know many of the other were not for great ends but tryals of skill and now is more need to believe then ever But why Old Rome I hope you do not mean Pagan Rome Pap. No I mean old Christian Rome when Christianity was first planted there Phy. You do well to appoint them to Ages so long ago that the truth cannot be inquired into and I will tell you my Conceit how these Fables first came up The Heathens being guilty of Idolatry worshipping stocks stones Images imaginary Deities and Devils the ignorant Christians in those dark times to draw them into the Christian Religion by

A JOURNEY INTO THE COUNTRY BEING A DIALOGUE Between an English PROTESTANT Physitian AND AN English PAPIST WHEREIN The proper State of the Popish Controversy is discoursed With Reference only to the Government of ENGLAND in Church and State In some Answer to Peter Walsh and pursuant to the Directions of a Person of Honor. Papa stupor Mundi non Deus non Homo sed utrumque Gloss in proem Clem. Moscan de Rom. Pont. l. 1. c. 11. LONDON Printed for Henry Brome at the Gun at the West-end of St. Pauls M DC LXXV THE PUBLISHER TO THE READER THIS ensuing Discourse seems to be wrote about the time when by Proclamation Papists were not to reside within ten Miles of London and 't is not yet out of Season nor will be till our Controversies with the Papists be throughly and truly stated after which it cannot be long ere they be ended I see not how English men have to do with the Romish Church or State their Laws Doctrines or Discipline therefore while they have been exercising us with Disputes about those things they had two Ends viz. Either to lead us into some Precipice or to Lap-wing us from the proper tendency of our Enquiries which in truth is our home Concerns and so a Controversy only between English Papists and English Catholicks called Protestants for Distinction with reference to their Prince who governeth by Laws diverse from all the Nations of the World and so is not to be argu'd out of his Right by any Parallel from other Kingdoms But as a Person of Honour hath lately begun so this Author has set forward the proper Contest still meaning between English Papists and English Protestants the latter of whom affirm as follows 1. That the King of England is Emperour and sole Monarch of England and established by a Law diverse from all other Nations 2. That the Church of England has all the Rights of a Patriarchal See from which lies no Appeal to any other Patriarch 3. That all Church Authorities and Jurisdictions with reference to this life and the ends of Government are rightfully derived from the King of England being naturally in him as a mixt Person and Custos utriusque tabulae according to Rom. 13. 4. That he is a Traytor that denyes this or affirms any forreign Prince Prelate or Potentate to have any Jurisdiction in England c. or diminishes the Kings Legal Style 5. There was naturally no difference between Church and State as to Jurisdictions until Christian Monarchs divided Jurisdictions and delegated Civil and Ecclesiastical Persons to take Conusance and judge of Causes separate and those Jurisdictions are called Civil and Ecclesiastical in respect of the Delegates only and not in respect of the Causes whereof they take Conusance and Judge 6. The King hath power naturally within his Dominions by such his delegates respectively to declare what are Articles of Faith according to Scripture and not otherwise and to make and interpret Laws for the Government of Church and State to appoint Forms of Worship and Discipline not against the word of God to add to such Laws Sanctions to punish Offenders against such Laws 7. These Rights and Powers of the King are Inherent in him as Essential Flowers of his Crown as antient as the Crown it self in which his Subjects are so interessed with reference to their Propriety in his personal Government by Original Constitutions as the King cannot by any rightf●l Act he can do grant them away to any Forreign Power Person or Potentate or to others but by way of delegation as to the declarative and executive Part. 8. What ever of these Rights and Powers any King of England has at any time allowed to the Pope has been so allowed against the Fundamental Law of the Land and so was utterly void and not obliging to any Successors Kings of England c. 9. That all Papists denying the Jurisdiction of the Pope here both in Civil and Ecclesiastical matters yet holding Communion with the Church of Rome in matters of worship against our established Laws are grievous Offenders 10. That passive Obedience is no Obedience In as much as true Obedience must be spontaneous intire active and with respect to the Law of Nature antecedent to the Kings Command which injoyns intire Obedience to the Kings lawful Command for the Lords sake not barely for the Command sake 11. That the King cannot dispense with or free the Subject from such natural Obedience but only from the penalty added by and annexed to his Command 12. That the King cannot tolerate here the Exercise of the Popish Worship the same being superstitious and idolatrous and against the Established Laws 13. That no English man whatsoever how far so ever they pretend to differ from or disown the Pope can give reasonable security for the Preservation of the Peace of the Church or State by them unless they swear due Allegiance to the King and by Oath declare his Supremacy in the Church and by that Oath renounce all the Popes Authority whatsoever over them and his Power to dispense with that Oath and that they will be obedient to all the Kings Laws 14. That an English man in Priests Orders from the Church of Rome ●xcommunicated or censur'd by tha● Church and yet holding Communion with that Church i● not to be trusted here although he takes the Oaths above mentioned In as much as he is of no Church being wilfully divided from ours and by Censure divided from the other and so disobedient to all Governors a lawless and perjured Person and so in a present State of Damnation nor is any Romish Priest to be trusted here though he takes the said Oaths in as much as he hath taken a former Oath to the contrary not renounced 15. That since no English understanding Papist doth absent or at any time hath absented from our Communion and Worship out of pure Judgment and Reason But purely by reason of the old inhibition of the Pope in Q. Elizabeth's time for before that they joyn'd with us and were called Church Papists and at the same time they in opposition to our Kings Laws do so firmly yield to that Inhibition and disobey several other Commands of the Pope even in some matters of Faith It 's refer'd to the wisdom of the King with the advice of his said Delegates whether such co 〈…〉 ious Offenders be with any safety to be tolerated or even con●iv'd at here 16. That the Church and Court of Rome are so incorporated together that if Communion with that Church be admitted or tolerated here it must necessarily be introductory of that Courts Vsurpation 17. That there are now great differences of opinion among the English Papists themselves with reference to the Pope And if they were all of the mind with the most moderate Pretenders yet what Security can be given that they will alwayes be so or that they shall be succeeded by others of the same Judgment or is it