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ID	Title	Author	Corrected Date of Publication (TCP Date of Publication)	STC	Words	Pages
A08425	A reproufe, written by Alexander Nowell, of a booke entituled, A proufe of certayne articles in religion denied by M. Iuell, set furth by Thomas Dorman, Bachiler of Diuinitie: and imprinted at Antvverpe by Iohn Latius. Anno. 1564. Set foorth and allowed, according to the Queenes Maiesties iniunctions; Reproufe of a booke entituled, A proufe of certayne articles in religion denied by M. Juell	Nowell, Alexander, 1507?-1602.; Dorman, Thomas, d. 1577? Proufe of certeyne articles in religion, denied by M. Juell.	1565 (1565)	STC 18741; ESTC S113385	180,927	268

the contrary parte S. Cyprian saith The Lorde gaue like and equall authoritie to all his Apostles all the Apostles bee indued with like felowship bothe of honour and power Thus saieth S. Cyprian in his booke intitled De simplicitate praelatorum Of the simplicitis of priestes noting them as double faced prelates that teache or attempt the cōtrary Againe Leo saieth Out of this forme is taken our difference of Bishoppes that in euery Prouince one bee chief and of moste authoritie and the bishop of greater cities to haue greater care and consequētly that he who sitteth in Peters chaire should haue charge be heade of the vniuersall Churche Thus saieth Leo and thus he saieth because he hymself would be Lorde and head ouer all the churche S. Cyprian saieth Euery bishop hath his seuerall portiō of Christes flocke to rule and gouerne for the which he must geue an accōpt vnto the Lorde And that those who are vnder the charge of the bishop of one countrey maie not appeale to a bishop of an other nor the cause determined by one Bishop maie be called in question before an other for that the authoritie of one Bishop is not inferiour to an other nor the authoritie of the bishop of Afrike is lesse then the authoritie of the bishops of Italie or Rome it self for his woordes haue euidentlie that relation and that none thinke the authoritie of one bishop to be lesse then the authoritie of an other bishop but a fewe wicked and desperate men Thus you see how your owne witnesses are at square and there is yea and naie betwéene this your Leo and S. Cypriā in these matters S Hierome agreing with S. Cyprian saith All churches worshippyng one Christ and obseruyng one rule of truthe are equall with the churche of Rome all bishoppes bee the successours of the Apostles and of one priesthoode and of the same merite and dignitie Thus saieth S. Hierome But Leo saith contrary that it was geuen to one to be aboue all the rest that thei who be appoincted in greater diocesses or cities haue more care and authoritie and that th' onely see of Peter hath charge of the vniuersall Churche is heade therof Thus saith Leo. S. Hierome saith The lesse diocesse or toune or the poorer estate maketh not the bishop lower or lesse in authoritie the greater prouince the greater citie the greater riches make not a Bishop greater in authoritie And though Leo doo make neuer so muche of Rome and set it aboue the vniuersall Churche S. Hierome saith Th' authoritie of the vniuersall churche is greater then the authoritie of the churche of Rome as the worlde is greater then the citie of Rome And he saith further What dooest thou allege me the vse of the one citie of Rome for a lawe of the churche wherof riseth presumption of a fewe against all men I thinke y e fire and water are not of more contrary nature then are S. Cyprian and S. Hierome contrarie to that epistle alleged by M. Dorman as Leo the Popes epistle nor that any witnesses brought againste a man by his aduersarie euer haue more directlie testified againste him then these twoo witnesses S. Cyprian and sainct Hierome brought in by D. Hardyng and M. Dorman for them dooe testifie againste them euen in the verie places by themselues alleged besides their consonancie with themselues in al other places and the consent of S. Augustine and twoo hundreth and moe Bishops agrecyng with them againste this Leo. What should one iudge of these mē bringyng in together three witnesses of the whiche twoo are moste directlie againste them and againste the thirde also who alone seemeth to make with them that thirde as in his owne cause to bee suspected and further to bee doubted also whether it bee he in deede or an other vnder his name and suche as he is the woordes of his testimonie either manifestlie falsified or els at the least in diuers copies beyng not onely diuers but cleane contrarie as hauyng in one copie it is so in an other if M. Dorman slepte not it is not so And yet bothe these impossible bothe to bee true bee one mannes testimonie of one and the same matter and in one and the same place also Were these menne so blinde that thei did not see this or so shamelesse that seyng and knowyng thei durst yet allege suche witnesses for them So blind bussardes thei tooke all menne in the worlde sauyng themselues to bee Surelie me thinketh it to bee an harde case and a silie shamelesse shifte for menne to bee driuen to allege those authours and to bring those witnesses for them whose testimonies dooe thus conuicte them and quite ouerthrowe their cause and withall shame them vtterlie And verie miserable is the Pope and Poperie being driuen now at the laste to the patrocinie of suche proctours who openyng and bewraiyng the weakenesse of the groundes and foundations thereof so long tyme heretofore by ignoraunce of the worlde iudged sure will themselues bryng all Poperie beyng alreadie of it self ruinous to speedie and vtter destruction For the whiche also all godlie and suche as loue the truthe haue greate cause to geue God greate and hartie thankes for that these causes as desperate beyng forsaken of almoste all learned graue men M. Dorman with suche other as he is haue thus taken them in hande and that suche leude matters haue founde at the proctours and patrons moste méete for them Dorman Fol. 6. Hetherto haue you harde good readers beside the experience that we haue of ciuile policie and worldlie gouernemente the opinions also of saincte Cyprian sainct Hierome and holie Leo all three agreing in one that there must nedes be one iudge in Christes church in his steede that the health of the churche dependeth vpon the authoritie of the chief Prieste that if his authoritie bee not aboue all the reste there will so many Schismes breake in vpon vs as there bee Priestes that for the auoidyng of that mischiefe there was one chosen euen amongest the Apostles to gouerne the reste Last of all that that vsage in Chris●es churche to haue one head is no newe inuention as some men falslie report but taken from the example of the Apostles thēselues Nowell Hetherto haue you heard good readers how of the experience of ciuile policie and worldlie gouernment wherein euery seuerall countrey citie and companie haue their seuerall Princes rulers and heades maister Dorman would moste l●udely gather that al churches dispersed in all countries cities tounes villages nations peoples and lāguages impossible to be knowē and more impossible to be gouerned but of Christ onely the onely head of that vniuersalitie should haue one onely heade here in earth You haue hearde also how ignorantlie if he did not vnderstand how shamelesly if he did vnderstande he hath alleged S. Cyprian and S. Hierome for him beyng bothe in all other places vniuersallie and in the verie speciall places also by

and in persecutiō of the true churche of Christ but who so wil read that 70. epistle of Basill shall finde it otherwise We neither worship our selues nor inforce any other to worship the Image that Basil treateth of in that 70 epistle wee are no Idolaters nor teache false doctrine we haue not many goddes lesse and greater we abate nothyng as did the Arrians but moste to our power set foorth the glorie and deitie of Christ Let the Papistes see that these poinctes touche not thēselues rather We doo not sequester the holie ghost from the glorious Trinitie as did those Arrians in saincte Basils tyme whose mischief and their owne miserie he in this epistle doeth deplore and bewaile Wherefore his saiynges in that Epistle apperte●ne nethyng to vs who are nothyng guiltie of those crimes and heresies but they are brought in by dreaming M. Dorman without any cause and biside all purpose sauyng onely that in readyng Hosius he founde this place alledged thought good to folowe him therein and to translate it into his booke But now touchyng our verie case why did not these bishops of the Easte write their humble petition for helpe in their miseries seuerallie to the bishoppe of Rome as heade of all the churche but doo write to all the bishops of Fraunce and Italie indifferently without any mention of the bishop of Rome at al So farre of is it that thei made any speciall mention of hym as the chief or heade ouer all the churche yea placyng also the bishops of Fraunce before the Italian bishoppes though M. Dorman doo craftilie dissemble the same and callyng them altogether brethren and felowes in the ministerie whiche thei would neuer haue dooen had thei had this opinion of his supremacie that maister Dorman and other Papistes doo now defende and mainteine But in the saied 70. epistle the saied East Bishops whiche doo not once speake of the Pope doo praie the Frenche and Italian bishops to make hūble sute to the Emperour that he by his authoritie would represse their enemies the Arriās and releue their miseries whiche maketh rather for the Emperour his supremacie in the churche then for the bishops of Rome Now where M. Dorman speaketh of persecution as he did a little before of our moste cruell practise I referre it to the iudgement of all the worlde whether our aduersaries or wee bee more cruell persecutours and whether haue suffered more persecution thei or wee and whether thei or we doo come more nere to that example of persecution by S. Basill in this 70. epistle described I praie thee good reader iudge indifferently First S. Basill sheweth that the persecutiō was moste horrible cruell and bloudie suche as was impossible to be expressed with woordes and that thieues murtherers and other offenders were more reasonablie and mercifullie dealte with then godlie men were in that persecution that thei were apprehended in the night and neither knowyng their accusers nor cōuicted of any crime were banished or put to death And that there was continuall mournyng weepyng and sighyng euery where that because the persecutours had the name of Christians thei would not suffer suche as thei put to cruell death to haue the names of martyres and that neither age and a hoare white heade neither godlines and a life vertuouslie ledde had any reuerence with the persecutours He sheweth that the persecutors were riche wealthie but thei who were persecuted were poore menne and for their pouertie contemned not hauyng libertie to speake He calleth this horrible persecution fire by a figure but the persecution that wee suffer is by fire in deede by the whiche our aduersaries trie vs and sifte vs into ashes so that saincte Paules prophecie of many who in the laste daies should be tried by fire is in deede and without figure accōplished in vs. Consider I praie you good readers these circumstances of moste extreame crueltie in those persecutours whom S. Basill speaketh of and iudge whether we or our aduersaries doo the like and withall consider how reasonablie M. Dorman resembleth vs to the saied persecutours and themselues to them that were so persecuted Now where he goeth aboute to burthen vs with enuie of Churches either pulled doune or altered to other vse and of their altars destroied muche like as the rebelles did burthen Henrie the eight in the. 28. yere of his raigne we make this answere Truthe it is that the foundations of Abbeis and Chauntries Pro redemptione animarum fundatorum suorum progenitorum ipsorum c. For the redemption of the soules of their foundours and their progenitours soules c. as in the saied foundations appereth more at large were so vnsure and weake or rather wicked that thei could no longer beare suche huge superstructions and buildynges as were laied vpon them For the Idolatrie supersticion hypocrisic and wickednesse of the Monkes Nunnes and Priestes themselues were growen so greate and so heauie now that no foundacions though sure and good were hable any longer to beare and abide them Let the horrible historie of their darke dreadfull and moste diuellishe dooynges notified to kyng Henrie the eight and after to the Parliament house by the reporte of the visitours retournyng from their visitacion of Abbaies and the Monkes Nunnes themselues in their owne confessions subscribed with their owne handes bee a proofe thereof whiche beyng regestered in a blacke booke might more iustlie bee called doumes daie then any recorde this daie remainyng in Englande reuealyng suche matter as thei had thought should haue remained hidde vnto the greate daie of reuelation of all secreates if euer thei looked for it Now truly the monstrous liues of Monkes Friers and Nunnes haue destroied their Monasteries and Churches and not wée Concernyng their foundations so contrarie to the merites of Christ our sauiour that is come to passe of thē that our sauiour hymself foreshewed Omnis plantatatio c. Euery plantacion not planted by my heauēly father shal be plucked vp by the rootes Touchyng their impietie towardes God and wickednesse of life that is fulfilled that was foreshewed by the Prophetes Esaie and Ieremie vpon Babilon and Hierusalem and consequently vpon all wicked cities and places where Gods lawe shall likewise bée transgressed where like Idolatrie like fornication bodily and ghostlie shalbée committed where shalbée founde like foolishenesse ignoraunce and blindnesse of the Pastours heades and rulers that is to saie that their busldynges shalbée made heapes of stones that brambles briers shall growe where their pleasaunte lodgynges were that Oules night scritches and Dragons shall make their neastes and houle and seritche where the voyce of bankettyng and ioye was wonte to bee heard and that their houses shall neuer bee builded againe And that when menne shall passe by and saie why hath the Lorde thus dooen to this greate Citie to these goodlie Abbeies Nunries and Fratries Answere shal bee made for that

haue raigned but not by me thei haue been Princes and I haue not knowen them And if suche seueral testimonies of doctours maie not serus vs if we for further proufe bring a number of doctours ioinctly agreyng together forbiddyng bishops suche tyrannicall dominion ouer the churche of God as did saincte Cyprian in the Councell of Carthage with the allowance of the whole Councell then and with the approbation of saincte Augustine afterwarde and an other whole Councell also The woordes spoken by saincte Cyprian in the saied Councell and by so many Bishops and Doctours allowed are these Nemo nostrum episcopum se episcoporum constituit aut tyrannico terrore ad obsequendi necessitatē collegas suos adigit quando habeat omnis episcopus pro licentia libeitatis potestatis suae arbitrium proprium tanquàm iudicari ab alio nō possit cum necipse possit alterum iudicare That is to say None of vs maketh hymself Bishop ouer Bishops or doeth by tyrannicall feare force his felowe Bishops to the necessitie of obeiyng seyng euery Bishop hath for his libertie power his free iudgement as he who can not be iudged of an other neither can himself iudge an other Bishop Thus farre saincte Cyprian and saincte Augustine Wee shall profite I saie no more by the allegations of Doctours yea or whole Councelles thā by the allegation of the Scriptures themself againste the Popes saiynges or doynges what so euer thei bee Neither the texte of the scriptures nor the interpretation of Doctours nor iudgementes of Councelles can haue any credite againste hym For as Pighius the principall Doctour of the Popes part saieth In concilijs vniuersalibus vniuersis haud ferè aliud factum est quàm vt conuenientes ex toto orbe episcopi praeiudicatam iam Apostolicae sedis vnanimi consensu amplexarentur sequerentur sententiam nec in eis definitum aliquid quod non iam praeiudicatum antè definitumque esset à sede Apostolica That is to saie In all generall Councelles for the moste parte nothyng els is doen but that Bishops comyng together out of all partes of the worlde should embrace and folowe with agreable consent the foreiudged and afore determined sentence of the Apostolike see and that nothyng was defined in suche generall Councelles the whiche was not before defined and foreiudged by the Apostolike see Thus farre Pighius who also affirmeth in the same place that the onely iudgement of this one see is more sure then the iudgement of an vniuersall Coūcell of the whole worlde Wherby it maie well be vnderstāded what labour and coste euen by the Papistes themselues is loste and how in vaine their Bishoppes take suche paine to come to Councelles out of all partes of Christendome leauyng their cures vncared for and vnlooked tos and that sometyme a sorte of yeres together as of late thei haue doen in the laste Tridentine councell onelie to determine thynges alreadie determined and that therefore thei should like wise men keepe themselues at h●me and spare suche trauell and coste and onely herken what is pronounced out of that sacred mouth of the Pope at Rome and it to obeye absolutely And the same Pighius afterward in an other place saieth expresly Huic sedi authoritas componendi definiendi exortas i domo ecclesiastica vniuersas questiones controuersias ab eodem Christo est data tibi verò illius definitionibus iudicijs absque vlla discussione est imposita obsequendi necessitas That is to saie The authoritie of orderyng definyng and determinyng of all questions and controuersies risen in the Churche is geuen by Christe to this see of Rome and vpon thee is laied a necessitie of obeiyng all definitions and determinations of the saied see without any examinyng or discussing of y e same These be Pighius woordes also No meruaile therefore if you doo well cōsider the premisses that M. Dorman calleth the Popes supremacie the fundation of al. Naie it is the fundation superstruction batilmentes garnishinges and all together it is all and all in all For were this one article of the Popes supremacie with the appurtenaūces as I haue said once obteined you neede not to trauell in writyng any more you neede not to bryng any proufes out of the scriptures Doctours or Councelles for you or againste vs any more for it were concluded at once that you be the Catholikes who doo acknowledge the necessitie of obeiyng the voice the determinations and definitions of that high Prieste without whattes or whies without discussyng or examinyng of them by your selues or with others and that we bee the heretikes who doo not obeye his voice beyng against Goddes voice but are so bolde to examine how his voices doo agree with Gods voice And therefore are we worthie to dye moste cruell death due to suche false heretiques Graunte this one proposition of the Popes supremacie with the appurtenaunces I saie and by and by all that M. Dorman hath hitherto most leudlie alledged or shall alledge hereafter for the Popes supremacie is to the purpose all lies he hath alreadie made and shall hereafter make for that purpose are truthes And whatsoeuer we saie to the contrarie what scriptures what Doctours what Councelles so euer we bryng all is to no purpose nor of any credite for he alone is iudge whose the cause is he alone as your greate Doctour Pighius saieth is more to be beleued then a generall Councell of the whole worlde assembled And therefore hath M. Dorman doen like a wise manne to entreate first of the Popes supremacie and in the treatie thereof to spende more paper ynke more oile and labour as thei saie yea twise as muche as he hath doen in the other three principall matters though otherwise the greatest of all other as touching euen the verie Masse it self whiche as it hath hitherto susteined the Pope and all his Cleargie so if the Pope doo not now by his supremacie and irrefragable authoritie susteined by maister Dorman like a friende at néede susteine the Masse againe it maie come to passe that bathe Pope and Masse will come to nought shortly Now foloweth the diuision of M. Dormās treatie Dorman fol. 4. In the handlyng whereof I purpose God willyng to take this order Firste before I come to the principall poincte that lieth in question betwene vs whiche is of the bishop of Romes supremacie to proue to you by moste plain and euident reasons that the Churche of Christe here militante in earth muste of necessitie for diuerse and sondrie vrgent causes haue one chief heade and ruler vnder Christe to rule and gouerne the same Secondarily that that one heade muste needes bee a Prieste Thirdlie so last of al that of all priestes the bishop of Rome is he whiche must supplie that place and that for so that is head ruler of the churche he hath byn of the auncient coūcels olde fathers within the first sixe

witnesses sainct Cyprian and sainct Hierome brought in by hymself for the proofe of his parte and that whiche is more I will prooue it by the verie same places of sainct Cyprian and sainct Hierome whiche are by Doctour Hardyng and maister Dorman here alleged that is to saie by the thirde epistle of the firste booke of the epistles of sainct Cyprian and by the epistle of sainct Hierome to Euagrius And I doubte not but as of his three witnesses brought for hym one is no witnesse but suche as if one would saie aske my self whether I bee a theefe or no so the other twoo witnesses who bee moste woorthie credite shall proue my cause true I truste and maister Dorman a verie liar Wherein I doo thus proceade First I will putte the reader in remembraunce yet once againe of Saincte Cyprians owne woordes before touched written in the same epistle by maister Dorman alleged whiche are these Cum statutum sit omnibus nobis c. whiche maie bee thus translated whereas an order is taken or statute made emongeste vs all and it is also reasonable and right that euery mannes cause be there hearde where the faulte was committed and whereas a portion of the flocke is assigned to euery bishoppe by himself whiche euery one ought to rule and gouerne and must geue an accompte of his doynges to the Lorde these whiche bee vnder our gouernaunce ought not therefore to runne about to witte from one Bishoppe to an other neither to breake the agreable concorde of Bishoppes by their guilefull temeritie or rashnesse but ought there to make answere in their causes where thei maie haue accusers witnesses of their crimes excepte it seeme to a fewe desperate and caste awaie persones that the authoritie of the bishoppes that bee in Afrike is lesse then the authoritie of others whiche Bishoppes haue alreadie geuen iudgement of them their cause is alreadie heard sentence is alreadie pronounced against them neither dooeth it agree to the graue iudgemente of Bishoppes to be blamed of the leuitie of a mouable and inconstant mynde whereas our Lorde dooeth saie Let your speache bee yea yea no no. Thus farre saincte Cyprian M. Dormans owne witnesse euen in the same epistle by hymself alleged And this sentence of saincte Cyprian touchyng the determinyng of controuersies in the places where thei dooe rise and that no appellations shal bee made to any bishop of an other Prouince yea and that namely not to the Bishop of Rome nor that he shall sende any Legates Laterall to heare or determine foraine matters dooeth the whole Carthaginense councell approue and allowe wherein was saincte Augustine Drosius and Prosper with 217. moe learned and godlie Bishoppes assembled as I haue before noted The same sainct Cyprian euer agreyng with hym self in this veritie of the equalitie of al bishops which is the ouerthrowe of the supremacie of one dooeth applie many suche places of the scriptures as are customarelie but moste falsely alleged now a daies by this authour and other aduersaries for the proufe of the popes supremacie ouer all Bishoppes to the declaration of the equall authoritie of euery Bishoppe in his own diocesse as the place of Deuteronomium concernyng the obedience due to the high Prieste out of Numerie of the disobedience of Chore Dathan and Abyron against Aaron out of the Actes of the Apostles touching Saincte Paules woordes I wiste not that he was the high Bishoppe for it is written thou shalt not speake euill to the prince of thy people All these places I saie doeth saincte Cyprian allege for the authoritie of Rogatian an Africane Bishop and againste the disobedience of the saied Rogatians oeacon against his bishop And the same places dooeth sainct Cyprian likewise againe in an other place allege for his owne authoritie beeyng Bishop of Carthage and against the stubbornesse of Pupianus towardes hymself So that saincte Cyprian doeth in all places maintaine the equalitie of bishops and withal ouerthrowe the supremacie of one ouer all directlie againste this place by you as out of Pope Leo alleged But in no place is sainct Cyprian more effectuous and piaine concernyng this matter then in his booke intituled De simplicitate praelatorū where he hath these woordes Dn̄sapostolis oībus post resurrectionem suam parem potestatē tribuit mox Hoc erant vtique caeteri apostoli quod fuit Petrus pari consortio praediti honoris potestatis That is to saie The Lorde after his resurrectiō did geue like orequall power to al his Apostles The other Apostles were the veric same that Peter was beeyng indued with like felowship both of honour and power Thus farre saincte Cyprian who beyng in so many places so directlie againste this vsurped supremacie of one and for the equalitie of all Bishoppes it is to be wondered with what face M. Dorman hath been so bold and busie with S. Cyprian in this his treatie of the popes supremacie Now let vs heare S. Hierome M. Dorman his second witnesse and euen in the same epistle by M. Dorman alleged also Where Saincte Hierome speakyng of the authoritie of Churches and Bishops and makyng thē all equall and none aboue an other hath these woordes Nec altera Romanae vrbis ecclesia altera totius orbis estimanda est c. Wée maie not thinke that the Churche of the citie of Rome is one and the Churche of the whole worlde an other Bothe Fraūce and Britaine now called Englāde Afrike and Persie lande the East countreis and Indie and al barbarous nations woorship one Christe and obserue one rule of truth If you seke for authoritie the worlde is greater then the citie of Rome wheresoeuer any bishoppe is whether he be at Rome or Eugubium at Constantinople or at Rhegium at Alexādria or Tanis he is of the same merite of the same priesthoode The power of riches or basenesse of pouertie maketh not a bishope either higher or lower But thei be al the successors of the Apostles But thou wilte saie how dooe thei at Rome a● the testimonie of the deacon ordein the priest What dooest thou allege to me the custome of one citie what dooest thou chalenge for the lawes of the Churche the vsage of a fewe whereof presumptiō hath risen Thus farre sainct Hierome Vpon the which place Erasmus in his Scholies noteth that Eugubium Rhegium and Tanis were base and little tounes and that sainct Hierome matcheth in paires and couples a poore simple little toune with a noble citie to she we therby that the dignitie of the Bishop is not estéemed by the greatnesse of his diocesse or citie but that all bishops bee equall in office Now let vs compare these twoo sainct Cyprian I saie and saincte Hierome bearyng witnesse with the truthe with Leo onely bearyng witnesse to hymself Leo saieth In the holie Apostles themselues there was a differēce of power and that it was geuen to one to be aboue all the reste On

vnknowen to all the worlde and all menne to liue not onely without explication of doubtfull places of the scripture but without knowledge of any place of the scripture at all and in steede of Gods woorde to haue pampered vp Gods people with their poisoned pappe of Poperie But saieth M. Dorman God did not commaunde any suche conference of scriptures but onelie to resorte to the high Prieste yet I trust M. Dormā is not ignorant what it meaneth that God and our sauiour Christ dooe so earnestlie exhorte all men to the diligent readyng and studie of the scriptures and dooe condemne the ignoraunce or wante of knowledge thereof And where he saieth God hath not commaunded suche conference of the scriptures which yet in effecte he hath commaunded it is happie that he can not shewe where God hath forbidden it which if he could he would not haue failed to haue dooen But seyng M. Dorman setteth so muche by Gods commaundementes and would so faine haue vs leaue the conference of scriptures as not commaunded by God as he thinketh I would he should aduertise the Papistes his felowes that thei would once leaue their Idolatrie to Images with other their superstitions so ofte and expressedlie by God forbidden as to all godlie menne is well knowen Dorman fol. 12. For emongest so many as at all times haue disquieted the Churche what one heretike are thei able to recon ouerthrowen by the scriptures VVas Arrius vāquished by them Naie if you brought to cōuince him this text Pater egovnum sumus my father I are one he would tell you againe that the same Christe that so saied saied also pater meus maior me est my father is greater then I. VVhat had you then wonne at his handes that would tell you that one place of Scripture muste expound an other and that therefore your place must bee expounded by his And if you would wade farder with hym he would interprete your place as he did with the catholikes to be vnderstande of v●itie in will and not in substaunce and bryng you scripture toe although wrested from the true sense that should seeme well to prooue his distinction As when our Sauiour praied vnto his father in this sorte pater sancte serua eos in nomine tuo quos dedisti mihi vt sint vnū sicut et nos kepe thē ô holie father in thy name whom thou haste geuen to me that thei maie be one as we twoo are one Nowell First to M. Dormans demaunde whiche is the pith of all that he saieth in a leafe and more next folowyng I answere the Arrians Anabaptistes and all heretikes without exception were vanquished and ouerthrowen by the Scriptures and that if thei were not vāquished by the scriptures thei were not vanquished at all For what though thei saied thei were not vanquished were thei therefore not vanquished because thei would not cōfesse it Did the Iuishe high priestes Scribes and Phariseis confesse themselues vanquished by Christe and his Apostles Were thei therefore not vanquished for that thei would not graunte it I would aske againe of M. Dorman what one heretike of so many can he recken ouerthrowen but by the scriptures But whereas M. Dorman hath been continually harpyng vpon this stryng against the scriptures labouryng to bryng vs from them to the Pope and his churche as he still holdeth on so to dooe leaste I should at euery occasion by him offered with tediousnesse repeate the same thynges againe I remitte the reader to the. 68. leafe of this booke before where and in the processe folowyng it is at large declared that if we doubt whether we be Christians or no we must be resolued by the scriptures if wee doubte whether we bee in the true faithe or no we muste resorte to the Scriptures if wee doubte whiche is the true Churche and whether we bee in the same or no we muste bee certified by the scriptures and that suche as seeke other meanes to bee resolued of these and suche like doubtes otherwise thā by the scriptures shal be deceiued and perishe Where also is declared that neither the Pope nor Popishe Churche can be conuenient and competent iudges in controuersies now risen for that thei are both parties and parties accused therein no more then the Iewishe high priest with his churche of Scribes and Phariseis were conuenient and competent iudges in the controuersies betweene them and Christes Apostles for that the saied high Prieste Scribes and Phariseis were parties yea and parties accused and guiltie too of the death of Christ about whom was all the controuersie betwene them and therefore were thei moste vnméete to bee iudges thereof Touchyng the conference of the scriptures together I did so late before at large intreate thereof that I néede not now to repete the same again And thus muche to M. Dormans question Now if M. Dorman haue brought in this example of the Arrians to bryng vs in suspition with the simple people as fauouryng the Arrians all learned and godlie can cléer● vs who dooe knowe how muche wee dooe abhorre the Arrians heresies and how earnestlie in our sermons writynges wee dooe oppugne them yea Hosius your chief champion shall answere for vs who dooeth muche praise our writynges and dooynges too againste the Arrians Dorman Fol. 13. In the exposition and right vnderstandyng of these fewe woordes Hoc est corpus meum this is my bodie how happeneth it that the Caluinistes and the Lutheranes agree not by conferryng one place of the Scripture with an other if that bee so readie a waie Dooeth not Caluine with all his teache vs that the sense and true interpretation of these woordes muste needes be atteined by the conference of one place of Scripture with an other And to that ende dooe thei not fondlie allege saincte Paule callyng Christe a rocke yea Christe callyng hymself a vine when he was in deede neither the one nor the other but by a similitude As though because th'Apostle or Christ hymself vseth a figure in one place wee muste thinke that in all other he neuer spake otherwise By whiche abominable doctrine what letteth if a manne would bee so wicked to affirme that Christe the sonne of God and seconde persone in Trinitie were not the true and naturall sonne of God but by adoptiō onely and for that wicked heresie to bryng this texte Dedit eis potestatem filios dei fieri he gaue them power to be made the sonnes of God VVhiche wordes wee knowe beyng spoken by vs menne muste bee vnderstande by grace and adoption and frowardlie to mainteine that all the places whiche any good manne can bryng for the defence of the contrarie should bee drawen to this texte alleged by them and expounded and vnderstanded thereby Nowell This is M. Dormans vsage when he can saie nothyng of the presente case to intermingle foraine matters thereby to auert the readers minde from his principall cause remainyng vnprooued

ecclesiastical thinges and causes ouer the same vvhiche hovv so euer they please themselues vvith fine fetches and coloured deuises is vvith the other title in effect al one if this reason of theirs vvere good Christ is head of the churche therefore there is no other head therof vnder him And hovve vvas king Henry then If they saye that their meaning is that no man can because Christ is head of the vniuersall churche be vnder him head of the vvhole but may vvell be of some particuler churche as king Henry vvas and the Quenes maiestie novve is Then demaunde of them vvhat reason they haue to leade them to say that a particuler membre of the churche as the churche of Englande can bee no more maie haue an other head beside Christe and the whole bodie maie not and whye one member maie haue twoo heades more then one bodie Nowell Now after his long digressions and declamations against the Suenkfeldians against the Arrians and Anabaptistes and against the conferēce of scriptures the manne remembryng hymself retourneth sodainlie to his matter by a question And in deede he taketh on with his Herotemata and other rollyng Rhetoricall figures exceadynglie now that he draweth towarde a conclusion Flie those sticke to those saieth M. Dorman Shrinke not from those Tell those you are at a poincte with them Saie to them as saincte Hierome saied Tell them bouldlie with sainct Augustine Aske of them with what face then demaunde of them againe with what reason with many other Rhetoricall floures wherewith he hath geuen a faire floorishe to his finall conclusion Magno conatu magnas nugas agens as thei saie makyng greate adooe aboute greate trifles as I doubte not but all wise menne will iudge Aske of them saieth maister Dorman with what face thei could call Kyng Henrie the eight so many yeres supreame heade of the Churche of Englande c. As though the man had so proued the contrarie that none durste shewe his face to gainesaie hym whereas all he hath saied is not woorthe one rushe Aske of them ꝙ he with what face Naie aske of your forsworne fathers the old Papistes for some of them are yet liuyng who gaue hym that title firste with what face thei did geue it hym did sweare it to hym and so long tyme cōtinued so callyng hym if thei did not so thinke as thei saied and had sworne but dissembled deepelie aske of them with what face thei plaied so false dissemblyng hypocrites to saie but soberlie with so noble a prince their soueraigne Lorde Aske of them what maner of subiectes thei were all that while feignyng in face in countenaunce in woorde and writyng also yea and takyng a solemne othe to be with their prince therein and beyng in harte and déede on the Pope his sworne enemie his side Whiche passeth hauyng of twoo faces vnder one hoode But if thei thought in deede as thei pretended in woordes then aske of thē with what face thei did chaunge their copie forsweare the same and themselues with all so easilie afterwarde yea and compelled al other to be forsworne with them for companie If it will please you to resorte to the recordes of the .xxij. and .xxiiij. yeres of king Henry the eight there shall you finde who thei were that first offered this title to the saied kyng there shall you finde that all Abbottes and other religious all the Bishops Deanes Archedeacons and Cleargie of bothe the houses of the Conuocation then liuyng gaue hym that title Emōgest whom if you finde one protestante I can for hym finde one score of papistes to speake with the least and peraduenture one hundreth too And those protestantes who gaue hym that title dealed simplie and plainly with their Prince as becomed true subiectes as the sequele declared But there shall you finde an huge number of Papistes who by their writyng not onelie saiyng by their othe not woorde onely reiected all that false vsurped supremacie of the Pope whiche you and thei as many of them as yet bee liuyng without all face or with a shamelesse face dooe now maintaine there shall you finde who gaue to Kyng Henrie the supremacie ouer the cleargie as well as the laitie within his owne dominions there shall you finde who thei were that so falsely dissembled and that so many yeres together with their soueraigne lorde There shall you finde who thei were that chaunged their copie and turned with the wind as the wethercocke there shall you finde who thei were that so falsely sware resware triesware forsware themselues and not content therewith did so cruelly by all moste terrible tormentes and dreadfull deathes compell others to periurie with thē S●ing therefore thus standeth the case with what face soeuer M. Dorman moueth suche demaundes and vexeth vs with suche leude questions to bee enquired otherwhere surelie he dooeth it without all forehead or shamefastnesse Now to the matter by what right wée geue the Quéenes maiestie the title of the supreme gouernour in Ecclesiasticall matters as well as temporall and with what face we so call her is to be answered in the second parte of M. Dormans diuision where he affirmeth that priestes onely and not princes ought to haue the gouernemēt of the churche wherin I doubt nothyng to aduouche and that shortly the princes due authoritie in the churche of God within their own dominions with better face authoritie reason and conscience then you haue dooen or shalbée able to dooe in the mainteinaunce of the Popes foraine false vsurped supremacie Where M. Dorman requireth a reason why a particuler church maie haue one head gouernor vnder Christ in earth and the whole church maie not why one member maie and the whole bodie maie not haue any head I truste the reason is not to seeke in the good readers memorie seyng it hath been so ofte declared before Yet will I answere M. Dormā his question by an other questiō Why maie one kingdom haue one head in earth vnder God as daily experiēce teacheth the whole worlde can not haue one onely head in earth vnder God that Monarchie being reserued to himself alone and why in this case the member maie haue an earthly heade besides God and the whole bodie maie not If M. Dorman saie the questions bee not like I aske with what face he can so saie seing that in the beginnyng of this his treatie he brought the example of ciuill gouernemente in the whiche euery kyngdome hath his Kyng euery countrey citie and companie haue their seuerall gouernours c. to prooue that the churche ought likewise to haue one head But I wotte what maister Dorman and other Papistes would saie to my question if the tymes serued them Thei would quickelie aunswere that the whole worlde hath and ought to haue one onely head in earth vnder God and therefore the Churche in like wise oughte to haue one onely head in earth vnder Christe And if thei were demaunded who is or should be that